Anti Dive and Anti Squat Explained - Rock Rods Tech
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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On this episode of Rock Rods Tech Jake Burkey goes over the second class in our Suspension 101 Series and talks about Anti Squat and Anti Dive and explains how they change the way your off road suspension or 4 link suspension reacts. Use these tips to keep your off road vehicle on all 4s because you can't win if you are not getting that power to the ground.
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ruclips.net/channel/UCbOUUPmH1YoFXHRQuZarA5A
Sitting watching this 8 years after it was made,very informative,thank you very much.
Glad it was helpful!
Dude epic vids I wish more people made straight tp the point vids like these
More coming soon!
Vince Galipo, I agree man. They should be more helpful to the new guys. It almost seems like they dont want anyone to now the their secretes lol.
Good morning, first congratulations for the videos, they are real classes. I watch all your videos and more than once. I'm Brazilian and now I'm going to start changing my JKU's suspension to do heavy trails. I have F250 axles and 40” tires. However, I really enjoy riding the Jeep on road and I have some doubts about the rear suspension. I don't know if I make it 4 triangularized links or with panhard. I was told that using panhard the car is more stable in onroad, is this true? thanks a lot
Is it it long arm or short arm currently? I would stick with a panhard for the road
THANK YOU! Everyone wants to make a speech with no visual!
Glad we can help
Thanks for explaining this complex matter in a relatively easy way. That paper model is just genius! Also the short clips thrown in to illustrate what you're talking about were really helpful... :-)
As someone mentioned: RC models might be a good help to visualize articulation and the effects on the driveshaft. Axial offers f.e. the Wraith rock racer and the RR10 Bomber (a replica of Randy Slawson's KOH rig).
+UncleManuel good point on the RC Rig
@@BustedKnuckleVideo I've been using this info to help with a mod on a rc, a Losi Baja Rey that I'm using for racing. Definitely good info for me to try some stuff to see if I can get it to perform better at the track. Ironically I noticed I had some driveshaft binding so this video helped me with that in addition to learning about the anti squat values I originally came to this video to learn about lol.
Thank you for taking the time and explaining how these things work.
You should go over proper suspension seat and harness mounting - I've seen some sketch stuff over the years....
+Kyle Quitter that is on the list for sure
+BustedKnuckleVideo So, are you trying to say I should use hose clamps instead of tie wraps to anchor my safety harness to the roll cage,...........from now on?
LMAO !
Kyle, just wanted to let you know we shot the videos today about harnesses and seat mounting. It should be coming out soon, just wanted to let you know sir.
I know this video is 3 years old, but its so direct and clear how you put this in practical terms its not even funny; this should be a mandatory video for ANYONE trying to understand how a link suspension works.. great video and great work man, keep it up !!
Thanks, we have some new videos coming soon!
If 100 is neutral is that also considered high for a rock crawler should I shoot for 110 or should I shoot for around 90%
Over 100 will make it rise when throttle is applied, less would make it squat. 80-90 is good.
Lol pirate 4x4 used to be good but definitely has become a joke when it comes to help.
There is a new forum that is gaining steam now that Pirate is dead. www.Irate4x4.com
Thank you Jake. I'm building a 1/10 scale rc rock bouncer on a 4 link and keep getting squat, roll overs.
glad to help
Anti dive is calculated slightly different, including brake area. It’s a braking force, not acceleration force hence the difference. Under acceleration you have anti lift in the front not anti squat. The tyres are rotating the same way, the axle housing opposing the same way, but the links are on the other side of the front housing.
Easy and fast way to understanding.I like your teach style,great and useful info only in every video.Can save a lot of time.Thanks.
thanks much more on the way!
I like the simple cardboard model. It made it very visual easy to see how pinyon angle is effected by length and separation of link bars
glad you dig it!
When you say anti squat a high anti squat what is high is 100% High I'm building a rock crawler what would be high for a rock crawler another words what would be ideal a little over or a little under 100?
under 100 for sure.
@@BustedKnuckleVideo thank you sir.
One more real quick question before I start burning my for link brackets in and fabricating them
I will have 10 in separation in the front axle and about 12 in vertical separation for the rear axle in order to play with my anti squat anti dive like you said I'm going to put multiple holes for adjusting my 4 Link bars at the chassis
My question is can I go down to 4 in separation or is that too tight and if that's not too tight what about 3 in separation at the chassis?
The main reason I ask is because I can't get more than 10 in separation over the front axle and in order to help me get my numbers right a little tighter at the chassis then the 5 and 1/2 in of Separation I have graft out on paper would help a lot so I'm thinking maybe three or four inch separation at the chassis for the front.
Thanks again for this video I've been staring at this buggy for about 7 years and I'm finally getting going on it
@@BustedKnuckleVideo I guess the short way of putting my question or another way would be what is the downside of going really tight vertical separation at the chassis if there is any downside to it I can't wrap my mind around why it would hurt anything but that's why I'm asking
Guys .. this it's awesome stuff .. glad to be the first one in say thanks and keep those tips coming .. another less interesting topic might be tires, and combination of boggers with SX front and rear or even when you groove them. Even tho I believe there is much more we can discuss about suspension, related to shock and suspension frequency for different applications.
+Tapage We have a ton on tap. Stay Tuned!
thinks iformation video jake
glad to help!
get a rc to use to show in scale . love it learned a lot thanks
+Arkansas andy not a bad idea
@@BustedKnuckleVideo these vids have helped me a lot with my custom scale rc builds.
CYCLOPATH same but I build mine out of lego
I’ve watched this five or six times over the past year. I’m finally about to start setting up my four link rear and three link front in my tj, mostly rock crawling with some steep hill climbs (typical Jeep crawling trails type stuff) I’m pretty sure based on what I’ve read and what you said that for my application I should shoot for about 100-120% anti-dive or as close to it as I can get with all the shit in the way. And it looks like with how I have it set up right now my anti squat is going to be about 150-160. I might be able to get it a little lower, but again space is limited, and separation at the frame at this point would mean lowering my lower mounts, losing clearance. Am I on the right track here? I’m building this by myself with no prior knowledge and no one around me that knows anything about it, so the internet has been my only mentor. Thanks for taking time to do this stuff bub. 👍🏻
100 is a good number
Great Info! Technique is a science. TRIAGE pronounced (tree-ahh-ghe) is a term medical first responders use when referring to the prioritizing of injured based on severity. The use of TRIAGED is appropriate in this application since it refers having prioritized critical points based on priority. Think french, Target (Tar-get) vs (Tar-ghey). You guys are awesome!
thanks!
In real world not a math problem the u joints can only go so far every thing has a real world limit hrs of day light example.
jump to 13:10 for cardboard model & basic angles & arm ht set up & length as it relates to squat.
So if I want to gas hop I need low squat value
yep
Please help. Im building a big diesel bog truck. Every truck like what I’m building I’ve seen, when accelerating they squat tremendously. I’m running 67” tall tires and the truck is a crewcab short bed 2500 ram.
My goal is when I am accelerating or hooked to another truck on the tug pad my truck doesn’t squat like everybody else’s but I also don’t want the suspension to look ridiculous.
Thanks for any help.
Anti squat is your friend in that case
@@BustedKnuckleVideo yes but with my instant center so high my link bars would be at extremely steep angles up to achieve this. The truck will be around 11’ tall. It didn’t seem possible unless the bars look ridiculous.
i am watching these videos to learn on my rc rock racers and monster trucks haha. awesome videos, love it.
That is awesome!
Great analysis and explanation, I was just thinking about building a lifted 4x4 crown victoria (6" lift on 30"-31's with an Atas II transfercase). I know hardly an off-road build looking more of a streetable ultra4 police interceptor build. I think that the wheelbase (roughly 114" wheelbase) and tire size (30"-31") is probably going to be way off. What do you think?
sounds like an interesting build
Ok class, pay attantion. Prof. Burkey has entered the room. Thanks Jake. I love the science behind these awesome machines too.
+naturelovertx needs a lab coat, class is in session
So a 2door TJ Wrangler with a 2" lift because it has a 93" wheelbase can't run 35" tires? I agree; I switched to 31s and the street squirreliness was noticeable, anti squat & dive effects decreased. I 'wuz wondering if totally stock Jeeps have suspensions tuned for the stock tire/4 link/ spring rate & shocks or if they can be improved with mods.
they can all be improved with mods, especially when you correct the geometry
Great video but I just can't get over the fact that the truck at 11:34 didnt even broke when he landed 🤯
Looking for advice. 05 Tj 3.5” rubicon express long arm, 1” body 38” tires. Currently has the radius arm in the front and I am switching it to 3 link. I plan on using the calculator to figure out where to place everything. What my question is, is what numbers am I looking for to make my front end not so light? It loves to lift the front. I am stock wheelbase and a stretch is not in the budget.
there are a lot of good threads on the internet about how to design your 3 link to work best.
great videos and information!!!!
+jeff young thanks more to come
Hi.i have a question.
Why toyota in 80 and 100 series use 5 link suspension? Why they dont use 4link with triangulated design instead of 5link and panhard in rear suspension??? Which one is better?
And Thanks alot for your good video.
they do a 5 link for better road manners and safety
hello, i have a question about adjusting my suspension arms
I do a lot of winter trail running and what I noticed is that I do a lot of wheel ops on the front tires and I would like to know how to reduce the wheelop without taking too much of my low traction in the rocks?
I have a 4.5 suspension with adjustable arm but on the oem brackets on my jeep jlu diesel
is sque I should watch more vote antisqwat or antidive pcq I have at least 125% antisqwat but more around 70/80% antidive
thank you
Long arm is your best option to prevent that. A good set of shocks might help bandaid it some. My Jeep JKU with short arm 4.5 kit never wheel hopped.
anti squat easy way ck I see it yeah no problem. 287 comment
You can tune for anti squat with air bags or electronic shocks. I don't like wheel hope. I added coil over shocks for anti dive. I run parallel 3 link upper wishbone that are eye to eye same length as driveshaft. And rear pinion pointed straight at output at ride height. Dropped transfer case 2" with a sye. Need to change front end uppers and steering geometry. One trip wheeling destroys the track bar.
it takes a lot of work to dial in a suspension right
With your scale model, WITHOUT changing the Antisquat, if you shorten the upper links it DECREASES the rising RATE of Antisquat through droop.
Thanks for the video. You do an outstanding job explaining the concepts. And you are spot on about the forum.
Thanks for watching, we have more on the way
So for a crawler, I'm thinking high anti-dive/low anti-squat, will pull both ends down. Also what about roll center on side hills?
roll center needs to be low as possible
Hi champ great films, _ heads up ever want to challenge the Egyptians to a pyramids build, ever do with facts ad materials and a good squad nice knowledge, cheers
Pyramids build?
I probably count for a quarter of the views. lol. watched these like 1000 times trying to figure out how making my 4 link work best
Hopefully it helps
Thanks I figured It out 😁💪
Nice job!
Do the upper link bars on a rear 4 link have to be at 40 degrees? My lowers are at 45 degrees but to keep the bars the same length I would need the uppers to have a little less triangulation. Is that ok?
You rule... I'm gonna 4 link my sammy soon... I have 4 foot links top and bottom and running 35s....
nice
center of gravity pnt clear enough, normal setup.
After installing a spool in the rear axle now I'm getting crazy bad body roll. Can you explain why
roll center might be too high
should make a video about roll cage strength design and proper gusseting seat highth and proper head clearance I see a lot of people on the web in forums build there cage without factoring head clearance , loved the videos very educational ,
Here you go- ruclips.net/video/VhbMd31Dvqg/видео.html
Chassis inertia (u said momentum) the wheels are trying to force the chassis over and themselves and them selves under the truck with the help of the housing acting as a counter-rotating idler sprocket, (imagine the truck, on the sprocket on the wheel stacked on each other twist the wheel forward with sprocket motionless other than rotation (idling) torque and linear force because the axle housing or differential (IRS) has the equal amount of force counter-acting on it (twisting backward/axle wrap) where your springs and or links are located on the drivetrain and the frame directly determine what happens to the chassis due to limitations of the diff housing’s rearward twist/pinion up, remember an old Chrysler with a pinion snubber, everything mounted on the differential housing or solid axle that is forward of the center of the axle on the same plane will be force loaded upward and rearward equally in an arc relevant to its distance from the center of the axle, the same for what is mounted rearward (9:00-3:00 either side) 12:00 to 6:00 (left rear viewed from the right of the machine) changing the elevation changes the upward to rearward force ratio (fore) and the to downward to forward ratio (aft)
Figuratively speaking, if the coils are mounted forward and significantly below axle center the engine torque will apply axle counter force forward and upward do attach the other end of the component where you want that force applied. Just ask yourself why and to what degree to suit your goals. I woukd illustrate but its lat-early! Man i gotta hit the rack
wow that is a lot of info
Sorry I was on a roll!
First thank you, I know this is an old video, so is my project, started 4 years ago. Accidents happen. Question, watching your cardboard 4 link the lower pivots at the center of the axle, what change is seen if you move it to a real location say 3-4" in front of the axle and below the tube center line 1"?
I am reading other articles stating make the upper arm longer than the lower to keep pinion angle directed at output as you said, yet stated in the same paragraph the rule of thumb is make the uppers length 75% of the lower.
Is the link length based on the frame mounting point as longer or the actual link length since the upper link mounts farther back and on top the truss and the lower mounts in front of the axle.
My upper links are 2.5" longer than my lowers but my lowers mount 3-4" further forward than my uppers. This is a daily driver/toy that started as a dual use toy. Again thanks for the time
good stuff on late model dirt car i had 3bar on rear whats the diff i won races thinkn bankn and forward bite
Great videos. Helped me a lot with my front 3 link and hoping to do my 4 link this winter.
4 link for the win
Trying to figure out how the 4 link calculator works .... did the rear just fine but the front is off the page forward the front axle . Tried all i could come up with .... any tips ?
good question, not sure what would make it do that
I had to run - numbers for my link lingth it shows up correct on the layout
A scenario you explained at 9:01 spoke to me. I built a long arm 4 link + panhard front for an XJ recently which is having a hop issue when climbing uphill. When designing the long arm suspension, space was the ultimate constraint, but we tried to triangulate the lowers by 15* and triangulate the uppers maybe 5-7* around the oil pan, but it still needed a panhard bar. The uppers are nearly flat (parallel with the ground) and the lowers are sloped down a bit from the frame to the axle mount. When I plug in the final actual measurements, the anti-squat summary calculates to 102% (using 4BarLinkV3.1d). Is this 102% value the "reason" why the front axle hops when climbing up a hill? The scenario is you get to the crest of a hill but you need to keep spinning the tires, hunting for traction, to get over that final crest. Instead, the front tires just spin and hop, lifting the tires about 1/2" off the ground per hop, and it's nearly every rotation of the tire...so imagine some pretty violent and annoying hopping. If I reduce the front's anti-squat number to somewhere in the 80% range, will this help or hurt the issue?
Good question. I will consult jake on this one
I appreciate your cardboard cut out display. I am a visual learner and I have to actually see it work to understand it. I build 1/10 scale radio control rock buggies and this information is priceless...👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
visual always helps
Great presentation..Once I have an idea for the mounts I like to fab temporary mounts and use black pipe with nuts tack welded on for the rod ends then you can pull the springs and cycle the suspension with jacks to figure out what you have to change before chopping up the real stuff. Just be careful
axles are heavy.
always fully flex out the suspension to check for clearances
Ur cardboard model of the suspension is awesome!
It helps it make sense
Radio control rock crawlers is how I learned triangled 4link geometry...
I was in IHRA ProMods where 4link works the same but for a different purpose and FULLY adjustable..
.....
THIS IS 2 dimension "antisquat"... your articulation will change that value.
..
ROLL CENTER !!!
triangulation creates 2 imaginary points in space where they rotate from.
Parallel links...can also be used, top or bottom in combination with angled.
>
I have 10 radio control crawlers. 20yrs ago I started experimenting. It was rather Wright Brothers type,, using weight and angle to reduce our biggest issue. Torque twist !
###
To explain this all I think a 3D model would be best. You must have some tube and links laying around.
There is a lot to it, but when you get it right it makes a world of difference
let me start off by saying I'm a jeep guy, weekend warrior at best. one thing I've heard thrown around on the forums is really simple and wanted to know what your thoughts were. they simply say 4" separation at frame and 8" at axle with equal length uppers and lowers. opinions?
you cannot have set numbers that work for any vehicle. There are too many variables for those numbers to stay true under all circumstances. you will need to plug your numbers in the calculator to be sure your building the suspension properly
Nice skill jake. Thank you video matt
Thanks for watching!
this was awesome. I'd love to see a breakdown of professional suspension comparisons or something like thr genright EXS suspension. antisquat, rollcenter etc
surely they know their stuff
can I run a triangulated four link on the street or is this just for off road only?
PLenty of people run them on the street
What about double triangulation?
Death by Fart this is about double triangulation
@@BustedKnuckleVideo Oh. . Lol well I was curious about the set up where your upper control arms are set up like in this video frame to center of axle but you bring lower control arms upper mount to center of the the frame on a cross member
XX
I think that's the best explanation I've herd ever. THANKS SO MUTCH !!! I researched the topic for months and used that calculator to guess where my links ended up. Now I have a better understanding of what to expect from my buggy. It's not done yet. Keep up the good work
+Ma Roder your welcome, im glad i could help!
I liked that model, but I'm thinking about going the full degree and making it 3D and a full model so I understand how it all works
Go for it
Awesome Tech Video on anti squat! I was wondering if you were going to do a Video on Engine Horsepower and wheel speed. It seems that some guy's don't have the power or wheel speed or momentum to get up the Hills like you and the other high horsepower Buggies. It sucks because I see em struggling.
There are so many variables to get wheel speed, horsepower, trans, t-case and axle ratio all play a factor
dude i appreciate all your videos. your videos are well done and all the info is priceless. im working on my own build following your videos however i cant find what mods you did on your axles before you went to the custom 14 bolt in the front. were you running a spool
spool for sure
Hi there biggggg fan of yours!!!
If possible can u make a video on suspension calculations on grid sheets and softwares later all together or suggest a link for that???
we have more suspension videos coming soon, there is a 4 link calculator on google that is helpful though
Great videos! Could you touch on bottom triangulated 4 links? When the top bars are straight and bottom bars are triangulated?
+Brandon Cobb We only do double traingulated on rock bouncers
Wow, thank you man. Now I know what I don’t know 🤔
There is a lot to it
The lack of separation of the upper links on a radius arm style suspension is what I would assume makes them 100% anti dive and not tunable .
yeah its not a good design
If you’re using a 4 link as a lift does the center of gravity need to be taking now or when the vehicle is at new ride height
ride height
@@BustedKnuckleVideo and how do you know where the center of gravity is when you are doing a solid axle and other modifications during the four link build to make sure everything is set where you want it
Building a 4 link that can take a beating, how can i determine most efective mounting angles or positions for the shocks and springs
thatll be a whole nother video. Straight vertical is how they are built to be mounted.
Awesome to see there is a god LOL Not worrying on how we sound just help us as needed . Cool that were not alone on this topic & showing us the stuff we want to know :)
more tech videos with Jake coming soon!
This is the single most informative 4 link video ever created
Facts
so for street use i would want 0 antisquat/dive to keep my caster angles exact at all times, truck is not a hot rod and will see lots of street use. mostly low speed off road trail riding, mud, and dirt, not much climbing as its all flat country here. does this sound right,,, this will be my first time building a 4 link
the rear im going to go for just enough antisquat to keep the ass from diving under full throttle acceleration on pavement
tires are right at 40" and the arms will all be as long as possible while keep the triangulated angles no less than 40* as you stated in your last video
i want an off road capable truck that dont beat me to death to drive it, currently its leaf spring all the way around and rides like a lumber wagon and is so stiff it dont even need swaybars even at 10" of lift
sounds like you have a good handle on it.
0 anti dive will cause the vehicle to dive when the brakes are hit. You want a higher number in the front to keep the nose up when your on the brakes. Other than that, your right on
Your the best bro, dont hate, educate. Sometimes you sound like your speaking Spanish to us laymen's.
there it a lot to know about suspension
@@BustedKnuckleVideo well thanks for the insights brother
John Doe glad we could help
Busted Knuckle/Jake,
I've watched your 4 link explanation and your anti dive/anti squat videos numerous times. The videos are definitely helping me understand a link suspension in greater detail than before. I have a leaf sprung solid axle swapped GMT800 Sierra. I'm planning on linking the truck within a couple years. My question...when I go to measure the height of the CoG, do I use the stock height or the height of whatever it measures to since my truck is lifted? Thank you.
it will be different since you lifted your truck
@@BustedKnuckleVideo Thank you for your response. I'm doing a lot of reading on Pirate and other forums. I'd guess my truck is lifted around 9 inches. Once I feel comfortable enough to link the front end, I plan on lowering to around 6 inches of lift. I figure I'll set the truck at the new lower ride height I want and then use the CoG height (either centerline of cam or top bell housing bolt) when I'm ready to use the 3/4 link calculator. How does that sound?
Thank you for your videos and your willingness to help and answer questions.
0:22 so true. funny how even the pros know about the pirate pricks
yeah Pirate isn't good for asking questions
I haven't found the forum useful in years, ask a simple question get flammed, ask a hard question nobody knows, call them assholes or flame back get banned. F'n useless.
the least I could do was drop this comment for an awesome video!
that cardboard HP was awesome
lol, thanks for watching!
Great video!!!!
Thanks!!
These vids are quite good and grab the main concepts in a way easy to understand both in your visual aides, and your descriptions of actual scenarios on an trail obstacle or a
Mcourse.
It got a little ambiguous in how AS/AD work at high or low figures, almost describing them the same, but the your trail scenario examples draw a better mental pic.
If I could add, the caster changes throughout suspension travel are low on priority in most cases. This is articulation, not jumping or desert. Much of what you described is more prevalent in a front or off set axle at the ujoint, But is almost nonissue for centered, especially a rear when caster means nothing, only a ujoint bind would be of concern.
The entire axle needs to do these huge changes, not much of this happens in articulation and should be less of a concern if you are forced to mount a link shorter/longer/etc because of available space on the chassis.
A simple limit strap at the axle center or above the diff wi t hamper flexing, but will keep the driveshaft happy. You can use it for loose attachment of ARB lines, brake lines, etc safely protected from over extension as well.
You can’t feel AS or AD numbers changing from 40-55%, it’s likely the vehicle won’t even yield a performance difference. It’s 40-130 that’s apparent and has elements of concern. 40 being great in the rear, but not so much as a fronts where brake dive would be an issue. Yet 130 would be wasted propulsion forces in a rear suspension as lifting, in front it would work as a traction aid and a force in opposing brake dive.
More important that anything for the most part is not how instant center relates to CofG, but roll centers can totally foul up a vehicles handling and if not a dedicated crawler, a potential disaster.
If you don’t respect and understand roll centers and buikd them flat or at least out of oversteeer, then stay the F@ck off public highways!
Way more important than an As/AD or caster changes through whole axle compression/droop.
A short arm TJ lift of 4+” is a great example of how everything can be ruined in a lift kit that only lifts. An 80 series landcruiser at higher lifts(so I’m not being a racist, lol) quickly has similar issues and both are hugely evident if you use the online spreadsheets by Dan Barcroft (triaged) described in these videos.
Lastly, when hitting a rock or log on the trail, it’s affect on suspension would be vaguely the change in instant center to new contact patch(a raising of instant center and AS/AD affectively, but there’s an element of tangent not accounted for in that, the closer to parallel and inline with instant center the less impact that creates on vehicles motion. But a 3 foot boulder at 20 mph is what it is, lol.
Long (32-38”) flat links are always and have always been good advice. 25% of tire diameter isn’t relevant if you build the link mounting points at a ‘strength’ level consistent with the increased torque they would absorb with less seperation. Or vice versa. But it’s a safe figure for generic brackets of a36 .250 from anywhere and your average welder.
That could easily be 6” on a 40” tire safely with more elaborate brackets supported in multiple planes (not two lower link tabs welded downhand on a 14 bolt axle tube for example)and wrapping around axle tubes further.
Again, nice to see someone making videos that truly represent concepts so anyone can relate instead of bad info on a google search from ill informed web Nazi’s!!! Hats off to you sir. I gotta subscribe and watch them all!
Wow you wrote a lot, I'll send Jake over to answer.
Yeah, sorry, I was on the toilet and lots of time because last nights dinner was huge!🤪
Finally someone who grasps things in both front verses rear driving axle and the push/pull on the links working opposite. not some boner shooting for the same figures on both from total ignorance.
Cool description on the conflicting way some designs work(or kinda don’t) in east coast hill bouncers in loose dirt vs west coast style of say ‘back door, or wrecking ball just over wheelbase length waterfall launches.
Paper model was excellent. Really describes everything exceptionally well. Thanks!
Thought that was a nice touch
Great video. 1 question though, when inputting the tire diameter is it a good idea to take into account that it might be smaller than the printed diameter as well as how much it will squish down with weight on it at a given psi? Supposing I know the distance from the ground to my axle centerline with all variables considered, could I multiply that by 2 and call it my tire size to get the most accurate instant center? Thanks
+Jack Nicholson It is just a guestimation. Your tire size will change as you air up or down and hit obstacles.
+Jack Nicholson take the measured tire diameter for the tire size input.
If I want to fix a particular value of anti-squat or anti-dive to my race car how to decide that
research
Mr. Knuckle, Help Me out bro..Honestly this vid was kindda too intense for me,
should i start tuning from a Hi or a Low antisquat on a 97 Cherokee with a hi perfomance V8 that will be used on 4 Low for Sand Drags ? ( with 33" paddles tires and mud terrains also).
also what about the front diff, start with Hi or Low antidive?
thank you, thank you..
High and high
Gottcha, i will start high and then tune it from there..
I’m building a 600hp bbc powered leaf sprung trail rig... how do I tune for anti squat and anti dive on that?? Traction/ladder bars put in the correct places?? But then I sacrifice ground clearance with some vulnerable bars down there
You don't. You swap the leaf springs for a properly setup 4 link.
Leaf springs are a "Load bearing device." You squish them from the top, then apply enough force to turn the tires, but without peeling out. Leaf springs are a "Static" or "Stable" device for steady drivers.
Cal-trac bars are meant to stop the leaf springs from getting wound up and hopping on a street vehicle. Technically, that makes leaf springs a no-anti squat 4-link, but that might be an insult to 4-links.
These Busted Knuckle guys are more experienced than the Engineering Explained guy, and are giving you very valuable advice. A 4 link with multiple holes is a formidable implement.
On the calculator what is a "high antisquat #" , mid # and low #" just looking for an example. Great vid.
Hacker 4 Life OSS think of 100% as neutral.115 would be high, 80 is lower.
@@JKGearandGadgets thanks that helps
Wow! That sure made it a little easier to understand. Going to follow you some more and see how much I can learn. Thank you!😳🤔
More Tech vids coming soon from Jake!
Great videos, I have a 1979 Scout II project that I plan on building to be my daily driver and weekend trail rig. Im down to a rolling chassis at the moment. I find your videos very helpful but Im lost when it comes to choosing shocks. How do I choose the correct location,and position of the shock? Then choose the correct shock for the application? Also does the shocks range of travel effect anti-squat/dive and design based on desired ride height? Is there a video that you have or plan on making to add to your suspension design series that may answer these? Thank you
Good questions we will dive into these very soon
BustedKnuckleVideo sounds good looking forward to it
I'm still having a hard time understanding this in a long arm jeep application. On the front most companies have a choice of a single sided radius arm or a 3 link type set up. I get that the absolute center changes in these setups but what exactly does that do? The goal is to use anti squat to reduce unloading on a climb. But in a normal street driven weekend warrior type build is this overthinking it? I'm not racing ultra 4 or looking to do the baja 1000. Is the 3 link the new trend so everyone wants it even if they dont need it? Is the reduced potential to bind the u joint with a radius arm more of a benefit over the anti-squat?
radius arms bind by design
@@BustedKnuckleVideo true if it's a dual radius arm but there are kits out there that have a radius arm on one side and a lower control arm on the other. Thus eliminating the bind in the same way as a 3 link.
Yo u need to go to the next level and get some computer controlled shocks like F1 had, programed to the track, or the "magic body control" in the Mercedes S class which uses stereo cameras to measure a minimum of 2mm of road anomalies up to 70mph
Or yo a simple option would be a valve bypass valve on the rear shocks hooked up to a botton on the steering wheel. When you launch off an obstacle u can hit it so ur preloaded suspension launches the back end up!
Or ya if you could control the valving by switch front and rear you could do some cool stuff for sure.
Hit the button to launch and then hit another button to increase the valving over normal so you land and absorb everything smoothly and put that power and weight directly into the hill.
Yeah because all of that would hold up to off road racing.....
Включи субтитры на русском please
не уверен, как это сделать?
Thanks brother that was the best video an example of this! Even for 2020!
glad it helped
I wanna find out what the anti squat/dive a full leaf truck has! Lol!
good luck!
BustedKnuckleVideo, its obviously a joke!
Great info! Thanks for taking the time to dumb it down lol! Even though I'm 3 link front and 4 rear already, the suggestion of a multi mount link mount for shake down is great! I'd like to see the pro/con of suck downs when time is limited and changes need to be made when mother nature throws in her two cents. Thanks again
+miked90123 suck down winch is a good idea on steep climbs
I wonder if I’ll get a response from him. Here we go, I’m making an off road buggy. I have a retired sprint car frame a sb350 th400 trans and a 203 tcase. Where my axle will be mounted is right at the rear of the frame which leaves me with a rear driveshaft that is 18”-20” long. What would be the best set up to keep my shaft from grenading. Front axle and suspension is a little easier as I have more room and shaft length to play with and adjust. Thanks in advance for any input
there are a lot more variables needed to make that decision
BustedKnuckleVideo it’s basically gunna be a universal rig. Not a whole lot of rocks but mud and trail riding. Braking trails like a go cart on steroids. I have 40” loader tires that will be goin on it. Not sure what else you need I just don’t want to have to keep tearing it apart and rebuilding it. I love all yer videos and watch them religiously. You explain things so well and the visual aids are awesome. I appreciate the response man. Thank you
BustedKnuckleVideo I wish I could show you a picture of it but I don’t think I can on here
Great job presenting these technical details. I'm curious, is there binding in the triangulated 4 link when articulated one wheel high the other low?
If done correctly there should not be.
8:15 when he rolls him Over and he keeps rolling 🤣
it happens
Jake knows his stuff.
One comment though: around 7:00, "when you hit a rock ledge,..."
When a tire hits a ledge, the contact point is no longer the point you've drawn the line to the IC from. It rides up and forward, in essence messing up you carefully plotted anti-squat geometry. Only big tires or long links can save the day in that scenario.
Great stuff.
+denelvo good point
+denelvo good point, and i am not sure that anyone has ever calculated the change in anti squat based on the point of contact with the tire to an obstacle. From physics, rotational force does not care what point on a circumference the force is applied. You would still apply the circumferential torque to the lever arm which in this case would be the theoretical point in which the 2 bars meet in space. Id be interested to see if i am correct but i believe the calculation would remain the same and anti squat would remain the same. you got me thinking...
+jake burkey now you've got me thinking as well! :-)
Yeah, rotationally, it doesn't matter, torque is torque. And the IC doesn't change, but the point of contact between tire and earth does. So the last line you'd draw, from contact patch to IC, would end up higher and come closer to the CG, for more anti-squat.
At least, that's how it plays out in my head. But I feel the need to fire up SolidWorks...
Weird, eh, if 'ground level' is no longer ground level? It's a pretty important datum.
Thanks for being a straight shooter. Hope to met you at Boo Bash next weekend.
Riot is done for the season and For Sale while we build the new Riot 2.o
HOW TO DECIDE RAKE ANGLE OF AN ATV WHICH GOVERNS RECCESSION AND PRECESSION?
good question