I just bought the CCS adapter and am excited to try it. My parents live in Canada in a border town. There is a supercharger on the US side, but the nearest SC on the Canadian side is an hour away. So when I visit them for a week I need charging options. An electrify Canada station was recently installed there, so this adapter is going to save me.
I'm so glad that you mentioned at the end about not all Teslas are equipt to support CCS1 adapters. A lot of people have been buying these adapters and finding out it doesn't work. There are DIY instructions online on how to swap out the charge port hardware to make it work, but it's risky. I believe the Tesla service center will also swap it for you but it's pretty expensive. Thanks again for the testing results!
Hey, Tom. I just drove my 2021 Model 3 SR+ from Sacramento CA to Louisville, KY. I drove thru CA, AZ, NM, TX, OK, MS, and KY. Having the base model means I visited 1 or 2 more SuperChargers each day. Average of 500 miles per day. Average stop of 25-30 min. At no stop, in all those states, did I wait. Big city (LA area), small town, wide spot in the road. I drove up, backed in, plugged in and started charging. Two stops filled up while I was there, but the turnover seemed good. At one stop, there was one stall not working. Most of the time, if I wasn’t the only Tesla there, there were one or two others. Weekday, weekend, day, night… It made no difference. The week Before, my wife drove her 2021 VW ID.4 PRO from Sacramento to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. We are talking some remote roads through remote areas (Google map it). Yet, we had no problems. All but one charger was EA, and the other (a ChargePoint in Kanab UT) worked perfectly. In a few days, I am driving back to CA via a different route. I expect I’ll have similar results. Even in THE base model Tesla, a cross country trip is not only feasible… it’s quite a joy! Keep up the great work, Tom.
Tom, you are always thorough and honest with your reviews, explaining the results and reasons for any variance that was unexpected. Couldn't ask for a fairer reviewer!!!
Thank you for being so consistent and thorough. As far as I am concerned you are the authority on EV charging and its not even close. I bought my Wallbox charger a year ago on your recommendation and love it. This video as always was very informative and useful. I will likely be picking up one of these adapters
Great information and testing Tom, this is good news for Tesla owners who are capable of using CCS adapter. Having more available charging stations is a wonderful thing.
I On a recent trip to Lake Tahoe, I used the charge adapter included with my 2021 Model Y and plugged into the 115V every time I was back at my Airbnb. This was sufficient for the entire week. No special charging plug or dryer access. Many people don’t realize that they don’t drive enough miles per day to require DC Fast charging.
I took delivery of my new Model Y on 10/31/21 and my car is not CCS compatible. I understand that this had to do with the chip shortage and my car would need a minor hardware upgrade in order to use the CCS adapter. So you can’t just go by build date, you have to check in the car’s software as Tom showed. Great video!
This is awesome! Got a subscriber out of me. I'm glad Electrify America is doing so well. Though I do kinda wish Tesla's connector had become the standard, because I think the connector itself is superior. I do have a feeling those discrepancies are due to cooling the cable, and it looks like EA is doing a great job of it if that's the case.
This is very shocking in a good way! I've only even seen a handful of Electrify American chargers so far and many times they are new and not actually operational yet. Definitely want to get one of these adapters though just to have that extra option during our road trips.
Hi Tom, I like these types of vids, thank you! What would be great: - give us a TLDR. My takeaway was Electrify was a smidge better What I didn't learn: - cost differences? - nav integration for TSLA or Ford?
I’ve been extremely happy with my CCS1 adapter. I was able to peak at 188kW on an EA station in Bristow, OK and it charged up my Model 3 super quick. If your car can support it, I highly highly recommend it.
Here in South Africa, like most countries, our voltage is 220-260V. As a result we are able to have plug and play chargers. You plug on a normal wall socket, no installation.
We do not have an EV yet, but I really appreciate your charging research. It will be very helpful for us when we get our first EV. Thanks Tom, Great Job again!
Nicely done. That's one thing most people don't understand. Tesla "superchargers" and Electrify America "chargers" are not actually chargers at all. They simply supply power to the car. The charger circuits are in the car.
That's not correct. They actually are chargers. They are DC fast chargers and they bypass the AC onboard charger and directly charge the battery. You are thinking about level 1 and level 2 AC charging. Those devices just supply power to the onboard charger which then sends the power to the battery. The chargers in this video are actually charging the vehicle by themselves.
The main disadvantage of charging at a V3 station is that the actual connector is small, and it heats up significantly. One channel provider wrapped a wet washcloth around the hose to vehicle connector, and claims faster charging as a result. Even if the charging cable on a V3 is actively cooled, the connector is not.
This is only the first step in Tesla opening up the charging network. Looking forward to plugging in my new Ioniq at a Supercharger with this reverse version of this adapter.
This is awesome. I don’t own an EV but follow the market pretty closely. Anyway, I have been wondering for a while now why Tesla owners don’t just hop over to the other networks when they are so backed up especially on holidays. This video confirms my suspicions - there is no reason! Maybe the adapter you’re talking about wasn’t available before. Hopefully this will help with upcoming holidays! Nothing like long lines at a supercharger to close people off to the idea of owning any EV.
@E S true, the infrastructure is shoddy at best. Again, strictly as an observer…currently not my problem. But by the time it is, I reckon it will be much better.
Excellent testing as usual, Tom. FYI- I have a 2020 Model S LR+ and recently bought the CCS1 adapter as my Model S, manufactured in February 2020 is compatible. With free SC, I only have the adapter as a backup for traveling where there are no Superchargers in range which is pretty rare these days. I did test it out and found the charging curve to be about the same as the V3. However, I don't run down to zero and charge to 100%. Usually 15% to 60% for long trips. I do understand your testing which is not how one would normally drive on a road trip. My 2+ year old Model S has a calculated range now of 387miles. When new it was 402 miles. I've been considering doing your cell balancing test at some point to see if that improves my calculated range. Some time if you can it would be great for a test on a Model S LR+.
There are also people who rent out their adapters. $5/day vs $400-500 purchase and import. I bought mine for a trip and now will rent it out in Canada. Many Tesla clubs rent out the CHAdeMO that will work on any Tesla.
Love these videos! I am an EV and data nerd so these are a good fix. We have a 2022 Model 3 LR with almost 17k miles on it in about 7 months. I was considering a road trips to some more remote places and the CCS adapter could come in handy. I have opted for something a little closer as I can’t be sure I would get the adapter in time from S Korea. I do wish Tesla would go ahead and release the adapter here in the US for the cars that are enabled (I checked and mine is). Before this I had an 2021 3 SR+ and several years ago I had a BMW i3 REx which got me addicted to EVs. Now I am trying to talk my wife into an Ioniq 5. That 800volt charging speed in Hi5 looks amazing but the lack of CCS in the Midsouth is still a big issue for us. Somebody tell EA they need a charger between Memphis and Birmingham on I22! I have filed 3 petitions but they seem to not understand that they are missing a key corridor connecting millions of people from the West through Midsouth down to the Deep South and Florida. Anyway appreciate your videos and charts as always. Super helpful!
Does the Tesla dash compensate for cable losses to try and indicate what is delivered from the charger (what you pay for)? If so the calculations may be a bit off because of the adapter. Also my guess is the extra energy was charging part of the pack that is unavailable to the user. It's pretty well known that Tesla limits the output from the battery pack using software.
Just subscribed to your channel as my interest for an EV is increasing. I’ve watched dozens of videos and I’m embarrassed to say I still can’t absorb all the numbers and measurements, and what they mean. Because you seem to be the most comprehensive and thorough channel in terms of EV's, It would be incredible if you could do a video like 'EV's for beginners' going over what all the terms are, maybe comparing 3 or 4 car's ratings side by side, giving the highs and lows of what to look for in battery ratings, charging, the difference in a slow charging car like the Bolt VS. a EV6. Just when I think I know about EV's a new term is used. Some people refer to charging in Watts vs. kilowatts? Or is it Amps? Or Volts? Ugh! LOL. Seems like I’m more confused than ever. I bet that type of video would be so helpful to us beginners. If not, thanks for doing what you do👍
I took a trip last year (about 600km each way), and then repeated the same trip this year at about the same time of year, so ambient temperature similar. the supercharging stops where much shorter (like half?.) I think Tesla has been fine tuning their charging strategies, and that your new V3 test might turn out quite different.
Have the early 2020 Model 3 with no CCS support. Good video. Haven't really found the need for other chargers beyond superchargers, after 70k miles. Sold my Chademo adapter a year ago.
Fantastic. Every one should have an adapter. While most charge at home it's about getting those apartment living EV drivers charged. That's a huge market. And everyone that doesn't have a home has to go get charged. And no one wants to wait around to charge. Special if it's not covered Parking, no bathrooms and no snacks to buy while waiting. Plus i'd like to see all those other EVs. Like going to a car show only EV car show. We need a gas station NO A charging station.
Jonathan - have you seen the charging stations being deployed in the UK? Lots of covered chargers in one location, plus a lounge! They’re called Gridserve. Likely US versions - or similar - coming as EV sales pick up.
Thanks for the review I was looking at purchasing one of these. As far as the install of a charging station at home, it's not complicated at all. Took me less than 30 minutes to install a Tesla wall charger. It doesn't even need a GFCI breaker as Tesla has already Incorporated that into the charging station. Three wires, some conduit and just a little bit of an electrical knowledge will save you a lot of money. If somebody doesn't feel comfortable, definitely hire someone. But if you have a little bit of electrical common sense it's easy.
If you live in a apartment complex most don’t have charging stations. There have been 3 new apartments here in east side of Jefferson county ( Louisville) that were just built and none have charging stations
Tom. I do hope that Tesla will provide a way for CCS vehicles to utilize their network very soon before Teslas absorb the rather limited number of plugs available on the CCS network.
I got my CCS adapter, I only will use it only as a backup to SuperChargers on road trips. But I'm still leery of all the other DCFC sites being FULLY OPERATIONAL that I can count on 4/7 365.
As Elon said "Best to install a TESLA wall connector before you get your vehicle" ... Fast Charging is for most folk ... currently ideal, that's more than enough, for a rest and a drink etc .... good insight video my US friend ... Green energy love from the UK !
If you plotted kWh vs time, instead of percent full vs time, it would largely compensate for the difference in capacity now vs a year ago. But it will be even more accurate to simply repeat the V3 charge test with the car as it is now, with a modest reduction in capacity.
This is good content, although I’m really looking forward to seeing how quickly my BMW i4 charges at a Tesla supercharger when the hardware is opened up to non-Teslas :)
Meh, the Tesla SC are often crowded with all the Tesla’s sold. Just be satisfied that you have a better assembled car, and move on. Not worth the effort IMHO.
@@thegreeneyej Most of the Tesla SC in the Midwest US are empty (or close to empty) most of the time. Also, in rural areas (where DCFC is almost non-existent) there are available Tesla SC stations just waiting to be used. It is time to open them up. Tesla would be crazy to give up that additional revenue.
Great video Tom. You mentioned about KWh delivered being higher on V3 vs CCS1. The reasons you state are logical. But there is one other potential factor. The heat loss might be higher on the V3 due to the higher charge rates (less charging efficiency).
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You would be surprised. (sorry long response but I think it's worth it) The reason the charge curve on the V3 dips below the CCS1 after hitting it's peak is because of thermal throttling. That heat is from charging losses. While a notable amount of loss is from capacitive and inductive losses at high charge speeds most of the loss will be resistive. Resistive loss is exponentially proportional to the charging current squared. You mention in your video that the CCS1 connector is rated 400A. But to hit that power level it appears to be allowing ~500A. Tesla V3 superchargers are pushing ~650A to hit 250KW. The resistive losses at 650A are roughly 69% higher than 500A and that's assuming that resistance stays equal (which it doesn't). At the higher amperage resistance would also increase due to the thermal coefficient of the materials used increasing the difference in losses even more. So in reality I would hypothesize that the resistive losses might actually be closer to 75% higher at 650A than 500A due to increased internal resistance. Now you also mention 5mins. This number is more significant that you know. I work in product development for a company that makes electrical heating appliances. 5 minutes is the rule of thumb for devices to heat soak under high current initial loads (and is often used in certification standards). This if often used for both in-rush (inductive) and start-up (resistive) current effects. I suspect that the Tesla Model 3 internal components are not actually sized to handle 650A. But can exceed amperage for about 5 minutes before components start to heat soak. This same effect I also believe is present on the Mustang Mach-E which also sees a charging spike to 150KW for about 5 minutes before falling off. I personally believe that the Model 3 charge rate is more for marketing purposes so that Tesla can allow it's customers to advocate a 250KW peak charge rate while if they decreased the peak charging current they could likely find a more optimal average balance.
My 2021 (sept 21 build) MYP doesn’t have the ability to use the CCS adapter. I would mention for folks to check before purchase. Tesla isn’t offering retrofits yet.
Great video Tom, nice charts! Is it possible to find out if older Teslas can be retrofitted to accept the CCS1 adapter? And if so how difficult and costly it is?
Tesla did offer a kit for European Model S/X in order to be able to charge from a CCS2 station. As it uses the same protocol it should work also in the states, but I don’t think that Tesla will sell it to you. The price, if I remember correctly, was about 150€/$.
There is no Official retrofit kit through Tesla at the Moment. But supposedly one on the way at some point. There is a DIY workaround though thanks to someone on TMC doing the leg work. It requires updating to the Gen 4 Charge port ECU $ 140.00 and a small harness adapter available on EBAY $84. CCS1 to Tesla adapter is $307ish from S.Korea. Lastly it requires reinstalling the current software or waiting for Tesla to push the next Software update. This is required for the New ECU to be recognized otherwise the car won’t charge. I am going through this process now on my 2018 M3p. I have all the parts, just waiting for the Software to update. You must install the ECU just before the software install for it to be recognized.
15:25 This data seems to validate that Tesla owner's claims that he was actually able to travel across the country faster using the CCS1 adapter and Electrify America than he was able to do while using the Superchargers.
@@ryanhuber8629 any concerns that Tesla may be doing this to preserve the battery (eg sneakily having more battery but not charging into it and then cycling cells like modern ssd storage does)? I've done the rough math on my M3 awd and it seems I don't have "access" to roughly 3 kwh
Thanks for another great video! Do you think Tesla will ever do a retrofit for pre 2020 model 3's, or possibly add the needed hardware to a special adaptor for "legacy" cars? I have an early 2020 Sr+ and it would seem ridiculous to change it just for CCS capability. Intend to keep my 2020 for a lot longer. Will keep my eyes on your channel with the hope that you will cover the event should Tesla offer CCS to us "legacy" owners. Thanks again for your great efforts in EV adoption, education and promotion!
Tesla isn't officially selling them in the US yet so you need to buy one from a reseller. They do sell them in Korea, so people are buying them and importing them for resale here.
Great video Tom, I still believe that the tesla supercharger is the best. Reliable and everywhere. This also has to do with teslas charging system in their cars, it's above the rest.
I think there are more variables here. What was the ambient temperature when you were charging? What was the temperature of the battery when you started the charge? Both these variables will have an effect on the charging rate/time
Just goes to show you how many variables go into this. Age, temp, cars, individual charger, what type of driving did you do before the test. All that for a 2-3% difference. What do you estimate the margin of error might be with all those variables in play
You should try the EVgo 350kw chargers. As long as I don't have another car sharing the charger, I'm getting the fastest charge compared to Tesla or EA.
Public charging networks need reciprocity agreements like cell phone networks did a long time ago. Travelers having to have an "account" on every one of them will just never work. At the very least an abstracted payment method like PayPal would help.
That’s the way things work in Europe. You have CPO (Charge Point Operators) like EA and EMP (Electro Mobility Provider). With an account at one EMP you have access to many CPO, but still not everyone, and some EMPs have even constant kWh prices no mater where you charge.
@@JorgTheElder As long as that works great. But remember most are unattended so it's not easy to get help. Also, I expect chargers to be a target for criminals skimming cards because they are unattended.
I bought one and got some good speeds at the Baker, CA station. The only negitive was that a guy yelled at me to go use the Tesla stations. Some people will not like you charging with this thing.
Great data. I think this gives Tesla another reason to switch to CCS in North America eventually. Releasing the CCS1 adapter is a way for them to experiment.
Great video.But, as you said, to have a fair comparison you need to retest the V3 SuC charge curve now. Having said that, it looks to me as if the whole 250 kW trick is only a pure PR thing, as the car charges at least as fast if it stays below 180kW. On my opinion, the thermals of the battery limit the whole charging curve. With the v2 charger, I don’t see any reason why the car should throttle as it does, I think that in this case some parts of the charger are the ones that throttle. If I remember well those v2s had a max rate of 120 kW at the beginning. And a last point, I’ve heard that over here in Europe the M3 does only a max rate of 170-180kW on a non Tesla high power charger, but without knowing the truth light of the charging session, I thought that it would take longer on a non Tesla charger than on a v3. It seems that it shouldn’t be the case. Thank you for the very informative videos. 👍
Nice info. Did you actually use the Tesla onboard info in all situations for the graphs? Cause with EA you show the Charger info on screen. The rate the Charger info gives is including the losses. Onboard info is battery input only.
I just started looking into EVs so I could be totally off, but perhaps it kept changing to add the extra battery life you get when you're driving and the battery charge indicates O%. I'm referring to the reserve that the car doesn't measure. Gr8 vid. 🚙 🇺🇸
I have a 2018 Model 3 that does not support CCS according to the screen. That must mean that I cannot use this adapter? Tesla has not said if or how much it would cost to make my car CCS compatible.
My 2018 LR charges near 250kw until 20% then evenly tapers to be at 150kw at 50%. And thats in 100 degree weather. your car has an issue, overheating at the high charge rates
Too bad at some time in 2021 Tesla stopped putting in the CCS capability in the Model Y’s. I have October 2021 Model Y and it doesn’t have CCS enabled. Not sure if it’s something that can be fixed by software or if they at sometime would offer installation of the hardware. I have one vacation area I go where option for CCS 1 charging would provide a fast charging option.
What about the amount of time you spend on payment processing on an EA charging station and having to switch stations when the charger is not functioning properly? And what percent of EA chargers are not working at each location? The drawback to Tesla charging stations is the wait times when they’re full, although I’ve never had to wait more than 10 minutes so far. I suspect those wait times grow longer as more Teslas are sold.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks for reply! I did do that when I could, but in Northern California I went to a EA charger that was not near a Supercharger. I did turn on defrost, and I seemed to get decent speeds. Don't know if that was a fluke or not.
I have heard Tesla’s recommendations for optimum battery life when possible operate battery between 20% and 90%. Many of us exceed those numbers. Since you have a lot of experience operating outside those limits on your Model 3, how much range have you lost after your real world testing.
That recommendation is about daily charging routines. Tesla's own advice says it's fine to go to 100% when you are travelling. If you fill to 100% and drive off immiediately, that is fine in terms of battery wear. It is just going to take a long time, so isn't efficient use of superchargers. What is bad for the battery is plugging it at home, and setting 100% so letting it sit and maintain that level for hours or days. For home charging the recommendation is less than 90%. When I don't need the range, my car's home charging limit is usually set around 70%, when I know I'm going on a trip, I up it to 90%, and maybe an hour before departure, I might set to 100%. As long as you are not going to leave above 90% for long periods or continuously, it's fine. I think it is the same deal with
Now that the Tesla sc network is opening up for all EVs, what type of connectors will be there? The same as always or will they add the standard EV plug? Or will non Tesla owners need to get an adapter that's the reverse of the adapter you have in order to us the sc network? Do those adapters already exist?
February 18th UPDATE: Tesla's store now $ells the adapter for $175. It's rated up to 250KWH. Caveats: You must be a Tesla owner, and your car must be equipped with the Gen4 Charging computer from the factory. That leaves out most, if not all, Model 3'a manufactured prior to 2020. Retrofits will be available from Tesla - eventually The website says: Note: For vehicles requiring a retrofit, please check back in early 2023 for availability. I did that, and was told that the local service center does not yet have a date for the retrofit.
What about precondition of the battery. Did it precondition for the supervisor. Also the only way I could precondition for the CCS was to route to a nearby supercharger. That was just me testing.
⛱ *Tom, what are your thoughts about owning a model Y which will sit in the driveway out in the hot sun down in NC ?* 💥 I am concerned about losing too many electrons to phantom draw.
I just bought the CCS adapter and am excited to try it. My parents live in Canada in a border town. There is a supercharger on the US side, but the nearest SC on the Canadian side is an hour away. So when I visit them for a week I need charging options. An electrify Canada station was recently installed there, so this adapter is going to save me.
Excellent video ! And excellent advice to install chargers only with professionals.
Tom, I love that you answer the important questions with sufficient detail to understand the process and the pros and cons. Excellent work.
I'm so glad that you mentioned at the end about not all Teslas are equipt to support CCS1 adapters. A lot of people have been buying these adapters and finding out it doesn't work. There are DIY instructions online on how to swap out the charge port hardware to make it work, but it's risky. I believe the Tesla service center will also swap it for you but it's pretty expensive. Thanks again for the testing results!
Hey, Tom. I just drove my 2021 Model 3 SR+ from Sacramento CA to Louisville, KY. I drove thru CA, AZ, NM, TX, OK, MS, and KY. Having the base model means I visited 1 or 2 more SuperChargers each day. Average of 500 miles per day. Average stop of 25-30 min.
At no stop, in all those states, did I wait. Big city (LA area), small town, wide spot in the road. I drove up, backed in, plugged in and started charging. Two stops filled up while I was there, but the turnover seemed good. At one stop, there was one stall not working. Most of the time, if I wasn’t the only Tesla there, there were one or two others. Weekday, weekend, day, night… It made no difference.
The week Before, my wife drove her 2021 VW ID.4 PRO from Sacramento to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. We are talking some remote roads through remote areas (Google map it). Yet, we had no problems. All but one charger was EA, and the other (a ChargePoint in Kanab UT) worked perfectly.
In a few days, I am driving back to CA via a different route. I expect I’ll have similar results. Even in THE base model Tesla, a cross country trip is not only feasible… it’s quite a joy!
Keep up the great work, Tom.
Tom, you are always thorough and honest with your reviews, explaining the results and reasons for any variance that was unexpected. Couldn't ask for a fairer reviewer!!!
I find your numbers fascinating Tom. Thank you so much for your efforts!
As always, a no nonsense, no ego, very informative video. Thanks Tom.
This was very helpful information. Thanks.
Thank you for being so consistent and thorough. As far as I am concerned you are the authority on EV charging and its not even close. I bought my Wallbox charger a year ago on your recommendation and love it. This video as always was very informative and useful. I will likely be picking up one of these adapters
Great information and testing Tom, this is good news for Tesla owners who are capable of using CCS adapter. Having more available charging stations is a wonderful thing.
I
On a recent trip to Lake Tahoe, I used the charge adapter included with my 2021 Model Y and plugged into the 115V every time I was back at my Airbnb. This was sufficient for the entire week. No special charging plug or dryer access. Many people don’t realize that they don’t drive enough miles per day to require DC Fast charging.
I took delivery of my new Model Y on 10/31/21 and my car is not CCS compatible. I understand that this had to do with the chip shortage and my car would need a minor hardware upgrade in order to use the CCS adapter. So you can’t just go by build date, you have to check in the car’s software as Tom showed. Great video!
Did you get a discount because it was missing features?
@@stephenholland5930 No, presumably because this is not something that Tesla represented that my car would have when I ordered it.
This is awesome! Got a subscriber out of me.
I'm glad Electrify America is doing so well. Though I do kinda wish Tesla's connector had become the standard, because I think the connector itself is superior.
I do have a feeling those discrepancies are due to cooling the cable, and it looks like EA is doing a great job of it if that's the case.
This is very shocking in a good way! I've only even seen a handful of Electrify American chargers so far and many times they are new and not actually operational yet. Definitely want to get one of these adapters though just to have that extra option during our road trips.
Very interesting - did not expect that result! thank you for sharing.
Hi Tom, I like these types of vids, thank you!
What would be great:
- give us a TLDR. My takeaway was Electrify was a smidge better
What I didn't learn:
- cost differences?
- nav integration for TSLA or Ford?
I’ve been extremely happy with my CCS1 adapter. I was able to peak at 188kW on an EA station in Bristow, OK and it charged up my Model 3 super quick.
If your car can support it, I highly highly recommend it.
The "E.A." initials: what do they stand for in the UK? "Electrify Anglia?"
Here in South Africa, like most countries, our voltage is 220-260V. As a result we are able to have plug and play chargers. You plug on a normal wall socket, no installation.
this is probably the most detailed test I've found! thank you for your time and effort! VERY helpful!
Very informative! Gotta get one of these adapters. Unfortunately, I first need to upgrade my Model 3 to accept CCS charges. Bummer.
Send the bill to Elon.
Awesome tests Tom... Great stuff!
We do not have an EV yet, but I really appreciate your charging research. It will be very helpful for us when we get our first EV. Thanks Tom, Great Job again!
Nicely done. That's one thing most people don't understand. Tesla "superchargers" and Electrify America "chargers" are not actually chargers at all. They simply supply power to the car. The charger circuits are in the car.
That's not correct. They actually are chargers. They are DC fast chargers and they bypass the AC onboard charger and directly charge the battery. You are thinking about level 1 and level 2 AC charging. Those devices just supply power to the onboard charger which then sends the power to the battery. The chargers in this video are actually charging the vehicle by themselves.
The main disadvantage of charging at a V3 station is that the actual connector is small, and it heats up significantly. One channel provider wrapped a wet washcloth around the hose to vehicle connector, and claims faster charging as a result. Even if the charging cable on a V3 is actively cooled, the connector is not.
Tom, that was a great video! I had always thought that the Tesla V3 super changes were much better than everyone else.
There are V4 SuperChargers on the way... Who knows when.
Was waiting for this video! Excellent information thank you!
This is only the first step in Tesla opening up the charging network. Looking forward to plugging in my new Ioniq at a Supercharger with this reverse version of this adapter.
This is great! Just curious - Is there a reason why Tesla is not selling the Tesla-to-CCS1 adapter in the United States yet?
Not bad at all. Very nice curve. Almost as good as an EQS.
This is awesome. I don’t own an EV but follow the market pretty closely. Anyway, I have been wondering for a while now why Tesla owners don’t just hop over to the other networks when they are so backed up especially on holidays. This video confirms my suspicions - there is no reason! Maybe the adapter you’re talking about wasn’t available before. Hopefully this will help with upcoming holidays! Nothing like long lines at a supercharger to close people off to the idea of owning any EV.
@E S true, the infrastructure is shoddy at best. Again, strictly as an observer…currently not my problem. But by the time it is, I reckon it will be much better.
Excellent testing as usual, Tom. FYI- I have a 2020 Model S LR+ and recently bought the CCS1 adapter as my Model S, manufactured in February 2020 is compatible. With free SC, I only have the adapter as a backup for traveling where there are no Superchargers in range which is pretty rare these days. I did test it out and found the charging curve to be about the same as the V3. However, I don't run down to zero and charge to 100%. Usually 15% to 60% for long trips. I do understand your testing which is not how one would normally drive on a road trip. My 2+ year old Model S has a calculated range now of 387miles. When new it was 402 miles. I've been considering doing your cell balancing test at some point to see if that improves my calculated range. Some time if you can it would be great for a test on a Model S LR+.
This is a game changer! Makes out frequent road trips to LA even easier with the Model 3. Big amount of places to charge.
Another great video Tom, keep them coming.
Excluding the cost of the adapter, in California an EA subscription could save money as Tesla increased the rates at peak times.
There are also people who rent out their adapters. $5/day vs $400-500 purchase and import. I bought mine for a trip and now will rent it out in Canada. Many Tesla clubs rent out the CHAdeMO that will work on any Tesla.
Great video. Had similar results in my testing.
I think Tesla's charging curve has improved some since your initial V3 test too.
We'll find out soon
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Excited to see it.
Great information on finding CCS support in settings. I wonder if my X has it...
Also, sub'ed
Love these videos! I am an EV and data nerd so these are a good fix. We have a 2022 Model 3 LR with almost 17k miles on it in about 7 months. I was considering a road trips to some more remote places and the CCS adapter could come in handy. I have opted for something a little closer as I can’t be sure I would get the adapter in time from S Korea. I do wish Tesla would go ahead and release the adapter here in the US for the cars that are enabled (I checked and mine is). Before this I had an 2021 3 SR+ and several years ago I had a BMW i3 REx which got me addicted to EVs. Now I am trying to talk my wife into an Ioniq 5. That 800volt charging speed in Hi5 looks amazing but the lack of CCS in the Midsouth is still a big issue for us. Somebody tell EA they need a charger between Memphis and Birmingham on I22! I have filed 3 petitions but they seem to not understand that they are missing a key corridor connecting millions of people from the West through Midsouth down to the Deep South and Florida. Anyway appreciate your videos and charts as always. Super helpful!
Does the Tesla dash compensate for cable losses to try and indicate what is delivered from the charger (what you pay for)? If so the calculations may be a bit off because of the adapter. Also my guess is the extra energy was charging part of the pack that is unavailable to the user. It's pretty well known that Tesla limits the output from the battery pack using software.
🐢The tortoise beat the hare.🐇 Will be interesting to see the rematch. Great job.‼️
Just subscribed to your channel as my interest for an EV is increasing. I’ve watched dozens of videos and I’m embarrassed to say I still can’t absorb all the numbers and measurements, and what they mean. Because you seem to be the most comprehensive and thorough channel in terms of EV's, It would be incredible if you could do a video like 'EV's for beginners' going over what all the terms are, maybe comparing 3 or 4 car's ratings side by side, giving the highs and lows of what to look for in battery ratings, charging, the difference in a slow charging car like the Bolt VS. a EV6. Just when I think I know about EV's a new term is used. Some people refer to charging in Watts vs. kilowatts? Or is it Amps? Or Volts? Ugh! LOL.
Seems like I’m more confused than ever. I bet that type of video would be so helpful to us beginners. If not, thanks for doing what you do👍
Charging power is in kW. Battery capacity is in kWh. Consumption in the UK is in miles/kWh.
I took a trip last year (about 600km each way), and then repeated the same trip this year at about the same time of year, so ambient temperature similar. the supercharging stops where much shorter (like half?.) I think Tesla has been fine tuning their charging strategies, and that your new V3 test might turn out quite different.
Good point
Gotta love the exhaust pops in the beginning of the video. Sounded like a Hyundai Veloster N.
Good stuff as usual. As always, I appreciate the guidance you give to new EV owners.
Have the early 2020 Model 3 with no CCS support. Good video. Haven't really found the need for other chargers beyond superchargers, after 70k miles. Sold my Chademo adapter a year ago.
Fantastic. Every one should have an adapter. While most charge at home it's about getting those apartment living EV drivers charged. That's a huge market. And everyone that doesn't have a home has to go get charged. And no one wants to wait around to charge. Special if it's not covered Parking, no bathrooms and no snacks to buy while waiting. Plus i'd like to see all those other EVs. Like going to a car show only EV car show. We need a gas station NO A charging station.
Jonathan - have you seen the charging stations being deployed in the UK? Lots of covered chargers in one location, plus a lounge! They’re called Gridserve. Likely US versions - or similar - coming as EV sales pick up.
Thanks for the review I was looking at purchasing one of these. As far as the install of a charging station at home, it's not complicated at all. Took me less than 30 minutes to install a Tesla wall charger. It doesn't even need a GFCI breaker as Tesla has already Incorporated that into the charging station. Three wires, some conduit and just a little bit of an electrical knowledge will save you a lot of money. If somebody doesn't feel comfortable, definitely hire someone. But if you have a little bit of electrical common sense it's easy.
If you live in a apartment complex most don’t have charging stations. There have been 3 new apartments here in east side of Jefferson county ( Louisville) that were just built and none have charging stations
Tom. I do hope that Tesla will provide a way for CCS vehicles to utilize their network very soon before Teslas absorb the rather limited number of plugs available on the CCS network.
I do believe they will
The CCS network is growing pretty quickly.
I got my CCS adapter, I only will use it only as a backup to SuperChargers on road trips. But I'm still leery of all the other DCFC sites being FULLY OPERATIONAL that I can count on 4/7 365.
As Elon said "Best to install a TESLA wall connector before you get your vehicle" ... Fast Charging is for most folk ... currently ideal, that's more than enough, for a rest and a drink etc .... good insight video my US friend ... Green energy love from the UK !
If you plotted kWh vs time, instead of percent full vs time, it would largely compensate for the difference in capacity now vs a year ago. But it will be even more accurate to simply repeat the V3 charge test with the car as it is now, with a modest reduction in capacity.
This is good content, although I’m really looking forward to seeing how quickly my BMW i4 charges at a Tesla supercharger when the hardware is opened up to non-Teslas :)
Meh, the Tesla SC are often crowded with all the Tesla’s sold. Just be satisfied that you have a better assembled car, and move on. Not worth the effort IMHO.
@@thegreeneyej Most of the Tesla SC in the Midwest US are empty (or close to empty) most of the time. Also, in rural areas (where DCFC is almost non-existent) there are available Tesla SC stations just waiting to be used. It is time to open them up. Tesla would be crazy to give up that additional revenue.
Great video Tom. You mentioned about KWh delivered being higher on V3 vs CCS1. The reasons you state are logical. But there is one other potential factor. The heat loss might be higher on the V3 due to the higher charge rates (less charging efficiency).
Yeah, but it only charges at a higher rate than the CCS1 adapter for like 5 minutes, so that's not long enough to really have that much loss
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You would be surprised. (sorry long response but I think it's worth it) The reason the charge curve on the V3 dips below the CCS1 after hitting it's peak is because of thermal throttling. That heat is from charging losses. While a notable amount of loss is from capacitive and inductive losses at high charge speeds most of the loss will be resistive. Resistive loss is exponentially proportional to the charging current squared. You mention in your video that the CCS1 connector is rated 400A. But to hit that power level it appears to be allowing ~500A. Tesla V3 superchargers are pushing ~650A to hit 250KW. The resistive losses at 650A are roughly 69% higher than 500A and that's assuming that resistance stays equal (which it doesn't). At the higher amperage resistance would also increase due to the thermal coefficient of the materials used increasing the difference in losses even more. So in reality I would hypothesize that the resistive losses might actually be closer to 75% higher at 650A than 500A due to increased internal resistance. Now you also mention 5mins. This number is more significant that you know. I work in product development for a company that makes electrical heating appliances. 5 minutes is the rule of thumb for devices to heat soak under high current initial loads (and is often used in certification standards). This if often used for both in-rush (inductive) and start-up (resistive) current effects. I suspect that the Tesla Model 3 internal components are not actually sized to handle 650A. But can exceed amperage for about 5 minutes before components start to heat soak. This same effect I also believe is present on the Mustang Mach-E which also sees a charging spike to 150KW for about 5 minutes before falling off. I personally believe that the Model 3 charge rate is more for marketing purposes so that Tesla can allow it's customers to advocate a 250KW peak charge rate while if they decreased the peak charging current they could likely find a more optimal average balance.
My 2021 (sept 21 build) MYP doesn’t have the ability to use the CCS adapter. I would mention for folks to check before purchase. Tesla isn’t offering retrofits yet.
I do just that at the end of the video.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney my bad, I commented in the beginning. Thanks!
Odd as our MY we got in Sep 21 is ccs enabled. I wonder why some do while others don’t.
Super Great video 👍🏼
Hi, what software and/or hardware do you use to capture these charge curves?
Great video Tom, nice charts! Is it possible to find out if older Teslas can be retrofitted to accept the CCS1 adapter? And if so how difficult and costly it is?
Tesla did offer a kit for European Model S/X in order to be able to charge from a CCS2 station. As it uses the same protocol it should work also in the states, but I don’t think that Tesla will sell it to you.
The price, if I remember correctly, was about 150€/$.
There is no Official retrofit kit through Tesla at the Moment. But supposedly one on the way at some point. There is a DIY workaround though thanks to someone on TMC doing the leg work. It requires updating to the Gen 4 Charge port ECU $ 140.00 and a small harness adapter available on EBAY $84. CCS1 to Tesla adapter is $307ish from S.Korea. Lastly it requires reinstalling the current software or waiting for Tesla to push the next Software update. This is required for the New ECU to be recognized otherwise the car won’t charge. I am going through this process now on my 2018 M3p. I have all the parts, just waiting for the Software to update. You must install the ECU just before the software install for it to be recognized.
@@dennisschlieckau8723 Thanks for the info. Sounds way over my head though.
I hope Tesla will offer a retro fit for older cars to enable the adapter use.
15:25 This data seems to validate that Tesla owner's claims that he was actually able to travel across the country faster using the CCS1 adapter and Electrify America than he was able to do while using the Superchargers.
I'm that owner. Hi. :)
@@ryanhuber8629 Sweet! Thanks for posting your experiences!
@@ryanhuber8629 any concerns that Tesla may be doing this to preserve the battery (eg sneakily having more battery but not charging into it and then cycling cells like modern ssd storage does)? I've done the rough math on my M3 awd and it seems I don't have "access" to roughly 3 kwh
Please also provide the costs of EA vs Tesla!
Here in NJ, I pay $0.31 per kWh on Electrify America (and $4 per month) and $0.36 per kWh for Tesla Supercharging.
I wish they can put more charging stations in Pinole and Hercules California and Richmond
Thanks for another great video! Do you think Tesla will ever do a retrofit for pre 2020 model 3's, or possibly add the needed hardware to a special adaptor for "legacy" cars? I have an early 2020 Sr+ and it would seem ridiculous to change it just for CCS capability. Intend to keep my 2020 for a lot longer. Will keep my eyes on your channel with the hope that you will cover the event should Tesla offer CCS to us "legacy" owners. Thanks again for your great efforts in EV adoption, education and promotion!
Great! Now do the same test again with a CCS car, like a Bolt, once they open up the US superchargers to other cars. Like they’re planning.
What is the URL to order the CCS1 adapter for a Tesla?
Tesla isn't officially selling them in the US yet so you need to buy one from a reseller. They do sell them in Korea, so people are buying them and importing them for resale here.
Great video Tom, I still believe that the tesla supercharger is the best.
Reliable and everywhere.
This also has to do with teslas charging system in their cars, it's above the rest.
I think there are more variables here. What was the ambient temperature when you were charging? What was the temperature of the battery when you started the charge?
Both these variables will have an effect on the charging rate/time
so only the new tesla's can take CCS charging?? I'm glad I waited to buy one.
Just goes to show you how many variables go into this. Age, temp, cars, individual charger, what type of driving did you do before the test. All that for a 2-3% difference. What do you estimate the margin of error might be with all those variables in play
You should try the EVgo 350kw chargers. As long as I don't have another car sharing the charger, I'm getting the fastest charge compared to Tesla or EA.
A wet cloth on the V2 cable plug would be a test option to get the correct curve.
I used a wet rag (that was in my ice chest first) when I recorded that session.
Public charging networks need reciprocity agreements like cell phone networks did a long time ago. Travelers having to have an "account" on every one of them will just never work. At the very least an abstracted payment method like PayPal would help.
This x 1,000
Not necessarily true. EA and EVgo stations have credit card readers. So yes, you need a form of payment, but you don't need an account to use them.
That’s the way things work in Europe. You have CPO (Charge Point Operators) like EA and EMP (Electro Mobility Provider). With an account at one EMP you have access to many CPO, but still not everyone, and some EMPs have even constant kWh prices no mater where you charge.
@@JorgTheElder As long as that works great. But remember most are unattended so it's not easy to get help. Also, I expect chargers to be a target for criminals skimming cards because they are unattended.
Usually I try to charge to 50-60% before continuing if I can, it saves tons of time road tripping
Thank you, Tom!
I bought one and got some good speeds at the Baker, CA station. The only negitive was that a guy yelled at me to go use the Tesla stations. Some people will not like you charging with this thing.
Great data. I think this gives Tesla another reason to switch to CCS in North America eventually. Releasing the CCS1 adapter is a way for them to experiment.
Great video.But, as you said, to have a fair comparison you need to retest the V3 SuC charge curve now. Having said that, it looks to me as if the whole 250 kW trick is only a pure PR thing, as the car charges at least as fast if it stays below 180kW. On my opinion, the thermals of the battery limit the whole charging curve.
With the v2 charger, I don’t see any reason why the car should throttle as it does, I think that in this case some parts of the charger are the ones that throttle. If I remember well those v2s had a max rate of 120 kW at the beginning.
And a last point, I’ve heard that over here in Europe the M3 does only a max rate of 170-180kW on a non Tesla high power charger, but without knowing the truth light of the charging session, I thought that it would take longer on a non Tesla charger than on a v3. It seems that it shouldn’t be the case.
Thank you for the very informative videos. 👍
I'm doing the new test this week
Great video!
When all the stars align and you can find a 350 KW charger that works the EQS can charge 15-90% in 40 minutes.
Nice info. Did you actually use the Tesla onboard info in all situations for the graphs? Cause with EA you show the Charger info on screen.
The rate the Charger info gives is including the losses. Onboard info is battery input only.
Not that it is really important but isn't the EA chargers with membership cheaper than Tesla after the recent price increases?
Yes
I just started looking into EVs so I could be totally off, but perhaps it kept changing to add the extra battery life you get when you're driving and the battery charge indicates O%. I'm referring to the reserve that the car doesn't measure. Gr8 vid. 🚙 🇺🇸
Tom, have you tried this with the Ford Charge Station Pro yet?
Can you do a review on emporia ev charger thanks
Should do another v3 as charging curve could have changed in a year
Already did. Video soon
I have a 2018 Model 3 that does not support CCS according to the screen. That must mean that I cannot use this adapter? Tesla has not said if or how much it would cost to make my car CCS compatible.
Can you compare $ /kWh cost between Super Chargers and 3rd party chargers? I've typically seen Tesla cost a lot less than 3rd party.
My 2018 LR charges near 250kw until 20% then evenly tapers to be at 150kw at 50%. And thats in 100 degree weather. your car has an issue, overheating at the high charge rates
Too bad at some time in 2021 Tesla stopped putting in the CCS capability in the Model Y’s. I have October 2021 Model Y and it doesn’t have CCS enabled. Not sure if it’s something that can be fixed by software or if they at sometime would offer installation of the hardware. I have one vacation area I go where option for CCS 1 charging would provide a fast charging option.
Which brand CCS to Tesla adapter you are using ? Please post the link of the adapter you are using in this video.
Thank you
What about the amount of time you spend on payment processing on an EA charging station and having to switch stations when the charger is not functioning properly? And what percent of EA chargers are not working at each location? The drawback to Tesla charging stations is the wait times when they’re full, although I’ve never had to wait more than 10 minutes so far. I suspect those wait times grow longer as more Teslas are sold.
How do you get a Tesla to pre-condition the battery when heading for an EA charger?
Simple. Set the navigation to route you to a Supercharger, but ignore that and drive to an EA charger
Great video again Tom. Anyone know how to "trick" Tesla into preconditioning battery for EA charger?
Yeah, just set your navigation to a Supercharger but drive to the EA stations instead
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks for reply! I did do that when I could, but in Northern California I went to a EA charger that was not near a Supercharger. I did turn on defrost, and I seemed to get decent speeds. Don't know if that was a fluke or not.
I have heard Tesla’s recommendations for optimum battery life when possible operate battery between 20% and 90%. Many of us exceed those numbers. Since you have a lot of experience operating outside those limits on your Model 3, how much range have you lost after your real world testing.
That recommendation is about daily charging routines. Tesla's own advice says it's fine to go to 100% when you are travelling. If you fill to 100% and drive off immiediately, that is fine in terms of battery wear. It is just going to take a long time, so isn't efficient use of superchargers. What is bad for the battery is plugging it at home, and setting 100% so letting it sit and maintain that level for hours or days. For home charging the recommendation is less than 90%. When I don't need the range, my car's home charging limit is usually set around 70%, when I know I'm going on a trip, I up it to 90%, and maybe an hour before departure, I might set to 100%. As long as you are not going to leave above 90% for long periods or continuously, it's fine.
I think it is the same deal with
@@petersilva037 Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.
@@petersilva037 Those numbers above do not apply to Tesla's with LFP batteries which are happy to sit at 100% for weeks or more...
Now that the Tesla sc network is opening up for all EVs, what type of connectors will be there? The same as always or will they add the standard EV plug? Or will non Tesla owners need to get an adapter that's the reverse of the adapter you have in order to us the sc network? Do those adapters already exist?
February 18th UPDATE: Tesla's store now $ells the adapter for $175. It's rated up to 250KWH. Caveats: You must be a Tesla owner, and your car must be equipped with the Gen4 Charging computer from the factory. That leaves out most, if not all, Model 3'a manufactured prior to 2020. Retrofits will be available from Tesla - eventually The website says: Note: For vehicles requiring a retrofit, please check back in early 2023 for availability. I did that, and was told that the local service center does not yet have a date for the retrofit.
What about precondition of the battery. Did it precondition for the supervisor. Also the only way I could precondition for the CCS was to route to a nearby supercharger. That was just me testing.
You can set the navigation to route you to a supercharger, even if it's not close by and then just ignore the route and drive to the EA station
⛱ *Tom, what are your thoughts about owning a model Y which will sit in the driveway out in the hot sun down in NC ?* 💥 I am concerned about losing too many electrons to phantom draw.