I just want to yell out how awesome Fawn Brodie’s No Man Knows My History is. I’m underlining in red and making margin notes !! Awesome reading! Grant Palmer is next for me. Thanks, John!
@@savezelda Nibley is the classic apologist who wrote several books himself finding LDS related truths out of nothing. Compare what he wrote on the Book of Abraham to information provided by someone like Robert Richner. Though I will give Nibley this, he was the reason my shelf started to break. I likely wouldn’t have left the church if I hadn’t been a fan who at one time clung to his every word.
@@UnderstandingMormonism I can’t argue with your opinion. I’m just glad to get mentioned in such kind words. I would only say that Brodie’s book is well written and complete, though it is a little out of date. We know far more than she could in 1945. Even though Bushman’s book is apologetic, I would have rated it higher.
No Man Knows My History is one of the most important books that I have ever read. It read it as a devout but curious Mormon teenager. Needless to say, it destroyed my faith in the Mormon church and saved me from a mission and the Masonic endowment ceremony. I can't thank her enough.
1. No man knows my history (Brodie) 2. Joseph smith the making of a prophet (Vogel) 3. Insiders view of Mormon origins (Palmer) 4. American crucifixion (beam) 5. Rough stone rolling (bushman)
On your recommend my husband and I just listened to the recording of American Crucifixtion! OMG! Having been brought up R.L.D.S. Learned Soooooo much we had Never been taught or even heard of in church history....totally eye opening....even after all the Mormon Stories I’ve watched!...
Just finished No Man Knows My History. I couldn't agree with you more John. It's an excellent book. Very entertaining as well. (I think I have more highlights on my Kindle than you do post it notes ☺️ for Brodie's book. I read ALL of the addenda as well~~they are truly the dessert after a full course meal.)
The missionaries stood at my door one day and asked why I no longer attend church. I leaned in close and said well elders its personal. You see ive been sleeping with my neighbors wife. They gasped. I said also ive been sleeping with that neighbors 15 year old daughter. They stammered in horror. I smiled and said oh wait that was Joseph Smith, not me. And they haven't been back yet.
I reread "Under the Banner of Heaven" again after following that case now in Idaho involving the murders of 2 children whose mom was in a Mormon break off group. As a nevermo with convert relatives, I found it intriguing how sometimes this whole belief system can go on a wrong path.
Yes Susan, that's an understatement! The weirdness up in Rexburg is a natural outgrowth from the church's emphasis on "personal revelation" and typical of what often happens in a cult.
I’m really baffled that FMB’s book has not been made into a Hollywood film by now. I mean JS’s story, a poor treasure digger crests this whole movement that ultimately leads to his death. It is a very dramatic story filled with necromancing magic in the night, deception, intrigue, love, war you name it. I can almost imagine a movie of treasure diggers in the night where the viewer doesn’t actually know if it’s a con or not. I mean you see all the suspicious stuff but don’t know if he actually sees anything on that stone. All that being said does the church own the rights to JS’s story or image? Or is it that no one will touch this material?
Understanding Mormonism, of the books you listed I have only read Rough Stone Rolling. I thought Bushman interjected his own thoughts too often. Hill’s book, “Joseph Smith the First Mormon” was much more objective except for her chapter on polygamy where her opinion got in the way of her objectivity. BTW because of the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants I am a believer in Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God. My GG Grandfather was Joseph’s body guard, was a captain in the Nauvoo Legion, and a Danite and helped retrieve Joseph’s body following the martyrdom. A book I recommend is “The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon’s Stories” by Don Bradley.
I'm about fifty pages in and I love for all the reasons you, John, said. But another thing she does it tell the surrounding social story, just like what it was like to work in the developing US, and all of the other things that were going on at the same time. Great book!
Download the app overdrive. Put in your library card, if you dont have one, you can put in your phone number. I just downloaded it from there. And its completely free!
I agree with your choice of Brodie being top of the list. Primarily because of who she was, and when it was written. When growing up in the Church here in Australia, this book and author were spoken of as if she were from the devil himself and the book a fiction of lies. Thankfully, she was brave enough to write and publish when she did. An honourable, intelligent, and powerful woman indeed. Can I also recommend Richard S Van Wagoner's book - Natural Born Seer Joseph Smith | American Prophet 1805-1830. In my opinion, this book by Van Wagoner is right up there with Vogel and Brodie.
I am so grateful for these books. I read Bushman's and Brodie's, and I agree with John's analysis. Bushman's book felt slightly odd because of the apologetics, but I thought it was helpful to see how things look when construed in the best light possible. My impression is that Bushman himself is unenthusiastic about the apologetic reasoning. Does anyone else get that impression?
@@barbsehestedt6894 For many of us who wasted significant portions of our lives as TBM, it's not a journey defined by hate so much as a quest for truth.
I wanted to finish Rough Stone Rolling but just couldn't about 2/3 of the way through it. Still, I liked a lot about the part I did it. I love footnotes and was amply rewarded with many other resources to follow up on. Also, I loved learning more about charismatic aspects of the early church when speaking in tongues and visions were common, and how Joseph Smith reacted to that.
The book "Without Disclosing My True Identity-The Authorized and Official Biography of the Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr" .As a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I grew up with a great respect and admiration of Joseph Smith. As I grew older and learned more things I began to have some questions. This book explains who he was, what his life was about, his family dynamics and why he did some of the controversial and confusing things he did. Why did so many of his closest friends abandon him? Why didn’t Emma Smith and much of his family join with Brigham Young after his death? What was polygamy all about and is it really required of us if we want to live in the Celestial Kingdom? What is the Priesthood and who qualifies to receive it? This book answers all these questions and more. For the first time, his life and mission makes complete sense to me. This is a must read if you want to understand who this man really was. You will have a greater clarity than ever before by the time you finish the book. Joseph smith was not the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints
@@mathonilamanita7029 Never heard of that book so I checked it out on Amazon. 800 pages seems like a lot of time to invest in an author who doesn't reveal their last name. I am curious to know what justifies that claim of "authorized and official biography" of JS. Authorized by whom?
Thanks John been wanting some advice on these books....trying to read Rough Stone Rolling....finding it interesting, but quite a chore to get through...
As a former LDS I thankfully learned quickly that he was a charlatan, a con man. I shake my head at that I gave six years f my life to that crap and then spent the next several years recovering. It is hard for me to understand how faithful mormons still buy this crap when it is fully exposed now. I learned this in the mid-eighties when you had to find paper documents.
If the chapters on Mormon scripture were just a little less apologetic. Rough Stone Rolling would be one of the best biographies/history books I ever have ever read.
Thanks for your take on these important books, John. Would love your comments on other well-researched and written books on Mormonism, including the more recent ones by Joanna Brooks (Mormonism and White Supremacy) and Benjamin E. Park (Kingdom of Nauvoo).
I bought “No Man Knows My History” and just started reading it. I want to be a big fan of it as John appears to be (and others on the comment section). It’s entertaining and gripping but there are errors. She also does mind reading a lot. Example “Joseph liked preaching because it gave him an audience, and this was essential to Joseph Smith as it was food.” How in the world does Fawn know this? No sources cited. Just pure speculation. P.S. I left the church around 3 years ago and have no loyalty to the church whatsoever.
It is very simple. Read the Book of Mormon, and then sincerely ask our Heavenly Father, invoking the name of Jesus Christ, if it is true. The trick, though, is to endure to the end. My end is not far off. I'm 92. I'm grateful that as I wade through the avalanche of stuff like the above, the Holy Ghost still tells me it is.
@@ewankerr3011 If you read the B of Mormon, and the Holy Ghost (am I right?) told you it is false, then you should go with it. With me, I heard the words, out loud, "You are doing the right thing" and just before I was baptized(in the name of Jesus Christ) saw flames coming from my chest. I told no one, afraid they would think I'm cuckoo. When I read of the tongues of flames that sat on the disciples (three years later) at Pentecost, I understood. So, friend, life goes by quickly and we shall soon know. I'm sure I will find out sooner then you, me being 92.
@@edwardgabriel1946 : I appreciate that you have lived a long life and that you are a person of faith who had some kind of religious experience that convinces them of the truth of their views/denomination/etc. The problem I have with all these subjective experiences is that they are just that : Subjective. I have encountered a number of individuals who claim visions; eperiences; Jesus talking to them ; being "born again"; the Spirit living in them etc. I have no doubt that they are all sincere ( well some of them ) yet they preach a contradicrory message and gospel. Clearly, they cannot all be right.
@@ewankerr3011 I really love our country because of the religious freedom. My parents came to the USA because all the Christians were being slaughtered. I don't mind you thinking and voicing I am wrong. Early on in LDS history, members were physically injured and displaced. I think your efforts would be better used to convince others to repent of their sins. You don't believe the people mentioned above are sinners, do you? So many comments against LDS people and belief. My experience was not subjective - it was real. So, after you read the Book of Mormon, please describe what happened for you and what you learned wasn't true?
I really love this book; Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon by Robert D. Anderson. It uses events in Joesph’s life to explain diffrent events in the book of mormon. It is really an intresting perspective
There was someone, a man, who, say, in the last 20-30 years maybe, clearly more than a little jealous of Brodie's being long-heralded as the greatest biographer of Smith ever, and so he set out to write the definitive J. Smith bio--and after all his years of research and writing, to his credit, publicly concluded that the definitive Smith bio, was, in fact, that by Fawn Brodie.--Do you hapen to know who that was? one of your 7 suggestions, possibly? Thanks so much for the wonderful video. Btw, I am dismayed that the brilliant product of Brodie's objectivity could ever have been misconstrued by anyone as anything even remotely resembling a love letter. sadly symptomatic of a very sexist and miopic mindset. disappointing.
@@jameshasapoint7628 I couldn't give you an answer on whether I agree with you or not because I have not examined the text. That's why I asked if there was an audiobook version. If I had the chance to read/listen to it I could then tell you if I agree or not. So, I guess you won't want to answer my question. Bummer.
@@jameshasapoint7628 I'm am familiar with the idea of satan. But since you brought him up I wanted to know what your definition of him is. I'm middle-aged, so I've had a long time to think about this idea. I've never had any compelling reason to believe in him nor any compelling evidence. Would you be open to me asking about your belief in him? Did you mean to say you don't have a high level of confidence in his existence? Or at least greater confidence in a god than a devil?
Hey I want to ask since RUclips and social media sites are now tagging certain material as false or untrue. Like I know they are doing this to President Trumps tweets and posts why have they not done this to BoM videos? I mean I have seen they have some very well produced videos of BoM presenting it as history on RUclips.
I don't know but I don't believe Joseph was a treasure hunter. He said he was employed by Josiah Stowell and they did some digging and that's how the story came about that he was a money digger and that was it.
Joseph Smith Jnr is also guilty of blaspheming the Spirit because he claimed the Holy Spirit gave him the power to translate the Book of Mormon. Just come to me this very moment
So he just shows how manipulative and dishonest critics are about the church when they present information. He just says that the legal marriageable age at the time was 14 and the age of consent was 10. But it's very interesting how whenever that critics talk about Joseph Smith marrying 14 year old girls they never mentioned that information. Of course they don't it wouldn't help their position at all. They talked on and on about how the church hides information, and yet they conveniently leave this information out. They take things out of historical, cultural, and social context, which is something that anyone who was really interested in the truth instead of their own bias interest, would do. And by the way, if you are thinking that woulden't happen in the twenty-first century. it does.
Joseph Smith was a very Sinful man..It is amazing a Church would be founded on him. But I figure if God Forgives Joseph Smith. I certainly do not have to worry about my salvation.
The things you said about Dr. Bushman are not the things you said to Dr. Bushman when you interviewed him, Brother Dehlin. If you are at all impartial, you must admit that you continually "spin" things to match your current narrative, which, interestingly, supports you financially. I believe this makes you guilty of the same accusations you lob at Joseph and others. However, I feel you have goodness at your core and I believe your brothers and sisters in the gospel would still welcome your return to fellowship.
How do we know the sources are not contaminated why not just read the book of Mormon Bible Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price with open mind and heart ask Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ if what they contain is the truth cast out perceived gaslight assumptions with questions of eternal life and salvation dont take anybody's word seek the Lord not man's wisdom God bless you in your search
I'm sorry that's the way you feel it's troublesome when people that we think are pretty much perfect turns out Prophets and apostles are imperfect like us even though I have been inactive for 10 years I have had the witness of the Holy Spirit of the truth that Joseph Smith is the Lord's Prophet and if it takes faith to move forward in this life which it does I'm going to put it on the Lord God bless you
Just like the guy who bought a temple recommend from a disgruntled church member so he could sneak in and see just what crazy things we were up to. He was converted and baptized ! True Christians have always been persecuted ! I would expect nothing less in our day. By their fruits you will know them ! The Church of Jesus Christ is either Christs true Church or the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in the history of the world. Only time or the Spirit of God will tell ! You decide !
fawn Brodie said it best in the second chapter of her book " Mormon and non Mormon accounts seem to conflict at every turn" your "truth" will completely differ from the "truth" of Richard bushman or a devout practicing Latter Day Saint. You choose the facts that you want to believe, that's where we get this great divide in what is "true" we cannot know in this life. Each side will take their "facts" and act as if they were there but this just isn't the case. Where can you find truth in testimonials that convey opposite truths from the same event? You cannot.
@@UnderstandingMormonism I think that we both know that statement isn't true. There are countless testimonials of the true prophetic calling of Joseph Smith. All these events are follied by two differing sides of the same coin. Where can we find truth in differing testimonials of the same event? Should we take those who left the church or were excommunicated? or those who loved Joseph to the death and would never deny him? both are equally unreliable by their obvious bias. We can't live in this time, no one living has spoken or walked with Joseph smith so for you to say your claims are 100% reliable is dishonest.
I have no problem with Joseph Smith, he is a great man! I am very glad at this period of time books like these are available for us to read and understand how difficult it is for a Prophet of God to deal with the challenges of life! These books are a great inspiration and makes me think of other Prophets in the Bible and Book of Mormon, I wold love to read the biography of Moses as he lived half of his life as an Egyptian, I couldn't imagine what he went through! Also Alma, his biography would be intense! We are blessed in these last days with greater knowledge and better understanding, on how God continues to work through regular ordinary men ordained as prophets and apostles to bring His gospel to the whole world!
@@shawnbradford2243 I could say the same to you, Just keep on repeating it "I know Dr John Dehlin is a critical thinker and knows better then I Shawn" if you say it enough it will be true!
The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction. The indigenous peoples of the American continent were a stone age people. They had not even figured out the wheel. So all these fantastic stories involving chariots, swords made of steel, and brass plates never existed. Metallurgy got as far as melting a little silver and gold. The early Americans were right on the cusp of a Bronze Age, but Cortez ended their advancement. This isn't anti-mormon propaganda, this is simply history. What's more likely, the Book of Mormon is a work of fanfiction? Or, there is a worldwide conspiracy to hide the artifacts of Lamanites and Nephites?
@@kenolson3064 cool, so exactly how many years ago did these so called indigenous peoples, of American continent, of the Stone Age people, that had not even figured out the wheel, begin?
He was a conman and a sexual predator and would be getting beat down in prison if he had lived in our day. He lived in the 19th century so they lynched his ass. Meh.
I just want to yell out how awesome Fawn Brodie’s No Man Knows My History is. I’m underlining in red and making margin notes !! Awesome reading! Grant Palmer is next for me. Thanks, John!
You may be interested in Hugh Nibley's "No Mam, That's Not History," in which he critiques Brodie's arguments.
@@jameshasapoint7628 Bravo.
I have that book. Very in depth and tons of research into the history of Joseph and America at the time.
Fawn Brodie provided the truth I needed at a pivotal point for me to see clearly thru the fairy tale of the First Vision.
@@savezelda Nibley is the classic apologist who wrote several books himself finding LDS related truths out of nothing. Compare what he wrote on the Book of Abraham to information provided by someone like Robert Richner. Though I will give Nibley this, he was the reason my shelf started to break. I likely wouldn’t have left the church if I hadn’t been a fan who at one time clung to his every word.
Thanks for the endorsement, John. Much appreciated.
You ok with #2 Dan?!??
@@UnderstandingMormonism I can’t argue with your opinion. I’m just glad to get mentioned in such kind words. I would only say that Brodie’s book is well written and complete, though it is a little out of date. We know far more than she could in 1945. Even though Bushman’s book is apologetic, I would have rated it higher.
Dan - You are a gentleman AND a scholar.
@@UnderstandingMormonism I'm not! Dan Vogel is number 1!
Thanks for your work and your scholarship!!!
No Man Knows My History is one of the most important books that I have ever read. It read it as a devout but curious Mormon teenager. Needless to say, it destroyed my faith in the Mormon church and saved me from a mission and the Masonic endowment ceremony. I can't thank her enough.
1. No man knows my history (Brodie)
2. Joseph smith the making of a prophet (Vogel)
3. Insiders view of Mormon origins (Palmer)
4. American crucifixion (beam)
5. Rough stone rolling (bushman)
No Man is an awesome read. How different actual history is, from what we have been taught, is truly astounding.
Need copies of all those books. Appreciate this! 😎👍
Thank you thank you. I had three of the five and are buying the last two! You are providing an amazing service! I wish I had know about you years ago!
Thank you so much for you support!
Dan Vogel is an exceptional scholar. I highly, highly recommend his works and videos. LOVE that he was mentioned in this video.
Has there been any new news about him? I noticed he has not put anything new up for a long time.
On your recommend my husband and I just listened to the recording of American Crucifixtion! OMG! Having been brought up R.L.D.S. Learned Soooooo much we had Never been taught or even heard of in church history....totally eye opening....even after all the Mormon Stories I’ve watched!...
Yesss!
Thank you for this wonderful list!
Just finished No Man Knows My History. I couldn't agree with you more John. It's an excellent book. Very entertaining as well. (I think I have more highlights on my Kindle than you do post it notes ☺️ for Brodie's book. I read ALL of the addenda as well~~they are truly the dessert after a full course meal.)
Love your new channel! Former Mormon from Missoula, Montana!
I appreciate this! I had only hear of two of these, so this has definitely increased my awareness of what's out there.
The missionaries stood at my door one day and asked why I no longer attend church. I leaned in close and said well elders its personal. You see ive been sleeping with my neighbors wife. They gasped. I said also ive been sleeping with that neighbors 15 year old daughter. They stammered in horror. I smiled and said oh wait that was Joseph Smith, not me. And they haven't been back yet.
Awesome 😆
She better have been a few months shy of 15, or 14 to be accurate.
Perfect!
@@skylerreddy5436 He has no integrity to defend. The record is clear.
Thanks! Your post was the best laugh I've had all day! I'm gonna steal it and use it myself. lol
Wow, when I was a tbm, I recall so many talking about that book as if it were written by the adversary itself.
I reread "Under the Banner of Heaven" again after following that case now in Idaho involving the murders of 2 children whose mom was in a Mormon break off group. As a nevermo with convert relatives, I found it intriguing how sometimes this whole belief system can go on a wrong path.
Yes Susan, that's an understatement! The weirdness up in Rexburg is a natural outgrowth from the church's emphasis on "personal revelation" and typical of what often happens in a cult.
I've noticed that it's downplayed that Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell are Mormons.
Outstanding review of No Man Knows.....
Love your enthusiasm!
Well done! Great list!
Thank you ❤️
Time to give Amazon some money ... Thanks John
I’m really baffled that FMB’s book has not been made into a Hollywood film by now. I mean JS’s story, a poor treasure digger crests this whole movement that ultimately leads to his death. It is a very dramatic story filled with necromancing magic in the night, deception, intrigue, love, war you name it. I can almost imagine a movie of treasure diggers in the night where the viewer doesn’t actually know if it’s a con or not. I mean you see all the suspicious stuff but don’t know if he actually sees anything on that stone. All that being said does the church own the rights to JS’s story or image? Or is it that no one will touch this material?
Truth is truly stranger, and more interesting than the wildest moments in the Book of Mormon. Epic movie material
You left out my favorite “Joseph Smith the First Mormon” by Donna Hill
Which would you remove?
Understanding Mormonism, of the books you listed I have only read Rough Stone Rolling. I thought Bushman interjected his own thoughts too often. Hill’s book, “Joseph Smith the First Mormon” was much more objective except for her chapter on polygamy where her opinion got in the way of her objectivity. BTW because of the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants I am a believer in Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God. My GG Grandfather was Joseph’s body guard, was a captain in the Nauvoo Legion, and a Danite and helped retrieve Joseph’s body following the martyrdom.
A book I recommend is “The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon’s Stories” by Don Bradley.
D. Michael Quinn's book on Mormonism and early folk magic w/ JS digging for treasure during that time period was very eye opening for me as well.
Cheers, John...l look forward to reading "No Man..." sounds fascinating.
I'm about fifty pages in and I love for all the reasons you, John, said. But another thing she does it tell the surrounding social story, just like what it was like to work in the developing US, and all of the other things that were going on at the same time. Great book!
American Crucifixion is outstanding! The audio version is phenomenal as well.
thanks was wondering how audio was!
Where can I find the audiobook?
Download the app overdrive. Put in your library card, if you dont have one, you can put in your phone number. I just downloaded it from there. And its completely free!
Excellent set of videos. Thank you.
Loved this!
Thank u , I've been waiting for this post I love reading 📚 especially if the Author is objective in views.
Cheers John! Keep up the great work! :D
I agree with your choice of Brodie being top of the list. Primarily because of who she was, and when it was written. When growing up in the Church here in Australia, this book and author were spoken of as if she were from the devil himself and the book a fiction of lies. Thankfully, she was brave enough to write and publish when she did. An honourable, intelligent, and powerful woman indeed. Can I also recommend Richard S Van Wagoner's book - Natural Born Seer Joseph Smith | American Prophet 1805-1830.
In my opinion, this book by Van Wagoner is right up there with Vogel and Brodie.
I am so grateful for these books. I read Bushman's and Brodie's, and I agree with John's analysis. Bushman's book felt slightly odd because of the apologetics, but I thought it was helpful to see how things look when construed in the best light possible. My impression is that Bushman himself is unenthusiastic about the apologetic reasoning. Does anyone else get that impression?
Well done! Joseph Smith paper’s project was enlightening for me during my transition. But I agree with you on the top five!
James Weller Haters will always find something or someone to hate.
@@barbsehestedt6894 For many of us who wasted significant portions of our lives as TBM, it's not a journey defined by hate so much as a quest for truth.
No Man Knows My History is only $2.90 in Kindle format! Another great episode of Understanding Mormonism!
I wanted to finish Rough Stone Rolling but just couldn't about 2/3 of the way through it. Still, I liked a lot about the part I did it. I love footnotes and was amply rewarded with many other resources to follow up on. Also, I loved learning more about charismatic aspects of the early church when speaking in tongues and visions were common, and how Joseph Smith reacted to that.
The book "Without Disclosing My True Identity-The Authorized and Official Biography of the Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr" .As a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I grew up with a great respect and admiration of Joseph Smith. As I grew older and learned more things I began to have some questions. This book explains who he was, what his life was about, his family dynamics and why he did some of the controversial and confusing things he did. Why did so many of his closest friends abandon him? Why didn’t Emma Smith and much of his family join with Brigham Young after his death? What was polygamy all about and is it really required of us if we want to live in the Celestial Kingdom? What is the Priesthood and who qualifies to receive it? This book answers all these questions and more. For the first time, his life and mission makes complete sense to me. This is a must read if you want to understand who this man really was. You will have a greater clarity than ever before by the time you finish the book.
Joseph smith was not the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints
@@mathonilamanita7029 Never heard of that book so I checked it out on Amazon. 800 pages seems like a lot of time to invest in an author who doesn't reveal their last name. I am curious to know what justifies that claim of "authorized and official biography" of JS. Authorized by whom?
Thanks John been wanting some advice on these books....trying to read Rough Stone Rolling....finding it interesting, but quite a chore to get through...
Sounds like it's a "rough stone reading"!
Myles Markson yes!
You had me sold on the Vogel book. Just not 200USD sold.
Great recommendations, great channel, love it!!
As a former LDS I thankfully learned quickly that he was a charlatan, a con man. I shake my head at that I gave six years f my life to that crap and then spent the next several years recovering. It is hard for me to understand how faithful mormons still buy this crap when it is fully exposed now. I learned this in the mid-eighties when you had to find paper documents.
If the chapters on Mormon scripture were just a little less apologetic. Rough Stone Rolling would be one of the best biographies/history books I ever have ever read.
Thanks for your take on these important books, John. Would love your comments on other well-researched and written books on Mormonism, including the more recent ones by Joanna Brooks (Mormonism and White Supremacy) and Benjamin E. Park (Kingdom of Nauvoo).
One Nation Under Gods by Richard Albanes is worth a read. Gives an in depth look at the early history of Mormonism and its leaders.
I thought for sure this book would be on the list. EXCELLENT book.
The best biography is his criminal record.
Joseph the conman of conmen.
Vogel's biography is available on Amazon Kindle for $8.99.
I think you should write a bio about him John. If nothing else it would be funny and entertaining!
…and then somebody would come along and adapt it to a Life of Brian/ Book of Mormon type musical.
I bought “No Man Knows My History” and just started reading it. I want to be a big fan of it as John appears to be (and others on the comment section). It’s entertaining and gripping but there are errors. She also does mind reading a lot. Example “Joseph liked preaching because it gave him an audience, and this was essential to Joseph Smith as it was food.” How in the world does Fawn know this? No sources cited. Just pure speculation. P.S. I left the church around 3 years ago and have no loyalty to the church whatsoever.
Dan Vogel's book is available on Kindle for $10. FYI
Dan Vogel's book is available in e-book form for $10 from Amazon: www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Making-Prophet-Biography/dp/1560851791
All the books mentioned are a must read. How anyone can read any of these books and remain a believing Mormon defies belief.
It is very simple. Read the Book of Mormon, and then sincerely ask our Heavenly Father, invoking the name of Jesus Christ, if it is true. The trick, though, is to endure to the end. My end is not far off. I'm 92. I'm grateful that as I wade through the avalanche of stuff like the above, the Holy Ghost still tells me it is.
@@edwardgabriel1946 : i have and I was clearly told it is not true but fake. And all the evidence supports the fact that it is a fake.
@@ewankerr3011 If you read the B of Mormon, and the Holy Ghost (am I right?) told you it is false, then you should go with it. With me, I heard the words, out loud, "You are doing the right thing" and just before I was baptized(in the name of Jesus Christ) saw flames coming from my chest. I told no one, afraid they would think I'm cuckoo. When I read of the tongues of flames that sat on the disciples (three years later) at Pentecost, I understood. So, friend, life goes by quickly and we shall soon know. I'm sure I will find out sooner then you, me being 92.
@@edwardgabriel1946 : I appreciate that you have lived a long life and that you are a person of faith who had some kind of religious experience that convinces them of the truth of their views/denomination/etc.
The problem I have with all these subjective experiences is that they are just that : Subjective. I have encountered a number of individuals who claim visions; eperiences; Jesus talking to them ; being "born again"; the Spirit living in them etc. I have no doubt that they are all sincere ( well some of them ) yet they preach a contradicrory message and gospel. Clearly, they cannot all be right.
@@ewankerr3011 I really love our country because of the religious freedom. My parents came to the USA because all the Christians were being slaughtered. I don't mind you thinking and voicing I am wrong. Early on in LDS history, members were physically injured and displaced. I think your efforts would be better used to convince others to repent of their sins. You don't believe the people mentioned above are sinners, do you? So many comments against LDS people and belief. My experience was not subjective - it was real. So, after you read the Book of Mormon, please describe what happened for you and what you learned wasn't true?
there was no joseph smith martyrdom.just saying.
I really love this book; Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon by Robert D. Anderson. It uses events in Joesph’s life to explain diffrent events in the book of mormon. It is really an intresting perspective
Can I make an interview with John Dehlin?
What about?
About life and future of the Lds church
There was someone, a man, who, say, in the last 20-30 years maybe, clearly more than a little jealous of Brodie's being long-heralded as the greatest biographer of Smith ever, and so he set out to write the definitive J. Smith bio--and after all his years of research and writing, to his credit, publicly concluded that the definitive Smith bio, was, in fact, that by Fawn Brodie.--Do you hapen to know who that was? one of your 7 suggestions, possibly? Thanks so much for the wonderful video. Btw, I am dismayed that the brilliant product of Brodie's objectivity could ever have been misconstrued by anyone as anything even remotely resembling a love letter. sadly symptomatic of a very sexist and miopic mindset. disappointing.
Is rough stone rolling available in Spanish?
Not sure!!!! I hope so!!!
I wish there was an audio version of Fawn Brodie's book. Does anyone know of one?
@@jameshasapoint7628 Who is satan?
@@jameshasapoint7628 I couldn't give you an answer on whether I agree with you or not because I have not examined the text. That's why I asked if there was an audiobook version. If I had the chance to read/listen to it I could then tell you if I agree or not. So, I guess you won't want to answer my question. Bummer.
@@jameshasapoint7628 What is your level of confidence in the existence of this being?
@@jameshasapoint7628 I'm am familiar with the idea of satan. But since you brought him up I wanted to know what your definition of him is. I'm middle-aged, so I've had a long time to think about this idea. I've never had any compelling reason to believe in him nor any compelling evidence. Would you be open to me asking about your belief in him? Did you mean to say you don't have a high level of confidence in his existence? Or at least greater confidence in a god than a devil?
Hey I want to ask since RUclips and social media sites are now tagging certain material as false or untrue. Like I know they are doing this to President Trumps tweets and posts why have they not done this to BoM videos? I mean I have seen they have some very well produced videos of BoM presenting it as history on RUclips.
No way you suggested under the banner of heaven
Joseph Smith was a bad bad man
Correction: "Your . . . . "
Will Understanding Mormonism eventually be added to the Open Stories Foundation... or...?
💙
There is only two books you need to read to understand Joseph Smith: The Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants. No one can rewrite these.
Here’s a RUclips audiobook of NMKMH that I’m about halfway through right now 💜:
ruclips.net/video/pDphVn0sMLg/видео.html
Wait but John, how could you judge Joseph for smearing women when they propose allegations against him, if you do that very thing?
I just finished Fawn Brodie's No Man Knows My History and it was a great read. Wow! I had no idea this book existed
How are you still a Mormon after all of this? It's like reading the Hadith objectively and remaining Muslim
What about Joseph Smith History in the Pearl of Great Price??😢👉👈
I don't know but I don't believe Joseph was a treasure hunter. He said he was employed by Josiah Stowell and
they did some digging and that's how the story came about that he was a money digger and that was it.
Joseph Smith Jnr is also guilty of blaspheming the Spirit because he claimed the Holy Spirit gave him the power to translate the Book of Mormon. Just come to me this very moment
Blasphemy, like sin are fictitious things. He was a con like all the other religious cons.
So he just shows how manipulative and dishonest critics are about the church when they present information. He just says that the legal marriageable age at the time was 14 and the age of consent was 10. But it's very interesting how whenever that critics talk about Joseph Smith marrying 14 year old girls they never mentioned that information. Of course they don't it wouldn't help their position at all. They talked on and on about how the church hides information, and yet they conveniently leave this information out. They take things out of historical, cultural, and social context, which is something that anyone who was really interested in the truth instead of their own bias interest, would do. And by the way, if you are thinking that woulden't happen in the twenty-first century. it does.
Joseph Smith was a very Sinful man..It is amazing a Church would be founded on him. But I figure if God Forgives Joseph Smith. I certainly do not have to worry about my salvation.
I just came to mock of Mormons by their beliefs. Enjoy the rest of the day.
Dehlin & family, negative video's against the CHURCH, is a result refusing to repent, from personal sins, now up to riches & honor.
The things you said about Dr. Bushman are not the things you said to Dr. Bushman when you interviewed him, Brother Dehlin. If you are at all impartial, you must admit that you continually "spin" things to match your current narrative, which, interestingly, supports you financially. I believe this makes you guilty of the same accusations you lob at Joseph and others. However, I feel you have goodness at your core and I believe your brothers and sisters in the gospel would still welcome your return to fellowship.
Your PHD doesn't apply to this field lil Johnny
How do we know the sources are not contaminated why not just read the book of Mormon Bible Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price with open mind and heart ask Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ if what they contain is the truth cast out perceived gaslight assumptions with questions of eternal life and salvation dont take anybody's word seek the Lord not man's wisdom God bless you in your search
Robert Lewis Because most people have read all of those books. After finding out about history and current events in the church - it’s all a lie.
I'm sorry that's the way you feel it's troublesome when people that we think are pretty much perfect turns out Prophets and apostles are imperfect like us even though I have been inactive for 10 years I have had the witness of the Holy Spirit of the truth that Joseph Smith is the Lord's Prophet and if it takes faith to move forward in this life which it does I'm going to put it on the Lord God bless you
I find it interesting you talk how awful he was for taking a 14 year old to wife, but who made that law? Who ran the state to allow it?
Just like the guy who bought a temple recommend from a disgruntled church member so he could sneak in and see just what crazy things we were up to. He was converted and baptized ! True Christians have always been persecuted ! I would expect nothing less in our day. By their fruits you will know them ! The Church of Jesus Christ is either Christs true Church or the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in the history of the world. Only time or the Spirit of God will tell ! You decide !
Greatest Fraud -- there is not one in a trillion chance that Joseph Smith was called of God.
fawn Brodie said it best in the second chapter of her book " Mormon and non Mormon accounts seem to conflict at every turn" your "truth" will completely differ from the "truth" of Richard bushman or a devout practicing Latter Day Saint. You choose the facts that you want to believe, that's where we get this great divide in what is "true" we cannot know in this life. Each side will take their "facts" and act as if they were there but this just isn't the case. Where can you find truth in testimonials that convey opposite truths from the same event? You cannot.
I totally disagree. All evidence points to Joseph Smith being a charlatan and to the church covering it up for over a century.
@@UnderstandingMormonism I think that we both know that statement isn't true. There are countless testimonials of the true prophetic calling of Joseph Smith. All these events are follied by two differing sides of the same coin. Where can we find truth in differing testimonials of the same event? Should we take those who left the church or were excommunicated? or those who loved Joseph to the death and would never deny him? both are equally unreliable by their obvious bias. We can't live in this time, no one living has spoken or walked with Joseph smith so for you to say your claims are 100% reliable is dishonest.
Love the content, John...BUT OH MY GOD STOP THE JUMP CUTS THIS EDITING IS HORRIBLE.
Carah - Many love it! Argh!!!
Yes! I love it! I wish John would have 2 versions of Mormon Stories episodes: the complete version and the edited version.
I have no problem with Joseph Smith, he is a great man! I am very glad at this period of time books like these are available for us to read and understand how difficult it is for a Prophet of God to deal with the challenges of life! These books are a great inspiration and makes me think of other Prophets in the Bible and Book of Mormon, I wold love to read the biography of Moses as he lived half of his life as an Egyptian, I couldn't imagine what he went through! Also Alma, his biography would be intense! We are blessed in these last days with greater knowledge and better understanding, on how God continues to work through regular ordinary men ordained as prophets and apostles to bring His gospel to the whole world!
😂😂😂 just keep repeating it “I know the bom is true I know Joseph was a prophet” if you say it enough it will be true
@@shawnbradford2243 I could say the same to you, Just keep on repeating it "I know Dr John Dehlin is a critical thinker and knows better then I Shawn" if you say it enough it will be true!
The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction.
The indigenous peoples of the American continent were a stone age people. They had not even figured out the wheel. So all these fantastic stories involving chariots, swords made of steel, and brass plates never existed. Metallurgy got as far as melting a little silver and gold.
The early Americans were right on the cusp of a Bronze Age, but Cortez ended their advancement.
This isn't anti-mormon propaganda, this is simply history.
What's more likely, the Book of Mormon is a work of fanfiction?
Or, there is a worldwide conspiracy to hide the artifacts of Lamanites and Nephites?
@@kenolson3064 cool, so exactly how many years ago did these so called indigenous peoples, of American continent, of the Stone Age people, that had not even figured out the wheel, begin?
He was a conman and a sexual predator and would be getting beat down in prison if he had lived in our day. He lived in the 19th century so they lynched his ass. Meh.