I think i know why *Amara* herself has the mark. The Supernatural wiki calls her human form a vessel. So i think she's actually imprisoned in the bodies of the mark bearers. Kinda like a possession, but her control over the bearers are limited to driving them bloodthirsty and mad. So the spell might not actually removes the mark, but what restrains *Amara* from taking control and using her full power. As for Lucifer. Angels do have bodies, but not on earth.
That’s kinda my headcanon but mine is amara isn’t the full darkness but a fragment for that universe and every time a mark is created in a new universe the darkness gets fragmented more fragmented
@@matthiascerebri3315 She has no body of her own. When the spell is broken and all that black smoke came pouring out, that's her true form. But, the earth is special. Beings like her, god, even angels, and demons need humans to properly exist there. (magical creatures, I.E. Vampires and werewolves are part human.)
People may not agree but the mark is and if not one of the best parts of SPN. Don't get me wrong the first 5 seasons are good but just the story behind the mark of Cain gets me interested. Also love the story of how Jack came into play but wish they brought Jesse back from season 5 I believe it was. The little kid known as The "antichrist". I wish they brought him back to have maybe him and Jack go at it or something of the sort.
@@adamisaacpena yeah I we interview with him and his he said if he got the call he would come back and if did that he didn't come back. Even if it wasn't in the last season but I wish they had just brought him back for an episode of two just to catch up on what he was doing you know? But it is what it is you know man.
The real reason for the major problems is because continuity on the show is quite…. Bad. Especially when the various mystical rules come into play. I would suggest that each Mark for other universes is a necessary component to lock her out of that one. And then once the mark is gone in any one universe Amara gets out into that one and then is free to roam. There were 666 seals to Lucifers prison but you only needed to break 66 of them. Also, as a note, having the mark does seem to increase the physical abilities of even a human bearer. Marked but human Dean was able to unarmed trash Castiel.
IMO, another possible explanation for multiple universe marks is that it only allows access to that one universe. The 'real' universe could just be the first one that Amara is released into. Unless Amara was seen in other universes, I don't see why that couldn't be the case. Remember, it was Chuck that destroyed all the other universes, and it wasn't because of Amara.
I always kinda thought it was strange to have copies of The Mark, and not just one Mark specifically, it definitely makes sense that those copies would just be more opportunities for Amara to get out. Interesting that Chuck decided to let that happen, but I'm sure that he never even thought that it would be possible for anyone to remove the Mark. Great Video!! Love the lore on The Mark!
My theory about Dean not having the mark when he became a kid is that he still had the mark in some way but the mark would appear again when he became the same age when he first got the mark
I agree. Do we see any evidence of Amara going into another universe where the mark is still active? I don't remember seeing anything like that. It makes sense to me that each mark is a lock/key for each specific universe. While yes, Amara being trapped meant that all universes were safe from her, God would likely want a way to keep as many safe as possible if she got out.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, but for how Sister Agnes got visions of darkness and figured out how to undo the spell... I thought it meant she had visions FROM THE DARKNESS. Maybe Amara found a way to break the curse, but it could only be done from the other side of the lock, and she somehow got the information out. We've seen several times in the series that just because you're trapped doesn't mean you have no influence. Just means you have to act through someone/something else. And the multi-Marks in the multiverse, it could be as easy as God created the alternate universes to see how things can play out. So he gave them all the attributes, but they dont have the cosmic power. So the extra universe where Dean has the Mark, it's just a shadow. Just so Chuck doesn't miss anything, the Mark grants alternate Dean the powers of the Mark, but it just doesn't have the cosmic importance or ability to unlock anything.
so i wanna say before i watch this video is that i was personally upset in general at how the mark was portrayed but i do like it for the show's lore. they flipped the mark's ability to protect you from harm by reflecting the harm back into turning you into a demon that can't feel anything and can heal from everything.
Death didn't say that he couldn't, only that he wouldn't as the mark needed a living carrier. And unless Dean would pass the mark on to someone else to bare it, he refused to pop Dean off the board. While he is the Horsemen Death he still values life and enjoys seeing what comes from it, though humans annoy him to some degree with how arrogant they can get. His refusal to kill the mark barer come from the fact that he believes that Amara will just destroy everything, had he lived beyond that point I'm sure he would have enjoyed her company. As she was all yoga and palm trees and he was a connoisseur.
Regarding the ultimate universes, the Mark of Cain isn’t the seal to the darkness in those. And those aren’t the real Sam and Dean’s, but approximations of them. You can pretty much treat those not as true canon, but instead just sketches. That Mark of Cain allows for it to interact with that First Blade, which allows for them to kill most beings in THAT universe.
I think the other marks in other universes had all the same effects without the actual binding power, just so God could see the "story" play out. He is a writer and likes to experiment after all, but i think only the main universe has a functional mark. He did say that this universe, or at least this version of Sam and Dean were always his favourites EDIT: Yep i should've just finished the video first, I literally wrote what you said
I absolutely love your videos about Supernatural, do you think you could possibly do one about The Empty? I don’t remember if you already did, but if you didn’t it would be pretty cool in my opinion
I think the multiple marks can be explained more simply, Chuck sealed Amara outside of his creation space, and the alternate universes have marks because they also seal Amara out
I like to think that her visions of the darkness were actually the darkness talking to her telling her how to get rid of the mark and free her and other spells to cause destruction
20:58 I think the primary purpose of the mark was to keep the darkness away from the multiverse (gods creation) Looking at it this way means all universe under the multiverse has a mark that specifically keeps away the darkness this also means that removing the mark from a single universe will allow the darkness access to that specific universe alone and not the entire multiverse I believe in other to have access to the entire multiverse the darkness will need to remove the mark from every single existing universe
Amazing video! You are in a league of your own at this point because no one else is doing these full length videos on anything Supernatural anymore. With that being said, would you be interested in doing a video about Rowena? She was one of the greatest witches on television and they are not a lot of videos that tell her biography and how she Rose to such great power. I would also like to see a video done on Eve, the mother of monsters. She was another epic character. And, I would like one done on the darkness.
I think the First Blade is connected to the Mark because it was used for the first murder which is a form of destruction and darkness. That would provide a strong link to The Darkness and basically turn it into a holy Relic of the Darkness. And since this is really the only link it has in this universe besides the mark, that would explain why it is indestructible and why in the hands of the Mark bearer it becomes much more dangerous. IMO.
i always thought the mark was a extra-dimensional prison in and of itself, that amara existed WITHIN the mark, and her influence and lust for destruction is what causes the behaviours the bearer must deal with. Removing the mark, breaks open the door, and allows amara to escape. I think the reason amara had the same tat is because the writers thought they'd want to go one direction with it and then later decided that (whatever it was)--it was a dumb idea, so it went nowhere....cause there was nowhere GOOD to go with that element.
Here's a theory; It always felt weird to me that the containment spell could be used against God after he'd merged with Amara. Chuck having to work to seal Amara originally makes sense, but then having it be a spell that anyone could theoretically use against him, and leaving the knowledge just out there in the world... it feels off, along with the fact at the end there was a way for Chuck's powers to be absorbed by another entity without him wanting it to happen or knowing. So what if the spells and magic in the series aren't actively created by God (or Amara) but instead are from the same place as those primordial beings themselves. Smaller manifestations of the same deeper ruleset that meant there had to be creation and destruction and one couldn't be killed without dooming everything. (Or if you want to avoid the implications of another layer of reality, could say they a subconscious thing rather than actively choosing to make them that way). Chuck is creation, Amara is destruction, the spells in the series all involve destroying one thing to make another happen, breaking the normal rules by using a different set of rules, so kind of a mix of both, along with magic not being sentient but also responding to things like intent and commands (which would tie in a connection to the only other primordial being to show up, the Outside, which is sentient but doesn't want to be awake or aware). It would make a kind of sense for them themselves to be a concentrated manifestation of something, and for that same something to manifest in other smaller ways which clever people who know more than they should are able to tap into.
I’ve been watching Supernatural for the first time recently. We’re almost done with season 15. Love watching your videos. I don’t know what my hat size is, sorry
I think the mark of Cain cool concept but it doesn't ruin the story of Cain and Abel specifically like the look of jealousy of the better brother. First act of murder as sin, I get it makes Cain more sympathetic he was forced to. But the logic of why he would ever believe Lucifer when you know he's evil and corrupting. He has no power over who goes to heaven and has to quickly kill him for no reason. It's a classic difficult Winchester choice that dean especially can relate to. Even though dean wouldn't have killed his brother and find another way around it. It's a cool idea of the story of the first murder
I think another way to think of the alternative marks, is less a lock to her jail cell and more a lock to the door of that universe. So when the main timeline's mark was destroyed, she could enter that universe no problem, however, as the marks exist in other realities, she can't enter them. Because the marks are sill warding her off. Another way to think of it, is not that God sealed her in her own room, but locked the door to every room in the house and she's been stuck in the corridors waiting for a door to open.
Man I love this channel! Really great spn videos! I’d love if you made like a disappointing deaths in spn video or something cuz one of them for me would be Rufus randomly dying in that among us episode. Like so many shows do that kind of episode and don’t actually kill off my fav character 😢
I think the answer to the multiverse mark is in the shirts. The shirt that dean is wearing is the same one from Season 10 when he and Sam are hunting each other around the bunker. I think this is less another universe and one of the possibilities that could have happened. This scene is probably what would have happened had Cas not gotten to the bunker in time.
Maybe lucifer's eyes were red because of his time with the mark. I always assumed they were red from his time in the cage. Maybe luci's red eyes are equivalent to demon deans black eyes, just the angel verson.
You can tell up until s12 the continuity of the show was there was only 1 universe, and amara as well as the mark and the archangels were all made during that time, and them making a multiverse broke the show to an irreparable mess that contradicts itself way more than it had to
for the multiple marks of cain, its a bit simple, its similar to lucifers cage and the 66 seals, but instead of 66 out of 666 seals needing to be broken, its 1 mark out of billions of marks needing to be broken and whatever mark is broken is the universe where amara is freed
Never thought about the implications of that alternate mark, but I think your final explanation is probably correct: it's a copy God made to play out the "Cain & Abel" scenario. Just stumbled on this channel today, really liking it so far!
I personally think that the blade is linked to the mark because it was the first weapon used to kill anything by a being baring the mark (When Cain killed Able that was the first kill the mark ever had) I’m not 100% sure if in the show it says Lucifer killed anything when he had the mark, but I don’t think he did
What if the reason Death can't reap Dean whilst he bears the mark isn't because he can't do it, but because he knows the consequence if he does (Amara getting freed) and therefore won't?
The theory on the mark for me is that it’s more of a seal of staying out of that universe so it’s like a reverse cage instead of us being on the outside we’re on the inside and the darkness is on the outside
I think it makes sense to have the other marks in the multiverse be doorways into those universes. So, if someone removes the mark in a particular universe, Amara will go there.
Honestly, the final theory might've just been because Chuck wanted to study how the Mark corrupts the bearer, so he replicates the Mark and gives it to Cain or Dean so they can become tainted by it Then he studies how it affects them in order to understand it
I remember the dialogue that compared the mark to a lock.. but I always interpreted the mark to _be_ the Darkness itself. A representation of the Darkness to substitute Ammara's being with her nature. You can't destroy her. You can't lock her away anymore than you could Chuck.. but maybe you can disrupt her to keep her from unifying into Ammara the person rather than a general destructive universal force. That's why the mark is two lines underscored by one line.. another representation of Chuck and Ammara. That's why the first blade can kill most things. That's why death can't claim anyone linked to Ammara. That's why the mark dissapears when Amaarah forms or why she even needs to form in the first place. .. In my opinion.
I would like to see the first universe. Cause with the multiple universes and memories sam was having, those are all universes where the earth is more or less destroyed. The original archangels are the onky ones that were their to expercie the fight. All the others just had memories entrapped placed in them
I can answer the question about the multiple marks and how it works when removed. You see the mark of cain reacts in a way like a form of parasite in a way. Once it leaves it's first host to another, if left unchecked, it will leave a copy of itself to allow the original mark to influence the previous hosts of the mark. You see when cain transferred the mark to dean, what he did is pass on the mark of cain as the original, but left a copy of it on himself which allowed it to affect cain until he was put down by dean. You see all copies of the mark are like extensions of the originalto allow the original to affect the copies behavior in the same way as the original which means Amara in dean at the time still affected cain until he died.Amara stated that Amara was joined with dean once Cain transferred the mark to him. It is spoken about either in the first meeting with one another or the second meeting, butI am betting on the first....It has been awhile since I watched it, but my memory is good enough to remember most facts. So bottom line is when the mark was removed from Dean, they removed the original mark. And would remove the copies in total since once the mark left the host carrying the copy, they aren;'t able to receive the original again....consider it like a innoculation ofsorts after they were affected by it. I hope this answers another question SuperFanatural and other viewers reading this....Also before I end my dialogue on this, I will give you a brief summary to the answer on how I know about the copies of the mark disappearing. In the episode when god wanted to put her in the mark again, god explained that once someone was affected by the mark, they can't carry it again. It is a restriction that not even god canundermine...much like god trying to affect free will. Also to make it clear, the marks throughout the multiverse themselves are considered copies, but the latest carrier gets the original until pass on again. If the mark is removed in any universe from any dean, then it removes all other copies of the mark and returns the mark to Amara as she is released. Consider it like a house of cards. When the latest carrier holding the original mark who is also the pillar keeping that house of cards from knocking over to get knocked out, then all other cards fall as the house of cards are copies of the card. the limitation of god in the supernatural universe is he can only create things to a certain point. Trying to make multiple original marks of cain is impossible for him and he can only add copies. When dean in the multiverse or more than one was given the mark, they formed a bridge of the original itself. Once one of the deans had his removed, the other deans and other carriers of the marks lose there marks and amara is released as she receives the original mark back. It is a bit complicated, but I hope everyone can understand it now...sorry for the long winded explanation....I am a enthusiast tyoer with what I like talking about...hope you enjoyed my explanation I have on the inner workings of mark removal and the shared connection explanation I came up with.
a sneaky way to rationalize it is that multiverses aren't actually parallel spaces but rather 'linear' with the present universe. Alternate universes do not necessarily need to occur at the same time as the present universe and God himself definitely exists in a greater sort of linear time given that we know he can literally die in a single point of time in a universe. All the previous universes happen as such and the curse itself is continuously carried over from universe to universe until this one.
Anyone knows Fallen London? Reminds me a hell of a lot of Celestial or Correspondence. By the design both are inspired by Sumer, or general Mesopotamia. I think it's just amazing how the oldest lore of humanity still exists in little scraps, even when the theme is based around something that sproutet from it and became more dominant. You can basically go around a collect little easter eggs in every corner.
The Mark of Cain story line was my favorite. They should have drawn in out for a few seasons. Amara should have been the final boss. Its funny how Amaras Cage looks like something out of Hellraiser. Dean asks Meg what hell was like, and she said Hellraiser got it pretty close, haha. I imagine it is because the chains are mentioned several times in the Bible. Chains and a lake of fire along with constant suffering and death will not come. The story of Agnus comes from a similar story of a monk who traded his soul to write the history of man/bible overnight which ended up being written by Satan allegedly. The book is called the Codex Gigas and even incudes a self portrait of Satan. According to one version of a legend already recorded in the Middle Ages, the scribe was a monk who broke his monastic vows and was sentenced to be walled up alive. To escape death, he promised to create, in one night, a book to glorify the monastery forever, including all human knowledge. Near midnight, he became so desperate that he prayed to Lucifer to help him finish the book in exchange for his soul. The Devil completed the manuscript, and the monk added the Devil's picture as a tribute. In tests to recreate the work, it is estimated that reproducing only the calligraphy, without the illustrations or embellishments, would have taken twenty years of non-stop writing. I think this is where the idea of the Booked of the Damned came from.
I think by that point in the series run, that the writers may not have thought too deeply into how things would actually work. For instance, the copying of the mark and especially the part where Dean regressed to the state of a child and didn't have it. Those are two examples that made no sense if it was really as powerful as it seemed to be and really was used as a sort of lock. That's just my two cents.
I have no concrete evidence but my thought process was the mark kinda works like this. The whole point is to keep Amara out of creation. Once Chuck started making experimental branches of the universe they needed their own marks. To keep her out. Destroying the mark just releases her into that particular universe. Chuck has the ability to travel all of his creation freely, So i imagine Amara should be able to do so as well. The mark prevents her from doing so. There are some problems with it like why doesn’t chuck just go hide in one of the other universes? Well once Amara is in one universe shes not just going to rampantly destroy it without thought, shes smart enough to leave enough of it going long enough to find or manipulate people/demons/angels into opening rifts, hunting down that universe’s mark bearer and destroying their mark. Allowing her to enter that universe. Im which case I think she would (thematically) devour whatever universe she was in and entering the new one. Rinse and repeat until all of creation is back to a unified state of peace as is her goal.
I think the mark is a locked door into each universe. Chuck is able to travel into each universe because he isn't locked out. I think each mark is like the 66 seals for Amara because there must be one in each universe to lock her out as Chuck can't make a universe without including a way Amara can enter into.
My thoughts. The place in witch the Darkness/Amara is cast 2 is the original cage and seal that inspired the Lucifers cage, seal, and potentially the horseman rings/key. Lucifer was corrupted by the Mark as it had diminished his pureity and sense of virtue leading him to his prideful downfall. As for demons through out the show we learn that Lucifer can make them, Abbadon can make them, and hell itself can make them to a degree. We know that demons are essentially ghosts when we learn about Crowley's bones and what not, witch are nothing but disembodied spirits/souls, yet at the same time we also know that demons themselves don't possess a soul in the Plutas Auction House Demons don't have a soul of there own, or more particularly aren't considered. So I think what Amarra actually does through the mark is absorb the suol piece by piece till nothing but a demon remains. What Lucifer and Abbaddon do is chip away at the souls through torture. Now since there is only one Chuck and Amara and simply doubting Amarra was taken down by every version of every arch angel, any other mark we see throughout the Supernatural Multiverse contains a...stand in of sorts. Like another embodiment of Amara made by chuck that feels more like one of the many pagan gods we've seen throughout the series.
I really hate how Amara and Chuck turned out. Literaully two children without rules. One creating something and the other one just smacking it away saying"no" in a baby voice. So stupid.
Maybe when Amara and Chuck came into existence, Amara had a birthmark in the shape of the mark of Cain. And maybe Chuck used her birthmark to make a mark of Cain.
What i dont understand is that when Sam starts dreaming about the different universes, theres one where a Dean with the Mark is killing him. So if this Mark had been removed would there have been another Amara in that universe?
I wish they became a different kind of monster instead of a demon. Like a corrupted soul tainted with the mark of cain. A stained soul in a vessel changed to be the perfect soilder/warrior. Would have been cooler you can still have a eye color change. Personally i think a red iris with black eyes or fire red eyes like how the mark glows
I think the is a part of "DARKNESS" that god took away from his sister in order to seal(separate) away from creation and when the ritual is performed that part/mark returns to her and she can interact with creation, that's why it's on her. They call it a prison but it could very well be more like a wall and as you said the mark be a door.
18:29 think about tying a knot on purpose or by accident now think about trying to undo that knot especially if that thing was pulled tight and considering you are making a prison to hold a cosmic entity your going to want to make that thing pretty tight. When I get a takeaway and the Carrier bag has had its Handel’s tied I’m ripping that bag open over spending the time fiddling with the knot normally having to use my teeth because the knows so tight it would bend my fingernails back if I tried it by hand. Basically it’s a lot easier to bind something than it is to undo it without damaging the container which in supernatural’s case would be the world god wants to not destroy....yet.
My theory is that Death could kill dean when he had the mark but said that he couldn't because if dean truly died the mark would no longer be trapping amara and (it has been a while since I watched it) from what I remember of that scene death seemed idk is scared is the right word but very much worried about what would happen if she got out. I think he could have killed dean but told dean what he needed to hear told him that he couldn't so dean would keep it on his arm
You are wrong. Amara said it herself that she is the mark The Mark is not a prison but Amara's consciousnesses. Amara is non existence and as such integrating it's conscioness into existence(a host created by God) puts her to sleep
Well I always considered the checks and balances of the supernatural lore. When god and his sister were created a stronger being had to be there (death). Nothingness was probably created as well or had thought when something as the opposite of it was born (god and his sister) Weird train of thought but I’m high
Cain came after the mark. So Amara had 0 affinity to him although he had it for centuries. Lucifer was always an asshole, the mark just speed up things. The lack of detail is because the lore was constantly retconed. Like Leviathan existed before angels or death to be just as old as god.
@@Grayson-Winchester it’s established god tried creating stuff when amara was around and that she kept destroying everything. Making some leaps you could argue Chuck had created the leviathans back when amara was still around and that between her and the leviathans (but mostly her) everything was destroyed leading to chuck locking both away. It’s not perfect but considering I just pulled it out of my ass I’d say it could work.
since the mark kind of requires the darkness as a ingredient, i can't imagine god would willfully create a copy of the mark with another darkness, which is what he would of had to of done unless the removal spell removes all marks at once which is the only logical conclusion , that the spell removes all marks at once and the marks can cross realities/multiverses and the one darknesss is linked to all of them. God wouldn't willfully create more vulnerabilities just to expirament, the darkness is his worst enemy.
Huh, all this time I thought the mark was linked to amara only. Turns out it can be linked to anyone who has the containment spell used on them. Now I'm just thinking about who'd I'd use the spell on and whether or not it would be worth it to carry the mark to keep that someone imprisoned, even knowing there's a chance it could turn me into the thing I hate the most. Assuming I couldn't kill said someone of course.
Or look at it like this Chuck was going around making all these alternate universes and he gave copies of the mark and Chuck has been known to abandon these universes so let's say in one Universe Amara got out of her prison in that universe that he abandons so what if she destroys that universe and goes on a destruction Bender sure it's a massive inconvenience that that Universe was destroyed but you know he abandoned it cuz he got bored so he'll just move on to another one and he'll deal with the problem later but unfortunately she got out in the main Universe the one that he was still interested in
I think i know why *Amara* herself has the mark. The Supernatural wiki calls her human form a vessel. So i think she's actually imprisoned in the bodies of the mark bearers.
Kinda like a possession, but her control over the bearers are limited to driving them bloodthirsty and mad.
So the spell might not actually removes the mark, but what restrains *Amara* from taking control and using her full power. As for Lucifer. Angels do have bodies, but not on earth.
OMG! This kind makes sense.
That’s kinda my headcanon but mine is amara isn’t the full darkness but a fragment for that universe and every time a mark is created in a new universe the darkness gets fragmented more fragmented
But does this mean that she couldnt have her own body ever, and that God had to possess someone?
@@matthiascerebri3315 She probably does have a real form, but she needs a vessel because it's too vast.
@@matthiascerebri3315 She has no body of her own. When the spell is broken and all that black smoke came pouring out, that's her true form. But, the earth is special. Beings like her, god, even angels, and demons need humans to properly exist there. (magical creatures, I.E. Vampires and werewolves are part human.)
The Mark is such a cool part of SPN lore
The Mark is my favorite part of SPN period.
People may not agree but the mark is and if not one of the best parts of SPN. Don't get me wrong the first 5 seasons are good but just the story behind the mark of Cain gets me interested. Also love the story of how Jack came into play but wish they brought Jesse back from season 5 I believe it was. The little kid known as The "antichrist". I wish they brought him back to have maybe him and Jack go at it or something of the sort.
Agreed.
@@erichauser2017the original kid was so down for it too.
@@adamisaacpena yeah I we interview with him and his he said if he got the call he would come back and if did that he didn't come back. Even if it wasn't in the last season but I wish they had just brought him back for an episode of two just to catch up on what he was doing you know? But it is what it is you know man.
The real reason for the major problems is because continuity on the show is quite…. Bad. Especially when the various mystical rules come into play.
I would suggest that each Mark for other universes is a necessary component to lock her out of that one. And then once the mark is gone in any one universe Amara gets out into that one and then is free to roam.
There were 666 seals to Lucifers prison but you only needed to break 66 of them.
Also, as a note, having the mark does seem to increase the physical abilities of even a human bearer. Marked but human Dean was able to unarmed trash Castiel.
Bro, I want you to know that I love hearing you speculate on the magical science behind Supernatural.
IMO, another possible explanation for multiple universe marks is that it only allows access to that one universe. The 'real' universe could just be the first one that Amara is released into. Unless Amara was seen in other universes, I don't see why that couldn't be the case. Remember, it was Chuck that destroyed all the other universes, and it wasn't because of Amara.
I always kinda thought it was strange to have copies of The Mark, and not just one Mark specifically, it definitely makes sense that those copies would just be more opportunities for Amara to get out. Interesting that Chuck decided to let that happen, but I'm sure that he never even thought that it would be possible for anyone to remove the Mark.
Great Video!! Love the lore on The Mark!
My theory about Dean not having the mark when he became a kid is that he still had the mark in some way but the mark would appear again when he became the same age when he first got the mark
I think the multiple marks means that in whichever “universe” the mark gets removed is the universe in which Amara is released???
I agree. Do we see any evidence of Amara going into another universe where the mark is still active? I don't remember seeing anything like that.
It makes sense to me that each mark is a lock/key for each specific universe. While yes, Amara being trapped meant that all universes were safe from her, God would likely want a way to keep as many safe as possible if she got out.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, but for how Sister Agnes got visions of darkness and figured out how to undo the spell... I thought it meant she had visions FROM THE DARKNESS. Maybe Amara found a way to break the curse, but it could only be done from the other side of the lock, and she somehow got the information out. We've seen several times in the series that just because you're trapped doesn't mean you have no influence. Just means you have to act through someone/something else.
And the multi-Marks in the multiverse, it could be as easy as God created the alternate universes to see how things can play out. So he gave them all the attributes, but they dont have the cosmic power. So the extra universe where Dean has the Mark, it's just a shadow. Just so Chuck doesn't miss anything, the Mark grants alternate Dean the powers of the Mark, but it just doesn't have the cosmic importance or ability to unlock anything.
Yeah she definitely got that information from the darkness, Amara is connected to the entire universe.
so i wanna say before i watch this video is that i was personally upset in general at how the mark was portrayed but i do like it for the show's lore. they flipped the mark's ability to protect you from harm by reflecting the harm back into turning you into a demon that can't feel anything and can heal from everything.
Death didn't say that he couldn't, only that he wouldn't as the mark needed a living carrier. And unless Dean would pass the mark on to someone else to bare it, he refused to pop Dean off the board. While he is the Horsemen Death he still values life and enjoys seeing what comes from it, though humans annoy him to some degree with how arrogant they can get. His refusal to kill the mark barer come from the fact that he believes that Amara will just destroy everything, had he lived beyond that point I'm sure he would have enjoyed her company. As she was all yoga and palm trees and he was a connoisseur.
Regarding the ultimate universes, the Mark of Cain isn’t the seal to the darkness in those. And those aren’t the real Sam and Dean’s, but approximations of them. You can pretty much treat those not as true canon, but instead just sketches. That Mark of Cain allows for it to interact with that First Blade, which allows for them to kill most beings in THAT universe.
I think the other marks in other universes had all the same effects without the actual binding power, just so God could see the "story" play out.
He is a writer and likes to experiment after all, but i think only the main universe has a functional mark. He did say that this universe, or at least this version of Sam and Dean were always his favourites
EDIT: Yep i should've just finished the video first, I literally wrote what you said
man i been waiting a long time for a channel that talks about Supernatural like this i always wanted to learn more about the show great vids my man
Please keep going. I always look forward to watching your video's!
I absolutely love your videos about Supernatural, do you think you could possibly do one about The Empty? I don’t remember if you already did, but if you didn’t it would be pretty cool in my opinion
I think the multiple marks can be explained more simply, Chuck sealed Amara outside of his creation space, and the alternate universes have marks because they also seal Amara out
Please keep posting videos. I love this kind of stuff!
I like to think that her visions of the darkness were actually the darkness talking to her telling her how to get rid of the mark and free her and other spells to cause destruction
"...Cain was THE most murderous murderer to ever murder."
Nailed it like the Romans. I love that phrase 😂😂😂😂😂
When the king of hell prays to god when he sees it u know that dhit is dark af
I’m never here this early! Love the vids keep them up!
20:58
I think the primary purpose of the mark was to keep the darkness away from the multiverse (gods creation)
Looking at it this way means all universe under the multiverse has a mark that specifically keeps away the darkness
this also means that removing the mark from a single universe will allow the darkness access to that specific universe alone and not the entire multiverse
I believe in other to have access to the entire multiverse the darkness will need to remove the mark from every single existing universe
Amazing video! You are in a league of your own at this point because no one else is doing these full length videos on anything Supernatural anymore.
With that being said, would you be interested in doing a video about Rowena? She was one of the greatest witches on television and they are not a lot of videos that tell her biography and how she Rose to such great power.
I would also like to see a video done on Eve, the mother of monsters. She was another epic character. And, I would like one done on the darkness.
Hes done one video on eve and talks about her in the leviathon video as well
I really like these videos, Your really good at explaing things! :D
I think the First Blade is connected to the Mark because it was used for the first murder which is a form of destruction and darkness. That would provide a strong link to The Darkness and basically turn it into a holy Relic of the Darkness. And since this is really the only link it has in this universe besides the mark, that would explain why it is indestructible and why in the hands of the Mark bearer it becomes much more dangerous. IMO.
i always thought the mark was a extra-dimensional prison in and of itself, that amara existed WITHIN the mark, and her influence and lust for destruction is what causes the behaviours the bearer must deal with. Removing the mark, breaks open the door, and allows amara to escape. I think the reason amara had the same tat is because the writers thought they'd want to go one direction with it and then later decided that (whatever it was)--it was a dumb idea, so it went nowhere....cause there was nowhere GOOD to go with that element.
Here's a theory;
It always felt weird to me that the containment spell could be used against God after he'd merged with Amara. Chuck having to work to seal Amara originally makes sense, but then having it be a spell that anyone could theoretically use against him, and leaving the knowledge just out there in the world... it feels off, along with the fact at the end there was a way for Chuck's powers to be absorbed by another entity without him wanting it to happen or knowing.
So what if the spells and magic in the series aren't actively created by God (or Amara) but instead are from the same place as those primordial beings themselves. Smaller manifestations of the same deeper ruleset that meant there had to be creation and destruction and one couldn't be killed without dooming everything. (Or if you want to avoid the implications of another layer of reality, could say they a subconscious thing rather than actively choosing to make them that way).
Chuck is creation, Amara is destruction, the spells in the series all involve destroying one thing to make another happen, breaking the normal rules by using a different set of rules, so kind of a mix of both, along with magic not being sentient but also responding to things like intent and commands (which would tie in a connection to the only other primordial being to show up, the Outside, which is sentient but doesn't want to be awake or aware). It would make a kind of sense for them themselves to be a concentrated manifestation of something, and for that same something to manifest in other smaller ways which clever people who know more than they should are able to tap into.
19:55 YES thank you for touching on in this paradox xD Glad I wasn't the only one to think about all of those questions.
The mark is a brand not just on the body but on the soul. You can't get rid of it even if you shed your body and get a new one
W vid, your videos have inspired me to watch it finally, I always put it up for some other time, AND NOW IT'S THAT TIME, I'm going to watch it!
I’ve been watching Supernatural for the first time recently. We’re almost done with season 15. Love watching your videos. I don’t know what my hat size is, sorry
the alternate dean had the mark because it's an alternate timeline that NEVER came to be...you're overthinking it
Happy to get a thumbs up in early, your videos are really well researched and I love your theory crafting
I think the mark of Cain cool concept but it doesn't ruin the story of Cain and Abel specifically like the look of jealousy of the better brother. First act of murder as sin, I get it makes Cain more sympathetic he was forced to. But the logic of why he would ever believe Lucifer when you know he's evil and corrupting. He has no power over who goes to heaven and has to quickly kill him for no reason. It's a classic difficult Winchester choice that dean especially can relate to. Even though dean wouldn't have killed his brother and find another way around it. It's a cool idea of the story of the first murder
I think another way to think of the alternative marks, is less a lock to her jail cell and more a lock to the door of that universe. So when the main timeline's mark was destroyed, she could enter that universe no problem, however, as the marks exist in other realities, she can't enter them. Because the marks are sill warding her off. Another way to think of it, is not that God sealed her in her own room, but locked the door to every room in the house and she's been stuck in the corridors waiting for a door to open.
Man I love this channel! Really great spn videos! I’d love if you made like a disappointing deaths in spn video or something cuz one of them for me would be Rufus randomly dying in that among us episode. Like so many shows do that kind of episode and don’t actually kill off my fav character 😢
Lassie being cain is definitely i did not expect
I think the answer to the multiverse mark is in the shirts.
The shirt that dean is wearing is the same one from
Season 10 when he and Sam are hunting each other around the bunker.
I think this is less another universe and one of the possibilities that could have happened. This scene is probably what would have happened had Cas not gotten to the bunker in time.
Crowley making the sign of the cross is hilarious 😂😂😂
Death didn't say he can't kill the Mark bearer, he said he won't unless the Mark would be transferred to another in order to keep the lock intact
I love Timothy Omundsons portrayal of cain.
Maybe lucifer's eyes were red because of his time with the mark. I always assumed they were red from his time in the cage. Maybe luci's red eyes are equivalent to demon deans black eyes, just the angel verson.
You can tell up until s12 the continuity of the show was there was only 1 universe, and amara as well as the mark and the archangels were all made during that time, and them making a multiverse broke the show to an irreparable mess that contradicts itself way more than it had to
It would be cool if you made a theory about how Chuck had power in the empty
for the multiple marks of cain, its a bit simple, its similar to lucifers cage and the 66 seals, but instead of 66 out of 666 seals needing to be broken, its 1 mark out of billions of marks needing to be broken and whatever mark is broken is the universe where amara is freed
The Way you described it the mark sounds more like a key then i lock
Never thought about the implications of that alternate mark, but I think your final explanation is probably correct: it's a copy God made to play out the "Cain & Abel" scenario.
Just stumbled on this channel today, really liking it so far!
What do I think? I think you put more thought into the lore for the mark than the writers 😂😂
I personally think that the blade is linked to the mark because it was the first weapon used to kill anything by a being baring the mark (When Cain killed Able that was the first kill the mark ever had) I’m not 100% sure if in the show it says Lucifer killed anything when he had the mark, but I don’t think he did
10:30 Incase Dean couldn't finish the job.
My favorite arch of the show.
Dagger, not shortsword.
It's possible that Lucifer retained the mark on his angelic form, in which case he wouldn't have it on his host.
If anyone's heard of the musical album American Murder Song You'll hear the Mark Of Cain often.
What if the reason Death can't reap Dean whilst he bears the mark isn't because he can't do it, but because he knows the consequence if he does (Amara getting freed) and therefore won't?
I just discovered your channel, instant subscribe.
This Truly was an Awesome Video for The Mark of Cain.
The theory on the mark for me is that it’s more of a seal of staying out of that universe so it’s like a reverse cage instead of us being on the outside we’re on the inside and the darkness is on the outside
I think it makes sense to have the other marks in the multiverse be doorways into those universes. So, if someone removes the mark in a particular universe, Amara will go there.
Honestly, the final theory might've just been because Chuck wanted to study how the Mark corrupts the bearer, so he replicates the Mark and gives it to Cain or Dean so they can become tainted by it
Then he studies how it affects them in order to understand it
I remember the dialogue that compared the mark to a lock.. but I always interpreted the mark to _be_ the Darkness itself. A representation of the Darkness to substitute Ammara's being with her nature. You can't destroy her. You can't lock her away anymore than you could Chuck.. but maybe you can disrupt her to keep her from unifying into Ammara the person rather than a general destructive universal force.
That's why the mark is two lines underscored by one line.. another representation of Chuck and Ammara. That's why the first blade can kill most things. That's why death can't claim anyone linked to Ammara. That's why the mark dissapears when Amaarah forms or why she even needs to form in the first place. .. In my opinion.
I would like to see the first universe. Cause with the multiple universes and memories sam was having, those are all universes where the earth is more or less destroyed. The original archangels are the onky ones that were their to expercie the fight. All the others just had memories entrapped placed in them
I can answer the question about the multiple marks and how it works when removed. You see the mark of cain reacts in a way like a form of parasite in a way. Once it leaves it's first host to another, if left unchecked, it will leave a copy of itself to allow the original mark to influence the previous hosts of the mark. You see when cain transferred the mark to dean, what he did is pass on the mark of cain as the original, but left a copy of it on himself which allowed it to affect cain until he was put down by dean. You see all copies of the mark are like extensions of the originalto allow the original to affect the copies behavior in the same way as the original which means Amara in dean at the time still affected cain until he died.Amara stated that Amara was joined with dean once Cain transferred the mark to him. It is spoken about either in the first meeting with one another or the second meeting, butI am betting on the first....It has been awhile since I watched it, but my memory is good enough to remember most facts. So bottom line is when the mark was removed from Dean, they removed the original mark. And would remove the copies in total since once the mark left the host carrying the copy, they aren;'t able to receive the original again....consider it like a innoculation ofsorts after they were affected by it. I hope this answers another question SuperFanatural and other viewers reading this....Also before I end my dialogue on this, I will give you a brief summary to the answer on how I know about the copies of the mark disappearing. In the episode when god wanted to put her in the mark again, god explained that once someone was affected by the mark, they can't carry it again. It is a restriction that not even god canundermine...much like god trying to affect free will. Also to make it clear, the marks throughout the multiverse themselves are considered copies, but the latest carrier gets the original until pass on again. If the mark is removed in any universe from any dean, then it removes all other copies of the mark and returns the mark to Amara as she is released. Consider it like a house of cards. When the latest carrier holding the original mark who is also the pillar keeping that house of cards from knocking over to get knocked out, then all other cards fall as the house of cards are copies of the card. the limitation of god in the supernatural universe is he can only create things to a certain point. Trying to make multiple original marks of cain is impossible for him and he can only add copies. When dean in the multiverse or more than one was given the mark, they formed a bridge of the original itself. Once one of the deans had his removed, the other deans and other carriers of the marks lose there marks and amara is released as she receives the original mark back. It is a bit complicated, but I hope everyone can understand it now...sorry for the long winded explanation....I am a enthusiast tyoer with what I like talking about...hope you enjoyed my explanation I have on the inner workings of mark removal and the shared connection explanation I came up with.
a sneaky way to rationalize it is that multiverses aren't actually parallel spaces but rather 'linear' with the present universe. Alternate universes do not necessarily need to occur at the same time as the present universe and God himself definitely exists in a greater sort of linear time given that we know he can literally die in a single point of time in a universe. All the previous universes happen as such and the curse itself is continuously carried over from universe to universe until this one.
Anyone knows Fallen London?
Reminds me a hell of a lot of Celestial or Correspondence.
By the design both are inspired by Sumer, or general Mesopotamia.
I think it's just amazing how the oldest lore of humanity still exists in little scraps, even when the theme is based around something that sproutet from it and became more dominant.
You can basically go around a collect little easter eggs in every corner.
The Mark of Cain story line was my favorite. They should have drawn in out for a few seasons. Amara should have been the final boss. Its funny how Amaras Cage looks like something out of Hellraiser. Dean asks Meg what hell was like, and she said Hellraiser got it pretty close, haha. I imagine it is because the chains are mentioned several times in the Bible. Chains and a lake of fire along with constant suffering and death will not come. The story of Agnus comes from a similar story of a monk who traded his soul to write the history of man/bible overnight which ended up being written by Satan allegedly. The book is called the Codex Gigas and even incudes a self portrait of Satan. According to one version of a legend already recorded in the Middle Ages, the scribe was a monk who broke his monastic vows and was sentenced to be walled up alive. To escape death, he promised to create, in one night, a book to glorify the monastery forever, including all human knowledge. Near midnight, he became so desperate that he prayed to Lucifer to help him finish the book in exchange for his soul. The Devil completed the manuscript, and the monk added the Devil's picture as a tribute. In tests to recreate the work, it is estimated that reproducing only the calligraphy, without the illustrations or embellishments, would have taken twenty years of non-stop writing. I think this is where the idea of the Booked of the Damned came from.
i imagine the mark on amara is like a keyhole and the bearers have "keys"
I think by that point in the series run, that the writers may not have thought too deeply into how things would actually work. For instance, the copying of the mark and especially the part where Dean regressed to the state of a child and didn't have it. Those are two examples that made no sense if it was really as powerful as it seemed to be and really was used as a sort of lock. That's just my two cents.
My favorite storyline from the later seasons is even got the mark tattooed on my arm
it is not tattoo-like, it is a scar on your soul so strong it manifests as a physical scar.
I have no concrete evidence but my thought process was the mark kinda works like this.
The whole point is to keep Amara out of creation. Once Chuck started making experimental branches of the universe they needed their own marks. To keep her out. Destroying the mark just releases her into that particular universe.
Chuck has the ability to travel all of his creation freely, So i imagine Amara should be able to do so as well. The mark prevents her from doing so.
There are some problems with it like why doesn’t chuck just go hide in one of the other universes? Well once Amara is in one universe shes not just going to rampantly destroy it without thought, shes smart enough to leave enough of it going long enough to find or manipulate people/demons/angels into opening rifts, hunting down that universe’s mark bearer and destroying their mark. Allowing her to enter that universe. Im which case I think she would (thematically) devour whatever universe she was in and entering the new one. Rinse and repeat until all of creation is back to a unified state of peace as is her goal.
I think the mark is a locked door into each universe. Chuck is able to travel into each universe because he isn't locked out. I think each mark is like the 66 seals for Amara because there must be one in each universe to lock her out as Chuck can't make a universe without including a way Amara can enter into.
My thoughts. The place in witch the Darkness/Amara is cast 2 is the original cage and seal that inspired the Lucifers cage, seal, and potentially the horseman rings/key.
Lucifer was corrupted by the Mark as it had diminished his pureity and sense of virtue leading him to his prideful downfall.
As for demons through out the show we learn that Lucifer can make them, Abbadon can make them, and hell itself can make them to a degree.
We know that demons are essentially ghosts when we learn about Crowley's bones and what not, witch are nothing but disembodied spirits/souls, yet at the same time we also know that demons themselves don't possess a soul in the Plutas Auction House Demons don't have a soul of there own, or more particularly aren't considered.
So I think what Amarra actually does through the mark is absorb the suol piece by piece till nothing but a demon remains. What Lucifer and Abbaddon do is chip away at the souls through torture.
Now since there is only one Chuck and Amara and simply doubting Amarra was taken down by every version of every arch angel, any other mark we see throughout the Supernatural Multiverse contains a...stand in of sorts. Like another embodiment of Amara made by chuck that feels more like one of the many pagan gods we've seen throughout the series.
You MAY NOT harm Cain
The one thing that always got me was chuck being God and him having a sister
My idea for the for the blade and the mark being tied is that it was the first ever murder and it tied it to the first ever act of darkness
I really hate how Amara and Chuck turned out. Literaully two children without rules. One creating something and the other one just smacking it away saying"no" in a baby voice. So stupid.
Unless each mark is just a new link in a chain, so regardless of how many links there are, just by breaking one, the whole thing comes down.
Maybe when Amara and Chuck came into existence, Amara had a birthmark in the shape of the mark of Cain. And maybe Chuck used her birthmark to make a mark of Cain.
It's not that Death can't kill him but he refused to do it as once he do that the force that Mark was sealing would be released.
That thing is hilariously overpowered.
What i dont understand is that when Sam starts dreaming about the different universes, theres one where a Dean with the Mark is killing him. So if this Mark had been removed would there have been another Amara in that universe?
I wish they became a different kind of monster instead of a demon. Like a corrupted soul tainted with the mark of cain. A stained soul in a vessel changed to be the perfect soilder/warrior. Would have been cooler you can still have a eye color change. Personally i think a red iris with black eyes or fire red eyes like how the mark glows
I think the is a part of "DARKNESS" that god took away from his sister in order to seal(separate) away from creation and when the ritual is performed that part/mark returns to her and she can interact with creation, that's why it's on her. They call it a prison but it could very well be more like a wall and as you said the mark be a door.
18:29 think about tying a knot on purpose or by accident now think about trying to undo that knot especially if that thing was pulled tight and considering you are making a prison to hold a cosmic entity your going to want to make that thing pretty tight.
When I get a takeaway and the Carrier bag has had its Handel’s tied I’m ripping that bag open over spending the time fiddling with the knot normally having to use my teeth because the knows so tight it would bend my fingernails back if I tried it by hand.
Basically it’s a lot easier to bind something than it is to undo it without damaging the container which in supernatural’s case would be the world god wants to not destroy....yet.
8:00 I can barely hear that sick ass line
My theory is that Death could kill dean when he had the mark but said that he couldn't because if dean truly died the mark would no longer be trapping amara and (it has been a while since I watched it) from what I remember of that scene death seemed idk is scared is the right word but very much worried about what would happen if she got out. I think he could have killed dean but told dean what he needed to hear told him that he couldn't so dean would keep it on his arm
You are wrong. Amara said it herself that she is the mark
The Mark is not a prison but Amara's consciousnesses.
Amara is non existence and as such integrating it's conscioness into existence(a host created by God) puts her to sleep
I’m curious if the mark will make you strong enough to let you go toe to toe with Chuck in combat.
I think the Mark of Cain amplifies the negative traits of a person
Now we know the Leviathans were useful for something...sealing away Amara
never got why Chuck didnt just bare the mark.....
Well I always considered the checks and balances of the supernatural lore. When god and his sister were created a stronger being had to be there (death). Nothingness was probably created as well or had thought when something as the opposite of it was born (god and his sister)
Weird train of thought but I’m high
God AKA Chuck. Lmao, are you there, Chuck? It's me, Margaret.
I think the writers said F it on that last one.
Cain came after the mark. So Amara had 0 affinity to him although he had it for centuries. Lucifer was always an asshole, the mark just speed up things.
The lack of detail is because the lore was constantly retconed. Like Leviathan existed before angels or death to be just as old as god.
I think the leviathan origin can still fit it just requires a few leaps.
I don't think that the leviathans were ever stated to be just as old as god.
@@issac2939 not as old as good but older than the angels themselves. Including arch angels
@@accidentalmadness1708 how does it fit into the darkness origin?
@@Grayson-Winchester it’s established god tried creating stuff when amara was around and that she kept destroying everything. Making some leaps you could argue Chuck had created the leviathans back when amara was still around and that between her and the leviathans (but mostly her) everything was destroyed leading to chuck locking both away. It’s not perfect but considering I just pulled it out of my ass I’d say it could work.
since the mark kind of requires the darkness as a ingredient, i can't imagine god would willfully create a copy of the mark with another darkness, which is what he would of had to of done unless the removal spell removes all marks at once which is the only logical conclusion , that the spell removes all marks at once and the marks can cross realities/multiverses and the one darknesss is linked to all of them. God wouldn't willfully create more vulnerabilities just to expirament, the darkness is his worst enemy.
Cool new video !
Huh, all this time I thought the mark was linked to amara only. Turns out it can be linked to anyone who has the containment spell used on them. Now I'm just thinking about who'd I'd use the spell on and whether or not it would be worth it to carry the mark to keep that someone imprisoned, even knowing there's a chance it could turn me into the thing I hate the most. Assuming I couldn't kill said someone of course.
Or look at it like this Chuck was going around making all these alternate universes and he gave copies of the mark and Chuck has been known to abandon these universes so let's say in one Universe Amara got out of her prison in that universe that he abandons so what if she destroys that universe and goes on a destruction Bender sure it's a massive inconvenience that that Universe was destroyed but you know he abandoned it cuz he got bored so he'll just move on to another one and he'll deal with the problem later but unfortunately she got out in the main Universe the one that he was still interested in