What does Progressive Christianity have in common with other religions? with David Wolcott
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2024
- David Wolcott joins the podcast to talk about his deep dive into the world of progressive Christianity. He shares some interesting insights into what progressive Christians believe, and how those beliefs differ from historical Christian creeds. He also takes a look at some progressive creeds and discusses why progressive Christians deny the historical and biblical foundation of Christianity yet still call themselves “Christians.”
www.thedavidwolcott.com/blog/...
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I left a progressive church before “progressive Christianity” was a term to describe it. The main reason for my departure was they started using half texts to twist scripture’s meanings, but they elevated love for neighbors above the first greatest commandment to love the Lord. Great podcast, Alisa, thank you, sister 🙏
When you love your neighbour you are loving the Lord because the Lord is I AM!! ( exodus 3.14).. you first must love yourself ( I AM) then you can love your neighbour ( I AM).. there is only 1 I AM.. there is only God , one power, one source!!
No , I regard myself as a so-called " progressive Christian" , but not in the way Alisa Childers and her guest in the above video caricature those who have that perspective . I and virtually all the other so-called progressives that I know prioritize that first and greatest commandment ; to love God with all one's heart . Childers ignorantly always generalizes when defining progressives , often grievously misrepresenting their actual beliefs and theology . Irresponsible .
@@colinpurssey9875, who do you think accurately represents Progressive Christianity? Apparently, the 60 some authors and influencers I've already worked through all aren't fair examples of Progressive Christians, so please share some good examples.
@@thedavidwolcott I replied to your question yesterday and I did so in a respectful sense . This morning I discovered that my reply had been removed . As I said , I had expressed my reply in a civil tone , yet it seems whomsoever was responsible for that deletion won't even allow tempered criticism of Childer's views . So now I'm thinking that to reiterate my reply would be futile . They'll erase it again . Pretty cowardly and partisan .
@@colinpurssey9875, I don't know what happened to your comment; I know I didn't touch it.
If you want, feel free to message or comment on my Facebook page (same logo), which is my messaging preference anyway. If I'm misrepresenting something, I want to know.
Great discussion. I remember someone interviewing the author behind one faith no longer and also went over some of the things listed in that book. I've started to say I'm a historic Christian because at this point we are dealing with two different religions.
It really is two different religions.
That's good
Other than warning people about false teachers, my next big peeve is "why do they call themselves Christian?" Obviously, Christianity has enough dignity and good reputation that they see that it will benefit them to "claim" Christianity. But they are not. Thank you SO much for doing this interview, Alisa.
Very informative, thanks to you both. When the video started I am thinking "what have I got into"? Alisa, I was not disappointed. Love your channel.
I completely agree with what you said around the 16-minute mark about Progressive Christians thinking that they are the true church and have redeemed the faith. Yikes.
"Go away I never knew you" takes on a whole new meaning. Good interview ❤
He says that to those who are under the law. They didn't realize their works of righteousness weren't good enough
@@dansaber4427 what about didn't we prophecy in your name and cast out demons? You don't find people under the law doing that today
@@dansaber4427really now? Because in the passage it shows Jesus separates the sheep and the goats based on what they did and didn’t do.
@@jadedrac0the sheep and the goats are your thoughts which you tend in the garden of your mind! That’s what sowing and reaping means! The sheep and the goats is a parable also of thoughts, truth and error! Jesus is the power in you to judge these thoughts through truth! He is separating these thoughts not people saying that you thought these were truth but he did not know these lies in you! There’s no fear! It’s YOU
@@terrypaul7706 thoughts huh ? James 2 14-17 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith obut does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 pIf a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 qand one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good2 is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
This was an excellent episode! I watched twice and learned so much.
Thank you both! Incredibly educational!
Great definitions. I really like David's, but the simplified other one is a great simplification.
These issues are still largely ignored so thanks for driving the discussion and getting people talking about what is really happening in the lives of many who are struggling with their Christian faith. John's second letter addresses a lot of these issues, deceptive teaching against the truth (reality) of Jesus and how he describes what love and obedience look like.
Super interesting. Thank you!
I was in Bill Gothards basic youth conflicts seminar back in May of 1973. Portland Oregon. I asked Jesus to be my Saviour at this time. Thanks for the information on his ministry.
I was first introduced to Ian Morgan Crohn in 2013 at the national worship leader conference and I had been a believer about 6 years, and I remember him holding up a Bible and saying we needed to stop “worshipping the Bible” and it sent alarm bells off, like “what in the world?” And not agreeing with his talk, but couldn’t understand why, partly because I was still a pretty baby Christian. Well. Now I know because I’ve grown and he’s become more blatantly heretical😳
I interact online with faithful LDS and one of their most common remarks is that "you born-agains worship the Bible instead of God". Sad to see Prog. Christians using the same tactic.
@@karenl7791Mormons seem to worshop Joseph Smith more than Jesus. I know, I used to be moromon.
@@karenl7791LDS is a satanic cult
I love David!! He is the only reason I miss being on Facebook. This was such a fantastic episode, I need to listen to it a few more times because there was so much to take in!
Aww... thank you! And feel free to join the free library on my website, if you want a kind of non-Facebook social media connection with me and my community. :-)
@@thedavidwolcott Sweet! Thanks!!
@@shannonlunser1372, you're welcome!
Interesting conversation.
A lucid and very helpful discussion. I know the Bible well; but from this discussion I have gleaned several things that will help me in my quite frequent conversations with folk who say they are Christians - (and I tend to assume that they are, even if I have profound points of disagreement with them) - but who are deeply affected by the presuppositions of progressive Christianity. Thank you.
This was an amazing conversation!
It sounds like David could talk so much more about this topic, so please have him back soon!
Also would love to hear the peanut with the hat story :)
Excellent discussion. Thank you. I'll just point out that John 8.32 is often quoted out of context, as if it were saying "If" you know the truth, "then" you will be set free. The condition for being set free is not knowing simply the truth (or a truth, or confessing a truth). The condition is in verse 31. "If" you obey my teachings, then three things will be the result: A: you will be my disciples, B: You will know the truth, and C: that truth will set you free.
Where this "if" clause is on another level misunderstood, is that some groups construe it as "if you follow these rules that I lay down", whereas actually Jesus is talking about a whole body of teaching that includes recognition of the Messiah, the need to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again, understanding that God is good to all, the explanations of reasons why we don't have to worry, etc. etc.
In particular, it was the Pharisees who were rejecting Jesus' teaching while claiming to hold to Moses, whereas Jesus was saying that not only did Moses' teaching point to Jesus, but that Jesus, as the Messiah, was an even greater representative of God and God's word than what Moses was, one regarding whom God would hold everyone accountable for heeding what Jesus spoke, as an even greater responsibility than the responsibility to take Moses seriously. By taking Jesus seriously we will become his disciples, knowing the truth (knowing what is firm, unshakeable and reliable to the end), and be freed in that security. It is more important to be a disciple of Jesus than it was to be a disciple of Moses. Jesus is the most reliable representative of God, and the embodiment of (the message) what God wants all to know about His nature and how He relates to creation (in purposes, love, sacrifices, patience, promises, etc.)
Very interesting thanks yall
Thanks for having this conversation, I kept wondering why they call themselves Christians?
Thank you both
Very informative.
Jordan Peterson interview with bishop Barron goes into some of this this was a good interview Alisa
Why would an atheist go to a Christian church except to start trouble?
They more than likely go because progressive churches value democratic political policies over the truth of the Bible. So they can go to church without experiencing actual Christian truth, but appear virtuous in their eyes.
yep!!
I know one who comes to our congregation to be with his Christian wife and because he was not pushing their sons to be atheists. In fact, they both became Christians. He never caused any trouble.
Love the content!! Still having bleeding ears from the transitions 🔊💥🥲 Please fix asap 🙏❤
Oh good, it's not just me 😅
When we said why does anyone call themselves a Christian. Christianity is not a religion it's a relationship. The Gospel is not good advice but good news. God has reconciled us back to God not imputing our sins. ❤
Christianity is a religion by definition. Progressive Christianity is what started that Christianity is not a religion. Jesus called Christianity a religion.
It is a religion, but a religion where the practicing of said religion leads to freedom I stead of just 'more religion.' 😉
Ok, naturalism isn't a philosophy, it's a relationship with nature.
@@FireflowerDancer “a religion that doesn’t lead to more religion”, what?
@@krakoosh1new wave...in other words, not a Christian.
I went to theological college with a progressive Christian who said he was happy to say the Creeds, but he interpreted the words how he wanted and not how others would.
That sounds fair.
YEP!! They always do!! My best friend and his sons are unfortunately like this and they are leading themselves to doom,no matter how much I try to warn them,they get mad at me.
Excellent!!! Definitely they are another group not related to the teachings of the Bible and the core beliefs there expressed. We proclaim Christ and him resurrected, our God and Savior.
Jesus help me put you first
Beautiful!! 😻
@Mark Sanlin (1:00:17) - when asked what is the gospel? “love other people no matter what and let your actions show it”. He wrongly highlights the human interaction command above the love God command. Without the true greatest commandment, it’s not possible to accomplish this second greatest commandment. Matthew 22 is where Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6 to emphasize the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and might. I don’t know much about Adam Clarke, but he said it well about the greatest commandment, in his commentary on the Bible “…by this alone God reigns in the heart of humans, and humans are united to God”.
Their answer also was no gospel at all - no good news being proclaimed, just commands to obey (law). They don’t even know what “gospel” means on its face.
Very interesting discussion. I had not paid much attention to progressive Christianity. They are way out there!
Well be careful. This channel tends to misrepresent people's positions.
@@pavld335 I always try to be careful and do the research. I can see scripture is clearly against the progressive portion. The world hates the Truth.
@@pavld335, what do you think I misrepresented?
Question! If you’re hiring a pastoral position in a church, how do you test/ check for progressive beliefs in a potential hire??
Listen to sermons they have preached
It seems to me that the clarifications contributed by David Woolcott are valuable and should be made generally available to Christians. Because the "anything goes" attitude of the 1960's and 1970's is, astonishingly, still with us and much more of that style has been added. With probing, many of the alterations and additions turn out to be distortions and their sources may not be what we assumed. No wonder we're confused.
EXCELLENT discussion!
There are 4 scriptures I'm aware of that warn against adding to or taking away from God's Word:
Dt. 4:2;
12:32;
Prv.30:6
Rev. 22:19
God obviously does not take this matter lightly !
& add to that His warnings about leading others astray...
These people seem to view the Bible as a "Chinese menu"-- 1 from column A,
1 from column B...
Shame on them for playing God and subscribing to the 'traditions of men!'
I truly see the term "progressive Christianity" as a euphemism for
COMPROMISED CHRISTIANITY-- to the point where it is no longer true Christianity.
One of the main issues with the Holy Post is the influence of Kaitlyn Schiess who is a rising star but is clearly progressive. The other issue is that the Holy Post has positioned itself and the critic of conservatism Christianity from the "inside". But it has become increasingly difficult to see them on the inside of conservative Christianity because they rarely if ever criticize progressives. There is also a level of arrogance and snobbery at the Holy Post that they don't recognize, they hide it behind humor.
I see this sneaking in all over the place. The idea of speaking to an issue, God is in everything, and such things, even in a very conservative church i see it.
Does this woman ever have a guest in that challenges her or just people who pat each other on the back?
I don't think that's the point.
@@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh It’s my point and my opinion. I think people are cowards if they only come on RUclips and are afraid to be challenged.
@@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh Not only that, but she does her vewiers an injustice by not providing opposing views. Or does she think she has it all figured out? It’s real easy to fall into the trap of self righteous hubris.
@@user-fc2zb9po8tWhether it’s your opinion, doesn’t change the fact that it’s not the point of this show. There are shows that have the kind of format you are looking for. Not knocking you for wanting that kind of a show; it’s just that not every show has to have that format, just like not every show has to have the format displayed here.
@@stephenmac191 I agree it’s her channel and she can do what she wants. All I’m saying is people cannot learn and grow without opposing views. It’s like watching CNN all day without getting the other side for contrast. So the hope in me pointing this out is to at least give an example as to why you cannot form an honest opinion with this format. It’s merely one woman with an opinion. No one ever challenges her and her not allowing such challenges is very telling imo
Athanasian creed anyone? Perfect to read on Trinity Sunday 😁
Great interview and good question, why do progressive christians use the word christian. My question, why don't historical christians come up with a more accurate term for the progressives.
I don't think we should ever call them Christians.
Look into the Orthodox Christian Church. Its Tradition contains the Creeds, the Old and New Testaments, the lives and teachings of all the saints who ever lived the life in Christ, and the refutation of all heresies. Visit an Orthodox Church near you.
Galatians 1:8-9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
I went on the progressive Christianity website, and all I have to say is yikes!
Ok, I guess I have something else to say - take a look at their suggested books, and read a couple of their articles. It's terrifying. 😬
I have a loved one who admitted she is Gnostic, and half an hour later was furious with me for not calling her a Christian. I really don't get it. I've met proud neopagans who use the term Christian as an insult. That makes more sense to me.
Loved your content but I have one suggestion: Please give a warning when you are presenting the next sponsor. It comes on too abruptly and very loudly. Thank you for considering my suggestion.
I’m taking notes while watching this and feel absolutely sickened writing the point “non-binary god w/ plural pronouns.” Had to pause the video to write this comment bc I’m dying over here.
god has genitalia ?
40:47 "I owe it to the world to perfect myself... morally. There is no objective right or wrong."
Those sentences made me want to lobotomize myself with my phone's stylus. When the rage and depression I am overcome by when hearing as hopelessly inane a set of sentences as bereft of sense, logic, and rationality as these subsides, I'm all the more amazed by the grace of God. The fact that he would offer mercy to a people of such incomprehensibly inferior intellects and integrity as we, the society who created such literary masterpieces, is astonishing. Woe to us, we white-washed sepulchers.
What are you meaning by saying the Holy Spirit is at work in other religions or in those who are not Christians?? Did I misunderstand?
Sounds like you misunderstood. If you think not, listen again and give us the minutes and seconds where the statement begins.
I follow this guy name Dan McClellan he’s a biblical scholar and seems progressive…
Can we have a link to the article by Brian McLaren on the beginner to advanced people in the 'progressive Movement. I'd like to see who he puts where. Thanks.
Yes, of course. That's why I created this blog post (which I'm still filling out).
www.thedavidwolcott.com/blog/alisa-interview-mar-24
@davidwolcott7747 When I clicked on the hyperlink, the article that came up was how to talk to fundamental evangelicals, but I didn't see anything related to the progression list. Did I miss it or is the hyperlink article wrong?
@@sarahsays194, it's in point number 3. Brian doesn't specifically use the words "beginner/advanced", but he mentions that evangelicals might not be ready for some, or even others, but they might be ready for these others.
I thought the same and went searching further 🙂@@sarahsays194
The circle with the dot at the center is a basic witchcraft symbol. Also is that a West End Games Star Wars book?
I'm not sure what you mean by the circle with the dot. And yes, I have a lot of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings on my shelves. :-)
The only witchcraft symbols are pentagram, pentacle and a triquetra.
👏♥️
You can put "Progressive" in a paper bag with chicken and shake it. Bake it in the oven and it will become crispy.❤
300 books a year? They are either very small books or we have a different definition of reading.
I feel the same way with charismatics calling themselves evangelical.
If you asked one of these progressive Christians, how would they answer the questions: "What is God's plan of salvation for man? What must one do to be saved?"
Often, they deny that we need to be saved at all.
I'm a heretic so perhaps I could give a few differences? ( Although "progressive Christianity is too broad a term and has political connotations that I don't share). For evangelicals salvation is about believing the right things, and getting to heaven when you die. Salvation, to me, is understanding who you really are in Christ "who lighteth every man that cometh into the world". We let go of our false identity (sin nature) and embrace our true nature in Christ, and then share that with the world.
@@DIBBY40 May I humbly suggest "both/and" instead of "either/or"?
@@e.m.8094 I'm not sure that would make sense to me at this time. That God would be concerned that we have the correct doctrinal position before we go to a heavenly afterlife. Jesus used the example of the Good Samaritan to show what God requires. Samaritans believed all the "wrong" things according to the "true" believers. They were hated. Evangelicals would accuse the good Samaritan today of trying to "earn salvation by works". What is salvation to you? 🤔
Dibby40
That sounds like New Age.
What do Christian nationalists and dominionists have in common with other religions?
Does polyamory have any connection to any of these groups? A family member is involved in it and it seems so out of the blue..
I haven't seen that yet, but I won't be surprised if it pops up.
21:16 - “I’m a YEC, I’m an inerrantist”
Yikes. I was trying to be charitable in the listen, but now I don’t really think this guy can come to good conclusions…
Did you try listening to the evidence I presented?
@@thedavidwolcott - yeah, I tried. Look, I get it, Progressive "Christians" aren't Christians. And to a majority of history, this group can probably be deemed heretical. I guess I ironically think it's a waste of time fighting against people who think the world operates on theology. I just think this is just a transitionary era, where humanity is starting to begrudgingly give up religion as its main epistemological way to understand the reality around us.
You guys are right....an atheist Christian or agnostic Christian is an oxymoron.
Please, please, please everyone stop calling them Christians!
Sparkle creed?! It sounds like what My Little Pony would be if it was a religion. I would laugh if it weren't so sad.
Anytime someone puts the word “ progressive “ at the beginning of something that Already exists, you know it will turn to shite…
Lol. So true.
Yikes, did he say that you can't just believe in Jesus death, burial, an resurrection alone to be saved, but that works must be demonstrated also? Ouch. Tell that to the workless Christians talked about in the Bible. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Romans 4:5-8 PS: Yes, we should do good works as Christians.
Why, yes, Scripture does say that faith without works is dead. Thank you for including that passage. My actual position is this: a saving faith will result in works. If your faith doesn't result in works, you need to reassess it.
@@thedavidwolcott Thank you for your reply. James addresses the ‘Brethren’ and emphasizes that we should demonstrate our faith to others (not God): ‘I will show thee my faith by my works’ (James 2:18). However, it’s essential to recognize that works alone can be misleading. For instance, consider the case of the Christian man in the Corinthian church who engaged in an immoral relationship with his father’s wife for a season (I Cor 5). Based solely on his actions at that time, one might assume he was a lost man.
Similarly, if we were to examine Ananias and Sapphira at the wrong time (Acts 5), we might mistakenly conclude that they were lost. The truth is that there will be Christians in heaven whose good works-works that other Christians are confident lead to salvation-will be scrutinized and ultimately burned up (I Cor 3:15). Yet, despite this, they themselves were saved. In addition, the Bible teaches us that there will be Christians in heaven with zero works (Rom 4:5)
Yes, while it’s crucial to continually reassess our faith (II Cor 13:5), we can not consider the works we display to mankind to determine our salvation. Salvation comes through faith alone. We must examine ourselves daily, ensuring that we had placed our trust solely in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our safe passage to heaven.
Our works only serve as a measure for others, not ourselves, and most importantly, not God. Ultimately, our faith alone confirms our position in the faith. We do need to examine our hearts, and after that, we "should" do good works until we die (:. Thanks again.
Perhaps the title of this video should be "What does Progressive Christianity have in common with Christianity?"
We are making up our own religions and denying the power of God and his sovereignty.
💥📖 The Word "Gospel" actually means.... God's Word.....taken from ...go-spell....God...spell/word. A study into the root words in English will reveal this
Actually, progressive heresy doesn't even have ANYTHING in common with other religions. Even Buddhism and Daoism would be APPALLED by most of the things progressive heresy teaches, and oh, boy, don't get me started on what Islam would do to the progressive heretics if they were in a Muslim country.
Progressive heresies and progressive heretics. Thank you. My new terms. I won't call them Christians. Why do people, including Alysa, call them that?
(35:16) _Christianity is at least but not less than; it is at least this but if you take that away you are losing Christianity_
(40:14) "my true self, my instinct, my mind"
> The creed sounds like the Bre Larson Marvel movie.
(28:06) _Benjamin Kramer made a meme-he's a progressive Christian-that the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. No, the greatest commandment is to love the Lord_
_What's interesting about this is that wasn't a standalone thing; Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6 The Shema. It's one of the most famous creeds in Judaism. it's one of the most famous creeds in Christian history and it's specifically-Hear O Israel the Lord Our God the Lord is one: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart._
_That's what Jesus was quoting and then the second commandment came from Leviticus 19. So in Matthew 22 Jesus isn't inventing this new religion. He's pointing back to what you need to obey is this law that was given to you by the Lord through Moses very specifically very clearly._
-David Wolcott
Another one of Satan's deceptions. People are loosing their salvation because they have turned their backs on Christ's Church, the Body of Christ.
Here is where I see it. Everyone is on their own personal journey to understanding who they are and what the world is around them factoring in the life surroundings they have been given. Why do you/we get to decide for someone else what their path looks like? Not all journeys are the same. Many Christians are still on their path to understanding what exactly it is they believe and that doesn't happen overnight... do not discourage or tell someone that they can't call themselves a Christian because they haven't fully come to the same understanding as you. Some people's thoughts and emotions are easily seen.. and some are not. Both of you may call yourselves Christian while still struggling with things unseen, food, sexual thoughts, wanting things you don't have or idolizing another. we can't cast stones because someone is outwardly showing that they haven't understood fully the word of God.
I respect your point, and it is a good one. I have a problem with those leaders of Christian churches who deviate what is said in the Bible..And twisting it into a world view.
Something to consider is that people can come from different cultures or ethnicities and still be Christian. It's easy to conflate being American and leading a conservative lifestyle with being Christian. But Christianity does not come from Amerian culture. Even the right wing, lol
Respectfully, Ephesians 5 11 says we are to call out false teaching. These talks are doing that. Exposing truth from lies. There are so many false teachings, there are so many teaching a different gospel, a different Jesus, and this channel does what it prescribes "Equipping the Saints" 2nd Timothy chapter 4 also digs into this whole thing. They are doing what God is calling them to do, and that is rebuking, reprove, and teaching with truth.
It's not necessarily that someone else gets to decide what intellectual journey one can go on, but rather the wish to respect the guardrails that the label of Christian entails rather than knock them down while one is doing it. Christian doctrine is established (the apostle and nicene creeds are what we look to as he noted) and when you look at what it teaches the teachings are exclusive in nature. Christianity has never been an inclusive religion because of those teachings, therefore the label Christian cannot be inclusive as a result. What makes up any exclusive label are the guardrails of what that label teaches. To use an analogy with another exclusive label, it's like saying to a vegan you can be a vegan and eat a cheeseburger. No meat no cheese is the teaching that the guardrails protects for veganism, so if one says you can be a vegan and eat a cheeseburger, they've had to knock down the guardrails.
@angelaford944 No worries! I can understand completely the mindset of wanting to "expose" another. If someone truly feels in their heart that another is leading others down an incorrect path then I completely understand that and discernment would be needed. But for that discernment to take place before convincing that person we first have to evaluate with complete honesty. Is what they are teaching something that is open for interpretation? Because if it is then we shouldnt have enough internal conviction personally to tell someone else that they should not call themselves a Christian. We all are imperfect beings. And we all have a right to make our own decisions and form our own beliefs. That's why is so important to create a personal relationship with God and to seek him. The seeking is the magical part. Alot of the words spoken from the mouth of Jesus were by design ment for open interpretation. He spoke in parables so that only true followers would understand the message. While I do feel we should absolutely preach the message that we believe is the right one we have to respect also to a degree the interpretation that others may have on their hearts.. if say there was a pastor out their preaching an interpretation of the Bible that is incorrect ultimately the truth comes to light the more close a person becomes in their own personal journey with Christ. And the people listening to those sermons will uncover that on their own while forming their own beliefs if they are truly seeking. And if not they will be mislead. That's just kinda my thoughts and I respect everyone's thoughts and beliefs as well. 🙏 Personally though I feel within the context.. it's saying to have discernment and stay away vs pointing fingers etc. Stay vigilant for yourself/family and loved ones and above all we are called to be an "image bearer" of God and to treat others the way Jesus would treat others. Demonstrate our beliefs or interpretations with as much compassion and love that Jesus would and naturally our bright light will uncover the darkness. I understand also that there are many different teachings and some could be labeled false teachings but doesn't each human have a right to decide for themselves what is correct or false? That's kinda what I ment. The truth is written on the hearts of those whose name is written in the book of life.
Who Jesus is is the key. ALL other belief systems other than Biblical Christianity say Jesus is a created being and that He isn't God. Then they may add that He did not die and rise again or that what He did on the cross is not sufficient for salvation and that works are needed to be added for salvation (Baptism, re-sacrifice of the Eucharist, etc.). Then they , of course, say that the Bible is not the Word of God and add their own. For me, if anything or anyone diminishes Jesus as God the Son, creator of the Universe and the living Word then I know I am to reject that person as a false teacher and/or their philosophy.
So you are ruling out The Catholic Church?
So much of what is being said here is incredibly disingenuous, but probably nothing tops the assertion that Mrs. Childers made about the creeds not addressing penal substitutionary atonement theory, because it was not contested at the time. It wasn’t mentioned, because it literally did not exist at the time! It is a post-biblical concept that is so far removed (by hundreds of years) from how the early church understood the atonement.
It is so difficult to engage in good faith with this content, because the information that is being provided is, in many cases, just factually wrong.
1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
Galatians 1:4
who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness-by whose stripes you were healed.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Why does Alisa Childers pretend to be a Bible teacher ?
What do you think qualifies someone to be a Bible teacher?
I don’t think she professes to be that at all…apologetics is really her bent and she’s excellent. So, not sure where you get the notion of ‘Bible teacher’…🤷🏻♀️
Alisa, I appreciate your podcast but sometimes what you discuss lacks a necessary nuance. I am familiar with many,many “progressive Christians” and “progressive Christian churches” (in that they hold many progressive moral and social values) that vehemently reject panentheism on the grounds of the problem of evil. These people do not believe in Jesus “in some way,” as your guest says, but they believe Jesus is the messiah and through him and his death and resurrection we are saved. It might help you to bring a progressive Christian on your show to discuss their theological position. God bless you.
There is a difference between Progressive Christians and Christians with progressive political leanings. We're talking about Progressive Christians.
Please refer to Undaunted Life podcast and CooperStuff
Actually, maybe you should go to their website and look around. They make no bones about not believing Jesus is the only way…many progressives reject the idea that Jesus died for our sins but claim he died for empire…🤷🏻♀️ They also reject Jesus being the only way to the Father. They reject the second coming…so many things. It’s preposterous to even call themselves ‘Christian’.
OK Alisa , I got your invitation for me to message you privately . And I thank you for your apparent willingness to engage with me . However , any issues you wanna address with me can be expressed through this here medium , youtube . I ain't got nothing to hide , and any prospective dialogue , I believe , should be conducted publicly , as your concerns are obviously related to what I've written openly here on youtube through its publicly accessible comment forum .
I received one of those also. It's a fake msg. One of the dangers of the internet.😥
Okay, I'm here to talk publicly.
@@thedavidwolcott Yeah , OK . I appreciate your preparedness to contest those controversial issues publicly with me . Not sure now if that notification I got purprtedly from Alisa Childers to message her privately was genuine . As you'll see , the other reply I got to my acknowledgement of her presumed invitation is from a party unknown to me , warning me that it was bogus .
@@colinpurssey9875, yeah, I'd expect just about any such offers made in RUclips comments by someone with a platform as large as Alisa's would be fraudulent. I don't think I've ever seen her comment on RUclips, just like most people with thousands of followers typically don't get into the comment section all that much.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to talk to an actual progressive Christian rather than bringing on an Evangelical who only studies deconstructionism to discredit it?
Is that why I study it?
@@thedavidwolcott when you’re literally starting with ‘Progressive Christianity isn’t Christianity at all’ that tells me all I need to know about you.
@@RationalistMH, I started with that? Where? When? That's news to me.
Progressive christianity is self-discrediting
@@RationalistMHHow are you a Christian when you deny substitutionary atonement, and that Jesus is the way to the Father…that’d be the only way. I’m just going by what y’all put up on your website…🤷🏻♀️
Heretics of the world unite!
Nobody needs a weekly book club to be a decent person who contributes to human flourishing.
Calvinism is worse than most progressive church doctrine.
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you.
@@thedavidwolcott I will give you a quest. Could the catholic doctrine of Original sin, where we inherit Adam's guilt, be wrong?
Calvinism affirms the Bible, progressives dismiss it, Catholics add to it and modify it’s teachings
@@strattgatt5303, that's a Catholic doctrine? I thought you were against Calvinism?
@@thedavidwolcott Calvinism is built on Catholic doctrines. Specifically, original sin. That is why most Calvinists, Anglicans, and Presbyterians baptise children.
I’m opposed to “progressive” Christianity. And I’m equally opposed to “MAGA” Christianity. Both are false. There really isn’t much Church territory left these days for people who don’t conform to either one.
This is how I feel. I don’t like the ultra-conservativeness of some Christian communities, but I also don’t like how progressive Christianity is obsessive about deconstruction to the point that the very basics of the gospel are questioned.
I started calling myself a Follower of Christ rather than Christian because being a Christian in our culture seems so generic.
Grace is for faith, all that is not of faith is sin, grace is merited by good works, not grace v good works, but grace v sin. So-called Christianity is a faith of good works and Christ is Judge.
Grace is NOT merited by good works according to the word of God. " Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer of grace; otherwise work is no longer work."-Rom. 11:5-6. " For by grace have you been saved, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."-Eph. 2:8-9.
@@jamestrotter3162 I nteresting you chose Romans 11:6 as my #1 Ytube video in the series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' shows that works are sin, simply as defined in Romans 3:20, no man is justified by sin. Works as told by Paul are transgressions of the law, and check Galatians 3:10 for the same.
Ephesians 2:8-9 grace is not our own, not of sin lest any boast, you see back then many like the Pharisees were committing sin and boast salvation, as many do now, but there is no grace for sin.
Grace is deserved for those of faith, justified into the church while sinners, with access to grace, but only those in Christ who walk after the Spirit, not the flesh are no longer condemned.
Romans 5-8 is baptism.
@@jamestrotter3162 I nteresting you chose Romans 11:6 as my #1 Ytube video in the series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' shows that works are sin, simply as defined in Romans 3:20, no man is justified by sin. Works as told by Paul are transgressions of the law, and check Galatians 3:10 for the same.
Ephesians 2:8-9 grace is not our own, not of sin lest any boast, you see back then many like the Pharisees were committing sin and boast salvation, as many do now, but there is no grace for sin.
Grace is deserved for those of faith, justified into the church while sinners, with access to grace, but only those in Christ who walk after the Spirit, not the flesh are no longer condemned.
Romans 5-8 is baptism.
The gospel of salvation is Romans. Paul does not have a creed other than the covenant made with Abraham, but now with the Spirit poured out Romans 8 requires a spiritual connection, not salvation at the Cross but the obedience of faith.
Jesus did not come to show us we cannot be good, he came to make sure we are good else no eternal life, as only those sanctified are perfected with past sins forgiven at baptism.
The Creed is Romans, not 1 Corinthians 15, as that is only a synecdoche or headline first given before the full message as Romans.
I have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity' that exposes Christianity is divorced from its roots of the law of Abraham, as Paul does in Romans.
What you are affirming is not the once-for-all-delivered-to-the-saints faith in Jesus. What does Paul say about preachers of “another” gospel?
@@muxion No I am happy with the NT and the use of Romans or John as the gospel. I disagree with the RCC assuming it is the church, when Jesus inherited it from his Father.
You guys are both woke and progressive.
What does woke even mean? We may never know. *shrug*
@@JDoe-gf5oz Woke is kind of like a mirror. Whoever is using the term in their own vocabulary is usually projecting their issue onto the opposing team 😅 I don't know if that quite made sense the way I phrased it, but I'm sticking with it lol
@@FireflowerDancer I mean the religious people have been beguiled by the serpent to eat from the tree of knowledge so they progressed from God's original command and are now woke having their eyes opened. Now they have the scales of Good and Evil over their eyes. Half of everything they see is corrupted
Dear brother and sister all you are doing is analysing with your intellect, without understanding the heart of so many who have moved on by the leading of the H.S. from Protestant Fundamentalism. Please refrain from this judgemental attitude and as Jesus did when young...grow in wisdom(Luke 2:52) and be transformed into the likeness of Christ. Not religion with its Pharasaical spirit attacking your brethren, who love God/Jesus and their fellow man. Father by the H.S. reveal their folly. Do what you did with Paul the Pharisee (Galatians 1:16) as he was persecuting CHRIST in those who believed in Jesus. Amen
The bible is about the reader period! Hence the kingdom is within YOU! ( Luke 17.21)… they will say look over here or there but do not believe them!!! Why??? Because you are Christ! Christ is your experience of yourself and the reality you make! Who do you say I AM?? That’s Christ asking you.. who do you say you are?? As a man thinks in his heart so is he!
What kind of crazy are you saying here?
@@heatherwoods5703 😂 just the bible which you clearly can’t hear or you wouldn’t call it crazy! Know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you?! ( 2 Corinth 13.5).. it’s not out there in history! It’s an allegory of the source of everything which is I AM! Where is it?? Within you ( Luke 17.21).. stop reading the dead letter which is the carnal interpretation! It’s the spirit that gives life!! The essence of it!
@terrypaul7706
"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me," - John 5:39
The whole Bible tells about God, His creation, and His redemptive plan through Jesus Christ. It's "sharper than any two-edged sword... discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart." -Herbrews 4:12
It's not your horoscope where you can read INTO it whatever you're looking for. It has meaning itself that you must submit under and let it judge YOU.
@@heatherwoods5703 testify about me means the I AM! The I AM in ALL! Not some Jew in history! You search the scriptures in vain!!! Looking for Christ when it’s within YOU! You submit to the I AM ( your awareness of being).. not man’s laws! You submit to the creative power within yourself! When you say I AM and harm another you are God harming God!!! That’s why you are to have the mind of Christ! The father judges no one, he’s reserved that for the son !! Which is the manifested awareness! You are to judge yourself! Not condemn!! Judge everything righteously!! Because there is no good and evil! It is perfect! There is no man in the sky! This is not a laundry list! You are to believe in I AM ( exodus 3.14)..
@terrypaul7706 oh my word. I hear about people who believe this. We are not God. We bear the image of God. If we are in Christ we bear His name and we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. But we are NOT God. We are not gods. They're is only one God-Man Jesus Christ, the historical Jesus, "God- With- Us" Emanuel.
You are deceived. Pray for discernment and read a faithful translation of the Bible over and over. Look for videos by Melissa Dougherty. She was involved in false teaching and now talks about it in light of Scripture. God bless.
Sanatan dharma is truth. That's why Jesus went to India in his lost years
Jesus is not God. He makes thar very clear