MASSIVE FF7 REBIRTH TALK w/ Maximilian Dood, TheNightSkyPrince, Schrodingersbabyseal & Sleepezi
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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The Knights of the Round:
Babyseal - www.youtube.com/@schrodingersbabyseal
NSP - www.youtube.com/@TheNightSkyPrince
Sleepezi - www.youtube.com/@Sleepezi
MAX - www.youtube.com/@Maximilian_Dood
Aww I missed it live :(
THEY WERE TITANS
Knights of the round will be portrayed as the cetra knights who fought against jenova during the war of man
I may have missed it, I watched before bed and continued the next day (so maybe fell asleep a little).
There was an April Fool’s joke in which a way to revive Aerith was shown. It involved the debug menu, a cheat code, and the force ghost in the church. I’m wondering if the devs will meta that option in the next game.
Cait Sith = Anti-Tonberry device.
This is basically the Avengers Assemble of FF7 podcasts, and I'm here for it
A little foreshadowing for third part of FF7:R 😂 I wouldn't be surprised if they do an avengers endgame type of final battle
Let's go!
Missing Brad Ellis
This stream was one of the greatest moments of my life. Love you guys.
Well, you guys really make this podcast worth to watching and you guys are the same boards for the 3rd part is making me more exciting for the next game.
Hope you guys make another podcast again after this.
Top ten moment of my life… so much fun being a part of this.
It was great for us too! You guys rock! btw couldn't Glenn be related to someone like Scarlet instead of Cloud?
Surprised noone mentioned the rift in the sky which is almost identical to rift in the background of OG Mideel sequence. Still a believer that all events in Remake and Rebirth are happening during the Mideel lifestream sequence. Like the worlds could be some form of lifestream battle between Sephiroth and Aerith while Tifas is regaining Clouds “true” memories. I would be blown away if in Mideel we see all 5 stamps as the shop owners pets before Cloud falls in lifestream and all this is fragmented memories playing with Cloud.
Good job dude you went deep i loved it
Great job. You paid the respect the decade spanning work the devs have been giving to FF7 deserves.
@@blocksheep4899They mentioned that.
I found this podcast more insightful than the Easy Allies podcast. Felt like the true Knights of the Round table event.
They should reconvene for part 3.
i feel like on easy allies podcast it's one sided. max serious at the whole time, while easy allies wanna jokes and chill, but max not into that jokes
atleast that what i see it
@@ryanindi96That might be because he's focused on conveying his thoughts to people, maybe for the purpose of changing whatever negative thoughts people might have.
When surrounded by people who share your ideas and emotions, you tend to relax more.
Yeah the only one can counter Max is Ben. And unfortunately he left.
@@TheUruse awwww ben left????
he's chill with max in the prev podcast :(
Easy Allies is trash now. Without Ben, Kyle, and Brandon, all the talent is gone
ITS UPON US, THE REUNION... WHEN STREAMERS MERGE
I’m waiting, Maximillian…..
Omg lmao
The FF 7 fan council will decide your fate...
I _am_ the FFVII fan council!
One thing that came up in the Ultimania that I wasn't expecting was.....it implies that the big final boss fight at the end of Rebirth served a actual purpose instead of just being 'the boss fight at the forgotten capital'. It implies that Sephiorth was basically attempting the Reunion but failed as a result of the actions of Cloud, Aerith, Zack, and the party so he flew off deciding to attempt the Reunion at a later point. So, WHATEVER HAPPENED in the ending, it was in direct defiance of what Sephiorth WANTED to happen, and now for seemingly the first time, Sephiorth is on the back foot and has to reorganize his plan. That's an interesting idea. Because Sephiorths plan SEEMINGLY was going to come to fruition at the forgotten capital. NOW it seems the guy has a back up maybe with his interference with Rufus and starting a new war with Wutai, but is kind of......nice? that with the reveal the Reunion was attempted, it seems like, at least for now, a great catastrophe was averted, if only for a little while.
Yeah this make sense to me, You can see sephiroths stupid pout after you beat him with Aerith. The first and only time you see him frown after holding that stupid smug face all remake and rebirth
2:35:55 Aerith essentially castling Zack in 4D chess with Sephiroth is exactly the type of commentary I came here for
What a perfect way to explain it haha
Aerith, sitting across Sephiroth in a chess match: “Come forth my boyfriend, I summon you!”
Aerith is now a Summoner. Move over Yuna.
Wow man, this is THE FF7 podcast for real. Every fan needs to watch this. Literally every content creator who's opinion on the game I respect.
Edit: Also I cant be the only one who burst out laughing when I watched the tutorial video for Aerith's final Weapon Ability lmao. I was like "Really? Thats what we're doing!?"
OMG......this is what I've wanted for years. This is the gamers equivalent of a music supergroup. It's like all the best of the best. Absolutely amazing 👏👏👏👏
New to this channel ( very familiar with Maximillion and NSP ) and just finished listening to the whole thing. Great discussion! Helped me process Rebirth a lot. Thanks
Welcome to the channel, hope to see you around more ❤️. Got plenty of fun hard mode stuff coming this week
Final Fantasy 7 has the best characters in gaming but this are the best characters on RUclips. These guys are sick!
This guy are sick*
I know right? He had ONE job!@@PhilipMller-hs3bp
Incredible stream and discussion! The FF7 avengers cooked and I’m even more excited for part 3 now!!!
Seeing everyone come together and cook the theories is genuinely amazing. I’ve seen Max and Sleepezi’s stuff and the sheer lore and analysis with the ending and other stuff is amazing. Devs have been cooking for decades and it shows.
Thanks for a great stream! This was delightful to watch
2:18:25 This would be a WILD and fucked up think to do to the party and Cloud. I love it.
if you think the devs have had this planned for decades, i got a bridge to sell you.
@@SEPHIR0B It’s more so that after they developed the OG FF7, they’ve been developing the world, themes and concepts throughout the years that keeps building. From the concept of WHAT the lifestream is and what it can do, how the universe functions, planet lifecycles and different WEAPONS, how JENOVA cells work and memetic legacy, etc.
It isn’t that the writers decided they wanted a sequel game right after OG FF7. But rather they’ve been cooking ideas that fit the universe they’ve built and we’re seeing the culmination in the Remake series that pulls from nearly every source material
@@sanddry738they're basically making the game they always wanted to make now that they have the technology and engine to do so now, they can expand the story to higher heights, things that weren't possible in 1997
@@SEPHIR0B They've been working on it since at least 2015. They may not have had the entire story from beginning to end locked in for a decade, but yea they've been cooking.
I’m not sure if this is exactly what NSP was getting at, but when he was talking about Cloud’s great potential. If he was implying that Cloud’s penchant for self-delusion is functionally his superpower, that would be simultaneously hilarious and intriguing.
These guys are the Knights of Round of FF lore and the theory craftering!!!
This was hands down one of the most entertaining and fun podcasts I have ever experienced. I’ve seen every single one of these guys’ videos and seeing them all come together to enjoy and celebrate this phenomenal game is truly something special. I can’t wait for game 3
One thing I just realized was that the digital hexagon effect from the Black Materia is the same effect used in the staff roll of Advent Children's opening.
This most definitely is the long cook. So much obvious and microscopic signposting all over the place. 6 months wouldn't be enough fully digest it all.
Good work dudes! You tackled as much as anybody humanly could and brought up some very interesting perspectives to view the many layers of some scenes.
Yeah! It's called tessalation which seems to represent memories.
Chicken quest was literally the BEST. Also it’s not as hard as people make it out to be. If you mess up just throw the shaker right away and the chicken continues following you. No need to follow it back.
This video was the methadone to my post Rebirth withdrawal. All these guys are respected FF7 savants and hearing them discuss theory is just lovely.
OMG!!!!!!!! THIS finally happened! I am so happy to see you all discussing FF7 theories with Max finally!!! THANK YOU BLTZZ you made my dream come true!
So beautiful to see you all in one space! Legends collide!
Wish you were in on this chat too!
My theory on why Zack was brought into the canon story:
1. All the worlds Zack lived in (and was transported to) are a series of "lifestream branches" created since the first disruption of 'fate' from the ending of Remake. These lifestream branches were created by both Sephiroth and Aerith separately. Sephiroth called it 'worlds', Aerith called it 'dreams', but they are referring to the same thing.
2. The fact that Zack & Cloud teamed up versus Sephiroth happened during Rebirth (rather in the 3rd installment), implies that Zack has an even more important role in the 3rd installment. But what could that possibly be?
3. Remember, one of the most important events in FF7 is Cloud's Lifestream 'awakening' sequence. Originally, it was done solely by Tifa. However, during the Gongaga event, Sephiroth ensured that Tifa's voice "would not reach Cloud anymore". What could happen is at the end of Cloud's Lifestream sequence, Tifa 'believes' she has rescued Cloud. But a last-minute twist happens where everything fails due to Sephiroth's intervention (and further amplified by Cloud's denial with Aerith's death). So, who could help Tifa then?
4. Enter Zack. Since he has basically been in the Lifestream all this time (see point no. 1), he could also enter Cloud's Lifestream (maybe with a little help from Aerith). What could happen is there will be an epic battle (maybe Cloud, Tifa & Zack) versus Jenova/Sephiroth inside Cloud's mind. This battle's epicness could exceed the one in Rebirth.
5. One should ask: after this, it seems narratively, Zack has already completed his 'arc'. That is, to save Cloud from himself and Sephiroth. Everything should come full circle, with the ending where Zack also 'disappears' (just like Aerith at the end of Rebirth after fighting Sephiroth).
This should bring the plot and lore full circle with the OG and AC. Both Aerith & Zack will return to the Lifestream.
Hope this make sense to you.
thats why ive been saying all the time that zack is the real "key" too all of this.
people are forgetting what zack is signifying. he litterally is the embodiment of "choices/freedom"
thing with zack is he would be a surprise variant
sephi do know him, but is belittling him because he is too obsessed with cloud
earith doesnt even know that zack is at play
its true that cloud is still the main dude.
he is the front and center of all of this.
what zack basically would be doing is to double down what he and cloud has done before, but for everyone else and not just for cloud
he would give them the freedom to choose what their future would be and he would fight for them
aka "the price of freedom is steep"
ironically, he would always be the one left behind cause he always is the victim of the joke
also, he doesnt really know what he is doing.
thinking is not his strongest trait.
he just do what he does, zack being zack
about your 1
finally someone realizing that its 7 multiverse is not mcu multiverse.
other term that could be used for it is "timeline" or "time rift" or "a wrinkle in time"
its easier to just think of it as different timelines == different choices
different choices == freedom
sephi is essentially killing off choices, hence limiting freedom.
zack, is the very embodiment of freedom
at the end of it
ac-zack == key-to-freedom zack
ac-aerith == all knowing aerith
1. fan service
Tifa's position continues to decline. Jack takes Tifa's best event.
The only reason is: Fan service
That could make sense. It could also be interpreted as metaphorical for Zacks influence helping Cloud work through his own trauma. Zack literally died trying to save Clouds life after all, Zack has always been influential in Clouds life, mostly in the wrong ways. Clouds copied his clothes, his sword, his fighting style, everything. It would be cool to see for once, Zack influence actually helps Cloud for once. He finally understands what Zack meant by "carry on my legacy".
Gentlemen, thank you for this. Final Fantasy VII is my favorite game of all time and you've all become my favorite RUclipsrs that discuss this game. So this gathering is awesome! Much appreciated!
I really enjoy this stream as it fosters active participation, with everyone enthusiastically sharing information, perspectives, and theories. It's evident that all of you are deeply passionate about this game and eagerly await the next installment. I sincerely appreciate this stream. Cheers!
I do feel like Tifa has to be the important one in the lifestream sequence for Cloud insetad of every Character helping him. This was such a big moment for her character in the og.
I don't want every character helping Cloud in the lifestream however in the book "Maiden Who Travels the Planet" if I remember correctly, Aerith guides Tifa to Cloud's head-space ... so potentially the developers could have both women help out Cloud as a team.
I think that would be beautiful because there's more built with them (Tifa and Aerith) being good friends in the FF7 R games. I'm okay with it just being Tifa too but just thought I'd offer my thoughts.
@@ourfamilyaccount good point
In broad strokes they have to follow the OG. I do like the expansion of the story and how they are bringing it into line with Advent Children slowly over the story.
This was such a fun podcast. I almost forgot that this is meant to be BltzZ's stream! Probably because people like Max's community and everyone ganged up together. It's so nice.
Was playing with an idea about the empty globe of materia:
1. Materia is said to be a collection of knowledge, memories and emotions in the form of an orb.
2. As per AC lore, Sephiroth can re-form himself due to him having planted himself firmly within Cloud's memories.
3. Thus: could the clear materia be used to somehow transfer all of Cloud's negative memories and emotions of Sephiroth into it, effectively making the clear materia a prison, and severing Sephiroth's ability to permanently exist through Cloud after his physical form is defeated?
I don't have words to describe. Ff7 is the only thing I go to RUclips
I consume all of your ff7 content individually. I check for new seal team every other day. I've watched Max's every playthrough and theory/news vid. I've been wanting this for so long. I beamed and laughed for 3 and half hours straight. I came here to say thank God! I almost thought it would never happen. The leading authorities on ff7 hands down. Thanks so much!🎉❤
2:18:50 perhaps thats the reason that Tifa doesn't say anything afterwards.. because she's questioning if Cloud could have done it 🤔 (Considering Cloud already turned on Tifa earlier on, she knows 1st hand how quickly he can turn)
Fun Fact: If you select to skip the Zach Side Story stuff, you miss out on the final date/goodbye between Cloud and Aerith.
Found this out during my hard mode run because I wanted to go through as quickly as possible.
It's really great being a FF7 fan rn. This community is as awesome and passionate (not in the creepy way) as this panel shows. Just an overwhelming amount of positivity which is great and rare on the internet. Subscribed, and looking forward to more good stuff down the line.
You guys talked about expansions and changes to the gameplay in Part 3, and I'm convinced there will be three : 1. Using an ATB bar to swap out a party member. 2. Synergy abilities that involve all three party members. 3. Cloud having some kind of "dark knight to paladin" transformation. That could be Black Materia (Sephiroth)-themed abilities at the start that are then replaced by White Materia (Aerith)-themed abilities or something similar.
I'd be stoked for those first 2 things. I'm ambivalent about #3, but it could be interesting.
My thoughts are, The original Final Fantasy happened... Jenova lost.. Sephiroth lost... now the only way they can succeed is to use the memories of/in the Lifestream to travel back.. then they start making changes using the black Lifestream or Whispers.. each change they make creates a new branch of reality.. they then take the best results of each reality and create a single timeline.. FF7 Remake / Rebirth is this one time line.. thats why Aerith was saved by Cloud and then suddenly was dead.. it was a glimpse of Sephiroth changing what happens on this new perfect timeline to get the best result.. perfect timeline Aerith could sense the other realities because just like Sephiroth, she died in the original story and became a memory, the memory is Omni Aerith.... Omni Aerith existing is why Aerith can sense the different realities, they are linked.. I also believe there are two Sephiroths, one who talks to Cloud in his head (Omni Sephiroth) and one who actually is physical, and i bet these two can sense eachother just like Aerith, and those two are working together to make these changes.... and Omni Aerith is hiding in other timelines and trying to help Cloud by fighting against Sephiroth and Jenova bulding this perfect timeline where Jenova wins.
I had an idea about that panel conversation! It was excellent and the positive vibe was great.
You guys talk about loveless and Genisis briefly, and mentioned the Loveless version in Rebirth was sub titled loveless version G.
I would think this highlight strengthens the idea that the loveless version “G” with focus on the Prisoner as the protagonist is only one way to interpret loveless- coinciding with Genisis who accepts that his role was the prisoner to his own ambitions and his subsequent degradation plus further remaining a prisoner to become a guardian of the lifestream in exchange for Minerva rescuing him from his degradation with him acknowledging Zack’s soldier honor was the correct hero role way. Weiss and Nero collected Genisis at the end of Crisis core, and we don’t see him again until the secret DC cut scene. It’s possible that sometime in between this period Genisis was able to influence an interpretation of loveless centered on the prisoner hence getting credited for version G.
Assuming this logic has merit, The implication of this version G could lead one to question other versions of loveless look? How would loveless look if it focuses on the Wanderer or the Hero? I have my thoughts that Loveless is a predictive prophecy about general character role types all people can fall into after birth, the hero, the prisoner, & the wanderer with there actions in life being like ripples in the waters surface during there life journey once born and the friends being other types of people encountered along the life journey way, and the last chapter being unknown because it’s up to the person to decide how the last chapter will be written. I presume the prisoner is blinded by there own ambitions but wants to do right, the wanderer losses hope in reality and want to change it, and the Hero upholds morals and honor to find the meaning of life in that… or essentially the gift of the goddess that all types are seeking. The war of beast at world end being the weapons ofc, and wigs of light and dark being the truth of what is both good and bad being revealed. Seems to me all three friends can speak the exact same words in the loveless Acts but from different roles it takes on different perspectives.
I think a simple flat understanding of loveless like this makes the rambling of Genisis more palatable, but I have not seen anyone break down a very short concise idea about loveless outside the official crisis core guide interpretation. So basically, I was wondering if any of you guys would have interest speak on the idea of loveless being a predictive prophecy about 3 general characters types as a stretch or a solid theory framework in understanding loveless and Genisis and the gift of the goddess being meaning in life. I know max doesn’t care for the character but maybe one of you other guys could make a loveless breakdown vid for some Genisis appreciation. And stoke some fan base hype for his return.
Idk. I may have missed someone else putting a similar idea out there already but I haven’t seen it broke down like this yet. Maybe I haven’t looked around enough. If so nvm
Man...even moreso than with Part 1, these long discussion videos just don't feel long enough despite being just shy of four hours! I feel like I could listen to these for double that time. Anyway, great fun.
I think it would be so cool if they opened part 3 with the Advent Children fight against Sephiroth. That would let them add all the stuff people like about AC into the game while also grabbing the player's attention immediately and setting up for the eventual reveal that Sephiroth is transcending time and space to achieve his goal.
Also, this is an all star cast for an FF7 discussion and you all did a fantastic job. I've followed everyone on here for quite a while so it was awesome to hear you all bouncing off each other and bringing different perspectives to the discussion. Can't wait for you guys to do this again in the future.
Rosso-km5jn They were talking about ways to add playable AC content to part 3. I think that would be an interesting way to do it and grab the player's attention similar to the opening Zach segment without it derailing the narrative later in the game or being post game DLC.
@@VidWasTaken Opening with AC while also making it coherent to new players would be a difficult task storytelling wise, but if they do it and pull it off it would be nothing short of one of the best intros to any game.
@@ocean_0602it’s already not coherent to newcomers. Might as well go full all out fan service.
I watched you guys live, and you guys were great! It was very intriguing listening to all of your thoughts and theories as to what you think might happen in the third part of the Remake project!
I just wanted to come back and thank you guys for giving me a great 3+ hours! It was really great listening to all the ideas you guys discussed together. I think you guys really are on board with each other very well, as one of you mentioned towards the end of the stream. You guys get along with each other very well and are able to really connect with each other and discuss your guys’ thoughts on what has happened and what your theories on part 3 are.
It was a really fun 3+ hours, so thank you to all of you for that! I especially liked the theories on Cloud’s ultimate potential and what that might mean for his character and for the empty materia.
I will mention one thing, though, that I do think it is still very possible that these theories might not be exactly what happens in part 3, and that I think ultimately the developers are going to do their best to please as many people as possible and deliver the best thing they can. It is absolutely also just as possible that you guys may have predicted part 3 altogether too, though! I mean, these are some deep and meaningful theories you guys discussed, so I think it’s possible you guys may have predicted some deep stuff.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, I think it’s probably for the best that all of us continue to remember that these are theories at the end of the day, and that they may or may not happen in part 3. It’s still very possible that part 3 might follow the original events of the original FF7 very closely, but at the same time, it’s also possible that they might diverge in some of the ways you guys predicted too.
While I think it’s possible that the Remake project might be “linked” to Advent Children differently than many initially think, I think it’s possible it could go either way. It could be taking place after Advent Children, like you guys theorized, but it’s also still just as likely that it’ll lead up to the events of Advent Children the same or mostly the same as the original, I think.
I think you guys have some absolutely solid and amazing theories, though, so I personally am open to whatever the developers decide to do with part 3. I think at the end of the day, I’ll personally be pretty happy with whatever outcome they produce, because while I am perfectly okay if they keep the events the same as the original FF7, I like your guy’s theories a lot too! So, however part 3 plays out, I’m pretty excited, and I’m personally going to do my best to keep an open mind to whatever might happen.
But ultimately, whatever happens, thank you guys for giving us this incredible conversation and allowing us to watch and listen to you guys! I think you guys should absolutely get together again and discuss theories once we eventually get trailers for part 3, like you guys discussed! It would be really great to see all you guys come together again to discuss your thoughts and ideas later down the road too! I certainly hope that you guys do end up meeting together again like this in the future, and you guys can have another ultimate fan theory Reunion (pun intended)! 😁
Never heard of any of these people outside of you and Max, but that's exciting because I've got new creators to check out 🙌🏾
EDIT: Actually realizing I know of NSP from Twitter, but never seen him 'till now 😅
Welcome to the channel bro, you made it just in time. I got some fun hard mode builds coming your way
The best thing about this is that everyone is very knowledgeable but they have strong counterpoints and alternative theories and possibilities.
Because it's kinda easy to agree and just say yeah it'll probably end like that. Then someone jumps in with something else that totally makes sense as well.
The FFVII content creator cinematic universe. Such a trip to see all these dudes in the same conversation
Loving the positivity this group has brought to the FF7 fandom, and also Square Enix take notes on some of the ideas brought up about how to tie this all up, fantastic discussion.
This was AWESOME!!!!! I loved that you are all already talking about getting together again in the future to continue the discussion. I hope to see you all together again once part threes first trailer comes out lol this whole ride for the re-trilogy has been a blast and im so excited for what’s to come. Thank you all for such a fun 3.5 hours!
1:50:00 "Does there need to be more of a payoff" (in regard to Multiverse stuff.)
I basically 100% guarantee to everyone that we'll be getting the "Promised Land" in Part 3, and that will be the ultimate world of hopes and dreams. So how would they do it? Here is my guess:
We're going to be in Jessie's kitchen, her dad Rowan is there, not in a coma. Wedge is digging into his pizza and it tastes "heavenly." Biggs just got back from the orphanage, and Jessie is glad to have everyone around. Then you get dialogue like:
Biggs: "Is Cloud still not here? What is keeping that guy? And the rest of the gang too? They'd better hurry, their pizza's getting cold."
Aerith: "Oh I'm sure Cloud'll be here any moment now."
Wedge: "Besides, we can always keep it warm for him if he's running a little late. What time did you say he's coming?"
Zack: "We'll... He didn't say exactly. But you know him, he'll get here eventually. He always does."
And then after the final boss battle, we'll see Cloud walking down the streets of Sector 7, following the aroma of pizza and potted plants of yellow flowers. And Wedge's cats will accompany them to the front door. Cloud will comment, "Guess this time I'll go through the front door for a change." And you hear Aerith's voice after fading to white "See? I told you he'd come."
Basically, all this many world's stuff... is specifically to set up the idea of the lifestream, a world where hopes and dreams are fulfilled, and you meet your loved ones again in the Promised Land.
😂😂😂
I think when eventually the clear materia fills with clouds memories from the other timelines, he then slots the clear materia into the buster sword (like the black materia at end of rebirth) and it transforms into the fusion sword.
That's how he gets the limit break from advent children.
Like when cloud joins zack to do a the synergy ghost attack in rebirth from another timeline the same will happen when all clouds from different timelines merge in the sword to do the limit break and destroy sephiroth once and for all like in advent children.
Exciting, Funny and Insightful Convo! To see five people sharing their love for this amazing game this way is truly a blessing. Thanks guys!
It would be really cool if we get a moment with Cloud similar to that of God Of War 2018 where after the lifestream sequence he remembers who he is and decides to go retrieve the fusion sword and his AC outfit in a secret area that absolutely no one knew about.
That would be sick. He sees the future and all his other forms that have beaten Sephiroth. Giving him the self reliance and confidence to know he beats Sephiroth.
Even giving the other characters their AC outfits as a revitalized moment would be amazing.
NGL that sounds terrible af
Excellent talk. Puts Easy Allies' commentary to shame, with all due respect; you're an awesome representation of the positive fan base. Thank you.
Last but not least: the point of Cloud is critical. If he was able to impersonate Zack for so many years, the same ability to reinterpret a future self, is excellent. Give me that. I'd buy 3 Part 3s and build a pedestal for them for my children.
Love you guys… great talk… noticed you mentioned knights of the round quite a lot…
Been theory crafting in my own head how this could be implemented into the story myself, so hear me out on this, imagine in part three when the ground opens and the huge weapons are released, the crew gets a radio call on the high wind from Bugenhagen who asks them to return to Cosmo Canyon…
When they get there Buganhagens fancy measuring gadgets have detected 13 unusual points of seismic activity with unusual energy spikes (or however many of the Knights they want to incorporate) scattered around the world, when they investigate the first site they are faced with a Cetra monolith (much like those stone things in FF16), Nanaki translates the text talking about ancient Cetran knights who defeated Jenova, when the stone is touched it transports you to another realm where inside each monolith is a trial where you 1-on-1 (using different characters if you choose to do so like the combat sim trials) the knights in combat one at a time and when you defeat them their power is transferred to the empty materia Aerith gave you in rebirth, so the quest is to gain the powers of every single one of the Knights to fight alongside you with Arthur’s monolith being located at round island where the original KOTR materia was found in OG… maybe a shrine rises out of the ground on round island like the entrance to Gilgamesh Island did… would you put all the knights in one location or would the devs maybe scatter these monoliths across the world encouraging you to use the Highwind as the main mode of traversal and giving you reason to revisit previous areas again…
I don’t know how gameplay wise they could get it to work though, but the devs know what they’re doing. It could be much like the back line command in rebirth or maybe this materia is plot locked but that would annoy some folks if they couldn’t cast it at will, but then it would be too OP like it was in OG, but then I was thinking how often veteran players of OG actually used it, but endgame stuff in OG players either spammed KOTR with Mime to defeat the weapons or just hit everything with Omnislash, the fights were kinda boring then watching KOTR repeat over and over again and if you used them to defeat emerald, the fight would take ages. Maybe when you use it it pulls forth a random knight (maybe Arthur only or a random one) to fight alongside you and it’s only when the summon bar hits zero that every other knight joins the fray in the final attack (like Bahamut’s Giga Flare) but who knows, all the knights had their own affinity where some had melee while others had magic attacks… 👍🏻
Love your fanfic! I am really hoping KOTR are somehow tied to the Cetra knights who defeated Jenova and I could totally see this happening. I love your take on KOTR being a response to the weapons surfacing. Again could totally see it happening
This is the true reunion, when worlds merge, with lvl 4 theory and hindsight to feed the viewers.
This podcast was such a treat. I follow Max on a ton because he and I have so much in common in our opinions on games and his passion is infectious. When that Dood loves something he LOVES it. I've always been aware of each of these guys because I'm a lover of Final Fantasy so it was just a good talk. Good to see NSP and Sky talking to Max. Thank you Bltzz for putting this on.
This whole conversation made me realize that the FF7 Remake trilogy is essentially Evangelion, and I'm super here for it.
This is what it's all about, this was fun to watch and listen to :). The thoughts that were shared here made me look at things differently and look back at scenes that I may not have thought about until now! I hope there will be more of these in the future! Good shit dude :D
Another thing, Nibelheim is filled with Scandinavian and viking references, and the summon is Odin itself- and btw Glenn Lodbrok ? Lodbrok was the most famous "viking" from scandinavia. because of his first son, whose wife he left one day.
Um have you not not realised the ff franchise in its entirety does this with 100s of cultures. Does not make it lore or special.
Im calling it, 2 busters, black and white Materia, one in each, Cloud and Zack fight.
EDIT:
Also ending; Sephiroth losing does a hell marry to destroy every universe/timeline/dimensions, Everyone is dead. just Cloud and Sephiroth, big final fight in the either of nothingness, cloud wins and uses his limitless potential, sacrificing himself, to bring back everything and everyone, very JRPG and would be quite epic.
Ssphiroth already succeeded. This is Reunion of Worlds!! 3 hourd worth of Blitz, Max, BabySeal, Sleepezi and NSP is phenomenal!!
2:24:30 He's absolutely right, I think by posing this possibility they set themselves the same trap that The Walking Dead did with Negan. (Spoilers for TWD)
They left on the cliffhanger where we don't know who Negan killed, and we spent 6 months theorizing who it could be. But after all that time passed we would've been let down by the payoff of either Option A) He kills Glenn like he did in the comics, or Option B) he kills someone else. It would've felt anticlimactic and not worth the wait.
So they went with a third "secret" option, where Negan kills 2 people. I think generally speaking that was unexpected. And that's exactly what we've got here. We all figured either we'd save Aerith, or we wouldn't. Either one would have been a bit of a letdown because we spent the last 4 years guessing that. So we got a 3rd option we weren't expecting, which at the same time takes the Cloud-unreliable-narrator plot thread to a whole new level we haven't seen before. Incredible.
Im not saying I hate the idea but I don't think Aerith should be in the Lifestream sequence helping Cloud and Tifa. Tifa is there because she knows the real Cloud who grew up on Nibelheim, she's there to help, fix and find Cloud's real self. What's the point of having Aerith there when she haven't even met the "real" Cloud yet? Or if she did cuz she's "omni-Aerith", what's the purpose of Tifa's Character at that point? With the build up scenes for both Cloud and Tifa from start of Rebirth, to the Gongaga scenes etc, the lifestream sequence should be the peak arc for both of them and working with their own misunderstings. Tifa is really important for Cloud's whole character, if she didn't find Cloud in the "beginning" of the game he's probably one of those wondering robes already.
I can actually see them having Aerith's real death in the LS sequence and/or having Aerith and Zack and or even the gang protecting them from Sephiroth. Cuz i dont think Sephiroth will sit still and watch Cloud to be himself again.
I love the respect for Sleepizy gets here,
he really is the lore master for FF7
I’m here because I’m waiting for Sleepizy to release his new video
Love everything about the game but I’m here because of the STORY
When I saw his finale stream, I was shocked at how fast he connected what could be happening. I think Max had a chew on it with his chat for a bit but sleepezi Was on the money.
Honestly, it’s delightful and surreal to see everyone here just talking together
He's digested so much obscure content that he is essentially ChatGPT for VII
In LA last year I kid you not. When I introduced Max to Sleepezi, Max's face lit up and he said "The Lore Wizard himself!"
@@BltzZ Lol that’s funny and wholesome. I was wondering if Max ever saw his vids with how crazy in-depth they are after Remake. Thanks for sharing!
@@sanddry738 Sleepezi's reaction: My god you are tall
They really cook, I can't wait for Part 3 dude
Jenova as a political figure is so interesting to me when FFVIII's Edea's design was once a Jenova design. Edea/Ultimecia infiltrated Galbadia politics. I love it.
Fuijin and Raijin were also going to be in FFVII, but their role was filled by the Turks so they were saved for a later game. There's a lot of stuff in FFVIII that was originally conceived of for VII.
On the white materia deal I’m with schroedinger.
Basically the whispers sucked out the memories off of Aerith, clearing her materia.
Omni-Aerith brought Cloud in the lifestream and gave him a full white materia so he can bring it back to Aerith in the planet.
That’s what happened for me.
Calling it: during the Lifestream visit, Tifa saves Cloud’s mental state, Aerith fills Cloud’s memory materia with playable AC moments.
did they go over what happens with Lucretcia, VIncent and how it connects to Sephiroth defeating Jenova from the lifestream since Aerith and Cloud cannot by themselves?
these games ARE a sequel to the OG game and advent children, before fighting sephiroth in the last chapter Cloud says, I can do this, I've done it before. He doesn't remember what happened in NIbelheim, he's referring to FF7 OG "killing Sephiroth" in the northern crater. Cloud is able to see more than the rest of the party because of his connection to Aerith. By sequel I mean the events of FF7 OG and Advent Children have already happened for Sephiroth and armed with this knowledge he goes back to time when Cloud first arrives in Midgar to ensure Cloud remembers him and cause him as much pain and confusion as possible. In Remake Aerith was able to see the future and after Cloud touched her he was also able to see the future which is why he always looks sad whenever Aerith puts her hands together to pray. Even in Rebirth after the future memories have been taken away from them both, when Aerith prays Cloud is clearly bothered and upset so that has stayed with him through this game. It's also very clear Aerith has explained to the other party members that Cloud is going to act completely fucking insane until he's able to cope with who he really is. I told my sister it's hilarious how the cast asks Cloud if he's ok about every 5 minutes. We got this really strong Sephiroth clone walking around with a 6 foot sword just cutting people to shreds with a smile on his face acting like a complete psycho for 95% of the game. There's no way the rest of the cast was going to go along with this version of Cloud unless Aerith explained to Tifa and the rest of the cast that they have to let Cloud's story play out in order for them to win in the end. Cloud's behavior in Rebirth was one of the biggest differences in the story from the OG. There were times in OG when Cloud went off the rails but in Rebirth he's murdering innocent people every chapter. He tries to kill Tifa, Elena, Reno, Aerith more or less at the end of Ch13. Aeriiiithhhh.... in super creepy voice. Loses his shit against the Temple's wall, murders dozens of Shrinra troops begging to live, and basically acts like a dick for 80% of the game. That's certainly not how he was portrayed in OG.
When Max mentioned the ultimate heroes' endgame being the removal of Sephiroth from existence, I have to ask, "Could you maybe call it an...Omnislash?"
I'm amazed.
The game has been telling us for over 30 years that when you die your Memories and Emotions (you soul) goes to the Lifestream, where it exists for a while, and then you return to the planet where new life is born.
And it shows us that.
And still, people refuse to understand.
There are no parallel worlds. There are no timelines. There is only bubble purgatories in the Lifestream, and a liar capable of ILLUSIONS called jenova.
Aerith is dead in the Lifestream.
Zack is dead in the Lifestream.
Cloud is an insane person.
Sephiroth lies. Jenova lies.
So Biggs got killed again in the Life Stream? How does Zack interact with Elmyra and Marlene? They're both still alive.
@@drewtheunspoken3988 yes, Biggs got shot by mute mindless soldiers. He gave up on life and returned to the planet
Aerith being a Certa and in love with Zack helps him hop from bubble to bubble.
Marlene, Elmyra and everyone on that "broken sky" place are dead. They died in the fire hurricane.
@fabiopego5413 the only problem with that is that both Kyrie and Johnny also interact to one degree or another with Zack. They're also both seen alive.
@@drewtheunspoken3988 i just went back to check and you're right, Kyrie actually throws a wrench in my theory. I'll still hold to it, and check Kyrie as a plot hole for now, but i guess we'll have to wait for revelations in part 3.
Thanks for the chat, and thanks for noticing Lifestream Kyrie!
This was an incredible podcast! Thank you all for getting together to do this. Much love to you guys, shine on.
IT'S ABOUT TIME! I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THIS FOR YEARS!!! THANK YOU ALL!
This is the dream team of FF7 content creators. So many of us had hoped to see Max with this group for years. It finally happened and did not disappoint. Feels like he really hit it off with these guys and you could see the excitement on his face in a way that eclipsed most of the other videos where he's discussed this stuff.
I hate that I missed this, BUT I'M ABOUT TO WATCH THIS ALL NOW!!!!!
Ever since I played FF7 back on the PS1, I have always thought that Cloud was the JRPG version of Thor, and Zack is Loki. Thor's name actually translates to 'thunder'. What comes from a cloud? Thunder. There's also a story about Thor wearing a dress. Zack means 'laughter', which is VERY fitting for Loki as he is known for being a very misguided trickster. The Buster Sword is also the equivalent of Mjolnir, where only certain people with god-like power are able to lift it. Cloud's belt signifies Thor's 'Power Belt', and his metal gauntlet on his left hand signifies Thor's gloves, 'Iron Grippers'. We will learn that Aerith is the characterisation of 'Gríðr'(who was the character that gave Thor his staff, which is very fitting as Aerith's main weapon is a staff), and that the Cetra served a pantheon of Norse-like gods. Cloud is essentially THE god of war in FF7. He masters every task, but the thing that he's the best at is waging war against his opposition. He's a master tactician, and I personally think that we will find out that he's actually a god in the final game. His downfall is anything to do with emotions, relationships, and people overall. Götterdämmerung is in Rebirth, and that translates to 'Twilight of the Gods' - this literally confirmed to me that Cloud is Thor. Essentially, Cloud and Zack are spiritual brothers, and they both are gifts from the gods to protect Gaia. I think the last game may be called 'Reincarnation' or 'Reincarnated', or a very similar word.
Amazing insight and discussion from all. I appreciate how open minded you all are to anything that can happen. True fans for true fans for sure. Love each of your videos individually, loved this collaboration just as much! Carry on my dudes!
I've been thinking a lot about the potential title for the third game in the Final Fantasy VII trilogy, and a suggestion I never hear being tossed around but makes the most sense to me is "Resurrection." Here's why:
1. **Hall of Resurrection**: The term "Resurrection" has already been used in the Hall of Resurrection in Rebirth, setting a thematic precedent.
2. **Nomura's Naming Theme**: Nomura has stated that the name "Rebirth" was chosen to evoke themes of starting anew. Following this pattern, "Resurrection" fits perfectly for the third game, as it continues the theme of renewal and revival.
3. **Progression of Power**: If you consider the progression from remaking something, to rebirth, and then to resurrection, each term becomes more powerful. Remaking something is a lesser feat compared to giving birth to something, which involves creating life. Resurrection, however, is the ultimate feat-bringing something back to life, which has never been achieved. This aligns with the trilogy's goal of escalating the stakes and achievements with each installment.
Given these points, "Resurrection" seems like the most fitting and powerful title for the final game in the trilogy.
Zack is in Beagle-verse, the flowers are alive!
In the other universes, flowers are all wilted and dead.
This is awesome. The ffvii remake project has gotten me back into gaming after ~20 years. It’s been so cool to re-experience the story in such an epic way and all of your analysis/commentary adds so much dimensionality to the experience. I’m super appreciative of everything you all do to generate this content.
Welcome back!
Re: Gi Nattak narrating the trailer. "The promise has been made" is actually even spoken in Rebirth by a Gi spirit, in the side quest where Red has to stop them from attacking people.
It is not Gi Nattak narrating the 2015 trailer. The trailer VA is David Lodge and Gi’s VA is Bruce Thomas.
@@nlikeflynn8837 Correct. This Gi narrator thing has been spreading like wildfire. While you are correct, I do wonder if they are meant to be the same character even though the voice actors changed. The voices and inflection are very similar. Could just be a coincidence though and mean absolutely nothing lol
@@DFTNSHEXGRM I mean, they could have had David Lodge voice Gi Nattak. He is already in the game, he voices a couple of NPC’s, but they chose not to.
It makes sense that they are building up to the party thinking cloud killed Aerith, specifically Tifa. It started in remake with her telling cloud he was scaring her, but every instance of cloud brutally murdering somebody and getting blood splattered all over him is followed by her shocked reaction.
None of my friends are into JRPGs. They are all into shooters. FFVII has been my favorite game since 1997. These guys fill that void of me being able to talk about this stuff with someone
My friends were too till I converted them to ff7 enjoyers. Just gotta persuade them
I am so invested in the idea of Aerith staying a playable character but ONLY while Cloud is separated from the party. That sounds so fucking interesting. Plus playable Aerith is too good to lose.
Hands down the best Remake/Rebirth discussion I’ve ever watched
Dude, calling it, "The Cosmo Canyon AA Meeting Thing," got me. 😂 As someone who grew up Jehovah's Witness, became a Mormon, and later in life ended up going to a few AA Meetings, Cosmo Canyon felt EXTREMELY Culty to me, and I really didn't enjoy being there. Luckily Yuffie was there to call them on their bullshit. I love Yuffie, man.
100% agreed with Yuffie’s take on the Cosmo Canyon people. Those people bugged and loved hearing themselves talk
I understand Your reaction due to Your past, but if You analyze in a more rational way : in FF7, the spiritual is at least partially scientifically proven, with the concept of the lifestream. So planetology is a mix of science and spirituality. Everything in life can become a cult if You follow blindly, and Bugenhagen admits that at a certain age You can become too sure of Your beliefs and stop questioning things. Cosmo Canyon in FF7 Rebirth was portrayed in a very balanced way IMO. You had the criticism of spiritual tourism and pseudo spirituality, but You also had people who genuinely cared about the welfare of the planet.
My spouse and I had the same reaction. Still don't know if it was intentional by the writing staff but when Tifa was questioned about her beliefs and the folks were like "Let's change her, go into this room" (can't remember exactly). I was scared and mentioned aloud, this is cult stuff
@@alexandrostype-2211 I'm not quite sure what you mean by, "analyze it in a more rational way," but I was just sharing my thoughts. I studied Theology for quite a long time after leaving two, what some would consider, cults. I consider AA one as well due to my experience and seeing many, many parallels and commonalities. I've come to the conclusion, and not to disabuse anyone of their beliefs or encourage folks not receive treatment either with substance or on a spiritual level, that all cults, in time, all belief systems, can grow large enough, reach a tipping point from cult to religion. And I'm fine with that. As far as the science of spirituality, I'm not sure how you quantify that. I've looked over tons of data that suggests things like souls can be measured but it's not quite science if it can't be replicated consistently. Anyways, just sharing my thoughts and opinion on this particular part of the game. I really enjoy Final Fantasy 7. It's my favorite game. But I'm not trying to get into some sort of psuedo-theological debate over it. So we'll just put a pin in it here. :) Take care.
I definitely think Cloud accomplished something when he stops sephiroths attack. At the end Zack is back at the church and all the flowers are alive. I think this is back in the terrier timeline and the flowers which had started to return earlier have been restored. Elmyra asks Zack if the flowers coming back might mean that Aerith is coming back. Marlene says that when Aerith wakes up a scary man is going to kill her. I think she wakes up right after Cloud stops the attack.
This was what I was looking forward to all day! If we wanted something emotionally fulfilling in the end for Cloud, what if they showed us a conversation with him and Tifa shortly after the game somewhere and Cloud opens up on his feelings about never knowing his dad, and his sorrow because believing his mom the whole time that his dad was wonderful only means that something dreadful likely happened.
"This feels like 1997" Well yeah, except with the inclusion of whiny purists.
This was awesome. Great listen for someone who just beat rebirth and needed a deep dive analysis
You might have missed this!
In the haunted mansion, the Tonberry bot says ”Retribution is at hand”.. What if this is the name of the next part? FF7: Retribution.
52:17
I was thinking of this myself since Summons are kinda lame in these games.
Here me out, but summons should have synergy abilities.
Imagine having Cloud jump and slash down from the upper left, while Bahamut slash up into the air from bottom right and then they jump back and then Cloud buffs Bahamut's megaflare with his mako energy stuff that leads into a huge explosion.
I think things like that would be sick as fuck.
I also think that summons should just break the damage cap I inherently.
And I think that they could be used to give you more unique buffs. Phoenix materia could give you elemental properties with fire. It could give the equipped character Regen or a Reraise at the start of a fight.
Maybe even lessen the mp usage of fire and restorative abilities when equipping Pheonix
IDK, I think any of those ideas could be used to make summons a lot more engaging to play with than they are currently.
Holy shit
I am actually super excited about the Zack stuff
You guys are making such a strong case for Glenn as the father ughhh noooo esp that he lived in Nibelheim WITH CLOUDS MOM of course they did the thing!
This is what the spoiler mode rebirth discussion should’ve been. Feel like I will be rewatching this a few more times before remake part 3 comes out
You guys should do this again soon because that was amazing and discussing rebirth and part 3.
The new knights of the round Materia has got to be Gilgamesh rounding up the different warriors of light from other dimensions. I'm calling it now
The Wedge scene was quite funny in that it was obvious, at least to me, that he died at the end of Remake. But people were still not too sure it seemed. So the creators were like ok... let's splat him on the sidewalk so it's even more obvious.
Just finished watching this. What a great conversation. Totally enjoyed it. You guys were definitely cooking.
I wonder if instead of just destroying Sephiroth, we’ll end up purging him of Jenova’s influence so that his spirit can return to the Lifestream. I like the notion that, just as Cloud can’t accept Aerith’s death, Sephiroth cannot accept his own mortality due to Jenova’s presence in his being.
just bring lucrecia to seph jobs done.
That could work because his whole thing is his anger was so immense that he kept refusing to be absorbed back into the life stream, the end goal would be him being purged of Jenova and his anger and finally accepting death
That's an awesome idea. Though I could already imagine the rancorous outrage from purists.
my prediction for part 3 (possibly SPOILERS):
1. Wutai section will be long, the party will get their materia stolen by yuffie and have to trek the wutai continent for a while, collecting new materias along the way
2. Wutai story might include turtle festival, in depth relationship between Yuffie and her father, some backstory preceding the events in crisis core and first soldier, corneo's return, leviathan battle.
3. Rufus will deploy full scale invasion across the world for the promise land and we get to join in skirmishes alongside Wutai and Avalanche HQ to fight back. This will include a full scale strategy battle at fort condor, deploying real armies and resources. at the end of the battle, we might fight phoenix. Reeve will betray Shinra and help out the party by giving out updates through cait sith.
4. in Mideel, Tifa and cloud falls into mako pool but before that, there will be a battle with ultima weapon and later after that, we'll play as Tifa to fix cloud's mind (we possibly will get more revelation about their childhood lives)
5. Northern region might be big as well with tundra and ice region, we get alot more backstory about aerith's lineage and Gast's research, and mandatory/optional battle with Shiva
6. KOTR will be split into fragments across the world, and we have to collect them. maybe fight each knight, and after defeating all 12, the final one will come out and we'll fight them all at once. this is something like god of war valkyrie bosses and gilgamesh protomateria trials.
7. Fights with Weapons will be multistage, this is where our party loadout will be challenged as each and every party members must participate in battle
8. There will be a full chapter dedicated for Vincent and it’ll end with him finding Lucrecia
Man it’s a good year to be a FF7 Fan
YES to advent children popping up in the lifestream sequence. Cloud remembering not only who he is but also who he eventually becomes as he lets grief consume him
I believe Aerith lived.
The third game will have the party confront Cloud's demeanor because they saw her die but he acts like she's still there.
Sephiroth will use that to draw Cloud's anger and sorrow and eventually Aerith will return.
I believe the objective of the trilogy is to change the fate of the 3 loveless heroes.
The hero who died before the journey (Zack, changed in remake)
The hero who died during the journey (Aerith, changed in rebirth)
The hero who is a prisoner (Cloud, a prisoner of his mind).
The only way to save cloud from that fate is to prevent the fates of both zack and aerith
Someone from SE kidnap this guy and make him cook in their basement. This is fire!
I don't think they are planing to retcon the entire compilation by having both of them alive. But then again they could tie AC more closely and change Cloud's survivor guilt and prevent humanity's extension this ties really close to what Aerith says "This isn't about me though it's about saving the world and you" she also seems to want something with Zack and her death is her own choice