@Mik Wri It wasn't banned in 2008. It was just discontinued, when the only refinery that made it shut down production. Most MAPP substitutes are just propylene.
ummmm ya just so you know the hot spot for a propane/oxy flame is about 1.5 inches farther away from the torch head. The operator on the right using propane is doing it all wrong.
In the real world there is almost no difference. For me the ease of getting the propane compared to acetylene makes it a no brainier! As a bonus the almost empty gas cylinders can be emptied heating the workshop in the cold! Get every little bit of gas out of them!
Personally having used both and dont really do any gas welding I MUCH prefer the LPG for cutting and heating (rosebud) stuff. If I was doing alot of gas welding yeah the acetylene is worth while but I dont.
Propane is not as hot but has more BTUs of heat per volume than acetylene. Therefore propane is superior to acetylene for heating. Inferior for cutting but the differences between cutting and heating are probably negligible between the two processes. Now propane wins by far in safety and cost. Not to mention I can also use my propane tankto run my gas forge as well. And my massive 100 lb propane tank cost one third the price of purchasing another high pressure tank for acetylene. Only cost $80 to fill my propane tank right down the road.
I'm a fire safety officer in Hampshire and our advice to change will be based on the risk to life and then business continuity for the business.If you have an acetylene cylinder in the building the fire service will not put fire fighters at risk if the building is empty, so will stand outside (attempting to get water on the cylinder) but ultimately stand back some 200-400 meters waiting for it to go bang, having seen the results of an acetylene cylinder going bang in my 27 years in the service, I can categorically say that employees will not be back at work the next day as it will have taken part of the building down. LPG causes far less damage to a building due to different flammability limits, acetylene being far more volatile.I don't have any issues with acetylene as long as people are trained in its use, the company has looked into DSEAR (HSE website) and for best results pipe the gas into the building or can evacuate the cylinders if the fire alarm sounds, (stored at night outside in a cage) Quite often people only use it for heating and are not aware that there are alternatives like oxy-propane its mainly down to poor fire risk assessments.I liked the video showing that reducing the risk for just a few seconds when cutting is worth the change for cutting as well as heating
And with good reason. A friend mentioned the Fire Brigade did not enter his factory as magnesium material was present as well water and fire. The building fell. Edit- wasnt a tall building
I store all my flammable gas cylinders outdoors for safety reasons. A business needing cutting can use plasma and there is an arc welding process for joining most metals. Inert shielding gas doesn't contribute to fires. Torches are fine for cutting scrap but that's typically an outdoor process. For some parts electrical induction heating is an option. It's quite nice to use for annealing bar stock prior to machining. Typical in-shop torch cuts require mechanical finishing anyway so a process change to mechanical, waterjet or laser cutting can yield better results and increased profit. My bud who owns a machine shop doesn't bother with those processes because he can outsource laser cutting with no capital investment, then when the parts arrive they're off to the powder coaters. The less work you do in-house the fewer workers you need. When your workers are skilled machinists it's a waste of time and money to have them running a torch,
Ob Fuscated A few things here. First off, unless you pony up for a high dollar plasma, you ain't cutting thick material, and you certainly won't do any better than a properly set up torch. Yes, you can arc weld anything a torch can weld, but the torch excels at brazing and braze welding. Braze welding is my go-to repair for cast iron unless a color match is required. There are also some welding applications where the torch is better than an arc welding process. Most folks these days have either forgotten that, or more likely never learned due to the foolish idea a few decades back that oxy-acetylene welding was no longer needed. The pipe welding industry is one that definitely regrets the fact that fewer and fewer guys know how to properly cut, weld, and gouge with a torch. Induction heating? Unless you have a large volume product needing that particular process, it is hard to justify the cash outlay for such a specialized piece of equipment for most shops. "Typical" in shop torch cuts only require finishing when the person using the torch has no idea what they are doing, and/or are using a bad nozzle. Like I said above, a good torch cut will rival a plasma cut, and they cost less and are much more versatile. Laser and water jet are fine for production runs, but even then CNC flame or plasma are cheaper and can often give perfectly fine results, depending on your needs. For onesy-twoseys, particularly on thicker steel, the torch makes good economic sense, and you don't have to wait for turn-around. Check this video out. This is a bevel cut on thicker steel with a track torch. Note the finish. Then keep watching as he makes the same bevel cut by hand. ruclips.net/video/vEWSpJ3oJa0/видео.htmlm28s
you think propane is not as explosive a power as acyt? have you heard about the big explosion we had in toronto several years back at a propane filling station? it looked like several atomic bombs went off and blew everything in sight with 100 mt radius,,there was nothing left of the plant or the poor fellow that died,they could not find shreds of him
@@ARCSTREAMS Acetylene is more energetic per cu. ft. vs propane, and has much wider flammability limits. OTOH, for a given physical size a propane cylinder holds MUCH more fuel than an acetylene cylinder, so the overall available energy is much higher. I have both on my cart, propane for heating, acetylene for welding and brazing, and for cutting the one I use depends on material thickness and cut quality needed. Propylene is superior to propane for cutting and some heating tasks, but it costs more. Also, certain heating tasks, such as flame hardeneing, work better with acetylene, and flame carburizing requires acetylene (propylene may work as well).
Even though you took a lot longer than needed on your preheat with the propane it still cut faster... Per your own test, acetylene started the cut 13 sec in, propane started at 35 sec. Acetylene finished the cut at 1 min 20 sec, propane at 1 min 35 sec. All told, actual cutting speed for the acetylene was 1 min 7 sec, propane was 1 min flat... Acetylene is definitely better in some applications, but this test was either intentionally or accidentally skewed.
For the plate thickness shown the best method would be plasma cutting. Plasma pays off very quickly in industrial use and nowadays plasma is affordaable for many hobbyists.
Sure plasma is great but it's incredibly polluting! (Not safe for your lungs and skin unless you employ proper fumes evacuation system, which is expensive too)
@@manuelpenaruiz3694 I'm super paranoid about doing any work in my garage, I almost always wear a respirator. The arc is only polluting in the sense of UVC rays, otherwise it's just steel and hot air just like the torch.
I don't really understand why you pre-heating the element for that long, i'm working as an oxi-propane cnc mechanic and i only have to pre-heat the element for 10-15 seconds, and the element is 20-40mm thick
Propane is much cheaper, more available, and cleaner than acetylene. Acetylene is hotter and can weld platinum, it's more precise, and is meant for gas welding.
@Mik Wri "You can actually, just not too well" nope you cant weld with oxy prop not even not too well,,it instantly creates porosity and brittleness that you can break with your hands easily,, Chemtane2??never heard of it but i heard of Magnegas but not sure how well it does for welding,,i will be joyed when they create an alternative gas to ace that i can buy in the hardware store like a small cyl of propane or map/pro ,unfortunately nothing on the market like that ,all you can do with those is heat,solder ,braze and cut,,not weld unless you mean weld non ferrous metals like copper or Al,,but never seen this done or really characterize this as welding
is there like a certain propane you need? I have a regular amerigas propane and my torch backfires like crazy so I can't even attempt to correct it. It's a brand new setup and I decided to switch to propane instead of acetylene. Journeyman 350 with propane cutting tip number 2. propane set at 5 - 10 psi (as I tried different pressures) and oxygen set at 35 - 40 psi. oxygen is in silver 80 cf cylinder and propane is 20lb cylinder. I'm using 25ft hose rated all gases. No leaks, No cracks. someone help me out here as I can't find anything about this.
Not true. Acetylene is slightly faster than propane as it can keep burning the metal at a higher rate. This is a fact. I've seen modern propane systems that aim to match acetylene speed at the expense of more fuel (and O2 of course)
If it was for scrapyard cutting and for cutting of metals in demolition work, then for economy and safety purposes, oxy-propane cutting would be my choice. For higher quality cuts i.e manufactured metal products then for speed and convenience, it would be oxy-acetylene all the way.
Acetylene is a dangerous gas if used inside as i have got headaches when not using a fan for ventilation, after using LPG for the first time for cutting i found it does the job extremely well, only lesson is to set it up the gauges with correct pressure and get a nice star pattern on the plate with the flame
There are too many factors to label one better than the other. For every pro there is a con from the other, Same with plasma cutter vs Oxy. If one is cutting aluminum or stainless oxy wont work. Just be thankful you have variety as opposed to claiming "your" way is better. Im talking about the comment section.
@@aaronstately but acetylene is faster for cutting speeds and is quicker to preheat the area before you make the cut, propane needs a little longer to preheat before you can start cutting through the metal.
@@anthonyperkins7556 from my understanding thats not true, overall temp is higher in Acetylene, but only right in the centre of the flame.. like the 10% in the middle.. a smaller area, while LPG is hotter over more of the flame area and most of the heat is deleivered to the outside of the flame shape.. thats why angle and distance is diffrent for cutting with LPG... yet with heating it can be quicker... its also cheaper and safer.
In a fire Ace is better as the bottles are full.. I cut up tons of bottles and as the old one had like a clay? And new ones have carbon? There is no room for them to pop? In a fire the tops melt out and they go up like a Roman candle..propane is a killer! seen a bottle take off two 5! ton press and shear doors.
@@lajoswinkler Bob Boyce™ trademarked the name "Hydroxy Gas™" a higher quality form of H2O gas, capturing (-)non-hertzian energy to maek the gas 4x to 10x more powerful. Look up "Hydroxy Gas"
There's a trick to starting a cut on heavy plate ,take a coping chisel and raise a burr . The burr will start burning almost immediately, also unlike that guy start on the edge!! He's wasting material and time!
Completely incorrect oxy propane has been proved to have a higher heat transfer than oxy acetylene but yes acetylene alone vs propane alone acetylene has a higher heat transfewr
Yes, but propane requires way more oxygen to burn completely compared to acetylene. Propane has more thermal power but lower flame temperature in the inner cone. Acetylene, burns hotter and this alone gives acetylene an edge here. When compared to our hydrogen flames, both propane and acetylene fall short on speed and cut quality. Did I mention our flame is 70% cheaper to operate per hour vs acetylene?
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Hey mate you left one tiny fact, at least here in the US anyway, propane is 800% cheaper.
Yes, this "tiny" thing is the reason we use propane. Plus the diference in time was only 16 seconds.
And the fact you can get propane the 365 days
less than 14 actually
but how can you weld with propane? seems impossible less you are using some kind of coated rods and it does not look pretty
@Mik Wri It wasn't banned in 2008. It was just discontinued, when the only refinery that made it shut down production. Most MAPP substitutes are just propylene.
ummmm ya just so you know the hot spot for a propane/oxy flame is about 1.5 inches farther away from the torch head. The operator on the right using propane is doing it all wrong.
In the real world there is almost no difference. For me the ease of getting the propane compared to acetylene makes it a no brainier! As a bonus the almost empty gas cylinders can be emptied heating the workshop in the cold! Get every little bit of gas out of them!
And lpg is much cheaper!
Personally having used both and dont really do any gas welding I MUCH prefer the LPG for cutting and heating (rosebud) stuff.
If I was doing alot of gas welding yeah the acetylene is worth while but I dont.
Hank's Twin Brother: I sell Acetylene and Acetylene accessories.
😂
Propane is not as hot but has more BTUs of heat per volume than acetylene. Therefore propane is superior to acetylene for heating. Inferior for cutting but the differences between cutting and heating are probably negligible between the two processes. Now propane wins by far in safety and cost. Not to mention I can also use my propane tankto run my gas forge as well. And my massive 100 lb propane tank cost one third the price of purchasing another high pressure tank for acetylene. Only cost $80 to fill my propane tank right down the road.
I'm a fire safety officer in Hampshire and our advice to change will be based on the risk to life and then business continuity for the business.If you have an acetylene cylinder in the building the fire service will not put fire fighters at risk if the building is empty, so will stand outside (attempting to get water on the cylinder) but ultimately stand back some 200-400 meters waiting for it to go bang, having seen the results of an acetylene cylinder going bang in my 27 years in the service, I can categorically say that employees will not be back at work the next day as it will have taken part of the building down. LPG causes far less damage to a building due to different flammability limits, acetylene being far more volatile.I don't have any issues with acetylene as long as people are trained in its use, the company has looked into DSEAR (HSE website) and for best results pipe the gas into the building or can evacuate the cylinders if the fire alarm sounds, (stored at night outside in a cage) Quite often people only use it for heating and are not aware that there are alternatives like oxy-propane its mainly down to poor fire risk assessments.I liked the video showing that reducing the risk for just a few seconds when cutting is worth the change for cutting as well as heating
And with good reason. A friend mentioned the Fire Brigade did not enter his factory as magnesium material was present as well water and fire. The building fell.
Edit- wasnt a tall building
I store all my flammable gas cylinders outdoors for safety reasons. A business needing cutting can use plasma and there is an arc welding process for joining most metals. Inert shielding gas doesn't contribute to fires. Torches are fine for cutting scrap but that's typically an outdoor process. For some parts electrical induction heating is an option. It's quite nice to use for annealing bar stock prior to machining. Typical in-shop torch cuts require mechanical finishing anyway so a process change to mechanical, waterjet or laser cutting can yield better results and increased profit. My bud who owns a machine shop doesn't bother with those processes because he can outsource laser cutting with no capital investment, then when the parts arrive they're off to the powder coaters. The less work you do in-house the fewer workers you need. When your workers are skilled machinists it's a waste of time and money to have them running a torch,
Ob Fuscated A few things here. First off, unless you pony up for a high dollar plasma, you ain't cutting thick material, and you certainly won't do any better than a properly set up torch.
Yes, you can arc weld anything a torch can weld, but the torch excels at brazing and braze welding. Braze welding is my go-to repair for cast iron unless a color match is required. There are also some welding applications where the torch is better than an arc welding process. Most folks these days have either forgotten that, or more likely never learned due to the foolish idea a few decades back that oxy-acetylene welding was no longer needed. The pipe welding industry is one that definitely regrets the fact that fewer and fewer guys know how to properly cut, weld, and gouge with a torch.
Induction heating? Unless you have a large volume product needing that particular process, it is hard to justify the cash outlay for such a specialized piece of equipment for most shops.
"Typical" in shop torch cuts only require finishing when the person using the torch has no idea what they are doing, and/or are using a bad nozzle. Like I said above, a good torch cut will rival a plasma cut, and they cost less and are much more versatile. Laser and water jet are fine for production runs, but even then CNC flame or plasma are cheaper and can often give perfectly fine results, depending on your needs. For onesy-twoseys, particularly on thicker steel, the torch makes good economic sense, and you don't have to wait for turn-around.
Check this video out. This is a bevel cut on thicker steel with a track torch. Note the finish. Then keep watching as he makes the same bevel cut by hand.
ruclips.net/video/vEWSpJ3oJa0/видео.htmlm28s
you think propane is not as explosive a power as acyt? have you heard about the big explosion we had in toronto several years back at a propane filling station? it looked like several atomic bombs went off and blew everything in sight with 100 mt radius,,there was nothing left of the plant or the poor fellow that died,they could not find shreds of him
@@ARCSTREAMS Acetylene is more energetic per cu. ft. vs propane, and has much wider flammability limits. OTOH, for a given physical size a propane cylinder holds MUCH more fuel than an acetylene cylinder, so the overall available energy is much higher. I have both on my cart, propane for heating, acetylene for welding and brazing, and for cutting the one I use depends on material thickness and cut quality needed. Propylene is superior to propane for cutting and some heating tasks, but it costs more. Also, certain heating tasks, such as flame hardeneing, work better with acetylene, and flame carburizing requires acetylene (propylene may work as well).
Even though you took a lot longer than needed on your preheat with the propane it still cut faster... Per your own test, acetylene started the cut 13 sec in, propane started at 35 sec. Acetylene finished the cut at 1 min 20 sec, propane at 1 min 35 sec. All told, actual cutting speed for the acetylene was 1 min 7 sec, propane was 1 min flat... Acetylene is definitely better in some applications, but this test was either intentionally or accidentally skewed.
In terms of safety, propane is safest. Acetone in the acetylene is the problem if untrained in its handling. Propane is less volatile.
Can't weld with propane
@@inscruitablefilletknifesha2681 I don't think that is a big enough downside to matter, unless you don't have a welding machine
@@matthewrabel5035 Small acetylene cylinders have too low a volume for anything except short cutting jobs.
@@marynollaig4124 keyword: small
@@inscruitablefilletknifesha2681 true. But we have the technology to weld with hydrogen, which is safer, faster and 100% clean
The lpg nozzle was to close by the looks of it. With lpg to preheat you need to increase the gap and then close it just as your about to pierce
The propane was 22 seconds slower to start cutting but was only 14 seconds slower in total. Why is that then?
Getting the metal up to temp to penetrate is harder than cutting.
014Chevy - Apparently.
For the plate thickness shown the best method would be plasma cutting. Plasma pays off very quickly in industrial use and nowadays plasma is affordaable for many hobbyists.
Ob Fuscated for strictly cutting, yes, but too often you also have to heat things up.
Sure plasma is great but it's incredibly polluting! (Not safe for your lungs and skin unless you employ proper fumes evacuation system, which is expensive too)
@@manuelpenaruiz3694 I'm super paranoid about doing any work in my garage, I almost always wear a respirator. The arc is only polluting in the sense of UVC rays, otherwise it's just steel and hot air just like the torch.
I don't really understand why you pre-heating the element for that long, i'm working as an oxi-propane cnc mechanic and i only have to pre-heat the element for 10-15 seconds, and the element is 20-40mm thick
You are pro man...
There’s a 10 second difference in the example for time, a $300 difference in price in the end
Propane is much cheaper, more available, and cleaner than acetylene. Acetylene is hotter and can weld platinum, it's more precise, and is meant for gas welding.
This answered my question. Thank you very much
acetylene. It burns much hotter and its better for brazing.
ok this answered all my questions thanks
acetylene is still the best for welding brazing and cutting because u cant weld with oxy propane
@Mik Wri
"You can actually, just not too well" nope you cant weld with oxy prop not even not too well,,it instantly creates porosity and brittleness that you can break with your hands easily,,
Chemtane2??never heard of it but i heard of Magnegas but not sure how well it does for welding,,i will be joyed when they create an alternative gas to ace that i can buy in the hardware store like a small cyl of propane or map/pro ,unfortunately nothing on the market like that ,all you can do with those is heat,solder ,braze and cut,,not weld unless you mean weld non ferrous metals like copper or Al,,but never seen this done or really characterize this as welding
And that's why you use a tig welder
@@samnottheotherone4363 But only if a source of electricity is available to power the tig welder!
True,propane is too cool to weld but is better suited to cutting heating and scarfing.
is there like a certain propane you need? I have a regular amerigas propane and my torch backfires like crazy so I can't even attempt to correct it. It's a brand new setup and I decided to switch to propane instead of acetylene. Journeyman 350 with propane cutting tip number 2. propane set at 5 - 10 psi (as I tried different pressures) and oxygen set at 35 - 40 psi. oxygen is in silver 80 cf cylinder and propane is 20lb cylinder. I'm using 25ft hose rated all gases. No leaks, No cracks.
someone help me out here as I can't find anything about this.
Any brand of propane cylinder should suffice for oxy-propane cutting, but you're best off using larger cylinders for this sort of work.
Once you start cutting , there is no difference in speed, chause o2 is doing the cutting not the fuel gas
...
Not true. Acetylene is slightly faster than propane as it can keep burning the metal at a higher rate. This is a fact. I've seen modern propane systems that aim to match acetylene speed at the expense of more fuel (and O2 of course)
If it was for scrapyard cutting and for cutting of metals in demolition work, then for economy and safety purposes, oxy-propane cutting would be my choice.
For higher quality cuts i.e manufactured metal products then for speed and convenience, it would be oxy-acetylene all the way.
Acetylene is a dangerous gas if used inside as i have got headaches when not using a fan for ventilation, after using LPG for the first time for cutting i found it does the job extremely well, only lesson is to set it up the gauges with correct pressure and get a nice star pattern on the plate with the flame
It's not dangerous to use inside any more than LPG.
Propane is slower for cutting speeds and uses more oxygen
anthony perkins slower, but not by much and oxygen is way cheaper than acetelyene.
book dont know about your area, but here oxy is $15 for 250cuf bottle and acetelyene is $75 for a short bottle.
Why the high viz? H&S gone mad.
Hi Viz clothing can melt with flying sparks from the cutting process
I thought that was 2 different clips the entire video then saw the propane sparks and was like wait what
both fine..it is the matter of skills
Hemat mana acetylene dari propane ?
There are too many factors to label one better than the other. For every pro there is a con from the other, Same with plasma cutter vs Oxy. If one is cutting aluminum or stainless oxy wont work. Just be thankful you have variety as opposed to claiming "your" way is better. Im talking about the comment section.
Propane is alot better cost wise for cutting it's the way to go if your still stuck in the old days welding with a torch than acetylene is your pick
what about mapp gas?
If you can find it
Acetylene gives a much hotter flame
in the centre it does, on the outside LPG is hotter.
@@aaronstately but acetylene is faster for cutting speeds and is quicker to preheat the area before you make the cut, propane needs a little longer to preheat before you can start cutting through the metal.
@@anthonyperkins7556 from my understanding thats not true, overall temp is higher in Acetylene, but only right in the centre of the flame.. like the 10% in the middle.. a smaller area, while LPG is hotter over more of the flame area and most of the heat is deleivered to the outside of the flame shape.. thats why angle and distance is diffrent for cutting with LPG... yet with heating it can be quicker... its also cheaper and safer.
In a fire Ace is better as the bottles are full.. I cut up tons of bottles and as the old one had like a clay? And new ones have carbon? There is no room for them to pop? In a fire the tops melt out and they go up like a Roman candle..propane is a killer! seen a bottle take off two 5! ton press and shear doors.
Propane is soooooooo much cheaper though. Yes it doesn't cut as fast but the price difference to save 10 seconds isn't really worth it
Today we got HHO and oxygen cutting steel units. Look up Epoch HHO. Another option.
"HHO" is crackpot terminology. The proper term is "oxyhydrogen".
@@lajoswinkler Bob Boyce™ trademarked the name "Hydroxy Gas™" a higher quality form of H2O gas, capturing (-)non-hertzian energy to maek the gas 4x to 10x more powerful. Look up "Hydroxy Gas"
There's a trick to starting a cut on heavy plate ,take a coping chisel and raise a burr . The burr will start burning almost immediately, also unlike that guy start on the edge!! He's wasting material and time!
Tysm sir
Oxygen propane Forever 💶💴💵
Oxyhydrogen is much better, much safer, way cleaner, faster and CHEAPER to run per hour than acetylene or propane. More info, just let me know.
More info please
@@samuelherman6230 gerencia@aphytech.com We are happy to answer all your questions
You can't weld steel with oxyhydrogen. It can be used to weld gold and platinum, but not steel. Hot water vapor is highly oxidizing to steel.
Completely incorrect oxy propane has been proved to have a higher heat transfer than oxy acetylene but yes acetylene alone vs propane alone acetylene has a higher heat transfewr
Yes, but propane requires way more oxygen to burn completely compared to acetylene. Propane has more thermal power but lower flame temperature in the inner cone. Acetylene, burns hotter and this alone gives acetylene an edge here. When compared to our hydrogen flames, both propane and acetylene fall short on speed and cut quality. Did I mention our flame is 70% cheaper to operate per hour vs acetylene?
Zapraszam jeśli ktoś potrzebuje Palni gazowy do spawania ciecia grzania lutowania
Tlen ,acetylen , propan
Doradzę jaki palnik wybrać na jakie butle
Więcej na e-sklep www.palnikigazowe.eu
I was cutting with Acetylene and Propane, much better propane, Acetylene was too hot for me...
Propaganda
This is bull shit, I worked in a shipyard and we used propane, I would have cut that plate in no time!