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The Little Things in Yharnam: Darkbeasts
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2015
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It's interesting to note that if the darkbeasts are the pinnacle of the scourge transformation they gain the power of Lightining, which all the kin of the cosmos are vulnerable to. So the kin of the cosmos maybe vulnerable to the strongest of the beast, therefore their guardians are all bestowed with fire (see watchdog and keeper). Or it could be that the old gods are afraid of the hunters, because the strongest beasts come from the transformed hunters. What do you think about this? (Also why the beasts get a damage type that is the strongest against those whose blood made them this way?)
throwing the cat always gets me.
0:50 - "You don't care about that."
I know it's been five years but I care about the people that make content I care about. I hope you're doing well today Redgrave.
Interesting, I like the idea that the Old Blood is the catalyst that awakens the dormant beasthood in humans rather than just being something that mutates biologically, like the T-Virus in Resident Evil. Kind of gives a new meaning to Willem's adage; "We are born of the Blood..."
Dont know if anyone has mentioned this here or it has been talked about before. But Darkbeast Parrls face (or his skull really) looks rather human in contrast to the rest of him as well as the Abhorrent Beasts faces. So the Darkbeasts are perhaps older Abhorrent Beasts keeped alive buy the beast blood. Blood is make within the bones from bone marrow and thats why they dont die naturally
27:14 you called it, the beast's embrace rune does exactly that, only without lightning
Bricklord Redgrave even mentions "embracing it."
Indeed he did. I would assume the lighting part comes some years after perfecting the usage of the rune, other than that the PC hunter with the rune equiped looks really like a miniature abhorrent beast, even the moves and beastly stance we assume after attacking hunched over the exact same way, ha, makes you wonder did one fromsofts guys saw this and said the hell the mad lad makes a good point let's work on the theory, or just, he was that insightful? Every now and then I come back this videos, inspiring to say the least.
I also found the Abhorent Beast's dialogue eerily insightful. I had no idea he could be Izzy. I made an argument in his defense in that he is eating people to survive. Every person he kills - he eats, which is in contrast to simply hunting beasts. I thought that "...I didn't ask for this..." might have some kind of connection to his bandages, implying that there may have been some kind of procedure that either yielded unexpected results or caused more then what he asked for, something given to him by his friends, an experiment.
Also I really like your presentation of the idea of evolution/devolution. This is something that struck me as a revelation after watching Aegon of Astora's video when he decided not to engage enemies in Old Yharnam. I finally realized what that line from Ghernam meant "You can even use the doll...if you wish"(sorry not word for word). I thought there is no way it means what most people think it means. And then after watching ENB do a no leveling run and Aegon's run with no killing I realized that the only way for us to use the doll is to level up, Ghernam basically says we don't have to level up, he is saying we don't have to kill the beasts and consume their echoes, meaning we have a choice and having a choice and being in control of one's actions is what makes us more human. I believe there is an almost exact definition somewhere in psychology that implies something similar; having control over one's primal anger and fear is an enormous accomplishment.
Now of course from gameplay perspective, not killing enemies is not as much fun for some people (although I enjoyed my attempt at it) but I am sure there is a deeper appreciation to that approach somewhere.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. Thanks for another great video.
+Dima Parachute i really understand you point , havinf the choise to not kill them, but you can t finish the game without having to kill. So basicly that implies you have no choice but to kill, you have no choice but to use the doll, you have no choice but to lvl up too. Anyone finished the game without lvling up i wonder, without using the doll?
Nick Teiss
Yes, it's possible. EpicNameBro finished without leveling, he is trying to do it without dying. You can skip all the fights and just firght the boss.
did he get a specific achievement?
It would be right...in Undertale. There, the choice is to kill or not to kill. Bloodborne is a cosmic horror story. You have no choice other them to kill people and become a monster. You only the choice of which path to walk - the path of blood, beasthood, and power, to become a beast, or the path of eyes, insight and knowledge, to become a kin. Or you can choose the third path, try to balance the opposites, balance between insight and beasthood, rationality and emotionalism, thoughtfulness and impulsiveness, to be something between a beast and a kin...a human.
Really fascinating stuff, as always. I was so happy to see that it was 30+ minutes in length, and that time flew by in what felt like ~10.
Here are some notes I made while watching:
- Good luck with the move, dude. Even if you need to take a few weeks off, do it. We’ll all still be here, and so will the lore discussion!
- On bolt paper availability: Unsurprisingly, the Yahar’gul hunters guarding the entrance to Yahar’gul also drop bolt paper. Of course, one of those hunters also wields a Tonitrus (a friend of Archibald, perhaps?).
- Poor Calvin, he just wants in on the lore discussion!
- Yes, Force is the DkS1+2 equivalent of Beast Roar
- Wow, I never connected the “curse of Yharnam” line to Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen. That damn double-meaning
- I’ve actually grown to really like the Chalice Dungeons myself. But I think that's something which, in some cases, requires a deep appreciation of the lore significance of the Underground Labyrinth. It can be 'grindey', sure, but it's a fascinating place.
- Thanks for the shout-out, and the kind words - but I too am just a shlub, it’s just that I’m a shlub with a capture card, a decent microphone, and probably too much time on his hands =)
Thanks, once again, for another great video!
+Aegon of Astora Thanks a lot for your comments! Yeah you can find the bolt paper from a few other places, one of the witches in Hemwick can drop it, so can the Yahar'gul hunters and the Snatchers, but since all three of those are linked with Yahar'gul I sort of thought it would be unnecessary to bring it up.
+Redgrave Hey Redgrave, don't know if you'll reply or are even interested at this point, but here's a cool thing that probably confirms your theory on Izzy being the Suspicious Beggar.
The headgear he wears is the *Harrowed Hood*, and it is worn by certain healing church hunters who tried to pass unnoticed in the city to neutralize anyone with early signs of the beast scourge. But what is interesting is this piece of the description:
*"It just goes to show, the corner beggar is not always who he seems."*
This pretty much *confirms* that the Suspicious Beggar is not just some guy, he is a Healing Church Hunter. And with the addition of all the information you have in the video, it makes it all the more likely for him to be Izzy.
Not to mention that all the time he spent observing those afflicted by the scourge, would inevitably make him curious about it.
I disagree that the Beggar is Izzy. When you fight him, he says that he didn't ask for this. "This" being implied to be his beasthood. It's unlikely that Izzy would turn himself into a beast and then say that he didn't want it. Izzy is also irreverent, meaning that he/she doesn't take serious topics seriously. The Beggar seams quite serious and passionate about this serious issue.
Ok.. so I might be entirely wrong about this, but if i remember correctly, doesn't electricity do more damage to Kin/Eldritch type beings? So wouldn't that make Darkbeasts the natural predator to most Kin? as in the beast plague is trying to evolve against what's causing the changes to everyone? just a small bit of my speculation to this odd cause and effect within Bloodborne.
ButcherGod Actually, what i remember from a certain theory that was either redgrave's or JSF, the beast scourge was created by the Great One we fight at the end of the game upon using the 3 cords.
The Great One had created them to eliminate any other Great One's if i recall correctly.
Pretty good attempt on my name.
+Leo Alvarado Happy to see I wasn't the only one to struggle with it :)
+Leo Alvarado Sorry bro, I forgot to look it up before making the video and I was just like aw fuck it =/
+Redgrave DotA Haha it's totally alright, dude. It happens all the time.
+Leo Alvarado the struggle native english speakers have with romance languages proper name is good fun, man ahahah :)
@@IRON1I7 ALVA-RAW-DOH didn't know people have such a hard time pronouncing names lol
Also, the only hunters we see using the tonitrus and the tiny tonitrus are Yahar'gul hunters. The black garb hunter before Yahar'gul next to the Grand Cathedral uses the tonitrus, the black garb hunter near Hypogeon Gaol uses the tiny tonitrus, and both of these things are found in Yahar'gul.
So I know this video is pretty old now but I had an interesting thought about abhorrent beasts. So the definition of abhorrent is inspiring disgust or loathing. I think this is why the beggar is saying he didn't ask for this, he knows exactly what he is and hates it (which I think may be evidence that he in fact isn't Izzy). Maybe dark beasts are "undead" because they were abhorrent beasts at one point but once their humanity died they no longer had the capacity to hate what they were. Without the feeling of abhorrence they transform into a dark beast becoming the ultimate form of beast hood.
"LEO, MY MAN"
I know this is over a year old and I don’t know whether you’ve changed your mind over who Irreverent Izzy is since I haven’t read The Paleblood Hunt, but I think Irreverent Izzy is one of the 3 NPCs encountered in Yahargul, right next to the broken lamp. The Beast Claw states “Beastly weapon wielded by Irreverent Izzy,” and one of the NPCs there is seen using it, along with Beast Roar.
The Beast Claw even states that it is made from the bones of a Darkbeast, and it is Yahargul from which the Darkbeast managed to escape from.
Man is the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
I think the darkbeasts have SOME relationship with the Great Ones. I'm certain there's some significance to the fact that Kin are weak to bolt.
If there is indeed a relation between them, I doubt it's anything friendly. Bolt/electricity *is* a weakness of Kin-type enemies, after all. I don't think any Great One would intentionally bestow something which, by Redgrave's theory, stands on the other side of the spectrum of human evolution a weapon to combat them.
However, it's interesting how this connects to Oedon when we consider Redgrave's video about Oedon and blood as its medium. If Darkbeasts are the end product of the Beast Scourge, and the Beast Scourge was started by blood, then maybe there is a relation between the Darkbeasts and the Great Ones, as you said.
it' always important to remember that we have no idea if the great ones work against each other
one great one could be the reason for the scourge while another fixes it, even if both have no idea what they are actually doing
@@omnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom3831 All we know is that Kos/Kosm cursed Yarnam blood with beastly scourge, the moon presence is actively beckoned to keep the hunt/control on the scourge on. Oedon hust seems to want a child as of yet. So all we know that one great one hexed us while another "blessed" us.
it's because they needed to be weak to something. there needed to be some resistance and some weakness, that's just how these games work. and when the devs looked at kin, what weakness would they have picked? they look like jellyfish, all full of water. so they're weak to electricity. like squirtle is weak to thunderbolt. same reason they're weak to thrust, they look like jellyfish and you'd expect to be able to kill a jellyfish by poking it with a needle or electrocuting it. makes more sense than making the blue dudes weak to fire, or making the characters most associated with arcane weak to arcane. that said, i think some of the kin are relatively weak to arcane, so who knows for sure.
VVabsa you’re wrong I’m just about every pont in that comment. Kos was never said to be responsible for the beastly plague nor was that Inferred even remotely. The curse she put on the hunters was to trap blood thirsty hunters in the Nightmare. The beastly plague was VERY obviously already in effect. Hence there being hunters for Kos to curse in the first place. Why would there be hunters if there was no beasts? The curse from Kos wasn’t even activated until the old hunters killed her or defiled her corpse in fishing hamlet
I love the Chalice Dungeons personally. It took me awhile to warm up to them, but once I buried myself in their potential, I was lost for weeks. I explored the crap out of them, and it took me awhile to return to the surface and continue the game's story.
Alliander Black 2 years old comment, but same here! When I first started in the dungeons, I was like, “why would I even try this?! So difficult.”
But since then, I’ve spent almost the rest of my time in dungeons. So satisfying getting through each one!
It's almost like the Old Blood actualizes the tendencies that already exist within those who recieve it.
The majority of people, who are pre-disposed to devolution, become beasts as they rage through the streets in a mob. Meanwhile, the people who obsess with the cosmos and eldritch secrets slowly evolve into Great Ones and lose all connection to the world.
They evolve into kin, not great ones.
I also quite enjoyed the Chalice dungeons.......except for fighting amygdala with reduced health and damage output in a tiny tiny arena.....and you need to fight him to get to Queen Yharnam herself.
Israel means "he who struggles with God"
The Suspicious Beggar encounter is probably the most awe-inspiring moment in any Souls game for me.
Does anyone else seem to think that there are different strains of the scourge? Seems like Old Yharnam, Cainurst, and Yharnam proper all just have different strains with different symptoms.
The beasts in Old Yharnam are probably different because of the ashen blood, probably.
The vilebloods are definitely created by a special sort of blood, which Alfred described as corrupted blood.
I want to know why Henrick has the set that is best fitted to fight the Dark Beasts and Abhorrent beasts (as well as silver beasts, but that's less important). He's pretty old, potentially old enough to have been through the original round of blood ministration. That means that he would have witnessed the burning of old Yharnam. That means he could have been very key to cleaning up whatever mess Archibald made. I say mess, because it really seems to me that Archibald might have actually been kind of a dick and experimenting on people in the Underground Prison.
I'll bet that there were two ways people reacted to the Dark Beasts. We have Archibald who wanted to recreate their electricity and Irreverent Izzy (who might be related to those Heretical Powder Keg Hunters) who wanted to emulate their bestial nature. Killing the Dark Beast also turns Djura neutral to you, and he was a former member of the Powder Keg Hunters. Seeing how close Izzy might have been to the beasts without losing himself to the beast blood might have forced Djura to have questions. Hell, it's even possible that the Suspicious Beggar acquired his ability to transform from an experiment by Archibald. Djura and the Beggar seem to have at least superficially similar views.
We could assume that Djura, Henrick, and the Beggar all lived through the burning of old Yharnam. Turn your attention to the Charred Hunter Garb- the only other peice of clothing that mentions the scent of blood being upon it aside from Gascoigne's. There is a difference- one says singed, the other says beast. But, if you burned a beast I imagine its burned blood will smell the same as any other's. A young Gascoigne and Middle-aged Henrick could have been a duo at the time of old Yharnam burning. It could be that Henrick was the one responsible for putting down Paarl with Gascoigne's help. And it could also be that Irreverant Izzy was the one that changed Djura's heart.
Given that they are called the Heretical Powder Kegs, what are the odds that during the burning of old Yharnam Djura and Izzy were horrified at what was occurring, having come to see the scourge of beasts as something entirely different. After all, if Izzy was able to take on and use the powers of a Dark Beast, but yet managed to stay sane (or sane enough) and we assume that the both of these two wielded some significant influence over the rest of the Powder Kegs, they could have lead a defection. Hence, heretical. I doubt that the church was very concerned with how their weapons killed beasts- only that the weapons killed beasts.
Redgrave: giving great, in-depth analysis of Bloodborne lore
Calvin: I’m about to destroy this man’s whole career
It's worth noting that Irreverent Izzy is kind of a mistranslation. The Japanese word used paints Izzy as an apostate, so he went against the Healing Church by making the Beast Claws.
3 year old comment, but it was just a poor understanding of the meaning of the word by Redgrave here rather than translation. The lack of reverence: ie. for authority, power, religion... (or convention, in his understanding/example)
On Irreverent Izzy: A lot of people seem to be referring to Izzy as male. I always assumed it was a shortened form of Isabella. If she was indeed irreverent, a bit of a clown among hunters, Izzy seems like it would fit as a bit of a silly name. That's just me, though.
+Liam Nelson I was going to point out that too. Izzy could also be short for Elizabeth and or even Isaac.
+Liam Nelson I had the same thought.
Liam Nelson In french it clearly states it's a man. The adjective "Irreverent" (Insolent in fr) is in masculine form. My 2 cents
Interesting, but the thing is Japanese has indistinct pronouns and French is quite gendered isn't it? I always assumed Izzy was female, there's no other female hunters.
Schemilix indeed. Same thing happened with Pharis is Dark Souls. She’s female, yet since Japanese is vague, the translated her items with male pronounce
My topic got answered! Thanks so much for this one.
I remember you suggesting that the stage and lore was drawing upon the workings of the body for inspiration (types of blood, their purpose etc). so the idea that Abhorrent beasts triumph over their beastly nature by force of will is awfully attractive.
If we are feeling reductionist, we could say that our nerves are conduits through which our whims and desires are communicated to our body, those signals being electrical in nature. The bones of the Darkbeasts are held together by static electricity, and when it dissipates they collapse. The abundance of blue sparks about these individuals are indicative of the strength of their will, so strong that they can continue to operate what's left of their corporeal form even after death.
I think Micolash would have been a candidate for becoming a Darkbeast as evidenced by his control over the puppets in the dream, and the fact that his physical body was long dead.
I wonder if this is another iteration of the Faith/Intellect rivalry we saw in Demon Souls. Willpower (mastery of the body/beastly nature) vs Insight (the knowledge to ascend beyond your current flawed body to a new, more tentacle-y one).
I always thought that the bloodletting beast is the "final form" of the scourge, which is interesting since it looks like a giant version of the abhorrent beast
I'm highly fascinated with the dark beasts, specifically Paarl. You have made me greatly content knowing a 30+ MIN VIDEO is up for them. If only we could enter the World of Bloodborne in Archibald's eyes
hey Red, just wanted to update you on the child sized coffins in bloodborne. as you said the only ones we find are in the orphanage, but I did find one in the cathedral ward. it is located in the small area where the unused shortcut from the great bridge, and the close to the church giant with the ball and chain. the casket is by the carriage to the left of the ogre and the crows...
Really late to the party, but I’m bingeing all your videos now that I’ve finally finished your essay! You’re amazing! Haven’t gotten to the end of your videos but it looks like you’re not doing them anymore so thanks for leaving these ones up all these years later for people like me to enjoy!!
Hey, late to the party, but throwing it out there. What if the human form of the suspicious beggar isn't actually his form? He says "I didn't ask for this" maybe he meant that beastly form. When you strike the beggar, the human form just fades away and the abhorrent beast is standing there. Also, the damage you put on the beggar does not carry over. Maybe the human form is an illusion, a hidden ability of beasts, and he really can't change back. He delved too deep into his beastly self and can't turn back .
tought about that too:
"[Oh yharnam, its happening again...]" This could be referring to the city and the nights of the hunt every then and a while. Nothing unusually.
But if its actually about the queen, he (the beggar) has to know her. Not just that, he has to have seen the plague before and just emerged from the dungeons disguised as an killed madman.
But is there a meaning though? For the rest of the game/story?
PS: In opposition to that is, that paarl seems to be a human, transformed to a dark beast. Or wa he just a beggarlike captive?
ah: i forgot about laurence, who seems to have transformed into a darkbeast. Seems as if it would not work out that way....
"Thats how you get tinnitrus."
I’m so sad that I had never heard your name before until just now, all these years after you’ve last posted :(
Love your way of explaining this stuff
Poor Calvin get thrown two times in this video. =)
Billion years out of date with this but playing through Bloodborne again and found this after falling down a lore hole and seeing other people with vastly different conclusions or speculations to mine.
2¢ (probably not the best place for it but fuck it, I've been up way too long as is) - Blood is power. Power transforms. The vessel for the power is important, the source of the power is important, the environment of the filled or filling vessel is important. I started thinking about it when I hit the research hall and was surrounded by the nightmare echoes of the 'perfected' emissaries in their earliest crude forms, because the frenzy-headed singing eyeblobs that show up in the Frontier/Mensis Nightmares (and intrude at the end of the Hunter's Nightmare) are basically the same thing - probably the same source - but cast into a deeper nightmare that attempts to tap two veins at once.
Anyway, huge digression but that got me to the Darkbeasts. The darkness in Yarnham is one of furtive paranoia and madness and violence coaxed out of man's heart by the almond-headed fear factories crawling invisibly over the city. Loran is different. There's electricity in the air there, a different power to ride the blood and fill willing or unwilling vessels. So a shifting of "strengths" once begun in the blood, perhaps. An adhesion to a separate motive force. Power that can persist through fur and bone as if they were wool and amber. No need for a pulse, no real blood required past the crumbled marrow locked inside (a danger still, as shown or at least believed by the rituals of Hemwick.)
Archibald may have led a church expedition to the curiously ailing Loran along with (probably, or at least) Paarl and Izzy before returning. The collectors bagged some or all of them, and one made it out alive. Whatever the case that experience was still enough to inform elements of Micolash's vision of a new reality before his fatal overreach.
The vessel is man. The source of power is still blood, or at least represented by. The air in Loran would've changed them though. Blood ministration to survive in a long-dead crumbling waste wracked with electrical storms and the bones of fallen beasts that still wore them like skin.
It's a theme well represented cover to cover throughout Bloodborne - the blood changes men, but their environment colors those changes.
Also the collectors fucking HATE electricity.
Just something that occurred to me, felt like I might as well voice it. I now don't think the Beggar is Izzy, for a number of reasons. Basically, from the way he talks, he himself is clearly not a Hunter, which Izzy was. Of course, you could then say that's because he's given up the moniker and no longer considers himself associated with Hunters.
However, the line "I didn't ask for this" makes me feel like he isn't Izzy. Everything about Izzy points to an intense interest in beasts, and it almost seemed like he wanted to be one in some sense. So the fact that not only would he be unhappy with these powers, but claim he never wanted them doesn't fit to me.
+FlubbedPig Look at his headgear. He is wearing the *Harrowed Hood*.
That hood is worn specifically by the hunters that would go unnoticed and there is a very interesting line in its description:
*"It just goes to show, the corner beggar is not always who he seems."*
Also, look at his trousers. He is wearing the *Madmen Leggings*.
These are the leggings of those who would go inside the labyrinths, the ones that belonged to the Healing Church.
This pretty much confirms the link between the Suspicious Beggar and the Hunters of the Church, and makes it likely that he is indeed Izzy.
@@KRIMZONMEKANISM yes, you are right.
31:07 Nah man, I love Loran especially. It has so much unseen history to it, a unique setting and appearance, plus the fights are generally more enjoyable than any other chalice.
Redgrave, you mentioned that being irreverent could be akin to making fun of a tragedy. Well maybe that's exactly what Izzy was doing. The tragedy is the Scourge itself and Izzy making the beast roar and claw could be seen as him/her mocking of embracing this tragedy.
Im many years late but thank you for this series. Your level of Insight is that of a Great One.
I have to warn you man. Your cat is starting to show signs of the scourge lol. Seriously though, thank for all the work you have put into this.
Great stuff, keep it coming. Love it. Btw the Chalices aren't as shitty as people claim. They lack the intricate, well thought out level design of the main areas, but they do add backstory to the game, as well as unlockable secrets like the Ring Of Betrothal and the Yharnam Stone - for those who are dedicated enough to play through everything. They also add a good chunk of gameplay - even though it's pretty much combat only.
Man, I can stare all day at your eyebrows*__*
Also, a lot of good points in the lore.
The thing about the Suspicious Beggar best dialogue that interests me is the part when he says (more or less) "You drink the blood of half the town..." Does it mean that the blood we 'take' from the townspeople is not their vials - we just fill up our own vials with their blood?
Because if the Healing Church is the one that holds a hand on blood ministration - with their blood saints and processes and experiments -, why would he tell us 'half the town'?
+Jezack R i thought it had to do with the blood echoes...?
+smithcubs the thing is, I take that blood echoes are an invisible in-game currency for the sake of mechanics, so why would npcs be even aware of them? I guess it all depends on how are are the characters.
In every souls game, the in-game currency is always canon.
I need to thank you for making this video in your haze, because I had been wondering where the link between humanity lay in Bloodborne, whereas in the souls games it is discussed heavily, thank you very much for that clarification, I believe Miyazaki said he created Darkbeast Paarl as a type of darkbeast that has been there for centuries, basically untouched by anything, and then you as a player stumble along and find this ancient beast slumbering and awaken it. Wreathed in an arcane magic that we as humans, cannot even begin to fathom, albeit Archibalds and Izzy's attempts.
love that you brought up tesla so many of his inventions were stolen or taken credit for,he was a genius even today they are finding relevant inventions he's made
Interesting video, and good luck with Paleblood Hunt 2.
On the subject of the mystery of the Beast Curse, I think it's important to remember Bloodborne's key theme of Lovecraftian evolution, and the fear of such an evolution that is explored throughout. The Healing Church, in its bottomless search for a higher plane of being, distributes the Old Blood to the Yharnam populace. Now, presumably, in addition to healing, there are others who take advantage of the blood's capacity to improve the self, to allow one to 'level up' as it were. This being the case, I think it's clear that both of your positions are true: that the Beast lurks always within, and also that it has been drawn out by the intoxicating desire for the blood, by the Scourge.
In this sense we can see our potential evolution to the state of Great One. The Beasts, perhaps more specifically, the Darkbeasts; undying creatures with powers beyond the mundane. What they lack of course is eyes on the inside, the capacity to process the eldritch truth and to - I assume - maintain a sense of self and more importantly, resist or in fact feal no fear at the prospect of morphing into a terrifying monster, and so they fail to escape the control of the will of Greater creatures that now flows in their blood. It's the same fear that underlines all Monster horror and Zombies as well - the idea of the self being swallowed up by a lurking sinister presence.
And what do we face at the end of the game? A hideous wolf-like bestial Great One. A creature with a form like ours-ascended, powers beyond our ken, and the conscious ability to manipulate and govern The Nightmare. But not something any human would willingly choose to become. I believe that the Moon Prescence is a previous Hunter ascended to Great One status successfully, and that if we are wise, and brave, we too might be next.
It's interesting to note that in this way Bloodborne is a thematic counterpoint to Dark Souls. Dark Souls is about the eldritch horror of entropy and resisting the fearful certainty of Death, loss of self, decay. Bloodborne explores the same themes, but with an emphasis on Creation, on new frontiers, on a monstrous sort of optimism. It could well be for the best that we eventually Ascend to Great Ones, leaving our pain and fear behind, but save for the Darkwraiths, few would accept that premise in Lordran, where to Hollow is to lose everything we value in favour of a long dark nothing.
I think there are two paths to ascension - to beasts, through blood, and to kin, through insight. Not sure about where the great ones are in this equation, though.
And the presence can't be a hunter (unless it is a eldritch, pthumerian hunter), because the presence is what initially created the hunters and the dream.
We find a Darkbeast in Loran Chalice, which could mean to believe that Darkbeasts originate in Loran (scourge of the beast started in Loran) and that Archibald and co. captured it and experimented on it.
Loran Silverbeasts and the Abhorrent Beasts also have bolt attacks so it's not such a bad possibility.
Ah yes, the strongest trick weapon: Occam's Razor
Forgive me if someone below has suggested this (I'm not gonna sit and go through all the comments):
The bit about the Darkbeast escaping was especially interesting and made me think of this. Archibald had only found parts of powerful (abhorrent) beast corpses, and like Izzy he was fascinated by them, specifically for Archibald it was the sparks that intrigued him. When his friend Paarl transformed into an abhorrent beast and had to be put down by Archbald/Mensis, it gave Archibald the opportunity to experiment (Dr Frankenstein style) on the complete corpse of an abhorrent beast for the first time. Taking his research on the sparks he'd been fascinated by, which he'd been able to control to some extent in applying to innate objects like the tonitrus and bolt paper, and then applying it to the corpse of Paarl created the Darkbeast Paarl we encounter, who then escaped the prison cell/experimentation lair he was held within.
*Perhaps the place is only called the graveyard of the Darkbeast as it's where the body now rests, and with Old Yarnham's population succumbing to the ashen blood and being hunted the populace shunned the place. As for the hunters that burned Old Yarnham, they didn't bother with the place as Paarl seemed both dead (he is skeletal after all), and for fear of infection themselves.
*As for the Loran Darkbeast in the chalice dungeon, well the corpse of an Abhorrent beast laying dormant for millennia in Loran (the most ancient looking dungeon with its sandy and dust covered aesthetic), the dungeon engulfed in electricity and decay, could potentially create a Darkbeast naturally given enough time.
I'm guessing there's probably a bunch of inconsistencies in here as I'm not fact checking item descriptions or anything before writing this. And I'm not expecting anyone to say "wow, he's right", just a thought that occurred while watching this very good video and thought perhaps there's something to the idea that others can refine and make something more concrete with.
no idea if anything's right but we cant assume that it's wrong :)
Fantastic video mate. Love the enthusiasm and the intellectual passion. My take was that Darkbeasts are simply undead beasts. I remember Darkbeast Paarl was skeletal, being the equivalent of a human skeleton to a living human. But I like your take that electricity is the power of mankind, which makes sense since it harms celestials more than anything else, and inversely Arcane which celestial energy harms humanity more than anything.
darkbeasts interest me as they did with archibald mainly because they actually seem to be intelligent, and possibly capable of becoming some kind of seperate society, own clothing, own culture, and heck, maybe there's been a darkbeast that was a hunter before... well, the hunt that our character is caught up in (i know this may not be true, cos the human hunters would most likely kill any beast on sight but still)
These videos are awesome just unfiltered Bloodborne lore talk for 30+ minutes you love to see it
Are you are a literature lecturer? Wish I had been given a chance to attend lectures of such a passionate and cerebral person during my years of studying. All the best!
+Lou Mally I was a TA during my time at college where I studied Analytic Philosophy; much of the way I present arguments is based on my interactions with my mentors during my undergraduate career, specifically one professor in particular who sort of took me under his wing when I was a teenage fuckup.
+Lou Mally Hope you're doing well. Just dropping by to say that youtube is not the same without you around.
silver beasts are a different strain of the old blood. Probably the strain from the forbidden wood (Vermin), somehow connected to Oeden as we know the Shadows of Yharnam are directly connected to Queen Yharnam. They gard the access to her!
Your theory of the dark beasts is blowing my mind btw!
You can also get bolt paper by defeating the hunter with the Tonitrus, to the right of the grand cathedral. I'm not sure who that hunter is, though.
Archibald was the typical mad scientist from what I gather. He could've been the one to forcefully turn one of his "friends" into a darkbeast.
"That's why I Love Kelvin" perfect :)
Just imagine if in the dlc you'd need to transform into a abhorrent beast or something similar to beat one of the bosses. Kind of like Seath in the aspect that you go in his room, try to kill him but you can't, later you do something (break the crystal thing) and you can kill him. In Bloodborne you could encounter a great one and be killed by him and sent somewhere (another area in the dlc), then you find a way to become a abhorrent beast just once and then you can kill this great one
I know this video is old by now but I'd like to make two observations:
a) Izzy is predominantly a female name, likely shortened version of Isabella or Elizabeth. Don't really get why one would assume it's male without any actual evidence pointing towards it.
b) I think there's a flaw in your logic there with regards to Paarl. The lantern is called graveyard of the darkbeast... AFTER we've killed it, not before. There's no way of knowing it's called that before we kill it so it's safe to assume the lanterns texts aren't really to be taken as official name for any place, merely a pointer. In this case, it's a graveyard because that's where we killed it. That's how I saw it anyway.
Hah! I love the interaction between you and the cat :)
Keep up the good work!
My god, I need more of this. Read today that you're not gonna post any more videos and that's really sad, but I understand and respect it! You have contributed to much already and I can't thank you enough for it! Also when I got down to Depth 4 / 5 of the Chalice Dungeons I started to really enjoy them! Told all my Bloodborne friends about it but they all scoffed it off as if I had gone mad. Extremely happy to hear another that enjoy some part of the Dungeons!
Much love man, hoping for more videos but wont hold my breath! Have a lovely life and I hope you find happiness in whatever you choose to do! :)
oops! I see now that you already addressed my comment on the previous video! should have really watched the whole playlist before commenting! Still great work as always!
2 darkbeasts disliked this video.
Maybe the beggar is able to tranform in to the abhorrent beast because he cannibalized other humans.
You're not the only person who likes the chalice dungeons.
The thing that gets me confused are:
Whats the deciding factor for a man to become a 'Darkbeast' and a regular 'Beast'. We already know that others have the potential to become a variety of beasts such as the 'Cleric beast', 'Bloodletting beast', and the (Although we have no direct confirmation on it I don't think but its still very likely) 'Beast-possessed Soul'. as well as why there are lesser beasts like the ones found in old (and new) Yharnam or the Loran silverbeasts found in nightmare frontier, dungeons, ect.
It could be a number of factors; diet, genetics, the amount of Blood consumed, maybe even gender.
Something I found interesting in the opening cut-scene of vanilla bloodborne is that a beast rises out or the blood and reaches out to us but then is burnt to cinders when coming into our proximity. This I always attributed to us possessing pale blood. If kinship is the opposite of beasthood then (based on the observations made by others in the comments) fire is the opposite of of bolt then it makes sense that we the hunter in possession of pale blood (or in kinship) burn to cinders our inherent beastly nature we possess by virtue of our humanity. So like Prometheus the Great Ones (like Oedon) gave man fire and in doing so made us more than beasts (humans). But like Redgrave said the Old Blood somehow feeds or reminds us of our beasthood. This I believe is the first steps to "Greatness" for the Old Blood provides humans with insight into our true nature. We have the choice to succumb to beasthood or to ascend into "Greatness". Most of Yarhnam succumbs to the scourge because they do not understand true "Greatness". The reason that our hunter does not succumb to beasthood or to blood drunkedness is because when they consume three thirds umbilacle cord they gain the insight necessary to understand "Greatness" giving us the option to ascend and become an infant Great One. We alone achieve the Great One's purpose for elevating humanity from beasthood by providing them an heir. The rest of Yarhnam degrades back into beasthood having failed the test of the Old Blood, unable to ascend above their beastly nature.
EDIT: For anyone unversed in Bloodborne lore the Great Ones desire offspring but are unable to produce any naturally. The Great Ones are sympathetic in nature and will aid those who call on them.
Really really late to the game here but this makes me wonder, in relation to the "old" blood, Master William says "Undone by the blood" this could be more evidence towards beasthood being a devolution as in humanity is undone or reversed by the old blood into a beast. Also by saying "fear the old blood" William must have known the dark side to the old blood long before the church had started. Humm in Bergenworth, we see much different beast than any where else. Maybe William tried a few experiments himself and came to that exact conclusion. Just a thought anyways , im not much for wild speculation.
I'd like to point out that it's not like beasthood is an all or nothing transformation. the yharnamites you find at the start of central yharnam have beastly features without being "transformed" per se. that's like the whole point of how they first introduce the villagers, followed by the larger more lanky and beastly villagers, I thought. it's because, by recruiting yharnamites to help with the hunt, those who participated were giving in to violence and bloodlust and transform a little. that's the whole destructive cycle of the hunt.
I know this is late, but love your analyses man. Also that's a nice chainsword at the background :)
Couple of other interesting things:
- The suspicious beggar has no name. Which in turn ties well into the name Israel/Izzy being a mark of a person with no true name
- The beast claw item description you find in Loran says " Beastly weapon wielded by Irreverent Izzy." This might imply that the beast claw you find is not just any beast claw but specifically Izzy's own beast claw. Why would he leave his weapon behind? Perhaps because he can now willfully turn into a darkbeast so he doesn't have a need for his weapon anymore?
Good observations.
Good to have you back Redgrave, thanks for another great video! Hope everything works out great for you!
I come back to these videos all the time and I hope that redgrave is doing very well and life is good for him. Great stuff.
thanks so much I've been looking for this type of topic in Bloodborne the simple THOUGHT of BEASTHOOD and the fact that every man is born with it and it's a mechanic in-game is why I love this game so much. Mad love for Irreverent Izzy and her creations. I've spent most of my workdays thinking about Indy and Beasthood. I'm going to stop and YOU sir have earned a sub from me
had to comment even though these vids are old (been going through the playlist and your paleblood hunt essay is inspired). I love the chalice dungeons too!
Has anyone ever exhausted the Suspicious Beggars dialogue after he eats all the refugee NPCs that can be brought to Oedon Chapel?
You are awesome. Keep up the awesome lore chats.
izze could be the guy in the dlc carrying the otto firing pin badge, as he does start out human, and the suspicus beggar could have been a test subject of his at one point.
6:30 one of the hunters to the right of the Grand Cathedral drops bolt paper and I believe he was wearing the Yahar’gul set, so it still follows
Darkbeast Paarl's design is, to me, one of the most unsettling in the game. Not the grossest or the creepiest, but it has an eerie quality to it that disturbs me. It's probably something to do with the human-like skull on the beastly body.
Tesla ideas on electricity is the foundation for the whole energy distribution systems
Tonitrus was my favourite weapon because I love electricity and am absolutely fascinated by Nicola Tesla. I thought hm this looks a bit like a tiny Tesla coil so hell yeah I wanna smack those beasts with the power of Tesla 😂 later the rakuyo became one of my favourite weapons because of its tragic story and its bearer. What a great game!
Edit: I enjoyed the beast claw build the most. It’s so much fun to just go beast mode quite literally and lose all humanity and control.
...I always assumed Izzy was short for Isabella or Isabel or something.
oh, I was hoping you discussed the line about the similarities between Archibald and Byrgenwerth's style of inquiry, as I find it very interesting, and I have yet to hear someone theorizing on that, but in any case, great video
Shout out to Calvin who's been disrupting train of thought since Redgrave got him lol
So according to The Old Hunters, all hunters and descendants of Byrgenwerth are destined to eventually become "blood drunk" and get trapped in the Nightmare for the crimes of their forefathers.
But does the curse still apply if you ascend to become a Great One ? I would assume not. Maybe THIS is what drove the Healing Church to go forward with all their experimentations and kill and maim the innocent. Perhaps they weren't sociopathic overachievers (well maybe some were, like Mensis), perhaps their dedication to ascending was so that they can escape this dreadful curse ?
And likewise if ascension gets rid of the curse, maybe becoming a beast nullifies it as well ? If one becomes an Abhorrent Beast you become a monster sure, but free of the curse. And when you die your undead self becomes reanimated, turning into a Darkbeast and still averting the curse. Perhaps that's why they're considered "abhorrent" and "dark", they chose to become murderous monsters to escape a destiny of torment, an incredibly selfish decision but an understandable one. Like the beggar says "I didn't ask for any of this".
This was a great video! Lots of nice things about Izzy, and I love those thoughts about him being Suspicious guy. I would love to hear more about chalice dungeons as I love them too. I spend way too much time in chalice dungeons looking around, trying to find anything I can down there to hint at things. Keep up the great work!
Been looking forward to hearing about this topic! Good to see you again :)
I sometimes wonder if Archibald was behind those notes you find in the Lecture Building telling you to hunt the Great Ones, given that the electricity he was obsessed with is effective against them and their kin. And maybe its too big of a topic, but something that really remains a mystery to me are the Vilebloods. Is Queen Annalise opting for a third route to ascension? Why does she refer to herself in plural? How the the helm imprison her/them? Did you come to Yharnum on her invitation? What's with the unique creatures about her castle? Where have all the other Vilebloods gone? What are blood dregs (hunter semen?)? So many probably unanswerable questions.
She speaks in plural because she is a queen en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we
The creatures in the castle are the ghosts, which are just the spirits of the killed vilebloods (although i have no idea how they became ghosts) and the bloodlickers, which are not unique, they live everywhere where there is a lot of blood in the earth (like the blood river in the nightmare), and there is a lot of blood in the earth because all the vilebloods was slaughtered by the executioners.
The vilebloods are not the third route to ascension, but a version of the basic blood ascension. But instead succumbing to primitive instincts and turning to beasts, they embrace corruption, and, for the lack of a better word, "evil", staying visually human, but turning into the worst monsters inside.
This is my theory, anyway.
You are a legend, man. Respect.
In the spirit of getting back to the little things in Yharnam, I was curious if you had any insight into the statues which appear to be chained up in Old Yharnam. It was a really interesting visual that drew my eye in my initial playthrough of the game and I spent some time thinking about them. I've seen some other theories online suggesting by the imagery in the areas two churches that the citizens who transformed beasts had taken to worshiping the blood-starved beasts. If you've got anything to add I'd be quite curious to hear it.
Also, you're not alone in liking the Chalice Dungeons. I enjoy them quite a bit myself, though I wish they started at Depth 4, as I find the Depth 1-3 dungeons pretty tedious on repeat plays.
Just started watching this series today, really good stuff so far, looking forward to hearing more.
After the DLC, a video about the Beast's Embrace rune and Laurence would be awesome! Please make it happen!!!
Great video dude, I was looking for some insight on the darkbeasts so thanks for that =)
One thing i'm also very curious and would love to hear you talk about is the process of ascension of humanity. And also why so many believe that Willem was sucessful in ascending because he bleeds the white blood, and that imposter Iosefka failed because she bleeds dark red. Who knows how long ago Willem started his evolution and it seems to me we meet imposter Iosefka right in the begining of hers, who's to say she would not become just like Willem if left alone?
ok i have just found your channel through aegon of astora and i already love your work on this topic. i never even thought about why paarl had a badge, or why he was even there outside in the first place.
Maybe the darkbeast was the one Archibald experimented on and, because of his obsession with them, was considerd a friend by him without knowing Paarl before he became a darkbeast. Just like Tesla was in love with a pigeon.
love that idea
Dude you have an amazing brain, curiosity moves you! As it well should! These little things are so fucking interesting
A bit late to the party but another reason dark beasts could be the ultimate form is cuz when you die you wake up from the dream, so it maybe that they were able to get back in the dream somehow, or at some point they left giving them some higher knowledge on it
Pretty bad ass stuff! Bloodborne lore never gets old!
is that a Chainsword in the back?
Ultramarines?
:)
You ain’t alone dude I too love the chalice dungeons. Great place for farming really good blood gems, blood echos and insight. Aside from a few bosses I probably play that part of the game more then the actual game lol
hope this isn't weird but i just watched this video today, hope all the moving and work related things are going well!