Are Mormon Bishops "Inspired of God?"
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- Опубликовано: 29 ноя 2020
- Matt Elggren discusses an odd encounter from his past, and how it led him to the realization that his bishop was not “divinely inspired.”
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode number 616 - "Thirteen Years of Silence." The full interview can be found here: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
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#LDS #Mormon #Bishop
Social circles and friendships seem to play a big role in the callings of the Bishop and his counselors.
Thank You for the message
That is so true! Most of the time anyways. I've seen the rare occasion where people are chosen by "inspiration".
Isnt that the only thing that makes sense? Why would God call a bishop that didn't have the right social circle to serve?
@@drewhanna9057 so they don’t serve the whole ward? Just a certain social circle?
@@shawnbradford2243 I dont understand what you are asking. We are talking about being called to serve, not who they serve. What do you mean?
Let me tell you, I lied to my bishop all the time during the bishop teenage interviews and the HG never told him I was lying.
Ditto
@@grizzrider2684 lmbo !
You are naughty. You should always tell the truth. Especially when the bishop is going to tell his wife, his counselors, his siblings, and all his friends everything you confessed to him.
Heavenly Father knew..
@@oznerriznick2474 then how do they get appointed to church leadership and get access to the temple?
My experience in a few Bishopric's is that they do seem to be occasionally inspired, but are mostly not or were dangerously wrong. Yet as a counselor, my Bishop directed me to tell people that God was calling them, not men. A lie. He also mistook a pedophile for "one of the most Christlike men he knew." Oh boy.
It is funny how the higher up you go, sometimes is when it becomes more clear that there is not the inspiration you thought there was. So many people you see get callings and you wonder how they were chosen. Then you realize that there is regularly a connection. Our bishop is life long friends with the Stake President, who just happened to choose his good friend to be bishop. Our stake president just happens to be related to a very recognizable family name in Mormon circles. It is even worse (nepotism/connections) when you look at the general authorities. It is so crazy to look at most apostles (Hinckley, Smith, Ballard, Kimball, etc) and you notice that most of them had immediate relatives who were also big wigs in the church. It is almost like a family business....
It was founded by two families to begin with and both got wealthy from it!
@@shawnbradford2243 I just learned this week (from our Gospel Doctrine class...haha) that Dallin H. Oaks is a direct descendant of Martin Harris! The "H" in Dallin H. Oaks is HARRIS and Martin is his great great great grandpa or something. Sheesh! Aside from the token German or Latino, most of the brethren really are in a family business it seems.
Well said John, try joining a small branch in Scotland in the 1980s or anywhere outside Utah...callings come thick and fast, you are given a handbook and a handshake, so sadly I never saw any of our leaders as anything other than good faithful men trying their best but I never believed that God talked too or through them...I always felt sorry for my Bishop and his family...the church runs good people into the ground...too much pressure not enough training or support...
Great points, couldn't agree more!
Interesting thank you
I've seen bishops say completely opposite things about the exact same issue. Also a stake president being completely mistaken about something I knew about and he had no clue. So inspired by God? Not in my experience.
"You are inherently worthy" 9:15 ish. I'm sure there are people out there that need to hear that. Thanks, John.
I served as a Bishop and must confess i truly tried to seek God's inspiration in all my dealings with those i endeavoured to serve. At the time of serving i would often feel conflict as to if my counsel was inspired or human in nature.
Ultimately, some 30 years later i often wonder if my thoughts, guidance, 'inspiration,' had a deterious effect on any of those I served. I hope not, but if I did I hope you can be forgiving and understanding and know that I never did anything to cause offence, my desire was always to support and follow God.
Having now left the church for 8 years and reaching 60 years old I looked back upon my sojourn in the church with fondness but also sadness and in many ways feel my life has moved forward in a positive direction, but I still feel shackled with guilt and struggle with many of the decisions I have to make in my life as to how I should conduct myself, It can be truly debilitating.
It’s good you did what you thought was best for your people. Caring is half the battle!
@@shawnbradford2243 Thank you Shawn.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
You mention you left the lds church. May I ask if you still have a connection with God?
What I noticed from your comment is you really seem to care and that’s such a big part of helping.
Some lds are critical of Christian pastors getting paid. They get paid because it is their chosen vocation and calling. They tend to do it for their entire career. Most go to college for a minimum of 4 years, but more often 8-12. They are on call 24/7. I do know Bishops who put in that kind of time, they are the better ones.
I’ve spent time in both the lds church and now for the past 30+ years in a Christian church. My husband is also exmormon and has been Christian for almost 20 years.
You mentioned some guilt related to years as a bishop (if I understood correctly) Jesus can help remove that guilt. If you have any questions I will try to help.
How can they be speaking from God their appointed to a position I doubt very much they get spiritual help because some of the questions they ask teens and their one-to-one interviews are totally totally inappropriate and should be not be asked by anyone but a therapist who is probably not ordained by God I don't think God has anything to do with this
This topic and things relating to this topic were the things that eventually ended up breaking my shelf. The biggest issue is that they say these people are "called of God" and "ordained by God" to say and do certain things, but as soon as those things are pointed out to be harmful, they're just "human beings who made a mistake." Are they called of God or not, damn it!?!? The mental gymnastics of trying to justify it all just broke me.
Good video. Very important topic to me. I appreciate it and all you do with your content.
Thank you so much!
Boy, you nailed the problem exactly right.
Thruth-moment. I would have fell to my knees if I didn't sat down already when I heard "You are inherently worthy". I have never thought of myself in that way. I can remember, though most clearly in Young Men, that I have been thaught that I alone is not enough to come back to God. I remember from early youth "that I started to discover my own body" I was dragged to the bishop. I remember sitting there with my mom and was asked the most humiliating questions - I was crushed ( Sorry if it got to personally)
Thank you John Dehlin for this video
Thank you much for sharing! I'm so glad this video resonated with you. You are always worthy!
So many boys go through this, and lots of them feel alone about it, and feel they can't tell anyone. This process from the church makes the normal difficulty of growing up even worse.
Some bishops are inspired by their general authority fueled narcissism.
Some of them are very power hungry and controlling too.
You're all moaning losers..
@@benjamintrench8722 when you cant dispute the facts use ad hominem...
@@georgezeller6046 Awww you poor soul.. facts..Rofl..Just live with it and eat it. You and your sad kind are not going to change anything with your very rants. The Church of Jesus Christ is GrrrrOWING. Eat it ! 😇
@@benjamintrench8722 Yes facts. Do you always accept claims that contradict reality without any research or evidence?
The truth is the Mormon church is bleeding members like never before. There is a reason for all the rebranding. There is a reason membership statistics are no longer shared in conference. There is a reason the church is now admitting to things they have called anti Mormon lies and denied for years. Yesterdays apostasy is today's gospel topics essays. If current trends continue the Mormon church will experience negative growth within a decade. Behold the stone cut from a mountain without hands.
I had all of these feeling about worthiness interviews when I was 12, but like most children I could not articulate those feelings without upsetting my parents or other leaders. When I had my own children, I stopped using the word worthy or worthiness, because of those feelings. My parents were good parents, but I'm thankful I did not drag my own children through so much of what I couldn't process when I was a kid. Thanks again for being the voice.
Thank you for sharing, and thank you for your support!
I wish I could stand up in stake conferance and repeat everything you just said John...Keep up the good work and reveal all the fraud and deception and their lies..
Thank you!
JW elders have the exact same issues point per point. Of course, the theology is more nuanced and hence muddy. The elder is viewed as appointed by “Holy Spirit”, but not directly inspired. The organization and top authority is viewed as “spirit-directed”, and having been divinely appointed, but not inspired. So they get to have their cake and eat it too when they get things wrong, while still demanding the same compliance as if they were inspired.
Londo you're a long way from Centari ☺️
This was a great video!!
Is there one available on the 'Prophets' and if they're inspired of God?
Thank you John! Gonna wait until tomorrow morning to donate so you get that sweet, sweet Facebook money. You are doing amazing work!
@Sally Jean That is stalkery-specific...
They figure embarrassment is what's going to keep you on track
Thank you for sharing your podcast and helping heal those that have mentally, physically and spiritually been abused from members that are on the totem pole said “being called of God”. I have dealt with memories and experiences that have effected my life with an abusive bishop when 12 which has effected my whole life in so many ways. Not being in the church and following my own path of spiritually has helped to start the healing process. People sharing their stories is truly helping to heal other people. Thank you John for the person that you are and helping others! ❤️ You are truly an angel! 👼
Thank you so much for your support! It is so wonderful to hear that we have been helpful to mormons in need
Awesome blog post John.
This is probably the most important topic needed to be understood today in Mormonism.
Thank you!
Well, if they want to get messages from God, they’ll need a stone and a hat.
And then they'll need to go dig up Golden Plates in the mountains, and then drag them all over the place, and then...
Ah, to hell with it! They just need the damn stone and the hat!!!
Lol
If you don't repent you wont get yours if believe the Bible if you dont know it's in Revelations where it talks about the white stone fools mock but they shall mourn Brother
@@robertlewis7208, It seems that you find it very gratifying that your God will sternly punish everyone who doesn’t believe the same nonsense you do.
Why dont you just tell us why you have hope in Christ instead of putting down his servants think positive and have faith Brother
I'm still trying to figure out why it's not mandatory for bishops to have another adult present when they conduct interviews with minors. In every youth organization in the church; an adult can not be alone with a child at ANY time during ANY meeting or activity. When I was a scout leader I always made sure that either my wife at the time was with me or another adult during any scout meeting or activity. Why do bishops get the carte blanche? They could be accompanied by the first or second counselor. They tell them everything anyways!!!
Agreed!
You do need two people to count money though! Abuse a person no problem, steal money....heck no!!!!
I also think that the Bishop should not be meeting alone with adult women either. It is inappropriate for a ministering teacher to meet a single woman in her home alone, so why would it be appropriate for a bishop to meet alone with single women or other mens wives?
Mormon Bishop's also ask 7/8 years old if the touch themselves, and other questions like that. I was asked this before I was baptized when I was 7 years old.
So sorry that you were put that position at such a young age! Bishops should truly never be allowed with children alone. Thank you for sharing your experience.
@@mormonstories i remember not understanding some of the questions then, but feeling really uncomfortable.
Also doesn't the Mormon church state all children under the age of 8 are without sin, so there shouldn't be any worthiness interviews a child's baptism.
I’m so sorry that that happened to you.
I believe, in many cases they are inspired by one and only God (by Almighty dollar).
Well, I don't know about that, I don't go to church anymore, but I know bishops don't earn a salary. They are more inspired by power and control over their congregations.
Clear to the point and SO IMPORTANT!!! May save some children....I hope
Short answer: No
Long answer: Hell no
Great one DrJohn..couldnt of said it better myself..Praise God for the awakening!BLESSINGS UPON YOU & YOURS
Excellent video John. Let me add one point about what I have learned about Mormon bishops. A lot of bishops, not all but most, are successful professionals. The brethren must believe that if you’re a successful professional, then God has blessed you so that you can be called to be a bishop. That’s total bullshit. My bishop in a small town in Arizona was a pharmacist and owned the local drugstore. He sexually molested boys in the deacons, teachers and priests quorums! I was one of the deacons. When he is finally caught and excommunicated, he moves away, gets rebaptized and is called to be a temple worker! For a church built on modern revelation, the Mormon church has none. The church never wanted to hear my story. Church of lies...
Wow! What a story. Thank you so much for sharing and for your support!
Long-time listener of the Open Stories podcasts. Today I made my first donation. Thank you for the work you are doing.
Much appreciated! Thank you so much for your support!
My mother got a large settlement from a car accident. She wasn’t sure if she should pay tithing on it so met with the bishop. He told her to pay on it and she asked how to make out the check(she usually had paid cash tithing since we were poor) and he had her make it out to him directly. A few weeks later he took his family on a surprise trip to Europe. Same bishop was later ousted because he was such a total dick to every single mother in the ward, got reported and the church investigated. Mom never went after him for the theft however since it was the church...
More importantly: most conceptions of God are psychologically abusive as well. No need to keep believing in myths at all.
I agreed! My some bishops already damaged my painful life! It was awful. I left church for good. I feel a lot better since I goes to the counseling and feeling much different than the old awful bishop. I feel like they controlled the members. It’s sad. The last new calling bishop called me and asked me to discuss but I told him I refused to discuss so he is respectful me.
I don't really have anything to add to this video, but I am leaving a comment to help with the algorithm. Thanks John!
We'll take it! Haha. Thanks so much for your support!
@@UnderstandingMormonism John, I am a lifelong and currently active member who lost his testimony this year. Served in several YM and Elders presidencies. Never a time I wasn't a full tithe payer, never a time I denied a calling given to me.
My epiphany was when I saw how the church changed it's tune on LGBT issues. You and I are on opposite ends of that debate but the church shifting it's position on it and pandering to LGBT with their Mormon and Gay website is what made me start questioning if they really are inspired. I met with my bishop, stake president, and then wrote to church correlation. Their pathetic lack of answers and dodging questions sealed it for me that NONE of them are really inspired by God and the church leaders are willing to change the church's stance on ANYTHING if they get enough social or political pressure to do so.
I then started looking up the history and noticed this was nothing new, most major changes were derived out of major outside pressure to do so, not God telling them to do so. Polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, temple ceremony, church two hours, and on and on. It became so clear that everything they do is simply poll tested and bended to reflect and fit the sensibilities of the majority at any given time. It is either that, or God is very indecisive and contradicts himself regularly.
During the time of my transition I listened to many of your interviews and want to thank you. Even though you and I are almost opposite in our social and political opinions, we seemed to have reached the same conclusions about the church from opposite ends of the paradigm.
I'm still active but told my bishop that I will not be paying tithing ever again and he immediately took my temple recommend. My wife still holds a calling that requires her to attend ward council and it is very awkward because she knows in the back of her head that none of the church claims are true but she enjoys her calling and still wishes it was true. I'm trying to let her come to her own conclusions on her own timeline but it is hard seeing the church take so much of her time. I never looked at it that way when I thought it was God asking us to do the callings but now I look at it as unpaid labor. I was Gospel Doctrine teacher (and a few smaller callings) when I started asking questions about how the church could justify changing their stance on whether someone was born homosexual or not and I eventually got released because I was openly not satisfied with their non answers and dodges.
They love you UNTIL you start questioning them, then they turn on a dime.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 good for you, hope you start getting more joy from life now.
@@shawnbradford2243 Thanks Shawn, it is difficult because we are still close with our ward members/neighbors and at this point most don't even know where we are at regarding the church because we are still very active. All they know is out of nowhere I was released from three callings but my wife was not release from anything so I'm sure there is speculation going on. While they are speculating on what sin I committed, I am sitting there holding on to my integrity knowing that the church leaders are the ones not being completely honest about the church's history AND how they come to decisions today. The current church leadership want you to think they are receiving direct visitation from God but you will notice that they never actually say that anymore. They like to imply that they are "special witnesses" of Christ as Joseph Smith defined it (seeing God face to face) but they will never outright declare they have. This is because other church leaders have looked silly making other declarations (such as Brigham Young saying God told him that He will never take polygamy from the earth again) so current church leaders avoid specific and profound declarations like the plague because all they do is make the church lose credibility down the road.
You will notice that in our missionary efforts we mostly promote the social aspect of the church (great community, crafts, sports, mutual, ministering, etc) but we avoid most of church history and we avoid in depth doctrinal conversations as well. I used to buy into the "milk before meat" explanation but the more I realize the church does not like to discuss church history details or doctrinal details with seasoned members, I realized they NEVER want to address the meat, only pacify us with the milk. That is when the house of cards came down for me, when even church correlation gave me sunday school answers to my in depth and specific questions (several page letter).
I would like to just stop going to church and move on but my wife is afraid that if we do that it will make us outcasts in our neighborhood. So, we are still in a tough spot sadly.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 you got everything correct! Your analysis is spot on. They are lead by god when they want and they are just men when they don’t like what was said by someone. And no revelation or and firm statements on anything because they don’t want to be pinned down. I would recommend finding an ex mo group online to find others in your area that are in the same place, if your in Utah John would be a great place to start. Good luck and hope your much more happy living the truth!
Good information John. Thanks for sharing the information in a quick video.
As a Christian I know that Pastors, Priests and Bishops are just men. They are men working for God. They do not speak for Him. If they are trained well they can be helpful to those of us who attend church. Christian Pastors have a minimum of 4 years college education (often 8-12+) and then training under a senior Pastor. But, they are still men and have the same faults that any person can have.
I can’t imagine letting a child go on a one to one interview with them (as in the lds church).
One time a Pastor spoke with our daughter and we were both there in our house. (our daughter had requested Pastoral assistance and counseling)
You have to be called by God, the biblical God, spirit filled , you can’t be holding up Joseph smith or go by the Book of Mormon.?
I left awhile ago but this video is incredibly validating and good to hear. Thank you. 💕
The verse that describes the characteristics of a bishop has one additional thing in Russian translation of the Bible. It says that they have to be honest. When I discussed my conflict with my stake president with my local Seventy and a mission president, they told me that this verse was not for me, but for church leadership. So, I guess there are more verses in the Scriptures that regular members can disregard...
Откуда ты, друг?
@@annemiker4623 из Саратова.
я из Екатеринбурга!
@@annemiker4623 тоже разочаровалась в "церкви"?
@@exmodeadpool и очень сильно))
When I see someone not taking the sacrament, I admire them for their character. Or sometimes I envy them - they must have a much more interesting life than mine. The gospel clearly teaches that members of the church should not look down on the penitent, or judge others. So you are saying that some do?
Lots of jump cuts. Different style from Mormon Stories.
Understanding Mormonism is more of clips show that keeps the videos to 10-30 minutes as opposed to 1-4 hours.
Much better, they say that brevity is the soul of wit
@@michaeltaylors2456 or brevity = wit
I am so glad you made this video! Thank you 😊
So glad it was helpful! Thanks for your support
@@UnderstandingMormonism I didn't know how invasive those questions got. I somehow left at the age of nineteen without the church going there with me. I am certainly glad to know that I will never have subjected my children to this treatment, as well as myself, because of my choice to leave a long time ago and stay away.
You help strengthen confidence in my past choices with this information you spread and it reminds me of how much God loved me then and still loves me by clearing any doubt I may have lingering around my subconscious about my choices.
Thank you and God Bless!
*BIG Trigger Warning on This Comment!!!!*
I worked for Restore Honor (a student-run organization trying to reform the honor code at BYU).
I personally met a girl who had been raped, went to tell her Bishop and wore a dress that came above her knees.
In the interview, the *Bishop* raped her and said "if even I can't control myself with your immodesty, how do you think he could."
This was at BYU in about 2018.
He told her to repent for forcing him and the other boy to sin, and if she told anyone, he would report her to the honor code office for "her" sins, revoke her endorsement, and have her expelled.
Disgusting.
🤮🤮🤮
@@jordanboyack3932 agreed. :/ 😥
I hope the bishop was arrested. He probably did things to others as well. It's unlikely this was an isolated incident.
Jesus.
Thank you for this super important message. I agree 100% with everything you said. So grateful I no longer attend or support this unhealthy, hypocritical thinking. I’m smart, I can think for myself, the chains have been released! TFS!
Thank you so much for your support!
Please John safeguard you and your family. I found out about the violent memes that kwaku and the other violent punks have put on twitter and other places concerning you. Have you ever thought of getting out of Utah? My wife and I did because of threatening behavior against us from so called good Mormons. We were thinking of getting out before that but an incident really quickly made us realize that we had to move out to a saner place. Please take care.
As always delivering great value! Thx john
It can actually be very dangerous to give many of these men such merit.
My husband was physically abusing me to the point that I was afraid would take my life.
The bishop blatantly told me I was wrong, and that my husband was a good man. He then told me to go home, love my husband and support the priesthood.
I then went up the stake president.
BIG mistake.
He literally became enraged that I would question the authority of the bishop and sent me on my way.
My shelf completely broke then, along with my heart ♥️.
Thank you for sharing! Experiences like yours are why understanding this information is so important.
Eileen, I feel sad for you. I want you to know there are women out there, guided by God, who are intervening and speaking up. In a quiet way I have assisted in getting a woman out of one of these marriages before he killed her, healing another marriage where he was willing to change, and with my daughter, getting a molester into the state pen. Women must speak up for and support each other. I wish someone had been there for you.
"Please remove the word worthiness from you lexicon"
YES!!!!!
We requested to be present for any meetings with our children and this was not respected
Very well done. Thanks for making this so clear!
Great message John! Thank you!
Thanks for listening!
Exactly John. Exactly!
A mother and a father are usually more inspired than church leaders. I don’t think they are inspired to judge or help their people, unfortunately, they are called “judges in Israel” therefore making many, many mistakes throughout their service. Some are good people and understand that, others just have their calling way up in their heads. Bishops are as inspired as any one of the higher ranks leaders, just look at them how inspired they are.
No, not in the slightest. The realtor, pest control dude, dentist or construction contractor is just what they are, regular schmoes taking cues from the general handbook of Instructions
John, as a recently called bishop I 100% agree that the training of the bishops must improve. I think many of these issues and problems you're describing would have been avoided had bishops been better prepared to handle certain situations. For example, no where is it written in any handbook I have read to ask youth about masturbation or how etc.. It would be more appropriate to first make sure Youth understand the law of chastity (which forbids it) and then ask If they obey the law of chastity as they understand it. In addition to that, for the last several years parents can attend their children's interviews unless the child does not want them. The child can also ask another adult to be present during the interview if they would like. While I don't agree with everything you said, I still thank you so much for sharing these experiences. I believe they could help many bishops and church leaders be more aware of things they should and shouldn't do or say. God bless 🙏
Chuck, I would also encourage you to not be tempted to constantly imply that every decision you make is "inspired" or when you call people maybe don't use the phrasing "the Lord has called you" or "God has called you" because you are basically lying in most cases. Just because you prayed and felt good about a decision does not mean God is making that decision. It makes Bishops look like they are full of shit when their decisions don't turn out so good.
In stead, just tell people the truth. "Hi brother/sister so and so, we have a vacant position for (enter calling) and we prayed about who should be called to that position and we felt good about extending the call to you. Would you be willing to accept this calling?". See, no emotional manipulation, no false authority being used, no guilt. Just honesty.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Hi! Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment. I agree that sometimes emotional manipulation might be used, although, I don't think it's intentional most of the time (not saying that's ok though.) I like to think that Bishops usually try to have their members best interests at heart and say things that encourage the member they have they capability to serve in whatever capacity is being extended to them rather than manipulating them to receive the calling.
I joined the church a bit later than most members, and have been a member about 15 years I can only think if one interview/meeting where I felt emotional pressure to do something.
I think a good practice and hopefully one that most leaders use is to give members time to think about, and pray to seek their own spiritual confirmation that the calling is indeed for them.
Happy to hear other other suggestions, feedback or experiences (good or bad) you might have had. God bless you . 🙏
@@chuckgrenier8898 Thank you, it is comforting to know that there are many bishops like you who do not intend to manipulate the members by implying greater authority than they actually have. I know that when you are set apart you are told that you now have priesthood keys for the ward and you are entitled to spiritual guidance for the flock. And I also believe that we ALL have felt promptings from God that have guided us is particular situations. But having served in a few presidencies and having interacted closely with many bishops and stake presidents, it is clear that your judgment, inspiration, etc is not increased after another man prays over your head and calls you to this position. And deep down I think you are aware of this also if you are honest with yourself.
I personally feel that telling bishops this is also a manipulation tactic for the church. They really keep their unpaid leadership invested by making them feel special and closer to God than the people they are serving and also make them think they must be doing something right for "god to call them" to this important position. I believe they prey on the good hearted and dedicated members by pumping up their ego with local leadership callings.
In the last couple years I began having doctrinal questions due to several prophets contradicting each other on statements of objective truth. When meeting with my stake president, he first denied that there were contradictions, then when I brought up the quotes, he dismissed me as someone who was just looking to make trouble, then he punished me by telling my bishop to release me from my calling. When I was released, my bishop made up a reason for my early release. I called him on it and point blank asked if the stake president had anything to do with it. The bishop eventually confesses to lying to me and admits the stake president requested the release. Both men acted deceitfully with me, yet both still act like they are inspired in their callings. God did not call them, they both had connections to the people doing the "calling". The church has more nepotism and cronyism than most family run businesses.......
@@chuckgrenier8898 Hi Chuck, just curious, are you still a Bishop right now?
@Nick DipaoloFan Hi Nick! I am, yes. :) It's been about a year and a half now.
Just like there are all kinds of people, there are all kinds of Bishops. Some have even lied to get where they are. However, the Mantle of the Bishop is very real.
Twice I saw the Mantle decend and rest on the sholders of two different Bishops like shoulderpads and then disappear. I don't think the Mantle is permanent.
That's an easy answer: NO
Being raised in the church you are conditioned to think these questions are normal. I agree with John that most Bishops are trying to do the best they can, my father was a bishop twice and he thought this was how he had to fulfill his calling which made for some terrible interviews as his congregant/child.
It's all thanks to the messed-up ideology that all sexual thoughts and actions come directly from Satan until marriage. So yeah, I understand that Bishops think that they are doing their job by asking these questions, but why do they never question the fact that God is letting Satan have total control over everyone's libidos, and it's our job to constantly fight it? What kind of messed-up God do they believe in?
@@mylesmarkson1686 The pamphlet "To Young Men Only" can help answer that question. It was written in 1976, and it was discontinued in 2016. It was standard fare in those years. That may give you an idea of the messed-up God (men) they believe in.
@@AaronBrewer1973 Thanks George. You're a man of infinite wisdom. Say--Did you ever think about starting up your own religion?
Not my God ! The Mormons what to be treated like a god too. I pass on on Mormon stuff
Good stuff! Keep these coming!
Thank you!
Great video, John!
“...NO...”
“...well thanks for watching everyone! Please hit that subscribe button and like this video...!”
Except John Dehlin’s video was so much more thoughtful than my comment. Thank you John!
They think they are but they are not
Thanks John 👍.
God Bless 🙏💛💛✝️!
Thank you
These videos are great.
Thank you for your support!
The short answer to the title question is.....NO...you're welcome...
Only if their magic underwear is not too tight.
The ex mormon community is so lucky to have you. You really seem to understand the "Church", meaning what all the main stream Christains believe. Salvation is simple. Admit you are a sinner, accept Jesus as your personal Savior and turn your life over to Him. Good works and other Christian values will follow if they're not already part of your life. When it comes to judgement, only God can judge and He knows if you were really saved.
The bible is not a moral book or a book to base your life on. The bible condones rape and slavery and many other immoral practices. Its time we trust science, and require evidence before believing claims that defy logic and reality.
Not always. I have been in two bishoprics and have seen multiple times the hand of God in our decisions. I know He does work through bishops and they receive divine inspiration. That being said, every single calling, every decision, is not always inspired or from God directly. Just like every calling, God works through everybody, and when that calling is the Bishop...those keys and that calling comes with it's unique inspiration when needed or when the bishop is open to those things. As an imperfect being, the bishop screws up all the time.
The read the whole book of Mormons. It's only talking about Israelites in the Americas. God only talks to his Saints (Israelites). Why does it look like the Mormon doctrine seem to be a role reversal?
Not in my experience
As an 18 year old girl still in high school I went to my bishop for his thoughts, honest to God believing they'd be God's thoughts, about whether or not I should accept my RMs marriage proposal.
hopefully he told you that you needed your own confirmation on that one. I no longer believe the LDS church claims but even under the church operation, the bishop has no stewardship over things like that. He should have (hopefully) just told you that he has no access to inspiration on your personal life decisions.
Using the logic of gods not dead, how can you be inspired by something that doesn’t exist?
My opinion is probably unpopular but I don't believe most mormon bishops are good men trying to do the right thing. I can't imagine being comfortable claiming to speak for God when I know I'm just saying my opinions. I wouldn't be comfortable conducting worthiness interviews or telling people what to do with their lives and relationships. I think some men get used to the power and like it.
That being said, I get why you say that so as not to come across as bashing, and to be respectful. I just have a really hard time with anyone who's comfortable having so much power over people, I guess it's triggering after everything I've been through. Anyway..
Love all your content! Thank you so much for a your work, your interviews and presentations have been key to my recovery.
Dr. John Dehlin, I really appreciate your pieces of advice. They are all helpful and can save people's lives. You are a very good man.
Oh boy!
#10 Amen!
I have a pet turd-bird (they actually exist 😀) that is more inspired than some bishops I have known.
This video is correct, except I see no good evidence a god exists. There are ways to talk to yourself without pretending there is a god.
I'm very thankful I found your channel
Speak at times for the Lord. You left that part out.
A 'devout Mormon most of your life?' What happened?
Truth
@@shawnbradford2243 I'm 6th generation member of the Church of Jesus Christ as well.
True blue through and through.
Some of the most tender hearted human beings I know are bishops, stake presidents, relief society presidents,
primary presidents, etc..
They are absolutely inspired by God. They work very hard and have to sit up on the stand in front of people much like you.
Not a single one them are perfect.
That's truth.
@@oznerriznick2474 so when a church leader commits a crime it was gods will? Are all bishops loving to all members? Do you believe the bom is historically accurate and the boa is Chaldean Rahleenos written by the hand of Abraham on papyrus?
@@shawnbradford2243 We try not to speak unkindly about our ordained ministers. That's not taken lightly by God.
Bishops work full time and are not paid. They are not perfect men. A worthy bishop can definitely have God's inspiration.
The BOM, the dates and geography are aproximated. It's message is solid. It's the word of God. Have you read it?
The Book of Abraham, a funerary papyrus. It's only a partial record. It's interesting. We don't base all of the doctrine of the church on just that.
I do know that Joseph Smith was a prophet. He had a Urim and Thummim. He translated ancient hyroglyphics.
I believe the BOA was written by Abraham.
@@oznerriznick2474 so bishops are not called by god to serve? Are the bom dates and geography not America and from the Tower of Babel (jaredites) to the fall of Jerusalem (nephites)? Was the bom not Chaldean Rahleenos written by the hand of Abraham on papyrus? And what do you call the Urim and thummim Joseph used? What year was the term Urim and thummim first used in Mormonism?
I was a Mormon bishop about 15 years ago. I can think of a couple of times where I really was inspired to do or say something that turned out to be exactly what needed to be done or said. It wasn't often, but when it happened it was unmistakable. I don't attribute this to anything particularly 'Mormon' as I am aware of striking examples of non-Mormon inspiration from a friend in a different religion. This confirms to me that true inspiration, though rare, can and does happen to anyone and everyone. Mormonism has no monopoly on inspiration and no special access to inspiration either. I could cite many examples of LDS leaders that were overreactive, impulsive and clearly uninspired.
Yes as a bishop you know your ward personally and if you are a well connected to their feelings you know what to say.
Amazing you figured that out.
When Saints wrest the Living word of God .. / scriptures it is to their OWN condemnation..
God gives All Men their Full Agency.. unto their OWN condemnation!
James 1:5- if ANY MAN lacks wisdom let him ASK of God!!
Cursed is he that leans on the ARM of FLESH/ Natural men..
The Natural MAN IS AN ENEMY to God!
Joseph Smith, quoting John the Revelator, indicated this gift is so important that( every “man who has the testimony of Jesus,” is a prophet, “)(for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. -Revelation 29:l0th )verse” (TPJS, p. 119)
In ancient times it was thought that only a few people could be prophets. In fact, they often declared that they wanted only a certain person to be a prophet for all the people. Joseph Smith said this was a wrong concept and declared:
. . . the people should (each one stand for himself, )(and depend on no man or men)( in that state of corruption) of the Jewish church-that (righteous persons could only deliver their own souls)(-applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-)said if the people departed from the Lord, (they must fall-that they were depending on the Prophet)(, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves), . . . (TPJS, pp. 237-238)
And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And [91] Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Num. 11:25-29)
We have only ourselves to blame for choosing to be blind and following the blind!
When we own our pride , repent of our clear sin of not Calling upon God through his Beloved Son Jesus Christ..
to receive by him the Holy Ghost who giveth Authority / Priesthood to Act .. instead we gratify our pride, cover our sins , use compulsive means on the hearts of the children of men .. instituting False Priesthood going to Hell .. of our OWN Choice and leading all those who follow to go to the same place. This again is not the Mormon church fault!! It is ours ..
ready Isaiah 28 he says it so well the priest and the prophet are out of the way!! They error in judgement.. why ?? PRIDE!
Short answer; No
Not much he could do they make billions!
It’s because they are all gay!
As a gay man I will say that my interaction with church leaders before and after coming out were one of the main sources of my problems with the church.
Advice to anyone in the church because they feel like they can't yet leave, either you're still a dependent, etc: It is 1000 percent okay to lie to these men in order to stay safe and sane.
No.
What a Ridiculous question.. All men can be "Inspired of God" !
What is ridiculous is your willingness to accept claims that are demonstrativly false. Enjoy your delusion Benjamin.
@@georgezeller6046 " Though hast said." My last words to you...Who rattled your cage anyway..lol
@@benjamintrench8722 Your church and their verifiable lies. Clearly.
You would make a great bishop John.I mean after you get through this faith crisis.(most of us have had or are having a faith crisis)What you said here is true.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
You misspelled “misunderstanding”
I am so torn by this video. Dr. Dehlin, I do agree with a good amount of what you have presented, but I dont understand how you can make it seem so black and white. Why can't they be inspired sometimes and not other times? The first few sections of the Doctrine and covenants show Joseph Smith Jr. being blasted for not doing well. I am raising my children to look at Bishops as they would Brother Joseph, that sometimes they can be right and other times wrong.
On a last note, I feel that your advice to only look inside yourself could be improved. It just feels arrogant to say that no other person could have an inspiration or better idea than yourself. The presentation just doesnt feel very well suited to the real world. Even Freud himself said that he could only cure a man of the neurotic lies he tells himself to come to an even worse horror, a realization of his actual reality. I just dont see the utility in pitting psychologists against bishops without data. The way the world looks to me, the bishops might being doing better than the Psychologists anyway.
So sometimes god is right and sometimes he is wrong you never know which it is? How can they be gods spokesperson and be wrong otherwise? The thing is some of them a good people who love and care about that person and will give them good advice like any friend or family members would do. Others are not and just get by. The problem is Mormonism is founded by a man and not god, the bom is not historically accurate and the boa is a false translation of common Egyptian funerary papyrus. They are all just men some are just good men and better than the others and do what’s best for their friends and family (ward).
@@shawnbradford2243 I didnt say sometimes god is wrong or right, but sometimes the bishop is inspired or not. It just seems like most of the people who are on here commenting have a very childish view of religion in general. Its like they dont get the point. For instance, the man in the interview got his rent and food paid for and then blamed the bishop because a Jewish guy helped him get a job. A child acts that way, its just never enough.
@@drewhanna9057 so are the bishops lead by god or not? And how do you know when they are and when they are not?
@@shawnbradford2243 I think that anyone who has read the book of Mormon understands that the church can go wrong and then God condemns them. But channels like this are just pouring the baby out with the bathwater. To me, the whole point is not worrying about whether another man is calling people correctly with inspiration, but to gain inspiration for myself. I feel like this is just pouring the baby out with the bathwater. Its such a great religion! I have been a part of 5 different religions and this is by far the most tolerant and loving one. Nobody goes to hell for the most part. Its just a great chance to hear from God for yourself and practice being in a church with other imperfect people.
@@drewhanna9057 it’s the best religion? How? You know the bom is not true, those people didn’t exist and the boa is a false translation of common Egyptian funerary papyrus. That’s the point those bishops are just people picked by people to run a branch of the business. The fact that this is stop number 5 for you helps prove my point, at some point you thought the exact same thing about the past 4 religions! Maybe you should learn about the origin and history of Mormonism.
All we know you’re the only one left behind. No matter how hard you try and they try this church will penetrate the whole world
Yes they are losing America so they are moving in to third world countries. Target those with the least!
You're dead Gospel is loosing faster each day!
I think you’ve got it wrong in so many ways. There are so many variables and narrating with quotes doesn’t make what your saying true.
Please be specific on what is not true.
I'd like to correct you so you don't "bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Ex. 20:16), bishop means “overseer,” which is an office or position of responsibility. Bishop is an ordained office in the Aaronic Priesthood (D&C 20:67; 107:87-88), & a bishop is a common judge in Israel (D&C 107:72, 74).
As a messenger of God, a prophet receives commandments, prophecies, & revelations from God. His responsibility is to make known God’s will & true character to mankind & to show the meaning of His dealings with them.
You know what people.. From my experience with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I have found ceryain kinds of members, also the same in other denominations, who only complain about others and becaise of their own human weaknesses try to justify themselves by pointing the finger at them. Well, heres the common factor. Pointing the finger at others is only trying to cover up your own sins and make excuses to leave a certain belief. It saddens me to see this on here. I am not aware of any Prophet or servant of the Lord who didnt make mistakes. So what purpose do you people have in running away from the Truth by tryong to undermine others in the proccess ? Repent of your foolish ways for it will not build up your riches in Heaven but will only point the Finger of God to your condemnation, lest ye repent.
What are you doing? Are you trying to destroy peoples faith?
That's shameful.
Where I served a mission there are now multiple stakes and temples where there were only branches and a few wards.
I don't take credit for that but I never once tried to destroy other peoples faith.
I don't know who or what you think God is, but He is a loving Heavenly Father and one day we will both go before Him and give an accounting of what we did with our time here. Good luck to you.
Where you served a mission? Did you destroy people faith to convert them to Mormonism or reaffirm their faith in their own religion?
You went on a mission to destroy peoples faith in their own belief system to join yours. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your comment?
It was a general authority, a seventy whilst I was on my mission , interviewed me asking questions about me touching myself etc., I think he was worried that elders in the mission might turn gay after exploring themselves sexually on their missions, he introduced me to things I had never heard of before, the m word, at the time I didn't think anything of it, I was a green innocent 20 year old, but years later having left and looking back, the questions he asked were out of order. I don't feel damaged by it at all, just happy that no one has that control over me anymore. It is not good that people, often vulnerable people are asked these questions. Purity and their definition of it for me defines the mormon church , it's all about purity , the leaders they are obsessed with it.