Did Jesus Think He Was the Messiah?
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2024
- Megan asks Bart:
-What did the word “messiah” mean?
-Did it mean different things to different Jewish groups in antiquity?
-Do we know of any Jewish groups that thought the future messiah would die for the sins of others, and be raised from the dead?
-We’ve covered several times on the podcast that Jesus definitely did not fit the expected role, so most people didn’t think he was the messiah…did his followers view him as the messiah during his lifetime, or simply a particularly convincing prophet?
-Are the OT passages used to talk about a suffering and dying messiah actually talking about the messiah, or are they being taken out of conte-t?
-Why would their understanding of a “messiah” change so radically after his death?
-Did the followers of Jesus invent the idea of a suffering messiah?
-How do we begin to find out how Jesus saw himself? Does Jesus ever self-identify as a messiah in the gospels?
-When Jesus talks about being a messiah, is he being depicted as meaning a suffering messiah, or was he anticipating leading a military revolution?
-If Jesus thought he was the messiah…did he also think he was the son of god?
![Darren Waller - Who Knew (Her Perspective) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GytDjB8u6bM/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m just here for the Megan’s glasses and hair changes
She must drive her husband and children batty.😂
New woman and mother every day
As long as the glasses are symmetric I can live with it #OCD Oh my god, they're not!!!
I really like today's combo.
@@wollaminfaetterthey never are 😢😢
Ms Lewis is a accomplished scholar in her own right whom Professor Erhman is mentoring in her career. The recurring remarks if her dress and physical appearance is so pathetic. Women in this field have enough barriers to overcome: we can do without these insults. Perhaps try to refrain in the future.
Bart, doing a podcast, a daily blog, being a college professor, writing books, doing online courses, guesting on other podcasts, speaking on a cruise..................: Ha ha I'm too busy
We noticed, Bart! Take care of yourself!
You must be some ass hurt Christian?
"there's a mess here, but no Messiah."
- Monty Python fans get it. 🤓
As a german Monty Python fan I don't get it😂 But long live the cheesemakers!
@@mineneuryuu3623"Ein Messi - aber kein Messias” would be a worthy approximation methinks. 😅
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
“Only the true Messiah denies that he is the Messiah”
@@mineneuryuu3623 yes and He meant the maker of all dairy products.
BART has new mic or something?
Bart sounds like an AM radio disc jockey!
Does the mic have a youtuber voice setting?
Same mic as previous episodes, but sounds like he has allergies or bumped a setting that reduced all the treble in his voice.
Yeah same mic but new mix. Amp'd up the low end and dampered the mid-range. Sounds odd, especially since the high end wasn't changed much. He also sounds kind of sick, but the mix is more disturbing than the sickness
The proximity effect is the tendancy for low frequencies to be emphasized the closer to the mic you get. That SM7 is optimized for speech and is really much happier when it's 6-10 inches from your face.
Best hair color yet Megan!
I feel sorry for her hair. Must be so fried!
Always wonderful! I notice an upgrade in sound and camera work. Looks and sounds better! And the hair is terrific!
Brilliant as always. Love Megan’s hair. Few tips: sign up link should be in the description. You’d get more sign ups. Can we have the catch up at the end not the start, people want to get into the content and the topic they have clicked for, not 5 mins of personal stuff. Can we lose the annoying intersections with the voiceover? You should check the skip data on these sections. Regulars know what the sections are and they are pretentious to new listeners. Doesn’t add anything and requires the listener actively skip . Just some pointers to improve what is already an incredible show and absolute gift of free knowledge to the world.
...What happened to Bart's voice? It sounds younger.
Just new hardware I think; camera quality has also improved
New microphone is my guess
He sounds sick
He drank from The Cup of Christ?
Just a little sick. Thanks.
Long time fan and follower here. I really liked the change to Barts voice or microphone. My only other audio nerd complaint would be hopes that your channel could look into "De-esser" software - S's are very sharp and dang near take my head off - at least when listening on headphones or ear pods.
My ears will thank you! Nonetheless - love the content - keep up the great work!
Your opening comments explain why I decided to come watch a podcast or two before I started today :)
I am genuinely curious how Megan stays a Christian know what she knows. I’d love if Bart interviewed her
@@John.Flower.Productions Where does she claim that? I've been following this podcast from the beginning, and I've never heard her claim that.
@@Noneya5555 Her bio on X, I believe. Has her pronouns on there, too. Drives the chuds crazy.
@@John.Flower.Productions Sounds like you assume fundamentalism is the only "real" Christianity. Ms. Lewis is an Episcopalian and that denomination is and has been very accepting of the LGBTQ+ community. They elected their first gay bishop back in like 2003. She may be "flexible" in her faith, whatever that means, but in this regard she's just a normal, standard Episcopalian.
@John.Flower.Productions Nobody calls themselves "a queer". Only homophobes use it as a noun, as it's felt that using it as a noun alters it from one descriptor among many to an all-encompassing identity.
She likely feels that Christianity is essentially a call to love and respect all people, especially outcasts. If she does leave the church, hopefully she can retain that part, at least.
@@John.Flower.Productions A Christian is a follower of Christ. Plain and simple.
I have learned so much from listening to Dr.Ehrman's explanations of the gospels. I know some will not agree with his views but they are compelling.
At the very least, he doesn't proselytize
@@MichaelTheophilus906 Sounds like he struck a nerve.
😂😂@@RoosterNutz12
LMAO! It is interesting, I'd like to find a "believing" Bible scholar to explain how they find spirituality in the Bible through the lens of a scholar.
@@geico1975 check out the work of Richard Rohr.
Hey bart great video, it could be worth considering reconfiguring your microphone as it makes your voice sound quite low . Thanks for all your great videos ❤
Wonderful exposition
Good morning from Cambodia Megan and Bart . Thanks for the weekly podcast. I have been following and listening and enjoying every bit of it. I have a question for access to some your free training online. Thanks for your instructions
Allo
Great information!!
Who needs CS Lewis when we have Megan Lewis? 😁
😅
No one needs C.S. Lewis regardless.
Meegan..is awesome..A GREAT TEAM.. BART IS MY FAVOURITE BIBLE SCHOLAR HANDS DOWN. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR EFFORTS TO EDUCATE US!
@@therion5458He was a far more peculiar man than was evident at first glance. He renounced any belief in God after experiencing the horror of WW1, was essentially talked out of it by Tolkien, and had the gall to shit on pacifists later, insisting they didn't understand the sense of "gaiety and wholeheartedness that comes with being a soldier". He also called the establishment of knighthood "one of the great Christian ideas."
The man either had a psychotic break or was a pathological liar his whole life.
@@donaldbarber3829 Or his else his opinions differed from yours. Let’s not forget that possibility.
BART is wise not to try and compete with Megan’s glasses. There can be no competition on the hair. Always enjoy your content. Thank!
Cheeky!
He should try to compete on hair color 😅
These are tame compared to her asymmetric fallen-over S ones.
In my head thinking of Bart with pink hair:
💭 👩🏻🎤= Bart
🧑🏼🦰
Amazing podcast this time! Really loved how Dr. Ehrman explained about what the actual historical Jesus wouldve said using the verse of 12 apostles ruling the 12 tribes in the future. These kinda nuances and trying to figure out the mysterious bits is why this podcast is so good! Do cover such topics always! Thank you both of you❤
As someone who has more than a passing interest in language and Norse philosophy/ religion, here's another question: why did we use the word Hell for the mediaeval demonic pit of torments? Hel, both the person and the place, in the Nordic mythos is not bad, and even has a bit of beauty (in the half of Hel's face that faces towards Midgard) but is mostly kind of dull, not at all unlike Hades or for that matter, Sheol. What word did that lunatic John of Patmos use when describing eternal torment? Where did the repurposing of Sheol, Gehenna, and Hel come to mean what we think of Hell today?
Hel and Hell both come from Proto-Germanic _haljō_
Please see Hel and Hell on Wikipedia. I confirmed the etymology of Hell elsewhere.
I would guess that the Christian penchant to categorize any non-Christian supernatural belief as evil contributes to the current difference in meaning between Hel and Hell.
It comes from the Christianization of the Anglo-Saxons. Now, their conceptions of Hel & her realm were not exactly like those of their brethren, the Norse; but their term for 'the bad afterlife' was Hel - the goddess' name. The phrase "Go to Hell" is very old, and meant to die and go to the bad afterlife.
When the Anglo-Saxons became Christian, the old traditions couldn't be totally stamped out. And certainly, although the language of Christianity then was Latin, you had to translate that Latin into the local language so people could understand it. Thus, the pre-existing term for where someone did _not_ want to end up after they died became the term for the Christian concept of the Fires of Gehenna, or variously Sheol (the dull quiet of death as eternal sleep).
@@thealmightyaku-4153Their brethren the Norse and Danes entered the English bloodstream in a big way around AD 800, so that could have brought hel into the language? 🎉
@@trilithon108 The Angles, Saxons & Jutes were Germanic pagans - they already believed in Hel when they invaded in the 400s. And they were Christianised in the 600s.
I should also mention that Hell was easily conflated with extra-biblical ideas of 'the bad afterlife' from the Mediterranean with pagan origins that had become mixed up in Christian belief, & used to translate it: Tartarus/Hades, & Orcus - which are all, interestingly, like Hell, places named for the god that inhabits &/or rules them.
Mr. Jennings, I have been thinking about that too. Gehenna in modern (American?) English would be something like the local dump, what we euphemistically inclined Americans call a landfill. Sheol has been translated into the word "pit" in one text I found. The Italian word " inferno" which means hell might refer to " forno" meaning oven or kiln or perhaps, instead. "l'inverno" which means winter, literally "the" winter as I have written it. Dante used the word "inferno" for hell which I have always imagined as a hot place, but the very center of his Hell where Satan was said to be imprisoned was a frozen place. Satan was upright, up to his waist in solid, frozen turds, according to the translation I read. I know little Italian, and no Latin, Greek or Hebrew, but the poet in me wonders if the word "pit" in Hebrew has a double meaning. In English pit can mean a hole dug in the ground and it can mean a type of seed. English has a curious word "cleave" which can mean to cut or chop or to bring together, depending on its context, also.
Is Bart ok? He sounds like he's getting sick or something? His voice sound different today. Well, I hope your well Bart, thank you for another great episode.
Best hair coloring so far, Megan! Miraculous!
Love the slow down message
great podcast, so interesting
Oooo love the new hair!!!!
There's therapy available for that
@onejohn2.26. I was talking about megans hair not barts
@@bubbles581 that's funny but I forgot to laugh
@@onejohn2.26. nobody asked 🙃🙃🙃
Megan’s scholarship and style are life goals.
Bart is cool, too ;)
Love this podcast
Thank you for the important work that you do.
Mind blowing episode,thank you Dr. Ehrman
Very interesting and informative 😮🤔
How would you know? They just uploaded it, like 13 seconds ago 🤣🤣🤣
@@johnpetkos5686 title and description was interesting 🤔 and informative
@@Bjorn_Algiz OK! The title can be interesting, but I think the content can be informative.
@@johnpetkos5686 yeah...that's the idea 💡
I admire Prof. Bart's work. It's historical and never theological. So his work is a good tool for theologian like myself.
Megan that hair is fantastic! Thank you for the interesting information.
Very interesting interview thanks and I've heard/read Bart say similar things before but I would have liked it if he'd given more detail on how we end up with the gospels having JC referring to himself as the Son of Man on many occasions. Did he never say any of those phrases? Or did he say some of them but in those cases he actually said "I/me" or "Son of God" instead? Is it likely that a 1st century Jewish carpenter's son, even one who thought he would become king, would refer to himself in the third person, or was that only Greco-Roman practice?
Thank you for sharing your incredible knowledge with us ❤Instead of going to my church’s bible classes for 8+ years, I could have learned soooo much more by just listening to a few of your podcasts.
Comparing the two would be enlightening as well.
Good one
Mr Ehrman, which Nils Dahl book are you referring to between 10:40 and 12:24? Please and Thank You.
I loved the video aaand... the new voice of Bart, I guess is because of the microphone.
💭
🤔
Rabbi Akiva declared Simon bar Kokhba the Meshiach. Not everyone agreed but, generally, Simon was the type of person that fit the messianic expectations of many.
That's odd, most of those psychos know it's Trump
No he does not sit the Messiah because the scripture clearly states that the Messiah will come down on with the clouds
@onejohn2.26. Why would you give two shoots about that, the Messiah comes from YHWH the devil, that's what Jesus said, in John John
@@Imahuckleberry
That makes no sense whatsoever
@onejohn2.26. It makes perfect sense, especially when you read John 8, like verse 44. Who was he speaking to, and what is the name of their devil God? Most of what Jesus said was to show you this psychopath isn't his FATHER. He said over and over things like " You've heard is said, BUT I say", or things like in YOUR Law, or THEIR law, or in THEIR synagogues, even HIS greatest commandments was how many, two???
Even Jesus flat out told you the GREAT deception, was that people like you would FALSELY call him the stinking Christ
Matthew 24:5
For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.
Trust me, yes it makes PERFECT sense, especially when he said y'all would all follow the wrong one, that stinking devil's son
John 5:43
I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Your problem is, he hasn't CHOSEN to reveal his FATHER to you yet
Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
There's two FATHERS, and two son, devil YHWH and his freak Christ is the wrong one
I was waiting eagerly for a discussion of the supposedly controversial description of Cyrus (II, the Great) as "Messiah" in Isaiah 45:1, but I either missed it or it didn't come. Seems like it would have been very useful for illustrating the expectations of a Messiah in the exilic period and afterwards...whether or not the passage or the mention of Cyrus is original.
Also, I don't know if it has been done already, but a comparative reading of the calling of Cyrus and the Cyrus cylinder seems like it might be an interesting pursuit: One thing in particular that struck me immediately was the "taking of the hand", by Yahweh in Isaiah and by Marduk in the Cyrus Cylinder.
Another thing that came to mind was the various descriptions of Zerubbabel, where a Messianic function seems to be hinted at, but with some reservation, although perhaps I am letting the image of God wearing Zerubbabel as a signet ring (which does not seem to be an enthusiastic endorsement) influence my interpretation. My impression is that there was a strong desire at the time for some sort of home-grown Messiah/King, but that the power of the Achaemenid rulers at the time made that seem unlikely.
Sorry for the ignorance inherent in all of these statements, just quick reactions to an interesting topic.
Can you make an episode the identities of the twelve disciples/apostles? Can all of their names be suggested by the textual evidence?
I love Megan’s look. Her hair is awesome. The glasses go well with it too.
I am most likely off for the 30th, this is gonna be awesome!
Megan, I LOVE your hair!!
She's really rocking it today.
Pink violet and blue combination ❤️
A work in progress. The Atomic Energy Commission is at work on the fluorescent blue for the other side.
I bet she uses filters, who knows what she really looks like. Not at all like when on Mythvision.
Serious question. How does Megan's hair stay so perfect after so many color changes?
I"m stealing Doctor Ehrman's motto for the year. That's totally awesome. Also, I'll pile on in my admiration of Megan's awesome hair color. What would you call that? Magenta, maybe? Or perhaps it's closer to fuchsia.
Hair color: Fuchsia Shock !
QUESTION re episode on Life After Death. How does the story of Saul consulting Samuel via the mediumship of the Witch of Endor fit in with Bart's statement that for Jews resurrection has to involve the body. Doesn't the story suggest survival of the soul? Why were there laws against consulting mediums?
Thank you.
I think I'm the messiah, so I can relate to this Jesus guy.
That dye job is LEGIT, excellent shading
Pink hair is never legit
It really is!!!
Was the pouring of oil/annointing ceremony described in the Tanakh have equivalents in other, earlier peoples of Antiquity? (I presume so, but don't ever remember having read that anywhere...)
I'm going to say yes.
Rabbi Tovia Singer has many excellent discussions on this topic
Oh, yes, I remember that Daniel son-of-man stuff, but I forgot about it, so I have to watch this again and again. Thanks.
Video starts about 5 minutes in.
The more I learn about mysticism, the less able I am to do even accept arguments like "he said I AM" as implying he thought he was God literally, even from a purely Christian perspective and not asking questions about historical truth, I don't buy at all that's the most obvious or the simplest explanation and interpretation of such "evidence". There's so many other people in history who said similar things but weren't claiming to be the savior of all mankind, some controversial Islamic Sufi mystics for example.
Did Bart get a new mic? His voice sounds deeper and clearer.
Take a shot for everytime you hear "Messiah". (Please don't actually do this.)
Im blasted already!😂
Take a shot for every academic who can actually point to the "historical Jesus" they claim exists.
You should still be sober after this exercise.
I did and now I am on my way to Jesus. 😂😅
Too late.😂
@@MarcillaSmith The historical Jesus died two thousand years ago. That makes him difficult for anyone to point “to”-or at. What would be the point of this attempt to point?
Suggestion for an episode theme: What are the good things Jesus said or is attributed with saying, and what are the really dodgy ones?
Suggestion for an episode theme:
Who are the people as a nation who truly follow the preaching and practice of Jesus of the Bible?
Do YOU realize that the ONLY people on the face of the earth who practice and uphold and preach and defend the doctrine and honor of Jesus OF THE BIBLE are the Muslim?????
It's an amazing situation really. On each and every fundamental doctrine, Christianity (overwhelming) is AGAINST Jesus of their very own scriptures BUT the Muslim is calling the Christians to go by what Jesus precticed and preached. 🤗
👉 Jesus gave the Trinity-DESTROYING testimony that THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD but the Christians (overwhelming) testify that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (The Trinity) is the true God.
👉 John 4:21-22
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, *WORSHIP THE FATHER* .
Ye worship ye know not what: *WE* know what *WE WORSHIP* : for salvation is of the Jews.
Have another look:
*WE WORSHIP*
(The J-E-W na-ti-on INCLUDING ME - Jesus)
👉 “And this is life eternal, that they might know *YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD* , and Jesus Christ, whom *YOU* have sent.”
John 17:3
👉 John 20:17: “Jesus saith unto her, ...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.”
Have another look!
".... *TO MY GOD and YOUR GOD* "
ME and YOU 👉 *WE*
*WE WORSHIP*
THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER who is THE GOD OF ME (Jesus) and YOU 👉 *OUR GOD*
👉 And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord *OUR GOD* is one Lord
Mark 12:29
👉 Jesus teaches: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *HIM ONLY* shalt thou serve” Luke 4:8. Notice the words: “HIM ONLY.” Jesus did not say “US only,” or “Him and I only.” How could he possibly i it more clear than that? Jesus told to worship ONLY THE FATHER - who is THE GOD of Jesus too.
👉 NEVER preached about Original Sin
👉 NEVER preached that for salvation, people needed to believe that Jesus died (will die) for their sins
👉 NEVER preached that the wages of sins is death
👉 PREACHED that for the forgiveness - NO payment needed, NO sacrifice of Jesus, NO Jesus paid for us
👉 PREACHED that just turn away in sincere repentance and the Merciful God forgives
👉 PREACHED adherence to the comprehensive Law Code as the path to salvation
👉 PREACHED that for certain transgression (like mur-der) on the Law Code, CAPITAL punishment - PUTTING the transgressors to DE ATH - needed to be administered
👉 PREACHED that his followers SHALL IN NO WAY ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN if they do not keep the comprehensive Law Code even better and moreso than the Scribes and the Pharisees
👉 DID NOT eat p.i.g
👉 FASTED and PREACHED FASTING
👉 Greeted with the phrase "peace be with you"
👉 Jesus was CIRCUMCISED. AN EVERLASTING COVENANT IN FLESH for the believers till the end of times
👉 PREACHED that his followers follow the comprehensive Law Code which the Scribes and the Pharisees tell people to follow - that includes oblution / washing of the hands and feet before worship or entering a place of worship
Of course the term the Father in the Jewish context. NOT that God has a Son.
I would be interested in Bart's reaction to near death experiencers who return to life and say they saw Jesus and spoke with him - there's a lot of youtube talks by such people. I don't know if that's of interest at all, but I figure, the power of the human mind is so strong, and collectively the brain power of humankind is even stronger, that it is able to bring to "life" a figure that doesn't otherwise exist on its own. There's been cases of groups of people coming together and meditating in a way that manifests in an actual spirit that takes on an identity, however briefly. Kind of interesting.
Bart got him a new mic.
I can't remember what I did yesterday but I was in a hurry to do it. I liked that.
new mic!!!!
42:45 Gahana is a word also used for hell in the Quran, where it's pronounced Jahannam
Oh how I love your hair
Wow, joy is energy...
Where exactly is that verse in Matthew and respectively Luke where Jesus says to the twelve that they shall rule the twelve tribes of Israel, one tribe each? Could someone answer this for me please?
Ματταθιας 19:28
(2:55) However cliche it might sound, bathing your young children will result into some of your very happiest memories. Hang in there and try to keep some of these times special if at all possible.
i'd like to ask Dr Ehrman about the passage where Jesus reads from the scroll of Isaiah. Was Jesus really illiterate? (in which case it's a fabulated memory). The story is strongly resonant because of the poetic power of the Isaiah text & also because of the find of an Isaiah scroll from those times among the Dead Sea Scrolls.
37:05 anyone else had to think about Tom Lehrer's 'I got it from Agnes? No? Just me?
The only person that should have a discussion / debate with Dr Erhman about Quran / Bible is Dr Ali Ataie. He is as knowledgeable and proficient in religions and languages of antiquity as Dr Erhman, if not more.
I know Dr Erhman is starting a series on Quran - I would strongly suggest Dr Ataie as a interlocutor
Agree
I like Bart's motto. I always say "If you want something done, look for someone who is already busy". This is what I want to be. That busy person
Megan is a cool gal. People whose hair are different colors have an OUTSTANDING PERSONALITY.
23:50 - Gesundheit!
*Expected Messiah and historicity*
The scenario starting at 15:35 where Jesus is expected to be the Messiah seems to be the best argument for historicity. It doesn’t make sense that someone would invent a failed Messiah, nor that people would believe in a living Messiah, then invent his death and an overhaul of his nature
In other words, the history of proto-Christianity proceeded as if an itinerant preacher known as Jesus was historical.
40:00 Greek Roman traditions, Soul origin story, Plato
42:30 Origins of Hell word, burial
Would Jesus have believed the immaculate conception/birth narratives found in Matthew and Luke?
These are among those things that are impossible to know. They only sayings attributed to Jesus are taken from the Hebrew Bible. It is more likely these reflect the view of gospel writer. Question are what would Jesus believe are ridiculous
Is it just me or did Bart get a new microphone? He sounds VERY different in this episode than in the many, many videos I’ve watched and recognized his unique voice. 😂
I feel like the closest thing we have to a time machine is Bart Ehrman
44:20 mark... Ehrman admits Quirinius did a census (mentioned in Luke) but then says it wasn't empire wide.
Hank Hanegraaff wrote in the article, "Are Matthew and Luke Reliable Concerning Christ’s Birth in Bethlehem":
"Furthermore, dogmatic assertions by John Dominic Crossan, Robert Funk, Bart Ehrman, and other fundamentalist scholars that there is no record outside of the Gospels that emperor Caesar Augustus ordered a worldwide taxation are also patently false. In truth, Caesar Augustus was famous for his census-taking - so famous, in fact, that credible historians do not even debate the issue. The Jewish historian Josephus, for example, refers to a Roman taxation of AD 6, which likely took a lengthy period to complete. It no doubt began with Caesar Augustus around 5 BC and was completed a decade later. Luke notes that the census was completed when Quirinius was governor of Syria. As noted by historian Paul Maier during a live Bible Answer Man broadcast, “The Romans took 40 years to get a census done in Gaul. For a province 1,500 miles away from Rome in Palestine to take a decade is pretty quick. And since that census would finally come in under Quirinius’s administration, it would be called correctly by Luke his census.” Given Luke’s impeccable credentials as a historian, it would be far more circumspect to give him the benefit of the doubt. One need only remember the experience of the brilliant archaeologist Sir William Ramsay, who set out to disprove Luke’s historical reliability. Through his painstaking Mediterranean archaeological trips, he discovered that, one after the other, the historical allusions of Luke proved accurate. If, as Ramsay points out, Luke does not err in referencing a plethora of countries, cities, and islands, there is no reason to doubt him concerning this census.The common contention that men were taxed where they lived and women didn’t count is also spurious. Maier cites a first-century Roman census in Egypt, in which taxpayers living elsewhere were ordered to return to their homelands for registration. Moreover, a Roman census from Bacchius, Egypt, dated AD 119, historically documents that women and children were registered by their husbands or fathers."
Btw there are also Egyptian papyri showing that there were women who registered their families 👍
The more I learn about the actual history, or historiography, of Christianity, and how people created it over time using a few facts and a lot of projection, reinterpretation of scripture, and good old myth, the more it sounds like the whole "Paul is dead" thing. It's obviously on a very tiny scale, but it's similar somehow - sparked by an obscure DJ in the states, Beatles fans went through searching through every song, backwards and forwards, every image, every word, and wove a rather loony narrative that to this day some people still believe. Interesting!
It really makes you ponder the hundreds (thousands) of messianic claimants throughout the deuterocanonical period.
Come for the Bible scholarship, stay for the Hair and Glasses. Love this show.
Megan Lewis has the most amazing glasses.
Yes, amazingyes, amazingly ridiculous
I am so depressed. I'll try enjoy stuff more
Depending on the type, you can't always choose not to be depressed. Maybe seek some help?
I hear you. For me it comes and goes. When it comes I try to ride it out…it does go. Hang in there.
I hear you. A part of me feels like that often too even though another part of me just wants to enjoy the podcast😅 Just on the off chance that this might be helpful for you, I would recommend checking out IFS therapy. Hope you feel better ❤
Who did Jesus think he was? There is a story about how Jesus went back to his home territory and encountered skepticism and his response was that a prophet was not honored in his own country, which I presumed was a local proverb with which people were familiar. If so, it says he viewed himself as like an unpopular prophet, or perhaps he saw himself as an actual prophet. Elsewhere it was said that he spoke. as one who "had authority."
Who recorded every word, not the illiterate disciples. Maybe it was made up by the church😮
Lk.14:25-26. Now large crowds were accompanying Jesus, and turning to them he said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
Mt.10:36-38."a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
IT APPEARS that Matthew modified and softened Luke's verse (as have many modern English translations of Luke's verse). For me this could mean that Matthew did have a copy of Luke as well as Mark to compose his own narrative.
Mark is the source for mathew and Luke, Mark sources are lost to us, sources of sources of sources are also lost to us,.
Luke was written after Matthew, so Matthew's author would not have had a copy of Luke.
In Isaiah, the messiah is supposed to bring about peace love and understanding for everyone on earth.
Love that hair!!
40:20 when Bart indirectly admitts it's all a myth
Now, if Dr. Bart says again that Jesús never claimed that, he's going to lose some credibility with me. Jesus did toward the end of his ministry and at his trial (according to 3 gospels): Messiah, Son of Man, whatever. It doesnt matter... the main point is Yeshu's devastating final answer to the Sanhnedrin, "Before Abraham was, I am"!!!!!
I've follow Bart's explanation of how Jesus' disciples came to believe he is a different kind of Messiah than they expected. But I still don't understand how they went from, "He was crucified, so he cannot be the Messiah," to "God raised him from the dead, so he must have died for the world's sins." Where did the idea of "dying for the world's sins" come from?
That comes from Paul’s understanding because for Paul that was the only reason why God would send Jesus and have him be killed as a “sacrifice” just like the ancient people were already familiar with.
Hope this helps!
And I think in the podcast episode on Jesus vs Paul is where Bart talks about this understanding of Paul and this also brings in Paul’s understanding that this is for the world not just the Jews but the gentiles and this opens up Christianity to everyone and when it really becomes a world religion! 👍
This was the best in a while - the infancy gospel stuff and archeology was a bit of a bore. It would have been nice if Bart mentioned if he had any other reasons for thinking that Jesus believed himself to be the Messiah - though I expect that you can only fit so much in an episode. But very concise.
Also the Q&A re Greek influence and Hell were good:
A Good Story, Hell-enised!
No HELLENized.
It's a joke! A bit like Bart's Fun-Damn-Mental.
The idea of eternal life hence hell were a Greek influence.
-ized is American. -ised is British.
Who are you and what have you done with Bart D. Ehrman?
I still don't understand the idea that Jesus would suggest/require that his followers give up everything and give to the poor, when the "poor" and _everybody_ else would be part of the imminent "Paradise on Earth". What practical difference would it make? It seems that the concept of repentance is far more important in this context (to "ensure" your place in the new regime!)
Interesting thought - it does seem contradictory - to follow Him, you must renounce earthly possessions, yet He believed he was the future king of an earthly kingdom? Doesn't quite square. Yuck.
So you're saying that Stryper named their band in vain?
*Audio mic is not good* 😮
**update : it’s not so bad
Megan ❤ your hair.
Bart ehrman is a great world biblical scholar
Did Sherlock Holmes think he was a detective?
"Don't worry.... be busy."
Is it just me, or does Bart sound weird? His voice just sounds like, deeper.
I noticed the same. Perhaps he has a new mic.
Recently, in the Bible study in which I participate, I startled the group by noting that British monarchs are anointed with oil as part of the coronation. So, by rights, they are christs. It is perhaps a good thing that US presidents are not anointed.
I'm pretty sure this was not by coincidence - the founding fathers and the framers would have been opposed to that and anything that smacked of royalty.