The Happiness Letter - A Study in Religious Manipulation
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- When you look at the methods that an acknowledged religious sexual predator like David Berg of "The Children of God" or Julius Shacknow of "The Work" use to prey upon the believing and devoted people in their groups - you learn the rhetorical tools of that type of manipulative religious charlatan.
The details differ slightly from case to case - but it always seems to include a charismatic man claiming divine sanction to indulge in unorthodox secret sexual practices imposed upon believers with the idea that acceptance and obedience to the same is the key to being in good standing before God and/or the group. Other theological and cultural rationalizations are heaped on top - most of which have similarities you can see if you listen to the stories of those victims who survive and tell their stories.
By examining these patterns - you essentially learn what that type of metaphorical duck's "quack" sounds like.
You might then examine the teachings and messages of some other religious leader and look for that same signaling in their discourse. Once you identify it - you are compelled to acknowledge that the sound of the quack tells you that you are dealing with that type of duck.
So if you listen to David Koresh claim that he is God's chosen lamb and his convoluted theological justification for dissolving the marriage covenants of the members of his group so that he could have sexual access to all the women and girls - you don't for a second see him as uniquely God's anointed because you have seen fifty other men claiming some other elaborate religious justification for sexual unorthodoxy.
If it quacks like a duck...
But what happens when you take a revered letter from Joseph Smith and you examine the manipulative signals woven throughout its prose - only to find the same pattern?
The "Happiness Letter" was written by Joseph to Nancy Rigdon in an attempt to explain why Joseph's proposal of secret extramarital relations with her was actually approved of by God - and not a sinful act of adultery. A thorough examination of the language of that letter in the context of its creation is an eye-opening peek into the private world of the Prophet as he attempts to persuade a teenager whom he had known since childhood to consent to be a plural wife at best or a secret concubine at worst.
This is the presentation delivered at the 2019 Sunstone Symposium.
Official Record of Happiness Letter: www.josephsmit...
Reading of the Happiness Letter as recorded in Church History: • The Happiness Letter -...
Full In-Depth discussion of the events surrounding the creation of the Happiness Letter: • Mormon Discussions: Na...
The ending really made the point for me. I didnt realize until now how often the happiness letter has been used in general conference talks. That letter is disgusting
“Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God.”
This used to be one of my favorite quotes. It broke my heart when I learned it was part of of a letter that Joseph Smith wrote to try to manipulate Nancy Rigdon into being his many plural wives.
What primary source evidence is there that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist? Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Bryan Millet spammer
@@bryanmillet5840 - "The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives."
@@@shaylee85 You have no primary source evidence for Joseph Smith, Jr. and him ever having a plural marriage.
@@shaylee85, That is not any primary source evidence. Primary Sources are immediate, first-hand accounts of a topic, from people who had a direct connection with it. Secondary Sources are one step removed from primary sources, though they often quote or otherwise use primary sources. They can cover the same topic, but add a layer of interpretation and analysis. -- umb.libguides.com/PrimarySources/secondary
Holy-moly... THAT was incredibly done!!!!
I never heard of the Happiness Letter before, but sure as heck heard its never ending programming coming from the Mormon pulpit!
Well done and thank you for this information!!!
Recommend: “ RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman. Well documented history.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together and presenting it so well. I find all the manipulative tactics used by religious leaders fascinating to study and try to understand.
Lucky Joseph was there to test Sidney's daughter lol. Otherwise how else would we know she was a virtuous woman?!? Thank God for Joseph. Always willing to put himself on the line in order to test people.
JS's interaction with Nancy is worthy of close inspection. Thanks so much Jonathan for using your talents and taking the time to do this.
@Kent Thalman, Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Bryan Millet Bryan you are spamming...
@@Selah57, No, I am giving a similar message to numerous people. Spamming means, "the use of messaging systems to send an unsolicited message (spam), especially advertising, as well as sending messages repeatedly on the same website." I am not doing that. Thanks for your vote. Do you also think that Joseph Smith, Jr. is a polygamist without providing any evidence?
@@bryanmillet5840 Your attempt to cast doubt on Smith's plural/polyandrous marriages to about 33 young teenage girls, other women, and married women is futile. You just wrote that spamming is also : "...sending messages repeatedly on the same website." I am not doing that." You're a blatant liar!. You wrote the EXACT same message on this thread further up and repeated yourself here as well!!!.
Also trying to elicit Tracey's "vote", well... you're dreaming. Could you possibly dribble more shit?.
Your church has stated numerous times that Smith had married other women and children.
Pull your head out of your arse and check your church history. These facts are conceded even in the sanitized version presented by your leaders.
That montage at the end is intense!
I was there for your Sunstone presentation and loved it. Great job, Jonathan.
When will we get a new video from you, Dan? Looking forward to it!
@@joshua.snyder Soon, I hope.
@@danvogel6802 Always worth the wait.
Is there evidence that this is actually in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr.? It doesn't match what I have seen in his other writings. Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@Rodger Moffett, Is your language always this colorful? No, just because the LDS Church representatives have placed words on a website, does not provide any primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was a polygamist, nor that Willard Richards was appointed by Joseph Smith, Jr. to be his scribe.
Polygamy is not of God
Joseph Smith, Jr. and also Emma (Hale) Smith both denied polygamy until the day that they died. One such example is found in the Doctrine & Covenants in both the 1835 and the 1844 editions. That doctrine is found in sections 101:4 and 109:4 respectively. It says, "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife; and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."
Another example where God did not command that polygamy be practiced is found in the fact that God commanded His people with certain commandments concerning the kings in Israel. Those commandments are found in Deuteronomy chapter 17 verses 14-20 (especially verse 17). Here it is for your convenience:
"14 When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose; one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses; forasmuch as the Lord hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away; neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites;
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them;
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left; to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel."
In 1 Kings 11:3-6, was evidence that the kings didn't follow the commands of God as found above in Deuteronomy. It says,
"3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, and it became as the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, as David his father, and went not fully after the Lord."
A second witness can be found in the Book of Mormon in Jacob chapter 1 verses 15-16, which says,
"15 And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old, desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son:
16 Yea, and they also began to search much gold and silver, and began to be lifted up somewhat in pride;"
This stands in the face of the LDS D&C 132 that says that David nor Solomon sinned against God by practicing polygamy (multiplying wives). Therefore, this revelation that was 'claimed' to be from Joseph Smith, Jr. is false doctrine.
To access the 1835 and 1844 Doctrine and Covenants, here are the directions: 1. Go to www.josephsmithpapers.org/ and click on "The Papers" in the black banner at the top. 2. In the center column click on "published revelations (7)". 3. In the right column click on either "Doctrine and Covenants, 1835" or "Doctrine and Covenants, 1844". 4. Now click on the down arrow next to "Table of Contents" and scroll down to the bottom. 5. In the 1835 it is the 6th from the bottom, and in 1844 it is the 4th from the bottom. 6. Click on "Statement on Marriage" and scroll down to verse 4. (in the 1844, you need to go to the next page to the right).
This article says what I have said, and much more: facebook.com/notes/manofgod1830org-defending-joseph-smith/thou-shalt-not-lie-he-that-lieth-and-will-not-repent-shall-be-cast-out/371441066656625/
Your videos are so good. Thank you for all you do in exposing what the Mormon Church is really about.
This was done so well, I have lost some dear friends to this cult, still praying...
"...in Joseph's new religious framework, there is only one virtue: obedience." Not sure this is the interpretation Jesus was going for when he said "love one another."
Jonathan, this is a fantastic presentation. Thanks for sharing. ❤
This was brilliant again, thank you Jonathan
This deconstruction of The Happiness Letter is well done. Exposing JS narcissistic cunning and use of manipulative language to gain his perverse objectives. For all his charismatic conjuring, JS tactics are nothing new but aligns him with the other deviant cult leaders mentioned in the presentation.
This is excellent. Thank you!
Loved this. I've never heard of this letter.
I hadn't either. It is reprehensible that it is still used in part as quotes in general conference.
@@jcee6886 First off, what primary source evidence is there that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist? Was this letter in Joseph's handwriting? It doesn't state anything about polygamy. Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Soooo.. Smith's 33 wives doesn't give you a clue?.
Best video!! I love the end. They are carrying on the manipulation
Found your channel through the 3 Apostates videos - to which I look forward! Love your historical analysis. I have a friend who was excommunicated from the LDS for being lesbian - had to leave her children (now they're with her and out of the church), but she was devastated. Never shunned - at least her family were part in/part out and made up their own minds about their daughter/sibling. Keep up the great work!
Well done! I'd give my right arm if family and friends would listen to this and try to prove it wrong!
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Spamming again.
I just watched again for the third time. Thanks so much for all of the effort to find and edit the clips there at the end!! Great presentation!! Thank you!!
Awesome info!!! Historic, academic, & done with ❤️!!! Thank you so much! This is so important!
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 it seems that the church validates the letter and his polygamy.
Both a refreshing and disturbing look on a letter I had no idea existed. I have to say, it's very nice of the man to have left written evidence of his pathological manipulative behaviour and language. It was quite amazing that no a sentence was without obvious manipulation and no sentence had only one manipulative tactic in it. It's good to learn what tactics are used and work well on people so we can learn to spot them and articulate what is wrong with it and guard us and help others guard themselves from falling for it with all the devastating possible effects on the person and their loved ones and the society they live in.
It's also good to be reminded that we are all vulnerable to certain manipulation tactics and that it doesn't take stupidity to fall for it but a skillful manipulator who knows the sensitivities and weaknesses of their target audience better than the audience knows those. I suppose that for true happiness one would do well to know themselves and especially their vulnerabilities.
For example: I, as billions of others am sensitive to neglecting to think critically and fact check someone who sounds convincing. Also, if you have pretty eyes and you're feminine, I'm just reduced to a drooling idiot and I rely on the goodness of your heart. I'm also kind and very loving, so if one is to take advantage of that, they lose more than I do, if they ever had a chance to love and be loved in return, which would just be sadder and not a case of someone getting away with any repurcussions.
This was so thoughtful and well done. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this and for sharing it. We appreciate so much of your work in our home
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Joe was fond of the rock in hat approach. He didn't have to write anything.
@@bryanmillet5840 Spamming again.
@@bryanmillet5840 Now tell us how the Fancher/Baker party attacked the MORmONS by sending their children out to bust their pistol butts with their heads...
Thorough, analytical, logical, and conclusive as always, Jonathan.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Wham bam Bryan's a spam.
This video was excellent….thank you from the bottom of my heart for validating (a mail in the coffin) of what I’ve already learned about the false prophet Joseph Smith. The only one you omitted was Warren Jeffs. Joseph in my opinion should be included in one of the many false prophets in the last days as described in Mathew 24.
The last part really drives the nail in the coffin. And to the apologists: would you have followed the teachings of such a predator had you known this beforehand?
Read Fawn Brodie’s No Man Knows My History, an excellent biography of Joseph Smith. This is a riveting account of Smith’s life. Lots of sources provided. For history lovers it is a must read.
Agreed
This channel is important in showing just how much corruption and sickness went into building the LDS foundation.
@NaDopros, Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 You are very desperate
@@bryanmillet5840 Notice no one thumbs-upped any of your posts after three years... take the hint, Feebus!
@@bryanmillet5840 i hope you apply that same level of scrutiny to the origins of the Book of Mormon, because it is very demonstrably false.
@@tomookay Yes, I apply the same scrutiny to everything that I do.
Here’s one: Why are we calling our Savior Jesus, when Jesus is a Greek name? In Hebrew, it would be Yehoshua. In Aramaic, it would be Yeshua. Translate to modern English? That would be Joshua.
Wow, would I like to spend a semester with you!!!
Excellent presentation.!
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Does the identity of the writer change the fact that every sentence in it was riddled with manipulation tactics and that religion can be and is used to justify using such tactics and that the rejection of logical fallacies as justification for anything will make it impossible to accept any justification for religious belief and manipulation when they're shown to be logical fallacies?
@@stylis666 Bryan is a Butt Scout leader and the LDS will pull their support if he doesn't lie, jeer and mock for the gang...
Excellent... Well presented ...
Thank you, Jonathan! This was fantastic!
Snap! Phenomenal work and so brave for you to present this at Sunstone. Thank you!
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Spamming again.
@@bryanmillet5840 Thank you, Bryan David Mitchell...
Ha-PENIS Letter.
So it turns out that "line upon line, precept on precept" is actually spiritual manipulation. A principle intended to legitimize "leading" people into who-knows-what without their informed consent.
Interesting ... 🤔
Who decides what is “of God?” Joseph took this to extremes to satisfy himself. He says he speaks for God, but he is an artful manipulative adulterer. He admitted that not all “prophesy” was from God. So the obvious comes into play, that Joseph was choosing to cover his adultery by saying it was not sin. Convenient, abusive, evil.
Silly me. I thought the object and design of our existence was to glorify God.
Silly you. No, it's supposed to be selfishness.
It’s to get gain and prosper according to your own genius.
Amen! 🙏
Moira
From England.
Dave Did you escape USP?
@@karlgharst5420 What is USP?
Jonathan - again, well done and well organized.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Bryan Millet you are spamming.
@@bryanmillet5840 Spamming yet again!
@@bryanmillet5840 That "Butt Scout Master" grin is a classic...!
Maybe it was incorrectly written by Joe's scribe. It may have originally been Horniness is the object of my existence.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Great presentation, had not heard of this letter
Thank you! This is fantastic!
Simply awesome, Jonathan! Thank you.
Yay, we get Jonathan instead of boring church clips w/o your awesome commentary. ❤️
Jonathan, recently discovered your blog and youtube channel. Thank you for providing thought provoking commentary and analysis. I'm encouraged to evaluate my former positions and test the rationale employed to buttress them. Those questioning the veracity of your source material have to contend with the fact that other words of Joseph Smith, canonized by the Church, were recorded by scribes. If we apply the same test fairly and evenly to our own scripture, we would jettison all first vision accounts other than the 1832 version written in Smith's hand. If we apply the test rigourously, we would be forced to throw out the Book of Mormon, as the translation was not written by Joseph himself but through various scribes. Your critics here question your methodology, but such questioning must also be applied to the numerous instances in which this letter was quoted in General Conference. If we accept this letter is a fabrication of Willard Richards as your critics imply, do we also accept the necessary implication that numerous leaders have erroneously quoted Joseph Smith from the pulpit of General Conference?
I'd invite the critic to offer their response to this question, if The Happiness Letter is falsely attributed to Joseph Smith in this presentation, what is the standard by which we can correctly attribute quotations to Joseph Smith? Follow up question, if such a standard exists, can we and should we apply it universally to all of Joseph Smith's currently accepted teachings?
"The Happiness Letter" - they sure managed to get that branded pretty far from what it actually is, it is a bit suppressing they still are referencing it, verses one more thing kept out of site and mind.
34:40 is why I'm here
I agree. It is a classic explanation of the strong arm techniques of some religions.
@@saxyricks4731 Some?
That portion is exactly what my Bishop and Stake President attempted to do with my wife and I. We left the manipulation rather than to continue following these clowns. Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Bryan Millet spam
We’ll done!
Excellent presentation! Thank you for all your insightful analysis!
Jim Jones and "Old Man" from Pawn Stars are the same man; or else twins. Forensic analysis has proven so.
Thanks you well done! Never heard of it in detail till now!! 🙏
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Epicurianism is my philosophy. Seek pleasure, so long as it harms no one. (Pleasure is in serving others, not a nebulous, Ill-defined deity)
Define harm. And do please include how much complexity is required before you consider something harmful.
I know Joseph was tarred and feathered but he should also have been drawn and quartered.
That's a bit much. Castrated maybe?
@@joshua.snyder OK. I'll settle for that.
They were going to castrate Joseph on the night he was tarred and feathered.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@mdennisrva4301 LDS claims no convictions for Smith and his 42 arrests...
Quitting the Mormon Church (Unabridged)
I have been thinking of quitting the Mormon Church. Yes, if I can, I am going to get even with that church. As soon as I can find another church that teaches about the Gathering of the House of Israel; the return of the Ten Tribes and their mission; the return of the Jews to Palestine and why, and how they are going to build the temple; the building of temples and what to do with them; the mission of Elias, the prophet, as predicted by Malachi; the method for the salvation of the people that died at the time of Noah in the flood; the origin of the American Indian; the complete explanation of why Jesus of Nazareth had to have a mortal mother but not a mortal father; the explanation of the three degrees of glory (three heavens) as mentioned by Paul; the complete explanation of why Elias and Moses did not die but had to be translated (since they both lived before the resurrection was introduced by Christ); the restoration of the gospel by modern revelation as promised by Peter and Paul and Jesus himself; the belief in eternal marriage and the family, and the knowledge and the place to seal for eternity; that teaches abstinence from all harmful drugs and foods; and that sells the best fire insurance policy on earth, for the last days, for only a tenth of my income.
Yes sir, as soon as I can find another church that teaches all that, or even half as much, I will say good-bye to this Mormon Church. The church that I am looking for must also be able to motivate 90,000+ youth, and adults, for the first, second or third time, to leave their homes for two years at their own expense and go to far-away places to teach and preach without salary. It must be able to call, on a frosty day, some 5 or 6 thousand professors, students, lawyers, doctors, judges, policemen, businessmen, housewives and children to go and pick apples at 6 am. It must be able to call meetings and get the attention for two hours of more than 300,000 men. Yes, it must also teach and show why salvation is assured for children who die before eight years of age.
Mr. Editor, could you help me find a church that teaches all that and more than hundreds of other doctrines and principles, which I have no room to mention here, and which brings solace and comfort to the soul; peace, hope, and salvation to mankind, and above all, that answers the key questions that all the great philosophers have asked; questions and answers that explain the meaning of life, the purpose of death, suffering and pain; the absolute need for a Redeemer and the marvelous plan conceived by our Father and executed by Jesus Christ the Savior? Yes, as soon as I find another church that teaches that, and also that has the organization and the powers to make that teaching effective, I am going to quit the Mormon Church.
For I should not tolerate that “they” should change a few words in the Book of Mormon - even if those changes simply improve the grammar and the syntax of the verses - for, after all, don’t you think the Divine Church should employ angels as bookmakers, and clerks, to do all the chores on earth? Don’t you think, Mr. Editor that the Divine Church should also have prophets that don’t get sick and don’t get old and die, and certainly, that don’t make a goof here and there. No, sir! A Divine Church should be so divine that only perfect people should belong to it, and only perfect people should run it.
As a matter of fact, the Church should be so perfect that it should not even be here on earth!
So, I repeat, if any one of the kind readers of this imperfect letter knows about another church that teaches and does as much for mankind as the Mormon Church, please let me know. And please do it soon, because my turn to go to the cannery is coming up. Also, “they” want my last son (the fifth one) to go away for two years and again, I have to pay for all that. And I also know that they expect me to go to the farm to prune trees, and I have heard that our ward is going to be divided again, and it is our side that must build the new chapel. And also, someone the other day had the gall of suggesting that my wife and I get ready to go on a second mission, and when you come back, they said, you can volunteer as a temple worker. Boy, these Mormons don’t leave you alone for a minute. And what do I get for all that, I asked? “Well,” they said, “for one, you can look forward to a funeral service at no charge!”… Do you think you can help me to find another church?
Thomas D. Clark
The special pleading is just asinine and continues today to justify men like DHO and the church’s stances, practices and policies we would not tolerate from other groups with respect to human rights, fiscal responsibility/transparency and abusive rhetoric.
Awesome!
Brilliant
Please read " Joseph Smith Fought Against Poligamy. "
Thanks for expounding all these incriminating facts. Even the most devout members, if exposed to this information you have been providing, will find it difficult to plug all the holes. Eventually the ship sinks!
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
More of Joseph contradicting himself. Alma 41:10 ......”wicked never was happiness”
As usual he ignores the fraud which is the book of mormon in his own manipulative sexual schemes.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
I wonder what percentage of the women in the early church were propositioned by Joseph Smith . . . too bad we will never know. #josephsmithpropositionedmetoo
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Biblically the path is already set we don't have to pursue it. It's set before us it's trust in the Lord and His word. Now is someone preaches another Word he is a false teacher flee from him
is it possible to get a print out of this talk, as I saw you were reading off an ipad - is it posted on-line? - would LOVE to study it - thanks
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Spamming again.. tick tick ... spamming again.. tick tick..
Did you know L Ron Hubbard was a one time bigamist? He is not known to be a pedophile however to my knowledge.
I'm curious as to why you left out the following facts regarding this letter? The happiness letter was an unsigned letter that was sent to Nancy. John C. Bennett who had been excommunicated and outed for his widespread adultery and "spiritual wifery" published it and attributed it to Joseph (yeah that's credible)
Here is what John C. Bennett himself said regarding the letter:
"The original (letter) in the handwriting of Dr. Richards, is now in my [Dr. Bennett's] possession. It was handed me by Colonel F. M. Higbee, in the presence of General George W. Robinson. "(John C. Bennett, The History of the Saints; or, An Expose of Joe Smith and Mormonism [Boston: Leland & Whiting, 1842]: 243-245; LDS History of the Church @4-136)
The letter was in Richards writing (who is Richards related to?) And research Higbee.
Concerning the "Happiness" letter, Sidney Rigdon wrote, "I would further state that Mr. [Joseph] Smith denied to me the authorship of that letter" (Wasp, September 3, 1842).
Editor William Smith published, "The sixth letter is what purposes to be a copy of a letter from Joseph Smith to Miss Nancy Rigdon. Joseph Smith is not the author" (Wasp 1 [August 27, 1842]
So... if that's true, why would church leaders mention the letter in General Conference if it wasn't from Joseph Smith?
@@naikou1633 I can't answer to why they would do what they do perhaps they like that quote from the letter or perhaps he had said that one phrase on another occasion. Whatever the reason, it doesn't change the facts I listed above.
@@freethinker1026 Why moronically repeat the "happiness" quote if the LDS didn't revere it?
Joseph never was a polygamist. He vigorously taught against it even a few weeks after his death. 4 days before he death he said he was going to stamp out the vile doctrine from the apostles.
Who stood to gain the most from polygamy? Who taught the most against the doctrine.
This letter is not from Joseph. It is sad that for years I believed the narrative and thought Emma was a "wayward" person.
It speaks well of your conscience that you don't want to see Joseph as having anything to do with this letter or polygamy in general.
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 The evidence strongly suggests that Brigham was the first polygamist and not Joseph.
Brigham corrupted mormonism not Joseph.
ruclips.net/video/F5heXE5xS5w/видео.html
Have you considered that the “Happiness Letter” is not providential and truly attached to JSs? Willard Richards is a questionable subject and was the only unscathed person in Carthage. It’s only after JSs death that this “letter” is presented. Nothing written in SRs hand support the authenticity of the claim. Richards becomes BYs first councilor and the church historian. Lots of people lay the push to alter church doctrine on BY who admits that he and Richards rewrote the history. Feels questionable to a thinker of thoughts.
The letter was published before Joseph Smith’s death. We do discuss the issues with provenance in this presentation. I consulted with Brian hales on it and his position is that there’s nothing in the happiness letter that is not also found in other teachings of Joseph Smith, and that if the letter was a fabrication by John C Bennett, or somebody else they would make it much more salacious, and obvious than the sophisticated way these concepts are presented here.
I appreciate that the desire to disconnect Joseph Smith from this letter is a testament to the terrible nature of the letters contents.
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 I appreciate your response and will look deeper into your research. I’m no longer a member however I find that BY and Willard Richards are suspiciously involved with manipulating the documents. I don’t believe JS is guiltless but wonder if eliminating him was an insider’s coup. When I follow the money it’s BY who gains everything and is the real founder of the Salt Lake church.
@@ajadamsv9208 I meant to link this presentation which is a deep dive into the historical context:
ruclips.net/video/KJUtmzt3fJc/видео.html
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 I appreciate it. I’m a fan of Bill Reel. He seems willing to allow for critical thinking and differing opinions on questionable documents and their origins. The Brighamite’s of Salt Lake have long protected BY from criticism and support his promulgation and his narrative of the JS history. They have selectively removed contradictory statements and often use sources from third parties and decades after the fact to create a JS narrative and assign it as first person. As I stated earlier I’m not a believer in JSs foundational message and believe he was a power seeker in many ways. But I find in my research that the real villains in this story are BY, HCK, JT and Willard Richards. Would love to see some of your research into the possibility of a coup. Thank you for your time and conversation.
ruclips.net/video/jw6iW2Jgiww/видео.html
Here’s a good presentation recently done regarding the tar and feathers.
What primary source evidence is there that this letter is actually in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr.?
It was originally said to be written in the hand of Willard Richard's under dictation of Joseph Smith. The original letter does not exist. We only have the reproduction from John C Bennetts book.
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974, Then there is no evidence that this is by Joseph Smith, Jr. at all! By the way Jonathan, I have loved your videos, but I am not convinced that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist. There are no children (the main reason for polygamy according to LDS D&C 132), no marriage licenses, no primary source evidence that shows he was a polygamist. Joseph Smith, Jr. and also Emma (Hale) Smith both denied polygamy until the day that they died. One such example is found in the Doctrine & Covenants in both the 1835 and the 1844 editions. That doctrine is found in sections 101:4 and 109:4 respectively. It says, "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife; and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."
Another example where God did not command that polygamy be practiced is found in the fact that God commanded His people with certain commandments concerning the kings in Israel. Those commandments are found in Deuteronomy chapter 17 verses 14-20 (especially verse 17). Here it is for your convenience:
"14 When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose; one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses; forasmuch as the Lord hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away; neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites;
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them;
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left; to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel."
In 1 Kings 11:3-6, was evidence that the kings didn't follow the commands of God as found above in Deuteronomy. It says,
"3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, and it became as the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, as David his father, and went not fully after the Lord."
A second witness can be found in the Book of Mormon in Jacob chapter 1 verses 15-16, which says,
"15 And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old, desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son:
16 Yea, and they also began to search much gold and silver, and began to be lifted up somewhat in pride;"
This stands in the face of the LDS D&C 132 that says that David nor Solomon sinned against God by practicing polygamy (multiplying wives). Therefore, this revelation that was 'claimed' to be from Joseph Smith, Jr. is false doctrine.
To access the 1835 and 1844 Doctrine and Covenants, here are the directions: 1. Go to www.josephsmithpapers.org/ and click on "The Papers" in the black banner at the top. 2. In the center column click on "published revelations (7)". 3. In the right column click on either "Doctrine and Covenants, 1835" or "Doctrine and Covenants, 1844". 4. Now click on the down arrow next to "Table of Contents" and scroll down to the bottom. 5. In the 1835 it is the 6th from the bottom, and in 1844 it is the 4th from the bottom. 6. Click on "Statement on Marriage" and scroll down to verse 4. (in the 1844, you need to go to the next page to the right).
This article says what I have said, and much more: facebook.com/notes/manofgod1830org-defending-joseph-smith/thou-shalt-not-lie-he-that-lieth-and-will-not-repent-shall-be-cast-out/371441066656625/
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974, Try this one out for size: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/still-mormon/id1494521349?i=1000462540850&fbclid=IwAR3co96I-AVFLYh-DvcsimIJriBf_kZqxQBQ_fa9T9R9wwI1xqR4BCzHwmc --- What are your thoughts?
It does you credit that you wouldn't want this letter attributed to Joseph
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974, So what primary source evidence is there that it is from Joseph Smith, Jr.? Willard Richards was Brigham Young's first cousin. Their mothers were sisters (Abigail and Rhoda). I don't believe that Willard Richards was ever officially Joseph Smith's scribe. I think that he was attributed as a scribe because of his handwriting showing up everywhere, when Brigham Young was altering the history of the church. Why would Joseph have the letter dictated? I don't see the evidence. I am not a member of the LDS lying Church, by the way.
Today this man devoted one percent of the effort he puts into his lies, and attacks, he’d be richer than he could ever imagine.
what do you mean?
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 I got this!
He means: If you leave out of a then that sentence can very confusing and meaningless.
But I actually constructed mine in such a stupid way that you can probably figure out what I meant :p
I practice hard :p Great presentation! I'm very grateful for your insights. I think you did a great job sticking to facts and not showing too much of your opinion about those. It made it a lot easier to keep a sane distance from the disturbing atmosphere of the letter. Syntax error intended.
@@bryanmillet5840 the BOM isn’t written in Joseph’s handwriting, does that mean he didn’t author that either? He was well known for spiritually manipulating women into polygamy.
I find this hit piece on the laws and principles of exaltation to be unjustified.
Could you explain what objections you have specifically?
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 No, she can't. Your research, presentation, and conclusions are above reproach. Her response is typical of an orthodox Mormon who prefers to keep her head in the sand.
Thinker you are a liar and a deceiver. Good luck yo!
@@hudsmack, Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
is this much different than is in the bible
Luke 1:26-38 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; [a]blessed are you among women!”
29 But [b]when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I [c]do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”
38 Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
Extremely different and far from the bible.
Can you not see that Joseph has included HIMSELF in all the texts that he has created?
Ultimately it is the work of satan for only satan can conjure up such a writing that becomes a device, a tool to cunningly deceive and manipulate people through the perversion of truth.
No, you're right!
@@adamgoodword7888, Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Homie 40+ min ain’t concise
Lol, I agree. What I mean is that the historical background introduction was concise. Keep in mind you have to compare this to a later 3-hour podcast that looks at the historical background.
Holey dogma crap!
Joseph spoke for God because God said so. The only way to know that is to ask God and if you have no other ability than to "lean to thine own understanding" then you will never figure it out and you will continue to attack a prophet of God.
Matt Johnson oof. I just cannot see why God would’ve been like, “Joseph, listen, you mussssstttt proposition Nancy. Even if she says no, you must push and manipulate and threaten. Because of all the important things that are utterly important, what I must press upon you the most is the need for you to sneakily cheat on your legal wife who has been through hell already, break the law, and pursue intimate relationships with many young women. It must be done! Because, RESTORATION!!! Sure I love my daughters, and this will be something they loathe and feel repulsed and victimized by, and no I don’t need you to worry about sealing your parents to you, or your siblings, and don’t worry about sealing Emma to you for quite a long time, but by all means you must go pursuing all the prettiest, youngest women in the community and guilt them and pressure them into being your wife and/or concubine. God has spoken”. I’m sorry. Not buying it. Listen. I was ultra Mormon. Come straight through Hyrum’s line. Believed. Believe in integrity and goodness and truth. This is not ok behavior. I’m not going to blindly revere a man who has proven again and again that his character was terrible. We don’t need to make excuses for him. I won’t do it. He was a shady ass character. And I am as disappointed as anyone to figure it out.
God gave me a sense of morality and a brain. I don’t need to just say “oh God‘s ways are not my ways” to be able to tell when someone is a manipulative, sneaky, sexual predator. It’s uhhh...kinda one of those things you can’t justify
@@yeshalloween, Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
Apparently this letter was not in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr. It was supposedly in the handwriting of Willard Richards, first cousin to Brigham Young (their mothers were sisters - Rhoda and Abigail). What is the motive for Willard to write this letter, pretending to be Joseph Smith? There is no primary source evidence that Joseph Smith, Jr. was ever a polygamist - no children, no marriage license, no will, etc. Do you have any primary source evidence? If not, a man is innocent until proven guilty.
@@bryanmillet5840 Bloody hell are you are bot or what?
These are lies!!!
Which part would you say are lies?
He has no response because he knows he’s wrong but he want to believe the “official narrative” of the church. The real lies are what most of us were taught and are still taught to investigators of the church. God bless, Alex! Your father is one who propagates the official narrative of the church! Grandson? Nephew? How are you related to Mr David Bednar?