Wishful thinking: Whilst replaying Cosmo Canyon I listened again to the Gi's descriptions of the Black Materia "From the Planet we claimed the greatest of Materia - a most sacred treasure - and imbued it with our desire for freedom" "The purest Materia made black by spite" Implying the black Materia began as white & that it is unique from other Materia in that it holds hopes & dreams. We have an empty White Materia, and appear to have "seen a glimpse of Clouds dream of a world without death". I think it is highly likely we will experience the continuation of that dream in part 3 and that it will eventually occupy or be drawn into that empty Materia. 2 orbs, a dream of Optimism and a dream of Pessimism. Its funny that Square famously received a petition to resurrect Aerith. Hopes and dreams of the fan base. They will not compromise the story or its themes to do so, but within the context of its world, they may just show us a dream of what that is.
@@Joshiepoo2525 Awesome! Curious to see what the wider community thinks of it as well. There is one more thematic, but slightly less concrete thought I have had regarding how we see Sephiroth and his ultimate goal which you question towards the end of the video. It also ties back to Buddhism which fits well with the cycle of reincarnation and the Nature of the dream worlds manifesting realities. The inspirations on this world are quite clear. Sephiroth's goal sounds like a perverse variation on some of the features of Enlightenment, Budda Fields & Celestial realms. A goal of Enlightenment being to escape suffering caused by attachment and the Cycle of reincarnation. In the tale of Bamboo Cutter princess Kaguya is sent to Earth to experience attachment as a punishment. In the Ghibli version of this tale I see some similarities with FF7s themes. The celestial realm is depicted as closer to enlightenment and perfection. Its beings emotionless and serene in contrast to those in the Human realm. They offer a reading that as apart of her punishment she experiences both the joys and sorrows of living on earth. She even regrets returning to the Celestial realm, almost mourning the loss of the experience of "Life" that she has on earth. The implication being that to experience Joy, Sorrow, Suffering & Consequences are all essential to the experience of "living". Sephiroth seems to be attempting to impose a variation of Perfection on reality through his "Infinity". By merging the infinite possibilities, all things may become simultaneously "True" meaning we may in a way escape suffering and consequences forever and reject death itself. This is antithetical to the theme of accepting death. A world without it may become devoid of life as just the joys of living aren't enough. Without sorrow, consequences and death the existence is no longer "Life" you are no longer "living". This theme even becomes antithetical to the idea of "multiverses" in that they often rob there narratives of consequences, flavour and meaning in a similar way. I'm not 100% sure of this as there is a Quote from Aerith at the end of Remake "the voices role of his back like rain and when they are gone he wont feel anything", which suggests that his plan may well be very destructive.
@@Kean_Bean Wow...This. Buddhist and Hinduist motifs are abundant in all jrpgs, and FF in particular. Sephiroth reminds me of the god Shiva who withdrew into himself because of the death of his beloved, neglecting the creative workings of the world that demanded his divine attention..so much that even the highest God Brahma, the flow of creation itself became unable to act due to Shiva's self obsession. He turned to the goddess of femininity, Shakti who was reborn as a human and had to undergo immense trials to bring Shiva back to his divine duties. In the end, Sephiroth is motivated by the burden of eternal loneliness. Aerith comments as much in Rebirth... He survives because of hate people feel for him, and would rather see everything destroyed than vanquish into oblivion, which to him is the epitome of being alone.
I completely agree with you. The OG was a masterpiece in itself. It was subtle and everything made sense within that story. But the same devices that made sense in the OG would NOT make sense in the FFVIIR trilogy. There’s literally no way Cloud could bury Aerith and move on at the moment. Thank you for articulating everything so beautifully
I think the ff7 remake trilogy has exceeded far and beyond for my initial expectation. Not that i don't have my doubt and even skepticism when it was first announced in 2015. Having played both remake and rebirth, i think kitase, nojima and nomura knew EXACTLY what they are doing, exploring the deeper meaning of the original ff7 even further, probably making it the most spiritual and deepest story that final fantasy has ever told. I can't wait for the part 3 to be released, to experience this incredibile journey and spectacular story telling.
There's one thing that I'd like to draw attention to: the final date. I've watched a lot of these videos but not all of them. So maybe it's been discussed elsewhere and I haven't seen it yet. In the final date, you have to make a series of 3 choices. I think 3 times. However, these choices don't matter because no matter what you choose, there is a fourth, unforseen, event. This scene is then followed by Zack on the steps of the church, mulling over his 3 options, trying to decide. Then Sephiroth shows up as the 4th result. I don't, as of yet, have a theory as to what this is trying to convey outside of the obvious: choice is an illusion. I'm also coming to speculate that the rainbow light isn't about choice at all. It's simply a representation of the road not taken. So just a visual depiction of "What if I had done things differently?" There are still some questions left as well. These are probably going to end up being potholes but they're worth pointing out. If time travel isn't a thing, then why were there divergences in the first game? Things like Cloud not initially being part of the team on the second bombing run or Barret getting stabbed in Shinra HQ? Or even Sephiroth showing up earlier than he was supposed to? If there is time travel, then I'm guessing it will be similar to what was shown in Final Fantasy VIII. There's also the missing Ex-SOLDIER in the beginning of Rebirth. We see our party being carried away by Shinra and hear a warning that the Ex-SOLDIER who was with them is still at large. I'm wondering if there are 2 Clouds or 2 Zacks in this world. Or if it's someone else like Genesis? Like I suggest, it's probably just a plot hole but it's an oddly specific one. I'm just wondering how that works in the context of that world.
The missing ex soldier is just the memory of an ex soldier that fought with Avalanche. That can be looked at as a means of throwing Zack into the mix, as he comes in right when they are looking for him and fits the bill cuz he is an ex soldier himself
the ex soldier part I see it could be like saying the worlds are merging and so stuff is getting weird. Like for example the radio talking about the tornado can be heard at kalm if you listen to it so that could be the reason. What I actually think and this is not really talked about is the role zack is going to play in the next part, if you notice the parts we play as zack what he is doing is he is mostly saying positive things to the sad "Biggs" so zack obviously is portrayed as a beacon of "Positivity" which could enhance his role to a more important one, maybe include him in the wutai war or something bcs I think Zack's postivity is going to play a role against Sephiroth's Grief
I think fighting the Harbinger of Fate was Sephiroths plan to take a precious memory of the planet away from Aerith: the power to pray for Holy...therefore actually changing fate itself since Holy would not be able to be summoned in order to fight Meteor. It also allowed for Cloud to be able to believe he could have a choice in saving Aerith, knowing at best it only creates a temporary world in the lifestream where she is alive. He needs Cloud "in between" worlds to get the true black materia, which he suddenly had in his pocket in the end even after giving it to Sephiroth. Aerith countered all this by giving Cloud the white materia to swap, which angered Sephiroth and he made it clear that it doesnt belong in the real world. He was well aware of the white materia being drained, hence why i believe that was his plan from the get go
Great vid. Road A would be my absolute (pardon the pun) dream ending. It betrays nothing, it delivers on both the themes from OG and the Remake trilogy, and it gives the finality that OG didn't, in an emotionally satisfying way. I'm in the minority but I loved the nature of the flash sideways in Lost, and the finale is still one of my favourite episodes of television ever. I think a similar treatment for our FFVII family would be perfect tbh.
Ah, finally. Someone else whom is in the Sleeping World/Dying Dreams of the Planet camp. If you played KH Dream Drop Distance, I think FF7re is doing something similar, that various dreams have become reality (awakened) after the Fate Divergences made new realities, real. Similarly Sephiroth and the Black Whispers seem to be consuming these Worlds like Nightmares and the White Whispers seem to be enforcing the World’s borders(fate) in order to protect these same dreams acting as Spirits. The brown whispers from remake are a grey in-between, Dream Eaters that can act as both Nightmares and Spirits, but were nonetheless protecting Fate
On a related note to “fate” I think the moral dilemma in FF7re is whether to hold on to the past, finding any way possible to keep it alive… or to move on, let go, and let the dead die. Sure you can mcgyver some conglomeration of dreams, memories and defied fates that kill the concept of death… but to do so is wrong and utterly unnatural, the very things Aerith accused Sephiroth of in part 1
I just find it frustrating that people dismiss the potential of this story due to outside perspectives related to other IPs that have nothing to do with this kind of story; in short an incorrect lens. There’s something truly beautiful with the Remake Project and it’s getting dunked on unjustifiably. Could this be a case of Square expecting too much of their audience in 2024?
I really do not want this game to copy the show Lost. That’s my issue with this theory. I hope they have more creative people at Square. This would be a really disappointing way to finish the game. About as bad as the other theory with Cloud dying and sacrificing himself. Hope part 3 is better…
Beautiful and touching...but partial.They'll give us a lot more,and It Will be necessary,otherwise the cycle life-death as presented in the trilogy would never have the right meaning for ALL the main characters involved...The story Is about understanding,empathy,compassion and forgivness too.....The third part of this game Will give us many surprises
I'm looking forward to seeing what they plan to do. I just hope they don't piss on this beloved world and story in the end, like so many of these large AAA companies seem to be doing with their games. All I can say so far is, the first two games have been great. Hope the 3rd is the best of all.
As much as I would like for the story to go a different direction in the final chapter, I think this explanation makes more sense than some others and seems more in keeping with the original. Personally, I loved the idea that this was actually sequel rather than a retelling/remake/remix/etc; that OG FF7 already happened, and that Sephiroth and Aerith in the lifestream, which seems to connect to all points in time, entered a tug of war - first when he attempted to ressurect himself foward in time in Advent Children, and again when he reaches backward to try and prevent his death and defeat as Aerith continually works to stop him. But that notion gets messy and is less in keeping with the original message of FF7, as you addressed here.
This is why i'll always defend the fact that "This Trilogy is more FF7 than the Original FF7" When The Promised Land played in Rebirth at the Forgotten Capital i started to cry. It was joy, nostalgia, and pure happiness. In that moment i realized that those days of my first playthrough of FF7 Rebirth were days i'll forever be grateful for being alive and being able to experience them. As an OG FF7 fan and as a person who has a deep connection and feelings with this universe i have no words to express how much joy and happiness FF7 Rebirth gave me. Since 2015 i knew that Remake Project was going to be something truly special and this whole trilogy so far has been an experience of a lifetime. That's why every time i hear fans saying that Rebirth is tearing apart and being an absolute disgrace to the original story of FF7 i think to myself "Did you get what FF7 is all about?" "You know what the Lifestream represents?" all what they can say everytime these metaphysical concepts begin to shine these people just say "it's Kingdom Hearts bs" "Nomura destroyed FF7 (Ignoring the fact that Nojima is the father of the FF7 Story)" The way i see it, and a lot of more people, it's a work of love and passion in every single corner of this entire project so far. Cannot wait for Part 3 and the potential ending of the entire FF7 Compilation.
Beautiful analyzis! Being initially a purist, these games have converted me to caring more about the character's hopes and dreams coming true, about the deepened spiritual exploration and meaning behind the story, about our heroes embracing life and eventually defeating their original fate, more than about having the same story unfolding once again. In this sense I am very much leaning to your explanation of the flip side of the coin, that having a true happy ending, with our heroes surviving and thriving, and this probably even including Sephiroth's redemption and him eventually accepting his finality and of course with addressing the elephant in the room, Aerith's possible survival, after having generations of gamers griefing her ireversible death, will not hurt the original story, but enhance it by laying the emphasis on the the opposite spectrum of "life" instead of "death" This would eventually close the cirlce of yin and yang, of life and death, of loss and happiness, of hatred and love and round up the story to the final conclusion of what makes the human experience meaningful by experiencing the contrasts of reality, where it is impossible to even describe the one, without it's opposite. And what a beautiful way it would be to end this journey on that note.
I was happy to see how Sephiroth was together with Cloud...He look like a good guy, a good role model for cloud.... I still have many questions...for one..How did he get all that power he has????...but no of that matter...in the end I just want My Dear AERIS back!.....The creators decided to change the story..I am really hoping...on the third Cd game they bring her back and back together with cloud.. I adore those 2 together, I know this controversial, But I think Cloud and Tifa had something as kids..But Aeris...is different...I truly feel they belong together...I do feel they love each other..because they both accept each other as they are!...Great video..Thanks.
Funny you mention the whole ending at the expense of the casual gamer. Most of the casual gamers newer to the franchise were most open and recieptive to sorta what was being handed to them while most people experienced with FF7 were thrown for a loop. I legit had a double take watching a streamer that never played OG pointing out the Stamps and mentioning timelines and stuff. While people that played OG would go "WTF is going on?!" It's a really funny trend I noticed but it could also be youtube pushing the more keen eyed streamers forward since I do watch a lot of theories and stuff. XD
i love how the purists complain about nomura so much do they even know that, if not for him, literally everyone but your party at the moment they were raiding midgar would die????
Loved your video, theres a lot of theories and analysis but this is the best imo. Im just wondering about the stamps with different breed of dogs. Are they made only to mark the difference between worlds/dreams/realities... and im not sure if its relevant but all of events which we can see are taking place in midgar and area, except the main timeline obviously, around the time of the reactor bombing and when sector 7 plate fell
A lot of interesting philosophical contemplation on what it means to live and die. I have long wondered and thought about these topics, and for the (heh) life of me, I can not understand the resignation that people have about the idea of simply accepting death. Every second that were alive is a defiance of death. We’re constantly trying to deny entropy. Medicine? Suspension of injury and illness that lead to death. Safety? Threat reduction to avoid death. Fitness and dieting? Habits to promote function and longevity to avoid death. All of our technology is geared towards it and now the full might of it will soon be used to create life extension and preservation technology. No. I don’t accept death. And when people really examine themselves, they’ll realize they don’t either. We painfully and uncomfortably endure our loved ones dying, we have to negotiate with our grief until it loses some of its power over us. But if there were some way to bring our loved ones back or prevent them from dying altogether, we would do it in a heartbeat That said, I’ll never understand the people who want to preserve the original depressing, reductive, myopic core of FF7’s theme. Death is ok, really because you can’t fight fate. It just isn’t true. We are collectively, over time, through our combined efforts beating entropy. Why the hell can’t our fantasy stories where magic and monsters and solar system destroying fireballs exist not allow us to defy death? Some people really just can’t accept hope.
Some people find comfort in ways you don't. Hope has nothing to do with death for me. The idea that we're all struggling against death doesn't really track when most of us are pretty apathetically floating through life, or when it's a blatant fact that we all will eventually die (not much to defy if it's a matter of time till it happens). It's not a case of defying death (imo) or living forever, or even a long time. None of that matters and if we did have the ability to live forever, nothing would matter after enough time. What does matter (again imo) is what we do today, and when tomorrow is today, and so on. If you're kind or cruel or whatever else, that's all that really makes an impact in the grand scheme of things and that's not a bad thing. Our lives aren't undone by death, they just don't last forever. It's more important to me that I spend my time well than have a lot of it. And I personally find forced positivity, treating death/the negatives of life as taboo and so on patronising, somewhat selfish and utterly pointless. I find far more hope in acknowledging the reality of our circumstances and finding the space within that to make my time worthwhile vs finding hope in some blind idea that I won't have to die. You talk as if everyone else is just in denial yet your comment reads to me like someone who can't accept mortality and is assigning some sense of right and wrong to subjective perspectives to support their own. This was just my personal perspective but it's here to make a point, not everyone sees things how you do and that's not something to be judgmental about.
@@dommoore6180 I don’t know where you get the notion that my criticism of people that “accept death” is some moral failing from, but that’s not my intention if that’s not clear enough. It’s a failure of imagination and an inability to deal with concept of terror management. I make explicit the thought that I don’t “accept death”, it’s not something you have to read into either. That’s not to say that I don’t realize and accept that we (humanity) don’t *currently* have an effective way to treat senescence or death yet. This is also something I expound on in the post you responded to. You write as if I haven’t encountered and studied these (and I don’t meant to be offensive but it’s just the truth) very pedestrian philosophy you’re writing about when it comes to dealing with your own terror management. So you treasure the finite things in life because they are finite? Cool, something like biological immortality doesn’t stop any of those things from being finite. You can still appreciate them for the same reasons. None of what you’ve written contradicts what I wrote, nor does it really address it. If the examples I gave aren’t about staving off entropy and death, why do we engage with them? What’s the inherent value? How much do you treasure all the time you spend brushing your teeth? And if life is more precious the more finite, why wouldn’t One plan out the most effective and rewarding things to do with One’s life and decide to purposefully die immediately after achieving it? Right now you would likely say you wouldn’t want eternal life, but also, if I asked if you wanted to die tomorrow, you’d likely say “no”. Moreover, barring an inescapable and unending pain or psychological distress, if I asked you that question every day for the next 50 years, I would wager you’d still say “no”. And when you reflexively want to contradict me on this point, you won’t be able to do it without referencing precisely what I’ve already addressed. “Why would I want that? eventually I’ll become old and frail, I’ll have lived through too much trauma, everyone around me will have died, boredom would be intolerable, etc etc.” When you think all of that, please re-read what I wrote.
@@OmegaLogos "It’s a failure of imagination and an inability to deal with concept of terror management" - yeah see that's where you read like someone who can't accept mortality assigning right and wrong to subjective perspectives. At best it's pretentious and more realistically it just makes you look unable to deal. I'm not scared of dying. I'm sure you with your generally pretentious attitude will claim that I'm lying, but I'm not scared of it. Maybe I will be when I'm on my death bed? Who knows. But right now, it doesn't scare me at all. So all this talk of "terror management"? Kind of amusing. I didn't tell you I treasure anything, I said nothing would matter if we all lived forever and that I personally find more hope in knowing that I'll die but being able to make use of my time than I would in the idea of living forever, something that I don't want to do. What I wrote was my personal perspective that differed from yours and as I said the point was to illustrate that your judgemental attitude to other people's perspectives on a totally subjective topic was ridiculous. Again I didn't say I treasure anything. I generally feel that life is a good 90% suffering for a vast majority of people. That doesn't invalidate the good things but that's besides the point. I said that what I (or you) do each day is all that really matters in the end because that's what will have an impact, as opposed to just wanting to live forever because you don't want to die or lose loved ones. I didn't say it was more precious because it wasn't endless. I said it wasn't endless. You're making a lot of stuff up here pal. As for the idea about planning your life out, because that's blatantly ridiculous. People don't all want to spend their lives doing specific things, most people spend most days just getting by. I'm not going to get super personal but people wanting to die isn't remotely uncommon is it. Even if that want doesn't last for person x or person y. Again not everyone thinks like you do and not everyone is so set on not dying just because. I'd honestly question the sorts of experiences you've had in life if someone not being terrified of dying or even being alright with the concept is so unbelievable to you. There's far more important things than longevity. "when you reflexively want to contradict me" - giving yourself a lot of credit. Alongside lines like "very pedestrian philosophy" and you being sure to mention that you've "studied". Yeah I went to uni too, it's not impressive, you're just pretentious. Bottom line is, you're being highly judgemental of anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint on death, which is amusing since your viewpoint is wildly childish and reads incredibly fuelled by fear. If we all lived forever stagnation wouldn't begin to cover it. There'd be no point in anything for any of us after enough time. Nothing to build towards except our own satisfaction and once we already did it all, it's a time bomb waiting to blow. Nobody wants to lose their loved ones and yes most people will want to live rather than die most of the time. That doesn't mean that everyone does, it doesn't mean we should live forever and it doesn't mean living is the most important thing there is.
Assuming these worlds are a spiritual journey in the lifestream before death, I wonder what the point of an "alive" Biggs prominently featuring in Zack's worlds/dreams is. Not to mention why Biggs in specific was the only member of Avalanche to experience these worlds/dreams, when they all had unresolved personal baggage. Also, why are characters that Zack had no relation to appearing, like Marlene, Kyrie, and Johnny?
I agree highly with your multiple ending idea, I think thats the real new step to take to highten the rest of the FF7 story while definitively doing something with the new story concepts they added in.
Just as much as i don't want or expect the deaths in the original ff7 to be simply "erased", I also don't want this full saga to be about Cloud overcoming his grief, and ending with him having a normal life married with kids. To me, this is implicit after the original ff7, and never needed to be spelled out. A "reality check" at the end defeats the purpose in my opinion, of the epic stories and the fantasy. Of course the characters move on after the events, but this "after" is not the part that is worth knowing and seeing. The saga doesn't need anything more explicit, if the point is just that. I hope for something new, new revelations and epic events, otherwise i don't see the point ... The ending is not important to me, in the sense of just having everything explicitly showed instead of letting us with the memories and we all go our ways, like after the original ff7. In the original, we witnessed the events, then Cloud went on his way, and we went on ours. We all keep the memories and deal with them how we feel best.
Fantastic work. You just got my subscription lol! I'm probably going to have to watch this twice. I tend to compare the workings of this world to the brain itself. The actual body it controls, the conscious, the subconscious, the nice dreams, the intrusive thoughts, and the filters that allow thoughts, dreams, and nightmares to keep a balance with reality. If something were to poison or damage that brain, these filters might not work. Another idea is thinking of this story as a stream or a river; one that flows, separates, and reconnects. Water can evaporate, condense, fall as rain, run off back into the stream, and of course be full of bubbles that expand and eventually pop. Not to mention all the things that sink and float in the water. But lately I've been thinking about story telling and subversion. On this there are two questions I've been asking myself, and considering the gold you're giving out here, I wanted to share these: Are the different methods of injection for Jenova Projects G and S (Genesis and Angeal being indirect, and the superior specimen Sephiroth being direct) the reason for the projects' respective results, or was it the mental state and actions of the carrier? Gillian, who decided to stick it to Shinra, marry someone outside of the company, and ensure her son gets a normal life, with the other boy who would go through something similar being nearby with a normal life too. And Lucrecia, in despair and guilt over the death of Grimoire, who shunned the man she loved because of this guilt, partook in an experiment that she might not have done otherwise? With Jenova's nature, I wonder if Lucrecia's regret was the perfect 'food' for Jenova to make her vessel. The other thought: This story has one hell of a romance to it. Tifa and Aerith do a lot of incredible things for Cloud, and what a great friend he had in Zack. But if we're talking about doing things for Cloud, what about the person who raised Cloud and taught him what love is by example? Deep love that has nothing to do with romance, but a kind that allows a person to grow and one day make their own family. Considering the opposite dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sephiroth's obsession with his parentage, what if the worst loss for Cloud was the first. How brutal was the death of Claudia Strife? Has Cloud all but forgotten her? Did Sephiroth lift her by the blade and throw her into the burning house? Is there another Sephiroth in the flames when instead of turning away from the audience, he advances? While the relations Cloud has to his mother, Tifa (whom he thought died before the complex locked), Zack, and Aerith are all different, what if by not getting over the first and the worst, the next time is the first again, and again after that. Each time adding up to more and more feelings of helplessness and pain. Has the incredible story with Cloud, Tifa, Zack, and Aerith led us to overlook Claudia Strife? Will Cloud have to face the death of Claudia before he can see the deaths of Zack and Aerith?
Amazing video. I think a lot forget to that the developers are making this the “ultimate ff7” story brining in all the books, movie, expanding story moments they just could not in 1997.
@@unixtreme I don't know. Despite some additions with a little bit of remixing, the core narrative remains the same. The story, to this point, is still completely in line with the OG.
I recently learned that the simplest answer is the way to understand what seems complex, but isn't. This isn't even the first time we've seen certain types of narrative decisions in FF. What Sephiroth plans to do isn't even the first idea a villain in FF wants, it's very similar to what Ultimecia wanted to do in the FF8 universe. And about Aerith, I don't know why they still insist that she's "alive somewhere", that doesn't make sense to me and even less so after Ultimania. What's clear to me in this trilogy is to instigate you with the power of choice and in the end deliver something you didn't want, but need to accept, even though before all this existed everyone wanted it to be the same as the original game. In recent years we've seen people feeding on fears and false hopes about "changes", but at the core of the work it's all the same thing. Now, in this waiting period for the last part, things are going the same way, people saying that the third part will deviate far from the original and so on, everything is the same, the same feeling and the same fears. What I think is that the third part will end in the most pragmatic way possible, with the same scenes that require an in-depth look, but that in the core it is the same thing.
I lean towards, she is dead.... but Its very likely we will experience a Dream of her living, which will interplay very closely with the theme of accepting death on a narrative and mechanical level. Early game, we play as her dream, convinced she is alive. Mid game, understand and come to terms with what is going on at the same time as Cloud. End game, reject Sephiroth's plan of merging these worlds and prove we accept death is essential to life. "Tearful Farwell" predicted by Cait Sith in loveless. Maintaining the exact same story and series of events you predicted, only offering a slightly deeper reeding through the dream world B plot.
@@Dreadful27 I've tried several times and it's not letting me send the link, it's from a site called frontlinejp and the article is Final Fantasy VII Rebirth post release interview, the quote is towards the very end And it was Kitase who said that not Nojima, my bad for the incorrect info in my first comment that's not even here anymore lol
I don't think I like it. Everything is kick forward for the "great final game", where we leave all our expectations that they are going to do a good job. I am skeptical of that. With the information at hand, right now, they did a poorer job on the grief scenes. Will they make it better? Could be. And here is the difference between us, while Nomura is around the writing room, I don't think they will. My more cinical view is that, they wanted alternative universes and timelines (similar to FF13-3), saw the blacklash that shitpile was going to make to, let us not forget, their golden goose, and retconed a bunch of stuff. I will admit is very prettily retconed. Are the whispers still the representation of players who don't like the changes made? What are the "good" whispers then? Where did the crew fight this arbiter of fate? In a dream in the lifestream? That doesn't seem to be what is happening, according to the visuals on rebirth. Where were the "good" whispers in remake? they seem oddly missing for a story that was already planned out as much as they want us to believe. Nah, I believe they are going to do a good job, when they deliver a good job. I have no reason to believe this will not end with "the power of friendship can bring people back from the dead, because we deserve a happy ending". But death is like that, it cuts peoples life short (doh!), it stops your dreams and future, it finishes your hopes, it is unfair and sometimes undeserving. For those who are left to collect the pieces is fucked up. That is why we grief. But just because one life is cut, doesn't mean life itself is cut. I do not think that the theme "fighting for life" is akin to "resurrect Aerith", I think is anathema to what we are trying to do here, just because we lost Aerith (and if she retains her consciousness in the life stream... I'll argue that we haven't lost her that much ), we cannot stop fighting, because other lives are at steak, and we can save those. I don't think it is about "earning your happy ending", but accepting what we lost, and moving forward, finding happiness and meaning after it. On the environmentalism side, I also believe the same, it is not about saving what cannot be saved, is about protecting what is still here, even thought we might have lost a lot, the planets life, what remains of it, is still worth the fight. We might have lost a lot of lives, but if we protect the planet, other life will spur. Life will continue, until it stops, yeah, it will happen it may even be inevitable, but it doesn't need to happen now. But alas! I don't think the writers room in FF7 are going to go with that, because Nomura is still around and "the power of friendship" is the only trope he wants to explore.
Didn't expect to hear about parallels between FF7 and LOST - two of my favorite series of all time - but wasn't disappointed. What a rollercoaster of emotions! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
anyone analyze the linitial loveless play, when they are deancing, there is a dark and a light version, the dark version showing suffering with the light version showing a happy scenerio
Appreciate your work here. Somehow your channel avoided my attention and I'm glad i bumped into it bc your take on FF 7 Re series is the closest to my reception of the game. Huge fan of Lost series too )
That's such a deep and beautiful analysis. I like the 3rd road. Aerith is related to hope and wisdom, not denial. And she is the one who says the future can be changed. Tifa also asks if the lifestream can be strenghtened. Maybe there is a path where the Gi are accepted by the planet and help it regenerate without humanity dying. In the books, Barrett is on a quest to find other kind of energies instead of just fighting the use of Mako. This would be so satisfying and inspiring if the conclusion was building on this. Aerith herself maybe allowed to come back without conflict with the main theme because all of these characters have already experienced losses. They can grieve together Myrna, Claudia, Ifalna and so many people. One more death may actually be too much. Hope must be alive. And OG didn't go that far, Aerith's death was not leading Cloud to safe acceptance in the end.
Your theory/analysis makes the planet look like azathoth itself..... In lovecraft we are all azathoth's dream and when azathoth wakes up, we all cease to exist
No multiple endings. Period. It’s a cop out. It’s one thing for dates or scenes but they need to not leave this game on a cliffhanger or super ambiguous. There needs to be some clear answers. Unlike the end of REBIRTH. But yet they can still give clear answers while still leaving the game open to more growth in the future
If they're having a post death lifestream dream sequence (or whatever you want to call it) when does this take place ? We have dirge of cerberus and advent children, which indicates a continuous story and nobody has died yet so the post death theory is confusing
I'm not a Remake/Rebirth hater. It's a decent game. And I'm a huge FF7 OG fan. I've played it a dozen times and pick it up every few years to relive it again. But anyone saying this is a faithful retelling of the original story is lying. This is a different game with the OG IP slapped on top of it. There are so many changes made on it that it's clear that the developers are telling you that not only are you not in the same universe, you're not even on the same planet. Not only have events been changed, but locations have been moved or removed entirely. Having Fort Condor taken off the continent and placed in an unreachable distance with the condor flapping it's wings to taunt you that you can't go there was like a big middle finger by the developers that this isn't the world that you know anymore. And they didn't just add multiverses, they added time travel. Even the Remake end game whispers descriptions tell you they're from the future. For sephiroth to even be fighting you requires him to know what the future in the other multiverses are and he's come back in the past to defeat you in this multiverse. So quit saying this is a "faithful retelling", because it's anything but so
Thank you for not being a ban wagon rider and being able to think for yourself. Everyone making all these analytical videos have no idea what they talking about and I think we are going to be disappointed bout what really is going to happen in part 3
I just hope the world we explore will not be also the lifestream in the end. It would suck if one of this world is not the "real" world just because it is a Remake. It really needd to be like Lost if they go this road wherr everything on the island happened. And I don t mean the og FF7 here but the "main" world.
To anyone reading this, please repent and believe the gospel! There’s a loving God who wants to know you and save you. He died on the cross and resurrected so we can be forgiven of our sins and be saved. Please consider the state of your soul! Believe in Jesus and follow Him so you may have salvation. Life is short, please make the right choice today!
Awesome work. Great clarity. And thought provoking insights continue to abound. Thanks for voicing your journey with this wild FF7 death dream that this ReTri project feels like its shaping up to be 🪽 Lost, Evangelion, The Matrix, OG FF7, this has happened before and it will happen again. This echo of the dream within the wombs at the origin of our making that had to die one day in order for the birthing into reality so we can ultimately bare the power that comes from awakening forgotten memories.
![OsamaSon - ik what you did last summer [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4DIQDnu3mr4/mqdefault.jpg)
Wishful thinking:
Whilst replaying Cosmo Canyon I listened again to the Gi's descriptions of the Black Materia
"From the Planet we claimed the greatest of Materia - a most sacred treasure - and imbued it with our desire for freedom"
"The purest Materia made black by spite"
Implying the black Materia began as white & that it is unique from other Materia in that it holds hopes & dreams.
We have an empty White Materia, and appear to have "seen a glimpse of Clouds dream of a world without death". I think it is highly likely we will experience the continuation of that dream in part 3 and that it will eventually occupy or be drawn into that empty Materia.
2 orbs, a dream of Optimism and a dream of Pessimism.
Its funny that Square famously received a petition to resurrect Aerith. Hopes and dreams of the fan base. They will not compromise the story or its themes to do so, but within the context of its world, they may just show us a dream of what that is.
Yes, I like this.
Honestly I think you nailed it. Just made a tweet about this reply (@joshiepoo25). Also pinned this reply.
@@Joshiepoo2525 Awesome! Curious to see what the wider community thinks of it as well.
There is one more thematic, but slightly less concrete thought I have had regarding how we see Sephiroth and his ultimate goal which you question towards the end of the video.
It also ties back to Buddhism which fits well with the cycle of reincarnation and the Nature of the dream worlds manifesting realities. The inspirations on this world are quite clear.
Sephiroth's goal sounds like a perverse variation on some of the features of Enlightenment, Budda Fields & Celestial realms.
A goal of Enlightenment being to escape suffering caused by attachment and the Cycle of reincarnation.
In the tale of Bamboo Cutter princess Kaguya is sent to Earth to experience attachment as a punishment.
In the Ghibli version of this tale I see some similarities with FF7s themes.
The celestial realm is depicted as closer to enlightenment and perfection. Its beings emotionless and serene in contrast to those in the Human realm.
They offer a reading that as apart of her punishment she experiences both the joys and sorrows of living on earth. She even regrets returning to the Celestial realm, almost mourning the loss of the experience of "Life" that she has on earth.
The implication being that to experience Joy, Sorrow, Suffering & Consequences are all essential to the experience of "living".
Sephiroth seems to be attempting to impose a variation of Perfection on reality through his "Infinity".
By merging the infinite possibilities, all things may become simultaneously "True" meaning we may in a way escape suffering and consequences forever and reject death itself.
This is antithetical to the theme of accepting death. A world without it may become devoid of life as just the joys of living aren't enough. Without sorrow, consequences and death the existence is no longer "Life" you are no longer "living".
This theme even becomes antithetical to the idea of "multiverses" in that they often rob there narratives of consequences, flavour and meaning in a similar way.
I'm not 100% sure of this as there is a Quote from Aerith at the end of Remake "the voices role of his back like rain and when they are gone he wont feel anything", which suggests that his plan may well be very destructive.
Yeah, I love this approach...Aerith's clear materia has the potential to become either black or white, and Cloud is holding on to it (God help us).
@@Kean_Bean Wow...This. Buddhist and Hinduist motifs are abundant in all jrpgs, and FF in particular. Sephiroth reminds me of the god Shiva who withdrew into himself because of the death of his beloved, neglecting the creative workings of the world that demanded his divine attention..so much that even the highest God Brahma, the flow of creation itself became unable to act due to Shiva's self obsession. He turned to the goddess of femininity, Shakti who was reborn as a human and had to undergo immense trials to bring Shiva back to his divine duties.
In the end, Sephiroth is motivated by the burden of eternal loneliness. Aerith comments as much in Rebirth... He survives because of hate people feel for him, and would rather see everything destroyed than vanquish into oblivion, which to him is the epitome of being alone.
I completely agree with you. The OG was a masterpiece in itself. It was subtle and everything made sense within that story. But the same devices that made sense in the OG would NOT make sense in the FFVIIR trilogy. There’s literally no way Cloud could bury Aerith and move on at the moment. Thank you for articulating everything so beautifully
I think the ff7 remake trilogy has exceeded far and beyond for my initial expectation. Not that i don't have my doubt and even skepticism when it was first announced in 2015. Having played both remake and rebirth, i think kitase, nojima and nomura knew EXACTLY what they are doing, exploring the deeper meaning of the original ff7 even further, probably making it the most spiritual and deepest story that final fantasy has ever told. I can't wait for the part 3 to be released, to experience this incredibile journey and spectacular story telling.
So, everyone’s dream is literally their final fantasy. 🌟
that's beautiful
"Bid farewell to your dreams & behold the Final Fantasy" - Gilgamesh as he attacks with "Ultimate Illusion".
Love the transition from the Lost theme to Aerith's theme during the Moving On segment. thanks for sharing your talents with us, Josh.
Thanks!
There's one thing that I'd like to draw attention to: the final date.
I've watched a lot of these videos but not all of them. So maybe it's been discussed elsewhere and I haven't seen it yet.
In the final date, you have to make a series of 3 choices. I think 3 times. However, these choices don't matter because no matter what you choose, there is a fourth, unforseen, event.
This scene is then followed by Zack on the steps of the church, mulling over his 3 options, trying to decide. Then Sephiroth shows up as the 4th result.
I don't, as of yet, have a theory as to what this is trying to convey outside of the obvious: choice is an illusion.
I'm also coming to speculate that the rainbow light isn't about choice at all. It's simply a representation of the road not taken. So just a visual depiction of "What if I had done things differently?"
There are still some questions left as well. These are probably going to end up being potholes but they're worth pointing out.
If time travel isn't a thing, then why were there divergences in the first game? Things like Cloud not initially being part of the team on the second bombing run or Barret getting stabbed in Shinra HQ? Or even Sephiroth showing up earlier than he was supposed to? If there is time travel, then I'm guessing it will be similar to what was shown in Final Fantasy VIII.
There's also the missing Ex-SOLDIER in the beginning of Rebirth. We see our party being carried away by Shinra and hear a warning that the Ex-SOLDIER who was with them is still at large. I'm wondering if there are 2 Clouds or 2 Zacks in this world. Or if it's someone else like Genesis? Like I suggest, it's probably just a plot hole but it's an oddly specific one. I'm just wondering how that works in the context of that world.
The missing ex soldier is just the memory of an ex soldier that fought with Avalanche. That can be looked at as a means of throwing Zack into the mix, as he comes in right when they are looking for him and fits the bill cuz he is an ex soldier himself
the ex soldier part I see it could be like saying the worlds are merging and so stuff is getting weird. Like for example the radio talking about the tornado can be heard at kalm if you listen to it so that could be the reason. What I actually think and this is not really talked about is the role zack is going to play in the next part, if you notice the parts we play as zack what he is doing is he is mostly saying positive things to the sad "Biggs" so zack obviously is portrayed as a beacon of "Positivity" which could enhance his role to a more important one, maybe include him in the wutai war or something bcs I think Zack's postivity is going to play a role against Sephiroth's Grief
Really enjoyed this.
Thanks, I’m glad.
Thank you for this heart felt essay. It made me feel things when I was. .. lost.
Gorgeous video! Nothing gives brain candy better then beautifully edited and philosophical discussions on the deep emotional lore of ff7
Thank you!
Man, great video! Loved your line your thought and very well executed video. A lot of work has been put into this video and I appreciate it 👍
I think fighting the Harbinger of Fate was Sephiroths plan to take a precious memory of the planet away from Aerith: the power to pray for Holy...therefore actually changing fate itself since Holy would not be able to be summoned in order to fight Meteor. It also allowed for Cloud to be able to believe he could have a choice in saving Aerith, knowing at best it only creates a temporary world in the lifestream where she is alive. He needs Cloud "in between" worlds to get the true black materia, which he suddenly had in his pocket in the end even after giving it to Sephiroth. Aerith countered all this by giving Cloud the white materia to swap, which angered Sephiroth and he made it clear that it doesnt belong in the real world. He was well aware of the white materia being drained, hence why i believe that was his plan from the get go
Me likey
Great vid.
Road A would be my absolute (pardon the pun) dream ending. It betrays nothing, it delivers on both the themes from OG and the Remake trilogy, and it gives the finality that OG didn't, in an emotionally satisfying way.
I'm in the minority but I loved the nature of the flash sideways in Lost, and the finale is still one of my favourite episodes of television ever. I think a similar treatment for our FFVII family would be perfect tbh.
Ah, finally. Someone else whom is in the Sleeping World/Dying Dreams of the Planet camp.
If you played KH Dream Drop Distance, I think FF7re is doing something similar, that various dreams have become reality (awakened) after the Fate Divergences made new realities, real. Similarly Sephiroth and the Black Whispers seem to be consuming these Worlds like Nightmares and the White Whispers seem to be enforcing the World’s borders(fate) in order to protect these same dreams acting as Spirits. The brown whispers from remake are a grey in-between, Dream Eaters that can act as both Nightmares and Spirits, but were nonetheless protecting Fate
On a related note to “fate” I think the moral dilemma in FF7re is whether to hold on to the past, finding any way possible to keep it alive… or to move on, let go, and let the dead die. Sure you can mcgyver some conglomeration of dreams, memories and defied fates that kill the concept of death… but to do so is wrong and utterly unnatural, the very things Aerith accused Sephiroth of in part 1
There’s plenty of us. Check out @schrodingersbabyseal and @philipharts.
I just find it frustrating that people dismiss the potential of this story due to outside perspectives related to other IPs that have nothing to do with this kind of story; in short an incorrect lens.
There’s something truly beautiful with the Remake Project and it’s getting dunked on unjustifiably.
Could this be a case of Square expecting too much of their audience in 2024?
Yes. Unfortunately, people are dumber today than they were 27 years ago and FF7 is designed for an intelligent audience
I just realized certain cue in the FF7 Rebirth orchestral segements remind me of Hymn to the Fayth from FFX.
I really do not want this game to copy the show Lost. That’s my issue with this theory. I hope they have more creative people at Square. This would be a really disappointing way to finish the game. About as bad as the other theory with Cloud dying and sacrificing himself. Hope part 3 is better…
Such immaculate exposition. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! 😊
Facts, Jo outdid himself in this video man holy cow...I'm gaining so much knowledge and different perspectives watching this.
Beautiful and touching...but partial.They'll give us a lot more,and It Will be necessary,otherwise the cycle life-death as presented in the trilogy would never have the right meaning for ALL the main characters involved...The story Is about understanding,empathy,compassion and forgivness too.....The third part of this game Will give us many surprises
I'm looking forward to seeing what they plan to do. I just hope they don't piss on this beloved world and story in the end, like so many of these large AAA companies seem to be doing with their games. All I can say so far is, the first two games have been great. Hope the 3rd is the best of all.
As much as I would like for the story to go a different direction in the final chapter, I think this explanation makes more sense than some others and seems more in keeping with the original.
Personally, I loved the idea that this was actually sequel rather than a retelling/remake/remix/etc; that OG FF7 already happened, and that Sephiroth and Aerith in the lifestream, which seems to connect to all points in time, entered a tug of war - first when he attempted to ressurect himself foward in time in Advent Children, and again when he reaches backward to try and prevent his death and defeat as Aerith continually works to stop him.
But that notion gets messy and is less in keeping with the original message of FF7, as you addressed here.
I would like a ff7 prequel set when jenova comes to the planet.
This is why i'll always defend the fact that "This Trilogy is more FF7 than the Original FF7"
When The Promised Land played in Rebirth at the Forgotten Capital i started to cry. It was joy, nostalgia, and pure happiness. In that moment i realized that those days of my first playthrough of FF7 Rebirth were days i'll forever be grateful for being alive and being able to experience them.
As an OG FF7 fan and as a person who has a deep connection and feelings with this universe i have no words to express how much joy and happiness FF7 Rebirth gave me. Since 2015 i knew that Remake Project was going to be something truly special and this whole trilogy so far has been an experience of a lifetime.
That's why every time i hear fans saying that Rebirth is tearing apart and being an absolute disgrace to the original story of FF7 i think to myself "Did you get what FF7 is all about?" "You know what the Lifestream represents?" all what they can say everytime these metaphysical concepts begin to shine these people just say "it's Kingdom Hearts bs" "Nomura destroyed FF7 (Ignoring the fact that Nojima is the father of the FF7 Story)"
The way i see it, and a lot of more people, it's a work of love and passion in every single corner of this entire project so far. Cannot wait for Part 3 and the potential ending of the entire FF7 Compilation.
Love a Tim Rogers reference.
Bro a lot of people who say that rhetoric have 0 media literacy
There surely were a lot of things they wanted to put in the OG but with the limit of technology + player's understanding, it was impossible.
Beautiful analyzis!
Being initially a purist, these games have converted me to caring more about the character's hopes and dreams coming true, about the deepened spiritual exploration and meaning behind the story, about our heroes embracing life and eventually defeating their original fate, more than about having the same story unfolding once again.
In this sense I am very much leaning to your explanation of the flip side of the coin, that having a true happy ending, with our heroes surviving and thriving, and this probably even including Sephiroth's redemption and him eventually accepting his finality and of course with addressing the elephant in the room, Aerith's possible survival, after having generations of gamers griefing her ireversible death, will not hurt the original story, but enhance it by laying the emphasis on the the opposite spectrum of "life" instead of "death"
This would eventually close the cirlce of yin and yang, of life and death, of loss and happiness, of hatred and love and round up the story to the final conclusion of what makes the human experience meaningful by experiencing the contrasts of reality, where it is impossible to even describe the one, without it's opposite. And what a beautiful way it would be to end this journey on that note.
This is like the best ff7 video I've ever watched
I was happy to see how Sephiroth was together with Cloud...He look like a good guy, a good role model for cloud.... I still have many questions...for one..How did he get all that power he has????...but no of that matter...in the end I just want My Dear AERIS back!.....The creators decided to change the story..I am really hoping...on the third Cd game they bring her back and back together with cloud.. I adore those 2 together, I know this controversial, But I think Cloud and Tifa had something as kids..But Aeris...is different...I truly feel they belong together...I do feel they love each other..because they both accept each other as they are!...Great video..Thanks.
Funny you mention the whole ending at the expense of the casual gamer. Most of the casual gamers newer to the franchise were most open and recieptive to sorta what was being handed to them while most people experienced with FF7 were thrown for a loop. I legit had a double take watching a streamer that never played OG pointing out the Stamps and mentioning timelines and stuff. While people that played OG would go "WTF is going on?!" It's a really funny trend I noticed but it could also be youtube pushing the more keen eyed streamers forward since I do watch a lot of theories and stuff. XD
i love how the purists complain about nomura so much
do they even know that, if not for him, literally everyone but your party at the moment they were raiding midgar would die????
Loved your video, theres a lot of theories and analysis but this is the best imo. Im just wondering about the stamps with different breed of dogs. Are they made only to mark the difference between worlds/dreams/realities... and im not sure if its relevant but all of events which we can see are taking place in midgar and area, except the main timeline obviously, around the time of the reactor bombing and when sector 7 plate fell
@@EmiAla2123 Yeah I think just to help identity which worlds.
A lot of interesting philosophical contemplation on what it means to live and die. I have long wondered and thought about these topics, and for the (heh) life of me, I can not understand the resignation that people have about the idea of simply accepting death. Every second that were alive is a defiance of death. We’re constantly trying to deny entropy.
Medicine? Suspension of injury and illness that lead to death. Safety? Threat reduction to avoid death. Fitness and dieting? Habits to promote function and longevity to avoid death. All of our technology is geared towards it and now the full might of it will soon be used to create life extension and preservation technology.
No. I don’t accept death. And when people really examine themselves, they’ll realize they don’t either. We painfully and uncomfortably endure our loved ones dying, we have to negotiate with our grief until it loses some of its power over us. But if there were some way to bring our loved ones back or prevent them from dying altogether, we would do it in a heartbeat
That said, I’ll never understand the people who want to preserve the original depressing, reductive, myopic core of FF7’s theme.
Death is ok, really because you can’t fight fate.
It just isn’t true. We are collectively, over time, through our combined efforts beating entropy. Why the hell can’t our fantasy stories where magic and monsters and solar system destroying fireballs exist not allow us to defy death?
Some people really just can’t accept hope.
Some people find comfort in ways you don't.
Hope has nothing to do with death for me. The idea that we're all struggling against death doesn't really track when most of us are pretty apathetically floating through life, or when it's a blatant fact that we all will eventually die (not much to defy if it's a matter of time till it happens).
It's not a case of defying death (imo) or living forever, or even a long time. None of that matters and if we did have the ability to live forever, nothing would matter after enough time. What does matter (again imo) is what we do today, and when tomorrow is today, and so on. If you're kind or cruel or whatever else, that's all that really makes an impact in the grand scheme of things and that's not a bad thing. Our lives aren't undone by death, they just don't last forever. It's more important to me that I spend my time well than have a lot of it. And I personally find forced positivity, treating death/the negatives of life as taboo and so on patronising, somewhat selfish and utterly pointless. I find far more hope in acknowledging the reality of our circumstances and finding the space within that to make my time worthwhile vs finding hope in some blind idea that I won't have to die.
You talk as if everyone else is just in denial yet your comment reads to me like someone who can't accept mortality and is assigning some sense of right and wrong to subjective perspectives to support their own.
This was just my personal perspective but it's here to make a point, not everyone sees things how you do and that's not something to be judgmental about.
@@dommoore6180 I don’t know where you get the notion that my criticism of people that “accept death” is some moral failing from, but that’s not my intention if that’s not clear enough.
It’s a failure of imagination and an inability to deal with concept of terror management. I make explicit the thought that I don’t “accept death”, it’s not something you have to read into either. That’s not to say that I don’t realize and accept that we (humanity) don’t *currently* have an effective way to treat senescence or death yet. This is also something I expound on in the post you responded to.
You write as if I haven’t encountered and studied these (and I don’t meant to be offensive but it’s just the truth) very pedestrian philosophy you’re writing about when it comes to dealing with your own terror management.
So you treasure the finite things in life because they are finite? Cool, something like biological immortality doesn’t stop any of those things from being finite. You can still appreciate them for the same reasons.
None of what you’ve written contradicts what I wrote, nor does it really address it. If the examples I gave aren’t about staving off entropy and death, why do we engage with them? What’s the inherent value?
How much do you treasure all the time you spend brushing your teeth?
And if life is more precious the more finite, why wouldn’t One plan out the most effective and rewarding things to do with One’s life and decide to purposefully die immediately after achieving it?
Right now you would likely say you wouldn’t want eternal life, but also, if I asked if you wanted to die tomorrow, you’d likely say “no”. Moreover, barring an inescapable and unending pain or psychological distress, if I asked you that question every day for the next 50 years, I would wager you’d still say “no”.
And when you reflexively want to contradict me on this point, you won’t be able to do it without referencing precisely what I’ve already addressed.
“Why would I want that? eventually I’ll become old and frail, I’ll have lived through too much trauma, everyone around me will have died, boredom would be intolerable, etc etc.”
When you think all of that, please re-read what I wrote.
@@OmegaLogos "It’s a failure of imagination and an inability to deal with concept of terror management" - yeah see that's where you read like someone who can't accept mortality assigning right and wrong to subjective perspectives. At best it's pretentious and more realistically it just makes you look unable to deal.
I'm not scared of dying. I'm sure you with your generally pretentious attitude will claim that I'm lying, but I'm not scared of it. Maybe I will be when I'm on my death bed? Who knows. But right now, it doesn't scare me at all. So all this talk of "terror management"? Kind of amusing.
I didn't tell you I treasure anything, I said nothing would matter if we all lived forever and that I personally find more hope in knowing that I'll die but being able to make use of my time than I would in the idea of living forever, something that I don't want to do.
What I wrote was my personal perspective that differed from yours and as I said the point was to illustrate that your judgemental attitude to other people's perspectives on a totally subjective topic was ridiculous.
Again I didn't say I treasure anything. I generally feel that life is a good 90% suffering for a vast majority of people. That doesn't invalidate the good things but that's besides the point. I said that what I (or you) do each day is all that really matters in the end because that's what will have an impact, as opposed to just wanting to live forever because you don't want to die or lose loved ones.
I didn't say it was more precious because it wasn't endless. I said it wasn't endless. You're making a lot of stuff up here pal. As for the idea about planning your life out, because that's blatantly ridiculous. People don't all want to spend their lives doing specific things, most people spend most days just getting by.
I'm not going to get super personal but people wanting to die isn't remotely uncommon is it. Even if that want doesn't last for person x or person y. Again not everyone thinks like you do and not everyone is so set on not dying just because. I'd honestly question the sorts of experiences you've had in life if someone not being terrified of dying or even being alright with the concept is so unbelievable to you. There's far more important things than longevity.
"when you reflexively want to contradict me" - giving yourself a lot of credit. Alongside lines like "very pedestrian philosophy" and you being sure to mention that you've "studied". Yeah I went to uni too, it's not impressive, you're just pretentious.
Bottom line is, you're being highly judgemental of anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint on death, which is amusing since your viewpoint is wildly childish and reads incredibly fuelled by fear. If we all lived forever stagnation wouldn't begin to cover it. There'd be no point in anything for any of us after enough time. Nothing to build towards except our own satisfaction and once we already did it all, it's a time bomb waiting to blow. Nobody wants to lose their loved ones and yes most people will want to live rather than die most of the time. That doesn't mean that everyone does, it doesn't mean we should live forever and it doesn't mean living is the most important thing there is.
Assuming these worlds are a spiritual journey in the lifestream before death, I wonder what the point of an "alive" Biggs prominently featuring in Zack's worlds/dreams is. Not to mention why Biggs in specific was the only member of Avalanche to experience these worlds/dreams, when they all had unresolved personal baggage.
Also, why are characters that Zack had no relation to appearing, like Marlene, Kyrie, and Johnny?
@@sammon1415 I don’t think Biggs is alive there, I think Zack and Biggs are sharing the same experience together for whatever reason.
My favorite game of all time. Thank you.
This video is absolutely Amazing !
Robinson Gary Lee Joseph Gonzalez Gary
I agree highly with your multiple ending idea, I think thats the real new step to take to highten the rest of the FF7 story while definitively doing something with the new story concepts they added in.
Just as much as i don't want or expect the deaths in the original ff7 to be simply "erased", I also don't want this full saga to be about Cloud overcoming his grief, and ending with him having a normal life married with kids. To me, this is implicit after the original ff7, and never needed to be spelled out. A "reality check" at the end defeats the purpose in my opinion, of the epic stories and the fantasy. Of course the characters move on after the events, but this "after" is not the part that is worth knowing and seeing. The saga doesn't need anything more explicit, if the point is just that. I hope for something new, new revelations and epic events, otherwise i don't see the point ...
The ending is not important to me, in the sense of just having everything explicitly showed instead of letting us with the memories and we all go our ways, like after the original ff7. In the original, we witnessed the events, then Cloud went on his way, and we went on ours. We all keep the memories and deal with them how we feel best.
Fantastic work. You just got my subscription lol! I'm probably going to have to watch this twice.
I tend to compare the workings of this world to the brain itself. The actual body it controls, the conscious, the subconscious, the nice dreams, the intrusive thoughts, and the filters that allow thoughts, dreams, and nightmares to keep a balance with reality. If something were to poison or damage that brain, these filters might not work.
Another idea is thinking of this story as a stream or a river; one that flows, separates, and reconnects. Water can evaporate, condense, fall as rain, run off back into the stream, and of course be full of bubbles that expand and eventually pop. Not to mention all the things that sink and float in the water.
But lately I've been thinking about story telling and subversion. On this there are two questions I've been asking myself, and considering the gold you're giving out here, I wanted to share these:
Are the different methods of injection for Jenova Projects G and S (Genesis and Angeal being indirect, and the superior specimen Sephiroth being direct) the reason for the projects' respective results, or was it the mental state and actions of the carrier? Gillian, who decided to stick it to Shinra, marry someone outside of the company, and ensure her son gets a normal life, with the other boy who would go through something similar being nearby with a normal life too. And Lucrecia, in despair and guilt over the death of Grimoire, who shunned the man she loved because of this guilt, partook in an experiment that she might not have done otherwise? With Jenova's nature, I wonder if Lucrecia's regret was the perfect 'food' for Jenova to make her vessel.
The other thought: This story has one hell of a romance to it. Tifa and Aerith do a lot of incredible things for Cloud, and what a great friend he had in Zack. But if we're talking about doing things for Cloud, what about the person who raised Cloud and taught him what love is by example? Deep love that has nothing to do with romance, but a kind that allows a person to grow and one day make their own family.
Considering the opposite dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sephiroth's obsession with his parentage, what if the worst loss for Cloud was the first. How brutal was the death of Claudia Strife? Has Cloud all but forgotten her? Did Sephiroth lift her by the blade and throw her into the burning house? Is there another Sephiroth in the flames when instead of turning away from the audience, he advances?
While the relations Cloud has to his mother, Tifa (whom he thought died before the complex locked), Zack, and Aerith are all different, what if by not getting over the first and the worst, the next time is the first again, and again after that. Each time adding up to more and more feelings of helplessness and pain.
Has the incredible story with Cloud, Tifa, Zack, and Aerith led us to overlook Claudia Strife?
Will Cloud have to face the death of Claudia before he can see the deaths of Zack and Aerith?
Thank you for helping me cry again. The tears felt good.
Cloud is split across mutiple dimensions and time lines. One guy split mutiple ways. No wonder he is so screwed up.
Amazing video.
I think a lot forget to that the developers are making this the “ultimate ff7” story brining in all the books, movie, expanding story moments they just could not in 1997.
I hate Lost
I totally align with this view. The “less is more” crowd won’t admit that they don’t love Final Fantasy VII enough to really appreciate its intent.
🤦♂️
I love ffvii and it's intent. Which is completely different from that of the remakes.
@@unixtreme I don't know. Despite some additions with a little bit of remixing, the core narrative remains the same. The story, to this point, is still completely in line with the OG.
@@drewtheunspoken3988
Correct, we are being presented with context in the remakes.
The remake is just not good lol
Amazing theory and tbh something I agree with that's why I love the game so much!
I recently learned that the simplest answer is the way to understand what seems complex, but isn't. This isn't even the first time we've seen certain types of narrative decisions in FF. What Sephiroth plans to do isn't even the first idea a villain in FF wants, it's very similar to what Ultimecia wanted to do in the FF8 universe. And about Aerith, I don't know why they still insist that she's "alive somewhere", that doesn't make sense to me and even less so after Ultimania. What's clear to me in this trilogy is to instigate you with the power of choice and in the end deliver something you didn't want, but need to accept, even though before all this existed everyone wanted it to be the same as the original game. In recent years we've seen people feeding on fears and false hopes about "changes", but at the core of the work it's all the same thing. Now, in this waiting period for the last part, things are going the same way, people saying that the third part will deviate far from the original and so on, everything is the same, the same feeling and the same fears. What I think is that the third part will end in the most pragmatic way possible, with the same scenes that require an in-depth look, but that in the core it is the same thing.
Well said.
I lean towards, she is dead.... but
Its very likely we will experience a Dream of her living, which will interplay very closely with the theme of accepting death on a narrative and mechanical level.
Early game, we play as her dream, convinced she is alive.
Mid game, understand and come to terms with what is going on at the same time as Cloud.
End game, reject Sephiroth's plan of merging these worlds and prove we accept death is essential to life.
"Tearful Farwell" predicted by Cait Sith in loveless.
Maintaining the exact same story and series of events you predicted, only offering a slightly deeper reeding through the dream world B plot.
@@koosh88215 Do you have a link to that interview with Nojima?
@@Dreadful27 I've tried several times and it's not letting me send the link, it's from a site called frontlinejp and the article is Final Fantasy VII Rebirth post release interview, the quote is towards the very end
And it was Kitase who said that not Nojima, my bad for the incorrect info in my first comment that's not even here anymore lol
This is by far the best analysis I have seen on FFVII! Amazing!
Nice analysis. I just wish Zack and Aerith survived somehow and had their happy ending as well.
I don't think I like it. Everything is kick forward for the "great final game", where we leave all our expectations that they are going to do a good job. I am skeptical of that. With the information at hand, right now, they did a poorer job on the grief scenes. Will they make it better? Could be.
And here is the difference between us, while Nomura is around the writing room, I don't think they will.
My more cinical view is that, they wanted alternative universes and timelines (similar to FF13-3), saw the blacklash that shitpile was going to make to, let us not forget, their golden goose, and retconed a bunch of stuff. I will admit is very prettily retconed. Are the whispers still the representation of players who don't like the changes made? What are the "good" whispers then? Where did the crew fight this arbiter of fate? In a dream in the lifestream? That doesn't seem to be what is happening, according to the visuals on rebirth. Where were the "good" whispers in remake? they seem oddly missing for a story that was already planned out as much as they want us to believe.
Nah, I believe they are going to do a good job, when they deliver a good job. I have no reason to believe this will not end with "the power of friendship can bring people back from the dead, because we deserve a happy ending". But death is like that, it cuts peoples life short (doh!), it stops your dreams and future, it finishes your hopes, it is unfair and sometimes undeserving. For those who are left to collect the pieces is fucked up. That is why we grief. But just because one life is cut, doesn't mean life itself is cut. I do not think that the theme "fighting for life" is akin to "resurrect Aerith", I think is anathema to what we are trying to do here, just because we lost Aerith (and if she retains her consciousness in the life stream... I'll argue that we haven't lost her that much ), we cannot stop fighting, because other lives are at steak, and we can save those. I don't think it is about "earning your happy ending", but accepting what we lost, and moving forward, finding happiness and meaning after it. On the environmentalism side, I also believe the same, it is not about saving what cannot be saved, is about protecting what is still here, even thought we might have lost a lot, the planets life, what remains of it, is still worth the fight.
We might have lost a lot of lives, but if we protect the planet, other life will spur. Life will continue, until it stops, yeah, it will happen it may even be inevitable, but it doesn't need to happen now.
But alas! I don't think the writers room in FF7 are going to go with that, because Nomura is still around and "the power of friendship" is the only trope he wants to explore.
Didn't expect to hear about parallels between FF7 and LOST - two of my favorite series of all time - but wasn't disappointed. What a rollercoaster of emotions! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
FF VII reclaim
comparing LOST AND FF7 !?!? I'm fucking seated for the next hour
anyone analyze the linitial loveless play, when they are deancing, there is a dark and a light version, the dark version showing suffering with the light version showing a happy scenerio
Appreciate your work here. Somehow your channel avoided my attention and I'm glad i bumped into it bc your take on FF 7 Re series is the closest to my reception of the game. Huge fan of Lost series too )
That's such a deep and beautiful analysis. I like the 3rd road. Aerith is related to hope and wisdom, not denial. And she is the one who says the future can be changed. Tifa also asks if the lifestream can be strenghtened. Maybe there is a path where the Gi are accepted by the planet and help it regenerate without humanity dying. In the books, Barrett is on a quest to find other kind of energies instead of just fighting the use of Mako. This would be so satisfying and inspiring if the conclusion was building on this. Aerith herself maybe allowed to come back without conflict with the main theme because all of these characters have already experienced losses. They can grieve together Myrna, Claudia, Ifalna and so many people. One more death may actually be too much. Hope must be alive. And OG didn't go that far, Aerith's death was not leading Cloud to safe acceptance in the end.
Your theory/analysis makes the planet look like azathoth itself..... In lovecraft we are all azathoth's dream and when azathoth wakes up, we all cease to exist
Very well done! Thank you for this! Definitely deserves more views for all the work you put into this.
Man, I dunno why but I was emotional during the whole 1 hour
I subscribed to your views on the theme now. I can finally understand what are dreams
I can’t decide if the 59:59 runtime bothers me or satisfies me
@@ishade If it was 1:00:00 it would have intruded on the thumbnail text in small form even further.
Why aren't more people watching this wonderful video 😢
No multiple endings. Period. It’s a cop out. It’s one thing for dates or scenes but they need to not leave this game on a cliffhanger or super ambiguous. There needs to be some clear answers. Unlike the end of REBIRTH. But yet they can still give clear answers while still leaving the game open to more growth in the future
The way you do this is leave no questions about the future but leave some questions about the past.
Such a cool video, i really enjoyed, nice work❤
If they're having a post death lifestream dream sequence (or whatever you want to call it) when does this take place ? We have dirge of cerberus and advent children, which indicates a continuous story and nobody has died yet so the post death theory is confusing
Whenever Cloud dies in the future.
@@Joshiepoo2525 oooooooooh I gotcha
Could you please tell me where can I find these versions of themes: Tifa(Metaphysical Evolution 03:12) and Aerith(Dreams & Expectations 09:20)? Thanks
“Tifa’s Theme - Lifestream” and “One Last Date”
@@Joshiepoo2525 Many thanks!
Sooooooo it’s like final fantasy where it’s dream within a dream
I don’t think the main world is a dream but it’s certainly possible.
Great vid.
Liked and subbed.
Thanks!
I'm not a Remake/Rebirth hater. It's a decent game. And I'm a huge FF7 OG fan. I've played it a dozen times and pick it up every few years to relive it again. But anyone saying this is a faithful retelling of the original story is lying. This is a different game with the OG IP slapped on top of it. There are so many changes made on it that it's clear that the developers are telling you that not only are you not in the same universe, you're not even on the same planet. Not only have events been changed, but locations have been moved or removed entirely. Having Fort Condor taken off the continent and placed in an unreachable distance with the condor flapping it's wings to taunt you that you can't go there was like a big middle finger by the developers that this isn't the world that you know anymore. And they didn't just add multiverses, they added time travel. Even the Remake end game whispers descriptions tell you they're from the future. For sephiroth to even be fighting you requires him to know what the future in the other multiverses are and he's come back in the past to defeat you in this multiverse. So quit saying this is a "faithful retelling", because it's anything but so
Thank you for not being a ban wagon rider and being able to think for yourself. Everyone making all these analytical videos have no idea what they talking about and I think we are going to be disappointed bout what really is going to happen in part 3
I just hope the world we explore will not be also the lifestream in the end. It would suck if one of this world is not the "real" world just because it is a Remake. It really needd to be like Lost if they go this road wherr everything on the island happened. And I don t mean the og FF7 here but the "main" world.
i think shes alive
Yes Cloud, we know.
Is she also in the room with us right now?
To anyone reading this, please repent and believe the gospel! There’s a loving God who wants to know you and save you. He died on the cross and resurrected so we can be forgiven of our sins and be saved. Please consider the state of your soul! Believe in Jesus and follow Him so you may have salvation. Life is short, please make the right choice today!
This video didn't require 59 minutes.
So wordy
Awesome work. Great clarity. And thought provoking insights continue to abound.
Thanks for voicing your journey with this wild FF7 death dream that this ReTri project feels like its shaping up to be 🪽
Lost, Evangelion, The Matrix, OG FF7, this has happened before and it will happen again. This echo of the dream within the wombs at the origin of our making that had to die one day in order for the birthing into reality so we can ultimately bare the power that comes from awakening forgotten memories.
Excellent video, great work man. 🎉
Thanks!