How to properly set up and measure your Pinion Angle on your Muscle Car
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- In this video Nick discussed some of the techniques used to properly measure and c calculate your pinion angle on your street driven, coil sprung muscle car. Below are the links to the tools mentioned int he video that you can use to setup your own pinion angle in your hot rod, classic car, or muscle car.
Spicer website link: spicerparts.co...
Tremec App download: www.tremec.com...
Have any questions about how to setup your own pinion angle? Leave a comment!
#classicnation #pinionangle #customcars
My husband thanks you for confirming what he felt was true, but was continually told otherwise. Appreciate the help!
You are so welcome! Glad it was helpful!
Finally a simple to the point explanation, I have a terrible vibation over 65mph and I now feel like I can measure the angles and hopefully correct it, my upper control arms are adjustable so that should help.
how did that turn out? did it get rid of your vibration?
@@motopsycho6169 No I still have a significant vibration starting at 70 mph, both trans output shaft and rear diff pinion are set at 3.6 degrees. I cannot shim the rear trans mount as the u-joint is already very close to the tunnel. The car has been lowered so the driveshaft actually runs uphill to the differential at about 1 degrees. Driveshaft was trued and balanced (new U-joints), pinion yoke has no play in it, wheels were checked for wobble, tires were replaced and balanced, driveshaft splines at the trans have minimal movement. The only thing I have not checked is for a bent axle flange, I would appreciate any advice because I am out of options here.
@@fuhrstpuhl3278 Does it happen in any gear? Are you sure it's not RPM based? Could very wel be bent axels. I changed mine out due to a minor bend in them. I'm hunting a vibration in my LS swapped foxbody at 2700-3000rpm for the past year+, I've changed everything except the motor and trans at this point lol. I'm just waiting for it to blow up
@@fuhrstpuhl3278sometimes the vibration can be caused at the u joint, or an imbalance at the driveshaft. It's not always pinion angle that causes vibration.
@@fuhrstpuhl3278 Helped a friend with a similar vibration on his 67 Camaro. What we found after a whole bunch of parts changing and measuring was the 12 bolt drive shaft yolk was not machined properly right from GM. We tried wheel balancing, driveshaft balancing, rear end shaft change, pinion angle measurement, all with no luck. Then one day I was looking at the 12 bolt yolk with the driveshaft off and I could see the u joint pockets were not symmetrical. Bought a new yolk and problem solved.
You are a great teacher.Simple,straight to the point.I like the three things to remember.
Thank you for this!
Very good information. Most impressive is the way you present it. Very well spoken. Easily understood. You are a great presenter. Well done.
Thank you Roger! I really appreciate the compliment and the support!
Hello. I put 2.5 drop coil springs on my 62 impala and drive shaft rubs on rear floor tunnel. Before I shim it up should I change all my rear and front bushings? Or that wouldn't make a difference?
@@jaimevarillas6329 unfortunately, if you move the differential yoke upward its going to get it closer to the floor. you might be better off lowering the yoke to where the operating angles on the u joints are as strait as possible.
Good video, well explained. Clean and short.Thank you!
Thank you for the support!
Great video. I'm fighting a little vibration, and I'll use your technique to verify my angles. 👍
Update:
It worked. I found that my pinion was pointed down by 1.4* and my transmission was down by 2.2*. No bueno.
I've ordered the adjustable upper control arms to resolve this.
Guys like you, make neighbors think I know what I'm doing. 😈😉
Glad we could help! Thanks for the support!
obviously someone who Knows what their talking about, no guessing, thanks
I watched other videos and no one mentioned numbers, what's good,what's bad. Thanks, great video.
FANTASTIC. JUST THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF INFO FOR THE SPECIFIC SUBJECT. MUCH MORE FOR DIFFERENT APLICATIONS
Glad it was helpful!
right to the point for anyone to understand . finally a info video that was not a waste of time. thanks !!
Thank you for the well made and very informative video. I've been fighting an issue with a new build for weeks. Looking forward to getting back at it tomorrow
Excellent video. Thank you. No need to watch any other videos for this application. Which is a rarity. I normally have to gather information from several videos and come up with my own plan. But not this one. Everything is covered. Thanks pal
Thanks for the feedback Blair! Much appreciated!
Solid info! It's a misunderstood thing - the amount of difference it can make in your car is unreal at speed.
Agreed!
So damn helpful. Think I may just have discovered the source of driveline vibration in my 70 Boss 302!
Was this your issue?
Did you find the problem?
I never ever learned this much in such a little time like this
thanks!!
Thank you for the simple explanation! I just did a QA1 coilover conversion on my 83 C10 and have been trying to find an explanation of how to set pinion angle. Thanks for the 3 simple rules towards the end.
I just finished my 83 c10 as well , what was your results?
Straight to the point, easy explanations, no BS. This earned a Sub!
Thank you!!
Thanks for the great video
Nice that Dodge/Chrysler set the pinion angle on my challenger to blow out the pinion seal every 20,000 miles. Fun job!
Just a tip...You should address whether the setup is a W or a Z config. You are correct as far as a Z config goes but most cars have a W config on the shaft. The upper arms will be too short to accommodate as well as the prop shaft may contact the floor in certain instances. The same also works in the overhead view...you need a consistent setup (W or Z) in BOTH planes for the joints to be happy. Nice video and presentation...hope this helps.
I haven't driven a car since 1989, probably never will again, but this is interesting to me and your presentation was informative and easy to follow.
Why haven't you driven a car in so long?
@@SangheiliSpecOp I had a bad accident, lucky to walk, at that point, but never had the desire after that. I've always lived in cities, downtown especially, where cars are a liability.
@@stepchildofsoul i see... I'm very sorry to hear about your accident and I'm glad you are still able to walk! I can see why you wouldn't want to drive anymore after that. Plus you live in a city so I do suppose it's that that bad. Cars can be such financial drains, I have to make car and insurance payments, I just spent $2k in parts for an upcoming clutch replacement job I have to do, and my car is somewhat of a gad guzzler too. I live in Florida though and everything is spaced apart so you need to drive pretty much (at least where I live). Good on you for going on that long without one. It also probably leads to a more active lifestyle too
Thanks so much for this video. I was so confused how to set my pinion angle. Especially with the tremec app. You've explained it very well.
Glad it helped!
Finally some clarity, thank you sir!!
Excellent well-spoken and informative. Going to use your tips and see where she sits. Thank you. Great job. I learned alot👍✌🇺🇸
72 Chevelle here with a TKO600… I was told by a circle track guy to keep the pinion angle slightly down. So I have a downward trans and a downward pinion. I’ve been chasing this vibration for a few years now and I’ve never been told to point the pinion up. It all makes sense now.
Awesome video!! im just starting a hotrod project and that was extremely informative and helpful thank you!!
this video is great, put things in simple terms that the shade tree guy can understand.
this video is great, put things in simple terms that the shade tree guy can understand.
Best video on the topic i seen so far.. Good job buddy
Dude,off the pully is Hella smart, I been using the small output shaft.thanks
best video on this complex topic. TY
the best video on this subject ive ever found, good job!
Subscribled!
Thank you so much! That is much appreciated! Cheers!
Great video!! I just installed a Gear Vendor in my 66 Chevelle. Vibrates at about 65 and up. Guess I was hoping to get lucky with the pinion angle. I am going to use this instruction and see what happens. Will post the results. Thanks again!!
Hoping you got some good results - and any info. found as I am considering GV for my 70 502 which is currently backed by Art Carr 200-4r that was great for years, but installing a Tstorm single and stout cam.
Great info, hope to see a video about a leaf spring car pinion angle setup.
Very good job explaining everything. Thanks for the info on the angle finder from the toolbox 🧰. I’m 63 and been messing with vehicles as long as I can remember, I was taught to level the intake as close as u could to level the carb and get the best angle for your driveline. Like to see one on leaf springs.
Great video 👍
Thanks Timmy!!!
Excellent video! Very smart man. Thanks.
Thank you!
Well Done, concise and explicit.. I shall now double check engine angle using front pulley
Thanks Jeff!
Excellent, to the point information presented in a clear concise presentation. THANK YOU !!
Thanks. I just put 4.56 in my car, now it vibrates like crazy at 65mph. I noticed my rear diff is pointed down and so is my trans. I just ordered adjustable upper control arms to hopefully bring my diff up to match the trans angle.
Did you fix it?! I bought a 01 trans am and a new rear-end was put in along with new driveshaft and torque-arm and all that stuff. It vibrates around 60mph+
Right now it’s -3 on trans and -3 on pinion.
I need help I can’t figure it out I brought it to a couple shops too I can’t find out the right angle
Nice job on the video. I found it very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you for a great video. I have the app now.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the feedback!
To my understanding, carburetor pad on most street intake manifolds 3 to 3.5 degrees. That instructs fairly well regarding engine setup which the driveline must mesh with.
I found this informative and I don't think you are wrong but I have a few comments. All the text and manufacture information I have ever referenced always measured the front and rear u-joint angles at the u-joint bearing cap. If 1/2 of a degree is critical (which it is) I don't think the front pulley or the diff flange dust shield are very precise and I have seen a lot of bent metal rulers that are not flat. Maybe a precision straight edge instead of a metal ruler. When measuring at the u-joints first the slip yoke at the transmission, then the driveshaft yoke near the transmission. Followed by the differential yoke compared to the driveshaft yoke near the differential. For years I have used a 1 degree difference between front and rear however over the past 5 to 6 years someone pointed me to a reference specification of 1/2 of a degree difference so that is now what I use. You do advise everyone to have that difference as small as possible, that is great. The 2 degrees engine down and 2 degree diff up work great for stock cars and light trucks but for a truck that has been raised with large tires there is a limit to engine angle adjustment and the rear diff will need a greater tilt upwards value than the engine tilt down value and it's unlikely to keep the u-joints less than 3 degrees so we try to keep is as small as possible. This is just the reality if someone wants to raise their vehicle above factory curb height. Noting that the 2 degree up/down does not apply to a vehicle with a modified curb height. Finally, I thought by the title you would show how to actually change the pinion angle to meet the desired measurements.
Fantastic explanation 💪 😎 Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great info, clear, concise, easily understood. Thanks, Jack
Thank you so much! Glad it was helpful!
Clear , concise and very informative. Thanks
Well done , thank you - Australia !
You should consider mentioning whether or not a double cardan is used up front; if it is then having parallel angles with the front and rear does not apply. The pinion should be inline with the drive shaft in this case
Great video. I understand all of this, its explained and very informative. My question is where on the car did you zero out the angle finder.
While watching your video I am wondering how I have been successfull in my ventures without this knowledge. I have converted two different coil spring rear ends to leafe springs and installed them in my 67 g10 van. No vibrations from either one and the second one has been in use more than 10 years with no u joint failures. I angled the differential to suit my eye and welded the spring perches in place. Tape was used for left right balance and parallel with front axil. Going to recheck soon with this method. Thank you.
Nice video. A bit different but have been chasing a vibration under hard accel on my Jeep after a small lift. I know I need a double cardan on the rear to help but I measured anyway and found my vibe.. I had an operating angle on the rear driveshaft of 8.3 and my pinion was a degree off the drivetrain. I have adjustable arms and dialed a degree out of the pinion to match the 5.5 degree powertrain angle, now have 7.3 operating angle with a bit less vibration but still there.
Great video thanks a bunch.Very nicely explained.
Awesome video. Helped a lot swaping my Abody 8.2 Axle in my gbody malibu!
Glad it helped!
Excellent presentation! Thank you.
I've always heard point the nose of the rear end up 1-3 degrees. If you point a go-pro at your 3rd member and go for a drive, you'll see that the pinion angle changes quite a bit under load.
You made it very easy to understand thank you
Sketch at 6:00 does not show proper out of 'phase'. Do you check the crank pulley in different positions? It is also part of Harmonic Balancer I believe. Rubber mounted. Great explanation. Diff and Trans shafts should be Parallel.
Thanks you made it so simple to understand.
Cheers & stay safe
Thanks! Happy to help!
Thank You sir for this straight forward information. Just subscribed to your channel. An old hot rodder told me set up engine angle about 3 degrees (downward) just like your explanation. Great 👍 information, I’m setting up my driveline in me 54 Chevy 3100 now. Definitely using your video for information.
Hello Jeremy, can we share notes, I have a 3100 that I’m building.
@@rollitex3055 sure, however I can help.
@@jeremymoran5123 I wanted to ask you if you remember how many degrees did you set your pinion Angle, I’m in the process of doing that on my 49.
That is some good information. Thanks for the tip on the ap
I learned something today. Thank you.
Glad to hear it! Thanks Dirk!
Very good info & presentation. Most that Ive seen stumble at best through the process spewing mis information. More very important basics need to be mentioned such as both angles CANNOT be on the same plane
Great video, exactly what i was looking for, but i have a question... My mustang has independent rear suspension, can i check these angles on a 2 post lift without faulty readings?
Great video I'm working on a 36 Chevy that has a shake at 60 will checking allll that
Good info thanks
Well explained you answered my question on how to set the motor and trans and rear awesome video
Awesome video you made it easy to understand I've always had a slight vibration definitely going to have a closer look at those angles thanks
I changed leaf springs on the rear of my 72 charger. also changed front shackles too. Then had a 3.90 ring and pinion installed. Ever since then (2018) the car had this vibration you could feel when u let off the throttle in 4th gear at highway speeds of 55-60 mph. It seemed to smooth out when u got back in the throttle but it was ever so slightly still there. New transmission mount, new cut and balanced driveshaft too by a reputable driveline service company. I recently realized the front leaf spring shackles were in the 1.5" lowering position. I Switched it back to the original ride height mount on the shackle and the vibration is still there but not quite as prominent. At this point i plan to check my pinion angle and engine/trans angle. from what i am understanding the angles need to be as close to equal but opposite ? my buddy recently redid the ring and pinion for me too and he thinks the pinion is too deep in the ring gear but i have found information suggesting that a ring and pinion wont vibrate , only howl or make noise. Great video by the way. i look forward to checking my angles. I have a suspicion that the newer leafs and trans mount could have thrown my angles off. In any case i figure it be best to check all angles and make sure they are in an acceptable range before it messes up the new ring and pinion. what are your thoughts? thank you
Here's a tip lads check any movement in the differential input shaft, if you have run your car with the vibration I have wrecked to sets of bearings setting mine.
As I had put a new bearing in I thought it was the wheels out of true causing the vibration.
I accidentally put my hand on the propshaft and the new bearing was shot.
100% right on! Great video!
Great information for my build!!
I was halfway through this before realizing that none of it applies to my car. But it was so well presented that I just kept watching. 🤣👍
Is your setup leaf springs?
@@ClassicNation i have leaf slrings and 2 peice tailshaft. A decent vid on that would be ace please.
Great video thank you
Thank you for the video - i thought inline straight was the way, bad vibration all speeds going to get it right now
Very interesting! Can't wait to get my driveline back in my 56 Chevy, so I can check this out! wonder what the angle is from the factory, as I am using factory mounts and rear end?
Great video but you didn't say how to find pinion angle of the reared sits higher the the transmission. I'm building a ratrod and it's really low. My rear axle yoke is definitely higher the the out put of the transmission and the motor and transmission is running down hill at 3 degrees. How do I figure this out?
Curious too..
I've always heard point the nose of the rear end up 1-3 degrees. If you point a go-pro at your 3rd member and go for a drive, you'll see that the pinion angle changes quite a bit under load.
? up or down
Excellent vid however I’m still not sure. I have 4 degrees down at trans -1degree at shaft - 4degrees up at rear pinion. Am I good? I have a coil over 4 link setup , it seems you say in the vid if the front and rear measurements are the same they cancel out, however mine are the same but one is up and one is down so I’m not sure if that’s what you meant by the same. Any help is appreciated. Car is up on blocks until I figure this out.
He said motor/trans point down 3degrees or less but no less that .5. Pinion points up, same spec but no more that 1degree delta, parralell is better. Your U-joints have operating range specs. So the distance between these parrallel vectors will change the DS angle. That is, you can be parrallel on a lowered or stock ride hieght street car and probably be well within spec for the u-joint since the distance beteen the parralel vectors is may just a couple of 2 or 3 inches, if that. But, on a rasied 4x4 truck, that parralell distance will be much greater and your DS angle very extreme.
I swapped a different make engine and trans into a car I have. I know my angles are off because it vibrates above 65 mph.
This will help me out a lot. 👍🏽
I'm going to look into getting this App so I can get the drivetrain dialed in correctly. 👏🏽👏🏽
Awesome! Happy to have helped! Cheers!
Any update?
@@squidusn71 Yeah, I have a 3" driveshaft spacer. It was drilled incorrectly, spacer was out of balance causing the driveshaft to be out of balance. So I had another one made. 👍🏽
@@72Dexter72Manley72 sweet man! I didn't know they even makes those things let alone people put one on and I've been wrenching for a while now.
@@squidusn71 Yeah man, people used to measure angles like that using plum bob's. But these newer tools make these measurements a lot easier. 👍🏽
Nice video. Thanks. My propshaft is only 6" long with quite a big angle. Will have a play with the 4 link settings.
Very nice work ,great video thanks for sharing
Thanks for the feedback John! We appreciate the support!
Very well explained!
I've heard the same thing from MANY other "professionals" as well.. They always say "Equal But OPPOSITE". Every single factory vehicle that we work on at my shop will have a NEGATIVE pinion angle-meaning pinion nose will be pointing DOWN towards the ground towards the front of the vehicle. NEVER HAVE I EVER encountered a factory vehicle that had the pinion nose pointing UP.. NEVER HAVE I EVER... I understand that people BELIEVE the two angles need to be equal and opposite to cancel each other out.. However, I've never seen that out here in the real world from any auto manufacturer... Can you explain why this is? These vehicles seem to be working just fine with many having over 200K miles and still on the original factory U-JOINTS. I'm really confused as to how this can be.
Fantastic this guy knows what he is talking about so well explained just one thing I didn’t get the name off that app as I am nearly deaf please can you inform brilliant video please let me know buddy cheers Larrysullivan in london
Thank you Larry! I really appreciate it! The app is the Tremec Toolbox app: www.tremec.com/menu/tremec-toolbox-app/ I hope that helps!
Start with the top of the carb. level.... Motor mount and transmission mount determines that....
Great information 👍👍👍
Thanks for liking!
Excellent video.
Loved your presentation. I have 71 GMC c10 truck. Do all those rules still apply with a two piece drive shaft?
Spot on 👍
🙌
Your operation angles are going in different directions under acceleration....car must have traction issues. Ignore the driveshaft angle, if the crank centerline is pointed down at 2.5 deg, the pinion should be pointed up 1 deg. That gives the pinion (1.5 deg) of room to move up under load and not put stress on the u joints.
May i ask you somthing,my angle at gearbox is 5deg down and rear pinion 16 up..i would like my rear axle with a shim..how manny deg do i need?thank you and greetz from the Netherlands
@@josbremer9966 What kind of car/truck ...what rear suspension...4 link ..ladder bar.. Leaf spring?
It is a suburban square body 4x4 1979..leaf springs and one sollid axle.
@@josbremer9966 I would say that rear end came out of a short wheel base jacked 4x4 ...? Anyway I personally would run it at 2 deg up pointing at the tail shaft of the gearbox, which is about 3 deg of pinion angle. If the truck is close to stock ride height.
@@jcnewbee8124 my truck is a chevy suburban square body 1979 and long wheelbase..it is lifted 6inch on 37inch wheels.front and rear leafsprings.thank you for thinking this over
Awesome video! Thanks
Is the center line from trans to differential also a factor of alignment? Later line trans to diff.
Good video you gave me useful information 🇦🇷
Awesome info. What happens if I set the angle up with a level frame and not actual road height. Does that change the angle
3 degrees, it's always been three degrees. What is the angle of descent of a jetliner coming in for a landing? ........ 3 degrees
How would you work it out for a 2 piece drive shaft
Spicer site has options for multiple drive shafts.
Great video!
I have a question. When you took your reading off of the balancer you gave the number but you didn't tell if it was positive or negative on the balancer?
Very interesting! Any hints on a dual pieces driveshaft?
Great work.
Good info!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! Subscribed.