The Enneagram: Harmless Personality Test or New Age Tool? With Alexa Cramer
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2023
- Today’s episode deals with all things Enneagram. The Enneagram is viewed by many Christians to be a harmless personality test that can help us with our relationships with God and others. But is there more to it? In today’s episode, Alexa Cramer joins the podcast to discuss the origins of the Enneagram, it’s influence in the church, and it’s subtle promotion of the false self/true self identity categories that Enneagram coaches (even the Christian ones) promote. Some Christian coaches try and harmonize the Enneagram with the gospel, but Alexa demonstrates how they are often influenced by the heretical teachings of Richard Rohr. Even if you have already rejected the Enneagram, this episode is jam packed with important info you don’t want to miss!
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Discernment is not knowing right from wrong. It is knowing right from what sounds good but actually isn’t.
I like the definition! Deception can happen to any of us.The Holy Spirit has stopped me from trusting enneagram and automatic writing. We should also compare all things to scripture.
well said!
I used to be so into the enneagram when I was deep into new age spirituality. All it ultimately did was contribute to idolizing and obsessively thinking about "my identity" along with mbti, astrology, human design, and my mental health slowly but surely went downhill. I've never been happier since finding my identity in Christ as a child of God.
Amen! God's grace is sufficient but goodness, it's AMAZING and transformative! ❤
@@AbidethForever it really is!
Great job. Watch out for empathy too. Empathy is a sneaky way to violate the emotional boundaries of others to build our identity.
Yes, good point regarding empathy! @@lkae4
Hello 👋 how are you doing today? I hope 🤞 this year brings happiness, peace and love all over the world 🌎 I’m originally from Canada 🇨🇦 grow up in Fort Worth Texas, currently living in Key West Florida. Where are you from if i may ask?😊😊❤😊
the worship leader (at my ex-Word/Faith church) loves the enneagram.
when he asked my number, i replied “i’m kevin, nothing more or less.”
There are Christians today who think they can do automatic writing and calling it the Holy Spirit leading or guiding. No one wants to hear my thoughts about it when I tell them it's new age. I know God delivered me from new age thinking and philosophy and so God checks my spirit on discerning things like that, but it's like no one knows God can and has delivered me or anyone from it.
That’s what I call them! I get checks in my spirit that leads me to further research as I pray for further discernment
It’s disturbing, really. This isn’t how the Holy Spirit communicated to people in Scripture. In fact, it’s not even how Scripture was written! But occult practices have been infiltrating the church in waves to the point where outright divination is accepted. The Holy Spirit does NOT communicate with us the way demons do! It blows my mind that Christians are falling prey to this.
A so-called Christian friend gave me a book on automatic writing and as I began reading the forward The Holy Spirit cried Stop! I have told the friend this is satanic but he thought it harmless and of the Holy Spirit.
“New Age” is trigger terminology. We’ve worn it out.
Try starting the conversation with a question. Listen to understand, not to respond.
Lead them continually to the Word. “What does God say?” Is my main question. Their answer gives me a navigation point. Conversation flows better in the approach.
Selah57. Good point as far as how you start the conversation👍🏻
I became saved after 15 years in new age only to land in a church where the pastor’s wife and many other leaders were using the Ennegram. Of course, as I continued attending the church, I learned there was also a lot of NAR, mysticism, deliverance ministry, etc. going on. It’s crazy how prevalent false teachings are nowadays. We really have to pray for discernment and study God’s Word for ourselves.
If you read the new testament and just notice how many times Jesus delivered people and told us to do the same, you'd see it's not deception. I saw that John Mac Arthur is having a $299 seminar on Cessation. Nearly $300 to persuade people God doesn't do things anymore.
I was just saved and found a church that held a womens group that focused on the Enneagram. In my gut it felt just like the world i left. I used to do zodiac charts for people. Same thing. I left that church.
It doesn't seem to me that the Enneagram leaves room for becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus. It's just a matter of becoming your "true self." A diabolical lie.
Hello 👋 how are you doing today? I hope 🤞 this year brings happiness, peace and love all over the world 🌎 I’m originally from Canada 🇨🇦 grow up in Fort Worth Texas, currently living in Key West Florida. Where are you from if i may ask?😊😊❤😊
@@RCGWho
yeah, nah. the bible references Jesus empowering the 72 to preach the gospel and heal the sick.
afterwards they reported that deliverance had occurred so, that wasn’t normative and even if you accept the disputed longer ending of Marks gospel has signs & wonders accompany the Apostles.
(not you)
I was introduced to the enneagram through a trusted christian friend and then in premarital counseling though our old church. Also Sandals Church in CA had a whole series on it relating to the bible.
I got obsessed with it as a method to try to “fix” us when things got rocky. I dove so deep I to the different theories, “true”representations, masking, tri-type, coaching etc. I got lost and had to take authority over the evil it opened me up to. I ended up thinking I had BPD and blaming everything on “my type.”
P.S. The Christian interpretation of the enneagram I was first exposed to is only surface level.
Only the Holy Spirit can convict and conform us to the image of Christ. Thank you so much for warning against this.
We had a women's group at church taught by a very gifted teacher. After teaching a class on the Christian application of the enneagram, she became so fascinated that she got "certified " in it, left the church and began teaching classes and counseling people based on it. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's a replacement for the Holy Spirit.
O4😊😊
Almost the same thing happened in the city where I live. This woman was a trusted Bible study leader and had written studies. I'm old...but the first time I saw her discuss the Enneagram on Facebook, I was taken back. I knew it was not of God. Many of my younger friends used it a lot and promoted it. This shocked me as I thought these were solid Christ followers. 😢
I think this is especially having an impact on those who have grown up in the church (popular for instance in the Bible Belt), because they have always believed themselves to be Christians. Those with a New Age background who have come to faith in Jesus can see this thing a million miles away! Those having always been in the church do not notice the sly deception.
I was drawn into the enneagram until I heard Marcia Montenegro explain the problems with it. One of the biggest being how time consuming it is to study and learn the enneagram - time you could be spending studying the Bible instead. The enneagram is at best a distraction from Christ, and at worst an active agent seeking to draw people away from Christ. Thank you Alisa for bringing more attention to this issue. I have been discouraged at how many Christians are buying into it.
Alisa, thank you so much for having me on. You have such a wonderful way of modeling for us how to interact with opposing ideas and worldviews without shaming or accusing people. We are the body of Christ working different parts of the body and none of us can do this alone - whether it's the Enneagram or something else, we all wander and need to be pointed back to Christ now and then!
What is the Enneagram
Thanks for speaking about this. I repent from the enneagram today. I now feel like it’s duping people with clever tricks. What is that book you mentioned? The one that speaks about these kind of tricks? I’d like to read it to educate myself more.
Alexa, what book were you mentioning that explains some of these mentalist techniques?
@@DaveRoberts308 @Hyorikatsu The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading by Ian Rowland :)
@@AlexaCramer Thanks so much.
This was a great conversation! I grew up in a hyper charismatic church that taught the law of attraction using Scripture, although I did not know until the last 10 years or so that it had its roots in new age. It prompted me to examine my beliefs and with the wonderful leading of the Holy Spirit, He showed me where I held false doctrines. I agree wholeheartedly that we must take these things seriously. They infiltrate the church and lead people into deception. Our church began promoting the enneagram and formed a study group using this tool, and we chose to leave that church. That’s how serious I take these things. I’m not going back into deception that God so graciously delivered me from.
Praise the LORD!
My former mega church teaches the enneagram. I heard a guest pastor say he was a “7” during a sermon. I asked another pastor about it and he said everyone on staff uses it and recommends it. He proceeded to tell me another staff member who I was familiar with was an “8.” I was shocked and disturbed. I researched further and sure enough there is a RUclips video of a meeting for the mental health community at the church. The video was of Bill & Kristi Gaultiere (Soul Shepherding, Journey of the Soul) teaching the enneagram to these members and assuring them that it’s origins aren’t dark and it’s perfectly safe and “all truth is God’s truth”. Some members expressed their concerns about the origins and the star pattern. The pastor’s wife comes on and tells them they don’t have to be afraid of it. It’s just a tool. Using the enneagram changed her life and marriage and she has experienced the “good fruit” it offers. They also teach contemplative prayer. I’m scared for my friends still at the church.
Alexa, I know that feeling of wondering what is going on while sitting in a room full of people in love with the enneagram. I recently sat in on a workshop at a conference for Christian counselors that discussed how useful the enneagram can be when used with your psychotherapy clients. I attended the workshop merely to gather information and to investigate what and how therapists and counselors were using it in their practices (as I had already watched both Alisa's talk with Marcia Montenegro and Melissa Dougherty's videos on the enneagram and knew it wasn't something I was interested in). Once the discussion started my discernment flared telling me that this was not something that was of God. However, I watched in bizarre fascination as about 80% of the workshop's attendees raised their hands that they were already using the enneagram in their personal and/or professional lives. And these were people whose theology seemed so sound! It was rather like watching an accident and I started wondering if I was the only one who understood the implication of those raised hands. I wrestled with whether or not to ask the presenter if they were aware of the enneagram's origins, but felt in my spirit that it wasn't the appropriate time. One thing I did notice is that the categories and traits all seem so generic, like looking at the Chinese horoscopes on the placemat at my local favorite Chinese restaurant or like fortune tellers or mediums. You can present as any of the traits or numbers on any given day. My concern is for those that don't understand the enneagram's origin as well as those that do but think it can be "redeemed" somehow. Something authored by "automatic writing" which was in turn created by channeling a familiar spirit cannot be redeemed. What you an Alisa are doing by shedding light on darkness is what we as believers are called to do so that those taken in by the enemy's deception can be informed and come to a place where the Holy Spirit can reveal the Father's truth to them. Thank you ladies!!
Was the conference a Clifton Strengths by any chance. I'm trying to see if anyone knows what that is all about. I've never heard of it but have the feeling it's going to be very similar to the enneagram teachings
4 years ago this enneagram was intoduced by the womens ministry.
I had something in my spirit say look into this. I was so stunned to find out the worldview origins of it. Sadly, when my husband and I wanted to address those issues. We were shut down and told, Maybe this isnt the church for you.😢
I hope you agreed that it wasn't the church for you!
What shocks me is there are pastors who promote this enneagram nonsense. My sister in law showed me that enneagram symbol and the first thing I saw was the pentagram.
From my first exposure , I was very UNCOMFORTABLE with it. There were things that lined up in the results in terms of traits. And at the same time it gave me the creeps and my peace was disturbed. And as a former psych major in college who genuinely enjoys research and data. Personally, think it's an entry way into the dark side like horoscopes, Ouija boards, and tarot cards. Lastly, it doesn't pass the validity test as a measurable and duplicable instrument--on top of just being creepy! 😏
I like what you said Alisa about allowing things to turn into idols. I have Christian friends who don’t want to listen when I try and graciously talk about the core tenets of Yoga. They just insist that’s not the kind of yoga that they do, thus it’s not harmful. I have come to the conclusion that if you’re not willing to do a little bit of due diligence and go to the Lord in prayer and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment, it’s likely become an idol in your life.
When I was a young student getting my master’s in counseling, this is one of the personality tests they taught us to use. I’m not sure if it was a variation- because there was no overt spirituality in the one we used- but now knowing its background, I’m shocked that any psychological training program would encourage something so weak & unscientific.
I’m now a stay at home mom, but if I ever return to counseling, this is something I won’t be using again (out of Christian conscience).
God made us in His image, as unique and individual parts of His body. I did the meyers-Briggs in college (2014), and as I read each of the 16 personality types I could identify aspects of myself in little bits of each.
It is very general, and like astrology, we all can relate to aspects, but I can’t be relegated to a boxed in personality type. This kind of thinking also disallows any personal growth, maturing, a change of heart and transformation to change from immoral behaviors.
Amen!!
I guess it could become like a diagnosis. When you get a psychological evaluation, and they label you "narcissistic" or "Bipolar", then it becomes much easier to blame your sin on your diagnosis, rather than taking personal responsibility and confessing it to God. "I can't help it--it wasn't my fault---it was my mental illness that sinned--not ME". Am I getting close to what this sounds like?
"Playing" with the enneagram is not at all in the same vein as being clinically diagnosed with a mental illness. People who are diagnosed with mental illness do not have any more propensity to sin than say someone who has cancer. I think to say people who have been diagnosed with mental illness or disease use that as a crutch for why they may sin is not really true. The enneagram is quite a departure from a clinical/medical diagnosis. So, no you are pretty off base. They are not the same.
@@rnbham39 But mental illness is not excuse for sin. Trust me--I've been the victim of someone who used their diagnosis as an excuse to sin, and even gaslit to the point of believing that it wasn't their fault, and they never said they were sorry!
I have a family member with mental illness, and he will NEVER TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY for his actions. No matter where does or how crappy he treats people, it's " not his fault" it's the mental illness. I finally cut all ties with him. He's full of drama and excuses and I'm done with it.
@@Kiki-th1wm Yeah, I know. And then they project how they are onto other people; "You're the drama queen---not me!"
@@rnbham39it actually is very much the same methodology. If you see a behavoir then diagnose it then thats exactly what psychology does.
Im in no way saying psychology has no merit. This enneagram just sounds like a poor copy. And yes many people go to a therapist to find ways to excuse their poor behavor. Mental illness is now an excuse for everything. Which only stigmatizes those who suffer.
Now a days you diagnose yourself off tic toc. Its also not true that people without mental illness are just as likley to sin as those with. If someone (man or woman) is an abuser the likley hood of drug addiction or personality disorder is very high. Much higher then the broader population. A person with poor emotional control most likley would hit, emotionally abuse or black mail, steal money (dont care if youre married) or cheat sexually or emotionally.
That being said anyone can use anything as an excuse for bad behavor. I could use the Bible to beat my children if I had children. Men have used the Bible to treat their wives like children or abuse their whole family.
If I use a number chart and say x number is why I am the way I am thats a diagnosis.
Me! I'm a full time homemaker and homeschool mom that is passionate about Apologetics ❤ it's awesome to see other mamas that are as well.
There is a great book that supports what is being covered here on this video; "Richard Rohr and the Enneagram Secret" by Don and Joy Veinot and Marcia Montenegro" if others want hard copy.Thank you for covering this dangerous of this belief that has worked it's way into the church!
To the question you discussed about addressing people who claim the enneagram helped them..
Something I realized after going through tons of reflection and self help and even the enneagram (which did help me feel like I wasn’t just being crazy in my instability) while I was battling depression, anything that points us inward instead of upward can quickly lead us to idolize ourselves (self love movement, anyone?).
Reflecting and self-assessing is so important, but we should always look to God for direction.
I am not a regular viewer but I heard Alisa has excellent content. I noticed in the background "Live Your Truth" (book) and I thought "oh no, this can't be! Please tell me this lady does not ascribe to this nonsense!" Anyway, I looked it up on Amazon and there I saw the subtitle "and other lies" and breathed a sigh of relief. 😄
Sadly I heard someone else tell how he pointed out the origin of the enneagram and those who were into it thought that the origin was irrelevant.
My daughters ninth grade teacher had all her students do the enneagram to figure up how to put them in groups based on the results. How crazy is that?!
I didn’t really know what the enneagram was, but had heard it mentioned on my Christian radio station recently. I searched their archives and found it had been mentioned as far back as 2018. After listening to this conversation, I sent this, the earlier one and another RUclips video on it to the station in hopes that they will listen and stop mentioning it. This station has over 1 million listeners. I shudder to think what kind of “poison” that has spread over the last 5 years.
What radio station? If you don’t mind me asking.
Bottom line - we all have a 'self-love' problem, so it's easy to fall for "tools" that allows us to make love to ourselves all day long.....
Wow, so true!
A week ago, a friend recommended me a book by Geri scezzaro (?), and I was listening to it until it hit a chapter about enneagrams.. and I’m like whoaaaa there mama! I stopped it, went straight to your physical book “live your truth” and now listening to your podcast! Great timing..
Yep, wife of Pete Scazzero, his church and teachings are now carried on by Rich Villodas ... a lot of Bible + other things
I was just about to write their names to the list Lol
And it should come as no surprise that Bethel Church is steeped in it.
What do you guys think about the Clifton strengths workshops? I will definitely not be participating, but the same ladies who recommended the emotional healthy books are getting involved with this now.
@@micheletisdale7467good question
Anything that “takes the place” of God is defined as anti-Christ. I’ve never heard of this but it reeks of spiritualism.
Thank you ladies for taking on these popular things and exposing them for what they are. That is our duty as really being children of God.
Thank you for your videos about the Enneagram. This infected an Acts29 church I was a part of a few years ago. They wouldn't listen to me. It was the cause of anxiety and demonic oppression in my life. It's all self-focused and not Biblical. We need God's means of grace - His Word and His Spirit to help us mature in Christ and not self-centered "tools for growth". I prayed hard back then that people would expose the truth about this evil tool that opens the door to demonic activity in peoples lives. I pray that many people will listen and repent for using this and avoid it if they haven't done it yet. I found peace after I repented. Thank you very much for posting this!
"Focus on what is TRUE rather than what is GOOD!" Thank you for that excellent reminder!
I’m staying in Idaho right now helping my daughter with her newborn for a few weeks. Her hubby led her into Eastern Orthodoxy and that’s how they are raising our grandchildren. A friend (also EO) brought us a meal and was asking all about whether I had my Enneagram done. Shocked to find out the EO are into this. Of course, I politely said I wasn’t into anything outside Biblical Christianity. Very short conversation after that.
I am Eastern Orthodox. The Enneagram is not something Eastern Orthodox are “into”… but you will find believers of all denominations who choose things in their personal lives that are not official teachings of their Church.
May the Lord bless and keep you.
You are wise Ms Weissguys. God bless your good looks.
All good things come from God.
I come from a new age astrology background and I would not touch the enneagram w a ten foot pole lol.
The Adversary doesn't have to change much to draw us into heresy...
This was fascinating. Thank you!
As general as yoga. Everything demonic has the face of "harmless".
RUclips suggested this podcast, I had never even heard of this! I will now subscribe to your channel, thank you for talking about this ladies!
Thanks for highlighting this topic. At my job I work with many who focus on Horoscopes and signs as a way of getting to know a person. After saying thier name and getting the other person's name, they'll quickly follow up with, whats your sign?
After my wife began being engaged in the Enneagram ideas, i began to notice some similarities between horriscopes and the enneagram. I have not fully jumped on board, possibly because, as Alexa piints out, I've spent a good amount of time studying the Trinity and trusting that He is my source and I have personality traits that can be helpful and harmful, but to put them into a box and assign me to them isn't necessarily helpful.
The bigger challenge will be engaging in conversation with my wife about this, and with others.
Thank you for continuing to put Truth out there. We are sheep in need of good shepherds and there are many wolves amongst us trying to deceive. May God continue to bless your ministry.
Re! z
When people ask me my sign I always say "The sign of the Cross." That ends the conversation.
That sounds so much like Eckhardt Tolle!!! The “pain body” like the false self that has resulted from your life traumas. This is just plain and simple New Age in yet another package.
The Enneageam feels exactly like a version of a Horoscope.. the enemy will use any tactic to distract
I totally agree...just another type of numerology...
Thank you Alisa for this information. My best friend of 35 years has been studying this under her and hubby's marriage counselor to work through a rocky marriage. She even sent me the books to "help" me in my marriage. There was just something about it that didn't ring true. Jesus was left out of the conversation.
I am sending her the links to your podcast as well as others mentioned. Thank you again for everything!
I discovered the Enneagram through Jenni Allen’s website. Research led me to the podcast with Marcia Montenegro which was an incredibly important episode!
Btw, Jenni had been on Ian’s podcast too.
Thank you, Alisa and Alexa! This was a wonderful episode!! Hopeful many folks will share this with pastors snd elders.
PS
I think Rohr has cancer currently. Definitely praying for him (to repent, primarily).
The first podcast I've heard of Alisa's was on the Enneagram with Marcia a few years back. Thanks for revisiting this topic. 👍
“Shimmering essence” makes me envision a freshly poured glass of cold Gingerale.
Russell Moore spoke at the Enneagram Summit this past April 4-7. More and more Christians who should know better are joining in.
Thank you for having this conversation and doing it graciously and without condemnation! I heard another interview recently (and even see stuff in the comments) that were very black and white but without the substance to back it up. You have both truth and grace in the two interviews you've done. I'm definitely someone who fell for this. I even took Beth McCord's training and became a certified coach but the pandemic shut things down so I never used it. Now I'm very grateful I never used it! I have had many conversations about it though and have talked to people about it. I knew there was some skepticism about it's origin but until I watched your interview with Marcia Montenegro who spells it out more clearly than anyone I've ever heard. Her experience, research, and no nonsense way of saying things is such a gift! I used it as a tool for growth as a person and even spiritually believe it or not! I was not replacing my theology, but I now see the danger and see how easily that could happen.
Sadly I think the church has left most people very ill-equipped to deal with very real human existence questions so people find ways to fill holes! We came out of a fairly legalistic background and then ended up in a church that now I see leaned way more progressive than I realized, mainly because they said the right things. We've also been through extensive "church hurt" after many years of full time church ministry, missions, and even Christian non-profit ministry work. I see now that I was reaching for something to help me make sense of things that happened to me. After multiple church/ministry leaders hurt me deeply, and allowed no path to reconciliation, I spent years trying to figure out how to move forward. And that is when it was presented to me by very close and trusted friends. I feel for it, and now I repent.
The Enneagram and other personality tests are really a means to secret knowledge. It's about truly understanding yourself and others in a deeper way. It goes all the way back to the garden and wanting more knowledge than we were meant to have.
Never even heard about it, until this. But I was thinking about many things that "work" but ultimately destroy. Crazy how we humans grab hold of all kinds of things, when all we really need is Faith in Christ.
The Enneagram concept reminds me of Astrology. I see it this way...If the Enneagram is "Christian", then it should be mentioned in Scripture. Not just mentioned but something that Jesus and the Apostles used. But it's NOT so therefore it ISN'T "Christian".
We must pray for not only knowledge, wisdom, and understanding but discernment, DAILY! And be as the Bereans and check Scripture to see if what is being taught lines up with God's Word.
I always have in mind "My people perish/are destroyed for lack of knowledge" and "we must not be ignorant of Satan's devices".
I don't want to believe any lies because I don't want to be deceived by my/our #1 enemy!
Thank you both for sharing truth.
God bless you! 🥰
Put up with me a bit, please. I am an old woman. I am 63 years old and have a grandchild ready to launch out into the world soon. Ladies, read Ephesians 4. Take it to heart! We are NOT to be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Stop behaving like teenage girls who just discovered some new game to play. Life is too short and we have much work to do. Spend your time in the word, in prayer, in ministering to the body of Christ, in raising your children, guiding your grandchildren in GOD'S WORD. You don't need these "trinkets". Thanks for being so patient with me and reading this. May the Lord continue to guide you and may you not quench the Holy Spirit who shudders at such nonsense. There are so many young women who look to you for answers. Be mature in Christ.
Thank you, Alisa and Alexa, for shedding light on this topic!
I was introduced to the Enneagram while on staff at a church 8-9 years ago. I’m thankful that the true Holy Spirit checked my spirit as a read a chapter that was distributed to our department. Bringing up the concern to leadership seemed to stop the staff member from continuing to sow it into others on our team.
Thank you for sheafing more light on this!
Please do an episode on muscle testing!!!!
Is this something that chiropractors do? My husband’s doc does weird mineral/crystal experiments to test his muscle strength.
Thanks for this discussion. I really appreciated how Alexa was able to demystify how this "works", as well as situating the use within a biblical worldview. "Please care about what is true." Thank you Alexa. Could you host Jay Mendenwaldt to talk about the science side of this? I think that would be a great addition to the Enneagram playlist.
And also many christians believe in muscle testing, which is also a new age practice.
I don’t know what that is
I had a Pastor who had our Women’s Team take this, so we would know our gifts & strengths.. I never felt comfortable.. I felt I was pigeon holed .. I never ended up taking the test, but two other gals on my team..
Thank you for talking about this topic! Very informative!
It is another New Age oujia board....
So glad that people are still talking about topic. I hope that all these videos help people.
PS...When my Womens Bible Study wanted to convince me the Enneagram was okay for Christians....
She sent me via text...
A two part podcast with Andy Stanley interviewing Ian Cron.
Ian Cron definitely was mentored by Rohrster.
It's so sad that bible studies can be filled with so much deception. We absolutely need bible studies but more importantly, we need to pray for discernment and wisdom.
In a spiritual formation seminary class I was introduced to the enneagram. Having a background in mental health and some understanding of personality tools and the requirements for standardization, it rubbed me the wrong way how the enneagram is presented as a personality tool. I looked deeper into it and I am so glad I came across Marcia Montenegro’s videos and books. The enneagram is a type of zodiac tool and I did not follow the teachers guidelines for assignment instead I shared information about the it’s lies in class discussion
Really great talk. So many people I wish would hear this and take it to heart. Idolatry comes in so many forms, not to mention all the other concerns.
This is such a great episode! Thank you!
This is so helpful, especially Alexa's humility and how she presented her history with the Enneagram.
Not long after I started attending a new church in my city, the ladies began discussing their "numbers" at a luncheon and then asked me, "What is your number?" Being highly sensitive to the occultic roots of New Age thought creeping into the church like a stealth bomber, I said, "I don't have a number."
It didn't take long to realize these ladies had no idea about the origins of the founder of the Enneagram. I began to do more research and then contacted Marcia Montenegro. She was very instrumental in where I took the information moving forward.
By going straight to the pastor, I was able to avoid any divisions among the ladies that may have arisen from my concern. The pastor was incredibly humble, kind, and open to everything that was shared. Eventually, the Enneagram left the pulpit and the women's ministry and was never mentioned again.
I'm thankful for people like Alisa Childers, Marcia Montenegro, and the people at Mama Bear Apologetics for taking the time to dissect such teachings in LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, and GENTLENESS.
Oops accidentally hit thumbs down. Didn't mean to do this. Sorry!
Love this!! Thanks for handling that so well and I’m glad it worked out so well in getting that occult system out of your church!
Grateful for wonderful "mature" and discerning believers who have helped so much along the way! @@christylynnhogan
Great job covering this topic. Yeah Alexa! 💜🙏🤓
This was sooo helpful!!! Thank you!!!
Have you done or could you do a video on the issues of true self and false self? It's something I've seen a lot discussed, especially in the Motivational/self-help/identity-focused side of Christianity. It seems to be related to our flesh and being a new creation, which is Biblical but the streams I see false/true self focused doesn't feel the same.
Thank you so much, your humility and apologetics (and soon your new music) has ministered much to me and my family.
The advisory is so cleaver. We need to get in the word and pray.
Thanks Alexa and Alisa!!
My grown daughter got into the enneagram and, curiously, I took the test. But, I told her that I believe, as Christians, our goal is to become more like Christ. To me, the enneagram keeps the focus ON ourselves and our personalities. We sure don’t need more of that! It’s not about us, it’s about Jesus!
Amen!
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, Alisa. There are so many Christian influencers that push the enneagram. Annie F Downs even has an "enneagram summer" part of her podcast series every year. I am sick to death of it and don't understand why people aren't more discerning with this.
Thank you for this. Keep pointing people to objective truth, the truth of God's word.
Also if someone asks about your eneagram number, I like to respond with the truth of God's word...
"I'm a 2:20... as in Galatians 2:20..."
Or
"I'm a 1:7... as in 2 Timothy 1:7. You can read more about that! It's fascinating!"
It has the same danger in it as any new age. t takes you away from relationship with god and persuades you into relationship with self instead. Then it persuades you your happy emotions are proof it´s true and your self sufices you.
I cant understand how could have I been in new age for so long. But when you know nothing but self you cannot see you are self obsessed.
Alisa, I think it was your first interview with Marcia on your podcast (late 2018, maybe?) that showed me how the raging popularity of the enneagram was to be avoided. I also have Marcia's book that someone mentioned in a previous comment, and I've read several articles on her blog about it. Her research and knowledge about the enneagram are eye opening.
I released a song about this called “A New Heresy”. The inspiration for the song and the album was initially inspired by watching Alisa Childers.
Thank you so much for this one. I also was introduced to enneagram through christians family, we even did courses together. I don’t know why I didn’t question the roots of it and feel very naive of that but I am very grateful that I came across your show today. Thank you very much for your so precious position statement.
I mean it's always been too much like numerology to me, so I've steered clear...glad to hear and learn about the history.
years ago I watched a video promoting the enneagram made by one of the professors at the Bible College that I had attended. In the video, this professor says that we are saved through Christ through the enneagram. I heard that and just about fell off of my chair! That was the moment that I realized just how dangerous the enneagram was.
Thank for important information on the ennegram...
I’m sure this episode is going to give us plenty of solid reasons to avoid it but number one, for me at least, is that everyone who uses it acts like they’re in a cult. It’s got serious cult vibes.
VERY HELPFUL , I would like to hear more from Alexa ( not the Amazon Alexa - I WILL listen to this vlog more than once VERY INSIGHTFUL
Automatic writing is how Sarah Young wrote JESUS CALLING!
Thank you. Someone gave me that book and I never got past the first two pages.
Jesus Calling is one of the things that started my journey to leave an unbiblical church. I had a new age past and when I became aware of the book I was shocked. Then I found it on our church library. I started calling some of my female friends in church and found out everyone was loving it. I went to my pastor who thought it was no big deal, and his wife loved it.
Beautiful!! 😻
great stuff!
Seriously, I’ve never heard of this before…guess I’m blessed
Thank you sooo much for sharing all of this information, I knew there was something weird and wrong about this subject matter, I know some christians who really take this to heart. Its sad, i associate it with astrology and all of that , very manipulative and misleading. So glad this feeling wadnt just in my head about all of this!
Such a good episode, and so necessary for today. Thank you both.
Thanks for posting about this. It’s a big new age deception along with the mbti.
I don’t know how people can put so much stock into what is basically a personality quiz. It’s like running your life and making decisions and relationships/friendships based upon your zodiac sign. I’m grateful that the Lord has spared me from falling into stuff like that!
It is John 1 where John says but to all who believe he gave power to become children of God. The false assumption that all are children of God is one of the suppressed premises of the New Age.
I TRULY APPRECIATE this teaching sharing "JESUS LIGHT" in an area many Faith based believes have deceptively landed, I would ask for pray for the leaders of Family Life Today, Pastor Dave & Ann Wilson they share their "#" frequently and they will connect with their guests as well on their "#" I have phoned their program a few times in 2021 after I kept hearing them & guests refer to their "#" I asked the staff to please share links, resources I provided of the "true" the origin. I actually stopped supporting the program, but returned to listening this summer only to hear them refer to their "#" with a guest again 😢...my concern as I shared with their staff, this program is on BOTT radio a VERY conservative Christian broadcast, I can't bare to think the number of individuals they may have influenced to look into the enneagram or basicly gave a "seal" of approval on. I'm Soo THANKFUL I didn't fall in this trap, as I fell into NAR deception at a very tender age. LORD BLESS YOU, May your teaching spoken in love bring many to TRUTH. ❤🙏
Because DECEPTION is a main influence as we move into end times, it'so absolutely important to let Scripture be our guide. Allow the Holy Spirit to be the Teacher - He guides us into all Truth using the Scriptures.
Interesting. New info for me. I only recently heard of Enneagram.
That you Holy Spirit for guiding us to the truth !
Thank you for sharing this with us. Thank you for enlightening us about this very happening in our church. I prayed that I wouldn’t be deceived, a good friend who helped understand what people are taken in so lightly. We need rise up stand up for truth and search the scripture test what is truth. Like Apostle Paul told us to do.
I have never heard of it. Ain't that great!
I had a pastor who encouraged using the ennagram
i recommend reading of ENNEAGRAM THEOLOGY: Is it Christian by Renn Cherry who thoroughly discusses the book, its history, and how the ideas are definitely anti-Christian. JCB, Ph.D., Clinical Psychology
Hi love this podcast and hearing Alexa speak on Enneageam. Does anyone know the specific podcast from Alisha that Alexa refers to in this video?
Talking about the "Outs/Win-Wins" I like to call those Disclaimers. The Enneagram has LOTS of Disclaimers.
I had a dream where the church building was intact 23:29
BUT THERE WAS NO LIGHT ON INSIDE.
Roake is an insrument of darkness. " If the light within you is darkness then great is your darkness" indeed