Suspension Basics 02: The Effects of Link Bar Movement on Attached Components.
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2021
- In the second of the Suspension Basics series, we show how suspension works by adding multiple link bars and create two dimensional models of several link bar setups including the two-link parallel 4 link and link bar arrangements on production vehicles. We also talk briefly about how the principles of component movement apply not only to rear link bar suspension but also front control arm suspension which will play a huge role in avoiding or eliminating bump steer and achieving proper camber.
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3 months of tech school info in a matter of min. Legit
Thank you, Zach! You are appreciated my man. 🙏
You are a gifted teacher. I've been trying to wrap my head around the intricacies of linked suspensions, this series is by far the best RUclips content on the subject. Subscribed!!
Thank you, Dustin! That really means a lot to me. I appreciate your support. See you in the next one my man! 🍻
just discovered this on accident (actually #6 and came back to watch the whole series). The effort you put into all the little details really shows - fantastic teacher, and a great video producer/editor! I wish I could get all the crappy Jeep suspension techs I've seen over the years to watch your videos!
Haha! Thank you, Brent. I appreciate that more than you know.🙏 Share with all the crappy Jeep techs you can. Sharing is caring, and RUclips loves it. 🍻
Super educational. And your humor has got me slappin knees bro. 😂😂
Haha! Happy to be of service my man.
@@GarageFab this video got you a new subscriber! Thanks for the info!
Thrilled to have you! See you in the next one.
How is it possible this series doesn't have a million views? Seriously.
Thank you my friend! It’s getting there. Slowly. 😆
Wow !! Light bulb went off in my head with that twist ending. So cool 👍. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate these principles so clearly, much appreciated. 👊
It’s my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time to watch! 🙏
Pretty sure this is the best suspension detail I've seen on here. Excellent! Very easy to understand
Good to hear. I almost didn’t bother because there are loads of suspension videos already in existence. Happy to hear it wasn’t time wasted. 🙌
you have changed my way of thinking and building better suspension no more short cuts. Starting another project so will be doing it your way.Thanks for the lesson.
Happy to be of service, Graham! If you’ve got questions, I’ll try and help where I can. Hit me up anytime here or on Instagram @GarageFab
You’re the man. The information is presented so clearly, production quality is off the charts for a channel this size, and your energy is awesome.
Thank you sir.
Thank you, Sam! Your kind words mean a lot. Cheers!! 🍻
This is a great series and for anyone doing a 4 link should stop by and watch this for sure. Even if you know everything haha, ya those guys, Robert Johnson the blues guitarist proved that it’s better to study all music and bring it into your own playing. And that can be used across the board, the more you see watch and learn about doing fab work, the better you will become. I do love how he is worried about holding power and beefing every thing up. When all actuality IV seen Cummins trucks with a lower traction bar on leaf springs put down 2000ftlbs of torque, the 4 link on my Cummins 08 is the same just scaled up and bigger joints and everything but it’s the same concept.
Thank you Heidi! Well if you find someone planning a 4 link, steer them this direction. The channel and I would be eternally grateful. 2kftlbs eh? Beefy links is probably a good idea! 😆
Wow, great video, loving this series, I already thought I knew a lot............leave it at that. Also the excitement when cycling suspension adds to the enjoyment ha ha ha
Thank you my man! I love learning and I’ve enjoyed being part of other beautiful people’s learning.
💯👍 Quality content. This is an asset to the MT community.
Yes! Thank you for the kind words.
Next comes driveshaft, then universal joints, then constant velocity joints, then couplers, then ball joints, heim joints and if you start explaining cantilever suspension, I'm gonna be so geeked out and excited that someone can not only explain it all but can teach it in everyday language and fab it in projects too! Can't tell you how much I enjoy your videos!
Haha! Almost. Next will be lateral stability using panhard bars, watts links and triangulated 4 links. But then onto the drive shafts followed immediately by third "links" like tie rods and CV axles.
I wasn't planning to do a cantilever video but your excitement may change that. I had planned on doing various simple lifting methods so I imagine there's room in there for a cantilever.
Thank you again for the feel-good motivation.
@@GarageFabI think that the new koenigsegg super cars have another type of new suspension! You should do a vid on that!
Thank you for doing this. For someone who wants to get in to this and start building custom trucks and 4x4s and has a basic knowledge this is extremely helpful and very useful for a visual learner haha. Thank you again.
We’re the same, Blake. You can tell me something a hundred times but it won’t sink in until I see it.
Thank you my friend. 👊
This is some amazing content. Your channel is going to blow up overnight some time very soon. Please keep making content and sharing your knowledge and passion with the world.
It’s so rare to see someone get as jazzed about teaching something as you did in this video, and without getting all corny, I cannot stress enough that this is your calling.
Keep moving forward, my friend
Thank you for some much needed motivation. I sincerely appreciate you!
I’m going to have to rewatch that video… there must have been some corniness in there somewhere. I usually can breathe without ejecting corn.
But seriously, Imma keep going until I drop. I’m thoroughly enjoying myself at the moment and I’ve got some really exciting projects planned.
One again, Thank you. 🙏
Your channel and the way that you teach is impressive. Your diagrams and models are fantastic. I'm a 50 year old Australian man and I'm learning more from your channel than any other source of knowledge. Your one of the only people that go to the effort of making the models and explaining the principles. 😊Thank you
Thank you, Charlie! I’m honored. I’ve always been a slow learner. I learned visual examples and understanding the “why” changed that. Cheers my friend.
Thank you Garage Fab.
Everything that I would say as a response your generosity in teaching has already been said.
You promote knowledge rather than yourself. You are a selfless teacher.
I hope your reward for this is Rich
Thank you, Priscilla! It’s really my pleasure. There would be no better “thank you” than to share the videos you enjoy with someone you think might benefit from them.
Thanks again! I’ll see you in the next one!
Another awesome video!! I'm so happy I found this channel!!
Well, Joshua, I’m also thrilled you found it. See you in the next one!
Your awesome I absolutely love how you explain things I get irritated trying to explain these things and understand them sometimes but you put it in a way anyone can understand so truly thank you for that and the work you put into your videos I appreciate and am fascinated with every video!
Excellent! Thank you for that. Your words are greatly appreciated. They give me some much needed motivation. Cheers!
I have to watch this one again. I'm not stupid...just older and those synapses of mine don't fire quite so well. I do appreciate your vids though. Keep up the good work.
I’m the same way, Daniel. That’s why I decided to make videos rather than creating an in-person course. Stuff just doesn’t sink in for me.
There’s a new video coming out soon about driveshaft that might help all this make sense.
Or… it just might make it worse! 😬
Thank you my friend! I appreciate you watching.
Love your videos, your welding skills are incredible. I have done a lot of welding over the years however I am no professional, welder but would like to learn how to make clean appearance welds. Keep up with your great videos.
Fantastic videos also, the pinion angle video.Great delivery great delivery speed and awesome demonstrations
Where has this channel been all of this time !!!!!!!! It’s absolutely frustrating trying to find a bit of rational information that doesn’t include “ That’s just how we always done it” keep it coming bud ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you! I truly appreciate that. And I certainly will. 🍻
Always killing it with the energy and knowledge. Keep 'em coming.
Thank you, Brother. 🍻
Excellent content. Has to be some of the best on RUclips. Great personality and well explained! You’ve got something here. Keep at it!!
Imma keep going till I drop. Thank you! 🙏
Holy shit this video blew my mind when you switched from pinion angle of a rear axle to camber of a front wheel
Yes! The two types of suspension are completely different yet they still follow the same principles. I’ll be starting on the front suspension on my Wife’s truck soon and I’m excited to introduce what I call “Third links” which refers to things like steering rods and drive axles; Components that aren’t necessarily part of the suspension but have to play along to avoid problems. Another potential mind blower.
Excellent and unique way of making understand. Please keep going
Wow - to say that video was great work is an understatement! 👏👏
Thank you my friend. 🙏
Love your energy! And the content! Exactly what I have been looking for for a while.
Thank you, Daniel! You are appreciated. More on the way soon! (I hope)
Just so you know,I hit the thumbs up when I first turn t video on. I have confidence that you will not disappoint me.. that said, I liked the Segway into front A-arms. Nice touch😅
Nice. I thought you were about to say you took the thumb away at the end. 😆 Thank you, Lewis. You are appreciated.
Quality content! Good second video! Youve got me cracking up! Do the thing!
Thank you, James!! 🍻
Aaron ... great tutorial Sir !!! ... Much Respect
Thank you, my friend. 🙏
As always very professional level content well explained great content! Happy new year!
Happy new year Homie! Thank you!
woooo! 9:00 mind blown! This presentation connected some dots for me in terms of camber in independent suspension.. you're a bad ass, man!
I'm going to be fabricating a cross-kart soon, so I'm trying to soak up as much info as i can, while I collect parts and whatnot. Hence all my newbie questions; I am new. In the end I'll have a bad ass ATV and some excellent bonding with my nephews.
Although you're channel is dedicated to full sized vehicles, I've been finding your information invaluable to helping me learn.
Thank you 🤘
10:30 f yessss! called it!... dude, this is stellar
Haha! The size doesn’t matter. Semi trucks and RC cars all use the same principle. I’ve got a lil project you’ll love coming in a couple months. (After it cools down a bit.)
I’m excited to hear how your projects go with the wee ones! Definitely a project they’ll remember. Good on you mate!
Man! You are hitting some good stuff like no other!! Nice work!
Thank you, Dale! Very much appreciated. 🙏
I like the visual aids. So simple and easy to understand.
Thank you, Raul. 🙏
I absolutely needed this right now!
Fantastic! Can’t wait to see what you do with it. 🙌 Thank you!
Just what I was looking for and well presented, this information will be useful for my rc crawlers. Thanks 👍
Nice! It’s cool hearing how this stuff is relevant to stuff I never considered. Lemme know things go!
@@GarageFab I made some adjustments today that really helped thanks for expanding my knowledge. Question, has anyone ever said that you remind them of Daniel ricciardo ( F1 driver)?
Nope! That’s the first one. I can see the tiniest hint of resemblance. Normally I get Tom Green, Ross from Friends, and RUclips’s Sheriff Frank
Dude!!! RUclips didn't let me know you had any new video's now I find out there are 6 I just had to binge! Good to see you back Mankandie, even though apparently it was RUclips being crappy!!!!
I can't imagine binging my videos. Like frosting, a little taste is great. After that it's just gross. Glad to have YOU back. 👏
So much useful information from your channel brotha!! If anyone is looking to do a DYI 4 link they should watch you and puddins fab shop!! The 2 most informational channels ive ever watched!
Hopefully I’ll get an opportunity to do some sort of collab with him one day. That would be dope.
Thank you, Brad!
@@GarageFab he is the Datsun king of Pott County Oklahoma also the pott county legend! That would be an awesome show
Have you seen an older video where Puddin meets future Puddin? I don’t think that’s how he intended back then but it was a total foreshadowing of modern videos.
Check it… ruclips.net/video/a1QhkFVFluw/видео.html
Awesome video man but was so excited waiting for the last link of chassis end being closer to watch the pinion angle compared to the others and then the links changed so drastically I couldn’t visualise it.
Don’t worry I got my own cardboard 😂
Bummer! Sorry my man. Did you do the cardboard model yet. If I understand what you’re describing, (the front pivots are closer together than the rear, forming somewhat of a triangle) you might be able to visualize it this way: Imagine drawing a line through the link bars beyond the bushings into space. The point that those lines insect is the point that the differential will rotate around. Hopefully that makes sense.
So when link bars are set up as mentioned, the pinion angle will change similar to the two-link at 3:54, but not as drastically because the imaginary pivot is much further forward.
This goes both ways. Meaning, if the rear bushings are closer together than the front bushings like the setup at 8:10, the imaginary pivot point is near the back of the truck frame. Watch that one again and notice how the differential (pinion angle) almost appears to rotate around the rear bumper would be.
Hope this blows your mind. It did mine!
WOW, I just had an lightbulb moment 👍🤔 Thank you👍🇭🇲😎
Thank YOU, Sandra! Happy to be of service.
Lovely video! I build and run RC cars, and I use this stuff all the time :)
Yes!! Probably literally use the same parts too! 😆
Great information as always!
Thank you my man. 🙏
Best video ive seen on this subject!
Thank you, Dewani! I hope you find it useful sometime in the future.
Epic videos bro.
Keep it up.
Thank you Brother! Imma try and go till I drop.
Very simple way in delivering the principle l like it so much thank u so much
Thank you! 🍻
Obviously I want more!
More on the way!
I have watched three videos. I’m hooked new subscriber.
Haha! Excellent. You are appreciated and glad to have you. See you in the next one!
Love your channel , I learned a ton . Thank you
Thank YOU, Mike! 🙏
😅😅😅 Hello & a good evening to you. I am glad that I had search thru you videos and saw this. I am just two days away from receiving a pair of non OEM & adjustable rear upper link bar for a year 2006 W211 Mercedes. This new link bar allows adjustment of negative camber but it have red PU bushes which pivot freely on it's inner hollow tube. The inner hollow tube & the bolt, once tightened suppose to be non rotating?. I am inferring this to the concept of PU bush installing explained in your other video.
For now I am keeping all the other 3 rear OEM non adjustable links bar untouched. For the OEM link bars the black rubber bush is sort of factory baked in, together with its own hollow steel inser.
I understand that the cast or set in rubber in the end of the OEM link bar, while it appears to be solid, is actually reasonably flexible when a twisting load is applied onto it. This will translate into a bit of play or gives. Correct?.
So what in a negative manner will the new link, with PU bush of different play or gives, effects the play of the other 3 OEM rear link bars. I especially like very very much the last 5 minutes of this video.
Regards
It sounds as though you understand everything perfectly. I’ll just reword it all to confirm.
Yes, the inner metal sleeve of a polyurethane bushing becomes stationary once the bolt is tightened. The polyurethane bushing itself will then rotate around this stationary sleeve as the suspension moves.
The bolt for the polyurethane bushing can be tightened at any time, however, the bolts for OEM rubber bushings must not be tightened until the vehicle weight is on the suspension. Tightening these bolts with the vehicle on a lift or jacks will cause the bushings to tear prematurely.
Yes, rubber bushings deflect more than polyurethane bushings, but there shouldn’t be any adverse effects simply because the bushings don’t match. If you’re sensitive, perhaps you’ll feel the slightest increase of vibration simply because your camber arms are a little firmer.
Videos are great very informative i love it... ps still wanting a couple decals!!!!
Keep on me! I'll get em to you eventually. New design is complete, now just need to get my vinyl machine up and running. And thank you!!!
Thanks very much for this video & explain it the way you have . I think I may have to watch it a couple of times for it to synced lol as you said it's simple quite technical . I'm going to get under my Chevy check the pinion angle I got a sneaky suspicion it's a couple of 3 down out , l have a slight vibration about 60 mile an hour 100Km I thought it might be the drive shaft imbalance. Once again thanks for sharing
Driveshaft imbalance is a real thing too! Bad U joints can do the same thing as well. Wiggle the joints and see if there’s any movement, if not pull the driveshaft down and make sure the U joints move freely. Lemme know what you find!
Good info man keep it up. Am building a couple of projects and this info is so on point
Excellent to hear, Thank you!
What are you building?!
@@GarageFab i am building an offroader out of a old toyota surf. I think you guys call it a tacoma? Which i want a triangle rear link set up in to increase my travel, and a grass cart for the boys.
That's awesome. I'd love to see it.
Amazing again!!!
Sean, Thank you. 🙏
I've been to Wyotech, Universal Technical Institute, the United States Army Mechanic School, and the School of Automotive Machinists (SAMtech), and I have never heard someone explain something so simple and concise. The visual tools are amazing and you have such a great speaking voice. I'm big fan now. Definitely subscribed! Keep up the great work. 👏👏👏👏👏
Never been more flattered in my life, Jon! Thank you. 🙏 Welcome to the channel! I hope to see you in future videos. It sounds like you might have some good info to share. 🤔 Have a fantastic evening! 🍻
@@GarageFab I sure hope so, or I wasted a lot of money! Haha. Suspension fabrication is a mystery to me. So, your video series is phenomenal. I'll stick to engines, CAN-BUS, and aerodynamics, but I'm fascinated about what you're showing here. 🙃
Funny. I’ve been a Toyota tech for 18 years. Pretty good with electrical, but still struggle with CAN-BUS. 😩
@Garage Fab Nissan, Land Rover, and Porsche myself. Now I build engines for a race team. Secret sauce stuff. 🤫🤓
I won’t ask any questions then! 😳
I’m excited!!!!
Haha! Woooo!!! 🎉
Excelente trabajo 👏
¡Muy apreciado mi hombre! 🍻
Wow Like being in school and im 45 years old hahaha, Yes Im Excited! Love how you get so excited. I want a frame made of my Nissan hardbody extended cab... hahaha Seriously Aaron this is so cool. Well cooler if you would stop teasing the homicide doors and just make a video or maybe a setup like this on how to build them, hahaha
Great Video brother! Congrats on the 1k subscriptions.
Hahaha! It's coming my man I promise. Can't promise it'll be soon but it's coming. I'll definitely consider a small model.
Thank you, Sir! 🍻
Excellent
Great teacher
Much appreciated my man! I wasn’t a fan of my teachers so that means a lot. 🙏
This is great. Thank you.
Thank YOU, Jordan. 🙏
Love the vids brother keep up the good mahi bro (work) 🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
Thank you! ♥️
Quality as always 👌
Thank you Sir. ♥️
Thanks so much brother!! 👍
My pleasure, Román.
Keep it goin’…
100,000 subzzz soon !!!
I’m tryin!! Gimme a year. 😉
WOW!!!!! Thank You very Much!!!!!
My pleasure! 🍻
If my school teachers explained like you do I probably would have stayed awake. 🤔
Haha! I hear you. And I might’ve graduated on time.
Thank you Scott. Your kind words are very much appreciated! 🙏
I'm not in low rider at all, but man your explanation is awesome 😀
Oh man! If you ever experienced the cloud-like ride of an air suspension with low pressure, you’d be building one the next day! 🙌
Haha thank you my man!
Thanks for sharing some valuable information I have really learned a few things. Just wondering if you have any ideas on how to have two plates in parallel with a pivot joint. I don’t want to use just a bolt with washers. Regards
this guy is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!
You’re amazing back, Tanner! Thank you. 🙏
@@GarageFab I have built a few vehicles myself and they way you teach is incredible! Wish that I would have learned the things you are teaching 20 years ago. Keep the videos coming.
I’ll go as long as I can. You are appreciated, Brother!
Ju-Lee "do the thing!" Made my day avitar fan!
Haha! I was starting to think all my viewers were too old. 🤓
Your awesome keep it up
Thank you! You’re not so bad yourself!
Awesome
Thank you, Joseph. 🙏
Thank you, dave grhol
Yes!!! I haven’t gotten that one for almost 15 years. My pleasure.
I’d like to see more videos of front suspension and designing and setting up custom suspensions you plan on doing any of that ?
Yes, Alan, very soon. I’m wrapping up the rear as we speak and the front suspension with be created ALMOST from scratch.
will you do a video on swing arm. please I thoroughly enjoy your videos.
Please clarify! A swing arm like on a motorcycle? I have a project coming up that could potentially help but no promises. Keep an eye out for “The Worlds Smallest Street Legal Bagged Minitruck” It’s a tiny truck that uses a street bike motor and the swing arm from a 4 wheeler.
Maybe it’ll answer questions and maybe it won’t. But it’ll definitely be fun.
@@GarageFab oh sorry. I can see how that would be confusing. I mean like a dull cool over long travel swing arm suspension in the rear of a pickup. not a single coilover like what's on a four wheeler dirt bike. I know on a truck when you do a swing arm setup you want to mount the eyeball under the axle tube so it's always pulling down otherwise under heavy load you can force the axle one way or the other. The only advantage I can see of the swing arm is the suspension travel which is what I'm looking for.
Understood, Bart! From my understanding, the benefits are mostly in the form of simplicity and added traction on acceleration because of how the geometry affects instant center. A fancy way of saying it’s designed to transfer the vehicles weight into the rear tires.
NASCAR has used that design for many years so it’s undoubtedly a good design.
But in my opinion steer clear of the two-link (My term for swing arm) if you’re building adjustable suspension like bags or hydraulics for pinion angle purposes.
But for static height suspension, it’s a great choice. 👍
👍🏻. You’ve become my fave RUclipsr lol. ….
Thank you, Ramses! I am honored. 🙏
Also good.
🙌 Thanks my friend!
I want to change my suspension on my 1938 Chevy Business Coupe. What do you suggest! Just basic driving to the car shows. Occasionally spinning the tires, but nothing extreme. Love the tutorial s👍😎
Thank you, Kirk!! It would be really difficult to give a recommendation without seeing the underside of a vehicle. But in most coupes (cars in general) a parallel 4 link with a panhard bar or a watts link works best. A triangulated 4 link commands a LOT of real estate and would likely require you to cut and rebuild a lot of the floor behind the front seats. Maybe even requiring you to delete the rear seat. A parallel link setup on the other hand may also require some cutting but often only on the sides near or in the rear wheel wells. If you’re lucky you can position the link bars to essentially straddle the rear seat.
I can’t wait to see what you choose! Best of luck my man!
You have opened my eyes to a whole new world. Lol wow
Great video
Thank you, Kelly!
@@GarageFab I watched your link bar video first and it was great also. I'm building a truck right now and might change a my rear end suspension plans and build it myself !! Lol
Yes!!! Do it! What are you building?
Next suspension basics video will drop tomorrow morning hopefully.
@@GarageFab I'm building a square body that I have been working on for a couple of years now. I have done a lot of things to it that I have never been done to others that I'm aware of anyways.
@@GarageFab I look forward to watching it. You are great the way you explain things. I'm kinda like you in one sense. Put it on paper and move it. If it looks weird it probably is...lol
I finally got to see the Homicide Door...I was wondering what you were talking about. lol
Haha!! My most pride creation. It’ll make a comeback in the next Garage Fab project!
what an amazing series, came across your work while researching and i must say this is exactly what i was looking for, but i need your help with something, at 2:36 on the video you talk about using square link bars and mounting them as you would mount leaf springs, any chance that you could help me with links to pictures of what that looks like, i tried searching on google and i cant seem to find anything, what i keep finding is ladder bars and 4 links, thanks again for the amazing knowledge
Here’s a couple links that will hopefully help. There’s not a lot of good images of the axle/link bar connection. It’s really quite simple though. All the same hardware would be used that connects your axle to the leaf spring pack, except the springs are replaced with the end of the square link bar. A hole would need to be drilled in the link bar for the locating pin that sticks out of the U bolt/bracket hardware. Lemme know if you need more clarification.
www.nfamusmetal.com/tejas-2-link-kit/
store.ekstensive.com/products/73-87-chevy-gm-1-2-ton-rear-air-suspension-kit
pin.it/4qyWnsE
Another one for you, in the example with a shorter top arm the pinion angle would need to be angled up a bit at normal ride height because once you hit a bump the angle will level out instead of becoming more exaggerated downward. Correct? I saw a kit car with the same set-up and looking at the chassis, equal length arms won't fit without interfering with the body. I was thinking of building a kit car (eg 50s racer) with equal length bars and Watts link, but now I think a triangulated rear is a better option.
On any vehicle, the pinion angle should be parallel with the transmission output shaft as often as possible. On non-adjustable height vehicles the suspension will have a natural resting ride height. This is the height the vehicle sees most often so this is the height when it’s crucial that the pinion angle is correct. With unequal length bars, (Which is the norm for static height vehicles) the pinion angle will indeed change when you hit bumps and dips but that’s not something to stress about. Bumps are only temporary. The vehicle will naturally return to its resting ride height and the pinion angle will return to normal.
It’s constant driveshaft misalignment that causes rapid UJoint failure.
Can’t wait to see which one you choose!
Ilike what u did there
Could you address independent rear suspensions? Specially the C4, I'm getting ready to swap one in my 93 GMC Sierra.
Oooo! That sounds fun. I will certainly be going over IRS and IFS while building my next truck. Unfortunately that’s a ways away still. Anything in particular you need to know?
Does the C4 still have the mono leaf spring suspension?
Library none of your videos what size link bars to use like me I got a F350 as a pleasure but I also use it to pull by 38 foot fifth wheel camper what size length bars would I need to use in order to accommodate the weight Pole
Link bar length doesn’t matter much in regards to weight since they won’t be doing any heavy lifting. Larger bars would be wise because they will be pulling and slowing the truck and trailer. I’d likely use either 1/8 inch wall 2 inch round chromoly tubing, or 1/4 inch wall 2 inch mild steel tubing.
Link bar length should be as close to the length of the driveshaft (or rear section of shaft on a 2 pieced driveshaft) The difference in length between the driveshaft and the link bars determine how much the slip joint or yoke will move as the suspension articulates, which often can’t be more than 2 inches.
I always see people mounting the link bars on the inside of the frame. Is there a reason for the inside of the frame vs the outside of the frame? I am doing a triangular 4 link on a 02 f150. it looks like the straight bars could mount in the factory front mount where the leaf spring was, then I would have to weld to the axle. What do you think?
I think the answer to that is just clearance! Most vehicles don’t have enough room on the outside between the frame rail and the wheels so inside is the only option. I worked on an old Dodge recently and the frame rails were so close together that the ONLY option was on the outside.
I’d say as a rule of thumb the link bars SHOULD be as close to the wheels as possible especially if they’re load-bearing links. (Meaning the air spring or coil-over is mounted to the link rather than the axle)
That said, do what you’re doing! Just be aware that the front leaf spring mount often hangs down below the frame so if you plan to lay the frame on the ground, your link bar might hit first which is probably the only reason the factory mount would be a no-go.
Can’t wait to see what you come up with!
Good,
Thank you, Min Jaw!! 🙌
How would I be able to make a door hinge that pops out a couple inches then hinges like normal?
Hey Blake! What is this hinge for? I built a hinge for some Suicide doors that required the door to push away from the body several. It was just a large diameter curved hinge, but only had a single motion. Are you imagining two separate motions? Must it push out first before swinging? Hit me up on Instagram @GarageFab. I can share some images/videos of the Suicide door hinges.
@Garage Fab it's for a truck that I'm building. I want to use a newer cab on an older door skin but in order for it to work properly I need it to open outward then swing like normal
Here’s a question - many parallel link bar kits place the two pivot points on the axle bracket further apart than the two pivot points on the frame bracket. The instructions say to set the link bars at the same length, thus giving the parallel bars somewhat of a “sideways A” shape similar to ladder bars. How does this geometry affect the pinion angle, if at all?
If I’m understanding you correctly, your describing a similar setup as what’s shown at 9:43. This is super common and is ideal on static height vehicles. I’d recommend looking up the term “instant center“. If you were to draw an imaginary line through the upper and lower bars, the spot in space where those imaginary lines would eventually intersect is the vehicles instant center. Moving this instant center position around in the vehicle by changing the angles of the bars changes how the vehicle behaves under acceleration. This is no longer a “suspension basics“ topic.
Notice how the component angle changes at 9:43. This setup would increase traction if it were a linkbar set up, but the pinion angle change could cause problems on a vehicle with adjustable height suspension. Pinion angle should match the transmission shaft angle. A parallel 4 link with equal length bars would keep the pinion angle constant but would sacrifice some traction. Let me know how confusing that was! I’ll clarify if I can.
@@GarageFab I just released a video (that has your clip in the middle - thank you again👍), anyway, towards the end I unbox my new parallel4 link. The two holes for each link bar on the frame bracket are closer in distance than the two holes on the axle bracket. Not trying to weasel a view out of ya, but for clarity, it’s probably the best way to see what Im talking about, and if your response is applicable. Im going to look up instant center in the meantime
Weasel away! On my way right now.
I'm experiencing terrible wheel hop on my G body. It all started when I replaced the engine with a much more powerful engine. I'm figuring it is due to pinion angle. I think the axle is wrapping up. Being an old school drag racer, I think my fix is to adjust the upper links to make them shorter and point the pinion down more, so that when it wraps up, the pinion levels out to be parallel to the transmission shaft. What do you think?
Well, Kris, I’m not race guy. And even worse, I’m not G body guy! I can tell you the small amount that I’ve learned about wheel hop. Mostly it’s caused by excessive movement. Leaf springs are sloppy so wheel hop is a huge challenge. For your application though, it would be excessive movement in the links. Bushings would be an obvious upgrade. But I did some quick research on your body style and found that boxing the control arms is a common mod. That tells me that the control arms themselves are floppy. Incorrect link bar angles can also cause wheel hop. Is your car at factory height? If it’s lifted at all, the increased angle of the bars can result in too much antisquat that could potentially cause Wheel hop.
Pinion angle, to my knowledge does not affect wheel hop or traction. (Traction affects pinion angle but not the other way around.)
I’m sure you’ve seen them already but there are wheel hop eliminator kits for the G bodies. I don’t know what they do! But it might be an option!
@@GarageFab Thanks for the reply!
My car is sitting at factory ride height, but I did stuff 28x10.5x15 tires on the rear.
I have aftermarket UMI tubular lower control arms and adjustable upper control arms. All the connection points have polyurethane bushings, so there shouldn't be much movement. This is also a Ford 9" under my car.
I'll have to get it up on my lift and check the pinion angle.
Lemme know what you find! It sounds like you’ve already addressed everything that I would. 😩
ok, can I build front suspension with equal length bars?
With a solid axle? If so, yes. I can’t speak to performance applications because I’m not well educated on building front link systems. Bar angles play a large part in traction and handling capabilities. With a solid axle you would still want to keep your pinion angle in check and equal length bars will do that.
For control arm front suspension, I’d say no. The difference in the length of the upper and lower arms create a change in camber when the vehicle body rolls which helps maintain traction in turns. Making everything equal would take away some traction.
Side note! I got a couple of notifications of other comments from you earlier but I can’t read them. RUclips doesn’t allow external links and some other things that I’m not clear on yet. If you can, go check and see if your comments have been removed and if it tells you why! That would help me out a ton.
Hope this helped, Brother!
Best fucking video that just got me to fix my problem thx
Ooo! Tell me more! Happy to be of service my friend.
You do a front suspension video
It’ll be a little while but we’ll definitely be breaking down front suspension.
I have only built a few cars. The last one I built I used an independent rear suspension out of a 90s T Bird. Car lays frame. It had a small package and was relatively low cost. My question is why is this not common in the mini truck seen?
Not sure, Ian. At a risk of possibly insulting folks, many of the mini truckers I know aren’t really interested in going the extra mile. They want air suspension in the cheapest and easiest way possible. There are a few exceptions. The people that dump all the time and money necessary to create something unique and impressive. I do know of one guy in my old truck club that put an independent rear on his Isuzu. It was amazing indeed.
If you stick around, Ian, I promise to impress with the next project. IRS as well as so much more. Cheers!
@@GarageFab right on
@@GarageFab Thank you for letting “the Teacher out” of your personality for our benefit. Mean it!
My pleasure my man!
👍👍👍
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With short top bars cause wheelhop?
Will*
No. Wheel hop occurs most on vehicles with worn/missing shock absorbers, leaf springs or reverse link setups.
Most production vehicles with link bars have shorter upper bars. That’s OK only because production vehicles are static height vehicles. On adjustable height vehicles, uneven length bars cause issues with pinion angle often resulting in vibration or damage to the Ujoints.
Shorter top bars are acceptable if your vehicle is always at the same height but if you’re building something with air springs or hydraulics I’d strongly recommend equal length link bars.
how about a video on antiwrap axle bars with shackles for offroad vehicles
I’m not sure I’ll ever have the opportunity to install one of those, but I’ll see if I can squeeze some info about it into the video currently in production about U joints and pinion angle.
@@GarageFab if you can that would be great. Think more along the lines of a ladder bar with 2 points mounted to the frame above and below axle, upper bar is welded into straight lower bar than attaches to a short shackle and that shackle attaches to a cross member that bolts or is welded to both sides of frame just below or above the driveshaft (off center from driveshaft)
@@GarageFab also throw articulation into that above info.. I've searched all over for info about all of it and can never find anything that talks about all of it together
@@beerock That sounds like a different video all together. What do you need to know?
@@GarageFab I'm working on a 1980 cj5 with a 350 Chevy and a YJ leaf spring conversion. Just finished it and I'm getting axle wrap and trying to figure out the best way to stop axle wrap and still have full articulation. If you do make a video about the different way solid axle with leaf guys do it and show them all (even the bad ones like traction bars with no shackle) and point out the best way I'm sure it will get a lot of views you def gave me some good infó I even made diff on a price of paper and I attached arms to it and swung it up and down.. most guys use a ladder bar with cross member frame to frame with shackle mount, 1 shackle 1 bar attached to it and 1 mount welded to axle with 2 attached bars (triangle config) I've heard it binds a little for articulation.. hope to see a vid of it soon!