Is Kirby's Hammer Actually Useful? In Depth Look and Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- After the success of my video on Kirby's down air, I realized that Hammer is a move that is often slept on, and while it may not be the best move in the game, it has a ton of uses that many players may not know about. When used correctly, it can be a low risk high reward option that can net an early kill.
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I go over the uses for the move around 3:30 if you want to skip ahead to there, but I felt that I needed to give some context behind the motivation for the video!
Also in star allies you can actually jump with the hammer (idk if you knew this or not but I wanted to say just cause).
3:30 ugh you he said nothing about shield break punishes, he said it wasn't good for shield breaks and that was it.
Oh kept on watching and saw you shield break with side b lol
I'm not sure if you'll read this comment but dont worry about deconstructing esam. esam is not a kirby main. he doesnt know the character. just because he is a good player doesnt mean he knows everything. ZeRo had this mentality hard, saying stuff like "hey guys I was the best in smash 4 so heres a guide for Sonic, a character I dont play, in ultimate, a completely different game than smash 4" and people eat it up because "DURR PRO PLAYER"
good video and good insight
Is there super armor in the air using hammer
No excuses its no brawl side b that was the main reason its getting so much flak
Best use of Kirby's Hammer: Damaging yourself to avoid Luigi 0 to death
Oh yeah it’s big brain time
Oh true lol
Like how much % would you need? 🤔
@Julio Negron-Yslas he can still do death combos from 15-20, heavier characters at 30, but a tech situation at 30-35 instead
As a Luigi main I agree
I was playing against my cousin who is a pro so I hid in a corner and charged up the hammer while my brother was getting it and when he came for me he jumped out of the ring because we were doing that one map and I jumped up and released the hammer and he died
If uncharged hammer propelled Kirby slightly forward like in brawl it would be so much more useful
And if it were frame 15/16. Brawl aerial hammer was so good for recovery and edge guarding, bring it back! 😢
Holy shit i forgot abu that
I miss the brawl days
@@djdrizzy9139 brawl hammer also felt like it slowed Kirby fall. Or it's just me.
@@SKsuprakirby It stalled Kirby's horizontal momentum, like Mario's cape. It helped with recovery.
Yeah i would take 18 damage but powerful knockback then
A chargeable stronger attack you probably wont hit
If you get both hits its 35 damage but due to knockback you rarely get both hits in
Honestly shorthop into air hammer would be pretty good if it was brawls air hammer
It’s worth practicing with IMO, because the fact that it’s one of Kirby’s worst/slowest moves just makes it that much more satisfying when you nail somebody in the face with it.
Landed the final killing blow on an elite smash Steve with it and it was literally a misinput 😂
Too op
Flashbacks to that one reply thread where we were having an entire argument about hammer being good or bad
It's definitely bad, but not unusable like most people think. Kirby may evolve if people start to better understand utilize it, which really goes to show how far we may be until Kirby is fully optimized.
“And kirby’s hammer being underrated”
Laughs in mainline Kirby base dps meta, Kirby fighters, bonkers, and Kirby clash
Charged Hammer goes 100k dmg LUL
In KF2 Hammer is broken, and not in the good sense, literally the copy hability is bad, but usable
Also, *haha hammer goes brrrrrrrrrrrr* **defeats a boss in 6 seconds in the True Arena**
I don’t think you were harsh at esam at all! You just took his comments and used them as a really good framework to debunk misconceptions. Great stuff! I wanna see jeja do this kinda stuff more lol
As a Kirby secondary main, I feel bad that I underestimated this move
I underestimsted myself
Judging almost impossible to do some good stuff with it
Or maybe I'm right
I can't
Same for me, I co-main Kirby and Mario
Im a Kirby main and I used to use it all the time I thought it was so cool.
But eventually I used it less and less to the point where I don't really use it at all.
My sister is not a Kirby main but the rare times she does play as him (or 'it' if you want) she uses it a lot.
I feel like this isn't a major move in Kirby's kit, however this depends entirely depends on the game, one of my fave hammers is in ssf2 since in the air it's one of Kirby's best move to kill for arials, however ground game really sucks for hammer.
@@randompersonyoudontknow5763 sorry if its a bad question but, what is ssf2?
You have no idea how happy I am that you made this video, being the only Kirby to advocate for this moves uses constantly and even using it in bracket for singles and dubs. Not even my boy JeJa tries using it despite me having a session with him about the move. Hammer's pretty nice and I really do wish more Kirby's would take the time to trying to learn how to use it properly
I feel like people usually play too linear in general (myself included), I've only started *really* trying new things out to cover different options more recently
It's mostly cause it's committal, His Kirby makes a few hard commitments at best to not lose stage control, oddly enough he uses more dair. You can rob stocks with that move with a few good hits, while it has slightly less end lag than whiffing a hammer on top of your opponent needing to go back to ledge it gives you more time to try and save your advantage state. During ledgetrapping, he uses kirby's safer options like d-smash or cover options off ledge with Kirby's tilts to transition into more edgeguarding cheese cause it's annoyingly good, while also being very safe with little risk of the Kirby dying from going to far. I see the RUclipsr in this video whiff a Hammer flip if the player he was fighting blocked or parried his Bair he just threw away stage control and got punished for it (In case another reader shows up who didn't know) Kirby's disadvantage is pretty bad all things considered, which would explain JeJa's limited use of hammer flip. when I kept all of this in mind, on top of seeing how well dair could serve Kirby's combos. it lead me to believe it's uses were more practical than hammer filp. IMO if a move has less uses than another but the uses are more relevant in gameplay. It would be considered better. I could be wrong though, so feel free to expose me for being a clown cause I only play this character in a flash fangame :/
@@ivrydice0954 In fact, high commitment is just a trade you don't want on these kind of games. That's the reason Smash attacks are rarely used on the game unless they're broken like G&W down smash, or the character has a kill confirm into it like Fox, Pikachu or Diddy Kong.
Now, the swing is unreactable and has great kill power which is nice, but Kirby isn't precisely lacking in unreactable moves with good kill power who are safer to use, most notably Dash attack, N-air and B-air. Kirby doesn't lack on the kill power apartment, and considering how vulnerable Kirby can be on disadvantage, whiffing a unsafe move is awful.
The only real use I can see is shield pressure on platforms, so overall a bottom 4 move on Kirby alongsider D-air, Stone and Final cutter, not completely useless but a really bad move, and at least D-air is a great combo extender, not a combo starter.
Another mistake Esam made was that "it doesn't exist, literally." It doesn't exist figuratively, but it does exist literally. Look, it's right there!
Under-rated comment😂😂
Debatable
@@pedrito890 Pick Kirby, press side B and you'll see it.
@@theskull1030 oh shit you're right!
Silly Esam!
I have been _enlightened._ I love these analyses on these moves, especially when you go into the applications. I might try some of these.
I still think that Dedede’s Jet Hammer is better, but Kirby’s side B has some utility not covered by Jet Hammer.
UPDATE: Not much success with the ledge-trapping so far, but I’ve gotten some surprise double hits on people who release shield too early.
This is how I’ve been using hammer flip and in my head, I always say “this will never work” and then it does.
I love moves that have that feeling. It feels like you cheated the system or something lmao
I love kirby so much. Seeing kirby videos bring me so much joy
The uses of G&W side b is cheese
You're not wrong
Don’t forget disrespect
It also true combos out of D-Throw at certain percentages.
@@nautilus2342 Who will result in you losing a combo most of the time. Good thing you cannot get 1 or 2 when first using the move.
I honestly wonder how many people don’t know about the second swing in the air.
Hi
Same 🤔
Yeah this is cool and all, and hammer definitely isn't useless, but we shouldn't need to even have disputes like this, since brawl hammer never should have been taken away. Seriously I hate so much that we have this in replacement of a move that wasn't even all that broken.
Yeah, I miss brawl hammer
I miss that hammer. Frame 16, punishes airdodges, had better kill power and even was able to stall your momentum. But I guess we all can agree that overall Kirby has the worst set of specials, because not a single one of them can be called good.
@@N12015 His best special move is neutral B. I think his copyed specials have increased power, so yeah, it's obviously going to be his best special. If you can land it.
@@N12015 yes but remember that brawl up b was also nerfed for no reason because the projectile used to actually go more than 1 inch
glad to see people agree that Brawl Hammer is the best iteration of Kirby's Side B
4:01 made me die a little inside, even though I already knew about it. Why do the developers insist on Kirby being bad? There was literally no point in getting rid of that, same with the brawl hammer.
I freaking hate the way Kirby has been handled since Melee.
I swear, some characters the developers just hate, whether consciously or subconsciously. Ganondorf is another such character.
@@k-leb4671Fr its not fair 🫤
JeJaJeJa broke a shield recently using the dual hit of hammer! I immediately remembered your video
Covering an underrated move of an underrated (but adorable) character, I love it ❤️
Whenever I think about which move is worse, dair or hammer flip, what I like to do is think about it like this:
Which am I more scared of, a Kirby that has mastered how to use dair, or a Kirby that has mastered how to use hammer flip?
For me, it's the latter. Which is why as it is now, I think Kirby's hammer flip is better than his dair, but I can definitely see why others think otherwise.
And I completely agree with the statement that top Kirbys should probably be using hammer flip a bit more. When understood, hammer flip can absolutely steal stocks at incredibly low percents, and as long as you get in your opponent's head even a little bit, you can exploit it using hammer flip.
I'd be more scared of a Kirby who's mastered the use of every single copy ability
@@arcticjedimaster I wouldn't be scared of that Kirby if I just went Falcon or Puff lmao.
FINALLY!! as a kirby main ive been using hammer alot since forever. ive been telling people its a great move and no-one believes me until they get ledge trapped with the platform dropthrough hammer multiple times in a set
amazing video dude! so much thanks for this
I was confused when the Kirby discord said that hammer flip was better than D-air, thanks for the video!
Lol it's definitely not better.
@@randomname9723
Lol you definitely didn't watch the video.
@@exist_E lol you clearly didn't watch the video. It never said hammer was better. All scenarios he listed work only against unaware or bad players. Dair is really bad as well but it is much more consistent in usability than Hammer.
You didn’t watch the video! You didn’t watch the video!
I use this attack as a ledge trap
Still better than Egg Roll hands down.
As a Yoshi main/Kirby secondary, absolutely
And roll out
@@ShockHat734 that’s neutral b
@@markercrayon457 I know, just wanted to mention it
2:42 wait a minute that's not the real esam. Where's the green head band?
"Is Kirby's Hammer Actually Useful?"
me, a kirby main:
YES! YES!
YES!
YES! YES!
Hammer has actually been really helpful for me, thanks to this video. I’ve gotten so many ledgetraps with it. I’ve caught a lot of jumps with aerial double hit, rolls from baits, and staying on ledge from noticing the moment their invincibility runs out, moving a bit forward, and I even killed a Lucina at 20. (or was it 40? I forgot) I haven’t gotten the shield breaks, but my point is that I really underestimated this move.
Person: Kirby's hammer is useless
Me: are you saying something that take a 5th of Rathoth's health away in one hit is useless?
Been a kirby main most of my life and I allways wished he could slide forward when crouched like he could in most of kirbys games
I want to believe that every move on every characters has a situation where it is the best move in their kit. Thank you for adding a small amount of validation to this theory.
Except _maybe_ one or more of Little Mac's aerials... those ones can only be the best if its the _only_ option.
Really appreciated this video... it’s fun to see a showcase like this and i thought your explanations were good and fair
This man be singlehandedly making Kirby go up in the meta
4:17 such a satisfying shield break with the down smash
Really good video. Changed my perspective on hammer a lot.
Great video, man. Hammer is the most badass move Kirby has.
Forgot to mentioned as an edge guard tool specifically against straight line recoveries, like fox/falcon, samus, cloud, etc. Those you can be hit out of the stage, up b like Mario, bowser and all characters that have to face the stage to recover, can be hit from the back and towards the stage and force a misstech with the double swings. Slow moving recoveries like villagers, wifi fit can also be abused with good timing. For most cases forcing a low recovery and dropping off ledge facing towards it with the hammer is hard spot for all characters to be in against kirby, to some more, to some less but the risk reward is definitely in kirbys favor.
as a kirby main i think this is one of the best kill options while in the air that doesn't kill you instantly while off stage so thank you
The amount of ledge jump reads Ive gotten with dedede jet hammer (basically the same move) shows how underrated this move is.
@@wits_end. It's debatably if it's better. Kirby's hammer flip is a multihit in the air and can break shields more reliably.
I've found success in small amounts using Hammer in the ways you specified, so this checks out in my experience. Definitely going to be using Hammer more often!
You have opened my eyes, thank you for making this
My mind is blown. Thank you Juggleboy.
Others have probably commented about it already but something that wasn’t mentioned in this video is that it’s possible to hit both aerial hammer swings of the side b at 0% (or at very low percents, depending on the character and how long you charge the hammer for); in other words, you can true combo the first aerial swing of the hammer into the second swing for some great damage.
To do it you’ll have to be as close to your opponent as possible; you pull out hammer and then release it and jump forward at the same time. (The reason I originally bound a secondary button, namely my L trigger, to jump was to make doing this way less awkward on the fingers.) On some characters you’ll have to charge the hammer a bit-usually just long enough so that you jump forward and release the hammer as soon as you see flames appear. On other characters you can’t charge it at all and have to release the hammer as soon as possible in order for both swings to connect, while on a select few characters trying to get both swings to connect just isn’t possible.
But yeah, feels good to land, does a crap ton to percent, and it’s pretty stylish. Haven’t used it much at all in real games so I’m not sure of whether it’s at all optimal to go for, but it exists! Just gotta figure out matchups where maybe there are more opportune reasons to go for it, since as it stands it seems like the main reason you’d go for something like this is if you had a read on your opponent, such as on their getup option at ledge.
Let’s gooo , my clip got featured at the end !
Another great thing to utilize for the hammer, at any charge rate, is jumping. So many opponents underestimate how powerful a pink blob with a big hammer can be, as they think they’ll just stick to the ground. But just one jump can lead to a *noice* moment.
i really like your videos and these kinds are especially good because ultimate has a disapointing amount of positive analysis and ideas from someone who knows what they are talking about
and its super digestible and happy to watch, kinda like a my smash corner video :>
"Its just a worse version of a smash attack"
Yeah a smash attack that lets you jump into the air while charging, turn around, ledge trap, use as a more powerful forward air, and with the fully charged power stronger than a Warlock Punch.
Wow, I didn’t now that it could be so useful
I have a little say on jab lock hammer. At the high percents at which hammer kills you can also go for dsmash or even upsmash (depending on stage ceilling and opponent's percent) instead. also, at low percents where you'd use hammer to avoid staling fsmash you can go for dsmash as it sends in a harsh down angle to where you get an edgeguard or set up a ledge trap thx to the messed up position the dsmash sends the opponent. Imo it's at it's most practical catching jumps and during ledgetraps or platform tech chases and as a shield break punish as we all know. Anyhow thx 4 the vod. Will definitely incorporate it more to my gameplay
Yeah I didn’t see how it was a better option in those situations. Mainly just to style or even get into opponents head a little
Wow...thank you for this! I never thought Hammer was useless, but now I know how I can use it even better.
I just want to share a smash 4 experience i had when i first got a wii u for christmas. I was playing kirby and then i decided to try online duos and i got a bowser teammate. My bowser teammate grabbed a dude and then i had my hammer fully charged so when he grabbed him he just held him there and i smacked him outta there. We lost but i just wanted to share cause that was the most epic thing i ever did in smash and it's dissapointing i know but it was my first smash game so don't judge me.
Great video explaining potential uses for it. Definitely makes me see how it is decently better than I initially thought. But I still don’t see how dair is worse. It gimps so well against a good amount of the cast. It extends combos a large amount if timed well. JeJa who as far as I can tell is the most well known high level Kirby player abuses the hell out of dair. When I think of which move is worse I think of which move am I more likely to use or kill with. And both of those categories go to dair. I’m not a crazy high level player so I might be missing something. But I can’t wrap my head around how dair is worse. JeJa should definitely use Hammer more tho to be fair
This shows how many bad moves Kirby has, or at the very least underwhelming. D-air, Hammer, Stone, Final cutter, Inhale some matchups, F-air (Too slow) and N-air on disadvantage.
Smash 4 hammer (post patches) was actually a force to be reckoned with. It killed most characters from anywhere on stage at 100% or higher. This made it a great move to hard punish heavy lag moves or go for a hard read. Combined with stone's shield breaking capabilities, you could also constantly threaten your opponents, and it had a significant amount of pushback to help lessen punishes.
Another perfect example of a move that could've been slightly adjusted for the new game and would have been fine
Half charge hammer trumps Sephiroth’s Scintilla in midair. First swing breaks the shield, second swing kills. It does at least make linear recoveries painful 😈 due to the super armor at full charge...
8:58 just *so satisfying* to watch
Holding side b charging up the hammer and one shot is just busted one of my mains in wol and real smash against family/friends
This is actually very good and I'm gong to start using it more often now. Thanks!! ^_^
Finally, this is my favorite move in the game. I never slept on it and I’m so glad it’s finally getting recognition, thanks juggleboy you’re the best
Awesome video, thank you!
I think what would make Hammer a good move in neutral would be to also let it reflect projectiles like Ness's forward smash. How much you charge it determines how much the damage multiplier would be.
It has to be said that if you charge hammer (not full) and use it immediately after jump, you will hover and the swings will hit the same spot. If you delay it, you will fall during the second swing, which catches airdodges.
As someone who's secondary is Kirby, I love hammer. I always use it when dropping on slow characters from above, or on faster characters I will read where they would move to when off stage and swing in that place preemptively.
Kirbys hammer is a smash attack u can do in the air and a good option to come back from the stage especially if get hit to the blast zone cause u can charge it enough to get armor
Personally, whenever me or my brother play Smash Bros, I play as Kirby. Although I’ve moved onto Dededee now, I vividly recall getting clutch shots in with Kirby’s hammer when I least expected it to work. Nice video!
I feel like Kirby doesnt have any "bad moves" I would say hammer is the worst since it is situational. Even then, it is still a decent move for many reasons. The only bad move Kirby has would be neutral b in certain matchups(like ganondorf or falcon)
I never had thought that Kirby''s hammer was useless, I think it's really good
It’s so fun to just charge and walk around menacingly
kirby's air side-b in melee was a fun move imo
Oh wow this really made me realize some niches for side b, thanks
This is actually super useful, since I had no idea what the mechanics of the move are. It's easiest to assume a move is bad when you don't know everything about it.
Hammer is a great move to pop out when your opponent has a very narrow recovery space, or the handful of situations you can short hop it out and catch something. I SH hammered a Bowser to punish a missed down B and that was dead around high 80%s
They really just need to make uncharged Hammer act like Brawl's
great video on the topic as always! only things I disagree with is its use on platforms in general, I've never found it practical for someone to just wait for me to charge up hammer then jump at their shield and people can usually avoid such tech chase scenarios entirely. I honestly probably use the move too much since I love using bad moves/characters in games in general and do find it to be underrated by a few, but at the same time I feel a lot of people overrate it and I've never usually found twitter clips on their own to be a useful indicator of how useful something is.
overall pretty much agree though, and you sayin some fax
Hammer would be so much better if Kirby could easily land double swing on all grounded shields.
My dream change would be to make Kirby's specials more flexible, like they are in nouvou kirby games. Things like Final Cutter being able to be thrown like a Cutter Projectile instead of strictly recovery. Stone being able to be used as a rolling dash attack. Hammer should have way more flexibility, such as being able to swing directly below you in midair, do the melee hammer flip, or double swing on the ground. None of them would be particularly good but being flexible would be so great for Kirby.
Still, Hammer's one of my favorite abilities. I still pull it out in neutral just for the boldness and headgame.
Once i was fighting a Ken as Kirby, and i was offstage and he shielded to predict me using an aerial. I used Hammer and i got a shieldbreak
Same but I didnt have a ken
Frametrapping with hammer sounds really cool with all the possible options but eventually it’ll end up not being so useful with how telegraphed it is...
Hammer in the Smash saga: I can't hit well because I am so slow :(
Hammer in Kirby games: *Haha, funni hammer goes wooooshhhhh* **kills a boss in 2 single hits**
I love using Kirby's hammer as a surprise option, not on the regular unless it's for the memes
Hammer on the ground is great against counter spammers. Charge hammer, jump towards them, but don't release, they will do counter 100% of the time and leave themselve wide open for a hammer in the face.
I don’t even play Kirby anymore but I still love watching these videos
This was shockingly helpful
I always thought this move wasn't given any credit for things it could clearly do, but I never really said anything because I just assumed all these people calling it garbage just knew more than me.
very good video essay thank you
As a Kirby main in Brawl, I always used this move.
my clip in the first min is crazy thx
For the setup with hammer you showed off is it character specific of weight specific because I can't seem to get the knockdown with f tilt.
Im a Dedede main and tho the jet hammer has some differences, I can say both are surprisingly good at ledge trapping
Broh same
Jet hammer is basically just better kirby hammer
@@Noot_Penguin Kirby’s hammer is better in some categories
@@chesslo2158 Oh definitely, I just think in general jet hammer is over all a better move. It also helps that Dededes kit actually benefits the move more unlike kirby where that's not really the case
I always fully charge it for the final hit and sometimes use it as a normal atack
I SWEAR turning the hammer around *right* before using it is faster than using the hammer regularly
I wish the aerial hammer propelled him up and forward like it did for his Second Custom in Smash 4
footstool your oponent, instantly airdodge to the ground, down tilt, jab and hammer
There you go, free %
(only works around 45-50)
Falcon punch deserves a video if any single move does
Nice video , this information is god
speaking from someone who is very casual smash player, i always viewed this move as just like a mobile falcon punch sorta
Up tilt into hammer plus you have to make them scared about it
I get that hammer *can* be used as a ledge trap, but I don't think that it's kirby's best option. I'd much rather go for less committal options like empty hopping, trying to set up fair1 > fsmash or just waiting to catch their landing if they jump
Here before Esam...
I think that Kirby hammer can be comboed into. Or very nearly, as it is only one frame slower than inhale, which has true combos
Thank u very much. I can practice this stuff for my kirb. Maybe I can finally get them back to elite smash so I rlly appreciate your skills
The side B of Kirby is not useless, but hard to fit into a combo because how much time Kirby spends into draw the Hammer. I personally like it a lot and use it often, is a bad killing move.
The hammer is the ace in the hole and a trick to pull put to throw off people
Commenting for the algorithm, more people need to see this