Remember how Mikkel reacted to Ulrich being stopped in 1987? I think that's the final nail in the coffin for his faith. Because he accepts that God has a plan for him. That all this insane shit is evidence of a higher power, sending a priest to him, sending that priest again right at the very moment of temptation when he stares at the cave after running towards it on a whim (how did Noah know I would be here he must think). Then that same power stopping him when he goes to the cave a third time to escape. On that third time he is just silent, he lets it happen, because clearly it is not meant to be. Ines told him, Noah told him, eventually he listened. Noah is a pretty forceful and convincing voice, and Ines rubs off too.
Regarding Michael. Remember his mother (Jonas' grandmother said the same thing) when she was confronted by Jonas who asked why she didn't try to save Mikkel. We know she has been drugging him and likely taught him this was all part of Gods plan. She probably believed she was helping him in some twisted way. That's why he sounds so devout now and seems unstable because much of his life felt like a dream. He finally feels like there is some purpose to it all, saving Jonas and that it's worth it.
This makes sense. I’ve been thinking a lot about why Ines, who I think of a good person so far, drugs Mikkel and I think you are right, she’s being (extremely) overprotective. Mikkel’s storyline is so sad.
Nice one as always! As Pseudonymous Being wrote, Mikkel/Michael slowly turned into a believer in God, because Ines raises him that way, and because of Noah's influence on the kid. Michael is not Sic Mundus. Michael is killing himself out of love for Jonas, and because he believes it's all God's plan. Ines and Noah brainwashed him to an extent, for example remember that "butterfly talk" Ines had with him, asking him what's real and what's a dream? Sleeping pills and gaslighting, and you turn a non-believer kid into a believer adult that will ultimately accept his fate. Especially when Michael sees his young self and realizes again what trauma will lie in front of young Mikkel. Mikkel, upon arriving in the past, gets rejected by his young parents Katharina and Ulrich in school, which must've felt like the first big betrayal to him. He's essentially lost all his family. Hannah is the only one giving him the time of day. Ines later makes him repress the truth, and together with Noah, they construct this belief in God's plan as the explanation for it all. Ines also made sure that old Ulrich couldn't take young Mikkel into the caves, after realizing he was missing. She immediately called Egon prevent it in the nick of time, basically kidnapping Mikkel back to her. Did she have inside information, did someone else (like Noah for example) make that chess move in the time war? Not suggesting that she actually knows Noah very well, i don't think she does. Because if old Ulrich and young Mikkel were not caught, they probably would've met Martha, Magnus, Franziska, Elisabeth and Bartosz, who had just traveled to 1987 and came out the cave a bit earlier, and could've traveled back using their time machine. Instead, old Ulrich goes back to the insane asylum and Mikkel goes back to Ines. 8:40 "Ropemark-Jonas" was sent there by Adam to (supposedly) prevent his father from killing himself, which in Jonas' mind would be the end of his own existence. So he wanted to take this last opportunity to connect with Martha. It's definitely a goodbye kiss, as well as the setup for their relationship. "You and I are perfect for each other. Never believe anything else." By the way, at the very end of the last episode S2E5, Adam shed a tear after sending Jonas to 2019. Adam was aware of Jonas not being able to prevent Mikkel/Michael's suicide, in fact, it's all part of the plan. Adam knows exactly what's in store for Jonas, that's what they mention at the very end of this episode with old Magnus & Franziska. 12:24 In the very first episode, on November 4th 2019, when Martha, Jonas, Magnus, Franziska, Bartosz and Mikkel walk to the caves at night to retrieve Erik's drug stash, they hear loud noises and their flashlights flicker. Someone (unknown who it is, could be yet another future Jonas) is time-traveling through the wormhole, causing the noise coming from the cave and the electromagnetic disturbance. The disturbance influences all conventional lights, only the sphere light from the future (that Jonas acquires from his middle-aged self) remains operational during those events. Anyway, they run away scared, Mikkel trips and falls, Ropemark-Jonas (posing as innocent Jonas) takes Mikkel into the caves, while innocent Jonas can't find Mikkel. Then they all start searching for him, not knowing he is no longer in 2019, because Ropemark-Jonas took young Mikkel through the passage and put him into '86. Why does Ropemark-Jonas do this? Because old Claudia convinced him that his role in this is much bigger and that everyone has to make sacrifices. This of course after Jonas having failed to talk Michael out of committing suicide and actually giving him the idea for it. Which is exactly what Adam wanted him to do when he sent him from 1921 to June 2019. Michael realized that he would essentially "abort" Jonas's existance if he wouldn't act exactly like Jonas told him he already did in his past. Michael - by having studied his own suicide letter after Jonas handed it to him - then also knew the date and exact time to write on the envelope to "do not open before": It's the moment Ropemark-Jonas travels through time to 2019, and at that time it is a certainty that young Mikkel will be taken to 1986. The letter itself is a bootstrap paradoxon. 13:20 Mikkel/Michael: "God doesn’t err. He has a plan. For each of us." These are essentially Noah's words. Ropemark-Jonas survived being hanged himself, escaping certain death like Houdini. Now he is the one (via Adam) to bring that final fate to Mikkel/Michael. Claudia says to Jonas that Adam is the villain here (although by the end of the episode, it feels like Claudia is one too, having caused such pain to Jonas by losing Mikkel/Michael again). Michael keeps his eyes fixed on Jonas during all those scenes. Michael knows that Jonas is the only one that could "put an end to all this" as Claudia says, to fix things, and thus must live. Jonas in his yellow jacket is the sun that others orbit, like in that illustration that Ellie likes in her book. Remember, Mikkel was abandoned by Ropemark-Jonas when he brought Mikkel to 1986 (via Claudia telling him that this is what must be done for the greater good). Despite that betrayal, when it comes to choose between his life or that of Jonas, he doesn't hesitate. Jonas is the only thing that brought him joy in his life, so Jonas must live. And in being convinced that this is all part of a godly plan, self-sacrifice just seems like the right thing to do here. 13:46 I like your confidence with which you proclaimed "Alternate universe!". Claudia likes to speak in riddles though, doesn't she. We shall see.
"It's definitely a goodbye kiss, as well as the setup for their relationship." - the perfect representation of "Der Anfang ist das Ende und das Ende ist der Anfang"
Nice input as always @Mile Miller! Thank you, for always stopping by this small channel and always sharing your thoughts, they are very insightful and give us a point of view that we haven’t really seen or consider. “Despite that betrayal, when it comes to choose between his life or that of Jonas, he doesn’t hesitate.” Poetic.
8:12 THIS is a really good question. Remember that travelling-Jonas (or 1-year-older-Jonas) is wearing the clothes that were sitting by his bedside early in the last episode. So Adam and Sic Mundus have provided him with these.
11:24 The eerie thing is... i could be but it could also not be. Yes the idea to kill himself seemingly has no origin, but if this was a series of iterative loops we could still trace it back to the first time.
13:13 I can finally congratulate you, Lydia. You were spot on in the last video. And that is what I like about this show so much: it isn't built around the weirdest things happening but instead focussing on why the characters make the weirdest decisions; once you understand how they tick you can indeed predict what they will do
14:35 I would like to your assessment of the situation that while Hannah is getting freaky with Katharina's husband that technically Katharina is lying in bed with Hannah's husband. This episode is full of this type of weirdness. For example Martha and Jonas technically share two first kisses with each other.
15:34 When I binged thw second season on release I was giddily sitting on the backrest of my couch but otherwise my reaction was pretty similar. Because if you opt to analyze the show instead of letting it wash over you, you will often see a confirmation in what others would call a reveal.
So my thoughts on Ines. I dont get how some people think of her as a good person. I cant see it. To me, what shes doing is incredibly fucked up and selfish. Ines said that she couldnt have kids, and always wanted one. So for her to meet Mikkel and be able to take him in is a miracle for her... the thing is though, Mikkel clearly wants to go home, and has tried to go back to the cave twice now. Shes keeping him drugged and telling him to forget everything in the past simply so he wont try to go back home again. She so desperately wants to keep him that shes basically brainwashing him. Mikkel when they show him with Ines always acts so emotionless and he even moves slowly because hes so drugged up.. Drugging a boy whos lost his family, so he wont try to get back to them... thats incredibly messed up. Not only that, but every time they show her, she doesnt care at all about what Mikkel wants. Even to the VERY LAST thing he ever wanted. His suicide note was addressed to Jonas. Was written for him, to tell him everything. Ines couldnt even freaking let him give the letter to his own son. Taking it for herself instead.. not even telling Jonas about it til he came to her months later. Then, after Michael died, Hanna calls and leaves her a message about how Ines had their power shut off because she didnt want to pay it after Michael was no longer living there.. Hell, they even said she didnt even try to see Jonas ever after Michael died. Since Michael wasnt there anymore, its like she couldnt care less about the rest of the family.
we simply work differently; for me this "twist" was telegraphed for ages; it is still a powerful emotional moment though that I like to rewatch; in my eyes most of the show is not telling that this or that happens: it perfectly portrays what is going on inside the characters that lead to the decisions in the first place;
Well, Dark has so many angles from which you can see the story. It's impossible to take it all in on a first watch. Also, since I know the story now, I have time to appreciate the music, photography, set design, editing etc.
@connectingTheDots makes a really good point. I, for the most part, feel overwhelmed when watching Dark because there is so much happening all the time, even when it’s not obvious that something is happening. And that, I think, can sometimes make you not fully appreciate other aspects of the show, like the music and make up. A rewatch of the show might help to better appreciate those aspects.
Развлечения
"Do beggining and end even exist?"
Remember how Mikkel reacted to Ulrich being stopped in 1987? I think that's the final nail in the coffin for his faith. Because he accepts that God has a plan for him. That all this insane shit is evidence of a higher power, sending a priest to him, sending that priest again right at the very moment of temptation when he stares at the cave after running towards it on a whim (how did Noah know I would be here he must think). Then that same power stopping him when he goes to the cave a third time to escape. On that third time he is just silent, he lets it happen, because clearly it is not meant to be. Ines told him, Noah told him, eventually he listened.
Noah is a pretty forceful and convincing voice, and Ines rubs off too.
Good explanation!
Man, Mikkel’s story is so sad.
“…eventually he listened.” Well put @Pseudonymous Being
Regarding Michael. Remember his mother (Jonas' grandmother said the same thing) when she was confronted by Jonas who asked why she didn't try to save Mikkel. We know she has been drugging him and likely taught him this was all part of Gods plan. She probably believed she was helping him in some twisted way. That's why he sounds so devout now and seems unstable because much of his life felt like a dream. He finally feels like there is some purpose to it all, saving Jonas and that it's worth it.
This makes sense. I’ve been thinking a lot about why Ines, who I think of a good person so far, drugs Mikkel and I think you are right, she’s being (extremely) overprotective. Mikkel’s storyline is so sad.
"look at Jonas and his perfect neck"
Lol true. Necks are pretty influential on how good men look, Louis has a pretty good neck haha
Nice one as always! As Pseudonymous Being wrote, Mikkel/Michael slowly turned into a believer in God, because Ines raises him that way, and because of Noah's influence on the kid. Michael is not Sic Mundus. Michael is killing himself out of love for Jonas, and because he believes it's all God's plan. Ines and Noah brainwashed him to an extent, for example remember that "butterfly talk" Ines had with him, asking him what's real and what's a dream? Sleeping pills and gaslighting, and you turn a non-believer kid into a believer adult that will ultimately accept his fate. Especially when Michael sees his young self and realizes again what trauma will lie in front of young Mikkel. Mikkel, upon arriving in the past, gets rejected by his young parents Katharina and Ulrich in school, which must've felt like the first big betrayal to him. He's essentially lost all his family. Hannah is the only one giving him the time of day. Ines later makes him repress the truth, and together with Noah, they construct this belief in God's plan as the explanation for it all.
Ines also made sure that old Ulrich couldn't take young Mikkel into the caves, after realizing he was missing. She immediately called Egon prevent it in the nick of time, basically kidnapping Mikkel back to her. Did she have inside information, did someone else (like Noah for example) make that chess move in the time war? Not suggesting that she actually knows Noah very well, i don't think she does.
Because if old Ulrich and young Mikkel were not caught, they probably would've met Martha, Magnus, Franziska, Elisabeth and Bartosz, who had just traveled to 1987 and came out the cave a bit earlier, and could've traveled back using their time machine. Instead, old Ulrich goes back to the insane asylum and Mikkel goes back to Ines.
8:40 "Ropemark-Jonas" was sent there by Adam to (supposedly) prevent his father from killing himself, which in Jonas' mind would be the end of his own existence. So he wanted to take this last opportunity to connect with Martha. It's definitely a goodbye kiss, as well as the setup for their relationship. "You and I are perfect for each other. Never believe anything else."
By the way, at the very end of the last episode S2E5, Adam shed a tear after sending Jonas to 2019. Adam was aware of Jonas not being able to prevent Mikkel/Michael's suicide, in fact, it's all part of the plan. Adam knows exactly what's in store for Jonas, that's what they mention at the very end of this episode with old Magnus & Franziska.
12:24 In the very first episode, on November 4th 2019, when Martha, Jonas, Magnus, Franziska, Bartosz and Mikkel walk to the caves at night to retrieve Erik's drug stash, they hear loud noises and their flashlights flicker. Someone (unknown who it is, could be yet another future Jonas) is time-traveling through the wormhole, causing the noise coming from the cave and the electromagnetic disturbance. The disturbance influences all conventional lights, only the sphere light from the future (that Jonas acquires from his middle-aged self) remains operational during those events.
Anyway, they run away scared, Mikkel trips and falls, Ropemark-Jonas (posing as innocent Jonas) takes Mikkel into the caves, while innocent Jonas can't find Mikkel. Then they all start searching for him, not knowing he is no longer in 2019, because Ropemark-Jonas took young Mikkel through the passage and put him into '86.
Why does Ropemark-Jonas do this? Because old Claudia convinced him that his role in this is much bigger and that everyone has to make sacrifices. This of course after Jonas having failed to talk Michael out of committing suicide and actually giving him the idea for it. Which is exactly what Adam wanted him to do when he sent him from 1921 to June 2019.
Michael realized that he would essentially "abort" Jonas's existance if he wouldn't act exactly like Jonas told him he already did in his past. Michael - by having studied his own suicide letter after Jonas handed it to him - then also knew the date and exact time to write on the envelope to "do not open before": It's the moment Ropemark-Jonas travels through time to 2019, and at that time it is a certainty that young Mikkel will be taken to 1986. The letter itself is a bootstrap paradoxon.
13:20 Mikkel/Michael: "God doesn’t err. He has a plan. For each of us." These are essentially Noah's words.
Ropemark-Jonas survived being hanged himself, escaping certain death like Houdini. Now he is the one (via Adam) to bring that final fate to Mikkel/Michael. Claudia says to Jonas that Adam is the villain here (although by the end of the episode, it feels like Claudia is one too, having caused such pain to Jonas by losing Mikkel/Michael again). Michael keeps his eyes fixed on Jonas during all those scenes. Michael knows that Jonas is the only one that could "put an end to all this" as Claudia says, to fix things, and thus must live. Jonas in his yellow jacket is the sun that others orbit, like in that illustration that Ellie likes in her book.
Remember, Mikkel was abandoned by Ropemark-Jonas when he brought Mikkel to 1986 (via Claudia telling him that this is what must be done for the greater good). Despite that betrayal, when it comes to choose between his life or that of Jonas, he doesn't hesitate. Jonas is the only thing that brought him joy in his life, so Jonas must live. And in being convinced that this is all part of a godly plan, self-sacrifice just seems like the right thing to do here.
13:46 I like your confidence with which you proclaimed "Alternate universe!". Claudia likes to speak in riddles though, doesn't she. We shall see.
"It's definitely a goodbye kiss, as well as the setup for their relationship." - the perfect representation of "Der Anfang ist das Ende und das Ende ist der Anfang"
@@MrSmokinDragon True...
Nice one again, Mr. Miller 👏
@@MrSmokinDragonYes!😍
Nice input as always @Mile Miller! Thank you, for always stopping by this small channel and always sharing your thoughts, they are very insightful and give us a point of view that we haven’t really seen or consider. “Despite that betrayal, when it comes to choose between his life or that of Jonas, he doesn’t hesitate.” Poetic.
Don’t forget, Noah visited Michael in hospital as a child that’s where he got the god has a plan thing from.
There are a lot of bootstrap ideas swirling about, which I love!
Yes, we love them too, but man it just makes everything harder to decipher.
Actually we love that too.
Hi , I would never spoil, but I can say: Claudia is a very important character! Greetings from Germany😘
Right when we thought she was not going to be seen again because of her last interaction with Noah, she comes back!
Such a phenomenal and emotional episode. Great reaction!
To many Jonas’ is a good tag line for this show
6:57 If only this newspaper article wasn't as blurred out it would probably tell us everything about Boris Niewald...
8:12 THIS is a really good question. Remember that travelling-Jonas (or 1-year-older-Jonas) is wearing the clothes that were sitting by his bedside early in the last episode. So Adam and Sic Mundus have provided him with these.
11:24 The eerie thing is... i could be but it could also not be. Yes the idea to kill himself seemingly has no origin, but if this was a series of iterative loops we could still trace it back to the first time.
13:13 I can finally congratulate you, Lydia. You were spot on in the last video.
And that is what I like about this show so much: it isn't built around the weirdest things happening but instead focussing on why the characters make the weirdest decisions; once you understand how they tick you can indeed predict what they will do
14:35 I would like to your assessment of the situation that while Hannah is getting freaky with Katharina's husband that technically Katharina is lying in bed with Hannah's husband.
This episode is full of this type of weirdness.
For example Martha and Jonas technically share two first kisses with each other.
15:34 When I binged thw second season on release I was giddily sitting on the backrest of my couch but otherwise my reaction was pretty similar. Because if you opt to analyze the show instead of letting it wash over you, you will often see a confirmation in what others would call a reveal.
Heaven is a place on Earth is nice :)
So my thoughts on Ines. I dont get how some people think of her as a good person. I cant see it. To me, what shes doing is incredibly fucked up and selfish. Ines said that she couldnt have kids, and always wanted one. So for her to meet Mikkel and be able to take him in is a miracle for her... the thing is though, Mikkel clearly wants to go home, and has tried to go back to the cave twice now. Shes keeping him drugged and telling him to forget everything in the past simply so he wont try to go back home again.
She so desperately wants to keep him that shes basically brainwashing him. Mikkel when they show him with Ines always acts so emotionless and he even moves slowly because hes so drugged up.. Drugging a boy whos lost his family, so he wont try to get back to them... thats incredibly messed up.
Not only that, but every time they show her, she doesnt care at all about what Mikkel wants. Even to the VERY LAST thing he ever wanted. His suicide note was addressed to Jonas. Was written for him, to tell him everything. Ines couldnt even freaking let him give the letter to his own son. Taking it for herself instead.. not even telling Jonas about it til he came to her months later.
Then, after Michael died, Hanna calls and leaves her a message about how Ines had their power shut off because she didnt want to pay it after Michael was no longer living there.. Hell, they even said she didnt even try to see Jonas ever after Michael died. Since Michael wasnt there anymore, its like she couldnt care less about the rest of the family.
How do ppl rewatch shows like these 😩😩 when I know plot twists I can’t rewatch … I rewatch like this watching ppl react
we simply work differently; for me this "twist" was telegraphed for ages; it is still a powerful emotional moment though that I like to rewatch;
in my eyes most of the show is not telling that this or that happens: it perfectly portrays what is going on inside the characters that lead to the decisions in the first place;
Well, Dark has so many angles from which you can see the story. It's impossible to take it all in on a first watch. Also, since I know the story now, I have time to appreciate the music, photography, set design, editing etc.
@@michaelklaus I know I just wish I was able to rewatch like u guys 😩😩😩 just can’t this show was so good
@connectingTheDots makes a really good point. I, for the most part, feel overwhelmed when watching Dark because there is so much happening all the time, even when it’s not obvious that something is happening. And that, I think, can sometimes make you not fully appreciate other aspects of the show, like the music and make up. A rewatch of the show might help to better appreciate those aspects.
Disappointed that you guys searched for the characters online. A lot of spoilers are in the description of the characters.
Hey @Jay J, are you talking about 15:20?