6 Years of Savings from Mini-Split Heat Pump in Cold Climate
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2020
- This is the sixth heating season with our mini-split heat pump system in the cold climate of Mid-Michigan. We sold our house and are getting ready to move, so I made one last video about our system after calculating the savings. Overall, this system saves us $958 per heating season compared to our LP boiler. Over six years, that's a total of $5748! We only paid $4100 to have it installed, so it paid for itself in about four years.
We did have two service issues over the years however. The first one was a bad, leaky indoor coil. It was covered by the manufacturer's warranty, so it didn't cost anything out of pocket. The second issue was a dirty coil which needed to be cleaned. We paid an $85 service call to have the coil cleaned, but you could buy the cleaner yourself and save the money of the service call. Here is an affiliate link to a cleaning kit you can buy on Amazon: amzn.to/2N22VYf
If you think you might want to try to install one of these systems yourself, instead of calling a contractor to install it, you can buy a complete system and install it yourself: amzn.to/36Rc8L5
Don't forget the added benefit of having A/C in the summer. I'm sure it also made your home more attractive to buyers when you went to sell it.
Europe here. As somebody mentioned before, mini-splits are the default form of AC/heat pumps sold (unlike the USA there are no cooling-only units sold). They're a really popular choice here for older buildings without central heating, weekend houses, and even a lot of houses use them for heating nowadays. Worth noting most people use single-zone systems; multi-splits are rare.
Most ACs (we call any air-to-air heat pump an "AC") do the cooling pretty well, but it's the heating that really sets apart a good AC from a Chinese unit. Nothing against the Chinese units (hell there is one Chinese AC that proved itself repeatedly to be a great option for heating) but the Japanese still are the boss.
A list of what I'd personally recommend:
1. Mitsubishi Electric. By far the top dog when it comes to heating. Anything that supports a "VGHZ" HyperCore outdoor unit is worth a buy. Twin rotary compressor, pan and compressor heating and an insanely well adjusted PCB that allows for 100% operation down to -15°C and stable operation down to -25°C.
2. Panasonic. The AC of choice here is the KIT-VZ12-SKE Hypercharge. Goes down to -30°C of efficient heating and is also the only unit to blow continuously warm air even when defrosting. Only downside is somewhat worse efficiency than the Mitsu HyperCore.
3. Fujitsu. Any Fujitsu. KM, LL and LU have proven themselves to be really great units, though nowhere as fancy as a Mitsu or Panasonic Hypercharge.
4. Gree Amber Premium. Best the Chinese can offer. It's got somewhat worse modulation on cooling than any of the other units on the list but when it heats it's an absolute monster.
Minisplits are becoming better and better as time goes on. Now some units are special made for heating and partial cooling so cooler climates have more access to the minisplit market.
Thanks for the info, I've been looking at these for a while now!
This is a very good analysis of your system’s costs and benefits. I’m really impressed and I’m a professional energy manager
Great video. I actually live in the mountains of North Carolina in Avery County. I'm about to install a mini split in my 400 square feet woodworking shop.
Thanks for the information.
In my home country in Europe, we use these mini splits a lot due to the fact that we cannot run ducts (our houses are made with concrete and brick). Usually we place one in each room, connected to one outdoor unit. Obviously each wall unit will be sized according to each room’s square footage.
Same as japan, and typically the home in asia is much smaller compared to the US. Running ducts will be very costly
Same in Hindustan
almost anywhere outside the USA.
Even the smallest unit is much oversized for a small room like a bathroom. Did you skip the mini split there? If yes, do such rooms feel much colder? Thanks.
Excellent video, great detail. I lived in the UP and was laughing thinking it wouldnt work from October until May ha ha. Be well.
Excellent video. Great style. Thanks for the info.
I'm in Central Michigan as well! This video is exactly what I needed to make my purchase decision, thank you.
@mich torrie working well. Only had to use the heat option once so far, but it worked well
@@bigdougdog so how low temp will your unit still produce good heat? I'm in Kalkaska.
@@jasonjohnson3424 technically it can produuce heat down to a -13 but its not efficient at that temp. About 10 degrees is where I wont use it anymore as it starts to auto shut off afyer extendes use so it can defrost, even though ive nevee seen b up ld up. 35 degrees is for us where it stops being cheaper than running our natural gas furnace. But that all depends on the rates of electric and natural gas for your area. We bought ours theough alpine home air online. Installed it ourselvs too. Just had to use a buddies vacume pump.
@@bigdougdog u stop using it at 10 degrees? That sounds like every day of winter. Lol
@@jasonjohnson3424 yup. These would not likely be you primary heat source in michigan. For me its an AC in the summer mainly, secondly its a mony saver in the fall and spring, amd terciarilly its a back up incase my furnace goes down in the winter and I want a way to keep the house from freezing.
Nice story and good to hear how well it has worked out for you. I have 3 mini splits in my full electrical house plus the wood stove so my saving is a little different. Before the mini, I just used electrical floor board heaters. Those ran a pretty buck over the season. Now, I have a 115V -9K BTU mini split turned on 24/7 at 70 degrees in my son's room and the electrical draw is so little, I dont see the difference on my monthly bill. However, I also have an 18K BTU in the main floor and plus a 12k BTU in the master beddroom, both tied to a 230v- 30K BTU condenser outside. This is a different story. I have had to learn how to use it in the most effective way possible because keeping it on 24/7 Is defintely not an option with the electrical draw. I warm the house with the wood stove then run the mini to maintain the temp. At other times, I run the mini to warm up the house then let the wood stove keep the heating thereafter. It has worked out so far but still learning how to use it and watching my electrical usage til I get this down packed. Still experimenting and learning. Thanks for sharing your story.
We’ve had high tech and smart inverter mini splits in Asia for decades.
I’m glad that Americans are finally able to experience the same stuff from here.
Quiet, cool, easy on the wallet, and reliable. Well, at least in my experience (Hitachi and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries)
Yep I don't know why it took us this long to adapt it. Most likely because our houses are built differently.
@@AJ-ox8xy they don't service easily and like you said, built different. It's easy to run ductwork in stick built. Plus, we've been doing it for a hundred years. A dumb condenser and dumb air handler take minutes to fix and parts are cheap. These... you'll end up replacing the whole thing if you can't troubleshoot and replace parts yourself...IF a tech even agrees to work on it.
these mini splits don’t circulate air, it gets stale in winter.
Air is not filtered, not as good as traditional air handler.
Air handler is in garage or basement, low risk of damage to wall/flooring if there is water leak.
Natural gas is cheap in USA, every home has natural gas piped to home, unlike India, don’t know about other Asian countries.
I am not sure where the cost savings are from, heat pump heater ?
If it is true then I can keep existing air handler & replace my AC unit with heat pump.
Thank you for a thorough and concise review. This adds one more positive check mark for these new heat pumps (for us in USA) over oil or liquid propane. I'm looking at the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat system...
That's a good one - I have a 42k BTU 5 head unit hyper heat from Mitsubishi. Using it since April this year and been happy this far.
@@shreyasdube Thanks for your comment. I recently spoke with a supplier/installer company. They are claiming that 5-6 mini-splits should run off of 3 condenser units. I pushed back on that. I think two units will be sufficient. Part of the reason for them wanting more could be related to the design temperature of -12F/-24 C. Do you mind sharing which condenser unit you have? Have you had any super cold days yet this late fall, and how's it working? Thanks.
@@PaoloFrancesco99 For context, I live in the Boston area, 1500sqft house built in 1929, had it insulated, but still quite leaky.
I have 5 indoor units (MSZ-GL 2x06, 2x09 and 12) and one outdoor unit (MXZ-5C42NAHZ2-U1). The outdoor one is 2 fans on top of each other (not sure if that counts as 1 or 2 units). I feel like the system is oversized for my house - in summer the smaller rooms would overcool, fall time it feels adequate, haven't seen it struggle with heat yet - this depends on a bunch of factors. The best advice I read online was to use a constant setpoint vs trying to overly adjust for home vs work vs sleep. This way, the system just has to maintain a fixed setpoint vs trying to ramp up quickly to heat or cool.
Have only had this since April this year so can't talk about performance during peak winter months. We've had a few sub-32F days and the system worked fine. Setpoint is 68F 24x7 and max electric consumption is about 2kWh/hour (so at most 50 kWh/day).
I also have a gas steam boiler that the house came with, which I didn't take down. I'm hoping I never have to use it. Will take it down after a couple of winters once I'm convinced the heatpump can handle heating by itself.
@@shreyasdube Thanks for sharing this information. Much appreciated.
I bought the Fujitsu halcyon mini split a few years ago for my brand new house. 650 sq ft with vaulted ceilings but super insulated. It heats entire house in the winter for 75$ which includes lighting and other electric use. And cools in the summer for like $30. Northeast Ohio
How many btu is your system?
That’s a bargain ! I’m in Portugal where electricity is amongst the worlds most expensive. I appreciate your prices though, nice to compare
How big of a unit did you buy ? Thank you
@@maxflight777 China owns the electric company in Portugal. Sad!
@@Summer-bo9rw gosh ! A tad frightening...
Cheers. Living in the Southern Sierra Foothills is the perfect place for this. We very rarely have a winter day that doesn’t get up to fifty. Right now today it’s 90 in my living room. We used Evaporative coolers for years and years because it’s SO DRY. But as we age the heat gets harder to ignore. I’m calling a guy recommended by a friend to get this done tomorrow. It was 114 today. But it’s a dry heat….lol. 97 in our Bathroom. We basically live in a “wind Room” in July and August. My friend and his wife had these installed an lives in a 72 degree home. And their electric bill went DOWN. God Bless
If it's so hot and sunny combine the system with a small plug in solar system. They're dirt cheap and cover your extra electricity needs when the sun is out and the HVAC is running.
I am putting some in our apartment complex. I am excited!
Will it supply heat to the tenants or will you have an additional unit?
@@synewparadigm both
@@gnosticawareness so now you have maintenance for a conventional heating and a split for each tenant?
It does not makes sense.
Welcome to NC! My wife and I live in Mount airy NC (Mayberry) and are putting A mini split system in to replace our current heat pump. We bought this house this past summer and I found out that the heat pump was 26 years old! Going with a mini split saved us a ton of money (our 2 ton system was $1328, but I am installing it myself). I love mini splits. The one we got will cool down to -13, which is way cooler than it gets here.
Great job! The NC Climate is absolutely perfect for mini systems.
We live up the mountain from Mt airy. The change in altitude is usually about 10 degrees cooler up here. The newer heat pumps are good except for the single digits and wind! I installed a split system heat pump with high efficiency (96%) propane furnace instead of electric strip heat, in my shop. It works great.
Purchased: August 2023 - still works GREAT!I ruclips.net/user/postUgkxxsUnXhGsSJLim_XnMHyQK0u3XVaW-CGn live in a studio and during the summer it gets scorching hot - really old building with no ac units. I can’t express how EASY it was to install. This unit has been a life savior during the summer and some days during other seasons where it can still be a bit warm at night. In this small place is my friend, a husky, poodle mix and myself. We need AC - lolI don’t use the dehumidifier option - I’m not sure if it will leak in my house, since I did not install the small draining hose that came with it. May look into it late but I don’t worry about much humidity in the apartment. I don’t understand why the negative reviews since all things mentioned, I personally did not find issues with. Definitely worth it!
Im also in Michigan (northern) and have 1 12k pioneer unit and love it for my attached home office. It works below zero but is probably more optimized for above zero.
I am ready to buy a 36k tri head unit for the rest of the house. Hopefully im oversized to make up for older house walls and will make ample amounts of heat.
I bet your saving even more now. They had been using oil heat at office at my work until 2 months ago, even then it was up to $6 a gallon and about $700 to fill the tank, it is now probably over $7. We paid $799 and I installed it, it paid for it self the first time we didn't need the oil tank refilled. It also heats the office much faster even though it's only 1/3 the BTU (19k vs a 65k oil furnace), but the furnace likely blew a bunch of heat out the exhaust. We also have 2 mini splits in our house now, with a forced air electric furnace our power bill got to $500 this winter, this should cut it nearly in half next year. Plus we now get excellent AC as a bonus in the summer.
We are building a small house this summer. We are gong to have mini splits installed and also install a natural gas fireplace. I think it will be a smart decision. I honestly do not like ducted systems. with a unit in each room, we can keep the temperature according to need in that room vs. a traditional furnace that does not have that capability.
Hi Matt, i enjoyed your video as we are going to install mini-splits in our home, and i was wondering what make/brand did you purchase? thanks Brian in Wisconsin
Thank you for the video. you never mentioned the size of your house
your boiler expansion tank is installed upside down. The sealed and pressurized bladder which separates the compressed air from the variable water pressure, should be on the top. It will wear out faster if it is installed on its side or hanging from the inlet, as it is.
In the correct orientation, with the air on top, when it does develop an internal leak (eventually they all do), it will continue to function for quite a time (untill the air is absorbed by the water....years.) Also, it should have a metal strap on it, affixed to a support structure, to remove weight from the pipe. It's putting stress on the joints.
Since your installer didnt know this, I wonder if the air pressure has been set correctly, to match the system pressure PSI? Ther's a nipple on it to check. They need adjustement ocassionally. Im not sure how to check your system pressure. but thats how bladders/expansion tanks work. Im not a tech, just what I've read. Might be worth investigating.
Could you give us some idea of how maintenance the inside unit requires yearly? It seems some people think this needs done a lot while others not so much. Did you clean your filters monthly?
Getting one this spring for ac! I also have a boiler.
That's my arrangement! It's worked very well except for three or four weeks over the past five years when we had a few hours in the AM with below zero tempture. I chose to bring the hot water baseboard heat on line untill it got above 10 degree. I think I can make do with just the mini split running at zero temps but at about 15 degrees the cost is about that of running the oil fired boiler .
My reason for installing the Mitshubishi was for summer cooling. I had no expectations it would reduce my HVAC cost over 50% year over year AND make my wife happy over absence of mildew in the summer. These things are HUMIDITY slayers !
$$$ figures: 2014-15 Hvac cost $1,800.00. oil was $3.85 (ouch)
2015-2020 $650 to $700.00 yearly.
Installed one three years ago because it was the only AC unit that would work with our casement windows. Didn't even think to use it in the winter. This winter I had it running all winter to lower my use of the propane boiler. Adding more heat pumps this year. With climate change our NH winters are only going to get milder.
So you never turn it off and switch to LP on your own due to loss of efficiency at certain temps (say, 20 degrees or below)? You always wait till it turns itself off? In other words, is it still more efficient than LP until it shuts off on its own?
Enjoy the heat in NC :)
Is it still working? I've heard they only last about 10 years. Mine only lasted 8
What are the dimensions of the indoor unit?
you said mini split cost $57 per home during cold season. That sounds very low. How many hours did it operate per day? How do you calculate it? I have a 9,000 btu Mitsubishi Mr. Slim mini split. Can you teach me how to calculate my cost to run heap pump per month?
Who did the install? I'm also in twin cities metro.
Nowadays the performance numbers are a third higher than this line of splits. I am a fan of Mitshubishi but these cheeper units may fit your needs and except for a few features the units perform similarly.
One thing about the savings he had is because "propain" is 2.5 times the cost per million btu's compared to natural gas and as of May 2020 and 3.5 time the cost of oil per million btu's . Around my area a 5 lb "propain" tank refill is $30.00 and home delivery not much cheeper.
Now take a look again at the prices and the whole thing shifts again.
Even better with a solar system and net metering
Not everyone is hooked up to a natural gas line. It's not like people make the choice to be on propane over natural gas. In either case they produce methane leaks and fossil fuel combustion which contributes to climate change. Switching to heat pumps saves money and lowers ones carbon footprint.
I am going with the Mitsubishi hyper heat mini split good to -13 below
At the time you bought your mini split 15 degrees was low. But now the technology is better and they are even more efficient.
Did you ever point a thermal gun to the head while it was running at 15 degrees or so to see what temperature was being blown out ?
I measured 109°F on the coldest day and I think it was -13°F outside. My unit was NOT a low temp unit, so it was not operating at high efficiency or full capacity, but it was still providing plenty of heat. The ratings are based on delivered BTU and efficiency within an acceptable range, but that doesn't mean they shut down and stop. If you're getting a low temp unit, it will probably keep putting out heat well below the label specs. It starts to lose capacity however and may not have the BTUs to meet the demand of the space. That's when my boiler would kick in and make up the difference.
I have a Mitsubishi mini split and noticed when it wasn't snowing, even in winter, my bills were much lower than when it snowed. The outside compressor ran at higher and louder speeds during periods of snow. A couple other videos suggested it was important to have a roof over the unit.
To my shock I discovered even at 32F in Michigan with no breeze the unit was sucking in the slightest snow and sleet and clogging the compressor fins, hence, the compressor had to work harder. Likewise my usage jumped from 463 with less snow fall in Nov-Dec to 763 for Dec-Jan with roughly the same snow fall but 2 degrees colder temperatures.
Admittedly, if it snows and the temperatures go above 32 it doesn't seem to be an issue. Having said that, since putting a floating roof over the unit to shield it from sucking in snow, the compressor has not run at higher speeds, even with temperatures in the low 20's. It runs almost whisper quiet outside now. I will be curious as to what difference it will make on my bill. ***I should add, my home is 230 square feet.
@@benbrown8258 230 sq ft?
Your savings would greatly depend on your electricity cost. NY has some of the highest utility rates in the country.
it's still miles better than propane in upstate NY
They are very cheap to operate I can attest to that. Even better for moderate temperature climates like where I live. I dont miss the expensive electric forced air furnace at all.
Thank you. We never thought about heat pump. Do people use it in high deserts? We get snow at 5000 feet, NM. Best regards.
I think these would be perfect for a high desert climate. just be sure to install the outdoor unit on the shady side of the house.
@@MattKnowsThat Best wishes on your new life in North Carolina.
New Mexico would do better with a heat pump over a place like Montana, so this would be perfect for you in my opinion.
@@AJ-ox8xy No reason not to use one in Montana especially a hyper heat model that operates at 13 below zero
Home Depot has the BBJ Ductless Mini Split First Aid Kit for about $35 if Amazon is out.
In the 6 years you had your mini split, how many times did you have to deep clean the system? Cleaning the evaporator coils/blower wheel inside your wall unit? The condenser as well?
I paid to have it done the first time and did it myself the next two times, so basically every other year, but we had no carpet and very little dust in our house. The first time we did it was because it was dripping condensation out the front of the unit.
I have a cottage that needs heat. In Canada the temp can drop to -30 Celsius. I wonder if this will be enough or should I supplement with baseboards and a real wood fireplace.
The ccASHP's work very well up here. I had one in my cottage on Lake Scugog best thing I ever did. Make certain the you install one thats at least 22 Seer and above 10 hspf. I had a couple of dimplex baseboard heaters for back up but I can't recall that they ever came on regardless of the temperature. (the heat pump wa an LG and is still operating flawlessly.)
@@davidproskin1752 this is the most insightful reply ive ever received. thank you very much! i will surely follow your lead
Nice
How many square feet was your house and did it keep it really comfortable I'm thinking about buying the 36,000 btu toshiba mini split my house is 1400 square feet
It depend where you live (how cold is the winter). It also depend how well insulated and air tight. In Canadian winter, 36 000 btu would be way to big for a 1400 sf house. A competent hvac tech in your area would know.
What did you use as a backup heat source in case of a power outage?
We had a 10kw LP generator that would automatically run the whole house, including the mini split, the backup boiler, and our LP fireplace with a fan. The fireplace would do 35,000 BTU at 87% efficiency.
What is the layout of your house? I really wonder how does ONE miniplit circulate the hot air throught the home, considering corners, doors etc. Thank you!
Ours was a very long skinny ranch house with the bedrooms at the end. In the very extremes of air conditioning season, we'd set a small fan in the hallway to give the air a little boost back to the master bedroom, but it was never bad. The mistake many people make is turning the temperature up and down or taking a couple days off running it and opening the windows on a nice day. The system would loose momentum as the humidity would soak into all the furniture and wood floors and it would take several days to recover. Air source heat pumps are made to run long and slow but continuous.
If you have a more complicated layout, you can get more head units including some ceiling mounted ones called cassettes. They also make some which have small duct runs. I see Habitat for Humanity use mini splits with one head in the main area of the house, and one ceiling mounted ducted unit in the hallway with a supply duct dumping into each of the bedrooms.
@@MattKnowsThat Superb answer. Much appreciated
My electric usage has been cut in half by switching to mini splits
Dang, I just saw this video after using the whole tank of heating oil in one month 😢 that's $1600 in heating alone. The temperature set for the vacant property was 55F and it used the whole tank. Now I have to select this house since I can't afford to spend tha I h money$1,600 x 4.
Now it's 2022 and I live in the Catskills. I just found out that #2 oil will cost $5.25 gallon, guess what I just ordered? Since I built our house I have the expertise to install the system myself. I figure with rebates it will cost us about $1400 or the price of filling the tank once. I still don't know how well it will work at lower temps but I can always fall back on the boiler in emergencies and I do have a high efficiency wood stove. Also I have 58 PV modules and battery back up so I essentially run off grid and charge my EV. I do have some left to run the mini split some days.
They have new PV mini splits work directly off of Solar they plug right in they take 1000 -1200 watts of solar 4 -320 watt solar panels EG4 mini splits
Update July 2023:
Our min split is so efficient that I'll save the cost of over oil this next heating season, not only that, we just had a heat spell and the mini split cooled and dehumidified the house from sunshine.
Just bought another mini a couple of days ago.
@@seanbaxter9993 I heard about them, maybe I'll get one for the shop.
How was it for cost of air conditioning? What brand do you have?
Far better than window units. Sips electricity. Fujitsu.
So what do you do when our drops below 10 degrees here in MI? Especially when it drops below 0 here in Michigan?
Most units offer backup electric resistant heater for those times the heat pump can not operate. Many units like the Mitsubishi Hyperheat can still operate down to -13f or -20f. You can also do as this video suggest and keep your existing system for backup.
$4,100? That’s a lot. In other countries you can get one with installation for less than $1,000 total.
HOW MANY degree-days in your heating season???
Was just under 7000
@@MattKnowsThat NOW I DRAG that info out of you. SHOULD be FIRST on the VIDEO!!!
How does the single head do on cooling/heating whole house? I have a 650 square foot house and am trying to avoid two heads
What solution did you choose?
@@GlossaME I did a single 18k and it does a wonderful job, just leave the bedroom door open and whole house stays cool/warm
@@Bajaheat Much appreciated
Did you completely replace your old heat and use the mini-split a 100% primary heat? If so, did you buy a Hyper Heat system? Otherwise, I'm told standard heat pump mini-splits shut down at about 20 degrees F. HyperHeat systems claim -4 (Gree and others) and -17 degrees F (Mitsibushi).
Ours would continue to operate down to about 9° or so before it would stop. The 20° mark is where it starts losing efficiency. Once the efficiency drops off, you have to determine if there is a cheaper alternative, but for our system, it was still cheapest to run it until it shut down. After that, our boiler would kick on and heat the house with LP. We simply set the boiler thermostat at 65° and if the mini couldn't keep the house at 68°, then the boiler would take over.
I tested out my Fujitsu Halycon during the last polar vortex. It kept going down to -13.
What is the sq ft of your house? This is the first account of mini-splits actually saving money in heating costs. All other in midwest is they cost more to run.
The house was 1680 square
@@MattKnowsThat Wow, nice that you only needed one head. The HVAC guys in my area want to put a head in each room in my house. I think overkill.
How much is one kwh and delivery charge total ?
Do you mean what is our utility rate? It was about .14 per KWH and $19 per month access because we lived in a rural area with an electric co-op.
@@MattKnowsThat what model was capable of going down to - 15? Thinking about adding one to our cabin in the Alpena area!
Here in Missouri where we get freezing winter's.i"m building a 1600 sq.ft..one level open concept. Bedrooms separate from main open living room and kitchen.
I like the thought of no duck work... And were insulating walls floors and roof.
Does these new units to me ,heat and cool efficiently?
Were conservative and i like cooler winter and warmer summer temps inside.
Wonder if this is for us?
They are highly efficient. I would go with a reliable brand though, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, or Fujitsu. Don't be tempted by the cheaper junk.
living inside he sure has a lot of cloths on they night work for 1 room but you need to add other units for other room cost goes up power bill go up
just got a massive double 48,000 BTU Mitsubishi Hyper heat system installed in my home. 8 heads total. it's an old farm house that has a horrible and inefficient propane furnace system. because of the ineffective way the duct work was installed (3 out of the 4 bedrooms upstairs have no ductwork at all), i was paying $1000 a month in propane bills. I live in Upstate NY and the winters can be nasty.
I just had this system installed and now i have heat in every room. No doubt my electric bill will go up but my main goal is to make the biggest dent possible in that propane bill. plus i have the nice bonus of central AC which i've never had in my life.
it made sense to me because of the way the house is and the fact it's propane. If it was natural gas it may not have been worth it. Even if i cut the propane bill in half ($500/month) the system will pay for itself in 5 or so years.
I'm south of Buffalo NY and put a 18k BTU minisplit in my 24x36 garage shop. Kept it comfortable all winter. Made heat at -8F
So; run the boiler on induction!
Hi, what did it cost you out the door, installed, I can’t find which video that’s included. Thanks
My total was $4100.
I am glad to hear that you saved $5,100 over the 6 years, more than the cost of the heat pump!
Anyone with a oil furnace should buy and install a heat pump as soon as they can, because the cost of oil and propane is going to be much higher this winter!
To get 100,000 Btu's of heat into your home, you can: Burn about a gallon of diesel fuel oil heater, or use 23 KW of electric heat, or burn about 1.3 gallons of propane or 1.3 therms of natural gas or for the lowest cost option, use about 5-7 KW of electricity to run a heat pump!
Heat pumps are always going to be the low cost option!
Mini split units are so much more energy efficient than a fixed speed compressor unit. Also because they can speed up the compressor, many times to 120 Hz, or double the normal compressor RPM, they can compress more refrigerant, and thus make more heat - even on the 10F days!
For your old house, I would suggest a second unit, perhaps 9,000 Btu's in the master bedroom, to heat that end of the house, and especially on the very cold days, to avoid running the boiler at all, except perhaps during a very cold storm at night. Daytime the temperature gets warmer, so it should provide more heat then.
I might also suggest a propane stove / heater. Yes they make them, with a oven like box that is vented outdoors, and the ability to remove the top cover and use the heat exchanger to cook with by placing a pan on the heat exchanger during a power outage. They use a thermocouple, much like your water heater, and not 120 volt electricity to run the gas valve. They are not as energy efficient as the furnace is, but the main advantage is they can run without needing 120 volt power to the gas valve or any pumps or fans.
What brand system do you have
He said Fujitsu
Did I miss what size his house is?
was 1680 sq ft upstairs and about 700 downstairs. Although the downstairs was not directly serviced by the mini, it was open through a stairwell.
BTW, this video was from a long time ago, much has changed since then and I no longer live in that house.
I live in Quebec, Canada and just move to a house with a heat pump. Cold weather started this week with a -15C to -20C real feel. As first experience with a heat pump I left it turned on for 3 days in a row and typical electrical heating system at the bottom of the walls are not turning on while heat pump is running, I believe is great, but don't know if it is optimal doing this non-stop. Do you have your heat pump running non-stop during the winter? Any advice?
In most cases if you are dealing with those temperature lows you want an additional supplemental heat source. This will keep your minisplit working well as it takes some of the work off it and more importantly, if the condenser needs to defrost, which most heat pumps need at least once a winter. The supplemental heat will keep your house semi warm and provide the heat to help the heat pump defrost.
You could look into adding heat strips to your unit or if you can, add a wood stove so you get some natural heat that you can circulate through your house.
Air conditioners and heat pumps are sized and designed to run non stop when the extreme hot and cold design conditions exist. You would kind of be defeating the purpose of the heat pump by running electric resistance heating strips along with the heat pump. You should only use them on days when the temperature falls below 68F even with the heat pump running full throttle.
I talked with the manufacturer, and confirmed that they can be turned on during winter non-stop! However, as my heat pump/AC is for 12,000 BTU (-15C) it won't be so optimal after -20C because it will be perform many defrosting cycles, but not trouble at all. An energy inspector told me that I should upgrade for a 18,000 BTU heat pump to heat more my house, but I am already satisfied of my first floor but still something to do on my basement. Planning to buy a second heat pump or installing a ventilation system. Thank your for your answers.
the only problem is you can only heat 1 area you have to add for other rooms then the cost goes up for add on then the cost goes up
4100$ install seems a little steep...
Not at all. That’s a good price
how is an electric split save more money than a gas furnace? it seems unbelievable. can someone ecplain the science as to why
He uses propane to heat the boiler, which is usually expensive, natural gas isn't very cheap these days either, heat pump do transfer heat from the outside to the inside, so you pay for transporting heat rather than creating it.
A standard electric heater outputs almost exactly one kw of heat for every one kw of electricity it uses, the tiny difference being noise and maybe even light. One of these heat pumps can output four or more kw of heat for every one kw of electricity they use, and some models way more than that. They don't have to make heat, just bring heat in from outside. It may seem strange considering it might be freezing outside but there is still a lot of heat energy in the air.
That AC unit is not being used by you anymore.
For 18k... you could have installed 4x of the 42 SEER carrier units... and had money to spare. You got ripped off by the contractor. Also it pretty much never makes sense to install a multi zone mini split.... anyway welcome to NC!
Still cheaper to use natural gas
Depends what you’re paying for either.
So you saved 5750 dollars, but not really cause you didn't run it 24/7 and your propane heat wasnt shut off for the 6 years. Plus it cost you 4100 for the heat exchanger. Sounds like you maybe broke even. Seems like a big waste of time.
He said he only used the propane heat when it was below 20 degrees.
Sounds like he did a little better than break even and continued to save money. The only reason he's "stopping" is that he's moving. The new owner will continue to save money, right?
$4100 for that system?!!! You paid like $3200 more than its worth.
Maybe not 6 years ago though...
You have NO idea what you're talking about!!