How an Orthodox Mormon Mom Lost Faith in Joseph Smith & the Book of Mormon
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Mormon Stories guest, Gretchen Day, explains how her research into LDS church history led to cracks in her testimony of Joseph Smith as a prophet, and the Book of Mormon itself. She also discusses how her disgust in Polygamy led her to question Jospeh Smith's integrity and validity as a prophet of God.
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode number 1392 - “The Faith Journey of an Ultra-Orthodox, Utah County Mormon Mom: Gretchen Day”
The full interview can be found at: • The Faith Journey of a...
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#bookofmormon #josephsmith #polygamy
Wow... Another fantastic interview!!! As with most of your interviews I can relate to every word she said. Incredibly heartbreaking when a person finally realizes their entire life has been a lie. Even worse, we’ve been lied to by people we look up to, respect and TRUST just a name a few. Who do we trust now?
I’m not a Mormon, never been a Mormon, heck, not sure if I’ve ever met a Mormon before. I find this all fascinating. This lady, is down home bad ass 😃. Love it!
Really? So you’ve never had any Mormon missionaries knock on your door?
Wow! I was a convert for 29 years. I started to read the Bible, I mean really reading it, and praying in tongues , which the LDS only believe one version of that (the Bible teaches there are two), and after I started comparing the teachings in the Bible with the D & C, it was clear that the D & C was in opposition to the Bible even though the Church’s position is that they believe the Bible so far as it’s translated correctly. But that’s a huge lie! They quote the Bible where it agrees with the D & C but ignore the parts that disagree. I see the deception so clearly now, but I’m still recovering from the abuse and the lies. But Jesus is still my savior. I don’t need President / Mormon Pope Nelson to mediate between me and God.
I lived in Queens for most of my life; and here in Florida for 8 years and nope! They haven’t made it here yet lol - Jehovah’s Witnesses we get
As a Methodist I can safely tell you; just because you mention Jesus doesn’t make you a Christian. Mormonism is not a Christian religion; Islam mentions Jesus too as a prophet. Good that you - very good. Have joined a real church
You will likely want to get re-baptized as the Mormon one probably is questionable
I use to be so strong in the LDS church and I now I struggle with it. I realize how wrong I was for judging people that were leaving the church. Thanks for this John
Stop it. You were never strong LDS. Just a pretender...
@@johnlee1352 you are a denier of your faith. The LDS church teaches virtue in the 11th Article of Faith. Why arent you complying? Are you faithless? Or wicked?
Amen brother. Same here.
Native Americans are coming forth in these latter days ... Our culture and our history is a testament to Jesus Christ visiting the Americas before Christianity came over with their Bible.. did you know the anaszi knew of Jesus Christ?? Their drawings align with the winter and summer solstice to light up and tell you the stories of Christ... In south Dakota bear butte mountain the natives tell of the mountain coming alive walking as a bear and laying down on its enemies.. natives had prophecy of Joseph Smith they called him the all sewn up man.. the red lakes people tell their enemies or adversaries to bury their weapons and make oaths to never bring them up again.. do any of these stories sound familiar?? If right now you see gentiles leaving in mass exodus and native tribes from north America to south America carrying the mantle forward??? Where was that prophesied?? Try D&C ... Brother Satan is coming at you full force but as the Lord said evidence shall power forth from the ground, the stars and moon testify during theses solstices... Look deeper brother.. step back from that and tackle it from outside the box ... Wars upon wars , families becoming non existent, .. look on Facebook comments to see the very definition of pride and haughtiness...
@@johnlee1352 Sorry you feel that way. It must be difficult for you to see good members of the Church leave the faith.
I have a great deal of sympathy for this woman. A generation ago, I pointed out to LDS missionaries all the stuff she said about the BOM and the Book of Abraham; the First Vision stories; Joseph Smith's early career as a treasure seeker etc. It was always dismissed as anti-Mormon propaganda. They simply refused to consider it.
I was a missionary twenty years ago and I can attest that ALL of those things I was told not to look into because they were just anti-mormon lies. Now the church does not even deny most of those issues, they simply deflect the subject and start talking about how you need to have faith that God works with imperfect people.
I am personally still angry that the church KNEW all along about these things and lied to me and let me become an unwitting liar to hundreds of people I talked to on my mission.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 : Appreciate your comments. In the pre- internet age this stuff was much less well known, but was known and available. However, most LDS missionaries simply refused to consider any of it.
@@ewankerr3011 I agree, I did hear a few people bring up a few issues and I dismissed them as anti-mormon lies without any desire to look them up. We as missionaries were told what was approved and not approved for us to study. We actually could have been in trouble if it was discovered that we were reading "anti-mormon" materials...
It sounds silly now as a middle aged man.
You are speaking about my entire family and extended family.😢 Blind ,deaf, judgmental of those who leave. They are trying so very hard to be faithful. I love them.💔 They think of me in outer darkness, but l am following after the Biblical Christ and Biblical gospel.
@@cc-mk2hp : It is common for some religious groups to feel that those who abandon their church are 'lost'. They probably grieve for you. All you can do is to continue loving them and try to respect them. But how do you know that you are now following the 'Biblical Christ and the Biblical gospel'? There will be other Christian groups who still feel that you are lost and even other large groups such as the Roman Catholic Church who claim that they are the 'one true faith.'
Great video! Really breaks down the journey of a Mormon when they they decide they want to “learn more” and it usually ends up with extreme confusion and frustration
Same with Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a JW and was endoctrinated and brainwashed in all the lies. Very very demonic cult. On the outside it seems like a great place to be. But once you're baptized you are treated like a SLAVE. I was 😨 FEAR mongered to death and always made to feel like you could not do enough. Suicides and child SEXUAL ABUSE was very prevelant and no one knew the depths of problem. It was kept from us. Both of these groups have false leaders and they will all pay. God will punish and destroy these sick so called RELIGIOUS leaders. They have severely abused the members.
Please do more of these shorter condensed versions. They are great
Thanks for the feedback and support!
@@UnderstandingMormonism I agree, I like to listen to the entire interviews but It is great to see the most important moments in short 10 to 15 minute clips for future reference (or to decide if you want to invest 4 hours on the interview)
I agree.
Excellent Excellent video. I am so glad that people are waking up and leaving this CULT
"If you're not teaching it regularly, you're hiding it." We stan Gretchen
Amen to that. If you are not teaching it regularly, You Are Hiding It! ❤🕊 Come out of her, my people!!
Joseph Smith is the hardest to let go, because once you realize he was not a prophet, the rest of the church is false. No ifs ands or buts. If Joseph really was not a prophet, the church of jesus christ of latterday saints started as a con and is not a true religion. Let Joseph Smith go, and you let go of the rest of the church. It falls
Absolutely! Once Joe Smith is defrocked and exposed, the whole house of cards tumbles in after him.
At first I tried hard to revise and update my so-called testimony to coincide w/ the shifting sand of continual changes I was trying hard to ignore on a near daily basis, but simply could not keep up!
Eventually, the distortion and conflict between the various versions of truth being continually updated required too much fine-tuning and I was forced to give up and throw in the towel along w/ my recommend.
I had to concede defeat, but did not relish the idea of cashing in my chips because it meant I was adrift, lost at sea, marooned, on my own, sans map or compass to guide me the remainder of my long journey home thru a dark and starless night.
Finding out you've been deceived all your life, by people you were told to entrust your "eternal soul" with, that's what hurts. It's not just that the narrative isn't true, but that the truth was intentionally hidden.
Very hard to reconcile things that you know deep down don’t add up, but you want to, to enable yourself to keep the LDS faith. All we all want is the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Good job on condensing and coalescing the highlights.
I love the explanation of why people stay in the church. It would be AWESOME to have a video that, across interviews addresses why people stay Mormon when they aren't literal believers and what was their last straw. Like, 20 minutes of why folks stayed and why they left, with links to their full interviews. I'm really enjoying the short form videos in this channel!
Great suggestion, Tori! We will try to produce a clip like that in the future.
I empathize so deeply with this, especially about what to do now that I know like your very articulate guest that I wasn’t accidentally taught untruth, that it was calculated and intentional. That missionaries are themselves used as tools to manipulate the emotions of people who are perhaps at their most vulnerable. But to be a “worthy” person especially if you were gendered as male at birth, you must serve a full time mission and return with “honor”. It’s wrong.
this was such a great video. these full podcasts are lengthy but oh so worth it.
At the end of the day... Every generation "lifts their knuckles an inch higher off the ground". Good for her.
I am so visual I can't stop laughing. I think I will got to shave my arms.
the moment you stop and think critically, you lose faith...
Yes, l was shamed and chastised for my critical thinking while in young women's by
" priesthood," by teachers, by every member l spoke to.😢 It is difficult to stand up and ask questions. I have been completely discredited by my family.
The Lord , the True Biblical Jesus Christ is my light out here (in outer darkness.)🙏❤There is nothing they can do or say that will shake me now. Christ and The Father who sent Him have become Everything to me on this difficult journey. God works all things to the good.❤🕊🙏Praise to the Lord God Almighty , The King of Creation!!🙌🙏❤
I appreciate the opportunity to hear her experiences and story. So full of passion.
Unfortunately, near the end, there was a comparison made between the death of a child and the faith transition.
Having been through both, and not normally a overlly sensitive person, this hit hard. The loss of a child is a tragedy it a whole different category. I think it is one of those things that we do not get to use as an example unless we are unfortunate enough to know what really means.
Jolie, l am so sorry for your loss. May you be comforted.❤🙏🕊
The best cure for Mormonism is educating yourself about Mormonism.
Thank God people are waking up and leaving cults!
I felt so guilty and anguished over impure thoughts as a young boy and man. To think, if I knew just how lecherous Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and the Brethren were...
Good for you sister! Keep seeking the truth! What until you meet Jesus! It will blow you mind.
This is one of the best interviews - as yet.
She went DEEEEEEEP in terms of research and study.
Only TRUTH can set you FREE, indeed.
Fantastic, phenomenal, and insightful interview! Loved hearing her story from this well-condensed version.
Thanks for listening
Appreciate these condensed versions as I haven’t had much time to watch the full versions lately. I’ve been watching a lot of these “ex Mormon” testimonies the last year and have a question. Where in the world is Jesus in Mormonism? Nearly every interview I watch, no talk of all of us being sinners in need of a savior, no talk about Jesus taking our punishment we deserve for our sins onto himself as a sacrifice and us being made right with God by repenting and putting our trust in Christ alone. What I’m seeing instead is people who were taught to idolize Joseph Smith, obey Mormon Church authorities without question, and that if you obey their list of rules well enough, you can earn your way to heaven. What in the world is going on behind Mormon church doors to produce this thinking? If you watch enough of these interviews you can clearly see the emotional trauma this is creating for its members.
Indeed, we were taught that it's the church of christ, but nothing in that religion is christlike. When I was a young mormon girl, I was astonished to realize that most of what Jesus taught was love and not rules. But mormons teach that we are supposed to be obedient at all times, they even teach a different definition of "cult" so we don't question if we are a part of one. It's very bad. Great comment.
Appreciate your post. Very insightful. God Bless.
One of my sisters lost her faith in Mormonism through reading Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery's fine biography of Emma Smith entitled Mormon Enigma. The polygamy issue was the absolute final straw for her. It was one of the inflection points for me as well. I had some notion that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. I had no idea how prolific he was.
Thank you for the ref. Blessings to you in Jesus.❤🙏
I left the LDS over 40 years ago. The reason was the Book of Mormon was just a fable and not true. It was the foundation of the Church and if it is just a story, then the whole Church collapses.
Yawn...predictions of the decline of the church have been non-stop since 1830. Your post could have been in the Nauvoo Expositor! Meanwhile, 17+ million members later... According to US News and World Report, the Mormon faith is the ONLY major faith group in the US to experience growth in the last decade. Keep whistling past that graveyard.
That was the point for me! I just started to think about JS and his wives. OMG it was 40 years in the church. Right now I just starte to building everything in side my brain. And it's hard. But I'm feel much better right now. Thanks for sharing this.
this has inspired me to go listen to the longer version. Thanks for making this!
Thanks for listening!
I would absolutely LOVE to be a guest! I've had my own podcast for over 4 years (not on this topic), am an author, coach and speaker, and an ex-Mormon. From converted to confused to convicted it wasn't true - even with threats from family. I joined the church at 17, was in it for 17 years (13 with a temple recommend), and left it 16 years ago. Still, the "baggage" comes up at times.
I will look for you , Mom of 18. ❤So happy you got free! I did too, from a pioneer stock family. Wow. That has been a journey! 🕊
Your story is so deep. I watch your story even if it was last year. And it hits me so hard in my heart. I know the church is not true. But I hang on because I am African American no family in Utah go to the U of U to finish my education then I am out of Utah. I hang on for some stupid reason because of community and I hate it so very much. I hate going to church. How can these people look in the face every Sunday and shake my hand and truly believe that I am or was cursed with dark skin? But I getting out. Thank you so much for your story. It means so much to me. Steve
Thanks Gretchen for your story.
Your guest was totally immersed in Mormonism and still had the strength to follow her convictions. I admire her for that. I still avoid criticizing Joseph Smith. I have to admit though that even after all he was able to accomplish He made colossal blunders everywhere he went. I don't think anyone can apologize away his polygamy fiasco.
You don't need to avoid criticizing Joseph Smith. He began his public career as a con artists years before he invented the Book Of Mormon story.
Stories like this a relatively common among ex-mormons: they are CONVINCED their religion is absolutely, positively true, and THEREFORE, they don't have to be afraid of facts and truth....and THEN they eventually come across the historical facts and truth of the church and....they drop the whole business like a load of crap. I really RESPECT them for that level of integrity and...it's an interesting paradox that it's the mormon church ITSELF that engendered that integrity into them, by putting the "truth" of mormonism front and center, LOLOLOL.
The "brethren" are so thoroughly adept at the brain washing and at their appearance of good, l am now astonished when l see a clip of conference. I am also nauseas and distressed so that l cannot watch for more that a minute or two. The PTSD is intense. My awareness of their controlling methods and their wicked ways is more than l can tolerate in large chunks. I pray that many, many may awaken from this Freemasonic evil, and come to the true Christ of the holy Bible. Only He has the power to save.❤🕊🙏 p s. Check out author Steven Hassan on cults and brainwashing.
Must watch for any Mormon. The last few minutes are triggering. My heart is racing. So true.
From Book of Mormon inaccuracies... Also doesn't make sense that 'Christ' is referenced in the Book of Mormon when 'Christ' is a moniker derived from Greek. Especially a title in Greek after his time. A Jew wouldn't call Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ. The closest they'd call such an entity is Yeshua. It's just as odd as reading something of a Latin text and finding simplified Chinese in it from a period in the future in a book preceding that civilization.
Alot of people in Christianity believe Jesus Christ is a first name last name... um no.... lol. It's a title proceeding a Hebrew name. ησοῦς χριστός would've been pronounced 'EE-sus Hx're-stos', in the Greek where you would get the closest Jesus Christ pronunciation to derive.
What did it for me, was my hobby for speed reading early century literature to understand cultures and grasp the idea of concepts and politics in place at that time. I came across 'The First Book of Napoleon, The Tyrant of the Earth'. The narrative was peculiar and fanciful, but the diction and context match the Book of Mormon to a 'T' , the 'It came to pass', the 'Lo, and Behold', 'Behold', the use of odd archaic speak', the use of 'Adieau'' oddly placed in the Book of Mormon. Suffice to say Joseph Smith copied a lot of little bits, ideas, and whole quotes from not only this book but also other literature at his time. I'm sure the 'borrowing idea device' played into the conversion to his movement as if a call from divinity or God to lead people to his movement if people were aware of similar works and literature.
As for Priesthood and Pre-existence, and its structure... I did a lot of research on that as well. Joseph Smith copied a lot of bits and pieces from Kabbalahism and esoteric Jewish mysticism. The numerology (3, 5, 7, 8, 12, 70) in Mormonism used is a complete plagiarize from early Occultism (when Occultism was more mirroring that of practiced Jewish mysticism) and Kahbalism - individuals sold on such a notion of belief believed in numeric formulas to derive justified rationality to presume they received authority from God from the empowered idea/impression they got/ being enchanted by God.
The book of Abraham is nearly a full plagiarized copy from the Zohar (Including the concept of the revolution of the Planet being 1000 years and Joseph Smith's inferred Abrahamic astronomy). The Zohar is just chalk-full of allegories and coded fiction to keep its own information from its own community hidden, but nutty people read it and presume it's a verbatim story or empowers their own imagination to presume that the device of the literature is literal and divination of God. The Zohar would've been studied by Joseph Smith at the time of Navoo and would've more than likely been a book he came across when he was learning Hebrew from a Rabbi. The idea of Elder, High Priest, their duties, Melkizedick Priesthood, Aaronic Priesthood, reality duality 'temporal/spiritually refined' would've also come from Kaballahism as well. The idea 'ward' would've come from Jewish mysticism that used rituals to establish 'wards' to sanctify and create 'safe' spiritual places.
The idea of polygamy may have appeared to come from Islam more. Joseph Smith implied in a few contexts of how greater he was from Muhammed and it wouldn't surprise me if he adopted the idea from Islam itself and studying the early Judaism culture that practiced polygamy taking on after one's Brother's inheritence.
If you have a group of people live by the direct utility of words and communication and they encounter another civilization's literature for device and more complex ideologues for allegory or for fiction, that more simple people will always read those devices as literal as they know no different and they are more captivated by the wonder.
Personally, I just see a lot of the framing from where Joseph Smith picked up such concepts and ideas from anything he encountered. Twisted the device and systems to his own narrative and direction and adapted that into his 'hobby' movement to turn into 'his' religion. (I say hobby as Joseph Smith attended his Wife Emma's church Protestiscm until he could adapt his own ideas and concepts into his own system and implement the idea of Priesthood more readily at the time of Nauvoo.) The sick thing to me is getting the notion that Joseph Smith accepted the idea that his movement and church was his own sense of property and 'proprietorship' to own people and their lives. It may also explain why the ex-communications around this time didn't fall in line with the character of transgression that was taught.
Church and how they are 'mystically' structure is a very sore topic for me. With how much our human soul longs to be a part of something and presumes to find a continuity of wonder to our existence it is too easy to fall prey to our own imaginative mind coping with understanding and beholding our own existence to adapt and believe a structure or 'shelter of soul and purpose' for reality. To me, It's not a paradise, it's a conceited existence set on a path of idiosyncratic existentialism, mixed combfortable bias, and a notion of divisive deeply naive cruelty being painted to look like order, justice, principle, and benevolence.
I know this is true. "If truth we have, it cannot be destroyed. If truth not we have, it ought to be destroyed."
Two lines in...yawn...
@@johnlee1352 Your ignorance is unbelievably potent...
Excellent post. I am a non-member of this church and a history nerd. Appreciate your research. God Bless. Have a great week and New Year.
I consider myself a former Mormon although I have not officially asked that my recorded be deleted, or whatever the process is. I maintain my nominal membership only because of family considerations. They just think I'm inactive, and I'm OK with that. My family joined the church when I was 17 years old, which was way back in the mid-1960s. I was always uncertain about some of the church's teachings, but I basically ignored my feelings and went along with whatever was taught, and it was better for me because my parents and siblings were LDS. Some former members talk about the different aspects that shook their faith, but with me it was something totally different. I read a paperback book called "The Mormon Murders" about Mark Hoffman and how he sold fraudulent "historic documents" to the church, fooling even the president himself. How could a prophet be fooled, someone who is supposed to have the gift of discernment given by the Holy Ghost? Later, someone I knew was excommunicated from the church because of an outlandishly false accusation made by his wife who just wanted to divorce him. Local church leaders sided with her, believing her even though he had been a member for a longer time and was always a faithful member. I knew him since we were kids, and I was positive he was not capable of doing what his wife accused him of. So, where was the discernment the elders were supposed to possess? Later, more things began to unravel, but that book was the start, as hard as it may be to believe.
Guess what? I consider you to be a former Mormon as well! Your weakness and confusion gave you away. Reading a paperback book, I suspect, is the extent of your religious inquiries. Nothing has "unraveled" as you never had a real testimony. Isaac was fooled by Jacob to get his blessing. Prophets are not omniscient. You need to leave. Your fecklessness and dithering is embarrassing. We'll eventually have to throw you out so please save us the trouble. Bye.
And yet we still have millions of "intelligent" people, well read people who believe this stuff. My daughter is one of these people. They cling as hard as they can to the lies because they think they will find comfort. It is an ongoing, empty struggle. So sad!
Peace for all believers during this most holy of weeks in Christianity!
I am a grateful exmo. Who loves my family. 💔They love the lie because it is tied to their eternal families, their dreams of godhood ,👑👑 godhood shared with spouses and endless spouses and eternal celestial 💥sex, their own worlds,And This right here 👉💖their children sealed to them💖...who they will never lose, their belief that they have the superior church and community, are the 😉elect. Pride and idolatry that isn't even visible to them. Following after false Freemasonic gods of 😒Joseph's creation. It is the same lie as in the garden. You shall be as the gods! It is💔 too painful and too 😱frightening to even consider that they may be wrong than to worship the True Biblical God of the Bible, and live 🙏His Gospel. Were they blessed with a love of the truth???Do they love the Lord with all their heart , mind
and soul? Does anyone? Choosing Him is a start. 😢
I grieve and pray for them everyday.💔😢
@@cc-mk2hp I pray for them every day, as well. We have been given a gift of earthly life to prep for eternal life - one chance, not endless chances after physical death!
Peace!😇
Thank you!!! I’ve been searching for a short one to post that says most of the things I want to say!!!
Do a search online: "Were there horses in America before Columbus?" Guess what.
Every so often I would like to upvote twice.
Bravo! 👏 great interview!
Why don't you do a show on B. Y. John. Nary a word about the _urd. Why doesn't the church teach more about him? Are they afraid more people will leave?
I found the best way to loose faith in the Book Of Mormon is to read it, and the Pearl of Great Nonsense.
Loved this interview. It’s one of my favorites.
Smart woman who dares to use the brain God gave her.
Admirable yes but women like this are usually trouble makers.
@@kennance115 you mean troublesome to men who tell lies.
Much admiration for her.
These highlights are great. She could be any relief society president in any ward who finds out the truth.
Expose the truths
And set them free
I was looking for what happened, what shock or trauma enabled Gretchen to consider the information swarming just outside the Mormon tribal bubble, perhaps created by our innate fear of the perils of exile.
12:48 Oh, man. We’ve all been there. I think I had this exact thought in the middle of reading the CES letter.
Nice bold concise statement 🙏
I stayed in the LDS church for several years after I became an atheist. It was all I knew. I seem to remember seeing some research years ago in "Dialogue" that about 5-6% of active Mormons don't really believe in it; they stay for a family member or whatever. This includes leaders like bishops. I wonder if any General Authorities fall into that category. They have more to lose than anyone if they leave.
I think that General Authorities are true believers, but I mean that in the "family business" kind of way. They dedicated their lives to the church and many, if not the majority of them are from a legacy Mormon family. Most apostles are descendants of previous apostles. So they probably grew up knowing that they were being groomed to be a church leader and they were probably aware of "how the sausage is made" with regard to how the church operates behind the scenes. So, I am not sure how many actually believe that Joseph smith was literally visited by God and Jesus and was called to be a prophet, but I think that they believe that they were born into the right circumstances to become a church leader because they are somehow special.
I personally am disgusted by this (that it is basically a family business and decedents of past church leaders are groomed to become future church leaders) but it is undeniable that this is what is going on.
I'm part of this 5-6%. For few years now, I quietly go to church, fulfill my calling and put on the happy face....oh yea ..and every two years I have to lie in a temple recommend, just so I can keep peace in the family. At least I can sit there and play along with with the game and know there are not any eternal consequences as I once thought there was.
@@parkerplace2910 Do you ever hate yourself for being a poser and a fraud in you own church? I know I do...
@@johnlee1352 A couple years ago I was honest with my bishop and stake president that I was having doubts. After me pointing out many descrepancies in the church history and showing verifiable instances of dishonesty from our church leaders, it was actually my Bishop who implied I should stay in the church "even if it is not true because it is still a good place to raise kids". So my Bishop was not willing to admit the church isn't true outright but he did so with a tacit wink and a nod and then said he knows others who also don't literally believe in the claims but still enjoy the fellowship of the organization. This seems to be the plan B church leaders use when they are presented with historical facts that discredit church claims.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I think you misunderstood my last post...I was saying that I also hate him for being a fraud and a poser. I am not a fraud or a poser like C DQ. I know you smelled doubt based on your interpretation and thus your smarmy reply. No, I'm not grist for your deconversion mill...sorry to disappoint. BTW...it is a great place to raise kids.
Excellent video.
Joseph was my hero.
This ladies story is powerful. You cannot find a more knowledgeable and faithful Mormon but look how the foundation of the LDS Church is so shaky that no amount of information suppression can keep the truth from being revealed. I pray the LDS Church will fall.
Her "Spiritual Experience" when praying about polygamy and getting the answer what Joseph Smith did was wrong, was not a spiritual experience. She had that conclusion already in her conscience, and when she asked, her resolve was of her own creation. Not a real connection with a deity answering her ask. Anyone with standards can research what the early church leaders did and come to the conclusion what they did, how they behaved was wrong. You dont need a god to tell you that
Agreed. If anything, she just used the brain God gave her to find truth. (:
Wait, you're saying the BOM is Christian fan fiction?? (I think so too)
Were the pre-mortal spirits perfect?
If they were, why have these spirits required to come to 🌍 and be perfected?
Job is not true?! JK Honestly, that was one of the first books to go when I started questioning things.
I watched the longer version and not keen on these short ones.
Where does John stand?
On top of that you should not expect a savior like the Jesus character...it's not coming.
It's nice when you like move past "satan vs god" and don't believe in any of this.
2 Cor. 11:4
Book of Mormon is the book to have MORe MONey that is the straight meaning of MORMON Mormon means MORe MONey 💵💰💸💲☝️🤞💰
almighty dollar is true after all... ☝️ The meaning of MORMON as MORe MONey came from the Philippines 🇵🇭👈🏾
galing ng Pinoy 🙏
DOLLAR WHO AKBAR!
in god the almighty dollar we all trust so we could buy a McDonald's burger 🍔 to eat 😋but try Jollibee anyhow 🇵🇭
"The Book Of Job may have been myth."
D'ya think?
Don't loose faith in Jesus of the Bible! Love you and God bless!
Thank you for speaking up. After leaving Mormonism, I have had strong spiritual experiences with Jesus.
When John admitted that he used to see women as objects for his pleasure, I stopped liking him. I get it, but I don’t like him anymore.
Almost like it is a great fantasy, have to really work your brane to believe everything, you are taught.
Left CHRISTIANITY, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, refused to repent, from personal sins, make excuses.
Lots of fear
So tell us, what do you believe?
"Polygamy is not of God"Abraham practiced Polygamy how could it not be of God,it's even in Torah Law and btw that's why Muslims allow it as well,Joseph Smith stole a lot from NT but also from OT and Mormonism is really a blend,what a daft thing to say...oh and bear in mind I'm an Atheist,I don't have a dog in this fight,I'm just saying that it's theologically incorrect,cause these things are A-Ok in the Bible...Oh and I checked her channel,she's joined the progressive cult,of fear(and not choice)that she's gonna promote now.
Too bad so sad
The Angel and the Drawn sword story is not credible. Most of the sources are based on non first person accounts and we don't know if the phrase was altered. However, I do believe. If said by Joseph, the phrase was about Joseph being under condemnation if he did not comply and teach God's commandments. I have not seen any good evidence Joseph forced women to marry him or forced the idea of polygamy. It was unlike his character and first person accounts like with Lucy Walker contradict such notions.
note: God does not care how may wife's you have if done in righteousness. He blessed Abraham who had many wifes. He blessed Jacob who had many wife's.
Joseph smith wouldn't have to literally force women to marry him....he was their prophet, they were taught, conditioned to do whatever he asked ..that is enough..
@@user-bw3fl7fj9w "Rumors and lies about a person can be fabricated by anyone. But what matters is the truth between you and God." - Kailin Gow
@@cdmbcgm enough women said something to that effect that it is VERY credible that Joseph used some form of that phrase to pressure women to marry him that otherwise would not have been willing to. In todays age, we understand power dynamics make consent cloudy at best or even not possible. We understand that if the boss asks his secretary on a date, her ability to consent is compromised because he doesn't even need to imply that her job or future promotions could be effected if she refuses his invitation. That is why is it taboo for a boss to come on to his subordinates.
Now, multiply that by a million when people think that you literally speak for God and you are telling young teenage girls that their eternal fate hangs on whether or not she marries him............ That is so wrong and no man of God would put people in those situations.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 My point was the account was secondary or tertiary. It maybe half truth or not true and was inconsistent with his other marriages and his personality. Many risk their salvation and attack the prophets of God because of the rumors. Woe to those that profess to believe in Christ but stone the prophets.
Mathew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
@@cdmbcgm Do you believe that God approved of Joseph Smith pressuring teenage girls (some who literally lived with him as an adopted child or a live in maid) to marry him? Do you really think God was okay with him offering them a free ticket into heaven (promising exaltation to Helen Mar Kimball and her family) if she agrees but spiritual destruction if they say no?
I find that most people lose faith because of adultery, fornication, porn, drugs, etc. They lose the spirit and receive the other spirit, who is the father of lies. Keep the commandments of God and receive revelation from him. Keep the commandments of the Adversary and receive revelation from him. Best of luck!!
Most people leave because of church history, and what the church has portrayed as truth.
Charlie King, I didn't leave the Mormons because I wanted to sin. I was in a temple marriage at the time. I was faithful to my husband. I kept the Word of Wisdom then and still do. Being female, I've never had much interest in porn. What actually happened was that I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon a little too carefully. I became convinced that the miracles described in them probably did not happen.
Charlie King, Joseph Smith lied repeatedly to Emma and the public regarding him marrying many women in secret. Joseph also pretended to have the ability to find treasure by looking at a rock in a hat. This method was a common scam known as "glass looking" and he was arrested and almost got convicted for it.
If you stick to the Book of Mormon , D&C and POGP.. you have the truth ,even if you can’t accept it . .... Most BYU professors today at best are anti- Mormon themselves and ant -Biblical for sure . Y’all keep trying to bend the scriptures to ease the pain of sin .
A classic ad hominem attack (translation: you've just lost the argument)
Kaiju sushi I think you’re using words you do not understand .. .. you’ve just lost the argument
That's what a shackled mind believes, anyway. Have a good day.
Alana Bils So you’re a believer
@@horton6951 Not at all. What I have seen and experienced in the church for the last four decades leads me to believe public relations and creative wordplay is now the Savior of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Another "trophy" video...yawn...
Where is your signature line, you know, ""Glad you left before we could kick you out!" ? You just can't leave Ex- members alone, can you? Get a life.
@@alananat6628 If they're here to denigrate my faith...I'll be here. If they leave it alone, I leave them alone. See how it works?
@@johnlee1352 Do you understand that it's okay for other people in and out of the church to NOT have the same experience as you? Do you realize your method of "defending the faith" is worse than remembers discussing their experiences? How do you rationalize your devilish behavior as you defend the mormon faith?
@@alananat6628 I am defending no faith. I'm only here to shepherd the idiots and offal from the church. That's all. I don't really care if you like my faith or not. Just have a look at the posts in this thread..."drown old Joe in teenage cooter", "cling as long as they can to the lies", etc., etc. etc. Discussing their experiences? I think not. Are you so blind with hatred as to not recognize hateful attacks against the honestly held faith of millions of good people? Do you condemn the denigration of my faith?
@@alananat6628 It's: "Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out." If you're going to mock me, at least have your facts straight, idiot.