Mr. Vervaeke, it was an absolute privilege to listen into this interview, and a continuation of my own life’s adventure. To this day, I have yet to return to the video that introduced me to you: Jordan Peterson’s first podcast with you, because since putting that aside to “catch up” with your work, you have only - what can be described as - coloured with all spectrums of every known colour into what is the mosaic of my life. Your meaning crisis series is my go-to Logos gym, and constant arena to ponder and wander to find a launch pad of curiosity. I don’t normally share things publicly, but I work as an Electrician, Landscaper, First Aid attendant, Actor in film and theatre, and musician, and I intend this year to embark toward a degree in Medicine. Epictetus’ words have ingrained within me the moment I heard them, “What we need now are students to apply their learning and bare witness to their learning in their actions”, and you, Sir, your brilliant structural functional organization (haha) and all that you do… I mean this wholeheartedly that my soul would be less without the blessing of you being a part of it the way that you have. Thank you.
I like how Mr. Vervaeke is genuinely enthusiastic during the conversation. Great conversation and very intense too which made it better. Absolutely loved it.
Now well past 100k subscribers John! I have let you know this before, but I want to express my deep gratitude to you once again. You work has had a profound impact on me and many others over the last few years. God bless.
The name of the game is SYNTHESIZING!. From a HUGE fan of Vervake AND McGilChrist (AND JAYNES), Daniel Schmactenburger has demonstrated, yet again, his ability to humble himself for the purpose of synthesizing the ideas of others. Brilliant!
Ive watched it on McGilchrists channel, ive watched it on Schmachtenburgers channel, so now im watching it on Johns channel, you were on fire in this one John ❤
I commend the effort to tackle/or reconceptualize what could be the biggest challenge of our known human existence, to both understand and be able to pivot the driving forces that can both produce harmony and/or collective destruction. It is a significant task to create energy and opportunity for an individual to move into a capacity for meaning-making and build a relational connection to the internal and external, but to conceptualize a pathway that can help our collective humanity move in that direction, I deeply commend the effort I hear in this discussion. I don't have the answers, but I can say I hope to be a part of the network of those tilting our humanity into a direction of sacred connection and meaning-making. In a lot of indigenous cultures, there's a sense of responsibility and connection to the past and future generations, and I believe that spiritual obligation to past and future can play a part in how we re-define our human/spiritual relation to our environment and think of ourselves as stewards for something much larger than ourselves. Blessings and gratitude to this community.
I have once again seen this one before on a different channel. Thank you all again for this discussion. Many blessings to all who enjoy Dr. Iain McGilchrist's books and lectures, and all who participate in this world today. Bravo 👏 I think it is fairly obvious that we human beings are the history of mankind. Is it in the totality of human psychological knowledge? That is fairly obvious. The story of mankind is war, tears, bloodshed, laughter, agony, grief, loneliness, sorrow, agony, and grief. all mankind suffers, has shed tears, laughter, imitation, vulgarity, superficiality. I am all that. Otherwise, I would not elect poltiticans as they are. Right? So now I am I am all the Gods, and the God's thought has invented. From the beginning to the end of a glance for mankind to look at? One has been to all the lakes, mountains, the and all the likes of Switzerland , and one doesn't look at the entire map. This is the whole map of oneself that requires a quietness of the brain and no direction. One has the whole tone of that history. Some have experienced seeing lights, a feeling of one's, the awakening of Kundalini, inward clarity. These moments last sometimes for moments or house a lot of silly people we are, some of us, including myself. If I use my energy my energy in various forms arrogance, aggression selfish actions, competition, soaked in sorrow, and continuously about it. one is waisting energy, it wears itself out. That the very human energy which is not the energy apprehends to the total energy of the energy of the universe. What is that without a shadow of conflict? It becomes necessary to question rightly, and the whole art of questioning, as all of you are doing. There are three arts of listening. 1. The art of listening 2. The art of seeing 3. the art of learning The art of listening is to listen without interpretation. To listen without translating what one says about their own comfort desires . To listen not not only with the ear, but to listen to the word and what lies beyond the world. And to the depth that one by the depth of meaning. The art of to seeing is to observe, without the word, without the name, without the form. Which means to observe without any direction, without any motive, to observe so one captures the whole movement of oneself. The movement of the trees, of the rivers, of the mountains, the butterfly is to see. And the art of learning: As we have learned the art, i now accumulated knowledge. That is the art of knowledge. That is the art of learning. One may not know mathematics. but one studies, one has a professor who will teach me and gradually one mathematics, so one can apply to be an engineer, or a technician, to the whole technological world. Right? Love has no relationship with thought, and thought is not related to love. If we associate thought with love with thought as we do, then that brings conflict. And the perception of clarity comes with the brain is free from all anchorage, from all sense of attachment, to belief, persons and so on that frees the brain from conditioning so we can learn afresh. 1. I am nobody, but what is important is what one is. If one sees that, it gives tremendous energy, vitality, because it is no small entity. One is part of the whole community. There is beauty and love there, but most of us won't see because we are concerned with ourselves. and to step out of that circle seems impossible because we are programed like the computers. Since the tragedy of it. The machine we have created, cannot learn much faster. Infinitely more than I can, that the brain can and the brain which has invented that has become the ultra- intelligent machine. Why is there so much violence in the world? Because One has no space. That's why the biggest cities like NYC, Paris, London, they breed violence, we are to much close to one another. They have placed many rats in small places becoming totally disoriented, they eat their own children, kill one another. Time, measure, space. What is measure, psychological time. not chronological time? The whole technolical world is based on measurement and there would be no technology and this measurement has been handed down to the Western World through the Greek scholars, one can observe this, they were the originators of mathematics. So the Western World has inherited measurement comparing one painter against the other, one poet against the other, one sculptured against the other- measurement. "I am not as good." More power, more money, more fun, this is part of measurement. When one beings to uncover what love is not, there is a stillness within the space of thought. Religious divisions and wars for centuries. Why? Cultures traveling with languages beginning with the Gilgamesh Epic moving forward. We thank all of these insights from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle. Socrates wrote nothing down but he taught Plato, Plato taught Aristole, Aristotle taught Alexander the Great. So thought is a movement of time and may we ask is there a stop to time. Or is man condemned to the moment which is hell. In Sanscript also 'ma' is to measure. Meditation is measurement, and we are conditioned to measurement, "I am, I shall be." It is not what one does to end time ,what is the nature to end measurement ? The brain seeing the truth of it sets the brain free will bring freedom to the brain, because when one has space and it is the only the apprehension or the perception, which is not personal of that which is everlasting and everlasting. What is sacred? Human compassion and empathy. "I am the world and the world is me." "There are many nights as days, and the one is just as the long as the other in a years course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness and the word "happy" would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness. It is far better to take things as they come along with patience and equanimity. " C.J. Jung A general definition of civilization: a civilized society is exhibiting the fine qualities of beauty, adventure, art peace. Alfred North Whitehead All religions have truths, may there be no divisions, which produces more hate for one another. Even there are atheists that have a moral compass. An open-hearted mind and awarness consumes the lights of humanity. Spinoza was one among many of great philosophers. Krishnamurti and Alan Watts. Music ,art, and creativity are the glues that hold our world together. "The Dawn of Everything," David Grayber and Steve , archeologists. A sense of "awe" is the sacredness of seeing . A sense of joy. Where there is fear, ther cannot be joy. We are all only human. Embrace each moment with courage and immediately see with what is happening inside your heart strings that beat. Feel your pulse and breathe. 🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵
It was such a joy to hear your ideas linking up and not only finding an affinity but actually moving forward in this conversation. This was such a wonderful session. Thank you all for sharing this 🙏
Definitely appreciated this conversation. Would love to see more connection and discussion with wisdom-holders from animist traditions, or from folks doing things less traditionally in a meta-modern way, who can enrich this space and lead folks to a more interconnected/enchanted worldview and life-way. Daniel's comments about "indigenous scholar friends" pointing to the extinction of mega-fauna informing wisdom traditions made me want to know SO MUCH MORE.
I've been following your Awakening series for months now (episode 33 here we go!) but had to take a break though to listen to this! It's a great conversation and trickles down significantly to where I am in my own life and spiritual journey. Thanks for helping us all make sense of this crazy thing called life!
What an INCREDIBLE conversation!!! I fell asleep listening to something else, this conversation seeped into my sleep and I woke up and was listening even more !!! Amazing! ❤
Yes, this video, the discussion is worth the time and effort you put into it, at the very least! It is the continuation, and perhaps the most succinct yet, of a cultural discussion I have been following in recent years about how much we have lost with over-rationalization and the dismissed significance of imagination and intuition. As an artist now in my sixth decade, I had explored contemporary theory in my BFA thesis, finding a devastating nihilism at the base of it. Since then, I have discovered and now teach an entirely different kind of art, some call the Atelier Movement. We might be considered the new Avant Guard, because the lessons we teach are almost non-existent in accredited colleges and universities. What is most important to me about this movement is that we elevate Beauty, Tradition, and Artistic Mastery. Even those who practice this art may not realize the significance of what they are doing by studying Nature and great works of art from the Classical and Renaissance Periods. To me, it is the acknowledgment of inherent meaning in reality, the beauty of life, and the dignity of all humans. From your discussion here, I can articulate just what my school is striving for! Thank you, all three. Holly White-Gehrt, Texas Hill Country Atelier.
John you're a special person. Just like the other great thinkers such as Daniel, Lain, Jordan Perterson, etc. We desperately need you at this present time where this is so much confusion, despair, and chaos. Thank you so much for all that you do.👍
“Essential Statements of Fact for an Integral Approach to Preserving Vajrayana Lineage Wisdom” dragpa December 20, 2023 1. Post-postmodern worldviews are the first example of awareness that naturally tries to systematically overcome the respective limitations of extreme premodern, modern, and postmodern approaches, while simultaneously including and integrating the healthy aspects of those approaches. 2. Current metacrises (“polycrises” or “wicked problems”) can only be sufficiently seen and responded to by post-postmodern ("Integral") worldviews (and their co-creative worldshaping). 3. Responding to complex problems by pre-Integral approaches will necessarily leave out significant aspects of reality that cannot be left out without severe consequences. 4. Sutra and Tantra Mahayana Buddhism are fundamentally structured according to post-postmodern worldviewing (and their co-creative worldshaping). 5. Sutra and Tantra Mahayana are based on a healthy post-postmodern approach, that once it becomes mature enough to actively wish to meet other people and situations on their terms, it can also be called the “way of the bodhisattva,” or the Middle Way view that refuses to lock into a fixed approach to experience. 6. Studying and practicing Sutra and Tantra Mahayana Buddhism through an extreme post-postmodern approach will significantly break wisdom lineage because it does not yet live a Middle Way view, it just talks about it. 7. Living a Middle Way view is the basis for Tantra Mahayana. 8. The significant difference between Sutra Mahayana and Tantra Mahayana is “pure relative truth,” or “pure body” (deity) and “pure speech” (mantra). Tantra Mahayana necessarily includes these as essential to its view, and thus the world it inhabits, as well as the skillful means that are available to creatively participate in post-postmodern worldspaces and worldmaking. 9. An extreme (or early) post-postmodern approach will not include pure relative truth, and therefore it will omit natural features of what comes AFTER healthy post-postmodern, which in Buddhism is known as “Tantra Mahayana” and Dzogchen. 10. Practicing Tantra Mahayana and Dzogchen without pure relative truth severely breaks wisdom lineage, which must be prevented at all costs. 11. For example, Zen is not the same as Dzogchen. Dzogchen is the Great Completion which “perfectly includes everything,” including the pure relative truth views and skillful means that are thoroughly explained and practiced in Buddhist vehicles (yanas) 4 through 9, and not only vehicles 1 through 3. More technically . . . 12. Buddha Shakyamuni’s Theravada, Sutra, Tantra, and Dzogchen teachings are filled with pure relative truth teachings like the six realms, pure lands, terma, mantra, multi-dimensionality, and other planetary cultures, societies, and non-human species. Omitting these is not an improvement to Buddhism, but an extreme, colonial, pre-Integral approach that will destroy the wisdom lineage of Vajrayana Buddhism and Dzogchen that happens AFTER we enter the way of the bodhisattva (and not BEFORE it during premodern approaches). Mistaking post-Integral tantric unfolding with pre-Integral stages is a post-pre fallacy, which Wilber classically made famous, although he seems to fail to follow it in this particular case of mistaking post-Integral pure relative truth as unhealthy premodern projection (or just selfish pre-Integral). 13. After the mature Integral approach begins to create a much healthier sense of non-fixated self by integrating the very valuable, healthier aspects of premodern, modern, and postmodern approaches (which is the beginning function of maturing Integral Turquoise integration), we then have a firm foundation to begin courageously serving all beings’ awakening using whatever relative means are skillful in a given context. This is the lived Middle Way bodhisattva approach, which is the necessary ground for Vajrayana and Dzogchen. In addition to this Turquoise-based ground of healthy-premodern-modern-postmodern-and-postpostmodern-self-sense (which weaves together healthy pre-Integral functionality), Tantra Mahayana then begins introducing emergent layered ecologies (worlds) of pure relative truth, which can be thought of (in terms of Spiral Dynamics) as Integral-purple, Integral-red, Integral-blue/amber, Integral-orange, Integral-green, and Integral+, once the respective emergent layers of pure relative truth arise and stabilize from a Turquoise-self-sense. At that point, entire worlds of exploration that were previously unknowable to one's less integrated self-sense emerge. Therefore Tantric Buddhism is not a re-weaving of pre-Integral layers, but it is an opening into emergent worlds that become available (to oneself) once one's pre-Integral layers are sufficiently inter-woven. In other words, pure relative truth isn't dipping back into previously unseen pre-Integral elements, but is the view and activity that arises once the foundation of a thoroughly-enough-integrated Integral self is rooted. That's why Tantra Mahayana and Dzogchen are post-Integral, not pre-Integral. 13. The Buddha taught this over 2,600 years ago, which is obvious according to the unfolding, internested ecologies of the Nine Yana system of study and practice. Tantric yanas 4 through 9 come AFTER they incorporate a stable yanas-1-to-3-ground, without remaining strictly within that ground. Sutric Yanas 1-3 are the basis for the emergent unfolding of Tantric yanas, not the full limit of their world scope. More technically: 14. The Integral approach is a 5th person perspective: A. 1st person = me (red premodern) B. 2nd person = us (amber/blue traditional) C. 3rd person = systems (the shared system between us) (orange modern) D. 4th person = reflecting on our shared system (green postmodern) E. 5th person = systems of systems (integrating at least 2 shared-systems approaches, like economics and psychology, or spirituality and religion) (teal/yellow post-postmodern) 15. It’s likely that soon we will globally require “6th person perspectives” once we begin interacting with beings whose communities operate systematically, which will therefore require us to learn “systems of systems of systems.” We will have to reflect on how “integrated systems” even further integrate with other integrated systems. This is already becoming evident by interacting with AI-generated content that operates outside the boundaries of most human-based IQ cognition. 16. Higher order complexities can be understood by even higher order simplicities, or “simplicity-within-complexity.” While the higher order simplicities might seem simpler-as if they're dumber-they are actually integrating the essential points of more foundational approaches into deeper patterns of view, meditation, conduct, and fruition. Therefore they only appear simpler, when in fact they actually include more complexity, more elegantly. This is repeatedly demonstrated in the Nine Yana system of Vajrayana Buddhism (e.g. Dzogchen pith instructions, sadhana practice, etc.), and in books like “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking and Einstein’s e=mc2, for quick examples. 17. Using these higher order simplicities is a more direct, comprehensive, elegant, inclusive, and natural way to respond to complex challenges without having to know all of the mechanisms that produce those challenges or adequate responses. This is the value of pith instructions: jam packing more systematic bang for your buck with less work. But this requires an integrated-enough approach to recognize and use these higher order simplicities. This is typically referred to as "higher capability practitioners" in Vajrayana, which isn't elistist, just practical. Only so many people actually know the math behind e=mc2 to really resonate with its importance in a systematic way, even though the rest of us can still benefit from a basic appreciation of it. 18. Post-postmodern approaches that include pure relative truth, like Vajrayana, are living ecologies of study and practice that have demonstrated their deeply adaptive, creative, and powerful usefulness to reliably engage complex dynamical systems without becoming fragile, reactive, or losing their internal integrity. They have proven this for thousands of years. In Vajrayana, this is called “wisdom lineage.” 19. “Preserving wisdom lineage in the 21st century” is the most urgent short-medium-long term challenge for sustaining thriving ecologies of higher-order life, which is why learning to take an Integral, post-postmodern approach to Vajrayana is not only a natural thing to do, but one of the most important things to do as well. "An Integral View of Tibetan Buddhism: Preserving Lineage Wisdom in the 21st Century" www.amazon.com/Integral-View-Tibetan-Buddhism-Preserving/dp/B0CMYVCLT8/ref=monarch_sidesheet
This is amazing, three of my favorite thinkers in dialog (trialog?) together! I was so excited to see this when it first came out that I stood there watching in fascination for the first hour and realized I had barely moved! I got a lot from the first viewing but I need to study it now. One fun thing I noticed was that Daniel seemed to embody a corpus callosum wonderfully at times. Thank you all!
Dia or Di in Ancient Greek means ‘Through’ so Dialogue would be through logos. Diet would be through the years. It is a small distinction but an important one. Diaspora through seeding and so on. I’m grateful for the conversations through the years John it has been an intellectual diet.
I am so glad to hear you todaY; it was a blessing and I would like to be Bart of this new philosophy . The world needs this new energy. Gesly Leveque from Houston Texas.
A very interesting conversation. Thanks to all involved and those behind the scenes that make these possible. I would normally leave it there but this is the second time I've heard Iain describe his book/theory with John. I must admit that I don't find his theory, as he's described it, anymore plausible than the older theories and I am curious whether John accepts the hemispheric distinction proposed or just the different styles of thinking?
Love this! Need part 2 please! Also couldn’t help but think of Jordan Peterson’s lectures on the Tower of Babel story, and the confounding of language; to spread love of wisdom to Furthest extend need to find convergence and create common language for common people. I would add that to part of your solution in my humble opinion.
The idea that we, as a species, need to craft new "sacred/secular" reorientations to our place within the cosmos is great. Could you guys next explore what volitional practices might reflect this? For example, how about "conscious parenting" as a tenet of our shared recognition of our place within the cosmos? How can we weave ourselves into the biosphere/noosphere while humbly ensuring we don't exceed our sustainable niche?
There's a percentage of us who are born without the ability to empathize. They're single minded and often view life as a game. They seek power and are often doctors and lawyers but more often police officers and politicians. They enjoy being boss whereas most of us do not. It's my theory that this kind has always ruled over us.
A rousing cry for wisdom from Iain at around 2hr 30, I link it to what Daniel said about the percentage of wild vs domesticated mammals, and the loss of intelligence in the world from treating plants and animals as factory workers producing widgets.
Thank you for the conversation. The successive mention of "new religion" felt like a lack of respect, knowledge and faith in the mysteries of God but it will be revealed in time. It appears to me that a talk between Daniel, Jonathan Pageau or Jordan Peterson and yourself would be perhaps frictional but fruitful. After all, friction creates sparks! Thank you again for the bolstering of nobility and God bless!
My humble salutations to you Mr. Vervaeke. I send my apologies to you regarding my phrasing about the lack of knowledge regarding God's plan, I did not mean to put myself above you in any way. That said, you spoke of a broken artifact being repaired with gold and how it resulted in enhanced beauty; following this symbolism, don't you think that christianity is merely broken and that our role is rather to repair it with gold? Also, I will add that in biblical cosmology, gold is the brightest and rarest of metals, compared to clay let's say, and is linked to the head, the spiritual authority (think about Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue). So instead of recycling the broken cup and mix it with other parts of other cups, or seeking another one, why not transmute gold ourselves and repair it? Let us get closer to God! With love, David-Alexandre.
Near the end Ian or Daniel suggest that the left hemisphere needs to revere the right. But since the left does not seem to "revere" very well it makes sense that it simply sees the right as a very useful tool. This is simple enough with Vervaeke's example of imagining your future self so that you can change your behavior. We also use our "gut" feelings quite often and the highest levels of chess are played using the right hemisphere. There are many other examples in mathematics and physics as well but once this truth is brought into the relevance realization of the individual and collective left brain a more appropriate relationship will be established and the right hemisphere will gain much greater "grounded" status in our collective psyches. It may even become the dominant thing in our zeitgeist.
Interesting conversation, if one has enough time to follow it. I like the way the different approaches complement each other. BTW, whoever does the captions needs to know the difference between immanent and eminent. 😉 Better than no captions at all, but would be good to improve that feature.
Thank you for discussing the crises (meta as well as poly). Highly stimulating which started a flow of thoughts that i pen down below: could we relate the left and right hemisphere functions to particle vs wave dichotomy? We crystallise the flow into a seemingly solid world (the body-mind self and everything else) in order to prolong our existence as a body-mind obtaining energy for the body/particle to operate, shelter to protect and, if possible, food for the mind/flow. What are your thoughts on this?
I should wait until i'm finished listening, but i dont want to lose the thought.... it is important to discuss if there is any difference between imagining to tie to the future self or if imagining is itself just virtual practice with outcomes that are naturally aligned with the future self (is intention to improve the future self relevant? Or just the practice?)
This will be my second time watching this trialogue. It's great to see you three get together. I will soon be hosting Rich Blundell to have a conversation to examine possible synergy between his Oika thesis and the DiaLogos, (TriaLogos?) that was opened and curated here.
I am looking forward to our conversation because there are several times in the second half of this conversation where Daniel asks some version of the question; “So what are we to DO about these eloquently articulated problems?” I think my proposal with Oika offers another genuine advancement toward answering that question.
Instead of combining the left and right hemispheres, he wants one of them to become master over the other. He talks about "the whole" and proceeds to contradict himself. A well-balanced person is master over both hemispheres of the brain.
I agree but I think this is a reverse pendulum effect of what society needs more of at the same time. Both hemispheres being used equally is ambidextrous which is enlightenment: matriarchy and patriarchy at the same time, polytheism and monotheism at the same time. The right hemisphere is the feminine side and the left hemisphere is the masculine side. we need both at the same time for an enlightened society but right now we need more Matriarchy because of the current imbalance.
@@michaelricketson1365 The speaker was generalising by saying the intuitive hemisphere is always superior to the logical one. This is nonsense. Rational human beings will be insane to try using feelings when scientific data needs to be considered. However, the scientist is not superior to the artist, and neither does the artist stand over the scientist. They are both superior depending on the situation at hand. Each time we face eternity, it gives us infinite possibilities, and both hemispheres had better be working at peak condition, or death knocks at one’s door. We should learn to question the sayings of old professors, no matter how wise they seem to sound.
@@The3rdTower I've read a great deal of McGilChrist's work and I would never dismiss his views as generalizations. Nor would I describe the left brain hemisphere as logical, except in isolated circumstances.
Really interesting talk and great to have this exploration of meaning individual and collective didactically investigated to be accessed on the net. There is one position I want to present as I very much hear and resonate with much of what is said. I seemed to have been born with a hollow of not seeing meaning or connectedness in the first 7 years of my life. Not connected to my school my community I was happy being in my own world and nursery school and school only seemed to put with children who I didn’t understand and at the same time school taught me that I didn’t know stuff. I couldn’t do school stuff and school taught me to feel ashamed of not knowing stuff. Consequently I didn’t like being there. I just liked being in my own space whether that was sitting under the kitchen table imagining stories or painting or playing with toys being in my space in my head always seemed more fun than being in the structured world. It was not until I got a dream about existing before I was born and the dream gave me my mission message that I began to settle in onto planet earth and each year after 7yrs of age I felt ok about the word home because I kept feeling like I was not home. So disconnectedness was very much part of my early life experience and has always had an element in how I do see the world which has always more easily being big picture thinking seeing patterns in behaviour and making sense of it or trying to. Potentially because of this way of seeing I have always gravitated to spiritual input readers bf zen from 11yrs and exploring meditation. Always believed in God from seemly birth as this seemed like best entity to talk to when not feeling connected to the world. My family were not strong on belief or spiritual belief but did follow tradition of living in a catholic community. However, despite being a believer I remember thinking very judgementally like something out of the Old Testament that I was surrounded by pretenders and I felt the monks of our parish were some of the worst pretenders of the community and I disliked them a lot. But I was only 5 years old with these silent but fierce judgements and of course never knew if their might be any other 5 year old thinking the same thing as of course criticism of an adult would not be encouraged particularly a so called holy man. However, spiritual connection to what I know as spiritual even if it’s not around me has grown and grown inside me. Not be being with others or a congregation. For this reason I think we need to ask about the role of the hermit mind in the 21st Century because I think I was born with a hermit brain which has actually served to connect me by helping me gain wisdom from going inward. Somehow I think the Universe steps in to be the one that brings you the information you might need as a stepping stone to the next piece and next piece. There is a deep connectedness to the Universe to cosmic mind from a hermit brain. I wonder if the way the Universe is responding to the phenomena’s of fragmentation and forces of globalisation is in some type of hermetic way to plant or germ the hermit mind then get to the cosmic oneness. From a earth based perspective it might seem that flow is disruptive to the point of rupture but it seems that the best expert of chaos or quantum multiples is the Universe that can string and thread youness together from dimensions that we don’t even know about. I keep thinking about the bible quote that says God knows how many hairs are in your head at any one time. This knowing of your youness is beyond anything you could fathom within a biological expression of one chronology. But knowing does not need to be a location but an expression. I think if we as a specie could feel safe to not know the world in its finite form then we could discovery a new type of knowledge based in experiential expressions. Meaning the maths is there the formulas exist but to feel what a formula is to know it as energy in the body mind and heart is another type of physicality that is not outwardly seen in our structures and organisations. But I think the back ground programme of hermit mind is constantly turning constantly humming. The future is not newness it’s just tuning.
The reality is that these fine gentlemen are discussing at the doorway as to what is required to open the gates to the possibilities of a new awareness. This new awareness gives the freedom to know ie. the gnosis of the whole as it explicates from the ground of being. Once realized then everything changes as the new awareness is a shift out of left brain ego centricity to one of a mind body conscious awareness centred in union with the divine ground. Once this understanding is brought forth, hopefully these gentlemen would have their ah ah yes that’s what it is all about moment.
DS sounds intelligent and reasonable. But when I do a web search, I can't find much information that seems objective. If anyone has a link to something like a disinterested journalistic exploration of his activities and views, I would appreciate it.
Things are going to get really bad. There is no way to avoid it. These things go in cycles. Best option is to transcend this so-called reality and wake up!
Need help: I'm sure I heard a game-theoretic term in this discussion but cant find it. The Sabbath, the stock market closing...these are restraints we impose for good (wise) reasons. What is that term? Please help!
It is not just the brain. It is the Precession of the Equinoxes in which human intelligence evolves and changes. Material science does not see humans as sharing in consciousness and mind, humans being not consciousness or mind but sharing in it. Our consciousness and intelligence is on an upward arc from a Dark Age. After electricity and electromagnetism we will understand and use magnetism. We are at the beginning of the upward arc in our current age so we are fortunate.
John Vervakue, sir, saluting you for your accurate diagnosis of the meaning crisis. You are also in the territory of the solution to the same, missing the target because, well, because you are unaware of deeper realities which are not merely psychological but ontological. Your understanding of mystical states is incomplete, not for any fault of yours but because it is not a matter of greater practise or the right practice. It is out of man's volitional control to access those states; its for the chosen ones who have the approporiate evolutionary fitness for those post-human states. From a tantra practitioner in the Sri Vidya tradition of Hinduism. Tantra is integral to some Buddhist paths as well.
@John Vervaeke - What place does the dominance behaviour system in the brain, play on this. Does it exist? Is that left brained thinking and so, social strategies are needed to compensate/balance out?
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This is like straight out of The School of Athens. It’s the most enlightening and beautiful conversation of our time. I loooove it.
My 3 recent favorites in one room. Here for it!
Mr. Vervaeke, it was an absolute privilege to listen into this interview, and a continuation of my own life’s adventure. To this day, I have yet to return to the video that introduced me to you: Jordan Peterson’s first podcast with you, because since putting that aside to “catch up” with your work, you have only - what can be described as - coloured with all spectrums of every known colour into what is the mosaic of my life. Your meaning crisis series is my go-to Logos gym, and constant arena to ponder and wander to find a launch pad of curiosity. I don’t normally share things publicly, but I work as an Electrician, Landscaper, First Aid attendant, Actor in film and theatre, and musician, and I intend this year to embark toward a degree in Medicine. Epictetus’ words have ingrained within me the moment I heard them, “What we need now are students to apply their learning and bare witness to their learning in their actions”, and you, Sir, your brilliant structural functional organization (haha) and all that you do… I mean this wholeheartedly that my soul would be less without the blessing of you being a part of it the way that you have. Thank you.
I like how Mr. Vervaeke is genuinely enthusiastic during the conversation. Great conversation and very intense too which made it better. Absolutely loved it.
Now well past 100k subscribers John! I have let you know this before, but I want to express my deep gratitude to you once again. You work has had a profound impact on me and many others over the last few years. God bless.
The name of the game is SYNTHESIZING!. From a HUGE fan of Vervake AND McGilChrist (AND JAYNES), Daniel Schmactenburger has demonstrated, yet again, his ability to humble himself for the purpose of synthesizing the ideas of others. Brilliant!
Yeah. They all seem to have found the best people to quote. A skill that is actually creative and useful for the greater mind.
@@tinman0Zwho are these people? They pay for their videos to be on autoplay. Are they academics?
Ive watched it on McGilchrists channel, ive watched it on Schmachtenburgers channel, so now im watching it on Johns channel, you were on fire in this one John ❤
Daniel changed my way of thinking.
I commend the effort to tackle/or reconceptualize what could be the biggest challenge of our known human existence, to both understand and be able to pivot the driving forces that can both produce harmony and/or collective destruction. It is a significant task to create energy and opportunity for an individual to move into a capacity for meaning-making and build a relational connection to the internal and external, but to conceptualize a pathway that can help our collective humanity move in that direction, I deeply commend the effort I hear in this discussion. I don't have the answers, but I can say I hope to be a part of the network of those tilting our humanity into a direction of sacred connection and meaning-making. In a lot of indigenous cultures, there's a sense of responsibility and connection to the past and future generations, and I believe that spiritual obligation to past and future can play a part in how we re-define our human/spiritual relation to our environment and think of ourselves as stewards for something much larger than ourselves. Blessings and gratitude to this community.
I have once again seen this one before on a different channel.
Thank you all again for this discussion.
Many blessings to all who enjoy Dr. Iain McGilchrist's books and lectures, and all who participate in this world today.
Bravo 👏
I think it is fairly obvious that we human beings are the history of mankind.
Is it in the totality of human psychological knowledge?
That is fairly obvious.
The story of mankind is war, tears, bloodshed, laughter, agony, grief, loneliness, sorrow, agony, and grief.
all mankind suffers, has shed tears, laughter, imitation, vulgarity, superficiality. I am all that. Otherwise, I would not elect poltiticans as they are. Right?
So now I am I am all the Gods, and the God's thought has invented.
From the beginning to the end of a glance for mankind to look at?
One has been to all the lakes, mountains, the and all the likes of Switzerland , and one doesn't look at the entire map.
This is the whole map of oneself that requires a quietness of the brain and no direction. One has the whole tone of that history.
Some have experienced seeing lights, a feeling of one's, the awakening of Kundalini, inward clarity. These moments last sometimes for moments or house a lot of silly people we are, some of us, including myself.
If I use my energy my energy in various forms arrogance, aggression selfish actions, competition, soaked in sorrow, and continuously about it. one is waisting energy, it wears itself out. That the very human energy which is not the energy apprehends to the total energy of the energy of the universe.
What is that without a shadow of conflict?
It becomes necessary to question rightly, and the whole art of questioning, as all of you are doing.
There are three arts of listening.
1. The art of listening
2. The art of seeing
3. the art of learning
The art of listening is to listen without interpretation.
To listen without translating what one says about their own comfort desires .
To listen not not only with the ear, but to listen to the word and what lies beyond the world.
And to the depth that one by the depth of meaning.
The art of to seeing is to observe, without the word, without the name, without the form. Which means to observe without any direction, without any motive, to observe so one captures the whole movement of oneself.
The movement of the trees, of the rivers, of the mountains, the butterfly is to see.
And the art of learning:
As we have learned the art, i now accumulated knowledge. That is the art of knowledge. That is the art of learning.
One may not know mathematics. but one studies, one has a professor who will teach me and gradually one mathematics, so one can apply to be an engineer, or a technician, to the whole technological world. Right?
Love has no relationship with thought, and thought is not related to love. If we associate thought with love with thought as we do, then that brings conflict.
And the perception of clarity comes with the brain is free from all anchorage, from all sense of attachment, to belief, persons and so on that frees the brain from conditioning so we can learn afresh.
1. I am nobody, but what is important is what one is.
If one sees that, it gives tremendous energy, vitality, because it is no small entity.
One is part of the whole community. There is beauty and love there, but most of us won't see because we are concerned with ourselves.
and to step out of that circle seems impossible because we are programed like the computers. Since the tragedy of it. The machine we have created, cannot learn much faster. Infinitely more than I can, that the brain can and the brain which has invented that has become the ultra- intelligent machine.
Why is there so much violence in the world? Because One has no space. That's why the biggest cities like NYC, Paris, London, they breed violence, we are to much close to one another.
They have placed many rats in small places becoming totally disoriented, they eat their own children, kill one another.
Time, measure, space.
What is measure, psychological time. not chronological time?
The whole technolical world is based on measurement and there would be no technology and this measurement has been handed down to the Western World through the Greek scholars, one can observe this, they were the originators of mathematics.
So the Western World has inherited measurement comparing one painter against the other, one poet against the other, one sculptured against the other- measurement.
"I am not as good."
More power, more money, more fun, this is part of measurement.
When one beings to uncover what love is not, there is a stillness within the space of thought.
Religious divisions and wars for centuries. Why? Cultures traveling with languages beginning with the Gilgamesh Epic moving forward.
We thank all of these insights from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle.
Socrates wrote nothing down but he taught Plato, Plato taught Aristole, Aristotle taught Alexander the Great.
So thought is a movement of time and may we ask is there a stop to time. Or is man condemned to the moment which is hell.
In Sanscript also 'ma' is to measure. Meditation is measurement, and we are conditioned to measurement, "I am, I shall be."
It is not what one does to end time ,what is the nature to end measurement ? The brain seeing the truth of it sets the brain free will bring freedom to the brain, because when one has space and it is the only the apprehension or the perception, which is not personal of that which is everlasting and everlasting.
What is sacred? Human compassion and empathy.
"I am the world and the world is me."
"There are many nights as days, and the one is just as the long as the other in a years course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness and the word "happy" would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness. It is far better to take things as they come along with patience and equanimity. "
C.J. Jung
A general definition of civilization: a civilized society is exhibiting the fine qualities of beauty, adventure, art peace.
Alfred North Whitehead
All religions have truths, may there be no divisions, which produces more hate for one another.
Even there are atheists that have a moral compass.
An open-hearted mind and awarness consumes the lights of humanity.
Spinoza was one among many of great philosophers.
Krishnamurti and Alan Watts.
Music ,art, and creativity are the glues that hold our world together.
"The Dawn of Everything," David Grayber and Steve , archeologists.
A sense of "awe" is the sacredness of seeing .
A sense of joy. Where there is fear, ther cannot be joy.
We are all only human.
Embrace each moment with courage and immediately see with what is happening inside your heart strings that beat.
Feel your pulse and breathe.
🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵
Wow, thank you all so much.
i'm on my third watch of this video ever since i found it a couple days ago. This stuff is legit transcendental
Yes Please continue this conversation!
What a great conversation, John! Thank you so much!
It was such a joy to hear your ideas linking up and not only finding an affinity but actually moving forward in this conversation. This was such a wonderful session. Thank you all for sharing this 🙏
Nice carving above the fireplace. Thanks for the conversation. Happy holidays!
4 years of following remarkable thinkers & great efforts...
Thank you for providing chapters on the timeline. Outstanding discussion. Looking forward to more.
This was the video that opened me up to John’s magic, and my subsequent pilgrimage of meaning.
Definitely appreciated this conversation. Would love to see more connection and discussion with wisdom-holders from animist traditions, or from folks doing things less traditionally in a meta-modern way, who can enrich this space and lead folks to a more interconnected/enchanted worldview and life-way. Daniel's comments about "indigenous scholar friends" pointing to the extinction of mega-fauna informing wisdom traditions made me want to know SO MUCH MORE.
Would love to see a continuation of this to flesh out the (possible) answers to questions that were raised in this talk.
I've been following your Awakening series for months now (episode 33 here we go!) but had to take a break though to listen to this! It's a great conversation and trickles down significantly to where I am in my own life and spiritual journey. Thanks for helping us all make sense of this crazy thing called life!
So long! I have discovered your channel several years ago and I was deeply impressed and intrigued. I am glad to see your excellent work continued! ❤
What an INCREDIBLE conversation!!!
I fell asleep listening to something else, this conversation seeped into my sleep and I woke up and was listening even more !!! Amazing! ❤
I lost a night's sleep listening to this last week. Don't tempt me!!!
Thanks for sharing this fantastic discussion. Would love a followup!!
I have watched this video from other channel and it was great at always^^ Have good days and thank you for giving great talk experiences!
Omg❤❤❤that's my Christmas gift
Thank you for this John!
Yes, this video, the discussion is worth the time and effort you put into it, at the very least! It is the continuation, and perhaps the most succinct yet, of a cultural discussion I have been following in recent years about how much we have lost with over-rationalization and the dismissed significance of imagination and intuition. As an artist now in my sixth decade, I had explored contemporary theory in my BFA thesis, finding a devastating nihilism at the base of it. Since then, I have discovered and now teach an entirely different kind of art, some call the Atelier Movement. We might be considered the new Avant Guard, because the lessons we teach are almost non-existent in accredited colleges and universities. What is most important to me about this movement is that we elevate Beauty, Tradition, and Artistic Mastery. Even those who practice this art may not realize the significance of what they are doing by studying Nature and great works of art from the Classical and Renaissance Periods. To me, it is the acknowledgment of inherent meaning in reality, the beauty of life, and the dignity of all humans. From your discussion here, I can articulate just what my school is striving for! Thank you, all three. Holly White-Gehrt, Texas Hill Country Atelier.
John you're a special person. Just like the other great thinkers such as Daniel, Lain, Jordan Perterson, etc. We desperately need you at this present time where this is so much confusion, despair, and chaos. Thank you so much for all that you do.👍
Phenomenal! Thank you all.
“Essential Statements of Fact for an Integral Approach to Preserving Vajrayana Lineage Wisdom”
dragpa
December 20, 2023
1. Post-postmodern worldviews are the first example of awareness that naturally tries to systematically overcome the respective limitations of extreme premodern, modern, and postmodern approaches, while simultaneously including and integrating the healthy aspects of those approaches.
2. Current metacrises (“polycrises” or “wicked problems”) can only be sufficiently seen and responded to by post-postmodern ("Integral") worldviews (and their co-creative worldshaping).
3. Responding to complex problems by pre-Integral approaches will necessarily leave out significant aspects of reality that cannot be left out without severe consequences.
4. Sutra and Tantra Mahayana Buddhism are fundamentally structured according to post-postmodern worldviewing (and their co-creative worldshaping).
5. Sutra and Tantra Mahayana are based on a healthy post-postmodern approach, that once it becomes mature enough to actively wish to meet other people and situations on their terms, it can also be called the “way of the bodhisattva,” or the Middle Way view that refuses to lock into a fixed approach to experience.
6. Studying and practicing Sutra and Tantra Mahayana Buddhism through an extreme post-postmodern approach will significantly break wisdom lineage because it does not yet live a Middle Way view, it just talks about it.
7. Living a Middle Way view is the basis for Tantra Mahayana.
8. The significant difference between Sutra Mahayana and Tantra Mahayana is “pure relative truth,” or “pure body” (deity) and “pure speech” (mantra). Tantra Mahayana necessarily includes these as essential to its view, and thus the world it inhabits, as well as the skillful means that are available to creatively participate in post-postmodern worldspaces and worldmaking.
9. An extreme (or early) post-postmodern approach will not include pure relative truth, and therefore it will omit natural features of what comes AFTER healthy post-postmodern, which in Buddhism is known as “Tantra Mahayana” and Dzogchen.
10. Practicing Tantra Mahayana and Dzogchen without pure relative truth severely breaks wisdom lineage, which must be prevented at all costs.
11. For example, Zen is not the same as Dzogchen. Dzogchen is the Great Completion which “perfectly includes everything,” including the pure relative truth views and skillful means that are thoroughly explained and practiced in Buddhist vehicles (yanas) 4 through 9, and not only vehicles 1 through 3.
More technically . . .
12. Buddha Shakyamuni’s Theravada, Sutra, Tantra, and Dzogchen teachings are filled with pure relative truth teachings like the six realms, pure lands, terma, mantra, multi-dimensionality, and other planetary cultures, societies, and non-human species. Omitting these is not an improvement to Buddhism, but an extreme, colonial, pre-Integral approach that will destroy the wisdom lineage of Vajrayana Buddhism and Dzogchen that happens AFTER we enter the way of the bodhisattva (and not BEFORE it during premodern approaches). Mistaking post-Integral tantric unfolding with pre-Integral stages is a post-pre fallacy, which Wilber classically made famous, although he seems to fail to follow it in this particular case of mistaking post-Integral pure relative truth as unhealthy premodern projection (or just selfish pre-Integral).
13. After the mature Integral approach begins to create a much healthier sense of non-fixated self by integrating the very valuable, healthier aspects of premodern, modern, and postmodern approaches (which is the beginning function of maturing Integral Turquoise integration), we then have a firm foundation to begin courageously serving all beings’ awakening using whatever relative means are skillful in a given context. This is the lived Middle Way bodhisattva approach, which is the necessary ground for Vajrayana and Dzogchen.
In addition to this Turquoise-based ground of healthy-premodern-modern-postmodern-and-postpostmodern-self-sense (which weaves together healthy pre-Integral functionality), Tantra Mahayana then begins introducing emergent layered ecologies (worlds) of pure relative truth, which can be thought of (in terms of Spiral Dynamics) as Integral-purple, Integral-red, Integral-blue/amber, Integral-orange, Integral-green, and Integral+, once the respective emergent layers of pure relative truth arise and stabilize from a Turquoise-self-sense. At that point, entire worlds of exploration that were previously unknowable to one's less integrated self-sense emerge.
Therefore Tantric Buddhism is not a re-weaving of pre-Integral layers, but it is an opening into emergent worlds that become available (to oneself) once one's pre-Integral layers are sufficiently inter-woven. In other words, pure relative truth isn't dipping back into previously unseen pre-Integral elements, but is the view and activity that arises once the foundation of a thoroughly-enough-integrated Integral self is rooted. That's why Tantra Mahayana and Dzogchen are post-Integral, not pre-Integral.
13. The Buddha taught this over 2,600 years ago, which is obvious according to the unfolding, internested ecologies of the Nine Yana system of study and practice. Tantric yanas 4 through 9 come AFTER they incorporate a stable yanas-1-to-3-ground, without remaining strictly within that ground. Sutric Yanas 1-3 are the basis for the emergent unfolding of Tantric yanas, not the full limit of their world scope.
More technically:
14. The Integral approach is a 5th person perspective:
A. 1st person = me (red premodern)
B. 2nd person = us (amber/blue traditional)
C. 3rd person = systems (the shared system between us) (orange modern)
D. 4th person = reflecting on our shared system (green postmodern)
E. 5th person = systems of systems (integrating at least 2 shared-systems approaches, like economics and psychology, or spirituality and religion) (teal/yellow post-postmodern)
15. It’s likely that soon we will globally require “6th person perspectives” once we begin interacting with beings whose communities operate systematically, which will therefore require us to learn “systems of systems of systems.” We will have to reflect on how “integrated systems” even further integrate with other integrated systems. This is already becoming evident by interacting with AI-generated content that operates outside the boundaries of most human-based IQ cognition.
16. Higher order complexities can be understood by even higher order simplicities, or “simplicity-within-complexity.” While the higher order simplicities might seem simpler-as if they're dumber-they are actually integrating the essential points of more foundational approaches into deeper patterns of view, meditation, conduct, and fruition. Therefore they only appear simpler, when in fact they actually include more complexity, more elegantly. This is repeatedly demonstrated in the Nine Yana system of Vajrayana Buddhism (e.g. Dzogchen pith instructions, sadhana practice, etc.), and in books like “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking and Einstein’s e=mc2, for quick examples.
17. Using these higher order simplicities is a more direct, comprehensive, elegant, inclusive, and natural way to respond to complex challenges without having to know all of the mechanisms that produce those challenges or adequate responses. This is the value of pith instructions: jam packing more systematic bang for your buck with less work. But this requires an integrated-enough approach to recognize and use these higher order simplicities. This is typically referred to as "higher capability practitioners" in Vajrayana, which isn't elistist, just practical. Only so many people actually know the math behind e=mc2 to really resonate with its importance in a systematic way, even though the rest of us can still benefit from a basic appreciation of it.
18. Post-postmodern approaches that include pure relative truth, like Vajrayana, are living ecologies of study and practice that have demonstrated their deeply adaptive, creative, and powerful usefulness to reliably engage complex dynamical systems without becoming fragile, reactive, or losing their internal integrity. They have proven this for thousands of years. In Vajrayana, this is called “wisdom lineage.”
19. “Preserving wisdom lineage in the 21st century” is the most urgent short-medium-long term challenge for sustaining thriving ecologies of higher-order life, which is why learning to take an Integral, post-postmodern approach to Vajrayana is not only a natural thing to do, but one of the most important things to do as well.
"An Integral View of Tibetan Buddhism: Preserving Lineage Wisdom in the 21st Century"
www.amazon.com/Integral-View-Tibetan-Buddhism-Preserving/dp/B0CMYVCLT8/ref=monarch_sidesheet
good comment 🙂
Thanks to all 3 of you for sharing your wisdom :)
Thank you for coming together to have this important discussion! THANK YOU 🙌🙏🫶
This is amazing, three of my favorite thinkers in dialog (trialog?) together! I was so excited to see this when it first came out that I stood there watching in fascination for the first hour and realized I had barely moved! I got a lot from the first viewing but I need to study it now. One fun thing I noticed was that Daniel seemed to embody a corpus callosum wonderfully at times. Thank you all!
Thanks Ben. I hope you are well.
@johnvervaeke I am, thank you John. Happy holidays!🙏
@@ben-sanford You too my friend.
Dia or Di in Ancient Greek means ‘Through’ so Dialogue would be through logos. Diet would be through the years. It is a small distinction but an important one. Diaspora through seeding and so on. I’m grateful for the conversations through the years John it has been an intellectual diet.
Brilliant interaction!
Thank you for this gift of wisdom
Really appreciate the video. Thank you !
What gives me hope - regenerative agriculture. What concerns me - the popularity of privacy screens on the sides of people's porches.
I am so glad to hear you todaY; it was a blessing and I would like to be Bart of this new philosophy . The world needs this new energy. Gesly Leveque from Houston Texas.
A heartfelt Thank You for this, my Christmas Day listening treat . Feeling new energies to navigate 2024.
This may be the most important discussion ever!!!!
Best Christmas present ever.
A very interesting conversation. Thanks to all involved and those behind the scenes that make these possible. I would normally leave it there but this is the second time I've heard Iain describe his book/theory with John. I must admit that I don't find his theory, as he's described it, anymore plausible than the older theories and I am curious whether John accepts the hemispheric distinction proposed or just the different styles of thinking?
Incredible talk.
Thanks for posting! Great to hear you speak on Neoplatonism.
Love this! Need part 2 please! Also couldn’t help but think of Jordan Peterson’s lectures on the Tower of Babel story, and the confounding of language; to spread love of wisdom to
Furthest extend need to find convergence and create common language for common people. I would add that to part of your solution in my humble opinion.
The idea that we, as a species, need to craft new "sacred/secular" reorientations to our place within the cosmos is great. Could you guys next explore what volitional practices might reflect this? For example, how about "conscious parenting" as a tenet of our shared recognition of our place within the cosmos? How can we weave ourselves into the biosphere/noosphere while humbly ensuring we don't exceed our sustainable niche?
Really nice venue
This is absolutely priceless ❤ absolutely amazing ❤ thank you for everything ❤❤❤
Such an incredible discussion
I watched the discussion on Daniel's channel. Lots to consider
There's a percentage of us who are born without the ability to empathize. They're single minded and often view life as a game. They seek power and are often doctors and lawyers but more often police officers and politicians. They enjoy being boss whereas most of us do not. It's my theory that this kind has always ruled over us.
Technology, touched on a lot here, while leading to many not-so-good human endeavors, is surely fantastic to allow us to sit in on this discussion.
Incredible, beautiful, important discussion. Thank you
This was a great talk.
This is a profound talk
A rousing cry for wisdom from Iain at around 2hr 30, I link it to what Daniel said about the percentage of wild vs domesticated mammals, and the loss of intelligence in the world from treating plants and animals as factory workers producing widgets.
Such an insightful meeting of minds.
Kind Regards.
Wow, the biggest brains from the remnants of the intellectual deep web get together again. I guess I can't miss this one.
I'm borderline pretentiously optimistic about the long-term future because of the reasoning that I've come to, which is not allowed by this site.
Hi - where can we find the study that says 80% of people in the UK say their lives are meaningless?
Agh!! My Friday has now been made 💪😎👏👌🙏🤟
A bunch of risks but no opportunities? I find this historically and contemporaneously unbelievable.
Avengers assemble!!!
Thank you for the conversation. The successive mention of "new religion" felt like a lack of respect, knowledge and faith in the mysteries of God but it will be revealed in time. It appears to me that a talk between Daniel, Jonathan Pageau or Jordan Peterson and yourself would be perhaps frictional but fruitful. After all, friction creates sparks! Thank you again for the bolstering of nobility and God bless!
My humble salutations to you Mr. Vervaeke. I send my apologies to you regarding my phrasing about the lack of knowledge regarding God's plan, I did not mean to put myself above you in any way. That said, you spoke of a broken artifact being repaired with gold and how it resulted in enhanced beauty; following this symbolism, don't you think that christianity is merely broken and that our role is rather to repair it with gold? Also, I will add that in biblical cosmology, gold is the brightest and rarest of metals, compared to clay let's say, and is linked to the head, the spiritual authority (think about Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue). So instead of recycling the broken cup and mix it with other parts of other cups, or seeking another one, why not transmute gold ourselves and repair it? Let us get closer to God! With love, David-Alexandre.
Near the end Ian or Daniel suggest that the left hemisphere needs to revere the right. But since the left does not seem to "revere" very well it makes sense that it simply sees the right as a very useful tool. This is simple enough with Vervaeke's example of imagining your future self so that you can change your behavior. We also use our "gut" feelings quite often and the highest levels of chess are played using the right hemisphere.
There are many other examples in mathematics and physics as well but once this truth is brought into the relevance realization of the individual and collective left brain a more appropriate relationship will be established and the right hemisphere will gain much greater "grounded" status in our collective psyches. It may even become the dominant thing in our zeitgeist.
Anthoposophy, Stiener, waldorf schools...addresses all of this deeply
Interesting conversation, if one has enough time to follow it. I like the way the different approaches complement each other. BTW, whoever does the captions needs to know the difference between immanent and eminent. 😉 Better than no captions at all, but would be good to improve that feature.
Thanks
Value is mother earth 🌎 spaceship we've to care for. What do we do here with know moral standards to love her truly from our hearts 💕
So RUclips just randomly puts this guy on when your previous video ends huh?
Thank you for discussing the crises (meta as well as poly). Highly stimulating which started a flow of thoughts that i pen down below: could we relate the left and right hemisphere functions to particle vs wave dichotomy? We crystallise the flow into a seemingly solid world (the body-mind self and everything else) in order to prolong our existence as a body-mind obtaining energy for the body/particle to operate, shelter to protect and, if possible, food for the mind/flow. What are your thoughts on this?
I should wait until i'm finished listening, but i dont want to lose the thought.... it is important to discuss if there is any difference between imagining to tie to the future self or if imagining is itself just virtual practice with outcomes that are naturally aligned with the future self (is intention to improve the future self relevant? Or just the practice?)
Some of the most dangerous people pretend to be weak and harmless
I love those four factors of meaning! I can add it on top of the other ten quarternary models. 😆
This will be my second time watching this trialogue. It's great to see you three get together. I will soon be hosting Rich Blundell to have a conversation to examine possible synergy between his Oika thesis and the DiaLogos, (TriaLogos?) that was opened and curated here.
I am looking forward to our conversation because there are several times in the second half of this conversation where Daniel asks some version of the question; “So what are we to DO about these eloquently articulated problems?” I think my proposal with Oika offers another genuine advancement toward answering that question.
you said computers don't (35:10)
but they brought me to you bruv.
amen❤
Love this, hehe
Instead of combining the left and right hemispheres, he wants one of them to become master over the other. He talks about "the whole" and proceeds to contradict himself. A well-balanced person is master over both hemispheres of the brain.
I agree but I think this is a reverse pendulum effect of what society needs more of at the same time. Both hemispheres being used equally is ambidextrous which is enlightenment: matriarchy and patriarchy at the same time, polytheism and monotheism at the same time. The right hemisphere is the feminine side and the left hemisphere is the masculine side. we need both at the same time for an enlightened society but right now we need more Matriarchy because of the current imbalance.
@@matriarchalprayerproject The world will always need both men and women. It depends on what you want to be.
@@The3rdTowerTo create a whole does not mean that the parts are equal.
@@michaelricketson1365 The speaker was generalising by saying the intuitive hemisphere is always superior to the logical one. This is nonsense. Rational human beings will be insane to try using feelings when scientific data needs to be considered. However, the scientist is not superior to the artist, and neither does the artist stand over the scientist. They are both superior depending on the situation at hand. Each time we face eternity, it gives us infinite possibilities, and both hemispheres had better be working at peak condition, or death knocks at one’s door. We should learn to question the sayings of old professors, no matter how wise they seem to sound.
@@The3rdTower I've read a great deal of McGilChrist's work and I would never dismiss his views as generalizations. Nor would I describe the left brain hemisphere as logical, except in isolated circumstances.
This conversation becomes much more focused on the central topic at 01:01:00
I feel like I've heard this twice elsewhere before
Really interesting talk and great to have this exploration of meaning individual and collective didactically investigated to be accessed on the net. There is one position I want to present as I very much hear and resonate with much of what is said. I seemed to have been born with a hollow of not seeing meaning or connectedness in the first 7 years of my life. Not connected to my school my community I was happy being in my own world and nursery school and school only seemed to put with children who I didn’t understand and at the same time school taught me that I didn’t know stuff. I couldn’t do school stuff and school taught me to feel ashamed of not knowing stuff. Consequently I didn’t like being there. I just liked being in my own space whether that was sitting under the kitchen table imagining stories or painting or playing with toys being in my space in my head always seemed more fun than being in the structured world. It was not until I got a dream about existing before I was born and the dream gave me my mission message that I began to settle in onto planet earth and each year after 7yrs of age I felt ok about the word home because I kept feeling like I was not home. So disconnectedness was very much part of my early life experience and has always had an element in how I do see the world which has always more easily being big picture thinking seeing patterns in behaviour and making sense of it or trying to. Potentially because of this way of seeing I have always gravitated to spiritual input readers bf zen from 11yrs and exploring meditation. Always believed in God from seemly birth as this seemed like best entity to talk to when not feeling connected to the world. My family were not strong on belief or spiritual belief but did follow tradition of living in a catholic community. However, despite being a believer I remember thinking very judgementally like something out of the Old Testament that I was surrounded by pretenders and I felt the monks of our parish were some of the worst pretenders of the community and I disliked them a lot. But I was only 5 years old with these silent but fierce judgements and of course never knew if their might be any other 5 year old thinking the same thing as of course criticism of an adult would not be encouraged particularly a so called holy man. However, spiritual connection to what I know as spiritual even if it’s not around me has grown and grown inside me. Not be being with others or a congregation. For this reason I think we need to ask about the role of the hermit mind in the 21st Century because I think I was born with a hermit brain which has actually served to connect me by helping me gain wisdom from going inward. Somehow I think the Universe steps in to be the one that brings you the information you might need as a stepping stone to the next piece and next piece. There is a deep connectedness to the Universe to cosmic mind from a hermit brain. I wonder if the way the Universe is responding to the phenomena’s of fragmentation and forces of globalisation is in some type of hermetic way to plant or germ the hermit mind then get to the cosmic oneness. From a earth based perspective it might seem that flow is disruptive to the point of rupture but it seems that the best expert of chaos or quantum multiples is the Universe that can string and thread youness together from dimensions that we don’t even know about. I keep thinking about the bible quote that says God knows how many hairs are in your head at any one time. This knowing of your youness is beyond anything you could fathom within a biological expression of one chronology. But knowing does not need to be a location but an expression. I think if we as a specie could feel safe to not know the world in its finite form then we could discovery a new type of knowledge based in experiential expressions. Meaning the maths is there the formulas exist but to feel what a formula is to know it as energy in the body mind and heart is another type of physicality that is not outwardly seen in our structures and organisations. But I think the back ground programme of hermit mind is constantly turning constantly humming. The future is not newness it’s just tuning.
Yes !!
The reality is that these fine gentlemen are discussing at the doorway as to what is required to open the gates to the possibilities of a new awareness. This new awareness gives the freedom to know ie. the gnosis of the whole as it explicates from the ground of being. Once realized then everything changes as the new awareness is a shift out of left brain ego centricity to one of a mind body conscious awareness centred in union with the divine ground. Once this understanding is brought forth, hopefully these gentlemen would have their ah ah yes that’s what it is all about moment.
You should become their guru 😂
We have a responsability to create Heaven on Earth
I've never had a greater response
DS sounds intelligent and reasonable. But when I do a web search, I can't find much information that seems objective. If anyone has a link to something like a disinterested journalistic exploration of his activities and views, I would appreciate it.
Things are going to get really bad. There is no way to avoid it. These things go in cycles. Best option is to transcend this so-called reality and wake up!
23:15 the “ego of this age” believes money is the cure to just about any situation…but it sure can help a lot when you don’t got much of it.
Three greats.
Need help: I'm sure I heard a game-theoretic term in this discussion but cant find it. The Sabbath, the stock market closing...these are restraints we impose for good (wise) reasons. What is that term? Please help!
It is not just the brain. It is the Precession of the Equinoxes in which human intelligence evolves and changes. Material science does not see humans as sharing in consciousness and mind, humans being not consciousness or mind but sharing in it. Our consciousness and intelligence is on an upward arc from a Dark Age. After electricity and electromagnetism we will understand and use magnetism. We are at the beginning of the upward arc in our current age so we are fortunate.
If they can guide you financially so you don't have to worry about that anymore you could set your mind to all of your studies 39:17
A transcript would be helpful.
Does The Master and His Emissary address Eastern Christian Wisdom literature, which could loosely be described as left hemisphere ?
John Vervakue, sir, saluting you for your accurate diagnosis of the meaning crisis. You are also in the territory of the solution to the same, missing the target because, well, because you are unaware of deeper realities which are not merely psychological but ontological. Your understanding of mystical states is incomplete, not for any fault of yours but because it is not a matter of greater practise or the right practice. It is out of man's volitional control to access those states; its for the chosen ones who have the approporiate evolutionary fitness for those post-human states. From a tantra practitioner in the Sri Vidya tradition of Hinduism. Tantra is integral to some Buddhist paths as well.
i feel like u need to talk to Dr. Robert Gilbert
@John Vervaeke - What place does the dominance behaviour system in the brain, play on this. Does it exist? Is that left brained thinking and so, social strategies are needed to compensate/balance out?