@@johnperry1645 Like when the mormon prophets told the world that people with African decent were cursed with dark skin were they telling the truth? What about when the mormon prophets preached hate and racism as the will of god for generations and generations was this truth? What about segregating blacks from the temples until 1978? This is 14 years after the US had passed the civil rights act in 1964. Was this truth?
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
He also married four calling birds, three French hens, two turtle doves, and a partridge. He later tried to marry a pear tree, but two of his wives put a stop to that.
It’s almost as if he was a predatory cult leader who claimed to be a prophet because he wanted women, money, and power. But what would I know? I’m just an anti-Mormon so I must not have any credibility.
R B also helps to be a prophet as opposed to a preacher because you can change gods will on a whim as a prophet! It evolves with your wants and needs....just need some mummies and their funerary papyrus 😂😂😂
I remember going to numerous firesides in the 1970s which portrayed Joseph Smith as being a model of courageous and righteous behavior for young men and, the blessings of living the law of chastity and avoiding all impure thoughts. Unfortunately it seems that Joseph Smith was more of a poster child for the joys of hedonism and the art of being a charismatic conman.
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.
@@paulgregersen3570 what crap! There is no record or evidence of Christ marrying- as to polygamy in the Old Testament it never made happy families - and yes JS is a lecher and lustful liar
The problem with that view is it doesn't align with how his character was viewed by contemporaries of his time. We have large amounts of written documents and people who knew him all confirm his integrity. Those that attack and slandered him usually didn't know him, and usually didn't have an upstanding character themselves based again on lots of documentation that we have. A project called the Joseph Smith papers might interest you
These are way more interesting to the casual observer than Mormon Stories. And they pack a good punch. Undeniable information that destroys the false narrative that has existed for close to 200 years.
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
Fantastic! Well done! Great picture comparison with Joseph Smith and Helen Kimball at 14 years old. How can people not see that this was SO wrong; Not God-like at all. Thank you John, keep up the great work!!
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
Awesome info. Only valuable info missing I feel is to point out Joseph's age when he was marrying those teens which was in his mid-30s I believe. When I realized that.....😳😳😳.
Members still still say you can't judge the age difference according to "presentism". It's the leverage of telling them they're going to lose their souls if they didn't practice polygamy/andry that pushes it further. Not to mention, Joseph had men and women sign affidavits to keep these things secret. It's a common theme for Joseph being told by God not to disclose information and for others to keep secrets. When he told his family about the first vision, he then warned them to not tell anyone. When Joseph and Oliver Cowdery came forward that they had received the priesthood back in 1829 to lead the church in 1834, nobody knew because "they were told not to tell anyone". Now I remember in my institute class our teacher tried to address polygamy and shared the story about Joseph Smith "reluctantly" accepting that God had commanded it. He told other church leaders about the revelation and to "NOT tell their wives about it". My teacher then shared a "faith-promoting story" about how one of the men was disturbed by it, but remained silent when his wife asked what was the matter. His wife decided to pray about what was bothering him and received the revelation that it was because of polygamy (and knew it was a commandment of God). Our teacher then explained that they were told to be secretive and withhold the revelation from their wives so that they could know for themselves "through the spirit" that it was of God. It confirmed my biases in the church, but the whole lesson was awkward and uneasy. You could even tell our teacher was experiencing some cognitive dissonance, because there's so much more to the story. I just find it interesting that Joseph tells people to keep secrets for the greater good (i.e. giving individuals the opportunity to have the Spirit speak to their spirit and receive truth). Or you can see it as Joseph emotionally manipulating and conditioning individuals (including his family) to believe and support his endeavors.
@@JoeSmith-pk5tc yeah you will still see FAIR trying to explain that girls were married to men as young as age 12 back then. I've heard members also try to explain that women's husbands were being killed, and women couldn't own property back then, so they would practice polygamy so that they could own their land. Then of course they're always saying they didn't have sexual relations with all of them... but why take teens and other men's wives?
Jono Bennett it’s because most members don’t know the full history of polygamy. The church teaches hardly anything about it and what they do say is super white washed because they know it was just a lie by Joseph.
@@shawnbradford2243 who was the woman that told Joseph she didn't want to be sealed? Was that Heber C. Kimball's wife? John Dehlin always refers to that story where Joseph Smith told her husband she was being difficult and called her a whore basically. Where is that story again?
When you consider the time at which the church was moving away from teaching actual history and doubling down on indoctrination - 1950's - most of the brethren in the Q15 had very close ties to early church history. For example: Joseph Fielding Smith's father was Joseph F. Smith, a highly noted polygamist and Hyrum's son. Spencer W. Kimball was Heber C. Kimball's grandson. Which would make Helen Mar his aunt - or half-aunt. They weren't just trying to conceal unsavory church history from members. I believe they were also trying to conceal unsavory family history. And i don't believe for a second the church's 20th century adoption of contemporary businessman look and attire had to do with any revelation about beatniks and hippies. Being a clean shaven mormon male was to separate you from image of those long-bearded polygamists out in Utah. It was all rebranding, plain and simple.
Great insight indeed, especially the latter part about being clean-shaven, businessmen-looking as opposed to the appearance of past, polygamist, Mormon leaders.
I think this is why Spencer W. Kimball was super hard core against sexuality in general. He was traumatizing from the unsavory history and wanted to overcompensate by taking a hardline against any sexual expression outside the bounds of marriage. The Miracle of Forgivenesses has so many denunciations of normal human sexuality.
@@rubendhoyos9886You know that is a very interesting theory I have never considered. You do read a lot of mean spirited things on r/exmormon about how he was a closeted homosexual and all that over-the-top conjecture but, I think the hard to defend "sexual expression" of early church leaders (ancestors) was something on the minds of leaders (descendants) in the mid-20th century church.
I went to Spencer W. Kimball's funeral viewing at Temple Square when i was 6 years old. We waited in a line that stretched for blocks for at least 4 hours!
Amazing that he had any TIME to write or speak about ecclesiastical issues. Looks like he was too busy getting a little more nookie so the angel wouldn't be forced to bring out that sword again.
Imagine still being in the church. Remember, in the church, that's official history! They have to believe that he wasn't just pressuring her for sex. They have to tell people (with a straight face) that there truly was an angel there who would kill Joseph if his prey refused to marry him. Disgusting!
@@truth.speaker True story. But if you can keep the truth hidden and keep people afraid of it, you can keep the hoodwinking going on for a long, long time with the naive, the gullible, and the delusional.
I love the variety of formats that you have posted, at this time! Longer format of stories and research, written essays, hyperlinks and this RUclips fast stuff! Dang! You are changing the world for the better, in my humble opinion. Yes! More truth, more love, more conversations! Mor-mon? Hmmmm.... Maybe not.💖
John, I love these short stories, very informative and you have a cool sense of humor. Thank you for all the time you spend on producing and researching these wonderful videos.
The video has now been sufficiently edited to take care of the main issue with it, so I'm removing/editing my comment. The video is now more credible. It also has more info in the description now for those that want to study the issue of Sylvia Sessions and who her father was (Windsor Lyon) further. Thank you for listening to the critiques and making the changes John.
Huh! Do you really expect that from John Dehlin? This is nothing go watch the one on tithing the mine quoting is extremely reckless and intellectually dishonest.
@@geoffreydowdle5751 yep! The narrative has degenerated over the years to the extent now that the gloves have come off and he's punching below the belt now.
Disappointing. I wish the truth seeker feel was still there. Now it feels like the search is over and it's all about distributing "answers". This Thrive community seems to be the focus now.
Let me guess: these Mormons said that "Joseph didn't 'marry' these women, he was 'sealed' to them, creating 'Celestial Families' that are not like our families here on Earth. It was just these women trying to form families with Joseph, but in a platonic way." Did I get it right? Because they either said that or "all of Joseph's plural wives were widows and Joseph was just taking care of them and it totally wasn't about sex." Because those are the options I was given when I told my Mormon parents (and others in the Church) that I was deeply uncomfortable with the concept of Polygamy.
@@BrianMillsMFA Hi! This is a conversation I also stumbled upon with some members and I was wondering if you have an advice that respectful discounts their argument? Everytime I try to bring up the sexual history of Joseph Smith they say it's wrong. I just want to help my family fully understand what they are choosing to believe.
@@ashjones8103 When someone tries to come at you with one of those justifications (Polygamy didn't involve sex), point them to the essay the Church put out trying to justify the practice. It is located here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng And then show them some quotes from that essay: "Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration-for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition." Why would the practice be so "challenging" to Joseph if these relationships were purely platonic or acts of charity? Why would it "test faith" or be controversial? Answer: sex. The essay says: "The revelation, recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 132, states that Joseph prayed to know why God justified Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon in having many wives. The Lord responded that He had commanded them to enter into the practice." Obviously Joseph was asking about Polygamy because it is weird and God said it is totally cool. Why would it be weird? Sex. "Joseph told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully." Joseph TOTALLY didn't want to have sex with those teenagers, guys, an angel threatened his life if he didn't do it. Even though that negated his agency, which is literally what the War in Heaven was fought over. Why would Joseph be so reluctant to "marry" those teens if he wasn't going to have sex with them? Sex. Joseph's first Polygamist wife: "Fragmentary evidence suggests that Joseph Smith acted on the angel’s first command by marrying a plural wife, Fanny Alger, in Kirtland, Ohio, in the mid-1830s." Fanny was born in 1836, you can look it up. So she'd be a, let's see: teenager, in the "mid" 1830's (1831, actually, by the essay's earlier admission). The essay says: "Marriage performed by priesthood authority meant that the procreation of children and perpetuation of families would continue into the eternities. Joseph Smith’s revelation on marriage declared that the “continuation of the seeds forever and ever” helped to fulfill God’s purposes for His children. This promise was given to all couples who were married by priesthood authority and were faithful to their covenants." Um, that is talking about having sex and making babies, not taking care of helpless widows or forging (platonic) familial relationships. So: sex. "Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married." That is the single biggest smoking gun against these stupid rationalizations. If these women were already married, then they already had someone providing for them and already had someone they could be sealed to in order to obtain Exaltation. So why was Joseph "marrying" these women who were already married? Sexy sex. Do you know who else did that exact same thing (marrying women who already had husbands)? David Koresh.
@@BrianMillsMFA en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives Add to that every prophet that practiced polygamy had children with their wives including ones already married. And Joseph died not long after polygamy was officially openly practiced, just a matter of time if he had lived for children to be produced
Great Job! Would love to see a follow up video including the methods he used to persuade women/girls, the threats of angels with swords, the promise of exaltation for the family etc. Also, the character assassination of those who went public. And the fact that this is a common practice of cult leaders throughout the ages. Is it more likely that he was just another cult leader doing what cult leaders do or that he happened to be the one guy that God actually commanded to do that?
He simply guilt and shamed them, by your family salvation at stake, they didn't get their relatives to Kolob to live eternally together if they didn't marry them. Your salvation and your family will hedge on whether you will do my revelations, sick was a predator and paedophile, war monger who has been heralded as a fuckin hero, most Mormons don't bother to research and they are in deep before they know it, drowning to get out, peace to my fellow ex members
Great video, but the real question is, why is Brian and Laura hales still active and faithful members? You have to wonder. Also, it really irks me that none of this was ever even brushed in Sunday school or anywhere. That should speaks volumes.
Great video! I watched a pro-lds video state that Joseph’s polyandry was just temple sealings for women whose husbands were not members of the church and that their husbands consented and no sex was involved... very skeptical of this claim but wanted to add it to the convo!
The question isn't whether we can prove that Joseph DID have sex with his wives. The question is whether Church apologists can prove that Joseph DIDN'T have sex with the women he married. We are entitled to presume that ,when two people are married, they have sex until we are given sound evidence that their marriage is celebate.
@@kaijusushi8165 Well, the problem is that apologists won't recognize the relationships as actual marriages. They always speak about them in terms of "sealings" not marriages.
@@ThomasJDavis yes then when you point out what the church says about sealings being marriage for eternity they ghost and refuse to face the fact. Then you say I guess civil marriages are homered by god but temple sealings are not 😂😂😂
Just came across this and subscribed. I listen to Mormon Stories all the time at my desk. The multi-part interviews really help my ADD brain focus and are so fascinating.
This is an amazing piece. Crafted specifically with just a titch of comedic relief. I’m a monthly donor of Mormon Stories and I love what you do there, but I really think this will impact more people as the time commitment is so much less. John, just keep on doing what you’re doing, it’s great work!!!
If sex was not involved the first thing Joe would do is tell Emma " hey don't know why but God wants me to marry these girls but no sex will be taking place just wanted you to know" But Joe hid these marriages from Emma as long as he could.
L.D.S. church apologists have tried for years to excuse Joseph Smith's polygamy by claiming that "there is no proof that he had sex with his plural wives". This is a fallacious argument because the apologists are trying to shift the burden of proof, which rests on them, without acknowledging the fact that by its very nature marriage involves sexual intimacy. (i.e., when two people get married a presumption arises that their marriage involves sex). If apologists want to claim that Joseph's marriages were purely "dynastic" or non-sexual, then the burden is on them to prove that not a single one of his plural marriages was sexual in nature. Since nobody can prove that Joseph Smith did not have sex with any (or all) of the women he married, the presumption is conclusive, and we can logically conclude by a preponderance of the evidence that Joseph Smith did have sex with the women he married.
Plus the D&C 132 requires to bring spirit children to earth as part of polygamy its whole purpose is procreations (which requires sex) add to that every other polygamist (including prophets) has children in polygamy.
I wonder why this is such a controversy to most christian religions today but on the other hand they overlooked this practices in the early history of christianity in the old testament times.
I love that both sides of controversial topics can be addressed and are easy to find with today’s technology. Looking for and studying the flip side to this take was super valuable.
I read recently in historical article that Sarah Pratt wife of Apostle Orson Pratt said in an interview that John C Bennett had told her personally that he was helping Joseph by performing abortions on his pregnant plural wives. It was hard for me to take this seriously until I learned that Hyrum Smith in a sworn affidavit, that Bennett was alleged by the women he seduced to offer oral medicine for the purpose of abortion, in the event that his victims became pregnant. I believe this trail leads much closer to the truth of Sarah Pratt’s statement then most might think, especially when you consider that Joseph pled for mercy on Bennett during his initial trial before the high council. Did Bennett have a prearrangement with Joseph because he had to much dirt on him? Joseph likewise interfered with the high council in his brother William Smith’s trial for doing the same maneuvers as Bennett, that is seducing women under the guise of “spiritual wifery”. Of course we know now that Joseph Smith was doing this himself. If Joseph was in cahoots with Bennett in their co knowledge and methods of seduction, it then seems likely that he would have knowledge of and take advantage of Bennett’s ability to hide evidence of pregnancy, especially when one realizes how far Joseph was willing to go to prevent his being found out. It appears that most of his early plural wives were already married as a means of hiding his real behavior.
@@Mikha335 There is no evidence to back up your theory and if it were true why would Joseph excommunicate Benet? Wouldn't he need Benet's services for the number of wives he had at the time and the many he took after the fact? How did he keep all those women from bearing children once Benet was gone? Why would he alienate Benet by exposing him publicly and risk being exposed by Benet in retaliation? How much weight can we give to what Sarah said considering she had an affair with Benet and was excommunicated and exposed as well?
@@Mikha335 Sheriff of Hancock County Jacob B. Backentos, who was not a member of the church, provided the following affidavit in 1842 “Doctor J. C. Bennett, with having an illicit intercourse with Mrs. Orson Pratt, and some others, when said Bennett replied that she made a first rate go, and from personal observations I should have taken said Doctor Bennett and Mrs. Pratt as man and wife, had I not known to the contrary.” "Sarah Pratt had boarded with the Goddards while Orson Pratt was away on missionary work in England. The Goddards stated under oath that from the first night, Bennett "was there as sure as the night came," and that "he remained later, sometimes till after midnight." During this time Bennett and Pratt "sat close together, he leaning on her lap, whispering continually or talking very low." Zeruiah Goddard reported that on another occasion she "came suddenly into the room where Mrs. Pratt and the Dr. were; she was lying on the bed and the Dr. was taking his hands out of her bosom; he was in the habit of sitting on the bed where Mrs. Pratt was lying, and lying down over her." The Goddards said they visited Pratt in a home furnished to her by Dr. Robert Foster several times late in the evening and found Bennett and Sarah Pratt together, "as if they were man, and wife."
peaceliberty4all I think it can be safely assumed that the affidavits against Sarah Pratt (and others) were part of Joseph’s threat to “ruin your character” if she reported his propositions to her husband. It is a historical fact that Joseph used such methods to get what he wanted all the while he was making bold faced lies about others. He did the same to Nancy Rigdon and Martha Brotherton.
I kept denying to myself that this was true, it just couldn't be, I finally decided I wanted to know the truth, no matter what it meant, and it feels sick, but I'd still rather know then be kept in the dark with all the lies I was indoctrinated with. I officially declare, right here and now, I am no longer a member of the BS mormon church!
Joseph Smith was NOT a polygamist. In the early church, members often got sealed to a Priesthood leader. Wilford Woodruff changed that in a talk given on April 18 1894 in the Salt Lake City Tabernacle. In part of his talk in the Law of Adoption Sealings, Wilford Woodruff stated the following: "...the duty that I want every man who presides over a Temple to see performed from this day henceforth and forever, unless the Lord Almighty commands otherwise, is, let every man be adopted to his father. When a man receives the endowment, adopt him to his father; [149] not to Wilford Woodruff, nor to any other man outside the lineage of his fathers. That is the will of God to this people. I want all men who preside over these temples in these mountains of Israel to bear this in mind." So Joseph Smith and other leaders were sealed to other women and members as part of the Law of Adoption, which were sealings BUT NOT marriages! Joseph Smith was NOT a polygamist and thus John Dehlin spreads lies!
If marrying to "only be sealed" as apolgists state, why would JS marry sister mother/ daughter pairs? Sounds like someone had the hots for some neighbors and their sisters lol
Joseph Smith had one wife, Emma. The church website says it is a "fragmented history," meaning, there are no true or real records of any marriages beyond that. Because of NO RECORD he is NOT married to any beyond Emma. He also preached against polygamy several times, including in the Times and Seasons and General Conference talks and had a clause on marriage written included in the first two editions of Doctrine and Covenants stating polygamy was a "crime." Also D&C 42 states the law of the Lord where it says "22 Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else. 23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out. 24 Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out." One man one woman cleaving to each other and NONE else has ALWAYS been the Lord's law. It was so even during the whole time polygamy was practiced. And the Book of Mormon clearly teaches against this adulterous practice, beginning with Jacob, who told the people the Lord commanded them to be a righteous seed and not do what their Fathers did, as well as Abinidi with King Noah. The evidence is clear Joseph Smith was true to his word and teachings and did NOT practice polygamy. It is time to recognize the history was messy and Joseph was innocent.
Hi UM team, love this video! I'm sending you an email of a picture I did earlier this year and looking for help to fix it up better. Thanks for your work!
Hey viewer, most of your ancestors married at ages around fourteen, yes, fourteen years old. Fourteen. This was pretty normal throughout history and at the time of Joseph Smith. You'll note that critics of his era who took issue with plurality of wives never seemed to take issue with their ages. That comes later with presentism.
@@Mattwon97 actually it was quite commonplace in the 1830s. Do some research. Again, this is why none of the critics of his time take issue with the ages, which would have been an easy attack to make
To be clear “polyandry” means one woman with more than one husband. In the case of Joseph Smith, I believe he married a few women who were already married to another man, but I have never heard that any of his wives ever married another man AFTER marrying Joseph (at least not while Joseph was still alive.) So the “polyandry” was just Joseph taking other men’s wives.
Then you could say that Joseph Smith was in a polyandrous relationship if the definition points more at the action of the wive then the husband. Either way he married woman that were still married to other men. Whatever the proper term is for it.
Funny how when I brought all this to the attention of LDS missionaries a few decades ago, it was dismissed as anti- Mormon propaganda. When I talked to them about the differing and contradictory accounts, of the First Vision, it was dismissed as anti-Mormon propaganda. When I discussed the changes to and the [problems of the Book of Mormon, it was dismissed as anti -Mormon propaganda. I sometimes wonder what those people now think when they read what the Church now admits.
Yesterdays anti Mormon lies are today's gospel topics essays. I feel bad for Mormons that in 2021 are trapped into reconciling the Mormon churches narrative today with what that have previously taught . Sad.
@@georgezeller6046 : LDS people are still paranoid about anti-Mormon propaganda. They are very reluctant to even consider their own writings to discover the many changes.
The video is very good, however, I have seen where Joseph Smith only has "spiritual" marriages to the wives that were married to other men, in other words, they were sealed for eternity and not for time. I know of one exception to this, and that is the case of, I think, Sarah Hutchinson. When Joseph proposed to her, of course, she was offended so Joseph asked her to pray with her husband about that, and incredibly, they came to the conclusion that Joseph was right, that she was meant to be his wife, and then he married her. Later, she became the wife of Brigham Young for time only.
In his Astrology Chart, he has Venus in Aquarius, at his 8th house.. YES, he enjoyed lots of SEX, varied and with MANY WOMEN (lovers, affairs, other Mans wives!) And YES, he liked teenagers girls, as his Asteroid Eros in Virgo proves! One day, i hope, in the future, Im gonna write a full and complete Astrological Portrait of Joseph Smith 💪
I remember as a child at some point it being said that the linage of Joseph was still in the church and basically they were known to the brethren but hidden for their (the wives and children’s) protection. My mother who had been ill and home schooled in her early teens in the 50s also had a teacher sent by the district who she said claimed to be the youngest child of Joseph and his youngest wife. I don’t believe it to have been Helen Kimball. It must have been someone else. She related she remembered being a toddler and her father coming to her mother, and how they two would go off to be alone together whenever he came. My mom passed 10 years ago so I have no way to asked about all this, but I wish I had thought to while she was still alive and I could have done a deeper dive into it. But it makes me think if all true then there were wives known to the church that perhaps we don’t have record of.
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.
The cool thing id that you don't talk about religion at all, just exposing facts about the life of Joseph Smith and leaving people to make their own conclusions
Do we know how far into his marriage, did he take on other wives? I was raised in a cult, I left 16 years ago at the age of 21 and this guy Joseph Smith reminds me alot of the cult leader grew up with.
Question from an active LDS Church member. I have a genuine question for former Mormons. Sometimes I hear that part of the reason people leave the church is because Joseph Smith pressured underage girls into marrying him. I am not at all trying to defend what he did but I am very curious to those of you who became Christians what do you think about Old Testament prophets like Moses, Joshua and Samuel telling Israel that God told them to kill everyone, men, women and children in a given city? Or how do you feel about Abraham and Jacob having children with concubines who clearly had no choice in the matter? Again I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith. I genuinely want to better understand why for you one is okay and the other is not.
@tapir rider that’s fair. How do you feel about the Children of Israel destroying whole cities in the Old Testament? Why is that okay and Joseph Smith’s polygamy not okay? Honestly, I am not trying to defend it. I am genuinely curious.
The man literally went against Gods law in many ways. Marrying a mother and daughter and marrying other mens wives and said his revelations came from an angel of God. He is a liar. This is straight deception of the devil. How can you be a part of that mans church or read his book. Jesus said. You will know them by their fruits. His fruit is corrupt and you still go to his church he created.
@@sh-sr1xs like I said I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith’s polygamy. I am curious to know how you justify the genocide in the Bible. Can you help me understand why one is okay and the other is not?
@@robertrussell7468 What genocide? You mean God waiting for the cup of sinful nations to become full before completely killing everyone in it? Just like He will do in the end Himself to all who had a chance to repent but refused to. That's justifiable. It's not justifiable to follow a man who lied about the things of God who is doing the work of the devil that will also lead many to hell. Mormons need to repent of many false teachings that they feel no need to repent of and that is what will send them to hell. Corrupting the image and ways of God is big sin.
OMG..MOst of this happened an Hour North of me Here in Ohio, In Kirtland and Hiram..Makes Me Wanna Move Out Of Ohio..ASAP! Keep up the Great Work, John!
What many ignorant people on this site do not realize is that neither Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young wanted to practice polygamy, even after it was commanded! Joseph had to be threatened by an angel several times before he finally complied, and when Brigham you saw a wagon carrying a dead person in a casket, he said he envied him because of his dislike for that commandment!!!
@@shawnbradford2243 , D&C declares that Joseph should tap celestial OPP lest the Lord smite the entire earth with a sore and grievous to be born among all nations an awful cursing of damnation bottled up unto much weeping and wailing .
@@michaeltaylors2456 you mean no angels with flaming swords have visited you telling you if you don’t marry a child he will kill you 😂😂😂 I thought that was commonplace
Does everyone realize Mary was visited by a angel, letting her know she would be receiving thru Holy Spirit the seed of Jesus , she would be blessed all women , she could of said no , she knew in her time it wasn’t look upon favorably! Holy Spirit in a dream informed Joseph ! A women not a man was used ! Jesus used women as much as men , and loving kind to them , and they loved him and felt respected by Jesus ! By the way , it’s my wife typing this !
2:21 Leviticus 18:17 “’Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
The Bible says in Deuteronomy 17:17 : "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. " God said, do not have more than one wife. Unfortunately the patriarchs didnt listen to God & faced consequences, like David & Solomon. Proph. Mohd was better than Smith in controlling their lustful desires. !!
Joseph Smith was *sealed* to other men's wives. Today the sealing ceremony is synonymous with marriage but that was not always so, in the early days it was seen as creating a link especially linking a family to the prophet via the women of the family. Often it was considered they would be his wife in the next life but not in this. Very strange and very different to how things are done now. I won't claim to agree or disagree but I will say it's misleading to call all of those marriages when the people themselves at the time considered a sealing to be something different.
Does it matter if they were ALL consummated marriages? The semantics of whether they were what we today would call marriages seems like deflecting. Surely you can see by the evidence that at least some of them were sexual.
@@Mattwon97 you're missing the point. He can be sealed to women who were married already and not consider it a marriage during their lifetime to be consummated. Yes there were others that were considered wives by title, and surely we're consummated.
@@BehavingBradly But isn't the only point that really matters is that he practiced polygamy and polyandry? It appears that you are only contesting the numbers of wives he took by claiming that some were just "sealings" and not actual marriages. I think one of the major historical problems with this explanation is the means by which his polygamy was revealed. A reporter discovered what he was doing and put it to print. Joseph had been denying that he was involved with polygamous or polyandrous relationships up to this point. There was no "sealing" defense made, that I am aware of. When the paper printed its first copy and Joseph found out about it, he took his men and they went down and destroyed the press to prevent it from getting out. Does this sound like a man just practicing a "sealing" ordinance? It was at this point the government of the United States started coming down on him because at that time he was the mayor or something of the city and he violated the constitution when he destroyed the press. The other detail that should concern you is that he married/"sealed" himself to many of the woman without Emma's knowledge. When the paper revealed the truth he received a revelation that first wives have a right of veto. So as far as I have seen, the local non-Mormons recognized what they were seeing was marriage and Joseph didn't try to defend it by saying, "this isn't a marriage ceremony, its a sealing ceremony and it has this meaning..." He tried to hide the fact of what he was doing and tried to destroy the means to spread the truth about it. That, to me, is enough. The justification of "sealing" came as an apologetic against the critiques given but it wasn't the original motive and as you have admitted Joseph did marry and have sex with many of them. All it takes is 1 to demonstrate he was a polygamist.
@@Mattwon97 Yes, definitely. I never denied that he was married to multiple wives and that they were wives in every sense. What I'm pointing out is that the sealing to women already married was not a marriage. Today the LDS have ceremonies to seal together spouses, but there is also a concept of sealing to parents. This joining or binding together is not always in the context of marriage. That was my point.
What gets me wondering is what motivated these women to engage with Joseph Smith is any plural marriage or sexual union. Before the sexual act what was the wedding ceremony like and who officiated at the weddings or was this wedding even actually occurred? In other words, how did this man get all of this female flesh in his arms and his male organ into the woman's reproductive area so easily? I look back at my life and I have had trips to the brothels in Hawaii during my army tour, trips down to the poor section of Lexington, KY during my university days, called the escort service after I got married and several Asian sex tours to Pattaya. Every time I have shelled out cash to get what I wanted to get from the females, never claimed that I was a prophet and did NOT get anyone pregnant. So, I wonder how Joseph Smith worked his magic with these females and even got some of his seeds pasted on to the future generations? I have had encounters with followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I have read much about them and how they got started. In current times I wonder how so many followers have had their lives consumed by the Mormons and what motivates this behavior. Then I remember my past and how the desire to engage in sex has in some ways consumed myself as anyone can go Google my name in the Internet under "Randall Kehrt" and see my past. In summary the flesh is weak and it takes a character with a strong mind to resist what the animal nature in us desires. So I lacked character to resist the females in the past but NOW at age 66 I am beginning to have some resistance as enough money has been spent. In summary, the human mind and body has desires that must be met or we go crazy. I now go back to my Internet viewing...........
You should do a series on each of the books within the book of mormon .... give us a quick history of the major plots and twists of the book so that those who haven't read it or can't remember it can quickly explain it
Lol sex is a pretty basic part of marriage what's the big deal? If any of you Christians think you're going to show up to heaven and see the ancient prophets with only one wife you've got another thing coming.
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later the baby Jesus was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.
![EST Gee - NEVER NEED (Feat. Selfpaid Savage) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f2cRtr52HXI/mqdefault.jpg)
The truth about Mormonism is out, you just have to have the desire to look, when you look, you can never go back. Truth Wins eh?
Truth > Faith
Truth > Freedom
@@johnperry1645 Like when the mormon prophets told the world that people with African decent were cursed with dark skin were they telling the truth?
What about when the mormon prophets preached hate and racism as the will of god for generations and generations was this truth?
What about segregating blacks from the temples until 1978? This is 14 years after the US had passed the civil rights act in 1964. Was this truth?
I sure hope so. Unfortunately, the Church claims that the "feelings of the Spirit" (which no one can describe) are indicative of "truth".
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
He also married four calling birds, three French hens, two turtle doves, and a partridge. He later tried to marry a pear tree, but two of his wives put a stop to that.
He actually married two Partridges, they were sisters
@@funkyfreshtx and his adopted daughters...
@@JoeSmith-pk5tc puke emoji puke emoji 🤮🤮
That doesn't surprise me Nukem. At that point he'd pretty-much marry anything with a pulse!
And a pukeko in a punga tree 🤪
It’s almost as if he was a predatory cult leader who claimed to be a prophet because he wanted women, money, and power. But what would I know? I’m just an anti-Mormon so I must not have any credibility.
Why is it that when god calls a prophet, he commands him to have sex with all the women?
@@RB-zh1eq It's good to be the prophet!
R B
Yes I’ve noticed that too. It must be a trend
R B also helps to be a prophet as opposed to a preacher because you can change gods will on a whim as a prophet! It evolves with your wants and needs....just need some mummies and their funerary papyrus 😂😂😂
You're NOT anti-Mormon. Just pro-Truth.
I remember going to numerous firesides in the 1970s which portrayed Joseph Smith as being a model of courageous and righteous behavior for young men and, the blessings of living the law of chastity and avoiding all impure thoughts. Unfortunately it seems that Joseph Smith was more of a poster child for the joys of hedonism and the art of being a charismatic conman.
Fireside chats kinda rhymes with liar side chats.
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30"
John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12.
She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today.
Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts.
He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.
@@paulgregersen3570 what crap! There is no record or evidence of Christ marrying- as to polygamy in the Old Testament it never made happy families - and yes JS is a lecher and lustful liar
The problem with that view is it doesn't align with how his character was viewed by contemporaries of his time. We have large amounts of written documents and people who knew him all confirm his integrity. Those that attack and slandered him usually didn't know him, and usually didn't have an upstanding character themselves based again on lots of documentation that we have. A project called the Joseph Smith papers might interest you
These are way more interesting to the casual observer than Mormon Stories. And they pack a good punch. Undeniable information that destroys the false narrative that has existed for close to 200 years.
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
Mormonism is a cult
John these shorts are bringing out your comedian side perfectly!!!!
Fantastic! Well done! Great picture comparison with Joseph Smith and Helen Kimball at 14 years old. How can people not see that this was SO wrong; Not God-like at all. Thank you John, keep up the great work!!
I read your post about looking for church answers? I am Christian but I'm just about to join your church if this video I linked below is really true? If the Bible really says Joseph Smith was to bring us a second bible as this video shows the Bible saying it? Or am I being tricked? ruclips.net/video/cGGPPonTjko/видео.html
The only wrong thing I see is polygamy, not her age.
Awesome info. Only valuable info missing I feel is to point out Joseph's age when he was marrying those teens which was in his mid-30s I believe. When I realized that.....😳😳😳.
Members still still say you can't judge the age difference according to "presentism". It's the leverage of telling them they're going to lose their souls if they didn't practice polygamy/andry that pushes it further. Not to mention, Joseph had men and women sign affidavits to keep these things secret.
It's a common theme for Joseph being told by God not to disclose information and for others to keep secrets. When he told his family about the first vision, he then warned them to not tell anyone. When Joseph and Oliver Cowdery came forward that they had received the priesthood back in 1829 to lead the church in 1834, nobody knew because "they were told not to tell anyone".
Now I remember in my institute class our teacher tried to address polygamy and shared the story about Joseph Smith "reluctantly" accepting that God had commanded it. He told other church leaders about the revelation and to "NOT tell their wives about it". My teacher then shared a "faith-promoting story" about how one of the men was disturbed by it, but remained silent when his wife asked what was the matter. His wife decided to pray about what was bothering him and received the revelation that it was because of polygamy (and knew it was a commandment of God). Our teacher then explained that they were told to be secretive and withhold the revelation from their wives so that they could know for themselves "through the spirit" that it was of God. It confirmed my biases in the church, but the whole lesson was awkward and uneasy. You could even tell our teacher was experiencing some cognitive dissonance, because there's so much more to the story.
I just find it interesting that Joseph tells people to keep secrets for the greater good (i.e. giving individuals the opportunity to have the Spirit speak to their spirit and receive truth). Or you can see it as Joseph emotionally manipulating and conditioning individuals (including his family) to believe and support his endeavors.
@@bonojennett There is no justification for a grown married man to have relationships with children. None.
@@JoeSmith-pk5tc yeah you will still see FAIR trying to explain that girls were married to men as young as age 12 back then. I've heard members also try to explain that women's husbands were being killed, and women couldn't own property back then, so they would practice polygamy so that they could own their land. Then of course they're always saying they didn't have sexual relations with all of them... but why take teens and other men's wives?
Jono Bennett it’s because most members don’t know the full history of polygamy. The church teaches hardly anything about it and what they do say is super white washed because they know it was just a lie by Joseph.
@@shawnbradford2243 who was the woman that told Joseph she didn't want to be sealed? Was that Heber C. Kimball's wife? John Dehlin always refers to that story where Joseph Smith told her husband she was being difficult and called her a whore basically. Where is that story again?
The “mob” that killed him at Carthage, were the husbands and fathers of the wives he had taken. Wonder why we only ever hear bout Emma.
💯
The mob who killed Joseph was not the husbands
I know these episodes take time but they are a masterclass. Well done John.
Thanks, Jordan!
When you consider the time at which the church was moving away from teaching actual history and doubling down on indoctrination - 1950's - most of the brethren in the Q15 had very close ties to early church history. For example: Joseph Fielding Smith's father was Joseph F. Smith, a highly noted polygamist and Hyrum's son. Spencer W. Kimball was Heber C. Kimball's grandson. Which would make Helen Mar his aunt - or half-aunt. They weren't just trying to conceal unsavory church history from members. I believe they were also trying to conceal unsavory family history. And i don't believe for a second the church's 20th century adoption of contemporary businessman look and attire had to do with any revelation about beatniks and hippies. Being a clean shaven mormon male was to separate you from image of those long-bearded polygamists out in Utah. It was all rebranding, plain and simple.
Great insight! Thank you!!!
Great insight indeed, especially the latter part about being clean-shaven, businessmen-looking as opposed to the appearance of past, polygamist, Mormon leaders.
I think this is why Spencer W. Kimball was super hard core against sexuality in general. He was traumatizing from the unsavory history and wanted to overcompensate by taking a hardline against any sexual expression outside the bounds of marriage. The Miracle of Forgivenesses has so many denunciations of normal human sexuality.
@@rubendhoyos9886You know that is a very interesting theory I have never considered. You do read a lot of mean spirited things on r/exmormon about how he was a closeted homosexual and all that over-the-top conjecture but, I think the hard to defend "sexual expression" of early church leaders (ancestors) was something on the minds of leaders (descendants) in the mid-20th century church.
I went to Spencer W. Kimball's funeral viewing at Temple Square when i was 6 years old. We waited in a line that stretched for blocks for at least 4 hours!
Amazing that he had any TIME to write or speak about ecclesiastical issues. Looks like he was too busy getting a little more nookie so the angel wouldn't be forced to bring out that sword again.
Imagine still being in the church. Remember, in the church, that's official history! They have to believe that he wasn't just pressuring her for sex. They have to tell people (with a straight face) that there truly was an angel there who would kill Joseph if his prey refused to marry him. Disgusting!
@@truth.speaker I think their key to success is moving west where Brigham worked extra hard to rewrite all the history and delete all the bad stuff.
@@joetaylor8687 and they would have gotten away with it! If it weren't for that pesky internet!
Hiding the truth has failed miserably for the church.
@@truth.speaker True story. But if you can keep the truth hidden and keep people afraid of it, you can keep the hoodwinking going on for a long, long time with the naive, the gullible, and the delusional.
I love the variety of formats that you have posted, at this time! Longer format of stories and research, written essays, hyperlinks and this RUclips fast stuff!
Dang! You are changing the world for the better, in my humble opinion.
Yes! More truth, more love, more conversations!
Mor-mon? Hmmmm....
Maybe not.💖
John, I love these short stories, very informative and you have a cool sense of humor. Thank you for all the time you spend on producing and researching these wonderful videos.
Praise to the man who communed with so many women!
Just one of the perks of being Prophet and Seer!
@@mylesmarkson1686just like muhamad.
@@mylesmarkson1686just like muhamad.
Literally LOLed!!!😂😂😂
The video has now been sufficiently edited to take care of the main issue with it, so I'm removing/editing my comment. The video is now more credible. It also has more info in the description now for those that want to study the issue of Sylvia Sessions and who her father was (Windsor Lyon) further. Thank you for listening to the critiques and making the changes John.
I agree. This new channel surprises me in that way.
Huh! Do you really expect that from John Dehlin? This is nothing go watch the one on tithing the mine quoting is extremely reckless and intellectually dishonest.
@@trevorwhite4458 Whoa, really? I just always thought that the Mormon Stories channel at least tried to be fair up until more recently.
@@geoffreydowdle5751 yep! The narrative has degenerated over the years to the extent now that the gloves have come off and he's punching below the belt now.
Disappointing. I wish the truth seeker feel was still there. Now it feels like the search is over and it's all about distributing "answers". This Thrive community seems to be the focus now.
This is scary that just a couple hours ago I was questioning all of this to some Mormons in a zoom chat!
Let me guess: these Mormons said that "Joseph didn't 'marry' these women, he was 'sealed' to them, creating 'Celestial Families' that are not like our families here on Earth. It was just these women trying to form families with Joseph, but in a platonic way." Did I get it right? Because they either said that or "all of Joseph's plural wives were widows and Joseph was just taking care of them and it totally wasn't about sex." Because those are the options I was given when I told my Mormon parents (and others in the Church) that I was deeply uncomfortable with the concept of Polygamy.
@@BrianMillsMFA Hi! This is a conversation I also stumbled upon with some members and I was wondering if you have an advice that respectful discounts their argument? Everytime I try to bring up the sexual history of Joseph Smith they say it's wrong. I just want to help my family fully understand what they are choosing to believe.
@@ashjones8103 When someone tries to come at you with one of those justifications (Polygamy didn't involve sex), point them to the essay the Church put out trying to justify the practice. It is located here:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
And then show them some quotes from that essay:
"Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration-for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition."
Why would the practice be so "challenging" to Joseph if these relationships were purely platonic or acts of charity? Why would it "test faith" or be controversial? Answer: sex.
The essay says: "The revelation, recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 132, states that Joseph prayed to know why God justified Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon in having many wives. The Lord responded that He had commanded them to enter into the practice."
Obviously Joseph was asking about Polygamy because it is weird and God said it is totally cool. Why would it be weird? Sex.
"Joseph told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully."
Joseph TOTALLY didn't want to have sex with those teenagers, guys, an angel threatened his life if he didn't do it. Even though that negated his agency, which is literally what the War in Heaven was fought over. Why would Joseph be so reluctant to "marry" those teens if he wasn't going to have sex with them? Sex.
Joseph's first Polygamist wife: "Fragmentary evidence suggests that Joseph Smith acted on the angel’s first command by marrying a plural wife, Fanny Alger, in Kirtland, Ohio, in the mid-1830s." Fanny was born in 1836, you can look it up. So she'd be a, let's see: teenager, in the "mid" 1830's (1831, actually, by the essay's earlier admission).
The essay says: "Marriage performed by priesthood authority meant that the procreation of children and perpetuation of families would continue into the eternities. Joseph Smith’s revelation on marriage declared that the “continuation of the seeds forever and ever” helped to fulfill God’s purposes for His children. This promise was given to all couples who were married by priesthood authority and were faithful to their covenants."
Um, that is talking about having sex and making babies, not taking care of helpless widows or forging (platonic) familial relationships. So: sex.
"Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married."
That is the single biggest smoking gun against these stupid rationalizations. If these women were already married, then they already had someone providing for them and already had someone they could be sealed to in order to obtain Exaltation. So why was Joseph "marrying" these women who were already married? Sexy sex. Do you know who else did that exact same thing (marrying women who already had husbands)? David Koresh.
@@BrianMillsMFA Haha that was amazing! I’m definitely going to use this, thank you so much!
@@BrianMillsMFA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
Add to that every prophet that practiced polygamy had children with their wives including ones already married. And Joseph died not long after polygamy was officially openly practiced, just a matter of time if he had lived for children to be produced
Great Job! Would love to see a follow up video including the methods he used to persuade women/girls, the threats of angels with swords, the promise of exaltation for the family etc. Also, the character assassination of those who went public. And the fact that this is a common practice of cult leaders throughout the ages. Is it more likely that he was just another cult leader doing what cult leaders do or that he happened to be the one guy that God actually commanded to do that?
He simply guilt and shamed them, by your family salvation at stake, they didn't get their relatives to Kolob to live eternally together if they didn't marry them.
Your salvation and your family will hedge on whether you will do my revelations, sick was a predator and paedophile, war monger who has been heralded as a fuckin hero, most Mormons don't bother to research and they are in deep before they know it, drowning to get out, peace to my fellow ex members
Great video, but the real question is, why is Brian and Laura hales still active and faithful members? You have to wonder. Also, it really irks me that none of this was ever even brushed in Sunday school or anywhere. That should speaks volumes.
Great video! I watched a pro-lds video state that Joseph’s polyandry was just temple sealings for women whose husbands were not members of the church and that their husbands consented and no sex was involved... very skeptical of this claim but wanted to add it to the convo!
If no sex was involved, why did Sylvia Sessions Lyon believe that her daughter was the offspring of Joseph?
The question isn't whether we can prove that Joseph DID have sex with his wives. The question is whether Church apologists can prove that Joseph DIDN'T have sex with the women he married. We are entitled to presume that ,when two people are married, they have sex until we are given sound evidence that their marriage is celebate.
@@kaijusushi8165 Well, the problem is that apologists won't recognize the relationships as actual marriages. They always speak about them in terms of "sealings" not marriages.
@@ThomasJDavis Sounds a lot like Warren Jeffs...
@@ThomasJDavis yes then when you point out what the church says about sealings being marriage for eternity they ghost and refuse to face the fact. Then you say I guess civil marriages are homered by god but temple sealings are not 😂😂😂
Just came across this and subscribed. I listen to Mormon Stories all the time at my desk. The multi-part interviews really help my ADD brain focus and are so fascinating.
An argument a lot of mormons use is that Joseph wouldn't go to the lengths he did just to preserve a lie. But obviously this lie came with a few perks
Again, so good to see the ‘real you’ John. I love Mormon stories but find this channel so SO so good... love the editing too... who does that ?
I do. This is John.
This is an amazing piece. Crafted specifically with just a titch of comedic relief. I’m a monthly donor of Mormon Stories and I love what you do there, but I really think this will impact more people as the time commitment is so much less. John, just keep on doing what you’re doing, it’s great work!!!
If sex was not involved the first thing Joe would do is tell Emma " hey don't know why but God wants me to marry these girls but no sex will be taking place just wanted you to know"
But Joe hid these marriages from Emma as long as he could.
Joseph Smith have one legal wife emma, the rest where relationship like concubines.
The rest were illegal wives. Polygamy was illegal at all times Mormons practiced it. It was also illegal in Mexico and Canada.
He still.did abominations as stated in Leviticus 18.
L.D.S. church apologists have tried for years to excuse Joseph Smith's polygamy by claiming that "there is no proof that he had sex with his plural wives". This is a fallacious argument because the apologists are trying to shift the burden of proof, which rests on them, without acknowledging the fact that by its very nature marriage involves sexual intimacy. (i.e., when two people get married a presumption arises that their marriage involves sex). If apologists want to claim that Joseph's marriages were purely "dynastic" or non-sexual, then the burden is on them to prove that not a single one of his plural marriages was sexual in nature. Since nobody can prove that Joseph Smith did not have sex with any (or all) of the women he married, the presumption is conclusive, and we can logically conclude by a preponderance of the evidence that Joseph Smith did have sex with the women he married.
Plus the D&C 132 requires to bring spirit children to earth as part of polygamy its whole purpose is procreations (which requires sex) add to that every other polygamist (including prophets) has children in polygamy.
Can't wait for the book of mormon episode. The parallels, anachronisms, geography, dna, etc
Great video John. Thank you very much for information I was already familiar with , it needs to be told.
I wonder why this is such a controversy to most christian religions today but on the other hand they overlooked this practices in the early history of christianity in the old testament times.
I ask for editing and I have received. Great stuff, very digestible, memorable, trustworthy and thought provoking.
Love the sass and the great information (but mostly the sass)!
I like how he puts a hint of humor in these facts. Makes it fun to watch. 👍
I love that both sides of controversial topics can be addressed and are easy to find with today’s technology. Looking for and studying the flip side to this take was super valuable.
Love these John! Great work!
Thank you for this, now excuse me while I vomit 🤢 🤮. Also again not taught this in the discussions back in ye old 90’s.
Love the short format!
Thanks, Jeremiah!
I love this new channel, John. Thanks!
Is there any reliable evidence that Joseph covered up some of his polygamy through the services of Dr Bennett in Nauvoo?
I read recently in historical article that Sarah Pratt wife of Apostle Orson Pratt said in an interview that John C Bennett had told her personally that he was helping Joseph by performing abortions on his pregnant plural wives. It was hard for me to take this seriously until I learned that Hyrum Smith in a sworn affidavit, that Bennett was alleged by the women he seduced to offer oral medicine for the purpose of abortion, in the event that his victims became pregnant. I believe this trail leads much closer to the truth of Sarah Pratt’s statement then most might think, especially when you consider that Joseph pled for mercy on Bennett during his initial trial before the high council. Did Bennett have a prearrangement with Joseph because he had to much dirt on him? Joseph likewise interfered with the high council in his brother William Smith’s trial for doing the same maneuvers as Bennett, that is seducing women under the guise of “spiritual wifery”. Of course we know now that Joseph Smith was doing this himself.
If Joseph was in cahoots with Bennett in their co knowledge and methods of seduction, it then seems likely that he would have knowledge of and take advantage of Bennett’s ability to hide evidence of pregnancy, especially when one realizes how far Joseph was willing to go to prevent his being found out. It appears that most of his early plural wives were already married as a means of hiding his real behavior.
@@Mikha335 There is no evidence to back up your theory and if it were true why would Joseph excommunicate Benet? Wouldn't he need Benet's services for the number of wives he had at the time and the many he took after the fact? How did he keep all those women from bearing children once Benet was gone? Why would he alienate Benet by exposing him publicly and risk being exposed by Benet in retaliation? How much weight can we give to what Sarah said considering she had an affair with Benet and was excommunicated and exposed as well?
peaceliberty4all
Sarah never had an affair with Bennett. That was the lie put out by JS as the consequence for her telling her husband.
@@Mikha335 Sheriff of Hancock County Jacob B. Backentos, who was not a member of the church, provided the following affidavit in 1842 “Doctor J. C. Bennett, with having an illicit intercourse with Mrs. Orson Pratt, and some others, when said Bennett replied that she made a first rate go, and from personal observations I should have taken said Doctor Bennett and Mrs. Pratt as man and wife, had I not known to the contrary.”
"Sarah Pratt had boarded with the Goddards while Orson Pratt was away on missionary work in England.
The Goddards stated under oath that from the first night, Bennett "was there as sure as the night came," and that "he remained later, sometimes till after midnight." During this time Bennett and Pratt "sat close together, he leaning on her lap, whispering continually or talking very low." Zeruiah Goddard reported that on another occasion she "came suddenly into the room where Mrs. Pratt and the Dr. were; she was lying on the bed and the Dr. was taking his hands out of her bosom; he was in the habit of sitting on the bed where Mrs. Pratt was lying, and lying down over her." The Goddards said they visited Pratt in a home furnished to her by Dr. Robert Foster several times late in the evening and found Bennett and Sarah Pratt together, "as if they were man, and wife."
peaceliberty4all
I think it can be safely assumed that the affidavits against Sarah Pratt (and others) were part of Joseph’s threat to “ruin your character” if she reported his propositions to her husband. It is a historical fact that Joseph used such methods to get what he wanted all the while he was making bold faced lies about others. He did the same to Nancy Rigdon and Martha Brotherton.
I’m really enjoying these! Good job!
I kept denying to myself that this was true, it just couldn't be, I finally decided I wanted to know the truth, no matter what it meant, and it feels sick, but I'd still rather know then be kept in the dark with all the lies I was indoctrinated with. I officially declare, right here and now, I am no longer a member of the BS mormon church!
Joseph Smith was NOT a polygamist. In the early church, members often got sealed to a Priesthood leader. Wilford Woodruff changed that in a talk given on April 18 1894 in the Salt Lake City Tabernacle. In part of his talk in the Law of Adoption Sealings, Wilford Woodruff stated the following:
"...the duty that I want every man who presides over a Temple to see performed from this day henceforth and forever, unless the Lord Almighty commands otherwise, is, let every man be adopted to his father. When a man receives the endowment, adopt him to his father; [149] not to Wilford Woodruff, nor to any other man outside the lineage of his fathers. That is the will of God to this people. I want all men who preside over these temples in these mountains of Israel to bear this in mind."
So Joseph Smith and other leaders were sealed to other women and members as part of the Law of Adoption, which were sealings BUT NOT marriages! Joseph Smith was NOT a polygamist and thus John Dehlin spreads lies!
This channel is amazing, keep up the good work
Thank you for the excellent video
Good info, thank you! Now I've got a good reference video.
If marrying to "only be sealed" as apolgists state, why would JS marry sister mother/ daughter pairs? Sounds like someone had the hots for some neighbors and their sisters lol
Wow! Thank you so much!!! You are AWESOME! Thank you for the concise very factual information.
I thought I nailed a lot of women but guy was a player of the past. Someone should have told him, you don't have to marry them, to have sex..😁
Your slightly humorous take on JS wives makes it EZ to remember. Well done!
Multiple wives is the fist flag you are starting a cult.
But then Mormons (and Muslims) STILLLLLLLL find a way to justify it and stick with him as the PROPHET of God...... 🤦♂️🤦♂️
9 sisters and a mother daughter pair. I have to say......that sounds.....AWESOME.
Joseph Smith had one wife, Emma.
The church website says it is a "fragmented history," meaning, there are no true or real records of any marriages beyond that. Because of NO RECORD he is NOT married to any beyond Emma. He also preached against polygamy several times, including in the Times and Seasons and General Conference talks and had a clause on marriage written included in the first two editions of Doctrine and Covenants stating polygamy was a "crime." Also D&C 42 states the law of the Lord where it says "22 Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else. 23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out. 24 Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out."
One man one woman cleaving to each other and NONE else has ALWAYS been the Lord's law. It was so even during the whole time polygamy was practiced. And the Book of Mormon clearly teaches against this adulterous practice, beginning with Jacob, who told the people the Lord commanded them to be a righteous seed and not do what their Fathers did, as well as Abinidi with King Noah. The evidence is clear Joseph Smith was true to his word and teachings and did NOT practice polygamy.
It is time to recognize the history was messy and Joseph was innocent.
Someone told me D&C where talks about polygamy was added by Brigham after Smith's death. Is that right?
Didn't know about that website that gathers the evidence for the sexual aspect of his polygamy. Love this summary!
Hi UM team, love this video!
I'm sending you an email of a picture I did earlier this year and looking for help to fix it up better.
Thanks for your work!
Hey viewer, most of your ancestors married at ages around fourteen, yes, fourteen years old. Fourteen. This was pretty normal throughout history and at the time of Joseph Smith. You'll note that critics of his era who took issue with plurality of wives never seemed to take issue with their ages. That comes later with presentism.
Yes. Except that marrying a teenager when you are in you mid 30's was not at all commonplace, let alone acceptable, in the 1830s or now.
@@Mattwon97 actually it was quite commonplace in the 1830s. Do some research. Again, this is why none of the critics of his time take issue with the ages, which would have been an easy attack to make
Fantastic episode, John!!!!!
Thank you!!!
To be clear “polyandry” means one woman with more than one husband. In the case of Joseph Smith, I believe he married a few women who were already married to another man, but I have never heard that any of his wives ever married another man AFTER marrying Joseph (at least not while Joseph was still alive.) So the “polyandry” was just Joseph taking other men’s wives.
Then you could say that Joseph Smith was in a polyandrous relationship if the definition points more at the action of the wive then the husband. Either way he married woman that were still married to other men. Whatever the proper term is for it.
Well done John!
2:41 😬 "Polyandry." 😬
Haha.
Funny how when I brought all this to the attention of LDS missionaries a few decades ago, it was dismissed as anti- Mormon propaganda. When I talked to them about the differing and contradictory accounts, of the First Vision, it was dismissed as anti-Mormon propaganda. When I discussed the changes to and the [problems of the Book of Mormon, it was dismissed as anti -Mormon propaganda. I sometimes wonder what those people now think when they read what the Church now admits.
Yesterdays anti Mormon lies are today's gospel topics essays. I feel bad for Mormons that in 2021 are trapped into reconciling the Mormon churches narrative today with what that have previously taught . Sad.
@@georgezeller6046 : LDS people are still paranoid about anti-Mormon propaganda. They are very reluctant to even consider their own writings to discover the many changes.
The video is very good, however, I have seen where Joseph Smith only has "spiritual" marriages to the wives that were married to other men, in other words, they were sealed for eternity and not for time. I know of one exception to this, and that is the case of, I think, Sarah Hutchinson. When Joseph proposed to her, of course, she was offended so Joseph asked her to pray with her husband about that, and incredibly, they came to the conclusion that Joseph was right, that she was meant to be his wife, and then he married her. Later, she became the wife of Brigham Young for time only.
This was great! Thank you!
In his Astrology Chart, he has Venus in Aquarius, at his 8th house.. YES, he enjoyed lots of SEX, varied and with MANY WOMEN (lovers, affairs, other Mans wives!) And YES, he liked teenagers girls, as his Asteroid Eros in Virgo proves! One day, i hope, in the future, Im gonna write a full and complete Astrological Portrait of Joseph Smith 💪
The answer is yes
I remember as a child at some point it being said that the linage of Joseph was still in the church and basically they were known to the brethren but hidden for their (the wives and children’s) protection. My mother who had been ill and home schooled in her early teens in the 50s also had a teacher sent by the district who she said claimed to be the youngest child of Joseph and his youngest wife. I don’t believe it to have been Helen Kimball. It must have been someone else. She related she remembered being a toddler and her father coming to her mother, and how they two would go off to be alone together whenever he came. My mom passed 10 years ago so I have no way to asked about all this, but I wish I had thought to while she was still alive and I could have done a deeper dive into it. But it makes me think if all true then there were wives known to the church that perhaps we don’t have record of.
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30"
John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12.
She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today.
Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts.
He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.
i read the book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was a smart atheist. He wanted to do things laws didn't allow and he saw churches had tax free status.
He would send the men overseas on missions and marry their wives and take their money for the "church."
--No Man Knows My History, Fawn Brodie
Nice quick hit!
3 sister combos and 1 mother daughter combo!?!?!? 😱😱😱😱😱
Can someone explain to me why you wouldn't want to be like this man?
The cool thing id that you don't talk about religion at all, just exposing facts about the life of Joseph Smith and leaving people to make their own conclusions
So about 20 most people would object too. What about the other 15 or so?
Why do I feel bad hitting the "like" button?
brainwashing is real
Hurts so good!!!
SpongeBob: I’ve never seen so many wives!! How many do you think there are?
Patrick: ......ten.
SpongeBob: Cool.
Bam. Mic drop. Good job 👍.
Although.....the whole thing makes me really sick..... Just need to note that.....
Hang in there, Redrock! It gets better!!!
Do we know how far into his marriage, did he take on other wives?
I was raised in a cult, I left 16 years ago at the age of 21 and this guy Joseph Smith reminds me alot of the cult leader grew up with.
Man, wish I could rep a THRIVE hat 😉
Question from an active LDS Church member.
I have a genuine question for former Mormons. Sometimes I hear that part of the reason people leave the church is because Joseph Smith pressured underage girls into marrying him.
I am not at all trying to defend what he did but I am very curious to those of you who became Christians what do you think about Old Testament prophets like Moses, Joshua and Samuel telling Israel that God told them to kill everyone, men, women and children in a given city? Or how do you feel about Abraham and Jacob having children with concubines who clearly had no choice in the matter?
Again I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith. I genuinely want to better understand why for you one is okay and the other is not.
@tapir rider that’s fair. How do you feel about the Children of Israel destroying whole cities in the Old Testament? Why is that okay and Joseph Smith’s polygamy not okay? Honestly, I am not trying to defend it. I am genuinely curious.
@tapir rider that would solve it. I have never heard that before. Thanks for sharing!
The man literally went against Gods law in many ways. Marrying a mother and daughter and marrying other mens wives and said his revelations came from an angel of God. He is a liar. This is straight deception of the devil. How can you be a part of that mans church or read his book. Jesus said. You will know them by their fruits. His fruit is corrupt and you still go to his church he created.
@@sh-sr1xs like I said I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith’s polygamy. I am curious to know how you justify the genocide in the Bible. Can you help me understand why one is okay and the other is not?
@@robertrussell7468 What genocide? You mean God waiting for the cup of sinful nations to become full before completely killing everyone in it? Just like He will do in the end Himself to all who had a chance to repent but refused to. That's justifiable. It's not justifiable to follow a man who lied about the things of God who is doing the work of the devil that will also lead many to hell. Mormons need to repent of many false teachings that they feel no need to repent of and that is what will send them to hell. Corrupting the image and ways of God is big sin.
A lot of them sealed themselves to Joseph after he died
Why was polygamy an” abomination” in Nephis words and time - but necessary in 19th century New York ?
OMG..MOst of this happened an Hour North of me Here in Ohio, In Kirtland and Hiram..Makes Me Wanna Move Out Of Ohio..ASAP! Keep up the Great Work, John!
Thanks, Stuart!
What many ignorant people on this site do not realize is that neither Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young wanted to practice polygamy, even after it was commanded! Joseph had to be threatened by an angel several times before he finally complied, and when Brigham you saw a wagon carrying a dead person in a casket, he said he envied him because of his dislike for that commandment!!!
Just like how muhamad(the Islamic prophet)was commanded to marry multiple wives, one aisha who was nine years old. What a strange coincidence???.
These God ordained relationships were dynastic, spiritual, not worldly 😂😂😂😂
Why do you say that? What does the D&C (word of god) say about polygamy?
"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk. ‘ (Henry David Thoreau)
@@shawnbradford2243 , D&C declares that Joseph should tap celestial OPP lest the Lord smite the entire earth with a sore and grievous to be born among all nations an awful cursing of damnation bottled up unto much weeping and wailing .
@@michaeltaylors2456 you mean no angels with flaming swords have visited you telling you if you don’t marry a child he will kill you 😂😂😂 I thought that was commonplace
Does everyone realize Mary was visited by a angel, letting her know she would be receiving thru Holy Spirit the seed of Jesus , she would be blessed all women , she could of said no , she knew in her time it wasn’t look upon favorably! Holy Spirit in a dream informed Joseph ! A women not a man was used ! Jesus used women as much as men , and loving kind to them , and they loved him and felt respected by Jesus ! By the way , it’s my wife typing this !
2:21
Leviticus 18:17
“’Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
It has always been known that there was polygamy in the church
The Bible says in Deuteronomy 17:17 : "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. " God said, do not have more than one wife. Unfortunately the patriarchs didnt listen to God & faced consequences, like David & Solomon. Proph. Mohd was better than Smith in controlling their lustful desires. !!
14?
But, the Mormon Jesus is the same Jesus in the Bible... really?
MORMON Jesus makes fat stacks he has a luxury shopping mall and $100 Billion in the bank
Members of the Community Of Christ church might disagree with this.
Joseph Smith was *sealed* to other men's wives. Today the sealing ceremony is synonymous with marriage but that was not always so, in the early days it was seen as creating a link especially linking a family to the prophet via the women of the family. Often it was considered they would be his wife in the next life but not in this. Very strange and very different to how things are done now. I won't claim to agree or disagree but I will say it's misleading to call all of those marriages when the people themselves at the time considered a sealing to be something different.
Does it matter if they were ALL consummated marriages? The semantics of whether they were what we today would call marriages seems like deflecting. Surely you can see by the evidence that at least some of them were sexual.
@@Mattwon97 you're missing the point. He can be sealed to women who were married already and not consider it a marriage during their lifetime to be consummated. Yes there were others that were considered wives by title, and surely we're consummated.
@@BehavingBradly But isn't the only point that really matters is that he practiced polygamy and polyandry? It appears that you are only contesting the numbers of wives he took by claiming that some were just "sealings" and not actual marriages.
I think one of the major historical problems with this explanation is the means by which his polygamy was revealed. A reporter discovered what he was doing and put it to print. Joseph had been denying that he was involved with polygamous or polyandrous relationships up to this point. There was no "sealing" defense made, that I am aware of. When the paper printed its first copy and Joseph found out about it, he took his men and they went down and destroyed the press to prevent it from getting out. Does this sound like a man just practicing a "sealing" ordinance?
It was at this point the government of the United States started coming down on him because at that time he was the mayor or something of the city and he violated the constitution when he destroyed the press.
The other detail that should concern you is that he married/"sealed" himself to many of the woman without Emma's knowledge. When the paper revealed the truth he received a revelation that first wives have a right of veto.
So as far as I have seen, the local non-Mormons recognized what they were seeing was marriage and Joseph didn't try to defend it by saying, "this isn't a marriage ceremony, its a sealing ceremony and it has this meaning..." He tried to hide the fact of what he was doing and tried to destroy the means to spread the truth about it.
That, to me, is enough. The justification of "sealing" came as an apologetic against the critiques given but it wasn't the original motive and as you have admitted Joseph did marry and have sex with many of them. All it takes is 1 to demonstrate he was a polygamist.
@@Mattwon97 Yes, definitely. I never denied that he was married to multiple wives and that they were wives in every sense. What I'm pointing out is that the sealing to women already married was not a marriage. Today the LDS have ceremonies to seal together spouses, but there is also a concept of sealing to parents. This joining or binding together is not always in the context of marriage. That was my point.
What gets me wondering is what motivated these women to engage with Joseph Smith is any plural marriage or sexual union. Before the sexual act what was the wedding ceremony like and who officiated at the weddings or was this wedding even actually occurred? In other words, how did this man get all of this female flesh in his arms and his male organ into the woman's reproductive area so easily? I look back at my life and I have had trips to the brothels in Hawaii during my army tour, trips down to the poor section of Lexington, KY during my university days, called the escort service after I got married and several Asian sex tours to Pattaya. Every time I have shelled out cash to get what I wanted to get from the females, never claimed that I was a prophet and did NOT get anyone pregnant. So, I wonder how Joseph Smith worked his magic with these females and even got some of his seeds pasted on to the future generations? I have had encounters with followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I have read much about them and how they got started. In current times I wonder how so many followers have had their lives consumed by the Mormons and what motivates this behavior. Then I remember my past and how the desire to engage in sex has in some ways consumed myself as anyone can go Google my name in the Internet under "Randall Kehrt" and see my past. In summary the flesh is weak and it takes a character with a strong mind to resist what the animal nature in us desires. So I lacked character to resist the females in the past but NOW at age 66 I am beginning to have some resistance as enough money has been spent. In summary, the human mind and body has desires that must be met or we go crazy. I now go back to my Internet viewing...........
You should do a series on each of the books within the book of mormon .... give us a quick history of the major plots and twists of the book so that those who haven't read it or can't remember it can quickly explain it
Not sure that's in my wheelhouse, William!!!!
ok wait - the year of polygamy site has interviews with Julie Rowe and promotes Chad Daybell's books. No thanks.
Awesome
How many children did he have?
Incredible.
Lol sex is a pretty basic part of marriage what's the big deal? If any of you Christians think you're going to show up to heaven and see the ancient prophets with only one wife you've got another thing coming.
That man was so loving.
If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later the baby Jesus was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30"
John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12.
She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today.
Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts.
He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK RUclips VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.