Cartoons are SHIP REKT!
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Is Shipping ruining cartoon fandom? Why do animation fans care so much about the relationship status of fictional kid's cartoon characters? The Owl House is at the center of a non-troversy because Luz is apparently LGBTQ+. Then we talk about how children's cartoons are seemingly being hijacked by teen and adult shippers, and how it seems to be guiding the direction of the animated series that that are picked up. And what's up with all the "prom" episodes of cartoon series?!
Series discussed include The Owl House, Steven Universe, MLP, Adventure Time and of course, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power.
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I have a friend who is a tall girl (180 cm), she never dresses girly because there are not clothes for her and a skirt looks like a mini on her.
I did a comic where a character was inspired on her and people attacked me because she wasn't trans or gay because she was tall and wears pants. You can't do anything now without people questioning the sexuality of the characters... I had to take it down.
I already told this but it's annoying.
Well that sucks people shouldn't be stuck in a box light that. Thats the time to say I'm the creator and I do what I feel like doing. The creator of Owl house did that with her show but the other way.
We thank you for sharing this, either way. It's not a bad with what you came up with, not gonna lie. But yeah, folks who attack people like you and many others like that and who just want to tell a story, is unacceptable behavior.
People know that ones sexuality doesnt tell them who the character is or what theyre about right? Like im heterosexual, does that let ANYONE know anything about me? No so why is this so important?
@@Nihonguy You can't be a tomboy or tomgirl anymore without being trans, lesbian or gay.
Those are the current social rules.
Rules that are completely outlandish, stupid and need to be ignored.
I'm sorry that happened, maybe one day you'll get to do a re-release.
It's not the fact that they write a character as Gay,Bi, or Trans, it's how they write the character that makes it good or bad. The thing that bothers most people is how production companies in the snap of a finger change the background and sexuality of a charter, and then virtue signal "hey look we have a LGBTQ character...WATCH OUR SHOW!!!!" just to make money.
Exactly right. Then these people don’t see that they’re tokenizing these people for more views and money.
Pretty much, Lester!
name one time that happend?
@@bee514 Most Marvel superheroes.
@@Mailed-Knight There was someone else here who said about regarding Glee.
Even the She-Ra fans that I know said everyone wanted to see 14 year olds make out. I'm getting a little freaked out over this....
With "Cuties" it's being put into live action movies as well.
...I get these feeling those fans are more or less likely the same set of people when they see say a legal-loli, oppai loli, anything that relates to loli but also mature, they shat on it, I just have this feeling they’re the same set or kind of people who would do that I respect the people who genuinely don’t like loli for their stature looking like a child, I just like legal lolis cuz short people can also be mature anyways and something like age and looks is debatable since uhh there are definitely people who don’t look their age irl anyways.
@@Albert_Lecter03 No idea what this lolI thing is but HELL YEAH short women lol
Sr&tPoP is memorable enough, but to obsess over the characters' relationships is kind of pathetic. Whatever happened to enjoying cartoons for the art?
And since I know Noelle is gay, I'm not surprised.
@@QJ89 its creepy that you think of sex, even though Luz is barley in a relationship.
Shipping use to be harmless fun, hell even I enjoyed doing this. But the last several years it has gotten so toxic. Especially on Tumblr. If they don't get their ship they will burn the show to the ground thinking that this shit actually matters. Cartoons are now effectively held hostage by shippers.
I still ship but i don't participate in any fandom and it's all adults and older anime. The thing is shipping is almost never supposed to be cannon. I always thought that was the point.
Yep. I did the same but shippers have gotten way too out of hand. But at least in Owl House it seems they aren't gonna drag it out for 4 seasons and maybe we could at least see Amity and Luz be together instead of will they won't they cliche.
@@ketami2 that is the point. I still ship kim possible and shego but you don't see me attack people for preferring kim and ron
I think Voltron is the most infamous example of that, where they actually held part of the show hostage.
When the creative team started to pander to the shipper they realize that if you tell loud enough you will get your ship canon.
One of my goals if I get to create an animated series:
Interviewer: “what are the sexual orientations of your characters?”
Me: “Does it matter?”
guess it depends on whom the interviewer is and where they stand on the political side , they may say :n YES
DarkLizerdGuy that’s when I break there mic in half and hand then £50 to fix it.
Me: they're all straight. Oh except for the one villain who wants to turn everyone gay because it wants to feel less lonely... it dies at the end.
Hit them with the classic. "yes"
@@lilchristuten7568 What a epic story
What is ironic is most of the time creators talk about being LGBTQ+ inclusive, they almost always mean lesbians/bisexual woman with a wife or girl friend. I think I would respect them more if they wanted to have more guys. Because of how much lesbians are fetishized, it's actually a safe choice for creators to add for being "inclusive" without really doing anything.
Kipo and the age of wonder beast has a gay (almost main) character. It might not be immediate but they are making progress. Remember right now creators still have to tip toe or deal with censoring. There may be a few shows out there right now with LGBTQ characters, but more likely than not they had to wait till the end so the show wouldn't loose views due to mob mentality. I don't blame them for having to play safe a little bit right now.
The hollow has a gay male and it revealed with one phrase and the female protagonist has two dads.
Do you think people like in this comment section would welcome a male GBT character
let's be real now
Ok
@ClownfishTV
Kneon: “I’m gonna make straight hetero robot cartoon, and the robots are gonna go to prom.”
Me: “Isn’t that just the premise for My Life as a Teenage Robot?”
Its a great show.
Kind of. Except Jenny was the only robot.
Isn't the a premise of robots the movie except there's no prom
@@draconshot928 Yeab but Robots was Lit, very fun and engaging. Pretty Underrated
I heard they use it now as example for Trans character
Kids don't care about dating, period, and it shouldn't be the focus of the show. They just don't understand, or care, or should care. Teenagers on the other hand, are the ones who care only about that. For the past several decades, everything has been targeted at teenagers, and now even kids shows. Can we stop? They have whole networks for them. They don't even have their own money. This is probably what's given young people such big egos over the last 50 years.
What about Peanuts one of the most popular comic strips of all time. Charlie Brown was madly in love with the little red haed girl. Lucy was in love with Schroder, Sally was in love with Linus.
Little mermaid the whole movie is about romance. Beauty and the Beast all about romance. Kids can't handle romance even though their parents are married what sense does that make.
Fun fact about Peanuts Charles Schultz said that alot of the characters are baised on aspects of his own personality. He was in love with a woman with red hair and she chose the other guy. Thats why Charlie Brown is madly in love with the Little red head girl. And he is like 8 years old. Although part of the humor is the kids sometimes act like adults kinda like how stewie griffin sometimes acts like a baby and sometimes acts like a grown up.
some kids do care abt dating and also yeh teenagers care abt dating do you know who are teenagers? the charcters in the owl house, the show is just realistic
@@icecreamhero2375 They were written like that in the first place. Even if it was a retcon, they were retconned like that because the creator thought it made sense. They didn't do it because a whole community of sick paedo bears shit their nappies and throw all their toys out of the pram because the little red-haired girl didn't suck Charlie Brown off. The cartoon was still made to be family-friendly and the whole point was that he didn't get her.
2:52 - "Spongebob's Queer identity is more compicated than you think"
I dunno what's so complicated about Stephen Hillenburg literally saying he's not gay and neither is Patrick.
I would absolutely believe Squidward is gay though.
but Hillenburg is dead now! I'm sure he's spinning in his grave there's two spin offs coming out... one focuses on Patrick... doing a talk show apparently?
Spooka Boo squidward has actually had more dates than anyone else except maybe Mr Krabs or Larry and then in the prequel comic booklets before the series Spongebob has a kinda thing for Sandy at the end of one singular mini stories in the entire thing but he’s for the most part just deeply affectionate for life around him like I’m sure spongebob is the kind of guy who would agree to marry a stump of coral if he thought it would make its life better overall
TheGuyWhoIsSitting I don’t see how Patrick having his own version of Johnny Carson or something is necessarily a bad thing... I mean yeah Stephen didn’t want any Spin-Offs of anything so that part of it is bad but it’s not like their having a spin-off where Patrick goes off and buys a house with Spongebob and it turns into a Family Guy cutaway gag or something. As long as Patrick is still true to his character and the show is actually funny I don’t exactly see too much of a problem with it but again we’ll have to wait and see
When did he say that? I remember he said spongebob is asexual but those aren't mutually exclusive
Do kids even watch cartoons today like we used to? The last cartoon my son watched was Phineas and Ferb and that was years ago. None of our kids friends seem to watch cartoons with any regularly. I think cartoons have gone the way of comics where kids aren't into it and the audience is adults and teens who have fond memories of it from thier youth and kids a simply no longer considered the desired audience.
Yeah and pretty much most of the younger generation ( including mine ) are pretty much now viewing manga and anime now because they have variety and they come up with original concepts and in some story's the main characters actually work there butts off to become who they want to become and get the things and abilities they want
I stopped caring even when i was in middleschool. Lowest common denominator boring VA vocal fry uptalk coupled with equally lazy ugly flash animation, its why i went back into anime.
It also kinda related to the dead of tv, anime for years had a big espace on unofficial websites and streaming services, cartoons are having a hard time adapting and changing. As someone who loves cartoons and anime, is so much easier to find and watch animes online.
They busy with tick tok and fornite
@@neonxraven99 and RUclips.
I hate when shows, games, and movies focuses on the characters sexuality or ethnicity. Especially if its an already stablished series or/and its about something else entirely. Unless the show is about that, i don't give 2 shits about characters sexuality or ethnicity.
Agreed. Makes me miss the 90s and 2000s.
I think it depends on the genre. I'm a nerd so I like watching anime, and I've seem a bunch of series that handle sexuality and political issues respectfully, and with a focus on story. A lot of these Western attempts to indoctrinate society into "acceptance" is just antagonistic. When I see a Star Wars film I can care less about LGBTQ, race, and real world politics. And when these woke people start bullying fans and critics it tells me they don't respect their audience. I hope one day these SJWs grow up, but that's asking too much.
Then why should you care to complain about it lol? I for one do care about this, I hate virtue signalling, the very people bragging about how woke they are are part of the problem instead of the solution. It's all filling a quota for them, token black dude, token latino, token girls, it's all a joke, especially when everything still falls into the same old tropes. We had diversity back in the 2000's with shows like Static Shock, and everyone liked that because it wasn't a weak attempt by twitter phonies. If y'all want diversity then have it, just stop pretending you deserve a medal for it.
@@SeniorCharry i know what you mean. Ive read and seen plenty of manga/anime with misandrist, lesbians, gay characters, and even race/genderswapped characters like poco and koichi from jojo. Not once did they turn me off from said series because Japan isnt the West and faaar more often than not I trust it to actually fit into the story or at the very least interest me. One of the best examples was a lesbian man hating character from the anime Date a live who's traits were used as an obstacle for the MC because he had to become romantically involved with people like her to seal their dangerous powers but up until that point he had to deal with straight girls, THAT is interesting and wasnt done for gays sake or to win any points with feminazis.
The worst part is when a character is suddenly an alphabet mafia member when they first were straight as an arrow like Iceman.
Anyone notice how it’s always gay/ bi girls? You don’t seen any male main characters being gay in kids shows, only if they’re girls.
The sad truth is girls that are gay/ bi get HIGHER ratings than gay/ bi men. Women used to advertise something (shows, movies, games ,etc.) has always been a popular tactic Hollywood utilizes for profit.
Even though Gay/ Bi men exist, they either A) Might not create enough revenue as Gay/ Bi women do in advertising, or B) Gay/ Bi men are more likely to result in people *possibly* flagging the product for whatever dumb reason they could think of, or C) Both.
But that's what I think. *shrugs shoulders*
The hollow does.
Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts did. They actually handled it quite well. The main female character crushes on a boy, but then he tells her he's gay. She goes "Ohhhhhh" and that's that.
I guess it's more appropriate for kids
@@SushiStriker That was good representation. But sadly Twitter fucks are gonna pervert that and make Benson's character all about being gay and make gay his only personality trait instead of shrugging it off and going "oh cool, a gay character".
Latelly, shows have been building more ships than the spanish empire
If only we could go back to the good ole days of the empire...
Lol, man, those were the great times for ships
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
I prefer spanish ships, at least they fired cannonballs and served to transport goods.
Animes kinda been doing that tho
I think its interesting that all these "first bi character in blank" are always female. Like men cant be bi. More like they dont want to admit men can like both women and other men.
probably because they think all men are secreting fucking guys on the side. thats where idea of a bromance originated, as in two bros being romantically involved.
Kind of like how whenever they talk about open relationships in a positive light it's always a girl with multiple boyfriends, never a guy with multiple girlfriends. Given, an open relationship doesn't tend to work (I've never seen a single successful one), so it's bad either way, but it's only portrayed as positive when it's one way.
Probably cuz anime took that spot already
@@flarestorm9417 ah the double standards. How "progressive"
@@roguefreeman1180 Ah, so very regressive of them. Indeed.
Many of these cartoon characters don’t need to be in relationships. Most of the stuff I watch when I was younger didn’t have characters getting together as a couple
That was because you had more peer/colleague/comrade-in-arms/mentor relationships going on than romantic relationships. ;)
Good for you, I had the opposite experience. It really bothered me back when I was a kid and having to almost every cartoon I enjoyed having romantic subplots and the ship with the protagonist I disliked turning canon in the end. I really didn't like romance put into shows but it was everywhere for me
Not necessarily. I remember some major romances in the cartoons I grew up with in the 90's. They were presented as just a part of character development, it would just naturally develop over time. Of course, those shows were usually aimed at a teen audience, so maybe that's the difference.
having gays in your show does not make it good
The Owl House is still good regardless.
UltraAnimaniac101 yeah, but I’m still concerned about it’s future
@@The_Wolf_At_Your_Door Na it's pretty trash and the fanbase only cares for the ships
I agree 👍
The quality of the story is the main crunch.
Owl house is great, Harry Potter fandom have the spiciest ship on the net
Almost sounds like a horror movie... "They Came From Tumblr"
How about, "The Terror from Tumblr!"
LOL
Yep
The Swamp Monster from the Tumblr Lagoon
Cool. I can imagine a 50s style horror movie.
Buzz & Janet: Gee whiz, doc, what are these monsters?
Doctor: *Lights pipe and switches on projector* Well Buzz, they're called Tumbleroids. When we harnessed the power of the Internet, little did we know the monsters we would create. *looks off into middle distance*
Buzz: Holy mental issues, doc How can we stop them!?
Doctor: I don't know buzz - here have a drink - we tried Reason, Logic, even friendly conversation, I think...we eventually must use the Cognitive-dissonance-disruptor-ray!|
*Que dramatic Theremin Music*
"Shipping" is totally ruining story lines.
Why?
The people who make them tend to sacrifice the story for what's usually an awkward pairing.
Nothing wrong with relationships in shows. But they often become the focus to pander to the fandom.
@@ClownfishTV Correct. Build the natural relationship into the story so it can make sense.
I'm 36 and Gargoyles is one of my favorite shows.
I wanted Goliath and the detective to some how get together because Demona was bat crap crazy hahaha.
But that wanting that cross species relationship made sense because of all of the story and character development.
It wasn't just "PUT THEM TOGETHER OR ELSE!" like it is now a days.
@@retiresatisfied It helps that Alisa VERY obviously wanted Goliath from the moment she saw him more or less. Great show
@@ClownfishTV Lumity is not a big part of the story. It is not mature, its is not sexual, and everybody should ship it.
@@retiresatisfied yup
It’s sinking the Western cartoon industry faster than all those non-existent merchandise sales.
Fine with me. The quicker these idiots destroy themselves the better.
The creatives are as toxic as the social media twits. What a foundation on which to base a product offering.
DAILY REMINDER THAT DISNEY SENT CRUISERS TO EPSTEIN'S ISLAND.
You know excluding all that politics and agenda aside lets face it, they were just going to continue to suck to nothing.
Whose gonna tell him The Owl House is one of the most successful tv shows out right now
Isn't Luz Disney's sixth or seventh first LGBT-character?
@@hibiscusishere But that isn't from Disney. It's Dreamworks / Mattel.
I think shes the first protagonist for Disney, like Jackie on star vs. Was bi but not the main character
Luz isn't confirmed to be LGBT yet. She has only shown interest in boys so far.
Creator said that lu(l)z is bi.
And that doesn't speak very well of those cartoons if that is the thing that's keeping them afloat in the fandom.
The sad thing to me is you cannot be 'friends' anymore, any characters that are friendly with each other are then latched on to as shipping bait and this is true both in entertainment and real life!
I know, right? It really gets annoying.
And I am saying that as a Shipper!
Sometimes two Characters work just better as Friends.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Real life as in celebrities or actual real life? Cause if its celebrities thats true, but IRL not so much. Girls can be close with their gal pals without being labeled as gay. Sadly isn't the same for dudes though. Or a girl and guy.
Is shipping ruining cartoons?
Answer: *YES!!!!*
Makorra shippers ruined Korra fans harder than korrasami
Of course just look at Star VTFOE, shipping killed this show and Starco is the worst ship in the show that was clearly forced.
Let me in! LET ME IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN!
Not really tbh. Its technically th creators fault for listening to the fans
Fanfiction is ruining the industry
Anime has obligatory "Beach Episode" and in the West we have the obligatory "Prom Episode".
In Anime they do it for fun and fan service as going to the beach is a special event for people.
In the West they do it for coping with self-inflicted personal psychological trauma.
That is...disturbingly on point.
And If it's not a beach episode, it's a hot springs episode, or both.
Or a baseball episode (i.e. Kill la Kill, BNA or Dragon Ball Super)
At least the beach, hot springs and baseball episodes are fun, for the most part.
Also, going to the beach is fun. Prom is just a way for these wokesters to push their SJW agendas cause theyre mad they had a shitty prom.
One of my favorit shows has not an entire hotspring episode but a hotspring scene and its so dam funny. It puts a smile on my face every time. And I watched that show 10 times.
I can't quote Peter Griffin's "OH MY GOD! WHO THE HELL CARES!" enough in regards who this recent surge of forcing characters in children's cartoons to be shipped! I, for once, do not care if Jamie and Johnny got together, or Sammy and Suzy. If I want to know who gets with who, I'll watch something geared for late teens/young adults. Cartoons should be teaching kids how to have fun, some early life lessons (ATLA did this perfectly), how to deal with death (yes, I said it), and other things. *NOT* whether a child character enters a romantic relationship or no.
Enough is enough. Jeez, the toxicity has gotten to near lethal levels....
I feel the same. I've never once joined a fandom nor have a cared about who ships who. The only time I ever hear about it now is honestly from RUclipsrs who constantly bring it up.
Fans raging at creators when their ship isn't made canon is deplorable. They're just as bad as those who attack them for including same sex characters. Two sides of the same coin, ridiculous.
As for ATLA, though it was never the center point of the show, it had a LOT of episodes including romance. And Aang's interest in Katara was consistent through out. Believe he was 10 in the show too? All those on here yelling about romance between characters being equal to sexualization would have a field day with that show -__-.
Yes, because the owl house is a cartoon, therefor definitely aimed at children and not for teens and young adults.
I just hate how Rick and Morty doesn't teach kids how to have fun.
@@GothicOtaku33 _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ didn't have *_that_* many episodes with romance in it. Most of the ones that *_do_* have it are only between Aang and Katara, and Prince Zuko and Mai (with Prince Zuko and Katara on occasion); and that's mainly in Season 3/"Book 3: Fire".
Remember when we were in to Animation for the Art?
@@iGlui99 but the owl house is for kids.
"in anime, there aren't a lot of self-insert characters"
isekai protagonists have left the chat
Not even mentioning a number of gag characters are also this. Mineta from MHA is basically Horikoshi's insert.
Imagine I liked this one thousand times.
Hey, he only said anime. Hentai is still on the table.
@@nbewarwe The Ugly Bastards: let us introduce ourselves.
@@shinigamiryan5837 no go back to where you came from
Hello? Shipping is what fanfics are for. If you don't get the ship you want, fine! Don't flip out about it! Write your own happy ending!
Exactly
OrionPax09 Isn't that what we call "FixFic"?
@@jenneacubero1036 Don't know. Don't carr. What I do know is that writing such a fic seems a lot more practical than making others miserable.
@@orionpax0946 Definitely. I still remember how brutal the LapisxPeridot fans got with some of the show's writers.
That's me. And I'm just one of those guys who does what he wants, leaving others to do what they want.
Leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone.
Remember when people like characters for their personalities, goals and flaws, And not care about their race, sex, or romantic preferences ? I miss those days.
I remember but sadly those days are gone now replaced by stuff like this.
People still like them for their personalities?
Ur the only one making it about race and sex..
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't watch The Owl House until I watched the fight scene in the two-part season finale. I saw the Luz/Amity Grom clip and I was like "Oh that's cute :)" and put it off for a bit because I had other stuff to do. But then I saw the Eda/Lilith fight and I was like "OHHHH WHAT?? THIS LOOKS SMOOTH" and I binged it in a day.
Just saying maybe you're the one seeing all that stuff. Because I'm a little shortsighted so I can't see how far you're reaching. ^w^
@Tala Habern THIS! THIS RIGHT HERE
This reminds me of an interview I read about Hiro Mashima when he says that the fans’ demands to ship characters often puts strain on their work and makes it tougher for the story to flow and ruin possible relationships that were pre-planned
Given what happened in the wake of Naruto and Bleach ending, he has a point regardless of what you think of his work. If you want better understanding look up Hall of Anal Devastation, which is a collection of image showing the meltdown of the aforementioned fanbases, one for both groups of fans.
The romances he wanted to make in his work suck so I’m glad he didn’t listen.
Makes sense to me, it's in conflict with the consumer. And speaks to the immaturity of said consumer.
Just go the way of Eiichiro Oda and get rid of romance in the main cast altogether.
The only ship that exists in One Piece is Luffy x Meat
well, regards shipping, it's human nature to pair characters up. Fandom just takes it too far and too seriously. As for LGBT themes (or lack thereof) from Disney? yeah, not surprised, they announced that Lefou was Gay in the Live Action version of Beauty and the Beast, but never did anything with it, other then a gag at the end of the film when Lefou dances with a man (Stanlet) very briefly.
it's a cop out.
But with Owl House, the LGBTQ+ themes feel more authentic; especially with Amity's character.
All her life; she's been emotionally manipulated, abused and was forced to cut ties off with her only real friend. But then, Luz comes along and this random human girl managed to help break down the emotional walls she created over her life.
With this in mind, what right do the crybabies have to try and destroy the Lumity Ship before it has a chance to set sail
You see, the thing about LGBT+ representation is that it's kind of a balancing act to a point. You don't want a story where they just throw it in your face and treat sexual orientation like a personality trait. But on the other hand, you have companies pander to crowds in small ways that can easily be hidden or cut out entirely in regions where they'll lose them money. Then there are characters that are retroactively made LGBT+ so that creators can pretend to be more progressive than they actually were. And then there's the question of whether this should be in media aimed at kids at all.
I think in most cases it is a cop out, either for pandering or because of money. But I think that there are plenty of examples of the extreme opposite, which are just as bad.
@@sadlobster1 you didn't describe a LGBT theme, you described a human theme.
and he said a little comment insinuating his desire for gaston... disney did it so they wont get in trouble with China...
tbh, im not a fan of anime and manga, but the few i watched back in the day when i was a niño handled those tematics pretty well.
btw, nice to see ya here jean, keep growing ur channel :)
@@sadlobster1 They have as much right to oppose it, as you do to support it.
I went to college for creative writing for entertainment and I hated the tv script writing, but...I’m half thinking I should write a kids tv show without *any* ships. 😤
Twitter would hate me. 🤣
If you do have the talent and ability you should go for it. This may be the time for truly talented writers to rise.
I draw my own cartoon but I don't really have shipping basically 90% of the characters are in relationships and they are all fuctional with the occasional spat.
@@icecreamhero2375
What's it called?
I'm an animator, and I'm totally prepared for the amount of hate I'll be getting if I wrote any same sex relationships in a show (no matter how well done it is) and if I don't write any ships at all. LoL you got crazy people on both ends.
@@Thecrocodiemanmask Real Tiny Faires. They are faries and they are half an inch tall but magic doesn;t exist dispite that crazy stuff happens any way. Sometimes human step on them because they are freaky and small. I posted a little bit on the interenet but not alot. I drew alot of comics that aren;t possted it takes for ever to do.
It's a cartoon, why does their sexual relationship matter and if they're LGBT? Isn't that why fanfics exist?
They are making fanfics doujinshi to be official, what a sad and twisted reality we live in nowadays.
The landscape of narrative story telling has changed. It's far more relationship focused than when many of us were kids.
Yes that is why they exist....to a point.
And I should know I review fanfics
@Mr Nobody which is never a good idea when people like daikari king mykan, my immortal, mary sues are running rampant
@@ryantheanimator1156
Sadly this industry hires tumblr fanfic people in position nowadays to handle official material
Look what happened to Marvel and DC and some og reboots cough Shera cough
I play this game with Netflix originals where every time a character's sexuality becomes a plot point, I stop watching.
So is a lost every time.
Troll Hunter series is the only series I didn't see this happen to. I think because Del Toro is a big enough name that he not going to get push around by them.
Sounds like a good game.
How many shows is that then? And which ones? that could be a lot
I’ve yet to make it through the first episode of a recent Netflix show for much that reason. I also bail as soon as the show starts insulting me the viewer.
As someone from Germany the whole Prom thing is weird for me. And I'm glad we never had that kind of thing. Just feels wasteful and stressful, especially if you were bullied in school.
Here in Australia, if we had some sort of school-sponsored social gathering, I just wouldn't go.
I also wouldn't translate my social anxiety and self-hatred in to a story, either.
Naja bei uns in Österreich gibts den Maturaball
@@Nutmeg- English: Well, here in Austria there is the Maturaball.
As long as that's optional and not some Rite of Passage, it wouldn't make for an exciting episode!
Solange dies optional ist und kein Ritus der Passage, wäre es keine aufregende Folge!
@@QJ89 ok
80’s let’s sell toys
90’s lets be edgy
00’s let’s make cool Heros for everyone
10’s I want to be that cool hero who goes to prom.
What about 2,00s?
@@wcthesecret 2000s is "let's make cool heroes for everyone"
Wtf is a prom?
20's *bankruptcy*
@@laoaidan2400
It's a high school event that centers around dancing and a stupid popularity contest of voting for king and queen.
All this obsession with proms makes me think this creators didn´t went to their respective proms when they were teenagers and if they went it obviously was a horrible mess. And I´m with you, this shows are more a self insert of the creators who have the urge to feel special.
If it's the later situation I would feel kinda bad lol
No disney channel and teen movies always over hyped the prom. The movies and tv shows make it look more exciting than it is actually is. I would like to see a prom satire. The clossest thing I've seen to a prom satire is when Spongebob was chaproneing Pearl he was embaracing her the whole time. Then they danced and did the Sponge and wrecked the place and got thrown out.
Yeah, I don't get the big focus on proms either. Maybe it's just me since I never cared for dances (I didn't go to my prom), but prom is pretty much just a more hyped up version of a school dance, at least that's how I saw it. Unless you have a partner to go with, I never really saw the point of attending it. And let's be honest here, parents and teachers will police a prom like heck. So if anything mature happens (like a drinking game or something), it would be in parties after the prom, not part of the prom itself.
See I don't get this mindset. It could just as easily been that their prom was such a poignant and fond part of their life that they see it as a good place to write in pivital events.
Anime has these same sorts of troupes with other events as well.
@@icecreamhero2375 I remember in the earlier seasons of the Simpsons there was an episode in which they makes a school dance and it backfires because the boys and girls feel weird around each other cuz they are still KIDS! And in the end it also becomes a mess because Bart and Homer fill the entire gym with grease. XD
I honestly despise shipping; romantic relationships are nigh-irrelevant in most things that aren't a tweenbait -- and even then it still detracts from the plot and proper character development -- so people's obsession and their desperate attempts to force it in really sicken me.
Even worse now that sexual orientation is being treated as a character trait; straight, gay, or whatever -- if the team someone bats for is irrelevant to the plot or character development, then it doesn't matter. I thought defining someone by sexuality was a _bad_ thing?
I must agree. The obsession with proms is ridiculus. What, the person they liked went out with somebody else?
They're obsessed bc they have the idea that proms are for straight people and are like "hey what if prom... but gay" when that really isn't the case, prom isnt for one sexuality over the other. Just happens that most people in the world are straight so most couples at proms are too. Its literally just logic. If most of the world was gay then the couples at proms would be mostly gay. Prom doesnt cater to any sexuality.
these people were usually among the unpopular kids in high school and never got asked to prom most likely.
Prom was meh in real life. But society as a whole has worked it up to be something bigger. It's why almost everyshow based in a school setting , old or new, has a school dance (prom). We'd have to penalize every show with a prom episode and maybe even get rid of it in real life for it to loose relevance in media
The worst thing about this whole agenda-driven mindset that modern American artists have now is, that they are actually very behind other countries in terms of diversity and the LGBT-representation. The French folks have created many cartoons and comics starring gingers and people of colour either as an important supporting character or being even the main star of their own franchise, while the Japanese artists have created LGBT characters since the 80s. This is why I really just can not take modern American cartoons and comics seriously. To create a good cartoon/comic you need talent, passion, and, like SpongeBob would say: "IMAGINATION". You can not just come up with your first concept, slap an agenda on it, and call it a day. The Owl House isn't the worst thing on this planet, it has decent character designs, good animation, and nice-looking backgrounds, but it is one of the more unimaginative shows I have seen so far. A kid going to a magic school is one of the most used tropes for a children's show. If it wasn't for the LGBT representation, no one would even talk about The Owl House.
Exactly, it feels like they miss the point of diversity and inclusivity. Just because the majority of the world is straight doesn't mean every other person have to be gay, let alone, have their whole character trait being just that. A gay character can be just as boring as a straight character without something other than that to definite them. There's a reason why you can't market your show on "female-centric" because that's just asking to lose the audience immedately because you'll hear the same talking point "Women are X, Y, and Z compare to men, men are trash, etc., etc.
@Lisa Lisa
I mostly enjoy cartoons from the 40's and 2000's.
The Owl House as a concept I really like, you don't actually see many "A kid going to a magic school" shows, especially western animation, in recent years. There *is* interesting world/lore-building with magic, but most of it gets overshadowed by other things.
Omg somebody finally put it in to words thank you @Erich Scheidle
In my opinion a character's orientation should be background info. I'm ok with shipping if it's part of a romantic plot. (in which case it still needs to be compelling and well written) If your entire character is defined by there orientation then they are just lazily written.
shipping used to be relegated to fan art and fan fiction, where you could pair any character you wanted, which I was fine with. now you have people literally threatening the creators with violence and death if their head canon isnt made actual canon. then there are the people who write it that just want to make romance porn for social justice brownie points which isnt nearly as bad as threats of physical violence but still something I wish people would stop.
The toxic ones just suck the fun it used to be. Now even within those parts of fandom, the ship battles and personal taste stomp on are becoming the norm. It's just very disheartening. *shrugs*
creators shouldn't give death threats any mind.
@@volcanicred9078 While the sentiment may hold, stalkers are however a RL/cyber issue? :/
I'm reminded of an old Popeye cartoon where Popeye and Bluto were trying to get this customer to eat at their restaurant. They ended up having a food fight, with the guy in the center catching and eating a good meal.
Popeye and Bluto: Shipping war
Guy: Me, casually enjoying my ships
They're basically the most miserable people in surburbia, they have nothing but the fandom. So it makes sense that they'd REEEEE at content creators who don't make EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT
It's annoyed me for a long-ass time. Even longer than SJWs were around. I used to roll my eyes at the fact that platonic friendships between male and female characters couldn't exist without people assuming romance was involved, and now it can't even exist between characters of the same sex.
Double yes 👍 👍!
It's so sad it's true
Yup. We can’t just be friends anymore.
My thoughts exactly! As much as I didn't like the Disney SW the shipping of Poe and Finn really irritated me.
Yeah. Whatever happened to the pack of friends that had each others back throughout a story. And did not end up paired up with each other for the drama...😔
I didn't go to prom. Seemed stupid. But I'm also a hermit, so whatever.
If i had to sum it up, at least for my prom, a good time to be stupid with your pals for an extortionary price tag.
@@shemarwhit8977
Basically
Prom was the best. The dessert buffet was amazing. Oh right being with friends was fun too I guess.
@@fernandod4046 I person who has their priorities straight, I see!
@@fernandod4046 not gonna lie. i never went to prom at all but when I heard there was going to be a chocolate fountain i was slightly intrigued! but then I thought as much as I love chocolate is it worth the money and not to mention the social awkwardness??? nah.....🤷♂️
What is wrong with people these days. Can't kids keep there innocence? I'm sick of this "Oh we need to show LGBTQ+ kids." When I was a kid I didn't know what being gay was, nor did I care. Let kids be kids.
I actually liked the way The Owl House executes the pairing implication of Amity and Luz, the only problem is that the media and fandom focuses only on that moment and that’s how the whole show is defined
This hyper fixation on this one moment of an entire show can kill it. Shippers really are the reason why we can’t have nice things
This is true. I recall specifically dropping Voltron Legendary Defender not because of the quality of the show, but because I'd gotten so sick of the wretched Lance/Keith shippers as well as those people who focused on the 'reveal' that Shiro had a boyfriend.
@@muhaoai4693 avoiding most social media helps
@@fernandod4046 Oh, I'm not on any social media like Facebook or Twitter at all. That's part of the reason I had such hatred.
As part of my job, I check the news every morning, and during that period there were quite a few articles on "Why it's important Keith and Lance get together" or "The cowardice of Voltron's creators" (in regards to Shiro).
I had to start actively blocking those sites when I came to the conclusion they were basically blogs masquerading as news sites.
@@muhaoai4693 ugh, those articles titles sound annoying. Sorry you have to go through that.
Sadly fandoms can really bog down a show. I don't really engage with them in general. Best case scenario; the writing stays strong and pushes through the early storm. Once the hype dies down, if the show stays high quality, it'll be ok. I have hope for that since they're playing Amity as cute awkward crush rather than OMG representation, in the show proper.
This is why many kids have given up on modern cartoons and are watching the old stuff. If they watch cartoons at all. There is a 10 year old girl who lives next door, that my family looks after when her single parent dad has to work or go to the shops or something and I have gotten her watching all the cartoon series from the 80's and 90's (plus one or two good ones from the early to mid 2000's) She says they are far better, story wise, than the crap disguised as kids cartoons that is put out now.
This is good news to me! Nice to know the mass majority of children aren't getting corrupted after all!!
@Misanthropic Attack Helicopter kids don't need to learn about sex!! It's nothing to do with if a kid is smart or not!🤦♀️
There’s still hope lads!
Hasbro is uploading full episodes of the '80s G.I. Joe cartoon on their official RUclips channel. That show is before my time but its a helluva lot better than the trash we have today.
And funny enough, it even has a diverse main cast with women, blacks, asians, and Native Americans. The woke keep pretending diversity was invented in 2016, so just show them this.
Swat Katz, Batman Beyond, Angry Beavers, Rugrats, Hey Arnold, Thundercats (1987 and 2011), Transformers G1, Jem, Captain Planet, The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, The Real Ghostbusters, Extreme Ghostbusters, Men in Black: The Animated Series, Ren & Stimpy, The Mask and many more.
You can find a lot of them on Kimcartoon.
All fans have bad apples they're are bad fans in all fandoms. Just look at the my hero academia fandom trying to cancel just because they wont ship characters
Main difference is japan isnt the west so they have no power. Im just happy I've never run into any of those freaks while posting my mha fan manga
Straight doesn’t exist to them
They're the same people that call for Anime censorship screaming that it leads to "child abuse" though most of it is not made for kids yet the western cartoons that are supposedly made for young kids you gotta insert shipping kids & sexual lifestyles, and says that it's all fine & dandy. So freaking hypocritical of them.
They are very trying to do of having their cake and eat it too. It's got to be one or the other... this isn't doing the progress, just regressing. If that makes sense.
um dude these kids shows show kids having crushes its not a big deal. i do agree though cencership in adult content is stupid
No, they are not in fact the same people.
Know your enemies, don't just clump them all together.
@@RokuroCarisu yeh like i am living evidence that he is wrong
@@RokuroCarisu Oh please do explain yourself as to why I am mistaken.
The only bright side is this is it's own IP instead of an existing one
And its pretty entertaining with a better magic system than harry pothead. So its enough as for the gay teen stuff meh, so far they didnt take it too far outside the friendly rival having an obvious crush on the protag.
Honestly feels like they're overreacting this one time.
@@blindedjourneyman I agree but I understand that reaction cause a lot of other shows have been ham fisted and agenda-y about it. Owl House is just doing the awkward teen girl crush thing. It's all pretty chased and harmless. Plus they're 14 so it isn't like they're little kids. It's just that Amity is crushing on another girl.
@@blindedjourneyman gotta get those outrage clicks and youtube ad revenue!
@@azamonra is the show worth watching animation looks good
@@GamerBoy870 I guess it is... If you don't mind watching it become a dumpsterfire eventually.
What's up with the lesbian ships in western cartoons? Steven universe, Korra and Asami, Adora and Catra, Princess bubble gum and Marceline, and now Luz and Amity? Why so many lesbian ships??
The problem with western animation these days is because of these representations that are added in western animation.
The real problem is that all this folk came from Tumblr. People from Tumblr are the outcast of society, and not in a good way, this are the folks who were weird their whole life because of their own life choices not because of stuff they couldn’t control.
Later all this folk grew up to be messed up adults who self exiled from society and later found difficult to integrate to the real world and thus began to get lost more and more on the internet, and later became obsessed with their ideal fictional world.
For the TLDR crew, essentially: This are LITERAL man-babies, who are trying to relive their “ideal” life through cartoons.
It also doesn’t help that folk are also obsessed with sexuality and representation, and later you find out that they are pedophiles (Check the controversy behind the creator of “Twelve Forever”) . So yeah modern day cartoonists are children in adults body, with a ton of unresolved issues and depraved minds created for being too much on Tumblr.
Now my biggest question is, why are they so obsessed with LTBQ+ pairings and only pushing that type of pairing?
i thought your comment was so bad i will personally break down each point you made
first off i have no problem with what you said about tumblr because i dont know enough abt it to have any opinions on it
none of the people who make modern day cartoons are "obsessed" with sexuality and representation those are things they put in there cartoons and they dont take away from any of the actual story or plot and in some cases make them better
as for the 12 forever thing yeah that wasfucked up but thats one person thats like saying all white people are conservative because donald trump is conservative it just doesnt make sense
last of all its not ltbq its lgbtq or personally i prefer lgbtqia so if you want too talk abt something educate yourself on the topic first
one more thing name one show with only lgbt couples in modern animation i will wait
I have a theory that many of these tumblrina started off as food Joe she's that read a lot of yaoi and just fandom hop from one thing to another from deviantART to live journal to Tumblr to Twitter. I also think they started using the representation angle 5 years ago to get away with shoving there obsessions in front of everybody's face.
@@bee514 ruclips.net/video/lmIatf_XFlY/видео.html
I have a 12 year old brother and I asked him once why he doesn’t watch cartoons.
Aside from him growing up, he said that current-day cartoons aren’t appealing to him and his friends. They would rather play video games or watch RUclips meme videos than watch cartoons. Also, strategy games and Alt. History has filled that void for him (he plays Sid Meiser’s Civilization and old school Command & Conquer a lot).
The only cartoons he ever cared about were Spongebob Squarepants and Ed, Edd, and Eddy.
So there's still some hope for the future after all with kids like him!
Wait a 12 year old is into crusader kings and alternate history? Damn protect him with extreme ferocity kid is based
I don’t know if he would like any cartoon from the 1930s. Seriously, those cartoons can be dark. Look at “Swing You Sinners.”
Your kid sounds like me when I became that age.
Heck I'm still like that. Except I'm watching cartoons again. Wait 6 years and see if your kid will be trying to convince you to watch Gravity Falls and Infinity Train. And make sure you actually watch because you'll just receive a "you just don't get it mom" speech from them.
I remember hearing about shipping Sandy and Spongebob as a kid when truth or square came out back in the day, Ship rekt! 😆😆
....what happened to leave relationship story lines in the background and just having a kick ass show? I'm going back to watch Gargoyles
Hey Viper, how ya doin?! 😁❤
I think Trollhunters did this stuff well.
@@ThePreciseClimber Agreed
@@ThePreciseClimber I want to throw in Kim Possible in there too, because for the longest time it actually felt like Ron and Kim _weren't_ getting together until stuff happened over the course of the series.
And while I kind of started disliking the April/ Donatello pairing in the 2012 TMNT series because it felt like the series started spending a bit too much time on it, I absolutely loved Leonardo and Karai because of how it went from mutual interest to hate on Karai's part to friendship and finally the point where they're so comfortable with each other Karai just casually mentions "I may like you, but that doesn't mean I'll go easy on you!" during a training session. Or Leo teasing her when she's surprised that Raphael shows romantic interest in an alien salamander warrior... when she's a half-snake in a relationship with a turtle.
@@muhaoai4693 I always found that a bit weird, because I just couldn't imagine the Turtles in a Relationship.
In The Owl House, Amity's crush doesn't feel forced or strange in any way. So far it's been presented as nothing more than an innocent childhood crush. It's nothing new, nothing strange. It's honestly just adorable.
The Owl House isn't just a kids show, it's a family show. There is a ton of meta humour and other stuff targeted towards older kids and parents. Some of the jokes will fly over the kids' heads and won't affect them in any way, but they will still enjoy the show. The show is definitely still for kids, it's target audience is just wider than just for kids. This is nothing new or strange either.
It's a surprisingly good show. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't watched it.
I agree it's been a long time since I watch any good cable only watch I don't like motels or resorts the most of the time I'd be on the internet watching like anime and stuff.
This. I wonder if people in the comments have actually watched the show. Owl House is actually pretty decent and fun to watch when compared to other shows.
Ppl just wanna hate on the gays without saying it lets be real
Saying "People just want to hate on gays" is part of the problem.
If someone hates a show that has gay characters, people just assume that people hate gay people.
Then what? Those people shouldn't watch it? The creator only put gay characters to deflect criticism?
Even if they haven't seen the show, a good portion of their criticism still rings true to someone who has seen the show.
Owl House is a decent show. Though, I wouldn't say that it is ground breaking. Amity's crush of Luz felt natural, for the most part. It felt weird for Amity to be worried about Luz going to school changing their relationship (The first day - Episode 13). Episode 15 and 16 were great, but in Episode 17 where Amity was just full blown "Everything I see my crush, I lose all brain function" and that didn't seem in character for her.
I'm glad they did touch on it for the last two episodes. which were great, because it would've felt out of place; but we'll see how S2 goes. I still prefer Amphibia over it. Both aren't anything special and I would watch something better if it was available, but something decent to watch on the weekend.
@@POIUYTREWQ62 I was being a bit hyperbolic because of my frustration. Criticising a show with gay characters is fine. But comment sections like these are chock full of people expressing thinly-veiled homophobia. Like how it's sexual, innappropriate, 'unrealistic' (yeah i've even heard this one. Multiple times. In a show with witches and magic a teenager being gay/bi is the unrealistic part), etc etc.
I'm tired of people getting away with their homophobia by hiding behind 'criticism'. Not all criticism is valid or good.
But your criticism seems fair. Sorry if my initial statement made you feel unwelcome to say it.
Agree, stop with the shipping. Stop hijacking other people work and project to push your ships. Atleast Owl House was their own thing and not hijacking other people works.
I'm just a bit tired that a more masculine looking girl HAS to be a lesbian, it was a stereotype I thought we were trying to break.
EDIT: Also, at this point, how is it not fetishizashion of LGBT characters? Normal people don't get aroused when a hetero couple, so why so many people get so excited when two same sex characters just glance at each other? Makes me uncomfortable and I wonder if real gay couples sometime have problems with people fetishizing their orientation.
Well we're pretty much regressing at this point mainly in America while other country's are showing to be more progressive
They've turned male/female stereotypes into personalities.
Some fo them like it some of them hate it , that's how it always go.
It IS totally fetishizing!! to see every other fangirl pair two guyfriends together in a super forced way is just...immature
how about we have no LGBT characters?
lonely insecure weirdos are attracted to shipping cuz they can project themselves onto their favorite characters and imagine the life they wish they had.
Thats why they go batshit whenever something threatens their ships. they take it as a personal insult.
@@sigmacademy Look at all the shounen anime. All the main young teen boys characters are designed for the audience to self-insert. People forget that anime panders too, everything panders, it's called a target market. It's just things target different things. Yaoi and shoujo anime pander to shipping fangirls and fujoshi. I see no difference.
and that's the reason a lot of modern shows/anime sucks, they want to pander instead of making something new
@@hazelcrisp Save for the fact that smarter viewers know when they're pandered to and that ruins the experience.
Not everything "panders". That's too much of a generalization. Anti-SJWs may get cringy at times, but they have a bigger point than SJWs who can't stop whining about everything that doesn't go their way.
@@hazelcrisp clownfish tv is weed shit.
@@donutbevil9669 anti-SJW are equally as cringey. Almost everything gets called woke with them if it doesn't conform to the 'herd think'.
Clown tv thumbnailed a video about an employee being 'cancelled' (fired), then went on to explain how they were let go quietly with no public decloration. It's buzz words and click bait to get angry people more angry or find something to be angey about. Owl house had 3 short clips of minor hinting towards a crush. Throughout a whole season.. and they made a video about it. Idk how most of these people survived 90s cartoons or disney movies if romance gets them squeemish. The the inuendos were rampant!! And we had severe gatekeeping and ships back the too for multiple plateforms and media lol X'D.
And yes, everything does pander. It's the main arguement for anti-sjw, for companies to sell out to the 'real fans' or what they Think the majority is (them mostly). To do what they want, not what the creator wants. A character doesn't look a certain way, "omg cancel, so woke, so mad, soy", please... there's no "at times", they just are.
Pandering is why you see fan service in anime that wasn't there originally in the manga.
Hell, even deodorant commercials sexualize their stuff to sell. It is nothing new and what every single company uses to sell their stuff.
The "smarter viewers" are pretty daft if the only obvious pandering is the stuff they don't agree with.
Remember the last time a Disney show threw away story for a ship?
*cough* Star Vs *cough*
@Cyrese Parrish both of them
Don't remind me.
That's why I fear for the Owl House.
I can't go through four Seasons of obvious Ship-Bait again! The last Time was Horror!!!
Prom is the SJW version of beach episodes, they like to get off on their shipping relationships
okay whats worng with sjw?
@@bee514 they have alot of dark triad traits
And they often project what they do onto others.
They also tend to be losers who stay losers forever and try to tear down the successful to feel better among other deranged coping mechanisms.
@@bee514 Were you asleep since the 2000s? Ruined franchises, ruined entertainment industries, burning cities, social media getting censored and people getting their life ruined through doxxing and cancelling....
That feminist
@@bee514 they also get support from institutions that covered for peterfiles then they support them calling them maps on Twitter.
They want easily edited out LGBT characters for countries like China, not front and center LGBT moments that can’t be edited out.
Yeah that happens
@Jun3 Right, it's all China's fault. *eyeroll*
@@moonlitebrite9317 It is, actually. Homosexuality is not allowed to be portrayed in the People's Republic of China, or indeed in Iran and other generally Shari'a Law countries.
@@jakzine540 Even a supposedly moderate Muslim state such as Malaysia for that matter.... And even Russia....
@@chewxieyang4677 Precisely correct.
I just realised...
No prom and trying to revive their past...
Are these people the rejects at school?
Shipping has always been a part of fandoms. it diddnt become a problem till creators purposely started canonizing ships.
I mean, if the story originally called for certain characters to hook up, I don't see a problem with that. I think it's a problem when it's just writers caving in to social media demands.
I mean it can work but it has to fit with the show and characters
Kids don't watch cartoons anymore, they watch youtube.
I know this to be fact!
Indeed. And I'll add to that: Animation was never only for kids (even when leaving anime out of it). Just look at stuff like Heavy Metal and Fritz the Cat from way way back.
And while I don't mind diversity in cartoons, it becomes a problem when it becomes more about the diversity aspect of it all than the story it's supposed to tell.
I want my shows/movies to be fun, plain and simple.
I have genuinely seen better animations on RUclips & Newgrounds than a lot of the crap that airs on TV these days.
I can confirm that
True, my little brother refuses to watch cartoons and is always on RUclips and playing games...
Isn’t it a little creepy how the creators of these shows, who are adults, are so obsessed with the sexuality of cartoon children???
No more creepy than the anime creators doing the same
hwo si it wdie new flash caroomn charater art fix they dont eisx so th for they have real age
@LTNetjak younger focuses aren't that uncommon. But either way a minor is a child.
@LTNetjak child is to adult. Both of which are also cultural concepts. It's why pubescent and prepubescent exist(a pubescent person can still be a child depending on the culture). But in my opinion(cuz all of this is opinions in the end) you should probably use the legal standards of your personal residence as the defining factor to if a character is a minor. Regardless of the culture that made the character.
But that then creates a few problems because people practice other cultures outside of those cultures homes which conflict with laws and cultures of the area and we can't defend it in one case but chastise it in another. It's a horrifying moral slope really.
And all of this is assuming you consider sexualization of fictional characters a bad thing in the first place
Ahh I remember the days that i was overly concerned on who to ship on dexters lab
I remember the days when cartoons were amazing.
😂 same or Powerpuff girls
There was only 1 ship in dexter's laboratory. Dee-Dee and Mandark.
I ship Dexter's mom with Dexter's dad :P
@@lilchristuten7568 ships are not always made by the author, but by the fans. What fans like is when one of their Headcanons becomes canon
Bro, old cartoons were full of relationships, but they were all straight.
YHWH: ENOUGH! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
*Modern Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed.*
wow. so no one cares about writing good characters and storytelling. it's got to be all about your gender and identity. at the end of the day, 90% of people don't care!
American cartoons stopped being relavent when networks stopped airing Saturday morning shows and the after school shows. The market was clear. Now, not so much.
I feel like people are forgetting about all the romance from 2000's shows. You had people back in the day shipping Yukito and Touya when they were kids. Even things like Generator Rex, Ben 10, w.i.t.c.h were all kids show which had developed romance and shippers just like modern shows. It's just that it's more noticeable due to social media and kids back then were adults so they were more self-aware. Fans had shipping wars about Teen Titans about BeastBoy and Terra or Raven and Robin and Raven or Starfire. Winx Club even though it was awful forced all the girls into straight romances with little development. I used to ship Robstar when I was a kid. Nothing has changed in regards to shipping. It's just the vocalisation and rise of social media which makes shipping look different.
This.
Even in KND I always shipped Numbuh 1 and 362 but you can see in their interactions that they were still kids and acted like kids. I mean, the Owl House shipping is fine and all but the fans are the ones causing people to hate it since they are practically shoving the ship down our throats.
I'm used to it since I read fanfiction but I understand why most people hate that.
"Winx Club even though it was awful forced all the girls into straight romances with little development"
They could've developed the romances a little more slowly, but is it that hard to believe that five women in a group might be straight?
Is it so hard to believe that most friends might be straight? I'm bi, and that shouldn't even be a problem.
@@sombraelerizo Yes, don't you know? everyone is gay. Anyways, adults watching kids shows was always weird. That's why it wasn't mainstream. But these shippers want to become mainstream so bad.
Yeah whats the problem? I'm straight, most of my friends are straight. But I agree that some romances were a bit forced. And all the love triangles that happened in Season 4 were god awful. But Tecna and Timmy were cute and Musa and Riven actually had some substance because they were an unhealthy relationship. Shame they got back together in Season 7, ruined the damn thing.
What's wrong with American cartoon? From the beautiful art work of golden age Looney Tunes, ThunderCats, GI Joe, He-man, Care Bears, Transformers to the modern days lazy, ugly, deformed, SJW cartoons. Comparing to the beautiful art works of Japanese/Koren/Chinese animation, I no longer care for American cartoon.
Check out "Trollhunters: Tales of Arcadia" from Del Toro. It's the one bastion of quality in the west.
@@ThePreciseClimber Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012 was also pretty good (barring that one season when they spent quite a bit of time in a cabin in the woods).
Occasionally, there is a few good ones here & there like The Last Airbender, Young Justice, etc. However, most of the modern day American cartoon & its characters are ugly, deformed, full of SJW ideas, lack of proper story development, acts totally stupid. So for my long years of disappointment of American cartoon.....
Back then people see cartoons as violent/childish/sexual so cartoon companies focus on making live actions shows intead. And then suddenly when they went back to make cartoons they forgot how to
If you want to make LGBT characters, then that's fine, but do not make them into children cartoons.
Soooooo true!!!!! Little kids don't need to learn about the topic of sexuality!!
Children do not have the consent to have any kind of sexuality.
Exactly
That's the point
Kids are easily manipulated
@@stormgirl09 Okay then. I guess that means we'd have to get rid of straight couples in children's cartoons as well.
If you’re gonna have gay characters please do it right and don’t fuck it up.
Representation is a nice feeling one gets when they see a character that looks are are just like them in a media they enjoy. As a black man who enjoys anime, I get ecstatic when I see a black character. However, I treat that like a cherry on top. Yes, it's nice to see a black man in an anime but it's not a requirement for me to enjoy the anime. That being said, we are going through changes in the media where LGBT will now be token in every form of western entertainment. This isn't bad but there are areas where such themes are not wanted or needed. Take a look at Japan. Japan understands it's audience and what they would like to see. LGBT relationship will not show up in shounen anime (unless it's yuri) because it's targeted towards young teenage boys. Teenage boys do not car nor want to see two boys kissing or getting it on and they ARE the main consumers of anime. Trying to appeal to a small audience will only hurt the buisness.
when it comes about naturally it can be a good thing, but when you force it, then the characters are just artificial tokens that degrade and demean.
Yeah but even with that japanese people srs still some of the most homophobe people in the world. I have travel to japan several times and talked to people. And they told me that they view yuri and yaoi and all that alphabet crap as just entertaiment and fun. But in real life they dont aprove it. They are really great people.
Me im fine enough them just having an american character but im not asking for it. Heck when it just happens out of the blue it's fun like Texas Mack from the getter robo series or All might saying texas smash or one of the Speedwagon headquarters being located in my hometown of Dallas. There were those mexican characters in battle tendency but they were kind of boring to me since i already know hundreds of people that looked just like them, which is weird because youd think they'd make them look like caricatures
It's funny in Japan even though they acknowledge the lgbt groups in anime they still believe lgbt characters are only meant to be comic relief and to be laughed at and made fun of. They wont even allow lgbt people into positions of power in their Gov't
@@samaelrivera5209 Yeah japanese are the best
People really should just make their stuff without outside interjections. The people who will enjoy it will enjoy it, the people who don't won't. Non-writers trying to write someone else's story just ends up pissing off everyone involved.
This is almost exactly what I said in a comment of my own, just now
Yeah. Not everything is for everyone... Why try to make it so?
rahn45 totally agree with you, hell I’m an artist who’s writing my own little stories and fanfics that seem to have people on the edge of their seat (a response from a random person from Instagram who read my little stories) and I keep my stories simple and to the point to where I simply followed the flow of the narrative and just write what feels right and I surprise myself with the outcome and the funny thing is I’m not much of a writer😅
@@DonVigaDeFierro and to further add to that sentiment, the anime industry is admired by all walks of life all over the world yet that stuff is made homogeneously and for their own culture first before everyone else. Representation is a load of hooey, black people and hispanics love dragonball in droves infinitely more than other animes that actually have characters of their ethnicities, why, because the characters and presentation is what matters not caricatures.
@@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881 Well techincally anime is asian representation.
This show wasn't any good before the shipping, this is all they got to keep their cartoon afloat.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with showing these relationships on screen, the problem lies with people who obsess over it regardless of the actually quality of the relationship and how it furthers character and story and more so the idea of it, putting it at the forefront of the show in their mind (nothing wrong with that). It becomes a problem when they start to harass creators on the show or average people when they feel that the relationship between two fictional characters is threatened. There’s nothing wrong with shipping, however it seems that the shipping fandom is full of lunatics in their mid 20s who obsess over lgbt relationships between fictional characters in children cartoons
That's my opinion: in overall i don't see this lumity as forced, since i at least noticed it isn't sonething taken from the nothing, and it don't looks as if it is the central point of the show...
Yeah, I don't really think that the Owl House is actually showing a LGBT relationship but instead a one sided crush. Throughout the series Luz doesn't even notice it and just sees her as a friend. It's the shippers who are looking through a heart shaped lens at every single tiny interaction that are amplifying what actually happened. Alot of stuff like hand holding and linking arms is just what friends do. The actual main focus of the Grom episode was Luz's fear of upsetting her mother for lying about going to camp.
*Cough* *cough* Loud House *cough*
@@mig4868 The Loud House fandom... *shudders*
You're right, there is nothing wrong with shipping..
it's just the fans and media articles that make it toxic..
what also didn't sit well with me was the idea that Cartoons are no longer for kids because "ship wars bad, kids are getting groomed over tv shows"
When shows like Hey Arnold have been showing topics like Getting Mugged & Abusive Families..
for the past decades..
and I absolutely despise how Clownfish TV started the video like the Kids we're getting poisoned by the romantic themes In freaking Kids Shows..
(despite Mickey and Minnie Mouse being a couple since their first short in 1928) There's no sex scenes involved in these kids show relationships, and when there is, it's always a hinted wink at the adults watching..
(Ex: Spongebob Saying "Don't Drop The Soap" In Reference To Shower Rapes In Prison..)
so the point of saying that these shippings are ruining kid's minds when they are watching the show.. When most kids are not reading Cartoon Brew's opinion on gays..
is utter bull crap..
Clownfish made a stinker and thats the end of that..
thanks for being the voice of reasoning around these parts.
Western cartoons were awesome and told great stories back in the 90’s and 2000’s. Now they’ve gone political and lost their charm.
Politics ruins everything
@@theevermind agree
@War Wolf we need to search for fingerprints. Dot comes along carrying the late musician prince. No no I said fingerprints. Dot tosses prince out a window
What happened to the days of watching a show for the characters and plot while shipping was a bonus?
As a kid cartoon shows with action was what made my day like Ben 10, Secret Saturdays, Skyland, Dragon booster and totally spies
I have moved on to anime since
Ben couldn't really date anyone they were on the road unless he got with Gween. Just kidding I recal him getting a girlfriend in alien force.
@@icecreamhero2375 well original gwen wasn't going be related to him but be a classmate/friend
@@FierceDietyLink100 That certainly wouldn't make as much sense if they were still going around in the RV in earlier incarnations.
@Pedro Ortega Anime is full of lgbt shipping and lazy styles. if you were to actually see the show, you would eb suprised. the shipping is not a part of the story.
Remeber when two friends of the same sex could interact without anyone saying their gay for eachother?
Remember when people didn't jump down each others throats over stupid shit?
So far the owl house has handled this relativly well story wise.
Any anger over it seems to not be aimed at the show but the culture wich is shallow as hell.
@Darth Revan someone needs to learn to read.
I'll explain what I said then.
Hating something in a show not because the show did it poorly or because it's bad, but rather the culture around that subject, even when the show itself did not contribute to the toxicity of that culture, is shallow.
You got that?
Or should I simplify it more.
@Darth Revan I don't see any guns, or bombs, or war propaganda here. What show are you watching? Nazi Days starring War of the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse?
Also, how is a girl of a particular sexual orientation having a crush on another girl "cramming that culture war garbage"? If that's how the character is, then that's how the character is. Period.
Yo, parents and adults shipped me with any friend I had of the opposite gender for years since I was 11.
And people are really worried about cartoon characters building emotional/romantic connections?
Noellen Stevenson who did Netflix SheRa and the Prom episode is married to the Writer of Owl House who did the Prom epsiode.
...they must be culled.
"SSSHHHIIIINNNNEEEEE!!"
Really? Ugh now I don't know if I wanna watch the show
I have bad feeling after hearing that information.
Well... He's getting dumped when Noellen is done using him. 🙄
I see Luz/Amity no different than Marco/Star or Dipper/Wendy or any other in universe ship. Ironic that the last two were labeled ok because they were m/f. But were worse because Star was a butt to both her boyfriends and Dipper's crush was creepy.
Dipper's crush was understandable though, but I don't see how the first one is like the latter two.
We didn't have these problems in the past, WHEN SHOWS HAD A TARGET AUDIENCE. Nowadays everything has to be "for everyone", and they invite these deranged lunatics into their communities, and the expected results occur.
Agreed, I wish all companies just made rules saying no to this shit, or just fire and not hire these tumblr activists no more.
@@recatwc They really need to start putting their foot down with some of these SJW nutjobs and narcissists. Or start drawing the line somewhere.
Maddie B. Agreed, it's getting out of hand.
Geeky: Korra was older....
Me: Really? She didn't act like it till the very last season. But seriously, at this point, cartoons like Steven Universe were not made for children. They were made for adults with the mentality of children.
I remember finding Korra boring and unlikable found everybody else a lot more interesting like her Villains were more interesting than she was
@Al Dente but the last 2 seasons are great . yhea the first seasons is ehh and the second seasond meh depending in your taste but i feel like the last 2 really pushed things overall and had wveryyhing that was missing consequences, growth, and passion.
@Al Dente luckily, a trap most people sensed
@@TheSerg022 Korra does suffer from having good villains. Like i liked LOK and i cannot really argue anything about the villains thing. They had a lot going on compared to Korra. One of the weaknesses of the series was that they didn't spend enough time focusing on Korra's actual character. That might sound strange but a lot of her screen time is just her beating someone up or breaking shit. The rest is the awful Bolin Mako love triangle. They proved with that how inept they were at writing romance.
All in All they seemed too focused on the seasons plot and we never really got to spend time with Korra. Again, might seem odd considering we did spend a lot of time looking at her. Its just not the same as ATLA's journey where they stopped and lived every now and then. Having read the comics i met my greatest disappointment when they finally had a perfect setup for that kind of storytelling and they cut it short for a plot that could have waited.
A lot of stories seem afraid of letting things breathe and giving time to the characters over the "exciting plot parts" that they seem to think need constant attention. Sorry for the mini rant but it just makes me think of all these great stories ruined by such misconceptions.
@@MrSmilykid Season 3 completely nuked the world building...
This is why anime and manga are destroying Western comic books and cartoons. Anime always goes the extra mile to make sure that the character is an actual person more than a sexuality or a ship.
People can preach and virtue signal all they want about LGBT characters in their show but that doesn't mean the quality of the show will be heightened by it.
Rooster Teeths RWBY is a perfect example of this. Bumblebee is destroying the fandom. Fight me
I will fight. If someone proves ne that bumblebee is not destrying the fandom. What am I saying? Someone prove me that the franchise it self is still worth itn
Like little witch academy
Ok
Your a fool who doesn't understand how business work, and instead of it all the blame on the vocal minority on the internet.
The reason why comic books in the west suck because the companies don't care. They're not comic book companies anymore the multimedia companies. The comic books arev just a testing grounds for what characters can be made into TV shows, movies, for video games.
Because why make it a good comic that's only going to make a few millions, when they can make a movie that which makes anywhere between 500 million dollars to 1.2 billion.
@@5Chaor True
Bullshit. luz being bi is not part of her character. ironically, the owl house seems to be pretty popular
May I even remind people that EVEN in anime they don't have LGBTQ characters in a KIDS show, but they have them in a TEEN show. See the difference? Just saying.
there was Ouran High School Host Club where Haruhi’s dad is trans
The gap of what's a 'kids show' in Japan is also far greater than in America as well. Shonen for example is typically aimed for children and teens which is why their characters often fit into that age gap.
Yeah and most of the time is for fan service or to make a joke. Obiusly if the show is a yuri or yaoi centret show this would be irrelevant.
Even in teen shows those characters are purely for fun only and they're not being proud of it seriously
The west is trying too hard to become anime but they never will
I don't know, sailor moon was aimed to little girls and it didn't prevented to see haruka and michiru there....
I don't understand what's wrong with this.The creator can write whatever they want. I mean if the show does well that means people like it??
I'm a casual shipper, like I don't go crazy with ships and don't really have those otp. I'm pretty open to a lot of pairings. I just have fun with the idea of certain pairings and read fanfics on them and that's it. I don't go around fighting and arguing or worshipping them like the crazy obsess shippers. And I definitely don't go around demanding my ship to be canon or harass creators like some entitled bitch. At the end of the day, these characters are fictional. You have the right to daydream, but not the right to force others to think the same.
I respect you
I remember the prom at my school. It was a disaster. Someone spiked the punch. The bathrooms were full of kids doing weird shit. Two teachers got into a drunk driving incident. Not a night I would ever want to relive. The only appealing thing about prom episodes is seeing the characters in different outfits. That's it. If it's t a carrie situation proms in fiction are boring.
Plus, the Carrie prom has been redone twice, and once with an alternative event in the Carrie 2: The Rage? It's been done multiple times before, and everything else is just being derivative now. :/
Owl Prom's prom concept is actually pretty clever if you watch the episode. There's magic involved. :)
@@DrawciaGleam02 I seen the episode and I thought it was boring.
@@NakanoMiku-chan-z2m
Fighting a fear monster is boring???
@@DrawciaGleam02 yea when the fears are uninteresting like amitty's and 3/5 of luz's fears.
I remember the day when you could ship and all anyone cared about was if there was fanart/fanfics of their ship.
To be fair,people always evaluated how much narrative sense pairings made.
Though back then one just went "yeah its a crackship,whatever" instead of stalking the creator and threatening to cancel them with a twitter campaign.
"They should be talking about an Appa and Momo romance." Brian Konietzko
One of the things I look for when I start watching a new series is “are the creators projecting there own problems and beliefs onto the characters?”
And if I see a 7 year old talking about trans rights in the middle of Victorian England. I nope out of that show.
Mr PizzaCat says trans rights.
@@tomkatt8274 shut up
I am so happy growing up in the 70/80ies when it was all about sharing, friendship, courage, exploring, learning and curiosity.
Owl house has all of those things. The last episode literally had all of those things..except exploring I guess, since they stayed on school grounds.
The fact that sexual orientation is now the most important character trait is quite upsetting for me as a creator. Just got to face it when I announced a q&a for my webcomic and all people wanted to know was characters' exact ages (my art style conveys approximate age well enough) and sexualities. not ideologies/religions of the world, not magic system question - the shipping. And I realized I don't even fucking know their sexualities, they were so irrelevant to me when creating the story, even tho it is a romantic one. I just have to assign lables to them now.
This is why we watch ANIME not Cartoons ANIME completely different
I'm watching dragon maid and most of the main characters are gay. Its a really good show.
I mean many anime are made for kids and have romantic plots/subplots. I can't really speak for many having romances that break the heterosexual mold but imo romance is romance regardless of all of that.
and better
Love your profile pic. Guts is the man
this makes me want to make a cartoon show with talking points the left might deem as adverse just to spite cartoon twitter.
You know what I'm getting sick of seeing? The 'word' LGBTQ+ because at this point whenever it pops us it's usually just pandering or along those lines.
What I'm also getting sick of is the near obsession of shipping and making characters gay, and any sign of a growinly close friendship is now almost always seen as 'THIS CONFIRMES THEM AS GAY COUPLE! THIS VALIDATES MY SHIP!'
Seriously with The Owl House alone they had to get rid of someone during development because they were adamant at making Luz and Eda a gay couple! And the moment Luz and Amity started becoming friends IMMEDIATELY i saw people post I SHIP THEM! And I SUPPORT THIS SHIP! And at that point for those people this show only meant one thing to them, to validate their ship.
Wait hold up ppl actually wanted luz and eda. Isn't she um a bit old for her?
Sometimes I really wonder about the seeming obsession western creators have with lesbians. I mean, for all the talk of "inclusion" and "representation", you generally see like 15-20 lesbians for every gay male character. Almost every single comic Marvel was putting out had at least 2-3 lesbians in it for a couple years, and they would take great pains to point out that they were lesbians. Repeatedly. Sometimes on every other page. If they weren't showing it, they were having other characters talk about it and how amazing and awesome it was. If you go by the sheer number in media, you'd think like half the women on earth were lesbians or something.
I think lesbians are easier to be accepted because they are overly sexualized, idk if that makes sense. It also doesn’t make it okay
Agreed, I think they are trying to get back some of the straight male interest that is their core market. Unfortunately, it's become way aggressive, I agree!
@@stormyknight1370 lol I doubt that. They hate straight males over everything. Its been a looong time we see something made to appeal to straight males.
Ok
If the only thing the audience cares about on a show is the shipping, then they are focusing on the wrong things that matter in a story, either that or the show is doing a poor job of telling one.
Call it what it is guys: GROOMING. We need to keep this crap out of kids shows!
EDIT: just to clarify; I mean ANY kind of sexuality in what is supposed to be a kid's show. It just doesn't belong there. This blatant and it becomes very obvious that it is intentional grooming for Pedos.
There is nothing wrong with grooming, as in, styling someone's hair. Using "grooming" as a euphemism is what is wrong because that is not what grooming means.
@@LuigiTheMetal64 Grooming minors has been a term used for years. It's even in the dictionary now as "the action by a pedophile of preparing a child for a meeting, especially via an Internet chat room, with the intention of committing a sexual offense." as many would see in cases such as relating to what Epstein and his mistress were doing.
ShinigamiRyan South Park covered this heinous act years ago.
ShinigamiRyan I do not use dictionary changes since having that many definitions for a word will confuse language-speakers.
@@LuigiTheMetal64 While I somewhat agree vis-a-vis the alteration of language and would prefer the invention of a new term, "grooming" is the term which is in official and popular use. It is what it is.
They always scream "representation", but that community is like 4% of the population. So why on TV and other media are they about 40% of the characters? If you want true representation, why don't you want it for all the different communities?
Another problem with shipping is that it's rushed right into romance. Not enough time to build an actual friendship. In episode 12, Luz stole from Amity and almost got that girl's siblings killed. Now jump to 15 and 16, Amity is horn dogging for Luz.
Yeah... but you don't get that in the _LEGO NINJAGO: Masters of Spinjitzu, LEGO NINJAGO, LEGO Legends of CHIMA, LEGO NEXO Knights, LEGO Monkie Kid, Disney The Lion Guard, DreamWorks Dragons: Riders of Berk, DreamWorks Dragons: Defenders of Berk, DreamWorks Dragons: Race to the Edge, Nickelodeon Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Nickelodeon Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,_ or even in _DreamWorks She-Ra and the Princesses of Power_ animated T.V. shows of the 2010's and very early 2020's! Therefore, what is in my opinion, you don't see rushed and pervasive romantic relationships in modern animated T.V. shows that sell toys (i.e. the _LEGO NINJAGO_ animated T.V. series) or are aimed at a young children's audience (i.e. the _Disney The Lion Guard_ animated T.V. series). These are the modern animated T.V. shows that I actually like to watch there, as there are more action scenes and far less romantic relationshipping (to which I find cringe-worthy there!).
The owl house was literally canceled somethings had to be rushed
@@angelinaf.l2568 They could have worked the romance differently then. Instead of introducing them as rivals, they could have started out as friends and become closer as they spent more time together.
@@ThePrincessCH luz and amity went from rivals to friends to lovers. Some things had to be rushed because season 3 was cut short, lumity was always planned from the beginning
@@angelinaf.l2568 Given Disney's reputation, I feel like it wouldn't be as rushed if they had introduced them as friends first. We could see the progression of their relationship through their friendship while providing a more natural transition to the romantic stage.