Is she alive? Is she dead? We don’t know? We saw her alive but we saw her dead too. Maybe if we put a flower in a box, maybe everything will solve itself....right?
@@flameroad123 It kind of already is confirmed. Max didn't cover it but there's an interview with Nojima in the new ultimania where he says that he knows fans wanted Aerith to live, but the main story will still follow the original.
By the Gospel of Doom... Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive." Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial." Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..." Look at those daisies in Aerith's inn rooms, next to her Reunion flowers in the ending. Look at those portraits of rabbits and TELL ME DOOMGUY HIMSELF DIDN'T SAVE AERITH. This is a game which has hippies who admit they don't know everything. If METAL isn't in you, then you cannot comprehend these greater things.
@@brandonbulthuis2740 3/3/2020 - FF7 Remake original release date 3/20/2020 - Doom Eternal release date Aerith held her hands like RIP AND TEAR when she said "rip em off" to Corneo. Evenly spaced RED RUNES in the black materia chamber. Cloud puts that materia in his GIANT SWORD. RED RUNES. GIANT SWORD. CRUCIBLE. The streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers!
The separation anxiety was real man, I feel you. There was a good week where I just could not figure out what to play after finishing Rebirth, even though I had stuff lined up that I wanted to start or go back to. My brain couldn't move on though. Definitely similar to Elden Ring in that way, as you said.
I definitely think that Cloud isn't just seeing hallucinations of Sephiroth, Aerith, and the sky tear, I think he can somehow see into other realities (maybe in a similar way to how Sephiroth can seemingly move between them). That's the significance of the scene where Cloud is talking to Aerith at the end, and tells everyone not to look up at the sky. He can see into another world where Aerith lived (a reality that is collapsing like the other branched realities), but no one else can see that. And we know he can interact with things in those other worlds, swapping around the White/Clear materia, doing Synchronization attacks with Zack, etc.
I will say It is true that cloud can sometimes see things no one else can see, It happens throughout the game with Sephiroth. It is definitely possible he’s literally seeing this other reality but at the end of the day it’s probably still sephy fucking with him in a roundabout way
I think Sephiroth forged the ultimate black materia by harvesting the despair of multiple dying timeliness, that's why it showed up in Clouds pocket at the end, and the transparent materia will work as a vessel for a new white materia when Cloud regains his consciousness, that's why Aerith always says "take care of yourself". And the alternate dying scene was a plan by Aerith to cripple the ultimate black materia, now it's flawed, as flawed as my theory. Thanks for attending my TED talk. Edit: just wanted to note, that's why they included and added the Lore of the Gi, to show the mechanics of the black materia or materia forging.
@@M0rD0l because the white materia they already have casts Holy, while they might be attempting to forge something else. The black materia Sephiroth has crafter after Aerith's death we assume it's the black materia that casts meteor, but in "my theory" I think it's meant to do something else entirely. Also, Sephiroth knows that this new materia might be flawed, because not all the pain and sorrow could be harvested, and he realizes this on the last fight against Cloud and Aerith and that's why he was so upset, but when he leaves he might have seen another path to achieve a somewhat similar result, by also trying to flaw this potential new white materia, by forcing Cloud see images of a fake Aerith that forces him to take bad decisions and focus on revenge against Sephiroth, as you know, Cloud promised "Aerith" to face Sephiroth ;)
@@TotallyNotSeba I definitely agree with the new Black Materia being flawed, since I really like the idea that Sephiroth, in his attempts to make Cloud feel sorrow after Aerith's dead, never actually realized how broken Cloud truly is. Cloud is so broken that he doesn't even register that Aerith died, so he unintentionally counters Sephiroth's attempts to make an ultimate black materia by being completely broken at that point, which just seems super badass. And in doing so, Sephiroth might potentially ruin his own plans, just like how he screwed up in the OG by killing Aerith. All of it coming full circle.
The reason why cloud has the black materia in the end is because in part 3 just like the original game he GIVES IT TO SEPH who then summons METEOR seph controls cloud one final time and takes him to the northern cave where the real seph is at who’s body is preserved by the lifestream
The idea of Zack's choices creating more timelines is super interesting, and I look forward to seeing what role he will play in part 3 as this "anomaly" or "variant." He's basically... at the core of this crisis. ...I'll see myself out.
I agree with you on Vincent. Some of the moments I laughed more were Vincent's moments, for example when he says "cozy design" in the Haunted Hotel hahaha
One of the things I adore about how they decided to depict Sephiroth in this new project is that... OG Sephiroth was this menacing threat, and yes, there was a mystery to him, and he didn't show up often. Lots of people argue this, and even though I understand their point of view, I think that this new take brings a new perspective, as in: if newcomers just get to know Sephiroth by playing Remake for the first time, they see this complete maniac that keeps harassing Cloud all the time, an interdimensional being that can literally stop time like he did in the beginning of Remake when he touches Aerith's shoulder, manipulate visions, and has the capacity of literally interfere with fate, control arbiters, change events, etc, and THEN... we see him as a seemingly regular first class SOLDIER in Rebirth's Nibelheim flashback. So new players could start pondering like... "How did this 'regular' guy, a strong SOLDIER, but still, become that being with such a boundless power?" That's why this new appeal is so interesting to me. Is a new form of mystery done correctly, in my opinion, to a character that is more powerful and intriguing than he ever was.
What I really love about Rebirth is how the "hero" Sephiroth was depicted vastly different with the "villain" Sephiroth in terms of disposition. While I love the OG, I feel that it really didn't completely depict how chill and calm of a dude the hero Sephiroth is. Like even Crisis Core didn't depict this much.
I think both the OG and Crisis Core showed us a sympathetic side of Sephiroth. The way he respected Ghast and chided Hojo showed us at once a good judge of character as well as laudable values to base that judgement on. The way he lamented his own past softly, thinking about not having a hometown... the obvious pain he felt when he realized his mother's name was nothing more than an experiment. In the OG, you even got to go through phases of misunderstanding with Sephiroth, where he thought he was an ancient, and where, seemingly all along, he believed he was created and never learned about his true mother, Lucrecia. The fact that he never knew is another point of sympathy towards him, because it was this sort of redeeming fact, the silver lining on the clouds, and he never got to know about it, but the player did. In the new telling, he has such broad awareness of everything right down to the mechanics of time and space and the nature of reality itself, that it's hard to believe he doesn't know who his real mother was, or that she lives in eternal atonement for not getting to hold him as a baby and save him from his fate, that she loved him and wanted him. It's hard to think that this practically omniscient Sephiroth doesn't know, and it makes him actually a little less sympathetic than the OG representation imo. What's more, I think in the new telling they're trying to show us a parallel between him and Cloud. Cloud, from the OG you may recall, didn't hang out with the usual crowd that played with Tifa; he thought they were stupid, he thought he was special and better than them. Later, with the memory, physique and abilities of a SOLDIER: First Class, he's confronted with inconsistencies in his origin that are hard to answer for, and seemingly the truth is that he was created as a clone-puppet of Sephiroth; that he has a monstrous origin and isn't even a real person. Thus Sephiroth tells him to burn his world to the ground, "Just as I did;" for this is all very much like Sephiroth's story, knowing that he was special only to find horror in his origin, lose his shit, and exact bottomless vengeance on the world and everything in it, in retaliation.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Aerith being dead dead. They seem to be paralleling what happened with Nibelheim. In the OG when Sephiroth tells cloud he wasn't at Nibelheim in the northern crater and Tifa confirms it completely shatters him because he knows he was there even though it wasn't as he told it. Him thinking he completely forgot the facts of losing his mom and hometown shattered him since he already knew something was wrong with him.. This could mirror that. Cloud "saves" her but sephiroth uses his power to merge in the world where she died. Everyone else sees her dead but cloud believes she is alive. Sephiroth will tell him he didn't save Aerith, Tifa will confirm it and it will shatter him. The truth will be that he saved her just not in the way people expected.
There's that scene when cait sits reads your fortune and it's something like expectations creating disappointment, followed by something ending in a last minute twist. It foreshadowed the ending all along
I strongly dislike this theory for a lot of reasons, but two big ones stick out: First, the time between Aerith's death and Sephiroth's mind breaking gaslight is too short, presuming it will happen around the same time it does in the OG (which it basically has to for scenario reasons). Sephiroth's taunting Cloud into believing he's a clone works because it shakes Cloud's entire being; it throws who he's been from minute one of the game (and since the day he was born) into question. To shift the primary mind breaking to Aerith's being dead would be a massive lowering of stakes, referring to an event that happened a few in-game days ago at best. Second, the "You are not Cloud Strife" gaslight of the original vitally contributes to Cloud's arc, the mystery and intrigue that surrounds nibelheim, and the game's core theme of identity (coming to terms with oneself and ones failures). I get that this core of FFVII has been undermined by Remake for the sake of subversion and newness, but shifting the primary reason for Cloud's mind break away from his identity crisis isn't it. I feel like fans get so caught up theorycrafting about the mind bending alternate world shenanigans that they forget the thematic core that made the original good.
@@Swerg20 Oh, not that. I watched most of that stream live. I want a complication of Max reacting to the music during his playthrough of the game. Someone mentioned it during a live stream a while back and I think it's a great idea.
I played the og in 97 when i was 13 and im 39 now. This game was my teen years and what they have done with it is so fucking cool. I cant waitnfor part 3 cloud is seriously fucked in this one man and the pay off when we get aeriths funeral scene and cloud finding himself will be sensational. Bravo square i simply fucking love this.
Man, I relate so hard to what you said about feeling like you have to remind yourself your life exists outside the game and also to the fact that the last time you felt that was with Elden Ring. I feel exactly the same; most games I can just pickup for a bit and move on once finishing them but Elden Ring and this game totally consumed me and I feel like I don’t know what to do with myself after rolling credits today…which is precisely why I came to this video 😂.
Been playing ff7 since I was 12. Blew my mind when it came out. My favorite game and I have beaten it over 10 times. So fun to hear different theories from a fellow fan.
I've also played the original way over 10 times. Every time there was a rumor that you could find a way to save Aerith. Those of you who want her to die, just play the original. I want her to survive. After making it so that remake was about fighting destiny it would suck if they went back on it and did let it play out the same. I finally want that happy ending. I guess the best would be if they gave the game multiple endings, the ones who want Aerith to stay dead get to play their route and those who want to change fate and get her back can take that route.
@@joellarsson9486 All the nostalgic fans who don't want anything about the story and gameplay to change. There are some die hard fans of the original who totally hate the new games.
@@maythesciencebewithyou yeah I guess you are right. After the trilogy they could make a whole different remake of the same game in different way and we would buy it. Many wants a classic turn based ff7 with just better graphics. But I guess there are mods for that.
@@maillardsbearcat That's where my head is at. I'll reserve my judgement until I see if they can stick the landing or not. I don't hate the ending, but I also don't love it. I'm okay with it and I'm interested to see where they are going with it, but it's up to them to follow through and close this story in a satisfying way.
Not sure if someone else mentioned it, but Back to the Future II and III actually were shot consecutively. Hence Part II has tons of callforwards to Part III and there was even a mini-trailer for III that showed at the end of II.
One thing about Tifa’s flashes that I thought about after reading the Ultimania tweets was that they were trying to hint at Cloud’s inability to cope with Aerith’s death and the denial of it. What I think happens with Tifa is that, when she first comes across the scene, her mind ALSO tries to repress or deny what she is seeing, but she ultimately accepts reality. So I think it’s her mind flashing back and forth between, “No way… is she…? no, she can’t be… oh god, she’s…” And that’s used to hint at what is happening with Cloud.
@@GameshinbunTVbecause her and red are connected, Hojo locked both of them up in the past. Red talked to Aerith about losing their memories from the whispers, and she is also the first one to bring out his child voice. Red and Aerirh are connected,
If we are to assume that's directly her perspective of seeing two different things and not a she sees her bloody body and Cloud's reality is that she's alive and there's no blood then sure though then each party member would feel the same and they show their face as well with similar reaction
Honestly im just scared that it all leads to nothing - after the first part i was super excited to see what they are going to do - then while playing the second one i was - ah ok they decided to stick to the original and just "remake" it... fine, but then change it all up right at the end without really changing it up - so right now im just scared that they just did it for the cliffhanger effect and the game will just play out normal with a little fluff at the side - which would be fine if they did it right from the start but would be super depressing for ME after the endings of part 1 and 2
Agreed. If they've set up all of this crazy stuff over two games, and it turns out essentially pointless and just a full-on troll for intrigue and sales, ima be pissed. I bought a PS5 just for Rebirth (it's all I'll use it for), but if they're pulling some pure marketing psych crap here with no payoff, and we end up in the same lore position with the utter crap that is advent children, SE can honestly F-O.
There are two camps I think, Absolute purists who want to modern presentation of the same game or Those who want that but are open to change and want things to be different this time I’m firmly in the second camp. Time is looping and Sephiroth is trying to get his wishes by killing Clouds support network (attempting to kill Barrett and Tifa both) and constraining Aerith to a different reality We know this is happening because we know Red XIII and Aerith could see the future ( Red shared this in the date scene in Gold Saucer). If Aerith also knows and retains her memory, things can be different this time!
Yup all that plus no ultima weapons , no knights of the round, no fighting ruby or ultimate weapons , all the things that made ff7 special probably won't be in part 3
None of the whole with Cloud 'rejecting' Aerith's death fits well with the part where Red XIII senses Aerith's presence. I think they are doing something elaborate and weird and it's not just "Cloud is nuts".
I think it's both. Her spirit is lingering, but also he's CLEARLY in denial. Every time he tries to remember about her death, he literally gets a migraine.
@@dolurosu Cloud rejecting her death is a lot easier if he's also able to see/interact with a parallel world where she actually is totally fine. It would even still facilitate a little "Cloud is nuts" thing because his rejection of reality isn't just in his head now, he's literally not able to seperate what realities he's seeing because they both simultaneously actually exist.
Because Cloud seeing Aerith is not a hallucination. It's like a ghost of sorts, like when he sees her in Advent Children, or when she appears at the end of OG FF7. But Cloud doesn't realize she is a ghost, he believes she is still there with them alive.
A rainbow can be created by splitting a beam of light through a prism. I think the intention is that the rainbow just symbolizes the splitting of the timeline from a single by and action. This is made clear by Zack’s decisions creating different timelines.
I swear to god if the fusion sword is a playable weapon and it functions like it does in the movie the other swords better be the bees knees cause if not I’m not using any other sword the whole game.
@@ToxicVex267: Highest likelihood that if it is in the game, it'll be the last obtainable one. And here's a wild idea: Max has been suggesting that, assuming Knights of the Round is in Part 3, we would probably have to do some multi-part Protorelic-like quest to get it complete by the endgame. What if they did that, or something like it, with the Fusion Sword? Maybe each of the swords you collect throughout the game eventually combine to form it by the end, so it can also thematically fit with the idea that everything you've been through comes together to give you the strength to win? (This is assuming it's intended to be cannon to the story to obtain, as opposed to an endgame/post game/hard mode only piece with some nearly game-breaking ability attached. Considering every weapon in these games comes with an ability attached, if it appears I'm doubting they would want it missable.) Or they do something with Gilgamesh again, but this time you have to fight him multiple times for each piece (or pieces) of the sword? And after getting the final piece Gilgamesh once again recognizes you as an/The "Ultimate Swordsman"?
@@spoonimefan that would be cool like each knight you defeat gives you a part of the sword and it would be cool if they had their own play style like the twin parts have fast attacks but do little damage some thing like that.
@@ToxicVex267 : 🤔 Hadn't considered the *Knights* being the ones to grant the pieces, but that's not a bad idea either. And if I remember correctly, the animations for one or some of the Knights had them dual-wielding. Considering some of them appeared to use magic blasts too, and some weapons lean more toward magic than physical or balanced properties, that could work on multiple levels. Hmm ... 🤔
at around 7:44 max talks about it being a visual cue but cloud at one point at the end of date timeline, cloud asks what is this? so it can be inferred that the rainbow effect is just not a visual cue but actually occurs for cloud and co. as well. In regards of the date, I believe the red 13 date is the most canon date because it gives context that red/aerith could see the future before that ability got taken away and red asks cloud to save aerith from something scary happening.
With regard to the various worlds of Zack, we should recall that there is perhaps another - the one we saw at the end of Intergrade, where Zack bursts through the doors of the Church to announce his return, only to be met with the sad crowd. That scene never happened in any of the worlds we visited so far with Zack (that we know of, anyway). It seems instead that he hobbled into town with Cloud, stowed him away with a stranger temporarily, and went on to more heroics, upon which he had already discovered Aerith, so popping through the church doors to attempt to greet her would be irrational. So this scene is either effectively retconned (which has not been SE's style with FF7 thus far) or it's a hanging plot element that we still don't know where it belongs in the grand scheme of things.
Also, Zack from the church scene had a clean face, while the start of Rebirth shows him dirty. Idk tho, they might have just forgotten about it, or already made the scene and couldn't change it after.
its just another reality, there's countless, and it doesn't matter which or how many the fact theres multiple is all that matters, every showing of one is just a reminder
@@allgaming9737 True, we've seen that the story writing for the next game isn't already in place at the conclusion of the current one, so maybe they just shrugged and figured it was easily written off as one of infinite worlds where things were very different from all the other ones we've seen. I hope that the next game sees us with a single world, that Sephiroth's reunion/worlds merge thing was the end of that. In a way it seems to lower the stakes and even sort of cheapen the story and characters when they're just one of an infinite number of versions of themselves. It's like oh, we lost this one, but there's an infinite number in the reserves. idk
@@Nolzhan why would he burst through the door looking for Aerith when he knew she was at her mom's house with Cloud? Also, when he enters the church, there we're a bunch of people crying inside, which contradicts Rebirth where it was only Cloud and Aerith right before Sephiroth came.
I'm good with a happy ending for these characters. The OG game was about loss, the remake doesn't need to be. The remake doesn't overwrite or replace the OG. It doesn't need to have the same themes. These characters deserve life, love, and happiness. If you get the Nanaki Skywheel date, he tells Cloud that he and Aerith knew the future, but don't any longer. Cloud tells him that there isn't much point in knowing fate if you can't do anything to change it. I echo that sentiment. There is no point to any of this if it all ends up in the same place anyway. Nobody needs to die. That was the old game. Give us a happy ending. Just my opinion.
I feel the same way man. If they’re talking about trying to change fate, give us that. And not the, “accept you fate and move on” type of story. If the characters knew their fates, ofc they would try to change it. By not letting that happen it would be the opposite of whatever message they’re trying to give
Same. Why not have a happy ending? I don’t get the argument against it. It’s just as valid as any other ending they could do, and would be satisfying unless you’re one of those people where happy endings make you unhappy for some reason.
Same. Give us a happy ending. The flower girl deserves it after 27 years of pain and loss. She’s already had the theme of loss. We have already experienced it. So did our characters. Time to heal. Let us and the characters be sent off happily. I’m not saying wedding bells , but everyone happy finally.
@@kelss.5098why do I feel that the idea of the planet as the spirit will stop like the ways the planet reincarnation ends. Or a huge change in how the planet exists going forward. Things the way we know them will end.
@Maximillan Dood , The part about the sector 5 when people look up and see the rifts in the sky, I think that it is like the Doctor Strange moment in Spiderman of all the worlds come together and Aeirith is trying to close them possibly.
I’m surprised nobody brought this up anywhere yet but my interpretation of the ending scene was that Cloud DID create an alternate world where she lives but he’s stuck between them somehow in a limbo. I have a feeling we’ll see moments of Cloud seeing other things different than the party like a different stamp and Aerith will probably be able to help remotely through him as the connection point or something. Him being a link between worlds would make the Tifa moment where she rescues his mind very very interesting, probably bearing witness to more crazy shit.
Yeah I feel like the very ending scene in particular is very specifically constructed in a way to make us THINK that Cloud is completely crazy, but there's some inconsistencies in there that seem to indicate, at least to me, that not everything he's seeing is false. Like the most interesting way they could take it for me is to make the party, the player, and even Cloud himself think everything he's seeing is just a hallucination, just to reveal "NO WAIT THOSE PARTICULAR PARTS WERE ACTUALLY REAL THE WHOLE TIME"
I thought something similar to this. But my theory was that the REMAKE timeline IS the timeline where she was saved and the one where she did not get saved is the new timeline. I have a hunch that the REMAKE timeline is a timeline where they keep defying destiny without fail and it continues to make new timelines because of it.
I don't think airship is even hard. You just use lower LoD versions of the map to cover the whole thing, and then it would take at least a few seconds to land and disembark, during which it can load in the higher detail version of the world. Nobody would notice, because there would be enough detail to sell the scene while flying, it would look natural.
@@timogulyup, could cut to in the cabin, providing a brief loading corridor for you to run out of and slide down a ladder or summit,. If even necessary at all.
@@Kean_Bean Yup, and the time it would take is a lot less than people would think, based on previous generations. Between SSD load times and Unreal 5 tech, this sort of LoD swapping is fairly minimal. It might even be possible to do in realtime, just loading in the detail right nearby first, then expanding outward from there. So long as you can't land literally on any location you want (limited to certain open fields or even radio towers), they can make sure the landing zones are not so content dense that you'd immediately notice anything happening.
There's a lot of big things that we're all anticipating how they'd go about doing things; things like the Highwind, the WEAPONs, Omnislash, Knights of the Round, etc.
I have waited SO LONG FOR THIS VIDEOOOOOOOO AAHHHH So happy its finally here, I love theorizing about this game and talking/ listening to you Max and everyone else here
Max! Tell your friends at Square that they need to add SUPER DUNK at the Gold saucer in the form of NBA Hangtime. 2v2 Tifa slammin' hard on Cloud Let's gooooooo!
😄 Tifa Meteor Smash-ing the ball like an enemy in one of her old Limit Breaks. Or using Divekick, but the ref is too scared to foul her for using her feet!
I think a lot of the lifestream Aerith/Hallucination Aerith can be explained from the OG when Tifa and Cloud fall into the Lifestream in Mideel. Tifa sees and can actually interact with many different Clouds from many different times INCLUDING Zack.
I was the dork taking the book from the CD to school and reading about it when the game first came out lol. Everything leading up to the ending (temple of the ancients onwards) definitely subverted my expectations. It is way different, but the same. I like what they are doing with the new story. One thing I want is the post credit scene from the original at the very least. I felt that scene really wraps up why they were doing this in the first place and it is that bitter sweet conclusion I thought the original had.
I want them to include it, but with a twist (like pretty much everything in regards to the lore of these games). Like, instead of a dying world, show one that is thriving, and full of life. Or something like that, idk
Why is nobody talking about the fact that in Remake Part 1, when Cloud falls into the church, he is literally in this white void with yellow petals, just like Zack at the end of Rebirth where Zack touches Cloud? Additionally, in Part 1, Cloud meets another version of himself in that void who says, 'Made it through with just a couple of scraped knees back then.' This seems to imply that it might be a sequel of some sort, or that everything has already happened.
I just took it as parts of Cloud just talking to each other as he's unconscious. Sephiroth is his trauma reminder so thats why he also pops in for that all white room scene.
The scraped knees line was in the OG, it’s a reference to him and Tifa falling off mount Nibel. Tifa was severely injured, Cloud just scraped his knees
That's just the real Cloud locked inside his mind talking to him, referring to the time he and Tifa fell off Mt. Nibel and he just scrapped his knees. The line was on the OG too.
Max mentions that the different timelines and all the multiverse stuf probably wont have a big effect in the story in part 3, but if thats the case then i find it harder to understand why the devs decided to introduce this element to the story, if they wanted to have cool boss fight at the end of part 1 and 2 i think there could have been easier ways to do that than trying to fit the original ff 7 story into the new muliverse storyline that they created. Reagardless if they stick the landing in part 3, I would be very happy if at one point in the story Cloud and the party change into their Advent Children outfits, maybe after Cloud recuperates from his fractured mind
They are saying the next game will be the best in the history of video games and I already feel that way about rebirth. It has everything you could ever want and anything you don’t really like you can skip but I love it all give it to me yessss
Hahahaha max i feel you on that one i literally took a week off work ready for rebirth and when it came round to playing i had to book another week off 🤣 thankfully i had a lot of holiday left and my boss was kind enough to oblige because maaaaan rebirth took over my life for those 2 weeks !! I lost so much sleep because i was genuinely hooked !! Such an amazing experience and I can’t wait to come back later and play again in the future now that i have the platinum i can just experience the story ❤ this game is the goat !! Love hearing you talk about this franchise man because you’re the only other person i’ve seen with the same level of passion i have for the game it’s awesome bro ❤
Okay I desperately needed this video because I finally got around to beating it yesterday and was semi lukewarm on the ending because it felt like Remake where I loved almost everything right up until the ending, but having someone chill like Max and reasonable breaking it down without the shipping nonsense (calm down I like shipping, but it's not the importance of FF7) makes everything so much more bearable and even exciting. Looking forward to part 3 way more now!
I find it difficult to believe that after setting up the concept of multiple realities where different characters survive, and where they exist in a real capacity, and are able to cross over to and affect other realities, AND Sephiroth's whole deal being reuniting the worlds, as well as the fact that Seph seems to open a portal in the sky prior to the party approaching the altar, that they would suddenly say "oh no Aerith being saved was all Clouds imagination" instead of a confluence of realities that Sephiroth perhaps influenced. But who knows. If it is all a hallucination, imagine the impact of adding that scene to Cloud's Mideel lifestream sequence, where in addition to learning the reality of his past, he learns of the reality of that moment. Heartbreaking
That's what I'm afraid will happen. All of these fate ghosts, multiple timelines will amount to not mattering at the end of part 3. If that's the case... then why? Was it worth butchering a beloved story just to subvert expectations? I don't think so.
25:07 what if the big action packed opening for part 3 is actually from Sephiroth’s POV in advent children, showing him being bested by Cloud and his Fusion Sword, then showing Sephiroth traveling back in time to create Remake? I know it’s far fetched but still
I keep still thinking we're not even fighting the real Sephiroth. Just Jenova using him as a Vessel and in thos game they allude to Jenova using this to turn ppl against those they knew and loved. With this whole reunion I feel its Jenova trying to collect all her essence to regain full power and why wouldn't she use the strongest person on the planet to do so. IE Sephiroth. That's how he keeps coming back.
My take on the end is Cloud does repress it, but there is a split in timeline where she does and doesnt die. The reason the rest of the party cant see it is because they were all outside the Whisper Wall until that moment happened, at which point the whispers stopped holding them back. Tifa probably gets flashes of it due to the lifestream visit. I think Sephiroth is too distracted messing with Cloud to realize that she lived in a meaningful way, up until she appears for the final fight where he says he underestimated her. Im also guessing the "rainbows" are sometomes used to show the barrier between worlds. Often Cloud is seen on one side separate from his party, and only sees Aerith on the side the party isn't on. The Sky Rift is maybe indicative of a world fractured from the main timeline. Biggs reactor had no Mako, possibly due to being a splintered timeline and not directly linked to the planets lifestream. They also have no sense of time in the other worlds, making them seem sort of "incomplete" as worlds.
There is already an illusion of seamless traveling in rebirth via docking to black screen when using tiny bronco. The ocean floor we traverse is another large zone. They can just easily add a sky zone and an underwater (submarine) zone in part3. And I will not be mad even if it's not seamless. Of course you need to land the Highwind, that's a queue like the docking of tiny bronco. Also, I think the crack in the skies that signifies the end of the world is like an omen that the realities/timelines are merging.
My theory about the Aerith thing is that it’s not cloud hallucinating. Instead, when he “saved” aerith, he created a timeline where she lives even though sephiroth killing her is supposed to be a consistent event across timelines. So now there is at least 1 timeline where she is alive and we see scenes from this timeline (her talking to cloud while on the ground). Now our cloud is experiencing both timelines simultaneously. He is both living in the world where she is alive (this is the world we see when he looks up at the end and there is a crack in the sky) and in the main timeline (everyone sees the normal sky and aerith isn’t there). Kind of like omni aerith and sephiroth but cloud is experiencing it to a degree.
Also, remember in the scene where Sephiroth takes him into the space between worlds, he says he is giving Cloud his blessing. Sephiroth can transcend worlds and exist in multiple places at the same time. Cloud is seeing both of these worlds, and his mind is choosing only to accept the world where Aerith lived even though it's an ephemeral world with a skyrift.
Why is everyone forgetting Aerith petted Red 13 in the last scene and he recognized her presence? She’s obviously there in spirit and not just in Cloud’s head. Unless Red is also crazy (he and Cloud have similar traumas).
Aerith looking like she’s standing there in person is the part in Cloud’s head but she’s a Lifestream spirit now which is why Red felt her presence. So it’s like this mixture of delusion and reality that Cloud is living in.
Because Red has always been superstitious due to his upbringing and there's also the whole Gi tribe that associated with his race. I'm sure Marlene would be the same too given the fact that she can sense Aerith's presence in the lifestream at the end of OG as well as in Advent Children.
The silent Aerith that red feels definitely seems to be the dead Aerith from the lifestream thus Red can feel her presence yet not see her. The Aerith cloud talks to however I don't believe to be the same one.
@cicopath The way I understand it is that Cloud now has some perception of the "fate" dimension that Sephiroth and Aerith are navigating through, via the lifestream. But cloud's perception is corrupted so many ways, that he's completely incapable of making sense of it. I think Cloud and Red both sense Aerith's spirit presence, but Cloud deludes himself into believing she's alive. The rainbow effect represents worlds diverging / converging. Any time fate is defied and a new world is created, that effect shows up. I think in cloud's reality he does stop masamune, and defies fate. At this point Cloud, Sephiroth and Aerith can all traverse fate, but cloud doesn't know how to "drive", so Sephiroth just insists they exist in the one where cloud fails. Cloud can't fathom this, so he just goes on believing whatever he likes.
I think they did a good job on how they dealt with the aerith death scene as someone who has lost both their parents I unfortunately didn't get to say goodbye to either of them just got a call that they passed and I went to go see them and I can say i felt empty and a bit in denial that they were gone. You literally go through all the stages of grief whether you realize it or not and i feel a lot of people are doing that now with the aerith scene they literally created a moment of REAL loss and I think a lot of people are not seeing the full picture of that scene
Aerith walks different during the last cutscene... in the final Sephiroth boss fight they clearly show how she walks. With her feet inward. In the last cutscene her face looks dead, she walks with her feet outward ( they zoom into it ) and she has red glints in her eyes. Thats Jenova.. SE has been EXTREMELY careful and consistent with character body language and they have very specific shots they show us. Im creeped out.
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive." Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial." Trolls when Zack survives yet again: "..." Begone, nonbeliever.
After the trilogy they could make a whole new remake of ff7 in a whole different way and we would buy it. Many wants a more simple classic turn based ff7 with better graphics.
Hey Max, I don’t really post much but been a huge final fantasy fan, part 7 was actually the first game I ever played back when I was a kid. I loved rebirth so much and your content is amazing to watch! So thank you for that! ❤️ loved hearing every review, theory and your playthrough! Can’t wait for part 3!
just finished it - first - Damn them. I had such a big smile on my face when I thought I was going to change things only to have it taken away. Secondly - Cetra are putting me in mind of the denizens of FFX.
I think connecting to Advent Children is something they would have been thinking about from the beginning, since they've been adding all the compilation stuff at every chance they get. My guess is making the connection to FFX official. Fan theories about FFX and FFVII being connected have been around for a while, making it official would make fans happy.
@@BigBootyBatman So far that is all this weird take to the journey has added. A playable Zack with a last boss tutorial fight lol. I expect him to be slightly more involved next game because otherwise, what is the point if this is going to end similar to OG?
It doesn't have to end differently than the OG did for it to matter imo. I think a lot of it is going to be more of a spiritual message at the end. If it's used to empower and introduce new character dynamics to certain moments from the OG (like what they are presumably using the ending of this game for with Cloud's character climax in the next game) then it is worth it for me. If you're expecting it to go off in a wildly different direction or end at a completely different point then you will be disappointed. They have said numerous times over the years and even before Remake released that the project as a whole was still going to follow the 'axis' of the OG game and cover all of the same moments. It could end differently but if it does I expect it to be in an ambigious way like the OG ending.
Max, in cosmo canyon there is a group of villagers singing ff7 AC promised land song live on repeat I watch your whole playthrough and I didn't see you find them but it's clear advent children is huge part of ff7 storyline
@@TheOneGreat that misses the point so completely. it has nothing to do with "forcing a happy ending". it's about what *that* story is, what *those* characters are going through.
26:57 You're talking about like, we already have that, as though when this happens in Rebirth as one of Sephiroth's combat moves, it's a reference to Advent Children. Well maybe, but that's hard to say, because even when they do that in Advent Children, it's a replay of their fight in the Nibelheim reactor five years prior to the OG7 events. That was the signature moment where Sephiroth skewered Cloud and held him aloft, and Cloud plunged himself down to flip it around and throw Sephiroth over the edge, the moment when he killed Sephiroth. So is it a nod to advent children? Who can say, because that bit in AC is itself a nod to the OG7 history.
I just now finished and your dead on about seperation anxiety lmao but we now have part 3 to look forward to. Thank you max. That was like 2 months of straight magic. ❤
the break in the sky means for me that two universes have collapse, in the case of zack the main one and the one where he lives have united, however in the final scene only cloud can see the crack, because he has united the main universe and the one where Aerith is alive
I think Lifestream Aerith has officially revealed herself, and this is who we see at the end. She purposefully doesn't show herself to the other party members because that would cause another break in fate/the timelines. Aerith knows that Cloud will continue to struggle with Sephiroth. I think she's gonna be an inner voice for Cloud similar to how Sephiroth is, effectively giving Cloud two opposing voices in his head to deal with. When Cloud falls into the lifestream, I have a feeling Aerith is likely gonna make a comeback to help Cloud recover his memories. Tifa already fell into the lifestream so I doubt they're gonna have her do it again. Aerith is obviously the only one who can stop meteor, but I think they've expanded her importance in that she will be the key to Cloud figuring out who he really is. She mentions this during the final fight with Sephiroth, which feels like a foreshadowing of her role in the next game. This is likely gonna involve Cloud reliving his painful memories with Zack (the REAL memories) which is gonna be hard to watch. Aerith is neither dead, nor alive. She is merely strategizing and navigating the worlds/lifestream to stay a step ahead of Sephiroth. Cloud will not mourn. He can't. Because to him, Aerith is not dead. And it is that combination of delusion and hope that will eventually lead him to lose his mind.
Aerith literally CAN'T be a hallucination at the end. That is logically impossible. Because she continues to be there even after Cloud is not involved at the end when she says goodbye when no one is observing her. Something can't be a hallucination if it continues to manifest separate from the person hallucinating it. She continues to retain her conciousness and self after death just like she did in the original game. That is by far, objectively, the most correct conclusion.
I am glad someone else is bringing this up. The final scene of the game is from her perspective. She is watching them leave which isn't possible if she is just a hallucination of Cloud. She is at the very least there in spirit to say goodbye.
I'm really not on board with hallucination Aerith. The whole game deals with the multiverse idea, so from a narrators perspective it would make much more sense, that this Schrödingers Aerith thing ties into the grand theme of the story which has clearly been the multiverse thing. So I strongly believe, that she is alive in another world that Cloud gets a glimpse of. Plus: Nanakis reaction stronly speaks against the hallucination theory.
Your take on the Nomura quote at the end is an interesting one. I don't think it destroys the two universe theory - Nomura could be suggesting here that Cloud is simply repressing the death universe but embracing the living universe. Just a thought. I really don't think the multiverse thing is going to be tucked away neatly or is a way of amplifying the story. I just think it's par for the course in terms of modern day storytelling (which I hate, tbf). I think it will be resolved at the end (hopefully), but I still think it will be a key feature throughout 3.
I am excited for the next game. Three long years. They should get rid of the towers and Chadley and have NPCs to show quests and map locations. Showing the remaining quests and locations for each area should be unlocked for chapter select or new game + after beating the game.
I completely agree with what you're saying about Zack, it doesn't matter what world he's from and I have a truly crazy theory from it. I expect he's splintering timelines to do the Dr. Strange 1 in 1 million chance of defeating Sephiroth, and he's now found it. We saw potentially 7 Zacks, but there could and likely were so many more. It's also insanely worth noting we actually have a distinct Aerith as well now with the pin, so if we see that pin we can ???? as soon as it happens. My theory is that with this final game, they're going to give us multiple endings. I think they may continue with the party happiness system that was started here, and let it dictate some of the game's flow in the future. Cloud is almost smiling at the end, because he believes Aerith isn't dead and that is going to anger so many people in the party. I think the game is going to try and push you towards anger and hatred, and push you into Sephiroth's arms to whatever he's planning, but if you defy him and fill your hollow heart with love, care and reconciliation, you may fall into Aerith's hopes and dreams which'll push you down a path towards a new, much brighter future. And if you don't fall into either of their plans, you just loop over and over just like Zack did. It'd be absolutely crazy if they could pull something like that off, especially because it helps with the problem where players want it to follow OG FF7, but they also want to provide a small bit of hope where there was none. But until we know more of their plans, this is all just guesswork.
While I'm not going to watch this video, just wanted to thank you for making a non-spoiler and spoiler video with it listed in the title. As someone that has to wait for steam release it's hard to avoid FF7R info, I'm even still avoiding FF16 info.
Calling it: Each parts of the Buster Sword from Advent Children comes from a different "world". Cloud's limit break has him jumping from one piece to another, slashing and stacking them up together, ending with the fully assembled sword. Perfectly representing how Seph's getting deleted in every world iterations simultaniously - and Cloud's struggle comming full circle, picking up scraps of his broken psyche, in each worlds and builds himself anew.
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive." Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial." Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..." Cloud can watch her shower without repercussions. This is a defeat to you?
In the Remake soundtrack, we got a hint at the name of Part 2 with “One Winged Angel - Rebirth”. I’m wondering if we’re getting that with the song in Rebirth called “Revival of the Black Materia”. With Sephiroth’s real body being revived… Cloud undergoing somewhat of a revival…the series also undergoing a revival… I wouldn’t be mad if Part 3 was FF7: Revival.
The multi world-ness started from the very start of rebirth. There was there from the beginning. T-stamp was shown first. We saw the clear Stamp poster after the panout but that new report went Reporter nearly getting hit then badmouthing Wuiti and Avalanche and clearly wrapping up for the day turning it off. Then when we see the newscast after the fade to black and Zack approaching the TV in sector 4. He is nearly hit by truck, mentioned the disaster but doesn't get to blaming Avalanche before he starts going oh and look over here they are puling people from the wreckage with no cut out and wrap up. Plus the Church is blown up when he goes to find Biggs in t-stamp timeline. Plus Intergrade has him having found a place for Cloud and going to the Church first and not finding Aerith which is another one as well.
Okay now I am more confused because I swear I've seen different version of these exact Twitter pksts with more context to certain parts. For example, I've seen other versions of the last post he looked at with Nomura were it doesn't say that but instead says: "Nomura mentions that many wanted to see Aerith avoid that fate on the OG for FF7 Rebirth, and that's why the team delievered, having Cloud successfully deflect Spehiorth. There is a question that then asks why everytime Cloud gets a headache with noise, he sees random flashbacks" It then states the part about Cloud's mind rejecting in all the headaches. This translation seems to seperate the headache question and the Aerith death scene question, which seems to line up with the rest of the Ultimania and interviews where they seemed commited to making the death ambiguous for the sake of Part 3. The fact that even Ultimania can't seem to make up its damn mind about where the story is going and what is going on is not making me confident for the writting of the 3rd game. Though I am confident Aerith will return and be playable, not because of timeline stuff or lifestream stuff. No, I am confident because with how filled to the brime with fanservice these games are, there is no way in hell they wouldn't put Princess Guard, the Umbrella, or Great Gospel in this game unless they are going to be in Part 3, in which then Aerith would need to be playable enough to warrent having several weapons. Especially since Princess Guard was found in the Temple of the Ancients.
God I love this! Am I the only one thinking it’s not just Omni Aerith, but also Omni Seph? Like we are sometimes talking to a “grunt” seph, and at the end we’re talking to Omni Seph, with him finally coming face to face with Omni Aerith. Which would make sense that they are both lifestreamed. It feels like he is tipping the hat to her like a chess player finally meeting in person, after playing online forever. Either way; I love it.
*_Yes. I would call Sephiroth “ultimate bad” and Aerith “ultimate good”. They are both by far the strongest and most powerful characters in the story. I also agree with the chess match analogy; they are both operating on a level that is almost incomprehensible to the rest of the characters. There’s a massive holy war going on, and Sephiroth and Aerith are the ones truly fighting it._*
Nothing really new about it. Not so different than in the OG as Sephiroth died first so he became a traveller on the lifestream then when Aerith died, she managed to become one as well. Hence, Lifestream: Black/White being the title for their stories in On the Way to a Smile novel.
Sephiroth explicitly made it a point to keep Cloud and Zack in different worlds. Why would he send Zack somewhere else just to let him join Cloud again? That logic doesn't hold up for me. If he does end up being in the "normal" timeline now there is going to need to be a very explicit explanation as to how in order for it to make any kind of sense.
@@kingofbudokaiafter Sephiroth started to get the business from Zack and Cloud he was like "hell nah can't get smoked by these to 2 MFs gotta separate they ass"
Love this video, one of my favorites youve ever made. It cleared up a few of the questions i had, because of what the developers confirmed. It also led me to other questions, the same you have. Really excited to play part 3!
The final battle of Remake was basically Advent Children, and the final battle of Rebirth is basically the final battle of the OG, makes me incredibly interested how they are going to one-up them both.
I think the Cloud thing in the end comes to make a bigger impact when Tifa helps him remember and fix his mind. Now she has been in the lifestream and makes sense she knows how to traverse it to help Cloud remember Aerith died and that he has Zack's memories. There we will see the scene with him laying Aerith in the water.
We were deprived of our goodbye... in this game. That's the curveball, we were all prepared to bawl our eyes out. Cloud getting his memory back in part 3 will be absolutely devastating as we finally get our goodbye.
I think that would be boring. Now what would be an even better goodbye is if Cloud saved Aerith...but only for that parallel world, so even though he won he still has to say goodbye regardless.
When you mentioned that sephiroth has no concept of time wild theory that the final fights of remake and rebirth are the same fight (from sephiroths point of view) and the 3rd games final fight will bring all the fights into one point bringing all the worlds back together or reunited. (Not reunion, but a possible name with Zach wondering in worlds can unite again)
I have NO doubt in my mind that FFVII part 3 is going to release on the 30th anniversary of the original FF7’s release. So give or take it’s coming out January/February 2027
FFVII Rebirth was a life changing experience, ion even know why. I beat the story then felt awful, the post-game depression hit me so hard, I was so absorbed by the game that my life seemed meaningless to me, like fr I felt like I was about to start crying every time I was even thinking about the game. I started my grind for the platinum to feel better, platinumed it a couple weeks ago and I feel a little better but man… this game really changed my life and I’m only 17, no other game made me feel like this. The first time I beat the main story I literally felt the same thing you feel when you broke up with someone you love. It’s crazy. to me this the Best game ever
Discourse surrounding FF7 has been absolutely insufferable as of late since the Ultimania dropped; mainly because so many people are so insistent that the Ultimania is confirming/disproving theories... when it's literally doing the opposite. All it's doing is reaffirming our suspicions we initially had... while not actually confirming anything. FOR GOOD REASON. Why would the writers intentionally spoil their upcoming mystery filled semi-sequel through a book? It makes no sense, yet people keep citing it's existence like it's the holy spoiler bible. Media literacy is truly dying...
regarding game development you are 100 % correct.... . i myself m a senior 3d artist in my company. n i know the feel when we maintain the same team on a particular project again n again in comparison to bringing new people in the project. the time difference is huge when the same people do the repeated stuff compared to new people who still have to figure out the problems while working on the project.... that's why we start giving the new people smaller stuff of the project and let them get experienced to a point where they can work at the same level of perfection on the main stuff...
Schrodinger's Flower Girl is gonna drive discourse for MONTHS.
Is she alive? Is she dead? We don’t know? We saw her alive but we saw her dead too. Maybe if we put a flower in a box, maybe everything will solve itself....right?
@@flameroad123 It kind of already is confirmed. Max didn't cover it but there's an interview with Nojima in the new ultimania where he says that he knows fans wanted Aerith to live, but the main story will still follow the original.
Schrodinger aerith. If shes alive then she's also dead and if shes dead then shes alive 😂
Aerith by definition is alive. Not to mention there are a few of them. Aerith persists in the lifestream and through several other Aeriths lol
Was it really worth ruining such an important moment of the story for this, thought?
I want them to introduce a Sephiroth from a timeline where he went to therapy instead, and he's just a really cool dude.
Legitimately depressed after finishing Rebirth. I am in the 8th alternate universe, right now.
By the Gospel of Doom...
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive."
Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial."
Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..."
Look at those daisies in Aerith's inn rooms, next to her Reunion flowers in the ending. Look at those portraits of rabbits and TELL ME DOOMGUY HIMSELF DIDN'T SAVE AERITH. This is a game which has hippies who admit they don't know everything. If METAL isn't in you, then you cannot comprehend these greater things.
@@Drw-id-Kirinuh….
@@Drw-id-Kirin this is one of the funniest things I've ever read
I felt it when he said it absorbed my whole ass life. There were times I felt like I was Cloud. We are all just puppets
@@brandonbulthuis2740
3/3/2020 - FF7 Remake original release date
3/20/2020 - Doom Eternal release date
Aerith held her hands like RIP AND TEAR when she said "rip em off" to Corneo.
Evenly spaced RED RUNES in the black materia chamber. Cloud puts that materia in his GIANT SWORD.
RED RUNES. GIANT SWORD. CRUCIBLE.
The streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers!
The separation anxiety was real man, I feel you. There was a good week where I just could not figure out what to play after finishing Rebirth, even though I had stuff lined up that I wanted to start or go back to. My brain couldn't move on though. Definitely similar to Elden Ring in that way, as you said.
I'm there rn. I wish I would have waited another 4 years to play rebirth until part 3 was right around the corner
I definitely think that Cloud isn't just seeing hallucinations of Sephiroth, Aerith, and the sky tear, I think he can somehow see into other realities (maybe in a similar way to how Sephiroth can seemingly move between them). That's the significance of the scene where Cloud is talking to Aerith at the end, and tells everyone not to look up at the sky. He can see into another world where Aerith lived (a reality that is collapsing like the other branched realities), but no one else can see that. And we know he can interact with things in those other worlds, swapping around the White/Clear materia, doing Synchronization attacks with Zack, etc.
I will say It is true that cloud can sometimes see things no one else can see, It happens throughout the game with Sephiroth.
It is definitely possible he’s literally seeing this other reality but at the end of the day it’s probably still sephy fucking with him in a roundabout way
I think Sephiroth forged the ultimate black materia by harvesting the despair of multiple dying timeliness, that's why it showed up in Clouds pocket at the end, and the transparent materia will work as a vessel for a new white materia when Cloud regains his consciousness, that's why Aerith always says "take care of yourself". And the alternate dying scene was a plan by Aerith to cripple the ultimate black materia, now it's flawed, as flawed as my theory. Thanks for attending my TED talk.
Edit: just wanted to note, that's why they included and added the Lore of the Gi, to show the mechanics of the black materia or materia forging.
Why do they need another white materia when they already have one? I think the empty materia will somehow be needed for the Gi quest.
@@M0rD0l because the white materia they already have casts Holy, while they might be attempting to forge something else. The black materia Sephiroth has crafter after Aerith's death we assume it's the black materia that casts meteor, but in "my theory" I think it's meant to do something else entirely.
Also, Sephiroth knows that this new materia might be flawed, because not all the pain and sorrow could be harvested, and he realizes this on the last fight against Cloud and Aerith and that's why he was so upset, but when he leaves he might have seen another path to achieve a somewhat similar result, by also trying to flaw this potential new white materia, by forcing Cloud see images of a fake Aerith that forces him to take bad decisions and focus on revenge against Sephiroth, as you know, Cloud promised "Aerith" to face Sephiroth ;)
@@TotallyNotSeba I definitely agree with the new Black Materia being flawed, since I really like the idea that Sephiroth, in his attempts to make Cloud feel sorrow after Aerith's dead, never actually realized how broken Cloud truly is. Cloud is so broken that he doesn't even register that Aerith died, so he unintentionally counters Sephiroth's attempts to make an ultimate black materia by being completely broken at that point, which just seems super badass.
And in doing so, Sephiroth might potentially ruin his own plans, just like how he screwed up in the OG by killing Aerith. All of it coming full circle.
The reason why cloud has the black materia in the end is because in part 3 just like the original game he GIVES IT TO SEPH who then summons METEOR seph controls cloud one final time and takes him to the northern cave where the real seph is at who’s body is preserved by the lifestream
Cloud infused the black materia into his own buster sword , I'm sensing an evil cloud timeline
The idea of Zack's choices creating more timelines is super interesting, and I look forward to seeing what role he will play in part 3 as this "anomaly" or "variant." He's basically... at the core of this crisis.
...I'll see myself out.
We can say that Zack is the Crisis Core: Reunion ™ now.
We'll see in part 3 if this conflict can be resolved.
@@saltyazteca5989and how often his combat mode activates!
@@Lunaria.Praesentia Oh yeah!
Oh my god all of you need to see yourselves out LMAO
Johnny is holding a Stamp plushie variant when Zack sitting outside at the church
Bro! You’re right! You answered that question for me.
He is! But we don't know if that one counts as the church that Zack appears in at in the end. That one is still up in the air I think.
@@drboneheadyup thats why you cant spot any stamp. Its deliberately to make speculation
I feel like the devs throwing so many Stamps at the end was them just saying it doesn't actually matter
@@Dimchek970none of these plot ghosts/multiverse mattering by the end of part 3 will be maddening.
I agree with you on Vincent. Some of the moments I laughed more were Vincent's moments, for example when he says "cozy design" in the Haunted Hotel hahaha
One of the things I adore about how they decided to depict Sephiroth in this new project is that... OG Sephiroth was this menacing threat, and yes, there was a mystery to him, and he didn't show up often. Lots of people argue this, and even though I understand their point of view, I think that this new take brings a new perspective, as in: if newcomers just get to know Sephiroth by playing Remake for the first time, they see this complete maniac that keeps harassing Cloud all the time, an interdimensional being that can literally stop time like he did in the beginning of Remake when he touches Aerith's shoulder, manipulate visions, and has the capacity of literally interfere with fate, control arbiters, change events, etc, and THEN... we see him as a seemingly regular first class SOLDIER in Rebirth's Nibelheim flashback. So new players could start pondering like... "How did this 'regular' guy, a strong SOLDIER, but still, become that being with such a boundless power?" That's why this new appeal is so interesting to me. Is a new form of mystery done correctly, in my opinion, to a character that is more powerful and intriguing than he ever was.
What I really love about Rebirth is how the "hero" Sephiroth was depicted vastly different with the "villain" Sephiroth in terms of disposition. While I love the OG, I feel that it really didn't completely depict how chill and calm of a dude the hero Sephiroth is. Like even Crisis Core didn't depict this much.
The only threat this new Sephiroth seems to bring is the very real danger of using the wrong pronouns.
Hell yeah, just like going from the OG to Crisis Core!
Crazy how you wrote one sentence
I think both the OG and Crisis Core showed us a sympathetic side of Sephiroth. The way he respected Ghast and chided Hojo showed us at once a good judge of character as well as laudable values to base that judgement on.
The way he lamented his own past softly, thinking about not having a hometown... the obvious pain he felt when he realized his mother's name was nothing more than an experiment.
In the OG, you even got to go through phases of misunderstanding with Sephiroth, where he thought he was an ancient, and where, seemingly all along, he believed he was created and never learned about his true mother, Lucrecia. The fact that he never knew is another point of sympathy towards him, because it was this sort of redeeming fact, the silver lining on the clouds, and he never got to know about it, but the player did.
In the new telling, he has such broad awareness of everything right down to the mechanics of time and space and the nature of reality itself, that it's hard to believe he doesn't know who his real mother was, or that she lives in eternal atonement for not getting to hold him as a baby and save him from his fate, that she loved him and wanted him. It's hard to think that this practically omniscient Sephiroth doesn't know, and it makes him actually a little less sympathetic than the OG representation imo.
What's more, I think in the new telling they're trying to show us a parallel between him and Cloud. Cloud, from the OG you may recall, didn't hang out with the usual crowd that played with Tifa; he thought they were stupid, he thought he was special and better than them. Later, with the memory, physique and abilities of a SOLDIER: First Class, he's confronted with inconsistencies in his origin that are hard to answer for, and seemingly the truth is that he was created as a clone-puppet of Sephiroth; that he has a monstrous origin and isn't even a real person.
Thus Sephiroth tells him to burn his world to the ground, "Just as I did;" for this is all very much like Sephiroth's story, knowing that he was special only to find horror in his origin, lose his shit, and exact bottomless vengeance on the world and everything in it, in retaliation.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Aerith being dead dead.
They seem to be paralleling what happened with Nibelheim. In the OG when Sephiroth tells cloud he wasn't at Nibelheim in the northern crater and Tifa confirms it completely shatters him because he knows he was there even though it wasn't as he told it. Him thinking he completely forgot the facts of losing his mom and hometown shattered him since he already knew something was wrong with him.. This could mirror that. Cloud "saves" her but sephiroth uses his power to merge in the world where she died. Everyone else sees her dead but cloud believes she is alive. Sephiroth will tell him he didn't save Aerith, Tifa will confirm it and it will shatter him. The truth will be that he saved her just not in the way people expected.
I like this theory
There's that scene when cait sits reads your fortune and it's something like expectations creating disappointment, followed by something ending in a last minute twist.
It foreshadowed the ending all along
I strongly dislike this theory for a lot of reasons, but two big ones stick out:
First, the time between Aerith's death and Sephiroth's mind breaking gaslight is too short, presuming it will happen around the same time it does in the OG (which it basically has to for scenario reasons). Sephiroth's taunting Cloud into believing he's a clone works because it shakes Cloud's entire being; it throws who he's been from minute one of the game (and since the day he was born) into question. To shift the primary mind breaking to Aerith's being dead would be a massive lowering of stakes, referring to an event that happened a few in-game days ago at best.
Second, the "You are not Cloud Strife" gaslight of the original vitally contributes to Cloud's arc, the mystery and intrigue that surrounds nibelheim, and the game's core theme of identity (coming to terms with oneself and ones failures). I get that this core of FFVII has been undermined by Remake for the sake of subversion and newness, but shifting the primary reason for Cloud's mind break away from his identity crisis isn't it.
I feel like fans get so caught up theorycrafting about the mind bending alternate world shenanigans that they forget the thematic core that made the original good.
Something has to get Cloud off the crazy "reunion" train. Holy was late because Cloud gives sephiroth the black materia Cloud keeps it no meteor
@@beng9868 vincent say the same thing at temple entrance. Expectations often leads to dissapoontments
I'm still waiting for that "Max reacts to FF7 Rebirth music" compilation. I expect a solid 10 hours of music reactions. 🤣
It's up on twitch on one of his vods, big highlight was the Gus theme haha
Probably can't upload because square might strike we'll see tho
@@Swerg20 Oh, not that. I watched most of that stream live. I want a complication of Max reacting to the music during his playthrough of the game. Someone mentioned it during a live stream a while back and I think it's a great idea.
The song for the dog quest was hot 🔥
@@Swerg20 Loved it when Max discovered what it's like to listen thru headphones 😂
Square Enix is making those old-school "Aerith Lives" rumors canon. Which one? ALL OF THEM! Even the debug menu... especially the debug menu.
I played the og in 97 when i was 13 and im 39 now. This game was my teen years and what they have done with it is so fucking cool. I cant waitnfor part 3 cloud is seriously fucked in this one man and the pay off when we get aeriths funeral scene and cloud finding himself will be sensational. Bravo square i simply fucking love this.
Man, I relate so hard to what you said about feeling like you have to remind yourself your life exists outside the game and also to the fact that the last time you felt that was with Elden Ring.
I feel exactly the same; most games I can just pickup for a bit and move on once finishing them but Elden Ring and this game totally consumed me and I feel like I don’t know what to do with myself after rolling credits today…which is precisely why I came to this video 😂.
I'm the same man, I. just finished game recently and feels strange. No game has ever made me feel like this. I need to get back to the reality
Been playing ff7 since I was 12. Blew my mind when it came out. My favorite game and I have beaten it over 10 times. So fun to hear different theories from a fellow fan.
I've also played the original way over 10 times. Every time there was a rumor that you could find a way to save Aerith. Those of you who want her to die, just play the original. I want her to survive. After making it so that remake was about fighting destiny it would suck if they went back on it and did let it play out the same. I finally want that happy ending.
I guess the best would be if they gave the game multiple endings, the ones who want Aerith to stay dead get to play their route and those who want to change fate and get her back can take that route.
Who the f wants her to die?@@maythesciencebewithyou
@@joellarsson9486 All the nostalgic fans who don't want anything about the story and gameplay to change. There are some die hard fans of the original who totally hate the new games.
@@maythesciencebewithyou yeah I guess you are right. After the trilogy they could make a whole different remake of the same game in different way and we would buy it. Many wants a classic turn based ff7 with just better graphics. But I guess there are mods for that.
Totally agree. Crossing my fingers for a happy ending 🤞@@maythesciencebewithyou
The more I think about and rewatch the ending, the more I like it.
Agree. The emotional part of her death is the date scene where she hugs cloud and tells him not to blame himself and pushs him into the portal 😢
1000%
@@maillardsbearcat That's where my head is at. I'll reserve my judgement until I see if they can stick the landing or not. I don't hate the ending, but I also don't love it. I'm okay with it and I'm interested to see where they are going with it, but it's up to them to follow through and close this story in a satisfying way.
@@maillardsbearcat. Same here. So far I didn't like the ending too much, but I am open to being convinced of the opposite with part 3.
Same
Not sure if someone else mentioned it, but Back to the Future II and III actually were shot consecutively. Hence Part II has tons of callforwards to Part III and there was even a mini-trailer for III that showed at the end of II.
That's why the 2nd Back to the Future was always my favorite. I loved all the references to the first and the third movies.
One thing about Tifa’s flashes that I thought about after reading the Ultimania tweets was that they were trying to hint at Cloud’s inability to cope with Aerith’s death and the denial of it.
What I think happens with Tifa is that, when she first comes across the scene, her mind ALSO tries to repress or deny what she is seeing, but she ultimately accepts reality.
So I think it’s her mind flashing back and forth between, “No way… is she…? no, she can’t be… oh god, she’s…”
And that’s used to hint at what is happening with Cloud.
Tifa’s flashes. Thought you meant something else…
Red xiii feels her when she puts her hand on his shoulder...
@@GameshinbunTVbecause her and red are connected, Hojo locked both of them up in the past. Red talked to Aerith about losing their memories from the whispers, and she is also the first one to bring out his child voice.
Red and Aerirh are connected,
@@GameshinbunTV we know Red can be deceived in this specific way. Besides, the real Aerith was communicating via flower
If we are to assume that's directly her perspective of seeing two different things and not a she sees her bloody body and Cloud's reality is that she's alive and there's no blood then sure though then each party member would feel the same and they show their face as well with similar reaction
Honestly im just scared that it all leads to nothing - after the first part i was super excited to see what they are going to do - then while playing the second one i was - ah ok they decided to stick to the original and just "remake" it... fine, but then change it all up right at the end without really changing it up - so right now im just scared that they just did it for the cliffhanger effect and the game will just play out normal with a little fluff at the side - which would be fine if they did it right from the start but would be super depressing for ME after the endings of part 1 and 2
Agreed. If they've set up all of this crazy stuff over two games, and it turns out essentially pointless and just a full-on troll for intrigue and sales, ima be pissed. I bought a PS5 just for Rebirth (it's all I'll use it for), but if they're pulling some pure marketing psych crap here with no payoff, and we end up in the same lore position with the utter crap that is advent children, SE can honestly F-O.
This is where it’s leaning towards. The devs have already said it’s going to remain faithful… so yes we’re getting all this convolution for nothing.
@@raven-19x Maybe yeh. But I just think that's lame. Advent Childen isn't very good in lore terms. They could do way better.
There are two camps I think,
Absolute purists who want to modern presentation of the same game or
Those who want that but are open to change and want things to be different this time
I’m firmly in the second camp. Time is looping and Sephiroth is trying to get his wishes by killing Clouds support network (attempting to kill Barrett and Tifa both) and constraining Aerith to a different reality
We know this is happening because we know Red XIII and Aerith could see the future ( Red shared this in the date scene in Gold Saucer).
If Aerith also knows and retains her memory, things can be different this time!
Yup all that plus no ultima weapons , no knights of the round, no fighting ruby or ultimate weapons , all the things that made ff7 special probably won't be in part 3
None of the whole with Cloud 'rejecting' Aerith's death fits well with the part where Red XIII senses Aerith's presence. I think they are doing something elaborate and weird and it's not just "Cloud is nuts".
Could be a “red” herring. I’ll see myself out.
I think it's both. Her spirit is lingering, but also he's CLEARLY in denial. Every time he tries to remember about her death, he literally gets a migraine.
I do think Aerith's presence was there but Cloud clearly does not have a good mental state.
@@dolurosu Cloud rejecting her death is a lot easier if he's also able to see/interact with a parallel world where she actually is totally fine. It would even still facilitate a little "Cloud is nuts" thing because his rejection of reality isn't just in his head now, he's literally not able to seperate what realities he's seeing because they both simultaneously actually exist.
Because Cloud seeing Aerith is not a hallucination. It's like a ghost of sorts, like when he sees her in Advent Children, or when she appears at the end of OG FF7.
But Cloud doesn't realize she is a ghost, he believes she is still there with them alive.
A rainbow can be created by splitting a beam of light through a prism. I think the intention is that the rainbow just symbolizes the splitting of the timeline from a single by and action. This is made clear by Zack’s decisions creating different timelines.
Rainbows are traditionally split as ROYGBIV, which is also 7??
Very Lantern Corp
OWHH FCKK!!!
If the beginning of part 3 we're starting tutorial in Advent Children timeline. That's insane.
I got goosebumps thinking about it.
I swear to god if the fusion sword is a playable weapon and it functions like it does in the movie the other swords better be the bees knees cause if not I’m not using any other sword the whole game.
@@ToxicVex267 HELL YEAH BROTHER!
@@ToxicVex267: Highest likelihood that if it is in the game, it'll be the last obtainable one.
And here's a wild idea: Max has been suggesting that, assuming Knights of the Round is in Part 3, we would probably have to do some multi-part Protorelic-like quest to get it complete by the endgame. What if they did that, or something like it, with the Fusion Sword? Maybe each of the swords you collect throughout the game eventually combine to form it by the end, so it can also thematically fit with the idea that everything you've been through comes together to give you the strength to win?
(This is assuming it's intended to be cannon to the story to obtain, as opposed to an endgame/post game/hard mode only piece with some nearly game-breaking ability attached. Considering every weapon in these games comes with an ability attached, if it appears I'm doubting they would want it missable.)
Or they do something with Gilgamesh again, but this time you have to fight him multiple times for each piece (or pieces) of the sword? And after getting the final piece Gilgamesh once again recognizes you as an/The "Ultimate Swordsman"?
@@spoonimefan that would be cool like each knight you defeat gives you a part of the sword and it would be cool if they had their own play style like the twin parts have fast attacks but do little damage some thing like that.
@@ToxicVex267 : 🤔 Hadn't considered the *Knights* being the ones to grant the pieces, but that's not a bad idea either. And if I remember correctly, the animations for one or some of the Knights had them dual-wielding. Considering some of them appeared to use magic blasts too, and some weapons lean more toward magic than physical or balanced properties, that could work on multiple levels. Hmm ... 🤔
at around 7:44 max talks about it being a visual cue but cloud at one point at the end of date timeline, cloud asks what is this? so it can be inferred that the rainbow effect is just not a visual cue but actually occurs for cloud and co. as well.
In regards of the date, I believe the red 13 date is the most canon date because it gives context that red/aerith could see the future before that ability got taken away and red asks cloud to save aerith from something scary happening.
I like how Max has the Gongaga Theme in the background, its so good.
With regard to the various worlds of Zack, we should recall that there is perhaps another - the one we saw at the end of Intergrade, where Zack bursts through the doors of the Church to announce his return, only to be met with the sad crowd. That scene never happened in any of the worlds we visited so far with Zack (that we know of, anyway). It seems instead that he hobbled into town with Cloud, stowed him away with a stranger temporarily, and went on to more heroics, upon which he had already discovered Aerith, so popping through the church doors to attempt to greet her would be irrational.
So this scene is either effectively retconned (which has not been SE's style with FF7 thus far) or it's a hanging plot element that we still don't know where it belongs in the grand scheme of things.
Also, Zack from the church scene had a clean face, while the start of Rebirth shows him dirty. Idk tho, they might have just forgotten about it, or already made the scene and couldn't change it after.
its just another reality, there's countless, and it doesn't matter which or how many
the fact theres multiple is all that matters, every showing of one is just a reminder
@@allgaming9737 True, we've seen that the story writing for the next game isn't already in place at the conclusion of the current one, so maybe they just shrugged and figured it was easily written off as one of infinite worlds where things were very different from all the other ones we've seen.
I hope that the next game sees us with a single world, that Sephiroth's reunion/worlds merge thing was the end of that.
In a way it seems to lower the stakes and even sort of cheapen the story and characters when they're just one of an infinite number of versions of themselves. It's like oh, we lost this one, but there's an infinite number in the reserves. idk
zack bursting into the church door continues directly into the scene with zack sitting on the church steps and sephiroth walks past
@@Nolzhan why would he burst through the door looking for Aerith when he knew she was at her mom's house with Cloud? Also, when he enters the church, there we're a bunch of people crying inside, which contradicts Rebirth where it was only Cloud and Aerith right before Sephiroth came.
I felt it when you said it completely consumed your life. I would say March is a blur, but its all memories of this fantastic game.
literally same here
I've been waiting for this video since the easy allies spoilercast.
Thank you so much for your Love of this game, and well thought out perspective!
I'm good with a happy ending for these characters. The OG game was about loss, the remake doesn't need to be. The remake doesn't overwrite or replace the OG. It doesn't need to have the same themes. These characters deserve life, love, and happiness. If you get the Nanaki Skywheel date, he tells Cloud that he and Aerith knew the future, but don't any longer. Cloud tells him that there isn't much point in knowing fate if you can't do anything to change it. I echo that sentiment. There is no point to any of this if it all ends up in the same place anyway. Nobody needs to die. That was the old game. Give us a happy ending. Just my opinion.
I feel the same way man. If they’re talking about trying to change fate, give us that. And not the, “accept you fate and move on” type of story. If the characters knew their fates, ofc they would try to change it. By not letting that happen it would be the opposite of whatever message they’re trying to give
Same. Why not have a happy ending? I don’t get the argument against it. It’s just as valid as any other ending they could do, and would be satisfying unless you’re one of those people where happy endings make you unhappy for some reason.
Same. Give us a happy ending. The flower girl deserves it after 27 years of pain and loss. She’s already had the theme of loss. We have already experienced it. So did our characters. Time to heal. Let us and the characters be sent off happily. I’m not saying wedding bells , but everyone happy finally.
@@kelss.5098why do I feel that the idea of the planet as the spirit will stop like the ways the planet reincarnation ends. Or a huge change in how the planet exists going forward. Things the way we know them will end.
I feel you 110%. At least give Aerith and Zack a happy ending, even if they're not together. They deserved so much more.
@Maximillan Dood , The part about the sector 5 when people look up and see the rifts in the sky, I think that it is like the Doctor Strange moment in Spiderman of all the worlds come together and Aeirith is trying to close them possibly.
I’m surprised nobody brought this up anywhere yet but my interpretation of the ending scene was that Cloud DID create an alternate world where she lives but he’s stuck between them somehow in a limbo. I have a feeling we’ll see moments of Cloud seeing other things different than the party like a different stamp and Aerith will probably be able to help remotely through him as the connection point or something. Him being a link between worlds would make the Tifa moment where she rescues his mind very very interesting, probably bearing witness to more crazy shit.
It also lends credence to him becoming more like sephiroth, because sephiroth does the exact same thing by existing in multiple worlds at once
This has been my thoughts since beating the game.
Yeah I feel like the very ending scene in particular is very specifically constructed in a way to make us THINK that Cloud is completely crazy, but there's some inconsistencies in there that seem to indicate, at least to me, that not everything he's seeing is false. Like the most interesting way they could take it for me is to make the party, the player, and even Cloud himself think everything he's seeing is just a hallucination, just to reveal "NO WAIT THOSE PARTICULAR PARTS WERE ACTUALLY REAL THE WHOLE TIME"
I thought something similar to this. But my theory was that the REMAKE timeline IS the timeline where she was saved and the one where she did not get saved is the new timeline. I have a hunch that the REMAKE timeline is a timeline where they keep defying destiny without fail and it continues to make new timelines because of it.
I just hope she Will be playable like the others in some points, It will be the only way to get to play with all 9 main chararcters
Airship might work like Spider-Man 2 where it’s faster to get from place to place but when you land it’s larger
I don't think airship is even hard. You just use lower LoD versions of the map to cover the whole thing, and then it would take at least a few seconds to land and disembark, during which it can load in the higher detail version of the world. Nobody would notice, because there would be enough detail to sell the scene while flying, it would look natural.
@@timogulyup, could cut to in the cabin, providing a brief loading corridor for you to run out of and slide down a ladder or summit,. If even necessary at all.
@@Kean_Bean Yup, and the time it would take is a lot less than people would think, based on previous generations. Between SSD load times and Unreal 5 tech, this sort of LoD swapping is fairly minimal. It might even be possible to do in realtime, just loading in the detail right nearby first, then expanding outward from there. So long as you can't land literally on any location you want (limited to certain open fields or even radio towers), they can make sure the landing zones are not so content dense that you'd immediately notice anything happening.
The thing is, lucky for us, Cid Highwind “aint most pilots”.
@@timogulisn't the trilogy using unreal 4 though because the leads didn't want the team using up precious time learning a new engine?
There's a lot of big things that we're all anticipating how they'd go about doing things; things like the Highwind, the WEAPONs, Omnislash, Knights of the Round, etc.
I have waited SO LONG FOR THIS VIDEOOOOOOOO AAHHHH
So happy its finally here, I love theorizing about this game and talking/ listening to you Max and everyone else here
Max! Tell your friends at Square that they need to add SUPER DUNK at the Gold saucer in the form of NBA Hangtime. 2v2 Tifa slammin' hard on Cloud Let's gooooooo!
😄 Tifa Meteor Smash-ing the ball like an enemy in one of her old Limit Breaks. Or using Divekick, but the ref is too scared to foul her for using her feet!
I think a lot of the lifestream Aerith/Hallucination Aerith can be explained from the OG when Tifa and Cloud fall into the Lifestream in Mideel. Tifa sees and can actually interact with many different Clouds from many different times INCLUDING Zack.
It randomly occurs to me to check and see if Max has done any new FF content and here we go.
Can’t wait for part 3.
Still recovering from ff7 rebirth post game, post aerith depression
I was the dork taking the book from the CD to school and reading about it when the game first came out lol. Everything leading up to the ending (temple of the ancients onwards) definitely subverted my expectations. It is way different, but the same. I like what they are doing with the new story. One thing I want is the post credit scene from the original at the very least. I felt that scene really wraps up why they were doing this in the first place and it is that bitter sweet conclusion I thought the original had.
I want them to include it, but with a twist (like pretty much everything in regards to the lore of these games). Like, instead of a dying world, show one that is thriving, and full of life. Or something like that, idk
Watching this whilst hard mode last boss Sephiroth kicks my ass again.
Why is nobody talking about the fact that in Remake Part 1, when Cloud falls into the church, he is literally in this white void with yellow petals, just like Zack at the end of Rebirth where Zack touches Cloud? Additionally, in Part 1, Cloud meets another version of himself in that void who says, 'Made it through with just a couple of scraped knees back then.' This seems to imply that it might be a sequel of some sort, or that everything has already happened.
I mean it could be an allusion to the sequel idea but it most likely is referencing the time he and Tifa fell off of Mt. Nibel as kids.
I just took it as parts of Cloud just talking to each other as he's unconscious. Sephiroth is his trauma reminder so thats why he also pops in for that all white room scene.
The scraped knees line was in the OG, it’s a reference to him and Tifa falling off mount Nibel. Tifa was severely injured, Cloud just scraped his knees
That's just the real Cloud locked inside his mind talking to him, referring to the time he and Tifa fell off Mt. Nibel and he just scrapped his knees. The line was on the OG too.
55 minutes, right let me get settled. Imma be right back 🍿
Max mentions that the different timelines and all the multiverse stuf probably wont have a big effect in the story in part 3, but if thats the case then i find it harder to understand why the devs decided to introduce this element to the story, if they wanted to have cool boss fight at the end of part 1 and 2 i think there could have been easier ways to do that than trying to fit the original ff 7 story into the new muliverse storyline that they created. Reagardless if they stick the landing in part 3, I would be very happy if at one point in the story Cloud and the party change into their Advent Children outfits, maybe after Cloud recuperates from his fractured mind
They are saying the next game will be the best in the history of video games and I already feel that way about rebirth. It has everything you could ever want and anything you don’t really like you can skip but I love it all give it to me yessss
Ahhhhhhhh, another hour traveling through the lifestream!
Oh my God it's sephiroth with the huge ass meteor
Careful now. That which lies ahead, does not yet exist.
And it only took 7 seconds….
I hope it’s two hours lol
Sephiroth, yo moma is so ugly, everyone thinks she looks like an eldritch abomination from space!
Perfect timing, just finished the game last night at 120+ hrs.
I already have withdrawals lol
Hahahaha max i feel you on that one i literally took a week off work ready for rebirth and when it came round to playing i had to book another week off 🤣 thankfully i had a lot of holiday left and my boss was kind enough to oblige because maaaaan rebirth took over my life for those 2 weeks !! I lost so much sleep because i was genuinely hooked !! Such an amazing experience and I can’t wait to come back later and play again in the future now that i have the platinum i can just experience the story ❤ this game is the goat !! Love hearing you talk about this franchise man because you’re the only other person i’ve seen with the same level of passion i have for the game it’s awesome bro ❤
Okay I desperately needed this video because I finally got around to beating it yesterday and was semi lukewarm on the ending because it felt like Remake where I loved almost everything right up until the ending, but having someone chill like Max and reasonable breaking it down without the shipping nonsense (calm down I like shipping, but it's not the importance of FF7) makes everything so much more bearable and even exciting. Looking forward to part 3 way more now!
I find it difficult to believe that after setting up the concept of multiple realities where different characters survive, and where they exist in a real capacity, and are able to cross over to and affect other realities, AND Sephiroth's whole deal being reuniting the worlds, as well as the fact that Seph seems to open a portal in the sky prior to the party approaching the altar, that they would suddenly say "oh no Aerith being saved was all Clouds imagination" instead of a confluence of realities that Sephiroth perhaps influenced. But who knows. If it is all a hallucination, imagine the impact of adding that scene to Cloud's Mideel lifestream sequence, where in addition to learning the reality of his past, he learns of the reality of that moment. Heartbreaking
That's what I'm afraid will happen. All of these fate ghosts, multiple timelines will amount to not mattering at the end of part 3. If that's the case... then why? Was it worth butchering a beloved story just to subvert expectations? I don't think so.
@@raven-19xbutchering a beloved story? 🤨
25:07 what if the big action packed opening for part 3 is actually from Sephiroth’s POV in advent children, showing him being bested by Cloud and his Fusion Sword, then showing Sephiroth traveling back in time to create Remake? I know it’s far fetched but still
That would be so cool
They should do that
That would be interesting showing us what lead him to do all this and what his goal is and why is cloud so
Important to that goal.
If that happens, then that could be the link up to Advent Children that they promised we were leading up to.
I keep still thinking we're not even fighting the real Sephiroth. Just Jenova using him as a Vessel and in thos game they allude to Jenova using this to turn ppl against those they knew and loved. With this whole reunion I feel its Jenova trying to collect all her essence to regain full power and why wouldn't she use the strongest person on the planet to do so. IE Sephiroth. That's how he keeps coming back.
AND LO, HE BRINGTH DOWN THE THEORIES FROM ON HIGH!
My take on the end is Cloud does repress it, but there is a split in timeline where she does and doesnt die. The reason the rest of the party cant see it is because they were all outside the Whisper Wall until that moment happened, at which point the whispers stopped holding them back. Tifa probably gets flashes of it due to the lifestream visit.
I think Sephiroth is too distracted messing with Cloud to realize that she lived in a meaningful way, up until she appears for the final fight where he says he underestimated her.
Im also guessing the "rainbows" are sometomes used to show the barrier between worlds. Often Cloud is seen on one side separate from his party, and only sees Aerith on the side the party isn't on.
The Sky Rift is maybe indicative of a world fractured from the main timeline. Biggs reactor had no Mako, possibly due to being a splintered timeline and not directly linked to the planets lifestream. They also have no sense of time in the other worlds, making them seem sort of "incomplete" as worlds.
There is already an illusion of seamless traveling in rebirth via docking to black screen when using tiny bronco. The ocean floor we traverse is another large zone. They can just easily add a sky zone and an underwater (submarine) zone in part3. And I will not be mad even if it's not seamless. Of course you need to land the Highwind, that's a queue like the docking of tiny bronco.
Also, I think the crack in the skies that signifies the end of the world is like an omen that the realities/timelines are merging.
My theory about the Aerith thing is that it’s not cloud hallucinating. Instead, when he “saved” aerith, he created a timeline where she lives even though sephiroth killing her is supposed to be a consistent event across timelines. So now there is at least 1 timeline where she is alive and we see scenes from this timeline (her talking to cloud while on the ground).
Now our cloud is experiencing both timelines simultaneously. He is both living in the world where she is alive (this is the world we see when he looks up at the end and there is a crack in the sky) and in the main timeline (everyone sees the normal sky and aerith isn’t there). Kind of like omni aerith and sephiroth but cloud is experiencing it to a degree.
Also, remember in the scene where Sephiroth takes him into the space between worlds, he says he is giving Cloud his blessing. Sephiroth can transcend worlds and exist in multiple places at the same time. Cloud is seeing both of these worlds, and his mind is choosing only to accept the world where Aerith lived even though it's an ephemeral world with a skyrift.
Why is everyone forgetting Aerith petted Red 13 in the last scene and he recognized her presence? She’s obviously there in spirit and not just in Cloud’s head. Unless Red is also crazy (he and Cloud have similar traumas).
Aerith looking like she’s standing there in person is the part in Cloud’s head but she’s a Lifestream spirit now which is why Red felt her presence. So it’s like this mixture of delusion and reality that Cloud is living in.
Because Red has always been superstitious due to his upbringing and there's also the whole Gi tribe that associated with his race.
I'm sure Marlene would be the same too given the fact that she can sense Aerith's presence in the lifestream at the end of OG as well as in Advent Children.
The silent Aerith that red feels definitely seems to be the dead Aerith from the lifestream thus Red can feel her presence yet not see her.
The Aerith cloud talks to however I don't believe to be the same one.
Because these 'experts' are obsessed with OG to the point they are blind to key info in the actual game. Meta-tardation.
@cicopath The way I understand it is that Cloud now has some perception of the "fate" dimension that Sephiroth and Aerith are navigating through, via the lifestream. But cloud's perception is corrupted so many ways, that he's completely incapable of making sense of it. I think Cloud and Red both sense Aerith's spirit presence, but Cloud deludes himself into believing she's alive. The rainbow effect represents worlds diverging / converging. Any time fate is defied and a new world is created, that effect shows up.
I think in cloud's reality he does stop masamune, and defies fate. At this point Cloud, Sephiroth and Aerith can all traverse fate, but cloud doesn't know how to "drive", so Sephiroth just insists they exist in the one where cloud fails. Cloud can't fathom this, so he just goes on believing whatever he likes.
What they did with the ending will either be brilliant or the worst thing ever depending on what they do with fixing Cloud’s mind in 3.
Twin Peaks fans waited 25 years for their conclusion.
We'll be okay
Half life fans waited 13 years for advancing the story 20 seconds this is fine
I think they did a good job on how they dealt with the aerith death scene as someone who has lost both their parents I unfortunately didn't get to say goodbye to either of them just got a call that they passed and I went to go see them and I can say i felt empty and a bit in denial that they were gone. You literally go through all the stages of grief whether you realize it or not and i feel a lot of people are doing that now with the aerith scene they literally created a moment of REAL loss and I think a lot of people are not seeing the full picture of that scene
I'm sorry for your lost
Aerith walks different during the last cutscene... in the final Sephiroth boss fight they clearly show how she walks. With her feet inward. In the last cutscene her face looks dead, she walks with her feet outward ( they zoom into it ) and she has red glints in her eyes. Thats Jenova.. SE has been EXTREMELY careful and consistent with character body language and they have very specific shots they show us. Im creeped out.
The world of FF7 Continues to succ us back in. ONE MORE TIME! lol
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive."
Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial."
Trolls when Zack survives yet again: "..."
Begone, nonbeliever.
After the trilogy they could make a whole new remake of ff7 in a whole different way and we would buy it. Many wants a more simple classic turn based ff7 with better graphics.
@@joellarsson9486 yeah well many want sqaure to put a shine on a different FF game other than 7 for the 100th fucking time. Give us a remake of FF8
Hey Max, I don’t really post much but been a huge final fantasy fan, part 7 was actually the first game I ever played back when I was a kid. I loved rebirth so much and your content is amazing to watch! So thank you for that! ❤️ loved hearing every review, theory and your playthrough! Can’t wait for part 3!
Maybe the crack in the sky is the start of the edge of creation?
Agreed. Two skys, two worlds, two ideas of freedom. Ehich one will prevail os based on Clouds actions
just finished it - first - Damn them. I had such a big smile on my face when I thought I was going to change things only to have it taken away. Secondly - Cetra are putting me in mind of the denizens of FFX.
I think connecting to Advent Children is something they would have been thinking about from the beginning, since they've been adding all the compilation stuff at every chance they get. My guess is making the connection to FFX official. Fan theories about FFX and FFVII being connected have been around for a while, making it official would make fans happy.
It better not be one of those "none of it matters" situations, i'll be super pissed if they're that lazy
It’s shaping up to be that way. All these plot ghosts, alt timelines, etc. is just to shoehorn Zack into these games.
That would easily be the worst possible conclusion to this trilogy. Please God…
@@raven-19xZack had like 15 min of screentime. I think they're shooting for something bigger
@@BigBootyBatman So far that is all this weird take to the journey has added. A playable Zack with a last boss tutorial fight lol. I expect him to be slightly more involved next game because otherwise, what is the point if this is going to end similar to OG?
It doesn't have to end differently than the OG did for it to matter imo. I think a lot of it is going to be more of a spiritual message at the end. If it's used to empower and introduce new character dynamics to certain moments from the OG (like what they are presumably using the ending of this game for with Cloud's character climax in the next game) then it is worth it for me. If you're expecting it to go off in a wildly different direction or end at a completely different point then you will be disappointed. They have said numerous times over the years and even before Remake released that the project as a whole was still going to follow the 'axis' of the OG game and cover all of the same moments.
It could end differently but if it does I expect it to be in an ambigious way like the OG ending.
Max, in cosmo canyon there is a group of villagers singing ff7 AC promised land song live on repeat I watch your whole playthrough and I didn't see you find them but it's clear advent children is huge part of ff7 storyline
Not a huge part. 😂
It's not even the first time they use songs from the movie.
It’s just fan service. Although I do think they’re trying lead the remake series to advent children. Maybe they’ll make a advent children game 🌝
If the characters get a happy ending, they deserve it. They’ve been stuck with their “Loss” ending for 30 years by the time the finale is out.
You don't have to force a happy ending onto everything.
@@TheOneGreat that misses the point so completely. it has nothing to do with "forcing a happy ending". it's about what *that* story is, what *those* characters are going through.
@@MarkerInTheSand It was rewritten so it's a happy ending. Because everything has to be. You'll see.
26:57 You're talking about like, we already have that, as though when this happens in Rebirth as one of Sephiroth's combat moves, it's a reference to Advent Children. Well maybe, but that's hard to say, because even when they do that in Advent Children, it's a replay of their fight in the Nibelheim reactor five years prior to the OG7 events. That was the signature moment where Sephiroth skewered Cloud and held him aloft, and Cloud plunged himself down to flip it around and throw Sephiroth over the edge, the moment when he killed Sephiroth.
So is it a nod to advent children? Who can say, because that bit in AC is itself a nod to the OG7 history.
I just now finished and your dead on about seperation anxiety lmao but we now have part 3 to look forward to. Thank you max. That was like 2 months of straight magic. ❤
the break in the sky means for me that two universes have collapse, in the case of zack the main one and the one where he lives have united, however in the final scene only cloud can see the crack, because he has united the main universe and the one where Aerith is alive
and the other can't see it because they live just in the main
I think Lifestream Aerith has officially revealed herself, and this is who we see at the end. She purposefully doesn't show herself to the other party members because that would cause another break in fate/the timelines.
Aerith knows that Cloud will continue to struggle with Sephiroth. I think she's gonna be an inner voice for Cloud similar to how Sephiroth is, effectively giving Cloud two opposing voices in his head to deal with.
When Cloud falls into the lifestream, I have a feeling Aerith is likely gonna make a comeback to help Cloud recover his memories. Tifa already fell into the lifestream so I doubt they're gonna have her do it again. Aerith is obviously the only one who can stop meteor, but I think they've expanded her importance in that she will be the key to Cloud figuring out who he really is. She mentions this during the final fight with Sephiroth, which feels like a foreshadowing of her role in the next game.
This is likely gonna involve Cloud reliving his painful memories with Zack (the REAL memories) which is gonna be hard to watch.
Aerith is neither dead, nor alive. She is merely strategizing and navigating the worlds/lifestream to stay a step ahead of Sephiroth.
Cloud will not mourn. He can't. Because to him, Aerith is not dead. And it is that combination of delusion and hope that will eventually lead him to lose his mind.
Aerith literally CAN'T be a hallucination at the end. That is logically impossible. Because she continues to be there even after Cloud is not involved at the end when she says goodbye when no one is observing her. Something can't be a hallucination if it continues to manifest separate from the person hallucinating it. She continues to retain her conciousness and self after death just like she did in the original game. That is by far, objectively, the most correct conclusion.
I am glad someone else is bringing this up. The final scene of the game is from her perspective. She is watching them leave which isn't possible if she is just a hallucination of Cloud. She is at the very least there in spirit to say goodbye.
That’d be great if we actually got the emotional impact of her death and her death to wasn’t garbled by multiverse shenanigans.
That seems more like foreshadowing to me. Plus jenova/sephiroth do tend to linger before disappearing in that purple mist
I don’t why nobody is bringing this up either, but she literally touched Red and he felt her presence
@@NotAigis- red felt a presence he assumed to be aerith*
I'm really not on board with hallucination Aerith. The whole game deals with the multiverse idea, so from a narrators perspective it would make much more sense, that this Schrödingers Aerith thing ties into the grand theme of the story which has clearly been the multiverse thing. So I strongly believe, that she is alive in another world that Cloud gets a glimpse of. Plus: Nanakis reaction stronly speaks against the hallucination theory.
Your take on the Nomura quote at the end is an interesting one. I don't think it destroys the two universe theory - Nomura could be suggesting here that Cloud is simply repressing the death universe but embracing the living universe. Just a thought. I really don't think the multiverse thing is going to be tucked away neatly or is a way of amplifying the story. I just think it's par for the course in terms of modern day storytelling (which I hate, tbf). I think it will be resolved at the end (hopefully), but I still think it will be a key feature throughout 3.
I am excited for the next game. Three long years. They should get rid of the towers and Chadley and have NPCs to show quests and map locations. Showing the remaining quests and locations for each area should be unlocked for chapter select or new game + after beating the game.
And find summons in caves n stuff like the og
Gotta grab that popcorn
I completely agree with what you're saying about Zack, it doesn't matter what world he's from and I have a truly crazy theory from it. I expect he's splintering timelines to do the Dr. Strange 1 in 1 million chance of defeating Sephiroth, and he's now found it. We saw potentially 7 Zacks, but there could and likely were so many more. It's also insanely worth noting we actually have a distinct Aerith as well now with the pin, so if we see that pin we can ???? as soon as it happens.
My theory is that with this final game, they're going to give us multiple endings. I think they may continue with the party happiness system that was started here, and let it dictate some of the game's flow in the future. Cloud is almost smiling at the end, because he believes Aerith isn't dead and that is going to anger so many people in the party. I think the game is going to try and push you towards anger and hatred, and push you into Sephiroth's arms to whatever he's planning, but if you defy him and fill your hollow heart with love, care and reconciliation, you may fall into Aerith's hopes and dreams which'll push you down a path towards a new, much brighter future. And if you don't fall into either of their plans, you just loop over and over just like Zack did.
It'd be absolutely crazy if they could pull something like that off, especially because it helps with the problem where players want it to follow OG FF7, but they also want to provide a small bit of hope where there was none. But until we know more of their plans, this is all just guesswork.
While I'm not going to watch this video, just wanted to thank you for making a non-spoiler and spoiler video with it listed in the title. As someone that has to wait for steam release it's hard to avoid FF7R info, I'm even still avoiding FF16 info.
Calling it: Each parts of the Buster Sword from Advent Children comes from a different "world". Cloud's limit break has him jumping from one piece to another, slashing and stacking them up together, ending with the fully assembled sword. Perfectly representing how Seph's getting deleted in every world iterations simultaniously - and Cloud's struggle comming full circle, picking up scraps of his broken psyche, in each worlds and builds himself anew.
I have a theory I am working on that has different Clouds as the full knights of the round for a multiversal omnislash. Same vibe
Lird please let this be true.
@@TreeTheWolfHoly shit that's dope bro
Aerith has transcended time and space somehow.
I kind of love that evolution of this character.
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive."
Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial."
Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..."
Cloud can watch her shower without repercussions. This is a defeat to you?
She arguably already had in Advent Children. She already still existed in the Lifestream. She's essentially the same as multiversal Sephiroth now IMO.
@@Drw-id-Kirin
What are you even going on about?
The lifestream I think
I’d love a legit advent children Retelling as an ending chapter. But done right and changing the events but still similar.
Wont happen tho
I would rather AC not happen at all.
@@stonehorn4641 too bad
Really hope they answer everything. We already have Kingdom Hearts with the never ending questions without answers.
Its Nomura, he makes stuff more complicated than it has to be in order to be edgy. Could have done it alot better in KH.
I really hope they anser atleast 90% of the question, leaving 10% up for interpretation is fine but not anymore.
What is the life stream? What’s the difference from the OG life stream?
@@TheMilhouseExperiencenothing is different
They won’t. They will continue milking us beyond part 3.
In the Remake soundtrack, we got a hint at the name of Part 2 with “One Winged Angel - Rebirth”. I’m wondering if we’re getting that with the song in Rebirth called “Revival of the Black Materia”. With Sephiroth’s real body being revived… Cloud undergoing somewhat of a revival…the series also undergoing a revival… I wouldn’t be mad if Part 3 was FF7: Revival.
The multi world-ness started from the very start of rebirth. There was there from the beginning. T-stamp was shown first. We saw the clear Stamp poster after the panout but that new report went Reporter nearly getting hit then badmouthing Wuiti and Avalanche and clearly wrapping up for the day turning it off. Then when we see the newscast after the fade to black and Zack approaching the TV in sector 4. He is nearly hit by truck, mentioned the disaster but doesn't get to blaming Avalanche before he starts going oh and look over here they are puling people from the wreckage with no cut out and wrap up. Plus the Church is blown up when he goes to find Biggs in t-stamp timeline. Plus Intergrade has him having found a place for Cloud and going to the Church first and not finding Aerith which is another one as well.
Okay now I am more confused because I swear I've seen different version of these exact Twitter pksts with more context to certain parts.
For example, I've seen other versions of the last post he looked at with Nomura were it doesn't say that but instead says:
"Nomura mentions that many wanted to see Aerith avoid that fate on the OG for FF7 Rebirth, and that's why the team delievered, having Cloud successfully deflect Spehiorth.
There is a question that then asks why everytime Cloud gets a headache with noise, he sees random flashbacks"
It then states the part about Cloud's mind rejecting in all the headaches. This translation seems to seperate the headache question and the Aerith death scene question, which seems to line up with the rest of the Ultimania and interviews where they seemed commited to making the death ambiguous for the sake of Part 3.
The fact that even Ultimania can't seem to make up its damn mind about where the story is going and what is going on is not making me confident for the writting of the 3rd game.
Though I am confident Aerith will return and be playable, not because of timeline stuff or lifestream stuff.
No, I am confident because with how filled to the brime with fanservice these games are, there is no way in hell they wouldn't put Princess Guard, the Umbrella, or Great Gospel in this game unless they are going to be in Part 3, in which then Aerith would need to be playable enough to warrent having several weapons. Especially since Princess Guard was found in the Temple of the Ancients.
God I love this!
Am I the only one thinking it’s not just Omni Aerith, but also Omni Seph? Like we are sometimes talking to a “grunt” seph, and at the end we’re talking to Omni Seph, with him finally coming face to face with Omni Aerith. Which would make sense that they are both lifestreamed. It feels like he is tipping the hat to her like a chess player finally meeting in person, after playing online forever. Either way; I love it.
*_Yes. I would call Sephiroth “ultimate bad” and Aerith “ultimate good”. They are both by far the strongest and most powerful characters in the story. I also agree with the chess match analogy; they are both operating on a level that is almost incomprehensible to the rest of the characters. There’s a massive holy war going on, and Sephiroth and Aerith are the ones truly fighting it._*
I prefer to call them post Advent Children Sephiroth and Aerith.
Nothing really new about it. Not so different than in the OG as Sephiroth died first so he became a traveller on the lifestream then when Aerith died, she managed to become one as well. Hence, Lifestream: Black/White being the title for their stories in On the Way to a Smile novel.
I'm pretty sure we'll see Omni-Cloud too by the end of it.
Omni Seph is lifestream pilled and time coded
Totally agree that Zack ended up in "our world" at the end of Rebirth. Which is awesome.
I want Zack to join the party so bad.😂
Sephiroth explicitly made it a point to keep Cloud and Zack in different worlds. Why would he send Zack somewhere else just to let him join Cloud again? That logic doesn't hold up for me. If he does end up being in the "normal" timeline now there is going to need to be a very explicit explanation as to how in order for it to make any kind of sense.
@@kingofbudokaiafter Sephiroth started to get the business from Zack and Cloud he was like "hell nah can't get smoked by these to 2 MFs gotta separate they ass"
Love this video, one of my favorites youve ever made. It cleared up a few of the questions i had, because of what the developers confirmed. It also led me to other questions, the same you have. Really excited to play part 3!
The final battle of Remake was basically Advent Children, and the final battle of Rebirth is basically the final battle of the OG, makes me incredibly interested how they are going to one-up them both.
I think the Cloud thing in the end comes to make a bigger impact when Tifa helps him remember and fix his mind.
Now she has been in the lifestream and makes sense she knows how to traverse it to help Cloud remember Aerith died and that he has Zack's memories. There we will see the scene with him laying Aerith in the water.
i have a feeling that tifa is not going to save cloud in part 3
Max thank you for being awesome. Love all your videos.
We were deprived of our goodbye... in this game. That's the curveball, we were all prepared to bawl our eyes out. Cloud getting his memory back in part 3 will be absolutely devastating as we finally get our goodbye.
I think that would be boring. Now what would be an even better goodbye is if Cloud saved Aerith...but only for that parallel world, so even though he won he still has to say goodbye regardless.
Will it really be devastating at all if we already see it coming?
Clouds mom dying, Zach dying and Aerith dying all in one shot I would consider devastating, yes.
@@Zenixx_DLC I'm pretty sure that Cloud knows his mom is dead even in his altered state.
I think seeing kid Aerith at the temple of the ancients is that moment now.
When you mentioned that sephiroth has no concept of time wild theory that the final fights of remake and rebirth are the same fight (from sephiroths point of view) and the 3rd games final fight will bring all the fights into one point bringing all the worlds back together or reunited. (Not reunion, but a possible name with Zach wondering in worlds can unite again)
I have NO doubt in my mind that FFVII part 3 is going to release on the 30th anniversary of the original FF7’s release. So give or take it’s coming out January/February 2027
FFVII Rebirth was a life changing experience, ion even know why. I beat the story then felt awful, the post-game depression hit me so hard, I was so absorbed by the game that my life seemed meaningless to me, like fr I felt like I was about to start crying every time I was even thinking about the game. I started my grind for the platinum to feel better, platinumed it a couple weeks ago and I feel a little better but man… this game really changed my life and I’m only 17, no other game made me feel like this. The first time I beat the main story I literally felt the same thing you feel when you broke up with someone you love. It’s crazy. to me this the Best game ever
Grow up
42:43
Me, a trails fan: 10 years? Rookie numbers
Discourse surrounding FF7 has been absolutely insufferable as of late since the Ultimania dropped; mainly because so many people are so insistent that the Ultimania is confirming/disproving theories... when it's literally doing the opposite. All it's doing is reaffirming our suspicions we initially had... while not actually confirming anything. FOR GOOD REASON. Why would the writers intentionally spoil their upcoming mystery filled semi-sequel through a book? It makes no sense, yet people keep citing it's existence like it's the holy spoiler bible.
Media literacy is truly dying...
The way they did/are doing with the three games in this series is dope and reminds me of xenosaga(underrated asf imo)
regarding game development you are 100 % correct.... . i myself m a senior 3d artist in my company. n i know the feel when we maintain the same team on a particular project again n again in comparison to bringing new people in the project. the time difference is huge when the same people do the repeated stuff compared to new people who still have to figure out the problems while working on the project.... that's why we start giving the new people smaller stuff of the project and let them get experienced to a point where they can work at the same level of perfection on the main stuff...