Conservative vs. Progressive: Jesus, Culture, and the Bible (with Brandan Robertson)
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- What do conservative and progressive Christians have in common and where do they differ? Sean invites progressive Christian author Brandan Robertson on to discuss Brandan's latest book. They talk about Jesus, culture, scripture, and much more.
WATCH: Progressive vs. Evangelical: A Dialogue for Clarity ( • Progressive vs. Evange... )
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#1- Even though he didn't have a RUclips back then, it was channels like Sean's that helped me see the major differences between the New Age and Biblical Christianity. I was one of those Christians that went down that path because nobody could answer my questions. In this way, I relate to Brandan.
#2- The Jesus Seminar? Really?
#3- As usual, this interview was done with poise, respect and good pushback. Both men were kind and well spoken. I love that these types of conversations happen. I would love to see another conversation about some of the things Brendan brought up. For example, how he figures the reliability of the gnostic Gospels is a-okay but rejects the early Church fathers and councils.
#4- It seems like one of the (many!) major differences here is that Brandan sees himself as an authority on what scripture says versus an Evangelical would see Jesus as the authority. Again, I can relate to this. I was my own sovereign and easily could see how he would interpret Jesus and the woman with the sick daughter the way he did. The thing to remember is that I was in the driver's seat on interpretation. Elevating man and demoting God is the secret sauce for this perspective. I'm only slightly familiar with Brandan's work, but I don't think he would disagree entirely with me here.
#5- I'm still floored how he would define himself as a Christian yet deny all major beliefs of Christianity. It's like someone calling themselves a vegan but then eat meat all day. They read the vegan cookbook and come out with a meat lovers recipe for their pizza. Nobody would read the Bible front to back and come out with his interpretation, but again, I think that's kind of the point of having your own interpretation as being your own sovereign.
#6- Sharing this. You're an example to us all Sean. 🏆
Indeed, so many of Brandan's points worth debating and pushing back. What struck me most, I think, was that he seemed to not believe in the resurrection at all. See how he portrayed Jesus as the sociopolitical messiah foretold in Isaiah, but then he was killed by the Roman Empire and all his disciples were at a loss: "Now what?" As though the resurrection never took place and was simply an invention or a spiritualization of Jesus that came later. THAT, if nothing else, should disqualify him from "Christian orthodoxy".
@@greatsave7 It's amazing how central His resurrection is to the entire thing. Definitely The Cornerstone. Everything is just a self-help manual without that one thing.
I agree with this aside from I don’t think debating him any further will help him. His issue is clearly a sin issue. He knows there is a God but he loves his flesh and homosexuality too much to humble himself and repent. He would rather lie to himself than die to his flesh.
@@greatsave7 I'm a progressive Christian and I definitely HOPE that the Son of Man rose from the dead, leaving behind an empty tomb. To me, Christianity wouldn't make any sense without that. However, unlike McDowell, Craig and Licona, I don't think that you can establish it with the historical method, however much I'd like that to be the case.
@@papapronator2476 It's the truth. I've had debates with people in his ideological camp. They even say things like "you are all in the past and have stayed in the past. We are moving into the future." It made my heart hurt to hear such a gross thing. The truth of Christ was settled and is always settled. It is the only thing that stays the same yesterday, today, and forever. That's the beauty of it. We can change and fight against it but, we always have to come back to the central basic truths of Him and what He said. It's what makes it dependable. If we are finding "new truths" than we've invented something to make ourselves feel good or justify our lifestyles apart from Christ. The sad part is they will never be satisfied with their "new truths". They will never find contentment and peace in them because they do change and are therefore not something that can be depended on as truth.
Sean, your ability to listen to and restrain yourself from instantly countering a theology that you (and many of us) so vehemently disagree with is a true example to us on how to graciously dialogue with others. God bless!
I don’t see this as a good example of how to deal with someone who is a false prophet. They need to be completely removed from any association with the church. I don’t see a loving discourse with someone like this in the Bible.
@@dontbedumbomg4055 I don’t think you have to worry about him showing up at your church.
@@crisjunfan2139 the church is the full bride of Christ, not just the group of people that get together in a particular building. There is a reason Jesus first warning is to not be deceived.
@@dontbedumbomg4055 are Catholics among the full bride of Christ? Arminians? Eastern Orthodox? Coptics? If you don’t consider anything but the very recent (in terms of the whole history of Christianity) and narrow slice of North American evangelicalism to belong to the true bride of Christ then you don’t need to worry, because he’s not claiming to be evangelical.
Just so you know I strongly disagree with Brandon’s theology. I just think Grace isn’t only reserved to those with whom we agree.
@@crisjunfan2139 well if you have ever listened to any of Brandon’s videos you would understand how he teaches a very non biblical Jesus. So whatever Jesus he claims to follow is nothing close to the biblical Jesus. It’s one thing to try and debate the understanding of a text to try to get to a true reading of it. It’s completely different to totally change the character of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit gives you discernment. And I must say, when I hear this man speak it's like an alarm going off. Praying for his repentance truly.
Yup, he is a wolf in sheep's clothing
Same, he just makes it what he wants to make it.
Amen, he’s tickling ears
@@stevemcniel9515 he isn't, although i disagree with brandan on almost everything he says, he truly believes what he preaches, people need to observe and study these ideologies and learn how to deal with them not think that they are trying to just "decieve us"
Thanks
@@kevindavid732 Most predators actually believe what they feel say and do. He is still a dangerous wolf in sheep's clothing deceiving and teaching against God's word. If you like him, great! I do not care. Have at it.
Brandon has just flat out denied plain statements in scripture. Brandon cherry picks scriptures and then injects a liberal sociological foundation.
I don’t want to cast judgment on Brandan, mostly because people are not the enemy satan is. My heart breaks for this man and I pray that he finds Jesus. Father in Heaven please reach this man that You love and all that follow him in the mighty name of Jesus I ask it amen
Sean I have to say you did an excellent job with this interview and you pressed Branden when it was needed, you gave him space to explain when needed and you were kind and good faith overall. Learned from both of you.
When you just listen close to what Brandon says it's clear what he's doing, he literally says it...."what I want to use this passage for."
Yeah and "what my gospel says"
My thing is, why does he use the Bible for this? When he doesn’t even agree with it 😂
@@reginesarai that's a good point
That’s literally what it is to be a pastor. Applying passages to your congregation’s lives.
@@Jd-808 Paul instructed Timothy this... "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage-with great patience and careful instruction.”
Sean was a clear example of this. Brandon is not. What’s been concerning to me that I was naive about until recently, is the marxist influence in some seminaries. The students come out deceived and believe they’re equipped to be a preacher, and wind up leading their new congregations astray. If Gods word isn’t infallible, then who is? Us? Paul couldnt of been any clearer in 2 Tim 4:3
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
I’ve misinterpreted scripture, but believed I was correct. When I was presented with the truth, I changed my stance. We make mistakes, but it’s dangerous to continue head on into them. I pray Brandon repents and follows the TRUE and living God.
So glad Sean is having these conversations. I really like Brandan. He kinda showed his hand with referencing the Jesus seminar as a credible source. Looking forward to having dialogue with him some day.
Just repent.
Dude!!
Really??
Everything that guy preaches is purely satanic!!!!
Hey remember when I challenged you to actually preach some gospel when you fell head over heels for that scam Julie pyett?
Still waiting........
In what ways do you like Brandan? The man is a liar and heretic leading people astray. We cast that aside cause he's relatively nice?
Thanks for watching, Ruslan. You guys definitely need to dialogue. That would be awesome.
What do you mean when you say “he kinda showed his hand with his referencing the Jesus seminar?”
Sean, your demeanor and reaction to Brandon's perspective was truly masterful and sets a standard for all Christians to follow- not by arrogance or fear but with firm conviction of what the scriptures reveal about Jesus.
The best way to understand someone’s position is to let them explain it. We can all sit inside our echo chambers and talk ABOUT progressive “Christianity.” But it’s more productive to just let it reveal itself. So thank you for this conversation and once again demonstrating the second part of 1 Peter 3:15, “…and do so with gentleness and respect.”
100% Dude. People misrepresent other people all the time. I really appreciate Sean so much for not doing that.
So true. Clear debate that’s reveals so much.
YES! I’m an atheist and have yet to hear an apologist, aside from Randal Rauser, represent my position accurately. Seems both sides just want to vilify one another. Romans 1:18ff doesn’t help the conversation. :/
@@BigIdeaSeeker I am so sorry that people misrepresent your position. I totally get that.
Good take Jason
I’m 44 minutes in and I’m having to take a break cuz I’m having such an emotional response to these lies about Jesus. My heart is pounding and I’m shaking right now. Sean you are strong to keep your cool as someone is blaspheming our savior like that. This is hard to watch.
Sadly I cursed at my screen. I had to pray for forgiveness for my mouth and anger as Brandon just decided again and again to believe so called “scholars” 2,000 yrs removed over the plain reading of the text.
I felt the same way! Why give this heretic a platform to spread his lies and deceit? Nothing he says is edifying or true. “ has God said?” echoes with every arrogant condescending word from his lips.
Brandon is deeply deceived! Let's all pray for him and for God to open his eyes to the fullness of truth. I pray that he is convicted of his sin and that he will bring glory to God's kingdom through a repentant heart
@@Casey_6188 Bro, I think this level of transparency better be used with God alone or face to face with a dearly brother or sister. This Brendan, as much of a false teacher as he is, comes across as really calm and in control of his emotions. How much more in control of the flesh shouldn't we be having the Holy Spirit? Our kingdom is not from this world. God bless.
Yup. Knew that would happen before I even started watching.
Body language and facial expressions say it all for me. Praying for Brandon. Great job Sean in being loving. Grace and truth. Also the amount to times Brandan says “for me” “if I were Jesus”
I do agree that those that claim Christ have pushed people like Brandan to the space, act defensively, and don’t ask questions. It’s painful that this happens to people. The text itself tells us to ask questions. Sean was so humble and spot on!
Amen!
Brandan is smirking at times like he knows he is speaking falsehood and getting away with it. I need prayer cause I think he is crafty and evil.
Brandon is like a lot of young people a little in awe of someone older that's the only body language there is; anything else is you projecting your preconceived dislike of him.
Or maybe people just express themselves differently 🤷
@@tjedits7993no this guy makes my narrow view of God and self understanding uncomfortable. He has to be evil
I’m not sure how someone can come to the conclusion that their own opinions can overrule the Bible. The examples that brandan gives for Jesus having biases and being “wrong” are completely subjective to him. If Jesus is God, and God is all good, loving and powerful, then it doesn’t matter what we think was the “right” thing to do, because whatever Jesus or God chooses to do is inherently the right thing to do, it literally cannot be wrong.
He comes to that conclusion because progressive Christianity is nothing more than thin veneer of Jesus placed over the new world religion of Intersectionality. His “faith” is the exact reason that true religion is defined as caring for widows and orphans AND keeping yourself uncorrupted by worldly doctrine.
The same way that someone can come to the conclusion that the opinions of councils ruling centuries after Jesus walked the earth in the first century, can somehow establish what exactly even constitutes the Bible in the first place.
As soon as you take that leap of faith in those opinions of those men centuries after Jesus, then you’ve accepted the same premise that humans have to decide what IS the “Word of God” in the first place - it wasn’t dropped from the sky in a flaming scroll.
That means we are all having to prayerfully consider what really IS the Word of God, and for me it is this:
“Love your enemies” isn’t what my instinct tells me - so that’s the Word of God.
It’s contrary to what my fleshly nature desires and YET it is beautiful and enticing in a high way - I DESIRE that GOOD and LOVING Spirit.
Jesus himself told us the entire Law and Prophets are hung on the two LOVE commandments: Love God, Love your neighbor as yourself.
All the rest unfolds from that - and it is NOT a message convenient for the flesh, which seeks pleasure of “me and mine over you and yours,” which favors fleshly pursuits, and not “when you are sued for your shirt, give your cost also.”
The WORD OF GOD is self evident by its very SPIRIT.
Right morality is subjective to Christ and God. Subjective morality.
@@trellusg you're saying that centuries after the NT of the Bible was written is not the time to decide what is canon and what are our creeds - instead that should all be decided millennia afterwards, by the "spirits" of the best and most well-intentioned among us (like you and Brandan).
I'd call what you're doing "nice-egesis" - basically reading one's own sense of niceness into the texts. The starting point is going to always be your sense that nice is right, and that anything seeking to be not-nice must have been misunderstood. It puts you in the judgment seat, deciding who Jesus is and what God is like based on what you wish to be true. It's not that you won't challenge yourself with difficult religious principles (such as your example of "love your enemies"), but that you will decide which challenges will be allowed to arise from Scripture as written, based on your sense of niceness.
For freedom from this need to pick and choose from out of God's revelation, I suggest releasing responsibility for making excuses for the Bible and simply submitting to true Biblical orthodoxy.
There are challenges, to be sure, but coming to know God as He is actually revealed in Scripture will lead to that lighter yoke that Jesus promised. You'll find a God and a Savior with far greater weight and worth than the one you get by 21st century retconning.
Now I'm a pretty new Christian and so I'm certainly not an expert, but in my opinion there's something really weird about the progressive Christians' view on Scripture: If the Bible was simply written by humans (and reflects subjective human viewpoints) and is therefore not inerrant - how do you decide which part is true/reliable/authoritative and which is not? Interestingly enough Brandan tries to back up some of his arguments by quoting Scripture....But it seems that they just choose, whatever they like (or what feels right) and ignore or twist the rest...in the end, that just means they make up their own belief, right?
When I first started to consider whether Christianity was true or not, there were really only two options for me. Either the Bible is the Word of God and therefore inerrant or none of it is reliable at all. So either I accept everything or nothing at all. As much as I would have liked to change or ignore certain passages back then, I knew that if I did that I could just as well believe whatever I'd like to believe and forget Christianity altogether.
So there is another thing I just don't understand. Why would someone who rejects almost all core beliefs of Christianity even call himself a Christian??
Anyways, thank you Sean for this interview and for everything you do (and the way you do it). Your videos (and books) have been so helpful for me!
If you are a "pretty new" Christian, I am impressed. :-) I PRAISE GOD that you already can see the difference in the progressive view on Scripture! May we all keep praying for discernment, and may God bless you with increased understanding of his Truth!
@@john14_63: Thank you so much!
Your 1st paragraph took the words out of my mouth. Spot on analysis. It truly is a "pick and choose" type of theology in progress christianity, one where God increasingly begins to look more and more like the person who is doing the picking and choosing. This is why there is essentially no difference between them and new age belief.
@@GabrielMartinez-su8di: Thank you.
@@KathU88 Amen to your comment
So grateful for the firm, but gentle way in which Sean declares truth and attacks error without "attacking" Brandon.
His patience is amazing
lol @ assuming Sean is right just because he's orthodox
@@tylerstoltzfus3456 Not 'orthodox' just Biblical...
Your bible is only 3000 years old, humans like us (homo sapiens) exist since 300,000 years. In no artefact, cave painting, scripture or any testimony in the 297,000 years before the bible, your homophobic god was ever mentioned.
Your version of a homophobic god is an invention only 3000 years old.
Read Roman's and Corinthians. The Apostles had NO such demeanor in calling out apostates for burning the law.
Sean's slower cadence in itself is amazing for diffusing tension. It just slows everything down and makes emotionally and theologically charged conversations so much more digestible.
Wow good point - I never thought about that
True when you speak fast in most cases it’s usually indicative of someone who doesn’t really have a point
I feel so sorry for that young man and all people who have fallen into the belief of progressivism.
He is leading so many people straight to the gates of hell .
And I feel sorry for you, who have stopped thinking for yourself and adopted a rigid dogma! Moreover, like a "true dogmatic" Christian you pretend to be, you judge harshly the young man as if you already know everything...
@@wakeuppeople7180 not judging the young man but his teachings which, according to Scripture, written by God Himself, declares Brandan to be wrong. Your argument is with God. You either believe what He has said or you believe what you think. If you reject God as He defines Himself and you reject the authority of His Word, you are trusting in yourself. Scripture tells us to correct and reprove false teachers, that's not judging, that is being obedient. And thank God my mind is only open to God and His Word as revealed in Scripture and through His Holy Spirit. Being open minded to the point of leaving off sound doctrine and Scripture interpreting Scripture means you are trusting in man, not God. Who exactly is stuck in dogma and brainwashed? Hmmmmm.....
@@wakeuppeople7180 there are 27 books in the NT and 26 of those books profess and diagnose false teachers, false prophesy. It’s a serious ideological desire to change the word of God.
“Jesus is the same today as He was yesterday”
“He knew no sin”
“In the beginning was the word and the word became flesh, He was in the begging in which all things were made”
There are scriptures and doctrine of these texts that are first century texts. Not just confronted by men in a council. This is heresy to Gods word and it is a Christians duty to rebuke false doctrine. We are commanded to. Not because of hate, your coming at that angle. We are to come from loving discernment. He is teaching a false gospel. The first commandment “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me” you can’t create a God to fit your own desire. That’s why it’s the first commandment, it diagnosis our sin and points us to need a savior.
Also it’s not suppose to be Christian judging with condemnation and I understand that point. It is sinful for us to do. But this isn’t about your or mine opinion, it’s about the word of God. You give up your idea and opinions that’s what repentance is
@@wakeuppeople7180 we don't know everything..... we just don't twist the Bible to fit our personal beliefs.
We are all sinners, noone is denying that.
Praying for you Brandan and your church -thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective! I follow Sean’s line of thinking but this conversation was valuable. God bless you!
Sean, I appreciate this conversation. I've never heard of Brandon nor was I aware of the progressive Christian view. One of the main things and best things I think that I got out of this is that we cannot be afraid or threatened to talk to people who are different than us. We tend to get defensive and "slam the door". Having civil conversation does NOT mean we are compromising our faith, but it is truly showing the love of Jesus. Thanks again!
You are falling for the progressive lie from this liar. Ephesians 5! Have nothing to do with these people means have nothing to do with these people. Sean has been flirting with the progressive movement for years now and he seems to be getting pulled into it more and more.
@@tikka243412 Eph. 5:11 is actually saying have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness, but expose them. We don't participate in their sin. We need to be ready to give an answer to those regarding the Truth and why we believe. How will they respond if no one tells them?
I would say Brendan is more on the *extreme* end of progressive christianity though.
I wouldn't take him as a full representative of progressive christianity.
Although it does rather depend on how you define progressive christianity, especially as many on the more "moderate" end don't like to call themselves "progressive christians".
Brandan really held back a lot of his more controversial views / teachings from this discussion. He veers completely out of Christianity in all but name. It's pretty much a newage / gnosticism blend. He teaches that "Christ" is a universal thing (like Buddhahood) that Jesus the man attained, and that we also can attain and become one with, and that we do so by expanding out mind (not repenting of sin).
If you wish to learn more about the various theologies that progressive christianity has I would suggest watching Alisa Childers. She encountered progressive christianity and struggled with her faith, but God got her through. She has a RUclips Channel. Her book Another Gospel? gives an easy to understand layout of the differences between progressive christianity and biblical Christianity and gives her testimony of her journey as well. 🙂
Brandon is another Antichrist. I struggle to calmly speak with someone who so slippery twists the word of God with out becoming angry. Sean your example challenges me to become better. This shows me that I need to dedicate myself to study more, prepare more and to prayerfully dig deeper into my own heart. Thank you.
Brandon Robertson is not an anti christ ,he is not against jesus himself!
@@marcushardwick4616 He made Jesus in his own image. That's a dangerous heresy.
Amen
He’s not the anti christ, he is a false teacher.
@@marcushardwick4616 I’ll pray for your discernment
Thank you to both Sean and Brandon. I must admit that I was curious about how this was going to go, but was pleased to see how it played out. Regardless of differences, I felt that you both modeled kindness, love and respectful listening. I learned a lot from Brandon which was helpful because I have several close family members identifying with Progressive/Liberal views like Brandon. It helped me understand some of the views better so that I can be better prepared to have similar conversations as this with my own family. In addition, I must say that Sean really captured the best way to hold dialogue with those of opposing views. It really challenged me to follow suit. Please have more of these discussions. Thanks again to both Brandon and Sean!
Thx Pam!
Whew!! I'm about halfway though this talk. I'm going to have to listen to this one in pieces. Sean, I appreciate that you are gently and firmly pushing back against Brandan. Thank you for bringing clarity and inviting conversation. My heart is broken and I feel like weeping at how lost and distorted these teachings of Brandan are. Im praying that he repents and submits to the authority of God.
I couldn’t have put it better. It’s a brilliant turn by Sean, but it’s tragic to see such a deviation of Christianity as defined by Brandan
@@edwinohanlon3834 At least Brandan sounds more articulate than that progressive *pastor* Colby, Martin whom Sean has interviewed twice. Progressive Christians seem like closeted agnostics who don't know they're in the closet...that interview was insufferable.
Seems like he’s arguing for leniency of interpretation based on a particular personal need, rather than accepting inerrancy, infallibility, and authority and admitting his own fallibility and repenting like the rest of us do.
Very well said, i couldn't his agree more. This is a clear example of isogesus of scripture. Taking presuppositions and reading it into scripture.
All Sean is doing is parroting what he has heard others say. Sheep following sheep.
When he said:
"I take seriously SOME of the Scriptures language around personal morality for instance.. But, that doesn't mean that the Bible gets a black and white blank slip to dictate everything that's happening in my life, in my faith and my world because there are areas where I really do think the Bible gets it wrong"
He really said everything he needed to say to once again confirm that he in no way, shape or form is a believer..
Nope. I don't understand why he even calls himself a Christian because he literally does not believe ANYTHING that Christianity teaches or believes.
@@saltandlight316 only a rational person could find no fault in Christ recognize the Messiah and call themselves a christian. You guys are more like the religious people that wanted him crucified. That's a fair observation. I can't imagine what that feels like to know you're their spiritual descendants. You guys aren't washed in the blood. It's upon you and your whole family's.
@@dansaber4427 We in no way judge him to condemn him, but we are indeed called to 'judge by their fruits'. And in this case they point to anywhere BUT God..
We pray for him that he gets to know the true Gospel that saves and transforms, and if you also preach and promote immorality and pc cultural idiocy that goes contrary to the Word then we'll pray for you as well. We are all sinners in need of a Savior, I couldn't point to anyone on this planet and say that they are worse than me..
God bless you
Jesus help us 🙏🏼❤️
It’s narcissism at the very foundation.
When you don't believe in the authority of scripture you are saying that God either couldn't or didn't make known to us the truth of His son's identity and How He redeemed us to Himself. Without that we are still lost and relegated to subjective generic spirituality and relativism. As Greg Koukl says we are left standing with our feet planted firmly in mid air.
One thing I've always loved about Sean is his willingness to engage in cordial and respectful discussions, and I agree with Sean and Brandon's criticism of the evangelical church. It's frustrating seeing my fellow evangelicals failing so hard at this, and Sean is a perfect example of how you speak truth in love and is a breath of fresh air. I disagree with Brandon's theology, but I do appreciate how he wishes to also keep respectful dialog open for both sides. I was also able to get a better fleshed out idea of progressive theology as well, which is good since it's helpful to understand where you are starting from. Praying for both of these men!
I’m so thankful for this platform where these conversations to take place. You responded to Brandan with grace and kindness while also pushing back and not abandoning your beliefs. I am also thankful to Brandan for being willing to have this conversation
After listening to the whole conversation, I think Brandon can, someday, come up with his own Bible version like Joseph Smith.
I think he may, should he not repent.
He definitely will be meeting Joseph smith n hell.
I agree. Individuals like Brandon can only justify their beliefs by either not accepting GOD'S word, distorting it, or adding to GOD'S word, or taking away from it. Which can eventually lead to someone coming up with a separate religious doctrine altogether. Such as Joseph Smith, which can be used as a good example.
Homosexuality is roundly condemned in GOD'S word. Anytime when marriage is found in JEHOVAH GOD'S written word, it is always between two people, of the opposite sex. People like Brandon, are like a dog out in a field, running around, and around chasing after its tail. It's pointless. There is no support for same sex unions in GOD'S written word. Either in the Old Testament Canon, or the New Testament Canon. We all must show love, concern, and BIBLICAL TEACHING to those individuals who are attracted to the same sex.
Sincerely, Paul R. Wright from Texas.
Just like the men at the councils of Nicean came up with a distorted conforming version of Jesus's teachings we now call the Bible.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sean is so patient, kind, loving and restrained. It must take immense self- control to know as much as he does, he is so learned in all his love for the LORD, to hear these blasphemous and false words/claims from another man who says he teaches and spreads the gospel is highly disturbing. Sean is exactly what we should all strive to be for Christ. I can see his restraint in his blinking, controlled breathing and how he swallows. God bless him. Love listening to you Sean! You're incredible at what you do in the name of Jesus.
Yeah, spreading such blasphemous words & to hear him say, "I'm getting my PhD in the Bible for goodness sakes." Ugh!
Sean, your ability to have these conversations in a respectful way is such an encouragement and helps me to really self reflect on how I approach these kind of conversations.
Brandon, I’m sorry for the hurt you’ve received in the past and the abuse you receive today. I want to echo what Sean said in his closing statements. An imperfect representation of Jesus by an imperfect body of believers really showcases the need for Christ and what he did for us and how we are continually in need of Gods grace.
Thanks Josh. Well said.
_Brandon, I’m sorry for the hurt you’ve received in the past and the abuse you receive today._
If by "abuse", you mean criticism for his apostate beliefs making him an apostate and even more than that "abuse", he will be suffering far more on judgement day _(as foretold in Romans 1:32 where it says what Brandon is worthy of)_ for his blatant disregard for the moral teachings of Christianity. To Brandon, there is no such thing as being sexually immoral even though the Bible says no sexually immoral person will inherit the Kingdom of God, which that's about Brandon and all of his followers he is dragging to Hell with him.
@@khill4053 I hope you’re having a great Christmas Eve!
I wanted to pop in and clarify because I think some assumptions are being made without an attempt to seek clarity first.
No, I did not mean “abuse” in the sense of receiving Biblical correction for unbiblical beliefs. However, at the end of the day, Brandon is still a human being, made in the image of God and in need of his saving grace. Would you like to see Brandon come to salvation? I would.
Just as Sean did in this video, approaching lost people like Brandon, who have been through Biblical studies, grew up in the church, and know what the orthodox Biblical positions are know what we believe and why we believe them. Sean is paving the road for a personal relationship with Brandon, a friendship where critique can happen in love. Yes, we hold to the scriptures and their teachings without making excuses for certain sin. But, yelling apostate through the comment sections on RUclips and making statements like “the abuse he’ll receive in judgement is far worse” aren’t going to and haven’t convinced Brandon to come to repentance and realize his need for salvation.
Brother or sister, I would urge you to seek clarity before “shooting from the hip” and jumping straight into the mindset of “you’ll see in eternity”. Trust me, from experience, this only drives the other person further into their unbiblical beliefs.
I hope you have a great Christmas!
@@joshrees5635 _Brother or sister, I would urge you to seek clarity before “shooting from the hip” and jumping straight into the mindset of “you’ll see in eternity”. Trust me, from experience, this only drives the other person further into their unbiblical beliefs._
Thanks for your note, but I have clarity, the Bible is very clear about this. Did you read what Romans 1:32 says? Or did you intellectually dishonestly ignore it and decided to spend more time critiquing my comment rather than actually critiquing apostate Brandon and his apostate beliefs based on what the Bible says in Romans 1:32? It's not what I say, but what the Bible says, which Brandon has no regard for obviously, and you seem to have the same lack of regard. You are kind of leaving off the "go and sin no more" part, giving Brandon a pass. I won't.
Maybe you should gain at least as much clarity as I have about Brandon, who is someone who claims sex outside of marriage isn't a sin and approves of homosexuality, and about whom the Bible says the sexually immoral will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and blasphemes Jesus. Per his own apostasy posting, QUOTE:
TITLE: *Christians- Stop Idolizing Jesus*
SUBTITLE: _In this video, I articulate why I believe understanding Jesus as a human who needed to learn and grow makes him more relatable ..._
Do you get how blasphemous Brandon is? One, Jesus isn't worthy of all the glory and worship due Him AS GOD, according to Brandon. And two, GOD needed to "learn and grow"? Do you understand that being "made in the image of God" doesn't prevent someone from being evil? You do know Hitler was made in the image of God also, right? This evil apostate Brandon is dragging millions into HELL. He has over 2 million subscribers in RUclips alone, not counting the similar amount or more on Tik Tok. You don't coddle evil, you condemn it.
@@khill4053 let’s defuse the situation a tad. I’m not angry or hostile and I hope you’re replying from the same heart.
I’m not arguing that Brandon is correct, he is in fact wrong. I stand with you in agreement, he is wrong on MANY if not all things related to Christianity and that has been my position since day 1.
My original comment was commending Sean on a job well done. He offered friendship to someone who is clearly lost and listened to him speak. The ability to sit and listen without interjection is very difficult and something I find myself unable to do at times. Through my own inability to not interject and become immediately hostile, I have found that it adds to the issue and does not help the unbeliever or questioning Christian come back to Biblical belief.
I think we’re honestly talking past each other here. I beleive your first comment was written with the assumption that when I said “abuse” you took that to mean people giving him Biblical correction and that I somehow believed Brandon was correct. That is not what I meant. We can correct our fellow brothers and sisters without hostility and aggression and we can correct nonbelievers without hostility and aggression. When I said “seek clarity” I did not mean seek clarity on Brandon’s position. I meant seek clarity from me, what I was trying to say. Ask questions, don’t immediately jump to an assumption I was not making and go into attack mode. A simple, “what did you mean by that” would have been much easier and saved us both time.
12 minutes in and I just wanna say Sean, you are the BEST at interviewing different viewpoints and quickly getting to the heart of the issue in a charitable way. Where others would get into the weeds and talk past each other the rest of the time, it's like you are able to see above the conversation and know what's really the foundation of the disagreement, and steer the conversation straight to that. We need more of that!
Thanks Michael. That’s my hope to do more of here!
Really? I can't see Jesus..or the Apostle Paul...interviewing "different view points"!
Maybe he should interview Satanists next!
@@cassandragarcia5548 interviewing someone doesn't equal approving their views. I think Sean did/does a great job of making it clear where he disagrees and even has serious concerns, yet letting them put their best foot forward and speak for themselves. I think Jesus would definitely make efforts to put two similar viewpoints next to each other to show clearly which one is truth and which one is deceptive.
@@michaelbarnard9087 Newsflash: Jesus and Paul both.. would be rebuking him...not interviewing him!
@@cassandragarcia5548 I will admit I had a similar initial response (in my head). However, would you agree there is merit in exposing the falsehoods being propagated by others so that we can edify the body of Christ by making it clear what we do (and do not) believe ? I anticipate that Ruslan, Mike Winger, Melissa Dougherty, Colin @ FightForTruth or another RUclipsr can then respond to these claims. You may have the gift of discernment, others might be developing discernment, and others .... well, they may not have any CLUE without seeing/hearing conversations like those that Sean had with Brandan (and Colby Martin, as another example). Thoughts ?
“It’s authoritative as long as it isn’t dissing my homosexuality.” Pretty simple really. Brandon is the ultimate authority of his worldview.
You are not resttleling with the bible ,you are resttleling with your pride. Praying for you brother 🙏
Yes I found that most significant. He claims it is arrogance that troubles him most about evangelicals, yet doesn't acknowledge his own arrogance in being highly subjective with scripture and gospel. Nothing wrong with Sean's answer but I was hoping he would have brought that to his attention at the end. Not to call him arrogant, but to question whether he perceives his views as being arrogant as well.
Who are you referring to here?
This is the dude who during a sermon lightning struck outside and turned out the lights. That spoke for itself. He is no Christian in my opinion.
@@zhugh9556 look at you going off the deep end. Haha. Stay mad.
@@zhugh9556 In all likelihood, the lightning strike was just a coincidence. But does God go around showing every once in a while that he is there, I think so and that’s possibly one of the times.
Pure facts. No such thing as a “Progressive Christian.”
Thank you Sean for your ability to have a respectful conversation. I strive to do the same. I am always disappointed when others are not compassionate when responding to things they disagree with. I don't believe anyone will change their mind when you attack. I do think they will if persuaded with love. I'm a big fan of you and your fathers work. Keep inspiring people with TRUTH!
That’s so encouraging. Thanks Matt!
Two words that Brandon said that really struck me is “My gospel” @ 59 minutes in.
This is the crux of the issue. It is absolutely amazing to me that Brandon accused Sean of bringing his own bias into his reading of the Bible- Sean literally read it word for word and pointed out the obvious meaning whereas Brandon jumped through hoops using critical theory and "progressive" theology to interpret the passage to mean what he wanted it to mean. And to say that Jesus was wrong because he, Brandon, thinks it should have been done differently is just a stunning admission. If you couldn't see the pride of life in his countenance, surely you could hear it in his words.
I think Sean did a masterful job of exposing the wolf by simply allowing him to take off his disguise and show us what he is underneath.
YES...that caught my attention also.
Maybe he just meant the gospel as he understands it
@@juliep1122 No he very clearly worships jesus in Brandan's own image.
Fascinating conversation! For me, one of the biggest issues is our understanding of the Gospel. When I left being a paramedic to be in ministry, I didn’t realize how many people misunderstand how the Bible applies to our lives! That’s why I have centered my channel on helping people understand the Bible in a practical, relevant way that keeps the true Gospel at the heart of every teaching.
The gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing. The natural man doesn’t have the spirit of God therefore they cannot understand the deep meanings of scripture until they surrender to Christ in repentance. The act of understanding is only limited by ones love of sin.
This was a great interview. Sean, your patience to allow Brandon to answer, is something that I, too, wish to attain. Thank you 🙂
I sincerely appreciate Sean’s willingness for good faith dialogue.
A rare and much needed thing these days.
Sean McDowell, Why would You give any platform to such a false teacher? Next you’ll be interviewing Kenneth Copeland or Joel Osteen? Calling them out on your platform is one thing but to give them interview space to help spread there heresy and lies is another?
The Bible says we should call out false teachers: Ephesians 5:11 ESV
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
But it doesn’t say we should interview them?
Romans 16:17-18 ESV
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
The patience and respect that he is showing this false teacher, this wolf in sheep's clothing, is exemplary. I can only hope to reach that level of honor one day.
Just because you disagree with him does not make him a ‘false teacher’. The only true future for Christianity, is one that focus more on Jesus and his teachings on how to treat others and not on the archaic Old Testament stuff or the one mention in the Bible of homosexuality which seems to have a broader context and been more culturally relevant than spiritually. People are walking away from the church because there is no reason to go if it’s all going to be about preserving conservative convention which doesn’t seem to have ever been the primary concern of Christ. Jesus was a liberal in his time. If Jesus was alive today, most Christians would accuse him of being woke. 😂
@@mercurialshift5793 there are many verse on homosexuality. There is no compromises. Every word I'm the Bible is truth and all of the Bible is relevant. Jesus did not come to abolish the old testament he came to fulfill prophesy the old testament is just as relevant as the the new and the new cannot stand alone. Why do you think jesus and the apostle quote from it. Your argument it part or the problem with modern Christianity and one the day the sheep will be separated from the goats and the chaff from the wheat and the sticks from the straw.
@@mercurialshift5793 He is a false teacher. Just because you have your opinion doesn't make a difference.
Jesus is alive today he is eternal. You are a very lost and confused person! Jesus was not a liberal he was more strict than the Old Testament. Jesus is not a social justice warrior and you are very wrong in your thinking. He is definitely not "woke". It is only in your imagintion.
@@mercurialshift5793Yes, unfortunately, Brandon is a false teacher.
@@opticalraven1935 That would be your opinion. I think you’re missing out on a whole lot of symbolism and deeper teachings when you take the Bible literally. I think there is great wisdom is all ancient spiritual texts and traditions but no human author is capable of speaking as god. Only god has ultimate authority to speak for god. The written word is never enough. To me believing that human beings are capable of speaking as god and gods final and complete word, through a written text is a pretty radical belief.
This was fantastic. THANK YOU! That we could all be this informed, patient, and charitable while speaking about Christianity and seeking truth. Thank you, Sean!
Brandon reminds me of 2nd Timothy 4:3-4. I'll add verse 2 for context. "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myth."
Great conversation Sean. Very respectful, informative & loving. You're setting a good example of what good apologetics should look like - listening, learning & loving; and at the same time giving the biblical answer for the faith within you. Standing firm for the truth of God's word in a loving way. Thank you. You consistently present the truth in this way with whomever you talk with. These people leave with an appreciation of you and your beliefs, but don't feel belittled or abused.
Well done Sean. You have demonstrated a beautiful model for dealing with disagreements between Evangelicals and Progressives. Your constant "seeking clarification" and "I just want to understand" statements to Brandon reflected a rare graciousness that the rest of us can learn from.
Sean your ability to hear and seek to understand where a person is coming from AND give them credit for where they excel WHILE holding them accountable not to your 'feelings' or 'opinions' but to facts and do so while also giving them grace is truly impressive. Subbed!!
God bless you, Sean! Thank you for constantly showing us how to treat people with grace and the issue with God's eternal Truth. As with Paul's exhortation, I pray that we follow your thoughtful and courageous example as you follow that of Jesus.
I so admire Sean’s patience and ability to have these conversations respectfully. I aspire to conduct myself similarly.
i struggle with that greatly, seeing how i want to ring the neck of people who blaspheme the word of God for their own selfish , want to be accepted by the world reasons
@@itsa-itsagames Relatable
Thanks, Sean. I am impressed you can dialogue with him. He has done a lot of damage to a lot of people who follow him.
And he will be held accountable for it. God will not be mocked.
Yes he sure has. He’s a false teacher teaching a false Gospel.
God is sovereign over that.."such were some of you"
This is why I love you Dr. Sean McDowell! Thank you for being a great example for all of us. I enjoyed seeing Brandan interact with you and the Scriptures, and while I may not agree with him I at least now know why he believes what he believes.
You're too kind. Thanks for watching!
I agree, Sean is a sensitive and humble Christian Evangelical Orthodox apologist. My question is why, like Brandon, is there so few like him? Why has so many who say they share his beliefs come across as judgemental, angry, arrogant and frankly, unloving? I know this is probably is not a popular take on this podcast (not Sean's fault) but trust me,
from personal experience and many, many others who have become disillusioned from what they witness from Orthodox theology. Sean if I could make one suggestion that before you send out more missionaries out to save the lost souls outside of your church you find a way to reach the believers in your church who need to become aware of what transformation in and with the love of Christ means.
i’m so glad i got to hear you speak, Sean, at Impact 360 all those years ago!! and how you really demonstrate what you taught us. i love this respectful conversation.
PRAISE GOD for you brother Sean! If I may add an encouragement, I have always appreciated you and the way you speak to those who you differ with. Such wisdom and grace flows from your mouth and I pray the Lord continues to use you well. I will grow in the charge you consistently leave us with, to graciously listen to the lost and to patiently bring brothers back from their wandering.
That’s super kind, thanks!
Sean McDowell, Why would You give any platform to such a false teacher? Next you’ll be interviewing Kenneth Copeland or Joel Osteen? Calling them out on your platform is one thing but to give them interview space to help spread there heresy and lies is another?
The Bible says we should call out false teachers: Ephesians 5:11 ESV
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
But it doesn’t say we should interview them?
Romans 16:17-18 ESV
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Sean, I'm choking up to witness so much graciousness from you. I pray I can learn to be more like it too. We Christian should be exactly like that, and we can understand that Brandan's ideology isn't to do with whether there's something wrong with Christianity and the Bible itself but with the people who call themselves Christians and fail to mirror the centrepiece of Christianity that is Jesus.
Thank you so much for such a blessed and gracious talk. God bless you both and keep enlightening us all in this journey of ours to become more like Jesus. 🙏🏼❤️
I AM SO GLAD THEY DID THIS VIDEO. It seems like there’s such a genuine curiosity between views, and I adore that so much I feel like it makes the conversation so much more fun and interesting/engaging to viewers. Of course it’s also very important. I just love that they’re so civil with each other and not bickering.
I am so grateful for this conversation on so many levels.
Good interview Sean. Been a Christian for over 55 years. A Sunday School teacher almost my entire adult life, (Baptist). My observation is that most evangelicals are lazy about bible study and understanding the foundations of their faith. Therefore, they are intimidated by challenges to their theology and easily silenced. I have rarely found them to be nasty and aggressive. I'm sorry that Brandan has had a different experience. Apparently you as well. I think you and your dad have consistently demonstrated that a true apologists for Christ must reflect the love of Christ for those with whom we disagree.
Wow, Brandon this conversation is very uncovering of you. You called it 'my gospel'. Enough said.
I love being a Christian and following Jesus❤ I pray for all of us learning and growing in our faith
Love you guys! Thanks for having this conversation: both Brandan for making yourself vulnerable to Sean as a guest, and Sean for your grace and hospitality as a host!
Brandon is a false teacher!
The real reason he became a progressive "Christian" was because he wanted to claim homosexuality isn't a sin. He loves his sin more than he loves truth
Great conversation. Prayers for Brandon. I am one who has experienced church hurt. It took picking up God's Word independently and reading it. I will honestly say not under the right intentions yet God used it and wrecked me. It was like the light bulbs came on for the first time.
When Sean was giving his 30 second explaination on Jesus. It was like I was watching the world cup finals, I was rooting not for Sean, but for truth !
Truth is the winning team, now and always.
And although it is extremely difficult for me to watch Brandan say what he says. I do pray this man is on the road to Damascus, and encounters Christ.
Lastly Sean, may God bless you and continue to provide you with the ability to remain loving and faithful to the truth . 🙏
A beautiful example of how each of us must work out our salvation in fear and trembling! Insults and threats are the abortion of the patience and kindness our Father has for us. Are we to forget His words and behave like beasts towards with whom we disagree? May it never be! There's a mark on us if we do. Thank you, Sean, for your grace. Thank you, Brandon, for sharing your reasoning. I cannot agree, but I am obedient out of love for my Father which means I love you in accordance with the command of my Savior, and I do so with a humble and grateful heart.
I was in the new age occutle before accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior. While in the new age I attended a service at a progressive church and I found it the ignorance of those in attendance so amusing because there was only one difference between what was being taught and performed within that church and what was being taught at the new age gathering places I went to. The one difference was they referred to a god and new agers called it universe or source. This kept me from the saving grace of Christ for years. What occurred in that service and the progressive christians I had in my life through work and hobbies just validated me in my new age beliefs. Listening to Brandan shows me that not only is there new ageism still in the progressive churches but it sounds like the new age has gained more ground. Quite honestly, I'm a bit surprised he didn't bring up Christ consciousness because that's what he was describing but maybe he is not aware of that.
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) that is why we are to test every spirit (1 John 4:1-5). The "progressive" movement is heartrending to witness. It is adding such heavy burdens onto people and robbing of the only hope we have - Jesus Christ and His deity. I pray progressives would take the words in Matthew 7:21-23 to heart.
Let’s all of us conservative Christians be praying for Brandan to develop a deeper faith in the Creator and less faith in his own views and biases. Brandan doesn’t know the same Jesus I do. I’m saddened deeply by this.
Yes, it saddens me for his sake, but it doesn’t really surprise me. Brandon certainly needs prayer. 🙏
Sean, as I watched your restraint, grace and genuine love and respect for Brandon, I saw Christ in you. God bless you brother.
I was shouting at the screen the whole time in frustration. I pray to have more patience with people like Brandon. I also pray for Brandon, that his heart is soften, and his eyes open to God's truth and that he turns away from his own truth. In Jesus name
Jesus called the pharisees a brood of vipers. This was polite and fleshly, not Christlike.
The Bible interprets itself. We are supposed to let scripture interpret scripture. Also, we can't just pick and choose what we want to believe in the Bible. It's either all fact and truth or none of it is. There's no in-between in God's word. It's a shame when people distort scripture and think it evolves to fit our world progession. God's word never changes. God never changes. Period. Praying for Brandan.
Always had such respect for Dr Sean McDowell. After this conversation, it grew ten-fold!
Sean‘s willingness to have guest on with such polar opposite views to his shows his confidence in the truth that he believes. I think that sometimes Christians don’t want people like Brandan to have a platform because they’re afraid that his ideas will get out in a way they aren’t already. The reality is that he’s already out there and pretty popular. What a great blessing it is to have him on a video where Sean can demonstrate how to lovingly and firmly present the truth. I think there’s something extremely powerful about putting both viewpoints out there, side by side, and allowing people to see both (as well as the inconsistencies in Brandan’s views in particular) in order to make a decision for themselves.
Sean, your patience is admirable second to Jesus himself. It’s a character trait I am working with the Holy Spirit to continue to develop in me.
If this video taught me anything it is how important it is for me to be in my word🙏
I’m fairly new to scripture and listening to Brandan and his interpretation gave me a headache from all the addendum gymnastics and made me feel a little icky inside.
Thank you for your compassionate and knowledgeable responses that truly help me on my quest🙏
Did it make you feel icky because it requires you to think for yourself and not simply accept everything blindly? Without a sense of morality outside of Christianity, how can you really tell if the teachings are right or wrong? Could it be that god gave us the ability to seek truth whether or not we had access to a book written by human beings? No human beings can definitely speak for god and be the final word. If the kingdom of god is within you, it exists whether or not you read the Bible or not.
@@mercurialshift5793 wow ignore her she is lost and gers her kicks by attacking others. The kingdom of good within you? Sounds alot like a gnostic teaching...or a bit new age. And anything or anyone that contradicts or trys to discredit the Bible is wrong and those people will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. That's dangerous water and I encourage you to read Hebrews. Blasphemy is dangerous territory to be in.
@@DaytonCassel No it’s in your Bible. Jesus was once asked when the kingdom of God would come. The kingdom of God, Jesus replied, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Then came these striking words: “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)
@@DaytonCassel I don’t know who you think is lost or gets their kicks by attacking others but it isn’t me. I just like to provoke thought. The kingdom of god IS within you. I don’t know if you’ve ever thought about it but Jesus didn’t create the church. As far as Jesus knew, nobody was even writing this stuff down. And nobody did. Not right then. It wasn’t until after he had been dead for a couple hundred years. People passed stories down through oral tradition for thousands of years so that was still a thing. You ever play the game of telephone where your person whispers something into your ear and then you whisper into another persons ear and this continues down the line of people, till the last person announces what they heard. It’s hardly ever what was actually said.
So we should expect the Bible to be perfect? The Bible was written by human beings. We are connected to god but we can’t speak definitely for god. Spirituality shouldn’t be confined. That which is true spiritually, will always be true and echo through all great spiritual teachings. Not just the Bible. The Bible is full of great wisdom to be sure but no text, no matter how holy, can ever truly encapsulate the divine. By creating these limitations that the Bible is the last word and only certain people have the authority to decipher the meaning behind it, keeps people obedient. Which is why it was used as a form of social control for centuries. Power corrupts absolutely. The history of the church has some pretty dark moments. I’m sure when they were torturing people for heresy and burning women at the stake, they believed the Bible justified it. You can justify anything by interpreting parts of the Bible in certain ways.
Ultimately the responsibility is on the individual to foster their own relationship with god. Just following rules out of this fear of hell, isn’t true faith. In many ways, Christians today have become so politicized that they are telling their pastors that the teachings of Jesus are too liberal. If it isn’t about love and charity, what is Christianity for? Christians, who truly have followed the teachings of Jesus aren’t going to vote against providing healthcare to the poor or cutting social services. Christians in the US have the power to change their country by insisting politicians do what’s right instead of what is in the interest of the wealthy but the politicians are telling you how to feel and what to believe these days. Not Jesus.
@@mercurialshift5793 John 1: 1-5 How do you know God if you don’t know His Word? Brendan is literally using God’s word, albeit erroneously. That’s usually the same tired argument which is to attack God’s Word to invalidate it. Who gave us morality? Was it humans?
Let’s follow that logic. If we don’t have parameters, like God’s Word, to guide us what happens? We see examples of this throughout history. We do not possess the ability to regulate ourselves outside of God’s standard for morality.
What’s icky about Brandan is he’s misinterpreting God’s word and using it to mislead others.
The oral traditions argument is old and worn out. This was documented history, some dated within 5 years after Jesus’ death by eyewitness account and testimony. If that nullifies the Bible then I guess every book you’ve ever read is void, as well. How else could history be documented? The completed Bible we have today took many years to compile due to years of persecution. Also, if you’re nullifying the Bible why are you quoting the Bible if it has no legitimacy to you?
Thanks, Sean great conversation, appreciate your kindness and gentleness towards your guests. So sorry, Brandan, that you were hurt by the part of the Body of Christ. I pray you will find healing from all the hurt and pain.
I echo Brandan's closing statement. Thank you for having a civil conversation with him. It's important to understand where they're coming from because understanding leads to connection and fellowship where it's truly needed.
People like this, who are genuinely seeking God are not the enemy. God wants them to seek Him. And that's beautiful.
Sean, you continue to teach me how to be able to have constructive conversations with those which whom we differ. Just wow. Thank you so much for your godly example. 🤗
You're welcome. I keep trying to get better at it myself and appreciate the encouragement.
But after that constructive conversation do you tell them they are wrong and in this case preaching a false preaching? Or do you just go about your day?
@@martinmcgrath5804 Sean reminds me of the religious people from the story that want to Jesus crucified more than someone who understands the gospel. He has with him the law just like the religious people. I find no fault with the LGBT whatsoever.
@@martinmcgrath5804 I am pretty sure Brandan already knows that Sean thinks he is wrong. Sean also thinks Brandan is wrong. What leads you to believe that Brandan is not aware that Sean thinks he is NOT wrong?
Amen
Sean, you are a treasure. Thank you for your example of standing firm in a way that values the truth and promotes conversation.
Thanks Lane. I really enjoy these conversations and appreciate Brandan being willing to engage.
I want to be an imitator of Sean as he imitates Christ. Thank you for the way you allowed Brandan to speak his points of view fully while still being clear on christian orthodoxy.
Wow. I don't watch every video you put out but without fail, every time I tune in, I'm reminded why I subscribed in the first place.
More grace to you and I pray your uncompromising yet respectable approach inspires more Christians as they speak to others in the world. 🙏
My heart breaks for these progressive/liberal thinking/believing christians. I'm broken and angry at the same time. What seems so obvious to a traditional believing christian (me) is a totally foriegn language to those of the progressive camp. This deception has infiltrated the Church while we were sleeping.
Thank you Sean for your example and ministry! I so much appreciate it.
I can see an issue in your response when you labeled Sean’s guest as, “progressive / liberal thinking / believing Christian” as is every one of theses labels are evil. I came from this view point, until life confronted me face to face, which caused me to see my own misunderstanding of God. This label calling is the basis of our current political divide and the inability to listen to others. Sean and Brandan have different views but they are both willing to listen and express their differences without labeling each other in a negative way. They both are using the Jesus way, in my opinion.
If you were a traditional Christian u would be a catholic not an evangelical
@@gdiaz8827 only orthodox christianity is unchanged
@@jamescannon7267the gospels are whatever I say they are and even if we have opposite interpretations on key points of theology it’s all the same because words don’t mean anything. Good luck with that
@@jamescannon7267 Completely agree with you. That’s how Jesus would’ve handled it.
This is an excellent opportunity to learn more what others think and to search out a deeper understanding of who Jesus is an isn't. Why we need to continue studying the Word and show Love and Grace while promoting Truth. To those who say that this person should have no platform I believe you may have missed what Jesus calls us to do which is win souls to Him not forcefully ensnare them. I am really enjoying this channel Sean, thanks to you trying to follow God and providing this content.
I loved this conversation. I think Brandon did a great job articulating why he has reached his conclusions. Kudos to Sean for allowing him to speak and being willing to have this conversation and not rushing to judgement, heresy, false teacher criticism. It shows that you are intelligent and know how to control your emotions when people disagree with you. I find that many evangelicals have beliefs about progressive Christians that are not true simply because they don't really understand what progressive Christians are saying and jump to conclusions and assumptions.
After listening to this interview, I believe that I jumped to the correct conclusions and assumptions about Brandan.
Brandon is leading many to hell with his false teachings. Please do not listen to him.
What Brandan does is he picks and chooses the verses that he agrees with and discards the verses that he deems immoral or wrong. He is truly a master of the "word salad". In other videos, he has declared that God lied, that Jesus was racist, that pornography is not bad, that abortion is good, and that Jesus made mistakes, etc.. His arrogance is staggering.
@@Danny-uz9zb You could say the same thing for evangelicals as far as picking and choosing and the arrogance of their self-righteousness and gatekeepers of who is welcome at the table.
@NC-vz6ui Well, then I guess that you've been going to the wrong church. If a minister is teaching false doctrine, then you should flee from him. Brandan shoots holes in his own beliefs. He's a follower of Jesus, yet he has said that God lied and that Jesus was racist. If he really thinks that, then he's pretty dumb to profess to be a follower of Jesus.
Porn is apparently a good thing, and people in the porn industry are good people. Does this sound biblical to you?
This was fantastic, Sean. You too, Brandan. It's good to see two of my acquaintances chatting together like this.
Evan! Thanks my friend 👊
Brandan's an apostate. We're to have no association with the unfruitful works of darkness he promotes. I pray God silences his lying tongue.
We shouldn't acquaint ourselves with teachings of demons
Brandon is a false teacher!
@@Thedisciplemike not sure what you mean by this. If you mean we shouldn't love our theological enemies, then your issue is with Jesus, not me :)
it wasn't called "progressive Christianity" when I was a child, but that is exactly how I was brought up by my mother. Which led me eventually to witchcraft. Luckily because of other things happening in my life, I came back to true Christianity. I'm having to learn apologetics and I'm very careful as to who and what I listen to and I'm learning how to read and study the bible.
Blessings to you!
I think that's the point of these shills on you tube. Satan is subtle
If Witches believed what Brandan believes, then I wish for all to be Witches!
I'm praying for you, Brandan. Thank you for facilitating this conversation, Sean.
Shame on you! Instead of being the smug "know-it-all" who judges others, you should pray for yourself, not for this brave young man who is honestly seeking the truth...
*ironically judges OP while condemning them for judging*
@@wakeuppeople7180 You should pray for Brandan too. The Lord will send him to an eternal lake of fire if he doesn’t repent of his heresy and turn towards the real Christ. You are not saved by earnestly seeking truth. You are saved by believing in the real Christ.
@@wakeuppeople7180 brandon does not follow God's word..... of he's looking for truth, he should be following te Bible.
@Morgan Ratzlaff woahh!! That's so true
Thank you Sean. I look forward to more of this kind of dialog.
You bet. More to come!
Very good interview full of love and conviction by the truth of who Jesus is and what He came to do. That is where my heart broke for Brandan. Jesus came to set the oppressed (those shackled by sin and death) free. I'm so sad that he does not see that. It is so grievous because anything else we do in following Christ's is wood hay and stubble if it doesn't set people free from sin and death. It's futile to afirm people with flattery if it's only for the season of a feel good life on earth and not the freedom from an eternity of suffering.
2 Peter 1:20
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”
That's right it's true meaning is only known to god.
@@dansaber4427- And revealed thru the Holy Spirit.
I want to be another voice bringing attention to the way you two held yourselves during the conversation. You were both very self controlled and direct about what your thoughts were, asked important questions and shared perspective and learning without getting stuck in a defensive or insulting cycle. Great job guys. I felt like i learned things from both of you and I appreciate the civilized and productive discussion/"debate" in furthering understanding and learning.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Absolutely the best way to handle an opposing opinionist! This was so well done and fruitful and I think Brandan walked away with some things to think about. I applaud your ability to hold back, not many could take that approach (including myself). Well done!
He states several times that Sean is reading with bias in a need for Jesus to be sinless. Yet Sean could easily make the case that he and his progressive contemporaries are doing the same, out of a need for Jesus to be sinful, as they reject substitutionary atonement. But Sean doesn't take the bait because he wants to make the case based on the Scriptural text. Brandan, in turn, makes his defense based on the fact he receives mean tweets from conservative Christians.
The elephant in the room is Brandan’s lifestyle choice. This is the underlying reason for his desperate deep need to twist the scriptures, deny Christ, and reduce Him to being a racist, and a sinner! The apostasy is here…how should we respond? I knew Brandan when he was a child. His deception has deepened to a dangerous level that boggles the mind! I pray for the poor souls that listen to him and are being deceived. My question is, if Jesus was not the perfect sacrifice, if the Bible is merely a book not to be taken as absolute truth, why lie and say your a follower of Christ? Because the real goal is to be contrary and deceive and to follow the example of the father of lies and constantly say every opportunity you are given, “…has God said”? Why give him another platform to spread his lies and confusion? His condescending arrogance is stunning! He is taking the Lord’s name in vain and is a false teacher.
@@lindaroche1363 "precisely!
he's Progressive, alright
but he's not a Christian.
@@lindaroche1363 Amen!
Rosaria Butterfield once said, "I do not know myself more than the Word. The Word is Jesus. He is the Word made flesh." Jesus was perfect, therefore the Word is without error. There are no problem passages. Jesus is head over the Church, therefore the Word is our authority. Sadly. many believers have replaced the Word with themselves or whatever culture dictates. Sean - your content is without a doubt some of the best in all of Christian apologetics. Thank you. Please keep these interviews coming because your technique and style train the rest of us on how to engage a grim and dark world like the one Brandan has succumb to. I was Brandan.....but Jesus. Lord, please open Brandan's eyes to the truth in Jesus name.
Sean, what an encouraging example you are for the body of Christ. I greatly commend your restraint but also your ability to lovingly point to what the scriptures say and not read into or interpret by our own understanding. Prayer for Brandan is absolutely needed as it's evident he hasn't grasped the gospel at its core.
Extremely well done and please keep up the fantastic work!
Fantastic conversation. Thanks to both of you for speaking clearly and being a shiny example of civil discourse! God bless you both.
Thanks for a good conversation, Sean. I only wish the hundreds of folks in the comments could listen and consider other perspectives as inclusively and openly as you. Praying for the Spirit of Christ to open their hearts and cast out all fear.
Thanks for coming on. I think we modeled well how to have civil, substantive dialogue on issues that matter. Let’s do it again.
Thank you Brandan. And I echo your prayer wholeheartedly.
Thanks (again) Brandan for engaging. Definitely NO FEAR from me. God is sovereign. Anyone speaking falsehoods will be judged by God, and I do not wish such judgment upon anyone. Ultimately, I see that many of us ("evangelicals") are NOT patient or kind in hearing such radically different thoughts such as yours. That's "normal", but not Christlike. We are sinners, after all. (Not an excuse, but a sad reality.) My hope is that I, along with ALL others here, will pray for you (AND OURSELVES) that we ALL set aside our prideful opinions and thoughts, and have God reveal his perfect Truth to us.
(Please also see my other reply) Brandan: If you don't believe that Jesus is God, but merely a human (or elevated human?), then how are YOU to be saved? How is anyone to be saved? What IS the Gospel? Please share what you would tell someone if they were on their deathbed and you only had 5 minutes left to explain how they could have eternal life.
Would you agree that the NT speaks of salvation offered through the death and resurrection of Christ, in trusting Christ alone as your Savior and Lord? How could an imperfect sinful MAN atone for your sins or mine? ** If I misunderstood your beliefs, please help me (and others) understand.** Otherwise, it seems that once you deny that Christ is one divine person of the Trinity, then what did Jesus die for? More importantly, WHY was He (Christ) resurrected? (Or do you deny the resurrection?) Thank you again for the dialogue, as I know that it does take courage to engage like this.
@Rev. Brandon Robertson In the hundreds of comments, do you think there is some wisdom in some of the rebuke? You desire others to learn from your teachings, are you willing to learn from others and recieve correction and instruction like the Bible tells us is wise to do? There is wisdom in the multitude of counselors after all, can't God be speaking to you with some of these voices that have heard what you have to say?
There is a difference between asking questions, and making statements. You are never a heretic for asking a question, however, making this statement is… there is but one truth. If Brandan listens to himself, all he would hear is, it is my view, my theology, my perspective, my interpretation, my gospel. My oh, my….
All of the people saying how Sean has a lot of patience and giving him props for being able to have this conversation seems to me like they completely missed the overall message of what caused his views and Sean’s message at the end of their interview on the failure to be Christlike within the community are likely the same people that caused people to stop following organized religion. 🙏 we need to have this conversation more often, this is beautiful and god working though both people.
Brandon: I’m not interested in councils and man made doctrines
Why do you think that Jesus made mistakes?
Also Brandon: there is a long tradition of theologians that come up with this
Sadly he is a Council onto himself.
he rejects councils and doctrines formulated in the ancient catholic church, but is more interested in professionals doing historical research supported by evidence...that's the difference.
Why do you think Jesus didn’t make mistakes? Because men wrote it down and it became church doctrine. Jesus told his followers he wasn’t going to a party, but then he did. Jesus cursed the fig tree for not producing even though it was out of season.
@@kylepetruzziello3321 That's blatantly false. His ideas are not supported by evidence of history nor traditions of history nor scripture and therefore not God. He accepts and rejects what he feels fit in the face of all of those things and his position is as weak as any other pagan who sees himself as the highest authority. His broken ideas are as transparent as glass to anyone with an understanding of history, or scripture.
Bless you Brandon for having the courage to stand your ground, against that spirit that calls out "heresy" just because some have not moved beyond legalism of the written word. Did not Jesus say to these sincere and zealous believers in God..."you seek life from your scriptures yet they speak of Me (the LIVING WORD). In the eyes of the religious dogma centred "church" of that time, Jesus was also a heretic and was attacked continually. We see progressive revelation of the true nature of God in the Jewish scriptures. Many of the prophets were stoned for voicing a more gracious and merciful God than the consensus of their time. The full revelation we have been blessed with the person of Jesus who said I AM the WAY (to the unity of our humanity and divinity) the TRUTH (this reality to be realized progressively) and the LIFE (His life to be lived out in ourselves progressively).
Dear brethren we are to grow in this knowledge made available by the CROSS and subsequent Holy Spirit that leads us. Walking by faith is more than merely adhering to a belief system based on writings by finite men, however, inspired by the indwelling universal Spirit of Christ. It's ALL about Jesus (God saves) Christ (God's presence in us knowingly as Christians or not). St Paul came to see this on his way to Damascus. (Galatians 1/16).
Yes I love my Bible, but I do not worship it or see it as my final authority, rather I thank God for it, in that it led me to Christ who in me is the final authority by means of the Holy Spirit.
Christianity was embraced my myself in midlife, including fundamentalist Protestantism which was taught. More so intellectually now looking back. I was truly born of the Spirit many years later in Bible reading alone with the H.S.
Today I see and understand things somewhat differently now, more in line with Eastern Orthodoxy and Franciscan type of Orthodoxy. My Protestant brethren see me now as a heretic and that's OK. I'm sure God's grace is far far bigger than the " tribal" debates that Christians engage in...strangely by one group always attacking the other who are merely desiring to walk in a personal faith that grows (progressive?) With a living hope and an inclusive Love that embraces all of creation.
My heart is saddened how poorly the witness of us Christians has been to the world over the past 2,000 years. No wonder that finally the western world is walking away from the church. Was it by the "flesh" that men built it by traditional institutionalism, controlling by man's fear of death and hell and torment for those not believing in the finished work of Jesus. Please brothers and sisters who walk in this knowledge, allow grace for one another as we are all involved in the race to the finish line as St Paul put it. Some may be just happy to run a little slower, but then that's not an excuse for them to pick on those who are running maybe a little faster.
Maranatha ❤️
P.S. Brendan follow up on the Trinity issue please. It was a reality before God incarnated Himself into our physical universe. The Trinity is the very reason for the reality of RELATIONSHIP. Sean bless you for your grace shown to Sean.
Thank you for having this conversation! May God’s word not return void!
Amen
I see God was working through the conversations between Sean and Brandon.
Thanks Sean for modeling Jesus’s humbleness and gentleness. I am learning from Sean how to ask good questions helping myself and people thinking of truth by going back to the Bible.
I will remember Brandon in prayer that he will be guided by God and taking some of Biola’s courses. 🙏🏻
GOD wasn't working on Brandon, you're kidding yourself.
@@suzettegarcia6648We don't know that. We don't know a seed will be a tree until it is planted. We may not see the tree bloom yet but I pray God will pull Brandon out of darkness.
@@opticalraven1935 He is a professing believer in Jesus Christ. We are not talking about an unsaved person, We are talking about someone who has a knowledge of the truth and has twisted it...
Wow, you handled that so well! I am feeling convicted about my fear of having these conversations and my arrogance in not being willing to consider a non-evangelical view of the Bible. I firmly side with you and was bristling hearing his views, but you are a great example of disagreeing agreeably (while leaving us with a clear understanding of what your/my firmly held beliefs are). Thank you.
I think the answer to the last question is the MOST revealing. He indeed has a point. Evangelicalism does have massive problems in its institutions. Granted, Moody is just one institute but if he felt that way during those 4 years there may be some truth to that. I believe the church and its centers of education need to be freed of the bondage of legalism and Uber-religion driven by fear and control.
This was incredibly well done and I look forward to hearing more. My heart does go out to Brandon because it seems he was genuinely hurt. Well done Sean!
My friend went to Moody as well.
He is now a full blown progressive, affirming sin and saying "nobody needs Christ."
Moody my have legalistic professors, but progressivism uses the flaws of man to reject Christ.
Hi Steve! Not sure I'm clear on what you're suggesting regarding the church needing to be "freed of the bondage of legalism and Uber-religion" ? Is there a specific church or pastor can you point to that is perpetuating legalism? And to clarify, by legalism, you mean performing acts in order to earn God's love and our salvation?
I would hope (and should pray) that NO ONE commenting here is assuming that strict obedience to God's laws and precepts EARNS our salvation. Regarding salvation, I assume most of us instantly think of verses like Ephesians 2:8, in contrast to verses like Isaiah 64:6 ... which make it clear how/whether our DEEDS factor into our salvation.
Yes, the "church" has hurt people. However, God is sovereign and continues to offer the gift of faith who come to him with poverty in spirit, mourning their sin and turning from their rebellion against God, and trusting in Christ as Savior ... and following Christ as LORD of their lives. (What does LORD mean to you, by the way?)
Thank you Sean and Brandan for engaging in a civil and important discussion. Thank you for giving one another the opportunity to define your beliefs. Really interesting, I hope you both do this again.
Amazing restraint and grace you've show here, Sean. Your counterpoints and holding Brandan to accountability and a correct doctrinal standard were humbling. As a pastor, I GRIEVE the path folks like this are paving that others are trusting and faithfully following. 😬🙏🏻 "Wide gate" ministry is leading good people away from God's truth. Blessings and protection on you and your work for the Kingdom!
Thanks Sean and Brandon, great conversation. Brandon's final statement about many Evangelicals being arrogant and fearful is true. I believe it's because so many are so ill prepared to even have a conversation about their faith. So they start from a position of fear and their only defense is arrogance. You are obviously WRONG. No conversation just name calling.
I write this as an Evangelical.
Thing is with Brandon, no matter how kind your are, he'll say the opposite of your behavior and still call ya a bigot.