1 Corinthians 1:18 in the Bible, wrote and i quote, *“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us(who believes) who are being saved it is the power of God."*
@rogernichols1124 Not if the son, was much as committed and an author of it. Jesus is God, same objective the method does not seem very comfortable to our human mind. But God is the one who death cannot limit.
@@rogernichols1124 What happened to Jesus was an act of justice and mercy for all of humanity. Had it been merely a human doing that to another human it would be different. But it wasn’t. And it couldn’t have been, because a human couldn’t raise another human from the dead. Jesus is alive and His life gives ALL who believe in Him; life. It’s not something that can be understood fully until you accept Him. Once you do and you’re filled with the Holy Spirit, He’ll speak to your heart from within. And all of a sudden all of the things that you didn’t understand before, you will understand. His love will overflow from your heart and you’ll understand why He did what He did. It was for you….
You can't debate one's testimony. Ayan who had lost hope is now full of hope and life, how do you challenge that. I praise God for setting Ayan free. Hallelujah.
@@abdo.2020-k4ltheir counter argument is that those people haven't truly opened their hearts to god. They haven't looked hard enough. I don't it agree but there it is
@@FranzLiszt-n3k but what type of god is this? a god who give you your brain with enormous capabilties and then wants you to believe in him based on openning your heart - i.e just have faith. And if thats the case, how are we going to know that god? is he a chirstian god, islamic god, budhist god, hindu god, sunni, shia, catholic, protestant..if it just open your heart. And after you figure out all this mess, lets just ask, why in the world is this all hide and seek nonsense in the first place? Finally, it may there be a god, but atleast he will not be like what these religions/narratives describe.
I've heard many Christian apologists and modern intellectuals speak about Richard Dawkins, but this was my first time actually listening to him. What struck me is that Dawkins seems to have a deeper understanding of the significance of God than many Christians. He even said it himself-if it were true, it would change everything. (22:30) If more Christians held such a profound view of God, the world would likely be a better place. May the Holy Spirit open Richard Dawkins' mind to the reality of God.
The world would be a better place if we can undo all the harm done to us by Heaven. Until then, if that time ever comes, we have been enslaved by heaven. First thing heaven did to us was => Deny us the tree of Life => Shorten our livespan => Afflict us with Territorial disputes Humans are trapped in a prison the bible tells us was designed by God of Heaven in self defence. The problem facing us, is that we don't even know where Heaven is, Astrologically. And we don't know what Heaven will do if we Foolishly show up to the gates of heaven unprepared.
Lol, are you trying to say that Christians are the problem in this world? Being a Christian doesn’t mean you will make the world better. If you are a Christian, you know that the Bible says Christians don’t belong to this earth, and according to Jesus, Christians will be hated by the world because of Him. It’s funny how you speak for Christians when you have zero knowledge about Christianity.
If Dawkins has a deeper understanding of God, then why is he still an atheist? And you said if Christians had a better understanding of God like Dawkins, the world would be a better place? You're making it look like the world is a mess because of Christians. Do you know this world belongs to Satan? Do you know Jesus said, 'They will hate you because of me?' Do you know Jesus said those who believe in him don't belong in this world? You are talking about the Bible on your channel, and you don't know all these? And do you know according to the Bible, the world will worsen?
Ayaan received faith by humility. It’s impossible to have faith with a heart of pride and arrogance but rather by a heart which is “clothed” with humility: “for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble”.
I went through the same journey like Ayaan, it’s a spiritual rebirth, humbling experience where like God introduced himself to me, just like how israelites saw God’s work by parting the red sea.
I just love how they embrace at the start and finish. Nothing moves me more than two people who still care for each other deeply despite having differing opinions. This is how civil discourse should be done.
Am a synthetic biologist created first transgenic mosquito in Africa and yet am deep spiritual Christian who is 100% dedicated my life to jesus. No conflict!
Physician here trained and practicing in the united states. Highly educated in the maths and sciences and I agree completely. So many athiests are foolish thinking faith in Christ and reason are incompatible or believers must be uneducated idiots.
The obnoxious clapping when each side thinks their team has scored a point is annoying and a sign of the times. I’d be curious to know how many people in the crowd were actually open to having their mind changed that day or if they were there just to confirm their bias.
@@JuntusOrothonjust because you are the same, doesn't mean anyone else is! We're not all sheep! The sad thing is, Dawkins may have convinced her to leave Christianity in a months time and as she admitted it was the only thing that saved her life, will he, you and the other atheists be happy if she kills herself. Pathetic
@@tommedia7742I think his point is that these debates aren’t meant to be for entertainment. It’s not a show. I agree that the clapping should be held at the end
@Von.NorthEnd claping on the end for both speakers will never show who get more support from the audience. Even the time of claping to favor one of them, will no prove that person was right or with better arguments.
@@Shaliaj7 The point is that its not important to know who convinced the audience there. The debate is not a democratic process thats decided by the non-random set of people attending.
Thanks so much for organizing this conversation. And also big thanks to the man in the middle. Great questions. Exactly what I needed clarification on.
A cake will always have a baker, but there are countless religions that lack one. You can appreciate the Mormons' family centric traditions without believing Joseph Smith
The only difference is that we can observe the baker’s contributions first hand. I’d say cultural Christianity is more analogous to enjoying a slice of cake with specific ingredients that you have been raised to be familiar with. There’s no inherent meaning or purpose behind it, but it is sentimental to you in it’s own way.
Lovely testimony. I have listened to you as an atheist. Along with Richard and others. I love listening to John Lennox for years...love his humour in debate also. God bless you in your Christian walk now. Pray others will come to Christ .
@@AcidGubbaIt is, and I believe so though we, including the most knowledgeable ones, now know the reality only in part. If we know the infinite God (the Truth) full well, we have become like God
The test of a 'Christian' is not so much a theological or even a Christological assertion that can fit into a neat 'orthodoxy' , but that they can convey , somehow , the living Christ to another person , and this woman does that for me in an extraordinary and real way .
You clearly have some portion of conscience telling you how unintelligible and illogical are your assertions about the man god who can be crucified. I am baffled how humans can buy the most illogical thing to 'save himself' even if it's a false salvation. You're following Paul, not Jesus. Jesus taught that the highest command is Shema, i.e. Oneness of God and Jesus fell on his face to worship the Father in heaven just like Muslims do. Jesus gave the criteria for the true prophet as teachings about the God (Oneness and the Law of God) and he also said the true prophet will recognise Jesus as the Messiah. Now let's examine Paul's teachings. Yes, he claimed Jesus to be the Messiah but Paul out of nowhere claimed that the Law is abolished. Wasn't Jesus circumsized? Wasn't he doing sabbath? Wasn't Jesus avoiding pork? What about Paul? All the opposites! Now examine Islam. Islam recognises Jesus as the Messiah. Islam confirmed sabbath for the Jews and also introduced light version of prohibitive Laws for the whole mankind.
The "test" of a christian is that they believe in christianity and its foundational documents (the bible). Modify that to being a nice person as you seem to, then there is no need or justification for the religion itself.
"Come to me all who are weary and heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am gentle and humble in heart and you shall find rest for your soul." --Jesus Matthew 11:28-29
@@FinsUp22 ALL of "us"! ;) YOU, show US He hasn't done anything! LOL! (Christianity is the most persecuted Faith in History yet it is here. What Year is it?)
@@FinsUp22 Jesus Lives, I once prayed for God to raise my dead pup, and it didn't happen, that broke my tiny mind. But coming closer to God, He is real, so real that language is difficult to explain Him, a Spiritual God to whom nothing is impossible yet you cannot control and harness. Full of compassion and love and yer justice and truth. We have come a long way to be here.
I’m really encouraged to hear that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has embraced Christianity! She has been such an inspiring speaker for me. I truly believe she came out on top in that debate. My hope is that she is lead by the spirit of the Lord guiding her and to become a powerful voice for our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Ayaan is wrong. You cannot choose what you believe. You are either convinced by the evidence for something or not. The fact that Ayaan is saying she is choosing to believe is a massive red flag that she is willfully trying to train herself to accept something that she does not accept by the evidence alone. She is craving comfort and acceptance, not truth. I am glad she "feels" happy so as far as that goes, that's fine, many people believe it is better to be wrong but happy rather than face up to what maybe a harsh reality and feel burdened by it. But it is obvious for all to see (unless you are another one of those who have actively trained yourself to believe) her comfort is imagined rather than real and I find that sad.
Love Ayaan’s point of view on how lost our young people are. Rational humanism. It van also be called a moral vacuum. If there is a vacuum in my soul, I can invite God in, or leave it to my own devices, and unwittingly I’m letting the devil in. As Ayaan says, it’s a choice. Yes Ayaan. I am a Christian. I will continue to pray for you, as you rely on your Savour to walk with you on this journey we call life: all the ups and downs and everything in between, and that God will use your talents and giftedness for His honour and glory. Amen.
yeah its hard to reason with someone who has had a trumatic experience and their religion saved them reguardless if the religion is actaully true or not, its true to them. Imo theres was no point in her coming on a pannel with dawkins as it was a personal experience and she litterally says to the audience its all subjective. im not taking away from her story she deserves a platform just not this one
No, she is a political/social/psychological Christian. She joined Christianity because of her hour of weakness and because she is afraid of wokeness/Islam/China. It's the same as man joining Christianity on his deathbed.
i felt soo too but her spirituality also comes from recognising the spiritual quality from the moral foundation with which christianity has civilised the west. to lose this quality would create a spiritual void of the west, thereby causing a rise in Islam which from her experience is quite revolting. If christianity produces this quality, then Christ who embodies it is who she has decided to look up to, indeed looks like she has found her cross and will follow the Christ.
Of course when you first become a Christian it is purely a spiritual experience and then become theological and doctrinal as you mature. She’s accepted God spiritually and she’s been living a life of an atheist, science, and naturalism. Now there’s no doubt that God exist and she will discover God on a personal level and God will guide her in her theology and doctrine.
You mean she has no reason to believe what she believes. She does because it's expedient for her (makes her feel better) or she thinks it's expedient for western civilisation. Whether it is actually true or not doesn't seem to have much interest for her. In my opinion that's a dishonest intelectual stance.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:01 *🌟 Introduction to Speakers and Background* - Ayaan Hirsi Ali's journey from Somalia to the Netherlands and her shift from Islam to atheism and then Christianity, - Richard Dawkins' prominence as an atheist and his public response to Hirsi Ali's conversion. 03:43 *😔 Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Personal Crisis and Conversion* - Hirsi Ali's struggle with depression and self-loathing leading to a turning point through prayer, - Her newfound faith in Christianity and the sense of connection and humility it brought. 06:53 *🤔 The Nature of Belief: Dawkins and Hirsi Ali* - Dawkins questions the literal belief in Christian doctrines such as the resurrection and virgin birth, - Hirsi Ali's perspective on faith as a choice and the wisdom she finds in Christianity's teachings. 12:02 *🌍 Christianity, Islam, and Western Civilization* - Hirsi Ali discusses Christianity's role in countering Islam and supporting Western values, - The difference between personal belief and societal impact of Christianity. 18:18 *🏛️ The Cultural and Moral Debate* - The consequences of secularizing society and the vacuum it creates, - Dawkins and Hirsi Ali explore the coexistence of reason and faith. 29:10 *🎻 The Role of Faith and Reason* - The discussion on how faith and reason can coexist and complement each other, - The impact of faith on human connection and civilization, and Dawkins' perspective on atheism's role. 31:17 *🌱 The Nature of Faith and Truth* - Discussion on the difference between comfort from faith and the truth of existential claims, - The debate on whether the comforting aspects of religion make its existential claims true. 33:46 *💭 Life After Death and Cultural Christianity* - Exploration of beliefs about life after death and the concept of a soul, - Dawkins' stance as a cultural Christian and the discussion on the utility of religion in society. 37:26 *⚖️ Islam, Christianity, and Societal Influence* - Hirsi Ali and Dawkins discuss the societal impact of Christianity and Islam, - Concerns about the influence of Islam in Western societies and the perceived decline of Christian influence. 42:08 *📜 Enlightenment and Secular Humanism* - Debate on the origins of secular humanism and its relationship with Christianity, - Discussion on the moral framework provided by religions versus secular humanism. 50:15 *🔍 Comparing Holy Books and Moral Teachings* - Comparison of the teachings of the Bible and the Quran, especially concerning morality, - Discussion on the unique characteristics of Jesus and Muhammad in their respective religions. 56:48 *🚨 Concerns About Radical Islam and Wokeism* - Shared concerns about the spread of radical Islamist ideologies in the West, - Discussion on the impact of these ideologies on university campuses and the response to global events. 01:00:22 *🌐 Clash of Civilizations* - Discussion on the idea of a clash of civilizations and the lack of a counter-message from secular or atheist humanism, - Concerns about the denial of cultural conflict and the rise of Islamist ideologies in Western societies. 01:02:47 *🛑 Muslim Rebellion and Reform* - Ayaan Hirsi Ali's outreach to Muslims and ex-Muslims, encouraging awareness of the dangers of Islamist ideologies, - Emphasis on the need to oppose totalitarian ideologies that exploit freedoms to promote their agendas. 01:05:19 *🚨 Warning Against Islamist Threats* - Ali's warnings about the potential consequences of Islamist ideologies gaining power, referencing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas, - A call to recognize and combat these threats to prevent the spread of barbaric practices. 01:06:21 *💉 Vaccination Metaphor for Ideological Combat* - Dawkins' metaphor of combating harmful ideologies with a "mild form of the virus" versus advocating for rationality and enlightenment, - The conversation concludes with this analogy, highlighting different approaches to addressing ideological threats. Made with HARPA AI
I can see how it could lead to depression and despair if a religion was your identity growing up and then suddenly you threw it all away without having something equivalent to take its place. That’s losing a big part of yourself.
I’m a former atheist that was raised secular without basically any religious background. I firmly believe that everyone has a God-sized emptiness inside their hearts that only He can fill. We don’t always tune into this - we’re busy with our everyday lives! But if you ever take a moment to really think about it, I think you will find the longing.
At the root of every atheist argument, is the pure anger that they dont get to go to a heaven that they dont believe in. They deeply want to go to heaven but cant understand why they cant get there. Christians (and other religions) want to help people get there. Atheist want to help people get out of a heaven they dont believe in.
If all other religions claim that theirs are the truth and the others are false then there are more chances for everyone to not go to heaven than going to heaven
My favorite two human beings on stage. Wow. As an atheist, I have a hard time agreeing with Ayaan but I do see her point. You have to play the game and if it is a game of emotions, your rationality just does not cut it. We are just a little minority with our materialist rational world view. They are huge! Ayaan deserves to be heard. She is a remarkable human being.
As Ayaan Hirsi Ali says, she is a new Christian. She has a lot still to learn. Christianity is about more than feelings. Believing in Jesus in not a blind leap of faith. Christianity is rooted in history unlike other religions. Read "Evidence that demands a verdict," "The Case for Christ," "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis, and The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? by FF Bruce, among many other books written by Christian scientists, journalists, archaeologists, some of whom were once skeptics.
How filled with 'humility' is Ayaan, & how blessed with 'Godly Grace'....this is where 'finding the Truth of God' begins !. Clearly the requirements to understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ! No pride , no arrogance! Give Ayann a 'medal for bravery'! If Dawkins is 'unaware' that society has been 'declining morally' over the past few decades, he really is 'blind' in his own beliefs!.
Anyone who thinks Christianity 's central message is love isn't aware of the history of Christianity which is soaked in blood as are all abrahamic religions. And the success of the western world is built upon the exploitation and conquer and torture done by white people over others fully enabled by their faith
"Morality declining over the past few decades " is because of propaganda. It's about money. Religion does that too. Mlns of money rotate in hagj or church, yet there are mlns of ppl homeless, starving. The stick has two ends
Some lessons from Quran Don't lie (22:30) Dont spy (49:12) Don't insult (49:11) Don't waste (17:26) Feed the poor (22:36) Don't backbite (49:12 Keep your oaths (5:89) Don't take bribes (27:36) Honour your treaties (9:4) Restrain your anger (3:134) Don't spread gossip (24:15) Think good of others (24:12) Be good to guests (51:24-27) Don't harm believers (33:58) Don't be rude to parents (17:23) Turn away from ill speech (23:3) Don't make fun of others (49:11) Walk in a humble manner (25:63) Respond to evil with good (41:34) Keep your trusts & promises (23:8) Don't insult others' false gods (6:108) Don't ask unnecessary questions (5:101) Don't call others with bad names (49:11) Don't claim yourselves to be pure (53:32) Speak nicely, even to the ignorant (25:63) Don't ask for repayment for favours (76:9) If enemy wants peace, ther accept it (8:61) Return a greeting in a better manner (4:86) Don't remind others of your favours (2:264) Make peace between fighting groups (49:9) Lower your voice and talk moderately (31:19) Don't ask too many favours from people (2:273) Speak gently, even to leaders of disbelief (20:44) Don't criticize small contributions of others (9:79) Try to make peace between husband & wife (4:128) Oppression/corruption is worse than killing (2:217) Preach to others in a good and wise manner (16:125) Don't accuse others of immorality without proof (24:4) Don't call someone disbeliever without knowing (4.94) Know your enemies can become your close friends (41:34) Don't wrongly consume the wealth of the vulnerable (4:29) Forgive others, as you woulc like Allah to forgive you (24:22) If unable to help a needy person, at least speak nice words (17:28) Verify information from a dubious source before acting upon it (49:6) Those who can should continue to spend on those less fortunate (24:22) Don't sit with those who mock religion until they change the subject (4:140) The worldly life is nothing but an illusionary enjoyment (3:185)
Everything sensible in Islam was taken from Judaism and Christianity. That is an historical fact. And these bits of coopted wisdom do not compensate for the violence, fear and contradictions inherent in Islam.
Oh is it... Please go and debate ChristianPrince live on youtube... He is spanking allah and his prop mohamad live on youtube using and showing their own Koran and Hadiths... It's actually fun to watch.
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14
A.man of his age who cusses out, that says a lot about his beliefs. How does anyone even listens to him. On the contrary this well educated woman, so humble yet articulate, non confrontational, it is amazing.
She chose to believe in a higher being based on a feeling of comfort that saved her from depression. It would have been convincing if she chose to believe it based on demonstrable evidence. I haven't seen her demonstrate at all the existence of such being. It should have been the best time to show it in front of everyone.
There's a story in the Bible about a man who had died and was speaking to I think it was Moses and he said; let me go back to my brothers and warn them about the judgment to come in the life hereafter. The prophet said to him; they have the testimony of the prophets and they do not believe. They won't believe a man returned from the dead. We atheists always say we want more evidence. God says he's given us more than enough evidence and we reject him. That's a choice we make every day. The wrath of God abides on you right now. Read the testimony. Start with the book of John, then read the other three gospels. After that, read the New testament.
As a meditator I can say Dawkin made more sense to me. I can totally understand what Aayan went through but she filled that hole with something ‘comforting’. But in reality she just fell into another hole, giving up on self belief and seeking refuge in something external, that’s the false path to spiritual growth and freedom, the trap we all fall into, clinging to our own beliefs and concepts.
Dawkin believes the world came from nothing and offered nothing in his presentation. In his attempt to offer “something” he run to one the emanated from Christianity which Ayaan clearly exposed him. His obsession with the word “nonsense” is the take away from this. Atheists offer nothing, including “sense”
It was a nice and polite discussion, and Dawkins was a gentleman. However, he knows that the moral equivalence he grants between Islam and Christianity is not true. He rationalizes his position by saying that the only thing significantly different between the two is that Christians don’t take Christianity seriously. The two religions differ greatly at their points of origin and have produced far different fruit because of their differences. He knows this.
The way she's saying she chooses to belive the further-fetched rational points of christianity, rather than saying they are a baseline truth for everyone on Earth is a slight tell. I speculate that since it picked her up out of deep depression, her brain has bonded with the connecton and is using it as a comforting factor in healing. Many people will find something that rips them away from dark depression and swear by it, be it cycling, running, writing.. all sorts of things and they truly make a huge bond with it, but religion has some much lore/backstory that comes with it, the brain probably sees it with rose tinted glasses after having a personal epiphany, even if it's true or not. I'm just glad she's out of her depression. :)
It's conceited for humans to believe our views of life are the pinnacle of understanding. We may simply not have the capability to understand it completely. A seagull will see a nuclear power station and happily build a nest there. But it will never have the capacity to appreciate what's going on around it.
@@TonyEnglandUK Precisely. That's the atheist position. That's the basis of science. You may have meant it that way, but those words often point to a "so there's something greater than us ... therefore God".
It seems like he is saying to her "I can't believe you believe this. I don't get how someone I respect so much can change their mind" it is beautiful. As a Christian I fail to see God in front of me and treat God like a tv show or chore. There is a real struggle here and it is what I take for granted sometimes.
Your reason can only take you so far. There are things which are unknowable and unprovable but which we must consider in our lives. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven, you cannot be genuinely sure, so it is up to you whether you believe or do not believe. Belief, and faith, are each a choice that you are able to make. You can consciously choose or reject it. Doubt does not contradict faith. It really boils down to what kind of life and what kind of existence you want.
@@chadhogan4979 Since christianity is based on the bible, and many things in the bible are not physically possible, doesn't that call into question the whole thing?
This is what a person says when they simply don't want to keep asking important questions because it really is tiring and often overwhelming. It's a I'm gonna take a break position. Take a break from intense scrutinizing of beliefs, hopes, and big ideas. And maybe they'll resume the questions later in life or maybe never at all again.
@@chadhogan4979Some of us don't have that level of control over our minds. I'm incapable of just choosing to believe something. Either I believe it (which for me is the same as knowing it), or I don't, OR I don't know for sure. With Christianity, I don't know if it's true, but I doubt it for several reasons. Therefore, I'm unable to convince or tell my brain to ignore my lack of knowledge and the presence of doubts, and just choose to believe it.
atheist abdoooools do not debate. They're like muslim abdooools lie all the time. It's not possible to debate a liar. And taqqyya is an intergal part of pdf file atheist religion as it is in islame. Actually, there's no obvious difference between atheist religion and islame. Mupedohammad or mao. No difference.
@@Shaliaj7 I was surprised that Dawkins put up with monologue! Christians seems to do the same thing under nonsensical discourse: evangelize. This is what Ayaan did. Wasted my time.
@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasnt but we’re talking about personal morals and their relation to what’s good/evil. Objective morality is something different which wasn’t the subject of my question. You can believe something is good and another evil, and base your morals around a personal opinion, but it doesn’t mean everybody will agree though. So I ask the question again : How can someone believe in morals, but doesn’t have a personal opinion on what’s good/evil ?
I work with people trying to quit drug addiction, many of whom turn to religion. On the surface it makes religion seem good but it becomes a crutch distracting them from the allure of drugs while the cravings are still present.
Very fragile belief. She startled when Richard challenged her about the nonsense of God has biological son!!!! She answered that is my choice??? No logic..would intellectual smart experienced person give such answer??
Because the supernatural doesn’t obey the rules of physics. God is above the rules you have to play by. And if you’re a true atheist, why have morals at all? Why not just eat and do drugs till it’s over! Why not just think of yourself and just have fun at other’s expense? An atheist’s life is one of bitterness! An atheist is typically the most angry and bitter human you will ever meet! And I know one thing, why would anyone ever trust an atheist? They have no true fear of being immoral, so why would you ever trust an open atheist?
Ayan said that modern secular rationalist society is itself a product of Christianity because it appear in the West and not anywhere else, this is itself a false Christian narrative. Most eastern religions including Confucianism in China, Japan are more modern and secular and arose far before western society get out of dark age at the least. In India Hinduism may have many issues today but the core philosophies have many atheistic rationalist secular philosophies, like Buddhism where enlightenment itself means the existence of God is not important at all for humanity. Similarly there are Hindu charvaka philosophy that denies there's any god or afterlife and lay importance on making present life better for everybody. There are a few more Hindu sects which are essentially atheistic, all of them before Christianity ever left Europe. I'm not saying this as a Hindu atheist tired of western narrative of inventing everything by renaming it in English, but as a secular rationalist who genuinely believes that religions has hijacked moral values ingrained in the human psyche, twisting and reselling them to us again... Just like Christianity has stolen pagan culture like Christmas. So people being "cultural Christian" is more like being cultural pagan. Also since Ayaan seems so impressed by Christianity I must throw some more light on its effect in India. India doesn't have any shortage of its own problem from casteism to perpetual poverty, but Christian missionaries (including "Mother" Teresa) taking people money collected for charity and sending it to Vatican all the while torturing sick and helpless to promote suffering - that's what Christianity brings to India. So are bishops sexually assaulting children and nuns and getting away with it with the influence of the pope. Also the few Christian majority states of India are markedly more religious extremists than non-Christian states... So much for Christian secularism. Since Ayaan has become such a proponent for Christianity missionaries over rationality she's also inadvertently responsible for this...
I didn't hear a point. Just obsfucation and avoiding answering the question. To say she "chooses to believe" the resurrection myth is unhelpful when steel-manning a belief in God. It's too subjective and a bit rude to the questioner
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, may God keep you strong in your faith. (2 Corinthians 4:4) The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (1 Corinthians 2:14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. David Jeremiah is an excellent Pastor to listen to and learn your bible in a deeper way. I will be praying for you. You are amazing 🙏🏼🕊️
Oh I see the light alright. It's just a different light. It's the light of science and all the knowledge we have gathered throughout the ages. This light has shown me that God, as depicted in religions, can't exist. I've found scientific proof of this. That is more than even most atheists can say.
How does a sighted person describe color spectrum to a blind person? How can you explain to an atheist the depth of rationality to Christianity? The Holy Spirit must lead the way.
I’m not a Christian, but I understand the teachings of Christianity and I respect it. I see parallels with all religions. I used to be an atheist, and came to my own belief in god after my own “rock bottom”. I do not see atheists as lesser than at all. I see them as brave to be able to venture through life without a torch. I myself, needed that “helping hand” from the Holy Spirit or whatever you want to call it. We need scepticism, and what atheists do is challenge the aspects of religion that have become corrupt. They are very much needed for our soul growth. Jesus never judged anyone. He would break bread with everyone. He described us all as children of god. The kingdom of heaven is not a private club where you need a special membership to get in; it’s there for you, if you need it or not. Just like how a truly loving mother is there for you, only in moments where you truly need her. I needed god, but many others don’t, and I respect them as well.
@@janicedobis6490 I believe children should choose their way - to be or not to be atheists. I never told my kids that god does not exist. I teach them what is right and wrong , good or bad according to common sense and the well-being of society. If you claim that only religion/God can provide morality to society, you are wrong, and here is why - since there are many religions contradicting each other, humanity has come to national legislations, suitable for all citizens . I dont see life in grey or black - imagination and creativity bring colors to our lives
So she chose to believe... belief is not voluntary, unless you're willingly trying to deceive yourself because it feels good and it's comforting. Better to accept a harsh truth than a reassuring tale.
You can choose to believe especially events of the past. I choose to believe dinosaurs existed, I have never examined the evidence myself. If I'm sick I can choose to believe I will get better in spite of the evidence. Etc etc
when you are that depressed and something uplifts you, it can really put rose tinted glasses on you. Many years ago I was on the edge of ending it and while driving, put a drum and bass podcast on which unexpectedly truly did make me turn the car around that day. I have a deep love from drum and bass now and especially that record label that was hosting the podcast. So I sort of understand how the brain connects and bonds with something that saves it and how it is possible to delude yourself to give yourself comfort.
You can choose to believe things by choosing to trust things. I haven't conducted a scientific experiment in defence of the claim that the earth is round, but I choose to believe that the earth is round because I have another type of evidence: the accumulation of dozens of people showing me the experiments that other people have done and taking other people's word for it; I trust them. Similarly, you can choose to believe that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead without having looked through all the archeological evidence that is for and against the event (a lot of that evidence being destroyed). If you trust that the people who wrote the gospels and the epistles aren't lying to you, or if you choose to trust that the prophecies written in the Old Testament (such as Isaiah 53) hundreds of years prior to the life of Jesus are about Jesus, then you can choose to believe that Christ was resurrected from the dead.
But you dont know abut islam. Without lies islam dies. The real islam teaching is in quran. The real islam make muslim being radical. Islam spread by violance and genocide to christian, jews, even pagans since muhammad, islamnlike kilafat. if you are not radical, it means you are not islam radical muslim is a snake, moderate muslim is grass who hide snakes.
@@cathyaldridge4550 The stretch is calling genocide Israel response to Hamas attacks. Shows you were never targeted for elimination for just who you are like what was done to Jews, Armenians, Herero, Tutsi, Amerindians. Show you don’t even know the founding documents of Hamas.
Thank you Ayaan Hirsi Ali - That was by far the best intellectual observation of what is happening to today's "enlightened" humanity. As Jesus said, with heart, soul and mind - thank God they are so blessed with minds that we who suffer with our hearts are speechless when we see what people throw themselves into. God works miracles.
Ayan you've put the conversation back 20 years. You think you say something new. But you just sound like all the other religious people atheists have debated with before.
and where is society now? have we achieved some moral enlightenment? Atheism, to her point, offers no solutions - only a rational critique of religion through the biases of human 'scientific' and hyper-rational understanding.
Aayan has come to truth. Christianity is not completely understandable as much of it is based on "mystery" which is deep divine truth that escapes understanding. God bless you Aayan!
God is not a Trinity for sure as not one of the Jewish prophets in the OT ( and Jesus Christ ( pbuh ) in the NT including ) taught such a contradictory idea that even my 5 year old thought was laughable. The real problem with all Christians is ( as most Christian biblical scholars agree ) is that its primary sources ( both OT and NT ) are not reliable / authentic. Present day Christians are reading ( in any major language ) a translation of a translation ( from Latin ) of a translation (Greek Septuagint ) of a translation ( Aramaic ) the original document of which is absent from the world. We also know that Jesus ( pbuh ) spoke in parables. Imagine trying to understand a parable translated x 4 from its original. Since JC ( in his own words ) was sent for the lost sheep of Israel alone, God even made his mother tongue extinct as his message was limited in time and space. Compare it to Muhammad 's ( pbuh ) message to the whole world ( Brilliant Quran ) original manuscripts of which ( Birmingham and Tubingen manuscripts ) in its original tongue, dating back to the time He lived, can be seen by " people who think " ( a frequent Quranic refrain ).
@@MiladaKaiser Not anymore gods. Her journey has ended with the One True God. ❤ God Loves you Personally ❤️ Give him a chance you will see ❤ God Bless you 🙏
@@paulweikert4285I hope she checks out Hinduism. She can find out 1000s of god in a single religion 😂😂. Then she will come to the understanding that all gods are fake
I don't see why Dawkins's and Ali's perspectives aren't compatible. We keep our scientific/rationality perspective when it comes to addressing factual matters about the world, and we can take the moral/spiritual (call it what-you-will) wisdom from religions and other fictions. The major mistake religions made was their attempt at trying to make people believe their irrational, unscientific claims about reality were literally true as opposed to mythological, symbolic and allegorical. There's a lot of allegorical/symbolic interest in the mythology of Genesis, but anyone who takes it as literally true is a fool. What people need to learn is that just because there's a great deal that's outdated in religions that doesn't mean there isn't also a great deal of value and worth. The problem is that most people aren't intelligent and want to simplify everything to "durrr, either it's literally true and I have to accept it all or it's literally false and I have to reject it all." Once you get past that it's clear the only sensible thing to do is to separate the wheat from the chaff. Ali and Dawkins are essentially the same; both are cultural Christians, it's merely that Ali wants to embrace more of the "Christian" side and Dawkins wants to embrace more of the "culture" side. It's not day and night, and it's day and later that day.
Yet, by endorsing Christianity, a lot of the ignorant parts unfortunately piggyback with the good part and Ali is unable to filter those by promoting the whole package.
@@frankxu4795 The "ignorant parts" can only "piggyback with the good parts" if people let them. That's what the "separating the wheat from the chaff" part of my post addressed. Is Ali "promoting the whole package?" I've yet to hear her comment on, say, any of the laws of the OT.
@@twntwrs First, science and reason have nothing to say about morality. Science can tell you how things are, not how they should be; reason can only insure that your moral systems are consistent, not that they're good. Second, science and reason don't create stories that mimic the patterns and resonate with the experiences of people's lives. People do not live by fact and reason alone, they live by values and metaphors and emotions/feelings and, yes, fictions; "manifold illusions" as Yeats called them, and we can't live without them. Without them all is nihilism.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 Take away all the reasons why something may be good and you would be left with something that may well be pure evil and you won't know it.
This conversation is making me think of Jordan Peterson's discussions about Christianity. I think JP would say that the fact that Christianity provides comfort is significant, real and demonstrates a form of truth.
@@InlaudatusProphetahe won’t believe you unless you convince him. Because believing is not a choice for him. Like the concept of choosing to love is alien to him because you don’t choose to love but you fall in love.
Dawkins: I mock Christianity and that makes it false. Dawkins is the master of ad hominems. His books sound like a person who believes in God and is mad at Him.
Jesus is the highest act of moral ethics ever recorded by human history. Show me a most influential historial Ethic wave. Jesus by his acts rose to the category of God, since common homosapiens are so nasty, egoistic and cowards, that Jesus seems more of an evolution of the Sapiens. Certainly, we could say Jesus was the only true "Human" Ever, all the rest of us? Just mammals with fear to death, envy, and other trash.
@modernjosephus356 Right mockery doesn't prove truth it just shows ignorance. I can easily mock atheist does that mean atheism is false? The evidence of what we believe is the only thing that proves truth🙏
As Ayaan spoke of the vacuum created by the absence of Christian faith on campuses and in our society at large, it brought to mind the vacuum created within a fatherless home. Something else will always fill the empty space and it's rarely something good. When Dawkins admits he never gave thought to what the ramifications of his new atheism teaching might be among young people, my jaw dropped. Really? To what end then, Richard? Ayaan recognizes Christianity as the foundation of American values and western culture. Can our Christian foundation be removed and replaced with rational thought? Who decides what's rational? Who decided what's moral? It's always been hard for me to believe that a person can live as long as Dawkins has lived and not come to acknowledge that there is more to us and to this universe than what we can ever know or what science can ever discover. So, use your imagination Richard! We do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are unseen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18
Its better to live in a world, where most people believe in a God, even if a few of them do horrible things in the name of God, rather than living in a world where everyone KNOWS there is no God, and anyone can do horrible things, without fear of retribution. Atheism has never helped a drug addict or suicidal or homicidal person change their ways. If everyone KNEW there was no God, then everything would be fair game. It was a belief in a God that helped the earliest humans become civilized. Yes, many use religion and God for their own selfish and evil agenda, but most find peace and salvation.
The emergence of religion in human civilization can be traced back to the innate emotion of fear, which humans share with animals, combined with the uniquely human ability to be conscious of and question their environment. Early humans encountered natural phenomena-like storms, eclipses, or diseases-that were inexplicable with their limited understanding. To make sense of these mysteries and cope with the fear they inspired, they attributed them to supernatural forces or beings. Over time, this belief system evolved, and humans developed rules and moral codes based on what they thought would appease these forces, ensuring harmony and avoiding perceived punishments. These rules served as an essential framework for social order, uniting communities under shared beliefs and providing structure to early societies. Thus, religion emerged not only as a response to fear of the unknown but also as a practical tool for fostering cooperation and grounding human behavior in a rapidly evolving world.
All though these rules were beneficial for the collective success of early societies, they eventually became increasingly restrictive. Over time, they began to prioritize the welfare of the group over the well-being of the individual. In many cases, this led to harm or suppression of personal freedoms, as individuals were required to adhere to rigid norms solely for the sake of maintaining collective order. This dynamic underscores how religion, while crucial in fostering early civilization, also created challenges in balancing individual rights with the needs of the broader community.
How could you possibly know that the world is better when the majority believe in god versus a hypothetical atheistic world (which is simply a non-belief in god, of course that wouldn't help with suicide or drug addicts, it's not an ideology)? The only evidence we have to go by is by looking at secular countries. Compared with more religious countries, these countries are consistently safer to live in with better education/healthcare (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Japan, the list goes on). Even if what you're saying were true, it would only be evidence of the fact that humans are easily controlled and manipulated through fear, not in the existence of god or that religion is beneficial. So, you're basically arguing for the perpetuation of fear out of an irrational fear. It's an infantilizing outlook, essentially a belief that humans can't handle the truth, so let's keep feeding them lies in order to preserve world order (or power, if we're being honest).
I live in Sweden. Known to be one of the world's most secular countries. Sweden's society from preschool to top political debates teach and talk about moral all the time. I am sure it is the same with the rest of the secular world. There is no gap in moral teachings and discussions in a secular world. It is the spiritual gap that is more liberal to fill in whatever you like, from birdwatching to catholicism.
I hope that's true. I don't know much about what they teach at school these days. But I do see a lot of evidence of mind virus infections, and "morality" seems to come in the distorted ignorant form of "be kind" (which is ignorant because it's not about critical thinking, it's about letting everyone get whatever they want, not objecting, not offending anyone, and also expecting everyone else to indulge you). It's the woke mind virus. And I work alongside young people just out of school, and I've yet to meet any of them that have the first clue about critical thinking.
Normally not just Richard but people whom i know loves the fruit the Chrtianity and Christians produce but they don't come to the conclusion that it was the seed of the identity and scriptures of God in reality.
Dawkins shows 1)Christianity becomes nobler than Islam because of the contribution and the acceptance of science 2) Political Christians are as deadlier as the Islam… Ayaan shows 1) Religion is a choice of medicine for the problems of civilization (depression) 2) Christianity is a subjective hallucination that can improve the quality of life. Fascinating….
@@kerhabplays never did she utter the word indeed but it seems she has a divine solution for a political problem like hallucination though known as biological abnormality
@@kerhabplays A person made that up. Maybe they had a dream...or maybe they just imagined it. whatever. It was effective propaganda for primitive people....and still is apparently.
If he doesn't believe in God, why does he think he gets to define it for us. Calling it nonsensical? He is full of contradiction. He uses words such as that's evil. He does not believe in God but in evil?
@Benno7844 I know you didn't ask me, but I will give you my reasons for having faith in Jehovah God & his son Jesus. 1) the scriptures have accurate history, as far as we have historically reliable accounts and archeological evidence to verify. 2) all the prophecies which had a specific time to be fulfilled (which is now in the past), has proven to be accurate 100% of the time. 3) I have had personal experiences which are best explained by the Christian/Biblical perspective. 4) same with the many people I know in real life with similar experiences. 5) I could write a whole essay on this, but I'm out of time.
@@Benno7844without a creator we only have materialism. Materialism demands we see ourselves as machines with no control over our actions or path in life. That leaves us as observers into a life we cannot change. We're trapped, cursed to observe our life without ability to intervene. I feel this to be wrong to the very core of my being. I really lack the ability to perceive this to be true, so this, among other reasons, requires I put faith in a higher creative consciousness. Must it be God? I don't know. But I know there's more to me than material. What alternative do you have to offer me?
13 mins - Dawkins says that “Mary had to free of sin” and that is why the conception of Jesus had to be immaculate. Please note that Mary was fully human and was absolutely not without sin.
That's actually even more to the point of religion being man made. Men in this era would believe a superior being would never arrive through female reproductive parts. And as others have pointed out, Jesus is one of several religious figures born of a virgin. This is more evidence of the man made nature of Christianity
Are these things fundamental to Christian or Catholic belief?...I don't think so. To me, one can be a good Christian even without believing in the immaculate conception, virgin birth and even resurrection. The core of Christianity is Jesus and the love and compassion as personified in him.
This is the 1st debate on religion i have ever seen which was full of nothing but respect. Even the way they greeted eachother❤ i loved this, what a great watch.
It will never cease to astonish me how very intelligent people (much more intelligent than I am) can in the stretch of a single sentence utter a blatant contradiction that I can see as clear as water whereas they seem totally unable to even suspect it's there.
And the answer to your wonderment continues to elude you? Perhaps your self appraisal is well founded. We are human. We are not automatons. Bar the human brain that has impairment to its emotional capacity, we are never purely or wholly rational. If we were truly a rational species, there is no need for indoctrination, propaganda, cajoling, national campaigns, civil activism, and the like. There is no need for advertising. Why would grownups not listen to reason, you may wonder? We don't make decisions purely by reason. There are many variables, known and unknown to us, that influence us when we make decisions. There is cognitive bias. There is motivated reasoning. So many. Do you assume that atheists are more rational than theists? It is face-palming to witness people who claim to not believe in God because of the lack of evidence but go on to get hoodwinked by pseudoscience and new age rubbish. It is very common in the UK.
@TheSpoovy When somebody says that religion is nonsense, they are really saying, as Ayan pithily emphasizes, that "there's nothing." That we come from nothing, that the entire universe comes from nothing and, therefore, there's nothing in store for us. That alone is a monumental nonsense. If you add to that that the basis for your conviction is science, you are implying that *nothing can be true unless scientifically proven.* Of course, this statement cannot be true either-unless it's scientifically proven. Henceforth, a long chain of contradictions ensues, one more bizarre than the previous.
When Richard is calling her, a political Christian, he’s just cowardly, avoiding attacking her personally. She herself says it’s not stupid and he should’ve said immediately. No, it is stupid.
Ayan is out of her depth. As a new Christian she shouldn’t be engaging in these discussions because she can’t ground her belief in doctrine. I don’t think she’s even read the bible.
She actually admits that she is young in the faith...let her bear witness...remember the samaritan woman after meeting with Jesus? She could not help but testify of this Man who had told her all she had ever done( immediately) ...Maybe there is an audience God will reach here.
@@jonmartin3220 I’m not saying you need to be an expert in the bible, or even have read the entire thing to be a Christian. But if you are an intellectual engaging in Christian apologetics, that’s literally the bare minimum.
What is she talking about ?? . .. "I choose to believe" ... we dont choose to believe in anything . Belief isnt a choice . We humans are either convinced of something , or we aren't. Thats it .
If you study the matter thoroughly, you do come to the point of knowing that you can neither prove nor disprove Christianity. Not in the most rigorous sense. So, we do, at that level, make a choice regarding what to believe.
Why does scientific evidence = rigor? "Rigor" would imply thoroughly examining all evidences. The scientific method excludes certain evidences because it has no means of evaluating them. I would argue the scientific method is one of the worst methods of examining reality when used alone. A person who employs the scientific method alone, neither examines the inherent presuppositions nor provides scientific evidence for those presuppositions.
When willingly and fullheartly search God with a humbling heart and mind, you will find him, but not through external means but internally, from the heart and mind.
But you can prove that many of the things in the bible are not physically possible. If even part of the bible can be disproven then you have succeeded in disproving the existence of the christian god, as the bible is supposed to be the literal word of god.
I admire Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I'm very glad that her conversion to Christianity has brought her happiness and peace. But some of what she says here makes no sense at all. For example ---- she says that just as we celebrate the separation between Church & State, we should also have a separation between what is scientific and what is spiritual or immaterial. Huh? The reason we have a "separation" between church and state is to protect individual rights and freedom of conscience. What does that have to do with "separating" science and "spirit" -- a conversation that is not about rights, but about the methods we use for understanding reality. It doesn't make an ounce of sense
I think John Lennox is someone you should listen to as he deals with this very issue. Science is a system used to answer questions about the material world. Faith and religion deal with the supernatural. Trying to use science to prove or disprove faith is to try and use it for something it is not designed for. Think about this (adapted from John Lennox), if I bake a cake and place it on a table. Science can answer questions about the molecular nature of the cake, the color, the shape, the taste. But science cannot answer the simple question: why did I bake the cake? The only way to get that answer is to ask the cake maker, ask me. It is the same with trying to use science to answer the purpose of the universe, any attempt at an answer will be completely false.
@@mikeman3770 Thanks for that. But even Richard Dawkins would not dispute the fact that science can't answer all questions. But what's the basis for concluding that there even IS a super natural dimension? In any event, many religious claims ARE claims about the material world. Claiming that a man can be resurrected from the dead, or that the Universe was created Ex Nihlo, or that biological evolution is directed by "intelligence" --- these are claims about the natural world and certainly within the purview of science. Also, in your example of the cake, I'm not sure that's a good analogy. We know the cake was baked by an individual and we could therefore inquire as to his/her "purpose" for baking the cake. (Assuming the baker can know her own motives). On the other hand, we have no reason for assuming the Universe HAS a purpose.
@@mikeman3770 religion as a human endevour is perfectly fine. There is a subjective aspect to being human. The problem arises when religion is considered to give the answers and explnations to natural phenomena. The church did wrong to the likes of Bruno, Galileo and many others by putting itself as the "know all" authority. Picasso or Messi cannot explain natural phenomena, nor can the Bible or the pope. They can give many a personal experience of joy and fulfillment though!
@@a6hiji7 i agree that there have been those that have used religion as a means to subjugate free thought and expression of ideas. Which is actually crazy considering that science was founded under a religious back-drop. I think Newton and the earlier scientist saw that it was never science or religion, but rather that they both are able to coexist when one understands their purpose. Religion, for me, is every bit as viable and necessary as science. Though subjective in nature, there are effects that are objectively seen.
Freddy thank you for bringing this to it. Very refreshing to listen to an intelligent and passionate conversation. You did a superb job of facilitating this. I do agree that we can be spiritual bankrupt, I lean more to eastern experience to follow myself. Both individuals are tempting me to read their books! love those red chairs
Atheism doesn't claim to be a belief system that can replace religious belief. I would include it as one element of Secular Humanism which offers a moral guide to existence without supernatural belief. Ali's inability to cope without religious belief is disappointing.
I totally understand Ayaan. There has to be a good balance of faith and reason. Apply reason to faith such that it doesn’t make you act like a virus but rather use the faith to enhance your inner being and to be a good force for others .
The Lady and her husband make their living by talking, talking and talking. She has choosen a topic that resonates with lots and people and its controversial.... She is not convincing to me at all. Weak arguments
"we are more than material" That's a bold claim, for which there is no evidence, and indeed there can be no evidence. So it's a nonsense. I expect better from someone trying to interact with Dawkins.
In fact you will find many physicists explaining that matter is an illusion and the apparently material world is effectively an illusion. Everything is energy and about energy we still have so much to learn.
The Bible is backed by archeological findings, ancient manuscripts, prophesies that have been fulfilled as well as eye witness testimony. With all that said it’s not hard to believe at all. Atheists have a hard time believing in something that they can’t see or understand but we don’t have to understand something in order to believe it. Everyday we believe in and put our faith in our smartphones. We have faith that they will work and that all our calls and emails will go through successfully. But with that said we do not fully understand all the intricacies on how the phone actually operates. Also we don’t have to see something to believe it exists. We cannot see gravity but we know it exists. I am so glad to see Ayan coming to the knowledge of the truth. Through Gods grace I pray her testimony will draw more people to Christ.
Did she say that the history of western civiliation is mainly Christian!? Does she think, that before we started counting, Europeans was just cave men? I wonder where words like science, democracy and psychology come from.
She means the spiritual philosophy which underlies the development of western civilization. Of course science is part of it but that is not the religion/philosophy.
@yidiandianpang how condescending to suggest that a proposed intellectual like Hirsi Ali does not know "history" from "spiritual philosophy". And also, this tell me that you haven't bothered to research Christian philosophy outside of theology, because then you'd discover that most of it is based on stoicism which is *tadaah* a roman philosophy, which not only was very popular in the early days of the roman empire and became increasingly popular with Marcus Aurelius, but it also has deep roots in *tadaah* the Greek antiquity tradition of thought. The fundament of Christian philosophy is heathen. If not, it would probably never have caught on amongst Romans in the years of Constantine. And the claim that Christian philosophy underlines the development of Western civilization, is just flat out wrong. It has had a great and devastating influence on a Western civilization, which we have tried to come to terms with several times, first during the renaissance (which got It's name from the rebirth of antiquity) and later in the Age of Enlightenment. Both periods were influenced by the rediscovering of ancient Greek and roman philosophy, and modern science, reason, politics, and scepticism have developed IN SPITE of christianities' attempts to undermine these things. We would have been so much more advanced by now if the Romans had not seen a potential political benefit in Christianity in the 300s AD.
Where is the data that backs up this claim that atheism has left a whole generation with a moral vacuum? This debate makes no sense without that claim substantiated properly. Personally, I feel much more fulfilled without the grips of religion on my thoughts. I am able to, without fear, learn and question things that I was too afraid to when I was a Christian.
Questioning biological realities like male and female. Tranxition surgeries. Destranxition surgeries. Happies for Palestine The above are examples of moral confusion that come about on this side of the year 2000, in the years following the success of the new athiest movement and declining religiosity.
She had wrong skewed observation and built false claim on top of it, people in university support Palestinian cause not Hamas, how being Christian would prevent you from supporting Palestinians right to have a state on their land! only thing would make a Christian support Israel is the prophecy of Jesus coming back and that's approve why Dawkins is hell right in refusing her nonsense.
The 'data' of a moral vacuum is provided by the prominent atheists themselves. Dawkins, Krauss, Harris, Shermer, Coyne, Fry etc ALL support Israel even now. Moral depravity.
As a Christian, I was taught to always question everything, including my faith. Not to question is not to care what you believe in. Being afraid to question implies you didn't really understand the moral foundations of Christianity and how the love of the G(o)od based on objetive moral principles cannot lead to a blinkered approach to anything. Subjective moral principles, as I'm sure you are aware, lead to such hells on earth as the cold and calculated destruction of millions upon millions of innocent children's lives. God save us from such fearlessness.
maybe ask how do you even measure the data you are asking for. Who gets to define it? What if their definition does not suit yours? How do you get the data? I am afraid, you experienced false Christianity. Real Christianity is a relationship with God and it is not a religion. Thomas doubted and questioned and Jesus showed him evidence.
I think the world better if following the pure teaching of Christ Himself , which as it is written He summed up as this , to love God with all your heart , mind, soul and strength . And to love your neighbor as yourself
@@NEELZE99 Define common sense. You just assume I'm going to agree with you. Well your athiest common sense and my Christian common sense are not the same thing. So explain to me, how can the average person arrive to your definition of common sense? Aren't athiests supposed to be more logical than Christians? So why are you struggling to define basic words?
@@alisterrebelo9013 If you'll pardon me, I'll define common sense to you. It's the evolved knowledge of experience passed on and accepted as true by humanity as a whole. And if you'll pardon me again, why do you struggle to show any evidence that your god created the universe beyond you read it in a book with a talking donkey in it?
@@TonyEnglandUK I can't answer your question, because a) I haven't made a claim about the existence of God and b) we don't agree epistemologically, on what 'evidence' means and why you arbitrarily insist on defining it in, purely in a materialist scientific sense. "Evolved knowledge of experience passed on an accepted as true by humanity as a whole" Using your definition as quoted, humanity has, as a whole, for the history of humanity considered the existence of God as common sense. This is not my claim, merely an observation based on your definition. My turn, what scientific evidence can bring forth to conclusively prove the existence of a universal logic that you are currently appealing to, as well as is assumed to be true when conducting scientific experiments?
My most ambitious goal came about after believing for 70 years that the universe was created ... to change my system of belief to the scientific theory that in one form or another, the universe and energy always existed ... no creator ... no plan ... and to believe that suffering of all forms of life ... is natural. If people believe they can't be moral unless they have religion in their lives ... that is a sad statement about the mentality of humans in general. It's as though you are saying ... "I can't be moral unless I fear that a god is going to punish me if I'm not moral." I am almost 85 years of age now ... and I believe that if I treat each situation with as much kindness as it deserves ... I can't DO better than my best ... and "let the chips fall where they may."
You now believe that the universe did not begin, but always was? Is there any science pointing to that conclusion rather than it having a beginning? If suffering is natural why seek to remedy it or restrict it? Who decides what is and is not moral? What if I disagree with you? What authority do you have to tell me I'm wrong when we are each equally the creations of a random process of chance in the context of meaningless chaos all around since always? If there is bad and good, then there is God, because God is, by definition, the highest good. If there is no good and no bad, how do you even know what kindness is? How do you make a moral judgement on your conduct? Relative to what?
@@chadhogan4979 There isn't any "remedy" for suffering on planet earth ... and according to those in religions ... suffering in the hereafter continues for wicked, EVIL souls for eternity. As an Atheist, I believe that suffering ends when the bodies die, as it does for all forms of life when their bodies die. Personally ... world over ... each one of us decides what is and what is not moral ... and it's plain that because we are selfish beings ...we all break our own and other people's concepts of moral codes. As an Atheist I don't have any authority to tell you that you are wrong ... I just have the freedom to debate with you that I believe your system of belief is wrong ... from my personal point of view. I suggest that you try leaving your religious cult to join a different religious cult and see how fast you are shunned by the people who now think you are evil and of the devil. Those in religions are not kind, if you try to leave them and their theology behind. They might even kill you ... while reminding you that you should not have insulted "GOD" by leaving HOLY TRUTH for EVIL LIES. When it pertains to the age-old theories of whether the universe was created or whether it always existed ... that can't be known by scientists or by those in religion. All we have is faith in our own theories ... and I went from investing my faith in the theory that a god created the universe ... to the scientific theory that the universe always existed. We can also put our faith in the theory that the universe started with a BIG BANG ... but no matter which theory we choose ... it's all theory and nothing other THAN theory. Thanks for the chance to converse with you, and I wish you the best no matter which theory you choose to believe.
@@junevandermark952 as you said, no one can know for sure if the universe began or has always been, but logically it makes more sense that it had begun. So there is a choice to believe in something greater than yourself, or nothingness. What one do you think is good and which one is evil?? Considering all we have are choices, which one is the path towards the greater good of existence?
She said that since our species hasn’t discovered evidence for where we come from and how there is something rather than nothing and we have yet fully gained a definitive understanding of human consciousness then it is better for us to just place god in the absence of knowledge. In my humble opinion, I think that it would be better for our species, to avoid falling prey to potentially harmful conclusions, to withhold judgment on extraordinary claims until testable, repeatable and demonstrable evidence that can be tested, replicated, and demonstrated by anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Bill Nye, even though I don’t consider him an authoritative expert on this issue, made an excellent point when he said, “I don’t believe in ghosts. However, I would love to see one. Bring it on.”
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1 Corinthians 1:18 in the Bible, wrote and i quote, *“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us(who believes) who are being saved it is the power of God."*
The message of the cross is a cruel distortion of a father-son relationship. God is an abusive parent.
@rogernichols1124
Not if the son, was much as committed and an author of it. Jesus is God, same objective the method does not seem very comfortable to our human mind. But God is the one who death cannot limit.
@@rogernichols1124 What happened to Jesus was an act of justice and mercy for all of humanity. Had it been merely a human doing that to another human it would be different. But it wasn’t. And it couldn’t have been, because a human couldn’t raise another human from the dead. Jesus is alive and His life gives ALL who believe in Him; life. It’s not something that can be understood fully until you accept Him. Once you do and you’re filled with the Holy Spirit, He’ll speak to your heart from within. And all of a sudden all of the things that you didn’t understand before, you will understand. His love will overflow from your heart and you’ll understand why He did what He did. It was for you….
@@rogernichols1124Not when both are eternal - the same in essence and death couldn't hold the Son and the Son returned to the Father.
@@rogernichols1124 Its interesting that you assume you have an intelligence unseen in all of human history.
You can't debate one's testimony. Ayan who had lost hope is now full of hope and life, how do you challenge that. I praise God for setting Ayan free. Hallelujah.
No one is debating her testimony, in the sense in which you've described it.
i’m so tired of how obviously you people are branwashed, i’m not even trying to offend anyone by the way
i hope you praise the same god for not setting million of peoples free. may be he is very picky.
@@abdo.2020-k4ltheir counter argument is that those people haven't truly opened their hearts to god. They haven't looked hard enough. I don't it agree but there it is
@@FranzLiszt-n3k but what type of god is this? a god who give you your brain with enormous capabilties and then wants you to believe in him based on openning your heart - i.e just have faith. And if thats the case, how are we going to know that god? is he a chirstian god, islamic god, budhist god, hindu god, sunni, shia, catholic, protestant..if it just open your heart. And after you figure out all this mess, lets just ask, why in the world is this all hide and seek nonsense in the first place?
Finally, it may there be a god, but atleast he will not be like what these religions/narratives describe.
Im not religious but Ayaan made a lot of sense.
No she didn't. She didn't want to start from scratch. She just made a quick choice, and said now it makes sense because she has a predisposition.
@@ShawnMenchaca like dawkins has one for his reason to actually tell him reasonable outcome.
@@ShawnMenchaca this
I am concerned that this was your take away from her words
I've heard many Christian apologists and modern intellectuals speak about Richard Dawkins, but this was my first time actually listening to him. What struck me is that Dawkins seems to have a deeper understanding of the significance of God than many Christians. He even said it himself-if it were true, it would change everything. (22:30) If more Christians held such a profound view of God, the world would likely be a better place. May the Holy Spirit open Richard Dawkins' mind to the reality of God.
Many do. The problem is evil. You should know this.
The world would be a better place if we can undo all the harm done to us by Heaven. Until then, if that time ever comes, we have been enslaved by heaven. First thing heaven did to us was
=> Deny us the tree of Life
=> Shorten our livespan
=> Afflict us with Territorial disputes
Humans are trapped in a prison the bible tells us was designed by God of Heaven in self defence.
The problem facing us, is that we don't even know where Heaven is, Astrologically. And we don't know what Heaven will do if we Foolishly show up to the gates of heaven unprepared.
Lol, are you trying to say that Christians are the problem in this world? Being a Christian doesn’t mean you will make the world better. If you are a Christian, you know that the Bible says Christians don’t belong to this earth, and according to Jesus, Christians will be hated by the world because of Him. It’s funny how you speak for Christians when you have zero knowledge about Christianity.
And then he said it’s all BS.
If Dawkins has a deeper understanding of God, then why is he still an atheist? And you said if Christians had a better understanding of God like Dawkins, the world would be a better place? You're making it look like the world is a mess because of Christians. Do you know this world belongs to Satan? Do you know Jesus said, 'They will hate you because of me?' Do you know Jesus said those who believe in him don't belong in this world? You are talking about the Bible on your channel, and you don't know all these? And do you know according to the Bible, the world will worsen?
Ayaan received faith by humility. It’s impossible to have faith with a heart of pride and arrogance but rather
by a heart which is
“clothed” with humility: “for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble”.
And all those 'humble' inquisition enablers then? Learn your history!
I went through the same journey like Ayaan, it’s a spiritual rebirth, humbling experience where like God introduced himself to me, just like how israelites saw God’s work by parting the red sea.
Even wounded animals seek out their enemies for help.
This only shows that faith is born from an egocentric will to live.
@@awcuiper1725 currently damned for their sins and blasphemy.
@@awcuiper1725Here we are talking about Christ, though there are many pitfalls with many followers.
I just love how they embrace at the start and finish. Nothing moves me more than two people who still care for each other deeply despite having differing opinions. This is how civil discourse should be done.
So true. Brought me to tears.
Yes ❤
Yeah
Soy
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Am a synthetic biologist created first transgenic mosquito in Africa and yet am deep spiritual Christian who is 100% dedicated my life to jesus. No conflict!
Thanks for sharing. May I ask how your faith informs the mechanics of what you do in the lab?
Physician here trained and practicing in the united states. Highly educated in the maths and sciences and I agree completely. So many athiests are foolish thinking faith in Christ and reason are incompatible or believers must be uneducated idiots.
That's good how can you dedicate your life to Jesus when never had himself a woman
Why do you even do transgenetic biology while Jesus himself is transgenetic. Just study Jesus 😂 in the lab
Been a beat. But I’d studied evolutionary biology, entomology. More details on mosquito’s please? I’m intrigued.
Praise The Lord🙌 May The Lord protect Ayaan and bless her to influence many young people, in the name of The Lord Jesus🙏🙌
The obnoxious clapping when each side thinks their team has scored a point is annoying and a sign of the times. I’d be curious to know how many people in the crowd were actually open to having their mind changed that day or if they were there just to confirm their bias.
You're exactly the same. Don't pretend you aren't 🙄
They also both had hilarious WWE intro music, guess it was just that kind of debate
@@JuntusOrothonjust because you are the same, doesn't mean anyone else is! We're not all sheep!
The sad thing is, Dawkins may have convinced her to leave Christianity in a months time and as she admitted it was the only thing that saved her life, will he, you and the other atheists be happy if she kills herself.
Pathetic
Well that's what happens when raised in a SuperBowl frenzy culture
@@wesleytilley I stand corrected 👍🏼
people in debates like this should be banned from clapping and cheering
That is something called freedom of expression , the only way to express yourself in a very structured debate as audience.
@@tommedia7742I think his point is that these debates aren’t meant to be for entertainment. It’s not a show. I agree that the clapping should be held at the end
@Von.NorthEnd claping on the end for both speakers will never show who get more support from the audience. Even the time of claping to favor one of them, will no prove that person was right or with better arguments.
In your use of the injunction "should" reveals you are an extremist just like all followers of religion!
@@Shaliaj7 The point is that its not important to know who convinced the audience there. The debate is not a democratic process thats decided by the non-random set of people attending.
Thanks so much for organizing this conversation. And also big thanks to the man in the middle. Great questions. Exactly what I needed clarification on.
“Cultural Christianity” is akin to enjoying a slice of cake while refusing to believe in a baker.
A cake will always have a baker, but there are countless religions that lack one. You can appreciate the Mormons' family centric traditions without believing Joseph Smith
The only difference is that we can observe the baker’s contributions first hand. I’d say cultural Christianity is more analogous to enjoying a slice of cake with specific ingredients that you have been raised to be familiar with.
There’s no inherent meaning or purpose behind it, but it is sentimental to you in it’s own way.
@@nutellateen9593 BINGO!
No it isn’t. Accepting and living by the moral code that Christianity teaches and a belief in a god are separate things.
One day it will be time for all of us to meet our baker
She is one of the bravest people I have ever seen. At every step in her life she has stayed true to what she believed despite overwhelming opposition.
She's believed in the Quran, the bible and no god. She isn't staying true to anything
@@cleggyclark6238 Staying true to your conscience is much harder than believing in holy books, even it takes a few turns.
Lovely testimony. I have listened to you as an atheist. Along with Richard and others. I love listening to John Lennox for years...love his humour in debate also. God bless you in your Christian walk now. Pray others will come to Christ .
Is it important to you personally that your beliefs are true?
@@AcidGubbaIt is, and I believe so though we, including the most knowledgeable ones, now know the reality only in part. If we know the infinite God (the Truth) full well, we have become like God
The test of a 'Christian' is not so much a theological or even a Christological assertion that can fit into a neat 'orthodoxy' , but that they can convey , somehow , the living Christ to another person , and this woman does that for me in an extraordinary and real way .
Correct. The cerebral athiest has little capacity for appreciating another way of experiencing world.
You clearly have some portion of conscience telling you how unintelligible and illogical are your assertions about the man god who can be crucified. I am baffled how humans can buy the most illogical thing to 'save himself' even if it's a false salvation.
You're following Paul, not Jesus. Jesus taught that the highest command is Shema, i.e. Oneness of God and Jesus fell on his face to worship the Father in heaven just like Muslims do. Jesus gave the criteria for the true prophet as teachings about the God (Oneness and the Law of God) and he also said the true prophet will recognise Jesus as the Messiah. Now let's examine Paul's teachings. Yes, he claimed Jesus to be the Messiah but Paul out of nowhere claimed that the Law is abolished. Wasn't Jesus circumsized? Wasn't he doing sabbath? Wasn't Jesus avoiding pork? What about Paul? All the opposites!
Now examine Islam. Islam recognises Jesus as the Messiah. Islam confirmed sabbath for the Jews and also introduced light version of prohibitive Laws for the whole mankind.
@@alisterrebelo9013 Perfectly put!
The "test" of a christian is that they believe in christianity and its foundational documents (the bible). Modify that to being a nice person as you seem to, then there is no need or justification for the religion itself.
@@alisterrebelo9013 Typical religious nonsense trying to criticize knowledge and critical thinking.
"Come to me all who are weary and heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am gentle and humble in heart and you shall find rest for your soul."
--Jesus
Matthew 11:28-29
God doesn't exist. The Bible is a lie.
- me
Show me one shred of evidence Jesus ever did anything for anyone.
@@FinsUp22 ALL of "us"! ;)
YOU, show US He hasn't done anything! LOL! (Christianity is the most persecuted Faith in History yet it is here. What Year is it?)
@@FinsUp22 Jesus Lives, I once prayed for God to raise my dead pup, and it didn't happen, that broke my tiny mind. But coming closer to God, He is real, so real that language is difficult to explain Him, a Spiritual God to whom nothing is impossible yet you cannot control and harness. Full of compassion and love and yer justice and truth. We have come a long way to be here.
I’m really encouraged to hear that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has embraced Christianity! She has been such an inspiring speaker for me. I truly believe she came out on top in that debate. My hope is that she is lead by the spirit of the Lord guiding her and to become a powerful voice for our Savior, Jesus Christ.
She is blowing my mind with her eloquent explanations. That alone is beautiful.
She said I made a choice. And that's a choice. Gtfoh 😂
and thus god exist
Ayaan is wrong. You cannot choose what you believe. You are either convinced by the evidence for something or not. The fact that Ayaan is saying she is choosing to believe is a massive red flag that she is willfully trying to train herself to accept something that she does not accept by the evidence alone. She is craving comfort and acceptance, not truth.
I am glad she "feels" happy so as far as that goes, that's fine, many people believe it is better to be wrong but happy rather than face up to what maybe a harsh reality and feel burdened by it. But it is obvious for all to see (unless you are another one of those who have actively trained yourself to believe) her comfort is imagined rather than real and I find that sad.
Love Ayaan’s point of view on how lost our young people are. Rational humanism. It van also be called a moral vacuum. If there is a vacuum in my soul, I can invite God in, or leave it to my own devices, and unwittingly I’m letting the devil in. As Ayaan says, it’s a choice. Yes Ayaan. I am a Christian. I will continue to pray for you, as you rely on your Savour to walk with you on this journey we call life: all the ups and downs and everything in between, and that God will use your talents and giftedness for His honour and glory. Amen.
This isn't a debate about "God".... Or Christianity, or religion really whatsoever
😊
Good to know. Wont be watching it
It was at first but at end of debate it turned israeli lobby propaganda
Are You on the wrong video? You must be!
yeah its hard to reason with someone who has had a trumatic experience and their religion saved them reguardless if the religion is actaully true or not, its true to them. Imo theres was no point in her coming on a pannel with dawkins as it was a personal experience and she litterally says to the audience its all subjective.
im not taking away from her story she deserves a platform just not this one
It seems like to me that she’s more of a “spiritual christian” than a “theological/doctrinal christian”.
No, she is a political/social/psychological Christian. She joined Christianity because of her hour of weakness and because she is afraid of wokeness/Islam/China. It's the same as man joining Christianity on his deathbed.
i felt soo too but her spirituality also comes from recognising the spiritual quality from the moral foundation with which christianity has civilised the west.
to lose this quality would create a spiritual void of the west, thereby causing a rise in Islam which from her experience is quite revolting.
If christianity produces this quality, then Christ who embodies it is who she has decided to look up to, indeed looks like she has found her cross and will follow the Christ.
Yes.
Of course when you first become a Christian it is purely a spiritual experience and then become theological and doctrinal as you mature. She’s accepted God spiritually and she’s been living a life of an atheist, science, and naturalism. Now there’s no doubt that God exist and she will discover God on a personal level and God will guide her in her theology and doctrine.
You mean she has no reason to believe what she believes. She does because it's expedient for her (makes her feel better) or she thinks it's expedient for western civilisation. Whether it is actually true or not doesn't seem to have much interest for her. In my opinion that's a dishonest intelectual stance.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:01 *🌟 Introduction to Speakers and Background*
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's journey from Somalia to the Netherlands and her shift from Islam to atheism and then Christianity,
- Richard Dawkins' prominence as an atheist and his public response to Hirsi Ali's conversion.
03:43 *😔 Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Personal Crisis and Conversion*
- Hirsi Ali's struggle with depression and self-loathing leading to a turning point through prayer,
- Her newfound faith in Christianity and the sense of connection and humility it brought.
06:53 *🤔 The Nature of Belief: Dawkins and Hirsi Ali*
- Dawkins questions the literal belief in Christian doctrines such as the resurrection and virgin birth,
- Hirsi Ali's perspective on faith as a choice and the wisdom she finds in Christianity's teachings.
12:02 *🌍 Christianity, Islam, and Western Civilization*
- Hirsi Ali discusses Christianity's role in countering Islam and supporting Western values,
- The difference between personal belief and societal impact of Christianity.
18:18 *🏛️ The Cultural and Moral Debate*
- The consequences of secularizing society and the vacuum it creates,
- Dawkins and Hirsi Ali explore the coexistence of reason and faith.
29:10 *🎻 The Role of Faith and Reason*
- The discussion on how faith and reason can coexist and complement each other,
- The impact of faith on human connection and civilization, and Dawkins' perspective on atheism's role.
31:17 *🌱 The Nature of Faith and Truth*
- Discussion on the difference between comfort from faith and the truth of existential claims,
- The debate on whether the comforting aspects of religion make its existential claims true.
33:46 *💭 Life After Death and Cultural Christianity*
- Exploration of beliefs about life after death and the concept of a soul,
- Dawkins' stance as a cultural Christian and the discussion on the utility of religion in society.
37:26 *⚖️ Islam, Christianity, and Societal Influence*
- Hirsi Ali and Dawkins discuss the societal impact of Christianity and Islam,
- Concerns about the influence of Islam in Western societies and the perceived decline of Christian influence.
42:08 *📜 Enlightenment and Secular Humanism*
- Debate on the origins of secular humanism and its relationship with Christianity,
- Discussion on the moral framework provided by religions versus secular humanism.
50:15 *🔍 Comparing Holy Books and Moral Teachings*
- Comparison of the teachings of the Bible and the Quran, especially concerning morality,
- Discussion on the unique characteristics of Jesus and Muhammad in their respective religions.
56:48 *🚨 Concerns About Radical Islam and Wokeism*
- Shared concerns about the spread of radical Islamist ideologies in the West,
- Discussion on the impact of these ideologies on university campuses and the response to global events.
01:00:22 *🌐 Clash of Civilizations*
- Discussion on the idea of a clash of civilizations and the lack of a counter-message from secular or atheist humanism,
- Concerns about the denial of cultural conflict and the rise of Islamist ideologies in Western societies.
01:02:47 *🛑 Muslim Rebellion and Reform*
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's outreach to Muslims and ex-Muslims, encouraging awareness of the dangers of Islamist ideologies,
- Emphasis on the need to oppose totalitarian ideologies that exploit freedoms to promote their agendas.
01:05:19 *🚨 Warning Against Islamist Threats*
- Ali's warnings about the potential consequences of Islamist ideologies gaining power, referencing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas,
- A call to recognize and combat these threats to prevent the spread of barbaric practices.
01:06:21 *💉 Vaccination Metaphor for Ideological Combat*
- Dawkins' metaphor of combating harmful ideologies with a "mild form of the virus" versus advocating for rationality and enlightenment,
- The conversation concludes with this analogy, highlighting different approaches to addressing ideological threats.
Made with HARPA AI
My take is Aayan has realised that not everybody is intelligent enough to live as an Atheist. And she is offering Christianity as an alternative. .
😂
Hahaha 🤣🤣
That is the only alternative is christ and that alone
I can see how it could lead to depression and despair if a religion was your identity growing up and then suddenly you threw it all away without having something equivalent to take its place. That’s losing a big part of yourself.
I think it was much later when the depression came, not when she i initially lost her Muslim faith.
I’m a former atheist that was raised secular without basically any religious background. I firmly believe that everyone has a God-sized emptiness inside their hearts that only He can fill. We don’t always tune into this - we’re busy with our everyday lives! But if you ever take a moment to really think about it, I think you will find the longing.
I think that it specifically was while she was an atheist.
@@mrscharmless
How can you claim everyone
has a God sized emptiness
when no one knows the size
of any of the Gods.
@@FoursWithin God is eternal.
It’s not a debate just a conversation.
What's the difference?
Wow what a woman with such brilliance and humility!! Great debate!
She was ignorant.
No you are @@ShawnMenchaca
@@ShawnMenchaca not ignorant. She's a liar and stupid
At the root of every atheist argument, is the pure anger that they dont get to go to a heaven that they dont believe in. They deeply want to go to heaven but cant understand why they cant get there. Christians (and other religions) want to help people get there. Atheist want to help people get out of a heaven they dont believe in.
If all other religions claim that theirs are the truth and the others are false then there are more chances for everyone to not go to heaven than going to heaven
My favorite two human beings on stage. Wow. As an atheist, I have a hard time agreeing with Ayaan but I do see her point.
You have to play the game and if it is a game of emotions, your rationality just does not cut it.
We are just a little minority with our materialist rational world view. They are huge!
Ayaan deserves to be heard. She is a remarkable human being.
Materialism is Jay and Gooish
ruclips.net/video/nfNG0y-O6Qc/видео.html
Well said & totally agree!
If you cannot beat the Nazis become one? No, she does not deserve to be heard.
As Ayaan Hirsi Ali says, she is a new Christian. She has a lot still to learn. Christianity is about more than feelings. Believing in Jesus in not a blind leap of faith. Christianity is rooted in history unlike other religions. Read "Evidence that demands a verdict," "The Case for Christ," "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis, and The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? by FF Bruce, among many other books written by Christian scientists, journalists, archaeologists, some of whom were once skeptics.
How filled with 'humility' is Ayaan, & how blessed with 'Godly Grace'....this is where 'finding the Truth of God' begins !. Clearly the requirements to understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ! No pride , no arrogance! Give Ayann a 'medal for bravery'!
If Dawkins is 'unaware' that society has been 'declining morally' over the past few decades, he really is 'blind' in his own beliefs!.
Bingo
Anyone who thinks Christianity 's central message is love isn't aware of the history of Christianity which is soaked in blood as are all abrahamic religions. And the success of the western world is built upon the exploitation and conquer and torture done by white people over others fully enabled by their faith
She is very confused.
confused
"Morality declining over the past few decades " is because of propaganda. It's about money. Religion does that too. Mlns of money rotate in hagj or church, yet there are mlns of ppl homeless, starving. The stick has two ends
Some lessons from Quran
Don't lie (22:30)
Dont spy (49:12)
Don't insult (49:11)
Don't waste (17:26)
Feed the poor (22:36)
Don't backbite (49:12
Keep your oaths (5:89)
Don't take bribes (27:36)
Honour your treaties (9:4)
Restrain your anger (3:134)
Don't spread gossip (24:15)
Think good of others (24:12)
Be good to guests (51:24-27)
Don't harm believers (33:58)
Don't be rude to parents
(17:23)
Turn away from ill speech
(23:3)
Don't make fun of others
(49:11)
Walk in a humble manner
(25:63)
Respond to evil with good
(41:34)
Keep your trusts & promises
(23:8)
Don't insult others' false
gods (6:108)
Don't ask unnecessary
questions (5:101)
Don't call others with bad
names (49:11)
Don't claim yourselves to be
pure (53:32)
Speak nicely, even to the
ignorant (25:63)
Don't ask for repayment for
favours (76:9)
If enemy wants peace, ther
accept it (8:61)
Return a greeting in a better
manner (4:86)
Don't remind others of your
favours (2:264)
Make peace between
fighting groups (49:9)
Lower your voice and talk
moderately (31:19)
Don't ask too many favours
from people (2:273)
Speak gently, even to leaders
of disbelief (20:44)
Don't criticize small
contributions of others (9:79)
Try to make peace between
husband & wife (4:128)
Oppression/corruption is
worse than killing (2:217)
Preach to others in a good
and wise manner (16:125)
Don't accuse others of
immorality without proof (24:4)
Don't call someone
disbeliever without knowing
(4.94)
Know your enemies can
become your close friends
(41:34)
Don't wrongly consume the
wealth of the vulnerable (4:29)
Forgive others, as you woulc
like Allah to forgive you (24:22)
If unable to help a needy
person, at least speak nice
words (17:28)
Verify information from a
dubious source before acting
upon it (49:6)
Those who can should
continue to spend on those
less fortunate (24:22)
Don't sit with those who
mock religion until they change
the subject (4:140)
The worldly life is nothing
but an illusionary enjoyment
(3:185)
Everything sensible in Islam was taken from Judaism and Christianity. That is an historical fact. And these bits of coopted wisdom do not compensate for the violence, fear and contradictions inherent in Islam.
What about homosexuals?
How about : don't try to kill someone because of a book they wrote?
Garbage
Oh is it... Please go and debate ChristianPrince live on youtube... He is spanking allah and his prop mohamad live on youtube using and showing their own Koran and Hadiths... It's actually fun to watch.
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14
Thanks Freddy.
What a respectful & pleasant discussion between 2 great thinkers with such opposing views.
I wouldn't be surprised one day Richard Dawkins can become a Christian. It would shock the whole world.
A.man of his age who cusses out, that says a lot about his beliefs. How does anyone even listens to him. On the contrary this well educated woman, so humble yet articulate, non confrontational, it is amazing.
The natural man does not understand the things of the spirit of God, neither can he understand them because they're spiritually discerned.
She chose to believe in a higher being based on a feeling of comfort that saved her from depression. It would have been convincing if she chose to believe it based on demonstrable evidence. I haven't seen her demonstrate at all the existence of such being. It should have been the best time to show it in front of everyone.
There's a story in the Bible about a man who had died and was speaking to I think it was Moses and he said; let me go back to my brothers and warn them about the judgment to come in the life hereafter. The prophet said to him; they have the testimony of the prophets and they do not believe. They won't believe a man returned from the dead. We atheists always say we want more evidence. God says he's given us more than enough evidence and we reject him. That's a choice we make every day. The wrath of God abides on you right now. Read the testimony. Start with the book of John, then read the other three gospels. After that, read the New testament.
@@disgusted3191 I would like proof that the bible is true. Your response: Read the bible. Great job! /s
As a meditator I can say Dawkin made more sense to me. I can totally understand what Aayan went through but she filled that hole with something ‘comforting’. But in reality she just fell into another hole, giving up on self belief and seeking refuge in something external, that’s the false path to spiritual growth and freedom, the trap we all fall into, clinging to our own beliefs and concepts.
Dawkin believes the world came from nothing and offered nothing in his presentation. In his attempt to offer “something” he run to one the emanated from Christianity which Ayaan clearly exposed him. His obsession with the word “nonsense” is the take away from this. Atheists offer nothing, including “sense”
It was a nice and polite discussion, and Dawkins was a gentleman. However, he knows that the moral equivalence he grants between Islam and Christianity is not true. He rationalizes his position by saying that the only thing significantly different between the two is that Christians don’t take Christianity seriously. The two religions differ greatly at their points of origin and have produced far different fruit because of their differences. He knows this.
The way she's saying she chooses to belive the further-fetched rational points of christianity, rather than saying they are a baseline truth for everyone on Earth is a slight tell. I speculate that since it picked her up out of deep depression, her brain has bonded with the connecton and is using it as a comforting factor in healing. Many people will find something that rips them away from dark depression and swear by it, be it cycling, running, writing.. all sorts of things and they truly make a huge bond with it, but religion has some much lore/backstory that comes with it, the brain probably sees it with rose tinted glasses after having a personal epiphany, even if it's true or not. I'm just glad she's out of her depression. :)
Q
Very true
This!!...
It's conceited for humans to believe our views of life are the pinnacle of understanding. We may simply not have the capability to understand it completely. A seagull will see a nuclear power station and happily build a nest there. But it will never have the capacity to appreciate what's going on around it.
@@TonyEnglandUK Precisely. That's the atheist position. That's the basis of science. You may have meant it that way, but those words often point to a "so there's something greater than us ... therefore God".
Ayyan,
What a soul-filling testimony. Thank you. God bless you. Fr noel
It seems like he is saying to her "I can't believe you believe this. I don't get how someone I respect so much can change their mind" it is beautiful. As a Christian I fail to see God in front of me and treat God like a tv show or chore. There is a real struggle here and it is what I take for granted sometimes.
' I choose to believe...' What the hell does that even mean?!?!
Your reason can only take you so far. There are things which are unknowable and unprovable but which we must consider in our lives.
The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven, you cannot be genuinely sure, so it is up to you whether you believe or do not believe. Belief, and faith, are each a choice that you are able to make. You can consciously choose or reject it. Doubt does not contradict faith. It really boils down to what kind of life and what kind of existence you want.
That truth is irrelevant for her.
@@chadhogan4979 Since christianity is based on the bible, and many things in the bible are not physically possible, doesn't that call into question the whole thing?
This is what a person says when they simply don't want to keep asking important questions because it really is tiring and often overwhelming.
It's a I'm gonna take a break position. Take a break from intense scrutinizing of beliefs, hopes, and big ideas.
And maybe they'll resume the questions later in life or maybe never at all again.
@@chadhogan4979Some of us don't have that level of control over our minds. I'm incapable of just choosing to believe something. Either I believe it (which for me is the same as knowing it), or I don't, OR I don't know for sure. With Christianity, I don't know if it's true, but I doubt it for several reasons. Therefore, I'm unable to convince or tell my brain to ignore my lack of knowledge and the presence of doubts, and just choose to believe it.
This was more of an emotional monologue than debate.
Emotional from Dawkins?
atheist abdoooools do not debate. They're like muslim abdooools lie all the time. It's not possible to debate a liar. And taqqyya is an intergal part of pdf file atheist religion as it is in islame. Actually, there's no obvious difference between atheist religion and islame. Mupedohammad or mao. No difference.
@@Shaliaj7 I was surprised that Dawkins put up with monologue! Christians seems to do the same thing under nonsensical discourse: evangelize. This is what Ayaan did. Wasted my time.
@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasntquick question, how does one can believe in morals but not in good/evil ? Isn’t morality defined by what’s good and bad ?
@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasnt but we’re talking about personal morals and their relation to what’s good/evil. Objective morality is something different which wasn’t the subject of my question. You can believe something is good and another evil, and base your morals around a personal opinion, but it doesn’t mean everybody will agree though.
So I ask the question again : How can someone believe in morals, but doesn’t have a personal opinion on what’s good/evil ?
I wonder if Ayaan Hirsi Ali has heard about what happens to houses that are built on a foundation of sand...
Of course.
Hers was.
You mean materialism?
@@cvrki7 of course.
I work with people trying to quit drug addiction, many of whom turn to religion. On the surface it makes religion seem good but it becomes a crutch distracting them from the allure of drugs while the cravings are still present.
Very fragile belief. She startled when Richard challenged her about the nonsense of God has biological son!!!! She answered that is my choice??? No logic..would intellectual smart experienced person give such answer??
Logic Is of course very valuable. It is, however, not always the correct tool.
She did answer it. You either didn't understand her answer or didn't pay attention to it
Because the supernatural doesn’t obey the rules of physics. God is above the rules you have to play by. And if you’re a true atheist, why have morals at all? Why not just eat and do drugs till it’s over! Why not just think of yourself and just have fun at other’s expense? An atheist’s life is one of bitterness! An atheist is typically the most angry and bitter human you will ever meet! And I know one thing, why would anyone ever trust an atheist? They have no true fear of being immoral, so why would you ever trust an open atheist?
Ayan said that modern secular rationalist society is itself a product of Christianity because it appear in the West and not anywhere else, this is itself a false Christian narrative.
Most eastern religions including Confucianism in China, Japan are more modern and secular and arose far before western society get out of dark age at the least.
In India Hinduism may have many issues today but the core philosophies have many atheistic rationalist secular philosophies, like Buddhism where enlightenment itself means the existence of God is not important at all for humanity.
Similarly there are Hindu charvaka philosophy that denies there's any god or afterlife and lay importance on making present life better for everybody.
There are a few more Hindu sects which are essentially atheistic, all of them before Christianity ever left Europe.
I'm not saying this as a Hindu atheist tired of western narrative of inventing everything by renaming it in English, but as a secular rationalist who genuinely believes that religions has hijacked moral values ingrained in the human psyche, twisting and reselling them to us again...
Just like Christianity has stolen pagan culture like Christmas. So people being "cultural Christian" is more like being cultural pagan.
Also since Ayaan seems so impressed by Christianity I must throw some more light on its effect in India. India doesn't have any shortage of its own problem from casteism to perpetual poverty, but Christian missionaries (including "Mother" Teresa) taking people money collected for charity and sending it to Vatican all the while torturing sick and helpless to promote suffering - that's what Christianity brings to India.
So are bishops sexually assaulting children and nuns and getting away with it with the influence of the pope.
Also the few Christian majority states of India are markedly more religious extremists than non-Christian states... So much for Christian secularism.
Since Ayaan has become such a proponent for Christianity missionaries over rationality she's also inadvertently responsible for this...
I agree, Dawkins is being nice to her, Ayaan has fallen from pedestal since she believes hers only hers is the truth.
@@VikramKumar-oy8gqwhere did she say that? Your being arrogant and didn’t get the point
Confucianism is not a religion. Get your shit together or you will get Sharia Law, than your gonna get stoned or worse if unlucky
I didn't hear a point. Just obsfucation and avoiding answering the question. To say she "chooses to believe" the resurrection myth is unhelpful when steel-manning a belief in God.
It's too subjective and a bit rude to the questioner
Well said. High time Ayaan is shown the mirror abt Christianity in poorer countries. Her white man version of Christianity aint fooling no one
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, may God keep you strong in your faith. (2 Corinthians 4:4) The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (1 Corinthians 2:14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. David Jeremiah is an excellent Pastor to listen to and learn your bible in a deeper way. I will be praying for you. You are amazing 🙏🏼🕊️
Oh I see the light alright. It's just a different light. It's the light of science and all the knowledge we have gathered throughout the ages.
This light has shown me that God, as depicted in religions, can't exist. I've found scientific proof of this. That is more than even most atheists can say.
Should God keep me strong in my faith if I believe he's a figment of human imagination?
Perhaps we should stop calling Christianity a religion but a personal belief or spiritual relationship with God the Creator.
That’s still a religion per the definition.
How does a sighted person describe color spectrum to a blind person? How can you explain to an atheist the depth of rationality to Christianity? The Holy Spirit must lead the way.
It's vice versa. You get blind when you are told what to believe in.
You believe stuff you were indoctrinated to believe, it truly is a disease when you cant question your own beliefs :) atheism wins!
I’m not a Christian, but I understand the teachings of Christianity and I respect it. I see parallels with all religions. I used to be an atheist, and came to my own belief in god after my own “rock bottom”.
I do not see atheists as lesser than at all. I see them as brave to be able to venture through life without a torch. I myself, needed that “helping hand” from the Holy Spirit or whatever you want to call it. We need scepticism, and what atheists do is challenge the aspects of religion that have become corrupt. They are very much needed for our soul growth.
Jesus never judged anyone. He would break bread with everyone. He described us all as children of god. The kingdom of heaven is not a private club where you need a special membership to get in; it’s there for you, if you need it or not. Just like how a truly loving mother is there for you, only in moments where you truly need her. I needed god, but many others don’t, and I respect them as well.
@@user-victoriouscenturion I would that be true for the child raised to be an atheist?
@@janicedobis6490 I believe children should choose their way - to be or not to be atheists. I never told my kids that god does not exist. I teach them what is right and wrong , good or bad according to common sense and the well-being of society. If you claim that only religion/God can provide morality to society, you are wrong, and here is why - since there are many religions contradicting each other, humanity has come to national legislations, suitable for all citizens . I dont see life in grey or black - imagination and creativity bring colors to our lives
So she chose to believe... belief is not voluntary, unless you're willingly trying to deceive yourself because it feels good and it's comforting.
Better to accept a harsh truth than a reassuring tale.
Beautifuly said
Jesus Is the TRUTH
You can choose to believe especially events of the past. I choose to believe dinosaurs existed, I have never examined the evidence myself. If I'm sick I can choose to believe I will get better in spite of the evidence. Etc etc
when you are that depressed and something uplifts you, it can really put rose tinted glasses on you. Many years ago I was on the edge of ending it and while driving, put a drum and bass podcast on which unexpectedly truly did make me turn the car around that day. I have a deep love from drum and bass now and especially that record label that was hosting the podcast. So I sort of understand how the brain connects and bonds with something that saves it and how it is possible to delude yourself to give yourself comfort.
You can choose to believe things by choosing to trust things. I haven't conducted a scientific experiment in defence of the claim that the earth is round, but I choose to believe that the earth is round because I have another type of evidence: the accumulation of dozens of people showing me the experiments that other people have done and taking other people's word for it; I trust them. Similarly, you can choose to believe that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead without having looked through all the archeological evidence that is for and against the event (a lot of that evidence being destroyed). If you trust that the people who wrote the gospels and the epistles aren't lying to you, or if you choose to trust that the prophecies written in the Old Testament (such as Isaiah 53) hundreds of years prior to the life of Jesus are about Jesus, then you can choose to believe that Christ was resurrected from the dead.
Being anti genocide, Ayaan, does not mean you're pro Islam. What a stretch that is.
But you dont know abut islam. Without lies islam dies. The real islam teaching is in quran. The real islam make muslim being radical. Islam spread by violance and genocide to christian, jews, even pagans since muhammad, islamnlike kilafat. if you are not radical, it means you are not islam radical muslim is a snake, moderate muslim is grass who hide snakes.
Indeed, nor does it mean that you're an antisemite.
@@lettersquashnor does it mean you're islamophobic
Abortion is also not allowed in Islam. It’s strictly prohibited 🚫
@@cathyaldridge4550 The stretch is calling genocide Israel response to Hamas attacks. Shows you were never targeted for elimination for just who you are like what was done to Jews, Armenians, Herero, Tutsi, Amerindians. Show you don’t even know the founding documents of Hamas.
Thank you Ayaan Hirsi Ali - That was by far the best intellectual observation of what is happening to today's "enlightened" humanity. As Jesus said, with heart, soul and mind - thank God they are so blessed with minds that we who suffer with our hearts are speechless when we see what people throw themselves into. God works miracles.
Ayan you've put the conversation back 20 years. You think you say something new. But you just sound like all the other religious people atheists have debated with before.
and where is society now? have we achieved some moral enlightenment? Atheism, to her point, offers no solutions - only a rational critique of religion through the biases of human 'scientific' and hyper-rational understanding.
Aayan has come to truth. Christianity is not completely understandable as much of it is based on "mystery" which is deep divine truth that escapes understanding. God bless you Aayan!
She went through 2 gods which people created. She still has several thousands to go. From Amon and Aton to Zeus.
God is not a Trinity for sure as not one of the Jewish prophets in the OT ( and Jesus Christ ( pbuh ) in the NT including ) taught such a contradictory idea that even my 5 year old thought was laughable. The real problem with all Christians is ( as most Christian biblical scholars agree ) is that its primary sources ( both OT and NT ) are not reliable / authentic. Present day Christians are reading ( in any major language ) a translation of a translation ( from Latin ) of a translation (Greek Septuagint ) of a translation ( Aramaic ) the original document of which is absent from the world. We also know that Jesus ( pbuh ) spoke in parables. Imagine trying to understand a parable translated x 4 from its original. Since JC ( in his own words ) was sent for the lost sheep of Israel alone, God even made his mother tongue extinct as his message was limited in time and space. Compare it to Muhammad 's ( pbuh ) message to the whole world ( Brilliant Quran ) original manuscripts of which ( Birmingham and Tubingen manuscripts ) in its original tongue, dating back to the time He lived, can be seen by " people who think " ( a frequent Quranic refrain ).
@@MiladaKaiser Not anymore gods. Her journey has ended with the One True God. ❤ God Loves you Personally ❤️ Give him a chance you will see ❤ God Bless you 🙏
@ellenadams7354 how are you sure? I'm a bit overwhelmed with the options.
@@paulweikert4285I hope she checks out Hinduism. She can find out 1000s of god in a single religion 😂😂. Then she will come to the understanding that all gods are fake
I don't see why Dawkins's and Ali's perspectives aren't compatible. We keep our scientific/rationality perspective when it comes to addressing factual matters about the world, and we can take the moral/spiritual (call it what-you-will) wisdom from religions and other fictions. The major mistake religions made was their attempt at trying to make people believe their irrational, unscientific claims about reality were literally true as opposed to mythological, symbolic and allegorical. There's a lot of allegorical/symbolic interest in the mythology of Genesis, but anyone who takes it as literally true is a fool.
What people need to learn is that just because there's a great deal that's outdated in religions that doesn't mean there isn't also a great deal of value and worth. The problem is that most people aren't intelligent and want to simplify everything to "durrr, either it's literally true and I have to accept it all or it's literally false and I have to reject it all." Once you get past that it's clear the only sensible thing to do is to separate the wheat from the chaff. Ali and Dawkins are essentially the same; both are cultural Christians, it's merely that Ali wants to embrace more of the "Christian" side and Dawkins wants to embrace more of the "culture" side. It's not day and night, and it's day and later that day.
Yet, by endorsing Christianity, a lot of the ignorant parts unfortunately piggyback with the good part and Ali is unable to filter those by promoting the whole package.
What is there of "value and worth" in religion that cannot be gained from reason and the scientific method?
@@frankxu4795 The "ignorant parts" can only "piggyback with the good parts" if people let them. That's what the "separating the wheat from the chaff" part of my post addressed. Is Ali "promoting the whole package?" I've yet to hear her comment on, say, any of the laws of the OT.
@@twntwrs First, science and reason have nothing to say about morality. Science can tell you how things are, not how they should be; reason can only insure that your moral systems are consistent, not that they're good.
Second, science and reason don't create stories that mimic the patterns and resonate with the experiences of people's lives. People do not live by fact and reason alone, they live by values and metaphors and emotions/feelings and, yes, fictions; "manifold illusions" as Yeats called them, and we can't live without them. Without them all is nihilism.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 Take away all the reasons why something may be good and you would be left with something that may well be pure evil and you won't know it.
This conversation is making me think of Jordan Peterson's discussions about Christianity. I think JP would say that the fact that Christianity provides comfort is significant, real and demonstrates a form of truth.
She said choose to belive. Nobody choose to believe. People gets convinced . To believe is not a choose
Believing in something can be a choice bro what are you even talking about
@@InlaudatusProphetahe won’t believe you unless you convince him. Because believing is not a choice for him. Like the concept of choosing to love is alien to him because you don’t choose to love but you fall in love.
@@HikeySus nicely described 👌
So to disbelieve is also not a choice?
@@matthewmorrison9255yes
This was an awesome conversation between 2 friends. I wish we could get more of these types of debates
@@thomaswashington2127 Check out Alex O’Connor for more content like this.
As always:
Dawkins: This is superstitious
Religious person: I am emotional and I like it
Aethism is the most emotional when it comes to evidence of their supposed claims
Thesis: Empiricism
Antithesis: Spirit
Synthesis: 2 spheres of existence to 1 underlying reality.
Dawkins: I mock Christianity and that makes it false.
Dawkins is the master of ad hominems. His books sound like a person who believes in God and is mad at Him.
Jesus is the highest act of moral ethics ever recorded by human history. Show me a most influential historial Ethic wave. Jesus by his acts rose to the category of God, since common homosapiens are so nasty, egoistic and cowards, that Jesus seems more of an evolution of the Sapiens. Certainly, we could say Jesus was the only true "Human" Ever, all the rest of us? Just mammals with fear to death, envy, and other trash.
@modernjosephus356 Right mockery doesn't prove truth it just shows ignorance.
I can easily mock atheist does that mean atheism is false?
The evidence of what we believe is the only thing that proves truth🙏
As Ayaan spoke of the vacuum created by the absence of Christian faith on campuses and in our society at large, it brought to mind the vacuum created within a fatherless home. Something else will always fill the empty space and it's rarely something good. When Dawkins admits he never gave thought to what the ramifications of his new atheism teaching might be among young people, my jaw dropped. Really? To what end then, Richard? Ayaan recognizes Christianity as the foundation of American values and western culture. Can our Christian foundation be removed and replaced with rational thought? Who decides what's rational? Who decided what's moral?
It's always been hard for me to believe that a person can live as long as Dawkins has lived and not come to acknowledge that there is more to us and to this universe than what we can ever know or what science can ever discover. So, use your imagination Richard!
We do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are unseen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18
Life is scary so praying gives you comfort. ignorance is bliss.
What gives comfort is God’s love. Praying is a miracle in itself that we have a creator who hears us.
Its better to live in a world, where most people believe in a God, even if a few of them do horrible things in the name of God, rather than living in a world where everyone KNOWS there is no God, and anyone can do horrible things, without fear of retribution. Atheism has never helped a drug addict or suicidal or homicidal person change their ways. If everyone KNEW there was no God, then everything would be fair game. It was a belief in a God that helped the earliest humans become civilized. Yes, many use religion and God for their own selfish and evil agenda, but most find peace and salvation.
Well said.
The emergence of religion in human civilization can be traced back to the innate emotion of fear, which humans share with animals, combined with the uniquely human ability to be conscious of and question their environment. Early humans encountered natural phenomena-like storms, eclipses, or diseases-that were inexplicable with their limited understanding. To make sense of these mysteries and cope with the fear they inspired, they attributed them to supernatural forces or beings. Over time, this belief system evolved, and humans developed rules and moral codes based on what they thought would appease these forces, ensuring harmony and avoiding perceived punishments. These rules served as an essential framework for social order, uniting communities under shared beliefs and providing structure to early societies. Thus, religion emerged not only as a response to fear of the unknown but also as a practical tool for fostering cooperation and grounding human behavior in a rapidly evolving world.
All though these rules were beneficial for the collective success of early societies, they eventually became increasingly restrictive. Over time, they began to prioritize the welfare of the group over the well-being of the individual. In many cases, this led to harm or suppression of personal freedoms, as individuals were required to adhere to rigid norms solely for the sake of maintaining collective order. This dynamic underscores how religion, while crucial in fostering early civilization, also created challenges in balancing individual rights with the needs of the broader community.
How could you possibly know that the world is better when the majority believe in god versus a hypothetical atheistic world (which is simply a non-belief in god, of course that wouldn't help with suicide or drug addicts, it's not an ideology)? The only evidence we have to go by is by looking at secular countries. Compared with more religious countries, these countries are consistently safer to live in with better education/healthcare (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Japan, the list goes on).
Even if what you're saying were true, it would only be evidence of the fact that humans are easily controlled and manipulated through fear, not in the existence of god or that religion is beneficial. So, you're basically arguing for the perpetuation of fear out of an irrational fear. It's an infantilizing outlook, essentially a belief that humans can't handle the truth, so let's keep feeding them lies in order to preserve world order (or power, if we're being honest).
I live in Sweden. Known to be one of the world's most secular countries. Sweden's society from preschool to top political debates teach and talk about moral all the time. I am sure it is the same with the rest of the secular world. There is no gap in moral teachings and discussions in a secular world.
It is the spiritual gap that is more liberal to fill in whatever you like, from birdwatching to catholicism.
I hope that's true. I don't know much about what they teach at school these days. But I do see a lot of evidence of mind virus infections, and "morality" seems to come in the distorted ignorant form of "be kind" (which is ignorant because it's not about critical thinking, it's about letting everyone get whatever they want, not objecting, not offending anyone, and also expecting everyone else to indulge you). It's the woke mind virus. And I work alongside young people just out of school, and I've yet to meet any of them that have the first clue about critical thinking.
Normally not just Richard but people whom i know loves the fruit the Chrtianity and Christians produce but they don't come to the conclusion that it was the seed of the identity and scriptures of God in reality.
Dawkins shows 1)Christianity becomes nobler than Islam because of the contribution and the acceptance of science
2) Political Christians are as deadlier as the Islam…
Ayaan shows
1) Religion is a choice of medicine for the problems of civilization (depression)
2) Christianity is a subjective hallucination that can improve the quality of life.
Fascinating….
Never heard her say it's a "Hallucination"
@@kerhabplays never did she utter the word indeed but it seems she has a divine solution for a political problem like hallucination though known as biological abnormality
I cant think of much more depressing than Christianity being real.
@@LusciousTwinkle ofc you should be. Scared of hell fire?
@@kerhabplays A person made that up. Maybe they had a dream...or maybe they just imagined it. whatever. It was effective propaganda for primitive people....and still is apparently.
If he doesn't believe in God, why does he think he gets to define it for us. Calling it nonsensical? He is full of contradiction.
He uses words such as that's evil. He does not believe in God but in evil?
May I ask why you believe in God?
Understanding Dawkins requires free will… understanding Ayaan requires evil of intelligence
@@ranomukherjee2630 word salad much?
@Benno7844
I know you didn't ask me, but I will give you my reasons for having faith in Jehovah God & his son Jesus.
1) the scriptures have accurate history, as far as we have historically reliable accounts and archeological evidence to verify.
2) all the prophecies which had a specific time to be fulfilled (which is now in the past), has proven to be accurate 100% of the time.
3) I have had personal experiences which are best explained by the Christian/Biblical perspective.
4) same with the many people I know in real life with similar experiences.
5) I could write a whole essay on this, but I'm out of time.
@@Benno7844without a creator we only have materialism. Materialism demands we see ourselves as machines with no control over our actions or path in life. That leaves us as observers into a life we cannot change. We're trapped, cursed to observe our life without ability to intervene. I feel this to be wrong to the very core of my being. I really lack the ability to perceive this to be true, so this, among other reasons, requires I put faith in a higher creative consciousness. Must it be God? I don't know. But I know there's more to me than material. What alternative do you have to offer me?
Love and respect Ayaan, please stay safe, please stay strong.
"Faith offers you something but it doesn't make it true" I agree with Richard Dawkins
Are you sure
13 mins - Dawkins says that “Mary had to free of sin” and that is why the conception of Jesus had to be immaculate. Please note that Mary was fully human and was absolutely not without sin.
That's actually even more to the point of religion being man made. Men in this era would believe a superior being would never arrive through female reproductive parts. And as others have pointed out, Jesus is one of several religious figures born of a virgin. This is more evidence of the man made nature of Christianity
It’s a Catholic doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin and was free from personal sin
@@AChickandaDuckYeah the Immaculate conception was of Mary not of Jesus. Mary was conceived without son right from the get go, that’s the idea.
Are these things fundamental to Christian or Catholic belief?...I don't think so.
To me, one can be a good Christian even without believing in the immaculate conception, virgin birth and even resurrection. The core of Christianity is Jesus and the love and compassion as personified in him.
@@georgekuttygeorge8247 then you are just a good person not a faithfully adhering catholic.
This is the 1st debate on religion i have ever seen which was full of nothing but respect.
Even the way they greeted eachother❤ i loved this, what a great watch.
This lady was once an atheist, being a new convert, she understands how their thoughts work.
It will never cease to astonish me how very intelligent people (much more intelligent than I am) can in the stretch of a single sentence utter a blatant contradiction that I can see as clear as water whereas they seem totally unable to even suspect it's there.
And the answer to your wonderment continues to elude you? Perhaps your self appraisal is well founded.
We are human. We are not automatons. Bar the human brain that has impairment to its emotional capacity, we are never purely or wholly rational.
If we were truly a rational species, there is no need for indoctrination, propaganda, cajoling, national campaigns, civil activism, and the like. There is no need for advertising.
Why would grownups not listen to reason, you may wonder?
We don't make decisions purely by reason. There are many variables, known and unknown to us, that influence us when we make decisions. There is cognitive bias. There is motivated reasoning. So many.
Do you assume that atheists are more rational than theists? It is face-palming to witness people who claim to not believe in God because of the lack of evidence but go on to get hoodwinked by pseudoscience and new age rubbish. It is very common in the UK.
0uu88888hgg😊
0:24
Example?
@TheSpoovy When somebody says that religion is nonsense, they are really saying, as Ayan pithily emphasizes, that "there's nothing." That we come from nothing, that the entire universe comes from nothing and, therefore, there's nothing in store for us. That alone is a monumental nonsense. If you add to that that the basis for your conviction is science, you are implying that *nothing can be true unless scientifically proven.* Of course, this statement cannot be true either-unless it's scientifically proven. Henceforth, a long chain of contradictions ensues, one more bizarre than the previous.
When Richard is calling her, a political Christian, he’s just cowardly, avoiding attacking her personally. She herself says it’s not stupid and he should’ve said immediately. No, it is stupid.
Ayan is out of her depth. As a new Christian she shouldn’t be engaging in these discussions because she can’t ground her belief in doctrine. I don’t think she’s even read the bible.
She actually admits that she is young in the faith...let her bear witness...remember the samaritan woman after meeting with Jesus? She could not help but testify of this Man who had told her all she had ever done( immediately) ...Maybe there is an audience God will reach here.
@@jonmartin3220 I’m not saying you need to be an expert in the bible, or even have read the entire thing to be a Christian. But if you are an intellectual engaging in Christian apologetics, that’s literally the bare minimum.
Dawkins is so right when he said Christianity has moved from total blind faith which Islam is not able to do!!
Because Muslims don't have blind faith..... It is purely rational sensible and experienced.....
@@muneebahmadmohsin-jj8bg how hijab is rational?? How women forced to stay un educated is rational?? These kind of things changed in Christianity
@@NageswaraRaoPerivelago educate yourself first and not what your godi media and whatsapp university taught you ✌️❤️
@@NageswaraRaoPerivelaits unnatural for your society my friend...not for Muslims
How is he right?
What is she talking about ?? . .. "I choose to believe" ... we dont choose to believe in anything . Belief isnt a choice . We humans are either convinced of something , or we aren't. Thats it .
He believes that all religions are false. He is acting on his beliefs and not on facts.
If you study the matter thoroughly, you do come to the point of knowing that you can neither prove nor disprove Christianity. Not in the most rigorous sense. So, we do, at that level, make a choice regarding what to believe.
Why does scientific evidence = rigor? "Rigor" would imply thoroughly examining all evidences. The scientific method excludes certain evidences because it has no means of evaluating them.
I would argue the scientific method is one of the worst methods of examining reality when used alone. A person who employs the scientific method alone, neither examines the inherent presuppositions nor provides scientific evidence for those presuppositions.
We can disprove that the bible isn't the product of either omniscience &/or omnibenevolence, likewise the earth wasn't created in 6 days & so forth.
You can neither prove nor disprove the iliads, rig vedas, book of the dead...heck you can neither prove or disprove harry potter either.
When willingly and fullheartly search God with a humbling heart and mind, you will find him, but not through external means but internally, from the heart and mind.
But you can prove that many of the things in the bible are not physically possible. If even part of the bible can be disproven then you have succeeded in disproving the existence of the christian god, as the bible is supposed to be the literal word of god.
I admire Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I'm very glad that her conversion to Christianity has brought her happiness and peace. But some of what she says here makes no sense at all. For example ---- she says that just as we celebrate the separation between Church & State, we should also have a separation between what is scientific and what is spiritual or immaterial. Huh?
The reason we have a "separation" between church and state is to protect individual rights and freedom of conscience. What does that have to do with "separating" science and "spirit" -- a conversation that is not about rights, but about the methods we use for understanding reality. It doesn't make an ounce of sense
She means you can be spiritual and do science without conflict
I think John Lennox is someone you should listen to as he deals with this very issue. Science is a system used to answer questions about the material world. Faith and religion deal with the supernatural. Trying to use science to prove or disprove faith is to try and use it for something it is not designed for.
Think about this (adapted from John Lennox), if I bake a cake and place it on a table. Science can answer questions about the molecular nature of the cake, the color, the shape, the taste. But science cannot answer the simple question: why did I bake the cake? The only way to get that answer is to ask the cake maker, ask me. It is the same with trying to use science to answer the purpose of the universe, any attempt at an answer will be completely false.
@@mikeman3770 Thanks for that. But even Richard Dawkins would not dispute the fact that science can't answer all questions. But what's the basis for concluding that there even IS a super natural dimension?
In any event, many religious claims ARE claims about the material world. Claiming that a man can be resurrected from the dead, or that the Universe was created Ex Nihlo, or that biological evolution is directed by "intelligence" --- these are claims about the natural world and certainly within the purview of science.
Also, in your example of the cake, I'm not sure that's a good analogy. We know the cake was baked by an individual and we could therefore inquire as to his/her "purpose" for baking the cake. (Assuming the baker can know her own motives). On the other hand, we have no reason for assuming the Universe HAS a purpose.
@@mikeman3770 religion as a human endevour is perfectly fine. There is a subjective aspect to being human. The problem arises when religion is considered to give the answers and explnations to natural phenomena. The church did wrong to the likes of Bruno, Galileo and many others by putting itself as the "know all" authority. Picasso or Messi cannot explain natural phenomena, nor can the Bible or the pope. They can give many a personal experience of joy and fulfillment though!
@@a6hiji7 i agree that there have been those that have used religion as a means to subjugate free thought and expression of ideas. Which is actually crazy considering that science was founded under a religious back-drop. I think Newton and the earlier scientist saw that it was never science or religion, but rather that they both are able to coexist when one understands their purpose. Religion, for me, is every bit as viable and necessary as science. Though subjective in nature, there are effects that are objectively seen.
Freddy thank you for bringing this to it. Very refreshing to listen to an intelligent and passionate conversation. You did a superb job of facilitating this. I do agree that we can be spiritual bankrupt, I lean more to eastern experience to follow myself. Both individuals are tempting me to read their books! love those red chairs
Atheism doesn't claim to be a belief system that can replace religious belief. I would include it as one element of Secular Humanism which offers a moral guide to existence without supernatural belief. Ali's inability to cope without religious belief is disappointing.
I totally understand Ayaan. There has to be a good balance of faith and reason. Apply reason to faith such that it doesn’t make you act like a virus but rather use the faith to enhance your inner being and to be a good force for others .
ruclips.net/user/liveFWpqqqZn7Kg?si=sFQlm1SiIRNl8DwP
Faith in god and reason are not compatible.
That's makes absolutely no sense.
The Lady and her husband make their living by talking, talking and talking. She has choosen a topic that resonates with lots and people and its controversial.... She is not convincing to me at all. Weak arguments
Her husband has worked to open the Uni of Austen, Texas.
Yes, ‘weak’ was the word i thought of during the whole conversation.
A person who's definition of evidence is defined in a materialist, scientific sense, will view anything outside that definition as "weak".
And what have achieved in life ? You sound like bitter jealous human .
Her “talk “has empowered millions and what have you done to compare ?
:) This lady is more of anti Islam than is faithful about christianity.
Fantastic moderation of the discussion, wow
There is still hope for Dawkins may he find God very soon!
Can someone please timestamp when the debate begins.
Unfortunately, it never does. I'm off to watch some classic Hitchslaps.
If you are a genuine Christian rejoice because the kingdom of God belongs to you
Who certifies the "genuineness"?
Blablabla
"we are more than material"
That's a bold claim, for which there is no evidence, and indeed there can be no evidence.
So it's a nonsense.
I expect better from someone trying to interact with Dawkins.
In fact you will find many physicists explaining that matter is an illusion and the apparently material world is effectively an illusion. Everything is energy and about energy we still have so much to learn.
@@chelseapoet3664life is in consciousness, that thing scientists know nothing about
You do not believe “we are more than material”? Your thoughts? Emotions? Those are material? Surely you can’t believe we understand everything?
The Bible is backed by archeological findings, ancient manuscripts, prophesies that have been fulfilled as well as eye witness testimony. With all that said it’s not hard to believe at all. Atheists have a hard time believing in something that they can’t see or understand but we don’t have to understand something in order to believe it. Everyday we believe in and put our faith in our smartphones. We have faith that they will work and that all our calls and emails will go through successfully. But with that said we do not fully understand all the intricacies on how the phone actually operates. Also we don’t have to see something to believe it exists. We cannot see gravity but we know it exists. I am so glad to see Ayan coming to the knowledge of the truth. Through Gods grace I pray her testimony will draw more people to Christ.
Did she say that the history of western civiliation is mainly Christian!? Does she think, that before we started counting, Europeans was just cave men? I wonder where words like science, democracy and psychology come from.
She means the spiritual philosophy which underlies the development of western civilization. Of course science is part of it but that is not the religion/philosophy.
@yidiandianpang how condescending to suggest that a proposed intellectual like Hirsi Ali does not know "history" from "spiritual philosophy". And also, this tell me that you haven't bothered to research Christian philosophy outside of theology, because then you'd discover that most of it is based on stoicism which is *tadaah* a roman philosophy, which not only was very popular in the early days of the roman empire and became increasingly popular with Marcus Aurelius, but it also has deep roots in *tadaah* the Greek antiquity tradition of thought. The fundament of Christian philosophy is heathen. If not, it would probably never have caught on amongst Romans in the years of Constantine.
And the claim that Christian philosophy underlines the development of Western civilization, is just flat out wrong. It has had a great and devastating influence on a Western civilization, which we have tried to come to terms with several times, first during the renaissance (which got It's name from the rebirth of antiquity) and later in the Age of Enlightenment. Both periods were influenced by the rediscovering of ancient Greek and roman philosophy, and modern science, reason, politics, and scepticism have developed IN SPITE of christianities' attempts to undermine these things. We would have been so much more advanced by now if the Romans had not seen a potential political benefit in Christianity in the 300s AD.
@@Signebperry And may Constantine be tortured in hell for all eternity.
Fantastic to see a good old debate with 2 sensible people
Where is the data that backs up this claim that atheism has left a whole generation with a moral vacuum? This debate makes no sense without that claim substantiated properly.
Personally, I feel much more fulfilled without the grips of religion on my thoughts. I am able to, without fear, learn and question things that I was too afraid to when I was a Christian.
Questioning biological realities like male and female.
Tranxition surgeries.
Destranxition surgeries.
Happies for Palestine
The above are examples of moral confusion that come about on this side of the year 2000, in the years following the success of the new athiest movement and declining religiosity.
She had wrong skewed observation and built false claim on top of it, people in university support Palestinian cause not Hamas, how being Christian would prevent you from supporting Palestinians right to have a state on their land! only thing would make a Christian support Israel is the prophecy of Jesus coming back and that's approve why Dawkins is hell right in refusing her nonsense.
The 'data' of a moral vacuum is provided by the prominent atheists themselves. Dawkins, Krauss, Harris, Shermer, Coyne, Fry etc ALL support Israel even now. Moral depravity.
As a Christian, I was taught to always question everything, including my faith. Not to question is not to care what you believe in. Being afraid to question implies you didn't really understand the moral foundations of Christianity and how the love of the G(o)od based on objetive moral principles cannot lead to a blinkered approach to anything. Subjective moral principles, as I'm sure you are aware, lead to such hells on earth as the cold and calculated destruction of millions upon millions of innocent children's lives. God save us from such fearlessness.
maybe ask how do you even measure the data you are asking for. Who gets to define it? What if their definition does not suit yours? How do you get the data?
I am afraid, you experienced false Christianity. Real Christianity is a relationship with God and it is not a religion. Thomas doubted and questioned and Jesus showed him evidence.
I think the world better if following the pure teaching of Christ Himself , which as it is written He summed up as this , to love God with all your heart , mind, soul and strength . And to love your neighbor as yourself
Personal stories vs logic, evidence
Glad you mentioned logic.
What is the scientific evidence that conclusively proves a) logic exists and b) logic is true?
@@alisterrebelo9013common sense. But y'all just ranting about definitions.
@@NEELZE99 Define common sense. You just assume I'm going to agree with you. Well your athiest common sense and my Christian common sense are not the same thing.
So explain to me, how can the average person arrive to your definition of common sense?
Aren't athiests supposed to be more logical than Christians? So why are you struggling to define basic words?
@@alisterrebelo9013 If you'll pardon me, I'll define common sense to you. It's the evolved knowledge of experience passed on and accepted as true by humanity as a whole. And if you'll pardon me again, why do you struggle to show any evidence that your god created the universe beyond you read it in a book with a talking donkey in it?
@@TonyEnglandUK I can't answer your question, because a) I haven't made a claim about the existence of God and b) we don't agree epistemologically, on what 'evidence' means and why you arbitrarily insist on defining it in, purely in a materialist scientific sense.
"Evolved knowledge of experience passed on an accepted as true by humanity as a whole"
Using your definition as quoted, humanity has, as a whole, for the history of humanity considered the existence of God as common sense. This is not my claim, merely an observation based on your definition.
My turn, what scientific evidence can bring forth to conclusively prove the existence of a universal logic that you are currently appealing to, as well as is assumed to be true when conducting scientific experiments?
Ayaan, you are so brave as a new Christian taking such ridicule.
👏👏👏👏👏
My most ambitious goal came about after believing for 70 years that the universe was created ... to change my system of belief to the scientific theory that in one form or another, the universe and energy always existed ... no creator ... no plan ... and to believe that suffering of all forms of life ... is natural.
If people believe they can't be moral unless they have religion in their lives ... that is a sad statement about the mentality of humans in general. It's as though you are saying ... "I can't be moral unless I fear that a god is going to punish me if I'm not moral."
I am almost 85 years of age now ... and I believe that if I treat each situation with as much kindness as it deserves ... I can't DO better than my best ... and "let the chips fall where they may."
You now believe that the universe did not begin, but always was? Is there any science pointing to that conclusion rather than it having a beginning?
If suffering is natural why seek to remedy it or restrict it? Who decides what is and is not moral? What if I disagree with you? What authority do you have to tell me I'm wrong when we are each equally the creations of a random process of chance in the context of meaningless chaos all around since always?
If there is bad and good, then there is God, because God is, by definition, the highest good.
If there is no good and no bad, how do you even know what kindness is? How do you make a moral judgement on your conduct? Relative to what?
@@chadhogan4979 There isn't any "remedy" for suffering on planet earth ... and according to those in religions ... suffering in the hereafter continues for wicked, EVIL souls for eternity.
As an Atheist, I believe that suffering ends when the bodies die, as it does for all forms of life when their bodies die.
Personally ... world over ... each one of us decides what is and what is not moral ... and it's plain that because we are selfish beings ...we all break our own and other people's concepts of moral codes.
As an Atheist I don't have any authority to tell you that you are wrong ... I just have the freedom to debate with you that I believe your system of belief is wrong ... from my personal point of view.
I suggest that you try leaving your religious cult to join a different religious cult and see how fast you are shunned by the people who now think you are evil and of the devil. Those in religions are not kind, if you try to leave them and their theology behind. They might even kill you ... while reminding you that you should not have insulted "GOD" by leaving HOLY TRUTH for EVIL LIES.
When it pertains to the age-old theories of whether the universe was created or whether it always existed ... that can't be known by scientists or by those in religion. All we have is faith in our own theories ... and I went from investing my faith in the theory that a god created the universe ... to the scientific theory that the universe always existed.
We can also put our faith in the theory that the universe started with a BIG BANG ... but no matter which theory we choose ... it's all theory and nothing other THAN theory.
Thanks for the chance to converse with you, and I wish you the best no matter which theory you choose to believe.
@James-872 Thank you. Your support is much appreciated.
@@chadhogan4979 perfectly said!
@@junevandermark952 as you said, no one can know for sure if the universe began or has always been, but logically it makes more sense that it had begun.
So there is a choice to believe in something greater than yourself, or nothingness. What one do you think is good and which one is evil?? Considering all we have are choices, which one is the path towards the greater good of existence?
The Abrahamic faiths are NOT the same in the fundamental sense. For an intelligent man, I wish he would know this.
I choose to believe in Zeus. Therefore Zeus exists.
Yah, it is her rationality, but she believes in emotional things
“I choose to believe there is no God, therefore God does not exist.”
@@DanielTravieso-d3i you say that but you don’t really believe it. I dare you to say a truth claim that you really believe in and provide proof
Kudos Ayaan, Jesus Christ will protect you, Amen
I prophesy this Mr Richard will accept Christ Jesus before he leaves this world. I just love him.
I prophesy this Hirshi Ali will accept Reality () before she enters The Kingdom of God. I lover her. (and him too. And Him too).
So been deluded
I wish I could pin this nonsense
She said that since our species hasn’t discovered evidence for where we come from and how there is something rather than nothing and we have yet fully gained a definitive understanding of human consciousness then it is better for us to just place god in the absence of knowledge. In my humble opinion, I think that it would be better for our species, to avoid falling prey to potentially harmful conclusions, to withhold judgment on extraordinary claims until testable, repeatable and demonstrable evidence that can be tested, replicated, and demonstrated by anyone, anywhere and at anytime.
Bill Nye, even though I don’t consider him an authoritative expert on this issue, made an excellent point when he said, “I don’t believe in ghosts. However, I would love to see one. Bring it on.”