Its quite obvious that Bloodborne takes a lot of inspiration from H. P. Lovecraft. I just want to mention that there is a story by him and Lin Carter named "The bell in the tower" in wich a big silver bell is used in a ritual to see in a sort of alternate or coexisting and weirdly distorted reality and eventually even physically enter that other world. Maybe From Soft took inspiration there for the bell related multiplayer aspect in Bloodborne.
When you fight Ebrietas and she goes into phase 2 bells start ringing, at first i thought nothing of it but after watching your video WHAT IF she is beckoning spirits or the great ones for help and she is being ignored, maybe that has something to do with her being abandoned?
But you missed the biggest bells in the game!? Literally, kind of. There are the bells that line the roof of the Research Hall/Astral Clocktower, and the bell we hear ringing whenever we progress the time in the game. Applying your idea of the small bells being used to summon spirits (perhaps from the Abyss Aegon has been talking about), could giant bells be also used by the healing church in an attempt to summon Great Ones? The idea being that the bell we hear as we progress through the night might be part of the Mensis ritual, they're ringing church bells to call down or get the attention of the Great Ones. EDIT: Although, now that I'm thinking about it you can kind of use your 'summoning the dead' explanation to canonize the co-op features of the game. When we, as a hunter, ring a bell we are reviving prior hunters. And invasions only happen once a bell ringing woman has appeared so she too summons a hunter only coming from her they are hostile like all other beings summoned by them. It doesn't quite cover us as players using small resonant bells but it is an explanation that fits for the host summoner. Awesome videos by the way, I've been binge watching all your stuff since I've found your channel. :D
Theres your intro, cat on the lap and throw him off when you say your name. It's like your "thing". He's already a part of the show, so. 1. I think a huge argument can be made in defense of the co-op bells being canon simply because of the lamps, notes, spectre's and phantoms, you'd just have to use an infinite worlds kinda mentality, which the bells descriptions kinda backs. Not too far-fetched for Bloodborne either. 2.I believe, as you presumably do, that the bell maidens are utilizing blood and corpses, or corpse pieces to summon the monsters, both in the dungeons and the game world. Pthumerian women using blood "magic"(for lack of a better term), and the death that literally surrounds you(no shortage of body parts/bodies in Bloodborne's world) to summon enemies. There is a loud blood sound when they are created and destroyed. 3. Combination of ringing the bell to summon the messengers and lighting the incense lamp(cause I think that's what it is) to give them and you a safe place to travel. That might(poorly) explain the Yahar'gul broken lamp 4. FUCK YOU, MARIA IS INTEGRAL!!!! jk
I believe that was me who wrote that comment about the bells bringing you back and forth between the Hunters Dream and Yharnam. My theory relies on the fact that in order to summon another player into your world, you need to ring a bell. In order to help another player, again, you need to ring a bell. Furthermore, in order to be invaded, or in order to invade somebody else, a bell is rung. So in order to enter another world/nightmare, some kind of bell is always required. Then when you consider the fact that every lamp has bells on it, it just fits IMO. I know you wanted to disregard the online portion of the game but personally, I think it is absolutely vital to figuring out the purposes of the bells. It is the essential piece to this puzzle IMO. You made a good point about the broken lamp. But the Messengers are missing from that Lamp and presumably, it is the messengers that are ringing the bells in order to spawn you at any given lamp.
I think it's worth mentioning that the "Arcane" attacks (that look like red bursts of energy) that Logarius and the One Reborn use are almost identical, as far as I remember anyway.
To add to the bells on the lamp theory, From my knowledge of the Obon festival, the lanterns are said to guide the spirits back to the land of the dead. The hozuki seeds only seem to be an offering to the spirits (maybe to entice them to keep following the lantern?). More importantly, the bells are still needed to summon and send back the spirits. It is not a stretch to imagine that all three are needed to go to the Hunters' Dream. It could be that without the lantern (where the messengers gather), the Hunter cannot find the right way back to the correct dream, even if the bells are there.
Really cool point on sinister bells bringing the dead back to life. I'd wager the Pthumerian women reanimated the corpses in Yahar'gul to protect Mergo from the player hunter. Though I'd like to think The One Reborn has some greater significance than a mere road block, considering that it spawns from the blood moon, and that its name is so damn cool. Given Oedon's connection to the blood moon (impregnating women when the "red moon hangs low") and of course Mergo, it could be some bastardization of him. I can't think of anyone in the game more suited to be called "The One" than Oedon, who is supposedly ever present. On the broken lantern in Yahar'gul, I believe one of the bells is on the floor (it's clipping a bit, but visible), so they aren't totally intact. Maybe the incense lantern is there to provide a "safe" place by warding off beasts. But it does seem like the messengers play a role too. Since the messengers seem able to move freely, maybe they ring the bell for you at the lantern you specify, so you can be summoned there. I don't think your hunter is dead per se, but the use of gravestones and the phrase "awaken above ground" allude to this concept of bringing the dead back to life. You aren't dead, but you are in a sort of limbo where you can't die. Interesting stuff.
Redgrave, you are awesome. I consider you the unrivaled lore master for Bloodborne. Keep doing your thing! I just finished reading the updated Paleblood Hunt and just wanted to say its an intense and gripping read. Thanks for your great work in the community and for helping to line our brains with eyes. ; D
I think you're great on camera. Charming personality, and no lack of self-confidence. It's great to watch someone who's so passionate that they seem to completely forget that there's a camera pointed at them. I also like how you talk to the camera as if I were actually sitting there, listening to you and talking to you. You're one of those people I know I'd totally hang out with because we'd have plenty to talk about, and you seem like a cool dude.
My interpretation of the lamps/bells/messengers is that the messengers are ringing the bells on the lamps to bring the Hunter there, but can't exist in locations without the lamp. I think this idea is supported not only by the way we can't use the Hypogean Gaol lamp when the lamp breaks while the bells are still there, but also by the way messengers aren't present at a new lamp until the Hunter lights it, sort of summoning the messengers. Whatcha think about that?
Hi Redgrave and merry Xmas! I was wondering about the failed Mensis experiment in regards to the overall look of the buildings in that specific area of Yarhar'gul - all those people, corpses seemingly fused into the constructions. That does not look at all like being some kind of art to me, even if Yarhar'gul is littered with those creepy statues of, again, corpses fused together... All is boiled in blood... we know that the corpses were transported to Yarhar'gul and that Mensis thought to create some kind of primordial soup to be the base of whatever Mensis wanted to "summon"... but the experiment went full over scale and all of the Yarhar'gulites were consumed... all the fused corpses in the walls seem to try to get away from this mystical ground zero... and now that I think of it, this might be yet another eerie link to real-world japanese culture - in regards to the nuclear bombings in the WWII-era? Well, my train of thought is a bit derailing right here but all those anguished people trying to get away from something just made me see a connection there. Could be wrong but I believe it's a fact that the bombings still have an immense impact on the japanese culture even now and that a lot of that impact has been representative in Japanese productions - just as for example Godzilla was a direct reminder of the horrors of nuclear destruction in a post-WWII world. It's kinda recurrent theme that has been haunting them ever since... Also, I believe you say that the people trying to get away were frozen in stone... I like to think that, Philadelphia Experiment- style, the tearing of reality, the overlapping of dimensions made them get fused in the walls when they tried to get away, and when the one local reality returned to normal... These are totally the corpses fused into the walls.. very disturbing!! Well, just my few cents on that peculiar area...adding on your as always excellent thoughts on this great lore...!! Oh BTW, I'l love to know if you have a particular compendium of Lovecraft's writings. It's been driving me nuts over the last 25+ years since I started getting into Lovecraft to find a good compendium. No-one's ever tried to create a complete works (not only talking about the novels but also including selected letters etc). The closest I could get is actually a three volume edition in French, but even this does not include any correspondence of his... so any Insight (heh) would be appreciated!
Regarding online stuff and NPC summons not linking to the story: How do you feel about Eileen's line "You must have killed Gascoigne as well, then?" after helping her kill Henryk? I've watched all your Little Things videos so far (fantastic stuff, btw), and I couldn't find any mention of it, but I feel it's a significant little snippet of dialogue. You could argue that she means you killed Gascoigne "as well as Henryk", but I believe the voice direction is more careful than to let such an intonation slip get by. She talks as if she (or possibly someone else) has also killed Gascoigne, which might imply that there's more to the act of summoning and "multiple hunters" than just an online mechanic. I'm afraid I haven't put much thought into it, but maybe it'll provide an interesting angle. Sorry if you did already mention it and/or disproved its relevance. Keep up the great work!
Bob Simpson I’m 2 years late, but it’s because Henryk was Gascoigne’s hunting partner. They were a well known pair and Eileen probably didn’t realise you killed him until he saw him in Oedon cemetery. She was probably surprised by the fact he was already dead.
For the sake of proof I have a BL4 NG+ Paarl kill on my channel. It's kind of hard to see it because I'm showing my stats at the end of the video but it's definitely there. Makes me wonder who Paarl originally was even more.
+ghost hardware Yeah it looks like its just a replacement drop for some of the badges, which is kind of disappointing. Might need to have an addendum to the addendum.
Someone might have raised this already, but the River of Blood in the Hunter's Nightmare (which is also the lowest level of the dreamlands present in game) is very likely based on one of the Buddhist Hells (I think it's called the Pool of Blood and Filth). This also backed up by Ludwig's equine design, which likely references the horse-headed "demon" that torments the dead. I don't know if this is connected to The One Reborn, but the writhing mass of corpses and blood could be viewed as mimicked by the River. Regardless, the Hunter's Nightmare is probably the closest to Hell in BB, both in terms of depiction and in terms of its "depth" in the Nightmare.
i don't know if anyone noticed this but red moon only hangs low in yahrnam and in the unseen vilage so the places where amydalas are present and nowhere else there is a mention that it once hung low in old yahrnam though also the bells on churches are used to summon people to church thought i would mention this
I Redgrave! I came to the party to late, but just wanted to tell you that I think you overlooked that bells also has a significant part i judeo christian tradition as well. We are summoned by church bells every sunday. The bell tolls and we gather. Well same goes for icecreem trucks. We are generally drawn to bells. All culture. So using a bell as a summoning tool is just what it is. A call for help, gathering or generally speaking, summons.
hey Redgrave I am a long time souls fan, I read the pale blood hunt on reddit when you first released it and have been an avid supporter since. Do you have a patreon or anything similar so I can show my appreciation and support your efforts?
+Redgrave oh my goodness this is embarrassing. I had 5 minutes left of the video and hearing you talk about your next project made me so excited to support you because I knew you were putting a lot of time in.
Don't worry about it. I appreciate the sentiment a lot. Right now I have no plans to set up a Patreon, but if enough people requested it I might set one up just because like, if people want to give me money who am I to say no, right?
+Redgrave Hey sorry I was actually at work when I first replied. I would love to tell you in a longer format how much I appreciate your work, but for the sake of brevity I will do that later. I feel that the work you do and the content you have created is invaluable, especially for those of us who really are attached the the soulsborne community, and the chance to repay you even a portion of that as appreciation is something I think a lot of us desire.
I always thought the sinister resonant Bells and the bell ringers were like Rick's portal gun .Calling the enemies from an alternate timeline or universe
Hi, really like the work you and others do, Bloodborne has become my game-archeology obsession too. Speaking of Buddhism in your video I was reminded of reading about the three thirds umbilical cord, and the importance of the number 3 as the three Bohdi (knowledge of universal law/ awakening). Re. messengers: I wondered if they were the equivalent of blood echos of the great ones, since they are refered to as 'fleeting will' (though obviously no further details to draw about them, so its all pure speculation). Keep up the awesome work, and have a good new year!
the online function might have made sense IF it was the one we assumed it would be before the game came out. The idea the developers planted in our minds in the development phase was that Hunters were roaming the city killing beasts, and the more blood you absorved, the more beastly you would turn, kind of like the hollow effect of Souls games. That in turn would make you very susceptible to being attacked by other Hunters, or in other words, Invaded by other players. That would fit very nicely with the plot of the game, lore and mechanic wise. The supposition that the Beasthood mechanic of the game is left unfinished or scrapped also supports this idea. Hell, if we look closely to the visceral attack, you can see your hand turning beastly, so it seems they had more planned to it. The same way Humanity reverted Hollowing, Insight reverts Beasthood, I think thats something they even left in the game. I have also just remembered that when Project Beast was announced, they showed instances where you could decide to help Hunters or not, and they would in turn help you in the long run. That seems to have been removed. Also, i believe that the online was supposed to be seamless in the early stages of dev and you would get no notification of when players entered your world, which would fit perfectly with the atmosphere and story of the game. WILL WE EVER GET A FROM SOFT FINISHED GAME?????
+Hattori Hanzo I'm almost completely positive that the articles that talked about beast transformations before Bloodborne came out were completely fake. The "translated" articles had no valid sources whatsoever, and were in completely broken english. In fact half of these super reliable articles weren't even articles at all, just "leaked photos" with horrible quality. From then on the rumor just spread everywhere as fact that there would be a beast transformation feature for players.
***** nah, thats the excuse people started using when it was implied that there was cut content regarding the transformation. Miazaki even said very early on in development that the player would have a disease, and you would have to make some serious choices about taking an antidote or keeping it for later, due to it having "side effects", creating a tension that isnt in the final game. it was never said that you would transform into a beast, but it was heavily implied when the game was first announced, and the beasthood mechanic is very poorly implemented in the game. Add that to the fact that the online features are very shallow compared to other Souls games, and its evident that something was lost in the process. They also said that the online would be seamless, with you finding other players without warning. How cool would it be to have hunters invade you cause you were transforming?
+Hattori Hanzo personally i don't think it's implied within that quote you got from miyazaki, i think it's people searching for something that isn't there. at the end of the day there's no use bickering over it. even if it was "cut content", it seems like you only see that term as a bad thing. content being cut from a game is usually because said content doesn't work or can't be implemented smoothly in the game that the developers wanted to create.
***** im not saying cut content is bad, im saying there is cut content. Bloodborne is the only game in the souls series where the online does seem to be simply there for the sake of it, and not connected to the lore and story in some way ( as far as we know), and that there seems to have been a good reason to have it before the game was near finished.
You’d think that the MP would be able to rip the ability to “wake back up” in the dream away from us if we try to run from her during a fight. But I guess maybe the MP wasn’t omniscient. Either that, or we were powerful enough to force a way out? Thoughts on Gerhman dropping a hunters mark upon subsequent victories*
In the new Dark Souls 3, there is a giant bell that brings back old Lords of the Flame to life. Just wanted to bring that to the table, probably a self-reference to Bloodborne.
Hi redgrave! Love your work! While Ive shared your opinion that the online functionality makes no sense story wise, I like to think that the ringing of the bells isn't calling hunters from other worlds, but rather, hunters in the city. They hear your bell and come running.
I get the bold hunters mark to drop from those crawling enemies in the sewer area of yharnam, the ones that are missing they're legs and look half rotten. Dunno if that's anything significant or not but I've got that item from them quite frequently.
One idea that I thought would have been cool to implement in terms of online play would be a Vagrant-like mechanic where if a player dies with a large amount of echoes and then fails to reach them before dying again, it can have the chance to spawn a creature made of these forlorn echoes in another players world. While cool, I also think this would be used to grief early game to make up for the lack of invasions before level 30, where players would get a bunch of echoes and kill themselves in Central Yharnam over and over, hoping they spawn a creature that kills a new player. I suspect this has happened to me, as I've encountered Vagrants in DS Remastered on highly sus locations that made those locations much more difficult. But hey, give something cool to this community with online features and its bound to be ruined.
Obviously set up a patreon. I most likely wouldn't give you any money and I still think you should. I don't believe anybody feels obliged to pay, but it makes it so that if/when they do, they're able to do so hassle-free. One of the things that's put me off donating to streamers before is that I only wanted to donate a small amount, but also didn't want to prompt the donation notification as if I was trying to show off generosity and force a verbal recognition of my donation. A similar thing might apply when comparing patreon donations with asking for your paypal. Brilliant videos by the way, keep up the great work.
We Asian players thought the bells were from Christian mass, cuz the bells in the game resembled the sanctus bells. I found it quite ironic that we tried to explaining this element in the opposite position.
BTW, the bells in different sizes in not the same thing in east Asian culture. The cute little ones like the bell ringers hold are called 鈴 (suzu in Japanese) which are more considered toys or instruments. The giant ones are called 钟 (zhong in Chinese), which are mostly related to Buddhism ceremonies.
Hey Redgrave love your videos, and have just started to read the Paleblood Hunt...love the game and your insights have certainly added to it, thanks...richys6xx
I've always kinda just thought of the NPC summons in Bloodborne as you meeting up with that character as an NPC, and fighting them as a boss together. They just made them summons so the NPC wouldn't die and their quest wouldn't end. Think Siegward in Dark Souls 3.
Thank god, I thought you were done with this! Thank god you're still doing this. I fucking love ya mate. Why can't it be both? About the Bells and The Lamp? The Lamp attracts the messengers and the bells are the "Highway" for travel, we need the messengers at point A & B but we the need the bells to Zero in on where we're going.
The only thing against the idea that the one reborn isn't special is the fact that it's name is "The one reborn" which seems to imply something special
I think there is an arguement made for the multiplayer being canonical. the bell women outside of the labrynth appear in both the waking and nightmare dreams without the player spawning one by using our bacon bell. So those bell women are meant to be there for every play regardless of if they want to take part in multiplayer or not. Note that the bell women in the nightmare's are the ones who summon player hunters. However It is important to realise that the bell women in the nightmare's have more similarities to the ones in the labrynth then the ones in the hidden village. The bell women of the labrynth spawn enemies who essentially are aggrod on you the moment they are summoned, this can be annoying, but I thinks it's important to realise that the only other places in the game where enemies aggro on you from great distance, as if their purpose is to hunt you, is the dungeon bell rooms, and the players who are beckoned in the nightmare's by bell women. The concept of time is a pointless though when we look at the dream scapes of bloodborne, but I don't think it's too far of a stretch to think of players getting summoned by you or bell women, are remnants beings from other places in time, space, whatever uncomprehendable place.
This is a really loose connection, but i kinda thought that the sinister-bell summoning was kinda like birth, or maybe rebirth. They get dragged into this world, blood covered, and once the Bell maidens die, the blood washes off them. Kinda seems like the bell maidens are sort of umbilical cords, who once they are killed, no longer support and protect what they brought into the world, making them "mature" and lose their protective coating.
I believe Dark Beast Paarl also drops a Bold Hunters Mark after the first time you beat him. This gives credence to your Darkbeast video discussion who he likely was.
Theory - what if the reason all the raised enemies in ya har'gul look like central Yharnamites is because they're the enemies you've killed up until that point brought back over and over?
Maybe, and this might sound weird or incorrect, but what if the lantern acts as a power source for the bells? We know there isn't magic, but things that act as a bridge between worlds need power and, as we've seen with The One Reborn, power can be generated via multiple individuals or, in Logarius case with the spirits he's tossing at us, one person. So, as strange as it sounds, does anyone think it's possible that the burning of whatever fuel in the lanterns is giving the bells the power to act as a bridge and that they're made to act as a bridge to and from the Hunter's Dream only?
Thanks for another video! Can't wait for your big project and the episode about Brador whenever your decide to release them. There's a small bell around the neck of the Crowfeather Garb that Eileen wears. I thought that this might just be a trinket she wears to show her connection to the Dream, given the bells on the lanterns. However, I'm not 100% sure on that. Any thoughts? The Church Giants and Servants also wear bells. They are also pale and have black eyes, as if they were dead. I thought their bells served a practical purpose, such as warning townsfolk on the night of the hunt that they were coming through, so you better get inside your homes or you'll get butchered. Alternatively, is it possible that the bells are what's keeping these possibly undead Servants and Giants animated? Could the Healing Church have found a way to reanimate the dead in some lesser capacity after exploring the Chalice Dungeons and coming in contact with the Pthumerian Bell Ringers? I think there are some holes in this kind of theory myself, but any thoughts?
easy: the Messangers ring the lamp bells, like they do the church gate. the broken lamp has no messangers. there were there in the beginning, only cause u strayed from the path i guess, so u can return.
I only think the online is relevant to the story when discussing the Beckoning, Small Resonant, and Sinister Bells. The bells themselves are what's significant.
I would really be interested in your opinion about what happened to fishing village.Is it the true version of the village or the nightmare version(propably nightmare because you can see yharnam under water),is it far away from yharnam(or does it even exist in the real world)is it set in past and what happened to the villagers themselves.
Also notice the bells hanging on the lantern spawn points. Being the point you wake up upon dying. I don't recall you pointing this out. Merry Christmas
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best. Lets saw for example we were Hunters in a massive city, I doubt we see the entirety of the city and we are going to be ganked by too many monsters that one, two, or even five people could not defeat. This after all is an over run city, absent of cell phone technology how would we quickly let others hopefully in the vicinity know we are in deep shit, please come help? Well....you would be noisy, a shout may not be enough, you'd ring a primitive bell and hopefully draw your fellow hunters to your location. I know you're saying wouldn't that make it worse by drawing more Beasties to you? Well yeah, but in a desperation crunch when you're being swarmed, you might not have a choice.
Your One Reborn theory seems super sketchy to me. I’m not convinced there’s any evidence that enemies can just wander from the Nightmare lands into reality. Everything we see seems to either result from the beast plague, church experimentation (Celestial Emissary) or from things the Church brought out of the chalice dungeons intentionally (like the Church Giants and Ebrietas). I always grouped the Chime Maidens in the latter category, along with the kidnappers and potentially the eye collectors. The kidnappers actively work for Mensis, so it’s not unreasonable to think the Chime Maidens might too. And the corpses melting into the walls really seems like evidence of a particular cataclysmic event, not something we have any reason to believe the Chime Maidens could or would do on their own. The thing that got me thinking about bells was the Surgery Altar. I was kind of hoping you’d talk about the Healing Church’s use of bells in this episode, because it seems really important but I haven’t been able to make much of it. They’re nice big shiny bells, one in the surgery altar, in addition to the ones hanging on the necks of the Church Servants and Giants. My first thought was that these were what they used to summon them from the chalice dungeons or wherever they exist, but there’s no real evidence for that. It seems like the bell-ringer in the Surgery Altar must be summoning something from some other plane, but I don’t know what that would be. Phantasms? The idea occurs to me that this could be how they create the Church Giants, but that doesn’t seem strongly supported either. On their own, the bells on the Giants could just be a sign of the hunt, to get people off the streets. But the Surgery Altar suggests it’s more important somehow. Plus, they are specifically gold, as opposed to the Choir Bell, which is silver and doesn’t cross planes.
Keep doing what you're doing Redgrave. Love your insights. Did you know Eileen has a small bell necklace she wears? Possibly relevant! Do you have a patreon or something I can donate to?
Ok so i know im late to the party and all but i had b.b since release and finished a bunch of runthroughs but i am still learning alot of the universe and all and i only heard of redgrave today so i got some snacks tuned in and i was hooked....there is two things im still wondering about after watching this episode on bells. What connection would you make between the cthulu monsters in the dlc seeing as the use i would say like a bell enchantment on their weapon and the next im curious about is the bell chiming in yahrnam every now and again.
Oh man, I've been so annoyed with Yahar'gul after defeating Rom. It just didn't add up. And all the theories about Mensis making TOR always sounded like hogwash (they're not in league with the bell ringers, they're already sucked into the nightmare before the TOR summoning, they don't care about giving a great one a body they just want insight,...). He just felt like a mandatory bossfight that didn't make sense. This theory is the first one that fits, great! I get the sense that queen Yarnham maybe fought back against Mensis with her Shadows and Pthumerian servants (bellringers?), especially since the Yahar'gul boars and the Shadows are enemies among themselves. I never quite got what she wants from you concerning Mergo though. People claim that she bows to you when you "release" the baby from the Wet Nurse/Mensis but I just don't see her bowing, but instead collapsing in despair. Honestly it's not a bow at all to me. That leaves the idea that perhaps you killed the formless wet nurse sent by formless Oedon to protect their child, and she collapses because her baby died. But then why didn't she attack you at first or why wasn't she with the baby? That's a big question for me. For one thing I don't think the wet nurse would be in league with Mensis: either it had always been there in the childs nightmare after it died and Mensis joined them, or Mensis created the nightmare dragging the child along and Oedon sent the wet nurse to protect it. Anyway I'm in the dark regarding the whole Mensis-Yarnham-Oedon relationship....
I'd like to cut in. The common misconception for the Christian hell is that it's a lake of fire, but it may not have anything to do with fire if at all. It's more of a realm of absolute pain that none has felt before. Sorry just wanted to say that
just asking... sometimes, while you're playing in yharnam, you hear a bell ringing time to time. Like a church bell... is there something about that or it's nothing?
What if the bells on the lamp are what call the messengers to take you back to the dream? Lighting the lamp connects that area to the dream, and ringing the bells on the lamp tells the messengers that you want to go back to the dream. If the lamp isn't lit, the connection is absent or severed considering the broken lamp in yahargul later in the game. I know that you kinda addressed that idea, but I think it's a nice spin that makes the bells on the lamps more useful. It's all conjecture of course.
As much of a disappointment that your One Reborn theory seems to be, it's certainly what it looks like. I always thought that the School of Mensis created this creature and then the bellmaidens summoned it from the Nightmare, but sadly there isn't quite enough evidence to substantiate the idea that Mensis had anything to do with its conception in addition to the Brain of Mensis. And regarding your addendum to the Bold Hunter's Mark discussion, it's important to note that in NG+ and beyond, every badge you already have is replaced by a Bold Hunter's Mark which means you'll get one from Paarl in addition to Eileen, Djura, and Gehrman. I haven't checked recently but you'll probably also get one from Alfred and Annalise, and I doubt we could consider either of them current or past hunters of the dream. I personally doubt that story-wise they're actually handing you these hunter's marks, but rather they're simply replacements for the badges you already have. It's an attractive idea though, and one I'll always consider.
The Pthumerian bell maidens certainly seem to be trying to give Mergo a physical form with The One Reborn. However it's hard to say whether or not that mass of corpses they brought to life was even remotely successful in resurrecting Mergo or not.
I always thought of Arcane as the Hunter's own (ability is too strong a word) relationship with the cosmic, reality-warping elements within Bloodborne's universe. The more "in tune" with the cosmos the Hunter is, the more they can bend reality's rules.
Gotta be honest with yourself man, at many times from soft just laughs at ppl putting all this mental energy into things that are just objects placed in a game, don't need mental gymnastics 😂🤣
I really like your video, you have so much love and passion for bloodborne compared to that guy vaati. He's stupid, empty, he's a fucking thief and he doesn't bring anything new to the discussion.
Its quite obvious that Bloodborne takes a lot of inspiration from H. P. Lovecraft. I just want to mention that there is a story by him and Lin Carter named "The bell in the tower" in wich a big silver bell is used in a ritual to see in a sort of alternate or coexisting and weirdly distorted reality and eventually even physically enter that other world.
Maybe From Soft took inspiration there for the bell related multiplayer aspect in Bloodborne.
This is probably what it is
Hi Redgrave, I'm the guy who's working on the italian translation of your work. Merry Christmas to you man! And thanks for the upload, made my Eve.
Bravo ragazzo.
hey l'hai tradotto il libro? grande comunque
Che fine ha fatto la traduzione?
When you fight Ebrietas and she goes into phase 2 bells start ringing, at first i thought nothing of it but after watching your video WHAT IF she is beckoning spirits or the great ones for help and she is being ignored, maybe that has something to do with her being abandoned?
Theodore petridis thats a pretty great idea in all honesty
But you missed the biggest bells in the game!? Literally, kind of. There are the bells that line the roof of the Research Hall/Astral Clocktower, and the bell we hear ringing whenever we progress the time in the game.
Applying your idea of the small bells being used to summon spirits (perhaps from the Abyss Aegon has been talking about), could giant bells be also used by the healing church in an attempt to summon Great Ones? The idea being that the bell we hear as we progress through the night might be part of the Mensis ritual, they're ringing church bells to call down or get the attention of the Great Ones.
EDIT: Although, now that I'm thinking about it you can kind of use your 'summoning the dead' explanation to canonize the co-op features of the game. When we, as a hunter, ring a bell we are reviving prior hunters. And invasions only happen once a bell ringing woman has appeared so she too summons a hunter only coming from her they are hostile like all other beings summoned by them. It doesn't quite cover us as players using small resonant bells but it is an explanation that fits for the host summoner.
Awesome videos by the way, I've been binge watching all your stuff since I've found your channel. :D
Theres your intro, cat on the lap and throw him off when you say your name. It's like your "thing". He's already a part of the show, so.
1. I think a huge argument can be made in defense of the co-op bells being canon simply because of the lamps, notes, spectre's and phantoms, you'd just have to use an infinite worlds kinda mentality, which the bells descriptions kinda backs. Not too far-fetched for Bloodborne either.
2.I believe, as you presumably do, that the bell maidens are utilizing blood and corpses, or corpse pieces to summon the monsters, both in the dungeons and the game world. Pthumerian women using blood "magic"(for lack of a better term), and the death that literally surrounds you(no shortage of body parts/bodies in Bloodborne's world) to summon enemies. There is a loud blood sound when they are created and destroyed.
3. Combination of ringing the bell to summon the messengers and lighting the incense lamp(cause I think that's what it is) to give them and you a safe place to travel. That might(poorly) explain the Yahar'gul broken lamp
4. FUCK YOU, MARIA IS INTEGRAL!!!! jk
I believe that was me who wrote that comment about the bells bringing you back and forth between the Hunters Dream and Yharnam. My theory relies on the fact that in order to summon another player into your world, you need to ring a bell. In order to help another player, again, you need to ring a bell. Furthermore, in order to be invaded, or in order to invade somebody else, a bell is rung. So in order to enter another world/nightmare, some kind of bell is always required. Then when you consider the fact that every lamp has bells on it, it just fits IMO. I know you wanted to disregard the online portion of the game but personally, I think it is absolutely vital to figuring out the purposes of the bells. It is the essential piece to this puzzle IMO.
You made a good point about the broken lamp. But the Messengers are missing from that Lamp and presumably, it is the messengers that are ringing the bells in order to spawn you at any given lamp.
Best thumbnail/intro combo ever.
Aegon & Redgrave fanfiction! We need that!
A Bell related video for the Holiday season? Excellently festive.
I think it's worth mentioning that the "Arcane" attacks (that look like red bursts of energy) that Logarius and the One Reborn use are almost identical, as far as I remember anyway.
Man I love listening to you, insightful, honest and funny. You're awesome!
To add to the bells on the lamp theory,
From my knowledge of the Obon festival, the lanterns are said to guide the spirits back to the land of the dead. The hozuki seeds only seem to be an offering to the spirits (maybe to entice them to keep following the lantern?). More importantly, the bells are still needed to summon and send back the spirits.
It is not a stretch to imagine that all three are needed to go to the Hunters' Dream. It could be that without the lantern (where the messengers gather), the Hunter cannot find the right way back to the correct dream, even if the bells are there.
Really cool point on sinister bells bringing the dead back to life. I'd wager the Pthumerian women reanimated the corpses in Yahar'gul to protect Mergo from the player hunter. Though I'd like to think The One Reborn has some greater significance than a mere road block, considering that it spawns from the blood moon, and that its name is so damn cool. Given Oedon's connection to the blood moon (impregnating women when the "red moon hangs low") and of course Mergo, it could be some bastardization of him. I can't think of anyone in the game more suited to be called "The One" than Oedon, who is supposedly ever present.
On the broken lantern in Yahar'gul, I believe one of the bells is on the floor (it's clipping a bit, but visible), so they aren't totally intact. Maybe the incense lantern is there to provide a "safe" place by warding off beasts. But it does seem like the messengers play a role too. Since the messengers seem able to move freely, maybe they ring the bell for you at the lantern you specify, so you can be summoned there. I don't think your hunter is dead per se, but the use of gravestones and the phrase "awaken above ground" allude to this concept of bringing the dead back to life. You aren't dead, but you are in a sort of limbo where you can't die. Interesting stuff.
Perhaps you're summoning other Paleblood Hunters from other Paleblood Hunts? Or even dreams of those hunters?
Redgrave, you are awesome. I consider you the unrivaled lore master for Bloodborne. Keep doing your thing! I just finished reading the updated Paleblood Hunt and just wanted to say its an intense and gripping read. Thanks for your great work in the community and for helping to line our brains with eyes. ; D
Witches looking around at all the coffins
“It’s bloody Christmas girls”🎄
Small Resonant Bell use harmonic resonance to sync up. It's all very quantum phsyicsy.
I think you're great on camera. Charming personality, and no lack of self-confidence. It's great to watch someone who's so passionate that they seem to completely forget that there's a camera pointed at them. I also like how you talk to the camera as if I were actually sitting there, listening to you and talking to you. You're one of those people I know I'd totally hang out with because we'd have plenty to talk about, and you seem like a cool dude.
Bruh, you might be one of my favorite people.
My interpretation of the lamps/bells/messengers is that the messengers are ringing the bells on the lamps to bring the Hunter there, but can't exist in locations without the lamp. I think this idea is supported not only by the way we can't use the Hypogean Gaol lamp when the lamp breaks while the bells are still there, but also by the way messengers aren't present at a new lamp until the Hunter lights it, sort of summoning the messengers. Whatcha think about that?
These videos are excellent.So interesting.Eldritch Truth slowly reveals itself and frenz builds up.
He's so happy here 😋❤
Great video man, i love this series!
Hi Redgrave and merry Xmas!
I was wondering about the failed Mensis experiment in regards to the overall look of the buildings in that specific area of Yarhar'gul - all those people, corpses seemingly fused into the constructions. That does not look at all like being some kind of art to me, even if Yarhar'gul is littered with those creepy statues of, again, corpses fused together... All is boiled in blood... we know that the corpses were transported to Yarhar'gul and that Mensis thought to create some kind of primordial soup to be the base of whatever Mensis wanted to "summon"... but the experiment went full over scale and all of the Yarhar'gulites were consumed... all the fused corpses in the walls seem to try to get away from this mystical ground zero... and now that I think of it, this might be yet another eerie link to real-world japanese culture - in regards to the nuclear bombings in the WWII-era?
Well, my train of thought is a bit derailing right here but all those anguished people trying to get away from something just made me see a connection there. Could be wrong but I believe it's a fact that the bombings still have an immense impact on the japanese culture even now and that a lot of that impact has been representative in Japanese productions - just as for example Godzilla was a direct reminder of the horrors of nuclear destruction in a post-WWII world. It's kinda recurrent theme that has been haunting them ever since...
Also, I believe you say that the people trying to get away were frozen in stone... I like to think that, Philadelphia Experiment- style, the tearing of reality, the overlapping of dimensions made them get fused in the walls when they tried to get away, and when the one local reality returned to normal... These are totally the corpses fused into the walls.. very disturbing!!
Well, just my few cents on that peculiar area...adding on your as always excellent thoughts on this great lore...!!
Oh BTW, I'l love to know if you have a particular compendium of Lovecraft's writings. It's been driving me nuts over the last 25+ years since I started getting into Lovecraft to find a good compendium. No-one's ever tried to create a complete works (not only talking about the novels but also including selected letters etc). The closest I could get is actually a three volume edition in French, but even this does not include any correspondence of his... so any Insight (heh) would be appreciated!
damn i just found this channel hope to see this man and his content soon
Ahh yes. But... What if... BLUEgrave?
Big guy from dlc right before lawrence’s room attacks you with his weapon, which acts like a bell
Regarding online stuff and NPC summons not linking to the story:
How do you feel about Eileen's line "You must have killed Gascoigne as well, then?" after helping her kill Henryk?
I've watched all your Little Things videos so far (fantastic stuff, btw), and I couldn't find any mention of it, but I feel it's a significant little snippet of dialogue.
You could argue that she means you killed Gascoigne "as well as Henryk", but I believe the voice direction is more careful than to let such an intonation slip get by. She talks as if she (or possibly someone else) has also killed Gascoigne, which might imply that there's more to the act of summoning and "multiple hunters" than just an online mechanic.
I'm afraid I haven't put much thought into it, but maybe it'll provide an interesting angle. Sorry if you did already mention it and/or disproved its relevance. Keep up the great work!
Bob Simpson I’m 2 years late, but it’s because Henryk was Gascoigne’s hunting partner. They were a well known pair and Eileen probably didn’t realise you killed him until he saw him in Oedon cemetery. She was probably surprised by the fact he was already dead.
Hey Redgrave, love your content man. Thought you might be interested to know Paarl also drops a Bold Hunters Mark in NG+ playthroughs.
For the sake of proof I have a BL4 NG+ Paarl kill on my channel. It's kind of hard to see it because I'm showing my stats at the end of the video but it's definitely there. Makes me wonder who Paarl originally was even more.
+ghost hardware Yeah it looks like its just a replacement drop for some of the badges, which is kind of disappointing. Might need to have an addendum to the addendum.
+Redgrave Also, forgot to say it the first time but happy holidays Redgrave! Hope things are well on your end.
The ringing of the bells bells bells bells bells bells...
Someone might have raised this already, but the River of Blood in the Hunter's Nightmare (which is also the lowest level of the dreamlands present in game) is very likely based on one of the Buddhist Hells (I think it's called the Pool of Blood and Filth). This also backed up by Ludwig's equine design, which likely references the horse-headed "demon" that torments the dead. I don't know if this is connected to The One Reborn, but the writhing mass of corpses and blood could be viewed as mimicked by the River. Regardless, the Hunter's Nightmare is probably the closest to Hell in BB, both in terms of depiction and in terms of its "depth" in the Nightmare.
This is actually the best theory I've heard on The one Reborn
i don't know if anyone noticed this but red moon only hangs low in yahrnam and in the unseen vilage so the places where amydalas are present and nowhere else there is a mention that it once hung low in old yahrnam though
also the bells on churches are used to summon people to church thought i would mention this
I Redgrave! I came to the party to late, but just wanted to tell you that I think you overlooked that bells also has a significant part i judeo christian tradition as well. We are summoned by church bells every sunday. The bell tolls and we gather. Well same goes for icecreem trucks. We are generally drawn to bells. All culture. So using a bell as a summoning tool is just what it is. A call for help, gathering or generally speaking, summons.
hey Redgrave I am a long time souls fan, I read the pale blood hunt on reddit when you first released it and have been an avid supporter since. Do you have a patreon or anything similar so I can show my appreciation and support your efforts?
+thehundreds00 lmao, did you watch the end of this episode?
+Redgrave oh my goodness this is embarrassing. I had 5 minutes left of the video and hearing you talk about your next project made me so excited to support you because I knew you were putting a lot of time in.
Don't worry about it. I appreciate the sentiment a lot. Right now I have no plans to set up a Patreon, but if enough people requested it I might set one up just because like, if people want to give me money who am I to say no, right?
+Redgrave Hey sorry I was actually at work when I first replied. I would love to tell you in a longer format how much I appreciate your work, but for the sake of brevity I will do that later. I feel that the work you do and the content you have created is invaluable, especially for those of us who really are attached the the soulsborne community, and the chance to repay you even a portion of that as appreciation is something I think a lot of us desire.
All i want for X-mas is the new episode on Brador👻 Happy holidays!!
I always thought the sinister resonant Bells and the bell ringers were like Rick's portal gun .Calling the enemies from an alternate timeline or universe
Hi, really like the work you and others do, Bloodborne has become my game-archeology obsession too.
Speaking of Buddhism in your video I was reminded of reading about the three thirds umbilical cord, and the importance of the number 3 as the three Bohdi (knowledge of universal law/ awakening).
Re. messengers: I wondered if they were the equivalent of blood echos of the great ones, since they are refered to as 'fleeting will' (though obviously no further details to draw about them, so its all pure speculation).
Keep up the awesome work, and have a good new year!
Merry Christmas Redgrave!
the online function might have made sense IF it was the one we assumed it would be before the game came out. The idea the developers planted in our minds in the development phase was that Hunters were roaming the city killing beasts, and the more blood you absorved, the more beastly you would turn, kind of like the hollow effect of Souls games. That in turn would make you very susceptible to being attacked by other Hunters, or in other words, Invaded by other players.
That would fit very nicely with the plot of the game, lore and mechanic wise.
The supposition that the Beasthood mechanic of the game is left unfinished or scrapped also supports this idea. Hell, if we look closely to the visceral attack, you can see your hand turning beastly, so it seems they had more planned to it. The same way Humanity reverted Hollowing, Insight reverts Beasthood, I think thats something they even left in the game.
I have also just remembered that when Project Beast was announced, they showed instances where you could decide to help Hunters or not, and they would in turn help you in the long run. That seems to have been removed. Also, i believe that the online was supposed to be seamless in the early stages of dev and you would get no notification of when players entered your world, which would fit perfectly with the atmosphere and story of the game.
WILL WE EVER GET A FROM SOFT FINISHED GAME?????
+Hattori Hanzo I'm almost completely positive that the articles that talked about beast transformations before Bloodborne came out were completely fake. The "translated" articles had no valid sources whatsoever, and were in completely broken english. In fact half of these super reliable articles weren't even articles at all, just "leaked photos" with horrible quality. From then on the rumor just spread everywhere as fact that there would be a beast transformation feature for players.
***** nah, thats the excuse people started using when it was implied that there was cut content regarding the transformation. Miazaki even said very early on in development that the player would have a disease, and you would have to make some serious choices about taking an antidote or keeping it for later, due to it having "side effects", creating a tension that isnt in the final game.
it was never said that you would transform into a beast, but it was heavily implied when the game was first announced, and the beasthood mechanic is very poorly implemented in the game.
Add that to the fact that the online features are very shallow compared to other Souls games, and its evident that something was lost in the process.
They also said that the online would be seamless, with you finding other players without warning.
How cool would it be to have hunters invade you cause you were transforming?
+Hattori Hanzo personally i don't think it's implied within that quote you got from miyazaki, i think it's people searching for something that isn't there. at the end of the day there's no use bickering over it. even if it was "cut content", it seems like you only see that term as a bad thing. content being cut from a game is usually because said content doesn't work or can't be implemented smoothly in the game that the developers wanted to create.
***** im not saying cut content is bad, im saying there is cut content. Bloodborne is the only game in the souls series where the online does seem to be simply there for the sake of it, and not connected to the lore and story in some way ( as far as we know), and that there seems to have been a good reason to have it before the game was near finished.
You’d think that the MP would be able to rip the ability to “wake back up” in the dream away from us if we try to run from her during a fight. But I guess maybe the MP wasn’t omniscient. Either that, or we were powerful enough to force a way out?
Thoughts on Gerhman dropping a hunters mark upon subsequent victories*
"Most unexpected bells since GOT season 8."
In the new Dark Souls 3, there is a giant bell that brings back old Lords of the Flame to life. Just wanted to bring that to the table, probably a self-reference to Bloodborne.
Hi redgrave! Love your work! While Ive shared your opinion that the online functionality makes no sense story wise, I like to think that the ringing of the bells isn't calling hunters from other worlds, but rather, hunters in the city. They hear your bell and come running.
I get the bold hunters mark to drop from those crawling enemies in the sewer area of yharnam, the ones that are missing they're legs and look half rotten. Dunno if that's anything significant or not but I've got that item from them quite frequently.
One idea that I thought would have been cool to implement in terms of online play would be a Vagrant-like mechanic where if a player dies with a large amount of echoes and then fails to reach them before dying again, it can have the chance to spawn a creature made of these forlorn echoes in another players world.
While cool, I also think this would be used to grief early game to make up for the lack of invasions before level 30, where players would get a bunch of echoes and kill themselves in Central Yharnam over and over, hoping they spawn a creature that kills a new player. I suspect this has happened to me, as I've encountered Vagrants in DS Remastered on highly sus locations that made those locations much more difficult.
But hey, give something cool to this community with online features and its bound to be ruined.
Obviously set up a patreon. I most likely wouldn't give you any money and I still think you should. I don't believe anybody feels obliged to pay, but it makes it so that if/when they do, they're able to do so hassle-free. One of the things that's put me off donating to streamers before is that I only wanted to donate a small amount, but also didn't want to prompt the donation notification as if I was trying to show off generosity and force a verbal recognition of my donation. A similar thing might apply when comparing patreon donations with asking for your paypal.
Brilliant videos by the way, keep up the great work.
We Asian players thought the bells were from Christian mass, cuz the bells in the game resembled the sanctus bells. I found it quite ironic that we tried to explaining this element in the opposite position.
BTW, the bells in different sizes in not the same thing in east Asian culture. The cute little ones like the bell ringers hold are called 鈴 (suzu in Japanese) which are more considered toys or instruments. The giant ones are called 钟 (zhong in Chinese), which are mostly related to Buddhism ceremonies.
Hey Redgrave love your videos, and have just started to read the Paleblood Hunt...love the game and your insights have certainly added to it, thanks...richys6xx
I've always kinda just thought of the NPC summons in Bloodborne as you meeting up with that character as an NPC, and fighting them as a boss together. They just made them summons so the NPC wouldn't die and their quest wouldn't end. Think Siegward in Dark Souls 3.
Thank god, I thought you were done with this! Thank god you're still doing this. I fucking love ya mate.
Why can't it be both? About the Bells and The Lamp? The Lamp attracts the messengers and the bells are the "Highway" for travel, we need the messengers at point A & B but we the need the bells to Zero in on where we're going.
Maybe the lamps incense summons the messengers, and breaking the lamp itself keeps them from "using the bells"?
The only thing against the idea that the one reborn isn't special is the fact that it's name is "The one reborn" which seems to imply something special
I think there is an arguement made for the multiplayer being canonical. the bell women outside of the labrynth appear in both the waking and nightmare dreams without the player spawning one by using our bacon bell. So those bell women are meant to be there for every play regardless of if they want to take part in multiplayer or not. Note that the bell women in the nightmare's are the ones who summon player hunters.
However It is important to realise that the bell women in the nightmare's have more similarities to the ones in the labrynth then the ones in the hidden village. The bell women of the labrynth spawn enemies who essentially are aggrod on you the moment they are summoned, this can be annoying, but I thinks it's important to realise that the only other places in the game where enemies aggro on you from great distance, as if their purpose is to hunt you, is the dungeon bell rooms, and the players who are beckoned in the nightmare's by bell women.
The concept of time is a pointless though when we look at the dream scapes of bloodborne, but I don't think it's too far of a stretch to think of players getting summoned by you or bell women, are remnants beings from other places in time, space, whatever uncomprehendable place.
This is a really loose connection, but i kinda thought that the sinister-bell summoning was kinda like birth, or maybe rebirth. They get dragged into this world, blood covered, and once the Bell maidens die, the blood washes off them. Kinda seems like the bell maidens are sort of umbilical cords, who once they are killed, no longer support and protect what they brought into the world, making them "mature" and lose their protective coating.
I believe Dark Beast Paarl also drops a Bold Hunters Mark after the first time you beat him. This gives credence to your Darkbeast video discussion who he likely was.
Theory - what if the reason all the raised enemies in ya har'gul look like central Yharnamites is because they're the enemies you've killed up until that point brought back over and over?
freaking love your cat
His shirt looks really cool. I wonder what's on it.
who else wants a bloodborne anime?
or better yet, a live-action one.
Miss your videos, man.
Maybe, and this might sound weird or incorrect, but what if the lantern acts as a power source for the bells? We know there isn't magic, but things that act as a bridge between worlds need power and, as we've seen with The One Reborn, power can be generated via multiple individuals or, in Logarius case with the spirits he's tossing at us, one person. So, as strange as it sounds, does anyone think it's possible that the burning of whatever fuel in the lanterns is giving the bells the power to act as a bridge and that they're made to act as a bridge to and from the Hunter's Dream only?
When it comes to bell sounds, I believe it's a stock sound effect
Thanks for another video! Can't wait for your big project and the episode about Brador whenever your decide to release them.
There's a small bell around the neck of the Crowfeather Garb that Eileen wears. I thought that this might just be a trinket she wears to show her connection to the Dream, given the bells on the lanterns. However, I'm not 100% sure on that. Any thoughts?
The Church Giants and Servants also wear bells. They are also pale and have black eyes, as if they were dead. I thought their bells served a practical purpose, such as warning townsfolk on the night of the hunt that they were coming through, so you better get inside your homes or you'll get butchered.
Alternatively, is it possible that the bells are what's keeping these possibly undead Servants and Giants animated? Could the Healing Church have found a way to reanimate the dead in some lesser capacity after exploring the Chalice Dungeons and coming in contact with the Pthumerian Bell Ringers? I think there are some holes in this kind of theory myself, but any thoughts?
easy: the Messangers ring the lamp bells, like they do the church gate. the broken lamp has no messangers. there were there in the beginning, only cause u strayed from the path i guess, so u can return.
I dunno what it is, but you look good in that hat.
Make sure you ask me for help with Audacity and/or video editing, if you need it, for that big project you're working on.
+Aegon of Astora I appreciate it, thanks.
I only think the online is relevant to the story when discussing the Beckoning, Small Resonant, and Sinister Bells. The bells themselves are what's significant.
Merry Xmas redgrave. great vid.
What if the Madmen are swinging the corpses of Cainhurst or even ancient Pthumerian Hunters with Yharnam's blood.
angry jooooooooeeeee angry joe is there
I would really be interested in your opinion about what happened to fishing village.Is it the true version of the village or the nightmare version(propably nightmare because you can see yharnam under water),is it far away from yharnam(or does it even exist in the real world)is it set in past and what happened to the villagers themselves.
Also notice the bells hanging on the lantern spawn points. Being the point you wake up upon dying. I don't recall you pointing this out. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas in 2018
Happy holidays! Hope you don't get a sinister resonance ;)
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best. Lets saw for example we were Hunters in a massive city, I doubt we see the entirety of the city and we are going to be ganked by too many monsters that one, two, or even five people could not defeat. This after all is an over run city, absent of cell phone technology how would we quickly let others hopefully in the vicinity know we are in deep shit, please come help? Well....you would be noisy, a shout may not be enough, you'd ring a primitive bell and hopefully draw your fellow hunters to your location. I know you're saying wouldn't that make it worse by drawing more Beasties to you? Well yeah, but in a desperation crunch when you're being swarmed, you might not have a choice.
12:38 loregasm
Your One Reborn theory seems super sketchy to me. I’m not convinced there’s any evidence that enemies can just wander from the Nightmare lands into reality. Everything we see seems to either result from the beast plague, church experimentation (Celestial Emissary) or from things the Church brought out of the chalice dungeons intentionally (like the Church Giants and Ebrietas). I always grouped the Chime Maidens in the latter category, along with the kidnappers and potentially the eye collectors. The kidnappers actively work for Mensis, so it’s not unreasonable to think the Chime Maidens might too. And the corpses melting into the walls really seems like evidence of a particular cataclysmic event, not something we have any reason to believe the Chime Maidens could or would do on their own.
The thing that got me thinking about bells was the Surgery Altar. I was kind of hoping you’d talk about the Healing Church’s use of bells in this episode, because it seems really important but I haven’t been able to make much of it. They’re nice big shiny bells, one in the surgery altar, in addition to the ones hanging on the necks of the Church Servants and Giants. My first thought was that these were what they used to summon them from the chalice dungeons or wherever they exist, but there’s no real evidence for that. It seems like the bell-ringer in the Surgery Altar must be summoning something from some other plane, but I don’t know what that would be. Phantasms? The idea occurs to me that this could be how they create the Church Giants, but that doesn’t seem strongly supported either. On their own, the bells on the Giants could just be a sign of the hunt, to get people off the streets. But the Surgery Altar suggests it’s more important somehow. Plus, they are specifically gold, as opposed to the Choir Bell, which is silver and doesn’t cross planes.
Hope your doing well
Keep doing what you're doing Redgrave. Love your insights. Did you know Eileen has a small bell necklace she wears? Possibly relevant!
Do you have a patreon or something I can donate to?
+David Drury Yeah giants and church servants wear them as well.Probably just Church's brand.
Ok so i know im late to the party and all but i had b.b since release and finished a bunch of runthroughs but i am still learning alot of the universe and all and i only heard of redgrave today so i got some snacks tuned in and i was hooked....there is two things im still wondering about after watching this episode on bells. What connection would you make between the cthulu monsters in the dlc seeing as the use i would say like a bell enchantment on their weapon and the next im curious about is the bell chiming in yahrnam every now and again.
What about the bells hanging from the necks of certain enemies?
If the bells isn't connected to the lamp why do he have to fire them on to use them? :O
Oh man, I've been so annoyed with Yahar'gul after defeating Rom. It just didn't add up. And all the theories about Mensis making TOR always sounded like hogwash (they're not in league with the bell ringers, they're already sucked into the nightmare before the TOR summoning, they don't care about giving a great one a body they just want insight,...). He just felt like a mandatory bossfight that didn't make sense. This theory is the first one that fits, great!
I get the sense that queen Yarnham maybe fought back against Mensis with her Shadows and Pthumerian servants (bellringers?), especially since the Yahar'gul boars and the Shadows are enemies among themselves. I never quite got what she wants from you concerning Mergo though. People claim that she bows to you when you "release" the baby from the Wet Nurse/Mensis but I just don't see her bowing, but instead collapsing in despair. Honestly it's not a bow at all to me. That leaves the idea that perhaps you killed the formless wet nurse sent by formless Oedon to protect their child, and she collapses because her baby died. But then why didn't she attack you at first or why wasn't she with the baby? That's a big question for me. For one thing I don't think the wet nurse would be in league with Mensis: either it had always been there in the childs nightmare after it died and Mensis joined them, or Mensis created the nightmare dragging the child along and Oedon sent the wet nurse to protect it. Anyway I'm in the dark regarding the whole Mensis-Yarnham-Oedon relationship....
Can you post the lore livestream? I heard about it but I couldn't get time off to watch it :(
Bruh magic is everywhere. How do we enter nightmare realms? It’s certainly not science fiction.
I'd like to cut in. The common misconception for the Christian hell is that it's a lake of fire, but it may not have anything to do with fire if at all. It's more of a realm of absolute pain that none has felt before.
Sorry just wanted to say that
just asking... sometimes, while you're playing in yharnam, you hear a bell ringing time to time. Like a church bell... is there something about that or it's nothing?
Wow angry joe got long hair now? and sounds like a nice person?
Self note: continue 8:30
Dude, you look somewhat like AngryJoe with long hair. That's not supposed to be an insult, btw.
You're so kawaii with the hat
What if the bells on the lamp are what call the messengers to take you back to the dream? Lighting the lamp connects that area to the dream, and ringing the bells on the lamp tells the messengers that you want to go back to the dream. If the lamp isn't lit, the connection is absent or severed considering the broken lamp in yahargul later in the game. I know that you kinda addressed that idea, but I think it's a nice spin that makes the bells on the lamps more useful. It's all conjecture of course.
As much of a disappointment that your One Reborn theory seems to be, it's certainly what it looks like. I always thought that the School of Mensis created this creature and then the bellmaidens summoned it from the Nightmare, but sadly there isn't quite enough evidence to substantiate the idea that Mensis had anything to do with its conception in addition to the Brain of Mensis.
And regarding your addendum to the Bold Hunter's Mark discussion, it's important to note that in NG+ and beyond, every badge you already have is replaced by a Bold Hunter's Mark which means you'll get one from Paarl in addition to Eileen, Djura, and Gehrman. I haven't checked recently but you'll probably also get one from Alfred and Annalise, and I doubt we could consider either of them current or past hunters of the dream. I personally doubt that story-wise they're actually handing you these hunter's marks, but rather they're simply replacements for the badges you already have. It's an attractive idea though, and one I'll always consider.
The Pthumerian bell maidens certainly seem to be trying to give Mergo a physical form with The One Reborn. However it's hard to say whether or not that mass of corpses they brought to life was even remotely successful in resurrecting Mergo or not.
+Brendan J I thought there were other NPCs and bosses that gave Bold Hunter Marks in NG+. Thanks for pointing it out!
Where's Redgrave?? Is he okay
I thought the Arcane powers could be considered magic ?
I always thought of Arcane as the Hunter's own (ability is too strong a word) relationship with the cosmic, reality-warping elements within Bloodborne's universe. The more "in tune" with the cosmos the Hunter is, the more they can bend reality's rules.
But Brador?
If only heaven and hell existed lol love me some fairy tales 😁
Gotta be honest with yourself man, at many times from soft just laughs at ppl putting all this mental energy into things that are just objects placed in a game, don't need mental gymnastics 😂🤣
Don't fuck with the waifu fanboys over here :D
I really like your video, you have so much love and passion for bloodborne compared to that guy vaati. He's stupid, empty, he's a fucking thief and he doesn't bring anything new to the discussion.