**Max's Levels Guide** Introduction to the levels: 26:00 Level 1: 30:33 Level 2: 32:10 Butterfly Effect: 34:25 Level 3: 52:40 Ben's last stand against Max: 54:39 - 55:45 Bridge to Level 4: 1:00:25 Mind blown: 1:06:00 - 1:10:25 Brain Expansion Begins; The Constant: 1:11:00 The Whispers' Identity: 1:12:35 False Control 1:14:10 Brain Expansion Evolution and Confidence: 1:15:00 Zack's Potential Role: 1:18:40 False Hope: 1:22:00 Level 4: 1:23:00 BIG BRAIN: 1:24:00 - 1:27:30 Potential holes in the theory, but also evidence to support it: 1:27:40 Kyle's Explanation of the Beauty of the Remake: 1:28:50 - 1:31:00 Max's Confidence in Amplification of Original Story Beats: 2:18:30 - 2:19:50 Concluding Thoughts; Entering the Lifestream: 2:29:50
I was disappointed at first because max wasn’t talking a lot... I came to specifically hear him talk. Then he got on a roll, and I was like Jesus max, let someone else talk!
This is a man who, an hour and a half after the credits roll on his playthrough, was still going on about his interpretations of the ending to his twitch chat.
I love how everyone in Easy Allies crew was thinking this is gonna be another regular Spoiler Mode episode and Max came in and basically said “Hold my Cosmo Canyon”
The deep dive with Max. Is on another level. The most fascinating thing, is that he is right. This trilogy is going to deliver so many feels, none of us are ready
The Ultimania guide came out in Japan on the 28th and confirms a bunch of this speculation. It comes *just shy* of confirming that Zack's victory occurs in a new timeline, pointing out the different Stamp and stating that the two contradictory versions of Cloud can't exist in the same space and time, and asking the reader to speculate on what this could mean. It confirms that the named Whispers' "fighting styles" are the same as Sephiroth's remnants, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, and moreover, in the Japanese version Whisper Croceo actually has a move named Velvet Nightmare, after Yazoo's guns. It confirms that Aerith has knowledge of the future, though implies that her understanding is fragmentary -- likely because of the Whispers touch (as she mentions, every time they touch her she loses something). It explains explicitly what the Whispers are trying to achieve in each scene they appear in, or rather, what changes they are trying to prevent. It also explains that there are four different incarnations of Sephiroth in the game, and explains what each is when it appears. In most cases, he is either a 1.) hallucination only seen by Cloud, or 2.) a vision of the past that Cloud is remembering. In the Shinra HQ, he's 3.) the cloaked men taking on his appearance to steal Jenova's body, as in the original game, which is why they can be seen by everyone. Finally, on the highway and in the Singularity, Sephiroth is 4.) a new, mysterious incarnation of Sephiroth, who speaks to Cloud with a tone of familiarity, different from the rest.
Nice! I heard they also confirmed in an Ultimania interview that the next parts of the Remake would continue to mainly follow the story of FFVII and wouldn't go in a completely different direction as some people had feared. And I heard Nomura also said the parts would be smaller and more detailed in order to speed up development. Do you know if all that's true?
@@Xackadee Yeah, Nojima basically says it's still a remake, so they need to have all the story beats players are loking forward to. Nomura was more so saying that they can either break it up into more episodes to complete and release them more quickly, or make them longer and spread out the releases more. Either way the goal seems to be to maintain this level of quality, which means they can't feasibly make the releases annual.
@@SuzakuX I'd normally be vehemently against this kind of release cycle but this is the one rule to the exception. I honestly can't even fathom having to wait another 3-5 years for the next part. I'm not entirely sure people will even remain interested for that long. I think an annual release that's maybe 15 hours long at least is acceptable.
It explains why every reviewer with a podcast wanted him on to talk about it, the dude is in love with FF7, he thoroughly loves and appreciates everything about it, so the dude can passionately explain it so well to get you into that shit
Well to be fair, if you pay any sort of attention to the story. which Nomura did NOT WRITE by the way. It's not all that hard to understand. Sure I have like 4 theories about sephiroth and the whispers and they're all plausible which annoys me. But for what we get we get a base understanding.
Just beat hard mode and I was fighting Sephiroth with Aerith. He killed her in that last fight and says "ahh the memories". He definitely knows everything about the original events. Zero doubts now.
i beat ff7r when it came out, fucking loved it so much, just finished the og yesterday, fucking loved it, watched this, and now i wanna play the remake again
here's the topic : 32:05 LEVEL 1 THEORY (COMMON) 32:35 LEVEL 2 THEORY (UNCOMMON) 50:40 LEVEL 3 THEORY (RARE) 52:20 LEVEL 3 THEORY MAX (RARE) 1:05:57 THEORY ABOUT JESSIE 1:06:49 MORE LEVEL 3 THEORY (RARE) 1:12:45 ABOUT 3 WHISPER BOSS 1:23:50 HUGE BRAIN THEORY LEVEL 3 1:26:33 FF7 REMAKE POSTER KEYART 1:27:03 LEVEL 4 MAX'S BIG BRAIN THEORY 2:02:20 WHO IS CHADLY Fcking love this podcast, these theories so interesting to listen. Thanks guys
This has been easily the BEST post game discussion. The level of perspective discussed to create new forms of appreciation for the game are fantastic. Ina world that rewards haters, thank you for going against the tide and making this.
I come back to this video pretty often just to hear these 5 adults absolutely nerding out about their favorite game ever, clinging to Max's lips as if he's some sort of cult leader. I love it.
Plot twist: He is actually Sephiroth that has now transcend the game and move into the real world and is manipulating how we think so that things will play out the way he want.
I'm sure he isn't the only one out there who came up with this. I even had some idea that clearly you're working to prevent past events from occuring. I just actually didn't want to think that Sephiroth is clearly responsible for this new fate. And now, I simply cannot stop cringing.....Sephiroth has the power to travel through time now. Ohhhh boy, what a way to ruin a good thing. Only Square can pull this sort of outrageous failure off like they do.
@@CJTranceAddiction cool of you to do that dude... It will always be hard for some to adjust to change you know...glad you are somewhat coming around 👍🏿
First few minutes: Damn why aren't they letting Max talk Rest of the podcast: ULLLTTRRAAAA COMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Agreed ! My mind is blown, and I’m so excited for the future of the remake. And like they, I have more appreciation for the game now after watching this.
Seriously though I was watching this and it felt like 10 minutes. I looked at the clock in my room and 2 and a half freaking hours went by. Just started at my phone for a few minutes dumbfounded like how lol
My read on Aerlith's hesitation throughout the game is her struggling with the idea of accepting events as the planet describes. She spends the start of the game almost resolved that these things are going to happen and there is no point in fighting it, the plate is going to fall, she is going to get taken away and ultimately she is going to die because all of them are steps that need to be taken for Sephiroth to lose. But over the course of the game and her interactions with Cloud and Tifa, she starts putting her faith in the party over the planet, believing that they can find a better future and still beat Sephiroth. She dares to believe Cloud can save her to the point where she fights and kills destiny with you.
@@AJAlkaline she is trying to console Tifa while also knowing she has to make Tifa believe she can save everyone so she can get so close and then fail...
I think this is very important when you have this concept that the characters have a say in how this will all play out. My major problem with OG FF7 is that at the end, the Planet and Meteor go head to head and the story gets ambiguous despite having this much more relatable conflict between the party and Sephiroth. Now we have a story where not only Sephiroth but our own cast has the power to not only defy Destiny but to pave a future that can include humanity. It's why Red says that the vision of him and and his cubs running is a vision of tomorrow if they lose.
@@jdogg0130x2k I recall him saying he doesn't like KH because of the robotic characters (a fair point, and I like KH mostly). Proceeded to say its fine if you like it. As for the twitch hate mob . . . Yeah well that's just online mob shit that always happens everywhere unfortunately (even EZA chat, which is largely respectful devolves into that sometimes), don't let that impact your own likes and dislikes :)
One example I think they missed about Aerith's awareness of the situation and how much information she was fed from the lifestream, is how casually she walks through the slums before the plate is about to drop. She walks as she is carrying the first kid before heading to save Marlene without urgency because at that point she already knows that she is going to save her and will get out before the plate drops.
My mind just keeps being blown. I gotta do a second playthrough. There was another scene where, when Cloud meets Aerith the second time, Aerith mentions that Cloud is doing Mercenary work, and Cloud asks her how she knew that, and Aerith plays it off as just a guess. Oh man!
@@BaldorfBreakdowns You're remembering it wrong. The friendly ghost was one of the souls that the chariot had trapped. It even thanks the party after the chariot had been defeated.
Ronin 90 in the cloud trailer for smash bros 4 the dude was able to tell it was final fantasy 7 just from the first few beats of the song, the dude is a massive fucking fan
@@Ronin-kk4bt But even so he makes mistakes and people are too bedazzled to see thig. :S people are like blinded and following a prophet based on theories rather than fact. This discussion would have been way better if someone was actually more critical. People are gonna people I guess.
Long ago, we looked upon a foreboding sky. The memory of the star that threatened all, burns eternal in our hearts. In its wake, came an age of silence. Yet with each fond remembrance, we knew, those encountered, where not forgotten. That some day, we would see them again. Perhaps it was no more than wishful thinking.... But after the long calm, there are now the beginnings of a stir. The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear, but let us embrace for whatever it brings. For they are coming back, at last the promise has been made.
"FF7 Remake Ultimania" is released in Japan today. Max is right. They are Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz. It is not official that FF7R is going to be three parts. They've already started developing Part 2.
I’m rewatching this for (probably) the third time since it’s initial upload, and it just hit me how awesome of a teacher Max is. He asks questions for participation from his class and shit. What a legend.
This discussion was incredible, and made me see the game in such a new light. It also released tension, I didn't even know I was holding. Am I part of the Maximilian Dood cult now?
Yeah, I meant for that part of the story. It stays faithful to the OG disc 1 Cloud. For those who never played the original, yes I said disc 1, at least until the end of the Midgar section
I loved Cloud and Barrett's dynamic .. I know in the original these two kinda took shots at eachother but I guess in this one with that banter and stuff .. these two had such chemistry it was so good... like it just felt so Real and genuine .. I really hope they keep it going forward
I hate to say it because everyone has been giving so much praise to the VAs, but I don't think Cody Christian is a very good actor, and I think that's why some people have been getting the impression that Cloud has no personality. Too monotone and deadpan in every scene. I don't speak Japanese, but I played a bit of the game with the Jp dialogue and I found Cloud's voice actor captured the whole "guy that thinks he's really cool, but really isn't" vibe a bit better. Watch the scene where Biggs & Wedge offer to mod Cloud's sword. The tone in his voice just seems to better suit the comedy of that scene, imo.
Yeah same. I'm like max when it comes to this game but my friends just look at me like I'm nuts. Those same friends are way into sports and I dont understand why lol
Find them online join Discord or Amino even going to reddit if you want but it's much better to find few people who're more positive and open minded .. FF7 fans on reddit are more of a purist and downright rude ..
Dude, if all this theory is true, than the Cloud and everyone else got played hard by Sephiroth. Because they stopped the Whispers. Now Sephiroth is free to interfere as he sees fit. Holy shit, son.
Exactly. Sephiroth manipulated the shit outta the party getting them to destroy the whispers.... Granted the party could stand to gain by not following the OG timeline as well... But its definitely Sephiroth who stands to gain the most.
can this be one of those things in which, everyone including Sephiroth think that they are changing stuff but in reality they are just stomping on each other's feet?
Calling it now. Cloud will save Aerith at the temple and it'll be a part of Sephiroth's plan. She can't become a part of the lifestream and stop meteor. I think she's going to realize this and we're going to lose her again in a different way. Get ready for the hurt...
So if your theory is correct we'll have the joy of saving her only for her to be ripped from us in a completely new and heartbreaking way? Well let me get my tissues ready now 😔
@@darknesswave100 Probably, Sephiroth will try to murder her by Cloud himself, so that would much better explains the "mental breakdown" Cloud had in the OG game, also there wont be any need to place Ultima weapon attacking the village, neither Cloud and Tifa falling in the lifestream. That's what I think.
@@lordk4in As much as it would hurt. Am I the only one that wants a Cloud vs Aerith boss battle? Where we would control Cloud being controlled by Sephiroth because of the jenova cells.
@@juliogomesdesouza9035 hmm... what if that is another important point that causes a singularity and you have to fight off Cloud with Zack. Warm happy reunion after the fight, you think you saved aerith, and then current timeline Sephiroth from the sky. Fate is satisfied so the singularity falls apart so they go back to their own timelines with the new knowledge that more than just their planet is at risk.
This was incredible, it's like Max is leveling up as the podcast goes on and as he gets deeper into the lore. Sooner or later he's going to reach limit break
Right after Chadley's secret gets revealed, he leaves the party with one final line: "It's wonderful not knowing what to expect." This is essentially what I feel after finishing and subsequently replaying the remake, there's just a constant tease from the devs from absolutely everything!
Also, very early in the game Biggs offers to modify Cloud’s sword, to which he at first declines. Biggs responds: “You some kind of purist? I know I’d never pass up a chance to improve my gear.” They really are using every opportunity to tell us the players that they aren’t going for a copy of the original. Everything from discreet hints to blatantly telling us in the end.
@@Mahtijanis Damn, that thought never crossed my mind during that scene. After you mentioned it, this game is even more brilliant than i thought, supposedly.
Discussions that dive this deep into a game is exactly what the developers work so hard for, their dedication lived on through us after the credits roll. How long has it been since the gaming community could come together to discuss the events of a game on this major a scale? We need to appreciate what FF7 and the devs have reintroduced to the gaming community, uncertainty and theories. Because for once we have no real clue whats going on or coming next. Keep discussions like these coming guys, I have no doubts they're watching.
It's kinda double-edge sword on that like, when fans get too much hype up for the next game, fans gonna get too disappointed if the game is not delivered. Similar to what Star Wars fans got in the recent trilogy. it's scary in a way tho.
@@manaswin123 Definitely a fear that comes up because unlike back then, we have the internet now so we can read all these theories and have a headcanon bonanza. But I don't think that means the devs should stay inside of a box. Majority of the game they gave us was exactly what we wanted, and that's over 15 years+ of hype from us seeing how technology has advanced and how we would like to see the Remake done. They fought that battle and just won. It was one battle yeah, but if they can deliver on 15+ years of waiting hype I think they can win the war over fan theories.
@@manaswin123 the disappointment had nothing to do with expectations and more to do with Hollywood trying to be inclusive when it comes to "talent." Talent isn't inclusive, you're either the best or you're not. Picking a bunch "different" people because they're different doesn't add to the quality of a product.
I have one and our conversations are kinda hilarious. We usually just dump everything videogame and movie related at each other and not much else and with the rest of my friends we very VERY rarely talk about games but talk about and do basically everything under the sky and thats alright. I don't really need a whole community of mega nerds around me as long as I have at least someone with whom I can express my love for this medium and it's honestly so liberating.
"Aerith is super aware of what's going on" Shit, yes. There are so many situations, even subtle without words. This girl's seen something we might think we are already aware of, but maybe we aren't.
*Spoilers* Completed the game and was watching parts of Max's playthrough. When Tifa is about to tell Aerith to head to 7th Heaven (before the plate drop), Aerith cuts her off and finishes her sentence by saying that she will get Marlene. As far as I know, Aerith isn't supposed to know about who Marlene is so I think this is one point where Aerith's awareness is demonstrated.
Just walking around listening to people was one of my favourite parts of this game. Especially the Shinra employees, because they had the balls to actually show that the evil corporation you're fighting against is filled with many many good people, who truly believe in what they're doing. Seeing the middle manager guy in the beginning, despite being absolutely terrified by this huge man with a machine gun for an arm getting right up in his face and antagonising him, standing his ground and proclaiming his belief in peaceful progress, or spying on the meetings in Shinra HQ and hearing them trying to come up with ways to help the victims of the plate collapse, even right up to the top echelons of the company with the head of Urban Development, Reeve Tuesti, pleading with the President of Shinra to reconsider his plans, and later sitting at his desk with his face in his hands just absolutely gutted by his own inability to do anything to prevent these atrocities. This is something I've been missing from a lot of fiction, the nuanced protrayal of people on different sides of a conflict. It's especially evident in Star Wars, where every Imperial is portrayed as someone who walks around laughing maniacally and kicking puppies for fun. Reality is very few people think they're the bad guys, they just have different perspectives on how to do the most good, and seeing the Shinra people sincerely and honestly believe in the ability of Shinra to make life better for people makes the entire world feel so much more believable.
Reeve is honestly one of my favourite things about this Remake. Showing him trying so hard to help the people of Midgar, Cait Sith running in vain to try stop the Plate from falling. Reeve was always one of the more forgetable main characters to me in the original, but the Remake so far already made a stronger impression, I can't wait for Cait Sith to join the party.
I think it's very topical to politics as well. Well intentioned people at the middle/lower level but a lot of corruption and obfuscated deals at the top level.
this is probably the single greatest podcast, or whatever you want to call it, that I've ever seen/listened to. I've never felt so many waves of hype throughout one of these before.
Jesus man I'm watching Max's playthrough and it's blowing my mind right now how on point he is with these small details. Max talking about the different levels honestly feels like Goku ascending through each stage of super saiyan right now, my mind is ABSOLUTELY blown away!
@@joejackson7140 there isn't much to talk about, no real hints about it from the game as Max pointed out. It could very well be in Zack's "new" timeline.
If you go to story and look through your objectives complete list In chapter 12, it actually confirms that Biggs didnt die. It says he was seriously injured.
For most games this convoluted shit would annoy me but they did SUCH a good job with this remake that I’m on board for whatever comes next. This was easily my favorite spoiler mode you guys have ever done, you should have max on more!
Watching this now, i'm so glad Damiani was WRONG about the openness of FFVII: Rebirth at 47:18 lol Rebirth's world was MASSIVE, and you can actually seemlessly travel from location to location once you get the Tiny Bronco. It's amazing!
@@MrJk360 he could be better.. change the way he orchestrates his words. Re watch the scenes with cloud, it just sounds like he's seducing him. I know I'm not the only one
@@robreich6881 Well you can have a second (or even thrid) reading on the text now. Who is saying it? Sounds like an older Sephiroth. Is he manipulating me in that moment? "Those encoutered, were not forgotten - That someday, we will see them again" - Aerith? Sephiroth? Or just "all the characters, we as players loved to play"?? And of yourse, you can search for different readings in all of those sentences. I am really looking forward to playing that game, when it finally arrives on PC.
Incorporating the og ff7 into remake is amazing. You don’t realize it till the very end, and that’s after mulling it over. Max exploded my mind on this show.
I told some people at work earlier today that I was a little disappointed in FF7R, wasn't really feeling a second playthrough, etc. Randomly discovered this video tonight and now I am so hype, about to call in sick tomorrow to start hard mode
Wow, Square is lucky Max has a lot of dedicated followers without a mind of their own lmfao. This news just makes me dislike the plot even more than I already did.
@@CJTranceAddiction no joke! And obviously stoked to see where they take it now that this video filled in the massive gaps in the ending that went way over my head on first seeing it. Sorry, you didn't feel it as much
I’m amazed that max caught all of it before the ultimania released. And most of the things he talked about were right, even with the Advent Children stuff.
The comment that I keep seeing around that really resonates with me is that. People noticed the opening and ending of the original FF7 are actually different. In the OG opening Aerith’s eyes are already open, and in the ending cutscene she is opening her eyes. The remakes opening cutscene also shows Aerith opening her eyes. Like she just witnessed the events of the original game through the lifestream knowledge. The original game could have been a possible future and the remake is her trying to use her knowledge to adjust the outcome? If you notice throughout the game she makes odd comments and isn’t exactly herself. Like she’s aware and knows everything that happens. Red 13’s comment on his memory of running in the beginning of Advent Children is the “future if they fail” as if the OG & AC movie had the bad ending.... idk my mind is blown and I have faith in Square Enix! I’m sure they’ll nail it all.
You want more proof? There's a bunch of things she says and does that can be written off as character quirks, that when you play through again you'll see in a different light. The reunion flower at the start is an obvious one, but easy to write off as a nod to fans, until you realize that it's more than that, to her, it really was a reunion. At Corneo's mansion, she greets Tifa like an old friend, even though they never met. It takes her a moment to realize that and introduce herself. She already knows who Marlene is before Tifa can finish asking her to get her to safety. That's just a few, there's more than that if you pay attention, not including the obvious ones. I think it's pretty great how they managed to be so subtle about it for the most part. That's also why a lot of people think the ending is such a mess. It appeared to just come out of no-where at first glance. But if you go through again and pay attention, the clues are all there, and you can see the buildup to it clearly, you just weren't looking for it on the first go around.
@@Posichronic All of those I can get behind except "maybe" the Marlene thing, but I'd have to go and replay Chapter 11 to verify. Didn't they see some ghost scene and Tifa mentions Marlene during it at one point? Perhaps that's how Aerith knew that Marlene was the one to go look for. There's a chance that she already remembers Marlene as well, however.
Then why didn't she tell Cloud and Tifa not to stand on Corneo's trapdoor? They'd have made it to Sector 7 fast enough to potentially stop the destruction, evacuate everyone, or at least save Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie.
@@TheSlammurai how would they have made it to the sector faster if the whispers had stopped them after? Just like how Hojo was going to tell the gang about Cloud's past but got swept away. It's to keep the timeline going until they ultimately chased after Sephiroth who was trying to alter it. Sounds like you haven't even listened to the video and took in what Max is speculating, which actually makes sense.
rewatching some interviews with Kitase and Nomura... they know what they did. all of this is on purpose. all of the levels and layers. they were so smug in all of the interviews...
Another interesting thing is that zack reacts to the explosion when you defeat the big whisper, like it physically knocks him over and he reacts to it. even if he never reacted to the whisper dome in the first place
And also she says something similar to "I'm lost in a maze" as in she knows what's coming, but cannot explain it to the group because that would change the story/predetermined path.
@@VvVici yes bc she's not supposed to know whats going to happen *plot ghosts* but as aerith said, their voices cannot reach sephy hence why he's not affected by them
It was giving me like, scary movie reaction, every other sentence. Chills, involuntary tears racing down my face Get Out style, ... I only get this way when I'm overwhelmed with fear, but for some reason my mind was being blown so bad over and over again, the same reaction was triggered. It took me FOREVER to get through this whole video, for this reason.
donald curry it’s obviously “continuation” (I picked closest word) of the original though. It’s basically was said in the ending by Aerith. And without original, this remake feels lacking. Again - They bring out stuff that would happen (from the original), and pre-final fight - you’re fighting for that not happening exactly as it will happen in the original, it was said clearly. Not saying if this good or bad, just saying. Maybe not a sequel, but “what if..” spin-off. Whatever, we don’t need to label everything. That’s the plan - game for old fans, and newbs. P.s. if you were talking about Future Sephiroth stuff - totally speculative, I agree.
@@TheSlammurai Exactly. And that's what makes Sephiroth an even more creepy, unknown and sinister villain here. His interference with the story and assumed knowledge of the timeline, messing with the player, just adds so much more depth to him. It amplifies the sci-fi horror aspect of FF7 regarding Sephiroth and Jenova.
Just wanna say, I never played the OG until after I beat Remake, and I was on Level 3 on my first playthrough. Caught Aerith's demeanor to Cloud. Caught how she greeted Tifa like they were old friends when they met for the first time. And how Aerith knew Tifa was gonna ask her to save Marlene before Tifa even finished her sentence.
56:45 What Max says is even more true in Japanese where Sephiroth changes his usual formal condescending pronoun of "Watashi" to his Soldier Days and More Personal Pronoun of "Ore"
That's also why I think there's a good chance it could be the case that that scene hints at the possibility that there's an instance of Sephi that wants to reclaim his humanity in opposition to the Sephi that's merged with the Lifestream that's trying to maintain his godhood. It's also possible that Sephi is just the facade, and Jenova is the true consciousness that makes the villain Sephi what he/it is, the actual manipulator in the equation, simply adopting his form as the representative of the next evolution of the alien eldritch abomination entity it/she is. ...Kinda like the whole Lavos parasitically incorporating the DNA and knowledge of each planet it devours to evolve its form detail that gets dropped in Chrono Trigger/Cross, since they're basically both the same concept/type of creature. (It was always a question since the original game on who's controlling who between Sephiroth and Jenova, and that may be more explicitly played with this time around.)
@@Shalakor The creators have all always maintained that Sephiroth is the one in control, not Jenova. People need to stop trying to make Sephiroth not a villain. He is pure, grade-A villain.
That's not saying much. Every character who talked made me cringe... hard.. Riku literally felt like a robot up to the moment when he blocks the heartless for Sora.
Yeah... Whoever was in charge of dialogue in that series (Nomura?) didn't do a very good job. Then again, you can argue that KH is essentially a Disney game so that may have been by design.
I love KH for the gameplay, it's one of my fav combat systems ever. That being said the characters are nothing more than plot devices? The fact that Roxas and Ventus give a little gasp when seeing each other in 3 was proof that there's nothing of a personality in either of them.
From all the discussions I heard this is really the best and one actually I can finish. I seen so many RUclipsrs that usually I like that have no clue on how to express themselves or their feelings properly. It's just a bunch of "uhm yeah its bad, it's good uhm, it's like Kingdom Hearts uhm" but they never say why they think that. It really opened my eyes on how much editing helps a person sound "smart" on this platform. Thanks for the discussion guys.
Yes, and also surface level thinkers everywhere who just can't see past what's on the surface. Like, they see the ending, and they just immediately go "omg, Zack's alive, that means Aerith isn't gonna die!" or "Anything goes now! Different towns, different backstories for the characters, no more Meteor, no more Holy," and so on. It's really embarrassing and cringe to see actually.
@@sub.sa.3058 oh I agree it's presented really awful but as someone who used to like KH I have to disagree. Even in the end characters are well characters and not super anime robots devoid of any personality
@@back2back379 I know i keep trying to tell people its just a flashback for people who are playing any FF7 for the first time but im surprised with how many FF7 players think Zack is alive in alternate timeline.
after listening to Max's wisdom, it's impossible to listen to other podcasts about ff7 remake. I want every single RUclipsr and podcaster to hear Max's wisdom before they go on for 2 hours missing the point.
raymundo God, same. I hope his ideas spread throughout FF7’s fandom more. There’s some actual critical thought and ideas going on in his brain and the couple podcasts/reviews like this I tried to listen to before just frustrate me with their “great game...but that Kingdom Heartsy ending? Crap! Nomura’d! I can’t believe they trashed my childhood game!” Ughh
@@VAB419 You expect too much from the FF/Square "fanbase" they never do any research at all and barely know anything about the series or who actually worked on it. Just look at all the people blindly hating on it or calling it KH. It just shows that they haven't played KH and either haven't played the original or payed no attention.
You gotta be careful with all those theories, though, remember the indoctrination theory from ME3? Not everything mentioned here might end up being true - i.e. in the video they're dismissing the fact that the whispers at the end of the game are future Cloud, Tifa, and Barret, cause they use different variations of weapons, and theorize that they might be Sephirot's remnants from AC, but the AC trio uses different weapons, as well (the guy in AC used one gun, but the whisper gunner has 2 guns for hands).
@@piobu5357 The indoctrination theory was an answer to a shit ending, not a speculation of "what might happen". Not really the same. There is also a lot more to the AC trio theory than just the weapons, where them being the main cast is only based on that.
@@Elidan1012 My point was that the indoctrination theory happened to work despite the creators deliberately putting any of it there, and this might be the case here, as well. People started seeing double meaning and connections where there were none. The FF7R predictions and theories are getting out of control, too, and most of them are seriously reaching, and will probably end up not being true in the end. Zack's alive and it's an alternate timeline too boot, cause the bag of chips looked different! but wait, he might still be gunned down by Shinra in a moment, and the chips thing might end up being a fluke. Jessie's gloves are there - she must be alive! but wait, someone could've just place them there, she might still be dead. Cloud's grabbing his geostgima-infected hand in a cut-scene, he's having a flashforward to events of AC! but then again it might just be an expression of pain they chose to go with in this particular scene. Aerith's getting more gloomy and preachy along the way, she must have seen their future! but then again this might not be the case at all. What's the point of all this, there's too many factors and unknowns at this point - just wait for the other games. Not to mention that this was supposed to be a remake, not a confused side dish that will not stand on its own without the knowledge of the original game, AC, OVAs, spin-off games, books, mobile games, etc. If all of the theories would end up being true, this would make the remake the most convoluted and the least self-contained game ever made. I'm personally rooting against all that crap.
@@piobu5357 I agree that the fanbase is currently spiraling out of control and people are so desperate to make sense of the whisperers that they think this is holy gospel. I thought alot of these things while I played but all in all it is only possibilities and not correct lore. Passion is great but people are spinning this into what was not presented and with the creators being whome they are get credit for being smart rather than questioned why. People need to remember that these are fan theories. We will also never know now because the creators are in the early states that they might simply adapt fan theories to make them seem smart, so in essence, fans might be writing everything and think that they are getting their mind blown. The only real thing that was new to me was the Kadaj trio. They are wrong in the attacks being that similar (after all Yazoo does not shoot lazers and Loz uses one of the guns now and then and his punches into the ground is kinda just an AOE). The red one has general sweeps and uppercuts that seems to be just general attacks from anything with a sword. That one in percticular lacks Kadajs real weapon that is a dualblade and not a stick. If the others are true to their design (Loz having an arm guantlet) then it is the most disrespectful. Then again it would be extremly on the nose. Granted I find this intriguing but then I thought a little more about it. The appearance is similar yes (and it might be a homage or even cameo), but there is no reason for that gang to manifest. They are in regards to their mother incredibly selfless. Protecting the OG timeline does make them live but in regards of "when" they come from a lot of changes in their motivation. The AC destroys what is left of Jenova and Jenova is seen being alive once more in the OG in the core (as a boss). So in essence, they would kill their mother something they would never tolerate even if it costs their lives. Now people claim that Sephirot has hijacked destiny bla bla and this is the remnants of Sephirot but the assessment clearly states that the whisperers in the battle want to protect the timeline. Plus it would not make sense for Sephirot to aid the Harbinger at all by letting even something manifest, especially if he wanted the party to kill fate for him. So neither fate nor Sephirots gains anything by the whisperers manifest as Kadajs gang. This is only one of the criticisms I would have wanted people to bring up, there are other but if there is anything at all I wish people would bring up it is: This is not the "solution" and if you need this to justify you feelings to be in sync on the high end for the logic of FF VII remake then you must reevaluate because this cannot be taken as facts. Also eveyone is given Max to much credit. Even he himself says that he gets much of it from others. also do not go looking for patterns where they do not exists. That is a mental illness in of itself.
like he said it really makes you think, did the guys at Square Enix really go far in term of hidden story you'd only know if you think way outside the box ??
@@back2back379 for sure. I only watched advent children once because it was just an okay movie. I love ff7 so advent children is a must since it was like the first time we saw updated tifa and cloud designs
my head did not explode cause i am above that level, everyone is assuming zack is alive cause the last scene but yet with all the back and forward of visions( cut scenes) who says that was not just a scene before he fights the soldiers meaning it happen just like the original that zack barely beat the big group to die to three soldier that came in after that.
I just re-watched it as well! I've been having pangs about replaying the game lately, so I need to hold out another 2 months of waiting for Intergrade and the Yuffie Intermission!!
LVL 5 Theory: At the end of this series when the multiple timelines converge into one singular timeline, that is what causes the Cloud’s identity breakdown before the events of FFVII. The timeline is fixed but since Zack becomes the Hero in the other timeline when the merge occurs it causes Cloud to have Zack’s memories tangled up with his as well as the visions of future events to come from both of them. This explains why during the remake the black feathers are so prevalent (as in Crisis Core both black and white feathers were featured heavily)
That part talking about the advent children characters actually being the whispers was INTENSE LEVEL 4. I actually was so struck and had to pause the video. If that is true, i am beyond hyped and can't believe they went that in depth.
E2Saint x Well they’re dead now and likely wouldn’t come back to confirm/deny, so it’s up to the fans to decide. I would have to see a video comparing attack animations before I believe that.
If the scripts gonna have any chance to change，it will cost a fortune as well。The past is sealed anyway，and for this time，this remake will make people hurts at another level。
Thanks to Max for completely blowing my mind and helping me understand this game. It's not just a remake, but a living part of the ongoing story. Brilliant! All my gripes I had about this game's story have been destroyed and I now have a totally new respect and understanding for the entire ff7 saga.
Can’t believe I found this discussion, what a wholesome and smart conversation! I just finished FF7 and FF7R and this is the group of guys I wanted to get excited with. Thank you, thank you for sharing this with me, I think I’m a new subscriber! :)
2:01:51 I think Cait Sith is supposed to have sentience separate from Reeve. That's the only way it makes sense, logically Reeve can't be helping the party all the time, he has to work and sleep and stuff. I think Chadley might be setting up Cait Sith to be the same, a sentient robot of some kind.
It very obviously does have its own sentience, it's not even a question, because it was really upset and emotional when it said goodbye at temple of ancients
holy crap, Max is on a whole other level compared to the other speakers. The other 4 are talking about FF7R as fans who enjoyed it, Max- "lets go into analytical detail about the Plot Ghosts..." everyone else....."Ummm, I never thought about it that way"
Seeing this almost humbled version of the character was shocking and fascinating for me. He almost seems to treat Cloud with a level of respect and I love this idea that he's more aware of events than most. This is not only a side of him we've never seen, it actually feels surprisingly fitting for the character.
@@ThiefofCrystals They are turning everything to 11 with this and it's great. But people are going "oh no it's not exactly 1:1 mah feefees lets sue Square".
@@ThiefofCrystals The funny thing is with Sephiroth pre-crazy he was a generally good guy when you go through Crisis Core with Zack. So seeing him being more humbled and respectable to Cloud makes sense as he probably mellows out after Advent Children to at first glance seem normal but still crazy.
@@ChristheDowned I can understand feeling upset given the fact that the audience was effectively deceived, but that was also more or less necessary for the sake of the twist and everything going forward. I am a little worried Square can't pull off a big brain Kojima twist like this, but so far I'm onboard. I think the reason people are so upset is because 95% of the game was an incredible, faithful recreation, and now we won't have that anymore, the line of thought is likely 'but we COULD have had an accurate Remake' and they're right, and that would have been amazing. But I also take that 95% as proof that they CAN absolutely nail this world and the characters regardless of where they take the story now. The next parts will very much determine how this is ultimately remembered. It will either go down as one of the most incredible plot twists of all time, or be one final nail in the coffin for many fans of the series who have already had to deal with a string of disappointments.
Someone please tell these guys they already lost their bet with Max. You see a scene from the OG in a picture in sector 7, in seventh heaven. OG bar is in a photo in the remake bar.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
**Max's Levels Guide**
Introduction to the levels: 26:00
Level 1: 30:33
Level 2: 32:10
Butterfly Effect: 34:25
Level 3: 52:40
Ben's last stand against Max: 54:39 - 55:45
Bridge to Level 4: 1:00:25
Mind blown: 1:06:00 - 1:10:25
Brain Expansion Begins; The Constant: 1:11:00
The Whispers' Identity: 1:12:35
False Control 1:14:10
Brain Expansion Evolution and Confidence: 1:15:00
Zack's Potential Role: 1:18:40
False Hope: 1:22:00
Level 4: 1:23:00
BIG BRAIN: 1:24:00 - 1:27:30
Potential holes in the theory, but also evidence to support it: 1:27:40
Kyle's Explanation of the Beauty of the Remake: 1:28:50 - 1:31:00
Max's Confidence in Amplification of Original Story Beats: 2:18:30 - 2:19:50
Concluding Thoughts; Entering the Lifestream: 2:29:50
I appreciate this
reminds me of attack on titan, the levels and second watch throughs
I love you
This does help
Thank you
*Max 5 minutes in* "I don't wanna talk too much, I wanna hear you guys talk."
*2 1/2 hours later* "So that's my theory, what do u guys think?"
Jacob Koszuta and we all loved every moment of it. 🤯❤️
hahaha he clearly knew the most, so i'm glad it was just him talking because this is why we all came here
I love it. It does show that he really is an FFVII fan.
I was disappointed at first because max wasn’t talking a lot... I came to specifically hear him talk.
Then he got on a roll, and I was like Jesus max, let someone else talk!
This is a man who, an hour and a half after the credits roll on his playthrough, was still going on about his interpretations of the ending to his twitch chat.
**Max saying something**
Nomura: "Write that down! Write that down!!!"
Lmao
No doubt that they're listening to all feedback for the next game.
Yeah and they listen to what Max is saying. Remember the story with his reaction video inspiring the devs
Nojima*
Funny thing is Kitase said they look forward to hearing fan theories.
Max is so obsessed that he interviewed Easy Allies on their own channel
lol. But thats a good Thing honestly.
Tbf this host is pretty lame and bad as a host, so I'm not surprised.
Max is so obssesed with final fantasy 7 he entered the Lifestream himself.
Very underrated comment right here lol!!
lmfao
Honestly, I'm with him. I've been trying to dissect every little bit of this game and watching all his streams.
@@BingBangPoe This vid blew my fucking mind wide open. I'm on level 4 with him now. I HAVE to replay this game over again to get everything.
Max has reached the promise land
This is the greatest Spoiler Mode EVER.
@Onion Dark Knight He is the sex guy afterall
Level 1: Spoiler
Level 2: Spoilera
Level 3: Spoileraga
Level 4: Holy ****
Level 4: Holy Spoileraza, Batman!
I believe that, technically, Level 4 would be Spoileraja, but I like yours better.
Level 1: Mega Spoiler
Level 2: Giga Spoiler
Level 3: Tera Spoiler
Level 4: Exa Spoiler
Level 5: Peta Spoiler
@@thetimekeeper955 Thanks, I forgot that level 4 had a specific name.
LOLLL
I love how everyone in Easy Allies crew was thinking this is gonna be another regular Spoiler Mode episode and Max came in and basically said “Hold my Cosmo Canyon”
The deep dive with Max. Is on another level. The most fascinating thing, is that he is right.
This trilogy is going to deliver so many feels, none of us are ready
Max has gone full cult leader/televangelist/pyramid scheme salesman in this one, haha
chvage and I’m all for it
He pretty much turned into Charlie from it's always sunny
IKR
He got norted
Wym?
The Ultimania guide came out in Japan on the 28th and confirms a bunch of this speculation.
It comes *just shy* of confirming that Zack's victory occurs in a new timeline, pointing out the different Stamp and stating that the two contradictory versions of Cloud can't exist in the same space and time, and asking the reader to speculate on what this could mean.
It confirms that the named Whispers' "fighting styles" are the same as Sephiroth's remnants, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, and moreover, in the Japanese version Whisper Croceo actually has a move named Velvet Nightmare, after Yazoo's guns.
It confirms that Aerith has knowledge of the future, though implies that her understanding is fragmentary -- likely because of the Whispers touch (as she mentions, every time they touch her she loses something).
It explains explicitly what the Whispers are trying to achieve in each scene they appear in, or rather, what changes they are trying to prevent.
It also explains that there are four different incarnations of Sephiroth in the game, and explains what each is when it appears. In most cases, he is either a 1.) hallucination only seen by Cloud, or 2.) a vision of the past that Cloud is remembering. In the Shinra HQ, he's 3.) the cloaked men taking on his appearance to steal Jenova's body, as in the original game, which is why they can be seen by everyone. Finally, on the highway and in the Singularity, Sephiroth is 4.) a new, mysterious incarnation of Sephiroth, who speaks to Cloud with a tone of familiarity, different from the rest.
Nice! I heard they also confirmed in an Ultimania interview that the next parts of the Remake would continue to mainly follow the story of FFVII and wouldn't go in a completely different direction as some people had feared. And I heard Nomura also said the parts would be smaller and more detailed in order to speed up development. Do you know if all that's true?
@@Xackadee Yes tho he just said he would want the next parts to be smaller so they can come out faster. They dont know how many parts there would be
@@Xackadee Yeah, Nojima basically says it's still a remake, so they need to have all the story beats players are loking forward to. Nomura was more so saying that they can either break it up into more episodes to complete and release them more quickly, or make them longer and spread out the releases more. Either way the goal seems to be to maintain this level of quality, which means they can't feasibly make the releases annual.
@@SuzakuX I'd normally be vehemently against this kind of release cycle but this is the one rule to the exception. I honestly can't even fathom having to wait another 3-5 years for the next part. I'm not entirely sure people will even remain interested for that long. I think an annual release that's maybe 15 hours long at least is acceptable.
this shit is melting my mind, and i love it
Max is so good at explaining that he just turned the most confusing shit into kindergarten math, he's honestly amazing at this.
Right! If I hadn't watched this, I wouldn't have appreciated the ending like I do now.
It explains why every reviewer with a podcast wanted him on to talk about it, the dude is in love with FF7, he thoroughly loves and appreciates everything about it, so the dude can passionately explain it so well to get you into that shit
Watching him piece things together on the VODS (couldn't watch, was behind in my game) was like watching a master at work
I feel the exact same way. I didn't know how to feel about the ending and now I absolutely love it
Well to be fair, if you pay any sort of attention to the story. which Nomura did NOT WRITE by the way. It's not all that hard to understand. Sure I have like 4 theories about sephiroth and the whispers and they're all plausible which annoys me. But for what we get we get a base understanding.
Just beat hard mode and I was fighting Sephiroth with Aerith. He killed her in that last fight and says "ahh the memories". He definitely knows everything about the original events. Zero doubts now.
Holy Sh#&*! I will need to fight him again to hear it
am I about to let Aerith die to hear this shit?
i beat ff7r when it came out, fucking loved it so much, just finished the og yesterday, fucking loved it, watched this, and now i wanna play the remake again
@@PenguinsAreColdish i beat it yesterday too homieeeeeeeee
If you jump in front of sephiroth with cloud when he is going to hit aerith she also comments on it
Entire fandom: "lets not get crazy over the ending and the future of the franchise"
Max: "HOLD MY FIGHTING STICK"
I was crazy and i might just be going insane now.
Max : "Hold my Level 4 Holy Materia, folks"
Mass Effect anyone?
Max: "i have the power of god and anime on my side!"
*right next to Max because I lost my sanity the moment I got my PS4 Pro in the mail*
(I literally bought it, just to play the Remake.)
here's the topic :
32:05 LEVEL 1 THEORY (COMMON)
32:35 LEVEL 2 THEORY (UNCOMMON)
50:40 LEVEL 3 THEORY (RARE)
52:20 LEVEL 3 THEORY MAX (RARE)
1:05:57 THEORY ABOUT JESSIE
1:06:49 MORE LEVEL 3 THEORY (RARE)
1:12:45 ABOUT 3 WHISPER BOSS
1:23:50 HUGE BRAIN THEORY LEVEL 3
1:26:33 FF7 REMAKE POSTER KEYART
1:27:03 LEVEL 4 MAX'S BIG BRAIN THEORY
2:02:20 WHO IS CHADLY
Fcking love this podcast, these theories so interesting to listen. Thanks guys
This has been easily the BEST post game discussion. The level of perspective discussed to create new forms of appreciation for the game are fantastic. Ina world that rewards haters, thank you for going against the tide and making this.
I come back to this video pretty often just to hear these 5 adults absolutely nerding out about their favorite game ever, clinging to Max's lips as if he's some sort of cult leader. I love it.
The Minn Max deep dive is great too!
Aerith: "Requesting permission to kill" - perfect example of how Aerith defied expectations. Loved that!
"Shit" -Aerith, Disney Princess 2020
"Hello. I'm some people. Nice to meet you."
Nice one, dad Aerith. Lol
Aerith: Activating instant kill mode
These only occur in the English. The French script was sooo different. Some scenes even play out different. She doesn't cuss even once either
Max is the real world's Aerith - nobody sees or understands the plot ghosts until they interact with him.
Plot twist: He is actually Sephiroth that has now transcend the game and move into the real world and is manipulating how we think so that things will play out the way he want.
I'm sure he isn't the only one out there who came up with this. I even had some idea that clearly you're working to prevent past events from occuring. I just actually didn't want to think that Sephiroth is clearly responsible for this new fate. And now, I simply cannot stop cringing.....Sephiroth has the power to travel through time now. Ohhhh boy, what a way to ruin a good thing. Only Square can pull this sort of outrageous failure off like they do.
@@CJTranceAddiction lol
@@NickSwan That was 4 weeks ago when I first beat the game...I have settled down since then lol. I'm keeping an open mind.
@@CJTranceAddiction cool of you to do that dude... It will always be hard for some to adjust to change you know...glad you are somewhat coming around 👍🏿
This is just a giant Max TedTalk about FF7 and I absolutely love it
First few minutes: Damn why aren't they letting Max talk
Rest of the podcast: ULLLTTRRAAAA COMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
They tried a combo breaker but...
Max: COUNTER BREAKER!!!!
@@cklambo
Max: Ultra Combo
Ben: C-C-Combo bre-
Max: COUNTER BREAKER!!
Max: SUPREME VICTORY
Max is a charge character
This is honestly the best ff7r discussion on the internet. Everyone needs to watch this
yea they sound polite and analytical
Agreed ! My mind is blown, and I’m so excited for the future of the remake. And like they, I have more appreciation for the game now after watching this.
you should check out MinnMax for more too
MinnMax has about 15 hours of discussion that would beg to differ
The one with dropped frames is way better imo
You guys are gonna have to do a part 2 to this. I enjoyed the conversation so much so that I didn't want it to end.
CuriousCorduroy Agreed haha
Seriously though I was watching this and it felt like 10 minutes. I looked at the clock in my room and 2 and a half freaking hours went by. Just started at my phone for a few minutes dumbfounded like how lol
in our timeline, max is actually bugenhagen.
Memories
Bugen Haagen Dasz
Nanomachines son!
LMFAO YOURE NOT WRONG
Cast him as the voice!
As time passes and more things are revealed, Max’s insane ramblings only come to seem more and more accurate.
Square taking notes
It's funny how we are coming back watching this year's later lol this is my 3rd time😅
@mario_maniac9368 dude I've watched this at least 10 times. I need to change....
He had max insight for sure 👁️
Max to be credited as special thanks
My read on Aerlith's hesitation throughout the game is her struggling with the idea of accepting events as the planet describes. She spends the start of the game almost resolved that these things are going to happen and there is no point in fighting it, the plate is going to fall, she is going to get taken away and ultimately she is going to die because all of them are steps that need to be taken for Sephiroth to lose. But over the course of the game and her interactions with Cloud and Tifa, she starts putting her faith in the party over the planet, believing that they can find a better future and still beat Sephiroth. She dares to believe Cloud can save her to the point where she fights and kills destiny with you.
Knowing that Aerith knows the plate is going to fall ahead of time and she's accepting of that fact makes her dialog with Tifa hit so much harder
@@AJAlkaline she is trying to console Tifa while also knowing she has to make Tifa believe she can save everyone so she can get so close and then fail...
@Andrew Whiting support or console. She is trying to balance being a good friend with knowing what's going to happen
Best part is I bet it's all just a big tease so they can make her death even more tragic.
I think this is very important when you have this concept that the characters have a say in how this will all play out. My major problem with OG FF7 is that at the end, the Planet and Meteor go head to head and the story gets ambiguous despite having this much more relatable conflict between the party and Sephiroth. Now we have a story where not only Sephiroth but our own cast has the power to not only defy Destiny but to pave a future that can include humanity. It's why Red says that the vision of him and and his cubs running is a vision of tomorrow if they lose.
Max did an almost 10 hour lore heavy stream of the game after this. What a legend, the FFVII fan we need but not the one we deserve.
@@jdogg0130x2k he only said he doesnt like kingdom hearts nothing about kh fans.
I remember he said he was going to appear in two podcasts, do you remember the second podcast he will appear in?
@@jdogg0130x2k It's his opinion. Get over it.
@@jdogg0130x2k I recall him saying he doesn't like KH because of the robotic characters (a fair point, and I like KH mostly). Proceeded to say its fine if you like it. As for the twitch hate mob . . . Yeah well that's just online mob shit that always happens everywhere unfortunately (even EZA chat, which is largely respectful devolves into that sometimes), don't let that impact your own likes and dislikes :)
He then soloed Bahamut on hard mode. This man is a monster!
One example I think they missed about Aerith's awareness of the situation and how much information she was fed from the lifestream, is how casually she walks through the slums before the plate is about to drop. She walks as she is carrying the first kid before heading to save Marlene without urgency because at that point she already knows that she is going to save her and will get out before the plate drops.
Yes, she even said "There's still time but....". She knows it will drop and the approximate timing of it.
My mind just keeps being blown. I gotta do a second playthrough.
There was another scene where, when Cloud meets Aerith the second time, Aerith mentions that Cloud is doing Mercenary work, and Cloud asks her how she knew that, and Aerith plays it off as just a guess. Oh man!
Aerith also thought a Death Chariot trying to murder them was a friendly ghost that just wanted to play...
@@BaldorfBreakdowns You're remembering it wrong. The friendly ghost was one of the souls that the chariot had trapped. It even thanks the party after the chariot had been defeated.
It’s insane. This episode of Spoiler Mode has almost become cannon within a lot of FF Remake groups.
Having Max join this discussion was a really good call. Guy’s definitely got a ton of heart and passion for FF7. Its freakin great dood.
Agree 100% Max is a ff7 expert with a huge passion for the game his input is needed
Ronin 90 in the cloud trailer for smash bros 4 the dude was able to tell it was final fantasy 7 just from the first few beats of the song, the dude is a massive fucking fan
The original FF VII is his favorite game of all time, he absolutely loves this game
Yup no Max no Party
@@Ronin-kk4bt But even so he makes mistakes and people are too bedazzled to see thig. :S people are like blinded and following a prophet based on theories rather than fact. This discussion would have been way better if someone was actually more critical. People are gonna people I guess.
This is an absolute dream RUclips Collab, Max and the allies talking about FF7 Remake, who would have ever thought this would be a thing 10 years ago?
Long ago, we looked upon a foreboding sky. The memory of the star that threatened all, burns eternal in our hearts. In its wake, came an age of silence. Yet with each fond remembrance, we knew, those encountered, where not forgotten. That some day, we would see them again. Perhaps it was no more than wishful thinking.... But after the long calm, there are now the beginnings of a stir. The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear, but let us embrace for whatever it brings. For they are coming back, at last the promise has been made.
They nailed it. Literally predicted everything 4 years in advance. Geniuses recognising the genius of Nomura, you love to see it!
"FF7 Remake Ultimania" is released in Japan today. Max is right. They are Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz. It is not official that FF7R is going to be three parts. They've already started developing Part 2.
I havent found the part where they confirm they are the advent children, could you provide a link please :3
The fight song title even has the word "Advent" in it
Where in the Ultimania does it say that the 3 Whispers you right are the 3 Advent Children? I looked through the entire interview and couldn't find it
@@munem939 its the FF7R 752-page book/bible. but it's currently being translated since it's in japanese.
It seems that Nomura wants part 2 out ASAP. He got hyped too 🤣
This is an Easy Allies podcast guest starring Maximillian Dood, but it really just rather feels like PCP University Lecture on FF7.
This would be far better then anything BestGuy would present about the remake.
"HURRR DURR TIME TRAVEL BAD"
@@Powerman293 it's more like *past rewriting time travel bad*
TEDTALK
This spoiler mode is a dream come true
It really is dude #mindblown
Literally the 2 spoiler cast I wanted the most, I can't believe they're doing it together
Two of my favourite youtube channels come together, amazing.
Feel I am obligated to donate now lol
I’m rewatching this for (probably) the third time since it’s initial upload, and it just hit me how awesome of a teacher Max is. He asks questions for participation from his class and shit. What a legend.
Same here man! Found it looking for a stream post watched it with a friend after MTG night and now I'm here again 😂
This discussion was incredible, and made me see the game in such a new light. It also released tension, I didn't even know I was holding. Am I part of the Maximilian Dood cult now?
If you start saying Dood then yes.
You're a part of the cult. XD
I thought Cloud's personality was pretty much spot on.
Yea. Some people just expect everyone to be charismatic, instead of wondering like, ok, why is it like that when everyone else is?
Yeah, I meant for that part of the story. It stays faithful to the OG disc 1 Cloud. For those who never played the original, yes I said disc 1, at least until the end of the Midgar section
I loved Cloud and Barrett's dynamic .. I know in the original these two kinda took shots at eachother but I guess in this one with that banter and stuff .. these two had such chemistry it was so good... like it just felt so Real and genuine .. I really hope they keep it going forward
@@darkslayr1 "I was wrong aboutcha-"
I hate to say it because everyone has been giving so much praise to the VAs, but I don't think Cody Christian is a very good actor, and I think that's why some people have been getting the impression that Cloud has no personality. Too monotone and deadpan in every scene. I don't speak Japanese, but I played a bit of the game with the Jp dialogue and I found Cloud's voice actor captured the whole "guy that thinks he's really cool, but really isn't" vibe a bit better. Watch the scene where Biggs & Wedge offer to mod Cloud's sword. The tone in his voice just seems to better suit the comedy of that scene, imo.
I wish i had a group of friends to chat about ff7 like this :’( most of my friends don’t play games and if they do, they don’t play ff7 :’(
The Unknown Pirate
Find them online! 😎
I agree I wish I had friends even close to this caliber my friends suck if u even wanna call them friends.
Yeah same. I'm like max when it comes to this game but my friends just look at me like I'm nuts. Those same friends are way into sports and I dont understand why lol
Find them online join Discord or Amino even going to reddit if you want but it's much better to find few people who're more positive and open minded .. FF7 fans on reddit are more of a purist and downright rude ..
Totally feel this lol it suuucks. I've been annoying the crap out of my non-gamer friends with all my hype and they couldn't care less 😂😭
Dude, if all this theory is true, than the Cloud and everyone else got played hard by Sephiroth. Because they stopped the Whispers. Now Sephiroth is free to interfere as he sees fit. Holy shit, son.
yep. a lot people missed that point and actually think cloud is capable of beating sephiroth now
Exactly. Sephiroth manipulated the shit outta the party getting them to destroy the whispers.... Granted the party could stand to gain by not following the OG timeline as well... But its definitely Sephiroth who stands to gain the most.
can this be one of those things in which, everyone including Sephiroth think that they are changing stuff but in reality they are just stomping on each other's feet?
thats what i think
Max is absolutely spectacular in this. I listened to this on a walk and his theory "Levels" got me ridiculously pumped.
"I'll never be a memory." - Advent Children Sephiroth
"NEVER BE GAME OVER" (c) Kojimbo
This line always stood out to me. As villains go, it's the one I'll always remember.
They are going to erase sephiroth from ever existing
TheExitiabilis They may have to, the way this is going.
He's like a cockroach lol. A really hot one.
Calling it now. Cloud will save Aerith at the temple and it'll be a part of Sephiroth's plan. She can't become a part of the lifestream and stop meteor. I think she's going to realize this and we're going to lose her again in a different way. Get ready for the hurt...
So if your theory is correct we'll have the joy of saving her only for her to be ripped from us in a completely new and heartbreaking way? Well let me get my tissues ready now 😔
I don’t know if I’m for this. Lol my wife will wake in night like, “why the fuck you got tears?” Lol
@@darknesswave100 Probably, Sephiroth will try to murder her by Cloud himself, so that would much better explains the "mental breakdown" Cloud had in the OG game, also there wont be any need to place Ultima weapon attacking the village, neither Cloud and Tifa falling in the lifestream. That's what I think.
@@lordk4in As much as it would hurt.
Am I the only one that wants a Cloud vs Aerith boss battle? Where we would control Cloud being controlled by Sephiroth because of the jenova cells.
@@juliogomesdesouza9035 hmm... what if that is another important point that causes a singularity and you have to fight off Cloud with Zack. Warm happy reunion after the fight, you think you saved aerith, and then current timeline Sephiroth from the sky. Fate is satisfied so the singularity falls apart so they go back to their own timelines with the new knowledge that more than just their planet is at risk.
This was incredible, it's like Max is leveling up as the podcast goes on and as he gets deeper into the lore. Sooner or later he's going to reach limit break
Right after Chadley's secret gets revealed, he leaves the party with one final line:
"It's wonderful not knowing what to expect."
This is essentially what I feel after finishing and subsequently replaying the remake, there's just a constant tease from the devs from absolutely everything!
Hold on, Chadley's secret? What are you referring to exactly? I've finished all his side quests so I'm genuinely curious if I missed something.
@@StormSnakeMG you have to complete all the VR simulator battles in Hojo's lab.
Also, very early in the game Biggs offers to modify Cloud’s sword, to which he at first declines. Biggs responds: “You some kind of purist? I know I’d never pass up a chance to improve my gear.”
They really are using every opportunity to tell us the players that they aren’t going for a copy of the original. Everything from discreet hints to blatantly telling us in the end.
@@Mahtijanis Damn, that thought never crossed my mind during that scene. After you mentioned it, this game is even more brilliant than i thought, supposedly.
Discussions that dive this deep into a game is exactly what the developers work so hard for, their dedication lived on through us after the credits roll. How long has it been since the gaming community could come together to discuss the events of a game on this major a scale? We need to appreciate what FF7 and the devs have reintroduced to the gaming community, uncertainty and theories. Because for once we have no real clue whats going on or coming next. Keep discussions like these coming guys, I have no doubts they're watching.
It's kinda double-edge sword on that like, when fans get too much hype up for the next game, fans gonna get too disappointed if the game is not delivered. Similar to what Star Wars fans got in the recent trilogy. it's scary in a way tho.
@@manaswin123 Definitely a fear that comes up because unlike back then, we have the internet now so we can read all these theories and have a headcanon bonanza. But I don't think that means the devs should stay inside of a box. Majority of the game they gave us was exactly what we wanted, and that's over 15 years+ of hype from us seeing how technology has advanced and how we would like to see the Remake done. They fought that battle and just won. It was one battle yeah, but if they can deliver on 15+ years of waiting hype I think they can win the war over fan theories.
AoiiNu 1
@@manaswin123 the disappointment had nothing to do with expectations and more to do with Hollywood trying to be inclusive when it comes to "talent."
Talent isn't inclusive, you're either the best or you're not. Picking a bunch "different" people because they're different doesn't add to the quality of a product.
@@MrAkitso I knew there was going to be at least one person that replied with a niche ass series nobody knows about.
My theory for alternate Gaia: Jessie’s mom is sick instead of her dad, her dad doesn’t know how to make pizza, therefore Wedge is skinnier
Thats only if wedge survived the assumed fall off Shinra building
And Zack would be the one helping with the bombing instead of Cloud
what if in that reality it was Wedge that pushed Biggs off of the pillar
Even the lifestream cant stop Wedge from being fat
His name is WEDGE, ffs
LMFAO
I wish i knew people to be able to talk about games at this level.
Same
me too
Same
Same
I have one and our conversations are kinda hilarious. We usually just dump everything videogame and movie related at each other and not much else and with the rest of my friends we very VERY rarely talk about games but talk about and do basically everything under the sky and thats alright. I don't really need a whole community of mega nerds around me as long as I have at least someone with whom I can express my love for this medium and it's honestly so liberating.
"Aerith is super aware of what's going on"
Shit, yes. There are so many situations, even subtle without words. This girl's seen something we might think we are already aware of, but maybe we aren't.
Chapter 14, Aerith secret scene. Watch it on RUclips and be enlightened.
@@roastpork5437 "Subtle"
Rattus Norvegicus there is subtly tho? Not the whole game, but playing it again I picked up on a lot more than I did my first playthrough
*Spoilers*
Completed the game and was watching parts of Max's playthrough. When Tifa is about to tell Aerith to head to 7th Heaven (before the plate drop), Aerith cuts her off and finishes her sentence by saying that she will get Marlene. As far as I know, Aerith isn't supposed to know about who Marlene is so I think this is one point where Aerith's awareness is demonstrated.
@@zaphyy there was a scene in the ghost train part where Tifa called out to Marlene so thats where Aerith knows about Marlene
Just walking around listening to people was one of my favourite parts of this game. Especially the Shinra employees, because they had the balls to actually show that the evil corporation you're fighting against is filled with many many good people, who truly believe in what they're doing. Seeing the middle manager guy in the beginning, despite being absolutely terrified by this huge man with a machine gun for an arm getting right up in his face and antagonising him, standing his ground and proclaiming his belief in peaceful progress, or spying on the meetings in Shinra HQ and hearing them trying to come up with ways to help the victims of the plate collapse, even right up to the top echelons of the company with the head of Urban Development, Reeve Tuesti, pleading with the President of Shinra to reconsider his plans, and later sitting at his desk with his face in his hands just absolutely gutted by his own inability to do anything to prevent these atrocities.
This is something I've been missing from a lot of fiction, the nuanced protrayal of people on different sides of a conflict. It's especially evident in Star Wars, where every Imperial is portrayed as someone who walks around laughing maniacally and kicking puppies for fun. Reality is very few people think they're the bad guys, they just have different perspectives on how to do the most good, and seeing the Shinra people sincerely and honestly believe in the ability of Shinra to make life better for people makes the entire world feel so much more believable.
Reeve is honestly one of my favourite things about this Remake. Showing him trying so hard to help the people of Midgar, Cait Sith running in vain to try stop the Plate from falling. Reeve was always one of the more forgetable main characters to me in the original, but the Remake so far already made a stronger impression, I can't wait for Cait Sith to join the party.
I think it's very topical to politics as well. Well intentioned people at the middle/lower level but a lot of corruption and obfuscated deals at the top level.
Read Attack On Titan, youll love it
THIS TAKES THE WORD "REUNION" TO WHOLE NEW LEVELS OF UNDERSTANDING
Time to revisit this masterful video after the Rebirth announcement
Level 4
Sephiroth: I will never be a memory
Aireth: I must always be a memory
Cloud: I am going to remember
lol
Zach to Cloud: .............
Zack: "am I a fucking joke to you?"
Kyle: I've settled all of my bets
Max: Hold my materia
Hahahaha you nailed it.
Haters:
"I hate Cloud's personality in the ramake make him worry and excited, we want him to be very cold guy"
Squall:
Whenever I hear those people, all I'm hearing is "I want Cloud to still be a flat, boring character!"
Jeez they want the edgy Cloud who needs personal advice from Marlene over the goofy dorky Cloud that makes a real party leader.
I found this surprising because Cloud felt more cold to me in this game than in the original
Deddrz ikr. They literally don’t want a character to have character.
I dont know why theyd say that; I think all the characters in the remake were portrayed very closely to how they seemed to me back in the original.
this is probably the single greatest podcast, or whatever you want to call it, that I've ever seen/listened to. I've never felt so many waves of hype throughout one of these before.
How great is it though that we're even having these kind of conversations about these characters in this world right now?
It sounds more like we're talking about connections to Advent children and Back to the Future
You're one of those kinds of people that just enjoys being contrarian aren't you. "Ackshually..."
@@philiom7724 hmm... thats not really fair. they're just saying it how they see it. they did use AC footage in the remake after all ;)
Jesus man I'm watching Max's playthrough and it's blowing my mind right now how on point he is with these small details. Max talking about the different levels honestly feels like Goku ascending through each stage of super saiyan right now, my mind is ABSOLUTELY blown away!
What i wanna talk about is.....why is biggs alive? Amd why is jessies gloves on his night stamd at the end of the game
@@joejackson7140 there isn't much to talk about, no real hints about it from the game as Max pointed out. It could very well be in Zack's "new" timeline.
@@joejackson7140 Probably because she died and Biggs kept her gloves as a keepsake.
If you go to story and look through your objectives complete list In chapter 12, it actually confirms that Biggs didnt die. It says he was seriously injured.
For most games this convoluted shit would annoy me but they did SUCH a good job with this remake that I’m on board for whatever comes next.
This was easily my favorite spoiler mode you guys have ever done, you should have max on more!
Watching this now, i'm so glad Damiani was WRONG about the openness of FFVII: Rebirth at 47:18 lol
Rebirth's world was MASSIVE, and you can actually seemlessly travel from location to location once you get the Tiny Bronco. It's amazing!
They better keep the English voice cast because it is PERFECT
Everyone's except Sephiroths. His VA sounds gay, no offense to gay people.
@@damienkun8786 Really? I actually loved his voice in this game
@@MrJk360 he could be better.. change the way he orchestrates his words. Re watch the scenes with cloud, it just sounds like he's seducing him. I know I'm not the only one
@@damienkun8786 I thought that's how Sephiroth is supposed to sound like? He sounds exactly like in Advent Children and Crisis Core.
@@Miha-ii3dy go watch the scenes with him n cloud in AC. Way different.
This level 4 shit just destroyed my mind... The 2015 trailer is now a different trailer
Why?
@@robreich6881 Well you can have a second (or even thrid) reading on the text now.
Who is saying it? Sounds like an older Sephiroth. Is he manipulating me in that moment?
"Those encoutered, were not forgotten - That someday, we will see them again" - Aerith? Sephiroth? Or just "all the characters, we as players loved to play"??
And of yourse, you can search for different readings in all of those sentences.
I am really looking forward to playing that game, when it finally arrives on PC.
@@christophpoll784 Hmmmm, I guess. Hopefully get a resolution before 2030
Incorporating the og ff7 into remake is amazing. You don’t realize it till the very end, and that’s after mulling it over. Max exploded my mind on this show.
To add to this the 2015 trailer shows Wutai soldiers infiltrating Midgar.
I wasn't going to watch this video. I clicked on a whim, and I gotta say, Max's theories made this game so much better. Holy shit
why were you avoiding it? or temporarily?
I told some people at work earlier today that I was a little disappointed in FF7R, wasn't really feeling a second playthrough, etc. Randomly discovered this video tonight and now I am so hype, about to call in sick tomorrow to start hard mode
Wow, Square is lucky Max has a lot of dedicated followers without a mind of their own lmfao. This news just makes me dislike the plot even more than I already did.
@@zaknafindel Wait, you gotta be joking lol.....you gotta be.
@@CJTranceAddiction no joke! And obviously stoked to see where they take it now that this video filled in the massive gaps in the ending that went way over my head on first seeing it. Sorry, you didn't feel it as much
the big brain move obviously is to have the entire original ff7 as a playable minigame in the golden saucer
Lmao hell yes. I mean what... You'd only need like 1 gigabyte?
Nah not gold saucer, bugenhagen will show us what’s really going on in the planet and then we’ll find his arcade machine and realize how he knew
Imagine halfway through the playthrough max just spends the next 20 episodes beating sephiroth in the original FF7 inside ff7 rebirth.
Dude....
Max still has his Hype-materia equipped...now it's maxed out too ! Shine on
Hahaha his hype has not run out
I’m amazed that max caught all of it before the ultimania released.
And most of the things he talked about were right, even with the Advent Children stuff.
Wait the ultimania confirmed what he said?
I mean Max loves FF7, so anything the developers says in media about FF7 he takes it as an absolute.
@@mrdude88 ???
@@music79075 yes, almost all of it
@@mrdude88 you read that wrong, max figured those things out before ff7 devs confirmed things
THIS WAS INCREDIBLE. So glad you guys had Max on to talk because his stream where he finished the game was already nuts.
I wanna burn this analysis into a dvd and include it in my Deluxe Edition for a complete package
Don Dimanlig duuuuuuuuuuuuuuudeeeeee hahaha YESSSS
Essentially this is The Document disc of FFVII Remake
The comment that I keep seeing around that really resonates with me is that. People noticed the opening and ending of the original FF7 are actually different. In the OG opening Aerith’s eyes are already open, and in the ending cutscene she is opening her eyes. The remakes opening cutscene also shows Aerith opening her eyes. Like she just witnessed the events of the original game through the lifestream knowledge. The original game could have been a possible future and the remake is her trying to use her knowledge to adjust the outcome? If you notice throughout the game she makes odd comments and isn’t exactly herself. Like she’s aware and knows everything that happens. Red 13’s comment on his memory of running in the beginning of Advent Children is the “future if they fail” as if the OG & AC movie had the bad ending.... idk my mind is blown and I have faith in Square Enix! I’m sure they’ll nail it all.
You want more proof? There's a bunch of things she says and does that can be written off as character quirks, that when you play through again you'll see in a different light.
The reunion flower at the start is an obvious one, but easy to write off as a nod to fans, until you realize that it's more than that, to her, it really was a reunion.
At Corneo's mansion, she greets Tifa like an old friend, even though they never met. It takes her a moment to realize that and introduce herself.
She already knows who Marlene is before Tifa can finish asking her to get her to safety.
That's just a few, there's more than that if you pay attention, not including the obvious ones.
I think it's pretty great how they managed to be so subtle about it for the most part.
That's also why a lot of people think the ending is such a mess. It appeared to just come out of no-where at first glance. But if you go through again and pay attention, the clues are all there, and you can see the buildup to it clearly, you just weren't looking for it on the first go around.
@@Posichronic All of those I can get behind except "maybe" the Marlene thing, but I'd have to go and replay Chapter 11 to verify. Didn't they see some ghost scene and Tifa mentions Marlene during it at one point? Perhaps that's how Aerith knew that Marlene was the one to go look for.
There's a chance that she already remembers Marlene as well, however.
Then why didn't she tell Cloud and Tifa not to stand on Corneo's trapdoor? They'd have made it to Sector 7 fast enough to potentially stop the destruction, evacuate everyone, or at least save Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie.
@@TheSlammurai I think the whispers would stop them though
@@TheSlammurai how would they have made it to the sector faster if the whispers had stopped them after? Just like how Hojo was going to tell the gang about Cloud's past but got swept away.
It's to keep the timeline going until they ultimately chased after Sephiroth who was trying to alter it.
Sounds like you haven't even listened to the video and took in what Max is speculating, which actually makes sense.
When boys are talking about their toys, two and a half hour feels like ten minutes. Great analysis guys.
Right? I think I needed another hour.
Right??? I was so into it and it just flew by hahaha
rewatching some interviews with Kitase and Nomura... they know what they did. all of this is on purpose. all of the levels and layers. they were so smug in all of the interviews...
Frank S which interviews are you referring to? I’m interested to go back and see too.
Milkyway2099 kingdom hearts help them actually telling a story
We've been played all along...
Another interesting thing is that zack reacts to the explosion when you defeat the big whisper, like it physically knocks him over and he reacts to it. even if he never reacted to the whisper dome in the first place
"every time they touch me i lose a piece of myself" - THEY"RE TRYING TO MAKE HER FORGET WHAT SHE KNOWS!
Damn that might be it
And also she says something similar to "I'm lost in a maze" as in she knows what's coming, but cannot explain it to the group because that would change the story/predetermined path.
What the fuck how did no one else catch that
@@VvVici yes bc she's not supposed to know whats going to happen *plot ghosts* but as aerith said, their voices cannot reach sephy hence why he's not affected by them
Close....but I think it's more that the more the timeline changes, the less she can be sure about in the future
Bruh, this is giving me goosebumps every five seconds. This must be what it is like to play 5D chess.
It was giving me like, scary movie reaction, every other sentence. Chills, involuntary tears racing down my face Get Out style, ... I only get this way when I'm overwhelmed with fear, but for some reason my mind was being blown so bad over and over again, the same reaction was triggered. It took me FOREVER to get through this whole video, for this reason.
Wait so you’re telling me that FFVII:R was *actually a sequel*
This is 5th Level
The last thing he says about it being a remake because Sephiroth is remaking the timeline floored me.
unproven and not even close
@@donaldcurry1020 Yeah I don't get why so many people keep saying it's a sequel
donald curry it’s obviously “continuation” (I picked closest word) of the original though. It’s basically was said in the ending by Aerith. And without original, this remake feels lacking.
Again - They bring out stuff that would happen (from the original), and pre-final fight - you’re fighting for that not happening exactly as it will happen in the original, it was said clearly.
Not saying if this good or bad, just saying.
Maybe not a sequel, but “what if..” spin-off.
Whatever, we don’t need to label everything. That’s the plan - game for old fans, and newbs.
P.s. if you were talking about Future Sephiroth stuff - totally speculative, I agree.
@@TheSlammurai Exactly. And that's what makes Sephiroth an even more creepy, unknown and sinister villain here. His interference with the story and assumed knowledge of the timeline, messing with the player, just adds so much more depth to him. It amplifies the sci-fi horror aspect of FF7 regarding Sephiroth and Jenova.
Just wanna say, I never played the OG until after I beat Remake, and I was on Level 3 on my first playthrough. Caught Aerith's demeanor to Cloud. Caught how she greeted Tifa like they were old friends when they met for the first time. And how Aerith knew Tifa was gonna ask her to save Marlene before Tifa even finished her sentence.
56:45 What Max says is even more true in Japanese where Sephiroth changes his usual formal condescending pronoun of "Watashi" to his Soldier Days and More Personal Pronoun of "Ore"
Wow I did not know that, that's an easily missable detail for commoners like myself. Incredible direction by the developers!!!!!!
Max-imum brain right there.
That's also why I think there's a good chance it could be the case that that scene hints at the possibility that there's an instance of Sephi that wants to reclaim his humanity in opposition to the Sephi that's merged with the Lifestream that's trying to maintain his godhood. It's also possible that Sephi is just the facade, and Jenova is the true consciousness that makes the villain Sephi what he/it is, the actual manipulator in the equation, simply adopting his form as the representative of the next evolution of the alien eldritch abomination entity it/she is. ...Kinda like the whole Lavos parasitically incorporating the DNA and knowledge of each planet it devours to evolve its form detail that gets dropped in Chrono Trigger/Cross, since they're basically both the same concept/type of creature. (It was always a question since the original game on who's controlling who between Sephiroth and Jenova, and that may be more explicitly played with this time around.)
@@Shalakor The creators have all always maintained that Sephiroth is the one in control, not Jenova. People need to stop trying to make Sephiroth not a villain. He is pure, grade-A villain.
@@Shalakor sephiroth is in control.
11:44 "Like I love Kingdom Hearts, but man those characters are like totally unreal goofy robots"
Goofy: *sad hyuck noises*
The best characters in the series are Aqua, Ansem the Wise, and Riku. Sora has great moments. Everyone else is just kinda meh
That's not saying much. Every character who talked made me cringe... hard.. Riku literally felt like a robot up to the moment when he blocks the heartless for Sora.
Yeah... Whoever was in charge of dialogue in that series (Nomura?) didn't do a very good job. Then again, you can argue that KH is essentially a Disney game so that may have been by design.
I love KH for the gameplay, it's one of my fav combat systems ever.
That being said the characters are nothing more than plot devices? The fact that Roxas and Ventus give a little gasp when seeing each other in 3 was proof that there's nothing of a personality in either of them.
John Edwards in other games it wasn’t to bad, BUT 3.... omg it was so bad.
From all the discussions I heard this is really the best and one actually I can finish. I seen so many RUclipsrs that usually I like that have no clue on how to express themselves or their feelings properly. It's just a bunch of "uhm yeah its bad, it's good uhm, it's like Kingdom Hearts uhm" but they never say why they think that. It really opened my eyes on how much editing helps a person sound "smart" on this platform. Thanks for the discussion guys.
Yes, and also surface level thinkers everywhere who just can't see past what's on the surface. Like, they see the ending, and they just immediately go "omg, Zack's alive, that means Aerith isn't gonna die!" or "Anything goes now! Different towns, different backstories for the characters, no more Meteor, no more Holy," and so on. It's really embarrassing and cringe to see actually.
@@back2back379 It's nothing new that a lot of people aren't very... bright (or just simplistic I suppose)
@@sub.sa.3058 oh I agree it's presented really awful but as someone who used to like KH I have to disagree. Even in the end characters are well characters and not super anime robots devoid of any personality
@@back2back379 I know i keep trying to tell people its just a flashback for people who are playing any FF7 for the first time but im surprised with how many FF7 players think Zack is alive in alternate timeline.
I can think of two RUclipsrs in particular who have done nothing but bitch and stir up crap against the game
Kyle's silent expressions and reactions through this are wonderful. Especially in tangent with Max's knowledge and enthusiasm.
after listening to Max's wisdom, it's impossible to listen to other podcasts about ff7 remake. I want every single RUclipsr and podcaster to hear Max's wisdom before they go on for 2 hours missing the point.
raymundo God, same. I hope his ideas spread throughout FF7’s fandom more. There’s some actual critical thought and ideas going on in his brain and the couple podcasts/reviews like this I tried to listen to before just frustrate me with their “great game...but that Kingdom Heartsy ending? Crap! Nomura’d! I can’t believe they trashed my childhood game!” Ughh
It's not really wisdom for the most part it's just knowledge. However his way of approaching the subject could be considered wisdom.
Sadly not everyone reached lv4 lol.
@@VAB419 You expect too much from the FF/Square "fanbase" they never do any research at all and barely know anything about the series or who actually worked on it.
Just look at all the people blindly hating on it or calling it KH. It just shows that they haven't played KH and either haven't played the original or payed no attention.
At the same time, if you made me sit through Advent Children again just to understand this video I would not be very willing.
Max's theories are legitimately melting my brain with the possibilities. God bless him.
You gotta be careful with all those theories, though, remember the indoctrination theory from ME3?
Not everything mentioned here might end up being true - i.e. in the video they're dismissing the fact that the whispers at the end of the game are future Cloud, Tifa, and Barret, cause they use different variations of weapons, and theorize that they might be Sephirot's remnants from AC, but the AC trio uses different weapons, as well (the guy in AC used one gun, but the whisper gunner has 2 guns for hands).
@@piobu5357 The indoctrination theory was an answer to a shit ending, not a speculation of "what might happen". Not really the same. There is also a lot more to the AC trio theory than just the weapons, where them being the main cast is only based on that.
@@Elidan1012 My point was that the indoctrination theory happened to work despite the creators deliberately putting any of it there, and this might be the case here, as well. People started seeing double meaning and connections where there were none.
The FF7R predictions and theories are getting out of control, too, and most of them are seriously reaching, and will probably end up not being true in the end. Zack's alive and it's an alternate timeline too boot, cause the bag of chips looked different! but wait, he might still be gunned down by Shinra in a moment, and the chips thing might end up being a fluke. Jessie's gloves are there - she must be alive! but wait, someone could've just place them there, she might still be dead. Cloud's grabbing his geostgima-infected hand in a cut-scene, he's having a flashforward to events of AC! but then again it might just be an expression of pain they chose to go with in this particular scene. Aerith's getting more gloomy and preachy along the way, she must have seen their future! but then again this might not be the case at all.
What's the point of all this, there's too many factors and unknowns at this point - just wait for the other games.
Not to mention that this was supposed to be a remake, not a confused side dish that will not stand on its own without the knowledge of the original game, AC, OVAs, spin-off games, books, mobile games, etc. If all of the theories would end up being true, this would make the remake the most convoluted and the least self-contained game ever made. I'm personally rooting against all that crap.
@@piobu5357 I agree that the fanbase is currently spiraling out of control and people are so desperate to make sense of the whisperers that they think this is holy gospel. I thought alot of these things while I played but all in all it is only possibilities and not correct lore. Passion is great but people are spinning this into what was not presented and with the creators being whome they are get credit for being smart rather than questioned why. People need to remember that these are fan theories. We will also never know now because the creators are in the early states that they might simply adapt fan theories to make them seem smart, so in essence, fans might be writing everything and think that they are getting their mind blown.
The only real thing that was new to me was the Kadaj trio. They are wrong in the attacks being that similar (after all Yazoo does not shoot lazers and Loz uses one of the guns now and then and his punches into the ground is kinda just an AOE). The red one has general sweeps and uppercuts that seems to be just general attacks from anything with a sword. That one in percticular lacks Kadajs real weapon that is a dualblade and not a stick. If the others are true to their design (Loz having an arm guantlet) then it is the most disrespectful. Then again it would be extremly on the nose. Granted I find this intriguing but then I thought a little more about it. The appearance is similar yes (and it might be a homage or even cameo), but there is no reason for that gang to manifest. They are in regards to their mother incredibly selfless. Protecting the OG timeline does make them live but in regards of "when" they come from a lot of changes in their motivation. The AC destroys what is left of Jenova and Jenova is seen being alive once more in the OG in the core (as a boss). So in essence, they would kill their mother something they would never tolerate even if it costs their lives.
Now people claim that Sephirot has hijacked destiny bla bla and this is the remnants of Sephirot but the assessment clearly states that the whisperers in the battle want to protect the timeline. Plus it would not make sense for Sephirot to aid the Harbinger at all by letting even something manifest, especially if he wanted the party to kill fate for him. So neither fate nor Sephirots gains anything by the whisperers manifest as Kadajs gang.
This is only one of the criticisms I would have wanted people to bring up, there are other but if there is anything at all I wish people would bring up it is: This is not the "solution" and if you need this to justify you feelings to be in sync on the high end for the logic of FF VII remake then you must reevaluate because this cannot be taken as facts.
Also eveyone is given Max to much credit. Even he himself says that he gets much of it from others. also do not go looking for patterns where they do not exists. That is a mental illness in of itself.
@It's Alright I listened to the podcast, I know that. He's still the one presenting them.
My brain has EXPLODED listening to Max's levels
I know right?! Cleaning up all this gray matter is going to take days...
like he said it really makes you think, did the guys at Square Enix really go far in term of hidden story you'd only know if you think way outside the box ??
@@YuzukiEba I'm not sure it's really outside the box, it's just the box has to be bigger than usual lol.
@@back2back379 for sure. I only watched advent children once because it was just an okay movie. I love ff7 so advent children is a must since it was like the first time we saw updated tifa and cloud designs
my head did not explode cause i am above that level, everyone is assuming zack is alive cause the last scene but yet with all the back and forward of visions( cut scenes) who says that was not just a scene before he fights the soldiers meaning it happen just like the original that zack barely beat the big group to die to three soldier that came in after that.
One year later, I still comeback to this podcast.
I just re-watched it as well! I've been having pangs about replaying the game lately, so I need to hold out another 2 months of waiting for Intergrade and the Yuffie Intermission!!
Same! Hands down the greatest post-game discussion I’ve EVER heard! My hype for part 2 quintupled after listening to this!
same same😄
LVL 5 Theory: At the end of this series when the multiple timelines converge into one singular timeline, that is what causes the Cloud’s identity breakdown before the events of FFVII. The timeline is fixed but since Zack becomes the Hero in the other timeline when the merge occurs it causes Cloud to have Zack’s memories tangled up with his as well as the visions of future events to come from both of them. This explains why during the remake the black feathers are so prevalent (as in Crisis Core both black and white feathers were featured heavily)
That part talking about the advent children characters actually being the whispers was INTENSE LEVEL 4. I actually was so struck and had to pause the video. If that is true, i am beyond hyped and can't believe they went that in depth.
E2Saint x
Well they’re dead now and likely wouldn’t come back to confirm/deny, so it’s up to the fans to decide. I would have to see a video comparing attack animations before I believe that.
Even the music track that plays is subtitled as 'Advent'.
The track played is called [it's subtitle] Advent. It's them.
Where is it in the video please? :(
If the scripts gonna have any chance to change，it will cost a fortune as well。The past is sealed anyway，and for this time，this remake will make people hurts at another level。
Thanks to Max for completely blowing my mind and helping me understand this game. It's not just a remake, but a living part of the ongoing story. Brilliant! All my gripes I had about this game's story have been destroyed and I now have a totally new respect and understanding for the entire ff7 saga.
Can’t believe I found this discussion, what a wholesome and smart conversation! I just finished FF7 and FF7R and this is the group of guys I wanted to get excited with. Thank you, thank you for sharing this with me, I think I’m a new subscriber! :)
2:01:51 I think Cait Sith is supposed to have sentience separate from Reeve. That's the only way it makes sense, logically Reeve can't be helping the party all the time, he has to work and sleep and stuff. I think Chadley might be setting up Cait Sith to be the same, a sentient robot of some kind.
yup he’s Reeve’s toy making hobby given sentience cause magic.
It very obviously does have its own sentience, it's not even a question, because it was really upset and emotional when it said goodbye at temple of ancients
God, I feel like I was in school taking the best class ever
A ff7 class lol
"First Class Soldier" Class.
This podcast should have come with the Deluxe and First Class Editions
you still take class in kindergarten?
Im out here taking LORE NOTES
This is one of the greatest videos I've ever watched.
holy crap, Max is on a whole other level compared to the other speakers. The other 4 are talking about FF7R as fans who enjoyed it, Max- "lets go into analytical detail about the Plot Ghosts..." everyone else....."Ummm, I never thought about it that way"
He got his ideas from his "chat" he didn't figure it all out by himself. Though, he is talking as if he did which is annoying
@@damienkun8786 he figured stuff out himself as well, it's not the chat, he together with the chat figured stuff out.,
Sephiroth was revisiting Final Fantasy 7 just like us.
Seeing this almost humbled version of the character was shocking and fascinating for me. He almost seems to treat Cloud with a level of respect and I love this idea that he's more aware of events than most. This is not only a side of him we've never seen, it actually feels surprisingly fitting for the character.
@@ThiefofCrystals They are turning everything to 11 with this and it's great. But people are going "oh no it's not exactly 1:1 mah feefees lets sue Square".
@@ThiefofCrystals The funny thing is with Sephiroth pre-crazy he was a generally good guy when you go through Crisis Core with Zack. So seeing him being more humbled and respectable to Cloud makes sense as he probably mellows out after Advent Children to at first glance seem normal but still crazy.
@@ChristheDowned I can understand feeling upset given the fact that the audience was effectively deceived, but that was also more or less necessary for the sake of the twist and everything going forward. I am a little worried Square can't pull off a big brain Kojima twist like this, but so far I'm onboard.
I think the reason people are so upset is because 95% of the game was an incredible, faithful recreation, and now we won't have that anymore, the line of thought is likely 'but we COULD have had an accurate Remake' and they're right, and that would have been amazing. But I also take that 95% as proof that they CAN absolutely nail this world and the characters regardless of where they take the story now.
The next parts will very much determine how this is ultimately remembered. It will either go down as one of the most incredible plot twists of all time, or be one final nail in the coffin for many fans of the series who have already had to deal with a string of disappointments.
Oh my god, we're all Sephiroth and Aerith now. The biggest bad versus the biggest good.
This spoiler review is sooooooooooooo GOOD.... Max really took it to another "LEVEL"...
We are living in the greatest spoiler mode timeline.
Someone please tell these guys they already lost their bet with Max. You see a scene from the OG in a picture in sector 7, in seventh heaven. OG bar is in a photo in the remake bar.
Seeing Kyle Smiling and being shock while Max's is talking is So heartwarming
Ghay boy
"Tell me what you cherish, so I can have the joy of taking it away"
"There's not a thing I don't cherish"
"Stay where you belong... In my memories."
"I Will Never be a Memory!"
@@vocalcalibration8033 so this is why sephiroth cameback in time
He came to take "everything" away from cloud.
I cherish you being alive
Max basically turned into the Alex Jones of Final Fantasy in this. Interdimensional psychic vampires!
The mako in the water is turning the freaking frogs gay!
theyre real!
@@BknMoonStudios lmao perfect
@@BknMoonStudios **frogged Cloud and Barret yaoi noices**
Uh-huh, yup, I think that settles it: I'm going to Hell.
This was the absolute best spoiler discussion I’ve ever heard... and I’m so glad Kyle was there for this last one.
I'm hoping that Max does another with Part 2 with Kyle as a guest
Legendary spoilercast, this shit blew my mind with how deep you can go with the lore. Midgar a top 3 location in video game history btw.