Downfall of Targaryen power (Dragonpit) Explained ASOIAF Lore
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- Опубликовано: 22 янв 2023
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Downfall of Targaryen power and the Dragonpit Explained in Game of Thrones Explained A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones/ House of the dragon
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BONNIE GRACE
Last Breath of Freedom
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Learn all about the prophetic dragon dreams of House Targaryen here ruclips.net/video/iP6cCjN1zMo/видео.html
I like the theory that it was the Maesters that poisoned the dragons considering their hatred of magic
Would make sense to hate it seeing their destructive power. They did the right thing.
@@carlost856 they were jealous
@@rinray9685 You’re both right in a way. It’s a shame not to see such powerful and beautiful beasts in real life, but they would be used as nukes to prevent any social change or technological change that would break up the power of the kings and nobles. In the end, that’s all they care about, and a peasant’s/commoner’s life is meaningless to them beyond the service and food they provide.
@@rinray9685 They were concerned for human life as proved by Dany. I'm not jealous of mass destruction weapons, I want them gone,
@@carlost856 again they're jealous they want all the power for themselves, westros should be grateful for the Targaryens who literally enden thier war of 7 kings that lead to a lot of people's death and managed to lead a dynasty of peace at least better than the 7 kings era but instead of being grateful they were bitching because they are jealous of the power they hold acting like the disgusting Westerns that they were esso's people are far better than them.
That image of vhagar chasing arrax is fire
I hope Vhagar likes all the shit just pouring from my ass if I was in that situation.
Which one was that?
Big black almost swallowing lil white, I guess?
The size difference between Vhagar and arrax man💀
On gawd
Terrifying
To be fair Arrax was just born few years prior.
And imagine baelerion
@@vetnomeNahhh 💀
"A dragon is not a slave"
The dragons:
😂
There wasn't slaves, just lived in worst places.
My theory is the maesters, as well as other lords, did this to destroy the power of house Targaryen as a way to usurp the throne.
This makes more sense than just attributing it to a hatred of magic
I mean if that were the case why did it take a few generations after the dragons died for them to be overthrown? I mean regardless, there were still MANY houses loyal to the Targaryens. They had no dragons for nearly 100 years.
@@Gen1Demmi Same reason dynasties in Europe took hundreds of years to fall before new ones took their place-they already had their chess pieces set up in the right place to control the continent. Only problem being that everyone else is setting theirs up and you don’t have dragons to stop them. I haven’t read the books, but I figure an all out war like GoT wouldn’t be on many nobles’ stomachs.
I find it hard to believe Targaryens would be so careless
But that doesn't make sense because the because the baratheon house(the one to take the throne eventually) was founded upon a Targaryen bastard, for a very long time they were blackof hair and with voilet eyes since they married back to Targaryens often.
That's why the Cannibal was a beast. It's second only to Vhagar and Balerion. It ate whatever the hell it wanted and wasn't in captivity
Cannibal only ate smaller baby dragons. Also nothing says it was second to Vhagar/Balerion at all. The Cannibal was likely around the same size as Vermithor or slightly smaller.
Cannibal was smaller than Vermithor.
All of the comments above me are false we have no facts about the size of the Cannibal. We just know that it ate dragon eggs and any dragon that was weaker or younger than he was.
For his size it is widely speculated because that is how GRRM wanted it to be, some stories say that he was on dragon stone before the targaryens came to dragon stone so that would make him older and bigger than Balerion, however this is just a myth we don't know if its true.
We'll have to wait for season 2 of HotD.
@@B1ackWolf He didn’t eat any dragons besides eggs and hatchlings. Vhagar is stated to be the largest living dragon at the time of the Dance. Vermiyhor is stated to have already grown to be the third largest after Balerion and Vhagar by 48 AC.
The only statement on Cannibal’s size is that he’s bigger than Sheepstealer and Grey Ghost.
@@MorallyDubiousFrog Another false statement.
They are the largest tamed dragons, also the cannibal did attack dragons, he got the name by eating dead dragons, newly born and dragon eggs. He even attacked sheepstealer before it ran off and then he proceeded to eat Silver Denys and his sons.
And as I said his size is purposely left out to inspire wonder. Nobody even knows what happens to him after the dance of the dragons.
People also forget how young danny's dragons were and yet they were the size of Caraxes or similar, a old veteran dragon that was around 60 years old.
I bet it was a mix of multiple things. The maesters poisoning the eggs + the magic in the world fading + the Targaryens treating them as pets. I mean one of the things that surprised me a lot in house of the dragon was the amount of contempt everyone had for these giant murder machines.
Only in the show, in the books, balerion is slighty bigger than a horse
@@caurdwhat?
@@caurdwhat?
@@just_me_myself_and_I_99 I want to mean drogon
@just_me_myself_and_I_99 Dannies dragons are basically a different breed than those in fire and blood, because grrm can't give them 10+ years to grow, so at like 3 Years they are the size of pike 15 year old dragons of fire and blood
The dragonpit is pretty sound considering the idea that it's an illusion that Targaryens can really master these powerful creatures who have their own mind. Being able to still have the most powerful tool for your power and keep it a barely manageable size really helps. Or you got a massive flying island burning entire continents because it has an itch on its ash.
A heard a theory that the dragons were born of blood magic, and the reason they grew so large was because of the death around them. Valyria saw hundreds if not thousands of slaves die daily, and Aegons conquest saw to the death of millions of Westerosi people, but eventually the conquests and killing decreased and the dragons stopped growing as much. Though imo its a combination of captivity, less freedom, less food, and the masters intervention. I wonder if HOTD will explain it or mention it
Your mention of the maesters is valid because if you watch HOTD king Viserys had a maester with him to cure his illness worsen over time it could be that they were slowly worsening his condition.
@@harrysingh6023maesters are just doctors though. Him having one treating him isn't a sign of anything.
man the design they went with for Caraxes face is so good. so fucking sinister
Depends as well, cause some Dragons were only occasionally locked up, like Vermithor was, but he's still massive cause Jaehaerys flew quite a bit, and after he died, was chilling on Dragonstone cause he had no rider and the Dragonkeepers likely understood that he'd be too large to stay there for long.
There's always a theory that the Maesters were responsible for someone's or something's death. Poor Maesters can't get a break.
I think the suspicion's well founded in this case!
The Maester’s are honestly sketchy as hell though, they have way too much power and influence over Westeros.
The maesters were not poor!! They did a lot
Masters did nothing wrong
Drogon bouta be big af the last free dragon
drogon in the books is not big same size to a horse
@@yippeekiyay7132 the video stated that if given freedom and food there is no limit to their growth, so maybe drogon is still growing
@@killworgmr6200 maybe
@@yippeekiyay7132 hes as big as season five of game of thrones. There’s a possibility we’ll see season six and maybe season 7 size drogon. Her dragons are growing fast in the books as well, faster than any dragon that came before hers.
@@dillonmartin7411 Nope. They r growing fast. But not the fastest growing Dragon. That honour goes to Vermithor. He bacame close to Balerion's size in just 100 years.
I hate that i need to keep on reminding myself Its a fantasy novel, its a fantasy novel.
shut up
I remember from another vid that a producer said the dragons were a product of Valyrian "genetics" with a touch of magic. So theres probably a high chance their growth can be affected by human and magic intervention.
Bro pumping out these lore videos everyday lol
Yea, get like 30 a day and I’m not mad, cuz mad lore
something fishy about Oldtown. The maesters and the Hightower always up to some sh*ts in Westeros.
They were essentially the true power in Westeros before Aegon
What do you think guys, are dragons necessary for the safety of realm...i mean they could defeat other houses with armies, navies and battle machines but dragons will be useful when fighting other things like White walkers...etc
Dragon Pit, The Dance of Dragons, Summer Hall, and King Robert's Rebellion.
Blackfyre rebellions? Sorry im a newbie to ASOIAF😂
So I saw a video a while back talking about how goldfish will only grow to a certain point based on how much of a chemical that they create is in the water maybe it's the same for dragons and since they didn't have the right kind of cleaning stuff than the dragons withered and died dew to their body's physically not being able to grow.
Yep, Targaryens were the downfall of their own house. Sad honestly. I mean how could they be so enamored with themselves they didn’t see the obvious?! Terrible
Honestly it’s the imbreeding. It made them crazy, mean, and dumb.
Is this why Danny's dragons are so large. Also her 2 dragons she locked up for a year are a tad bit smaller than Drogon.
it only happened in the show.In the books they still small Drogon is the same size as a horse
@@user-og1xf9jt5vin the fifth book Drogon has a wingspan of 16 meters (52 feet) . That is a huge horse.
By the time game of thrones starts, the canibal would make belarion look like a gecko
I think that the “death” of the dragons was something that needed to happen.. with dragons alive that meant that there was always something/someone who was practically a god. When the dragons “died” it really leveled the field and I think the maesters understood that too..
That didn't stop daenerys from having her own dragons .
@@dissisme5311 yeah, but tbh her eggs were like full on petrified for like 300 years and I don’t think that the maesters were expecting what happened lmao.. I kinda meant the downfall of dragons on Westero pre- Daenerys
@@jaxsonm1808 maesters are supercorrupt and vicious. Qyburn exposed them . The alchemists created wildfire and targaryens used them for 200 years
That didn't level the playing field. What actually got better bcuz there was no dragon? Instead of dragon fire, they used wildfire. They just wanted a dragon and couldn't have one bcuz the targaryens were bound by magic to the dragons. There is no level playing Field, EVER. If it Was, the lannisters wouldn't have had most of the money in westeros.
@@ricaivory6571
The Lannisters may have had the most wealth, but the houses of the Reach were no less. They were also wealthy, had fertile lands and had the most men.
The Riverlands were obviously not as wealthy as the former two, but they also a region with fertile lands and adequate supplies and men.
The Vale, North and the Stormlands had strong men due to their geography and circumstances.
The Iron Islands were the pirates and the Dornish were the guerrillas.
So they all balanced each other out.
Almost all of them getting killed during the dance of the dragons didn’t help either LMAO.
They need to have dragon island for dragon to roam around and hunting there
A lot of the world history makes no sense. Imagine all those dragons in Old Valyria and how many livestock they would kill daily just to stay fed and the unintended chaos.
"They are a power that Men should never have trifled with."
At least I suppose that if Drogon was free, the wild dragons might return (although I dont know if they ever mentioned how dragons breed)
I've seen people say that dragons in GoT are asexual and reproduce that way but I'm not sure. If that's true then Westeros is about to get a whole horde of dragons with no one to stop them lol
@@aluna1234 good, it’s something I hate that the idea of the dragons being driven to extinction because of humanity and Dani’s family in particular because they thought the dragons where like horses than anything else
They are asexual in terms of mating but only females lay eggs. Dreamfyre was particularly prolific as was Silverwing
@@samuelfawell9159 the dragons were pushed to extinction bcuz of the doom. Danny's family were the bottom of the barrel in valyria where dragons were bigger than balerion. The Doom, killed all the best dragons and their riders, along with the best eggs. If anything. The Targaryens saved them from the doom. If not for them, there wouldn't have been a single dragon at all.
@@ricaivory6571droggon might save is own species too cause he’s asexual
Imagine trying to raise an Olympic sprinter in a room they totally have enough room to grow in
Stannis: “*fewer, clutches of eggs”
Seeing the dragons in chains was probably the saddest part of GOT
Tbf the dragons would just kill anyone that wasn't bonded to them. It was either chain them up or forever hated by the citizens
Thats the reason why Drogon was much bigger than His Brothers. He was Not in chains with them, when the became to wild and kill Humans.
“Maesters may have poisoned-“
Another reason to hate the freaking Hightowers.
Yeah maesters also created Walkers, doomed old Valyria (actually beautiful progressive place full of love) and oversalted my tea
It would also explain why Drogon was larger than Viserion and Rhaegal. The other two had been kept in captivity for a time
I like the maester theory, I mean the dragon pit limiting size makes sense but once they're let out of they should start growing again really
They couldn't kill dragons but they could kill riders. Not all targaryens can ride dragons or hatch the eggs.
Keep in mind GRRM said the dragons of Old Valyria(spelling) would’ve made The Black Dread look small. They grew up to enormous sizes like football field length an larger
Nowhere has Martin said that.
While I the Dragonpit makes sense, I think it's the grey rats conspiring against them that really killed off the dragons.
Or maybe the maesters were behind it 👀
There has to be plenty of dragon eggs laying around. I think they're in petrified/hibernating state since the circumstances for eggs to hatch is unique.
Have to wonder why they didn't let them roam for a period of time until they got balerion large or vhaghar. Then kept them for defensive purposes in the dragon pit so they could quickly mount them if needed. Also why they allowed anyone but their own family to care or even get near their dragons is beyond me. How certain were they that some surviving valaryian deagon rider bastards or something didn't survive. Maybe not even knowing they were and they bonded with one of their dragons.
It took a century for Balerion to get Balerion large.
The dragonpit was a sound idea, but Maegor and Jaehaerys main flaw was not building it onto the red keep
Well kinda skipped a key moment that really sped along the dying of the dragons. Like when the shepherd lead a psychotic mod that killed like 4 dragons. With the bigger dragons sadly dying during the dance.
How exactly would the Maesters have accomplished that undetected for so long? The captivity theory is better
This is why i feel like Daemon didnt survive the fall. Theres NO WAY in hell he would've let the dragonpit and dragons be destroyed.
free range dragons vs battery cage dragons
I watch your videos everyday and realized I wasn't subscribed yet smh 😤
i think huge reason to why dragons shrinked is that targaryens forgot or dont know how to use blood magic as valyrians did. Blood magic had a huge part of dragons control and growth most likely, tho im not sure what i said was confirmed
Maesters definitely helped kill the dragons. In the books there's a Maester, who is scorned by the Citadel for being too into the "stranger mysteries". He claims the Maesters killed the dragons. Because they want a world without magic. The knights of the mind have a hidden agenda it seems
The Dance of Dragons might have also played a role in the Targaryens loosing power, but I could be wrong.
*WINK*
I wouldn't put my dragons lock up they meant to have freedom.
Viserys said that we control the dragons is an illusion. It's the biggest lie he could have said. They practically chained them and rode them whenever they wanted like dogs.
That's why in the books Daenerys's dragons, particularly Drogon are bigger that Aegon's
How did they not realise a pit is not a suitable place to keep Dragons?
It doesn’t matter, there weren’t enough Targaryen’s to ride 17 dragons.
There were enough dragonseeds and children with Targ blood (Rhaenna had six daughters) but not enough dragons
@@SantomPh what's the need to give dragons to the dragonseeds other than war?
You can see this effect in GOT with drogon being bigger than his brothers cause he wasnt put in the tombs.
honestly they kill it the dragons to soon like why can’t we have them for ever 😅
It would be poetic if the same hubris and meddling that led to the creation of dragons through blood magic, also led to their extinction through the attempt to control and restrict them.
Is that why Daenerys dragons drogon was bigger than his brother rhaegal and visieron as rhaegal and visieron were in chains and locked away while drogon rode free???
Good.
Watching this episode is going to be tough amazing but tough to watch the possible end to them. Now it is not 100% they are all gone as some where not confirmed to be so and there lives are very long. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a few left and went else where due to people wanting to destroy them all… they’d more then likely be ones that where wild I would imagine although not impossible for one that was captive to thrive not being so. I’d say George has few tricks up his sleeve… so many possibilities left unknown so it can finish in multiple ways. He can still continue on from GOT and revive it with more possibilities. He himself said he loves leaving things open for interpretation he tried doing so with GOT… which I think he did.
I really don’t think it was, the downfall of Targaryen dragons was the dance of dragons only a few dragons lived afterwards, none of them large mostly because of age
You have no idea how much I love this channel. This is the only one where I can find quick yet detailed videos on interesting parts of ASOIAF lore
Save the 🐉
Logically the cannabal should be smaller than Sunfyre and larger than grey ghost
Where did Danerys' eggs come from?
Poor beasties 💔.......
Also there was the destruction of the dragon pit and the slaughtering of a bunch of dragons inside
Quick question: is there any evidence to support the dragons not growing as large in the Dragonpit? Vermithor spent most of his life in the dragonpit, but he was stated to grow exceptionally fast, and was the third largest dragon alive by 48 AC.
Vermithor was ridden a lot more frequently, which plays a big factor in their growth.
Vermithor was not kept in the dragonpit, Jaehaerys put him In the red keep
Same like goldfish. Put it in a pond and it grows huge, abuse it in a bowl and it dies or suffers for a few years then dies when in the big pond it can live for over 20 years
I dont know if the Dragonpit really stunted growth that much. Vermithor and Silverwing spent much of their early life there and he was only smaller than Balerion and Vhagar.
Its more to do with the fact that the layer dragons died much younger. Vhagar and Balerion were Pre-conquest, hundreds od years old when they died. Vermithor was maybe 100, Caraxes maybe 80, both dead of unnatural causes (exact ages may be wrong, but the point is they all died much younger).
I do agree though that Maesters likely poisened the last ones, and the eggs. After the catastrophe that was the Dance where countless died due to dragons, the Targaryens were a proven threat, inevitable wars, but currently at their weakest. Given a chance to recover, a second Dance would come. Under Jaehaerys, the Maesters were respected and a stable monarchy under Targaryen dragons was proven to be effective. Under Viserys and Aegon and any successor, dragons were an issue. They seized their chance and put a stop to the threat
Is the dragon Balerion the largest dragon in Valyria..or were there other flying monsters in the early days?
I really hope Uncle George will leave one dragon alive to reproduce. Fantasy world can be horrible but we need the dragons.
Glaurung and Ancalagon laugh in the corner
toghter with greyoll kalameet sinh and placidusax
That was the dumbest thing to build the dragon pit in kings landing, they should've had it at dragon stone instead
What is in Maesters' interest to destroy the Targaryens?
The ancient order of scholars predates the arrival of Andals. Yet they did not pit the Andals afainst each other, but the Targaryens?
Wait until PETA learns about this!
how on earth could they feed those things
Targaryens needed to keep three things active from old Valyria, the practice of blood magic, their proper care of dragons, and quite possibly the incest. There appears to be more madness as they marry outside of their family.
Many of the mad Targaryens were the product of incestuous marriages.
Aegon V tried to marry all his kids to outsiders but his last son Jahareys and his sister wanted each other and married without approval. Jahaerys II then forced his own children Aerys and Rhaelle to marry each other due to a seer's prediction.
The incest itself was a form of insanity.
Isn’t this only one in universe explanation presented? I love it, and it’s the most likely one, but it’s said by a character as a possibility
I don't think Drogon is the last dragon, I think that somewhere there are wild dragons still, just not in the seven kingdoms.
Ahhh nothing is more satisfying to me in The Song of Ice and Fire Universe than the downfall of the House Targaryen
I would have my dragon out and about buying up as many sheep as possible lol
The dragon pit ruined my view of the Targaryens. I thought the dragons were freely choosing their riders due to their genetic mutation and magical connection. I didnt know they were basically domesticating them eventually leading to their demise. I understand them being born and tied to a targaryen does exert a kind of unnatural willpower over them through imprinting but i didn't think the dragons would be locked up like house cats.
I agree but what I've seen is that the maesters skeemed for generations poisoning and deforming the dragons till the were essentially sickly useless creatures sad
Shouldve made it bigger
Well look at drogons siblings compared to balerion. Close to same species but balerion was free range and ate anything he wanted like drogon and both were bigger than drogons half brothers
if u believe that, cause we dont even know how to tame the dragon. valyrians had songs, horns and magic and thats why they had dragons. we dont see targaryens to have horns, songs (okay daemon's but thats only) or any rituals probably, cause they dont do it anymore. my theory is that valyrians needed slaves, when targaryens came to westeros they "used" them to build dragonstone. so after time, no slaves=no blood rituals =smaller dragons -> no dragons. and dany killed the witch, sacrificed the child and husband, even if unconsciously BAM dragons
Was entirely caused by themselves
Same with anything really .. restrict it limit resources it adapts to be smaller using less
The maesters absolutely had a part in it. Sam begged the arch maester to send ravens and confirm the army of the dead for a reason. They most certainly had propaganda power and physical power. The dragons being killed by townspeople was always RIDICULOUS! One medium dragon can burn dozens but yet are easily killer by dozens? NO!!! Hell nah
Also, as long as there was Dragons, Magic was stronger.
Fun fact: There is actually still a dragon that survived all these years. The dragon called "Cannibal" was a free dragon that left after the great war. Since he wasn't constricted ever, he technically wont die of old age either so should still be alive and maybe will appear in the final two books
Would you rather keep your dragon in the keep, or let it roam free under the sky?
so they did to dragons what cavemen did to wolves until we got chihuahuas
Those stupid maesters were too smart for their own good, then again if The Mad Kid had access to a dragon Robert’s Rebellion may never have happened!
So the targaryens and valarions would have 100% know that.
Why didn't they let the dragons roam free them?
Whist a bit weak, it makes more sense for the masters to have poisoned them
Could you imagine 12-15 dragons of all sizes just freely roaming westeros?? From the north wall to dorne?? They'd eat the entire population in less than 20 years. 🤦Hellllooooo.and that's IF the Targaryens didn't want even the smallest chance a different group of people could become dragonriders? How were they to know? They knew nothing about westeros when they first got there. P.s VELARYONS, NOT "VALARIONS"🤣🤣
@@jasonpeters617 BUt why didnt the dragons of old valiria attack the locoal population?
Your comment dosent make sense as why would dragon nature change?
PLus you need to have the dragon rider gene which they dont have
Because eventually the targaryens would lose control over the dragons and a lot of wild dragons would roam doing whatever the hell they like
@@farright118 what you said about the dragon gene is probably why valerians were't all eaten. The magic to dominate them was common there. Not in westeros though. A whole ton of people would get eaten no doubt.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Interesting thought however the free cites where never ethnically Valerian.
Only pentos and the Valerian penitular were ethnically valerian.
Unless, the dragons did generally stay around the volcanos due to the blood/fire magic.
So maybe they were magically controlled to stay there and even if they flew around it would still be valerians they saw for hundreds of kilometers.
And so the dragons only left when they were riden by dragon riders