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You guys are golden chocobos! Looking into Sephiroth's mind is terrifying. Of course, if you have people like Hojo, Scarlet, and Heidegger running your life because the big boss wants a profit... Make's me wonder if the puppet analogy is what Sephiroth thought of himself before his madness.
It’s ironic, essentially he’s Jenova’s puppet if anything… everything he’s doing is what Jenova would do anyways. This is also in the FFVII Ultimania Omega: "Sephiorth's will and Jenova's will. The Sephiroth copies who appear in various places all mumble Sephiroth's name as they gather for the Reunion. Though it seems Jenova's will consumed Sephiroth's mind when he was a human (Nibleheim), has his will actually taken control of Jenova...?" "Sephiroth inherited Jenova's will to destroy the planet and set out to achieve her dreadful ambition" Which makes sense considering his random personality switch in Nibleheim after coming in contact with Jenova... all of a sudden he wants to be a God and thinks he owns everyone, when the real Sephiroth was not like this at all that even Zack says... "no--not you, whoever the hell YOU are!" and we get flashes of Jenova's face next to Sephiroth's. In FFVII AC, Sephiroth says that he was going to use the planet to sail the cosmos, just like his mother did long ago.
I wanna see a sephiroth's final trial in part 3. One that includes jenova, angeal, genesis, and glenn (reluctantly). I think thats was all the new content with ever crisis is alluding to.
0:00: 🎮 Sephiroth's final transformation connects him to Cloud, symbolizing completion and the end of an era. 13:54: 🎮 Analysis of Sephiroth's character evolution in Advent Children compared to the original game. 27:46: 🎮 Discussion on merging worlds, Genova, and Sephiroth's motives in Final Fantasy VII theory. 41:16: 💭 Speculation on Sephiroth's motives and potential transformation based on rejecting or absorbing another character's power. 54:28: ⚔️ Interpretation of symbolic imagery in Final Fantasy VII Remake's ending. 1:08:45: ⚔️ Speculation on a conclusive end to Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII post-Advent Children. 1:22:31: 💡 Discussion on enhancing the FF7 Remake with a pivotal scene involving Sephiroth's development and a focus on the villains. 1:35:39: 🎮 Engaging discussion on Final Fantasy VII theories, taking a brief break before continuing. 1:49:28: 🎮 Discussion on the impact of Final Fantasy VII Remake's rebirth theme and similarities to the original game. 2:02:35: 🧠 Analyzing films from different perspectives: theorist vs. art tools end, focusing on lenses and emotional reactions. 2:16:22: 🗡️ The concept of blessings from the Goddess and Sephiroth onto Cloud in Final Fantasy VII. 2:29:24: 🔥 Symbolism of red and blue as representations of forgiveness, salvation, destruction, and purification in Final Fantasy VII. 2:43:34: 🎮 Exploring potential character interactions and developments in Final Fantasy VII universe. 2:56:43: 🎮 Interpretation of Sephiroth's actions in Final Fantasy VII Remake as a means to free Aith from his control. 3:08:39: ⚔️ Discussion on symbolic imagery in Final Fantasy VII Remake and potential for Advent Children outfits. Recap by Tammy AI
It is implied that Sephiroth wants to "Break" Cloud with Despair as he was given, so Cloud will want his "Heaven." To understand the Joy of Madness. It is religious fervor. And thus Cloud becomes a "Being of the Sky". Sephiroth's Angel.
He searched for his mother. Found Jenova and he went crazy. Maybe in Part 3 he finds out about his real mother Lukretia where he is going to be his former self.
1:01:54 Philosophically compassion is the recognition of someone's suffering while subconsciously knowing that deep down yourself and the sufferer are the same, with equal propensity to feel, and in this sense you actually share in someone else's suffering. Sephiroth and cloud actually do share cells so they are similar. However cloud feels compassion for his friends, and its because of the extremely strong bond between him and his friends that cloud is given the strength to ultimately resist Sephiroth (and save the world), and its also how he had the strength to kill the human form of Sephiroth
So my Jenova Sephiroth theory is this: The Sephiroth we see that talks to Cloud about 7 seconds till the end and through out all of rebirth is actually jenova, not sephiroth. Sephiroths body being in the northern crator is more a catalist of pure jenova cells which will allow Jenova to use those pure cells to call upon meteor. Cloud is needed by Jenova to gain access to the planet as Cloud is from the planet, however Sephiroth is created from pure jenova cells. Cloud being from the Planet and having S cells or jenova cells in him makes him a perfect catalyst for jenova to use to take over the planets life stream and infect it further. If sephiroth is dead his body can not be apart of the life stream so he is similar to the GI. The planet would reject him, but Cloud on the other hand is from the planet and he can gain access into the life stream. Which would leave the question how does Jenova control whispers? Maybe they are the whispers from the dead planet Jenova travelled with into the planet. Which is why earths whispers are fighting them. This would mean the black life stream and the black whispers are all from the meteor planet that his into the norther crator. Jenova had to be alive inorder to become the meteor, so how will sephiroth become it if he is dead? Jenova most likely has all of sephiroths memories so it knows everything about him. This also would explain why jenova needs Cloud alive, not only to become the observer in giving the black materia to Sephiroths body at the norther crator but also to be come the new host of Jenova as he is the only one with sephiroth cells. Its why he has an attachment to Cloud through his cells. I need to stop here as i dont really know where i am going with this theory. I will have to contemplate some more to make sense of it. Edit: you guys mentioned a theory that got me thinking. Did you notice in Nibelhime that sephiroth had a memory glitch like cloud does looking out the window. He states 'i feel like i been here before' or something along those lines. We know jenova messes with memories or can give new memories. Do you think all this time Jenova is actually manipulating sephiroth through his Jenova cells? It could mean he is reedemable maybe? He might have his own shadow work maybe in part 3? Who knows. Good stream 🔥💯
I LOVE this dive into Seph's character and the hypotheses you are coming up with! I would love to see at least half of what you covered in part 3. Just wow! Sephiroth has always been my favorite villain in the FF franchise, and having people have that same love for him is so cathartic! I almost want him to get a happy ending, but we know he's supposed to be the big bad, and usually, that never happens. Well, we will see! I have my own theory when I played Rebirth, but it involves Jenova and her possible connection to the Gi Tribe. And it all steamed from the little figurines that Nanaki was bringing to the one gate to open it. The last one he that Nanaki collected I decided to looked at it and saw that it looked like a Jenova's tentacle, and then that was when I went back to the other three. To me, it looks like if you were to put the first two (the left ones) together, it would look like Sephiroth Reborn (Bizarro Seph), and the last two (the right ones) would look like Jenova. After hearing that the Gi Tribe made the Black Materia, I was like they have to be connected and would explain why neither Seph nor Jenova can merge with the planet (Gaia), Either Jenova was a rescue party to try to help the Gi get off the planet or Jenova was a summon like Meteor that wasn't as strong as Meteor. Jenova had to had influenced Sephiroth with despair, rage, sadness, and all the other negative emotions and could have been a way for him to seek out the Gi and the Black Materia. Gah I have so many theories in my head right now lol but this was my main one. But yeah I don't know how right this is but I'm telling you that Seph is trying to make that Black Materia grow stronger now.
YOOO Sleepezi. For two years, thanks to your videos, I think I have ascertained what the name of the third one is: FF7 Remembrance. Cause the lifestream is made of memories and some other shit that I dont feel like desdcribing now, but mark my words! FF VII Remembrance, Bob Ross called that shit!! Oh also hey Phillip, what's up man, I discovered you recently and you are in the same camp as Sleepezi in terms of my favorite YTers.
Sephiroth and Jenova are one and the same: the guy was injected with her cells before he was born, yet he's been able to overcome its influence and eventually dominate it. When he's beaten by Cloud and the party in the Northern Crater, he supposedly sheds away all of his humanity and binds his sense of self to Cloud in order to not be engulfed by the lifestream. So what's left is essentially Sephiroth's consciousness as Jenova cells swimming around the lifestream gathering knowledge and spreading corruption. His story arc puts him as one of the few characters in the entire series that has an understanding of how the world works, especially after how he uses the Time Guardian's abilities at the Temple of the Ancients to travel through time and acquire even more knowledge. With the story being incomplete as of yet, there's still a possibility that us, the player's, eyes are clouded by what we've learned in the OG. It wasn't too long ago that we considered the Cetra as wholly good people whereas, starting from Aerith's mural to the Gi Nattak speech, we learn the actual truth of the matter is much more grey.
I hated Lucrecia's characterization in DoC. Square needs to decide if she is innocent and manipulated (and they'll need to REALLY do a lot of work to make this believable), or make her complicit and accountable to the Jenova/Sephiroth project. She can even be regretful and not have known the extent of the project, that'd be fine, but this idea that she somehow ignored Hojo's madness and cruelty and still worked with him makes her nearly as bad as him. Personally I think the best/most interesting option would be to have her fully on board when Ghast is involved in the Jenova project, enchanted with the thought of resurrecting the Ancients. It would be very compelling if she started excited about the project, gets pregnant, and then shortly thereafter Ghast abandons the project and escapes with Ifalna. At this point, she might feel trapped into the project, or Hojo might even prevent her from leaving after their lead test subject Ifalna had escaped. Idk just spit balling. Lucrecia should be so interesting and easy to write well, it's wild DoC f'd up her story so much.
I will refrain from dumping my own theories here but I just wanted to post to say this is BY FAR the most accurate analysis of the Rebirth story that I have seen so far (along with your other videos on the topic) I am just thankful that there is someone out there that can follow what's been shown in the Remake Trilogy without resorting to word vomiting about how they have ruined FF7. Very refreshing to see and will be following your channels to hear more as we move into Part 3 territory. GREAT stuff guys. *EDIT* I will just add here about something I noticed during the end section, when we go back to the 2 Weapons spiralling and glowing in the Lifestream, they appear to be above a building that looks suspiciously like the Church. Then they glow. Then the very next scene is Zack waking up in the Church. I find this kind of fascinating, although the only thing I can ascertain from this is that the Weapons are transporting people around the Lifestream.
In part 3, do you think Sephiroth is going to attempt to prevent Cloud's lifestream healing? I want to see Sephiroth really try to derail Cloud's mind in the lifestream, even post-breakdown. Cloud recovering his sppressed memories is probably the greatest threat to Sephiroth's plans. I'm sure the devs will find a way to amplify the emotions like they did in other scenes, but I want to know what you think. Maybe a Tifa vs Cloud bossfight. Make it really intense.
I've been wondering about that too, idk if I want it to happen though. Both Sephiroth and Aerith could get involved, but that scene was really important for Cloud and Tifa's relationship, and more significantly, it was the purpose of Tifa's entire character in the original. I'm not fully against it, it could be a scene where Sephiroth/Aerith interfere initially, or perhaps Aerith protects Tifa and Cloud from Sephiroth while they put together Cloud's memory, but I hope they don't overdo it too much. That scene is already a massive info dump and plenty interesting, I don't know how much more they need to add to it tbh (except for the Aerith-death-acceptance part, that will be incredible if they add it to this section)
Imagine if Part 3 establishes AC/the Compilation as, not an alt timeline, but a "nightmare" dream world created from Cloud's despair over Aerith's death
I wonder if your proposed "Sephiroth Lifestream sequence" is what Nomura recently talked about being added to the third part which isn't a part of the OG. I'm totally sold on wanting to see that
What I ended up liking about the TFS that I didn’t expect to is, in many ways it feels like a “true-beginning” compared to the other prequels in FF7 like Before Crisis or Crisis Core. There’s still so much in those games that feels ambiguous about what came before. Seeing the actual origins of Sephiroth as a warrior, what shapes and drives him in his adolescence, how he forms bonds with Angeal or Genesis to have the connection with them he has in Crisis Core.. all of that felt so limited and lacking context in CC imo. So going back before those events, and seeing how it begins with Sephiroth and leads up to him becoming the big bad, really makes Cloud’s triumph over him feel even more earned. I also really like the potential storytelling within the idea that… Cloud and Sephiroth are very similar in a lot of ways, but they are two sides of a coin. And one of the ways they’re depicting that is by inverting the circumstances of team-building. Cloud starts off a loner, and gradually builds up a globe-trotting team that starts to feel friendly and familial. Sephiroth on the other hand, *joins a team* and for one reason or another, isolates himself from them and causes them to feel like they need to distance themselves from him. Cloud’s humanity and humble roots draws power in and builds people up. Sephiroth’s power isolates others from him, and pushes people away. And I think TFS showing us this, with Glenn, Matt and Lucia, then Angeal and presumably Genesis and finally Zack… is a really great way to further show that.
My theory is... when remake started... the timeline was already being altered... At first I thought hes conscious traveled back to change things because he knows too much but now I think he just had a vision of what was going to happen and planned a way to even make Holy dont get active this time around... little did he knew aerith being a Cetra with her powers could also change certain things like when Cloud came back from the other timeline with Aerith's materia activated and he goes like "That shouldn't be here"... she knew some things cant change in order to save everyone... it will be interesting what explanation they give in Part 3 and now that the director of the OG told Nomura about something they always had for the ending but didn't do at the end so that he could apply it now.
But Aerith too Is in the same situation,Because She too knows more than She could,about the future,despite the fact that,later,due to the action of the black whispers She loses some memories...and,a certain point,Sephiroth says "..good, Aerith,pray....." knowing very well that She's activating sancta,and doing nothing to stop her.
Got me thinking that, ultimately, the two sides in conflict are Team Rejection of Sephiroth, "Death is scary," vs. Team Recycle of Aerith, "Death is an opportunity for enlightenment. Two contrasting relationships with Death sort of "seducing" Cloud, and, yeah, us too on the meta with the use of mystery storytelling. Sephiroth's manipulation of perspective has color coding and "spiritual energy" imagery continuously using horror and alienation vibes while Aerith's manipulation of perspective is color coded with rainbows and whimsy and celebrations. However the war depicted between Aerith and Sephiroth in ReTri so far feels less a conflict of destroying the other and more a tug of war over the favor of their creator (FF7 saga), of the planet (OG story), of the Lifestream (Compilation legacy), of Cloud (ReTri crux). Of the future. Each side selling a contrasting relationship with death in ReTri being depicted as a wild psycho-cosmic tug o war over Cloud, the Lifestream, the planet, and us over the whole franchise is in line with death being at the core to FF7's conception and later personality with OG FF7. FF7, as a sort of artificial human, is at an age in the collective consciousness to basically Reminisce on its "childhood" or a perceived era of the innocence it feels it has lost up to now. That loss being, again, a revelation of mortality, of living, and ultimately, of Death. And that's pretty damn FF7 of FF7 ReTri. So, is FF7 still human enough for us? Ohhhhh Final Fantasy 7 Reminiscence 🪽 Edit: Forgot to mention, the depiction of the confluence of worlds mirroring Cloud's state of consciousness can be explained with what a person experiences during euphoria or panic attacks, states on the spectrum of ego death, where the conscious and unconscious breach each other. The Planet screams like a human, so what would a panic attack look like?
I don't think Dyne is a cetra , but I do think he fell into the lifestream when he lost his arm. This explains his mental health and his powers. As for Marlene ever crisis has given me some leads on that....
The thing about this conversation is is that it’s is is that it’s great. In all seriousness, I haven’t had this much fun listening to theories since the buildup to KH2.
57:45 I don’t feel like this “save everyone” sephiroth is accurate, in og ff7 he literally looks at the human race as scum to be wiped off the earth there is no illusion of “saving” no matter how demented you spin it. Trying to force sephiroth into some type of antihero would be a terrible move by the developers
They missed one thing in the REBIRTH game: when Cloud is in Costa Del Sol, they should have shown the stab mark from Sephiroth’s sword…. Unless Hojo did skin grafting….. that would have been a nice story telling note.
The Icicle Inn area had a Snow enemy that is one of the three human woman-like variants that you can fight as monsters. We have yet to see them and the devs could try incorporating Lucrecia or even the Cetra with these monsters. As far as we know, the Snow monster you fight is sentient.
@@empty_melodies there's also two other variants that are fought as random enemies: jenemzy near the temple of the ancients area and pollensalta inside the northern crater.
Calling it now. The reason that Tifa saw Clouds memories is that blue whale she's swimming in IS Cloud. Same as why there is a pink weapon swimming like this yin yang pattern at the end. There is going to be a lot of time jumps (not just memories) but where you can interact with the world. We will find out what the heck the Cloud who escaped on the motorcycle while everyone else was dead or captured in the terrior universe was doing. Cloud after the northern crater and is in a wheelchair is going to be doing a LOT In the other worlds.
Pink one reminds me of Aerith. Cloud also gets a pink flash of Aerith’s “death” which is different than the usual green Jenova ones when he’s sitting next to Tifa at the end of Rebirth
I wonder if we'll see Sephiroth or monster imagery applied to Cloud in part 3. We've seen a vision of Cloud as a robed man, and S and G-cell infectees take on a combination of monster traits and traits associated with their "master" (like the Genesis and Angeal copies). Grief and despair catalyze and accelerate geostigma and SOLDIER degredation, and the end result is a monstrous transformation or the victim's body literally rotting away. Degredation makes SOLDIERs violent and hyper-aggressive, and Cloud's combat style shows this. Punisher Mode drives him "Berserk," Prime Mode upgrades it to "Fury." This perfectly maps onto his increasingly violent outbursts in Gongaga and the Temple of the Ancients, where you can hear Cloud laughing in the adrenalin of battle. This is wishful thinking, but i really hope we get a Cloud boss fight at some point in part 3, to really pay off his escalating violence in both the story and gameplay. Maybe in the Northern Crater where he willingly gives himself and the Black Materia to Sephiroth after being destroyed by the truth of Aerith's death and his fake identity. At the very least, i expect another violent upgrade to the Punisher Mode system and the Black Materia to give him the Meteorain ability to really drive home his frenzied state. Similar to how Terra learns "Dark Impulse" in KH BBS and is forced to use it to kill Eraqus
1:09:08 Everybody gets what they want, it's the end of Sephiroth forever? I have to dissagree with that, I do not want that in the slightest. I personally don't think Sephiroth is gonna die at the end of part 3. Jenovaroth might, but the real Sephiroth, the one at the edge of creation, won't. He even said at the end of remake that he won't end. I do not think they are making his backstory, showing how he became a hero and make us like him more, just to permanently kill him at the end. It would make no sense honestly. He's super popular and a lot of people would not be happy about that. Keeping him alive opens up possibilities for future spin offs and sequels also. Permanently killing him would be a huge mistake.
I know I'm super late, but I believe Max said the "see through her eyes" poster is a reference to a camera that had a promotional thing with OG FF7 in Japan.
The Remake basically doubled down on Sephiroth's messianich hero-complex that, frankly, was both lost in translation and overshadowed by his lust for power after the Nibelheim flashback
Sephiroth is not evil, in fact, he is actually very good, and crisis core showed that very well pre Niebleheim. I believe it is much simpler as they showed us that he and cloud has the same jenova headache, except he was fully succumb to jenova in niebleheim. This actually has prove where in rebirth Cloud went on a slaughter fest when briefly succumbed to Jenova. This I believe is where life stream sephiroth awakes from jenova’s influence maybe post original ff7. Beyond the original ff7, the Sephiroth that Cloud face is actually Jenova. Same where Jenova is in the form of Hojo in youth Sephiroth’s mind. So everything is mirrored between Cloud rebirth and young Sephiroth.
I agree with this. It's also weird to me that nobody mentions the white feathers we see in rebirth. There's one in the beginning, one in chapter 13 when Aerith gets pushed by the whispers, and 2 when Sephiroth is descending to kill Aerith. I do not think they are develloping his past and showing hero, human Sephiroth represented by white feathers for no reason.
In regards to jenova complete, what I believe they will do for part 3, is something related to the fact that jenova, in theory, cannot be complete without sephiroth. That’s because seph himself has her cells within him too. He either has to be absorbed by her or he needs to absorb her to complete all her scattered parts. Maybe that’s the reason behind his line, when he says they will rule the planet together.
I feel like you guys need to remember that Sephiroth does not like humans. He knows that they have caused his mother issues and he even states this before taking her out of the tube in Nibelheim. This has caused Sephiroth to lose all respect for humanity. Why would he want to save the people who hurt his mother? It just wouldn’t make any sense.
You're speaking about a Sephiroth under madness and under Jenova's Will.....But once there was a different Sephiroth,a sane One...and (as Aerith tells in her novel) in Lifestream there are all the memories of him in his Life precedent the Moment of Nibelheim....Throught such Memories,a sane Sephiroth still exists,is still possible
I agree, there is something to be said for Sephiroth considering himself a "hero" especially with the context from EC, but it's no longer for humanity's sake. Sephiroth revels in sorrow, pain, and despair. His "camaraderie" with Cloud is parasitic, Lifestream Black tells us that he needs Cloud as his anchor for his identity, his hatred for Cloud is what sustains him. The ONLY exception to this is if Edge of Creation Sephiroth truly is a fully separate entity from the Sephiroth that is stalking Cloud throughout Remake/Rebirth/AC. I was hoping to hear more about the "ore/watashi" thing from these guys, and I'd played Rebirth assuming that we were back to "Watashi" Sephiroth for all of Rebirth. More recently I found out that his first line to Cloud in the game (post Nibelheim flashback), is when Tifa invites Cloud to talk to her outside, and Sephiroth appears to tell Cloud "I killed Tifa, so who is she?", and uses "ore" instead. He also uses "ore" again during Cloud's trial, in the scene where he tells Cloud to (in English, idr the exact line in JP, it's a bit different) "burn your world down, as I did." From what little I've been able to find, the most distinct "watashi" was only when he descended - wing expanded - to confront Cloud and the group during the Temple of the Ancients, just before the black materia room: "Yet I shall remain." All of this is to say, Edge of Creation Sephiroth used to be identifiable by his different pronouns, but now psycho-Sephiroth is also using them periodically too. Not sure if this indicates there is a "good" EoC Sephiroth, if psycho-Sephiroth is manipulating Cloud by deliberately using "ore" to confuse him and us further, or if the devs are cooking something else completely. Anyway, I got off track. Everything Sephiroth post-Nibelheim has said indicates that he hates humanity. The only thing he is interested in "saving" is the Planet, and he appears to be completely delusional about that, hearing its screams as cries of joy. I do think his pronouns are linked to which "version" of Sephiroth is on screen at the time, but at this point idk if any of them care about humanity or Cloud at all (beyond using Cloud as an anchor). The prevailing theory from Remake that EoC Sephiroth was separate from the villain Sephiroth has become much less concrete after his portrayal in Rebirth, in my opinion. The dude is a goddamn enigma.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one smelling FF8 all over what’s going on. I’m thinking Sephiroth will make a World of Ruin/Time Compression after the failed attempt to blow up Meteor, creating the endgame world state where you can fight some secret bosses or whatever. I’m just hoping Glenn isn’t gonna Squall at the very end…
About Cloud seeing Aerith's ghost in part 3: At the end of Rebirth, Cloud and ghost-Aerith have a conversation, and you can tell Cloud understands she has to separate from the party. He says, "Are you going to have trouble getting back?"(paraphrasing). We don't know where she is going to, or if it even matters, but we do know that Cloud understands that Aerith needs to be away from the party. So I don't think he is going to see ongoing hallucinations. He definitely still thinks she's alive, however.
What if there is really not that huge plot behind the EoC in First Soldier? Maybe this scene is only explaining, why Sephiroth behaved differently with Cloud in the scene at the end of Remake. He tried it with compassion, as he remembered this can brake the cycle of hate. But it's a dead end with Cloud, showing compassion / being nice won't work. This is also the reason why we don't see this EoC Sephiroth in Rebirth anymore, because there are no different versions of him. He is always the same, just tried a different strategy. And he simply wants Cloud to survive so he can always return through Cloud (as we know from on the way to a smile and AC). And he needs him for the reunion, and to deliver the Black Materia. So I think his interest in Cloud will immediately dissolve once he gets the Black Materia and summon Meteor in Part 3. If it is really that important, they would have incorporated it in Rebirth. Maybe it is only a backstory to finally give his character the hero story he deserves in my opinion. And I really love what they are doing. I just don't think it will have that great impact in the main story. (I really want to be wrong here, but I am just lowering my expectations.. Just in case)
Analyzing the characteristics of recent events, it is important to not only look at the parallels present throughout the entire game series, including Ever Crisis and the Remake trilogy, but also to consider what the game itself signals. This includes questioning why certain changes were made by the creators, why these specific changes were implemented, and where they might lead: ruclips.net/video/zE77gooam1w/видео.htmlsi=bVIlNTXSy9wl9lwJ
Around 2h20m when you mention the White Whispers surround masamune and Aerith effectively unalived herself! Yes dawg. The W Whispers enemy Intel says they are there to make sure the INEVITABLE HAPPENS.
Phil not seeing that Aerith shot her shot with Cloud rather than what he thinks shes doing is his biggest blindspot. She meant "liking" Marlene told Zack and us it's "liking". There are two theme songs where the lyrics talk about finding each other. The messaging is everywhere. It's all to set up so that Cloud thinks Aerith is his GF now. They had a date, she confessed her feelings, he "saves her life" from his POV and at the end he is smiling consistently at het (delusion, ghost, alt world, who knows). It's heartbreaking if it all turns out to be a lie created while disassociating. It's not going to be about guilt now unlike AC but something darker with that theme of denial and hope that he finally is getting that connection and realizing it was ripped away and he missed it is going to be really thematically important.
if sephiroth really was in some trance by jenova in neblheim then was able to escape and ascend thanks to cloud which is why he shows this obsession, then does that mean hes in a strange way grateful to cloud and views him almost as his hero, for stopping him and vice versa in a way saving him???
Really awesome theories and observations, but why is Philip so sure that 'the true aerith" was killed in the church. It was deliberately NOT shown and she later appears at the watery edge of creation. Also maybe the church might just become the same church Zack was waiting in front of when Seph passed him. Yes the straps were different but when Aerith opens the portal the reality switches (see chairs vanish) so it might be just the reality where Seph enters the church after he sends Zack away.
I also don't understand why everybody is so convinced that he killed her in that scene... I mean maybe, but they didn't show it, and he doesn't even have his sword out. That's what they want us to think, but I'm not convinced that's what happened. Also Aerith gets a gold pin in this world and I think it is going to be an important detail to recognise that particular Aerith in part 3.
Sephiroth is a Thanos type. He has an intention that could be seen as maybe good but it's twisted, and ultimately he still has to go down. Omni Seph knows he will lose, it's happened multiple times by Cloud (Nibelheim, OG end, Advent Children). He knows the only way to not lose is have Cloud join him and "defy destiny". Edge of Creation/Omni Seph was also once human. I don't want him to be a good guy, but they're just expanding his tragedy. In OG, he goes crazy after learning of his birth then we kill him at the end, we don't even get a fight vs a regular Seph, only the ult forms. 30 Year Cook continues
The way I see the rainbow glow, it doesn't signal the creation of a new timeline, rather it depicts a fixed point in time and a wrong choice correcting. When you first see it, Zach has to make a choice. Go to Biggs or go to Hojo. He goes to HoJo and we see the rainbow glow fill the Biggs path. Next time we see Zach hes with Biggs and still thinks he's defied destiny. The timeline resets back to destiny's path. I think the same has happened with the sword deflection. Cloud did save her, he's not allowed to, it resets but he still thinks he's defied destiny. However he's far more instable than zach so it takes a toll on him.
Let say for the sake of conversation. Will Cloud be in a position where he chooses who he saves? a world where Aerith & Zack lives? or the world where everyone else lives? just how Sephiroth had to do with Rosen?
Zack's Cloud, the one in the wheelchair, has not met Aerith yet. His uniform is just like Zack's, with the two shoulder pads. When Aerith woke up Cloud, in the wheelchair, he only had one shoulder pad, the same uniform he wears throughout the game. So, I'm thinking there are two different timelines. Zack thinks that it is HIS Cloud that need to save Aerith but it is another Cloud. What do you guys think?
I’m not really in favor of a Sephirot that turns good or the idea of 2 Sephirots roaming around. I’m still down for an expansion backstory for Sephirot, how he lacks Agency, identity, and purpose. This is my headcanon, Sephirot lived and act like a human due to the mimicry ability of Jenova due to his cells, but of course never really understood why and felt something was off, until he founds out about the truth of his birth. His sudden change is him finding pleasure and purpose being the son of Jenova because it’s his nature, not only he is the son of Jenova, but also the son of the twisted Hojo and for that reason he enjoys the murder and adopts a god complex. It still follows the theme of identity because he still lacks the understanding of his parents, and instead bases his persona in an incomplete truth. He is to far gone to now redeem him. And there is still the aspect of his character design, ost, body language that makes a threatening individual and it doesn’t fit for a good Sephirot.
if u play dirge genesis is waiting for the true end of the world which in end credit scene dirge happens and he flys away with white haired dude whatever his name is, and if ur theories are correct and everything has merged one way or another then genesis should appear near the end to fight sephiroth with everyone, when the goddess calls and the end is nigh or whatever the loveless poem he quotes is
Much like how the translation fell short when calling Hojo "Helletic" and not Heretic, the form matches the intent much more clearly when you change Safer to "Savior Sephiroth". It's been there the whole time . . . I think.
us on the west is alittle slower on realizing what right in front of us. the movie is not marvel the movie is Matrix or Nightmare on Elm street. its clear from rebirth that cloud & aerith travel between worlds by falling asleep. and Zack takes on a role like Agent Smith making copies of his self.
The story in rebirth as in main story was same length in remake. Most of rebirths 100 hours are searching the landscape for mako, towers etc. and imo remake being more linear gave me a better connection to the characters and story. Not to mention Biggs, Jessie, wedge, were better side characters than anyone in rebirth imo. I love a lot they did with rebirth, and I’m still here for the story, but as far as story and attention are concerned, I like remake better. Something about looking up at the plate the first time in that game that hits me in the feels. And the boss fights overall were better in remake. Just my opinion
Lool 2:17:30 I totally get Sleepezi's reaction when Philip starting eating his snack 🤣. Anyways great video and discussion guys! I agree with the fact that a game like Rebirth almost makes me forget I'm a visual designer haha Just like we talked a little about how Nomura 'style of design' is comparable to recognizing paintings made by Van Gogh, the same goes for Nojima's writing. The similarities with FFVIIRebirth and FFX are so abundant in this game. This especially hit me when Aerith did her Yuna dance in Temple of the Ancients and when Sephiroth goes on his 'villain explanation' about the whole multiple worlds/dreams thing.
There is an overarching trend in society toward nostalgia getting so advanced, its more like than original than the original. Its like ppl going back in time and letting ppl be perfectionists
Sales are down industry wide since the pandemic, might actually never reach those levels again, plus inflation is changing spending trends. On top of that, Rebirth is a PS5 exclusive, a more expensive console with smaller install base.
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You guys are golden chocobos! Looking into Sephiroth's mind is terrifying. Of course, if you have people like Hojo, Scarlet, and Heidegger running your life because the big boss wants a profit... Make's me wonder if the puppet analogy is what Sephiroth thought of himself before his madness.
It’s ironic, essentially he’s Jenova’s puppet if anything… everything he’s doing is what Jenova would do anyways. This is also in the FFVII Ultimania Omega:
"Sephiorth's will and Jenova's will. The Sephiroth copies who appear in various places all mumble Sephiroth's name as they gather for the Reunion. Though it seems Jenova's will consumed Sephiroth's mind when he was a human (Nibleheim), has his will actually taken control of Jenova...?"
"Sephiroth inherited Jenova's will to destroy the planet and set out to achieve her dreadful ambition"
Which makes sense considering his random personality switch in Nibleheim after coming in contact with Jenova... all of a sudden he wants to be a God and thinks he owns everyone, when the real Sephiroth was not like this at all that even Zack says... "no--not you, whoever the hell YOU are!" and we get flashes of Jenova's face next to Sephiroth's.
In FFVII AC, Sephiroth says that he was going to use the planet to sail the cosmos, just like his mother did long ago.
I wanna see a sephiroth's final trial in part 3. One that includes jenova, angeal, genesis, and glenn (reluctantly). I think thats was all the new content with ever crisis is alluding to.
Please talk about the Marlene scene with Zack. She tells him to fix Cloud so he can save Aerith.
0:00: 🎮 Sephiroth's final transformation connects him to Cloud, symbolizing completion and the end of an era.
13:54: 🎮 Analysis of Sephiroth's character evolution in Advent Children compared to the original game.
27:46: 🎮 Discussion on merging worlds, Genova, and Sephiroth's motives in Final Fantasy VII theory.
41:16: 💭 Speculation on Sephiroth's motives and potential transformation based on rejecting or absorbing another character's power.
54:28: ⚔️ Interpretation of symbolic imagery in Final Fantasy VII Remake's ending.
1:08:45: ⚔️ Speculation on a conclusive end to Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII post-Advent Children.
1:22:31: 💡 Discussion on enhancing the FF7 Remake with a pivotal scene involving Sephiroth's development and a focus on the villains.
1:35:39: 🎮 Engaging discussion on Final Fantasy VII theories, taking a brief break before continuing.
1:49:28: 🎮 Discussion on the impact of Final Fantasy VII Remake's rebirth theme and similarities to the original game.
2:02:35: 🧠 Analyzing films from different perspectives: theorist vs. art tools end, focusing on lenses and emotional reactions.
2:16:22: 🗡️ The concept of blessings from the Goddess and Sephiroth onto Cloud in Final Fantasy VII.
2:29:24: 🔥 Symbolism of red and blue as representations of forgiveness, salvation, destruction, and purification in Final Fantasy VII.
2:43:34: 🎮 Exploring potential character interactions and developments in Final Fantasy VII universe.
2:56:43: 🎮 Interpretation of Sephiroth's actions in Final Fantasy VII Remake as a means to free Aith from his control.
3:08:39: ⚔️ Discussion on symbolic imagery in Final Fantasy VII Remake and potential for Advent Children outfits.
Recap by Tammy AI
Loving all these discussions and theory videos, one of the best things to listen to after beating the game.
It is implied that Sephiroth wants to "Break" Cloud with Despair as he was given, so Cloud will want his "Heaven." To understand the Joy of Madness. It is religious fervor. And thus Cloud becomes a "Being of the Sky". Sephiroth's Angel.
The “heavens cloud“
He searched for his mother. Found Jenova and he went crazy. Maybe in Part 3 he finds out about his real mother Lukretia where he is going to be his former self.
Or in part 3, Seph will go in search of her father, find out who it is and literally destroy the world (the end of world #5).
I think Jenova may have taken Lucretia's form in his mind when he was looking at the one in the tank.
@@lyndsaybrown8471 that is possible
1:01:54 Philosophically compassion is the recognition of someone's suffering while subconsciously knowing that deep down yourself and the sufferer are the same, with equal propensity to feel, and in this sense you actually share in someone else's suffering. Sephiroth and cloud actually do share cells so they are similar. However cloud feels compassion for his friends, and its because of the extremely strong bond between him and his friends that cloud is given the strength to ultimately resist Sephiroth (and save the world), and its also how he had the strength to kill the human form of Sephiroth
So my Jenova Sephiroth theory is this:
The Sephiroth we see that talks to Cloud about 7 seconds till the end and through out all of rebirth is actually jenova, not sephiroth. Sephiroths body being in the northern crator is more a catalist of pure jenova cells which will allow Jenova to use those pure cells to call upon meteor.
Cloud is needed by Jenova to gain access to the planet as Cloud is from the planet, however Sephiroth is created from pure jenova cells. Cloud being from the Planet and having S cells or jenova cells in him makes him a perfect catalyst for jenova to use to take over the planets life stream and infect it further.
If sephiroth is dead his body can not be apart of the life stream so he is similar to the GI. The planet would reject him, but Cloud on the other hand is from the planet and he can gain access into the life stream.
Which would leave the question how does Jenova control whispers? Maybe they are the whispers from the dead planet Jenova travelled with into the planet. Which is why earths whispers are fighting them. This would mean the black life stream and the black whispers are all from the meteor planet that his into the norther crator. Jenova had to be alive inorder to become the meteor, so how will sephiroth become it if he is dead?
Jenova most likely has all of sephiroths memories so it knows everything about him. This also would explain why jenova needs Cloud alive, not only to become the observer in giving the black materia to Sephiroths body at the norther crator but also to be come the new host of Jenova as he is the only one with sephiroth cells. Its why he has an attachment to Cloud through his cells.
I need to stop here as i dont really know where i am going with this theory. I will have to contemplate some more to make sense of it.
Edit: you guys mentioned a theory that got me thinking. Did you notice in Nibelhime that sephiroth had a memory glitch like cloud does looking out the window. He states 'i feel like i been here before' or something along those lines. We know jenova messes with memories or can give new memories. Do you think all this time Jenova is actually manipulating sephiroth through his Jenova cells? It could mean he is reedemable maybe? He might have his own shadow work maybe in part 3? Who knows. Good stream 🔥💯
I LOVE this dive into Seph's character and the hypotheses you are coming up with! I would love to see at least half of what you covered in part 3. Just wow! Sephiroth has always been my favorite villain in the FF franchise, and having people have that same love for him is so cathartic! I almost want him to get a happy ending, but we know he's supposed to be the big bad, and usually, that never happens. Well, we will see!
I have my own theory when I played Rebirth, but it involves Jenova and her possible connection to the Gi Tribe. And it all steamed from the little figurines that Nanaki was bringing to the one gate to open it. The last one he that Nanaki collected I decided to looked at it and saw that it looked like a Jenova's tentacle, and then that was when I went back to the other three. To me, it looks like if you were to put the first two (the left ones) together, it would look like Sephiroth Reborn (Bizarro Seph), and the last two (the right ones) would look like Jenova. After hearing that the Gi Tribe made the Black Materia, I was like they have to be connected and would explain why neither Seph nor Jenova can merge with the planet (Gaia), Either Jenova was a rescue party to try to help the Gi get off the planet or Jenova was a summon like Meteor that wasn't as strong as Meteor. Jenova had to had influenced Sephiroth with despair, rage, sadness, and all the other negative emotions and could have been a way for him to seek out the Gi and the Black Materia. Gah I have so many theories in my head right now lol but this was my main one. But yeah I don't know how right this is but I'm telling you that Seph is trying to make that Black Materia grow stronger now.
These long long discussions are fucking hitting; please keep it tf up ; also obligatory s/o to sleepezi 👌🏾
On god 👏
YOOO Sleepezi. For two years, thanks to your videos, I think I have ascertained what the name of the third one is: FF7 Remembrance. Cause the lifestream is made of memories and some other shit that I dont feel like desdcribing now, but mark my words! FF VII Remembrance, Bob Ross called that shit!! Oh also hey Phillip, what's up man, I discovered you recently and you are in the same camp as Sleepezi in terms of my favorite YTers.
Not bad, but it does break the 2 syllables trend
@@rzxwm10careful, you'll get Nomura naming it something crazy like "Rememory" instead lmao
Sephiroth and Jenova are one and the same: the guy was injected with her cells before he was born, yet he's been able to overcome its influence and eventually dominate it. When he's beaten by Cloud and the party in the Northern Crater, he supposedly sheds away all of his humanity and binds his sense of self to Cloud in order to not be engulfed by the lifestream. So what's left is essentially Sephiroth's consciousness as Jenova cells swimming around the lifestream gathering knowledge and spreading corruption.
His story arc puts him as one of the few characters in the entire series that has an understanding of how the world works, especially after how he uses the Time Guardian's abilities at the Temple of the Ancients to travel through time and acquire even more knowledge. With the story being incomplete as of yet, there's still a possibility that us, the player's, eyes are clouded by what we've learned in the OG. It wasn't too long ago that we considered the Cetra as wholly good people whereas, starting from Aerith's mural to the Gi Nattak speech, we learn the actual truth of the matter is much more grey.
Post FF7Remake and FF7Rebirth discussions have become a great community event.
I hated Lucrecia's characterization in DoC. Square needs to decide if she is innocent and manipulated (and they'll need to REALLY do a lot of work to make this believable), or make her complicit and accountable to the Jenova/Sephiroth project.
She can even be regretful and not have known the extent of the project, that'd be fine, but this idea that she somehow ignored Hojo's madness and cruelty and still worked with him makes her nearly as bad as him.
Personally I think the best/most interesting option would be to have her fully on board when Ghast is involved in the Jenova project, enchanted with the thought of resurrecting the Ancients. It would be very compelling if she started excited about the project, gets pregnant, and then shortly thereafter Ghast abandons the project and escapes with Ifalna. At this point, she might feel trapped into the project, or Hojo might even prevent her from leaving after their lead test subject Ifalna had escaped.
Idk just spit balling. Lucrecia should be so interesting and easy to write well, it's wild DoC f'd up her story so much.
Thank you guys so much. Truly.
Fantastic chat once again guys.
You two ounce off each other so well.
Thank you both for your time.
I will refrain from dumping my own theories here but I just wanted to post to say this is BY FAR the most accurate analysis of the Rebirth story that I have seen so far (along with your other videos on the topic) I am just thankful that there is someone out there that can follow what's been shown in the Remake Trilogy without resorting to word vomiting about how they have ruined FF7.
Very refreshing to see and will be following your channels to hear more as we move into Part 3 territory. GREAT stuff guys.
*EDIT* I will just add here about something I noticed during the end section, when we go back to the 2 Weapons spiralling and glowing in the Lifestream, they appear to be above a building that looks suspiciously like the Church. Then they glow. Then the very next scene is Zack waking up in the Church. I find this kind of fascinating, although the only thing I can ascertain from this is that the Weapons are transporting people around the Lifestream.
In part 3, do you think Sephiroth is going to attempt to prevent Cloud's lifestream healing?
I want to see Sephiroth really try to derail Cloud's mind in the lifestream, even post-breakdown. Cloud recovering his sppressed memories is probably the greatest threat to Sephiroth's plans. I'm sure the devs will find a way to amplify the emotions like they did in other scenes, but I want to know what you think.
Maybe a Tifa vs Cloud bossfight. Make it really intense.
I've been wondering about that too, idk if I want it to happen though. Both Sephiroth and Aerith could get involved, but that scene was really important for Cloud and Tifa's relationship, and more significantly, it was the purpose of Tifa's entire character in the original.
I'm not fully against it, it could be a scene where Sephiroth/Aerith interfere initially, or perhaps Aerith protects Tifa and Cloud from Sephiroth while they put together Cloud's memory, but I hope they don't overdo it too much.
That scene is already a massive info dump and plenty interesting, I don't know how much more they need to add to it tbh (except for the Aerith-death-acceptance part, that will be incredible if they add it to this section)
Imagine if Part 3 establishes AC/the Compilation as, not an alt timeline, but a "nightmare" dream world created from Cloud's despair over Aerith's death
I wonder if your proposed "Sephiroth Lifestream sequence" is what Nomura recently talked about being added to the third part which isn't a part of the OG. I'm totally sold on wanting to see that
I would love to see a "Mother conflict" between Jenova and Lucrecia
What I ended up liking about the TFS that I didn’t expect to is, in many ways it feels like a “true-beginning” compared to the other prequels in FF7 like Before Crisis or Crisis Core. There’s still so much in those games that feels ambiguous about what came before. Seeing the actual origins of Sephiroth as a warrior, what shapes and drives him in his adolescence, how he forms bonds with Angeal or Genesis to have the connection with them he has in Crisis Core.. all of that felt so limited and lacking context in CC imo. So going back before those events, and seeing how it begins with Sephiroth and leads up to him becoming the big bad, really makes Cloud’s triumph over him feel even more earned.
I also really like the potential storytelling within the idea that… Cloud and Sephiroth are very similar in a lot of ways, but they are two sides of a coin. And one of the ways they’re depicting that is by inverting the circumstances of team-building. Cloud starts off a loner, and gradually builds up a globe-trotting team that starts to feel friendly and familial. Sephiroth on the other hand, *joins a team* and for one reason or another, isolates himself from them and causes them to feel like they need to distance themselves from him. Cloud’s humanity and humble roots draws power in and builds people up. Sephiroth’s power isolates others from him, and pushes people away. And I think TFS showing us this, with Glenn, Matt and Lucia, then Angeal and presumably Genesis and finally Zack… is a really great way to further show that.
Watching all these theories is like FF7 therapy for me. This is what i need to fill the void that is the wait for Pt3.
I feel we are now getting an anti hero in Sephiroth not a full on villain
Great discussion, plus we got some unexpected pizza ASMR 😄
Awesome conversation guys. Thanks so much for your time and thought processes. So rich and fun!
Amazing discussion and video. Thank you.
Nice discussion on your video as well !
After so many discussions you two are still so fresh, I really enjoy this video. Thanks for sharing
My theory is... when remake started... the timeline was already being altered... At first I thought hes conscious traveled back to change things because he knows too much but now I think he just had a vision of what was going to happen and planned a way to even make Holy dont get active this time around... little did he knew aerith being a Cetra with her powers could also change certain things like when Cloud came back from the other timeline with Aerith's materia activated and he goes like "That shouldn't be here"... she knew some things cant change in order to save everyone... it will be interesting what explanation they give in Part 3 and now that the director of the OG told Nomura about something they always had for the ending but didn't do at the end so that he could apply it now.
But Aerith too Is in the same situation,Because She too knows more than She could,about the future,despite the fact that,later,due to the action of the black whispers She loses some memories...and,a certain point,Sephiroth says "..good, Aerith,pray....." knowing very well that She's activating sancta,and doing nothing to stop her.
Got me thinking that, ultimately, the two sides in conflict are Team Rejection of Sephiroth, "Death is scary," vs. Team Recycle of Aerith, "Death is an opportunity for enlightenment. Two contrasting relationships with Death sort of "seducing" Cloud, and, yeah, us too on the meta with the use of mystery storytelling.
Sephiroth's manipulation of perspective has color coding and "spiritual energy" imagery continuously using horror and alienation vibes while Aerith's manipulation of perspective is color coded with rainbows and whimsy and celebrations. However the war depicted between Aerith and Sephiroth in ReTri so far feels less a conflict of destroying the other and more a tug of war over the favor of their creator (FF7 saga), of the planet (OG story), of the Lifestream (Compilation legacy), of Cloud (ReTri crux). Of the future.
Each side selling a contrasting relationship with death in ReTri being depicted as a wild psycho-cosmic tug o war over Cloud, the Lifestream, the planet, and us over the whole franchise is in line with death being at the core to FF7's conception and later personality with OG FF7.
FF7, as a sort of artificial human, is at an age in the collective consciousness to basically Reminisce on its "childhood" or a perceived era of the innocence it feels it has lost up to now. That loss being, again, a revelation of mortality, of living, and ultimately, of Death. And that's pretty damn FF7 of FF7 ReTri. So, is FF7 still human enough for us?
Ohhhhh Final Fantasy 7 Reminiscence 🪽
Edit: Forgot to mention, the depiction of the confluence of worlds mirroring Cloud's state of consciousness can be explained with what a person experiences during euphoria or panic attacks, states on the spectrum of ego death, where the conscious and unconscious breach each other. The Planet screams like a human, so what would a panic attack look like?
I don't think Dyne is a cetra , but I do think he fell into the lifestream when he lost his arm. This explains his mental health and his powers. As for Marlene ever crisis has given me some leads on that....
The thing about this conversation is is that it’s is is that it’s great.
In all seriousness, I haven’t had this much fun listening to theories since the buildup to KH2.
Thank you for sharing this.
I’ve listened through this four times now to absorb all the genius 🤯 Thank you
Loving the discussion!
I always wonder if the devs put this much thought into the visuals and the connections they make.
You'd think all these post FF7Re game theory discussions would get old. But, nope. Not by a longshot. Keep cooking guys.
57:45 I don’t feel like this “save everyone” sephiroth is accurate, in og ff7 he literally looks at the human race as scum to be wiped off the earth there is no illusion of “saving” no matter how demented you spin it. Trying to force sephiroth into some type of antihero would be a terrible move by the developers
They missed one thing in the REBIRTH game: when Cloud is in Costa Del Sol, they should have shown the stab mark from Sephiroth’s sword…. Unless Hojo did skin grafting….. that would have been a nice story telling note.
Dr Sheerhan did do a skin graft on her, as well as Marle from sector 7. You find out in traces of two pasts
@@malpercio123 I’m sure you meant him. Ok, cool.
@@Qarach_Ice ohh. No I totally misunderstood your question. Seeing his stab wound would have been incredible. There would be a Scar there!
@@malpercio123 it would have been an incredible reveal.
@@malpercio123 But she clearly had some kind of visible scarring. Unless she’s just flashing Cloud for tf of it.
The Icicle Inn area had a Snow enemy that is one of the three human woman-like variants that you can fight as monsters. We have yet to see them and the devs could try incorporating Lucrecia or even the Cetra with these monsters. As far as we know, the Snow monster you fight is sentient.
I saw those enemies again watching someone’s OG play through and realized we hadn’t seen them yet. Love your idea.
@@empty_melodies there's also two other variants that are fought as random enemies: jenemzy near the temple of the ancients area and pollensalta inside the northern crater.
YES another theory video!
Calling it now. The reason that Tifa saw Clouds memories is that blue whale she's swimming in IS Cloud. Same as why there is a pink weapon swimming like this yin yang pattern at the end. There is going to be a lot of time jumps (not just memories) but where you can interact with the world. We will find out what the heck the Cloud who escaped on the motorcycle while everyone else was dead or captured in the terrior universe was doing.
Cloud after the northern crater and is in a wheelchair is going to be doing a LOT In the other worlds.
Pink one reminds me of Aerith. Cloud also gets a pink flash of Aerith’s “death” which is different than the usual green Jenova ones when he’s sitting next to Tifa at the end of Rebirth
Just realised you posted this. It will be good 🔥💯
I'm psyched to see how FF16's boss battles and spectacle will inform the Weapon and final battles in FF7r3
The avengers podcast wasn’t enough I’ve been dying for more sleepezi
I wonder if we'll see Sephiroth or monster imagery applied to Cloud in part 3. We've seen a vision of Cloud as a robed man, and S and G-cell infectees take on a combination of monster traits and traits associated with their "master" (like the Genesis and Angeal copies). Grief and despair catalyze and accelerate geostigma and SOLDIER degredation, and the end result is a monstrous transformation or the victim's body literally rotting away.
Degredation makes SOLDIERs violent and hyper-aggressive, and Cloud's combat style shows this. Punisher Mode drives him "Berserk," Prime Mode upgrades it to "Fury." This perfectly maps onto his increasingly violent outbursts in Gongaga and the Temple of the Ancients, where you can hear Cloud laughing in the adrenalin of battle.
This is wishful thinking, but i really hope we get a Cloud boss fight at some point in part 3, to really pay off his escalating violence in both the story and gameplay. Maybe in the Northern Crater where he willingly gives himself and the Black Materia to Sephiroth after being destroyed by the truth of Aerith's death and his fake identity. At the very least, i expect another violent upgrade to the Punisher Mode system and the Black Materia to give him the Meteorain ability to really drive home his frenzied state. Similar to how Terra learns "Dark Impulse" in KH BBS and is forced to use it to kill Eraqus
This deepground battle needs to happen I will be extremely disappointed if it didn’t
Sephiroth to cloud "i give you my blessing"
hyped to watch this let’s go
That’s actually an outstanding theory on sephiroth. The ultimate hero who saves all.
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying haha
@@thatstheway2429 that’s why you shouldn’t think hehe
@@evasivedre370 lol
When these two get together, you know you're in for a good time.
1:09:08 Everybody gets what they want, it's the end of Sephiroth forever? I have to dissagree with that, I do not want that in the slightest.
I personally don't think Sephiroth is gonna die at the end of part 3. Jenovaroth might, but the real Sephiroth, the one at the edge of creation, won't. He even said at the end of remake that he won't end. I do not think they are making his backstory, showing how he became a hero and make us like him more, just to permanently kill him at the end. It would make no sense honestly. He's super popular and a lot of people would not be happy about that. Keeping him alive opens up possibilities for future spin offs and sequels also. Permanently killing him would be a huge mistake.
I know I'm super late, but I believe Max said the "see through her eyes" poster is a reference to a camera that had a promotional thing with OG FF7 in Japan.
The Remake basically doubled down on Sephiroth's messianich hero-complex that, frankly, was both lost in translation and overshadowed by his lust for power after the Nibelheim flashback
OMG!!!. Well now I know what I'm watching tonight!.
Sephiroth is not evil, in fact, he is actually very good, and crisis core showed that very well pre Niebleheim. I believe it is much simpler as they showed us that he and cloud has the same jenova headache, except he was fully succumb to jenova in niebleheim. This actually has prove where in rebirth Cloud went on a slaughter fest when briefly succumbed to Jenova.
This I believe is where life stream sephiroth awakes from jenova’s influence maybe post original ff7. Beyond the original ff7, the Sephiroth that Cloud face is actually Jenova. Same where Jenova is in the form of Hojo in youth Sephiroth’s mind. So everything is mirrored between Cloud rebirth and young Sephiroth.
I agree with this. It's also weird to me that nobody mentions the white feathers we see in rebirth. There's one in the beginning, one in chapter 13 when Aerith gets pushed by the whispers, and 2 when Sephiroth is descending to kill Aerith. I do not think they are develloping his past and showing hero, human Sephiroth represented by white feathers for no reason.
In regards to jenova complete, what I believe they will do for part 3, is something related to the fact that jenova, in theory, cannot be complete without sephiroth. That’s because seph himself has her cells within him too. He either has to be absorbed by her or he needs to absorb her to complete all her scattered parts. Maybe that’s the reason behind his line, when he says they will rule the planet together.
LEGENDS
I feel like you guys need to remember that Sephiroth does not like humans. He knows that they have caused his mother issues and he even states this before taking her out of the tube in Nibelheim. This has caused Sephiroth to lose all respect for humanity. Why would he want to save the people who hurt his mother? It just wouldn’t make any sense.
Spoilers from OG below
Jenova isn’t his mom.
@@HomeDefender30 I know this. I just referred to her as his mother since that's what he believes.
You're speaking about a Sephiroth under madness and under Jenova's Will.....But once there was a different Sephiroth,a sane One...and (as Aerith tells in her novel) in Lifestream there are all the memories of him in his Life precedent the Moment of Nibelheim....Throught such Memories,a sane Sephiroth still exists,is still possible
@@HomeDefender30. He has Jenova spliced into his cells. So genetically, she is a parent as much as his mom and dad are.
I agree, there is something to be said for Sephiroth considering himself a "hero" especially with the context from EC, but it's no longer for humanity's sake.
Sephiroth revels in sorrow, pain, and despair. His "camaraderie" with Cloud is parasitic, Lifestream Black tells us that he needs Cloud as his anchor for his identity, his hatred for Cloud is what sustains him.
The ONLY exception to this is if Edge of Creation Sephiroth truly is a fully separate entity from the Sephiroth that is stalking Cloud throughout Remake/Rebirth/AC.
I was hoping to hear more about the "ore/watashi" thing from these guys, and I'd played Rebirth assuming that we were back to "Watashi" Sephiroth for all of Rebirth. More recently I found out that his first line to Cloud in the game (post Nibelheim flashback), is when Tifa invites Cloud to talk to her outside, and Sephiroth appears to tell Cloud "I killed Tifa, so who is she?", and uses "ore" instead. He also uses "ore" again during Cloud's trial, in the scene where he tells Cloud to (in English, idr the exact line in JP, it's a bit different) "burn your world down, as I did." From what little I've been able to find, the most distinct "watashi" was only when he descended - wing expanded - to confront Cloud and the group during the Temple of the Ancients, just before the black materia room: "Yet I shall remain."
All of this is to say, Edge of Creation Sephiroth used to be identifiable by his different pronouns, but now psycho-Sephiroth is also using them periodically too. Not sure if this indicates there is a "good" EoC Sephiroth, if psycho-Sephiroth is manipulating Cloud by deliberately using "ore" to confuse him and us further, or if the devs are cooking something else completely.
Anyway, I got off track. Everything Sephiroth post-Nibelheim has said indicates that he hates humanity. The only thing he is interested in "saving" is the Planet, and he appears to be completely delusional about that, hearing its screams as cries of joy. I do think his pronouns are linked to which "version" of Sephiroth is on screen at the time, but at this point idk if any of them care about humanity or Cloud at all (beyond using Cloud as an anchor).
The prevailing theory from Remake that EoC Sephiroth was separate from the villain Sephiroth has become much less concrete after his portrayal in Rebirth, in my opinion. The dude is a goddamn enigma.
This thumbnail is amazing!
We degraded on stream so it was only proper 🗿
I’m so glad I’m not the only one smelling FF8 all over what’s going on. I’m thinking Sephiroth will make a World of Ruin/Time Compression after the failed attempt to blow up Meteor, creating the endgame world state where you can fight some secret bosses or whatever.
I’m just hoping Glenn isn’t gonna Squall at the very end…
About Cloud seeing Aerith's ghost in part 3:
At the end of Rebirth, Cloud and ghost-Aerith have a conversation, and you can tell Cloud understands she has to separate from the party. He says, "Are you going to have trouble getting back?"(paraphrasing).
We don't know where she is going to, or if it even matters, but we do know that Cloud understands that Aerith needs to be away from the party. So I don't think he is going to see ongoing hallucinations.
He definitely still thinks she's alive, however.
Phil & Sleepezi let’s gooo 🔥
Bout time you got a REAL theory crafter on here
As I said many times, Sephiroth is Anakin Skywalker turned Darth Vader )
What if there is really not that huge plot behind the EoC in First Soldier? Maybe this scene is only explaining, why Sephiroth behaved differently with Cloud in the scene at the end of Remake. He tried it with compassion, as he remembered this can brake the cycle of hate. But it's a dead end with Cloud, showing compassion / being nice won't work.
This is also the reason why we don't see this EoC Sephiroth in Rebirth anymore, because there are no different versions of him. He is always the same, just tried a different strategy. And he simply wants Cloud to survive so he can always return through Cloud (as we know from on the way to a smile and AC). And he needs him for the reunion, and to deliver the Black Materia. So I think his interest in Cloud will immediately dissolve once he gets the Black Materia and summon Meteor in Part 3.
If it is really that important, they would have incorporated it in Rebirth. Maybe it is only a backstory to finally give his character the hero story he deserves in my opinion. And I really love what they are doing. I just don't think it will have that great impact in the main story. (I really want to be wrong here, but I am just lowering my expectations.. Just in case)
I still think that The Void is capable of erasing Sephiroth.
Analyzing the characteristics of recent events, it is important to not only look at the parallels present throughout the entire game series, including Ever Crisis and the Remake trilogy, but also to consider what the game itself signals. This includes questioning why certain changes were made by the creators, why these specific changes were implemented, and where they might lead:
ruclips.net/video/zE77gooam1w/видео.htmlsi=bVIlNTXSy9wl9lwJ
You guys just created my new head canon. Chapter 1 of part 3 will be Sephiroth’s lifestream flashback.
Around 2h20m when you mention the White Whispers surround masamune and Aerith effectively unalived herself! Yes dawg. The W Whispers enemy Intel says they are there to make sure the INEVITABLE HAPPENS.
did u guys notice that aerith actually held masumane at the end cutscene with the tiny bronko? u can see it
Phil not seeing that Aerith shot her shot with Cloud rather than what he thinks shes doing is his biggest blindspot. She meant "liking" Marlene told Zack and us it's "liking". There are two theme songs where the lyrics talk about finding each other. The messaging is everywhere.
It's all to set up so that Cloud thinks Aerith is his GF now. They had a date, she confessed her feelings, he "saves her life" from his POV and at the end he is smiling consistently at het (delusion, ghost, alt world, who knows). It's heartbreaking if it all turns out to be a lie created while disassociating.
It's not going to be about guilt now unlike AC but something darker with that theme of denial and hope that he finally is getting that connection and realizing it was ripped away and he missed it is going to be really thematically important.
yeah he is coping on that part low-key
if sephiroth really was in some trance by jenova in neblheim then was able to escape and ascend thanks to cloud which is why he shows this obsession, then does that mean hes in a strange way grateful to cloud and views him almost as his hero, for stopping him and vice versa in a way saving him???
Really awesome theories and observations, but why is Philip so sure that 'the true aerith" was killed in the church. It was deliberately NOT shown and she later appears at the watery edge of creation. Also maybe the church might just become the same church Zack was waiting in front of when Seph passed him.
Yes the straps were different but when Aerith opens the portal the reality switches (see chairs vanish) so it might be just the reality where Seph enters the church after he sends Zack away.
I also don't understand why everybody is so convinced that he killed her in that scene... I mean maybe, but they didn't show it, and he doesn't even have his sword out. That's what they want us to think, but I'm not convinced that's what happened. Also Aerith gets a gold pin in this world and I think it is going to be an important detail to recognise that particular Aerith in part 3.
@@bonni4493 Agree, imagine they started a talk instead...would be exciting...
@@HuangHao-ol7ww I would love that so much
Great theory talk. BTW, the video description has an incorrect user tag. 🙃
I always thought he died during the week in the library and his Jenova cells took dominance
Loveless is the key to everything.
Genesis was right.
Sephiroth is a Thanos type. He has an intention that could be seen as maybe good but it's twisted, and ultimately he still has to go down. Omni Seph knows he will lose, it's happened multiple times by Cloud (Nibelheim, OG end, Advent Children). He knows the only way to not lose is have Cloud join him and "defy destiny". Edge of Creation/Omni Seph was also once human. I don't want him to be a good guy, but they're just expanding his tragedy. In OG, he goes crazy after learning of his birth then we kill him at the end, we don't even get a fight vs a regular Seph, only the ult forms. 30 Year Cook continues
Agreed on you here, they're the best examples of machiavellians
Oh hell yea dudes
The way I see the rainbow glow, it doesn't signal the creation of a new timeline, rather it depicts a fixed point in time and a wrong choice correcting.
When you first see it, Zach has to make a choice. Go to Biggs or go to Hojo. He goes to HoJo and we see the rainbow glow fill the Biggs path. Next time we see Zach hes with Biggs and still thinks he's defied destiny. The timeline resets back to destiny's path.
I think the same has happened with the sword deflection. Cloud did save her, he's not allowed to, it resets but he still thinks he's defied destiny. However he's far more instable than zach so it takes a toll on him.
Let say for the sake of conversation.
Will Cloud be in a position where he chooses who he saves? a world where Aerith & Zack lives? or the world where everyone else lives? just how Sephiroth had to do with Rosen?
Zack's Cloud, the one in the wheelchair, has not met Aerith yet. His uniform is just like Zack's, with the two shoulder pads. When Aerith woke up Cloud, in the wheelchair, he only had one shoulder pad, the same uniform he wears throughout the game. So, I'm thinking there are two different timelines. Zack thinks that it is HIS Cloud that need to save Aerith but it is another Cloud. What do you guys think?
I’m not really in favor of a Sephirot that turns good or the idea of 2 Sephirots roaming around. I’m still down for an expansion backstory for Sephirot, how he lacks Agency, identity, and purpose. This is my headcanon, Sephirot lived and act like a human due to the mimicry ability of Jenova due to his cells, but of course never really understood why and felt something was off, until he founds out about the truth of his birth. His sudden change is him finding pleasure and purpose being the son of Jenova because it’s his nature, not only he is the son of Jenova, but also the son of the twisted Hojo and for that reason he enjoys the murder and adopts a god complex. It still follows the theme of identity because he still lacks the understanding of his parents, and instead bases his persona in an incomplete truth. He is to far gone to now redeem him. And there is still the aspect of his character design, ost, body language that makes a threatening individual and it doesn’t fit for a good Sephirot.
if u play dirge genesis is waiting for the true end of the world which in end credit scene dirge happens and he flys away with white haired dude whatever his name is, and if ur theories are correct and everything has merged one way or another then genesis should appear near the end to fight sephiroth with everyone, when the goddess calls and the end is nigh or whatever the loveless poem he quotes is
damn phil got sleepezi before bbseal
Did you see the podcast wth sleepezi and bbseal a couple eeeks ago?
@@kayladaly8378 the one with max or the other one?
W Thumbnail
Much like how the translation fell short when calling Hojo "Helletic" and not Heretic, the form matches the intent much more clearly when you change Safer to "Savior Sephiroth". It's been there the whole time . . . I think.
us on the west is alittle slower on realizing what right in front of us. the movie is not marvel the movie is Matrix or Nightmare on Elm street. its clear from rebirth that cloud & aerith travel between worlds by falling asleep. and Zack takes on a role like Agent Smith making copies of his self.
The story in rebirth as in main story was same length in remake. Most of rebirths 100 hours are searching the landscape for mako, towers etc. and imo remake being more linear gave me a better connection to the characters and story. Not to mention Biggs, Jessie, wedge, were better side characters than anyone in rebirth imo. I love a lot they did with rebirth, and I’m still here for the story, but as far as story and attention are concerned, I like remake better. Something about looking up at the plate the first time in that game that hits me in the feels. And the boss fights overall were better in remake. Just my opinion
Lool 2:17:30 I totally get Sleepezi's reaction when Philip starting eating his snack 🤣. Anyways great video and discussion guys! I agree with the fact that a game like Rebirth almost makes me forget I'm a visual designer haha
Just like we talked a little about how Nomura 'style of design' is comparable to recognizing paintings made by Van Gogh, the same goes for Nojima's writing. The similarities with FFVIIRebirth and FFX are so abundant in this game. This especially hit me when Aerith did her Yuna dance in Temple of the Ancients and when Sephiroth goes on his 'villain explanation' about the whole multiple worlds/dreams thing.
My fun theory is Jenova losing her own personality in Sephiroth like Cloud did with Zack
If Sephiroth can mimic Glenn.. & Glenn is potentially Clouds father… 🤯
Kind of like yu Yvon in final fantasy 10
I can see Sephiroth Reborn shedding his skin to reveal human skin and feathers. Yikes he'd probably still be hot.
So sepheroth is an ascien?
He does have that Emit Selch energy 🤔
There is an overarching trend in society toward nostalgia getting so advanced, its more like than original than the original. Its like ppl going back in time and letting ppl be perfectionists
Forget the theory. This wasn’t supposed to be theory. The story was written in the 90s. Damn square. Damn
Those who look with Clouded eyes see nothing but shadows
Seph real plan did come to fruition, SE shares dropped 16% due to poor sales just like he predicted.
The Sony esclusive Is ending and the game Will soon arrives on other platform...Just wait and a lot of things will change
Sales are down industry wide since the pandemic, might actually never reach those levels again, plus inflation is changing spending trends. On top of that, Rebirth is a PS5 exclusive, a more expensive console with smaller install base.
Sephiroth: Shall I give you despair?
Square: Nah, you are getting another Wind Mastery outfit.
Sephiroth: pikachu face
Interesting convo, could of done without the 30min of munching and crunching into the mic but overall good.