Mini Split Cost to Run for Heating Season
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- Right now, about $4 per day since it's 30° outside. When its a little warmer or we set the stat back a few degrees, it drops to $1.80 per day.
This is a follow up video to my original video describing my new mini split air source heat pump system. One of the most common questions was about operating costs, so I hooked up my energy monitor to it and measured the actual energy use. You can buy an energy monitor like the one I have at Amazon. One I can recommend is the Efergy which is about $99. www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003...
I also wrote a blog post on my website about how to calculate and compare fuel costs using the Cost Per Million BTU charts that are also available on my site. greatlakeshomeperformance.com/...
*Love this unit! Using upstairs in my sons bedroom **Fastly.Cool** and he’s finally able to be comfortable upstairs without me freezing downstairs. Works for more sqft than expected!*
Thanks Brother, this is just the kind of information I am looking all over the internet for.
Ghost load is from pan heater. Pan heater is what protects outdoor coil from freeze pinching. During its defrost cycle ice from coil melts and may collect at bottom of heat pump and freeze. Heater does not allow it to freeze. Heater is very important
I have ghost load of 330 watts with all indoor units off and outdoor temperature is in the 60's and 70's so that cant be the pan heater.
Matt, were wanting to see your video on the cooling cost but I am unable to find it. thanks and the video on heat cost has givin' me some good insight.
Thank you for the information I'm a licensed hvac mechanic in Connecticut and I always like to learn and be informed
Hi Matt, thank you for the informative videos on the mini split systems. Very surprised about the "Vampire Load". I am now curious if all mini split systems are as wasteful during standby mode.
Thanks for the video Matt. Have you calculated the power consumption for a "typical" 24 hr day/night that would integrate the diurnal temps. Not sure if your whole house energy monitor can do this; would require recording the output on equal intervals over the course of 24 hrs to get otherwise. The integrated 24 hour power use would be more representative of the winter heat pump power usage than just one day-time measurement. If you wanted to get a worst case number, pick a real cold day/night to monitor.
The issue with high standby losses 180 watts has been resolved.
All systems with inverters produce quite high reactive load when in standby.
After turning off all breakers in the house (except Mitsubishi HP) I was able to see 0-15 Watts on our house exterior power meter. When pre-heating kicks in, the consumption goes to 65 watts. Efergy meter shows 180->220 increase.
The discrepancy between exterior meter and efergy still noticeable with low frequencies of compressor but when power goes beyond 650 watts the real load is very close to total load. It's interesting that according to spec of outdoor unit the power factor for single unit operation is 0.95 and for 2-unit operation it's 0.97
Retired commercial hvac professional: Part of that load is a crankcase heater, usually 60 watts or more. What is that ? Most refrigerants in cold weather gravitate as liquid to the bottom of any compressor. If you start that 18 degree cold compressor with 12 - 20 + ounces of liquid refrigerant in the bottom, it will drag every bit of oil out of the compressor usually resulting in compressor damage or immediate failure.
The solution is to add a belt or crankcase heater wrapped around the compressor at the bottom to ''boil out'' the liquid into a vapor state. You are allowed to control it with an automatic switch or temperature control , leaving it off in the hot, summer, or starting at 65 degrees F. So one, the crankcase heater must be working, (not burned out like a light bulb) and two, it must be working all winter long, IF YOU WANT YOUR COMPRESSOR PROTECTED. Trane actually runs a trickle current through either the start or run winding which also works well because the windings won't wear out, and they are submerged in the compressor oil/liquid at the bottom of the crankcase.
This also means that units off for 24 hours CANNOT BE RESTARTED SAFELY, with out allowing 24 hours to ''boil off'' all the liquid now in the crankcase.
There is a way to get around that. HVAC techs (on their own units) might start a heat pump but only allow it to run for TWO OR THREE SECONDS. Wait five minutes, and start it again for only TWO OR THREE SECONDS, shutting it off, wait another seven minutes, to allow the 2 or 3 second startup to boil off the liquid, BUT LEAVE THE OIL BEHIND ! After three or four short starts, the liquid will now be vapor and the compressor can continue to run WITHOUT damage. The industry rule for cold weather, is power the unit, with the compressor turned off, and when very cold, wait 24 - 48 hours for the heat to chase the liquid from the crankcase. The electricity used is protecting your compressor ! Also I would not be surprise if they are using 3 -12 watts to keep the compartment with the electronics at a more constant 70 degrees to allow for stability in the system. Extreme temperatures can crack an electronic board !
Good info, thanks.
Hi Matt, thank you for the great informative videos.
I was wondering if you had any opinion on the Amira mini split unit? I am converting my garage into a studio and thinking of using his system. It will be one large room about 25 x 30, double walls, with a ton of insulation. I was considering using the 12,000 btu model. I live in upstate ny. If I needed a little extra heat in the winter I have a few space heaters. But I need to keep temps moderate at all times for the equipment.
Thank you in advance. for any advice you have to offer.
I want to let you know that a couple of years or so ago I watched the first video you did on the ductless mini split. I was super interested. I have baseboard electric heat which is so expensive to run. This year we were finally about to swing the costs. For our 1,100 sq ft home we bought a Mr. Cool 24,000 BTU DIY. It has lots of bells and whistles being 3rd generation and the DIY aspect created very little installation costs. It is totally pre-charged with quick connect lines, can heat even at 5 degrees which we seldom go down to in KY, has a remote and is also able to run with wireless by phone. The hardest part would have been the electric, but I had a friend who was qualified to put in the line. I'm also not good at DIY anything but he is, so together we got it put in. We are extremely happy with how it is heating the home and grateful for your video. You were convincing in your presentation plus the fact that you had nothing to sell, just giving good advice.
That's Awesome! I'm glad you made the leap. We loved our mini and are missing it these days. We moved earlier this year to North Carolina from Michigan.
I've heard a lot of good things about the Mr. Cool brand systems. I was always worried about getting them serviced by a local contractor if needed, but they're making them so easy to DIY that you might never need to have a contractor come out.
Thank you for sharing your story, and I'm glad I could help.
Matt
Did you switch away from the baseboard heater to DMS or mixed use. How much did you save?
@@mannydrives We switched away from the baseboard heater. Two days last year we did put the baseboard heat on for a couple of extremely cold days, but only in the 2 rooms furtherest from the heater. I am guessing we have saved about $40-$90 in the extremely cold months, about$20-40 other months. We found our best deal at Ingram's on line, much better deal and customer service than the big box stores. The DIY Mr. Cool units are a real good value compared to others and you will have no installation fees, but the regular ones are an amazing deal if you want to pay someone to install. The units and all components are very well made, heavy duty.
last three seasons my combined heat and cooling bill is under $700.00. Before Mitsubishi 24,000btu min split it was $1800.00.! The payback is 4 to 5 yesrs. I live in the mid atlantic but my guess is mini ' s have a place most every part of the US.
Hi Matt. Did you calculate your cost based on a perpetual 24 hour time frame in relation to the temperature, or just for a portion of the day? And if you don't mind me asking what month were you in when you did this video? Thanks
The ghost load that you were talking about is a drain pan heater and a compressor crankcase heater that keeps the refrigerant from pooling in the compressor oil
Hello Matt, My questions concerns which mini split to buy. I need a small one to heat and cool and small cottage here in Michigan. I have looked at different models. A lot of installers use Daikin. I came across the Alpine for about half the price. Their ratings are a little lower, but I have no way to judge this. The Daikin is a little too expensive and aren't all made in China?
Can you update us on how the inside 'switch' is working? Has your bill reflected the change?
This video was incredibly useful and informative!!! Thanks a ton
Thanks a ton?
Thanks a 12,000 btu.. lol..
12,000 btu = 1 ton
I just got a mini split heating and cooling system with the heat pump was just wondering how much it will cost a month to run it??
Awesome extremely informative videos
That’s great to know I am thinking of having one fitted
Hello Matt nice video. The "Ghost Load" you are referring to is most likely due to the Crank case heater. This heater is attached to the compressor to keep refrigerant out on start-up. Refrigerant migrates to the coldest area in the circuit when off/idle. Compressors cannot compress liquid so I would not recommend cutting power to the unit. The heater is your compressors protection from slugging during startup. If you decide to cut power give the heater some time to boil off any refrigerant in the compressor before starting your system.
As a 20+ years experienced HVAC technician I second that, and to be safe the power should be back on 24hrs before using your Ac/Heat pump unit. I've seen compressor failure due to slugging, not a cheap fix.
LMFAO this guy cracks me up. Guy in video literally does not even have a clue about it.
Does this hold true for split mini's? They supposedly have a restart function that returns the unit to its last setting after power outage. Virtually all split mini's have this function. I appreciate your professional take on this. Peter
Depending on the model it will have a heater in the base pan of the outdoor unit to keep ice from building up and damaging the outdoor coil. This heater is on a thermostat and only comes on below a certain outdoor temp.
@Mark Lac crankcase heater prevents refrigerant migration / slugging. Which, as I'm sure you know, can cause severe damage to the older piston type compressor on start up. Not so much on the newer compliant scroll type though. Although you still want to prevent that washing you described. I too have over 40 years HVAC experience and have seen many times where a replacement compressor crankcase heater was not hooked up. I trained my guys to understand that it's there for a reason. Hook it up
So is it cheaper to run electrical or gas heat in you're house?
Thanks for the information
If the crankcase heater is the cause for vampire power on the mini split unit, can it be negated by changing the unit mode from heat to fan or dehumidify?
Thanks again.. GREAT information!
I don’t have all of the devices to monitor the electricity use this is the first year with the mini split for us.Normally I use a pellet stove for heat but I’m thinking I can wait until the colder weather to begin using it.That’s always been my problem because the pellet stove puts out too much for the fall and early winter temperatures so I’m hoping that I won’t have to use it until late November here in Michigan,guess I’ll find out
HEY MATT...HSPF SEEMS A BIT HIGH. ARE YOU SURE ABOUT 21.5 HSPFMOST OF THE ONES IM INSTALL ARE 12.5 OR BETTER WHICH PUTS THE COP AROUND 3 OR BETTER. AT 21, YOUR COP IS AROUND 7. ANY THOUGHTS?
What part of Michigan are you in there a big difference between the upper U .P.and down by Detroit?
HI where do we find a Cost Per Million BTU sheet? Can't find it on your website. Thanks
Hey Matt,
What’s the current cost per net therm to heat with your boiler burning propane vs the heat pump at 47 & 17f.
How much do you suppose of the 164 watts is available as useful heat vs lost at the outdoor unit?
Can I use one of 3 units running off the same compressor as a dehumidifier for one dampish basement area? Would also like to heat it but concerned mostly about the humidity there. It is a below ground area used for storage...a crawl space.
Yes you can. Just make sure that you do not oversize the indoor unit. Get the smallest one that you can. Otherwise it will cut off due to reaching temperature too quickly. Also run it in Dry Mode.
Thanks for the video. I wanted to know when you installed the on off switch. Did you install two on off switches? One for the 220volt to the outside unit and one for the 110 volt indoor unit?
David Hazen power for indoor unit is supplied by the outdoor unit on most residential mini-splits.
@@stevegibbons809 Thank you!
What happens to the Fujitsu at extremely cold temperatures? It can get -40 F here in northern Wisconsin.
Does the mini split continue to run, or does it shut down to prevent damage?
I have read that these are often designed as a back up system in more extreme climates (I live in MI). So, as I see it, it supplements your original system and covers you for at least 90% of the time The other 10% of the time, you might just have to fire up the wood stove, or whatever you are used to using... I also see they make heat down to 5 degrees, but that means they just make less heat below that, as 5 is not a cut off temp., just a reference number.
Mine was not a low temp unit, so it was made to operate down to 15°F. It would continue to supply 100°+ air even down to about zero outside, but as the temp dropped to -10° or so, it would just stop. There's a crankcase heater that it uses to prevent damage to the compressor. I'd imagine that the low temp units would operate down to -25° or so, but -40 would be out of it's operable range.
Matt, thank you for the helpful video; forgive me if I missed it -- what BTU size is your Fujitsu? Thank you.
19,500 BTU
How many kWh per month in the winter to run the heat pump(s)? If you're willing to share. Thanks.
What mini split did you purchase that’s so efficient?
Hey Matt, Thanks for the great and informative video! We are going to build a small shed roof style SIPS house (Structurally Insulated Panels) with a 640 sq ft footprint and a 240 loft with a full basement. In your experience, do you think a 12,000 BTU or 1 Ton would be enough for the 1st floor and loft (880 sq ft total), given the fact that it's SIPS construction or would you go bigger? We would also probably install another wall unit in the basement.
You'll need someone to do the calculation to determine your heating and cooling loads. You can oversize these systems by an additional 50% and they'll modulate down to meet the demand.
good work Matt.. You gave good info on the video but the Mfg failed to give you good info on the so called ohantom load. My mitzibishi tapers down to meet the needs of the structure and seldom finds the outside and inside temps to totally allow for a total shut down. The "phantom load is producing heat or ac. Unless your brand of mini operates differently than my mini.
It took two weeks after the install to build a data base for the unit to operate as it does now, it seeminly anticipates needs of the buikding. I have put my hand clos to the unit and barly felt warm or cool air and due to the very quiet operation that is the only way i knew it had not been turned completely off . This is how minisplits keep the temoture so consistently close to the thermostats setting by producing as little heat or cooling so as to match the load .
It is first hand acciunts of real use that is the most usfull .
get the smallest unit you can. how thick are the panels. what are your temp highs and lows. sounds like you put the unit low and the loft will nat heat up higher. get a small wood stove as back up. hope you closed celled you basement walls and below slab
need more info. windows? orientation? climate? seems best to get the smallest rather than oversize. hope you insulated your basement well. your loft (sleeping?) should be no prob to heat. cool as well if you have a window up there. imo get a small wood stove as back up.
On the mini split system, what should i set my settings (auto, cool, dry) at during summer for the most energy efficiency ?
The key is to set it and forget it. Mini splits work best when you leave them set at a certain temperature. If you don't mind the temperature swinging a little bit, then you can use the dry setting. It will continually dehumidify very efficiently. Dry air feels much cooler than wet clammy air. I would avoid the auto setting because you can't control the "swing" setting. I would assume that it's about 3 degrees which would mean that the heat might come on at night when it cools down, and then the a/c comes on during the day, then heat again at night.
The Ghost Load that you speak of is actually the compressor slowly moving, it never turns off and this is to protect your equipment from freezing the oil and temperature maintenance, its a bad idea to turn it off like you are doing . Pay the 15 bucks as it will save your equipment from premature failure
Dan Thomas yes especially in winter time...
Could be the pan heater also
What is the best unit in terms of price, quality and reliability? I see a wide price variance as I shop. Thanks!
Mr. Cool. The regular units are much cheaper but it is well made, great warranty and service. The DIY costs about the same as the non-diy of other companies but you don't have the installation costs.
It’s been a few years now. Are you still happy with your system? Do you feel like it would be a good option as primary system for an area that only got down to +10-15f in the winter and 110 in the summer?
The system is 4.5 years old now, and yes, we still love it. We did have a failure this winter when the indoor coil developed a leak and needed to be replaced, but it was completely covered by the warranty; parts, labor, refrigerant, everything. I know that there was a batch of these things that had some bad Chinese copper in them, and I suspect that's what caused the failure. The manufacturer had them send the coil back to the factory.
I have a 2800 sq ft. 2 story home. Currently it is climate controlled with 2 HVAC unit (duct system, 1 unit per floor). I am looking to switch over to this Mini Split system. Do you have any recommendations for layout? For example, 2 (3 ton) systems to replace existing HVAC or several smaller units, say 4 (2 ton) systems on 4 corers of the house, etc.) I have extremely hot summers, 60 days triple digits, and a few cold months in the ball park of 40 degree lows. Any advice you have would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Brian Kolosick First step is to make sure you're doing everything possible to minimize the heat gain: insulation & air sealing, light colored roofing with reflectivity, windows with a low SHGC. After that, have a contractor do a load calculation to determine the overall size you need and the amount that each major area needs. My gut tells me that you'd be best with two outdoor units (placed in the shadiest spot available or build a little shed roof over them) and two or three indoor heads per outdoor unit.
It is estimated that all the power supply adapters we leave plugged in are 5% of the total power usage. WOW!
Sorry I am not not a very theh -savvy person..please bear with my question if it is too obvious for you? Could you give me an idea how much it would cost to run a small office with insulation ( 150 inches X 150 inches) with Mitsubishi min split ( Mr. Slim) heat pump 8,000 btu? I have two inside units system (12,000+ 8,000). I rarely use 12,000 one as was heated by my gas boiler furnace. I set up temperature at 59 F in my office since I don't like it too hot. The office is located in my basement. The outside temperature is at 50F at the moment today. Does it cost like $1 per day to heat a small office like in my basement? Also, if outside temperature is higher like 70F yesterday, would it cost much energy to lower the temperature to 59F or the machine would just idle until the temperature lower than 59F? Thank you.
So your saying that at the time you were running the heat pump 24/7 to get your protected cost to run? Some may not be smart enough to realize this equation. I have a Lennox 5 zone mini split.
I am considering having mini split with 3 zones installed in a small commercial building. I have one tenant that operates beauty salon, while the two other leased are offices. My question, can a mini split heat two offices while the beauty salon is calling for cooling at same time? Thanks
Not likely if they are using the same outdoor condenser.
yes! if you install the City multi by Mitsubishi. It uses one condenser. and will simultaneously heat and cool.
@@robvoyles you seem knowledgeable, what is the best cheapest most efficient cost effective way to heat a house?
I live in Missouri but thinking of moving to Wyoming and would LOVE to keep my monthly heating bills as cheap as possible.
Thanks, Donald
@@3dentertainment301 close cell insulate and good windows and build smaller.
Hi Matt, Great video. I live in Massachusetts and will be building a new home. If natural gas is not available. I will consider a Heat pump system. Do you think the highest rated one will be sufficient as the only heating source for the winter here? The energy efficiency codes here for new houses are very high. Thanks
Be sure to get one that is called either
"low-temp" or "high-heat" or "superheat". Each
manufacturer calls it something different, but the spec list will tell you the
lowest operating temperature and the temperature of the air it can produce at
that outdoor temp. For example, mine is NOT a superheat model and the spec list
says that it will operate down to 15° outdoors and still produce 106° air from
the unit. The superheat models will operate down to -22° and still produce 100°
or more. As long as it is within the design specifications and is charged and
installed properly you should have no problems. Your HVAC guy will probably be
afraid of doing it, but only if he hasn't done the math. Go with a very
technically experienced contractor.
Thanks for the info. In your opinion. Who is better. Fujitsu or Mitsubishi?
Both are great. In my area, there are hardly any Mits installers and service. The Fujitsu seemed to be more high tech and stylish. Had better performance specs as well.
Awesome. Thanks for the info.
You might also want to consider the reliability of your fuel source. If you have frequent power outages you may want to have a propane fireplace or some type of back-up system available.
How much it would cost a 6 spaces mini split?
I believe your cost calcs were for 24/7 operation? Does yours actually run all of the time in the winter?
Yes, in a typical season, it might only shut down for a couple days in the whole winter. Otherwise it’s running 24/7. Even when temps are below the stated operating range, it provide ps heat cheaper than our LP boiler.
Hello, thanks for the video. We have a central heating unit in a 1,000 sq ft home that has stopped working. We contact a hvac company they quoted $5,700 to instal a new 14 seer unit. I didnt know about these split units unit now. I see these unit are much cheaper. These unit seem to be more efficient that the standard unit and alot cheaper. Are there any disadvantages of this system over the traditional central heating/cooling unit? If we go with this unit can they work with current ducks in the house?
Look for the highest SEER rating and HSPF rating. There are ducted mini split systems available but why to you want to loose 30 to 40% of your heating and cooling through your ducts? One system can cover 60% of the house. A multi system with 2 indoor units can cover 80% of the house. Very flexible. You can do up to 4 indoor unit with on outdoor unit. Your home is small a system in every room might be over kill since we are not in every room in our homes. Imagine walking in your home and turning all your lights on. That what happens with a ducted system.
@@toddhutchens I once installed a high-efficiency single module mini split system in an existing hallway fir down in an older 900 square foot home, thereby covering 100% of the house, and eliminating the negative visual Aesthetics of an exposed module hanging on a wall. Had to do a little creative duct board work for the return air and filter placement, but it worked really well. And, along with some new insulation and window upgrades, it literally cut their electric bill in half compared to their crappy old dinosaur system. Needless to say... I had a very happy customer who, incidentally, recommended me to everyone they knew. I think I picked up 5 or 6 other jobs from that. Sweet!
Hi Matt, why don't you put a thermostatic switch on your crankcase heater so it only comes on in cold weather?
Great idea.
Hey Matt....from Texas. My wife and I are looking to get a mini split for our bedroom. We have full on 100+ degrees everyday hitting our bedroom in the afternoon in July and August. Hard to sleep because of the crappy insulation from our home. According to an online calculator for BTU, we need 7400 BTU. Because of the bad insulation, it is suggested by an HVAC person a one ton unit. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts for us based on this. Also brands vary with warranty on compressor, parts etc. LG, HITACHI, MITSUBISHI, ETC. THANKS...Toasty in Texas
You'll have to do your own research on brands and warranties, but pick something that the local contractors like. As for sizing, going larger than needed is not much of an issue on these units because they modulate to meet the demand. So if you had a 1 ton unit, 12,000 BTU, it would only be operating at about 60% most of the time.
Interesting...working on it these days. Have two calls into AC people...and yet to hear from them. We have had triple digits here in Texas...and I figure they are very busy.
Thanks for your reply Matt.
Add insulation
A one ton will work fine for your space. Bigger is not better for Ductless Mini splits. Too much cycling. You will burn out the compressor. They like to work and do it efficiently.
doesn't a mini split heat pump have a crankcase heater that uses electricity on off cycle to keep compressor warm, maybe thats why you are using 164 watts when off.
correct. That's what the wasted wattage is going to, so in the off seasons when we don't need to use it at all, I throw the circuit breaker. Some of the newer units don't have a continuous crankcase heater.
Yes, that's exactly what it was. When we go for a prolonged period without running it, I throw the breaker.
I believe it’s actually a heating element in the drain tray of the outdoor unit. When the thaw cycle runs, the coils heat up and melt the frost off. All of the runoff can freeze again in the drain tray, and build up high enough to interfere with the fan. I would be curious if the ghost load is there when temps warm up (maybe it is only activated below a certain temp)
And / or a crank case heater for the compressor .
God bless
Wyr
Thank you for the video. I have been searching for information on cold climate heat pumps and am struggling to know which models will take me the furthest into a zone 7 (northern Wisconsin) winter. I am converting a 1300 square foot cabin for year-round use, and there is not currently a heating system. Any help appreciated!
I'm not Matt, but I'll share some information. In Northern Wisconsin you may not want to have a mini-split as your only heat source. However there are systems that can still work for most of your year. Look for the term "Hyper Heat". One of the best low temperature systems is the Fujitsu XLTH systems. I ran into a home in Ann Arbor that only had regular mini-splits for heat in an addition and made this video about the problem: ruclips.net/video/0DPSNaEH_7M/видео.html
HomeBuyersAgent
Thank you. We added electric to each room as well. The claim is that the baffle (windscreen) across the front will allow it to continue pulling heat down to -35. They ordered special LG units from Canada. I think the only addition is the baffle.
Not holding my breath, but interested in the outcome.
Very helpful video, thanks Matt. Any idea how effective this would be during Canadian winters (London, ON) where it often gets down below -25c (-13f)? In my case, existing baseboard heating would be available as a backup if necessary.
+Kellan (Yellow Rain) They do make a low temp unit, they call them "superheat" units which will operate down to -15 F. Mine is not a superheat unit because we have a boiler with baseboard heat that we can use when it gets below +15F.
Senville out of Canada makes one that works down to -22°f
Thanks for explaining the vampire.. ghost power drain.
What it would cost to runn it
Does this type system have a thermostat on the wall?
you can get a wired thermostat, but most of them come standard with a remote. The remote mounts in a cradle on the wall.
This system is already saving you way more than 15 bucks a month! If your sustentable has any learning capabilities and it most likely does for maximum efficiency, you ate resetting that feature every time you shut it off.
Don't be cheap and let those algorithms save you those few bucks you are so worried about.
do you have to use the boiler at all ?
We probably don't "need" to use the boiler, but the remote areas of the house like the back bedroom and the basement get pretty chilly when the temp dips into the single digits outside. I also heat the garage with the boiler. It gets plenty of use, but our propane bill is tiny now. The mini split runs 24/7 in the winter.
@@MattKnowsThat Wondering about the reliability after three years.
not all of us are wizzes at figuring out what u said about the unit , I just want to know if its better then running other fossil fuels ,gasses or burning wood
It's the least expensive way to heat. By a long shot. It still burns coal at the power plant, but it's wayyyy cheaper for me to run than the propane option.
nat gas the best. he doesn't have it. modern efficient 2 speed gas/hvac still the best if you have nat gas. more bang? seal all your outside wall outlets and switches. cost less than $5
Nice gun sign
I'm going to be installing a 4 zone mini split Fujitsu system, I leave in MA and will be using it for the winter and summer. My home is about 2000sqt ft, does anybody know what I should expect to pay for electricity in the winter if I keep it around 68 degrees?
Any help would be appreciated.
make sure to check the specs... i just installed a 18k btu cooling 21kbtu heating in my small house 660 sq ft mostly for ac but liking the heat now but its just November its a fujitsu ducted split system only makes makes 21k btu down to 20 deg but once winter kicks in gonna recirculate heat from woodstove (return is in same room as stove on ceiling) to move heat . what im saying is in the the northern northeast ur still gonna have to burn fuel or baseboard electric heat in the dead of winter.loving the heat pump right now but super new system less than 2 mo and not a real reading on elec bill yet.wishing i got the backlit wired controller upgrade and make sure the installer knows how to set up the controller.ways to have controller read temp and/or return sensor read temp..i'm a electrician and had an hvac guru guide me with what to do and what to get.and outdoor unit is on a bracket 2 feet off ground for snow drift and such
woodstove,oil hot air furnace and this was just added
The system is crap. Don't buy it. I'm in a tiny apartment and the owners took the main heating system out which I knew was the wrong move. All they had to do was add an extension so the room would heat evenly but instead, they took the entire heating out of the room because my bills were so astronomical. Now I'm left with this piece of crap that blows cool air no matter what you set the heat at. It is making me miserable and believe me, I don't need to be more miserable than I already am. There are cold spots everywhere. The apartment is about 500 SF and will not feel warm no matter what I do.
F y i... with a wood stove burning you're going to have a very significant constant loss of your conditioned air. The volume of air vented to the outside through the flue of that stove has to come back in from somewhere. That stove fuels itself with oxygen from within your structure. And if your structure is too airtight without sufficient ventilation Supply, you will have combustion draft problems which will cause an incomplete combustion of what you're burning in your stove. And that can cause a hyper production of carbon monoxide! This, coupled with Backdraft through your stove flue pipe, can kill you! C 0 is known as the silent killer. It is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Very dangerous stuff . You don't know it's there until you're affected by it. Which is why all new fuel burning Central type furnaces have an induced draft system built into them which supplies fresh combustion air from outside the structure to feed the fire. Hence the trade title name of HVAC. Heating... ventilating... Air conditioning. If done right, it's great. If not, it can be deadly.
Jose, there are many factors involved in determining how efficiently a system will operate. Type of structure, how well it's made, doors windows and insulation, exposure, Etc. I would recommend you contact a professional
Your DNS address for your comparison-cost link is broken for me. :(
+Elizabeth Collins Yes, sorry, I stopped maintaining that site a while ago. There is a new table at my main website: greatlakeshomeperformance.com/how-much-cheaper-is-it-to-run-a-heat-pump-than-an-lp-boiler/
Matt KnowsThat Thanks!
164 watts can't be? For something that is so energy efficient? Must be a compressor heater, which would mean above a certain temp heater should be off.
Your HSPF is 12.0 and that’s only if you live in Climate Region 4. More northerly states and Canada are Climate Region 5. Divide rated HSPF by 1.15 to determine colder climate performance number. Thus, Climate Region 5 HSPF is 10.4. I highly recommend that you do not interrupt the communication link by means of a wall switch to the outdoor unit. Better to disconnect high voltage at the breaker and restore power 24 hours before you intend to use the unit again.
Is it cheaper to run than the boiler or no?
yes. most definitely.
well done...
So can a mini split heat pump be used as main source of heating in Michigan I'm from MICHIGAN also !?
I believe so, if properly fitted (BTU's) to your house. You may need to use your original heat system as back up for the more extreme cold days. That is what I am planning on (in MI) too. Installation is often a rip off though. Other parts of the world pay hundreds to have them installed, not thousands.
So did you realize before you installed the system that you'd STILL be wearing a heavy wool sweater to stay comfortable in your own house during the chilly winter months?
Yikes!! I think I'll stick with just seeing about running baseboard. Was hoping it would be cheaper. Thank you for the video!
heat pumps are about 3 times more efficient than electric baseboard.. the HSPF rating is i think 3.4 on electric baseboards, and 10-13 on heat pumps.. i just switched to all heat pumps from electric heat, on paper it should be much more efficient. only real world experience will tell. Im heating/cooling over 3000 sq ft. hopefully these systems get me below my solar panel production.
@@SubStationSparky I should have noted that they're hydronic baseboard not electric.
@@standepain we have that in Europe but wall radiators. not as pretty but great. small 900 sq ft house 12" thick walls, 9'clgs. 1 nat gas unit boiler for hot water/heat. it's been great. less than $100/mo, and energy here is expensive. btw i designed/built a house in Vancouver, BC. '89. you got a deal if the house was all elect! all the heat elect base bds. was cheap too! lol
I've just started getting bids on the mini split. Some of the websites say to clean the filters every 2 weeks! Is that true?
Yeah my Mr Cool 2 ton unit is the same way but after 2 weeks, the filter still looks spotless
no. not my experience. we only use it a few months in summer though. once a year. easy to do.
These [ductless] systems are only good choices as primary heat for extremely well insulated dwellings with excellent double/triple glazing. These systems are good choices as only supplemental heat source for dwellings with not ideal insulation and glazing.
Some of the reasoning:
1. heating testing is done at around 40 and 20F. Lower values are extrapolations. Below 20F the efficiency drops drastically. This can be seen in the graph starting around @.
2. costs are higher than oil heat, unless [state] electricity costs are very low.
3. Heat is expelled from the head at the ceiling and must be pushed down to the living space by the weak fan. This will not be [efficiently] successful because heat rises and the "whisper quiet" fan is not sufficiently powerful to overcome the thermal forces and other heated air distribution issues.
4. Heat sensor is in the head at the ceiling where the temperature is much higher than at the center height of the room, or at the floor. Therefore, comfort is a great challenge. A $250 programmable thermostat for each head is a must.
5. Well skilled/educated contractors [in heat pump technology] are extremely difficult to find. Without a well skilled designer/installer, the project is a failure "waiting to happen". Buyer beware!
6. Mechanical noises are annoying and distracting. Vibration noises from outside units will be present if the outside unit[s] are mounted on the exterior wall.
One thing no one has mentioned compared to a typical conventional Heat pump, the new mini split technology while much much more efficient, the repair cost is 3 to 5 times higher. I work in the HVAC industry for 35 years now and if you lose a condensing motor on a conventional system, the average cost to replace is around $300.00 .......on a mini split, when the $450.00 condensing motor fails it also takes out a $900.00 board, one of 3 that are located ion the condenser. Everyone needs to understand this when making a decision on Mini split technology.
RobVoyles: Your comments made me have a second thought on purchasing a mini Split system. I was under the impression that Daikin for example, offers 12 years warranty . Does not this also covers the $450.00 condensing motor and that $900.00 board? Compared to a traditional electric HVAC system, a Ductless Split System generally has a longer life when maintenanced properly. A traditional electric Heat Pump average life expectancy is 15 years, with proper maintenance. A Ductless Split system average life expectancy is 20 years with proper maintenance. That is what I read from this link www.servicetodayinc.com/services/heating/mitsubishi-ductless-heating-systems
Cost is now .15/ kwh from consumers energy in Michigan..arg!!
I will be viewer # 89 to mention the compressor ghost load issue just to irritate you.
Anyone who wants a quick number in dollars; just skip to 2:50. But how much space are you heating?
Sump and pan heaters. Lol don’t turn it off
You do not want to turn that system off you will ruin your compressor
69 degree is cold
Way too fkn technical. How much does it cost to run it ? Period.