Exposing Corruption in the Evangelical Church: The infiltration of a Leftist agenda, w/ Megan Basham
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Megan Basham joins the podcast to talk about her bombshell book, Shepherds for Sale: How Evangelical Leaders Traded Truth for a Leftist Agenda. Basham documents how progressive powerbrokers -from George Soros, to the founder of eBay, to former members of the Obama administration- set out to change the American church. Secular foundations and think tanks have deliberately targeted Christian media, universities, megachurches, nonprofits, and even entire denominations, not to mention many high-profile pastors and influencers, with infiltration and astroturf campaigns. Their goal: to co-opt the church for political purposes. In exchange for toeing a left-wing line, many of those church leaders and institutions have received cash, career jumps, prestige, and praise.
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Since there have been so many comments about this, I will say that I have watched Gavin Ortlund’s video (and his previous environmental video) and do not think Megan misrepresented his sentiments. Big Eva is throwing their weight behind trying to discredit her, but I think that’s because she’s right over the bullseye.
*UPDATE* The term “Big Eva” is not a pejorative or slur. The term has meaning. Here is an article by Dr. Carl Trueman explaining it: heidelblog.net/2018/08/trueman-what-big-eva-is-and-why-it-matters-to-reformed-churches/
It upsets me that I get as upset as I do by stuff like this but seems like we are now in a place in the west where we have more time to criticise and bite and devour as Paul puts it than actually serving Jesus. You know doing the things He actually asked us to do. When it’s got to the point that orthodox people like Gavin Ortlund are in your crosshairs may God help the rest of us.
@@alisachilders Your response is deeply grieving and distressing to my heart.
Alisa, the misrepresentations in Meg's book are clear and in some cases simply matters of fact and biography (e.g., claims about what I have read). This has nothing to do with "Big Eva" trying to discredit her. It has to do with me, an individual person, responding to specific claims made about that are factually and verifiably incorrect. I gave page numbers in my video so that you can confirm for yourself. I encourage you to reconsider. No culture war is worth sacrificing integrity over in the process, however right we think the larger end is. Telling the truth matters. If you are still in doubt about whether Meg's book is not honest but open to hearing even more information, I would be happy to supply it.
"I will say that I have watched Gavin Ortlund’s video (and his previous environmental video) and do not think Megan misrepresented his sentiments."
Journalists have investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing.
@@alisachilders Why not invite Gavin personally on the podcast? If we have it in us to slander him and accuse him of being a sellout shepherd, then saying it to his face should be easy enough for you and Megan. 🤷🏼♀️
Mankind's greatest need is salvation. If a church loses that mission, they become just a social club.
Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!
But we are a tri union human being we need salvation physically as well as spiritually of course spiritually is the most important because if you die you don't want to go to hell but when I go to church and the pastor absolutely doesn't bring up some of the social woes that we are suffering all week long going to work in our secular businesses it really is disheartening to me to not have any one mention that our president was just almost assassinated.
@kimneiswanger5804
Our former president who posted in the NY POST for the murder of black and Latino youth who were innocent, and the hitler-trump still lies and says they are guilty !!
@@kimneiswanger5804 should we be sad?!?! He is a horrible liar and person. And doesn't have the Spirit if Christ in him AT ALL!!!! He is a felon convicted by a jury of his peers and DOES NOT DESERVE THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY!!!
@@kimneiswanger5804 ? No. Just No. This is not a real problem.
I'm a conservative pastor at a small country church who checks all the boxes: traditional view of marriage, young earth creationist, complimentarian, inerrantist and against the liberal order in all its current manifestations. I'm not big Eva.
I am saddened by the trend in the church of responding to the attacks of "the left" by moving to the opposite extreme. If this is the new right, then I didn't leave the right, the right left me.
Books like Megan's inflame the situation by implying (with slander) that pastors like Ortlund and Keller are some kind of sellout. I will not be purchasing her book to see if it is as bad as I do the best I can not to give my money to things that I consider to be opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So you can judge Megan’s book without actually reading it.
So am I. But I read the book. This isn’t Pulpit and Pen nonsense. Read it before you dismiss it
How is the book going in the opposite scheme? Pointing out with plain examples how progressives have been using the church and manipulating people is not right wing. For the part about Gavin specifically, it sounded like she fairly represented him and perhaps he misrepresents her in his video.
@@bartholomewa9294Except you e read the scenario backwards. And you have rewarded the projectionist who is actually the profiteer.
It would be a show of good faith if Megan would post the Gavin Ortlund chapter for free somewhere so people can read it without violating their conscience in funding slander. Other than that, I don't give money to organizations that are opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
It seems like her criticism of Gavin Ortlund is unfounded and deceptive. Her quotes of Gavin were misleading and did not represent his position. That is a pretty serious issue to slander someone like that.
Yep, completely undermines any credibility.
At worst she slandered and bore false witness against a fellow believe. At BEST, she severely lacks wisdom and charitableness, at least in this instance. It calls into question how she performs research and assesses the positions and nuanced views of other Christians.
Yes. Gavin Ortlund shows the receipts in his video and handles being slandered in a graceful manner.
Gavin Ortlund does not believe in a worldwide flood he is a darwinian evolutionist and believes Adam was an allegory he has way more problems than trying to push the world economic forum climate change rubbish you are fools if you support Gavin the Not so saved by his own stances Krizchun.
@@jimyoung9262yup because if that were me? My response would've been nuclear.
I am amazed that Christians are canceling each other so easily and vehemently based on secondary issues. Very sad. A open and honest discussion on climate change by Gavin Ortlund - 1 out of hundreds of RUclips Videos and she misquotes and misrepresents his entire dialogue. Very sad 😢
I'd like to ask, did she first present her findings to the people she is castigating and then to the church? Did she try to be a voice of internal change or did she just point and shoot in a public place? It seems to me, the message is presented in the best financial way for her. I'm wondering how accurate her information is and what is my responsibility, if any, as a Christian.
@@edwardwilliams8261 Thank you! I totally agree!
According to Gavin, no. She did not reach out to him beforehand. @@SpaceCadet4Jesus
I doubt you cared about the cancellations of people who didn’t vaccinated in 2021 🙄people literally lost their livelihoods from it. spare me
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus, Evidently not. Great observation.
Alisa, Gavin Ortland did a response video to this book showing how she misrepresented and slandered him. I’m not sure that Megan has applied the journalistic integrity writing this book.
Yes. Absolutely shocking.
There's more where that came from. Pastor Ben Marsh has a full list of manipulations and downright lies. Makes me so mad, I'm conservative theologically and politically. This is not how Christians should behave.
Yep, she lost all credibility in my eyes.
This. Amen.
Because someone responds and doth protest to an article about them doesn't mean the article isn't true.
It would seem that her criticisms of Ortlund (and maybe Keller) are deceptive. She's clearly misrepresented Ortlund and should retract these comments
I was wondering if you’ve made any effort to read her book yet? Because she establishes in it how leftists plans to purposely co-opt Christian values and language in order to garner support from leading pastors in the evangelical church. She’s states in her book that many pastors were/are deceived because of how these issues have been framed. And that’s what she’s attempting to bring to light: the deception. Recently, a lay leader told me if he were being deceived, he’d know it. I replied, “funny thing about deception is you wouldn’t, otherwise, it’s not deception.”
Haven't read her book but I watched Gavin Ortlund's response video. He was much more charitable than most would have been, and showed significantly more wisdom and grace than she appears to have demonstrated in her book.
100% He does far more for Christianity that Basham does. She highly misrepresented him and needs to retract immediately. Otherwise it’s obvious she isn’t concerned with truth.
im very glad to see these comments. where as i agree that we shouldbe concerned about leftist ideology entering the pulpit, Ortland and keller are not examples that belong in the book. Frankly including them seriously demages her credibility. id like to see her redact their inclusion and see childers do the same.
Right on.
There is something about this book and Megan that makes me uneasy. I wish I could put my finger on the problem. I watched Gavin Ortlund's response to the book's dealing with him and showed it was all false. So how much more in the book is false or misleading I wonder? She takes partial quotes and facts and makes them say what she wants.
I am with you. If she misrepresented Gavin Ortland in such a way, it makes me wonder if I can trust her in her other claims.
Oh there's more. Really disappointing.
Totally agree. Keep speaking out! Hopefully Alisa will consider what Gavin has to say in his own video.
There is plenty of turmoil and scandal in the church as it is. Why she felt the need to bear false witness is beyond reason. It calls into question any other claim she might have made in her book.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Listen to his video on Climate Change. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
I have not read the book, but listening to Gavin Ortlund-who did read it-makes me think that Megan needs to issue a retraction of certain parts of it.
And it calls into question all her "receipts."
Ortlund has not presented a balanced view of the climate change issue. He's presented a leftist, progressive view on it. That's a fact. He has not been misrepresented. Loyalty to a pastor shouldn't come before the truth. I've read her book, by the way.
@@irismetcalfe listen to his response video to Megan’s book.
@@irismetcalfe Did you watch his video regarding climate change? I'm thinking you didn't.
@@irismetcalfe Even if he has not presented a balanced view of the climate change issue, what should be central here are his Christian views. In his video on climate change his whole point is that political and social issues should not be a source of division between believers. Our shared faith should come first and not be threatened by us disagreeing on secular issues. It is a sad irony how his views have been taken.
I don't doubt that some of what she's saying is true, but as far as "receipts" go, those can be manipulated and skewed and Gavin Ortlund's video clearly proves that. I sincerely hope Megan didn't misrepresent anyone as outrageously as she did to him but it makes me wary of everything else she's saying. I hope you'll hear his side of this because she slandered him and that is not at all an exaggeration. I hope you will set the record straight because many people are taking your and Megan's word for it.
Ironically, she's profiting from spreading what is false in pursuit of her ideology...
He didn't prove anything. Everything she said is true
It’s sad that followers of his (like you) are trolling the comments.
@@roxyfoxyyy7I am not a follower of Gavin Oltund and I am sure most people defending him are not. We are followers of Jesus Christ, the one who died for us. However, we also respect him as our brother in Christ. I disagree with so much of what he says like calvinism being biblical but if you want to name and shame leftists you can start with Benny Hinn or the methodist church and so on. Of all the people, Oltund, really?
Her section on Gavin Ortlund is way off the mark and quite frankly disingenuous. He has responded to it on his channel Truth Unites.
Absolutely.
You didn't actually read the book did you?
@philipnichols5344 Gavin has and showed sections on the book about Meghans accusations.
If you think this is a fair book, please listen to Gavin Ortlund’s response to how he was misquoted and misrepresented on his channel Truth Unites.
Listened to Gavin's responses and watched his original videos and read Megan's book, and she actually represented him fairly, although some of what she said are her opinions, but they are reasonable.
He was not misrepresented. She represented him perfectly. You Ortlund fan boys are really quite something.
When Gavin Ortlund calls for a retraction of her summary of his views, you know something is really bad!!
Absolutely.
@@lindsaygraham9115 Same!
Seriously calls into question her wisdom, charity, and method of research.
@@JamesWilliams-he4lb So.... quoting HIS statements that HE made on HIS own published videos is a reflection of HER wisdom, charity and method of research. The Ortlund worshippers are getting weirder with each new excuse for HIS own statements and actions.
@@Vevay1961 Ortlund worshippers? Be careful how you are judging
Megan Basham deceptively misquoted Gavin Ortlund to make him appear as some kind of climate activist.
Gavin Ortlund has a video on the topic.
I do not recommend this woman's book.
Completely agree!
You didn't even read it. Get real. She didn't misrepresent anything
@@LM-mq2pjshe did. Really trol? 😂
@@johncarloflorentino You misspelled troll
@@LM-mq2pj ok. Troll.
I heard about this book on Gavin Ortlund's channel, where he (as always) responds to criticism against him, in a humble and truth-seeking manner. I hope the rest of her book is more of an accurate description of problems, than the portion where she writes about him. I don't always agree with Gavin 100%, but Basham certainly seems to have misrepresented him in her book.
Agreed, he showed far more charity in his response than she afforded him in her misrepresentation.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Listen to his video on Climate Change. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
Yet, you've never read the book. Are you judging her by telepathy?
@@Vevay1961 No, her own words from both her own interviews and others who have advanced copies.
you all are missing the larger danger.
Grace and peace to you, sister. Doubtless, this is likely a fruitless comment, but Ms. Basham needs to be admonished for bearing false witness against fellow Christians in her book. Please see Gavin Ortlund's video response to her critiques of him. He shows very clearly (and humbly, I might add) that she misrepresented and maligned him. Giving her the benefit of the doubt as a sister in Christ, perhaps a co-writer or editor made the mistakes. In that case, she should - in the name of truth and charity - address the error. The Kingdom isn't served by half-truths and certainly not by blatant falsehoods. Blessings.
Gavin is a wonderful Pastor, of which we can learn alot. Clear and humble is his style.
Ironically making money from her false assertions as well...
@@JamesWilliams-he4lb Just including him in a book about church corruption is bad enough.
If Gavin is such a wonderful person with so many strengths, certainly a book's phrasing that doesn't hit his fans as just right will NOT affective him. He will come out of this even better - IF he truly is God's gift to the universe.
He -and his followers-don't seem to care as much about "the sheep" and the lies of the left as much as preserving their shared image of holiness and goodness at all times, even if this is about only ONE trivial video about a topic HE CLAIMS he doesn't really know much about anyway.
@@jankragt7789 He doesn’t belong in her book. He has nothing to with Big Eva. He’s small potatoes. He’s in there because the two of them had a Twitter spat over his climate video, and I’m sure he got the best of her. This was a revenge move on her part, so the story goes.
I will not be buying this book until Megan has a live discussion with Dr Ortlund about the part in her book specifically about him. Sorta disappointed here, as I was anticipation reading the book.
Same here
Even then...
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
@NotToday-gv7qn Yeh, you're full of it. It's not a question that's close enough to dispute
@@NotToday-gv7qnok troll. 😂
Id love to buy a book that MacArthur and other great folks recommend, but hearing the attacks to Gavin Ortlund, a faithful brother, I am turned off from buying the book. Megan should go and have a interview with Ortlund.
Same I will not be giving her my money after the revelations about Gavin and others.
Yep. Pretty sure false witness for profit undermines her moral position.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
Ortlund is a theological liberal.
@@matthewdyer2926he does not believe in a worldwide flood and believes Adam was an allegory he needs to be marked and avoided a ivory tower higher criticism rubbish Marxist Theeohlogian. Bashan was kind to this Wolf.
From my view as a bystander its unbelievable how much "cant see the forest for the trees" I have seen throughout this controversy. Guys - the world is watching while we are doing this. Not only are we fighting each other over this but its a totally worthless, worldly, political topic that has nothing to do with the Church or the Words of our Lord and Savior!
But lets hear what the Lord has to say, Proverbs 11; 1-3 "A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight. When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the crookedness of the treacherous destroys them."
I dont care too much about this "climate change" thing and I dont agree with Gavin Ortlund on this at all but I can tell you that Megan Basham and her take on Gavins thoughts is far of balance and could be even called spiteful and dishonest. Gavin has so far released more than 288 videos, on various topics, which equals more than 190 hours of content (the prep not even included). Every issue was handled carefully with the goal to preserve first and foremost a respectful or irenic way of engaging thoughts, ideas and a lot of disagreement. I myself dont always agree with him but I am always thankful for his thoughts and his ways of engaging his participants. I think that his service is helpful for the body and in that he represents a benchmark on "how to youtoube christian dialogue"....
Now you are telling me that all of his 190 hours of deep, thoughtful, christ honoring content are worthless compared to 35 minutes from a video on "climate change" !?
I hear RC Sproul shouting "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?"....
35 minutes of "climate change" compared to 11520 minutes on "christ honoring helpful content" is worth labeling him "a sellout" or just recently, throwing him into a pool called
"Exposing Corruption in the Evangelical Church: The infiltration of a Leftist agenda". I - CAN - NOT - BELIEVE - THIS - IS - HAPPENING!
Are you people blind?
Apart from all the details and "mischaracterizations" that he wants to settle - the mere fact that he is mentioned in a book called "Shepherds for Sale: How Evangelical Leaders Traded Truth for a Leftist Agenda" or videos with the headline "Exposing corruption" is unbelievable and unworthy of anyone that calls himself a christian. I am laughing while I am reading my own words. How can anyone describe Gavin Ortlund as a "corrupt sellout" with hidden leftist agenda 🤣🤣🤣
As the lord said - he HATES false balance! And he also tells us about the fruit which is now clearly before us. Megan Basham must apologize!
It’s a shame too, because everyone defending Megan hears this, and either can’t get past the differing views on climate change, or they just call you a fanboy for pointing out the misrepresentation. Pretty hard to have a dialogue when people just say you’re part of a cult and then move on. I think Gavin has handled this as well as he possibly could have, but while we who defend him get accused of defending man before scripture, I feel that the other side is in many cases placing their identities as conservatives above our shared identities in Christ.
@@alz1997 " the other side is in many cases placing their identities as conservatives above our shared identities in Christ." Major point!
Please interact with Gavin Ortlund’s video responded to Megan’s accusations against him. It seems like she misrepresented his views in her book.
You need to bring Gavin Ortlund on to talk about this book
Megan Basham didn't have the decency to reach out to Gavin Ortlund and totally misrepresented his stand on climate change. How many others did she condemn without talking with them? I question those "receipts."
Exactly. It is shameful and hypocritical.
Using his own words ??
Our conservative denomination, Evangelical Presbyterian Church, recently proudly announced that we received $750K from the Lilly Pharmaceutical company. I assured my husband that it was in response to a grant application. It wasn't just a "gift". It was asked for by the "influencers" of the denomination. At the same "Presbytery", the pastors representing over 700 churches overwhelmingly voted to embrace a Woke "paper" and a Woke pastor to emulate. My husband and a couple other elders tried to show the rest of the elders at our church what was going on. Our pastor said he did not agree with the Woke paper but, since it was something we didn't have to participate in, he went on doing his pastorate as usual. The rest of the elders acted like it was all no big deal and the congregation at large does not know about these things. After 27 years of being with this conservative church, we left the church and are in search of another church. It's been very hard but we are sure we were to leave a denomination and a church led by leaders who don't see the danger and how they refused to give straight answers to our questions. We are heart-broken to leave but it's safe to say that that church and denomination are no longer our church. It's been very difficult for us. I know so many are disappointed that we left but if we start telling the whole story about our pastor's lack of response to the information, he will say we are causing strife. So, we left as quietly as we could. The elders know our position but very few others know why. Sadly, they would have seen my sharing as gossip. Sadly, two other "conservative" Presbyterian churches we visited also embrace and use the Woke ideology in some way as well.
So sad, so hard and so tough to have to leave the congregation after 27 years! Heartbreaking indeed! Greetings from Romania, Eastern Europe.
@@mariamarin7045 If you don't mind me asking, why type of church do you attend in Romania?
Shout the woke agenda from the rooftops. Let everyone in your church know why you left. Being guilted by pastor or elders who went along is BS. We can’t worry about what someone else thinks in something so important. Worth fighting for. God did not give us the spirit of timidity…
@@maryloulongenbaugh7069 I get it. We are in touch with some of the elders and they are now discussing the direction that EPC is taking. We want to be sure to be gentle, you know, grace AND truth. And truth will come out as we follow the Lord's leading. We aren't silent but we are also not trying to cause a major split either.
@@debbiesorganicgardenPlease be certain that your issues are actually based in Scripture, and not in conservative political ideology opposing “wokeness”. Our theology must be the evaluator of culture, not the opposite. I say this because the opposite is so prevalent now. Critics of Keller, Carson, Ortlund and others reveal this. They are far more trustworthy than their detractors who begin from political perspectives (as Basham does).
Megan has done some important work, but her misrepresentation of Gavin Ortlund is so egregious that I must question the verisimilitude of all her other contentions. This fine scholar and man of God has no business being mentioned in this book.
I agree. I was eager to hear what she had to say until I saw how she twisted and manipulated Gavin Ortlands words and intent. Now I'm afraid I mistrust the rest of her work, though I believe there is a lot of 0:25 truth here. This is so unfortunate.
I also mistrust Megan's work.
I watched the actual recordings quoted and summarized in the book and Gavin's responses and Megan actually represented him fairly in the book and Gavin's response actually made little sense.
Have you read Megan's book in it's entirety? Have you watched the video and/or writings she references in it in their entirety? Have you seen any of her responses or explanations in their entirety? I think we should all do that before we get too invested in an opinion on this matter.
I read the portions regarding Gavin Ortlund. Those are the only focus of my comments. There may be much truth in what else she says but I strenuously disagree with Gavin’s portrayal and inclusion. Reading an infinite number of subsequent truths would not remove the initial untruth.
My hubby's graduate work was in environmental science waaaay back in the early 90's. It was all about using what we have been given (by our Creator God) wisely with a focus on preserving, recycling and renewal. Much like our grandparents did in the great depression. FF 35 years and this same "science" is basically humans are a plague to the creation and they should be taxed, fined, shamed and made to suffer for using natural resources all the while the elites use more "carbon" in a year than most middle class-families use in an entire lifetime.
It is a SCAM and it is making millionaires like Gore into billionaires.
We must resist!!!
My hubby's graduate work. No. I thought canning was going well. Water is canned now.
Eu sou Pentecostal, uma religião quase majoritária no Brasil, moro em um lugar pobre , uma favela urbana do sul do Brasil, na minha comunidade uma grande parte do povo vive de reciclagem de materiais e lixo reciclado pra sobreviver. Bem , Aparir dos anos 90, depois da ditadura militar no Brasil, aos poucos os evangélicos Pentecostais foram ganhando uma força inacreditável, esses políticos evangélicos da direita conservadora, em vez se de a maioria deles lutar politicamente em favor das causas do povo mais pobre, da igualdade, da ecologia, dos direitos trabalhistas adquiridos pelos governos da esquerda, diga-se com muitaluta, fazem ao contrário. Tais políticos religiosos, muitos deles que até são investigados e presos por corrupção, tentam sóbre a edige do progresso econômico tirar direitos dos trabalhadores, sendo a favor do desmatamentos, e a favor favor da especulação privada por interesses , sendo contra as lutas da comunidade sem terra , pelo direito a terras para plantios saudáveis e sustento familiares destes . Eu não tenho formação acadêmica, mais leio muitos livros que denunciam o sobre o que está por trás da agenda conservadora política evangélica. Na verdade tais políticos evangélicos fazem lobi , compram fazendas, desmatam áreas ilegais , cometem crimes, igrejas que têm parcerias com o crime organizado. Eu por exemplo procuro considerar o e que dê bom e frutífero tem a teologia da liberação, apesar de ser uma teologia latino-americana progressista, tal teologia tem aspectos contrários a ortodoxia, isso é fato, porém tem positivo desse pseudo marxismo ao lado da luta pelos direitos do povo, pela ecologia, pela educação ao pobre, pelas demandas da sociedade, nisso concordo com a teologia da liberação. Porém o que domina o mundo evangélico no Brasil é o conservarismo extremo, a teologia da prosperidade, e a política da ultra-direita importada do Tramp e Bolsonaro. Essa política depois do regime é ditadura militar vem novamente no Brasil assombrar a democracia, com um discurso de ameaça de comunismo. A ultra direita quer na verdade, e é o que eu suspeito, sob uma militância liberal, tirar os direitos do pobre, direitos conquistados com muita luta pela esquerda, pelo partido PT. Aqui no Brasil tem saude gratuita pra todos , pobres e ricos , as empresas estatais tem programas assistências, aqui tem programas assistências com dinheiro para os miserável de rua, aqui o trabalhador assalariados tem prêmio anual em dinheiro do governo, tem direito extra no final do ano , tem fundo de garantia, tem seguro desemprego, tem acesso a crédito para o empreendedor pobre. Tem remédios caríssimos do sistema de saúde gratuito, tem operações eletivas caríssimas, odontologia gratuita a todos , ricos e pobres. Tais direitos estão ameaçados pela extrema direita e por alguns congressistas evangélicos, a chamada bancada congressista evangélica. Olha, eu sou consevador na doutrina ortodoxa, porém não compactuo ou apoio esses fatos " conservadores políticos, trampistas e bolsonaristas cristãos, Isso é lamentável .
@@pedroka7013 Indeed what you describe is regrettable. I pray for you and your family. However, nothing is right or good about Marxism. Rather such doctrines steal from the Christian faith. Who taught Marx that "the love of money is the root of evil?"
There is one Lord, and "in him are hidden all the riches of wisdom." Amen.
Fight for truth whatever the cost, for "what shall it prosper for a man to gain the world but lose his soul?"
By "expensive elective operations" do you mean gender reassignment?
Sim , o marxismo é um perigo para a fé cristã em quanto se torna uma visão militante, uma seita ideológica e política, porém eu estou dizendo que ler Marx ou sociólogos marxistas, tem que se ler sim , o que é válido para uma crítica social, o cristão ingênuo, aceita tudo o que vem aqui no Brasil da política da direita evangélica. O problema é que eles querem impor pautas morais , porém tais políticos evangélicos do Brasil esquecem que estão legislando não só para o povo evangélico mais para uma população pluralista. Tais políticos amedrontam a população a anos com um suposto comunismo que nunca acontecerá no Brasil. Isto porque a direita no Brasil sempre dominou o meio político aqui. Foram mais de vinte anos de ditadura de direita. A economia do Brasil só melhorou para os pobres um pouco com a ascensão do partido de esquerda de centro o PT. Recentemente um político e pastor pentecostal descaradamente em um podcast comentou sobre uma proposta da oposição para diminuir a carga de trabalho do trabalhador empregado efetivo, ridículo, pois os trabalhadores nos países como os EUA e Japão trabalham horas até a exaustão, " propiciando estabilidade na economia ", tal deputado faz comparações ridículas com países desenvolvidos. O tal pastor deputado é uma figura controversa, um esbanjador do dinheiro público, Recentemente gastou uma fortuna com implantes dentários de centenas de dólares. Tais políticos de direita bolsonarista a moda Trump sorrateiramente querem tirar direitos sociais e trabalhalhistas adquiridos com muita luta pela esquerda brasileira. Quando a sua pergunta sobre as operações clínicas gratuitas da saúde pública, me parece que tem sim uma lei para mudança de gênero pelo sistema público, porém é feito uma triagem de análise da saúde, e psicológica. O que mais é solicitado pelo sistema público gratuito são operações do coração, dos olhos, e para emagrecimento, bariatricas. O ponto que em que a política direita é efetiva e eu concordo e na área da segurança pública, uma vez que o Brasil é historicamente um país de violência, e corredor do tráfico internacional. O rio de Janeiro , por exemplo é um campo de batalha de guerra civil. Os criminosos andam abertamente com armas militares. O que eu sou contra aqui no que se fala de esquerda é as pautas exageros progressistas ideológicas anti-cristãs. Os Brasileiros são extremamente simpáticos ,principalmente com estrangeiros. Conversam com todo mundo , nós temos um costume de dizer em saudações Deus te abençoe.
Haven't read the book but she needs to deal with her misrepresentation of Gavin Ortlands position on global warming. Basham has terribly twisted his views.
I would like to see her on Gavin's podcast.
Most of her points are right on. Many church attendees are often misled by infected doctrines coming from leaders whose salvation I truly question. I watched Ortlund's response to her criticism of him in the book and he makes a valid point that she mischaracterized his views and should have talked to him before including him as a "Shepherd for Sale". As someone who has watched a lot of his videos, I believe he is a trustworthy man of integrity. I hope this can be rectified. We need doctrinal purity and unity in the church.
No. This book is not about HIM. He is fine. And no one needs to be affected in any way in choosing to watch his videos as usual. Power gaming is an ugly cultural ethos but is not ethical. It's just self-righteousness.
I don’t know a lot about Gavin Ortlumd but Beckett Cook had him on and really likes his teaching so that made me think he’s probably pretty solid… I bought, read and truly appreciate Megan’s book in a big way but also wish it was qualified Gavin was not “for sale “… there’s a difference between being sincerely wrong and being bought & paid for
We completely underestimated our adversarys. While we were trying to be kind and not hurt anyone’s feelings, they had a planned agenda to infiltrate churches and spread their ideology. And it has worked. We all need to become activists for Christ and what is right and what is truth!
CIA
Christians have been taught we have to keep our morals private, while radicals have no qualms pushing their twisted values on society. The idea that the public square is and must be neutral is a myth.
Alisa you need to watch the video just released by Gavin Outlund responding to Megan comments on him. I am disappointed with the approach of the book if he is accurate. For Megan not to contact people she is writing about does not sound like good journalism. Just wanted you to know because we really like your channel.
@@Doug-jf5hx Exactly. Megan strikes me as someone who thrives on being incendiary.
That is a good point but Gavin makes the point that she was not accurate and misquoted him. We should not have that in the body of Christ.
@@Doug-jf5hx Just to put him under the heading of “corrupt pastors,” alone, is outrageous!
Taking care of God's creation is not a sin and we should do our best to do so.
I think you should actually read the book before commenting, since it is clear you don't understand. She wasn't saying we shouldn't take care of the Earth.
Basham never said it was a sin. Who’s “misrepresenting” who here?
Have you ever heard of Boyan Slat?
He’s cleaning up the ocean in a big way.
A wise man once said, "if anyone tells you that its not about the money, rest assured: ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!" Also, if they say its not about politics---IT"S ALL ABOUT POLITICS!"
Megan is out promoting her book. We definitely have to follow the money there.
@@lauralaforge558 So how come left gets a pass when they do the same thing?
@@impalaman9707 tu quoques fallacy?
@@impalaman9707how does the left get a pass?… WHAT EXACTLY aren’t incidents that make you say that?
@@lauralaforge558 🙄 Go ahead; trust the left.
While I don’t disagree with the central idea…I have a hard time trusting anything that’s being said in this video due to the clear misrepresentation of Pastor Ortlund and the overt political lens through which the church is being viewed. Any political influence on the church is abhorrent, right, left or centre. Let the gospel and only the gospel be lifted up.
I appreciate Megan Basham's work, however, she really needs to publicly retract her false accusations made against Gavin Ortlund in the book. Please see his video correcting the record.
This. Thank you.
Seconded
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
@@NotToday-gv7qn explain why you’re siding with Megan
@@NotToday-gv7qn You really have picked the wrong side of the issue here. And, you are doing it out of ignorance.
PLEASE, PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR PASTORS!
This pastor doesn’t preach environmentalism but I personally live good ecology.
@@user-rj8fv6fl9eWe should all do the same. There is a difference in clean air or water and environmentalism and eco-religion.
I have been for 50 years
@@user-rj8fv6fl9eYou can be a good steward of your community without swallowing the Marxist agenda. The environmental movement is based on lies and scary predictions that have never come true.
Yes, pray the pastors get a proper job.
This is clearly one of the most important and consequential interviews I have heard in some time. Christianity and culture has been a concern of mine since as an undergrad driving to hear Dr. Francis Schaeffer address "How Should We Then Live?" Now having served as a pastor, missionary, denominational exec and Christian college and seminary prof, my concern is even greater. Thank you Megan, for your courage, dedication and scholarship to confront some critical issues in the church. The ramifications are great. Thanks, Alisa for providing a much needed platform. Stay the Course.
Speaking of Schaeffer, it's a shame we can't return to our Schaeffer era view of caring for the environment. In Schaeffer's “Pollution and the Death of Man: The Christian View of Ecology," He established a pro-environment position for Evangelicalism which lasted about two decades. All that changed when the Republican party turned against everything "green," in its alignment with corporate interests, and Evangelicals towed the new line. So now we aren't free to care about these issues without being called out as unwittingly influenced by the leftist agenda. Yes the EEN is a product of the left and supported by it. But is that a reason to fear sincere concern for our environment? We can disagree on the science but we don't need to devour each other over this. It is a Romans 14 issue. Very different than sexual ethics.
Yes, do. The Daily Wire would be an excellent place to start. This book is attenpting to close the minds of right leaning believers. Its reactionary and the responses, the fruit bears this out. Look at Megan and her followers' social media interactions with Neil Shenvi. She accuses people of tactics and being slippery rather than just answer the charges.
This is going to make a huge mess.
The mean girl, popularity contest "tactics" are on full display. This isn't apologetics. it's an ideological campaign that even people on the right can see is not based in truth.
In the 70's, my father, a conservative pastor, already knew that Christianity Today was only sort of Christian.
I often read Christianity Today as a kid in the 70’s ( I was definitely a nerd 😂). I remember thinking this must be a different “Christianity” than the one I know. 😔
I remember going to a Evangelical Church when I was 16 with a girlfriend and her family. First of all I thought it was weird that she was 16, her stepmother was 17 and her little brother was a little over a year old, and her dad was 52. Secondly, the family was very religious, only Christian music, and they church they went to had no cross, it was a huge sunshine that represented the sun of God. I was very uncomfortable.
It’s only sort of Fundamentalist. It is broadly Christian, as its name indicates. It is not “Fundamentalism Today”, and Fundies have always critiqued it.
How does The Daily Wire compare?
@@I_Art_Laughing Good point! It’s a right wing POLITICAL pundit opinion news channel. The star (Ben Shapiro) is sharp as a tack, but is NOT a Christian. No Christian should be taking their talking points from politically motivated news sources like the Daily Wire. (Even if we agree with them politically) News agencies aren’t any kind of God-ordained covering for church leaders. This is SO upside down!
Gavin Ortlund does not deserve the criticism he received in this book. Using him as one of the first examples of Progressive Pastors in the book is problematic. He is incredibly faithful to Scripture and study and outside of one video where he was taken out of context on one topic, he doesn't fall into the Progressive camp at all.
It's a very unfair slight against a very faithful servant. I'm sure Megan will be incredibly reluctant to retract her statements in this book that she is trying so hard to market, but if it wasn't 'about the money' for her, she would at least be willing to address this issue with Gavin publicly in some way, shape, or form.
That said, I will agree that it is one thing to admonish fellow believers to be excellent stewards of the earth - not being wasteful and avoiding toxic products when much simpler ones are completely adequate, but yet another for Christians to be encouraged to advocate for an environmentalist agenda. There is a very fine line there, so I can understand Megan's desire to stand firm.
Perhaps both parties and Christianity, itself, would benefit from a public discussion to resolve this issue. It has been said that 'truth unites' and I think that Chriatians will strive for both.
Both sides will never agree. Cultural Marxism advocates statism?
Shameful treatment of Dr. Gavin Ortland. I pre-ordered the book, but was able to cancel my purchase after seeing him defend himself. There are sellouts. But after seeing her treatment of Dr. Ortland, one wonders how true the rest of the book is.
Maybe you should have read it to see if he represented what she wrote correctly and in context? He is doing a good job of dissuading people from reading it and discerning for themselves. Interesting….
Sad you didn't confront reality.
Just wanted to add further disclaimer that Megan has misrepresented Pastor Gavin Ortlund rather overtly; I wonder if it's not too late for her to remove this from her book in order to refrain from publishing such slander and damaging the witness of any true accusations she may have better evidence for.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Listen to his video on Climate Change. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
Would Megan talk with Gavin Ortlund? I believe she seriously misrepresented him. It makes me question all her representation since she appears to have wrongly accused someone. The title of the book implies anyone mentioned has been paid off ohas taken money. That's not true. The truth...it's out there somewhere. Who will represent it? "Thy word is truth." Regarding all others, be careful.
I join the others asking that you challenge Megan on her claims about Gavin Ortlund. He made a convincing response video which, in my mind, makes it hard to trust other conclusions or claims in her book.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
It's true. You need to really watch out for those genuine people seeking truth, unity, clarity, and common ground. Don't listen to them.
It is really sad how she misrepresented, possibly deceptively so, Pastor Gavin Ortlund. I don't agree with Gavin on everything, especially his views of Creation. But I am a huge fan of his ministry.
He is spot on in so many other areas, and he is so genuine. Is is very sad how she has defamed him.
Did Basham interview PRIVATELY the shepherds she claims are "for sale"?
This is NOT how the Bible directs us to address problems with other believers.
"Christianity Today" has been leaning progressive for years, sadly.
You are not alone. We notice.
I've been progressing lean. Really lean now.
Christianity Today has never been a fundamentalist mag. It has always leaned evangelical. You don’t seem to understand what leaning progressive actually means, or where the center is.
@@chaddonal4331 Disagree, it's clearly trending mainline. On creation, race, and the environment most obviously.
Ms. Basham toes the line of lying, if not outright grifting. Please look into her claims independently (Ortlund for example)
agreed. i think most of us agree with a lot of what the author wanted to say, but her method really hurts her credibility.
This. Thank you for speaking up.
I did! Megan was not lying. Never listening to Ortlund again. Thanks for the heads up!
Ortlund is a big eva hack.
@@NotToday-gv7qnyou mean the only video he's done on it out of hundreds of videos on other subjects? The one where he said belief in the truth or falsehood of it shouldn't be used as a litmus test for whether someone has a true, saving faith? The one where Megan had to take and chop up his sentences to quote them because if she included a full sentence it wouldn't say what she wanted it to?
That video?
I suggest you check out Gavin Ortlund’s helpful pushback
Why did she have Gavin Ortlund in her book??? Because of her misrepresentation of him, I'm now questioning her...
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
Misrepresentation is slander. Disagreement on a particular secondary or tertiary point doesn’t make someone a leftist progressive. The church needs to do better than this.
Amen. Assuming a litmus test for orthodoxy which exceeds sola scriptura or even any historical creed is a fundamental (and fundamentalist?) error. The Kingdom doesn't benefit from half truths and certainly not from false witness. God help us.
Amen. If this represents conservative evangelicalism I find myself honeless.
You can't be sharpened?@@jimyoung9262
So why isn't she being sued? She isn't bc she's telling the truth.
The church needs to "do better" on outing the people who are downplaying or accepting gross sins while elevating issues that are debatable at best
@@LM-mq2pj hi, friend. I don't know about her entire book, but we can say definitively, that she is not telling the truth in at least one instance in regard to a fellow Christian. The gentleman against whom she bore false witness is a humble and meek follower of Jesus and I highly doubt he would choose to bring suit against her. His video response to her was far more charitable to her than she was to him.
Please challenge Megan on her claims about Gavin Ortlund!
What specifically is false about her claims. He said what he said.
Her accusations of Gavin Ortlund are blatantly incorrect.
How are they incorrect?
@@irismetcalfe too much to communicate over commenting. He released a video detailing it today on his channel Truth Unites. It seems pretty overwhelming that she is simply incorrect in her assumptions or is blatantly lying about him. He released a video a while back about how Christians need to be able to talk about hard topics and in particular said that Christians should learn to discuss gracefully with each other in the midst of disagreement. Her conclusion based on that is basically that Gavin is pushing a liberal ideology of environmentalism (which he was not) because he is politically motivated (which he is clearly not) and is making it an issue of utmost importance (which he is not). I think to make the accusation that is is a pastor being pulled be strings and being politically motivated or following the money could not possibly be further from the truth and is really lazy of Megan. I also find it extremely ironic that she is accusing Gavin of being politically motivated while she is literally a writer for the Daily Wire, a transparently right wing media organization. I don't even mean that as a bad thing, like I'm right wing myself and will be voting Trump most likely, but come on Gavin is a pastor and a scholar of church history and has literally zero incentive to push a liberal agenda.
But the better answer to your question would be the actual response video he made.
@@irismetcalfe Do a bit of homework. Go watch Ortlund's climate change video, read what she says about him, and watch his response video. I don't agree with him on climate change (among other things) but it is totally unacceptable to misquote him the way she did. Selectively picking out someone's words to "quote" him as making a point that was the opposite of the point he was actually making? That is straight up lying.
@@irismetcalfe He clearly (and charitably, I might add) shows that she selectively quoted and misrepresented him. At best, terrible research. At worst, she bore false witness and had it published.
And your mindless defense is sad
Very disappointing that Alyssa Childers promotes this book. I will not be watching again because I no longer trust her to discern fact from lies.
It's hard to believe anything this woman says when she so clearly misrepresented Gavin Ortlund. She really owes him an apology.
Listened to Ortlund myself to see who was right. Go Megan!!! Never listen to Ortlund.
@@NotToday-gv7qn This is a really childish attitude.
Sentiments? Aren't you concerned that she misrepresented his statements?
"To not accept that consensus, (Ortlund says), is to buy into 'conspiracy and hoax'; it is a failure to 'take a responsible posture.'"
He simply never said that. That matters, Alisa.
Maybe Meghan made many good points in her book but unfortunately, her misrepresentation of Gavin Ortlund really makes her look bad
Please look into the false claims she makes about Gavin Ortlund in her book. Not good!
Disheartening and sickening. Criticize those who compromise on the gospel, don't slander those with minor disagreements who are faithful believers. In other words - beat and drive out wolves, not sheep. " But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another." This is just like how the rest of the world engages with each other. I'm tired of seeing this among brethren and sad that it's coming from this channel.
Friends don't let their friends get their theology from the Daily Wire.
I didn’t appreciate what she wrote about Gavin Ortlund, a total misrepresentation! I was surprised that she was on this channel and, disappointed…
Did you read the book? Or are you taking his representation in place of your own discernment after reading and considering yourself?
Sorry Childers, I'm leaving. Ortlund is a bastion and pillar of orthodoxy in a time of great upheaval. The fact that those on his own team have suddenly turned on him, and are now doubling down, is deeply unjust.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Its bizarre to me that so many Americans in particular can't hold nuanced perspectives and write people off if there's even a whiff of something that doesn't tow their ideological line. Gavin Ortlund my not share the same view as other christians about e.g. climate change, but how ignorant and ridiculous to dismiss him and his work.
The thing is, I actually think Meg is onto something substantial and her claims have real weight to them. But the choice to include Gavin Ortlund of all people is truly and genuinely baffling. It’s like writing an exposé about progressive biases in media and choosing to include Alex Jones of all people. It just doesn’t prove your point and confuses everyone.
If you watch his videos on climate change, you will see he has many progressive narrative-driven views on the issue. It does prove her point, specifically on him. Zero discernment.
@@andrewcoleman492 He made one video about climate change. He put his view forward and was transparent about his position and how he got there, but was insistent that this isn’t a salvation issue and that Christians should be doing research into climate change and coming up to their own conclusions based on their informed research. That’s it. That’s all he said.
Megan’s book made it sound like Ortlund is DEMANDING that ALL Christians MUST come to HIS EXACT CONCLUSION or else their literal SALVATION is in question. And that’s just a blatant misrepresentation of Gavin’s views.
For the record, I disagree with Gavin Ortlund on the climate change issue. But I still think his open demeanor and plea for Christians to just do more research and come to their own conclusion (whatever that conclusion may be) is a very normal and fair encouragement. Megan could have said, “Oh look, here’s a prominent evangelical who believes in climate change. That’s interesting and somewhat unusual.” But instead, she made this hyperbolic exaggeration of Gavin’s position as a brainwashed liberal who thinks that everyone who doesn’t believe what he believes about this issue isn’t a true Christian. And that’s a misrepresentation, pure and simple.
Hope this helps.
@@andrewcoleman492 Gavin Ortlund has only made one video on climate change. His message was basically, “Hey, here’s the conclusion I’ve come to based on my research. I think more Christians should do their own research and come to their own conclusions, whatever that conclusion may be. But this isn’t a salvation issue and whatever conclusion you come to, you can still be a good Christian. Just look into it for yourself.”
And then Megan’s interpretation of Gavin’s video was that he had been a brainwashed liberal who was insisting that all Christians need to come to his conclusion or else their salvation may be on the line. That’s very obviously not Gavin’s message in that video. So Megan completely misrepresented Gavin. Hope this helps.
@@andrewcoleman492 Gavin’s message is that climate change isn’t a salvation issue and that Christians should come to their own conclusions. Megan’s representation of Gavin is that he demands that all Christians agree with his conclusion or else their salvation is in question. Because this was not at all what Gavin said, Megan pretty blatantly misrepresented Gavin. Hope this helps.
@@McGheeBentle She did not say that Gavin said it is a salvation issue specifically. She quoted him as saying it is a "gospel issue". Which he said. He also said "If you're pro life, you should be concerned about climate change." Equating the two. He also derided christians for being simpletons and dismissing science and encouraged people to put in the work for themselves and do their own research. (Emphasizing how big of an issue he believes it to be. Basically agreeing with every climate alarmist). It's pretty shocking how people jump to defend him when his own words and beliefs reveal who he is. Hope this helps.
She needs to publicly apologize to Gavin Ortlund for clearly misrepresenting him. I have no reason to trust what she wrote in the rest of the book after seeing the foolishness she included in chapter one.
Uh, no she does not. Right now on “X” are all of the videos put up in the last 24 hours where Gavin has stated the crazy.
As a pastor, I appreciate the discussion. Thank you, ladies. Stay the course. 😊
I’m 66 and back in the 80’s I subscribed to Christianity Today. In the 90’s I started seeing articles peppered here and there that was more left leaning. I’m amazed that so many people are just now realizing the bent
When I started reading it in the mid 2000s it was still solidly orthodox, just for a few years. Then they started considering other perspectives. How the mighty have fallen...
I saw it back in the 80s. I asked my Bible school prof and he said, “You are catching that? You are correct. “
Keep up the faithful and good work. All of the receipts about Gavin are now up on “X”. All of the videos where he has said this stuff. Megan was and is right
Please address the slander of Gavin Ortlund in this book!
I'm sure many people would respond positively if Meg publicly apologized to Gavin Ortlund.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter if she apologizes. Her book is out there, you can't take that back. She can't pull down her book as if it were an article on Daily Wire.
She doesn't need to apologize for properly truthfully representing Ortlund the Wolf
Ortlund is not to be trusted
Considering how Basham outright slandered Gavin Ortlund, I'll have nothing to do with this book. She needs to repent.
Having not to read her book, i dont want to jump to any conclusions, but at least from Gavin Ortlunds defense of himself its seems that her book is slanderous
@@maryphoenix5414 read the book for yourself before you slander her
Ortlund deserves no one's trust
After hearing more reviews of this book, it would seem that it is full of half truths, manipulative tactics and downright lies by Basham. Her work on Covid is probably the best and most well cited, but there is a lot in there just sowing division. It's one thing to call out Francis Collins and David French, but Gavin Ortlund? Absolutely ridiculous.
The one thing you are right about: This is indeed a "watershed moment", and you are sacrificing your integrity. Well, at least you're finally transparent.
^DEMONIC. Don't be fooled by wolves who come in sheep's clothing and ravenously tear at the truth! Even the elect can be deceived, and it's especially through counterfeits like this!
Watch Gavin Ortland's response to Megan's write-up about him in her book. According to Gavin, she is being more than unfair. Any story sounds true until the other side is heard.
I popped onto the comment section to write a defense of Gavin. No need, i see that is already covered extensively...
David French has connections in Williamson County TN. His brother in law sits on the Wilco school board, and until recently was the VP of Govt relations at Pfizer Josh Brown. French’s wife Nancy’s sister, Mary Kate is a never Trump Republican that is also supporting the D5 congressional primary challenger, Courtney Johnston who is all about the LGBTQIA++++ agenda over the incumbent Andy Ogles. The establishment republicans in Williamson county are doing their level best to manipulate and gaslight those who would look to the grassroots who are the populist conservatives in Wilco.
Wonder if he has any connection to Brent Leatherwood, the SBC ERLC head who’s also a woke rino that’s is trying to run cover for the Covenant School mer-derrer.
Even Neil Shenvi, who is very much in the very conservative camp and an author, is calling out the misquotes and errors in the book.
As a long time listener of the Alisa Childers podcast I think the interview with Megan was troublesome. I have listened to a few different interviews with Russell Moore and David French and I think both of these gentlemen are far from being classified as progressive Christian. This podcast was somewhat propaganda. Alisa you are better than this. You should interview Moore and French and hear their responses to your concerns. You might have a different perspective.
If the teachings she objects to are contrary to primary, salvific teachings, then I support this. But climate change is not that. I question her ability to, with humility and kindness, address these issues whether primary, secondary, or tertiary. We don't need more bullies in the church.
There is no way you can seriously argue that she did not misrepresent Gavin’s views in her book. If she had merely used him as an example of a Christian leader who promotes climate change activism there would be no controversy. But that’s not what she did.
Her misrepresentation is in her account of *how* or in what way he argues for climate activism. She presents him as saying you must agree with the scientific consensus on climate change or else you’re being irresponsible and not loving your neighbor. But that is absolutely NOT what he actually said and that has been thoroughly demonstrated numerous times now.
Claiming he said something he demonstrably did not say, as Basham did in her book, is the textbook definition of misrepresentation.
To continue arguing her characterization of him was fair or accurate is to either completely miss the point of the argument or to be stubbornly, objectively, incorrect on the point.
I'm really sorry to find that after watching your interview with Megan, AND buying her book (haven't read it yet) that she may not have done the deep dive research she claims. Alisa, I don't expect you to be able to fully vet every guest, but I do trust you as far as who you give a platform to. I also watched Becket Cook interview her. it's really a shame to wonder if the entirety of her book can be trusted. So far, I only have heard about Gavin Ortlund, but it seems she should have contacted him directly - Christian sister to brother - which would have been biblical.
@chert2380 Agreed. Megan's criticism of Gavin is misleading at best.
Becket seems to have taken down the interview from his page in light of this debacle.
@@keepclimbing2015 Well, in my opinion, it probably would better for Becket Cook to keep up the Megan Basham interview on his channel, but then invite Gavin Ortlund to come on his channel to talk about theological triage.
Megan Basham misrepresentation of Gavin Ortlund is blatant.
Alisa the same way you are concerned about Christianity becoming progressive should be the same when Christianity becomes all about politics.
Despite all the 'eesearch and receipts ' Megan still manages to misrepresent Gavn Ortlund in a way that makes me question her integrity and credibility.
Francis Collins was used in the English Alpha course for a long time. I had brought his hypocrisy to the attention of the Alpha course leaders from Holy Trinity Brompton in 2022 and was completely ignored by this British evangelical ministry.
I've had concerns about Alpha for years. Comments such as, I was born Christian and alpha confirmed that for me 🙄 indicate that it is not producing true fruit.
Also, HTB has decided not to part ways with Canterbury after the vote to approve blessing of same sex unions when others in London did separate. They are on the slippery slope.
Really disappointed seeing you platform an author who deliberately misrepresents her opponents when the point out her sloppy quotations of them. Really a bad look all around and 0 discernemnt
Alisa, by promoting Megan's work, you are unknowingly bearing false witness again Dr. Gavin Ortlund, a faithful brother.
One thing is to have "receipts". Another thing is to use them fairly, not cutting and twisting parts of the "receipt" to put words on the mouth of another person that he never said. Sister Megan did this with brother Gavin's words. And it's WRONG.
I'm a farmer NOT USING NITROGEN IS SUICIDE ,
Can you expand on this? Do you use nitrogen fertilizer?
@@JesusistheonetrueGod All fertilizer is nitrogen. Cow manure has nitrogen. It is simply a requirement for growing plants.
@@fadmacat Interesting, this may explain why my plants are dying off. I planted about 47 trees and 4 of them are dead.
😂😂😂
I’m so disappointed in your response Alisa. I no longer feel I can trust your instincts. Gavin Ortlund is one of the most measured and gracious people on the internet and I have learnt so much from him. I think he has been completely misrepresented and you owe him an apology. This is very very poor form.
“You must not spread a false report. Do not join the wicked to be a malicious witness.”Exodus 23:1
Deliberately spreading lies about a brother in Christ is sinful! It harms the testimony of the Body of Christ, and paints a poor picture of the body of Christ to the world. We all have sinned, and Christ’s grace is sufficient for all sin, but repentance is necessary! Basham’s book should be revised, but a public apology should be in order at the very least.
Bashum is the exact thing she is insulting in her book. See the two quotes below.
Megan Bashum cares about Christians because they are “America’s most powerful voting block.” “You can consistently count on evangelicals to be the most conservative voting block.”
Trent Horn: “It’s hard to tell the difference between left-wing authoritarian communism and right-wing authoritarian fascism. In theology, something similar happens with far-left liberal Christians and far-right political Christians. They look the same because they care more about what Christianity can do than whether Christianity is true.”
Bashum puts politics before religion. She views conservative points (not Christian points) as litmus tests of faith. She is what she insults.
I feel like right now. God is calling out the church from within the so-called church.
I agree but with the caveat that the fundamentalist right is just as bad as the woke liberal left.
Come out of her and be separate
@@corex72 I think you mixed that up from how you meant it? Your comment makes it seem like God is calling out genuine believers by false believers?
But, I think that could be the case with Ortlund and Basham. The “so-called church” (Basham) is calling out the genuine church (Ortlund). And the so-called church is demanding adherence to their creed (that all must deny climate change and that vaccines are evil). Anyone who disagrees with them on their creed cannot be Christian.
Conservative political choices are not synonymous with conservative theological stances. Basham equates the two. They ought not be equated. Otherwise, the GOP is to evangelicals what the magisterium is to Catholics
@@coltonmoore4572 nope, not what I meant. I don’t think you’ll get it.
@coltonmoore4572 it's ironic that's its exactly the opposite, and Megan did actually call out evangelicals who were paid by secular organizations for their influence in evangelicalism over vaccines and climate change are a requirement for Christians. Even excluding the Ortland controversy that he's raised a sure ruckus over and is the only thing anyone is focusing on.. Are you joking?
This book does not deserve the support of someone as wise and thoughtful as Alisa. Good people are maligned in this book.
I was confused by the book’s characterization of Dr. Ortlund and then realized why after watching his response/looking at the sources. It’s sad that the desire to be “discerning” has been manifest as slandering (or at least mischaracterizing) a brother.
I sure hope you don't start down the road of having people on your podcast who bash others with so called solid evidence they have researched. I have no desire to read this woman's book. I disagree with most all she said up to 3/4 of the way through, after which I stopped the podcast. Alisha I will have to stop tuning in if this is the turn you are taking. Not everything 'progressive' is wrong. Not everything 'conservative' is correct. Many times greed and power turn good to bad...and selfishness and self-centeredness disguise themselves as individual rights.
Spoken like a truly rebellious progressive! 😂
Alisa, you need to investigate some of these claims Megan is making, especially about Gavin Ortlund, they are erroneous.
“It’s worth asking: If we can’t trust her with the basic facts, why should we trust her with the interpretation of these facts?” - Warren Cole Smith, _Which Shepherds Are For Sale?_
Someone sent me that review of the book and I thought it was incredibly off and misleading!
I don't know why people would trust someone who would write a review like that --it was total gaslighting.
Megan egregiously misrepresented Gavin Ortlund. Shame. she lied about him at the beginning of her book, what does that mean for the rest of the book.
She has receipts? That true of what she said about Gavin?
Thankful for this bold Christian lady using her voice.
Ironic that so many pastors don't have the courage to do so so God is calling on lay men and lay women to step up and speak.
It is the job of the pastor to equip the saints. The laypeople SHOULD be more involved and willing to call others to repent. Paul didn’t just chastise the leaders of the Corinthian church, but everyone who knew about the scandal.
As a member of the grassroots here in TN I beg to differ on the masks, with both the schools and the churches. We DID have way more going on here than a “red state” should have. My kids were 3 of about 600 kids in their school that got an exemption. In Williamson county in August of 2021 it was such an issue 2000 parents showed up to the school board meeting. They still masked our kids for an additional number of months. And then the churches, some were worse than others but ALL the churches save for a handful were going along with the nonsense. So I don’t know what church you attended, but to give the impression that much went on, is in error.
I appreciate both @truthunites and @alisachilders. But Megan’s take has made her lose credibility with me. Hopefully there can be some honest dialogue over this between yall.