Hell yes, especially since pickups are coming online. There is a huge difference between a Model 3, and a F150 Lightning. They are in a different vehicle class.
In my experience with a 2016 Model S, my battery degradation was greatest in the first 15K miles. I also read this elsewhere. So I think you are correct, the degradation is not linear.
Great video! I appreciate the level of detail and consistency that you provide. With EVGo expanding to 500 Pilot / Flying J in the next year or so, it would be great if you could include them in your cost comparison. In Georgia, EA is .32 per minute and EVGo is .30. In Florida (& New Jersey) EA is .43 per kWh and EVGo is .35 per minute. Looks like you get about 42 kWh (60% of 70 kWh) at 20 minutes so EA costs $18.06 (42 x .43) while EVGo is $7.00 (20 x .35). At some point I would expect EVGo to adopt a per kWh pricing model but, for now, the price advantage seems to be with them.
I just did a cross country trip from Colorado to Virginia and did not have any problems at EA stations. Maybe they are getting better or I was just lucky.
This is a great video. I think the big news is how impressive the CCS1 adapter is. A few extra minutes at the charger is hardly noticeable, so at that point it would really come down to price for me. As you alluded to at the end of the video, depending on the Supercharger station charging model and time of day, it might actually be significantly cheaper to go to EA!
Very nice charts! That CCS adapter is a very interesting proposition, but I looked pretty carefully for areas that I might conceivably travel that had really fast DC chargers from Electrify America or others, but that had no Superchargers in the area, and really couldn’t find any examples. This includes the entirety of New Jersey. (The opposite however is true in many cases…) So, little or no good reason to have it along.
But like he mentioned at the end of the video, depending on time of day, EA could be significantly cheaper. Having the adapter would allow you to shop around. Though at $300 bucks it might take a while to recoup that. There is also the benefit of skipping the queue if the supercharger station is full.
I like your new Time to Add Driving Range. The 2 or 3 minutes for 200 miles of the CCS over the V3 is probably not a big deal to the individual driver BUT to the total usage of fast chargers this is significant. The faster you can move individual cars through the charging stalls means better utilization and higher availability per unit of charging stalls.
glad to see this, as the Aptera is talking of going with Tesla charger and I want to have the option for CCS1 adapter. and with a 50kW the superfast chargers don't matter. The time for miles is the issue.
Good video Tom, thanks. However the Harumio folks are sold out of adapters and even cancelled my order a week after I placed it. Fingers crossed that Tesla will sell the adapters in the U.S. soon.
Wow, a 250 kW rate means the Tesla V3 connector is doing around 700 amps! Impressive. CCS looks like it is sitting at the 500A current limit up to 30%. I wish other EV companies could provide better smooth charging curves like this without any sudden drops in power.
Great idea by plotting out the data on two different charts since each tells a different story. Note to charging at home VS Supercharger/EVgo/EA -- I'm probably an outlier but Pacific Gas and Electric Co for home charging is more expensive than Supercharging --- 33cents/kWh off-peak (8PM-5PM WkDay, all day WkEnd) versus 29cents/kWh off-peak/ and 59cents/kWh on-peak at Tesla SuperCharger (24-hr 29cents/kWh recently at a local Supercharger)
When you charged with the EA charger, how many kWh did the charger say it had delivered at the end of the charge? You were showing us the Tesla in-car display, which I believe shows just usable energy added to the battery and therefore omits most/all of the charging losses.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks for the quick reply! So when you charge with the EA charger, you pay for 75 kWh. With the Tesla charge session, did you pay for 69 kWh, or were you billed for more than that?
Tesla superchargers charge for total energy delivered, not added to battery. So same as EA. It used to be energy added to battery, but Tesla changed the billing policy recently.
@@kishkaru21 Thanks. It's my understanding that Tesla chargers do not have a display, and the car only shows energy added to the battery. So how do you know how much energy the charger has delivered? Does the Tesla app show you?
Dang, should have bought one of those a couple months ago when they were available. Could use one when I travel to the northern half of rural MN during winter. I'll take 50kW options over none. 120v lamp post plugs don't cut it.
I ordered mine July 6. They were out of stock back then and returned my money. Follow the link from "State of Charge" and you will find a provision to be notified when it's back in stock.
Sir Thomas Hello Tom, First, I think you do a great job with your videos and your appearances with Alex. My R1S delivery window is the end of this year. I'm thinking about a Rivian wall charger. However, my garage is a couple hundred feet from my condo and there is no WiFi at the garage. 1. Is there anyway I can get OTA updates for the charger? 2. Is the Rivian the best charger for the R1S? Thank you for your assistance, Tom
as always Tom, great info, wow had Tesla had the CCS adapter last year I would have purchased a Tesla Model Y Long range (my long highway trips have had poor Tesla networks and the CADeMo adaptor is too slow) , but at the new pricing and current delivery, I'll wait for my super fast charging Iconic 5!
I got my CCS1 adapter, but am looking forward to Tesla’s recently announced V4 chargers. Sadly since I got mine back in June and they are no longer available. I wonder if Tesla pulled the plug on the SK CCS1 adapter as they get ready to open up the NA SCer network to non- Tesla’s later this year. Having said that I use Tesla’s network when traveling as it’s so easy and seamless. It does just work.
With the inevitable inconvenient moments that will come with owning that make EV this would definitely be a tool I would have stashed in the car and probably would carry forward to any other cars I would buy from that same manufacture as my back up or it’s more convenient or it saves me waiting time if there’s a Q. Makes a guy wanna retest the pack in another two months before we get out of the warm months of the year to see what is really going on with the pack. Nice job🎯💯
Tom I have a charging question or two. I have a Kia EV6 (love it) my Kia connect apt talks about charging and says it’s good for the battery to be charged to 100 percent at least once a month, what’s your take on this and if so should you use some charge percentage immediately after charging to 100 percent, one more thing should I plug in my level two adapter into the outlet first and then into the car and reverse that after charging. Great job on all your video’s especially when working with Alex.
I was wondering if you could do a video -or just a quick reply in the comments- on why Tesla chargers are so much slimmer than other organizations' chargers and where the hell they hide the auxiliary equipment, since I don't often see fenced-in cabinets around the Tesla stations.
ok Tom how about EA 150KW, I noticed that Ionic 5 can charge up to 175KW due to the high voltage, I believe Tesla may have a higher base voltage than other normal 400Volt battery, we have a ton of these in Canada and likely in the USA. This may work well especially in CA where Tesla networks are overloaded during weekends and holidays!
I’ve charged my Tesla on 150kw EA stations but several times but never got more than 120kw… but lowest soc was just under 40%. Still seems kind of low though imo.
It depends very much where you live if charging at home is cheaper. In San Jose CA, I'm using fixed rate charging (TOU charging would according to PG&E save me $30/year. I did not find that sufficient to make me change). PG&E charges me $0.39468 per KWH, but they have a "Energy Commission Surcharge" of %0.12871 per KWH for a total of $0.5234 per KWH. My last supercharging session was $0.46 according to the app. It is cheaper for me to supercharge than to charge at home.
It shows that if you are often on the road or you must rely on public charging it is much better to have one of those than having to queue on a supercharger. BTW, that adapter also works at EVGo stations and any other CCS public station. One question, although not really related to the video. Is the Rivian charging network available to any car, or is it an exclusive network?
I am sorry, but can you help me to find the EA charging stations in Leavenworth Kansas? I can find Tesla and Charge Point stations, but not Electrify America. They say that competition is good for both the consumers and the businesses, so please offer these companies some competition. Btw, there are absolutely no charging stations in Atchison Kansas, the birthplace of Amelia Earhart. This is a tourist destination without any charging stations whatsoever. Somebody needs to hop on that opportunity.
Amazing! Great thanks! Can you do also a new video about ioniq5 state of charge in summer weather? Please? And also an ev6? Thanks again sir! Great videos!!
One would expect the Tesla supercharger to be faster since it does not have to go through an adapter. It will be nice to compare when Tesla puts in the CCS charging plug on their superchargers how it companies with the adapter.
Always love your on point info. The degradation will balance out. I'm sure. As you said. Just the first year seems a drop. Can you shed some light on V3 charging issues on several EV on the open EU stalls? Cause when USA opens too it might be worth knowing what's the issue. I can use V2 without issue V3 just not. For power I don't need V3 but many sites are now V3 only, here. Might be worth for your EU audience 😃 I Sint like miles added figures. Cause that is way to dependent on the consumption with every driver being different.
I have a feeling there's to many unaddressed variables here. Temperature of the pack changes by the ambient temp of the environment as all as how long the car had to prewarm the pack before charging on the drive to. There's also things like accessory usage, AC use, screen brightness etc, updates downloading, the car using more energy to run itself beyond charging the car. Getting down to 0 is also questionable because tesla frequently holds back charge and this is a black box, who knows if this reserve dynamically adjusts at all, who knows if the 100% mark dynamically adjusts as all depending on environmental temps etc.. it's hard to do a comparison with all the variables in the system
This is Michael. Tom, help me out here. It would be good if you would mention whether these connectors are male or female and on what side. From this test the ccs1 adapter is female with an outgoing male in order to connect to the female input on the car. Here's what I'm wondering. I currently have a Tesla Model 3 and a charging station at home. But I'm thinking of getting a Kia EV6 that does use ccs1 or j1772. How can I connect my Tesla charging station at home with a new Kia? Is my only option a j1772 adapter? Will the Tesla tap mini that you showed in your other RUclips work? A lot of people are going to be wondering about this information in the future with Mercedes, audi, kia, Hyundai, ford, etc all coming out with vehicles that they might want to switch to but they already have the Tesla charger
I can't wait for the day and hope I see it in my lifetime, when we won't have to think about all this battery stuff. Where batteries don't degrade so much over time. Right now my December 2018 Model 3 with only 20k miles dropped from the rated 310 miles down to 280 miles. I know many say it's normal and not a big deal but to me it means I have to stop to charge more often on trips. ICE vehicles just don't have that much range loss in less than 4 years and 20k miles. This is why I believe higher EV ranges of 400 or even 500 miles are needed on base models, so as the batteries age they still have decent range.
What if you include the time spent at the EA kiosk, accessing your account, waiting for approval, handshake time, etc… compared to the much faster plug and charge on the Supercharger? My wife has a 2021 VW ID.4 PRO that we used on a 1500 mile road trip a couple weeks ago. (It does have the 3years of free unlimited EA charging.) The vehicle performed flawlessly, and we only had one troublesome charging session (we did finally get the car charged). Otherwise, EA worked well. (We did have one ChargePoint session on the trip, as there were no EA stations anywhere near Kanab UT.) But… the interface between user, vehicle, and the charger was clunky, sometimes requiring unplugging and replugging, and waiting. There were also times in the bright sunlight where it was very difficult to read the screen on the EA stations. All that adds real time to charging. We’re talking a few minutes. Not a big deal. But a couple of rather frustrating experiences at EA. Not so at Tesla’s Superchargers.
The difference was abour 20 to 25 seconds longer on the EA station to authenticate. I use EA chargers 2-3 times per week and it usually connects and begins charging in less than 30 seconds.
Appears the AMP is higher in a Tesla than EA? Is there an EVGo which can output higher AMPS and would that make the graphs match up better with the V3?
I can see a issue if Tesla owners continue to use EA stations instead of their own chargers because EA is “cheaper.” We typically have 3-4 stations to service all of the brands on the road, while Tesla has 20-30 stations nearby for them only. I own a Taycan GTS and sometimes all of the EA chargers are filled with Teslas while they have open V3 chargers 50 yards away in the same parking lot. Sucks.
Do you CANbus monitor your pack temp before entering these tests for parity? These are constant current/constant voltage charging methods. Any reduction you see prior to that switching point (about 85% displayed SOC) means it’s completely being controlled by thermal management. This makes the starting temp (and ambient temp) a big factor.
It'd be interesting to compare the "speed of repair" of those out of service Tesla SuC stalls. How closely can you monitor that? Is the site nearby so you can give us an update? Curious minds want to know! Good data! Thank you Tom.
I have an EA station very close to my house and it’s free. But I hesitate to use it, because I have read fast charging too often, will damage the car’s battery. Is this accurate? Btw I am big fan, and thanks for great videos
This doesn’t mean that 350kW station slower than supercharger as it can only reach the maximum peak output of 250kW which it did between the 10-20 min and dropped down. Maybe the electrified station software controls the throttle limit and not push more power? With 350kW and if it runs with peak output, it should be faster as others have compared on 350kW stations.
You have the other comparison on Lucid on Electrified station and it did reach 350kW peak output. This could be Tesla game on its software that it sees it’s not supercharger station, it drops down peak output to make other competitors look bad…
Thanks for calling out the myth that everything about the tesla charger network is perfect for balance. This is how it should be, native charging should be better than using an adaptor
Very informative video! Question. My 2020 model 3 says the CCS hardware is not installed, is that something Tesla would do now or is there no news on that yet?
There is no official news yet. Some people have done it themselves but for a 2020 it requires some wiring adjustments, it's not just a new charge port controller. Best to wait for Tesla to offer it.
If the degradation was linear then you'd easily end up being eligible, under Tesla's warranty, to get a battery replacement. "8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention"
I'd get a CCS adapter.. but they're $1500 currently.... I'd spend my life trying to earn that back.. and I'd need an EA subscription too. Doesnt really make sense currently.
Great video as always. Do you know when Tesla will be selling the CCS adapter in North America? I know it can be purchased online from a N. Korea company but curious when Tesla will have it on their website?
when will electrify america fix the 40 percent of their station that don't work. It is extremely frustating to get to a station in need of a charge and it doesn't work. what good is it if the add chargers but they don't work...Mike Bell
Hi Tom, I think what you and a lot of people are missing is that if someone buys a salvage Tesla, they can not use super chargers. The only option is to get the CCS ECU kit. That is the only way to use the car for long trips.
Anyone travelling in Canada should definitely consider it. Plenty of places with only ccs. Ccs has 8x the sites as superchargers in Canada (3x in the US) and is the only options for many northern and maritime locations.
Are the charts of the charging curves available for view anywhere? I would love to have access to one as a general reference for charging my 2022 MYLR. I'm still new to Tesla and don't know always when I'm getting appropriate charging speeds for the state of charge.
I've had my model y performance for 2.5 years and 30k miles, it has not dropped 1kw. It's still the same from day 1 because I take care of the battery by not overcharging or undercharging. That may be the reason why you lost your capacity, I'm sure it's not the case with every car. I'm sure because of your charging cycles and making these videos it's taken a toll on your battery. We should be making videos on how to take care of the batteries. There's no dought tesla superchargers will always be faster, they also get updated unlike ccs I'm pretty sure there's no updates with those.
Looks like That site started refunding orders placed in late June. The adapter is available on the So. Korea Tesla site. Looks like Tesla has locked down the sites supply.
I've never head of that, and it would make no sense if they did. This site is only about two years old and gets a lot of use, just not late at night when I was there.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney if it gets lots of use then it’s not that. But it’s true in some chargers in the west. Or perhaps they are less inclined to fix a problem on a small location
The vehicle knows the state of charge and relays that information to the DC fast charging station. The vehicle also dictates the power it receives in conjunction with the power the charging station is offering it. There are DC fast chargers that have many different power levels, 350 kW being the most powerful. Not all DC fast charge stations can deliver 350 kW.
Tesla supercharger prices in California have been insane, during peak times i only charge on EA stations at 0.31 cents a kW instead of Tesla's 0.56 cents a kW. If i charge after 10pm I will switch to Tesla (0.19 cents a kW) due to better pricing at night.
Can CCS support ( CCS charge hardware ) be installed for older Model3 cars ( which do not have this support) ? As in would Tesla service do this installation?
For a few months, in 2021, Tesla stopped equipping the cars with the CCS1 hardware due to supply shortages, then they resumed including it. Your car must have been made in the months when they stopped including it.
I've seen other charging videos and it appears EA 350kw are not all treated the same. Has this EA charger been able to provide the full power to other vehicles or has it been similar?
Most EA stations can indeed deliver the full 500-amps they are rated at. There are some exceptions, but the vast majority now all deliver up to 350 kW.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney have you been able to get that out of the ea charger that you did your testing on? I’m just curious since that could cause the difference in charging rates and could potentially get the same charging rates if it can give the full 250kw out of the 350. Granted, what your test does provides more real world test vs optimal chargers.
Based on the data he showed, the math works out to about 500A during the flat section of the charge curve. The Supercharger must have been supplying about 700A at its peak.
Why doesn't electrify America offer tesla connections like evgo does? Seems to me you'd want to poach those customers. Their rates are very competitive unlike the ungodly hours like superchargers are doing. Multiple time and rate changes just in 2022 alone
Well done. So if Tesla and others are raising charge prices and it’s on par with gas , why spend 70 k for electric? Just buy gas car for 50 and a 20k gas card . And drive for the life of the car
This was my question also. I don't know if you want to call it boot time or what, but would be interesting to know how much time it takes from closing the driver door to electrons actually being delivered to the car. It may not be significant if you are already setup in the EA network or other network. Just curious.
i bet if you go back to that tesla charger today all the chargers are working. same cant be said of EA. out of spec reviews has shown multiple EA chargers that are broken and have been for more than a year.
Watch the video. I see by me in NJ/PA/DE/MD areas the recent cost increases bring the price of SC up to the 0.40 -0.44 per kWh now. They used to be in the 0.30 range.
As you said, first year capacity loss is larger and then less. I'm guessing your M3 had a hard life then, with many fast charging sessions? And...Tesla SC non operating 😲 Somebody notify Zach and Jesse! Oh, you said in the video you 95% home charge...never mind
Tom, I don't know who else to ask this and Google searches seem to all contradict each other. Why has the charging industry agreed to such a high per-kWh rate? It was originally in the 15-25 cent rate and now EA, Blink and Tesla have all gone to almost 50 cents a kWh; that doesn't make it "cheaper" than gas by a long shot. Should those of us who road trip get "punished" for using a fast charger?
You're not being punished, IMO. I prefer to take the angle that I'm getting a discount when I charge at home because I'm cutting out the middleman, rather than saying I'm paying extra with public charging. These companies (EA, ChargePoint, Blink, EVgo, etc) have to lay out hundreds of thousands of dollars to install the DC fast chargers, then have insurance, pay to repair them when they break, fix vandalism problems, pay enormous demand charges, etc. All of that costs thousands of dollars per site, per month. If they don't charge more than what the electricity costs them, how do they pay for all that? Personally, I think the pricing is pretty fair, when you consider all of the costs that go into installing and maintaining these sites.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally someone that uses 70mph range test range vs charging time. 200 mile in 18 min. Lets start doing this for all models. Keep up the great work.
Hell yes, especially since pickups are coming online. There is a huge difference between a Model 3, and a F150 Lightning. They are in a different vehicle class.
In my experience with a 2016 Model S, my battery degradation was greatest in the first 15K miles. I also read this elsewhere. So I think you are correct, the degradation is not linear.
Great video! I appreciate the level of detail and consistency that you provide.
With EVGo expanding to 500 Pilot / Flying J in the next year or so, it would be great if you could include them in your cost comparison. In Georgia, EA is .32 per minute and EVGo is .30. In Florida (& New Jersey) EA is .43 per kWh and EVGo is .35 per minute. Looks like you get about 42 kWh (60% of 70 kWh) at 20 minutes so EA costs $18.06 (42 x .43) while EVGo is $7.00 (20 x .35). At some point I would expect EVGo to adopt a per kWh pricing model but, for now, the price advantage seems to be with them.
Great test Tom, the adapter is a good addition for the EV road warrior.
I hope in a few years we look back at these charging comparisons and laugh at how long people used to stay at charging stations!
love to no BS approach to very useful information. We purchased the CCS adaptor. Thanks Tom.
Tom, thanks for adding the cost detail and I look forward to the follow-up.
I am going to have to double subscribe form all the content on charger pricing you will have coming up!
Tom, your Time To Add Range his how all EVs should be compared! Not 10-80% charge time! Thanks again
I think the challenge for EA is finding a charger that actually works...
I just did a cross country trip from Colorado to Virginia and did not have any problems at EA stations. Maybe they are getting better or I was just lucky.
To say CCS is an ungainly HUGE klutz of a connector compared to the Tesla connector is an understatement.
This is a great video. I think the big news is how impressive the CCS1 adapter is. A few extra minutes at the charger is hardly noticeable, so at that point it would really come down to price for me. As you alluded to at the end of the video, depending on the Supercharger station charging model and time of day, it might actually be significantly cheaper to go to EA!
Very nice charts!
That CCS adapter is a very interesting proposition, but I looked pretty carefully for areas that I might conceivably travel that had really fast DC chargers from Electrify America or others, but that had no Superchargers in the area, and really couldn’t find any examples. This includes the entirety of New Jersey. (The opposite however is true in many cases…) So, little or no good reason to have it along.
But like he mentioned at the end of the video, depending on time of day, EA could be significantly cheaper. Having the adapter would allow you to shop around. Though at $300 bucks it might take a while to recoup that. There is also the benefit of skipping the queue if the supercharger station is full.
I am really surprised that the adapter costs so much. Also, in my area of PA, EA is 3x more expensive than supercharger Network. Criminal really.
Another great informative video by Tom. Tom is now the host of 1.5 YT channels! Guess which is the 0.5 channel! 😂
I like your new Time to Add Driving Range. The 2 or 3 minutes for 200 miles of the CCS over the V3 is probably not a big deal to the individual driver BUT to the total usage of fast chargers this is significant. The faster you can move individual cars through the charging stalls means better utilization and higher availability per unit of charging stalls.
I'm not an EV driver, Tesla or otherwise, and appreciate your point about Tesla charging stations have a fair number of disabled chargers as well.
Very interesting comparison video... great job Tom! Will be eagerly anticipating the upcoming 'costing' video.
glad to see this, as the Aptera is talking of going with Tesla charger and I want to have the option for CCS1 adapter. and with a 50kW the superfast chargers don't matter. The time for miles is the issue.
Awesome information!! Thanks, I see “Emporia 48amps” on your whiteboard, is that an up video? I’ve been waiting 😁
I appreciate your thorough and fair work and explanations.
Good video Tom, thanks. However the Harumio folks are sold out of adapters and even cancelled my order a week after I placed it. Fingers crossed that Tesla will sell the adapters in the U.S. soon.
Sorry to hear that. I just ordered another one about 2 weeks ago and received it. I'll update the description in the video
Wow, a 250 kW rate means the Tesla V3 connector is doing around 700 amps! Impressive. CCS looks like it is sitting at the 500A current limit up to 30%. I wish other EV companies could provide better smooth charging curves like this without any sudden drops in power.
Great idea by plotting out the data on two different charts since each tells a different story. Note to charging at home VS Supercharger/EVgo/EA -- I'm probably an outlier but Pacific Gas and Electric Co for home charging is more expensive than Supercharging --- 33cents/kWh off-peak (8PM-5PM WkDay, all day WkEnd) versus 29cents/kWh off-peak/ and 59cents/kWh on-peak at Tesla SuperCharger (24-hr 29cents/kWh recently at a local Supercharger)
So helpful. Thank you
When you charged with the EA charger, how many kWh did the charger say it had delivered at the end of the charge? You were showing us the Tesla in-car display, which I believe shows just usable energy added to the battery and therefore omits most/all of the charging losses.
The EA station showed 75 kWh and the car 70 kWh
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks for the quick reply! So when you charge with the EA charger, you pay for 75 kWh. With the Tesla charge session, did you pay for 69 kWh, or were you billed for more than that?
Tesla superchargers charge for total energy delivered, not added to battery. So same as EA.
It used to be energy added to battery, but Tesla changed the billing policy recently.
@@kishkaru21 Thanks. It's my understanding that Tesla chargers do not have a display, and the car only shows energy added to the battery. So how do you know how much energy the charger has delivered? Does the Tesla app show you?
@@harrydymond4488 Tesla's website (once you log in to your account) shows charging history, including a PDF invoice of each charging session.
Thanks Tom always so informative!
Dang, should have bought one of those a couple months ago when they were available. Could use one when I travel to the northern half of rural MN during winter.
I'll take 50kW options over none. 120v lamp post plugs don't cut it.
I ordered mine July 6. They were out of stock back then and returned my money. Follow the link from "State of Charge" and you will find a provision to be notified when it's back in stock.
Sir Thomas
Hello Tom,
First, I think you do a great job with your videos and your appearances with Alex.
My R1S delivery window is the end of this year. I'm thinking about a Rivian wall charger. However, my garage is a couple hundred feet from my condo and there is no WiFi at the garage.
1. Is there anyway I can get OTA updates for the charger?
2. Is the Rivian the best charger for the R1S?
Thank you for your assistance,
Tom
as always Tom, great info, wow had Tesla had the CCS adapter last year I would have purchased a Tesla Model Y Long range (my long highway trips have had poor Tesla networks and the CADeMo adaptor is too slow) , but at the new pricing and current delivery, I'll wait for my super fast charging Iconic 5!
I got my CCS1 adapter, but am looking forward to Tesla’s recently announced V4 chargers. Sadly since I got mine back in June and they are no longer available. I wonder if Tesla pulled the plug on the SK CCS1 adapter as they get ready to open up the NA SCer network to non- Tesla’s later this year. Having said that I use Tesla’s network when traveling as it’s so easy and seamless. It does just work.
With the inevitable inconvenient moments that will come with owning that make EV this would definitely be a tool I would have stashed in the car and probably would carry forward to any other cars I would buy from that same manufacture as my back up or it’s more convenient or it saves me waiting time if there’s a Q. Makes a guy wanna retest the pack in another two months before we get out of the warm months of the year to see what is really going on with the pack. Nice job🎯💯
Tom I have a charging question or two. I have a Kia EV6 (love it) my Kia connect apt talks about charging and says it’s good for the battery to be charged to 100 percent at least once a month, what’s your take on this and if so should you use some charge percentage immediately after charging to 100 percent, one more thing should I plug in my level two adapter into the outlet first and then into the car and reverse that after charging. Great job on all your video’s especially when working with Alex.
I was wondering if you could do a video -or just a quick reply in the comments- on why Tesla chargers are so much slimmer than other organizations' chargers and where the hell they hide the auxiliary equipment, since I don't often see fenced-in cabinets around the Tesla stations.
ok Tom how about EA 150KW, I noticed that Ionic 5 can charge up to 175KW due to the high voltage, I believe Tesla may have a higher base voltage than other normal 400Volt battery, we have a ton of these in Canada and likely in the USA. This may work well especially in CA where Tesla networks are overloaded during weekends and holidays!
I’ve charged my Tesla on 150kw EA stations but several times but never got more than 120kw… but lowest soc was just under 40%. Still seems kind of low though imo.
It depends very much where you live if charging at home is cheaper. In San Jose CA, I'm using fixed rate charging (TOU charging would according to PG&E save me $30/year. I did not find that sufficient to make me change).
PG&E charges me $0.39468 per KWH, but they have a "Energy Commission Surcharge" of %0.12871 per KWH for a total of $0.5234 per KWH. My last supercharging session was $0.46 according to the app.
It is cheaper for me to supercharge than to charge at home.
Great video
Love your videos. I was just thinking about cost per mile, on different chargers. Given how small a difference there is in the.
It shows that if you are often on the road or you must rely on public charging it is much better to have one of those than having to queue on a supercharger. BTW, that adapter also works at EVGo stations and any other CCS public station.
One question, although not really related to the video. Is the Rivian charging network available to any car, or is it an exclusive network?
I am sorry, but can you help me to find the EA charging stations in Leavenworth Kansas? I can find Tesla and Charge Point stations, but not Electrify America. They say that competition is good for both the consumers and the businesses, so please offer these companies some competition. Btw, there are absolutely no charging stations in Atchison Kansas, the birthplace of Amelia Earhart. This is a tourist destination without any charging stations whatsoever. Somebody needs to hop on that opportunity.
There are lots of charging holes in the flyover states. Look at SW Kansas and south central Missouri.
Excellent Data! Thanks.
Can you do a comparison without preconditioning the battery
Amazing! Great thanks!
Can you do also a new video about ioniq5 state of charge in summer weather? Please? And also an ev6? Thanks again sir! Great videos!!
I've already done the EV6, which should be the same. That video should be ready in a week or two.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Great!
One would expect the Tesla supercharger to be faster since it does not have to go through an adapter. It will be nice to compare when Tesla puts in the CCS charging plug on their superchargers how it companies with the adapter.
Always love your on point info. The degradation will balance out. I'm sure. As you said. Just the first year seems a drop.
Can you shed some light on V3 charging issues on several EV on the open EU stalls?
Cause when USA opens too it might be worth knowing what's the issue.
I can use V2 without issue V3 just not.
For power I don't need V3 but many sites are now V3 only, here.
Might be worth for your EU audience 😃
I Sint like miles added figures. Cause that is way to dependent on the consumption with every driver being different.
I have a feeling there's to many unaddressed variables here.
Temperature of the pack changes by the ambient temp of the environment as all as how long the car had to prewarm the pack before charging on the drive to.
There's also things like accessory usage, AC use, screen brightness etc, updates downloading, the car using more energy to run itself beyond charging the car.
Getting down to 0 is also questionable because tesla frequently holds back charge and this is a black box, who knows if this reserve dynamically adjusts at all, who knows if the 100% mark dynamically adjusts as all depending on environmental temps etc.. it's hard to do a comparison with all the variables in the system
This is Michael. Tom, help me out here. It would be good if you would mention whether these connectors are male or female and on what side. From this test the ccs1 adapter is female with an outgoing male in order to connect to the female input on the car.
Here's what I'm wondering. I currently have a Tesla Model 3 and a charging station at home. But I'm thinking of getting a Kia EV6 that does use ccs1 or j1772. How can I connect my Tesla charging station at home with a new Kia? Is my only option a j1772 adapter? Will the Tesla tap mini that you showed in your other RUclips work?
A lot of people are going to be wondering about this information in the future with Mercedes, audi, kia, Hyundai, ford, etc all coming out with vehicles that they might want to switch to but they already have the Tesla charger
I can't wait for the day and hope I see it in my lifetime, when we won't have to think about all this battery stuff. Where batteries don't degrade so much over time. Right now my December 2018 Model 3 with only 20k miles dropped from the rated 310 miles down to 280 miles. I know many say it's normal and not a big deal but to me it means I have to stop to charge more often on trips. ICE vehicles just don't have that much range loss in less than 4 years and 20k miles. This is why I believe higher EV ranges of 400 or even 500 miles are needed on base models, so as the batteries age they still have decent range.
Where’s the new video on charging costs?
What if you include the time spent at the EA kiosk, accessing your account, waiting for approval, handshake time, etc… compared to the much faster plug and charge on the Supercharger?
My wife has a 2021 VW ID.4 PRO that we used on a 1500 mile road trip a couple weeks ago. (It does have the 3years of free unlimited EA charging.)
The vehicle performed flawlessly, and we only had one troublesome charging session (we did finally get the car charged). Otherwise, EA worked well. (We did have one ChargePoint session on the trip, as there were no EA stations anywhere near Kanab UT.)
But… the interface between user, vehicle, and the charger was clunky, sometimes requiring unplugging and replugging, and waiting.
There were also times in the bright sunlight where it was very difficult to read the screen on the EA stations. All that adds real time to charging.
We’re talking a few minutes. Not a big deal. But a couple of rather frustrating experiences at EA.
Not so at Tesla’s Superchargers.
The difference was abour 20 to 25 seconds longer on the EA station to authenticate. I use EA chargers 2-3 times per week and it usually connects and begins charging in less than 30 seconds.
Appears the AMP is higher in a Tesla than EA? Is there an EVGo which can output higher AMPS and would that make the graphs match up better with the V3?
There are no EVgo stations in all of NJ that can deliver more amps than the EA stations here.
I can see a issue if Tesla owners continue to use EA stations instead of their own chargers because EA is “cheaper.” We typically have 3-4 stations to service all of the brands on the road, while Tesla has 20-30 stations nearby for them only. I own a Taycan GTS and sometimes all of the EA chargers are filled with Teslas while they have open V3 chargers 50 yards away in the same parking lot. Sucks.
Do you CANbus monitor your pack temp before entering these tests for parity? These are constant current/constant voltage charging methods. Any reduction you see prior to that switching point (about 85% displayed SOC) means it’s completely being controlled by thermal management. This makes the starting temp (and ambient temp) a big factor.
I noticed after the initial charge the electrify America was putting out more power. Would the race be the same if yo started at 20% charge?
Good report, thanks. Please position your microphone as close as possible to your mouth to minimize the room reflected sound.
It'd be interesting to compare the "speed of repair" of those out of service Tesla SuC stalls. How closely can you monitor that? Is the site nearby so you can give us an update? Curious minds want to know!
Good data! Thank you Tom.
I have an EA station very close to my house and it’s free. But I hesitate to use it, because I have read fast charging too often, will damage the car’s battery. Is this accurate? Btw I am big fan, and thanks for great videos
This doesn’t mean that 350kW station slower than supercharger as it can only reach the maximum peak output of 250kW which it did between the 10-20 min and dropped down. Maybe the electrified station software controls the throttle limit and not push more power? With 350kW and if it runs with peak output, it should be faster as others have compared on 350kW stations.
You have the other comparison on Lucid on Electrified station and it did reach 350kW peak output. This could be Tesla game on its software that it sees it’s not supercharger station, it drops down peak output to make other competitors look bad…
Great job, thanks.
Thanks for calling out the myth that everything about the tesla charger network is perfect for balance. This is how it should be, native charging should be better than using an adaptor
Very informative video! Question. My 2020 model 3 says the CCS hardware is not installed, is that something Tesla would do now or is there no news on that yet?
There is no official news yet. Some people have done it themselves but for a 2020 it requires some wiring adjustments, it's not just a new charge port controller. Best to wait for Tesla to offer it.
If the degradation was linear then you'd easily end up being eligible, under Tesla's warranty, to get a battery replacement.
"8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention"
I'd get a CCS adapter.. but they're $1500 currently.... I'd spend my life trying to earn that back.. and I'd need an EA subscription too. Doesnt really make sense currently.
Why won’t Tesla sell these adapters already?
Solid performance
Great video as always. Do you know when Tesla will be selling the CCS adapter in North America? I know it can be purchased online from a N. Korea company but curious when Tesla will have it on their website?
No, they aren't saying yet.
A North Korean company?
Sorry everyone. Had a brain cramp!! I meant S. Korea!!
when will electrify america fix the 40 percent of their station that don't work. It is extremely frustating to get to a station in need of a charge and it doesn't work. what good is it if the add chargers but they don't work...Mike Bell
Are you using Scan My Tesla to gather your data for the charging sessions?
No
Hi Tom, I think what you and a lot of people are missing is that if someone buys a salvage Tesla, they can not use super chargers. The only option is to get the CCS ECU kit. That is the only way to use the car for long trips.
Anyone travelling in Canada should definitely consider it. Plenty of places with only ccs. Ccs has 8x the sites as superchargers in Canada (3x in the US) and is the only options for many northern and maritime locations.
I don't think we're missing it as much as realizing you're talking about a minuscule percentage of Teslas on the road. But point taken.
Are the charts of the charging curves available for view anywhere? I would love to have access to one as a general reference for charging my 2022 MYLR. I'm still new to Tesla and don't know always when I'm getting appropriate charging speeds for the state of charge.
I've had my model y performance for 2.5 years and 30k miles, it has not dropped 1kw. It's still the same from day 1 because I take care of the battery by not overcharging or undercharging.
That may be the reason why you lost your capacity, I'm sure it's not the case with every car. I'm sure because of your charging cycles and making these videos it's taken a toll on your battery.
We should be making videos on how to take care of the batteries.
There's no dought tesla superchargers will always be faster, they also get updated unlike ccs I'm pretty sure there's no updates with those.
It cost more for me to charge at home. My off peak rate in California is $.35 a watt.
That's not the norm, but definitely the case in a few regions
The site you linked has canceled orders and lists them as out of stock so getting them there, I think is over.
Looks like That site started refunding orders placed in late June. The adapter is available on the So. Korea Tesla site. Looks like Tesla has locked down the sites supply.
When this adapter will be available here in US ?
I believe Tesla decommissions / turns off charging cabinets if the location doest have a lot of use.
I've never head of that, and it would make no sense if they did. This site is only about two years old and gets a lot of use, just not late at night when I was there.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney if it gets lots of use then it’s not that. But it’s true in some chargers in the west. Or perhaps they are less inclined to fix a problem on a small location
What percentage of electrify America charges on 350 kw? When typically one maybe two of the units at each station being 350, what are my odds?
Can you show us the v2 curve with the CCS1 adapter?
I'd need to redo that recording now that I have less battery capacity.
Isn’t it the vehicle that determines state of charge? Are all options using 350kw?
The vehicle knows the state of charge and relays that information to the DC fast charging station. The vehicle also dictates the power it receives in conjunction with the power the charging station is offering it. There are DC fast chargers that have many different power levels, 350 kW being the most powerful. Not all DC fast charge stations can deliver 350 kW.
Tesla supercharger prices in California have been insane, during peak times i only charge on EA stations at 0.31 cents a kW instead of Tesla's 0.56 cents a kW. If i charge after 10pm I will switch to Tesla (0.19 cents a kW) due to better pricing at night.
Can CCS support ( CCS charge hardware ) be installed for older Model3 cars ( which do not have this support) ? As in would Tesla service do this installation?
Yes. Older model 3 and model y can be upgraded with Tesla parts and an aftermarket wire adapter.
ruclips.net/video/NnCijoG5tS4/видео.html
How did you get your CCS support enabled for the 21? I have the Model 3 21 model year the ccs support shows no.
For a few months, in 2021, Tesla stopped equipping the cars with the CCS1 hardware due to supply shortages, then they resumed including it. Your car must have been made in the months when they stopped including it.
I have the other ccs1 charging adapter (offered by Electron) and it used to work, but it stopped working and I think it’s due to Tesla disabling it.
@@kenyonrudds4564 Yes, it's Lectron, and I have it also. Check out my video on these adapters: ruclips.net/video/51JTXo8r0Xc/видео.html
How do we precondition the battery?
Maybe you have battery degradation because of low % and charging to 100% which is bad for the battery?
Wow this charge port names are horribly confusing. This is CCS v2.0 and Type 1 is based on J1772. "CCS1" is not the best term for this port.
I've seen other charging videos and it appears EA 350kw are not all treated the same. Has this EA charger been able to provide the full power to other vehicles or has it been similar?
Most EA stations can indeed deliver the full 500-amps they are rated at. There are some exceptions, but the vast majority now all deliver up to 350 kW.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney have you been able to get that out of the ea charger that you did your testing on? I’m just curious since that could cause the difference in charging rates and could potentially get the same charging rates if it can give the full 250kw out of the 350. Granted, what your test does provides more real world test vs optimal chargers.
Based on the data he showed, the math works out to about 500A during the flat section of the charge curve. The Supercharger must have been supplying about 700A at its peak.
Which Teslas are CCS enabled?
Hi Tom. Is the adapter a passive device?? Or any smarts inside?
Thanks.
Passive
Why doesn't electrify America offer tesla connections like evgo does? Seems to me you'd want to poach those customers. Their rates are very competitive unlike the ungodly hours like superchargers are doing. Multiple time and rate changes just in 2022 alone
Tesla won't allow them to.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney EV GO has them. Tesla just released them for everyone to use manufacturers and chargers
Well done. So if Tesla and others are raising charge prices and it’s on par with gas , why spend 70 k for electric? Just buy gas car for 50 and a 20k gas card . And drive for the life of the car
They do not have ccs1 on stock
Why doesn't Tesla sell these on their site?
They will. I believe they are waiting until they can make them in enough volume to satisfy most of the demand.
Tom where can I get one of these adapters?
The link is in the description of the video
Could it be that the Tesla Superchargers that were inoperable intentionally turned off to conserve energy and would be switched on when needed.
Excuses excuse. 🙄
Reliability is far more important than speed, and right now Plugshare is failing to provide accurate reliability rankings.
I don’t think this proves anything. How do you know the Tesla implementation of CCS is not the culprit?
Don’t forget to add the time it takes to sign in at an EA charger
This was my question also. I don't know if you want to call it boot time or what, but would be interesting to know how much time it takes from closing the driver door to electrons actually being delivered to the car. It may not be significant if you are already setup in the EA network or other network. Just curious.
i bet if you go back to that tesla charger today all the chargers are working. same cant be said of EA. out of spec reviews has shown multiple EA chargers that are broken and have been for more than a year.
They weren't working about a week later when I went back
Can you please share the cost of charging, I keep finding that the tesla Superchargers cost a lot more than the EA chargers.
Watch the video. I see by me in NJ/PA/DE/MD areas the recent cost increases bring the price of SC up to the 0.40 -0.44 per kWh now. They used to be in the 0.30 range.
As you said, first year capacity loss is larger and then less. I'm guessing your M3 had a hard life then, with many fast charging sessions?
And...Tesla SC non operating 😲
Somebody notify Zach and Jesse!
Oh, you said in the video you 95% home charge...never mind
No, not too much Supercharging. To date, 83% of my charging is on L2, 17% on Supeperchargers or DC fast chargers
Tom, I don't know who else to ask this and Google searches seem to all contradict each other. Why has the charging industry agreed to such a high per-kWh rate? It was originally in the 15-25 cent rate and now EA, Blink and Tesla have all gone to almost 50 cents a kWh; that doesn't make it "cheaper" than gas by a long shot. Should those of us who road trip get "punished" for using a fast charger?
You're not being punished, IMO. I prefer to take the angle that I'm getting a discount when I charge at home because I'm cutting out the middleman, rather than saying I'm paying extra with public charging. These companies (EA, ChargePoint, Blink, EVgo, etc) have to lay out hundreds of thousands of dollars to install the DC fast chargers, then have insurance, pay to repair them when they break, fix vandalism problems, pay enormous demand charges, etc. All of that costs thousands of dollars per site, per month. If they don't charge more than what the electricity costs them, how do they pay for all that? Personally, I think the pricing is pretty fair, when you consider all of the costs that go into installing and maintaining these sites.
I like to see battery degradation tests of all these super charging sessions you are doing from 0 percent.