This video will spoil the entire plot line of the original Final Fantasy 7. I have not played Rebirth yet, so I don't know how closely the Remake follows the original, but the video will undoubtedly spoil several key moments of the story for you if you have not finished either game yet.
Dude I'm ready for every version of anything you cover IDC what it is or if I ever heard of it. There just really isn't any other content creator I've found that scratches the itch quite like a FatBrett video.
I often wonder if the devs of dead space got some inspiration from FF7 because the moment I saw a necromorph I instantly thought about JENOVA like she can really be the matriarchal necromorph…..connected universe anyone??😂
My favorite quote about Sephiroth is "You know how they tell stories about someone and often they don't live up to them? With Sephiroth it's the exact opposite."
Sephiroth does all of the things that a great villain should do. He is like a literal checklist of all of the things that a great villain should entail.
The contrast between Sephiroth and Cloud extends to their identity crisises. Cloud loses his identity but, thanks to his friends, he is able to recover. Sephiroth also loses his identity, and embraces a lie, that Jenova is his Mother, that he is entitled to rule the world. He embraces this final fantasy (yep) so completely that eventually it completely overwhelms him, and whatever was left of the original Sephiroth is utterly and completely destroyed, sacrificed for the sake of power.
A much better narrative is that Sephiroth is just another victim to Jenova and Hojo. He died in Nibelheim and his entire legacy and honor as a soldier is being smeared because Jenova is wearing his body like a meat suit.
@@codynoth4183 Sadder, maybe. I like to think that the best parts of Sephiroth abandoned him, and attached themselves to Cloud instead, as Cloud values the things that Sephiroth claimed to value, back before Nibelheim. Not only that, but Sephiroth is aware of this transformation, that in his efforts to try to control Cloud, the human part of him chose an unremarkable human, rather than remain as part of him; and that just makes him hate Cloud all the more.
That and Sephiroth did spend 7 whole days, without sleeping, reading the research conducted on Jenova. Research that, mind you, misidentified Jenova as a cetra. That misinformed research, combined with approx 168 hours of uninterrupted consciousness, of course someone would go loony.
@@codynoth4183 Except thats nor really it at all. Sephiroth won out against Jenova in a battle of wills and now all parts of Jenova are puppets of Sephiroth.
Yeah i agree. Sephiroth is somewhat sympathetic, considering he didn't ask to be a science experiment with alien dna injected into him as a fetus. Sephiroth was even somewhat decent before he found out the truth and went psycho, which is all traced back to hojo. Not to mention, all the thousands of others hojo hurts with no remorse, and hojo creates all the villains, other than jenova, of course. but even then, jenova shoulda just been left alone and locked away but hojo had to be a f**kwit.
Still wish they kept hojos updated design from crisis core and dirge of cerberus instead of the remake look. He felt more unnerving as a clean scientist
I love when the villain has enough of a presence that you shudder just hearing about them. You don’t ever see him until later on in the game, but you hear so much about him that you don’t forget him. Sephiroth is one of the few examples of this that I can think of, and it’s done very well.
The secret of Sephiroth's success is the writer's restraint in keeping him offscreen. Allowing the drip feed of information to build up the mystique. But also not making him too irrelevant off in the background where you forget about him. His actions are usually offscreen but CONSIQUENTIAL. You always just miss him after it's too late to stop him.
@fecal_position6412 it really wasn't. The video touched on it but the gulf in strength between yourself and Sephiroth was very apparent in game. Initially you only had stories, but when you scrape past the Midgar Zolom only to find Sephiroth not only killed one but put it through a tree, you realize Cloud was not exaggerating. Sephiroth really is THAT strong. I don't understand why Cloud and friends are impressed by Sephiroth's ability to kill a big snake in Remake. Cloud has already defeated the metaphysical embodiment of fate and destiny. Why should anyone in the party be threatened by a big lizard? And it's because Remake couldn't help itself. It had to show its p*nties on the first date and leave nothing else to impress us with later.
20:48 If Sephiroth knew Hojo was his dad, he'd have gone insane much sooner. Knowing he's related that walking ball of grease would have broken his mind so hard Jenova could've overtaken his mind from the opposite side of the planet.
@@moruemourue9692 That's just a fan theory. Hojo identifies himself as Sephiroth's father, and no other character ever posits otherwise. Would be interesting if the third game indicates otherwise (no talks of Sephiroth's dad in Rebirth, I just finished a 113 hr playthrough last night). That said, I wouldn't put Hojo above calling himself Sephiroth's father from the perspective of having "created" him, regardless of the actual genetics of the matter
@@SableWind I don't know what is funnier, Vincent getting cucked by Hojo of all people or the image of Sephiroth and Vincents edgy father-son time together.
Sephiroth is just one of those villains who is so compelling, EVERYONE has a shared respect for, wether it be from a point of inspiration, or outright fear.
not quite everyone. I played FFVII for the first time a few years ago, and was confused about what all the hype around Sephiroth was about. This may have been in part, because people kept saying he was one of the greatest villains of all time, which made me anticipate someone in the same league as Mithos from Tales of Symphonia (which is an unfair expectation for any villain). Pretty sure if I hadn't had people talk him up so much, I may have actually been impressed. I mean, I personally found Vayne and Cid from FFXII more interesting than Sephiroth, and I don't see nearly as many people singing that game's praises
The gradual way Sephiroth is introduced to the player is nothing short of brilliant, that along with the pacing of his backstory. From beginning to end you are drip-fed bits of information regarding who he is and why he became what he did. Sephiroth goes from a legendary war hero who seemingly died 5 years ago, to an artificially produced Cetra obsessed with taking the planet back from humans, to being part of Jenova itself; and finally the full story was revealed. Sephiroth is human. His parents are both human, his mother being Lucrecia and his father the mad scientist Hojo. While still in the womb, Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells by Hojo and that was why he was different from other people, why he was so powerful. To quote Sephiroth himself, "Ever since I was a child I felt different, special in some way but....not like this." In the end Hojo is the true villain responsible for most of the suffering in Final Fantasy 7, with Sephiroth being one of many victims of his cruelty.
Sephiroth invented the the gorgeous edgy nemesis trope and yet somehow doesn’t manage to fall into the trappings his contemporaries did. The Remake also added a dash of strange mix of angst and mutual pining between him and Cloud.
Because Sephi exists as long as Cloud is haunted by his memories. The moment Cloud dies at this stage, Sephiroth loses, so he is manipulating fate to keep Cloud alive, acting like a god in a world where their isn't one.. He needs cloud's help to fulfill his goals, either willing or unwittingly helping. its not Pining for, but a parasitical, abusive relationship; Cloud is a tool to be used and cast away. Just like in OG7. Also ya no one else can seem to get edgy characters correct. Sooooo many wanabe edgelords.
Have heard people saying they are disappointed how the story begins fighting an evil corp but moves to sephirot but to me sephirot also represents the results of what happens when the greed is left unchecked, a human built for the ambitions of others, same greed that lead them to experiment with jenova, giving raise to the apocalypse
He's a product thereof, and is on many ways, before Nibelheim, pitiable. He's a puppet himself, for the first section of his life- ironic, in regards to the accusations he makes towards Cloud, but that's almost certainly intentional. He's the fruit of a company pushing into matters beyond human control, for pure greed and rampant need. And the man he was before Nibelheim is, in a way, the first victim of the monster he becomes.
I agree with that. Sephiroth may be a force of nature, but he is one that Shinra unleashed. In that sense, FF7 is a classic “human makes thing they can’t control and pays the price for it” story.
I’m all but relieved by that switch. It’s not like we’re lack for games where the plot is fighting yet another Megacorp and I’m frankly sick of them. I like that Sephiroth offers a more global, cosmic threat beyond the scope of mustache twirling Captain Planet villains.
This part in 21:28 is still one of the goofiest scenes to me. Just seeing Sephiroth having to pull himself up to see in the port hole... This being of unfathomable power, having to clamber up to peak into the pod like a curious child makes me chuckle every time I see it.
The remake made me fall in love with Sephiroth all over again, reminding me why he is so iconic and one of my favorite villains in fiction. He is the Morning Star and Dark Angel of the FF franchise.
@@yourehereforthatarentyouI assume he’s referring to Lucifer Morningstar (The Devil/Satan) and for Dark Angel I assume those murderous soldiers of god, or that one tv show in the early 2000s
1:02:07 after Rebirth we can see this happening again. It's implied that Sephiroth's new reunion can now only be attempted thanks to the group beating the arbiters of fate in Remake. So once again, Sephiroth has manipulated his enemies to get exactly what he wants.
But Sephiroths' ambitions and goals are much more grand and vast this time. He doesn't just want to take control of the planet's lifestream, but he wants to take control of it across all worlds and timelines and take control of other planets with lifestreams as well.
One of the best things that came from the prequel Crisis Core was highlighting Sephiroth's humanity. We learn he did care about people and their lives. Even giving Zack time off to see Aerith knowing it how much she meant to him. It pairs so well with the core game to the point it almost felt natural and they planned it out from the beginning. How losing Genesis and Angeal was basically him losing any attachments to his humanity and the only family he ever had.
Another cool thing about Sephiroth is that he not only is a dark reflection of Cloud, but the other party members as well. Aerith, for example, is pretty much everything that Sephiroth initially believes about himself: a descendant of the Cetra race, chosen by the planet. Barret and Sephiroth both hate Shinra for what they done to the planet and themselves, but Sephiroth wants to kill all of humanity, whereas Barret limits himself to Shinra instead. Red was experimented on by Hojo like Sephiroth was. Cid, Vincent, and Cait Sith were former employees of Shinra that were wronged by them like Sephiroth. Tifa is similar to how Sephiroth is in Crisis Core, in which both are forced to watch as their friends descend to madness as a result of Shinra’s actions. The biggest difference between Sephiroth and the party is how they choose to deal with their traumas and the path they take.
The library scene on onward was masterfully created to help peoples understand what was going on with him in rebirth. I hope you do another video talking about his character in advent, remake and rebirth with how much of a manipulative villain he becomes instead of the typical physical.
I wonder... And this is just a thought. Perhaps the reason why Sephiroth is silent during the final battle, is because he is still dead. He died at Nibelheim, and his soul entered the life stream, but the jenova cells took what was left of him and regenerated his body. The Sephiroth we see through the game is all Jenova, the mad and insane ramblings come from a Jenova clone of Sephiroth. I might be wrong as I haven't beaten the game in a while, but does the Sephiroth from the crater say anything at all? Maybe... What we fight at the end isn't Sephiroth the man, but the fully realized successor to Jenova, the god among mortals and destroyer of worlds? And... Well, at this point, since we killed Jenova, prior to fighting Sephiroth, there is nothing more to give him direction. Besides, Sephiroth was a chameleon, he adopted the philosophies and identities of those he viewed as family. When he worked for shinra, he was the greatest soldier. When he thought he was an ancient, he adapted to become the Cetra's avenger. When he realized he was the successor of Jenova, he became the calamity of Terra. Sephiroth never had an identity, besides being mentally broken and scarred. So the final true Sephiroth, has no dialogue because he has no identity anymore as he is subject to the life stream. All he knows is calamity, and for someone who relies on others to give him purpose. He was never able to conquer the life stream.
I admit, this is as tenuous a theory as any regarding Sephiroth's character. Most of it relies on Jenova being the dominant party. But perhaps... In a tragic way, it displays the story of Jenova as a mother, desperately trying to bring back the only true family she has. Sephiroth died after finding Jenova, what if, this whole story was just Jenova trying to bring her boy back? An alien, but worried mother fighting against the life stream for the only person who loves her as family. So she parades around using his image, leading to the events where Sephiroth's true body would be bathed in the life stream and hopefully regain his soul, and inherit her mission, to become a calamity.
@@swordscion6212This on relies on the headcanon that Jenova even has motherly instincts. It has a feminine form but that simply could be the form it took after arriving on Gaia to blend in and slowly begin draining the planet. Jenova is a parasitical alien from space after all.
Sephiroth never wanted to avenge the ancients (that was more clouds "testimony"), more likely he found out he was "related " to Jenova and basically gave up on humanity
What I thought was truly crazy is the first time Sephiroth's name comes up is when Cloud tells Tifa he wants to be a hero like Sephiroth on the water tower. Cloud idolized him.
This is a thoughtful video. An interesting watch. For the people saying 'But it was all Jenova!', well - I suppose it depends on how much store you set by the ultimanias, but Ultimania Omega states flat out that Sephiroth was in control of Jenova, not the other way round. Not that I think the source material of the original game suggests anything differently though. It's pretty clear in the OG that Jenova is his meat puppet, not the other way round. The 'cosmic horror' bit is spot on. In keeping with that, the evidence for Jenova even being sentient is pretty limited. I mean I think it's pretty obvious that Jenova is based on The Thing, and I don't think The Thing is sentient. It's cunning, but ultimately an organism of instinct. But really the reason I don't like 'Jenova did it' is because it reduces one of the best video game villains of all time to a cipher, supposedly on behalf of an actual cipher who, curiously after more than a quarter of a century, still has absolutely no characterisation. It reduces Sephiroth to Jenova's level - a nullity. He is so much more than that.
Or perhaps that is the greatest irony of Sephiroth. Revered badass who still in the end of it all is not really anything else than glorified parasite. Whether Jenova or Sephiroth is in control does not matter, they both ride for same function. Like Shinra was the leech sucking planet dry for greed, Jenova for instict , Sephiroth did the same for delusion.
if jenova was only a creature of instinct and not actual intelligence or sentience how could she have been so catastrophically damaging to the actual cetra or the planet for that matter?
@@viper-the-great Not sure I understand the question. I mean... have you not heard of the black death? Or the Bronze age collapse? Of course it's possible to have massive civilisation-level devestation which doesn't have someone centrally directing it. You don't even need to step into fantasy hypotheticals on that one, you just need to look at actual human history. The Cetra were devestated twice over because Jenova came on the back of a meteor impact which left a crater literally the size of Midgar. That is a big impact, and it would have had global consequences.
@@viper-the-greatI'm not sure I understand the question. I mean, you've heard of the black death and the bronze age collapse, right? Of course civilisation-level catastrophes don't need to be directed by someone. You don't even need to get into fantasy hypotheticals there, you just need to look at human history. Jenova was partly so devestating incidentally because it came on the back of a meteor impact which left a crater the size of Midgar. That impact would have been globally devestating in of itself, not just the immediate impact but also the impact it would have had on climate for years.
49:47 Sephiroth's obsession with Jenova and belief that she's his mother reminds me of Silent Hill 4's Walter Sullivan who was convinced by the Order cult's Dahlia Gillespie that he could be reunited with his mother if he committed the 21 Sacrements ritual murders. She was actually just using him as a backup plan to bring back the Order's god.
I've always seen Sephiroth as an extremely tragic villain, born of an equally tragic misunderstanding, who kills what in other circumstances would be a sister figure to him, the daughter of professor Gast, Aerith, just because they're on opposite sides. The true, revolting villain of FFVII will always be Hojo for me. So many of the other games misinterpret Sephiroth's character in a fundamental way by making him evil "just because", and because he's popular. I can't wait for you to cover the rest of my favourite game of all time. Edit: to answer your questions about JENOVA, the way I've always felt about the final battle (and most of Sephiroth's appearances ingame) is that it's the other way around. JENOVA is in control, and was always in control ever since the end of the events of NIbelheim. Sephiroth's real body never left the crater, all we've seen of him were bodies created out of JENOVA cells (which we can see everytime Sephiroth attacks us, like in the ship to Costa del Sol and after Aerith's death and we don't fight him, but JENOVA) and while he was partially in control of the objects (most likely JENOVA's tentacles) through which he summoned the aforementioned facsimiles of himself, at the end she simply didn't need him anymore. Sephiroth's mind was already damaged by the revelations he suffered in the library, and even further when he was thrown into the Lifestream directly when "killed" by Cloud. Sephiroth freed JENOVA from the Shinra building because his weak sense of self, his need to attach his identity to SOMETHING, anything, made him the perfect host for JENOVA's will. He did it because he was compelled to. All he ever said he wanted was what JENOVA wanted. When he summoned Meteor, he was equally silent and unresponsive. At the end he says nothing because JENOVA, having reached her SYNTHESIS status, is in full control. He lived and died serving and loving a "mother" who couldn't have possibly cared less about him. I would love to know your newer or revised interpretation if you come back to this topic, however.
@@Ashendrot it doesn't. Anything Sqenix did after the Squaresoft days differs quite a bit from the source material. I said "other games" but what I meant is "other material", in general, after almost all the original team left.
Yeah, that's the double twist, the original sentiment, "Sephiroth died five years ago" is correct. He was genuinely a great guy, despite his horrific upbringing he's kindhearted, selfless, dedicated and modest, a true hero. He has every reason to be something like Homelander but he's not, him fighting for "the bad guys" is not a fault of his character, rather the propaganda he's been fed his whole life. That goes for a lot of Shinra, they really run the full breadth from complete monsters like Hojo and President Shinra, to great people like Sephiroth and Reeve (Cait Sith's pilot). Until JENOVA finally gets a hold of him and he dies soon after, that is. Remember that JENOVA is very openly inspired by The Thing, and is such a master of shapeshifting and mind control it killed almost all of the Cetra, and Sephiroth really is a perfect candidate on account of his JENOVA cells (Same as Cloud, as we see in e.g. That Aeris scene). It's never explicit but it's not too unreasonable to conclude that since Sephiroth fights for Shinra and was raised by Hojo, he is more susceptible than most to propaganda and mental influence, add mommy issues to that, another thing that's merely implied (raised by Hojo, not raised by Hojo and Lucrecia) and how JENOVA often misled the Cetra by appearing as loved ones, and it's no wonder he was controlled. After that it's all JENOVA, wearing the disguise of Sephiroth (or on one occasion, Tifa, when Cloud hands it the black materia), from the very first encounter in the Shinra HQ onwards. That's probably why Cloud is let out, too. Cloud has JENOVA cells and needs rescue just like the main body, if Hojo's Reunion Theory is correct which it appears to be. JENOVA has no reason to suspect Cloud will put up such a fight when Sephiroth was so easily controlled. The only possible exception is the very last battle/interactive cutscene in the Lifestream, that may actually be Sephiroth but it's hard to say. Is there even a separation between Sephiroth and Jenova at that point? Jenova is clearly rebuilding Sephiroth's body in the Northern Crater, but is anything of Sephiroth's mind even left at that point?
@@Ashendrot AC is a retcon, as it is a new team with different design priorities. Lots of lore changes, Sephiroth being one of them. But you can sort of square the circle at least if you squint, and keep it somewhat consistent with the original, if you say Sephiroth/JENOVA is Kadaj doing what Vincent does with his limit breaks, Galian Beast, Death Gigas, Chaos and so on. With this interpretation, its possible Sephiroth/JENOVA could crystallize into a Summon Materia down the line, like Ramuh, Ifrit, Bahamut and so on, but it is well and truly dead, just powerful enough to not get fully dispersed by the lifestream, thus able to crystallize into Materia.
@@albertnonymous9759 RIGHT! Man, I can't believe I forgot the fake Tifa in the Northern Crater! That, too, is pretty much a smoking gun proving JENOVA pulls every string. Sephiroth's influence stays in name but even in the end, what Cloud defeats is the Sephiroth inside his mind, and it's a battle he can't lose since he has grown as a person and shed his false Zack persona. Man, I gotta replay FFVII.
I like your theory that Sephiroth is able to mind control Cloud because of his willpower and Cloud's weak mind. However, I don't think that's mutually exclusive from the Jenova cell explanation. Those two explanations can work together and compliment each other. In fact, I'm not sure the willpower explanation works without the Jenova cells. One can't just control someone's mind through force of will alone. There has to be some sort of fantasy mumbo jumbo to justfiy it too.
Somewhere in the Shinra Mansion library it's written that the third dose of Mako protects them from Jenova cells or something. Zack had gone through the full process while Cloud was incomplete and left in a catatonic state. When he falls in the Lifestream in Mideel that is when he gets the 3rd dose, if I remember right. Wisdom from RPGamer summarized this up perfectly years ago if that article is still around anymore.
Ah, found it: "The journals in the adjacent library provide our explanation. I must infer from this editorial, and countless others like it, that most gamers did not take the initiative to search the bookcases in the back. They describe the escape and subsequent pursuit, but they also show that while Zack did not experience a reaction to JENOVA treatment, Cloud did. We discover that the soldiers let Cloud go, (they say he “escaped” in the report), because of his “diminishing consciousness.” He’s not considered a threat, because his treatment was incomplete. (Didn’t you ever wonder why Cloud had glowing eyes, even though he was never a SOLDIER? There’s your answer.)... He is subjected to experimentation that leaves him physically and mentally instable. We have no idea how long he was kept in the basement, so there’s no real way of measuring the damage done. And unlike Zack, Cloud has a reaction to JENOVA-in fact, he’s SO reactive that Hojo takes him to Phase II of the experimentation! (Unfortunately, Phase III grants stability and conscious control over the JENOVA-and Cloud escaped before he could be given the third injection.)...This explains Cloud’s helplessness. He’s two-thirds of a Mako experiment, people. He’s completely subject to outside interference. His cells are incomplete. He can’t consciously control them; his body lacks the chemical stability to do so. He’s unaware they even exist in the first half of the game! Faced with JENOVA, Cloud is virtually powerless to exert his own will. Only in situations of extreme duress can Cloud force his body to obey his commands, rather than JENOVA’s. (This speaks VERY highly of Cloud’s physical and mental discipline, because according to Hojo, Cloud shouldn’t be able to exercise free agency at all.) Keep in mind that none of what I’ve said so far is opinion-I’m going off solely what the game provides. But there’s still one question left unanswered. Why is Cloud able to reject Sephiroth’s control at the end of the game, if it wasn’t simply psychological? Our answer lies in the northern crater. After Cloud collapses when he realized he cannot remember how he joined SOLDIER, Ultima Weapon wakes up and starts going berserk. This causes the crater to collapse, and the companions barely escape-Cloud does not. The party flees, and eventually makes its way to Mideel, where they find Cloud washed up on shore, babbling incoherently. (Hmm... does this seem familiar?) When Tifa takes him to the resident doctor, he’s diagnosed with Mako poisoning. In fact, it’s so severe that the doctor says Cloud should not have survived. Now, Cloud is one tough SOB, but that’s not why he pulls through. He already had Mako in his bloodstream from the earlier experiments. News flash, ladies and gents: Cloud just got his third injection."
There's an almost throwaway line in Rebirth when you're in Cosmo Canyon where the group is discussing Sephiroth and Barret says something like "If Sephiroth is trying to save the planet then why are we fighting against him?" That's when Cloud quips back, "Its not that Sephiroth wants to save the planet that's the problem, its how he wants to do it." That's the essential ethic that makes every villain great. Its the ethic of that the ends always justify the means that makes a would be hero into the most horribly cruel, spiteful, vindictive, Faustian villain.
Sephiroth has never really cared about the planet, though. Only himself and his "mother". After the Nibelheim incident, that is. Before that, his brain functioned somewhat normally. He intended to sacrifice the entire planet in order to attain quasi-godhood, after all.
@@djx7134 My comment wasn't so much about Sephiroth in particular as much as for what makes for a really compelling villain arc. Cheap villains have really weak and obvious moral problems, their ends are obviously evil as are their motivations. Compelling villains are compelling precisely because what they're doing comes from the desire to want some good end. They're trying to save something they love. They're trying to preserve some good nut in the most heinous and abhorrent ways. Or improve something that is good but they believe that they can make it "better." It's the difference between villains like Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, or Thanos vs whoever that weak idiot villain from Wonder Woman 2 that Pedro Pascal was supposed to be. Sephiroth is the epitome of the Luciferin archetype, like Morgoth in the Silmarillion. As shown before their arrival at Nibelheim, Sephiroth gave every indication of being an honest, forthright, honorable, well-balanced, and generally nice guy who had a deep sense of humor and right and wrong. Sephiroth still believes what he's doing is good and righteous. Where he falls is that he completely mistakenly believes that he's the heir of some sort of divinity when he's simply a human who's deluded himself into believing that he's something he's not, but because of the machinations of Hojo has been granted the ability to tap into powers that he doesn't have any business being allowed to tap into.
@@richvestal767 Is that really correct, though? Pre-lifestream, probably. After, he had direct access to all the information in the world, more or less. And he still chose the darkest, most evil and selfish possible route. I guess you could argue that Jenova had more influence upon him than it appears at first (he suddenly adopted her entire lifecycle out of nowhere, after all, despite this conflicting with all that he previously believed about himself and the world). But I don't think he was misguided or deluded at all by the bombing of reactor 1 and beyond. He 100% knew what he was doing. He knew everything except for small stuff like Hojo being his dad, possibly. At that point, I doubt he'd give a damn. Talking about Sephiroth is almost like trying to discuss three separate characters while referencing the same name. There's normal human Sephiroth (I don't agree that he was somehow not human just from the procedure he underwent in utero), who was actually well-adjusted considering the lifestyle he was forced into. Then he had the psychotic break and his personality underwent a dramatic transformation in like 1 week. This was when he was deluded and arguably insane. Then there's lifestream Sephiroth. The line between him and Jenova is a little difficult to discern.
I have a pretty good answer to the fantastic Jenova synthesis question poised at the end. Which i feel fits with the eatablished lore and the thematic points brought up in the video. Come with me here. This will take a minute to go through. Its pointed out when Aerith dies. That what makes a person isnt just their life energy, its who they were, their thoughts, feelings, motivations. What have you. The Jenova we see, shes been dead for millennia, biologically alive, sure. But her own life essence was long since exstinguished. But through Shinra tomfoolery. Nicking her cells, pumping her corpse full of Mako, what have you. You could stretch the definition of "alive" pretty far, especially in a setting like this. Her cells are certainly alive. And pumping through Sephiroth, Cloud, and half of SOLDIER among many many other places. Jenova also tricked the ancients initially by mimicing their loved ones, people they cared about, people they had a strong emotional connection to, but its stated it happened when they got close to her. So when the Jenova sample first wakes up in Shinra HQ, its not Sephiroth who woke it up. Its Cloud. By being close to it, Cloud who too, is chock-full of Jenova cells, living Jenova cells. If we make one wild assumption that i believe is kinda backed up in both ff7 and the exstended games and movie and stuff based on it. (Please feel free to fact check me on this if im wrong on this, im going from memory) Jenova cells, even when they enter the lifestream, share a connection. So Cloud, in Shinra HQ, being close to the...soul dead? For lack of a better term. Mindless husk of Jenova. It mimics his mind. And because Jenova has no conscious will left. It doesnt pick a calculated person to mimic. It just goes for the strongest emotional connection. And his mind has the strongest emotional tie to Sephiroth. He idealised the guy since he was a kid, and the dude slaughered everyone he knew, burned his village to the ground and slashed Tifa across the chest. Even with his memories all messed up. Id imagine Cloud would have a hell of an emotional response to Sephiroth. The same guy, lest we forget. Clouds last memory of, before beating him in the reactor was the guy screaming and blinding about getting even with Shinra. So the Jenova mimic, now acting and thinking from the logic of Clouds version of Sephiroth, does just that. Goes and gets even with Shinra. The whole way through the first half of the game. The Jenova Mimic isnt doing things because Jenova would want to, or even because Sephiroth would want to. It acts on the intention of what Cloud thinks the real Sephiroth would do. Once the real Sephiroth is revived. Its not Cloud, but he, who has the strongest collection of Jenova Cells. So the mimic latches onto his mind unconsciously. Aaand the person Sephiroth has the strongest emotional connection with....is Jenova, admittedly a fictionalised Idealised version of her. But still her, in a sense. So now, the Mimic is emulating a fake version of itself, while still technically being itself. The best example i can think to give, would be like an actor, with a very carefully crafted public persona, playing themselves in a movie. The Jenova we fight at the end of FF7. Is just as the name implies. Its a synthesis. Of both the remains of the real Jenova, and Sephiroth's mental version of what Jenova "the mother" should be, mapped onto it. Jenova Synthesis. To quote tropic thunder. "Im the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude"
Unlike Cloud, Sephiroth didn't have his close friends with him to pull him back from the brink, those guys were either dead or messed up by related events.
I’m almost 34. Didn’t play ffvii til 2024. Everytime I hear a new perspective on the plot, the more fascinating it gets. Truly a classic with so much to examine and analyze!
I didn't play FFVII for the first time until 2008, about 11 years after it came out, so I already knew about some of its major plot twists, like Aerith's death. But hearing Fatbrett go into detail about why her death is so tragic still made me feel sad even though I already knew before playing FFVII that it was an infamous moment in video game history.
"This is the first time we see Sephiroth outside of a flashback, the first time we see him in the present day." Looks like SOMEBODY forgot about the ship to Costa Del Sol... In all seriousness though, great video, great analysis!
That's what I was thinking too! But then you open yourself up to the "well that's technically not him", but then again "well that's technically not him" either😂😂
That was Jenova, not Sephiroth. Sephiroth is only actually present in FF7 3 times in the whole game. You see him in the Nibelheim flashback, you see him when he is encased in mako/materia in the Northern Crater, when Cloud gives him the black materia, and you see him in the very end, deep in the Northern Crater for the final fight of the game. Every other time you see him in the game, you are just seeing a piece of Jenova taking on Sephiroth's appearance to fuck with Cloud and encourage Cloud to retrieve the black materia and bring it to Sephiroth's real body the Northern Crater.
@@SableWind The degree to which you have missed the point is immense. Yes, most times you meet Sephiroth, it's Jenova; but I gave a direct quote from the video which says that the encounter in Nibelheim is the first time you meet Sephiroth in the flesh; even if both I and the maker of the video know it's not the 'real' Sephiroth, that's not the point. Also, really, for all intents and purposes Jenova IS Sephiroth, since at this point its pretty much acting as an extension of his will. Jenova talking to you as Sephiroth is likely no different from what the real Sephiroth would say if he was there.
@@kilimachevsk623 I'm guilty of reading comments before I finish the video, didn't realize that's what you were referring to in your comment. Meant no disrespect.
Honestly I hope it is revealed to be this and from my opinion it would fit well enough. But it turning out that it’s been jenova running the show this entire time would be just fine a reveal. She made her move at sephiroths most vulnerable. She’s manipulated him into seeing her as his mother. She took the earths greatest champion and made it her destroyer. I would like to see sephiroth come to his senses before he loses more than he already has.
Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship is probably my favourite Hero vs. Villain bond from all the games I've played. Cloud was essentially a nobody, Sephiroth didn't even know who he was until he confronted the party. This goes past the stereotype where the villain simply acts like the hero is not worth their time and feigns ignorance. Because Sephiroth simply doesn't know who Cloud is. Then by the time the game ends, Sephiroth now has a geunuine interest in Cloud, this supposed nobody who should be under his control has just defeated him in both body and mind. Then AC comes around, Sephiroth lives on inside Cloud's memories, and when they fight again there is a vendetta between the two, a true rivalry born. Now the Remake series depicts Sephiroth with knowledge of future events. Now he knows who Cloud is from the beginning, and his obsession with him has continued throughout this altered iteration of the timeline. Even stating that he will not allow himself nor Cloud to end.
Your video essays are so intriguing and you transition so smoothly between each topic! This gave me a lot to think about how the Remake series is writing Sephiroth. I'm hoping you'll do another one of these when the Remake series is over!
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." -Mewtwo Sephiroth has a choice after learning he was created and not born. He could have chosen to accept his creation and use the power he had to help rather then harm like he did in the beginning but he chose to do different.
1:05:07 That scene has made me wonder for years WTF is Cloud? A level 1 Shinra Guard tanks the Masamune stab and then Hulk tosses the highly trained eldritch horror that is Sephiroth. My head canon is Cloud has some degree of telekinetic power, displayed in his ability to use massive swords and from his limit breaks, such as Blade Beam, Climhazzard, Meteor Rain and of course Finishing Touch. These limit breaks display a force projection power far beyond the Ki abilities of Tifa and Yuffie. He doesn't even summon real meteors, it looks more like he gathers together debris in the area, compacts it and launches it at the enemy at high speeds.
From what I understand (and I could be wrong here), Cloud was actually already extremely strong and skilled with a sword but failed his entrance to Soldier for other reasons. Without receiving mako injections, he was already strong enough to pick up and wield Zack's buster sword which is a massive feat by itself right there. It wasn't that he wasn't physically strong, it was that he lacked mental strength. When he tanked the masamune stab, he had already effectively mortally wounded Sephiroth with a surprise attack from behind with the buster sword so Sephiroth was already very weakened at that point and Cloud got an adrenaline boost from his anger at seeing everybody in his hometown wiped out.
Talking online with so many recent fans who think they understand this story but have such a literal reading this is a breath of fresh air. So much of it is ambiguous, open to interpretation, operates on multiple layers, and yes is intentionally unknowable
@IceTenjho11 You really know nothing about Sephiroth. A person who has demigod abilities and now confirmed to control and create timelines and you're trying to compare him to a flop character like homelander is fucking hilarious.
@@elizabethchint2391I mean yeah, Sephiroth is leagues more powerful than Homelander could ever be, but OP’s got a point. They were both treated as less “human” and more “product”
I’m not saying he’s not powerful, I’m saying their situations are similar. They both were created by a company. They were both robbed a childhood. They both seeked a new identity, trying their best to feel superior to others, claiming to be gods. But in the end of the day, they were products. Just another victim of Vought and Shinra.
My Interpretation is always connected to what to me are the key messages on Shinra (Capitalist Critique/ Environmentalism) and Cloud (Identiy). Cloud, in pretending something he isn't represents a pretty common feeling that many feel (Especially men in regards to identity and what "men should be like") Having to pretend, fake it til you make it, feelings of inadequateness and being a failure. Sephiroth on the other hand, quite literally crafted by the status quo and the systemic oppressiion (Represented by Shinra) What I found really intriguing in Rebirth (Only tiny spoiler) is that little line Hojo gives about what a Hero should be and how he has to look, it really fits in amazingly with what Sephiroth is, a blank slate of a person, in fact, not even really human, but told, raised and bred to be what he turned into, a War hero, someone everyone looked up to, who was gorgeous and fit right into the narrative Shinra (The dominant power in that society) wanted. This obviously fostered the feelings of being Special into Sephiroth, but he wasn't really, everything that he was told is that he was special, a war hero, but he knew something was rotten and wrong about that, only to delude himself deeper into the false promise of actually being special, a cetra, and not the perverse creation of unfettered desire to control and expand by a totalitarian Company. This is really the counter opposite of Cloud believing he is not special at all, deluding himself into being someone he thought better,, while deep down his empathetic, caring, anxious and shy self was always present and in turn is why everyone grows to like Cloud, while Sephiroth entirely gave in this false narrative that was spun to him, and in this delusion of being special wanting more and more. I am ranting a bit, I never really ordered these thoughts and its more of my personal interpretation of this very interesting dynamic between Sephiroth and Cloud, that while always antagonistic, had this air aboout it that we should see these two characters as two sides of the same coin in terms of how they struggled with their very identity.
Fantastic Video! I'm really looking forward to your Cloud character analysis as well. The Identity crisis element is the real key to understanding what made the Cloud vs Sephiroth rivalry so compelling beyond just the classic Hero vs Villain tropes. It's what really makes Sephiroth the hero's shadow in this story. (Something that I think the Compilation and Remake titles have lost along the way.) You don't see this aspect of Sephiroth discussed as much, but I feel that it's absolutely CRITICAL to understanding him as a villain. Pre-Nibelheim he is led to believe that he's just "special". That he earned his status through his superior battle prowess. He was just so much better than the rest. He was practically untouchable, and he and everyone else knew it. But at this point, we can still see this as primarily Shinra's fault. That by treating him with such importance and high status that they massively inflated his ego. However... During the Nibelheim incident he's confronted with the possibility that he actually might just be an experiment. That he might not have earned his status as the greatest SOLDIER ever purely through superior talent and skill. That he may have been genetically engineered to be that way from birth. This moment shattered his identity, but lucky for him, he found professor Gast's (inaccurate) research that allowed him to believe that he and Jenova were Cetra. Something that would allow him to claim that he was not just superior to all of his peers, but to all of humanity. Basically, when confronted with the idea that he might not be "the best of the best" based on his own efforts, he latched on to the first piece of evidence he could find that would still allow him to believe he was superior to everyone else... and then he instantly made that his new identity. And then he does the exact same thing, AGAIN, when he drifts through the life stream and sides with Jenova. But this time it's a new justification that allows him to believe he's not just superior to all of humanity, but all living things in the world. As he decides to absorb the very essence of their being into himself. Like a Vampire sucking the life blood of an entire world. It's just very clear to me that even if you see certain aspects of Sephiroth's origin story as sympathetic/tragic, the real purpose of him as a Villain is to be a symbolic representation of completely unchecked ego/Narcissism. In contrast, when Cloud's identity is shattered by Sephiroth at the Northern Crater, the only way he can recover is when Tifa eventually helps him to pick up the pieces. With her encouragement he's able to remember and accept that he never made it into SOLDIER, that he wasn't special or superior compared to his peers. He had to check his ego and accept himself for who he truly was. The sad part is that Sephiroth didn't have someone like Tifa in his life at that critical moment who could relate to him and steer him back on the right path. So he ultimately chose the path of Ego/Selfishness, because that's how he was raised to be.
I believe this is what actually gives the Cloud vs Sephiroth rivalry it's thematic depth. (Which imo has been lost in the Sequels/Remakes). When faced with the idea that their sense of superiority was built on lies, one of them kept clinging to the idea that he must still be superior to others somehow, and became the villain. But the other acknowledged that his feeling of superiority was just masking his insecurity, and he accepted his own weaknesses as a part of his identity and became the hero. And in the end, the weaker one who was actually able to check his ego surpassed the stronger one who couldn't accept anyone else as an equal. But I feel like this core thematic point has been lost on like 80% of the fanbase due to the characters' portrayals in the Compilation, Kingdom Hearts, and Remake media. So many fans getting into FF7 now just seem to think: "Sephiroth has always been obsessed with Cloud since he lost to him at Nibelheim 5 years ago. He wants his revenge. So that's why they have to fight all the time." The original story concepts and themes have become obfuscated and confused with all the Compilation/Kingdom Hearts/Remake stuff. Videos like yours are very important analysis of how the story was originally portrayed and intended. Thank you!
I love the perspective but I always viewed sephiroth as a more tragic villain. I think that jenova did a mind break to sephiroth the same way sephiroth did to cloud. Sephiroth just wasn't as successful as jenova was. I think that at this point there isn't much of a difference between sephiroth and jenova, that jenova has completely subsumed sephiroth. Also, sephiroth/jenova absolutely won at the end of the game. They may have lost the battle, but it doesn't matter at that point because sephiroth has already poisoned the life stream and that's what geostigma is
Devs have also said that the original game's timeline ends with humanity being eradicated. Still not Jenova's full plan, since she wants the destruction of all life, but still not the "good ending" a lot of players assumed
I agree with this. People talk all the time about how Sephiroth dominated Jenova's will. But did he? My take ever since I played the game has been that Sephiroth at best was able to become a sort of equal parts gestalt consciousness of himself and his genetic mother, a human avatar. His personality, his body, his memories, but Jenova's will has clearly twisted his motives. After the Nibelheim Mansion, Sephiroth was never the same, and especially post timeskip he and his motives are completely different. He has changed from an internally tortured hero, to a madman, to a being seeking to end the planet, just as his 'mother' did. He begins using the same abilities as 'her' to control and warp minds, twist bodies, etc. His own plan even involves mutating himself beyond recognition just as Jenova does. I personally believe Sephiroth was the first, and greatest, casualty of the Reunion, and is driven by the same primal, mimetic instincts for control, destruction, Reunion and propagation. Hojo unwittingly created the perfect harbinger of the calamity; a human host. The single biggest example of why I believe this is in Advent Children. There, he specifically states that at this point he purely shares the same exact motive as Jenova.
This may be a crap analogy, but it's the best one I can think of at the moment for how I see the Sephiroth vs Jenova debate: Think of an addict, a drunk, or anyone else with a dependency. They'll tell you to the moon and back. "I'm in control, I'm doing this of my own volition." But by the contrary, everything they do, every decision they make, is driven by that need, that imperative. Not to say Sephiroth is addicted to Jenova. 😆 Jist the best example i could think of of someone who can't help but be driven by an need beyond their control.
@@Neo-Midgar I agree, I think JENOVA took advantage of his fractured mind and then established a mutual connection between them. Sephiroth controls JENOVA as a puppet, yes. But I'd like to think JENOVA is also keeping her claws in his brain as he happily commits atrocities for his "mother."
This was literally everything I wanted! Sephiroth has been my favorite antagonist since I was 8 and a full on breakdown of his character from a narrative perspective FOR A FULL HOUR was everything I wanted and more. Literally when I go on dates with people, I talk about Sephiroth (bitches have autism). This was an incredible breakdown of his character. An additional reminder of why I fell in love with your content!
@Cranzon-qw9od oh yeah, Sephiroth in recent games has become somewhat of a characature of himself rather than embodying the actual aspects of himself that made him narratively compelling. Funny enough, I’d argue that Caius Ballad from FFXIII-2 is probably the best villain in the franchise but even if blinded by nostalgia in someways, I love this character ,and by extension, this video
@Cranzon-qw9odI like Sephiroth because of his desing, song, his tragic backstory and he feels a lot like a horror villain, Sephiroth is like Darth Vader but for videogames imo. He definitively isn't the most well written character in the series or media, but he's so simple yet so interesting and appealing, his dynamics with Cloud also make him stand-out a lot from other villains.
If I had to take a guess as to why Sephiroth doesn't speak in the final battle it would be because he has, on some level, either been succeeding or realized that it's not going to work and broken again. He's spent the last four years bathed in the collective unconscious of the planet, gathering more and more fragments of the World-Soul into himself to be both healed and empowered, add onto that his continued exposure to Jenova and his cultivation of her form of life within himself, and I'm not entirely certain he's still /in there./ His ambition and goals are still alive, but he has cast off his human form, and in doing so he may have also cast aside his personality and self, all the things he does not value in others, to become something like the will of his new World-Soul, stripped down to little more than a manifested spear of Intent. And it would be done to solve the continued pain he suffers at the repeated breaking of his Identity. Because there is no Identity to break, no capacity to question himself or his purpose in a form like that. He has everything he needs, he will become a God, and if shedding every part of himself that hurts is the price for that, he will pay it gladly. This would contrast and mirror directly with Cloud, who instead of pivoting to center his whole world around each new thing he learned about himself, has instead had to integrate these revelations with the rest of who he is. So Sephiroth is stripped down to a single thing each time he breaks, and Cloud instead grows into being more of himself. It would also make the way their swords are later depicted make some thematic sense, Cloud is many truths coalesced into a single whole, while Sephiroth is a single truth honed to its very edge, which, given their inspiration, would definitely track.
I think your great bret the way you offer content that is different and makes gamers appreciate their favourite protagonists and antagonists while expertly dissecting characters and plots by using literary principles as an english major i really enjoy your content and wait for every video keep it up and love from egypt❤
Jenova’s influence over people really reminds me of hive mind entity where instead of being each person she can influence those with weak wills or jump into them and use them as an avatar for her monstrous forms.
Great video on one of the best villains to grace the genre and my favourite game ever. Just a couple of points though. - The first time you 'meet' Sephiroth face to face in OG is actually on the ship from Junon to Costa Del Sol. (Although technically this isn't Sephiroth...so you could actually say the first time is at the Northern crater when Cloud gives his physical body the black material). - Also, Sephiroth is definitely using the Jenova cells in Clouds body to control him, not just pure willpower. If he could do that he would just do it to everyone. Great video though. Really enjoyed it and the focus on the theme of identity and how Clouds identity crisis mirrors most people struggle with their ego. A lot of gamers and critics miss this and I think it's one of the key points that make this game amazing.
And exists because of him, at that. Hojo may not be the scientist who started Jenova research; but he's the man who was consumed by it, who couldn't stop. Gast, as we discover latter, had a crisis of morality- he wanted to stop, so on. Which is why he is killed. And Hojo, Hojo never hesitates to push even further than before...
I think in general the most tragic part of Sephiroth's character is had he not found out about the jenova project and snapped he would have been a good guy
At least with the Compilation, Sephiroth was literally one mission off from putting off Shinra for good. That makes his villainy even more tragic; he literally was going to blow off Shinra and be a normal person because they saw what they did to Angeal and Genesis.
He was also shown to, prior to that, to be basically someone who was just following the path laid out for them, seeking a deeper sense of purpose. Someone who had just lost his two best friends, and Zack was basically the closest he had left- and their relationship was inherently strained. Because Zack was both his friends student- and the man who killed him. There's a contrasted duality in that. So of course. He's in a massive state of emotional vulnerability, a cross roads in life, when Jenova strikes.
I guess this then technically means god-complex Sephiroth is really just permanent psychotic-break Sephiroth, given he hastily constructs his god complex over six days, and then is forced by Lifestream mechanics to maintain his god complex and obsession over Cloud both in OG FF7 and Advent Children
This game sent me down a fun rabbit hole learning about esoteric traditions when I was a kid, life changing really. The intro/recap to Rebirth is something else man, I dreamed about having a game like this back then
Should mention in regards to Shinra. They aren't 'more powerful than the government'. They are the government. The security that serve in Midgar is Shinra's private military. In this way, Shinra is basically a Corporatocracy.
I forgot how absolutely fantastic your style of documentary psychological analysis what have you is. After this I'm going to go back and re-watch that Metroid Prime video
I was like 1 hour video, crazy. But hell I finished watching without skipping. Incredible detail and thoroughly explained. Thank you so much. I really like Sephiroth because I see him as a victim of Shinra. He was treated as an asset instead of human. He had no life outside Shinra, no family or so isolated. So eventually he would snap with enough pressure.
Everyone always blames Nomura for the wackier final fantasy stories but that's not true, he gets his jollies off with Kingdom Hearts. No, it's Nojima who we need to look to for the real storyteller. I'm glad he is writing the remake trilogy so there is consistency with all the characterizations, when you include all the compilation you see Sephiroth constantly trying to reinvent himself, his ego never accepting being less than the best.
@supremefankai5480 You do understand that it's Nojima and Kitase doing coming up with the multiverse and whispers and the one who decided to show Sephiroth early? It was Hamaguchi himself who had to stop them from coming up with more terrible ideas like trying to change the design of the reactors. Nomura just green lit everything. Nomura himself even wanted to keep Sephiroth hidden. Please do some research before jumping on the blame Nomura bandwagon.
Another video described him as a walking contradiction and it stuck with me. He looks young, but has white/gray hair, he looks masculine and feminine at the same time, he looks menacing and heroic, he comes off as evil and angelic. Never noticed and acknowledged that before.
One very minor correction: A few times you refer to the planet as "Earth," when it's actually not called that in-game or out of game. In game, it's exclusively "the planet," but it has been referred to as "Gaia" in some outside material.
Fantastic video. Despite spending a lot of time analyzing this video, this video provided some insights, perspectives, and theories I had never heard before. Looking forward to your video on Cloud!
Great video! I really enjoyed your breakdown of Sephiroth. I am excited to see you analysis on other characters and your thoughts to how it pertains to each character in Rebirth.
Another point about the info sephiroth finds is that hojo seems to have very intentionally made sure sephiroth would find it. Not hard to believe hojo would also edit documents, remove certain texts, and leave extra red herrings to ensure there’s no way he won’t snap
One other thing that wasn’t really mentioned as much in this video is Advent children. That film along with “on the way to a smile” novel really set up a lot with Sephiroth, just being a permanent force in the world. Even after his massive defeat, he is still such a huge and dangerous threat if he ever shows up. Which is why I’m loving the story stuff going on in the remake series
I still remember walking through K-Mart with my mom... I got $60 in birthday money and I saw this game for 49.99 on the shelf I picked it, and that was it... Still hooked to this day
Sephiroth is so underrated, yes, *UNDERrated.* Most people basically just hate on him because he's popular and not as good (Or at least not as fun) as Kefka, but he is a pretty interesting character and villain too. Stoicism is a personality trait, it's whether or not they show signs of emotion that determines whether or not the writers forgot to give them a personality, and Sephiroth does show those signs. And about the anger at him getting in Smash over Kefka: Kefka's not getting in until Terra gets in, though I'd absolutely welcome it.
I think the reason why Sephiroth doesn't speak during the final battle is because this fight is not important to him. He truly believes in the idea that your energy keeps existing in the life stream when you die and that you just keep going --- and he's right. He comes back in Advent Children through geostigma and faces Cloud again. In that fight, Cloud defeats Sephiroth but Sephiroth again doesn't seem to care. His words, "I will never be a memory," indicate that no matter what you do, he will find a way to come back and he proved it once already.
What I like (or technically, love to hate) about Sephiroth is that his motives are based on inconclusive findings that might not even be based in fact in the first place, yet he's so up himself that he commits to the bit instantly. It takes an unbelievably awful person to think that highly of oneself that just a tiny bit of confirmation bias is enough to make them act on it to such an extreme extent. That's what makes him so frightening in concept. He is the personification of ignorant jingoism.
He's also had the cells of an alien lifeforms injected into him, an alien life form that has psychic powers. Psychic powers wich the game goes to great length to demonstrate can have profound impacts on the mental state and actions of the people who have been exposed to it.
Sephiroth was created in a lab and constantly told about how he was supposed to be a killing machine and the best SOLDIER of all, he was treated like Superman by Shinra and all he knew was pretty much killing and the fact that he was supposed to be above everyone else and with all that, an Evil Alien gene within himself, Sephiroth's insanity and arrogance was fueled by Hojo and Shinra from his creation.
@@renren47618Yeah, being half Hojo didn't help. Hojo was a callously hubristic tosspot in his own right _without_ the influence of Jenova, so now add the ambitions of a malevolent alien being and, well, you get a selfish A-hole with beautiful hair.
@@renren47618 I think Susan's bots instantly deleted my reply so I'll try again. Yeah, being half Hojo did not help. He was a very bad person without Jenova's influence, and while Jenova isn't so much Sephiroth's literal mother as much as he was genetically modified after it, that certainly wouldn't have been a good combination. It would be like if Myra Hindley had Charles Manson's baby, and then that baby was fasttracked up the ranks in the military, then one day read a bunch of forum posts that said "Charles Manson Jr. might be a god" and he instantly believed it.
I personally believe that the theory of Jenova being a Sin Spawn is correct. One that somehow escaped the destruction of Sin itself. In that case it's likely that Sephiroth overpowered Jenova due to being sapient. The Sin Spawn themselves are clearly no more intelligent than most animals. As is depicted in Final Fantasy 10, Sin is on the same level as humans (which is obvious given it's origin) and the Sin Spawn act on instinct alone.
Sephiroth is such a complicated compelling character in my opinion bc he didn’t have to be the villain. He wasn’t necessarily pre ordained to be the villain. Yet through even the original game, and more so the tie in games, we see how event after event, tragedy after tragedy he is cut further and further from humanity. Some by personal choice, other times that he had no choice. Jenova took advantage of his shying away from the pain, but then was consumed too. No mother , he probably knew about Hojo, Gast left. Hojo was.... Hojo. His friends abandoned him....what comfort and care did humanity provide? Between those that abandoned or are Hojo and a space parasite which promises to never leave .....not many would cling to Hojo. Like good storytelling, Cloud through circumstances and machination has a story that strongly mirrors Sephiroth , but Cloud had companions that wouldn’t abandon him, without dying. For all of Sephiroth’s advantages, its friendship that proves to be the strongest force on their planet and Cloud wins bc of it. Sephiroth can’t see friendship as a factor bc he never had it, not really. At least not any form that didn’t cause him pain. In embracing Jenova, he runs from and cuts off his humanity, his pain. Losing to what he cut off bc it was painful for him. ...Cloud may have been the successful experiment between the two afterall.
Final Fantasy 7: Identity Crisis I would _love_ a video on Kefka, my personal favorite villain in the FF series, but I understand if you'd not want to make a project on something where you only have 16-bit footage to work with lol.
Problem is that in ff6 Kefka is simply evil. There is no path there on why he became that way. He simply wants to become god by amy means necessary. Not sure how anyone could write his origin story. In ff7 we do get sephiroth origin afterall.
@@ImPrettySureThisIsMax Now imagine what Sephiroth could accomplish if he would play silent game as Kefka did. This mocking Cloud, killing Aerith made him lose in yhe end.
kefka snapped because the process of turning people into magitek knights was deeply flawed and kefka mentally snapped and broke. it's talked about in game. he was probably already bad even before that what with being a higher up in the empire but that made him worse and truly an evil being.
It's interesting to see that in FF7 Remake and Rebirth, Sephiroth has actually succeeded in merging/overwriting the lifestream with his own soul. He takes over a faction of the whispers, which are a fundamental protector of the lifestream and it's course through time.
I cannot remember where I first saw it, but I remebr seeing Cloud and Sephiroth's artwork for the game and I was immediately intrigued. Playing through the first time, seeing that flash back terrified me when I was younger. I can really appreciate the mystique and symbolism he carroes with him. A one-winged angel of death.
I've always interpreted Jenova as something very similar to Lavos from Chrono Trigger. Who is another example of cosmic horror. But where Lavos was used to show the underlying way unknown factors influence the course of history, Jenova is used to illustrate the confusion at the heart of a lack of identity. We know next to nothing about Jenova and so Sephiroth rooting his identity in this unknowable malicious thing. Ensures he will never truly know himself. The only way for sephiroth to have known himself is to embrace his humanity because that is rooted in something tangeable. Jenova is so beyond anyone's understanding that trying to be Jenova only makes Sephiroth into a confused monster.
The thing about Cloud's mind control, is that it IS Jenova's cells doing it. Even without the compilation's additions, In the original 7, Cloud and Zack were both infused with Jenova Cells, and much like the numbers, Cloud was always under Jenova's control. The first time we see this is when the projection of Cloud's thoughts are huddled in the corner, and when you talk to it, it starts muttering incoherent (at the time) things. "You can't change anything by sitting back and looking at it" and "Wake Up." The second line is shared by the "Sephiroth" that takes the Black Materia, and has Cloud beat Aerith. In fact, besides the Nibel flashback, We've not once seen Sephiroth, since he died in the reactor. He was never at the Northern Crater, He wasn't the one we fought at the end. From the second you jump into the point of no return, once Jenova's Theme starts playing to the ending cutscene, We've been fighting the Entirety of the Calamity from the Skies. But when you fight Jenova-SYNTHESIS, it's not her theme, it's not a theme that's a darker reprise of her normal otherworldly theme. It's a Corruption of the Main Battle Theme, "Those who Fight." It's Not even the Boss theme of "Those who Fight On." Jenova Complete isn't even in the Same time signature of Jenova's Theme. You wanna know what is? "Birth of a God" The theme for Bizzaro Sephiroth. But why? That's because the "Sephiroth" we've been dealing with the entire game and even the final boss, wasn't Sephiroth. It was the Calamity From the Sky. Remember, Jenova is the name they gave it. Its entire plan was detailed to us. It will become one with the planet, take up all of the planet's knowledge and life. Why would it ever keep the same form it had when it first arrived, if it's taking all the life, knowledge and power of the world? Thus, the shed corpse that made up Jenova-SYNTHESIS was discarded and nothing more than a husk. The "Sephiroth" Body you see in that doesn't talk and keeps blasting your party is the new form of The Calamity from the Sky. It doesn't talk, because it doesn't need to. It knows all of the Knowledge of the World has ever known, what could talking to you ever accomplish now? Once you destroy Bizzaro Sephiroth, You hear the Cry of the World. It's in pain again, because Bizzaro Sephiroth (A wierd mashup of Sephiroth's form in the structure and shape of Jenova) hatched. From it, drawing on the knowledge and limitless bounds of the Lifestream, is Safer Sephiroth. Once you defeat Safer Sephiroth, Cloud's very mind and soul, and only him because he's the only one infested the virus in the Jenova Cells that were poured into him, is pulled into the Lifestream, as The Calamity tries to take over his body again. This time he's able to win, dispersing The Calamity to the Lifestream, finally "Killing" it. The above was all based on info we get in the original game, alone. With the Compilation, we get even more information, with Crisis Core showing us who the Real Sephiroth was, how he was actually friendly with people, until his best friends both died due to genetic experimentation, and finding out he TOO was one of these experiments. How, Sephiroth was still friendly enough to learn about Cloud, a faceless mook security force member and not even a faceless SOLDIER mook, just to ask him some questions about Nibel and tell him to go out and see his friends in town. Or, how in the Advent Children, the Memetic legacy of Sephiroth caused the next time the Calamity tried its hand at resurgence, It took his form, the current 'perfect form' it created from the knowledge it had access to (Kadaj's thoughts and memories). The Advent Children Sephiroth even flatly says that he'll turn the world into a barren husk, and ride it like Jenova did to a new world. It is flatly saying that is its goal. Even Dirge of Cerberus gets in on this, with the Calamity's Memetic legacy (Kill the planet and move on to a new world) having been completely implanted into the World itself, as after the Calamity was first defeated, it had created the WEAPONs, including the Omega WEAPON, which was designed to suck up the purest of lifestream to create its body and take what pure lifestream was left and fly off to a seed a new world, leaving the corrupted dying Lifestream to crumble away, And the main villain of Dirge of Cerberus, HOJO, plans on doing just that, so he can complete his "Son's" goal of eating the world and moving on to the next. TL;DR: The very reason it seems like Sephiroth has a complete shift in character three times in the Original FF7, is because after he died in the reactor, Sephiroth was replaced by The Calamity, using him as its new face as the pinnacle of humanity, which everyone thought he was, thus knowledge was in the Lifestream as him being the best, so it used his Form. Hell, if that TL;DR is true, the Final Villain of the RE:FF7 Trilogy may take Clouds form, because eventually it'll be common knowledge that Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth, and thus the final battle is the original Team, With added alt reality Zack and Aerith, with an alt reality Sephiroth who played FFXVI, and learned to push L3 and R3 together and overcome his mind break.
Really the oly reason Cloud survives is he has all the info to accept the truth. Separoth never did. Really you can’t blame him for learning what he did and responding as he did. It probably also helps that the Planet was nice to cloud while being hostile to Seph despite them both being humans injected with Jenova
I've always loved to think that Jenova and the species that she belongs to developed on a planet with a similar lifestream system and became adept at absorbing and consuming lifestream energy and, when their host planet is completely drained of life, creating a meteor from it's husk to hurl themselves through space to find a new planet to infect and consume. With how Jenova used illusions of dead ancients to fool the living ones she was likely tapping into and using echoes from the lifestream of the planet to craft them. And I think the reason why she seems to be working with and not resisting Sephiroth is just that he is an excellent active pawn to help feed her and continue the cycle. There's honestly no guarantee Jenova's species have humanoid forms or forms that are recognizable at all and only assumed such shapes when she began sifting through the lifestream for illusory concepts.
Unrelated to Sephiroth- but it took me seeing it again in rebirth for this connection to click for me. A lot of the characters parallel and mirror complement and contrast each other in overlapping ways in this game. I never noticed before the similarity between Nanaki and Cloud in that both of them are mentally teenage boys donning a way of acting and speaking to be a cooler older man in control to be taken seriously. It genuinely took hearing it in voice acting for that to click.
May just not have had time to go into depth about the Judeo-Christian mythos of the Sefirot, but not only is it “godly” but it is literally defined as the “path to godhood” which is exactly what he is trying to do. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefirot#:~:text=The%20sefirot%20are%2010%20emanations,one%20God%20reveals%20His%20will. Also I’d like to add another mechanical element the game uses to make you feel just how overmatched Sephiroth is. The line Cloud delivers in Kalm “Sephiroth is far stronger in reality than any legend you have ever heard” is probably the most badass way of describing the unknowable power of a being outside C’Thulu. That line has stuck with me since I was 8… Also, directly after Kalm, you have the chocobo ranch to run past the Midgar Zolom. This is a fun, nothing part of the game for most people, because it’s light hearted and funny and Cinco de Choco plays, and yay funny Nausicaä of the wind reference. But that is because, like most people fuck around and find out at least once…if you don’t go the Chocobo route, you get attacked by a giant goddamn serpent trying to make it to the cave who absolutely demolishes you. It cannot possibly be won at the usual level, and you only don’t game over because he punts a character off screen so someone lives and you learn “okay, so invincible snake is not the way to go”. However, as soon you cross the marsh and enter the mythril caves, you see another Zolom casually hefted and impaled on a splintered tree. The thing that just showed you as a party are absolutely going to die if you fight it, has been casually curb stomped by Sephiroth, off screen, with zero effort or pomp and circumstance. It’s one of the moments in 7 of which there are many (Aeris being most peoples healer) where the GAME uses the language of GAME MECHANICS to tell you “this is a motherfucker you absolutely cannot beat…good luck with all that” Love the video; keep up the good work
On Rebirth this was done SO BADLY. Sephiroth appears out of nowhere and 'saves' Cloud from the Midgar Zolom and it's show him Impaling it on a cutscene, it takes away so much from the storytelling and makes it so shallow, FF7R has a lot of these in fact. It saddens me how in 1997 they did most of the story parts way better than on 2024, especially considering that the people working on FF7R are mostly the same guys who worked on the original.
It's explained though- though not blatantly. You encounter the Zolom chasing one of the Sephiroth Clones, the 'black robed men'- who we know from the original, that Sephirith can use to manifest himself. Ect. Now to consider- the why of this. It's because they made Remake and Rebirth with it in mind; that you'd already played the original. It's meant as a sequel in that sense; With it in mind that the build up and progress and characterization from the original happened- and there's no point being subtle and slow any more. So they do the scene differently; they show a clone, and then show Sephiroth interfering. Ect. Because in Remake/Rebirth, Sephiroth seems to have a far higher interest in gaslighting and manipulating Cloud, warping his mindset, sowing doubt, so on.
For me the silence in sepiroth final boss is the culmination of him becoming a eldritch being. Perhaps he is speaking but is so utterly alien that we cannot even perceive as a language..
I hate what they did with Seph in the Remake. He's so unsubtle and creepy now, rather than the horror villain turned would-be god he was in the OG. Way overused and sort of anime villain cliche. It's a shame, because his OG introduction from Midgar all the way to the Temple of Ancients is so damn effective. He was legit scary and yet sympathetic. Even now I can't help but feel a bit for him when Cloud tells his story, knowing what monsters he had to deal with all his life. Not surprising he'd become a monster with how they used him.
@@dmg6672 I know. And I feel that Remake would've been far superior as an actual remake rather than this weird meta abomination it turned into. All most of us wanted was the game we loved with modern graphics, a better translation, and maybe a little more time with the characters, since OG was extremely limited by technology of its time. Stuff like going with Jessie to worker housing was fine, even though I wasn't personally a big fan of Roche. That's the sort of thing I'd have liked them to focus on. Instead they, strangely, ran with the actual OG characterizations of most of the heroes juxtaposed with the flanderized version of Sephiroth from the compilation. At least they didn't force emo Cloud, feisty Tifa, and saintly Aerith on us again ... Just some really incomprehensible decision-making, IMO.
I do at least like the meta things Sephiroth is doing if only because Sephiroth has been established since the beginning that he wants his victory by any means in FF7, and if they were to go meta this is how they would do it, but on the other hand the initial intrigue of Sephiroth, which is literally most of the plot until Cloud gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth, is now lost, especially because you now need to know that Sephiroth has lost thrice against Cloud, and knows that Cloud relies on his friends to get him through his identity crisis that causes Cloud to be manipulable, and thus tries to break his friendship off. It is unexpectedly very FF16-ish.
![(free)Travis Scott | Don Toliver Type Beat - "Tokyo" [Prod.$LEPTT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YIY0qFI8RXM/mqdefault.jpg)
This video will spoil the entire plot line of the original Final Fantasy 7. I have not played Rebirth yet, so I don't know how closely the Remake follows the original, but the video will undoubtedly spoil several key moments of the story for you if you have not finished either game yet.
Dude I'm ready for every version of anything you cover IDC what it is or if I ever heard of it. There just really isn't any other content creator I've found that scratches the itch quite like a FatBrett video.
Very nice video! can you do Kefka next? He actually suceeded in his plan multiple times, which is a first in a mainline FF game.
I often wonder if the devs of dead space got some inspiration from FF7 because the moment I saw a necromorph I instantly thought about JENOVA like she can really be the matriarchal necromorph…..connected universe anyone??😂
Hey are we gonna get a Songbird Video for Phantom Liberty soon?
@Fatbrett You should analyze Xenoblade character Jin.
This man made a 1 hour+ video about Sephiroth and didn’t play One Winged Angel even once. The sheer restraint on display is staggering.
only thing missing xD
There's nothing more to say.
Doesn't it play in the background in the start or am I tripping??
@@FeelingWitchyArtthat’s “Listen to the cries of the planet” 😭
@@AsteroSloth Upon a relisten, I don't know how the fuck I heard it lmao it doesn't even sound remotely similiar
My favorite quote about Sephiroth is "You know how they tell stories about someone and often they don't live up to them? With Sephiroth it's the exact opposite."
Sephiroth does all of the things that a great villain should do.
He is like a literal checklist of all of the things that a great villain should entail.
@@LordMalice6d9 Absolutely.
@@LordMalice6d9 Absolutely.
The contrast between Sephiroth and Cloud extends to their identity crisises. Cloud loses his identity but, thanks to his friends, he is able to recover. Sephiroth also loses his identity, and embraces a lie, that Jenova is his Mother, that he is entitled to rule the world. He embraces this final fantasy (yep) so completely that eventually it completely overwhelms him, and whatever was left of the original Sephiroth is utterly and completely destroyed, sacrificed for the sake of power.
A much better narrative is that Sephiroth is just another victim to Jenova and Hojo. He died in Nibelheim and his entire legacy and honor as a soldier is being smeared because Jenova is wearing his body like a meat suit.
@@codynoth4183 Sadder, maybe. I like to think that the best parts of Sephiroth abandoned him, and attached themselves to Cloud instead, as Cloud values the things that Sephiroth claimed to value, back before Nibelheim. Not only that, but Sephiroth is aware of this transformation, that in his efforts to try to control Cloud, the human part of him chose an unremarkable human, rather than remain as part of him; and that just makes him hate Cloud all the more.
That and Sephiroth did spend 7 whole days, without sleeping, reading the research conducted on Jenova. Research that, mind you, misidentified Jenova as a cetra. That misinformed research, combined with approx 168 hours of uninterrupted consciousness, of course someone would go loony.
@@codynoth4183 Except thats nor really it at all. Sephiroth won out against Jenova in a battle of wills and now all parts of Jenova are puppets of Sephiroth.
@@323starlight Thing is that's never stated in any of the games. We see far more evidence that Sephiroth died in the Nibelheim lifestream/reactor.
20:20 As evil as Sephiroth is Hojo is FF7's real monster.
It's only fitting that the time stamp is 2020.... Same release as Remake and the year we don't speak of....
Facts
Yeah i agree. Sephiroth is somewhat sympathetic, considering he didn't ask to be a science experiment with alien dna injected into him as a fetus.
Sephiroth was even somewhat decent before he found out the truth and went psycho, which is all traced back to hojo. Not to mention, all the thousands of others hojo hurts with no remorse, and hojo creates all the villains, other than jenova, of course. but even then, jenova shoulda just been left alone and locked away but hojo had to be a f**kwit.
Still wish they kept hojos updated design from crisis core and dirge of cerberus instead of the remake look. He felt more unnerving as a clean scientist
Why no one talk about hojo being a real person
I love when the villain has enough of a presence that you shudder just hearing about them. You don’t ever see him until later on in the game, but you hear so much about him that you don’t forget him. Sephiroth is one of the few examples of this that I can think of, and it’s done very well.
The secret of Sephiroth's success is the writer's restraint in keeping him offscreen. Allowing the drip feed of information to build up the mystique. But also not making him too irrelevant off in the background where you forget about him. His actions are usually offscreen but CONSIQUENTIAL. You always just miss him after it's too late to stop him.
Remake looked at this and did the opposite, Sephiroth appears so much that they completely fucked up him.
@@renren47618hard disagree. It’s just different
@@beezybaby1289Nah, SPOILERS FOR REBIRTH EARLY GAME:
The moment you show the giant snake being killed by Sephiroth, you've fucked it up.
@@CaptainTitforce you're high dude, that scene was great.
@fecal_position6412 it really wasn't. The video touched on it but the gulf in strength between yourself and Sephiroth was very apparent in game. Initially you only had stories, but when you scrape past the Midgar Zolom only to find Sephiroth not only killed one but put it through a tree, you realize Cloud was not exaggerating. Sephiroth really is THAT strong.
I don't understand why Cloud and friends are impressed by Sephiroth's ability to kill a big snake in Remake. Cloud has already defeated the metaphysical embodiment of fate and destiny. Why should anyone in the party be threatened by a big lizard? And it's because Remake couldn't help itself. It had to show its p*nties on the first date and leave nothing else to impress us with later.
20:48 If Sephiroth knew Hojo was his dad, he'd have gone insane much sooner. Knowing he's related that walking ball of grease would have broken his mind so hard Jenova could've overtaken his mind from the opposite side of the planet.
Isn't Vincent his father ?
@moruemourue9692 did you play the game at all?
@@moruemourue9692 That's just a fan theory. Hojo identifies himself as Sephiroth's father, and no other character ever posits otherwise.
Would be interesting if the third game indicates otherwise (no talks of Sephiroth's dad in Rebirth, I just finished a 113 hr playthrough last night).
That said, I wouldn't put Hojo above calling himself Sephiroth's father from the perspective of having "created" him, regardless of the actual genetics of the matter
@@SableWind I don't know what is funnier, Vincent getting cucked by Hojo of all people or the image of Sephiroth and Vincents edgy father-son time together.
@moruemourue9692 No. That's just debunked theorists coping. Hojo being his father has been confirmed several times.
Sephiroth is just one of those villains who is so compelling, EVERYONE has a shared respect for, wether it be from a point of inspiration, or outright fear.
As a wise prince once said. "HES SO...DAMN...COOL"
@@MasterKombatBro HIS POWER IS..... MAXIMUM
He is REGEND, and saved France on the side.
The Kefka fans have a few things to say
not quite everyone.
I played FFVII for the first time a few years ago, and was confused about what all the hype around Sephiroth was about. This may have been in part, because people kept saying he was one of the greatest villains of all time, which made me anticipate someone in the same league as Mithos from Tales of Symphonia (which is an unfair expectation for any villain). Pretty sure if I hadn't had people talk him up so much, I may have actually been impressed. I mean, I personally found Vayne and Cid from FFXII more interesting than Sephiroth, and I don't see nearly as many people singing that game's praises
The gradual way Sephiroth is introduced to the player is nothing short of brilliant, that along with the pacing of his backstory. From beginning to end you are drip-fed bits of information regarding who he is and why he became what he did. Sephiroth goes from a legendary war hero who seemingly died 5 years ago, to an artificially produced Cetra obsessed with taking the planet back from humans, to being part of Jenova itself; and finally the full story was revealed. Sephiroth is human. His parents are both human, his mother being Lucrecia and his father the mad scientist Hojo. While still in the womb, Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells by Hojo and that was why he was different from other people, why he was so powerful. To quote Sephiroth himself, "Ever since I was a child I felt different, special in some way but....not like this."
In the end Hojo is the true villain responsible for most of the suffering in Final Fantasy 7, with Sephiroth being one of many victims of his cruelty.
not to mention all the other rotten behavior hojo gets up to in his spare time
@@yourehereforthatarentyou Hojo's a depraved monster.
Sephiroth invented the the gorgeous edgy nemesis trope and yet somehow doesn’t manage to fall into the trappings his contemporaries did. The Remake also added a dash of strange mix of angst and mutual pining between him and Cloud.
Because Sephi exists as long as Cloud is haunted by his memories. The moment Cloud dies at this stage, Sephiroth loses, so he is manipulating fate to keep Cloud alive, acting like a god in a world where their isn't one.. He needs cloud's help to fulfill his goals, either willing or unwittingly helping. its not Pining for, but a parasitical, abusive relationship; Cloud is a tool to be used and cast away. Just like in OG7.
Also ya no one else can seem to get edgy characters correct. Sooooo many wanabe edgelords.
@@chimerakait"There's no reason to be sad. There's no reason to be mad either. Because, Cloud, you are...
A puppet."
*Kefka: "Am I a joke to you?"*
I’m sure there were plenty that fit that trope before him but he is certainly a poster child of the trope!
@@jairizard "I will never be... a memory!" 😉 living rent free in clouds head.
Have heard people saying they are disappointed how the story begins fighting an evil corp but moves to sephirot but to me sephirot also represents the results of what happens when the greed is left unchecked, a human built for the ambitions of others, same greed that lead them to experiment with jenova, giving raise to the apocalypse
He's a product thereof, and is on many ways, before Nibelheim, pitiable.
He's a puppet himself, for the first section of his life- ironic, in regards to the accusations he makes towards Cloud, but that's almost certainly intentional.
He's the fruit of a company pushing into matters beyond human control, for pure greed and rampant need.
And the man he was before Nibelheim is, in a way, the first victim of the monster he becomes.
I agree with that. Sephiroth may be a force of nature, but he is one that Shinra unleashed. In that sense, FF7 is a classic “human makes thing they can’t control and pays the price for it” story.
I’m all but relieved by that switch. It’s not like we’re lack for games where the plot is fighting yet another Megacorp and I’m frankly sick of them.
I like that Sephiroth offers a more global, cosmic threat beyond the scope of mustache twirling Captain Planet villains.
This part in 21:28 is still one of the goofiest scenes to me. Just seeing Sephiroth having to pull himself up to see in the port hole... This being of unfathomable power, having to clamber up to peak into the pod like a curious child makes me chuckle every time I see it.
It's oddly cute. 😮
I think it's a nice detail too. Like it was designed so rank and file Shinra staff couldn't peek inside and see what they were really working on.
The remake made me fall in love with Sephiroth all over again, reminding me why he is so iconic and one of my favorite villains in fiction. He is the Morning Star and Dark Angel of the FF franchise.
who’re morning star & dark angel
@@yourehereforthatarentyouI assume he’s referring to Lucifer Morningstar (The Devil/Satan) and for Dark Angel I assume those murderous soldiers of god, or that one tv show in the early 2000s
I was going to watch this video
Then suddenly, Sephiroth intervened
1:13:55 Until the end.
But what will you do with them?
It has a little something for everyone
1:02:07 after Rebirth we can see this happening again. It's implied that Sephiroth's new reunion can now only be attempted thanks to the group beating the arbiters of fate in Remake. So once again, Sephiroth has manipulated his enemies to get exactly what he wants.
But Sephiroths' ambitions and goals are much more grand and vast this time. He doesn't just want to take control of the planet's lifestream, but he wants to take control of it across all worlds and timelines and take control of other planets with lifestreams as well.
One of the best things that came from the prequel Crisis Core was highlighting Sephiroth's humanity. We learn he did care about people and their lives. Even giving Zack time off to see Aerith knowing it how much she meant to him. It pairs so well with the core game to the point it almost felt natural and they planned it out from the beginning. How losing Genesis and Angeal was basically him losing any attachments to his humanity and the only family he ever had.
EXACTLY
I never liked Crisis Core. Its story was a mess. At least Zack is a likable protagonist.
Sephiroth is the perfect definition of the nemesis that always destroys your plans no matter what you do.
The man himself is covering the man himself…
This is going to be legendary
man moment
Another cool thing about Sephiroth is that he not only is a dark reflection of Cloud, but the other party members as well. Aerith, for example, is pretty much everything that Sephiroth initially believes about himself: a descendant of the Cetra race, chosen by the planet. Barret and Sephiroth both hate Shinra for what they done to the planet and themselves, but Sephiroth wants to kill all of humanity, whereas Barret limits himself to Shinra instead. Red was experimented on by Hojo like Sephiroth was. Cid, Vincent, and Cait Sith were former employees of Shinra that were wronged by them like Sephiroth. Tifa is similar to how Sephiroth is in Crisis Core, in which both are forced to watch as their friends descend to madness as a result of Shinra’s actions. The biggest difference between Sephiroth and the party is how they choose to deal with their traumas and the path they take.
And dead guy Zack is the only person whose parents are still alive
@@LeadLeftLeon Yeah, until Hojo dies later in the OG, and Sephiroth's mother is his only parent left alive.
This is a good take, agreed 100%
The library scene on onward was masterfully created to help peoples understand what was going on with him in rebirth. I hope you do another video talking about his character in advent, remake and rebirth with how much of a manipulative villain he becomes instead of the typical physical.
I wonder... And this is just a thought.
Perhaps the reason why Sephiroth is silent during the final battle, is because he is still dead.
He died at Nibelheim, and his soul entered the life stream, but the jenova cells took what was left of him and regenerated his body.
The Sephiroth we see through the game is all Jenova, the mad and insane ramblings come from a Jenova clone of Sephiroth.
I might be wrong as I haven't beaten the game in a while, but does the Sephiroth from the crater say anything at all?
Maybe... What we fight at the end isn't Sephiroth the man, but the fully realized successor to Jenova, the god among mortals and destroyer of worlds?
And... Well, at this point, since we killed Jenova, prior to fighting Sephiroth, there is nothing more to give him direction.
Besides, Sephiroth was a chameleon, he adopted the philosophies and identities of those he viewed as family.
When he worked for shinra, he was the greatest soldier.
When he thought he was an ancient, he adapted to become the Cetra's avenger.
When he realized he was the successor of Jenova, he became the calamity of Terra.
Sephiroth never had an identity, besides being mentally broken and scarred.
So the final true Sephiroth, has no dialogue because he has no identity anymore as he is subject to the life stream.
All he knows is calamity, and for someone who relies on others to give him purpose.
He was never able to conquer the life stream.
I admit, this is as tenuous a theory as any regarding Sephiroth's character.
Most of it relies on Jenova being the dominant party.
But perhaps... In a tragic way, it displays the story of Jenova as a mother, desperately trying to bring back the only true family she has.
Sephiroth died after finding Jenova, what if, this whole story was just Jenova trying to bring her boy back?
An alien, but worried mother fighting against the life stream for the only person who loves her as family.
So she parades around using his image, leading to the events where Sephiroth's true body would be bathed in the life stream and hopefully regain his soul, and inherit her mission, to become a calamity.
Leave it to fatbrett to get your mind working on character theories...
This marvelously parallels Cloud!
@@swordscion6212This on relies on the headcanon that Jenova even has motherly instincts. It has a feminine form but that simply could be the form it took after arriving on Gaia to blend in and slowly begin draining the planet. Jenova is a parasitical alien from space after all.
Sephiroth never wanted to avenge the ancients (that was more clouds "testimony"), more likely he found out he was "related " to Jenova and basically gave up on humanity
What I thought was truly crazy is the first time Sephiroth's name comes up is when Cloud tells Tifa he wants to be a hero like Sephiroth on the water tower. Cloud idolized him.
This is a thoughtful video. An interesting watch.
For the people saying 'But it was all Jenova!', well - I suppose it depends on how much store you set by the ultimanias, but Ultimania Omega states flat out that Sephiroth was in control of Jenova, not the other way round. Not that I think the source material of the original game suggests anything differently though. It's pretty clear in the OG that Jenova is his meat puppet, not the other way round.
The 'cosmic horror' bit is spot on. In keeping with that, the evidence for Jenova even being sentient is pretty limited. I mean I think it's pretty obvious that Jenova is based on The Thing, and I don't think The Thing is sentient. It's cunning, but ultimately an organism of instinct.
But really the reason I don't like 'Jenova did it' is because it reduces one of the best video game villains of all time to a cipher, supposedly on behalf of an actual cipher who, curiously after more than a quarter of a century, still has absolutely no characterisation. It reduces Sephiroth to Jenova's level - a nullity. He is so much more than that.
Or perhaps that is the greatest irony of Sephiroth. Revered badass who still in the end of it all is not really anything else than glorified parasite. Whether Jenova or Sephiroth is in control does not matter, they both ride for same function. Like Shinra was the leech sucking planet dry for greed, Jenova for instict , Sephiroth did the same for delusion.
if jenova was only a creature of instinct and not actual intelligence or sentience how could she have been so catastrophically damaging to the actual cetra or the planet for that matter?
@@viper-the-great Not sure I understand the question. I mean... have you not heard of the black death? Or the Bronze age collapse? Of course it's possible to have massive civilisation-level devestation which doesn't have someone centrally directing it. You don't even need to step into fantasy hypotheticals on that one, you just need to look at actual human history.
The Cetra were devestated twice over because Jenova came on the back of a meteor impact which left a crater literally the size of Midgar. That is a big impact, and it would have had global consequences.
@@viper-the-greatI'm not sure I understand the question. I mean, you've heard of the black death and the bronze age collapse, right? Of course civilisation-level catastrophes don't need to be directed by someone. You don't even need to get into fantasy hypotheticals there, you just need to look at human history.
Jenova was partly so devestating incidentally because it came on the back of a meteor impact which left a crater the size of Midgar. That impact would have been globally devestating in of itself, not just the immediate impact but also the impact it would have had on climate for years.
49:47 Sephiroth's obsession with Jenova and belief that she's his mother reminds me of Silent Hill 4's Walter Sullivan who was convinced by the Order cult's Dahlia Gillespie that he could be reunited with his mother if he committed the 21 Sacrements ritual murders. She was actually just using him as a backup plan to bring back the Order's god.
I've always seen Sephiroth as an extremely tragic villain, born of an equally tragic misunderstanding, who kills what in other circumstances would be a sister figure to him, the daughter of professor Gast, Aerith, just because they're on opposite sides. The true, revolting villain of FFVII will always be Hojo for me. So many of the other games misinterpret Sephiroth's character in a fundamental way by making him evil "just because", and because he's popular. I can't wait for you to cover the rest of my favourite game of all time.
Edit: to answer your questions about JENOVA, the way I've always felt about the final battle (and most of Sephiroth's appearances ingame) is that it's the other way around. JENOVA is in control, and was always in control ever since the end of the events of NIbelheim. Sephiroth's real body never left the crater, all we've seen of him were bodies created out of JENOVA cells (which we can see everytime Sephiroth attacks us, like in the ship to Costa del Sol and after Aerith's death and we don't fight him, but JENOVA) and while he was partially in control of the objects (most likely JENOVA's tentacles) through which he summoned the aforementioned facsimiles of himself, at the end she simply didn't need him anymore. Sephiroth's mind was already damaged by the revelations he suffered in the library, and even further when he was thrown into the Lifestream directly when "killed" by Cloud. Sephiroth freed JENOVA from the Shinra building because his weak sense of self, his need to attach his identity to SOMETHING, anything, made him the perfect host for JENOVA's will. He did it because he was compelled to. All he ever said he wanted was what JENOVA wanted. When he summoned Meteor, he was equally silent and unresponsive. At the end he says nothing because JENOVA, having reached her SYNTHESIS status, is in full control. He lived and died serving and loving a "mother" who couldn't have possibly cared less about him. I would love to know your newer or revised interpretation if you come back to this topic, however.
How does your edit tie in with Advent Children, out of curiosity, when he comes back? /Genuine
@@Ashendrot it doesn't. Anything Sqenix did after the Squaresoft days differs quite a bit from the source material. I said "other games" but what I meant is "other material", in general, after almost all the original team left.
Yeah, that's the double twist, the original sentiment, "Sephiroth died five years ago" is correct.
He was genuinely a great guy, despite his horrific upbringing he's kindhearted, selfless, dedicated and modest, a true hero. He has every reason to be something like Homelander but he's not, him fighting for "the bad guys" is not a fault of his character, rather the propaganda he's been fed his whole life. That goes for a lot of Shinra, they really run the full breadth from complete monsters like Hojo and President Shinra, to great people like Sephiroth and Reeve (Cait Sith's pilot).
Until JENOVA finally gets a hold of him and he dies soon after, that is. Remember that JENOVA is very openly inspired by The Thing, and is such a master of shapeshifting and mind control it killed almost all of the Cetra, and Sephiroth really is a perfect candidate on account of his JENOVA cells (Same as Cloud, as we see in e.g. That Aeris scene). It's never explicit but it's not too unreasonable to conclude that since Sephiroth fights for Shinra and was raised by Hojo, he is more susceptible than most to propaganda and mental influence, add mommy issues to that, another thing that's merely implied (raised by Hojo, not raised by Hojo and Lucrecia) and how JENOVA often misled the Cetra by appearing as loved ones, and it's no wonder he was controlled.
After that it's all JENOVA, wearing the disguise of Sephiroth (or on one occasion, Tifa, when Cloud hands it the black materia), from the very first encounter in the Shinra HQ onwards. That's probably why Cloud is let out, too. Cloud has JENOVA cells and needs rescue just like the main body, if Hojo's Reunion Theory is correct which it appears to be. JENOVA has no reason to suspect Cloud will put up such a fight when Sephiroth was so easily controlled. The only possible exception is the very last battle/interactive cutscene in the Lifestream, that may actually be Sephiroth but it's hard to say. Is there even a separation between Sephiroth and Jenova at that point? Jenova is clearly rebuilding Sephiroth's body in the Northern Crater, but is anything of Sephiroth's mind even left at that point?
@@Ashendrot AC is a retcon, as it is a new team with different design priorities. Lots of lore changes, Sephiroth being one of them. But you can sort of square the circle at least if you squint, and keep it somewhat consistent with the original, if you say Sephiroth/JENOVA is Kadaj doing what Vincent does with his limit breaks, Galian Beast, Death Gigas, Chaos and so on.
With this interpretation, its possible Sephiroth/JENOVA could crystallize into a Summon Materia down the line, like Ramuh, Ifrit, Bahamut and so on, but it is well and truly dead, just powerful enough to not get fully dispersed by the lifestream, thus able to crystallize into Materia.
@@albertnonymous9759 RIGHT! Man, I can't believe I forgot the fake Tifa in the Northern Crater! That, too, is pretty much a smoking gun proving JENOVA pulls every string. Sephiroth's influence stays in name but even in the end, what Cloud defeats is the Sephiroth inside his mind, and it's a battle he can't lose since he has grown as a person and shed his false Zack persona. Man, I gotta replay FFVII.
I like your theory that Sephiroth is able to mind control Cloud because of his willpower and Cloud's weak mind. However, I don't think that's mutually exclusive from the Jenova cell explanation. Those two explanations can work together and compliment each other. In fact, I'm not sure the willpower explanation works without the Jenova cells. One can't just control someone's mind through force of will alone. There has to be some sort of fantasy mumbo jumbo to justfiy it too.
Somewhere in the Shinra Mansion library it's written that the third dose of Mako protects them from Jenova cells or something. Zack had gone through the full process while Cloud was incomplete and left in a catatonic state. When he falls in the Lifestream in Mideel that is when he gets the 3rd dose, if I remember right. Wisdom from RPGamer summarized this up perfectly years ago if that article is still around anymore.
Ah, found it: "The journals in the adjacent library provide our explanation. I must infer from this editorial, and countless others like it, that most gamers did not take the initiative to search the bookcases in the back. They describe the escape and subsequent pursuit, but they also show that while Zack did not experience a reaction to JENOVA treatment, Cloud did. We discover that the soldiers let Cloud go, (they say he “escaped” in the report), because of his “diminishing consciousness.” He’s not considered a threat, because his treatment was incomplete. (Didn’t you ever wonder why Cloud had glowing eyes, even though he was never a SOLDIER? There’s your answer.)... He is subjected to experimentation that leaves him physically and mentally instable. We have no idea how long he was kept in the basement, so there’s no real way of measuring the damage done. And unlike Zack, Cloud has a reaction to JENOVA-in fact, he’s SO reactive that Hojo takes him to Phase II of the experimentation! (Unfortunately, Phase III grants stability and conscious control over the JENOVA-and Cloud escaped before he could be given the third injection.)...This explains Cloud’s helplessness. He’s two-thirds of a Mako experiment, people. He’s completely subject to outside interference. His cells are incomplete. He can’t consciously control them; his body lacks the chemical stability to do so. He’s unaware they even exist in the first half of the game! Faced with JENOVA, Cloud is virtually powerless to exert his own will. Only in situations of extreme duress can Cloud force his body to obey his commands, rather than JENOVA’s. (This speaks VERY highly of Cloud’s physical and mental discipline, because according to Hojo, Cloud shouldn’t be able to exercise free agency at all.)
Keep in mind that none of what I’ve said so far is opinion-I’m going off solely what the game provides. But there’s still one question left unanswered. Why is Cloud able to reject Sephiroth’s control at the end of the game, if it wasn’t simply psychological?
Our answer lies in the northern crater. After Cloud collapses when he realized he cannot remember how he joined SOLDIER, Ultima Weapon wakes up and starts going berserk. This causes the crater to collapse, and the companions barely escape-Cloud does not. The party flees, and eventually makes its way to Mideel, where they find Cloud washed up on shore, babbling incoherently. (Hmm... does this seem familiar?) When Tifa takes him to the resident doctor, he’s diagnosed with Mako poisoning. In fact, it’s so severe that the doctor says Cloud should not have survived. Now, Cloud is one tough SOB, but that’s not why he pulls through. He already had Mako in his bloodstream from the earlier experiments. News flash, ladies and gents: Cloud just got his third injection."
@@loregasmicit was 5 years. The experimentation began after cloud and Zack were both grievously injured after dealing with Sephiroth.
Oh wow. This was a treat. 😮
I did not expect duch a long video on such a famous character. Respect. B/
There's an almost throwaway line in Rebirth when you're in Cosmo Canyon where the group is discussing Sephiroth and Barret says something like "If Sephiroth is trying to save the planet then why are we fighting against him?"
That's when Cloud quips back, "Its not that Sephiroth wants to save the planet that's the problem, its how he wants to do it."
That's the essential ethic that makes every villain great. Its the ethic of that the ends always justify the means that makes a would be hero into the most horribly cruel, spiteful, vindictive, Faustian villain.
Sephiroth has never really cared about the planet, though. Only himself and his "mother". After the Nibelheim incident, that is. Before that, his brain functioned somewhat normally.
He intended to sacrifice the entire planet in order to attain quasi-godhood, after all.
@@djx7134
My comment wasn't so much about Sephiroth in particular as much as for what makes for a really compelling villain arc. Cheap villains have really weak and obvious moral problems, their ends are obviously evil as are their motivations.
Compelling villains are compelling precisely because what they're doing comes from the desire to want some good end. They're trying to save something they love. They're trying to preserve some good nut in the most heinous and abhorrent ways. Or improve something that is good but they believe that they can make it "better."
It's the difference between villains like Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, or Thanos vs whoever that weak idiot villain from Wonder Woman 2 that Pedro Pascal was supposed to be.
Sephiroth is the epitome of the Luciferin archetype, like Morgoth in the Silmarillion.
As shown before their arrival at Nibelheim, Sephiroth gave every indication of being an honest, forthright, honorable, well-balanced, and generally nice guy who had a deep sense of humor and right and wrong. Sephiroth still believes what he's doing is good and righteous. Where he falls is that he completely mistakenly believes that he's the heir of some sort of divinity when he's simply a human who's deluded himself into believing that he's something he's not, but because of the machinations of Hojo has been granted the ability to tap into powers that he doesn't have any business being allowed to tap into.
@@richvestal767 Is that really correct, though? Pre-lifestream, probably. After, he had direct access to all the information in the world, more or less. And he still chose the darkest, most evil and selfish possible route.
I guess you could argue that Jenova had more influence upon him than it appears at first (he suddenly adopted her entire lifecycle out of nowhere, after all, despite this conflicting with all that he previously believed about himself and the world). But I don't think he was misguided or deluded at all by the bombing of reactor 1 and beyond. He 100% knew what he was doing. He knew everything except for small stuff like Hojo being his dad, possibly. At that point, I doubt he'd give a damn.
Talking about Sephiroth is almost like trying to discuss three separate characters while referencing the same name. There's normal human Sephiroth (I don't agree that he was somehow not human just from the procedure he underwent in utero), who was actually well-adjusted considering the lifestyle he was forced into. Then he had the psychotic break and his personality underwent a dramatic transformation in like 1 week. This was when he was deluded and arguably insane. Then there's lifestream Sephiroth. The line between him and Jenova is a little difficult to discern.
I have a pretty good answer to the fantastic Jenova synthesis question poised at the end.
Which i feel fits with the eatablished lore and the thematic points brought up in the video.
Come with me here. This will take a minute to go through.
Its pointed out when Aerith dies. That what makes a person isnt just their life energy, its who they were, their thoughts, feelings, motivations. What have you.
The Jenova we see, shes been dead for millennia, biologically alive, sure. But her own life essence was long since exstinguished.
But through Shinra tomfoolery. Nicking her cells, pumping her corpse full of Mako, what have you. You could stretch the definition of "alive" pretty far, especially in a setting like this.
Her cells are certainly alive. And pumping through Sephiroth, Cloud, and half of SOLDIER among many many other places.
Jenova also tricked the ancients initially by mimicing their loved ones, people they cared about, people they had a strong emotional connection to, but its stated it happened when they got close to her.
So when the Jenova sample first wakes up in Shinra HQ, its not Sephiroth who woke it up.
Its Cloud. By being close to it, Cloud who too, is chock-full of Jenova cells, living Jenova cells.
If we make one wild assumption that i believe is kinda backed up in both ff7 and the exstended games and movie and stuff based on it.
(Please feel free to fact check me on this if im wrong on this, im going from memory)
Jenova cells, even when they enter the lifestream, share a connection.
So Cloud, in Shinra HQ, being close to the...soul dead? For lack of a better term. Mindless husk of Jenova. It mimics his mind. And because Jenova has no conscious will left. It doesnt pick a calculated person to mimic. It just goes for the strongest emotional connection. And his mind has the strongest emotional tie to Sephiroth.
He idealised the guy since he was a kid, and the dude slaughered everyone he knew, burned his village to the ground and slashed Tifa across the chest.
Even with his memories all messed up. Id imagine Cloud would have a hell of an emotional response to Sephiroth.
The same guy, lest we forget. Clouds last memory of, before beating him in the reactor was the guy screaming and blinding about getting even with Shinra.
So the Jenova mimic, now acting and thinking from the logic of Clouds version of Sephiroth, does just that.
Goes and gets even with Shinra.
The whole way through the first half of the game. The Jenova Mimic isnt doing things because Jenova would want to, or even because Sephiroth would want to.
It acts on the intention of what Cloud thinks the real Sephiroth would do.
Once the real Sephiroth is revived. Its not Cloud, but he, who has the strongest collection of Jenova Cells. So the mimic latches onto his mind unconsciously.
Aaand the person Sephiroth has the strongest emotional connection with....is Jenova, admittedly a fictionalised Idealised version of her. But still her, in a sense.
So now, the Mimic is emulating a fake version of itself, while still technically being itself.
The best example i can think to give, would be like an actor, with a very carefully crafted public persona, playing themselves in a movie.
The Jenova we fight at the end of FF7. Is just as the name implies. Its a synthesis.
Of both the remains of the real Jenova, and Sephiroth's mental version of what Jenova "the mother" should be, mapped onto it.
Jenova Synthesis.
To quote tropic thunder.
"Im the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude"
Unlike Cloud, Sephiroth didn't have his close friends with him to pull him back from the brink, those guys were either dead or messed up by related events.
Yeah, that's what's tragic. Cloud had loved ones who were willing to help and support him. Sephiroth lost all of the loved ones he had.
This was one of the best most accurate analysis of Sephiroths character I've seen, very well made. Well done!
I’m almost 34. Didn’t play ffvii til 2024. Everytime I hear a new perspective on the plot, the more fascinating it gets. Truly a classic with so much to examine and analyze!
I didn't play FFVII for the first time until 2008, about 11 years after it came out, so I already knew about some of its major plot twists, like Aerith's death.
But hearing Fatbrett go into detail about why her death is so tragic still made me feel sad even though I already knew before playing FFVII that it was an infamous moment in video game history.
Exactly
"This is the first time we see Sephiroth outside of a flashback, the first time we see him in the present day." Looks like SOMEBODY forgot about the ship to Costa Del Sol...
In all seriousness though, great video, great analysis!
That's what I was thinking too! But then you open yourself up to the "well that's technically not him", but then again "well that's technically not him" either😂😂
That was Jenova, not Sephiroth. Sephiroth is only actually present in FF7 3 times in the whole game. You see him in the Nibelheim flashback, you see him when he is encased in mako/materia in the Northern Crater, when Cloud gives him the black materia, and you see him in the very end, deep in the Northern Crater for the final fight of the game.
Every other time you see him in the game, you are just seeing a piece of Jenova taking on Sephiroth's appearance to fuck with Cloud and encourage Cloud to retrieve the black materia and bring it to Sephiroth's real body the Northern Crater.
@@SableWind The degree to which you have missed the point is immense. Yes, most times you meet Sephiroth, it's Jenova; but I gave a direct quote from the video which says that the encounter in Nibelheim is the first time you meet Sephiroth in the flesh; even if both I and the maker of the video know it's not the 'real' Sephiroth, that's not the point.
Also, really, for all intents and purposes Jenova IS Sephiroth, since at this point its pretty much acting as an extension of his will. Jenova talking to you as Sephiroth is likely no different from what the real Sephiroth would say if he was there.
@@kilimachevsk623 I'm guilty of reading comments before I finish the video, didn't realize that's what you were referring to in your comment. Meant no disrespect.
Sephiroth is him. Sephiroth is soooo badass, that he has a theme song that CHANTS HIS NAME
Honestly I hope it is revealed to be this and from my opinion it would fit well enough. But it turning out that it’s been jenova running the show this entire time would be just fine a reveal. She made her move at sephiroths most vulnerable. She’s manipulated him into seeing her as his mother. She took the earths greatest champion and made it her destroyer. I would like to see sephiroth come to his senses before he loses more than he already has.
Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship is probably my favourite Hero vs. Villain bond from all the games I've played. Cloud was essentially a nobody, Sephiroth didn't even know who he was until he confronted the party.
This goes past the stereotype where the villain simply acts like the hero is not worth their time and feigns ignorance. Because Sephiroth simply doesn't know who Cloud is.
Then by the time the game ends, Sephiroth now has a geunuine interest in Cloud, this supposed nobody who should be under his control has just defeated him in both body and mind. Then AC comes around, Sephiroth lives on inside Cloud's memories, and when they fight again there is a vendetta between the two, a true rivalry born.
Now the Remake series depicts Sephiroth with knowledge of future events. Now he knows who Cloud is from the beginning, and his obsession with him has continued throughout this altered iteration of the timeline. Even stating that he will not allow himself nor Cloud to end.
Your video essays are so intriguing and you transition so smoothly between each topic! This gave me a lot to think about how the Remake series is writing Sephiroth. I'm hoping you'll do another one of these when the Remake series is over!
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." -Mewtwo
Sephiroth has a choice after learning he was created and not born. He could have chosen to accept his creation and use the power he had to help rather then harm like he did in the beginning but he chose to do different.
1:05:07 That scene has made me wonder for years WTF is Cloud? A level 1 Shinra Guard tanks the Masamune stab and then Hulk tosses the highly trained eldritch horror that is Sephiroth. My head canon is Cloud has some degree of telekinetic power, displayed in his ability to use massive swords and from his limit breaks, such as Blade Beam, Climhazzard, Meteor Rain and of course Finishing Touch. These limit breaks display a force projection power far beyond the Ki abilities of Tifa and Yuffie. He doesn't even summon real meteors, it looks more like he gathers together debris in the area, compacts it and launches it at the enemy at high speeds.
From what I understand (and I could be wrong here), Cloud was actually already extremely strong and skilled with a sword but failed his entrance to Soldier for other reasons. Without receiving mako injections, he was already strong enough to pick up and wield Zack's buster sword which is a massive feat by itself right there. It wasn't that he wasn't physically strong, it was that he lacked mental strength.
When he tanked the masamune stab, he had already effectively mortally wounded Sephiroth with a surprise attack from behind with the buster sword so Sephiroth was already very weakened at that point and Cloud got an adrenaline boost from his anger at seeing everybody in his hometown wiped out.
Talking online with so many recent fans who think they understand this story but have such a literal reading this is a breath of fresh air. So much of it is ambiguous, open to interpretation, operates on multiple layers, and yes is intentionally unknowable
That’s the sad truth of Sephiroth’s character.To quote a certain CEO of a major company “You are not a god. You are simply bad product”
Holy shit I never realized how alike homelander and Sephiroth are until now
@IceTenjho11 You really know nothing about Sephiroth. A person who has demigod abilities and now confirmed to control and create timelines and you're trying to compare him to a flop character like homelander is fucking hilarious.
@@elizabethchint2391I mean yeah, Sephiroth is leagues more powerful than Homelander could ever be, but OP’s got a point. They were both treated as less “human” and more “product”
I’m not saying he’s not powerful, I’m saying their situations are similar. They both were created by a company. They were both robbed a childhood. They both seeked a new identity, trying their best to feel superior to others, claiming to be gods. But in the end of the day, they were products. Just another victim of Vought and Shinra.
@@elizabethchint2391 lil buddy, Sephiroth aint gonna be your mate because you defended his honour. There are narrative parallels is what OP meant.
My Interpretation is always connected to what to me are the key messages on Shinra (Capitalist Critique/ Environmentalism) and Cloud (Identiy). Cloud, in pretending something he isn't represents a pretty common feeling that many feel (Especially men in regards to identity and what "men should be like") Having to pretend, fake it til you make it, feelings of inadequateness and being a failure. Sephiroth on the other hand, quite literally crafted by the status quo and the systemic oppressiion (Represented by Shinra)
What I found really intriguing in Rebirth (Only tiny spoiler) is that little line Hojo gives about what a Hero should be and how he has to look, it really fits in amazingly with what Sephiroth is, a blank slate of a person, in fact, not even really human, but told, raised and bred to be what he turned into, a War hero, someone everyone looked up to, who was gorgeous and fit right into the narrative Shinra (The dominant power in that society) wanted. This obviously fostered the feelings of being Special into Sephiroth, but he wasn't really, everything that he was told is that he was special, a war hero, but he knew something was rotten and wrong about that, only to delude himself deeper into the false promise of actually being special, a cetra, and not the perverse creation of unfettered desire to control and expand by a totalitarian Company.
This is really the counter opposite of Cloud believing he is not special at all, deluding himself into being someone he thought better,, while deep down his empathetic, caring, anxious and shy self was always present and in turn is why everyone grows to like Cloud, while Sephiroth entirely gave in this false narrative that was spun to him, and in this delusion of being special wanting more and more.
I am ranting a bit, I never really ordered these thoughts and its more of my personal interpretation of this very interesting dynamic between Sephiroth and Cloud, that while always antagonistic, had this air aboout it that we should see these two characters as two sides of the same coin in terms of how they struggled with their very identity.
Fantastic Video! I'm really looking forward to your Cloud character analysis as well.
The Identity crisis element is the real key to understanding what made the Cloud vs Sephiroth rivalry so compelling beyond just the classic Hero vs Villain tropes. It's what really makes Sephiroth the hero's shadow in this story. (Something that I think the Compilation and Remake titles have lost along the way.) You don't see this aspect of Sephiroth discussed as much, but I feel that it's absolutely CRITICAL to understanding him as a villain.
Pre-Nibelheim he is led to believe that he's just "special". That he earned his status through his superior battle prowess. He was just so much better than the rest. He was practically untouchable, and he and everyone else knew it. But at this point, we can still see this as primarily Shinra's fault. That by treating him with such importance and high status that they massively inflated his ego. However...
During the Nibelheim incident he's confronted with the possibility that he actually might just be an experiment. That he might not have earned his status as the greatest SOLDIER ever purely through superior talent and skill. That he may have been genetically engineered to be that way from birth. This moment shattered his identity, but lucky for him, he found professor Gast's (inaccurate) research that allowed him to believe that he and Jenova were Cetra. Something that would allow him to claim that he was not just superior to all of his peers, but to all of humanity.
Basically, when confronted with the idea that he might not be "the best of the best" based on his own efforts, he latched on to the first piece of evidence he could find that would still allow him to believe he was superior to everyone else... and then he instantly made that his new identity.
And then he does the exact same thing, AGAIN, when he drifts through the life stream and sides with Jenova. But this time it's a new justification that allows him to believe he's not just superior to all of humanity, but all living things in the world. As he decides to absorb the very essence of their being into himself. Like a Vampire sucking the life blood of an entire world. It's just very clear to me that even if you see certain aspects of Sephiroth's origin story as sympathetic/tragic, the real purpose of him as a Villain is to be a symbolic representation of completely unchecked ego/Narcissism.
In contrast, when Cloud's identity is shattered by Sephiroth at the Northern Crater, the only way he can recover is when Tifa eventually helps him to pick up the pieces. With her encouragement he's able to remember and accept that he never made it into SOLDIER, that he wasn't special or superior compared to his peers. He had to check his ego and accept himself for who he truly was. The sad part is that Sephiroth didn't have someone like Tifa in his life at that critical moment who could relate to him and steer him back on the right path. So he ultimately chose the path of Ego/Selfishness, because that's how he was raised to be.
I believe this is what actually gives the Cloud vs Sephiroth rivalry it's thematic depth. (Which imo has been lost in the Sequels/Remakes). When faced with the idea that their sense of superiority was built on lies, one of them kept clinging to the idea that he must still be superior to others somehow, and became the villain. But the other acknowledged that his feeling of superiority was just masking his insecurity, and he accepted his own weaknesses as a part of his identity and became the hero. And in the end, the weaker one who was actually able to check his ego surpassed the stronger one who couldn't accept anyone else as an equal.
But I feel like this core thematic point has been lost on like 80% of the fanbase due to the characters' portrayals in the Compilation, Kingdom Hearts, and Remake media. So many fans getting into FF7 now just seem to think: "Sephiroth has always been obsessed with Cloud since he lost to him at Nibelheim 5 years ago. He wants his revenge. So that's why they have to fight all the time."
The original story concepts and themes have become obfuscated and confused with all the Compilation/Kingdom Hearts/Remake stuff. Videos like yours are very important analysis of how the story was originally portrayed and intended. Thank you!
I love the perspective but I always viewed sephiroth as a more tragic villain. I think that jenova did a mind break to sephiroth the same way sephiroth did to cloud. Sephiroth just wasn't as successful as jenova was. I think that at this point there isn't much of a difference between sephiroth and jenova, that jenova has completely subsumed sephiroth. Also, sephiroth/jenova absolutely won at the end of the game. They may have lost the battle, but it doesn't matter at that point because sephiroth has already poisoned the life stream and that's what geostigma is
Devs have also said that the original game's timeline ends with humanity being eradicated. Still not Jenova's full plan, since she wants the destruction of all life, but still not the "good ending" a lot of players assumed
I agree with this. People talk all the time about how Sephiroth dominated Jenova's will. But did he?
My take ever since I played the game has been that Sephiroth at best was able to become a sort of equal parts gestalt consciousness of himself and his genetic mother, a human avatar. His personality, his body, his memories, but Jenova's will has clearly twisted his motives.
After the Nibelheim Mansion, Sephiroth was never the same, and especially post timeskip he and his motives are completely different. He has changed from an internally tortured hero, to a madman, to a being seeking to end the planet, just as his 'mother' did. He begins using the same abilities as 'her' to control and warp minds, twist bodies, etc. His own plan even involves mutating himself beyond recognition just as Jenova does.
I personally believe Sephiroth was the first, and greatest, casualty of the Reunion, and is driven by the same primal, mimetic instincts for control, destruction, Reunion and propagation. Hojo unwittingly created the perfect harbinger of the calamity; a human host.
The single biggest example of why I believe this is in Advent Children. There, he specifically states that at this point he purely shares the same exact motive as Jenova.
This may be a crap analogy, but it's the best one I can think of at the moment for how I see the Sephiroth vs Jenova debate:
Think of an addict, a drunk, or anyone else with a dependency. They'll tell you to the moon and back. "I'm in control, I'm doing this of my own volition." But by the contrary, everything they do, every decision they make, is driven by that need, that imperative.
Not to say Sephiroth is addicted to Jenova. 😆 Jist the best example i could think of of someone who can't help but be driven by an need beyond their control.
@@Neo-Midgar I agree, I think JENOVA took advantage of his fractured mind and then established a mutual connection between them. Sephiroth controls JENOVA as a puppet, yes. But I'd like to think JENOVA is also keeping her claws in his brain as he happily commits atrocities for his "mother."
This was literally everything I wanted! Sephiroth has been my favorite antagonist since I was 8 and a full on breakdown of his character from a narrative perspective FOR A FULL HOUR was everything I wanted and more.
Literally when I go on dates with people, I talk about Sephiroth (bitches have autism). This was an incredible breakdown of his character. An additional reminder of why I fell in love with your content!
@Cranzon-qw9od oh yeah, Sephiroth in recent games has become somewhat of a characature of himself rather than embodying the actual aspects of himself that made him narratively compelling. Funny enough, I’d argue that Caius Ballad from FFXIII-2 is probably the best villain in the franchise but even if blinded by nostalgia in someways, I love this character ,and by extension, this video
@Cranzon-qw9odI like Sephiroth because of his desing, song, his tragic backstory and he feels a lot like a horror villain, Sephiroth is like Darth Vader but for videogames imo.
He definitively isn't the most well written character in the series or media, but he's so simple yet so interesting and appealing, his dynamics with Cloud also make him stand-out a lot from other villains.
If I had to take a guess as to why Sephiroth doesn't speak in the final battle it would be because he has, on some level, either been succeeding or realized that it's not going to work and broken again.
He's spent the last four years bathed in the collective unconscious of the planet, gathering more and more fragments of the World-Soul into himself to be both healed and empowered, add onto that his continued exposure to Jenova and his cultivation of her form of life within himself, and I'm not entirely certain he's still /in there./
His ambition and goals are still alive, but he has cast off his human form, and in doing so he may have also cast aside his personality and self, all the things he does not value in others, to become something like the will of his new World-Soul, stripped down to little more than a manifested spear of Intent. And it would be done to solve the continued pain he suffers at the repeated breaking of his Identity. Because there is no Identity to break, no capacity to question himself or his purpose in a form like that.
He has everything he needs, he will become a God, and if shedding every part of himself that hurts is the price for that, he will pay it gladly.
This would contrast and mirror directly with Cloud, who instead of pivoting to center his whole world around each new thing he learned about himself, has instead had to integrate these revelations with the rest of who he is. So Sephiroth is stripped down to a single thing each time he breaks, and Cloud instead grows into being more of himself.
It would also make the way their swords are later depicted make some thematic sense, Cloud is many truths coalesced into a single whole, while Sephiroth is a single truth honed to its very edge, which, given their inspiration, would definitely track.
I think your great bret the way you offer content that is different and makes gamers appreciate their favourite protagonists and antagonists while expertly dissecting characters and plots by using literary principles as an english major i really enjoy your content and wait for every video keep it up and love from egypt❤
I've always loved the irony of Sephiroth believing he has no home town, and then proceeding to burn his home town to the ground.
I've played this game for decades and never caught that. Thank you for your wisdom Wallace
Jenova’s influence over people really reminds me of hive mind entity where instead of being each person she can influence those with weak wills or jump into them and use them as an avatar for her monstrous forms.
Great video on one of the best villains to grace the genre and my favourite game ever. Just a couple of points though.
- The first time you 'meet' Sephiroth face to face in OG is actually on the ship from Junon to Costa Del Sol. (Although technically this isn't Sephiroth...so you could actually say the first time is at the Northern crater when Cloud gives his physical body the black material).
- Also, Sephiroth is definitely using the Jenova cells in Clouds body to control him, not just pure willpower. If he could do that he would just do it to everyone.
Great video though. Really enjoyed it and the focus on the theme of identity and how Clouds identity crisis mirrors most people struggle with their ego. A lot of gamers and critics miss this and I think it's one of the key points that make this game amazing.
To be honest the true antagonist of FF7 is Hojo, Sephiroth falls because of him.
And exists because of him, at that. Hojo may not be the scientist who started Jenova research; but he's the man who was consumed by it, who couldn't stop.
Gast, as we discover latter, had a crisis of morality- he wanted to stop, so on. Which is why he is killed.
And Hojo, Hojo never hesitates to push even further than before...
I guess that’s what the Joker says. “All it takes is One Bad Day.”
I think in general the most tragic part of Sephiroth's character is had he not found out about the jenova project and snapped he would have been a good guy
At least with the Compilation, Sephiroth was literally one mission off from putting off Shinra for good. That makes his villainy even more tragic; he literally was going to blow off Shinra and be a normal person because they saw what they did to Angeal and Genesis.
He was also shown to, prior to that, to be basically someone who was just following the path laid out for them, seeking a deeper sense of purpose.
Someone who had just lost his two best friends, and Zack was basically the closest he had left- and their relationship was inherently strained.
Because Zack was both his friends student- and the man who killed him. There's a contrasted duality in that.
So of course. He's in a massive state of emotional vulnerability, a cross roads in life, when Jenova strikes.
I guess this then technically means god-complex Sephiroth is really just permanent psychotic-break Sephiroth, given he hastily constructs his god complex over six days, and then is forced by Lifestream mechanics to maintain his god complex and obsession over Cloud both in OG FF7 and Advent Children
This game sent me down a fun rabbit hole learning about esoteric traditions when I was a kid, life changing really. The intro/recap to Rebirth is something else man, I dreamed about having a game like this back then
I first subbed for the Last of Us essays. Now your covering my all time fav? Let's freaking go dude!
Should mention in regards to Shinra. They aren't 'more powerful than the government'. They are the government. The security that serve in Midgar is Shinra's private military. In this way, Shinra is basically a Corporatocracy.
I forgot how absolutely fantastic your style of documentary psychological analysis what have you is. After this I'm going to go back and re-watch that Metroid Prime video
An hour plus of a calm voice telling me Sephiroth's story is just a win.
YOUR DOING FINAL FANTASY VILLAINS 😱😱😱
An amazing day
We need Kefka next
I was like 1 hour video, crazy. But hell I finished watching without skipping. Incredible detail and thoroughly explained. Thank you so much.
I really like Sephiroth because I see him as a victim of Shinra. He was treated as an asset instead of human. He had no life outside Shinra, no family or so isolated. So eventually he would snap with enough pressure.
Everyone always blames Nomura for the wackier final fantasy stories but that's not true, he gets his jollies off with Kingdom Hearts. No, it's Nojima who we need to look to for the real storyteller. I'm glad he is writing the remake trilogy so there is consistency with all the characterizations, when you include all the compilation you see Sephiroth constantly trying to reinvent himself, his ego never accepting being less than the best.
@supremefankai5480 You do understand that it's Nojima and Kitase doing coming up with the multiverse and whispers and the one who decided to show Sephiroth early? It was Hamaguchi himself who had to stop them from coming up with more terrible ideas like trying to change the design of the reactors. Nomura just green lit everything. Nomura himself even wanted to keep Sephiroth hidden. Please do some research before jumping on the blame Nomura bandwagon.
@@elizabethchint2391 uh, I don't know what you read but I wasn't blaming Nomura for anything, I said that it was Nojima doing the writing.
FatBrett Gang where u at
We on the Fatbrett channel rn
Here.
We are FatBrett
Hell yeah brother
Boomshakslaq
My head canon on why Sephiroth also has his break is his sudden close proximity to Jenova
Another video described him as a walking contradiction and it stuck with me. He looks young, but has white/gray hair, he looks masculine and feminine at the same time, he looks menacing and heroic, he comes off as evil and angelic. Never noticed and acknowledged that before.
One very minor correction: A few times you refer to the planet as "Earth," when it's actually not called that in-game or out of game. In game, it's exclusively "the planet," but it has been referred to as "Gaia" in some outside material.
Fantastic video. Despite spending a lot of time analyzing this video, this video provided some insights, perspectives, and theories I had never heard before. Looking forward to your video on Cloud!
Great video! I really enjoyed your breakdown of Sephiroth. I am excited to see you analysis on other characters and your thoughts to how it pertains to each character in Rebirth.
Another point about the info sephiroth finds is that hojo seems to have very intentionally made sure sephiroth would find it. Not hard to believe hojo would also edit documents, remove certain texts, and leave extra red herrings to ensure there’s no way he won’t snap
Really the true villains of FF7 were Shinra, sephiroth was the unforeseen consequence of Shinra's greed.
One other thing that wasn’t really mentioned as much in this video is Advent children. That film along with “on the way to a smile” novel really set up a lot with Sephiroth, just being a permanent force in the world.
Even after his massive defeat, he is still such a huge and dangerous threat if he ever shows up. Which is why I’m loving the story stuff going on in the remake series
I still remember walking through K-Mart with my mom... I got $60 in birthday money and I saw this game for 49.99 on the shelf
I picked it, and that was it... Still hooked to this day
Sephiroth is so underrated, yes, *UNDERrated.* Most people basically just hate on him because he's popular and not as good (Or at least not as fun) as Kefka, but he is a pretty interesting character and villain too. Stoicism is a personality trait, it's whether or not they show signs of emotion that determines whether or not the writers forgot to give them a personality, and Sephiroth does show those signs.
And about the anger at him getting in Smash over Kefka: Kefka's not getting in until Terra gets in, though I'd absolutely welcome it.
How could you not bring up his theme song just to prove the point how powerful he is.
Your breakdown took me back and added to the experience. Well done.
I think the reason why Sephiroth doesn't speak during the final battle is because this fight is not important to him. He truly believes in the idea that your energy keeps existing in the life stream when you die and that you just keep going --- and he's right. He comes back in Advent Children through geostigma and faces Cloud again. In that fight, Cloud defeats Sephiroth but Sephiroth again doesn't seem to care. His words, "I will never be a memory," indicate that no matter what you do, he will find a way to come back and he proved it once already.
Lifestream:Black tells us how Sephiroth keeps coming back, though
I have completed FF7 many times since 1997. And I still love to listen to these hour long synopsis videos 😍❤️
Thank you for your effort
What I like (or technically, love to hate) about Sephiroth is that his motives are based on inconclusive findings that might not even be based in fact in the first place, yet he's so up himself that he commits to the bit instantly.
It takes an unbelievably awful person to think that highly of oneself that just a tiny bit of confirmation bias is enough to make them act on it to such an extreme extent.
That's what makes him so frightening in concept. He is the personification of ignorant jingoism.
He was raised in a lab. With powers. What else would you expect?!?!
He's also had the cells of an alien lifeforms injected into him, an alien life form that has psychic powers. Psychic powers wich the game goes to great length to demonstrate can have profound impacts on the mental state and actions of the people who have been exposed to it.
Sephiroth was created in a lab and constantly told about how he was supposed to be a killing machine and the best SOLDIER of all, he was treated like Superman by Shinra and all he knew was pretty much killing and the fact that he was supposed to be above everyone else and with all that, an Evil Alien gene within himself, Sephiroth's insanity and arrogance was fueled by Hojo and Shinra from his creation.
@@renren47618Yeah, being half Hojo didn't help. Hojo was a callously hubristic tosspot in his own right _without_ the influence of Jenova, so now add the ambitions of a malevolent alien being and, well, you get a selfish A-hole with beautiful hair.
@@renren47618 I think Susan's bots instantly deleted my reply so I'll try again.
Yeah, being half Hojo did not help. He was a very bad person without Jenova's influence, and while Jenova isn't so much Sephiroth's literal mother as much as he was genetically modified after it, that certainly wouldn't have been a good combination.
It would be like if Myra Hindley had Charles Manson's baby, and then that baby was fasttracked up the ranks in the military, then one day read a bunch of forum posts that said "Charles Manson Jr. might be a god" and he instantly believed it.
Still a big fan of you outro music, nothing better to end a deep analysis then twilight princess after boss music. Well done
I personally believe that the theory of Jenova being a Sin Spawn is correct. One that somehow escaped the destruction of Sin itself. In that case it's likely that Sephiroth overpowered Jenova due to being sapient. The Sin Spawn themselves are clearly no more intelligent than most animals. As is depicted in Final Fantasy 10, Sin is on the same level as humans (which is obvious given it's origin) and the Sin Spawn act on instinct alone.
Sephiroth is such a complicated compelling character in my opinion bc he didn’t have to be the villain. He wasn’t necessarily pre ordained to be the villain. Yet through even the original game, and more so the tie in games, we see how event after event, tragedy after tragedy he is cut further and further from humanity. Some by personal choice, other times that he had no choice. Jenova took advantage of his shying away from the pain, but then was consumed too. No mother , he probably knew about Hojo, Gast left. Hojo was.... Hojo. His friends abandoned him....what comfort and care did humanity provide? Between those that abandoned or are Hojo and a space parasite which promises to never leave .....not many would cling to Hojo.
Like good storytelling, Cloud through circumstances and machination has a story that strongly mirrors Sephiroth , but Cloud had companions that wouldn’t abandon him, without dying. For all of Sephiroth’s advantages, its friendship that proves to be the strongest force on their planet and Cloud wins bc of it. Sephiroth can’t see friendship as a factor bc he never had it, not really. At least not any form that didn’t cause him pain.
In embracing Jenova, he runs from and cuts off his humanity, his pain. Losing to what he cut off bc it was painful for him. ...Cloud may have been the successful experiment between the two afterall.
Ive been looking forward to this! I used to have the chorus of One Winged Angel as my cellphone ringtone!
i remember when he threw the green materia: I was like...why did he throw a tennis ball at me
@@darkservantofheavenPerhaps he wanted a snowball fight?
Damn, I love your analysis videos. Can’t wait for the next one!
Final Fantasy 7: Identity Crisis
I would _love_ a video on Kefka, my personal favorite villain in the FF series, but I understand if you'd not want to make a project on something where you only have 16-bit footage to work with lol.
Problem is that in ff6 Kefka is simply evil. There is no path there on why he became that way. He simply wants to become god by amy means necessary. Not sure how anyone could write his origin story. In ff7 we do get sephiroth origin afterall.
Kefka ACTUALLY WINS. Sephiroth got very close, but Kefka managed to split the world apart.
@@spardasquadspqr3535exactly why I prefer Sephiroth over Kefka
@@ImPrettySureThisIsMax Now imagine what Sephiroth could accomplish if he would play silent game as Kefka did. This mocking Cloud, killing Aerith made him lose in yhe end.
kefka snapped because the process of turning people into magitek knights was deeply flawed and kefka mentally snapped and broke. it's talked about in game. he was probably already bad even before that what with being a higher up in the empire but that made him worse and truly an evil being.
It's interesting to see that in FF7 Remake and Rebirth, Sephiroth has actually succeeded in merging/overwriting the lifestream with his own soul. He takes over a faction of the whispers, which are a fundamental protector of the lifestream and it's course through time.
MewTwo: This path you walk. Vengeance. You will find no peace. I know.
I cannot remember where I first saw it, but I remebr seeing Cloud and Sephiroth's artwork for the game and I was immediately intrigued. Playing through the first time, seeing that flash back terrified me when I was younger. I can really appreciate the mystique and symbolism he carroes with him. A one-winged angel of death.
I've always interpreted Jenova as something very similar to Lavos from Chrono Trigger. Who is another example of cosmic horror. But where Lavos was used to show the underlying way unknown factors influence the course of history, Jenova is used to illustrate the confusion at the heart of a lack of identity. We know next to nothing about Jenova and so Sephiroth rooting his identity in this unknowable malicious thing. Ensures he will never truly know himself. The only way for sephiroth to have known himself is to embrace his humanity because that is rooted in something tangeable. Jenova is so beyond anyone's understanding that trying to be Jenova only makes Sephiroth into a confused monster.
The thing about Cloud's mind control, is that it IS Jenova's cells doing it. Even without the compilation's additions, In the original 7, Cloud and Zack were both infused with Jenova Cells, and much like the numbers, Cloud was always under Jenova's control. The first time we see this is when the projection of Cloud's thoughts are huddled in the corner, and when you talk to it, it starts muttering incoherent (at the time) things. "You can't change anything by sitting back and looking at it" and "Wake Up." The second line is shared by the "Sephiroth" that takes the Black Materia, and has Cloud beat Aerith.
In fact, besides the Nibel flashback, We've not once seen Sephiroth, since he died in the reactor. He was never at the Northern Crater, He wasn't the one we fought at the end. From the second you jump into the point of no return, once Jenova's Theme starts playing to the ending cutscene, We've been fighting the Entirety of the Calamity from the Skies. But when you fight Jenova-SYNTHESIS, it's not her theme, it's not a theme that's a darker reprise of her normal otherworldly theme. It's a Corruption of the Main Battle Theme, "Those who Fight." It's Not even the Boss theme of "Those who Fight On." Jenova Complete isn't even in the Same time signature of Jenova's Theme. You wanna know what is? "Birth of a God" The theme for Bizzaro Sephiroth. But why?
That's because the "Sephiroth" we've been dealing with the entire game and even the final boss, wasn't Sephiroth. It was the Calamity From the Sky. Remember, Jenova is the name they gave it. Its entire plan was detailed to us. It will become one with the planet, take up all of the planet's knowledge and life. Why would it ever keep the same form it had when it first arrived, if it's taking all the life, knowledge and power of the world? Thus, the shed corpse that made up Jenova-SYNTHESIS was discarded and nothing more than a husk. The "Sephiroth" Body you see in that doesn't talk and keeps blasting your party is the new form of The Calamity from the Sky. It doesn't talk, because it doesn't need to. It knows all of the Knowledge of the World has ever known, what could talking to you ever accomplish now? Once you destroy Bizzaro Sephiroth, You hear the Cry of the World. It's in pain again, because Bizzaro Sephiroth (A wierd mashup of Sephiroth's form in the structure and shape of Jenova) hatched. From it, drawing on the knowledge and limitless bounds of the Lifestream, is Safer Sephiroth.
Once you defeat Safer Sephiroth, Cloud's very mind and soul, and only him because he's the only one infested the virus in the Jenova Cells that were poured into him, is pulled into the Lifestream, as The Calamity tries to take over his body again. This time he's able to win, dispersing The Calamity to the Lifestream, finally "Killing" it.
The above was all based on info we get in the original game, alone. With the Compilation, we get even more information, with Crisis Core showing us who the Real Sephiroth was, how he was actually friendly with people, until his best friends both died due to genetic experimentation, and finding out he TOO was one of these experiments. How, Sephiroth was still friendly enough to learn about Cloud, a faceless mook security force member and not even a faceless SOLDIER mook, just to ask him some questions about Nibel and tell him to go out and see his friends in town. Or, how in the Advent Children, the Memetic legacy of Sephiroth caused the next time the Calamity tried its hand at resurgence, It took his form, the current 'perfect form' it created from the knowledge it had access to (Kadaj's thoughts and memories). The Advent Children Sephiroth even flatly says that he'll turn the world into a barren husk, and ride it like Jenova did to a new world. It is flatly saying that is its goal. Even Dirge of Cerberus gets in on this, with the Calamity's Memetic legacy (Kill the planet and move on to a new world) having been completely implanted into the World itself, as after the Calamity was first defeated, it had created the WEAPONs, including the Omega WEAPON, which was designed to suck up the purest of lifestream to create its body and take what pure lifestream was left and fly off to a seed a new world, leaving the corrupted dying Lifestream to crumble away, And the main villain of Dirge of Cerberus, HOJO, plans on doing just that, so he can complete his "Son's" goal of eating the world and moving on to the next.
TL;DR: The very reason it seems like Sephiroth has a complete shift in character three times in the Original FF7, is because after he died in the reactor, Sephiroth was replaced by The Calamity, using him as its new face as the pinnacle of humanity, which everyone thought he was, thus knowledge was in the Lifestream as him being the best, so it used his Form.
Hell, if that TL;DR is true, the Final Villain of the RE:FF7 Trilogy may take Clouds form, because eventually it'll be common knowledge that Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth, and thus the final battle is the original Team, With added alt reality Zack and Aerith, with an alt reality Sephiroth who played FFXVI, and learned to push L3 and R3 together and overcome his mind break.
Really the oly reason Cloud survives is he has all the info to accept the truth. Separoth never did. Really you can’t blame him for learning what he did and responding as he did. It probably also helps that the Planet was nice to cloud while being hostile to Seph despite them both being humans injected with Jenova
I think you're confusing cause and effect re: the planet being "nice". It recognized the humanity in Cloud and rejected the inhumanity in Sephiroth.
I've always loved to think that Jenova and the species that she belongs to developed on a planet with a similar lifestream system and became adept at absorbing and consuming lifestream energy and, when their host planet is completely drained of life, creating a meteor from it's husk to hurl themselves through space to find a new planet to infect and consume. With how Jenova used illusions of dead ancients to fool the living ones she was likely tapping into and using echoes from the lifestream of the planet to craft them. And I think the reason why she seems to be working with and not resisting Sephiroth is just that he is an excellent active pawn to help feed her and continue the cycle. There's honestly no guarantee Jenova's species have humanoid forms or forms that are recognizable at all and only assumed such shapes when she began sifting through the lifestream for illusory concepts.
Unrelated to Sephiroth- but it took me seeing it again in rebirth for this connection to click for me. A lot of the characters parallel and mirror complement and contrast each other in overlapping ways in this game. I never noticed before the similarity between Nanaki and Cloud in that both of them are mentally teenage boys donning a way of acting and speaking to be a cooler older man in control to be taken seriously.
It genuinely took hearing it in voice acting for that to click.
Fantastic video! Very much looking forward to the one covering Cloud!
May just not have had time to go into depth about the Judeo-Christian mythos of the Sefirot, but not only is it “godly” but it is literally defined as the “path to godhood” which is exactly what he is trying to do.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefirot#:~:text=The%20sefirot%20are%2010%20emanations,one%20God%20reveals%20His%20will.
Also I’d like to add another mechanical element the game uses to make you feel just how overmatched Sephiroth is. The line Cloud delivers in Kalm “Sephiroth is far stronger in reality than any legend you have ever heard” is probably the most badass way of describing the unknowable power of a being outside C’Thulu. That line has stuck with me since I was 8…
Also, directly after Kalm, you have the chocobo ranch to run past the Midgar Zolom. This is a fun, nothing part of the game for most people, because it’s light hearted and funny and Cinco de Choco plays, and yay funny Nausicaä of the wind reference. But that is because, like most people fuck around and find out at least once…if you don’t go the Chocobo route, you get attacked by a giant goddamn serpent trying to make it to the cave who absolutely demolishes you. It cannot possibly be won at the usual level, and you only don’t game over because he punts a character off screen so someone lives and you learn “okay, so invincible snake is not the way to go”.
However, as soon you cross the marsh and enter the mythril caves, you see another Zolom casually hefted and impaled on a splintered tree. The thing that just showed you as a party are absolutely going to die if you fight it, has been casually curb stomped by Sephiroth, off screen, with zero effort or pomp and circumstance. It’s one of the moments in 7 of which there are many (Aeris being most peoples healer) where the GAME uses the language of GAME MECHANICS to tell you “this is a motherfucker you absolutely cannot beat…good luck with all that”
Love the video; keep up the good work
On Rebirth this was done SO BADLY.
Sephiroth appears out of nowhere and 'saves' Cloud from the Midgar Zolom and it's show him Impaling it on a cutscene, it takes away so much from the storytelling and makes it so shallow, FF7R has a lot of these in fact.
It saddens me how in 1997 they did most of the story parts way better than on 2024, especially considering that the people working on FF7R are mostly the same guys who worked on the original.
Very obviously, godly stories are created only once in a lifetime and in a particular mindset, a mindset that will never come back.
It's explained though- though not blatantly. You encounter the Zolom chasing one of the Sephiroth Clones, the 'black robed men'- who we know from the original, that Sephirith can use to manifest himself. Ect.
Now to consider- the why of this.
It's because they made Remake and Rebirth with it in mind; that you'd already played the original. It's meant as a sequel in that sense;
With it in mind that the build up and progress and characterization from the original happened- and there's no point being subtle and slow any more.
So they do the scene differently; they show a clone, and then show Sephiroth interfering. Ect.
Because in Remake/Rebirth, Sephiroth seems to have a far higher interest in gaslighting and manipulating Cloud, warping his mindset, sowing doubt, so on.
Coincidentally, one of the Kabbalah is Tiferet. Tifa. Coincidence?
This was truly fascinating. Thank you for the upload
Sephy is awesome and all but I always liked Kefka more.
For me the silence in sepiroth final boss is the culmination of him becoming a eldritch being.
Perhaps he is speaking but is so utterly alien that we cannot even perceive as a language..
Pity what they've done to him in Rebirth
You've got a great storytelling voice. I enjoy the videos you make.
I hate what they did with Seph in the Remake. He's so unsubtle and creepy now, rather than the horror villain turned would-be god he was in the OG. Way overused and sort of anime villain cliche. It's a shame, because his OG introduction from Midgar all the way to the Temple of Ancients is so damn effective. He was legit scary and yet sympathetic. Even now I can't help but feel a bit for him when Cloud tells his story, knowing what monsters he had to deal with all his life. Not surprising he'd become a monster with how they used him.
The thing is remake Sephiroth is advent children Sephiroth. Remake is basically a sequel to the og ff7.
@@dmg6672 I know. And I feel that Remake would've been far superior as an actual remake rather than this weird meta abomination it turned into. All most of us wanted was the game we loved with modern graphics, a better translation, and maybe a little more time with the characters, since OG was extremely limited by technology of its time. Stuff like going with Jessie to worker housing was fine, even though I wasn't personally a big fan of Roche. That's the sort of thing I'd have liked them to focus on. Instead they, strangely, ran with the actual OG characterizations of most of the heroes juxtaposed with the flanderized version of Sephiroth from the compilation. At least they didn't force emo Cloud, feisty Tifa, and saintly Aerith on us again ...
Just some really incomprehensible decision-making, IMO.
I do at least like the meta things Sephiroth is doing if only because Sephiroth has been established since the beginning that he wants his victory by any means in FF7, and if they were to go meta this is how they would do it, but on the other hand the initial intrigue of Sephiroth, which is literally most of the plot until Cloud gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth, is now lost, especially because you now need to know that Sephiroth has lost thrice against Cloud, and knows that Cloud relies on his friends to get him through his identity crisis that causes Cloud to be manipulable, and thus tries to break his friendship off. It is unexpectedly very FF16-ish.