John Larsen on the History of Racism in the LDS Church
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- John Larsen, host of Mormon Expressions Podcast, gives a brief history of race in the Book of Mormon, and how racism is built into the doctrine and framework of the LDS church.
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode number 1452 - “The Mormon Doctrine of Cain - John Larsen”
The full interview can be found here: • The Mormon Doctrine of...
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I like having the shorter clips. Then I often watch the whole interview.
I could not agree more...much easier to digest I find
Much easier to disseminate in this form.
At the end of this video he said : " Not all Mormons are racist, but Mormonism is racist". .. Exactly!.
so are non racist mormons jack mormons, appostates, or simply lazy?
@@gordonzio I think neither Gordon. Like the man said, most Mormons are not racists. It's the historical and canonized teachings that are.
Do you believe the non racist ones fall into one of the three categories you mentioned?.
@@TheShodan92 if the church teaches that blacks are less than and you are a tbm, does it make you a racist to believe blacks are less than? If you don't believe or follow the gospel you are a jack mormon an apostate or just plain lazy.
I grew up in the church being taught that blacks were less than. It is part of the reason I left. the gospel hasn't changed has it. if you are a tbm you are racist. please tell me where I'm wrong. Has the church stopped asking if you support your leaders and the profit in interviews? maybe they are not racist and simply liars.
...Unless you love the lord and book of mormon and despite your faithfulness and following the prophet like nature you just pick and choose what you are going to believe. just don't drink coffee.
If you support a religion that is racist, then you are an agent of racism.
Ninety percent of the people who are so called christians in the white church are racist The White church is inbred in racism The catholic church and most white dominations are racist not just the mormons.
I prefer these short videos instead of 2-3 hour long videos
Facts
Me too!!
John Larsen is one of the greats. It's always a treat when JD has him as a guest.
All Mormons are racist. That is the foundation of there beliefs
I found it ironic when "Fair Mormon" produced those "comedic" takedowns of the CES Letter, they used someone who Brigham Young would've executed for the crime of being born (mixed-race black guy).
So if what we do in our "pre-life" matters so much that it affects who we are on Earth, and we supposedly go to some sort of afterlife based on our actions on Earth........... then why even be on Earth? Why not just go from pre-life 2 afterlife?
I hope you don’t waste any more of your time trying to make sense of any of this… any of the Mormon teachings, doctrines, or so-called “scriptures”… because it’s all false. Joseph Smith was a false prophet, of the worst sort that Jesus warned us about. And so was Brigham Young false - and every single “prophet” and “apostle” and LDS president after them… up to this very day.
If you seek the truth, seek only after the true Jesus Christ (not the FALSE Jesus of Mormonism). Seek after Him only in His revealed word, only to be found in the Holy Bible - which is God’s preserved revelation to us all. Remember that Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my word will *never* pass away.
(The Mormon teaching that the Bible was corrupted is false heresy).
“I am the truth, the way, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.” - Jesus
NO ONE comes to the Father by Joseph Smith.
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”
- 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
@@stevesanders7217 : The Mormons were and are, greater than many other
Christians. They are 'Great TOP CLASS - manipulative DECIEVERS'!!!!🤣
It would be a nice touch to have the actual dateline on that news clipping. To just know exactly when and where stuff was happening. Dr. Dehlin is the nicest and most patient interviewer since Art Bell and Barry Farber.
I've never been a Mormon. Why would I want to be? I've recently started watching these podcasts, because all I know about Mormonism is the racism, the "plate reading" and some of the "woo-woo", non-Christian teachings. It's good to hear from people who know/understand this group. I like John Larson's frankness. He does not engage in sparing the feelings of practicing Mormons. He does not practice letting them down easy, issuing disclaimers and letting the truth land softly. He tells the plain truth. Truth doesn't need to be cloaked in apologies and consideration for the feelings of the offenders of truth. Talk your talk, John. I'm listening. Can't for the life of me figure out why a black person would want to be a part of this religion. Mormonism has made it very clear that we are considered unworthy and therefore, by their standards, should consider ourselves unworthy. When we love ourselves, that is not possible. However, there are some of us who are gluttons for punishment. Excellent work, John Larsen.
I had no idea that the Mormon version of the Bible changed the skin color of some people. That blows my mind. That's actually real?
Yes
And it gets worse from here.
Here is a good overview with regard to native americans from a 1979 Washington Post article: "Indians Hope To Shift Mormon View Of Their Skin Color"
www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/03/02/indians-hope-to-shift-mormon-view-of-their-skin-color/8d099524-23ae-484f-879a-c9ab5aad7eb5/
no
What is the source for BY striping the priesthood from black men? I'd be interested in reading that.
I can’t find it. This blog links to ordination records but I can’t find anything about his story he tells. www.keepapitchinin.org/2019/01/18/guest-post-newly-discovered-document-provides-dramatic-details-about-elijah-able-and-the-priesthood/
Not too long ago, the excommunicated were compelled to stand before the congregation, not the pulpit, and ask for forgiveness from them. Jesus atonement still not good enough.
OMG I am embarrassed to have been " born under the covenant " and been in that cult way too long.🤦♀️
This is not a cult. This is God’s kingdom upon the Earth. You have let Satan into your heart to tell you otherwise, though.
If you are a TBM you’re not even supposed to be watching material that’s not church sponsored.
The church fits the BITR model.
People who are in cults don’t realize they’re in cults until it’s either #1 too late or #2 they’re about to put one foot out the door.
IDK if you watch Dr. Dehlin. Keep watching, you may find something that EXMO’s, NOMO’s know about your church that it keeps hidden from their congregants. (Ie, second anointing).
I bought a copy of Lund's book years ago off eBay as a way to take a snapshot of that time.
Interesting points from church history I haven’t heard before.
If you want more on the subject, look up Reverend Amos Brown of the NAACP, he has some pertinent points to make about the LDS church.
I have the book on Elijah Able thanks John Larsen enjoy listening
Mormons believe that the Canaanites were black. DNA clearly shows the Canaanites were identical to the Israelites. Mormons, explain that to me.
@Eric Fritsch never heard that but RIC got a point
I can’t find episode 1451, this episode, on the Mormon stories podcast episodes. Was it removed?
Love the fire, wish there was more from exmo community.
Oh boy it’s unfortunate that gods true perfect church happens to be super racist haha 😂😂😭😭 awkward
It’s not mormonism that is racist; you all missing the point; you cant say you believe in God of Jacob and the Old Testament and ok with the racism of the Old Testament ( just read the Old Testament that is deep racism, God not only did not allow his people to mix with other races but he even commanded to slay them in many cases, the New Testament is full of racism, all the apostles in today’s term were racist ) BUT not ok with the racism of the Book Of Mormon; that is double standard, to point out of the racism of the Book Of Mormon but never mention the racism of the Bible; this therefore will lead to ‘you cant say you believe in the God of Old Testament but do not believe in his prophets and his Son; ‘You can’t say you believe in the Old Testament but do not believe in the Book of Mormon’ It is your faith that is wavering in the God of Jacob and Abraham and not alone in the God of the Book or Mormon and the restoration; similarly when the Savior shared some of the ‘depth of the Gospel’ in John 6, many of his disciples left him; they didn’t alone have faith problems in the Son of God, they had faith problems in the God of the Old Testament; John 6 “ 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." You are the ‘today’s’ many;
@@jeepmap1 : "Reading the bible" or KNOWING the "history
of the Bible" and how this book was pieced together, is completely
different !! Any great scripture can be abused and misused by any
DEVIL. The history of Christianity in Europe gained heavy influence,
after its development in Africa / Ethiopia. European settlers in the
America's were of what religion and what religious persecution
were they escaping in Europe ? Without knowledge of History, the
Mind would never be liberated and FREE !! 🤔 🤔🤔
"We're not racist! God is racist! Now we explain..."
@@HeyItsJayHobson don't make no sense
@@jeepmap1 mormanism is racist bro we don't live in the old testament smart guy, this Is the new testiment. IF YOUR NOT A JEW YOU ARENT GODS PEOPLE YOU ARE A GENTIAL, RN IM A SINNER BUT WHAT MATTERS NOW IN THE NEW TESTIMENT IS JESUS N JESUS ONLY I BELIEVE
No shit, my father who is Black and still a practicing member believes he is black because of disfavor and that any hardships he may encounter are predestined. Needless to say, that I, not being a self-loathing moron, have had my name removed from the records and for obvious reasons don't have a relationship with him.
Was that really I the book ? It looks like you taped it there ! Still I agree with you here. I ve heard this before in an old mormon' s children cartoon.
I was going to watch this because I thought it would help people understand this topic in an uplifting way, but sadly it is just another piece of ammo that Satan has fired to strike at the Church. But I am comforted by the voice of the Spirit that tells me that racism in the Church is not from God but from imperfect people who run it, that just because God sets a certain rule does not mean that rule is racist or sexist, and that no matter how hard cowards try to defeat the Church, it will stand strong until our Savior returns triumphant upon the face of the Earth.
Mormons: God would never let a Prophet lead the Church astray. God would literally kill that man first.
Also Mormons: Yeah those TEN Prophets that either introduced or upheld the decision to exclude an entire race of people from the blessings of the Temple based only on their skin color were acting as racist products of their time, under their own volition and totally not speaking for God. But the Prophet of today totally speaks for God 100% of the time don't worry about it.
Got it.
And this has happened countless times with doctrines and inner circle issues from the beginning of the church to the present. 200 years of lies, deception and contradiction from among the so called high ranking church brethren generation to generation and redefined doctrines go along with it. The prophets claim to follow a priesthood line that sustains revelation, yet once holding the same office, suddenly there contains very different stances and erased doctrines are the norm.
Moron it had nothing to do with skin color. Many black races could hold the LDS priesthood. Only those who of African slaves were denied it.
Can I push back a little?
Perhaps the "curse" isn't that the black skin would come unto all the Lamanites, just those that "sinned."
The mormon theology still retains its racist ideology and myths.
🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿 thankU son 🇺🇸🇺🇸
They believe in a contradicting God..my grandfather couldn’t have the priesthood (Holy Spirit ) but now all of a sudden he can ?
Can someone please tell me, how many wives did Joseph Smith have? Was it 40 or 42? Just wondering. Thanks for the post. Peace out
1972, not 1973.
💜
I believe we do pay to an extent from the sins of our ancestors.
Then you believe in slavery to some "extent", it's never acceptable and purely evil at all times.
@@stormy3898 because I believe we pay for the sins of ancestors I believe in slavery. That makes no sense.
We believe that man will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgressions…hmmm?! It can’t be both unless you start throwing in a lot of extra mental gymnastics
@@phillthebuilder9966 How do explain the curse of Cain. Or the multitude of curses brought up on the seed of sinners.
@@booshday I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies ...we either believe we are punished for our sins or cursed because of Cain. Hope that helps. Because it doesn't make any sense to me. If curses are brought upon the multitudes because they are offspring of sinners, then Hitler and German offspring should be "black" as Sudanese. As should the offspring of American slave traders and masters, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson! It doesn't make sense. I don't think God works this way. It's my personal opinion ...BUT, Cain allegedly killed ONE man, and the atomic bomb destroyed innocent by the thousands. EVERY race, culture, and people are guilty of atrocities that make Cain look like an angel. Including Mormons, ask the Ute, Shoshone, and Fremont tribes.
No different than what is practiced by all of these organized religions.
To everyone attacking the Church, I know it’s not perfect. But that does not mean it is truly God’s kingdom upon the earth. No matter our history, I am proud to be a member of my Savior’s church upon the earth, and I know that Satan and his armies will never be able to bring His church down.
I don’t see anyone attacking the church. Just pointing out the valid flaws and how it affected them which is valid. Everyone thinks their church is the true church and their beliefs are the right ones. It’s ok to be proud of that while also leaving room for truths that are less than favorable.
Telling the churches doctrine is not an attack .
Anybody who believes in God shouldn't have a problem with any race. God made races. So you're saying God made a mistake when they ain't black people and white people in Spanish and Chinese and Arab Philippine you're smarter than God. That's what the Norman say say that's what they think
Jesus is Lord Radio. Listen: “THE LORD SPEAKS AGAINST THE FALSE DOCTRINES & RACISM IN THE PRESENT DAY CHURCH" on Repent and Prepare the way.
Run away
WAIT A MINUTE ! 2Nephi5 They are talking about NATIVE-AMERICANS "dark skin" ! Not about blacks ! Why does ex-Mormons overlook LDS racism against Native-Americans ? When the whole religion is based on racism of Indigenous Americans ?
Latterday saints are not racist the church in africa is growing big and many people are comming back to church because they have found a lot on these anti mormon podcasts is not told correctly why would people waist their time listening to these anti mormon podcasts
Stop saying minorities, for real!
I forever thank HEAVENLY FATHER and beloved HOLY HEAVENLY MOTHER, for restoring, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST back on earth.
Best religion on earth.
For who buddy??
@Dean Martinson : I hope - so!!🤔
I went to morman church once never again a Jewish by blood pastor said something stupid n racist at a Bible study . Ya I'm good
Let’s just admit what is so obvious, rather than dance around avoiding what is staring us in the face. This religion and perhaps all of them are just human wishful thinking letting imagination running out of control. Deception defending deception just compounds into madness.
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS is, for time and for all eternity. The only TRUE CHURCH.
Lol. No
@@maneevent1508 Your comment perfectly reveal, your extreme lack of knowledge of, the truthfulness, and fullness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. I don't know, if you're a former Member of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, or a nonmember. And, my advise for you is, counsel with our ETERNAL PARENT'S, with a humble heart, and a contrite spirit, to manifest to you, the fullness and truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. Racism is, also in the Bible. Some left the CHURCH, due to rebelliousness and lack of knowledge, refused to repent from personal sins. Now, they're up with endless excuses, lies.
@@VAATAUSILI4139 your members wear magic undergarments, I can't take anything you say seriously. The LDS (I say LSD) is a satanic cult.
@@VAATAUSILI4139 All religions are controlled by Satan. There is no no true church. Wake up. It's not too late
What about then being men of their time??? We need change but can't judge old time people, like attesting modern rules to the Roman Games.
Slavery was held as morally reprehensible by a huge segment of the population for as long as slavery has been around. By the mid-19th century when the Church was born a significant portion of the population was against Slavery. It was a contentious issue during the constitutional conventions. So you can't say they were a product of their time because many folks during their time rejected it. Besides, they are the prophets seers and revelators chosen by God (they claim) to lead. Thank goodness they didn't and other secular forces led the morality of this country. They didn't.
The modern day conflict occurs when leaders of the church carry an old status quo mindset and one or more members of the church has an insight, awareness, or revelation that the church is doing something wrong or that something needs to be changed for the better.
Too often the choices are to: 1) stay silent and not make waves, or 2) speak up and share insights to others of the needed change and risk losing one's temple recommend or being kicked out of the church entirely. This is due to a belief that leaders have superior insights and communication channels with God than normal members whenever there are conflicting insights or revelations. Some will attempt to mask this by saying the church supports personal agency and accountability, but that really doesn't seem to apply to members vocally suggesting changes within the church itself.
Most of us know that the church evolves over time as it adjusts its policies, practices, and ordinances to better fit within the social norms of the world. Slowly and often belatedly, but there are ample examples showing that it does evolve in the face of changing social norms and social pressures.
This makes it all the more tragic when enlightened members are silenced or punished simply because their own personal insights, morals, ethics, education, or revelations precede some future church leader's revelation of the same.
Priesthood stupid not a real thing
Hate on the lds church all you want but you can’t say that are bad people
Yes I can. They are a racist institution full of extreme hypocrisies. Also in a funny aside Mormon banks worked hand in hand in financing organized crime in Las Vegas .
They are deceived by their own leadership. In 2 nephi God is called One God, Eternal made up of Father Son and Holy Ghost. In yhe King Follett Sermon he is recorded as saying
... We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea
it is just that damn simple!!!