@@rappelclub8271That may be but I like to keep it simple and know a couple of methods and systems really well and practice with the munter hitch often. The breaker bar carabiner methods look like the breaker biner could slip and lead to unpredictable behavior. Dangling on a rope, I prefer predictability. Much respect.
@@rappelclub8271 dude, that technique is forbidden in industrial climbing for exact that reason, it CAN open the gate! Little bump in the wall presses against the carabiner and... boom.
@@rappelclub8271 I bet the hownot2 guys could find a way for it to open. Regardless if it "can't" open or not you should be using a locking biner for any connection that is a single point of failure.
The one after your biner brake bar method (5:20) would cross load the biner and if the biner was to break, your rope wouldn't be attached to any part of your rap device and you'd free fall. Highly recommend not crossloading the biner.
@@rappelclub8271 Cross loading is one thing, but you are suggesting intentionally side loading them. There is no safe rating for side loading carabiners.
@@rappelclub8271the MBL for crossloading on most biners is 8kn which is 800kg. But that is the breaking load. The rated load is a tenth of that which is 80kg so it is not safe to side load biners for people.
The support + was very intuitive to me. I learnt the support way as a way to be able to rappell down fast without danger of the rope loosening too much and without danger of it turning into a girth hitch and locking you, but as soon a i learnt it i realized i could add extra safety by running the rope through the back of the small circle. Very intuitive and safe
@@Tobi-zd9zp You might be right, but I guess I was not expecting any one to use some cheap light weight biner to rappel with, unless it was an emergency
If you're rappelling correctly you never shock load the system. Side loaded carabiners can still handle 7kn (HMS, that I-Beam style is garbage for raps but still plenty strong). We use this method all day long while Canyoneering.
Thank you for sharing these various ways of setting up the figure 8 with your rope. I’ve made a small repelling set up to include uncertain backpacking trips into the woods. Better to have, and not need that not to have and find myself in a situation needing it. Cheers🎉
If you use 'canyon plus' mode but then clip the two carbiners into a third caribiner which attaches to the harness, this is good for people just learning to rappel. It puts everything in front of their line of sight (Make sure long hair is tied up!), and they are less likely to feed their hand through it! Good video, some techniques I'm going to try that I didn't know about after 42 years of climbing and teaching.
Now i have 9-10 choices more to do with my figure 8, however i have to test these mothods by myself about friction levels before use in real situation, and thank you very much for this informative video.
Good point, but I have carabiners that are rated at 22kn with the gate open and 72kn with the gate locked, I have never had a problem, I have even rappelled using nothing but a bicycle as my rappel device, I guess next you are going to tell me that it should not be allowed cause it is bicycle abuse.
No matter how strong carabiners you are using, an open carabiner could slip out of the figure 8 when you open it mid rappel. I know its unlikely as long as you have weight on it, but you are opening up to a potential accident.
A rescue 8 (with ears) is slightly larger but much more useful than a standard 8 and won't half hitch and lock you down. You can hold your position simply and easily with a hard or soft lock and release it instantly.
If you twist the bight before passing it around the small hole in canyon mode, you get an ''auto-locking'' mode, and you can pull down on the small hole that now acts as a handle for the auto-braking function. Make sure to keep a firm hand on the rope below the device because it can ''lock'' in the ''open'' position. I always advise having a back-up rope (or at the very least a fireman belay from a partner) to prevent injury, especially when experimenting with new techniques.
i suspect that none of the other experts thought of the last one because normally you'd walk up to an abseil rope and attach in to it. Who would think of de-rigging it to thread the device. You could also repeatedly thread the end through the device to create multiple wraps around the big ring of the Fig8.
Yes, but if you repeatedly wrap around the big ring of the 8, the heat build up is insane, unless you are only dropping a hundred feet or so, some of these methods generate much less heat, and can be used for drops of 300 or more feet.
helpful, yet I'm far more likely to be rappelling off 2 strands, Not 1. Many of these methods would still work, some would be convoluted. likely to use #2, 8, 9, 10 for 2 strands. Any input? Thanks
The canyoning mode (without your modification) is crazy...why anyone would rely on that is beyond me. Your mod should be considered mandatory. Well done video. Thanks
The main use for canyon mode is for short abseils into water, especially with fast moving water at the bottom. It is sometimes very dangerous to be attached to the rope in this kind of water, so it's helpful to be able to get off rope as quickly as possible. I tend to avoid using it and just set the rope length to be just under the water for quicker dissattachment.
Nice video. Forgive the observation, but "cross carabiner mode" (5:05) looks dicey as hell. The figure-8 is cross-loading the *gate* of the carabiner alone (not cross loading the entire carabiner, which would at least give you the standard 7kn rating). If that gate joint pops, the rope leaves that rig altogether and you're dropping like a rock. Most of these are really cool, but that one gives me the willies.
Actually, I have removed the gates on purpose and rappelling using this method with no gates at all on the carabiners, and if it is rigged correctly, there is no chance of the rope coming undone, unless you are trying to rappel a pair of elephants.
this happened to me once while rappelling off some bridges on the way to Key West in Florida. Luckily I was hanging over water and so just cut the rope and went swimming.
The video is very interesting, but with this format you use about one third of the available video area and some time we can not see what are you doing with the descender.
May i add the auto locking setup: bite through the large opening, twist it 180 (to the right) before attaching around the smaller hole then clip in the large opening. if you press down on the 8 so its pointing down (instead of sideways( you rappel down, if you let go it stops you, might creep a bit with wet (8,5mm in my case) rope
I was non concentrating on locking off methods or I would have included the one you mention, which I believe is called the Italian method, as well as the lock off method used with rappelling in canyon mode
I see you havent posted in roughly a year or so?! I genuinly hope none of your half cocked open your life support during descent and sketchy side loading techniques failed you my brother!!! I commend your fearlessness, creative spirit and originality! But you sir... Must have much more testicular fortitude than I with all that side loading and life support opening stuff!! Good video still!! Cheers!!!
for rappelling only I do prefer the 8, for ice climbing and rock climbing I prefer an ATC guide because it can be used both for rappelling and as an auto block for self belaying.
The reason people answer 'no' to the munter hitch question is that it goes without saying that any system should be detachable from the rope, e.g. when you reach an anchor. You can detach yourself from the 8 but you can't remove it from the rope, unless you have access to one of the ends. I'm not saying it doesn't have applications, of course, but it's a different category from all the other systems that can be attached and detached w/o accessing one of the ends. But overall it's an interesting video. People forget that climbing was a thing way before the invention of modern devices.
Hi, Thank you so much for the video this is/was Excellent information. Quick question for you, I'm just now looking into the sport and wondering if you could tell me what basics I need or should purchase to be able to ascend and rappel Thank you greatly Appreciated!
If you are just rappelling, then a descender, 5-10 carabiners, a harness, and some good hiking boots for traction while on rappel, if you are climbing, it depends, there is specific gear for rock climbing, mountain climbing, ice climbing, and for canyoning (or canyoneering). So it really depends what you are trying to learn.
sure, it is called the carabiner wrap rappel and only needs 1 D ring, or you can use 2 D rings and it is called the "french rappel" or "crossed carabiner" rappel
clip the fig 8 large hole to your belt krab. take a bight of rope and thread through the small 8 hole and clip a loose 2nd krab into that rope loop. now take your free rope into into a rope loop and pass through big fig 8 hole and connect this loop to your second crab and rotate that krab so the gate is away from your break hand now you have 2 loops across your break bar. you never had to unclip your gig 8 and ropes never passes near brake bar krab gate. liked and subbed your great vid ty.
I'm no professional, but Carabiner brake mode, the one after (and a few more after that) to me seems like a really bad idea. You're placing the majority of stress on the carabiner (the weakest part of the system). If it moves a bit, you'll be putting the majority of stress on the minor axis. Furthermore, it seems likely that it might potentially cause stress cracks after a while.. If the carabiner fails, the rope will pop out and the ground will be the only thing that stops you (there is less redundancy, and more that can go wrong).. Otherwise, good list (learning a lot)
I don't like to be the dick in the comments section but this is sketchy and you should not take this guy's advice. The techniques in this video violate many safety principles with no benefit. Point number one: it's always best to have a locking carabiner between you and death, and there's really no reason you shouldn't. Don't use a non locker as part of your system. Always tie knots in the ends of your ropes to close the system. Lastly, creativity is great and all, but setting up a rappel shouldn't be creative. It should be as consistent as possible and once you've found something that works well for you, stick with it. Do it that way every time. Only change it under special circumstances such as adding more friction when using a very thin rope or rappelling with a heavier load.
Everyone is a critic. Hang gliding is sketchy, skateboarding is sketchy, ice climbing is sketchy, and I do all those things and more. This video is not designed to force anyone to do anything, just to show what can be done.
yes, but the biggest reason we use it in canyoning situations is that we can detach from the rope without ever having to unlock the carabiner or disconnect the 8 from the carabiner
I have been using these configurations for more than 15 years, not sure what you mean. I have even used a bicycle as my only rappel device and it worked fine, all depends on what you know and have experience with.
Absolutely new to this. Fortunately, understood all the terms, and am familiarized with the items in question. I'm looking for a way of setting up a SHTF way of getting outta my appartment in case the paranoid hypocondriacs in my building keep the "public spaces" in the terrace locked, when they happen to be, in fact, escape exits as well. I believe I'm going to go with the last setup/knot, as it looked the simplest, and the activity is new to me and unfortunately, don't even have time nor the facilities to practice, being under quarantine et al. Cheers, and thanks a lot for the video, super easy to understand. Seriously. I never rapelled in my whole life and there wasn't a word I did not get. Have a nice day sir!
for some one that has never rappelled before, I would suggest the method at 7:22, it is the safest and delivers lots of friction to stay in control of the descent.
@@rappelclub8271 For someone new, you set them up standard and have a bottom guy who can yank the breaking rope. Every comment here you basically set people up to die.
Hi Rappel club . I'm looking for something that will let me let out rope that at one end is tied to the chimney and attached to me some how that will allow me to slode down the roof at a steep pitch till I reach my gutters to clean them out . Once I reach the gutters I want to stop and not be allowed to go any farther . I would like to be locked in place My hands will be in the gutters taking out leaves and putting them in a bag so I can't hold on to the rope. I have a tree stand body harness I can wear that has a place to attach a carabiner to .Is there some type of mechanical device that a rope runs through to let out rope and has a way to lock it in place once I'm close to the edge .
if you use a figure 8 in canyon mode, once you reach your objective, you can wrap the down rope around the "neck" of the figure eight several times to put you in a hand's free, locked off mode.
@@rappelclub8271 is this a good one www.omniprogear.com/Petzl-STOP-descender-p/PD09.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8PyBRDMARIsAFo4wK0YVkEhXXePG2LKOkn1y4CguXX4HltPMAirjZH6L0LzOOxyXc4PHlMaArBZEALw_wcB
@@Sertao2013 Yes, the Petzl STOP works great, only problem is that it only works with single ropes, and does not work very well if the rope is smaller than 9mm, other than that, it is a great piece of equipment
HAVE THE STOP AND SIMPLE, don't like the simple, love the STOP, problem is that in the real world you might need to rappel with double ropes in order to pull the rope down and use it again, the Petzl's you refer to only work with single strands of rope, and they don't work well with any ropes 9.2 or smaller.
For the price of a Petzl stop you might as well toss the figure 8 and get an auto braking device. I use a prusick below (not above) the figure 8 and it works extremely well.
Very interesting on all the variations but some seems too complicated. In my personal experience I like the Munter hitch using a pear shaped carabiner. Not enough friction? Use the double Munter. Back up your system with a prusik loop or Kleimheist
@@rappelclub8271 I have not have that problem but maybe it's because of the type of rope being used. I know most rock climbers & rapellers use static rope. I believe I use dynamic ropes, maybe that's the reason.
@@benjaminchen1964 No, that is not the reason, I have both dynamic (for climbing) and static for rappelling, caving, and canyoning, if you are doing rappels of 100 feet or more, the kinks and twists can become a problem, especially in natural environments, plus it wears out the rope very fast since all the friction comes from the rope rubbing on itself as it goes around the carabiner.
@@rappelclub8271 You say you've been doing this for 32 years but you don't know what blocking means? It means tying off your rope to the descender to stop your descent. OMG
if I am rappelling 150 feet or less, it does not really matter, but if I go caving, or canyoning, or bridge rappelling for 300 or 600 feet, heat can become an issue
@@rappelclub8271 That is a remarkably dangerous rig. If there is slack in the rope, the carabiner in the bight of rope can turn and land crossways on the figure 8, with the rope bearing on the gate. When loaded again, the rope goes through the gate and you're relying on your grip strength to control your descent. (We learned that back in the late 70s, for what it's worth.)
@@cbat09 I guess I might just be lucky then, I have been doing this for over 32 years, what you are describing has never happened, not even close. I do this for fun, not to commit suicide, so I take my personal safety very seriously, as I am sure most climbers do, your suggestion makes it sound like I am some reckless and brainless thug just out to give bad advice
@@rappelclub8271 So, you admit to being lucky for over 32 years, but you don't disagree that if the figure 8 is unloaded and there is slack in the rope then the carabiner could turn and slide down the figure 8 with the rope running over the gate of the carabiner. Stay lucky, Rappel Club. I prefer to use techniques without such obvious modes of failure.
@@cbat09 there is no way the rope will run over the gate, and if you think this is even remotely possible, please demonstrate with a video, and if you are rappelling, how will the figure 8 be unloaded until you hit the ground???? you have a hell of an imagination, maybe a green gremlin could also pop out of thin air and cut the rope, leading to your death, but do I think that will happen???? Obviously not.
You are the only one whose been mentioning the heat development. "More then 150 ft descents?" I used the basic wrapped carabineer in several 5 meter descents and the carabineer got too hot to touch, so hot I was fearing it might actually melt the rope. Thanks for the tips.
the carabiner wrap rappel is the worst for heating up the carabiner because it is "wrapped" around the spine, my methods only pass the rope by a small section of the carabiner, and there for do not produce much friction, just like all the climbers using the black diamond ATC or Kong Chewy, etc.
Yeah that's true. I'm one to carry drinks to cool my equipment. Once controlled from the ground from 1600 feet. By Weldon Lee. Stops every so often to change shackles due to heat.
It makes sense to think about the heat produced, but it would have to be very hot to melt a nylon rope- its melting point is over 200 C. Sometimes the outer mantel gets slightly melted, but as the rope is constantly moving in these situations, it generally does not effect one area long enough to melt it, and the8 or carabiner takes most of the heat.
@@johnpelham9310 Well John, it is sort of irrelevant, given that this is about melting points of materials, isn't it? And I don't do feet, as it is an archaic system used only in one country. But you are right, as a mountaineer I typically do not go beyond 100m at one go, before there is a short stop and change of ropes, which does give time for things to cool. If you have known of a kernmantel rope melting due to friction, and can present this documented case, then I stand corrected.
usually I used locking carabiners, but for certain applications it is not required, such as the very old way of rappelling called "carabiner Brake" method using 4 carabiners, opposite and opposed
I’m in no way an expert climber but I would like to add ☝️ more variation to you list. Not only for descending but also for an ascent , place a bite through the big hole with the small hole pointing to the Rt. rotate the bite counter clockwise and place it over the small hole and clip into the big hole now you can ascend with the aid of an hand ascender with a foot loop and to descend keeping your brake hand on the tail pull down on the 8 like a lever ( this doesn’t work with a pulley for a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage)
Rappel Club I think it should still count think of it like a self locking rappel ? cause your weight pinches the rope by pulling down the 8 allows you to control your descent
Nice video...in the rescue mode do you have to worry about the rope going high in the eight and locking it up??? Had this happen to buddy as he was coming out of unlocking the rope for a stop in rappel?
No, the multiple wraps around the big ring in the 8 makes it almost impossible for the rope to form a girth hitch, unlike in the regular rappel mode. It can happen, but you would have to really rub the rope up against a wall or something as you are going down.
Just seen where Omega is going out of business...sad. Another question I seen where during set up you should push through a straight 8 and pull through a rescue 8 any thoughts???
I prefer a fisk myself. But I've used figure 8ts ,shackles, carabieners. Know your wraps. With a fisk you can easily stop and arrest decent, and use both hands for work. I've been trained in tower rescue.
@@dereksmith4791 The Fisk (See ruclips.net/video/nFCUNhjOTmw/видео.html ) is similar to the rescue-8 in that it has holes & horns for control features. It is considerably bigger, heavier, and more complicated & expensive, but usually puts somewhat less stress and strain on the rope. I used it briefly in firefighting, and feel it has its place in industry, and is perfectly usable for sport, but seems much less practical with no significant advantages.
Forget the one highly suspicious with the load on the gate; why is no one talking about the last one, where there's a friction of the rope with itself?!
6:30 the idea with using the canyoneering set up isn’t so you don’t have to remove the carabiner to put it on the rope it’s so that if you’re abseiling into a pool of moving water you can flick the rope over the end of the figure of 8 and swim away from the rope, instead of calling it a canyoneering plus just use the figure of 8 in a different set up, adding that extra carabiner is defeating the whole idea of the canyoneering set up...
actually it is for both reasons, not just the one you point out, and adding the second carabiner does nothing to prevent you from quickly swimming away from the rope, with practice, you can quickly unhook the second carabiner with little thought (takes me about 2 or 3 seconds while the set up is under water, just by touch).
Using a Munter hitch to ascend a rope won’t work because there is no progress capture mechanism in the munter like there is in a plaquette in guide mode, a grigri, or purpose built ascender.
Hmmmmmm. If you use a Munter, you usually back it up with a Prusik (or is it Prussic) loop, but you can climb with the Prusik by itself. It tends to cinch tight so might want so set it up with a micro pulley to help tending your slack.
@@rappelclub8271 You don't even know what blocking means and talk about false claims: Stop telling people that you came up with these methods. That last one that you couldn't even do right the first time might be yours because I've never seen it before and it's dumb but the others have been around far longer than you. You come off as a know-it-all bigmouth that cannot take criticism of any kind. Being rude to your viewer's because they have opinions that don't match your is BS. Unsubbed as well. Poser.
You keep rigging your 8 backwards. The bridge should be across the side facing you. You keep putting it on the side away from you. Putting it on the back side carries a significant risk of girth hitching your rope. If you don’t have the equipment to self rescue there is then absolutely no way to undo the girth hitch and you’re stuck until someone comes to rescue you. To self rescue you’ll need ascenders and ways to attach yourself to them. Just rig your descender correctly and avoid the girth hitch issue.
Never open your carabiner during your belay and the "carabiner brake" modes look sketchy, the rope could open the gate.
Look closer, no way those methods can open the gates
@@rappelclub8271That may be but I like to keep it simple and know a couple of methods and systems really well and practice with the munter hitch often. The breaker bar carabiner methods look like the breaker biner could slip and lead to unpredictable behavior. Dangling on a rope, I prefer predictability. Much respect.
@@rappelclub8271 dude, that technique is forbidden in industrial climbing for exact that reason, it CAN open the gate! Little bump in the wall presses against the carabiner and... boom.
@@rappelclub8271 I bet the hownot2 guys could find a way for it to open. Regardless if it "can't" open or not you should be using a locking biner for any connection that is a single point of failure.
In the brake bar set up, tou can completely remove the gate, and it will still work safely, I have no idea what you are talking about.
The one after your biner brake bar method (5:20) would cross load the biner and if the biner was to break, your rope wouldn't be attached to any part of your rap device and you'd free fall. Highly recommend not crossloading the biner.
cross loading the carabiner is no problem at all, as long as you don't cross load the gate with more force than it is rated for
@@rappelclub8271 Cross loading is one thing, but you are suggesting intentionally side loading them. There is no safe rating for side loading carabiners.
@@Maskenkenthis technique is incredibly dangerous. Promoting it is negligent.
@@rappelclub8271the MBL for crossloading on most biners is 8kn which is 800kg. But that is the breaking load. The rated load is a tenth of that which is 80kg so it is not safe to side load biners for people.
The support + was very intuitive to me. I learnt the support way as a way to be able to rappell down fast without danger of the rope loosening too much and without danger of it turning into a girth hitch and locking you, but as soon a i learnt it i realized i could add extra safety by running the rope through the back of the small circle.
Very intuitive and safe
In the cross-carabiner mode you can actually break your carabiner if it is a nowadays lightweighted piece.
Yes, maybe, but I do not use light weight any thing.
Rappel Club so why don't you say this? There are a lot of newbies out there, seeing some stuff in the Internet and going out and die.
@@Tobi-zd9zp You might be right, but I guess I was not expecting any one to use some cheap light weight biner to rappel with, unless it was an emergency
I'd have to agree. My least favorite method.
If you're rappelling correctly you never shock load the system. Side loaded carabiners can still handle 7kn (HMS, that I-Beam style is garbage for raps but still plenty strong). We use this method all day long while Canyoneering.
Thank you for sharing these various ways of setting up the figure 8 with your rope. I’ve made a small repelling set up to include uncertain backpacking trips into the woods. Better to have, and not need that not to have and find myself in a situation needing it.
Cheers🎉
A munter hitch with a carabiner will also allow you to rappell when you got no rappell device (be it an 8, atc, etc)
Ive noticed that it kind of puts a permanent twist in the rope though.
rope on rope friction is a no no . only use in emergency cause it will mess your rope up .
If you use 'canyon plus' mode but then clip the two carbiners into a third caribiner which attaches to the harness, this is good for people just learning to rappel. It puts everything in front of their line of sight (Make sure long hair is tied up!), and they are less likely to feed their hand through it! Good video, some techniques I'm going to try that I didn't know about after 42 years of climbing and teaching.
Ces méthodes vrillent énormément les cordes! A user avec précaution! Merci à la chaine!
Now i have 9-10 choices more to do with my figure 8, however i have to test these mothods by myself about friction levels before use in real situation, and thank you very much for this informative video.
I would not recommend opening your locking life safety carabiner mid rappel, ever. Otherwise, nice list of rappel techniques.
What I was immediately thinking as well.
Good point, but I have carabiners that are rated at 22kn with the gate open and 72kn with the gate locked, I have never had a problem, I have even rappelled using nothing but a bicycle as my rappel device, I guess next you are going to tell me that it should not be allowed cause it is bicycle abuse.
@@youregonnaattackthem Not if you know what you are doing, and have been doing it for 32 years.
No matter how strong carabiners you are using, an open carabiner could slip out of the figure 8 when you open it mid rappel. I know its unlikely as long as you have weight on it, but you are opening up to a potential accident.
@@gustafmartinsson True, but I have been doing this for a long time, my carabiners are mostly rated at 51kn, never had a problem.
A rescue 8 (with ears) is slightly larger but much more useful than a standard 8 and won't half hitch and lock you down. You can hold your position simply and easily with a hard or soft lock and release it instantly.
I have 3 rescue 8s, love them, but a bit heavy for daily use
@@rappelclub8271 Says the same guy shit talking lightweight biners. Make your mind up.
@@rappelclub8271 Do you rappel to work? Wth are you talking about? Why do you have 3?
anybody complaining about weight needs to hit the gym, crying about weight is a sign of weakness
hard agree @@spaceman61
If you twist the bight before passing it around the small hole in canyon mode, you get an ''auto-locking'' mode, and you can pull down on the small hole that now acts as a handle for the auto-braking function. Make sure to keep a firm hand on the rope below the device because it can ''lock'' in the ''open'' position. I always advise having a back-up rope (or at the very least a fireman belay from a partner) to prevent injury, especially when experimenting with new techniques.
Nice!
Called the "Czech Grigri" here in Switzerland.
i suspect that none of the other experts thought of the last one because normally you'd walk up to an abseil rope and attach in to it. Who would think of de-rigging it to thread the device. You could also repeatedly thread the end through the device to create multiple wraps around the big ring of the Fig8.
Yes, but if you repeatedly wrap around the big ring of the 8, the heat build up is insane, unless you are only dropping a hundred feet or so, some of these methods generate much less heat, and can be used for drops of 300 or more feet.
This is great, never seen so many techniques with a figure 8 before, thanks.
really great information. need to know stopper knots with that thing now.. thanks.
helpful, yet I'm far more likely to be rappelling off 2 strands, Not 1. Many of these methods would still work, some would be convoluted. likely to use #2, 8, 9, 10 for 2 strands. Any input? Thanks
Thanks for this video! Nice to have an overview of different figure 8 configurations.
I like gear minimalism. I have a f8. There are many descend options out there. Munter hitch has been just fine for under 100 feet. Tree climber. 🌳 ❤
I use the munter only in an emergency, if you constantly use it, your rope with be worthless in a very short time.
The canyoning mode (without your modification) is crazy...why anyone would rely on that is beyond me. Your mod should be considered mandatory. Well done video. Thanks
The main use for canyon mode is for short abseils into water, especially with fast moving water at the bottom. It is sometimes very dangerous to be attached to the rope in this kind of water, so it's helpful to be able to get off rope as quickly as possible. I tend to avoid using it and just set the rope length to be just under the water for quicker dissattachment.
Nice video. Forgive the observation, but "cross carabiner mode" (5:05) looks dicey as hell. The figure-8 is cross-loading the *gate* of the carabiner alone (not cross loading the entire carabiner, which would at least give you the standard 7kn rating). If that gate joint pops, the rope leaves that rig altogether and you're dropping like a rock. Most of these are really cool, but that one gives me the willies.
Actually, I have removed the gates on purpose and rappelling using this method with no gates at all on the carabiners, and if it is rigged correctly, there is no chance of the rope coming undone, unless you are trying to rappel a pair of elephants.
Oh man. The best tutorial ever! Cheers from Australia just subbed.nice work!🙂👍👍👍
Need back up prusik for gunter hitch
Unless short diatances.
thanks, all I needed to know about figure 8 :) that belay mode is something im going to have fun with next.
This is so great never seen so many ways to rappel, tanks for ur time showing us keepit up..from belize SAM TZ..
In the standard mode I have read the rope can slip upwards and cause a hitch. any experience with this?
this happened to me once while rappelling off some bridges on the way to Key West in Florida. Luckily I was hanging over water and so just cut the rope and went swimming.
any tricks for using a set of tiny rings to adjust and lock off amsteel hammock suspension?
The video is very interesting, but with this format you use about one third of the available video area and some time we can not see what are you doing with the descender.
I like the French rappel with 2 locking carabiners.
May i add the auto locking setup:
bite through the large opening, twist it 180 (to the right) before attaching around the smaller hole then clip in the large opening.
if you press down on the 8 so its pointing down (instead of sideways( you rappel down, if you let go it stops you, might creep a bit with wet (8,5mm in my case) rope
I was about to comment the same thing.
I was not concentrating on lock off methods, or I would have included yours along with the one used when rappelling in canyon mode
I was non concentrating on locking off methods or I would have included the one you mention, which I believe is called the Italian method, as well as the lock off method used with rappelling in canyon mode
Super simple to follow. Thanks dude!
Can you make a video about how to go back up? (Ascend)
I see you havent posted in roughly a year or so?! I genuinly hope none of your half cocked open your life support during descent and sketchy side loading techniques failed you my brother!!! I commend your fearlessness, creative spirit and originality! But you sir... Must have much more testicular fortitude than I with all that side loading and life support opening stuff!! Good video still!! Cheers!!!
No, still here, just busy with lots of traveling and many adventures hang gliding and the like.
Do you prefer a figure 8 to other devices? So many lighter options.
for rappelling only I do prefer the 8, for ice climbing and rock climbing I prefer an ATC guide because it can be used both for rappelling and as an auto block for self belaying.
The reason people answer 'no' to the munter hitch question is that it goes without saying that any system should be detachable from the rope, e.g. when you reach an anchor. You can detach yourself from the 8 but you can't remove it from the rope, unless you have access to one of the ends.
I'm not saying it doesn't have applications, of course, but it's a different category from all the other systems that can be attached and detached w/o accessing one of the ends.
But overall it's an interesting video. People forget that climbing was a thing way before the invention of modern devices.
I don't actually use that method in real world applications, just put it here to show that it can be done.
Should one use a prusik as a backup when respelling?
You should always use a prusik as a backup when rappelling, just in case.
I am surprise to see that you put the rope by thé bottom of thé 8 ...by thisnway you do noté avoid thélark knot if thé rope touchbthebroc 😮
What figure 8 are you using
it is a Trango, but I have Kong, ABC, Black Diamond, and Petzl figure 8's as well, all work well
Love the video, great descriptions of advantages of certain setups and lots of options to explore for different scenarios
It’s a great video! Thank you so much.
Could you do some video on how to tie off each one?
tie offs are usually done with a prusick back up
Would it be safer with to attach a Klemheist above the Canyon Mode in 6;21? Thanks for sharing.
Above?? perhaps below, not above.
Hi, Thank you so much for the video this is/was Excellent information. Quick question for you, I'm just now looking into the sport and wondering if you could tell me what basics I need or should purchase to be able to ascend and rappel
Thank you greatly Appreciated!
If you are just rappelling, then a descender, 5-10 carabiners, a harness, and some good hiking boots for traction while on rappel, if you are climbing, it depends, there is specific gear for rock climbing, mountain climbing, ice climbing, and for canyoning (or canyoneering). So it really depends what you are trying to learn.
Can we use only D ring for rappelling....
Without fig 8
sure, it is called the carabiner wrap rappel and only needs 1 D ring, or you can use 2 D rings and it is called the "french rappel" or "crossed carabiner" rappel
just added another video on ways of rappelling with just carabiners, check it out.
@@rappelclub8271 cool
Excellent basics.
Thank you.
Great video!
Nice... well done..!😊
I learned a lot, great video. You and Barry Manilo sound alike.
In the cross carabiner mode, you have a sideways load on the 'biner gate. Not good!
Actually, you are right, I should have done two carabiners, opposite and opposed. Thanks for pointing it out.
The munter hitch looks like it puts unnecessary wear on the rope with it rubbing like that.
Yes, you are correct, I am not advising anyone to use any of these methods, only showing what can be done.
No entiendo porque suben como usar los equipos de manera incorrecta eso es peligroso.
Vivir es peligroso, pero nadie para. Esto es solo para explicar lo que se puede hacer, no es para obligar que la gente lo haga.
The last one looks like it would ruin the rope in a hurry.
clip the fig 8 large hole to your belt krab. take a bight of rope and thread through the small 8 hole and clip a loose 2nd krab into that rope loop. now take your free rope into into a rope loop and pass through big fig 8 hole and connect this loop to your second crab and rotate that krab so the gate is away from your break hand now you have 2 loops across your break bar.
you never had to unclip your gig 8 and ropes never passes near brake bar krab gate.
liked and subbed your great vid ty.
I'm no professional, but Carabiner brake mode, the one after (and a few more after that) to me seems like a really bad idea. You're placing the majority of stress on the carabiner (the weakest part of the system). If it moves a bit, you'll be putting the majority of stress on the minor axis. Furthermore, it seems likely that it might potentially cause stress cracks after a while..
If the carabiner fails, the rope will pop out and the ground will be the only thing that stops you (there is less redundancy, and more that can go wrong)..
Otherwise, good list (learning a lot)
when you rappel with an ATC, don't you put the majority of load on the carabiner???
@@rappelclub8271 I mean crossloading it.. But again, I'm no professional (you probably know better)
@@AndrewLuecke what is the difference between crossed loading it at the spine or on the top???
@@AndrewLuecke what is the difference between cross loading the carabiner at the spine or at the top???
I don't like to be the dick in the comments section but this is sketchy and you should not take this guy's advice. The techniques in this video violate many safety principles with no benefit. Point number one: it's always best to have a locking carabiner between you and death, and there's really no reason you shouldn't. Don't use a non locker as part of your system. Always tie knots in the ends of your ropes to close the system. Lastly, creativity is great and all, but setting up a rappel shouldn't be creative. It should be as consistent as possible and once you've found something that works well for you, stick with it. Do it that way every time. Only change it under special circumstances such as adding more friction when using a very thin rope or rappelling with a heavier load.
Everyone is a critic. Hang gliding is sketchy, skateboarding is sketchy, ice climbing is sketchy, and I do all those things and more. This video is not designed to force anyone to do anything, just to show what can be done.
Canyon mode is meant to allow additional friction. Not just quick detachment.
yes, but the biggest reason we use it in canyoning situations is that we can detach from the rope without ever having to unlock the carabiner or disconnect the 8 from the carabiner
Why? The figure 8 stands by its self. Not made to be used in any configure you have shown.
I have been using these configurations for more than 15 years, not sure what you mean. I have even used a bicycle as my only rappel device and it worked fine, all depends on what you know and have experience with.
@@dvmulligan I personally have eight years experience using koala bears as ascenders. True story
I usually use additional carabiner, like when you're using bobbin descender.
Very insightful thank you
Carabiner break bar and the carabiner cross mode are side loading the biner
Yes they are, and I love to do that, works every time.
Absolutely new to this. Fortunately, understood all the terms, and am familiarized with the items in question. I'm looking for a way of setting up a SHTF way of getting outta my appartment in case the paranoid hypocondriacs in my building keep the "public spaces" in the terrace locked, when they happen to be, in fact, escape exits as well. I believe I'm going to go with the last setup/knot, as it looked the simplest, and the activity is new to me and unfortunately, don't even have time nor the facilities to practice, being under quarantine et al.
Cheers, and thanks a lot for the video, super easy to understand. Seriously. I never rapelled in my whole life and there wasn't a word I did not get. Have a nice day sir!
for some one that has never rappelled before, I would suggest the method at 7:22, it is the safest and delivers lots of friction to stay in control of the descent.
@@rappelclub8271 Isn't standard safer? Less complicated, plus just needs 1 biner. The only techniques needed are the soft-lock and the hard-lock.
@@rappelclub8271 For someone new, you set them up standard and have a bottom guy who can yank the breaking rope. Every comment here you basically set people up to die.
Do they make a stainless steel figure8 ?
yes, but they are really heavy
Creo que el sistema mostrado en el minuto 5:25 se puede hacer con 2 mosquetones. Muchas gracias.
Yes, but using it with the figure 8 means less heat build up.
If your kit is heat up like a cigarette, maybe change your plan.
Hi Rappel club . I'm looking for something that will let me let out rope that at one end is tied to the chimney and attached to me some how that will allow me to slode down the roof at a steep pitch till I reach my gutters to clean them out . Once I reach the gutters I want to stop and not be allowed to go any farther . I would like to be locked in place My hands will be in the gutters taking out leaves and putting them in a bag so I can't hold on to the rope. I have a tree stand body harness I can wear that has a place to attach a carabiner to .Is there some type of mechanical device that a rope runs through to let out rope and has a way to lock it in place once I'm close to the edge .
if you use a figure 8 in canyon mode, once you reach your objective, you can wrap the down rope around the "neck" of the figure eight several times to put you in a hand's free, locked off mode.
Or you can just buy a Petzl Stop and once you let go of the device, it will automatically lock up
@@rappelclub8271 is this a good one www.omniprogear.com/Petzl-STOP-descender-p/PD09.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8PyBRDMARIsAFo4wK0YVkEhXXePG2LKOkn1y4CguXX4HltPMAirjZH6L0LzOOxyXc4PHlMaArBZEALw_wcB
@@rappelclub8271 Do have a video showing how to use the Petzl stop ? If so will you put a link to it here ?
@@Sertao2013 Yes, the Petzl STOP works great, only problem is that it only works with single ropes, and does not work very well if the rope is smaller than 9mm, other than that, it is a great piece of equipment
Figuer 8 and carabiner and rope acces it is the Best, tanks bro tutorial and information
How about just use petzl stop or simple or anything similar, can lock off easily....
HAVE THE STOP AND SIMPLE, don't like the simple, love the STOP, problem is that in the real world you might need to rappel with double ropes in order to pull the rope down and use it again, the Petzl's you refer to only work with single strands of rope, and they don't work well with any ropes 9.2 or smaller.
Rig. All im saying. 😁
For the price of a Petzl stop you might as well toss the figure 8 and get an auto braking device.
I use a prusick below (not above) the figure 8 and it works extremely well.
Very interesting on all the variations but some seems too complicated. In my personal experience I like the Munter hitch using a pear shaped carabiner. Not enough friction? Use the double Munter. Back up your system with a prusik loop or Kleimheist
the munter is great, but also puts the most amount of kink in the rope
@@rappelclub8271 I have not have that problem but maybe it's because of the type of rope being used. I know most rock climbers & rapellers use static rope. I believe I use dynamic ropes, maybe that's the reason.
@@benjaminchen1964 No, that is not the reason, I have both dynamic (for climbing) and static for rappelling, caving, and canyoning, if you are doing rappels of 100 feet or more, the kinks and twists can become a problem, especially in natural environments, plus it wears out the rope very fast since all the friction comes from the rope rubbing on itself as it goes around the carabiner.
Nicely and simply explained. Some ideas I had not seen before.
Thank you
Great stuff. Glad I watched
Thanks again for your time. Stay safe and Godspeed.
hello from iraq with you well done
Nice video but what about blocking them on every single technique?
what do you mean when you say "blocking"????
@@rappelclub8271 he was asking how you do if you need to stop mid rapel and free your hands to do something
@@rappelclub8271 You say you've been doing this for 32 years but you don't know what blocking means? It means tying off your rope to the descender to stop your descent. OMG
What is the reason you don't want your figure 8 to heat up?
if I am rappelling 150 feet or less, it does not really matter, but if I go caving, or canyoning, or bridge rappelling for 300 or 600 feet, heat can become an issue
Q lindo ese es un ocho cuanto vale ese muy lindo nolo tengo yo escalo altura ami nivel saludo amigo
I really like that one at 5:30. But I feel like it would be way too easy to gate-load the carabiner and break it.
if you rig it correctly, you will never gate-load the carabiner.
@@rappelclub8271 That is a remarkably dangerous rig. If there is slack in the rope, the carabiner in the bight of rope can turn and land crossways on the figure 8, with the rope bearing on the gate. When loaded again, the rope goes through the gate and you're relying on your grip strength to control your descent. (We learned that back in the late 70s, for what it's worth.)
@@cbat09 I guess I might just be lucky then, I have been doing this for over 32 years, what you are describing has never happened, not even close. I do this for fun, not to commit suicide, so I take my personal safety very seriously, as I am sure most climbers do, your suggestion makes it sound like I am some reckless and brainless thug just out to give bad advice
@@rappelclub8271 So, you admit to being lucky for over 32 years, but you don't disagree that if the figure 8 is unloaded and there is slack in the rope then the carabiner could turn and slide down the figure 8 with the rope running over the gate of the carabiner.
Stay lucky, Rappel Club. I prefer to use techniques without such obvious modes of failure.
@@cbat09 there is no way the rope will run over the gate, and if you think this is even remotely possible, please demonstrate with a video, and if you are rappelling, how will the figure 8 be unloaded until you hit the ground???? you have a hell of an imagination, maybe a green gremlin could also pop out of thin air and cut the rope, leading to your death, but do I think that will happen???? Obviously not.
great video!! thanks for the share
Black Diamond instructions on the Super 8 seems to show method #2 ("Sport Mode") as one of the ways to die on this gear haha - am I seeing it wrong?
Yep, you are seeing it wrong, sport mode has been widely used and no one has died using that method that I know of, please inform me if I am wrong.
You are the only one whose been mentioning the heat development. "More then 150 ft descents?" I used the basic wrapped carabineer in several 5 meter descents and the carabineer got too hot to touch, so hot I was fearing it might actually melt the rope. Thanks for the tips.
the carabiner wrap rappel is the worst for heating up the carabiner because it is "wrapped" around the spine, my methods only pass the rope by a small section of the carabiner, and there for do not produce much friction, just like all the climbers using the black diamond ATC or Kong Chewy, etc.
Yeah that's true. I'm one to carry drinks to cool my equipment.
Once controlled from the ground from 1600 feet. By Weldon Lee. Stops every so often to change shackles due to heat.
It makes sense to think about the heat produced, but it would have to be very hot to melt a nylon rope- its melting point is over 200 C. Sometimes the outer mantel gets slightly melted, but as the rope is constantly moving in these situations, it generally does not effect one area long enough to melt it, and the8 or carabiner takes most of the heat.
@@deannilvalli6579 I've a question. What is your longest decent ?
@@johnpelham9310 Well John, it is sort of irrelevant, given that this is about melting points of materials, isn't it? And I don't do feet, as it is an archaic system used only in one country. But you are right, as a mountaineer I typically do not go beyond 100m at one go, before there is a short stop and change of ropes, which does give time for things to cool. If you have known of a kernmantel rope melting due to friction, and can present this documented case, then I stand corrected.
Do you use locking biners in real time? I would be concerned about the rope getting freed up.
usually I used locking carabiners, but for certain applications it is not required, such as the very old way of rappelling called "carabiner Brake" method using 4 carabiners, opposite and opposed
good job
I’m in no way an expert climber but I would like to add ☝️ more variation to you list. Not only for descending but also for an ascent , place a bite through the big hole with the small hole pointing to the Rt. rotate the bite counter clockwise and place it over the small hole and clip into the big hole now you can ascend with the aid of an hand ascender with a foot loop and to descend keeping your brake hand on the tail pull down on the 8 like a lever ( this doesn’t work with a pulley for a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage)
Yes, you are right, but this video only concentrates on methods for rappelling, not ascending or locking off
Rappel Club I think it should still count think of it like a self locking rappel ? cause your weight pinches the rope by pulling down the 8 allows you to control your descent
Nice video...in the rescue mode do you have to worry about the rope going high in the eight and locking it up??? Had this happen to buddy as he was coming out of unlocking the rope for a stop in rappel?
No, the multiple wraps around the big ring in the 8 makes it almost impossible for the rope to form a girth hitch, unlike in the regular rappel mode. It can happen, but you would have to really rub the rope up against a wall or something as you are going down.
Just seen where Omega is going out of business...sad. Another question I seen where during set up you should push through a straight 8 and pull through a rescue 8 any thoughts???
That's so good. Thanks!
Great video thank you so much for making this! One of the best break downs on you tube
I know this is a dumb question but I’m just curious are these made out of stainless or aluminum?
mostly aluminum, although I do use some stainless steel Omega D carabiners rated at 72kn
Rappel Club thank you very much. Very great video!!
I'm not much of a climber, but some of these methods seem sketchy
like you said, your not much of a climber
I prefer a fisk myself. But I've used figure 8ts ,shackles, carabieners.
Know your wraps.
With a fisk you can easily stop and arrest decent, and use both hands for work. I've been trained in tower rescue.
Never even heard of a 'fisk', thanks for posting am off to Google ;D
@@dereksmith4791 The Fisk (See ruclips.net/video/nFCUNhjOTmw/видео.html ) is similar to the rescue-8 in that it has holes & horns for control features. It is considerably bigger, heavier, and more complicated & expensive, but usually puts somewhat less stress and strain on the rope. I used it briefly in firefighting, and feel it has its place in industry, and is perfectly usable for sport, but seems much less practical with no significant advantages.
what brand carabiner are you using?
The one in the video is a black diamond carabiner, but I use all kinds, from Kong, to Omega, from aluminum to steel.
Forget the one highly suspicious with the load on the gate; why is no one talking about the last one, where there's a friction of the rope with itself?!
A few of the examples can be done with rap ring only. Good stuff, man. I may join the rappel club. Good stuff.
6:30 the idea with using the canyoneering set up isn’t so you don’t have to remove the carabiner to put it on the rope it’s so that if you’re abseiling into a pool of moving water you can flick the rope over the end of the figure of 8 and swim away from the rope, instead of calling it a canyoneering plus just use the figure of 8 in a different set up, adding that extra carabiner is defeating the whole idea of the canyoneering set up...
actually it is for both reasons, not just the one you point out, and adding the second carabiner does nothing to prevent you from quickly swimming away from the rope, with practice, you can quickly unhook the second carabiner with little thought (takes me about 2 or 3 seconds while the set up is under water, just by touch).
Your accent is so cool I love it 👍
Cool, didn't realize I had an accent
double standard is what usually what I use for ballet
Just one question if you can use a minter hitch to descend that could mean you can use it to ascend with to with a back up
haven't tried that yet, but will give it a spin to see if it is possible/safe
Using a Munter hitch to ascend a rope won’t work because there is no progress capture mechanism in the munter like there is in a plaquette in guide mode, a grigri, or purpose built ascender.
Austin Gillem you could just use a prusik or some form of an auto block an do it pretty easy I’d suspect
Hmmmmmm. If you use a Munter, you usually back it up with a Prusik (or is it Prussic) loop, but you can climb with the Prusik by itself. It tends to cinch tight so might want so set it up with a micro pulley to help tending your slack.
What rope is this??
it is a 8.6 canyoning rope by Mammut
@@rappelclub8271 thanks for the quick reply!
Learning!! Thank you for the video!
Method at 5:55 side loads the gate! Be careful where you get your advice folks....
you must be blind, none of these techniques side loads the gate, look again, and stop being a fucking clown
@@rappelclub8271 My what a rude response! Unsubing.
@@lizard2425 I don't like people making false claims when they obviously have no clue
@@rappelclub8271 You don't even know what blocking means and talk about false claims: Stop telling people that you came up with these methods. That last one that you couldn't even do right the first time might be yours because I've never seen it before and it's dumb but the others have been around far longer than you. You come off as a know-it-all bigmouth that cannot take criticism of any kind. Being rude to your viewer's because they have opinions that don't match your is BS. Unsubbed as well. Poser.
Great job, thanks ..!
Ill stick to standard method ,large radius,less wear on rope.
This is not a video advising you on what to do, only to show what can be done.
You keep rigging your 8 backwards. The bridge should be across the side facing you. You keep putting it on the side away from you. Putting it on the back side carries a significant risk of girth hitching your rope. If you don’t have the equipment to self rescue there is then absolutely no way to undo the girth hitch and you’re stuck until someone comes to rescue you. To self rescue you’ll need ascenders and ways to attach yourself to them. Just rig your descender correctly and avoid the girth hitch issue.
I don't hook them up that way in the real world, but thanks for pointing it out.