How to COMBAT DEFENSIVE PLAY in Smash Ultimate
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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Pro tips: dont shield
Me: perma shield
shielding is good but you cant do it in certain areas
“If you shield too long you’ll get shield poked” *me sweating nervously as I use Yoshi holding shield cause it doesn’t apply for me
yoshi gang yeah
soap soup funny thing is I use that catchphrase a lot I’ve never seen another use it 😂
By that logic everyone should be sweating except you lol
@@CJT49 yes
King ddd up b can only break yoshis shield
"Multi-hits will quickly eat up your shield" *bowser charging f smash while getting hit by a rapid jab* "ok"
The kids ain't gonna get that Daigo ref.
"There's a lot of safe moves"
Me: Uses a Spaced Wolf Fair while drifting away in training mode. "Alright so I'm like an entire block away"
Gets grabbed
What, you facing Melee Marth?
4:05 this is wrong. You have to include the frames between landing the move on shield and hitting the ground.
So unless you are landing palu's back air ONE frame before landing, it's not -5
Hey, thanks for commenting,. When I write scripts I pull data from UltimateFrameData.com, which has a convenient safe on shield figure. I generally trust the website since it's made by an FGC veteran. You are right that there is a lot of context when landing a move on shield though. The difference between safe and unsafe can come down to the tiniest bit of spacing and timing, whether or not you fast fall, character momentum, etc. It's not something I cover here because we have a video on safe moves specifically and even pros will use simplified frame data stats to make all this info digestible.
Austin Ryan Oh are you the guy who writes the scripts?
Quick correction, you can act 3 frames earlier than you normally would after a parry, not 3 frames earlier than the opponent. If a move is -7 on Shield, it’s -10 on parry, not -3
@Murasat Jr lol its for casuals calm down
@@shieldlesscap6124 I am! And good call. I had a feeling I was a little off on that. That's a good way of putting it, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
it is -5 if spaced optimally. Ofc if you space poorly and dont land at the right timings, then it will be laggeir. -5 is just the best it can be assuming perfect spacing. In reality though, it will generally be closer to -7 or -8, but some players are really really good at spacing everything incredibly well.
2:24 "When Smash 4 players call Ultimate clunky"
There is so much wrong with that
Smash 4 has much more jank
Unpopular opinion: ultimate is probably the smoothest game in the franchise and fastest since Melee, and would be faster if wave dashing was still a thing. It has clunk but omg I couldn't go back to Smash 4 after ultimate. I don't think I could play any of the other 4 at this point.
@@kylelacey1212 i can still comfortably play melee
Kyle Lacey that’s not at all an unpopular opinion
@@kylelacey1212 Smash ultimate has the highest amount of input lag around 120 milliseconds. Even Brawl had less. So I doubt you wouldn't be able to go back to Melee since that's one of the most responsive games in the entire series so far
"just grab lol"
Me just getting into the habit of shielding
just know when to shield, when to hold it longer long & when to let go, & mix up what you do out of shield.
Ultimate players: there’s too many safe moves
Melee players: laughs in melee
Let me introduce you to Falco laser
FabulousJejmaze and shine
Internet ‘wit’ is so fucking garbage.
@@YouAlreadyKnowBabi you already know
I got ranked maining jigglypuffs backair.
I now actually use my shield, I now need to remember to grab and parrying. I only got the game for Christmas and for a while I just thought that characters were op because I never shielded or dodged, I just only attacked. It made it very frustrating to play online where you go up against combo God jokers. Now that I am utilising more aspects of the game I am enjoying it much more!
Dave :p protip: try to outmaneuver your opponent if possible! Do this by pretending to go to one place then switch it up and change your positioning. This way your opponent swings at thin air, leaving them open for a punish
Keep on learning, it takes some time to get used to all the options you have, good luck and dont be discouraged if things seem hard 😊
Ahh yes I'm one of those combo God jokers hehe
@Dave :p who do you play?
@@spectre7877 I like to play king K rool and wario
Ah k rool is fox's best Mu
8:15 Props to this wavebounce vision tho.
8:14 so anyone saw how Lucina fell out of Shulk's up smash?
8:12
Just... How?? How did that not hit?
multihit jank
Shulk
It’s shulk, his smash attacks suck
I feel like all of you are correct.
@@Fenyll_Fur if you slow it down and play it frame by frame, you can see that Lucina DID get hit, she just fell out of the multihit and the strong hit whiffed.
the way i learned to parry was actually to just tap shield when im about to get hit its much easier to tap shield than try to release it at the right time
"5 frames is too short for human reaction times" Agreed, especially in a game with 7 FRAMES of input lag. Meaning if you react literally at the same time that safe frame updates on screen, that VERY 60th of a second, your move will not hit. In fact, it will on average miss by two whole frames. Smash Ultimate genuinely is clunky.
I love shield players, they're perfect for my throw game
Hmmm. Proguides talks about how Palutena has some 'busted' aspect in every video... If I knew any better, I'd say Proguides is really trying to get Palutena nerfed, but that can't be right....
That bitch needs nair nerfed to the ground so she can not nair train every character to death.
@@SwanPrincess899 lol name me a character that doesn't have a way to combo someone to 40 from a nair palus just hated cuz her way of doing it is easy
@spectre every character in the game can combo you well past 40% if you know what you're doing the difference with palu is that it take significantly less effort to do so, most combos take a mix of aerials, grabs, specials or some type of grounded move.
@@dashmasterboss8251 exactly the reason she's hated is her way of getting you past 40 is easy every can do it, it's just a lower floor for people who use palu
Kanae Crichelle if they do that then a lot of characters she originally invalidated will come up more and that may not necessarily be a good thing
I don't like how they needed defensive options so much. Yes playing defensive too much is annoying and boring, but now you get punished for successfully blocking a hit sometimes because of shield poke. I don't think the shield should nerfed as much as it was. The grab nerf was the only good defensive nerf. I'm glad they also added a parry, it compensates for some of the nerfs of the shield
Definitely deserve some shield buffs soon, tired of wackos getting rewarded for playing like maniacs
frame data is important but doesn't help all the time, there's priority and intangability/invincibility
How about a parry buff to improve that parry animation by a few frames. 3 frames suck. That would open the door for slower characters and act as a nerf to highly abuseable moves.
Are we ignoring Inkling's back air being +2 of endlag when you take shield stun into account
Any idea on how to stop grab-heavy opponents? Friend mains Bowser, will either ignore or destroy my shield
Honestly, against certain characters, it might just be better to short or full hop instead of shield. That way you can atleast threaten with your own aerial, and potentially reverse the offensive momentum.
the roy at 5:30 looked like they were more used to playing marth
A Palutena who knows the limitations of Nair is the scariest Palutena
This appears on my feed right after I kicked some butt online by shielding half the fight. coincidence?
"Don't shield"
Me, an intellectual:
Up-b out of shield
"5 frames is too fast for human reaction times" you forgot to account for the frames the game freezes on shieldstun, its actually more like 10-13 frames to react.
still too fast. Average human reaction speed is around 12 frames, and average input delay is around 6 frames. This means that, On average, things 17 frames or faster are unreactable. And this is before accounting for the frame data of whatever move you use to punish, dodge or move away or whatever you input. If you use a frame 3 jab for example as a reaction to something, then that would be 12 frames for your reaction speed, 6 frames of input delay, and 3 frames for your jab start up to actually come out meaning the jab hitbox will come out on frame 21 after the opponent input whatever move you reacted to.
This is also assuming you recognize the move and also know which punish you want to do right away without having to think about it as thinking would require more time.
In general, a lot of stuff in this game is pretty dang hard to react to, which is why a lot of smash is based on good spacing, option coverage, mix ups, and reads in order to outplay your opponent. Reaction punishes are still important, but for most characters and players, its unrealistic to react to most stuff.
JEANS according to GimR, it takes about 20 frames to react to a visual cue
Just know that shit is safe that's not even accounting for the Drift Away at max range u won't have time to run up & do a move under 5 frames not to mention the pay off for punishing them for it.
Too fast for humans, but not for cpus.
@@wesnohathas1993 WesNohathas if a move is stale itll add a few frames so easier to react to, then when you consider you can react to audio in 13 frames instead of the usual visual of 20, its very possible for humans to react to. like even the wizzy set at 4:41 he successfully reacted, if he input upspecial instead of upsmash there, it wouldve been a punish.
Hah! My main man Yoshi can't get shield poked!
PJiggles sent me here on their latest video
I hate shield shield in smash ultimate compare to smash 4 and garbs
Thanks for the content
Oh my bad I thought you guys were going to tell me how to beat a ledge camping mewtwo that just charges shadow ball and runs away when I approach
mujiha God the Mewtwo?
Platform camp
@@thegamingguy1 yeah I know. That's so lame and boring
Them: talking about 11 frames of shield drop being slow.
Me: Cant physically react fast enough to shield drop or basically anything in smash because I'm baaaaaaaaaad
I needed this, thank you
I like how Lucina straight up fell out of Shulk's up smash. Is ShUlK tOp TiEr NoW????
Very true. When I first transitioned from Smash 4 to Ultimate, I struggled because I was playing too defensively as if I was playing with Smash 4 mechanics. Finally, I learned that there's a much bigger balance of being defensive and being assertive.
Speaking of which, the one thing that helped me to unrust in Smash 4 was to decide to play defensive before even getting on the game. In Ultimate, it's more about getting on training and watching Ultimate videos to help shed off rust before playing online. Then, you got to learn how to switch between defense and aggression again when getting online.
By the way, check out a montage video that I made recently and let me know what feedback you have:
ruclips.net/video/93JsViKQyVA/видео.html
what i learned from this is that palutena also needs a nerf to back air as well as nair
Seeing that Up Smash not connect properly with shulk broke my heart.... Tis the 7th time today...
Is it just me or did they not even link to the previous video. "We're building off the terms from our first video, go watch it!", they say, but with no link in the corner, no name for the video mentioned for searching... my only option is to go look through the entire channel. Might want to fix that.
Here it is for anyone who had the same problem I did: ruclips.net/video/jSOyEFA10pg/видео.html
I’m surprised at how many people, even top players, don’t grab out of shield. Sure, not every character has a follow up and some grab ranges are ass especially when your opponent knows how to space properly, but in a lot of situations where these players fail to do this, getting ANY damage would benefit them more than trying to drop shield and start up some clever combo or punish.
Grabs are good people. They create space and lead into early edge guard situations that are easily the most important thing to optimize as edge guarding hasn’t been as important in Smash since Melee.
As the video said, know your grabs. Know when to use it. Optimization and game knowledge is everything in Smash
It’s literally one of the worst options oos
Greninja: Whats a shield?
Ok then, why would i do anything besides Palutenas back air?
Are you saying that perrying is better than sheilding? This video is confusing
This is helpful
Didn't they just make a video not too long ago about how "busted" defensive play is?
Palutena has the best safe move. If they butcher that there will be none left at all.
She doesn't need it she needs nair nerfed an not comboing into eachother to death
@@SwanPrincess899 My case is the safe mode butcher effects everybody except Palutena, but you're absolutely right.
@@SwanPrincess899 (I miss Smash 4 Palutena. I really do. Giving her explosive flame was all she needed. Giving her less end lag to *all* her aerials, and a broken down tilt was too much.)
Raheem Rohlehr
Sure she has better moves like a counter and her ariels but her teleport is quick and mostly unstable
"by far the fastest game in the series response wise" this is a joke right? The graphics pipeline makes average frame time to screen obnoxiously higher than any other smash game ranging from 90ms to 120ms at times. loooooool
you guys make some pretty good guides but please tone down the cringy jokes! good guides & info though, thanks!!
I feel as though it gives this more personality, which is more than can be said about some of their other videos
More jokes please they break up the video and help it be less monotonous
I NEEDED THIS I WAS ABOUT TO SAY
Me thinking about monado shield...
Does this guy have a RUclips channel of his own
Mario has a frame 3 up b
So does g&w
how to combat defensive play/shields?
proguides: *explains stuff about safe moves, frame data, rolling, etc*
me:
GRAB
this was just a rant on how broken Palutena’s back air is
Prove me wrong
The fan of Kirby more like how good palutenas back air is as far as learning frame data goes
I still whiff shield grabs... -_-
Shielding is broken. Just don’t. Jump away instead.
Wait what about spot dodging?
Covered in the first video
@@michaelcao ah thanks
Hope they release masterchief...
Game and watch disagrees with this video entirely
Just grab 4head
PJiggles sent me here
I got click baited
so close
This video has absolutely nothing to do with the title
Yeah but... jump oos...
just came to comment early!
C L I C K B A I T HEHEHEHEEHHEEH
This guide is just...wrong.
Moves need to be safe or else no one is gonna approach 🤷♂️ please stop referring to using moves as spamming its not just you its very prevalent in the community, but it's annoying
Not EVERY move needs to be safe.
Al Dali obviously 🙄 most aerials and tilts should be safe tho, if a char has no killconfirms they should have a somewhat safe smashattack aswell
Lol what's commitment in this game people don't know what ground moves are because they too busy hitting their 3 frame low risk/multitude of Rewards button
ken 700 jumping is a commitment in itself, but again low risk is mandatory in any fighting game or else no one is gonna take a risk at all you feel me
@@spreadlove8946 jumping is not a commitment lol
This video aged poorly
First
damn it