Suspension Basics 03: Watts Link, Triangulated Four Link and Panhard Bar Explained
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- There are multiple ways of keeping a rear axle centered under a vehicle frame. Using a miniature truck frame we show 3 of the most common designs used to locate an axle and keep it from moving side to side.
Also in this video:
How the Watts links work and a demonstration on why the Watts link does NOT cause the axle to move up and down.
How triangulated 4 links work and why you should build one.
How panhard bars work and their side effects.
My Wife's Mighty Max will be getting a parallel 4 link with a Watts link.
Subscribe to see the construction!
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I’ve been doing suspension for 30 years now... I’m pretty sure I couldn’t explain it better... well done sir...
Thank you, my man! Cheers!
Guys like you are invaluable! I wish I could buy you guys a beer or 30 for sharing with us dummies!
I have also built suspensions for years and that demo model was exactly what I need to explain to customers how it all works. Or I can just refer them to this outstanding video. Thank you.
Thank you, Kayla! No beers necessary. That was thanks enough! 🙏
Yes! Please do share @donziperk! Happy to be of service my friend.
I'm definitely not tired of these "school" type videos. I find them very helpful and your models and drawings are amazing.
I know how much time they take. I really appreciate them.
That’s good to hear. Thank you, Josh. It’s hard for me to make this type of learning interesting. I appreciate you back!
Let's not forget how nice his voice is... No homo, homies.
Haha! Thank you, Jack. 🙏
Your videos are great. I thought I knew enough to do my parallel 4 link install with what I knew. I think in two short videos you just saved me some major mistakes and haven’t increased the difficulty of my plans at all. Thank you.
Man, I am so glad I found you. Next year I'm going to bag my 06 chevy 4d 4x4, built lbz duramax 3500 dually. I'm going to have to learn more about that shopping cart. I really enjoyed your video. RUclips university thank you. I'm learning.
I’m rewatching this series before I start my 88 S10 4link setup. I love the way your mighty max is set up so I’m ordering a Thornros. Super lift triangulated 4link I want to use 30” bars for the least amount of pinion angle change. Love the videos! Keep em coming buddy!
How do you only have 26.1K subs? RIGHT?
This information is so accurate and understandable all while being articulated very well. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Bryan! 🙏 Very much appreciated. The subs are comin! Magic is happening. Garage Fab was at 23,000 less than 3 weeks ago. 😳 A little patience and a bunch of hard work and we’ll be doing just fine.
@@GarageFab
Sub count is not important…
The effort combined with your clear desire, energy and talent to teach & demonstrate are what is !
Remarkable !
Thank you my friend! I’m not OVERLY concerned with the numbers, however, that flashy sub count is one of the few metrics that shows that people are interested and want more. It makes all the work seem like it hasn’t been wasted.
Thank you again! You’re appreciation is appreciated! ❤️
you are the king of explanations. took your info to the rc cars world, I am very new to this. thank you
Yes! Awesome to hear someone outside of the Mini Truck scene getting value. Cheers!
Man am watching this over and over and over again... am so glad I found your channel.. I need to start doing my own suspension work, am sick to my stomach on waiting for my trucks suspensions to get finished ( 3 trucks in 3 different shops) there is not a single responsible professional shop around every one is surviving taking half of the money from somebody to complete somebody else’s project and it’s the same BS all over.... am a pipe welder and can fabricate as well and finding the time is always been my biggest struggle...
I feel you you, my man. Time is rare. But sounds like you’ve about had enough crap and you’re about to discover a bunch of time. I’m excited to see what you do. 🙌
First off, this is an excellent video, I love the model as well, that's awesome :)
The big trap with a triangulated four link is the forces; the longer the four link upper bars the higher the forces, but the forces in a triangulated four link will never be as low as the forces in a Watt's link. In the case of the model you've presented I'd guess that the angle of the links is something in the order of 30 degrees off the vehicle axis. That means that the link forces will be approximately double those of the Watt's link. You'll end up with a higher risk of linkage collapse as well, because you've got a longer link than parallel four links, with the added forces associated with both the drive and longitudinal forces as well as the lateral force adder. This can substantially increase the chance of long column collapse. Additionally it'll put a lot higher loads on the chassis attachment points. It'll also potentially limit the life of the joints.
IMO the best linkage setup for anyone who's not smashing it with a CAD or specific suspension design program is probably three link with watts or panhard bar... It's a lot more fault tolerant than other suspension designs for live axle. If you've got the knowledge to look at joint compliance for a four link, then a parallel four link is better, but without correct bush design it'll bind and can damage bushes or mechanically lock at certain positions.
Triangulated four links will also create lateral axle movements, but this movement occurs when you lift a single wheel.
Knowledge is among the greatest gifts that can be given, and you have a gift for giving it. Love that visual aid! Almost want to go build one just to play with. This channel is gonna be a huge success.
It is in fact a really fun adult toy. I’m hoping I can use it to demonstrate front suspension as well but I worry it’ll be too small. I predict I’m going to have to create a more life sized model. Time will tell. Thank you my man! I’m definitely trying. 😅
Totally agree. Nice work Sir. You def have a knack for teaching.
Much appreciated my friend. 🙏 See you in the next video Monday morning!
I've never modified a truck's suspension or ,what I'd really love to do, built one from scratch. But this is the sort of stuff that I love thinking through in my head. Imagining how to constrain movement in every direction except the one you want to maximize it in while keeping the design as light as possible. Looking forward to watching more the series.
You and I are the same my friend. I don’t need much to entertain myself. Just a challenging thought exercise. Happy to have you! 🍻
Amazing videos, extreme high quality! thanks for sharing!
it would be awesome to see other types of linkages, such as 3 link or IRS and how it compares to 4 links.
@@lui472 Thank you my friend!
I agree. I have plans to build a vehicle that will be able to accommodate all suspension styles so that I can real world test them. Don’t hold your breath though. That’s pretty far in the future. 😬
@@GarageFab sounds just fantastic, I will not hold my breath but I look forward to see your future content. I subscribed and all 😁
A thing that I still struggle to understand with the triangulated 4 link is how the body roll works. I know some put sway bars on, and some don't as some geometry can lock your roll. And I can't figure out the geometry or rules. I'll probably try and make a model with the 3d printer to figure it out. 😅
I am an offroader that usually watches jeep related channels. Yet you provided the best explanation of a triangulated four-link that I have ever seen. Thank you!
Thank you, my friend! These videos were intended for fellow Mini Truckers, but it’s been really cool to hear that people from other scenes are getting value from them. Very much appreciated. 🙏
Don’t know how I stumbled across your channel but happy I’m here and a new subscriber!
Yes! Thank you. I’ll be following you as well. I’ve been wanting to learn about powder coating for a while now.
LOVE ALL THESE VIDS!! CAN'T WAIT UNTIL YOUR BACK. THANKS
Absolutely brilliant. Exactly what I needed to learn. Thanks!
Love the tech, illustrations and editing. Keep it coming!
I just wanna weld something!
Thank you!
DUDE! That scale model is a GREAT idea to demonstrate how each of these types of suspension work. One that I didn't see mentioned is the parallel 4 link with a wishbone (what I'm running in the Buick). It's a combination of the parallel 4 link which gives you more adjustability for traction and the triangulated 4 link which centers the housing in the vehicle. None the less, this is a great explination.
I can't say I've seen a wishbone used WITH a parallel 4 link before I saw yours. It seems to be pretty common in the drag racing scene tho.
I've seen a lot of folks use a wishbone AS the upper bars. Pretty much the triangulated 4 link but with a single Heim at the point.
How does adding a wishbone to a parallel 4 link affect body roll? A lot of Mini Truckers like to have side to side adjustability. I can't imagine that's something you want flying down the drag strip.
Thank you, Brother!
I knew I was right! Nobody in my searches ever addresses what seems to be the norm in all triangulated kits, that the top bars are tooooo short ( even before considering the angle). Now I just need to find a kit with proper length bars.
I imagine that’s probably a challenge. I’ve learned over the years that frame widths vary so much it would be pretty much impossible to create a universal Triangulated 4 link. As the angle of the bars change the length would need to change as well.
It seems the only way to really get exactly what you need would be to make them yourself. 🤷♂️
@@GarageFab Thanks and Great video productions! You make me laugh!
Strange... I just got a comment notification from you but no comments could be found.🤔
Amazing video. I ha e searched countless hours trying to learn about suspensions for pro- touring and Autocross trying to decide the. Best style of suspension to run and I've been spinning my wheels before finding ur videos. I have seen some pro-touring built chassis with torque arms. I'm running a 2dr 01 Blazer. Which do u think would. E better for pro-touring? Torque arm, triangulated 4 link, 3 link, parallel 4 link? It would be cool to see you do a video explaining the difference between pros and cons of a Torque arm and triangulated 4 link and a 3 link. Thanks for everything you do. My new favorite channel
The entire reason I found you was because of the old sbc ram 50 these are great
Sweet!! Stick around, Richard. That truck (and it’s offspring) is coming back better than ever as soon as my Wife’s second Gen Mighty Max is running. It’s gonna be all kinds of fun.
Hello algorithm, this man here! He's the on that's supposed to be on the front page!
Haha! I don’t know who this “Al” guy everyone is praying to. I don’t think he exists. But heck, keep me in your prayers! 🙌
Really great video! I have a question about the triangulated 4 link. Does the angle of the bushing on the triangulated link bars affect anything?
For example, sometimes the bushings are parallel to the axle (so the bolt going through the bushing would be parallel to the axle) and where the link bar meets the bushing there is an angle.
Sometimes I see setups where the bushings are perpenducular to the link bar (so the bolt going through the bushing is perpendicular to the bar) and the bushing is at an angle compared to the axle.
Not sure if that makes sense or not. But I was wondering if there is a difference between these setups?
Hey Brad! It absolutely makes sense. You worded it perfectly. Also this is a topic I am constantly debating with people!
First let’s start with the fact that polyurethane bushing material doesn’t like excessive deflection.(compression, stretching, twisting, etc.) Too much and they split, or smash and don’t rebound, or they get soft. Poly bushings are intended to rotate around the bolt like a hinge.
When you mount angled bar bushings so that they are parallel to the axle, the bushings will rotate around the axis’ that pass through the bolts as the suspension cycles.
When you mount them perpendicular to the bars, these axis’ don’t change, but because the bushings are angled the axis’ pass diagonally through the bushings.
As the suspension cycles on this style, the bushings are seeing unnatural deflection.
In essence, the bushings are being pulled to the side.
This is acceptable on static height suspension vehicles. If setup properly, the bushings will be at rest at half travel. Poly bushings will last longest of they’re pushed and pulled on straight. (The way they would be if the bars were straight.)
So this is the ideal setup for static height triangulated 4 links. Bushings perpendicular to the bars.
Here’s where my opinion comes in. When you slap air suspension on something you now have double or triple the amount of suspension travel, upwards of 12 inches. Even when set up properly, (bushings at rest at half travel) this is pushing the poly bushings sideways far beyond their intended deflection.
By mounting the bushings to the angled bars so that they are parallel to the axle, their movement is natural except when the body is leaning. This is how I believe a bagged/juice triangulated 4 link should be set up, and so this is how I build them.
Just know that this design will cause much more force on the flanges of the bushings as the weight of the vehicle shifts to the side on turns. Bushings are not designed for this either, however from my experience they last much longer than their over-deflected cousins.
This was long winded. Hope it made sense. If you need clarification, lemme know.
Cheers!
Is this why you are moving away from the 4 link design that is on the truck from the previous owner?
I’m so proud right now, Chris. 😃
That is the exact reason I switched. I could have just changed the upper bushings to suit my preferences but I wanted more content for the channel.
Another reason I felt a switch was needed was the original builder made the upper links adjustable (threaded) but didn’t install any Heim joints. This caused the bushings to continually loosen the jam nut.
I'm fairly dense without visually seeing so the fact that you took the time to create the model is awesome very clear and easy to understand and follow along.
Thank you for that, Ashley! It’s good to hear it wasn’t wasted time. I’ve been considering creating a similar model when we get to front suspension but it’ll be so much more complex and challenging to build. But if it helps, I guess it must be done!
You are appreciated! 🍻
I just found your channel. You do a great job of explaining suspension. I’ve only watched 2 videos so far.
Thank you, Chris! There will be many more to come. Cheers!!
I’m rebuilding the suspension on my 4runner (off-roader). I’m doing a solid axle front axle swap and 3 link with a panhard. I will eventually revamp the rear suspension and make it a 3 link with a panhard too. Pinion angle and anti-squat and anti/dive are huge concerns.
Sounds like a cool project! I’d like to see the front axle when you’re done. I work on Toyotas all day every day and have never seen a front solid axle 4 runner. 😳
@@GarageFab I don’t know how to send you a private message. I can send you some pictures of my progress.
Hit me up on Instagram @GarageFab!
Really great overview. I watch a few off road fabrication channels, and they usually don't get anywhere near in-depth as you on this stuff. See lots of panhard bars too! (I'm surprised how many given these vehicles have a fair bit of travel.) One common upgrade to the high end builds is a triangulated 4 link. Now I understand why. I always thought it was just for more travel.
Yep! The triangulated 4 link is a superior set up! It works great on everything and it’s really quite simple. The only reason I don’t often use it is it’s really quite simple! 😂
This is awesome I need the video of you doing this on your mighty max
It’s in progress! Check out the Mighty Max playlist. So far the crossmember (“shopping cart handle”) and link bar tabs have been installed and the link bar making video is in production.
Great instructional video
Much appreciated! Hope it comes in handy.
This was insanely informative. I'm a freshman mechanical engineering student and this reminded me why I'm interested in the first place. Thank you!
That’s awesome! I have zero official education. (Building education anyway. 😂) I’m just a Tinkerer so I envy you. Good luck and thank you back!
I'm building an 84 Rx7 for circuit events and want to put a panhard bar in place of the factory watts link. I've fitted a Toyota hilux diff with custom 4 link and won't be adjusting ride height on the final setup. Could you please do a tutorial on the best way to attach the heim joint to the diff? The body mount should be pretty straight forward. Glad I found your channel, great content. Thanks mate.
I likely won’t be making a video on the topic since I don’t see anything in my list of future projects that will require a panhard bar… But, I’d be more than happy to try and walk you through it, or at least present you with some ideas.
Have you got an Instagram account? Send me some images of what you’re working with to @GarageFab. I can send you back some images of panhard bars that are currently in the shop.
@@GarageFab cheers for the feedback. I'll see if my wife can help me with the instagram message as I don't have it.
Another great video
Thanks brother!! 🙌
Great video
Thank you, Stephan!
Nicely done.
Thank you, Joe!
Tankyou #garagefab for the información
Your fiend #diablocustomschoker ✌️
O star to buyl a clasic Mustang 69 and i need the información to your vídeo👍 o preciated tankyou very much
Anytime my man! Happy to be of service. 🍻
I love your videos! I found them a few weeks ago, when trying to figure out what a pan hard bar was. Yesterday I bought a 69 c10 to bag thanks to you lol. You made things really easy to understand!
One question that never got answered in this video it why you’re switching to the parallel with the watts link from the triangulated 4-link. Is it easier to set up or is it a clearance thing? I would be very interested in a video on setting up the triangulated 4-link especially after seeing your video on the u-joint oscillations.
Anyway thanks again. You definitely deserve the sub. Hope many many more are to follow!
Hey, James! Thank you my friend. 🙏
The triangulated 4 link is one of the best (if not THE best) setup for air suspension. It gives you truly straight up and down movement no matter how much lift your suspension has, and doesn’t require an axle locator (like a panhard bar or watts link)
My reasoning for moving away from the triangulated 4 link probably won’t be very helpful to you.
Reason one: I’m a RUclipsr. Leaving the suspension alone would make for a really boring video! 🥱 I wanted to change things just so I could film it.
I chose a Watts link for the same reason. A panhard bar would work, (though not recommended for air suspension) but a simple bar isn’t nearly as interesting as the Watts link.
Here’s how my decisions actually progressed; I planned to install a turbo motor so I wanted to install a stronger axle. I also wanted to install 5 lug wheels so I opted for a Mustang GT axle.
I wasn’t thrilled with how the original builder of the truck built the upper link bars so I decided to redo them since I had to redo the link bar tabs on the axle anyway.
I was starting the channel so it seemed like a great excuse to change everything up. I really wanted to do a Watts Link video and the triangulated setup doesn’t require one.
So there you have it.
I can’t wait to see what you do with the C10! Best of luck!
Aaron ... another brainstorm I have for Tee shirt is the black truck at begining of your tutorials with the MANKANDY GARAGE swag ... ?
Absolutely. I’ll work on the art.
When I'm fabbing something, I refer to it as a "Shopping Cart Handle" to keep people guessing. It's especially satisfying when someone agrees with me.
Hahaha! 😂 There are so many incorrect terms that just make more sense than whatever the real term is.
Cheers, Bob!
Just found your video, awesome,and very informative. My question is,axle link bar placement and frame crossmember placement. 30deg or 45deg? And link bar length difference? Like 70% longer lower bar? I'm linking up my 68 fairlane fastback.
Hey mark! Thank you! You are very much appreciated. 🙏 Tell me a little about your plans. What type of suspension? Parallel 4 link or Triangulated 4 link? Static or adjustable height? What do you plan to do with your Fairlane? Race it? Just cruise the streets? Things vary a LOT with different types of suspensions and uses. Things also change from car to car because physics change.
I can try and steer you in the right direction but I’m not sure how specific I can be. But I’m happy to try!
So can you do a video on the 97 Chevy Extreme. They have a unique setup and maybe you can explain how they work. I have a chassis like that that I’m swapping a 49 GMC onto. Cheers man, very informative thanks
Can you do a video on triangular 4 link suspension. Similar to the watt link video in your channel.
Have a kp60 Toyota starlet and currently doing a diff swap and need to weld on the tabs. The axis are not in line
Please and thanks in advance.
Well explained. Probably the best I've seen...but what about setups where the top bars go towards the rear of the vehicle? I've seen some weird setups over the years, and those are the ones that make the least sense to me.
If you’re talking about lower bars extending forward and uppers the opposite direction, it’s totally ok that it doesn’t make sense to you.
Because it doesn’t make sense! Even in a static height vehicle, the pinion angle will change so drastically and so rapidly it would destroy U joints like crazy with insane vibration. I usually try to be kind with my words but that setup is just stupid. 🤦🏻♂️
Thank you for the kind words!! Very much appreciated.
Can you explain more on the upper and lower axis for the triangulated 4 link on how to figure that. I’m about to build one on a 50 ford with airbags. Thanks any help is appreciated love your videos.
EXCEPTIONAL! JUST WHAT I WAS WANTING TO LEARN!!! I first found you when a client shared a video of the headboard you did where you used the black magic patina. They wanted me to use the same product on some table bases I was welding up for some wood tops they were building. Glad to see you again! Great content, editing, video/sound quality, all the things!!!
Thank you for the kind words, my friend!
How did the table bases turn out?
Glad you found the channel and I look forward to seeing you in the next one. 🙌
Cheers!
Just recalling my time on fabricating suspensions, my strong preference was always to reverse the shown watts link so the centre pivot is on the chassis and ends on the axle. Since the effective roll centre in a watts link suspension is the pivot point of the bell crank, this keeps roll centre consistent with the body and you can also make roll centre adjustable either by using multi-hole bracket or setting up with a cable/adjuster so it can be adjusted from cabin or in pit stops. In the example shown, roll centre changes during axle movement. As for panhard rods, these should be an absolute last resort - truly terrible.
I like that idea! It took me way too long to picture in my head. I might have to give that a go on my miniature truck model.
I’ll agree with you on the Panhard bar. At least on adjustable suspensions. I don’t mind the panhard so much on static height vehicles.
Thanks for Sharing, Peter!
I was considering a split bearing around the axle housing snout and having a front mounted watts link but what you’re saying may also work the same way to prevent crowding of the cover area.
I’m just having a hard time picturing it based on your description, is there a single link bar and one watts type link per side or two link bars and one watts link per side? If it’s just the one does it only include the top half or both?
I have also pondered how to make a Watts link clear a drive shaft for front mounting. The best I came up with is a dual propeller setup with 4 link bars. That one is a little too complex to explain in writing.
As for Peter’s reverse design; My Watts propeller is mounted to the axle and the link bars to each frame rail… His would look identical but the propeller would instead be connected perhaps to the center of a crossmember behind the axle and the bars would be connected to each side of the axle. Hopefully that made some sense.
New subscriber right here! Good stuff
Thank you Shawn! See you in the next one. 🍻
I've got those same link bars! I'm building a 1/10 6x6 SCX 10 (I or II, I'm not sure which one yet, I've got parts for both).
I’m a lil jelly. I’ve been wanting to build one for some time!
If you love axels look up what is used in top spec tarmac rally Ford escorts mark 2 over here in Ireland we use watts link and now you can ajust tow in the new atlas fully floating axels available these days.
Have you ever done or seen a 4 link with panhard bar and coilovers put in place of leaf springs, coil springs and shocks on a 1959 Dodge Pickup?
I like these videos keep them coming.
First video in a while drops today at 6pm Pacific!
Thank you for the kind words!
to effect a longer arm for most suspensions shunt the top section back, it has the efect of a longer top bar for most usual suspension travels, it does however place the pinion nose in an S formation of travel. Also for a more sturdy "triangulated 4 bar", just create a solid A frame and so the axle has a single pivot point (whether a ball or rose joint it makes no odds).
In all cases the suspension will travel in a curve, it's physics of tying one end to a fixed point, because on a Watt's link there are 2 tied ends the curve is different above the medium and below it, so you will get a S shaped travel, it might not be very pronounced but it's goin to be there. It's good that you highlighted this but only effects in extreme upper and lower positions. The longer the centre pivot bar the more pronounced the S will be.
All suspension setups have disadvantages, it's finding the one you can live with it's disadvantages or the disadvantages don't come into play on your amount of travel.
Very well said sir....
Thank you, Brandon. 🙏
Awesome video man
Thank you, Lim. 🍻
GM pretty much pioneered the triangulated 4 link system, at least mass produced it. On most GM since 1958, the upper links are splayed outwards from each side of the center section to a frame rail mount and the bottom links are splayed inwards to a frame rail mount at a lesser degree. Also, the upper links are shorter. In the case of the 58 to 60 Pontiac, the uppers are 13" long and the lowers are 24" long. This setup keeps the pinion pretty much pointed at the rear of the transmission throughout normal articulation. The beauty is no traction bars, nice ride and many traveled over 100,000 miles with no pinion issues. Don't forget, many a NHRA and AHRA track records were held by Pontiacs. As fro my question, it would be cool if you would build a scale model of this type of triangulation.
That design has been around for so long because it’s perfect for it’s intended use. Why change something that works so well? I steer people away from similar designs on this channel because I focus mostly on adjustable height suspension vehicles. As in, vehicles that can drive an inch off the ground one minute and 8 inches a moment later. With this design, pinion angle quickly becomes a problem in adjustable height vehicles.
The pinion angle pointing at the transmission is more of a side effect than a goal. It’s more important to match U joint angles front and rear, keeping the pinion angle and transmission output shaft parallel. The change in pinion angle in the GM style design is caused by the use of different length in a non-parallel design which takes advantage of instant center principles.
This change in pinion angle is ok because it is so minor and so brief as the suspension will quickly return to ride height.
Using this design in adjustable height vehicles creates much more severe pinion angle misalignment and for prolonged periods which will quickly damage U joints.
So as for the miniature model I can’t imagine when it would become relevant in the channel but I suppose there’s still a possibility. Cheers!
@@GarageFab I agree. I am a new subscriber just starting to go through your videos. Since I know nothing about your projects, I thought I would mention a system that works not realizing you are totally into things I would not do to a vehicle. The end result is cool for sure. Much innovation is required. As for me, I am planning out a copy of the Pontiac system used in the early stages of this style suspension for my 1956 Chevy. It will be a couple years before completion as this is hopefully a frame off resto and the rear suspension will be my most radical improvement. I will continue to watch as you hit many topics of interest. Always good to learn new things. Thanks.
Well welcome, Paul! Hopefully you’ll find the channel useful still. There will be a LOT of information that everyone needs to know including a video I’m working on about drive shafts. I’d say most things cross over but people that push there suspensions beyond their intended travel need to follow a whole new set of rules. Good luck on the build my man!! 🍻
@@GarageFab I will be following the channel and thank you.
Can all the link bars be short? Say 18 inches or so
Got my answer in your other videos. Thank you
I’ll answer anyway in case someone has the same question. Yes, you can have short link bars as long as your overall design doesn’t cause your driveshaft to move too much. The important thing to understand is the shorter the link bars are, the more the axle will move forward and backward in a given amount of suspension travel.
In a static height vehicle, (traditional springs) the suspension won’t travel much so short bars could be acceptable.
In a bagged or hydraulic suspension vehicle it’s generally better to have much longer bars so that the vehicle suspension can travel up and down 8 to 14 inches without the drive shaft pulling out of the transmission.
The total arc of your link bars for your expected amount of travel cannot exceed the usable amount of driveshaft slip yoke.
Cheers! 🍻
Thanks for the info!
Anytime my friend!
Mükemmel görsel ve en iyi anlatım teşekkürler efendim.
Nazik sözlerin için teşekkür ederim! değerlisin arkadaşım. 🙏
Question: Using the triangulated 4-bar link setup, can you attach the angled links away from the rearend? (Pretend you don't have a driveline)
Short answer: Yes.
More confusing answer: With or without a driveline, you can absolutely reverse the triangle. Here’s the catch; The point at which the angled linkbar’s meet is the “Roll Center” for the rear suspension. This is the imaginary point that the chassis and body of a vehicle rotates around the rear suspension as the body rolls side to side while turning.
(I recommend reading a little bit about Roll Center)
By reversing the triangle so that the link bars meet at the front, the roll center is then further forward, which changes the “Roll Axis” (This is the axis around which the entire vehicle rotates and is determined by the locations of the front and rear roll centers.
All this nonsense changes handling a little, but for most people (non race car drivers) they wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between the two triangle orientations.
hello I want to make my 4link and I don't understand the pinion angle, how do I adjust this angle? could you make a video explaining exactly how to configure these angles in a 4link, thanks your videos are nice
Working on that video right this second, Fabiano! It’ll be a few more weeks because I’m taking my time to get it right. I’m excited for it. Until then, I’ll leave you with this… If you’re running a drive shaft with two I joints, your pinion angle should match your engine crank shaft/transmission shaft angle. If you’re running a Double Cardan joint at the front of your drive shaft, your pinion and drive shaft should be straight at half travel.
The next video will go into detail and explain why. Cheers!
I have to say, I’ve built countless rear suspension setups and this video was amazing! Not sure there is a better way to break it down and explain it!
Thank you, Mike!
I've been watching your link geometry videos so far and I love them! Thank you so much! My only question is what determines the length of the lower link to start basing everything else off of? Maybe you'll discuss this in a future video?
Thank you, Andrew! I do plan on including that in one of the next couple videos right after we weld link bar tabs onto the crossmember. In my process, the link bars are made to fit your vehicle so you won’t know the lengths until just before you need to install them. My process goes a little like this:
One of the first things you need to do when starting the rear suspension, even before taking the factory suspension out, is mark the frame where the rear axle is positioned. This mark should be pretty close to center in the wheel opening. Later you can determine if this mark is where the wheel will be positioned at ride height or when it’s laying on the pavement. (Personal preference)
Second thing is building the front crossmember where the link bar tabs will be. Ideally, on adjustable suspension, the goal is to make the link bars as close to the length of the drive shaft as possible. Usually the best we can do is just make them as long as we can by putting the crossmember directly behind the cab. There will be a video explaining why soon as well.
Third step is welding link bar tabs to the cross member. Now if you position your axle where you want it, you can determine the length of the link bars by measuring the distance from the holes in the front link bar tabs to center of the axle. Once link bars are made to that measurement. Only then can you put the bars in place and create link bar tabs for the axle.
Hope this helps. Explaining clearly in text is much harder than video.
@@GarageFab I'm actually building an offroad application, so minor differences here and there haha, but everything you've explained so far and in this response as well has been a HUGE help. I'm following along perfect so your explanations have been great. So basically I'm gathering lower link length should IDEALLY be equal length to the driveshaft (which makes sense for plunge and pinion angle), although typically we can only make them as long as practical per project platform.
Us offroad guys typically mount the lowers to the outside of the frame rails and somewhere under the cab, so it sounds like I should make the links as long as possible without hitting the cab at full bump, while keeping in mind the geometry for pinion angle to decide upper link length, and may have to shorten up lower link length for optimal geometry.
Looking forward to following videos! Really enjoying the wealth of knowledge.
It sounds like you understand perfectly. Luckily most drive shafts have a slip yoke, so matching the link length to the drive shaft isn’t mandatory but it’s still a good thing to keep in mind especially if you expect a lot of travel. Over-look this tidbit and you might find yourself ramming the drive shaft into the trans or pulling the drive shaft out. Both would suck.
Keep in mind that there’s a lot of important info you likely won’t get on my channel since most of my knowledge is rooted in air suspension.
Things like instant center go out the window when you install parallel bars which may or may not be important in off-road scenarios. Make sure you talk to folks with more knowledge than me in that department.
Don't forget a 4-link with a wishbone locator. That's what I run.
If you don't mind sharing, little more details for the watts links, at what height do install links/tab is it at full lock up.or lay out. Love the details on video
Hey Luie! There's some complicated math to set it up absolutely perfect but you can get a watts link that works just fine by setting the vehicle at half travel (or ride height on a static height vehicle) and then installing the watts link bars so they're both level with the ground and the propeller (my name for the center link) is about 10-15° creating a Z shape.
The correct geometry would be that the propeller would be at the same but opposite angle with the vehicle at full lift and fully compressed as it would be at half travel.
Very difficult to explain clearly in writing. I’ll be doing it in real life in a few weeks and there will be a video in the event you haven’t already tackled it by then.
@@GarageFab I really appreciate the quick response, all the pieces of info really helped me. It's my first time installing watts link. Thank you
My pleasure. If you need any guidance hit me up on Instagram @GarageFab. Cheers!
Can you explain the triangle four link.
Question isn’t there a maximum swing angle it permits since the higher or lower it swings away the distance wants to increase thus limiting the swing angle.
Please explain
Sorry my friend, I’m not fully understanding the question. Mostly I’m not clear on what you mean by the increasing distance during the swing.
The most common way triangulated setups are created causes the bushings to deflect unnaturally. I design mine differently for that reason.
Could you try and clarify? Cheers!
@@GarageFab The upper link bars are at an angle with the axis of the bushings per link bar being parallel
Therefore if one has to disconnect a link bar on the axle side and leave the other end mounted to the frame. The trajectory of the link bar let’s say at horizontal too vertical would cause the distance of the link bar to go further away from the centerline of the vehicle as the link bar on the axle end moves upward.
Imagine this happening on both sides
The link bar on the left will want to pull the axle to the left and vice versa for the link bar on the right
So to me there should be a permissible limit that is allowed that won’t rip off the mounts or bend the link bars. Unless I am getting this 100 % wrong
The Toyota kp60 has a setup link that and many other videos on RUclips with the triangular 4 link
I hope I didnt make it worse
Very well explained your video I will make it in my c10 In this way thanks for making a thumbnail I am Brazilian I don't speak English But I managed to understand well
Obrigado meu amigo!! Espero que os vídeos ajudem. Mal posso esperar para ver o que você fará com seu C10! O C10 nos United States parece muito diferente. Gosto muito da sua versão. 🙌 Boa sorte!!
Amazing video , but im confused by one thing. When you said with panhard bar you want to keep the bar level with the ground if you have static ride height vehicle so the arc effect of panhard bar is lessened. But Why are most oem panhard bars not setup like that? For example FIAT 131 has panhard rod at the back and during static ride height when car is sitting the panhard rod is angled upwards instead of being level with the ground. Whats the reason for oems going with that kind of panhard bar setup? Also another question , i ve read before that panhard bar exists because bushings deflect and if we have a race car with rose joints instead of bushings we dont need a panhard bar is that true? Kinda seemed wrong to me after you showed how suspension moves laterally when you werent using a panhard bar and also no bushings
I happen to like the titan wheels Thank You very much . No really Thank You very much 😂😉
Hahaha! Whoops. Seriously tho, that offset. 😍
I understand what you’re saying..:: leaf springs
My 2014 Ram 2500 crew cab tradesman has the 5-link rear suspension (coils no factory air) & is riding rough on all bumps, it’s violent. Sounds like metal on metal like it’s bottoming out but it’s the same as when I had cofop shocks now with Bilstien 5100 it’s making the same noise. Leveled 2 1/2” & on 35” tires where should I look for potential suspension problems? Feels like it’s in the rear suspension
I’m not sure how much help I can be without putting eyes and hands on it, Brandon!
Has it always had this issue or did it develop over time? The only things that should affect ride quality are the springs or the shocks. A rough ride then would be springs are shocks that are too stiff.
Noises can come from anywhere. Shocks (Which in theory you’ve already eliminated) shock bushings, spring perches, Link Bar bushings, bed mounts, spare tire, fuel tank mounts, even a cracking frame. (I’ve seen it)
I’d suggest starting in a parking lot with speed bumps and see if you can verify for certain that you’re dealing with either the front or the rear.
Another potentially easy check would be pull the shocks out while the truck is on the ground. (Shocks generally keep the axle from drooping too much and allowing the springs to pop out) It would be crazy bouncy and unsafe to drive on the road but it may help you determine if your issue is shock related or not.
Lemme know what you find!
Sir I learned a lot. Thanks. My car is Land Cruiser 100 GX trim without AHC.
I lifted only 2 inch, my car front tyres are screaming when I turn. The wheels are aligned. This only happens when I am turning. What could be the problem?
Hard to tell without seeing it for myself, but lifting it may have affected the Ackerman. The Ackerman principle refers to a design that causes the wheel on the inside of a curve to turn slightly sharper than the outside wheel. This is important because the inside wheel follows a smaller circle than the outside wheel.
There’s a possibility that the lift is affecting this, essentially taking your front wheels out of alignment only while turning.
with a triangulated "four link" do the top links have to meet together ? and in your example the links meet together at the diff center , can it be opposite that the links are far apart on the diff and meet on the shopping cart handle inboard "but not together ? narrowed rear say: 30 inch diff and 20 inch at mount point ?
You basically described the Ford Mustang. The angled bars do not need to meet. (or even be close) What matters more is the angle of the bars. The closer the bars get to parallel with the frame, the less stable the axle will become left-to-right. I often recommend positioning the bars at no less than 30° from the frame rails, unless you plan to use stiff bushings and/or a panhard bar/watts link.
The triangle can also be reversed as you mentioned with the front bushings closer together.
Most people won’t notice any change in handling but professional drivers might. The imaginary place where the angled bars would intersect is the roll center for the rear suspension. (The point that the chassis rotates as the body leans in turns.) By putting this point further forward you’re changing the roll axis of the vehicle.
If you would like that to make more sense, I highly suggest researching “roll center” and “roll axis”, but as mentioned, the average driver wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
wow , you are blissed with incredible knowledge - amazing that you take the time to answer with such complete information "hats off" or sharing , thank you
My pleasure my friend. I’m happy to be of service.
Thank-you 🤜🏾/l am researching the link process for my chevy S-10 and the youtube(Al) brought me to this video--so this video reads over a year ago and l want to be careful in saying you just invited us to10 years worth of knowledge in a 12:36 setting. So not to possibly start a comment war...and that's not even close enough-l will be going back to the start of your videos and thanks again. When l actually do start my s-10 build the 4-link will be my choice 💥💯
You are appreciated my man! I hope you find the videos helpful.
Can’t wait to see what you build! 🙌
what about dual triangulated four links? is there a benefit? and if so, would that just be more sturdiness?
I don’t have much knowledge on that one. Why sugar coat it? I don’t really have any knowledge on that one! I haven’t built one yet, I haven’t worked on one and I haven’t driven one! But from my knowledge of triangulated 4 links, doubling up on the triangulated bars would certainly increase the lateral stability of the axle. Beyond that, I can’t tell you any other benefits.
A question I have is where the vehicle’s rear roll center is on that setup. On a typical triangulated 4 link, the roll center is where the two angled bars theoretically intersect. That said, I have to assume then that with two triangles the roll center is midway between the two intersecting points. Without knowing that for sure I’d recommend the double triangulated 4 link only on rock crawlers and slow moving vehicles.
Sorry if that was babbling. Cheers!
The 'A' style top arms are generally limited by the body of the car.
A panhard is simple and generally very functional. BUT at ride height should be angled down away from the body so when the body comes down it is giving very little rear steer. And roll centres must be taken into account as well. The longer the better. Used by Nascar up until now.
Watts link is fine in theory but in practice can be an instrument of the devil. As are some OEM ones, more so if the car is lowered. Roll centre height is again a real problem. The pivot can be made height adjustable to adjust roll centre. Again as wide as possible. A proper rubber bushing in the pivot gives a little 'flexebility' and resolves the pivot point trying the break which they do, regularly
You are a wealth of information! I don’t agree with a lot of it, but still! I’m certainly not a master of suspension design. But I am a great student because I’m always looking to learn. That said, what type of vehicle benefits from an axle sharply being forced to the side over bumps by panhard bar that was mounted at an angle? And how does a panhard bar affect rear steer?
Also the “why” would be greatly appreciated in regards to the Watts being an instrument of the devil. Perhaps I should stop using them.
Great instructional videos. Well done, but I have questionS; I’m restoring a ‘53 International Harvester panel truck which we discussed in the past and I'm considering
Sorry, Frank. You’re breaking up…
Excellent! I think. Your little model set up in the last configuration i believe is what i am looking for. I have a 2016 yukon that i am going to lift. I want to keep the bottom links straight and possibly longer if needed. The uppers i want to triangulate. Do away with the panhard bar. Thank you sir
Nice! Best of luck my friend. Lemme know how it works for you!
Jim Fays Watts Links are awesome just sayin'. Watrs link is best for solid axle ,old tech... I prefer irs now :))))
Old tech indeed! But I’m hearing of a lot of Autocross people going back to solid axle because of IRS’ slow response in transmitting weight to the rear tires when accelerating out of corners.
Even knowing that, the next truck project will have independent rear. 👍
I need to bend the brains of the knowledgeable peeps on here. Im trying to bag or air shock a golf cart with 24" wheels but im stuck..... i can't figure out what I want \ should do. I can't put pictures on here but have some to share if anyone is willing to help
Send over those photos to either Instagram @GarageFab or email to GarageFab702@gmail.com.
I’d be happy to help where I can.
Super informational explanation.
Do rear link have to match the front links in length or can front be shorter because of lack of space.
I already build rear links the length of upper and lower is same length about 1 meter.
Glad you enjoyed my friend!
Front links won’t have anything to do with the rears. In general, the longer the better, within reason. Longer bars will minimize the amount an axle moves forward and back as the suspension moves, but link bars also need to play nicely with drive shafts. The closer the link bars are in length to the drive shaft, the less the driveshaft has to move (via the slip yoke)
4 wheel drive trucks will usually have a shorter front drive shaft so shorter Link bars would be expected.
Hopefully this makes sense. If not, I have a video planned that I’ll call “Third Links” that will talk about the relationship between Suspension components and non suspension components like drive shafts, CV axles, steering Tie Rods etc.
So far you have made it simple to understand, What I want to see is left right wheel travel as in off road or even un even ground conditions. How far can your desk top model left tire lift and not twist the frame using a 4 bar set up? Most 4 bar set ups are for drag strips and level roads. Lets try for a 10 inch wheel travel design. Thanks.
Thank you, Rex! One of the most common link bar set ups for off-road (especially rock crawlers) is the Triangulated 4 link, or even the Double Triangulated 4 link. Two main things that prevent articulation is the bar ends and the chassis/body. If you use Heim joints with misalignment spacers on the bar ends, you can get a crazy amount of articulation. So much that the tires would hit the fenders, and without fenders the axle would hit the frame.
This is the problem with my model. The 4 bar setup would allow lots of articulation, but the frame would get in the way of the bars full capability.
Another thing that limits articulation is the lateral axle locating mechanism. (Panhard bar or watts link) this is what makes the Triangulated bar set up so good. No lateral axle locating system is needed. You can find images on the Internet of rock crawlers with the rear axle 90° from the front axle. So crazy!
Great channel.
Quick question.
I installed a ladder bar racing rear suspension like 16 years ago in a Camaro. I followed the manufacturers instructions, but that was when I was only going to use the car for drag racing, and didn't really understand pinion angles, and matching angles, u-joint angles and all of that, except for in a drag racing setup.
I installed the front rod end of the ladder bar assembly in the middle hole of the frame before I welded the brackets to the axle, so I would be able to adjust it either way, if I needed to.
Fast forward to today.
The Camaro is a low rider, street cruiser with rear tires around 29" tall. I adjusted the ladder bar all the way up to give it the most pinion angle possible, to match the angle of the front u-joint (pinion nut /u-joint higher), but I'm shy at around 0.8°
Is this a cause of concern?
Here are my measurements ;
Engine/Trans = 2° angled down from level
Drive shaft = 3° angled up from level
Pinion = 1.2° angled up from level. (u-joint side is higher)
My front u-joint sees 5° angle and the rear sees 4.2°
I think I want to see 2° up for the pinion angle, to match the front angle.
I'm getting a custom stronger drive shaft made up this week.
Is there an easy mod to make on the ladder bar itself (like cut and reweld) to give me an extra 1 or 2° to get me back into the proper range of adjustment?
This is a pic of what the ladder bar and bracket roughly looks like ;
www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ivenue.com%2Fautoweld%2Fimages%2Fnostalgia5b.jpg&hash=4647cc0a524a9b064f32d33f3ba35cc5
I'm not about to cut off the axle bracket and rotate the axle, and reweld new brackets on. I might be inclined to rework the ladder bars themselves though.
Any suggestions on how to get 1 or 2° more out of them?
Sorry for the delayed reply. I’m having trouble keeping up lately.
Quick answer:
Let’s start by saying, if you’re not feeling any vibrations, leave it be! Your angle alignment is quite good. You are correct, 2° for both the trans and the differential would be perfect, but your current measurements are the next best thing. Pointing your diff down slightly is great if you decide to romp on it once and a while. I don’t know what type of ends are on your ladder bars, but if they’re rubber or polyurethane, you can expect them to deflect a little on acceleration causing the pinion angle to move closer to proper alignment. Luckily there’s a margin for error with drive shafts. I usually recommend matching angles within 1.5° in street vehicles, (preferably with the diff down) but I’ve seen worse alignment with no signs of damage or vibration.
So I think your .8° difference is better than good.
If you really want to adjust to “perfect”, does your ladder bars have the adjustments near the axle that the one in the link has? That’s your answer. If it doesn’t it wouldn’t be too hard to install adjustments.
But remember, if your angles are perfect at rest, the diff may rise away from perfect under acceleration, which is when alignment matters more.
@@GarageFab thanks for the response. Yeah my bars are like the picture. Solid rod ends.
I just had a new drive shaft made and installed it. Have not tested it yet tho.
Your right, the pinion will want to climb the ring gear, rotating it probably perfect. I maxed out my adjustments already.
I will test it out soon. I only had a very minor vibe, hope it was from the old shaft.
Thanks again
On the watts suspension, if you mount it so the natural ride height of the vehicle has the link bars parallel and the centre piece that is attached to the axle the equal to the vertical distance between the place where the links mount to the chassis, shouldn't that illiminate the S-shaped movement? By my figuring, if setup this way, it should create perfectly (or as perfect as you can get with tolerances and stress added) straight up and down movement.
I'm gonna go build a model so I can test this, it seems like it should work perfectly.
You are correct. It sounds like you are describing a static height vehicle. So in that application the small amount of suspension travel isn’t enough to push the Watts link to the point where it develops the S shape. But on vehicles with adjustable height suspension with significant travel, it’s impossible to completely eliminate the very mild S, but setting it up as you mentioned will give you the best results.
I have a 2 link setup on my 2000 s10...The link bars I'm using replaced the leaf springs.. can I still make it a trianglated 4 link..
Using your existing 2 link? I’d have to see it to be sure, but it could be as simple as adding rod ends to the ends of your two link and adding the triangulated bars. So short answer, yes… likely.
Love these lessons as much as the builds. There's a lot of people in the mini truckin scene, new and old, that can benefit from knowing the basics. Build it right the first time.
Agreed! I learned a bit from Mini Truckin Joe's RUclips back in the day and I was super grateful. I always kinda wanted to be that guy.
Thank you, Brother.
Can you do a video on the wishbone suspension setup. And is it true that it can be used in High performance in a straight line (1/4 mile run, street racing)?
I think it’s VERY commonly used in drag racing. I will certainly be doing a video but it might be a ways down the road. I’ll be building a suspension sample truck that can be equipped with every popular suspension setup and tested. I need more space before starting that project.
In short, the wishbone suspension is nearly the same as the triangulated 4 link except in the wishbone, the angled bars are bonded together as one non-flexible unit.
I'm building front semi triangulated 4 link on my build, my question is do i need track bar with hydraulic power steering.
I need some clarification on this one, Burhan. What do you mean by “Semi triangulated” I can tell you that if your angled bars are NOT at least 30°from your frame rails, a tack bar/panhard bar might be a good idea.
Unless I misunderstand, steering setup will have nothing to do with your suspension.
I bought a 70 mustang. It is set up as an old school drag car, narrowed 9 inch and ladder bars 18 inches apart. I am getting rid of the narrowed 9 inch and the ladders. This sounds like a good solution for the new 9 inch. I am not messing with the narrowed frame on the car. What do you think.
Solid axles mounted to the chassis via independent links bars are becoming one of the most preferred setups in drag and Autocross. Some folks will even argue that it’s better than IRS. I can neither agree or disagree with that statement but I can say you can’t really go wrong with a 4 link. 🙌
@GarageFab I like the triangulation 4 link. I need the lengths calculated. And, really appreciate you replying.
What about the NASCAR style truck arm suspension, firebird 3 link.
BullyBilly.
These videos were created for Mini truckers and builders of adjustable suspension. Then RUclips distributed them to EVERYONE!!! Definitely an unexpected blessing.
The NASCAR two link is a great system. No doubt about it. But it’s absolute garbage when installed on a vehicle that can adjust it’s ride height between 0 and 12 inches. It causes the pinion angle to vary so extremely that it destroys the driveshaft Ujoints.
It’s a similar thing with the Torque arm suspension. It dominates at the drag strip, but again, install it on a bagged vehicle and suddenly there’s problems!
You said "pan hard" bar, LOL. It's a French guy's name, pronounce it "pa-NARD".
Truth. Unfortunately for René, It’s been so commonly mispronounced that pan hard, has become the accepted and most common pronunciation. In fact pronouncing it correctly would likely cause even more confusion and even more grammar police comments.
Thank you for the input, Dan! 👊
Thanks very much.
Anytime my friend! 🙏
I'm running through the basics play list and hope you address why you chose what you did over what was already in the truck.
I’d love to explain. What specifically are you referring to?
Laying out rear suspension for an f100. All around daily use. How do i figure out how long my lower arms need to be?
On bagged stuff, I typically build mine as long as I can. That’s usually placing the front bar bushings right behind the cab.
The longer the bars, the less the axle will pull forward as the suspension goes up and down.
Here’s a useful nugget of info. The amount the slip yoke in a driveshaft slides is determined by the difference in length between the driveshaft and the link bars. So in theory, if the driveshaft was the exact same length as the link bars, the slip yoke wouldn’t move. 🤔
That said, trying to get your link bars as long as close as possible to the driveshaft length would be ideal for adjustable height suspension.
Do u have any vids on lowered trucks I have 2021 f150 with massive vibrations in drive line
Have you seen this one yet?
Suspension Basics 06: A Better U Joint Driveshaft Video
ruclips.net/video/YgNZfIR-8Ng/видео.html
It’s a good start. We can go from there.
so this parallel linkbar setup constrains the axle so the wheels cant independently travel. On an uneven road all that travel must be taken up by the front axle...
Definitely not true. There is nothing in any of these designs that limits articulation (independent motion) except the choice of bar ends. For example, Heim joints move much further and more freely than a polyurethane bushing, however all bushings allow body roll. It’s up to the builder to choose what bushing type that best fits the intended purpose of the vehicle.
Hi i need help in my Suspension how we can talk about that i have a project with a datsun 1200 and a motorcycle engine
You can hit me up at GarageFab702@gmail.com or Instagram DM @GarageFab
I hope will see this after so long ago it was posted. But with triangulated 4 link in your opion does it matter if the point of the triangle is on the axle vs on the frame? I am asking as I dont have room to put the point on top of the differential. Thanks!
Hey, Jerry! The first and most important question is “Will you be racing?”
That’s a common problem for a lot of people. The Mustang differential is cast steel and shouldn’t be welded on, so the only options are to build a truss or reverse the angled bars as you’ve mentioned.
The point where the angled bars intersect is the roll center for that part of the vehicle. The roll axis of the vehicle is determined by the relation between the front and rear roll centers. So by reversing the angled bars, the rear roll center is moved further forward, this alter the roll axis.
Race car drivers could be able to detect this, the average person most likely would not be able to tell the difference.
So summarized, you would be changing geometry potentially negatively. But for the vehicles I’ve built… it’s perfectly acceptable for a daily driver.
Hope this helps. Cheers, Jerry!
On end of control arm can the axle mounting end be wider than bushing and shimed with washers as i intent to add larger hym joints in with long arm four link
I’m not sure I understand fully. I interpreted that two ways. One: When using a polyurethane bushing, you can shim it with washers but the sides of the bushing needs to be fully covered and supported. So a 2 inch diameter bushing would need at least 2 inch diameter shim washers. See this video in case you need clarification.
The DOs and DON’Ts When Installing Polyurethane Suspension Bushings
ruclips.net/video/8Ex0dGojHZI/видео.html
Bonded rubber bushings (OEM bushings) don’t need to be fully supported but the inner sleeve must be clamped tightly between the bushings tabs.
Two: Heim joints must also be clamped tightly. There are attachments for Heim joints called misalignment spacers that allow them to be mounted in wide tabs, but that’s not the purpose. The real purpose is to allow the Heim joint to swivel a lot more.
Lemme know if I answered your question.
A very easy way to dertimine the length of the triangular mount arms just use the Pythagorean theorem the arm length is the hypotenuse. and you can measure the other two side lengths. its a very easy calculation.
Very true! I don’t understand the Pythagorean theorem yet, (or most of the maths for that matter) but I do realize it would help greatly in a lot of what I do. My current method is to draw things out on the garage floor and measure them.
There are a lot of drawings on my floor. 😆
Thank you my friend!
Very well explained... I really appreciate the way you explain.. Thank you..
Thank you my man!
someone said something about a 70% rule for triangulated 4 links some tbh inch like the bottom bars have to be 70% of the length of the tops
That’s a decent rule of thumb for static height vehicles, Gabriel. (Though it’s the other way around. Top bars are 70% of the lowers . Meaning the upper bars are shorter.) That difference in length, in addition to angling the bars so that they point towards the lower front of the vehicle, will increase traction a bit off the line.
It’s my opinion, though, that you should ignore that rule of thumb on adjustable height suspensions. I often suggest sacrificing a small amount of performance for the sake of preserving driveline components.
Great video, excellent display models! Thanks for sharing and posting!
Thank you, my friend. 🙏