My detoxification from authoritarian Christianity has been a slow painful crawl. Thank you for this video. As a therapist I see every week how toxic fear causes action paralysis, anxiety and depression.
Boy do I need this conversation. Entered the evangelical religious movement in 1985. Was married to a sociopathic pastor. Much therapy through the years. Really struggling still. The movement towards Trump has destroyed many relationships. Working towards healing 🙏
I always appreciate it SO much when men bring up patriarchy and the systemic oppression of women (34:00; 41:10); this is what true allyship looks like! Thank you Frank Schaeffer for being a demonstration of men who are willing to 'sit at the feet' of a woman to learn (something almost unheard of and unseen in evangelical and even mainline churches), and who actively take responsibility for naming gender privilege and gender-based violence, in all its forms from gross to subtle and hidden. Also, thank you SO much for your courage to share how you hit your daughter -wow, as well as being an 'world-class asshole by divine right' to your wife (41:40)! Modelling such integrity and accountability actually makes me love and respect you more!
This conversation resonates with me. Especially the difference between pulpit and home.... I was raised by a fanatical southern baptist minister. Thankfully when my dad was in his 50's he left the fanatical behind and became a very inclusive minister. He was still a Baptist Minister but he spent several years (till his death) at a church that thought like he did which went a long way in helping me. My dad was very apologetic for how he raised his kids and watching him become a real man of God who truly cared about his family, his church family and his community was so healing for me and our family.
Really appreciated this talk, I was raised in a relatively conservative Mexican Catholic family and after moving to the US I started to become fundamentalist about it in my high school and college years (mainly by going to the Mass that’s still done in Latin) and especially around 2016 I was hanging out with alt-right folks even if I wasn’t white enough for them (so maybe that was internalized racism on my part), after Trump got elected I became disillusioned with that movement and for the next four years I started shifting left slowly but surely but I was still very much loyal to the Church otherwise so I opposed abortion and marriage equality until the very end. And then when I started noticing that my church friends and online priests that I listened on this platform were more extreme than I was (especially on the science part, many of them turned out to be hardcore creationists to my horror and nowadays are anti-vaxxers from what I’ve heard) I started seeing that my worldview didn’t match with reality on several points and in 2019 it all fell apart when I figured that Original Sin was nonsense, I didn’t know how much Catholic theology depends on that one doctrine to function until that moment and without it basically Jesus died for nothing and Christianity is unnecessary judging by the theology I read from (maybe this is the real reason why many Christians refuse to accept evolution because if that Sin didn’t come from a couple in a garden where did it come from and how did everyone get it?). Although I suffered from brutal repression and shame for years all of that vanished when I deconverted as I figured I was going to hell anyways for rejecting core doctrine, I think the real trauma came afterwards when I was left without much of an identity or purpose and that took me to a really dark place mentally (at the time I thought something else caused it, it wasn’t until a couple of months ago I figured that it may have been RTS as I don’t remember ever being seriously depressed while I was still in) as I felt that I had nothing to live for or look forward to and to this day I still struggle with that which is why I’ll try to go back to therapy ASAP. Thank you for this presentation and I’m forever grateful for all her work.
I have recently learned about street epistemology as a method to effectively communicate. I sure wish I had of learned it 30 yrs ago. As much as I thought I had moved on from the religious trauma I was raised in (Mormon fundamentalist polygamy cult) I have so much hurt under my anger. Will be looking into the doctors resources for help in my work to heal. Thank you for sharing this important discussion.
I know what the anger is related to!! It’s from being highly controlled. It’s like abuse, we pass it down and the control is passed down to us so we get really impatient, resentful and angry too. It’s a self defense mechanism for sure
It seems as though they'd never read/heard the words of Christ. I'm a recovering Catholic. Have never looked back. Now I belong to The "Church of Holy Roman Kindness." I try to treat peeps as Christ would. Simple and oh so liberating!! I now clearly see the cult-like aspect of the RC, not as intense as other religions, but shamed for being human. I'm done with the concept of original sin. I questioned it as a small child and their explanation is full of holes anyway. I see a lot of religious trauma here in Utah. One light bulb that went off for me one time: Jesus said to love others as you love yourself. I only heard the love others part. Now, I am learning to practice the 2nd part. Beaten w a belt? Frank, there's your anger issue!
Frank and Marlene I too can totally emphasize with you. I too after much questioning have come out of fundemental Evangelism, but have retained my faith in God and the person of Jesus. After twenty years of no church going I have come across people who I can totally agree with. I had come to same conclusions. Check out Fr Richard Rohr Franciscan's Christ centred understanding. Brian McLaren, Paul Young's progressive Christianity and Brad Jerzak (Eastern Orthodox) have validated much to which I side with. There is good religion and there is bad. Fundelmentalism is unreality with biased blinkered blindness. Am I a Christian? Yes A Christ centred human who is both human with a divine centre. My Big True Self! Am I totally whole. Not yet but as John the Baptist said after baptizing Jesus, He (Christ in us) must increase and my small independent self must decrease. Christ is in ALL the non Christian simply is still unaware of this. Our walk (the light) rather than our talk (preaching judgement etc) draws them to God in the woof and fibre of everything. Our task is not to react but use our past experience to build on and progress in our journey. Frank and Marlene full marks for your honest dialogue. What needs to be done is love and live out REAL Christianity and not what you have been describing. 👏
Because, perhaps, in choosing to create, God by definition had to create Not-God. Flip the classic divine attributes and you get a pretty good description of our universe, do you not?
"White Privilege" is an Orwellian term. It makes it sound like we Whites have advantages others do not have. What it really means is that we Whites do not have Victim Status. That is, no matter what others do to us, we cannot be recognized as Victims of Racism. Blacks, of course, are always recognized as Victims of Racism when harmed. It does not even matter what they, as Blacks, do to deserve it either. Whites are injured and killed by Police too. It is just not reported in the US Media, at least not as often. When blacks are injured or killed by Police, especially White Police, it is all over the Media! I do not know about you, but this actually suggests to me that for all the hype about "White Supremacy", we actually live under Black Supremacy!
You obviously aren't a white woman who grew up in the 1960's. The real term is "White, Male Privilege". Otherwise you are just spouting that which you are whining about, which is "White Supremacy". I always wonder when you apologists tie yourselves in knots trying to "prove" this BS: Do you really believe this nonsense? Because it is logically and factually false. Poor Dude.
My detoxification from authoritarian Christianity has been a slow painful crawl. Thank you for this video. As a therapist I see every week how toxic fear causes action paralysis, anxiety and depression.
Boy do I need this conversation. Entered the evangelical religious movement in 1985. Was married to a sociopathic pastor. Much therapy through the years. Really struggling still. The movement towards Trump has destroyed many relationships. Working towards healing 🙏
I always appreciate it SO much when men bring up patriarchy and the systemic oppression of women (34:00; 41:10); this is what true allyship looks like! Thank you Frank Schaeffer for being a demonstration of men who are willing to 'sit at the feet' of a woman to learn (something almost unheard of and unseen in evangelical and even mainline churches), and who actively take responsibility for naming gender privilege and gender-based violence, in all its forms from gross to subtle and hidden. Also, thank you SO much for your courage to share how you hit your daughter -wow, as well as being an 'world-class asshole by divine right' to your wife (41:40)! Modelling such integrity and accountability actually makes me love and respect you more!
Amazing discussion, thank you both!
Frank, thank you SO MUCH for this timely and necessary interview!!
Thank you! I came from the evangelical community, and it’s been a lifetime of therapy to get healthy.
I haven’t visited anyone’s FaceBook page for years. I found this on RUclips so now I’ll break my aversion and visit yours, Frank.
This conversation resonates with me. Especially the difference between pulpit and home.... I was raised by a fanatical southern baptist minister. Thankfully when my dad was in his 50's he left the fanatical behind and became a very inclusive minister. He was still a Baptist Minister but he spent several years (till his death) at a church that thought like he did which went a long way in helping me. My dad was very apologetic for how he raised his kids and watching him become a real man of God who truly cared about his family, his church family and his community was so healing for me and our family.
Having been an atheist since I was about, say, eight or nine years old, my most sincere sympathies to all of you. BTW, I am now almost 79. 🧡🧡🧡
Totally agreed.
Thanks. Good talk.
Really appreciated this talk, I was raised in a relatively conservative Mexican Catholic family and after moving to the US I started to become fundamentalist about it in my high school and college years (mainly by going to the Mass that’s still done in Latin) and especially around 2016 I was hanging out with alt-right folks even if I wasn’t white enough for them (so maybe that was internalized racism on my part), after Trump got elected I became disillusioned with that movement and for the next four years I started shifting left slowly but surely but I was still very much loyal to the Church otherwise so I opposed abortion and marriage equality until the very end.
And then when I started noticing that my church friends and online priests that I listened on this platform were more extreme than I was (especially on the science part, many of them turned out to be hardcore creationists to my horror and nowadays are anti-vaxxers from what I’ve heard) I started seeing that my worldview didn’t match with reality on several points and in 2019 it all fell apart when I figured that Original Sin was nonsense, I didn’t know how much Catholic theology depends on that one doctrine to function until that moment and without it basically Jesus died for nothing and Christianity is unnecessary judging by the theology I read from (maybe this is the real reason why many Christians refuse to accept evolution because if that Sin didn’t come from a couple in a garden where did it come from and how did everyone get it?).
Although I suffered from brutal repression and shame for years all of that vanished when I deconverted as I figured I was going to hell anyways for rejecting core doctrine, I think the real trauma came afterwards when I was left without much of an identity or purpose and that took me to a really dark place mentally (at the time I thought something else caused it, it wasn’t until a couple of months ago I figured that it may have been RTS as I don’t remember ever being seriously depressed while I was still in) as I felt that I had nothing to live for or look forward to and to this day I still struggle with that which is why I’ll try to go back to therapy ASAP.
Thank you for this presentation and I’m forever grateful for all her work.
Big hugs and best wishes on your continued journey. x
YES!!! ABSOLUTELY!
This ENTIRE COUNTRY has suffered TERRIBLY these last 4+ years!!!
I have recently learned about street epistemology as a method to effectively communicate. I sure wish I had of learned it 30 yrs ago. As much as I thought I had moved on from the religious trauma I was raised in (Mormon fundamentalist polygamy cult) I have so much hurt under my anger. Will be looking into the doctors resources for help in my work to heal. Thank you for sharing this important discussion.
I know what the anger is related to!! It’s from being highly controlled. It’s like abuse, we pass it down and the control is passed down to us so we get really impatient, resentful and angry too. It’s a self defense mechanism for sure
I wish Marlene had sat next to my dad on an airplane. Lol. That would be quite a conversation.
this is why i chucked out calvinism. its pure, sick codependency.
Hai Frank aku bisa ketemu kamu di sini, semangat ya dan tetap jadi berkat. 👍👏😍🙏
👍👍👍👍
It seems as though they'd never read/heard the words of Christ. I'm a recovering Catholic. Have never looked back. Now I belong to The "Church of Holy Roman Kindness." I try to treat peeps as Christ would. Simple and oh so liberating!! I now clearly see the cult-like aspect of the RC, not as intense as other religions, but shamed for being human. I'm done with the concept of original sin. I questioned it as a small child and their explanation is full of holes anyway. I see a lot of religious trauma here in Utah. One light bulb that went off for me one time: Jesus said to love others as you love yourself. I only heard the love others part. Now, I am learning to practice the 2nd part. Beaten w a belt? Frank, there's your anger issue!
Frank and Marlene I too can totally emphasize with you. I too after much questioning have come out of fundemental Evangelism, but have retained my faith in God and the person of Jesus. After twenty years of no church going I have come across people who I can totally agree with. I had come to same conclusions. Check out Fr Richard Rohr Franciscan's Christ centred understanding. Brian McLaren, Paul Young's progressive Christianity and Brad Jerzak (Eastern Orthodox) have validated much to which I side with. There is good religion and there is bad. Fundelmentalism is unreality with biased blinkered blindness. Am I a Christian? Yes A Christ centred human who is both human with a divine centre. My Big True Self! Am I totally whole. Not yet but as John the Baptist said after baptizing Jesus, He (Christ in us) must increase and my small independent self must decrease. Christ is in ALL the non Christian simply is still unaware of this. Our walk (the light) rather than our talk (preaching judgement etc) draws them to God in the woof and fibre of everything. Our task is not to react but use our past experience to build on and progress in our journey. Frank and Marlene full marks for your honest dialogue. What needs to be done is love and live out REAL Christianity and not what you have been describing. 👏
If a loving God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, why does evil exist?
Because, perhaps, in choosing to create, God by definition had to create Not-God. Flip the classic divine attributes and you get a pretty good description of our universe, do you not?
Maybe it doesn't. Maybe we are all just biological creatures with a lt of self-importance seeping out of some of our ears.
Trump is a lot like Vladimir Lenin.
I think "Family Values" is a fundamentalist religion in USA. I feel like Im not American enough for Christianity.😜
"White Privilege" is an Orwellian term. It makes it sound like we Whites have advantages others do not have. What it really means is that we Whites do not have Victim Status. That is, no matter what others do to us, we cannot be recognized as Victims of Racism. Blacks, of course, are always recognized as Victims of Racism when harmed. It does not even matter what they, as Blacks, do to deserve it either. Whites are injured and killed by Police too. It is just not reported in the US Media, at least not as often. When blacks are injured or killed by Police, especially White Police, it is all over the Media! I do not know about you, but this actually suggests to me that for all the hype about "White Supremacy", we actually live under Black Supremacy!
Is there a black KKK?
@@marionopisso212 There are many!
@@marionopisso212 Black Panthers and Black Power
You obviously aren't a white woman who grew up in the 1960's. The real term is "White, Male Privilege". Otherwise you are just spouting that which you are whining about, which is "White Supremacy". I always wonder when you apologists tie yourselves in knots trying to "prove" this BS: Do you really believe this nonsense? Because it is logically and factually false. Poor Dude.