I've been recommended by a Protestant pastor to listen to James White. Well here I am and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. He seems uncharitable, arrogant, and deliberately obtuse through many portions of his debates. Regardless of the intellectual content of the debate, Jimmy more broadly embodies the type of person I'd want to associate with.
Jimmy Akin also crushed and i mean DEMOLISHED bart Erhman in their debate on gospel reliability. He also played with “other paul” like a cat with string in their sola scriptura debate. The man is incredible and was the very first catholic i ever spoke to. I called into catholic answers to find out what they believed paul was talking about when it came to “taking the eucharist unworthily” i was still Protestant then and going to a methodist church. After the oyster crackers and grape juice at service one day i went home and was flipping through scripture and landed on that passage. I thought “was i worthy to take communion today? Was everyone in church today worthy as well?” Then i thought “how would you know?” I had already been investigating Catholicism for a time but still attended a methodist church. I decided to call in to catholic answers for the first time. Jimmy had me going back to the scripture and examining everything about the eucharist. Then what the fathers said etc… i was confirmed a year later.
Now, I am sure you now know it hurts not to be able to take communion. You can do one of two things: 1) cross your arms, and if your line is the priest. It's a blessing. Or. 2) get on your knees and say the famous prayer for those who cannot take communion by St. Alphonsus Ligouri But you do NOT take the Eucharist unworthily... it is Sacrilege. You can still go to Eucharistic Adoration also. If you have sins on your plate and again you can pray that prayer for when you can't take communion. Thanks for telling us the story of what communion is like in other churches. We only hear of what communion is like at Separated Brethern churches, temples or halls. Sometimes it is monthly we hear?? Welcome Home!
@@richardcastro1276 Yep. Im so glad to have learned! I was raised methodist and in our church communion was only 4 times a year on each quater of the year. Im not sure but i think they do it for the Wesleyan quadrilateral. Methodism is not a sola scriptura Protestant denomination. They hold to a quadrilateral ( scripture, personal experice, tradition, and logic) many methodists have never even heard of the quad. Most think theyre sola scripturists…. These days they say well scripture is the only ultimate authority but i cannot be understood without reason, personal experience, and tradition.
Jimmy I couldn’t be more proud of you and your amazing presentation/ debate. Thank you for defending our ONE and ONLY TRUE CHURCH ⛪️ our Christian Catholic. May God bless you and our holy mother Mary pray for you to her son.
Interesting! The Orthodox churches claim their church is the only one and only true church. Perhaps this claim is not helpful in promoting interdenominational dialogue.
James White really seems like the type of Christian that turns people off of Christianity. He comes across as unpleasant, uncharitable, and evasive. I have questions about some of the doctrines of Catholicism. But, there is no doubt that Jimmy Akin is a far better ambassador for faith in Christ. It's not even close.
I don’t understand Mr. White’s strategy during these debates. His position during these debates is “I don’t like the Catholic Church for the following 8 reasons” even though they are talking about one subject.
And don’t worry, he’ll tell you about all his other debates he’s done too! Let’s just toss out 20 different topics that I believe are wrong about the Catholic Church, and then I’ll sit here and roll my eyes, smirk and laugh at questions, and act completely annoyed the whole time!
Yet not telling us at all how to have peace with God. He didn't even present the Roman Catholic position. Just parts of it that are generally in agreement.
@@KnightFel Christ Founded a United Church that canonized its Scriptures. The Devil inspired protestants to twist those scriptures to justify a thousand sub-cults that agree on very little other than their false representation of Christ's actual Church. Seems pretty straightforward to anyone not indoctrinated by these man-made cults' leaders.
@@Jrce11 Not at all brother. He spoke about maybe 10% of Roman Catholic Salvation. It's WAY more complicated and WAY off from the biblical gospel than he's saying. Be real. The Roman Catholic gospel is depressing and terrifying. Knowing your heart and your mind, the mortal sins of in thought one commits often, the breaking of the greatest commandment everyday, yeah, it's depressing. There is no peace in the Roman gospel.
Remember, James White is the best Protestantism has to offer. Catholicism simply is too strong an argument to defeat. I was in the Calvinist cult and upon experiencing God, He led me to His church - the Catholic Church that has remained in succession from the first century till today. Whereas the Protestants came 16 centuries later and drastically changed the faith and made a new religion - not only removing 7 books of the Bible that they disagreed with, but changing the faith itself. It has divided Christendom and divided it into oblivion. God tells Satan is the divider. God tells us He is not the author of confusion.
I am just now coming out of the reformed world, after 20 years. Catholicism just makes more sense. When I finally stopped to think about why there are so many divisions and endless splitting I realized sola scriptura and private judgement were the main reasons, but behind them was the rejection of the authority of the church. That’s the core of Protestantism. The result is individualism, subjectivism, and relativism. I haven’t watched the debate yet, but Akin clearly won the last one.
I know we aren't suppose to judge as Christians, but as a Protestant I have to say that Jimmy Akin won this debate by using both scripture and history to back up his claims. It looks like reading through the comment section that seems to be the consensus. I am definitely more intrigued by Catholicism now more than before... I think there's certain so called "truths" that have been ingrained in all of us, but until you're willing to listen to the 'horses mouth' from the other side (not just accept what others have told you to confirm our preconceived notions), then you're not really open to the fullness of truth. (This can be applied to all traditions of faith).... My two cents.
@robertdelisle7309 Early Christians celebrated Mass, venerated saints, obeyed apostolic succession bishops and acknowledged the papacy - meaning they were capital C Catholics.
Tends to happen when your sister and brother in law convert to Catholicism despite his attempts to dissuade them. And then your sister goes on T.V to say he is really good at defeating strawman 😂. (Tbh I would feel the same in his place! No disrespect to the man)
I'm Orthodox Christian so I don't agree with Catholicism but we agree on 99.9% of things. Jimmy Akin is a gift from God. I only like James White when he is debating atheists. Jimmy Akin demolished him here. I hope Mr. White gets over his hatred for Catholics.
@@andycopeland7051 Catholics, Orthodox, and many if not most Protestants accept that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Some Protestants do not, 2 billion or so Christians are all wrong and going to hell. This is that guy.
I can always tell when someone is a liar or when someone is honest. Take this thread...Basileusnilus claiming Jimmy "demolished" him shows me he is a liar. Of course you can think one guy made better points and won the debate, but no one was demolished here. Both guys stated their case clearly and articulately. It's always easy to spot truth tellers from the liars...you just have to look for it.
White proposed the debate topic of The meaning of peace with God, then spends his entire response attacking ancillary teachings of the Catholic Church. Why did he propose a topic if he didn’t intend to debate it?
Jimmy Akin agreed with the affirmative position, i.e. his opponents from the get go, line by line. There is no where for the debate to go except for what the RCC teaches on what those points actually mean from dogmatic, doctrinal, and practical levels, which is where the debate did end up going.
James White is obviously filled with a demonic presence and the fruits of that serpent flow forth from him anytime he speaks. It is horrifying to behold.
Because he wants to point out that it is only through the finished work of Christ according to what the Scriptures teach that we have peace with God and not these other dogmas that reduces Christ work as insufficient
While you groom your comment, don't forget that many Muslims also affirmed how The Bible led them to Islam. If Dr. White led you to Catholicism, I am absolutely certain that you are not saved. Remember what Dr. Bart Ehrman attributed his then atheism and now agnosticism to: The Bible. Repent.
@@Merih98614 Actually no, when I became a Christian, I read the materials on Alpha and Omega Ministries website extensively. I found his coverage of Catholic issues to be biased and unconvincing. Of course, this did not singlehandedly make me a Catholic, but Reform doctrines on Sola scriptura, the atonement, the sacraments and church history as represented by Alpha and Omega helped me to the Church. I was received into Church in 2009.
Sadly, my experience with Protestants is they seem to be of the entitlement of being the accuser of my Catholic faith. No matter of my deep and profound love of the Trinity, scripture, faith, hope and love, I’m not living a life of faith at least not in their eyes. May God have mercy on them.
That is how everybody feels when their faith is attacked; Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox. Just remember that these arguments are about religiously binding authority and not your personal faith in God, regardless of how you practice it. These debates are really a book selling carnival that also brings in revenue for the hosting church. Remember that church numbers are down across the country, which means church revenues are down. It reminds me of wrestle mania for the church.
@@idankpoaugustine1983 The debate road show that speaks to two opposing teams? Check out the comments. I don’t see anybody turning to Christ… 😄 Evangelising whom? Are you sure this isn’t a sporting event? I’ll stick to solid teaching from either faith thank you. At least you can digest and look up what is being taught at your leisure and see if it makes sense.
Salvation is not by works and any vague definition of belief is sufficient unto salvation, unless you are Catholic, then you are surely damned. That's like the gospel, dude. It's literally what scripture says. I mean, why do you choose to be a member of the whore of Babylon? Join pastor Jim's church with me and become truly born again.
The fact that James White's channel of Aplha and Omega Ministries has comments turned off on all his videos, while Jimmy Akin's RUclips channel allows comments, is all you need to know. One of these individuals isn't afraid to defend the truth. The other is afraid to face the truth. I'll let those who read this decide for themselves who those individuals are.
Actually that says nothing more than that one is 10x more popular and thus attracts more bigots. I would also want to keep _my_ channel free from insults in the comment sections.
@@ora_et_labora1095 The very fact that James White doesn't allow commentary on his videos is a telltale sign he is afraid to face the truth. He is all about finding "his truth", but he is vehemently opposed to the truth. Whether or not some people choose to use the comments section for insults is irrelevant to this fact.
"Afraid to face the truth." Does more than 180 public moderated debates. Catholics multiple times, Muslims in their own mosques, shares the gospel outside mormon temples. Yep, he's downright terrified. @CantStopTheMattWalsh
@@SoliDeoGloria237 The same could be said of Jimmy Akin. He has done plenty of moderated debates. Shared the gospel. And debated against those outside of the Christian faith. The question then becomes, why is he willing to allow dialogue on his channel, but James White isn't?
@@CantStopTheMattWalsh The real question is, why do you engage in an Ad Hominem attack against Dr. White rather than engage with his views? Proverbs 14:7
White has an annoying tactic of throwing out Greek words as if just saying the word is supposed to reveal some clarification. In reality, the tactic is supposed to convince the audience of White’s authority and therefore enhance his credibility. It is a bad debate tactic. Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument.
"Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument" Original Languages matter in this debate and Jimmy Akin cannot exegete. Also Roman Catholicism is false: ruclips.net/video/UCbBUQztE6M/видео.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
@@samuelaguilar9668Make a list of timestamps of the number of times that James White uses a Greek word. Identify which of those times describes the context meaningfully as part of an argument relevant to the proposition. It should be easy enough to figure out whether the top level comment is correct or whether it is just speaking out of its own impressions.
@@samuelaguilar9668have you ever tried thinking for yourself? It's pretty powerful stuff. At least if you're going to submit your will in obedience, don't do it on behalf of an ego like James White's.
Dr John Bergsma on pints with acquinas gives an excellent presentation on the biblical foundations of the priesthood. Dr Bergsma is an ex Protestant minister - and really hits a home run on the showing how the Bible teaches this
Question to James White: "Do you agree that 2+2=4?" James White: "Yes" Question to James White: "Do you agree that to arrive at the number 4 from adding two numbers together, that a *calculation* must have taken place?" James White: "No"
It is interesting to note that the first reading for Sunday is in Acts 9, the Church is at peace when we walk with God. And we walk with God when we do what Jesus instructs us to do. All I came away with from Mr White is "I hate the Church". What I got from Mr Akin was "Repent, Believe, be baptised; and when I sin later, Repent, Believe and get forgiven." Sounds like walking with God and being at peace with God to me.
I remember before I came to the Catholic faith I learned I was Protestant and figured out the definition of Protestant was to Protest, and I was like Protest? What am I protesting, and after asking that question I became Catholic a year later.
You might want to spend time reading what Scripture says and see how much of it contradicts the Dogmas and doctrines of Roman Catholicism - they are all over the place. Sadly Mr. Akin was all over the place and trying to put words in James White's mouth instead of accurately representing Roman Catholicism.
Study the Protestant Revolution. Christian men had the skin peeled from their living bodies because the simply wanted to read the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church is pure evil
Probably protesting indulgences, exaltation of Mary, Catholic Priest Pedophiles, burning Christians for translating the bible into English, etc. Stuff like that I would imagine...
@@kcwmjb I find that Protestants often have a horrible understanding of Catholicism, whereas we also read scripture and in full not cherry picking and with very well thought out correlations and details and many years of knowledge and judgement and reason behind it. There is a big difference within different Catholic churches and peoples own personal faith is their own. The major problem is Catholic, Orthodox, and many Protestants feel other Christians are brothers and sisters, and some Protestants do not. That is this guy.
James White will have to answer for that. Cause he kept you away from the Truth. The church was created to guard the truth and the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ. So if you were considering coming to the Truth and James White made you walk away then he’s in big trouble. 😞
I love the collegial spirit of this debate. Such attitudes do more to unite The Church than divide it. - From a humble reformed Baptist in search of Truth. ❤️🙏
@@laymanchristian1138 Likewise. From what I see, there’s a lot more Catholics exercising humility than Protestants at the moment. I’m saying this as a Protestant.
I'm not a fan of JW, but I started to feel sorry for him during the cross-examination when Jimmy Akin was questioning him. Jimmy did an excellent job, and I also liked his rebuttals. JW should consider retiring from debating after this one.
@@DD-bx8rb If he repents and comes to the Catholic Church, it's better for his soul. He can also bring others to the Catholic faith. I've seen Protestant converts bring many to the Catholic Church.
@@vigilantezack "The corruption of Rome" is simply an old Protestant myth aimed to damage the authority of Christ's holy Church. It is a combination of exaggeration of history, coupled with an attack on true doctrines. The Protestant threw out the most important and deepest aspects of the Faith. Pax
James White: "It's obvious if you read the Bible that my minority, niche theology that excludes all apostolic and most protestant churches, is the only possible interpretation."
@@westb1028 There are contradictory ideas expressed in the NT. Romans 2:5-11. We are judged by deeds. That's the same Paul that y'all quote about saved by faith alone.
Where the Bishop appears there let the people be. Just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. St. Ignatius of Antioch. 107 AD 🍷🍞🔑⛪️📿✝️📖📝🕊🫶🏻🔥😇
30:05 Yes these quotes are verbatim although quoted from different sections of the Cathecism: 571 Comes from Nicenean Creed, which we repeat at almost all masses. All days of the year, throughout the world in different languages. 571 is under the section of the Creed which is what we believe stated in the Creed about the Son. Oh and there is a reference *Hebrews 9:26* 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 1545 appears in the Sacraments-Service (mass) section under heading " The one prieshood of Christ" Ref, Hebrews 8:4 and St. Thomas Aquinas. 2771 This is related to how we pray, this is in the Our Father prayer. But to understand it all you'd have to read entries 2767 to 2776... with several bible verses referenced. This whole section is beautiful. I pray the Our Father several times daily. Good to know the Church's details on this prayer.
I recommend to all who speak Spanish to watch the best apologist by far, his name is Padre Luis Toro. I have not seen anybody else debate as clearly as him using the bible. He is phenomenal, truly gifted and has helped many protestants return to the Catholic faith. I don't know if any of his debates have been translated to English, maybe someone out there can do this if allowed!
As a Protestant for over 60 years, I have now moved even closer to converting to Catholicism after listening to this debate. Mr White's obvious distain for Catholics and his arrogance (sir, you need not constantly make reference to how many times you have debated Catholics) only distracts from his arguments. If you can not present your position w/out constantly attacking your opponents, your argument appears weak. During this debate, it was weak. Thank you Mr Akin!
Why does akin ignore the points about Mary? It just seems anything that might be considered dogma or exegetical heresy is just ignored by the Catholic Church.
If you're reading this, watch Dr. White's debate against Trent Horn on eternal security. That debate, along with the Pat Madrid vs James White debate on Sola Scriptura is what opened my eyes to the truth of Catholicism, having watched both as a Baptist.
1:00:18 can a Protestant explain to me what James White was trying to illustrate during his cross-examination period? I can understand what Jimmy was trying to illustrate, but not James.
So I think White’s trying to illustrate a contradiction between the claims that at the moment of justification all sins are forgiven by way of our sin being imputed to Christ on Calvary and His righteousness being imputed to us and Akin’s position that one can not only choose to sin and thus become “less righteous” but also a person can commit a sin serious enough that he rejects the righteousness of God in him (murder, apostasy, etc.). As a Calvinist/Reformed Christian, White believes that one cannot reject the righteousness of God (irresistible grace) at justification and that one who is saved cannot do anything that would change that. God saves. Period. There’s no cooperation from us that is salvific. You cant lose your salvation because it was never your choice to begin with. In the second half, White is trying (not very well) to get Akin to admit that he believes all people can be saved, that’s Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary was sufficient for all and that we should truly hope that all may be saved. Akin readily grants this-White doesn’t try to follow up though with typical Calvinist responses. White, again being a Calvinist, believes that Christ’s sacrifice is not sufficient for all, but that Christ only died for the Elect, those whom God predestined to be saved. White is trying to get Akin to say he’s a universalist, or at least a mitigated universalism where we should hope for the salvation of all. Calvinists hold that this contradicts the Gospel where Jesus routinely and often speaks of the reality of hell and of those in it. The thing is, Akin will readily admit to that.
That final question to catholics thing just fell so flat. It's the same old trope that we catholics are nail-biting about our salvation. I don't know anyone like that. In fact, it's such a wonderful comfort knowing confession is there for us. What a gift the sacraments are!
Completely untrue, Catholics can’t answer the question of whether they’ll go to heaven at death. That’s the saddest thing I’ve ever heard as a Protestant, jimmy atkins wasn’t able to explain having peace with God. Peace every Sunday is not full peace, Monday to Friday sinning.
@@joshgage7337 We will go to heaven if we die in friendship with God, in obedience. As commanded. How does one know they are in friendship with God? First listen to the Church and read Scripture. Be baptized to receive justification. And then obey the commandments to not fall away. If you succumb to weakness and commit mortal sin, receive confession. Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn have both sufficiently and irrefutably answered this. I encourage you to study and pray. God bless.
I pray all who attended becomes catholic because of this. Jimmy is great at planting seeds and I hope everyone does their research and see the truth of the one true apostolic faith. Come on everyone. Jesus prayed for us all to be one church. Stop being prideful or ignorant about the faith. It’s time we all come back to Mass and worship Jesus our Lord the way we were meant to. God bless.
@ChristIsLord7, didn't you pay any attention to this debate? Especially, the opening statement? Hebrews clearly states that Christ offered Himself once for all time at the cross. It doesn't have to be repeated ever again. There's no need for a Re-Presentation which is actually a Re-sacrifice every Sunday. Yet the Roman Church blasphemes by doing this.
I pray that lost papists will be converted and regenerated by the Holy Spirit as they hear the Scriptures expounded. All papists are lost, including Akin.
White is a brilliant well schooled Protestant but he is not a charitable statesman. Unfortunately, he comes across as a bit angry, rude, and a bit arrogant.
he acts as though it is a threat to his carefully cultivated, narrow worldview. If he were to give it even the slightest "benefit of the doubt" he acts like it might unravel his whole carefully crafted narrative.
Tillich (a Protestant (Lutheran) scholar) taught that we are to "embody the truth we advocate." If attitude were the base line of our truth, then White may want to rethink the impression his version of truth leaves on his hearers. While Akin can come across as a bit condescending at times, he certainly comes closer to charity in his presentation. BTW: The host did a good job of getting out of the way, maintaining dignity of the participants and managing the event as it unfolded.
One of the problems i find with protestantism is that they question and reject apostolic siccession, papacy and magisterium… and yet, they want all of those to reside in one person, in the person of the protestant pastor and each protestant followers.
“One of the problems I find with Protestantism is this thing that no Protestant argues for” the scripture alone is the infallible authority. The church is also an authority in the life of a Protestant, but isn’t infallible. Protestant pastors aren’t popes. We follow the apostles by following their teachings as communicated through scripture.
@@weselo8305Catholics are not that different, we also interpret the bible individually, however, when it comes to critical things such as baptism, how do we decide who interprets it correctly?
@@zeegovna5109 Ultimately on tough questions, you read the Word, listen to trusted people who have looked into it on different sides, and decide which position better aligns with the Word. There is no reason to think we have a single infallible interpreter (other than Scripture itself interpreting itself)
@@weselo8305but scripture itself doesn’t interpret itself, thats why i brought up baptism. I trust my protestant friend on many things, but he doesnt believe the same as me on baptism
Watching James White try to support his positions is like watching someone try to build a house of cards on a paddle board in the ocean. As a former Protestant, I find listening to him to be a faithful building because it makes me so thankful for the solid ground I now stand on in my Catholic faith and union with Christ together with his Church.
Holy cow, White just started his concluding statement, and he's _yet again_ reminiscing about debates he did back 30+ years ago. Guy just can't move _on._ Somebody give him an intervention ...or else a retrospective on VH1!
Why wouldn't he? Arguments for truth do not change. Not now, not 2000 years ago. He's done so many debates that he's more than free to use the past to prove points. There is no need for him to change, no need for new arguments, especially when it comes to the gospel. Cry more.
Well, maybe he brings them up because in those times he actually had the opportunity to debate some honest, orthodox Roman Catholics. And because in his opening presentation Akin basically said that the Reformation was right, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, which is the main point the reformers fought for in the XVI c.
So many great parts in this debate. For example, I loved the part during Jimmy’s cross examination where White essentially affirms and denies important entailments of purgatory almost simultaneously.
The pastors of the flock of Protestantism pick and choose selectively which passages to twist to fit their versions of the "gospel" and what to leave out entirely or explain away. Jesus warned us of such "wolves in sheep's clothing" and that we would know them by their fruits--or lack thereof.
What is so sad about this debate is that James White simply is not looking for common ground on which to build a dialogue, but seemingly just wants to prove he is right and the Catholic Church is wrong. His entire religion is to prove the Catholic Church wrong. It is sad that he says "faith in love", but truly does not know love. And if one does not know love then he does not know God.
Quite the assumption to say he isn't loving. Listen to his arguments, don't judge him for his tone during a debate. Debates aren't for finding common ground
If you believe his arguments to be true that's all right with me. Every person comes to the Truth on their own path. Yet, it is how we behave on that path that makes us Christian.
of course he wants to prove he is right, anything else wouldn't be loving. if you know someone's house is on fire, you should with all your might tell that person that his house is on fire and that he should get out now..
I'd have to agree to an extent. I especially don't like the way he uses Roman-Catholic as an epithet, even though he's been politely corrected numerous times on the nomenclature.
I became Catholic after 30 ish years evangelical. Bad theology =bad marriage. Grateful things have improved after we both became Catholic. Praying for James White and his marriage.
@@SerenityNow22 Hi, Sarah. You do realise, do you not, that Catholicism claims that Paul was and is Catholic, that Galatians is a Catholic book, that Galatians is inspired, and that it was the Catholic Church which included Galatians in the canon of inspired books, so that Galatians is in the Bible? I'm not here asking you to agree with the Church's claims, but just to recognise that the Church understands Galatians to be part of God's revelation and so part of His patrimony to the Church. Since the Church holds that God is one, and that truth is one, whatever the Church holds about the question of salvation, of justification, of the relationship between faith and works has to be compatible with what Paul taught the Galatians and wrote to them in his letter. Again, I'm not asking you to agree that the Church's doctrine on these matters is compatible with Galatians, but only that She understand that it is compatible. The question then is, what does the Church understand about these matters, and about what Paul taught the Galatians, which allows Her to think that they work well together? Clearly what Protestants claim the Church reaches is not compatible with what Protestants claim Paul teaches the Galatians, so there is a fundamental disagreement between Catholic and Protestant about what the Church teaches on these matters and what Protestants claim the Church teaches about these matters. Since it is the Church teaching about what She teaches about these matters, the reasonable supposition is that Protestant claims about Catholic teachings are mistaken.
An elementary school Catholic catechism student could have told Dr White that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was once and for all time. Dr White just doesn’t understand Catholic teaching. Maybe someday he’ll actually put aside his assumptions and honestly listen. I pray for his conversion.
Honestly I've never seen a debater lose so many debates consecutively, James White astonishes me. One of the single best Catholic Apologists it must MUST be a secret plan.
Lol, I have a legit question. White asserts that Protestants who actually practice "by Scripture alone" are more united than Christians who have tradition as well. Do you think that is really the case? Do you think White is probably defining away a lot of other Protestant Christians who would severely disagree with his understanding of the Bible?
At the 1:14:10 mark Dr. White never offers an explanation to Akin’s question. He admits many Christians aren’t completely, experientially righteous at death but they are in heaven. He attacks purgatory etc. but offers no explanation on how or when that happens, let alone provide scriptural support for it. If I missed it, someone please direct me to it.
Too skillful in saying "TOO MANY WORDS" - thereby dodging what Scripture says? Terms matter, for definition of terms show understanding - because if you're understanding of how to approach God is wrong, you're going to the Lake of Fire. You've got to nail this, you can only do so withing your lifetime. So here's an idea: how about if you show how Dr. White is BIBILICALLY wrong instead of insulting him?
As a Catholic I always try and take the side of the opposition in a debate in the interest of truth, but it is actually really difficult to try and be on James Whites side because he is way overly aggressive and insanely prideful it oozes from his demeanor and the way he speaks and after two hours its extremely tiring
Imagine spending decades arguing with people and still not understanding the faith you are arguing for, that unfortunately is James White. I think he means well, he’s just so angry that it makes it hard to tell.
I don’t think he understands his opposition either. And yes, he comes off as so very angry. The body language, the eye rolls, the smirks. It’s extremely unsettling
@@gc3563 Yeah he does understand the opposition. The only ones claiming that he doesn't understand Roman Catholicism are youtube apologist. None of his opponents on the stage have claimed that his understanding is incorrect. So your comment means nothing.
@@KnightFel if my comment means nothing, and that’s fine it’s just my opinion, then same goes to you. You are entitled to your opinion as well, but your comment means nothing.
White should have selected a different topic as he's all over the map - wanting to know about: the Sacraments, the role of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces which come to us ultimately from Jesus' death on the Cross, the Holy Mass, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc. If White wanted to talk about that we'd all be happy to listen, but he should have selected a different topic or add more nights to allow for additional topics.
@@groatswerth2073 I would be too if a family member converted to a heretical institution whose gospel cannot save nor give you peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Akim What is the point to analize anathema with the catholic concept?, it is better to analize the word with the greek of the old testament, in which cleary the word means cursed, not to be separated, Jim should differentiate the faith in Jesus and the faith in the path of the christian, the faith in Jesus is enough to be justified as haopened with abraham, but other thing is the faith in the path of the Christian, in which can shake and doubt cause we are humans.
1:14:50 - Gentlemen do not take into account Christ's accounting, adding up, summarizing judgment for the work done on earth. When a person dies, he is judged and undergoes a trial by fire - the trial by fire is a judgment of your entire life and state of sanctification. 1 Corinthians 3:12 - 15.
I honestly don't get the comments on this one, everyone is talking about James Whites tone, trying to find common ground and being charitable. First its a debate we want clash to see the clash of ideas we don't want common ground where equivications make it impossible to understand the differences (Something Jimmy Akin did) Second if you want to be charitable, actually do a rebuttle. Jimmy avoided twice doing a rebuttle and just did his own presentation ignoring his opponent on purpose how is that charitable. Siting that James White did a gish gallop. When all he was trying to do was to show where the ideas clashed by the numerous differences in the outcomes of the doctrines, so that there could be meaningful clash. And if anyone has watched a number of James Whites debates you'll see how he deals with arguments like that against him. He addressed them shortly and quickly, rather than ignoring his opponent and poisoning the well accusing him of bad behaviour (clashing with the man rather than the idieas). Third critisising catholic teachings is fair game in a debate, its not attacking the man, and it shows the outcome of the ideas. The only question you need to ask is "Are the ideas related to peace with God?" I feel like everyone in the comments are a bunch of people who came to watch a soccer game and are complaining that one side is kicking the ball, while the other one is trying to be nice to the ball. You came to watch soccer the ball is going to get kicked. - The problem comes when you kick the man. It is loving to disagree vigorously and openly because that is the correct way. It is deceitful to conceal disagreement behind a pretense of good manners. Christians have to start learning the difference between being nice and being loving.
Incorrect. How about you watch Jimmy Akin's debate debrief and get a better picture of what the debate was supposed to be. White is a dishonest debater.
Yes through faith and prayer and specially confessed to our priest my sins first I didmy novena to our Blessed Virgin Mary and to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and praying the 3:00 o’clock pm prayer Hour of Mercy of the Divine Mercy every day Mama Mary and Lord Jesus answered my petition and miracles happened to me on June 1997
James White - spends two hours being vicious, petty, and uncharitable to Catholics. Host - "stick around for James White's free seminar on how to love Catholics" 😂😂😂😂
Would you have said that to Elijah, on Mount Carmel, when he was chastising the people of Israel, and subsequently ordering the deaths of all the false prophets? James was tame, by comparison. False gospel teaching is damnable. The apostle Paul used the anathema word against those who preached a false gospel. James was tame, by comparison....
@@michaelsowerby8198 It's Whites lack of knowlege of Christianity and his belief that he has knowledge that is the problem. If he himbles himself Christ will make him Catholic
Can you name an example in this debate where James was being vicious or petty beyond what would be considered acceptable in a debate format? Timestamps would be awesome.
James makes Jesus out to be liar and undependable, no less that he did NOT lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Jesus made numerous statements about his Church, nearly 2000 years before James came along: Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18) Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10) *Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13) Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20) Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
@@clemenaparente9773 True This: James disagrees with ALL kinds of protestant denominations - and Sola Scriptura gives him no authority to say his fallible interpretation of scripture is right, and they wrong.
"If you wish to persuade and convince me without fail: first be able think my thoughts inside your mind, second feel my feelings as someone in my circumstances would, and third, produce my my words but through your voice." Marcus Tullius Cicero
Pastor Brian Gunter speaking at 5:02-07: "The question of tonight's debate is 'How does one find peace with God'"? Response: Jesus speaking to His disciples at the Last Supper in John 14: 27 (NASB): “Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." Answer: Likewise, wouldn't Christians find this gift of peace from Jesus at their own commemoration of His Last Supper?
Akin doesn't address the issue. How and why purgatory, indulgences, mass, Mary as co-redemptrix, penance, priestly absolution, and any others that Rome requires for salvation. He says 'not enough time. 'frustrating. He also conflates justification as legal standing with meaning that we become exactly like Jesus in every way! That's ridiculous and not making any effort to understand what protestants are claiming that biblical justification means. disagree but explain why, that's the point of a debate, don't claim nonsense that Protestants claim that every knee will bow to each of us!
So let me get this straight. Jimmy starts his opening statement by saying we shouldn’t quarrel about definitions. Then proceeds to redefine terms and what? Expect not to be challenged on the redefinitions?
@@KnightFelfalse. We are not experientially perfect when we die, obviously. We need to be really perfect to enter heaven. Explain the change. Purgatory explains the change. White does not and cannot.
@@KnightFel The Gospel does not run counter to Purgatory. The Catholic Church could not to teach Purgatory if it was contrary. If you can point to the contradiction, then I will agree with you.
Yes it does Purgatory Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place. Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14) Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Leviticus 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lamentations 3:39) St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory. Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD. 2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:29) Indulgence We have an express example of a temporal penance given and then relaxed (an indulgence), straight from the Apostle Paul. He imposed a penance on a man who had sinned (1 Corinthians 5:3-5). Later, he relaxed it:
I find James White to be disingenuous by always taking cheap shots. His comment about Pope Honorius was an example of how protestants stretch the truth to disprove infallibility. Honorius never taught heresy, he never expressed heresy in any public pronouncements, or sermon. He was in discussion about a heresy that was being taught by Patriarch Sergius of Constantinople. As Pope (bishop of Rome) successor of St Peter, his role was protector of the faith and to be the point of unity. In an attempt to somehow bridge the divide between Constantinople and the rest of the Church he did write several letters to the north African bishops and Sergius to discuss options or ways to remedy the situation. Weather he held personal beliefs that were considered heretical is debatable, never the less 41 years after his death he was pronounced a heretic. 41 years, is a long time and shows this issue had prolonged effect on the Church. Having a personal belief is different than officially proclaiming that belief as a infallible truth, which he did not. It is like a judge having personal issues with a particular law, and he may discuss it with other judges, but he never allows this issue to interfere with his duty of distributing justice under existing law.
@goyonman9655 Read the actual history behind it, not the protestant propaganda. It was thought he held the view personally. Again, their is no evidence anywhere that he taught heresy. The charge came 41 years after his death, no one with any knowledge of the situation was still alive to defend him. This had political implications as well.
The disarming of Dr White leaves him upset because there is nothing to argue about. " Then why am I angry at the Catholic Church? Dr White is nervous at the 1:12. He just cannot agree that water quenches your thirst. Dr White disagree's with everyone even the moderator on the end times, what a fearful life. Unless you believe your always right.
He most certainly did not, IF you believe THE BIBLE. God's Word and God's Yruth. Not sinful fallible man's version of it. Your Choice. I trust God. He is trustworthy, faithful & perfect!!!🙏🙏🙏
Youre right… ive never met a protestant that believed romans 2. He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Their theology wont allow it…. So they use romans 3, Ephesians 2 to refute that passage. Literally turning the bible against itself instead of recognizing paul is talking about different categories of works. They recognize a difference in works of the spirit, works of the flesh, and works of darkness. But when it comes to works of the law and good works…. They HAVE to believe theyre the same thing but an easy way to prove theyre different is look at christ’s words in matthew 25. for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Now imagine christ sticking a work of the law in there like circumcision or ritual washing…. It feels super alien but imagine him adding another good work of love like sheltering the homeless and it fits just fine. Easy.
@@timboslice980 "ive never met a protestant that believed romans 2" I believe in Romans 2. So I'm going to ask, has anyone ever PERSEVERINGLY, CONSISTENTLY, PERFECTLY FULFILLED GOD'S LAW - PERFECTLY - other than Christ Jesus ? Verse 7 & 10 says "The Doing The Good" - this is in the singular. Is there anyone other than Christ who was good VERY MOMENT OF HIS HUMAN EXISTENCE? See, you're thinking "doing SOME good a little here and a little there" - demonstrating you do not understand Romans 2. Romans 2 points to PERFECTION in fulfilling God's Law to be justified before God.
@@soulosxpiotov7280Wow no need to cope so hard. breathe… Now where does jt say that doing good deeds is the same as completely fulfilling the hebrew law? Youre inserting that entire assumption. Let’s walk through the text…. Therefore you are without excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others, for in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is in accordance with truth. 3 Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not realize that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but injustice, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be affliction and distress for everyone who does evil, both the Jew first and the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, both the Jew first and the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality. Nothing here about keeping or fulfilling the law. Good deeds are rewarded but that’s not the same thing as works of the law. The works of the law get you nothing…. But good works done in love help sanctify us! They are an essential part of the process of salvation. Now lets see what paul says about works of the law…. All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged in accordance with the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When gentiles, who do not possess the law, by nature do[a] what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, as their own conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God through Christ Jesus judges the secret thoughts of all. Here we see doing the law gains you nothing but justification. As soon as you fail to do the law you are found guilty by it. Whether jew, greek, or unbeliever…. So you are right when it comes to works of the law and wrong when it comes to good works. They are not the same thing….. paul is really clear here. Lets go back to the first section to address your accusation that i believe “ a little good works here gets me closer to heaven and a little sin here or there gets me closer to hell” thats not what i believe nor what catholics teach just another poor assumption based on you guy’s not being able to recognize the difference in categories of works. Its funny… protestants will interpret the bible in hundreds of different ways but when it comes to romans 2…. None of you seem to recognize this clear teaching. In fact if you take your interpretation to its logical conclusion, youre actually making a way for people who have no faith in christ and only in the law to be saved. Otherwise paul is just presenting a false possibility in extremely high detail. I’ll elaborate. So if a person can attain eternal salvation apart from faith in christ and only through works of the law, then paul is refuting himself when he saves only through christ can we be saved. Otherwise he’a giving you two options. Walk perfectly in the jewish law as christ did or put your faith in him. This is a false option since nobody can fulfill the law as christ did since it’s already been fulfilled. Why would paul do this? Why the elaborate detail about who they are saved or condemned if they choose this route? Lets say i take paul up on his challenge here…. I forsake ALL selfishness and live only to fullfill the law as best i can. Then what would he say? Probably… “For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.” Or “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.” You see…. There is no way to earn salvation through works of the law we agree on that! What we disagree on is if good deeds or good works are the same thing as works of the law. If it were romans 2 would look very different in that first section. Imagine it said “to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, there will be wrath and fury” you see now it matches protestant theology. You have to totally reverse the passage to make it work. How is this not a red flag? Last point…. Matthew 25. Our lord says “Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Now imagine him adding a work of the law in there like “i gave you a son and you didnt circumcise him, i gave you food and you didnt wash yourself according to torah” it just feels super alien. However imagine it saying “ i was lost and you didnt look for me, or i was in anguish and you didnt comfort me” that sounds like it would fit perfectly. Works of the law, works of the spirit, works of the flesh, works of darkness, and good works done in love are all different categories of works.
@@timboslice980 How do you seek immortality? By seeking Christ and repenting and trusting in Him alone. Seeking immortality isn't done by charitable works. Keep reading Romans. The only ones who actually seek are those who have been regenerated already. As Paul literally says in the next chapter, nobody seeks for God, and in Romans 8, that those in the flesh cannot even obey God. Literally unable to.
As a Catholic, I am genuinely curious how people who reject Catholicism go about choosing which protestant denomination to follow. There are some key differences between them and I would guess most don’t investigate them too much, but I could be wrong.
James White is petrified to answer questions with a simple Yes or No. You either agree, James, or you don't. It's pretty simple. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James sounds like a modem politician. Nuff said.
Notice how Dr. White refuses to talk about love and charity within faith. He says alot of things about faith, righteousness, imputation but zero mention of the place of love and charity. Has James not read the gospel of John? There seems to be some obsession with faith to the point that love seems divorced from faith.
White has a huge heart for catholics, Mormons, and JWs. But faith is extremely important, it's vital. The topic wasn't on love. Faith is the key and faith alone. So yeah, of course he is zealous. Not sure why that's so surprising. Just because Akin sounds charitable doesn't mean he is correct. Satan comes as an angel of light too. Not saying Akin is satin, just making the point that evil can also show up kind and loving, so it's not really relevant.
@KnightFel if you have faith without love you have a dead faith. So, yes faith is important but it needs to incorporate love to be saving. As is pointed out by Jimmy read 1 Corinthians 13:2.
@KnightFel White doesn't like the concept of love bc love affirms human freedom. Calvinist hates the concept of human freedom. Also love encompasses all mankind, it does not discriminate. But for White only some get loved while others are damned. There is your reason why White avoids the topic of love at all cost and even gets uncomfy when paired with faith. Paul condemns White when he said if you have faith but no love then you are nothing, also when he said love is greater than faith. White would never ever address those scriptural passages.
@@MrJayb76 No need, because love isn't what saves. Faith does. Love is a result of salvation. Also, God is not obligated to save a people in constant rebellion to Him. He is gracious and merciful because He does not HAVE to give mercy and grace to anyone. Otherwise, it ceases to be mercy and grace. The unbeliever (which is in the flesh), cannot please God, he is UNABLE to, as Paul says in Romans 8. God is the one who saves out of His own volition. Calvinism doesn't hate freewill. It hates elevating man to a place man does not belong. Man has free will, he just constantly freely chooses evil.
James White being extremely unecumenical during this. Not trying to find common ground, not trying to unite Christians, not trying to see Jimmy's arguments in good faith. Shows very poor character.
Going into these debates without the goal of uniting Christians, shows his disordered view of Christianity and the world. Very sad to see. I think it's safe to say he gains joy off fracturing Christianity, very obviously a protestant. It's in the nature of one who protests.
This simple showcasing of the spirit shows it all. You see a spiritual psychological egoism from James White . I’m no one to judge but I just don’t see the Joy,Grace and love from white I just don’t hear my Beloved Jesus Christ when he speaks. There’s this frustration in his demeanor as his his belief foundation is crumbling before him.
Every debate James does, the axe he so clearly has to grind with the Catholic Church goes on full display. He stands and sits there and is clearly in complete disgust, annoyance, uncomfortable. Is smirking and looking around like he’s too good for this, laughs at peoples questions. The disingenuous laughter that he does. If I were still Protestant, there’s nothing coming from this brother that would convince me of his position, not to mention he’s a Calvinist 😵💫. May God bless him and good luck to him.
James you are right. The. Blessed man is just like paul who in acts was baptized calling on his name for the washing away of his sin. Peter says baptism now saves you! So yes the free gift of initial justification is a free gift. But as is said by Paul and Jesus you must persevere in the faith to be saved. Faith without works is dead (james) . You are his Workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works,that you should walk in them. Ephesians.10
There's no such thing as "initial justification." Also, keep reading the verse on baptism. You all always stop there. Proof texting is useless. Your quotation on Ephesians 2: 8-10 is perfeclty consistent with reformed theology. You are saved by faith alone, not faith + works. Works comes after faith, that's why you're saved for, that's what you're created for, and not works to prove to God anything, but for your neighbor and to glorify God. Rome says no, you need works along with faith to increase in justification, which is utterly false. You proved Dr. White's point.
Baptism saves in the same way the Ark saved Noah. It does not impart salvation, only the death of Christ does that. And it does that by grace through faith. Regeneration doesn’t even save you, even if baptism did regenerate you, which it does not. The only thing that gives salvation is God’s grace, and we can only receive that grace through faith.
@@fuelmotive8716baptism is only salvific because of God obviously, but for you to say baptism does not regenerate would mean you stand against the entire history of the church beginning to end. I assure you, the church was not entirely in error prior to your coming. You are not the saviour of the church.
@@Jrce11 I did not say that the entirety of Christian’s are in error “prior to my coming” nor did I say I was “the savior of the church.” There is one savior of the Church and that is Christ Jesus, and saying that I made any statements even close to that is ridiculously stupid.
@@fuelmotive8716 you are here to correct the entire church on the issue of baptism despite what nearly every single early church writer had to say on the matter, correct?
James W. NEVER answered the question: “WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE DOCTRINE SOLA SCRIPTURA?” He deflected to different topics because… he knows it’s not written. The balanced approach is Both Oral Tradition through the apostles AND scripture.
At the 25:35 minute mark, when Jimmy is giving the points on "anathema", this is very disingenuous. The 2nd Council of Nicea defined what anathema is, quote, "Now anathema is nothing less than complete separation from God." In other words, hell. In addition, he said that those only apply to the Catholic Church. In what possible reality would that ever make sense? The Catholic Church already doesn't consider anyone other than Catholics true Christians and not being part of the Catholic Church, even if they're a Martyr, will profit them nothing if they aren't part of the visible Catholic Church (read the Council of Florence for more on this).
@catholictruth102 The Reformed view is not the same thing as Once Saved Always Saved. The Westminster Confession has an entire chapter on the perseverance of the saints.
Akin was sparky throughout the debate. Secondly, he never addressed the actual Reformed and Scriptural position. He kept using strawman fallacies. Furthermore, the Bible does teach Sola scriptura many times over. Westminster Confession 1:6. By good and necessary consequence. Additionally, the phrase "word of God" is l9gically deduced from Scripture just as the word Trinity does not occur in the text but is perfectly a biblical term.
Paul was right, a Jewish christian can't think he has the golden ticket and God owes him something. God can't be wrestled into submission based on someone's heritage.
James White would rather die than become Catholic. his “faith alone” walk with God is merely a facade that is meant to cover up (barely) his anti-Catholicism. if James White couldn’t talk about the Catholic Church, his “faith” would die.
Baptism is required for salvation, its biblical, Jesus said it. It is also in the old testament. Its absurd some reformed protestants will object to it.
Why does James care so much about mentioning all of his debates over and over? Is he really that prideful to think that he is some kind of standard now since he’s done so many debates? Give me a break.
That's a bit of an assumption. I believe he like to point out how arguments by Catholics have changed over time. I also think that getting older he just likes to reminisce.
@@holinessofthebride1935, I don’t believe that Catholic argument have changed over time and debating isn’t a time to reminisce. Unfortunately, James White has been refuted on a number of points, and he still keeps repeating the same arguments. Jimmy simply added more nuance to the Catholic position that James White couldn’t handle. I’m not even Catholic by the way, so I have no bias in this.
@@KingandQueens12 Some Catholics arguments have indeed changed, just as the Church has changed. It's fair to point out, although it's of lesser value if it's just the explanations of apologists.
I guess I would have to ask if we don’t receive righteousness identical to Christ how can we even make it to heaven. Seems to me that the whole plan of Christ was to give the righteousness earned at the cross to all so we can be saved. If we had to rely on our own righteousness we would have never made it. I don’t understand Jimmy’s argument at all. We don’t get the title of Christ, so our names won’t be above all, but we receive the righteousness of Christ, because his righteousness is perfect.
Jimmy's point is that we receive the same kind of riteousness, but not the same quantity. Christ has infinite riteousness, making His name above all, whereas we have much less, but can grow in that riteousness throughout the Chrisitian life. But never to the level of Christ.
Let's suppose that this is what Jimmy did. If in fact you agree with a possible Catholic position on this central issue of the Reformation, then there is literally no reason to remain Protestant. Everything else stands or falls on this issue.
@@benabaxter The priesthood, purgatory, Marian dogmas, the Papacy, indulgences, praying to the saints, working to increase your "initial" justification are all excellent reasons why not to cross the Tiber.
I think Jimmy mentioned this was a different kind of debate where each person brought forward their own positive positions, rather than debate a disagreement
@@KnightFelwhy not dive into those topics instead of dismissing them with surface level information or misinformation? I'm a former rabid anti-Catholic and I was fed a load of lies. I debate online and I have yet to come across a protestant who actually disagrees with Catholicism. They always disagree based upon misconceptions and misinformation that are fed to them by people like James White and John MacArthur.
I've been recommended by a Protestant pastor to listen to James White. Well here I am and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. He seems uncharitable, arrogant, and deliberately obtuse through many portions of his debates.
Regardless of the intellectual content of the debate, Jimmy more broadly embodies the type of person I'd want to associate with.
Same here.
Glad to hear it, brother. Much love from the Catholic Church.
Associating with people who come across as charitable doesn't save and doesn't mean his message is correct.
@@KnightFel CoPe James lost
@@KnightFelsimply saying "I believe" doesn't save you either 👍
Jimmy Akin also crushed and i mean DEMOLISHED bart Erhman in their debate on gospel reliability. He also played with “other paul” like a cat with string in their sola scriptura debate. The man is incredible and was the very first catholic i ever spoke to. I called into catholic answers to find out what they believed paul was talking about when it came to “taking the eucharist unworthily” i was still Protestant then and going to a methodist church. After the oyster crackers and grape juice at service one day i went home and was flipping through scripture and landed on that passage. I thought “was i worthy to take communion today? Was everyone in church today worthy as well?” Then i thought “how would you know?” I had already been investigating Catholicism for a time but still attended a methodist church. I decided to call in to catholic answers for the first time. Jimmy had me going back to the scripture and examining everything about the eucharist. Then what the fathers said etc… i was confirmed a year later.
Now, I am sure you now know it hurts not to be able to take communion. You can do one of two things:
1) cross your arms, and if your line is the priest. It's a blessing. Or.
2) get on your knees and say the famous prayer for those who cannot take communion by St. Alphonsus Ligouri
But you do NOT take the Eucharist unworthily... it is Sacrilege.
You can still go to Eucharistic Adoration also. If you have sins on your plate and again you can pray that prayer for when you can't take communion.
Thanks for telling us the story of what communion is like in other churches. We only hear of what communion is like at Separated Brethern churches, temples or halls. Sometimes it is monthly we hear??
Welcome Home!
@@richardcastro1276 Yep. Im so glad to have learned! I was raised methodist and in our church communion was only 4 times a year on each quater of the year. Im not sure but i think they do it for the Wesleyan quadrilateral. Methodism is not a sola scriptura Protestant denomination. They hold to a quadrilateral ( scripture, personal experice, tradition, and logic) many methodists have never even heard of the quad. Most think theyre sola scripturists…. These days they say well scripture is the only ultimate authority but i cannot be understood without reason, personal experience, and tradition.
Your bias is showing.
Welcome home Brother
James White knocked it and jimmy out of the park
Jimmy I couldn’t be more proud of you and your amazing presentation/ debate. Thank you for defending our ONE and ONLY TRUE CHURCH ⛪️ our Christian Catholic. May God bless you and our holy mother Mary pray for you to her son.
Hilarious , he was so arrogant . Doesn’t listen , and is fundamentally wrong
Interesting! The Orthodox churches claim their church is the only one and only true church. Perhaps this claim is not helpful in promoting interdenominational dialogue.
man poor marry busy praying for thousands of people every second does this make her omnipotent 😂
I like that the editor edited out the dead air whenever someone goes up to the podium. It made the video have better pacing.
I read this as "It made the video have better 'pricing'." - Which is also true
James White really seems like the type of Christian that turns people off of Christianity. He comes across as unpleasant, uncharitable, and evasive.
I have questions about some of the doctrines of Catholicism. But, there is no doubt that Jimmy Akin is a far better ambassador for faith in Christ.
It's not even close.
How can you be an ambassador for faith in Christ when he believes in the absurdity of the Marian dogmas?
@@KnightFelthe Marian dogmas are beautiful. You should look into them. As Christ said to St John at the cross, behold your mother.
@@KnightFel the absurdity is that you don’t believe in them.
@@KnightFelhe said ambassador, not correct doctrine. He’s simply saying he does a better job evangelizing.
@@christalone253 Jesus said this to the disciples whom Jesus loved. Do you want to be a disciple whom Jesus loves?
I don’t understand Mr. White’s strategy during these debates. His position during these debates is “I don’t like the Catholic Church for the following 8 reasons” even though they are talking about one subject.
Fact. That's been his style for years and years now, he's deranged. So full of hate for Catholics and Mother Church.
He does it every time
And don’t worry, he’ll tell you about all his other debates he’s done too! Let’s just toss out 20 different topics that I believe are wrong about the Catholic Church, and then I’ll sit here and roll my eyes, smirk and laugh at questions, and act completely annoyed the whole time!
Yet you keep watching
@@LogousTo listen to Mr. Jimmy Akin or Trent Horn, yes.
Praised be Jesus Christ for the gift of Jimmy Akin, a humble and learned gentleman. Pax
Yet not telling us at all how to have peace with God. He didn't even present the Roman Catholic position. Just parts of it that are generally in agreement.
@@KnightFel Christ Founded a United Church that canonized its Scriptures. The Devil inspired protestants to twist those scriptures to justify a thousand sub-cults that agree on very little other than their false representation of Christ's actual Church. Seems pretty straightforward to anyone not indoctrinated by these man-made cults' leaders.
Praised be Jesus Christ indeed for blessing us with the wisdom and humility of Jimmy Akin. His insights shine as a beacon of knowledge and joy :)
@@KnightFelhe very clearly answered. You’ve got beams in your eyes brother.
@@Jrce11 Not at all brother. He spoke about maybe 10% of Roman Catholic Salvation. It's WAY more complicated and WAY off from the biblical gospel than he's saying. Be real. The Roman Catholic gospel is depressing and terrifying. Knowing your heart and your mind, the mortal sins of in thought one commits often, the breaking of the greatest commandment everyday, yeah, it's depressing. There is no peace in the Roman gospel.
Remember, James White is the best Protestantism has to offer. Catholicism simply is too strong an argument to defeat. I was in the Calvinist cult and upon experiencing God, He led me to His church - the Catholic Church that has remained in succession from the first century till today. Whereas the Protestants came 16 centuries later and drastically changed the faith and made a new religion - not only removing 7 books of the Bible that they disagreed with, but changing the faith itself. It has divided Christendom and divided it into oblivion. God tells Satan is the divider. God tells us He is not the author of confusion.
I am just now coming out of the reformed world, after 20 years. Catholicism just makes more sense. When I finally stopped to think about why there are so many divisions and endless splitting I realized sola scriptura and private judgement were the main reasons, but behind them was the rejection of the authority of the church. That’s the core of Protestantism.
The result is individualism, subjectivism, and relativism.
I haven’t watched the debate yet, but Akin clearly won the last one.
Same here brother! I listened to the dividing line and radio free geneva for a decade. I was confirmed catholic last year!
Who said White is the best protestantism has to offer? 😂
@jackcrow1204 he's a prominent apologist in baptist churches and reformed/calvinist camps. But there's a lot more to protestant views too
I'm a devout cradle Catholic and I can tell you White is *not* the best Protestantism has to offer.
I know we aren't suppose to judge as Christians, but as a Protestant I have to say that Jimmy Akin won this debate by using both scripture and history to back up his claims. It looks like reading through the comment section that seems to be the consensus. I am definitely more intrigued by Catholicism now more than before... I think there's certain so called "truths" that have been ingrained in all of us, but until you're willing to listen to the 'horses mouth' from the other side (not just accept what others have told you to confirm our preconceived notions), then you're not really open to the fullness of truth. (This can be applied to all traditions of faith).... My two cents.
Keep digging, my brother! The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, but you must be open to receive it.
Early Christianity was Catholic.
You are well on your way. God Bless you on your journey.
@@fantasia55no, the early church was catholic not Catholic.
@robertdelisle7309 Early Christians celebrated Mass, venerated saints, obeyed apostolic succession bishops and acknowledged the papacy - meaning they were capital C Catholics.
The questions from Akin forced White to basically admit his hatred for Catholics outweighs his love for the truth.
Agree. To me, White comes across as a religious bigot.
Tends to happen when your sister and brother in law convert to Catholicism despite his attempts to dissuade them.
And then your sister goes on T.V to say he is really good at defeating strawman 😂.
(Tbh I would feel the same in his place! No disrespect to the man)
True. His hatred makes him blind, unable to see the truth.
Pride is a great enemy of truth.
This right here! ☝🏼
Great Job Jimmy Akin👍 As always clarity thru charity 🙏🇻🇦✝️
I'm Orthodox Christian so I don't agree with Catholicism but we agree on 99.9% of things. Jimmy Akin is a gift from God. I only like James White when he is debating atheists. Jimmy Akin demolished him here. I hope Mr. White gets over his hatred for Catholics.
I don't think he hates us. He's extremely passionate
@@andycopeland7051 Catholics, Orthodox, and many if not most Protestants accept that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Some Protestants do not, 2 billion or so Christians are all wrong and going to hell. This is that guy.
Nah. White just has a grumpy demeanor
Even when talking to his friends
I changed my life because Jesus Eucharist 🙏
I can always tell when someone is a liar or when someone is honest. Take this thread...Basileusnilus claiming Jimmy "demolished" him shows me he is a liar. Of course you can think one guy made better points and won the debate, but no one was demolished here. Both guys stated their case clearly and articulately. It's always easy to spot truth tellers from the liars...you just have to look for it.
Well done to First Baptist Livingston for facilitating these debates. Bravo. An excellent production.
White proposed the debate topic of The meaning of peace with God, then spends his entire response attacking ancillary teachings of the Catholic Church. Why did he propose a topic if he didn’t intend to debate it?
Jimmy Akin agreed with the affirmative position, i.e. his opponents from the get go, line by line. There is no where for the debate to go except for what the RCC teaches on what those points actually mean from dogmatic, doctrinal, and practical levels, which is where the debate did end up going.
That's because those ancillary teachings of the catholic church are 100% required and imposed on you and do not give you peace with God.
James White is obviously filled with a demonic presence and the fruits of that serpent flow forth from him anytime he speaks. It is horrifying to behold.
Because he wants to point out that it is only through the finished work of Christ according to what the Scriptures teach that we have peace with God and not these other dogmas that reduces Christ work as insufficient
That is because White can't defend his position.
Mr. White helped lead me to the Catholic Church in 2004.
While you groom your comment, don't forget that many Muslims also affirmed how The Bible led them to Islam. If Dr. White led you to Catholicism, I am absolutely certain that you are not saved. Remember what Dr. Bart Ehrman attributed his then atheism and now agnosticism to: The Bible. Repent.
Oooooffff lol. Happy to have you with us!!!
Jimmy Swaggart the televangelist helped me come back to the Catholic Church in the early 90s.
That's a lie.
@@Merih98614 Actually no, when I became a Christian, I read the materials on Alpha and Omega Ministries website extensively. I found his coverage of Catholic issues to be biased and unconvincing. Of course, this did not singlehandedly make me a Catholic, but Reform doctrines on Sola scriptura, the atonement, the sacraments and church history as represented by Alpha and Omega helped me to the Church. I was received into Church in 2009.
Sadly, my experience with Protestants is they seem to be of the entitlement of being the accuser of my Catholic faith. No matter of my deep and profound love of the Trinity, scripture, faith, hope and love, I’m not living a life of faith at least not in their eyes. May God have mercy on them.
That is how everybody feels when their faith is attacked; Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox.
Just remember that these arguments are about religiously binding authority and not your personal faith in God, regardless of how you practice it.
These debates are really a book selling carnival that also brings in revenue for the hosting church. Remember that church numbers are down across the country, which means church revenues are down.
It reminds me of wrestle mania for the church.
@@djpodestawhat a shallow view of evangelism.
@@idankpoaugustine1983 The debate road show that speaks to two opposing teams? Check out the comments. I don’t see anybody turning to Christ… 😄 Evangelising whom? Are you sure this isn’t a sporting event?
I’ll stick to solid teaching from either faith thank you. At least you can digest and look up what is being taught at your leisure and see if it makes sense.
Salvation is not by works and any vague definition of belief is sufficient unto salvation, unless you are Catholic, then you are surely damned. That's like the gospel, dude. It's literally what scripture says. I mean, why do you choose to be a member of the whore of Babylon? Join pastor Jim's church with me and become truly born again.
May God have mercy on you.
The fact that James White's channel of Aplha and Omega Ministries has comments turned off on all his videos, while Jimmy Akin's RUclips channel allows comments, is all you need to know.
One of these individuals isn't afraid to defend the truth. The other is afraid to face the truth. I'll let those who read this decide for themselves who those individuals are.
Actually that says nothing more than that one is 10x more popular and thus attracts more bigots. I would also want to keep _my_ channel free from insults in the comment sections.
@@ora_et_labora1095 The very fact that James White doesn't allow commentary on his videos is a telltale sign he is afraid to face the truth. He is all about finding "his truth", but he is vehemently opposed to the truth.
Whether or not some people choose to use the comments section for insults is irrelevant to this fact.
"Afraid to face the truth." Does more than 180 public moderated debates. Catholics multiple times, Muslims in their own mosques, shares the gospel outside mormon temples. Yep, he's downright terrified. @CantStopTheMattWalsh
@@SoliDeoGloria237 The same could be said of Jimmy Akin. He has done plenty of moderated debates. Shared the gospel. And debated against those outside of the Christian faith.
The question then becomes, why is he willing to allow dialogue on his channel, but James White isn't?
@@CantStopTheMattWalsh The real question is, why do you engage in an Ad Hominem attack against Dr. White rather than engage with his views? Proverbs 14:7
White has an annoying tactic of throwing out Greek words as if just saying the word is supposed to reveal some clarification. In reality, the tactic is supposed to convince the audience of White’s authority and therefore enhance his credibility. It is a bad debate tactic. Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument.
"Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument"
Original Languages matter in this debate and Jimmy Akin cannot exegete.
Also Roman Catholicism is false:
ruclips.net/video/UCbBUQztE6M/видео.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
@@samuelaguilar9668Make a list of timestamps of the number of times that James White uses a Greek word. Identify which of those times describes the context meaningfully as part of an argument relevant to the proposition. It should be easy enough to figure out whether the top level comment is correct or whether it is just speaking out of its own impressions.
you are correct, as with all protestants, they claim authority over the bible
@@samuelaguilar9668have you ever tried thinking for yourself? It's pretty powerful stuff. At least if you're going to submit your will in obedience, don't do it on behalf of an ego like James White's.
@@samuelaguilar9668 CoPe, White got humiliated and lied during the debate.
Dr John Bergsma on pints with acquinas gives an excellent presentation on the biblical foundations of the priesthood. Dr Bergsma is an ex Protestant minister - and really hits a home run on the showing how the Bible teaches this
An integral interview in my conversion to be sure.
It was an embarrassment to scholarship.
Question to James White: "Do you agree that 2+2=4?"
James White: "Yes"
Question to James White: "Do you agree that to arrive at the number 4 from adding two numbers together, that a *calculation* must have taken place?"
James White: "No"
exactly, he hates Catholics so much that he will refuse to agree with the pope on anything haha
May I ask what the point is of you quoting this? Thank you.
@@andrewmiles2370 denial of purgatory is irrational
😂He dodging
Haha, that’s actually pretty accurate.
May God bless you with wisdom, understanding and knowledge Akin..
It is interesting to note that the first reading for Sunday is in Acts 9, the Church is at peace when we walk with God. And we walk with God when we do what Jesus instructs us to do.
All I came away with from Mr White is "I hate the Church". What I got from Mr Akin was "Repent, Believe, be baptised; and when I sin later, Repent, Believe and get forgiven." Sounds like walking with God and being at peace with God to me.
I remember before I came to the Catholic faith I learned I was Protestant and figured out the definition of Protestant was to Protest, and I was like Protest? What am I protesting, and after asking that question I became Catholic a year later.
Shallow reasoning and a sound bite caused you to become roman catholic?
You might want to spend time reading what Scripture says and see how much of it contradicts the Dogmas and doctrines of Roman Catholicism - they are all over the place.
Sadly Mr. Akin was all over the place and trying to put words in James White's mouth instead of accurately representing Roman Catholicism.
Study the Protestant Revolution. Christian men had the skin peeled from their living bodies because the simply wanted to read the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church is pure evil
Probably protesting indulgences, exaltation of Mary, Catholic Priest Pedophiles, burning Christians for translating the bible into English, etc. Stuff like that I would imagine...
@@kcwmjb I find that Protestants often have a horrible understanding of Catholicism, whereas we also read scripture and in full not cherry picking and with very well thought out correlations and details and many years of knowledge and judgement and reason behind it. There is a big difference within different Catholic churches and peoples own personal faith is their own. The major problem is Catholic, Orthodox, and many Protestants feel other Christians are brothers and sisters, and some Protestants do not. That is this guy.
James White is not a dummy, but was pivotal in my decision to become Catholic. Tonight he continues with that tradition.
Welcome home in advance ❤
How
I became Catholic. And after 10 years of practicing this faith and getting no closer to God....Guys like White are making more and more sense.
James White will have to answer for that. Cause he kept you away from the Truth. The church was created to guard the truth and the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ. So if you were considering coming to the Truth and James White made you walk away then he’s in big trouble. 😞
@@private2371 then you weren’t looking hard enough.
God BLESS This Church for hosting this debate!
I happen to live relatively close to Livingston, Louisiana
God bless you Jimmy.
James is very confusing. He contradicts himself. Jimmy is soo logical and intellectual in teaching of Christ and His church
Which contradiction were you referring to?
@@friendlyolbumexactly. So many accusations against him yet they’re too lazy to specify
As a protestant, Jimmy did exceedingly better than I could have expected. Also, love the hat and beard!!
Jimmy Akin is the man. He's our hidden gem here in the Catholic Church. A cyborg sent from the future to save the Church.
I love the collegial spirit of this debate. Such attitudes do more to unite The Church than divide it. - From a humble reformed Baptist in search of Truth. ❤️🙏
Good on you for your honesty and humility. Thanks for comment. Us Catholics can really learn from you Protestants.
@@laymanchristian1138 Likewise. From what I see, there’s a lot more Catholics exercising humility than Protestants at the moment. I’m saying this as a Protestant.
His hat and beard is like a real-life Yosemite Sam.
I'm not a fan of JW, but I started to feel sorry for him during the cross-examination when Jimmy Akin was questioning him. Jimmy did an excellent job, and I also liked his rebuttals. JW should consider retiring from debating after this one.
I hope White continues. His debates result in the conversion of many to the Catholic Faith
@@DD-bx8rb If he repents and comes to the Catholic Church, it's better for his soul. He can also bring others to the Catholic faith. I've seen Protestant converts bring many to the Catholic Church.
@@gto2111 Yes, good point
@@DD-bx8rb The opposite seems true. He does help people see past the corruption of Rome and come back to Christ and the gospel.
@@vigilantezack "The corruption of Rome" is simply an old Protestant myth aimed to damage the authority of Christ's holy Church. It is a combination of exaggeration of history, coupled with an attack on true doctrines. The Protestant threw out the most important and deepest aspects of the Faith. Pax
James White: "It's obvious if you read the Bible that my minority, niche theology that excludes all apostolic and most protestant churches, is the only possible interpretation."
So true
Exactly! Only the opposite of what you said. 😂 It’s straight Bible, just repent and believe, enough disobedience.
@@westb1028
There are contradictory ideas expressed in the NT.
Romans 2:5-11. We are judged by deeds. That's the same Paul that y'all quote about saved by faith alone.
@sliglusamelius8578 these aren't contractions. It says WE are to judge by actions, not God
@@SneakyEmu
False. Romans 2:5-11 says that we will be judged by God by our works! It's right there! Read it.
Where the Bishop appears there let the people be. Just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. St. Ignatius of Antioch. 107 AD 🍷🍞🔑⛪️📿✝️📖📝🕊🫶🏻🔥😇
The church according to Scripture is 'a pillar and butress of the truth'. The Catholic Church advocated for in this debate was one of appeasement.
@@joeh8130so which man from the 1500s do you worship
@@joeh8130 CoPe
@@joeh8130 remember, Ignatius of Antioch was the disciple of Apostle John. So I prefer his interpretation than your modern Protestant interpreation.
And where is Christ?
30:05 Yes these quotes are verbatim although quoted from different sections of the Cathecism:
571 Comes from Nicenean Creed, which we repeat at almost all masses. All days of the year, throughout the world in different languages.
571 is under the section of the Creed which is what we believe stated in the Creed about the Son. Oh and there is a reference *Hebrews 9:26*
26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
1545 appears in the Sacraments-Service (mass) section under heading " The one prieshood of Christ"
Ref, Hebrews 8:4 and St. Thomas Aquinas.
2771 This is related to how we pray, this is in the Our Father prayer. But to understand it all you'd have to read entries 2767 to 2776... with several bible verses referenced. This whole section is beautiful. I pray the Our Father several times daily. Good to know the Church's details on this prayer.
I recommend to all who speak Spanish to watch the best apologist by far, his name is Padre Luis Toro. I have not seen anybody else debate as clearly as him using the bible. He is phenomenal, truly gifted and has helped many protestants return to the Catholic faith. I don't know if any of his debates have been translated to English, maybe someone out there can do this if allowed!
Thank you
I agree. I have learned so much from Fr Luis Toro.
As a Protestant for over 60 years, I have now moved even closer to converting to Catholicism after listening to this debate. Mr White's obvious distain for Catholics and his arrogance (sir, you need not constantly make reference to how many times you have debated Catholics) only distracts from his arguments. If you can not present your position w/out constantly attacking your opponents, your argument appears weak. During this debate, it was weak. Thank you Mr Akin!
Well said!
Why does akin ignore the points about Mary? It just seems anything that might be considered dogma or exegetical heresy is just ignored by the Catholic Church.
He said he would be happy to debate this and any other topic at a future debate where it is the topic at hand.
If you're reading this, watch Dr. White's debate against Trent Horn on eternal security. That debate, along with the Pat Madrid vs James White debate on Sola Scriptura is what opened my eyes to the truth of Catholicism, having watched both as a Baptist.
LOL! I bet White quoted those debates in this debate here with Jimmy. As though, he defeated all of them.
1:00:18 can a Protestant explain to me what James White was trying to illustrate during his cross-examination period?
I can understand what Jimmy was trying to illustrate, but not James.
James was winging it and flew off into the weeds.
So I think White’s trying to illustrate a contradiction between the claims that at the moment of justification all sins are forgiven by way of our sin being imputed to Christ on Calvary and His righteousness being imputed to us and Akin’s position that one can not only choose to sin and thus become “less righteous” but also a person can commit a sin serious enough that he rejects the righteousness of God in him (murder, apostasy, etc.).
As a Calvinist/Reformed Christian, White believes that one cannot reject the righteousness of God (irresistible grace) at justification and that one who is saved cannot do anything that would change that. God saves. Period. There’s no cooperation from us that is salvific. You cant lose your salvation because it was never your choice to begin with.
In the second half, White is trying (not very well) to get Akin to admit that he believes all people can be saved, that’s Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary was sufficient for all and that we should truly hope that all may be saved. Akin readily grants this-White doesn’t try to follow up though with typical Calvinist responses. White, again being a Calvinist, believes that Christ’s sacrifice is not sufficient for all, but that Christ only died for the Elect, those whom God predestined to be saved.
White is trying to get Akin to say he’s a universalist, or at least a mitigated universalism where we should hope for the salvation of all. Calvinists hold that this contradicts the Gospel where Jesus routinely and often speaks of the reality of hell and of those in it. The thing is, Akin will readily admit to that.
That final question to catholics thing just fell so flat. It's the same old trope that we catholics are nail-biting about our salvation. I don't know anyone like that. In fact, it's such a wonderful comfort knowing confession is there for us. What a gift the sacraments are!
❤ amen
It was certainly true for me.
Completely untrue, Catholics can’t answer the question of whether they’ll go to heaven at death. That’s the saddest thing I’ve ever heard as a Protestant, jimmy atkins wasn’t able to explain having peace with God. Peace every Sunday is not full peace, Monday to Friday sinning.
@@joshgage7337 We will go to heaven if we die in friendship with God, in obedience. As commanded. How does one know they are in friendship with God? First listen to the Church and read Scripture. Be baptized to receive justification. And then obey the commandments to not fall away. If you succumb to weakness and commit mortal sin, receive confession. Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn have both sufficiently and irrefutably answered this. I encourage you to study and pray. God bless.
I pray all who attended becomes catholic because of this. Jimmy is great at planting seeds and I hope everyone does their research and see the truth of the one true apostolic faith. Come on everyone. Jesus prayed for us all to be one church. Stop being prideful or ignorant about the faith. It’s time we all come back to Mass and worship Jesus our Lord the way we were meant to. God bless.
Amen!❤
@ChristIsLord7, didn't you pay any attention to this debate? Especially, the opening statement? Hebrews clearly states that Christ offered Himself once for all time at the cross. It doesn't have to be repeated ever again. There's no need for a Re-Presentation which is actually a Re-sacrifice every Sunday. Yet the Roman Church blasphemes by doing this.
I pray that lost papists will be converted and regenerated by the Holy Spirit as they hear the Scriptures expounded. All papists are lost, including Akin.
@@Michael-yl9rlMay God grant papists the new birth and conversion to the Christ of Scripture.
Salvation is only a possibility????
Both are brilliant, thanks.
White is a brilliant well schooled Protestant but he is not a charitable statesman. Unfortunately, he comes across as a bit angry, rude, and a bit arrogant.
It is because he is full of the demonic. The oppression of the Evil One is palpable anytime he speaks.
he acts as though it is a threat to his carefully cultivated, narrow worldview. If he were to give it even the slightest "benefit of the doubt" he acts like it might unravel his whole carefully crafted narrative.
Tillich (a Protestant (Lutheran) scholar) taught that we are to "embody the truth we advocate." If attitude were the base line of our truth, then White may want to rethink the impression his version of truth leaves on his hearers. While Akin can come across as a bit condescending at times, he certainly comes closer to charity in his presentation. BTW: The host did a good job of getting out of the way, maintaining dignity of the participants and managing the event as it unfolded.
So he comes off as a Protestant
@@Philip__325 hahaha
One of the problems i find with protestantism is that they question and reject apostolic siccession, papacy and magisterium… and yet, they want all of those to reside in one person, in the person of the protestant pastor and each protestant followers.
Even just from a practical level of unity, it makes no sense.
“One of the problems I find with Protestantism is this thing that no Protestant argues for” the scripture alone is the infallible authority. The church is also an authority in the life of a Protestant, but isn’t infallible. Protestant pastors aren’t popes. We follow the apostles by following their teachings as communicated through scripture.
@@weselo8305Catholics are not that different, we also interpret the bible individually, however, when it comes to critical things such as baptism, how do we decide who interprets it correctly?
@@zeegovna5109 Ultimately on tough questions, you read the Word, listen to trusted people who have looked into it on different sides, and decide which position better aligns with the Word. There is no reason to think we have a single infallible interpreter (other than Scripture itself interpreting itself)
@@weselo8305but scripture itself doesn’t interpret itself, thats why i brought up baptism. I trust my protestant friend on many things, but he doesnt believe the same as me on baptism
Watching James White try to support his positions is like watching someone try to build a house of cards on a paddle board in the ocean.
As a former Protestant, I find listening to him to be a faithful building because it makes me so thankful for the solid ground I now stand on in my Catholic faith and union with Christ together with his Church.
Well done Dr James
Holy cow, White just started his concluding statement, and he's _yet again_ reminiscing about debates he did back 30+ years ago. Guy just can't move _on._ Somebody give him an intervention ...or else a retrospective on VH1!
Did he even win those debates or something? He keeps bringing them up like he won a superbowl or something
Why wouldn't he? Arguments for truth do not change. Not now, not 2000 years ago. He's done so many debates that he's more than free to use the past to prove points. There is no need for him to change, no need for new arguments, especially when it comes to the gospel. Cry more.
@@KnightFel Insane cope
@@KnightFelcope lolz
Well, maybe he brings them up because in those times he actually had the opportunity to debate some honest, orthodox Roman Catholics. And because in his opening presentation Akin basically said that the Reformation was right, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, which is the main point the reformers fought for in the XVI c.
So many great parts in this debate. For example, I loved the part during Jimmy’s cross examination where White essentially affirms and denies important entailments of purgatory almost simultaneously.
thats because he realized that he was agreeing with the pope 😅
Faith without love is dead.
The devil believes, but he has no love for God or neighbor.
The pastors of the flock of Protestantism pick and choose selectively which passages to twist to fit their versions of the "gospel" and what to leave out entirely or explain away. Jesus warned us of such "wolves in sheep's clothing" and that we would know them by their fruits--or lack thereof.
What is so sad about this debate is that James White simply is not looking for common ground on which to build a dialogue, but seemingly just wants to prove he is right and the Catholic Church is wrong. His entire religion is to prove the Catholic Church wrong. It is sad that he says "faith in love", but truly does not know love. And if one does not know love then he does not know God.
Quite the assumption to say he isn't loving. Listen to his arguments, don't judge him for his tone during a debate. Debates aren't for finding common ground
If you believe his arguments to be true that's all right with me. Every person comes to the Truth on their own path. Yet, it is how we behave on that path that makes us Christian.
It's a debate, not a discussion. What you're looking for isn't wrong, this just isn't that environment.
of course he wants to prove he is right, anything else wouldn't be loving.
if you know someone's house is on fire, you should with all your might tell that person that his house is on fire and that he should get out now..
I'd have to agree to an extent. I especially don't like the way he uses Roman-Catholic as an epithet, even though he's been politely corrected numerous times on the nomenclature.
I became Catholic after 30 ish years evangelical. Bad theology =bad marriage. Grateful things have improved after we both became Catholic. Praying for James White and his marriage.
Yay, Protestants can get you to Jesus but can’t do much for you after that.
That’s a rude and accusatory statement. You’re implying James White has a bad marriage because he’s a Protestant? Gross.
@@SerenityNow22idk about his marriage but clearly he has bad theology since he's a heretic
@@revelation20232 Protestants are not the ones committing the Galatian heresy (adding works to the gospel).
@@SerenityNow22 Hi, Sarah.
You do realise, do you not, that Catholicism claims that Paul was and is Catholic, that Galatians is a Catholic book, that Galatians is inspired, and that it was the Catholic Church which included Galatians in the canon of inspired books, so that Galatians is in the Bible? I'm not here asking you to agree with the Church's claims, but just to recognise that the Church understands Galatians to be part of God's revelation and so part of His patrimony to the Church. Since the Church holds that God is one, and that truth is one, whatever the Church holds about the question of salvation, of justification, of the relationship between faith and works has to be compatible with what Paul taught the Galatians and wrote to them in his letter. Again, I'm not asking you to agree that the Church's doctrine on these matters is compatible with Galatians, but only that She understand that it is compatible. The question then is, what does the Church understand about these matters, and about what Paul taught the Galatians, which allows Her to think that they work well together? Clearly what Protestants claim the Church reaches is not compatible with what Protestants claim Paul teaches the Galatians, so there is a fundamental disagreement between Catholic and Protestant about what the Church teaches on these matters and what Protestants claim the Church teaches about these matters. Since it is the Church teaching about what She teaches about these matters, the reasonable supposition is that Protestant claims about Catholic teachings are mistaken.
An elementary school Catholic catechism student could have told Dr White that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was once and for all time.
Dr White just doesn’t understand Catholic teaching.
Maybe someday he’ll actually put aside his assumptions and honestly listen. I pray for his conversion.
He’s just acting like he doesn’t, like most Protestants to score points
He should go to Mass with his sister.
Pray for him to come to the RCC
Praise God that He has graced me with ears to hear the truth of THE GOSPEL.
I hope you heard that
Truth from Dr. White, for in this debate there is only one Truth.
@@Merih98614😂😂
Honestly I've never seen a debater lose so many debates consecutively, James White astonishes me. One of the single best Catholic Apologists it must MUST be a secret plan.
I think you're onto something
Conspiracy theories! They make you feel like you're onto something. :)
😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂👏👏👏👏❤🙏🕊✝️
So beautiful to listen to Jimmy Aiken calmly and persuasively refute each and every trope and reasonable challenge by JW.
@joevasanu7459, sure, Jimmy the sloppy cowboy clown never addressed James's opening statements on Hebrews and Romans. I wonder why 🤔
...and the unreasonable challenges, too!
As a Lutheran, well done Jimmy.
Lol, I have a legit question. White asserts that Protestants who actually practice "by Scripture alone" are more united than Christians who have tradition as well.
Do you think that is really the case? Do you think White is probably defining away a lot of other Protestant Christians who would severely disagree with his understanding of the Bible?
Based
Haters of the failed coup Revolt leader Martin Luther's followers follow him to the bottomless abyss
You must be one of the super liberal Lutherans that James White was talking about! 🤣
Well, done for Not addressing James White's opening statement in Hebrews and Romans.👋
At the 1:14:10 mark Dr. White never offers an explanation to Akin’s question. He admits many Christians aren’t completely, experientially righteous at death but they are in heaven. He attacks purgatory etc. but offers no explanation on how or when that happens, let alone provide scriptural support for it. If I missed it, someone please direct me to it.
Attack purgatory, purgatory gets you.Purgatory W-Atkins :)
Jimmy's cross-examination of James was BRUTAL. I kept looking around for a referee to stop the fight.
FUNNY BRO !!!
Bro 😂😂😂
Jimmy Akin is just too skillful. He articulated himself and forced White to answer instead of throwing terms around to distract.
Said no one ever!
Too skillful in saying "TOO MANY WORDS" - thereby dodging what Scripture says? Terms matter, for definition of terms show understanding - because if you're understanding of how to approach God is wrong, you're going to the Lake of Fire. You've got to nail this, you can only do so withing your lifetime. So here's an idea: how about if you show how Dr. White is BIBILICALLY wrong instead of insulting him?
He forces James to confront his own contradictions instead of conveniently ignore or project them.
@@soulosxpiotov7280No where in that guy’s comment did he insult James White. You’re making that up.
@@bourbonrebel5515 " instead of throwing terms around to distract" - right here. Are you assuming that it was Dr. White's motives 'to distract' ?
As a Catholic I always try and take the side of the opposition in a debate in the interest of truth, but it is actually really difficult to try and be on James Whites side because he is way overly aggressive and insanely prideful it oozes from his demeanor and the way he speaks and after two hours its extremely tiring
James White has a passionate way of talking.
Even when he's talking with his friends
@@goyonman9655 That guy has friends???
@@richardgreene6810
Of course he does
Yoy seem to find the concept of friendship surprising
Jimmy has EXposed REFORMATION... Feel sorry for JAMES WHITE.. SHOULDN'T HAVE DEBATED JIMMY.
Imagine spending decades arguing with people and still not understanding the faith you are arguing for, that unfortunately is James White. I think he means well, he’s just so angry that it makes it hard to tell.
I don’t think he understands his opposition either. And yes, he comes off as so very angry. The body language, the eye rolls, the smirks. It’s extremely unsettling
Seriously? That canard?
@@gc3563 Yeah he does understand the opposition. The only ones claiming that he doesn't understand Roman Catholicism are youtube apologist. None of his opponents on the stage have claimed that his understanding is incorrect. So your comment means nothing.
@@KnightFel if my comment means nothing, and that’s fine it’s just my opinion, then same goes to you. You are entitled to your opinion as well, but your comment means nothing.
James white is God tool that brings more converts to Catholicism...
White should have selected a different topic as he's all over the map - wanting to know about: the Sacraments, the role of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces which come to us ultimately from Jesus' death on the Cross, the Holy Mass, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc. If White wanted to talk about that we'd all be happy to listen, but he should have selected a different topic or add more nights to allow for additional topics.
It's a common tactic called "Prot vomit."
I have less respect for James White the more debates I see him in. It is obvious that he hates the Catholic Church and that’s too bad.
If church preaches heresy I would hate it too.
@@thomasglass9491 Roman Catholicism is false:
ruclips.net/video/UCbBUQztE6M/видео.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
Because Roman Catholicism is false :
ruclips.net/video/UCbBUQztE6M/видео.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
He seems especially bitter ever since his sister converted to the Catholic Church years ago.
@@groatswerth2073 I would be too if a family member converted to a heretical institution whose gospel cannot save nor give you peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Akim What is the point to analize anathema with the catholic concept?, it is better to analize the word with the greek of the old testament, in which cleary the word means cursed, not to be separated, Jim should differentiate the faith in Jesus and the faith in the path of the christian, the faith in Jesus is enough to be justified as haopened with abraham, but other thing is the faith in the path of the Christian, in which can shake and doubt cause we are humans.
1:14:50 - Gentlemen do not take into account Christ's accounting, adding up, summarizing judgment for the work done on earth.
When a person dies, he is judged and undergoes a trial by fire - the trial by fire is a judgment of your entire life and state of sanctification.
1 Corinthians 3:12 - 15.
Imagine being sick in the hospital and James White is your chaplain 🤣
“What do you mean you are suffering? All of our suffering was completed in the death of Christ, you can’t really be suffering”
🤣 nice one brother 🤣
"I truly hope you never prayed a rosary and are one of the elect."
And at a Catholic hospital. 😅
@@richardgreene6810😂😂😂
I honestly don't get the comments on this one, everyone is talking about James Whites tone, trying to find common ground and being charitable.
First its a debate we want clash to see the clash of ideas we don't want common ground where equivications make it impossible to understand the differences (Something Jimmy Akin did)
Second if you want to be charitable, actually do a rebuttle. Jimmy avoided twice doing a rebuttle and just did his own presentation ignoring his opponent on purpose how is that charitable. Siting that James White did a gish gallop. When all he was trying to do was to show where the ideas clashed by the numerous differences in the outcomes of the doctrines, so that there could be meaningful clash. And if anyone has watched a number of James Whites debates you'll see how he deals with arguments like that against him. He addressed them shortly and quickly, rather than ignoring his opponent and poisoning the well accusing him of bad behaviour (clashing with the man rather than the idieas).
Third critisising catholic teachings is fair game in a debate, its not attacking the man, and it shows the outcome of the ideas. The only question you need to ask is "Are the ideas related to peace with God?"
I feel like everyone in the comments are a bunch of people who came to watch a soccer game and are complaining that one side is kicking the ball, while the other one is trying to be nice to the ball. You came to watch soccer the ball is going to get kicked. - The problem comes when you kick the man.
It is loving to disagree vigorously and openly because that is the correct way. It is deceitful to conceal disagreement behind a pretense of good manners.
Christians have to start learning the difference between being nice and being loving.
Incorrect. How about you watch Jimmy Akin's debate debrief and get a better picture of what the debate was supposed to be. White is a dishonest debater.
@@EruIluvatar5 sorry what is incorrect about what I wrote?
Surprisingly White has gotten worse in debating as he’s gotten older. And he didn’t start out great to begin with.
Fr Pacwa highlighted is error 30 years ago. It won't change by listening to the old audio or video.
Oh but he told us he debated all these people before about this subject. Doesn't that mean he was and is the winner prima facie? 😆
Yes through faith and prayer and specially confessed to our priest my sins first I didmy novena to our Blessed Virgin Mary and to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and praying the 3:00 o’clock pm prayer Hour of Mercy of the Divine Mercy every day Mama Mary and Lord Jesus answered my petition and miracles happened to me on June 1997
James White - spends two hours being vicious, petty, and uncharitable to Catholics.
Host - "stick around for James White's free seminar on how to love Catholics"
😂😂😂😂
"Love" is Protestant code for "convert".
Would you have said that to Elijah, on Mount Carmel, when he was chastising the people of Israel, and subsequently ordering the deaths of all the false prophets? James was tame, by comparison. False gospel teaching is damnable. The apostle Paul used the anathema word against those who preached a false gospel. James was tame, by comparison....
@michaelsowerby8198 do you think Elijah sold a lot of books at his free seminar on how to love false prophets?
@@michaelsowerby8198 It's Whites lack of knowlege of Christianity and his belief that he has knowledge that is the problem. If he himbles himself Christ will make him Catholic
Can you name an example in this debate where James was being vicious or petty beyond what would be considered acceptable in a debate format? Timestamps would be awesome.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
As per usual, we can listen to the authority of James White, or the Church established by Jesus.
James makes Jesus out to be liar and undependable, no less that he did NOT lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Jesus made numerous statements about his Church, nearly 2000 years before James came along:
Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18)
Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10)
*Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13)
Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20)
Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
fr lol
To put it simply, there is no greater authority than Sola scriptura but Sola White😆.
@@clemenaparente9773 True This: James disagrees with ALL kinds of protestant denominations - and Sola Scriptura gives him no authority to say his fallible interpretation of scripture is right, and they wrong.
"If you wish to persuade and convince me without fail: first be able think my thoughts inside your mind, second feel my feelings as someone in my circumstances would, and third, produce my my words but through your voice."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
Pastor Brian Gunter speaking at 5:02-07: "The question of tonight's debate is 'How does one find peace with God'"?
Response: Jesus speaking to His disciples at the Last Supper in John 14: 27 (NASB): “Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful."
Answer: Likewise, wouldn't Christians find this gift of peace from Jesus at their own commemoration of His Last Supper?
Akin doesn't address the issue. How and why purgatory, indulgences, mass, Mary as co-redemptrix, penance, priestly absolution, and any others that Rome requires for salvation. He says 'not enough time. 'frustrating. He also conflates justification as legal standing with meaning that we become exactly like Jesus in every way! That's ridiculous and not making any effort to understand what protestants are claiming that biblical justification means. disagree but explain why, that's the point of a debate, don't claim nonsense that Protestants claim that every knee will bow to each of us!
He did but perhaps you just do not like the answers. ruclips.net/video/OF-bQHtJLEw/видео.html
He also invited James to discuss those topics on his show with him. He’s not dodging, he was sticking to the prompt.
So let me get this straight. Jimmy starts his opening statement by saying we shouldn’t quarrel about definitions. Then proceeds to redefine terms and what? Expect not to be challenged on the redefinitions?
What terms did he redefine?
.
1:25:09 James White calls a Catholic priest "Father"
😂😂😂😂
Thank you for finally acknowledging his title. First time I heard you do that and you earned a little respect from me for the first time.
Wow,,, James really just refused to deal with Jimmy on purgatory… Holly cow. That’s the whole reason we are here man. Answer the questions.
He did by explaining the gospel. No need for purgatory when we have the gospel. James already exposed purgatory against Horn anyways.
@@KnightFelfalse. We are not experientially perfect when we die, obviously. We need to be really perfect to enter heaven. Explain the change. Purgatory explains the change. White does not and cannot.
@@KnightFel The Gospel does not run counter to Purgatory. The Catholic Church could not to teach Purgatory if it was contrary.
If you can point to the contradiction, then I will agree with you.
Yes it does Purgatory
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14)
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Leviticus 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lamentations 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:29)
Indulgence We have an express example of a temporal penance given and then relaxed (an indulgence), straight from the Apostle Paul. He imposed a penance on a man who had sinned (1 Corinthians 5:3-5). Later, he relaxed it:
@@KnightFelwhere?
I think it's pretty clear which speaker has more of the peace of Christ
I find James White to be disingenuous by always taking cheap shots. His comment about Pope Honorius was an example of how protestants stretch the truth to disprove infallibility. Honorius never taught heresy, he never expressed heresy in any public pronouncements, or sermon. He was in discussion about a heresy that was being taught by Patriarch Sergius of Constantinople. As Pope (bishop of Rome) successor of St Peter, his role was protector of the faith and to be the point of unity. In an attempt to somehow bridge the divide between Constantinople and the rest of the Church he did write several letters to the north African bishops and Sergius to discuss options or ways to remedy the situation. Weather he held personal beliefs that were considered heretical is debatable, never the less 41 years after his death he was pronounced a heretic. 41 years, is a long time and shows this issue had prolonged effect on the Church. Having a personal belief is different than officially proclaiming that belief as a infallible truth, which he did not. It is like a judge having personal issues with a particular law, and he may discuss it with other judges, but he never allows this issue to interfere with his duty of distributing justice under existing law.
If he never taught heresy, why was he declared a heretic?
@goyonman9655 Read the actual history behind it, not the protestant propaganda. It was thought he held the view personally. Again, their is no evidence anywhere that he taught heresy. The charge came 41 years after his death, no one with any knowledge of the situation was still alive to defend him. This had political implications as well.
Does James hold to the same position on baptism as the pelagians??
The disarming of Dr White leaves him upset because there is nothing to argue about. " Then why am I angry at the Catholic Church? Dr White is nervous at the 1:12. He just cannot agree that water quenches your thirst. Dr White disagree's with everyone even the moderator on the end times, what a fearful life. Unless you believe your always right.
I think Jimmy very calmly and politely wiped the floor with James' arguments.
He most certainly did not, IF you believe THE BIBLE. God's Word and God's Yruth. Not sinful fallible man's version of it. Your Choice. I trust God. He is trustworthy, faithful & perfect!!!🙏🙏🙏
@@susanburrows810? Wouldn’t you be also considered sinful and fallible?
I’ve realized Protestants read way too much into the Bible rather than limit it to what is actually said. Which is rather ironic.
Uhh, huh....whatever helps you get by
Youre right… ive never met a protestant that believed romans 2. He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Their theology wont allow it…. So they use romans 3, Ephesians 2 to refute that passage. Literally turning the bible against itself instead of recognizing paul is talking about different categories of works. They recognize a difference in works of the spirit, works of the flesh, and works of darkness. But when it comes to works of the law and good works…. They HAVE to believe theyre the same thing but an easy way to prove theyre different is look at christ’s words in matthew 25.
for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Now imagine christ sticking a work of the law in there like circumcision or ritual washing…. It feels super alien but imagine him adding another good work of love like sheltering the homeless and it fits just fine. Easy.
@@timboslice980 "ive never met a protestant that believed romans 2" I believe in Romans 2. So I'm going to ask, has anyone ever PERSEVERINGLY, CONSISTENTLY, PERFECTLY FULFILLED GOD'S LAW - PERFECTLY - other than Christ Jesus ? Verse 7 & 10 says "The Doing The Good" - this is in the singular. Is there anyone other than Christ who was good VERY MOMENT OF HIS HUMAN EXISTENCE? See, you're thinking "doing SOME good a little here and a little there" - demonstrating you do not understand Romans 2. Romans 2 points to PERFECTION in fulfilling God's Law to be justified before God.
@@soulosxpiotov7280Wow no need to cope so hard. breathe… Now where does jt say that doing good deeds is the same as completely fulfilling the hebrew law? Youre inserting that entire assumption. Let’s walk through the text….
Therefore you are without excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others, for in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is in accordance with truth. 3 Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not realize that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but injustice, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be affliction and distress for everyone who does evil, both the Jew first and the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, both the Jew first and the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.
Nothing here about keeping or fulfilling the law. Good deeds are rewarded but that’s not the same thing as works of the law. The works of the law get you nothing…. But good works done in love help sanctify us! They are an essential part of the process of salvation. Now lets see what paul says about works of the law….
All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged in accordance with the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When gentiles, who do not possess the law, by nature do[a] what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, as their own conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God through Christ Jesus judges the secret thoughts of all.
Here we see doing the law gains you nothing but justification. As soon as you fail to do the law you are found guilty by it. Whether jew, greek, or unbeliever…. So you are right when it comes to works of the law and wrong when it comes to good works. They are not the same thing….. paul is really clear here. Lets go back to the first section to address your accusation that i believe “ a little good works here gets me closer to heaven and a little sin here or there gets me closer to hell” thats not what i believe nor what catholics teach just another poor assumption based on you guy’s not being able to recognize the difference in categories of works.
Its funny… protestants will interpret the bible in hundreds of different ways but when it comes to romans 2…. None of you seem to recognize this clear teaching. In fact if you take your interpretation to its logical conclusion, youre actually making a way for people who have no faith in christ and only in the law to be saved. Otherwise paul is just presenting a false possibility in extremely high detail.
I’ll elaborate. So if a person can attain eternal salvation apart from faith in christ and only through works of the law, then paul is refuting himself when he saves only through christ can we be saved. Otherwise he’a giving you two options. Walk perfectly in the jewish law as christ did or put your faith in him. This is a false option since nobody can fulfill the law as christ did since it’s already been fulfilled. Why would paul do this? Why the elaborate detail about who they are saved or condemned if they choose this route? Lets say i take paul up on his challenge here…. I forsake ALL selfishness and live only to fullfill the law as best i can. Then what would he say? Probably… “For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.” Or
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.”
You see…. There is no way to earn salvation through works of the law we agree on that! What we disagree on is if good deeds or good works are the same thing as works of the law. If it were romans 2 would look very different in that first section. Imagine it said
“to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, there will be wrath and fury” you see now it matches protestant theology. You have to totally reverse the passage to make it work. How is this not a red flag?
Last point…. Matthew 25. Our lord says “Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Now imagine him adding a work of the law in there like “i gave you a son and you didnt circumcise him, i gave you food and you didnt wash yourself according to torah” it just feels super alien. However imagine it saying “ i was lost and you didnt look for me, or i was in anguish and you didnt comfort me” that sounds like it would fit perfectly. Works of the law, works of the spirit, works of the flesh, works of darkness, and good works done in love are all different categories of works.
@@timboslice980 How do you seek immortality? By seeking Christ and repenting and trusting in Him alone. Seeking immortality isn't done by charitable works. Keep reading Romans. The only ones who actually seek are those who have been regenerated already. As Paul literally says in the next chapter, nobody seeks for God, and in Romans 8, that those in the flesh cannot even obey God. Literally unable to.
As a Catholic, I am genuinely curious how people who reject Catholicism go about choosing which protestant denomination to follow. There are some key differences between them and I would guess most don’t investigate them too much, but I could be wrong.
James White is petrified to answer questions with a simple Yes or No. You either agree, James, or you don't. It's pretty simple. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James sounds like a modem politician. Nuff said.
I've never heard Jimmy Akin before. Really sharp guy from what I could tell. Also I love his style
Notice how Dr. White refuses to talk about love and charity within faith. He says alot of things about faith, righteousness, imputation but zero mention of the place of love and charity. Has James not read the gospel of John? There seems to be some obsession with faith to the point that love seems divorced from faith.
Yes, those do seem to be the concepts most lacking in White's theological teleology.
White has a huge heart for catholics, Mormons, and JWs. But faith is extremely important, it's vital. The topic wasn't on love. Faith is the key and faith alone. So yeah, of course he is zealous. Not sure why that's so surprising. Just because Akin sounds charitable doesn't mean he is correct. Satan comes as an angel of light too. Not saying Akin is satin, just making the point that evil can also show up kind and loving, so it's not really relevant.
@KnightFel if you have faith without love you have a dead faith. So, yes faith is important but it needs to incorporate love to be saving. As is pointed out by Jimmy read 1 Corinthians 13:2.
@KnightFel White doesn't like the concept of love bc love affirms human freedom. Calvinist hates the concept of human freedom. Also love encompasses all mankind, it does not discriminate. But for White only some get loved while others are damned. There is your reason why White avoids the topic of love at all cost and even gets uncomfy when paired with faith. Paul condemns White when he said if you have faith but no love then you are nothing, also when he said love is greater than faith. White would never ever address those scriptural passages.
@@MrJayb76 No need, because love isn't what saves. Faith does. Love is a result of salvation. Also, God is not obligated to save a people in constant rebellion to Him. He is gracious and merciful because He does not HAVE to give mercy and grace to anyone. Otherwise, it ceases to be mercy and grace. The unbeliever (which is in the flesh), cannot please God, he is UNABLE to, as Paul says in Romans 8. God is the one who saves out of His own volition. Calvinism doesn't hate freewill. It hates elevating man to a place man does not belong. Man has free will, he just constantly freely chooses evil.
James White being extremely unecumenical during this. Not trying to find common ground, not trying to unite Christians, not trying to see Jimmy's arguments in good faith. Shows very poor character.
Going into these debates without the goal of uniting Christians, shows his disordered view of Christianity and the world. Very sad to see. I think it's safe to say he gains joy off fracturing Christianity, very obviously a protestant. It's in the nature of one who protests.
This simple showcasing of the spirit shows it all. You see a spiritual psychological egoism from James White . I’m no one to judge but I just don’t see the Joy,Grace and love from white I just don’t hear my Beloved Jesus Christ when he speaks. There’s this frustration in his demeanor as his his belief foundation is crumbling before him.
Every debate James does, the axe he so clearly has to grind with the Catholic Church goes on full display. He stands and sits there and is clearly in complete disgust, annoyance, uncomfortable. Is smirking and looking around like he’s too good for this, laughs at peoples questions. The disingenuous laughter that he does. If I were still Protestant, there’s nothing coming from this brother that would convince me of his position, not to mention he’s a Calvinist 😵💫. May God bless him and good luck to him.
Because he (as a Calvinist) assumes we all are unsaved usurpers.
I noticed that too.
Jimmy: Here are points we agree on…
James: I refuse to admit we agree on anything.
Thank you for not censoring comments here.
why is jame white talking about debates he did some 30 years back without even answering questions or sticking to the debates?
James you are right. The. Blessed man is just like paul who in acts was baptized calling on his name for the washing away of his sin. Peter says baptism now saves you! So yes the free gift of initial justification is a free gift. But as is said by Paul and Jesus you must persevere in the faith to be saved. Faith without works is dead (james) . You are his Workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works,that you should walk in them. Ephesians.10
There's no such thing as "initial justification." Also, keep reading the verse on baptism. You all always stop there. Proof texting is useless. Your quotation on Ephesians 2: 8-10 is perfeclty consistent with reformed theology. You are saved by faith alone, not faith + works. Works comes after faith, that's why you're saved for, that's what you're created for, and not works to prove to God anything, but for your neighbor and to glorify God. Rome says no, you need works along with faith to increase in justification, which is utterly false. You proved Dr. White's point.
Baptism saves in the same way the Ark saved Noah. It does not impart salvation, only the death of Christ does that. And it does that by grace through faith. Regeneration doesn’t even save you, even if baptism did regenerate you, which it does not. The only thing that gives salvation is God’s grace, and we can only receive that grace through faith.
@@fuelmotive8716baptism is only salvific because of God obviously, but for you to say baptism does not regenerate would mean you stand against the entire history of the church beginning to end. I assure you, the church was not entirely in error prior to your coming. You are not the saviour of the church.
@@Jrce11 I did not say that the entirety of Christian’s are in error “prior to my coming” nor did I say I was “the savior of the church.” There is one savior of the Church and that is Christ Jesus, and saying that I made any statements even close to that is ridiculously stupid.
@@fuelmotive8716 you are here to correct the entire church on the issue of baptism despite what nearly every single early church writer had to say on the matter, correct?
Praise be Jesus Christ for equipping his servant Jimmy Akin to utterly destroy the heresy of Calvinism.
lol really trying to convince yourself their bud.
Akins is predestined to be W
James W. NEVER answered the question:
“WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE DOCTRINE SOLA SCRIPTURA?”
He deflected to different topics because… he knows it’s not written.
The balanced approach is
Both Oral Tradition through the apostles AND scripture.
because it is NOT in scripture
At the 25:35 minute mark, when Jimmy is giving the points on "anathema", this is very disingenuous. The 2nd Council of Nicea defined what anathema is, quote, "Now anathema is nothing less than complete separation from God." In other words, hell. In addition, he said that those only apply to the Catholic Church. In what possible reality would that ever make sense? The Catholic Church already doesn't consider anyone other than Catholics true Christians and not being part of the Catholic Church, even if they're a Martyr, will profit them nothing if they aren't part of the visible Catholic Church (read the Council of Florence for more on this).
@JimmyAkin is one of most gracious debaters while being stern without being a scoffer.
not once did Jimmy Akin address James White's opening statement in Hebrews and Romans. I wonder why 🤔
@catholictruth102 The Reformed view is not the same thing as Once Saved Always Saved. The Westminster Confession has an entire chapter on the perseverance of the saints.
@catholictruth102 The warning passages do not prove that election is conditional.
Akin was sparky throughout the debate. Secondly, he never addressed the actual Reformed and Scriptural position. He kept using strawman fallacies. Furthermore, the Bible does teach Sola scriptura many times over. Westminster Confession 1:6. By good and necessary consequence. Additionally, the phrase "word of God" is l9gically deduced from Scripture just as the word Trinity does not occur in the text but is perfectly a biblical term.
God will be Gracious to whom he will be Gracious. Thank you, Lord, for saving a wrech like me! For the praise of His glorious Grace! 🙌
Paul was right, a Jewish christian can't think he has the golden ticket and God owes him something. God can't be wrestled into submission based on someone's heritage.
When James is confirmed into the Catholic faith some day, Jimmy will probably be his confirmation sponsor. Gonna be great
Amen🎉
What a charitable thought to have.
I wish I had that kind of hope for him.
I'll keep praying....🙏❤🕊✝️👑⛪
Lol..
James White would rather die than become Catholic. his “faith alone” walk with God is merely a facade that is meant to cover up (barely) his anti-Catholicism. if James White couldn’t talk about the Catholic Church, his “faith” would die.
Baptism is required for salvation, its biblical, Jesus said it. It is also in the old testament. Its absurd some reformed protestants will object to it.
You would think all Christians could be for that but nope
Why does James care so much about mentioning all of his debates over and over? Is he really that prideful to think that he is some kind of standard now since he’s done so many debates? Give me a break.
That's a bit of an assumption. I believe he like to point out how arguments by Catholics have changed over time. I also think that getting older he just likes to reminisce.
@@holinessofthebride1935, I don’t believe that Catholic argument have changed over time and debating isn’t a time to reminisce. Unfortunately, James White has been refuted on a number of points, and he still keeps repeating the same arguments. Jimmy simply added more nuance to the Catholic position that James White couldn’t handle. I’m not even Catholic by the way, so I have no bias in this.
@@KingandQueens12 Some Catholics arguments have indeed changed, just as the Church has changed. It's fair to point out, although it's of lesser value if it's just the explanations of apologists.
I guess I would have to ask if we don’t receive righteousness identical to Christ how can we even make it to heaven.
Seems to me that the whole plan of Christ was to give the righteousness earned at the cross to all so we can be saved. If we had to rely on our own righteousness we would have never made it.
I don’t understand Jimmy’s argument at all. We don’t get the title of Christ, so our names won’t be above all, but we receive the righteousness of Christ, because his righteousness is perfect.
Jimmy's point is that we receive the same kind of riteousness, but not the same quantity. Christ has infinite riteousness, making His name above all, whereas we have much less, but can grow in that riteousness throughout the Chrisitian life. But never to the level of Christ.
How did Jimmy win if he agreed to all his opponents points?
Amazing isn’t it. We are much closer than Protestants assume.
Let's suppose that this is what Jimmy did. If in fact you agree with a possible Catholic position on this central issue of the Reformation, then there is literally no reason to remain Protestant. Everything else stands or falls on this issue.
@@benabaxter The priesthood, purgatory, Marian dogmas, the Papacy, indulgences, praying to the saints, working to increase your "initial" justification are all excellent reasons why not to cross the Tiber.
I think Jimmy mentioned this was a different kind of debate where each person brought forward their own positive positions, rather than debate a disagreement
@@KnightFelwhy not dive into those topics instead of dismissing them with surface level information or misinformation? I'm a former rabid anti-Catholic and I was fed a load of lies. I debate online and I have yet to come across a protestant who actually disagrees with Catholicism. They always disagree based upon misconceptions and misinformation that are fed to them by people like James White and John MacArthur.