Right now I'm completing 23's and it feels like a hard cut off. On tyrannical you actually need to use cooldowns at the right time and dodge things or you get one-shot. While on 22 you can just zug zug. This week was absolutely miserable pugging. And playing warrior also doesn't help getting invited.
People don't like inviting warriors because of the lack of utility, but if the problem will be surviveability, I wonder how many specs can match fury, with the constant 10%, the on demand 15% (D stance), and 20% magic reduction every 25 sec. couple that with extra stam from second 2-hander and 5% overall stam buff. Well I guess the 5 target damage cap might still hold it back, even if utility can come from the rest of the group.
I played warrior for half of season one. Trust me when I say it’s completely not worth bothering, especially now when certain specs are even more “required” than ever
Speaking about raid buffs, it was nice to me when multiple classes could carry the same buff. DK and Warrior could share a buff, druid and paladin. I know this would create more problems with class stacking etc but it would feel nicer in m+ and it would feel way better in raid when your DH can't log in one day, or when you have no monk because no one plays that class...
@@Nicolas-fo8qdMeanwhile most people enjoyed the game the most in mob because you could just play a class and have the ability to deal with stuff. Atm as Shadow in M+ I just have to pray people interrupt properly and I get to join that every 45s...
1 - REMOVE Tyrannical/Fortified. 2 - Get rid of stupid "Break the Shield Every 30 Secs" fight mechanics since it mathematically gets expeditiously worse due to "multiplier" of scaling system.
27:15 it's crazy to me that we are back to this design where you spend 20 minutes crusing along just to get to a pass-fail scenario at the end with like 12 minutes left on the timer in dungeons like AD and Yazma. They specifically nerfed Melandris in Court of Stars in S1 because of this where the ONLY thing stopping you from beating the dungeon was the last boss and whether or not you could even kill it.
I'd be ok with longer dungeon boss fights if they had multiple phases like raid bosses (kind of like what Dratnos suggested). One of my favorite bosses in SL was the end boss of Theater specifically because it felt distinctly different (and more dangerous) in p2. You'd need to make adjustments to timers so it's fair and probably do better tuning for higher keys, but I think it could be really interesting conceptually.
28:47 there is also still difficulty with the bosses simply living longer since assumedly health would still scale up if damage doesn't. The challenge shifts from "can I even live Wracking Pain at all" to "can we optimize spider positions better since this room WILL fill". Same with like the council fight in EB. They could take "budget" out of the 24/7 casts and move it into things like making more usage of the room and actually switching targets since the damage intake is so high right now you HAVE to zerg one of the casters to even have a chance.
+1 crest per week of patch would keep me playing late into the tier. The biggest barrier for alts is crests so that would solve the issue. Good idea y’all :)
The Free Enchanted Wyrm's crests have always been pretty useless for most of the player base. You earn them too slowly to use them when you still need them. By the time you earn them you are already pumping aspects into the crafts you've used your sparks on.
one thing I thought when they changed professions for DF was that they could expand on the Court of Stars Idea with professions...blacksmiths get a bonus to inflict gaps in the opponents armor increasing physical damage taken by 5%...Alchimists erode whatever and do the 5% magic damage...making it possible to bring missing buffs by choice
Warrior does need some help, especially arms. I feel prot is solid but could maybe use a lil spicy, fury is okay but has dead talents and maybe needs some extra cool buttons to press. Arms has an identity crisis and suffers hard with 1 vs multi target. All 3 have a dead spear of bastion capstone and only prot consistently takes shockwave.
arms doesnt tak shockwave but fury def does since its less of a st dps loss to pick up. i agree about spear, ive always hated it. i wish they gave us necro banner or aftershock instead. more so banner since its a mastery buff and would make current fury burst so insane
I don't know if its ever been talked about but why not just make it so there is a raid and dungeon buff ability that is given to all classes and they can select which one they want to use? Yes it removes fantasy but it also increases the amount of comps you can run if lets say your shaman can give you priest buff and priest suck right now etc
For the warrior class tree. How about we move shovkwave up and in its place we put a version of banner from maldraxxus. The gameplay of keeping it rolling and the mastery/ movespeed you give to your party and yhe strength you give to yourself feels good. The gameplay of dumping rage constantly feels good
They should reintroduce scrolls and only allow 2. That way you have flexibility to stack an OP class or for normal raid guilds they don’t feel gimped for not having a particular class.
Classes n specs that could use a rework: Affliction Shadow Blood Guardian Balance Marksman I think these are def all the ones in need of a dire rework. DoT specs, aka Shadow and Affliction, need to go back to their roots/origins, but we know blizzard doesn't want to do that. It's too hard and difficult to balance things, even though it's literally quite simple honestly. Affliction: Give them a few DoTs, make the DoTs "do less damage above X targets" like say 2 targets, damage reduced by 10%, and then above 5 targets, damage further reduced by another 10%. That literally solves their scaling issue. Another thing with them is this: Shadow and Affliction can be entirely different beasts. Make Affliction about nothing but DoTs, BUT don't give them stupidly large amounts of DoTs. They only need 3 regular DoTs to maintain and then the 4th being Drain Soul, literally it. Make there be a talent or make it baseline, where, your Agony and Corruption automatically jump to a new target any time they deal damage. If you have a pack of 4, it will auto spread to the 4 from the 1st, and then if there happens to be a pat of 2 coming and joins later on, ticks from the 4 will spread to those 2. However, it will not refresh itself, it just applies itself. You have to be the one refreshing it. That helps with spread and getting DoTs up but then you have to maintain them. Give 2 talent options: 1 increases their damage and duration by 100% so your 18 second Agony becomes a 36 second Agony. This works for higher fortified keys or if you want to play a more draining playstyle. Give another option that reduces their duration by 50%, making it more of a spammy playstyle for those wanting to throw DoTs around more frequently. It buffs their damage by 75% since they're already buffed by 100% by shortening their duration. Scrap Malefic Rapture, put in its place Rapid Contagion, and then also give Affliction execute DoTs back. Starting at 100% hp, every 2% missing health from the target buffs DoT damage n DoT ticking speeds by 0.5% for damage and 0.75% for tick speeds. This puts it around 25% damage buff and 37% speed. Shadow: Rework the bottom of their tree. 3 Idols should be scrapped. Left idol about the mindbender nonsense, scrap it. Put in its place an idol about DoTs being able to execute starting at 100% and being more effective the lower the HP of their targets. 2nd Idol next to it scrap it, put in its place 'your Shadow Damage over Time effects now splash 10% of damage they deal on to all nearby enemy targets." This gives you a DoT side to go to if you want a DoT side for a DoT spec. The right side: scrap the Thing from Beyond idol and instead make it a Shadowy Apparition idol. 1 of those nodes increases Apparition travel speed by 50/100% and makes your DoT ticks have a 20/40% chance to summon an apparition per tick., and then going into "You now spawn double the amount of Shadowy Apparitions, and your Shadowy Apparitions now deal 20% of their damage to all nearby enemy targets when they hit their target." So you get splash AoE and having a machine gun Apparition playstyle. For the tentacle idol, make it so they spawn either on your own character or they travel with you so you have some kind of movement thing going for them. Blood: I'm with Dorki on this. I don't think Blood should be the DoT maintenance tank, I think that's closer towards Guardian Druid's job or should be their niche, not the DKs. AoE runic power spender kinda thing would be cool. Guardian: Honestly the biggest thing I want them to do for this spec would be to make their Mastery scaling not garbage. They have a literal perfect Mastery in increasing their max HP and healing received, but it's been so badly scaling since Legion when they messed it up purposefully and never fixed it. As simple as this spec is to play; it should honestly be the DoT maintenance spec out of all the tanks. I think this tank should be the one with the absolute highest health among all the tanks, their Mastery should be from like 400 or 700 rating per 1% down to 100 rating per 1% Mastery. They should have a few Torghast powers for them including: "Every 20th DoT tick calls down a Full Moon to fall on the target." With the "Your Damage over Time effects occur 33% more frequently" and then also the talent Adaptive Swarm should be in this spec as well, and Adaptive Swarm should have it's 2nd talent of "60% chance to split into 2 when it jumps" should be bumped to a 100% chance instead. I think that should be the case for literally all the specs with it, not just Guardian. I also think Guardian should have a talent where it can cast Rake, Rip, Wrath, Starfire, Rejuvenation and Wild Growth in bear form without swapping or it should get 90% damage reduction for like 4 seconds or something if it swaps out of Bear Form, though that could literally get abused so easily. I would just prefer them being able to cast things in Bear Form cause they can't do so otherwise unless it's in raid or they go super far distance away. Balance: They need to figure out what they want to do with this spec. Some people call this a DoT spec, others say it isn't so. They gotta figure out what they want from it and reduce it's ramp significantly. Marksmanship: I think these dudes don't need a full blown rework rework, they just need stuff to cast while on the move a bit that doesn't do as much damage but it's better than nothing. Good episode, though, guys. I always enjoy these podcasts.
If you want to increase class diversity for keys and raids without giving everyone a raid buff, make certain classes synergies extremely strong with other specific classses - but not all classes and only in party sizes. Examples: -windfury totem (og style) -moonkin aura that increases dot damage/healing - feral druids give pack leader buff to hunters, shaman, and monks - ele shaman give crit spell damage amp - monks increase two handed melee attack speed - warriors cause physical damage done by the group to add a bleed -etc Endless fun M+ comps to play with and more raid party optimization, and maybe easier way to control the support classes. Good luck sims
while the ideas is fine, people would just pick the strongest combo, even if the difference was 2%, and just stick with it, so you would have 0 class diversity again. Its both the wow players mentality and content requirement. As long as you have a timer in m+ and a dps checks in raids, people will pick the best class. And thats fine, as long as all other classes are close in balance, cause perfect balance is impossible in a game this big and complicated.
@@ergodoodle1951 this is true, but might make it easier for the majority of non 1% people to get into content and groups. All they need to do is implement a pick and ban phase similar to LoL draft for MDI and this might encourage more comp diversity along with the recommendations above. That way we don’t see the same comp over and over and over again. Might slow down the god comp mentality of the community a bit
big pulls are so fucking good BUT if you play a capped class they fucking suck when you see the uncapped specs pop off and you are just stuck doing the same damage the entire time
@@Dilllll26 I played it and it's OK damage wise but frost absolutely needs to get away from standing in DND. Awful game design that has been eliminated in all specs but dk and prot pally.
@@2invidious Yup, if it's a pug tank, he's almost always gonna not give a shit about DND. Also the 40 yard whelpling linear attack when using Pillar of Frost can be frustrating, I keep pulling on accident because of how often it's used and the insane range on it
@@emllik2155 pointing it at the closest wall is usually the best bet. But I know it goes through and pulls stuff behind a wall if there is a mob there, it's rough.
Older guy gamer checking in. M+ exists for guilds like ours to gear up so we can smash heroic and get most of the way through mythic in a season. 20's being more accessible have 100% made it more fun - this is the first season I've timed a 20. I could have before but it wasn't worth the time investment to learn the dungeons. I don't have the kind of time required to learn all that. If you guys released a good weakaura pack for M+ you would help out my demographic massively.
Surival hunter is another spec that could use major reworks. The [letora of terrible/dead talents is insane. The spec has at least 6 talents that are pure % incorease of something, not to mention they have 11 nodes with 2 point, feels bad man. On top of that they have two capstone talents that have 0 sync. Dont get me wrong spearhead is amazing, it should be a pvp talent.
you're not kidding about that one shot damage though. I was running 20s while doing this on resto shaman, and there's just nothing I can do for things like the opening pull of DHT. I also need about 20% more haste, but that's neither here nor there.
This is classic Blizzard. Lightening fast to fix the cheeses and techs but completely blind to fixing problems. I mean if high end m+ people like dorki, dratnos, Tettles, etc are saying something is a problem then it’s probably a problem.
What class needs changes: Windwalker, Windwalker, Windwalker Brewmaster Blood DK Frost DK (playing the same playstyle for a decade) Arms warrior (playing the same for 15 years)
Around 19:30 I'm thinking yeah I like all the dungeons except Rise/Fall. I definitely like the game being a bit easier I fell off in Legion once it became a job and I had an actual job and have only just gotten back into for season 3 and my goal is to just get all +20s done.
My only issue in M+ this season honestly is boss design for the DotI dungeons. Playing a raid-style boss is not something I look forward to in my dungeons, I would rather have simpler (mechanically) bosses and keep the focus of M+ on mobs and general strategy.
I'm an ilvl 472 prot warrior with 2.2k rating, and I've been declined from pugs for +15s. The only reason my rating is decently high is my guild luckily has quite a few active people that want to do keys. Otherwise i think id still be down in the 1500s rating wise. It's very frustrating
What you guys should talk about is how is there a latency issue when playing with oce players. Not a lot of people noticed this but as of know for oce players they have to either use a vpn to play with US server players or just play with oce players This has been going on since launch of 10.2
Hunters tanky class yeah right 2.4 m cd on cdr great design compared to everyone else 1m cdr. Seems balance to me right? And they provide hunter's mark right its same as motw/ai/+5% magic dmg in m+ right? Oh wait it doesn't. So whats the plan. Let's nerf them more. Yep thats a great idea.
As long as you are targeting the important mobs and killing them fast, that’s all that matters, bad players play for pad dps, good ones play for key speed
Chain lightning infinite chains when blizz I love ele sham, it was my first toon ever in classic and BC when I was a kid. I've wanted to play one in retail but they seem to be in such a shitty place.
@@Dilllll26 this but unironically. If you mongo pull in throne for instance the reason you wipe will more likely be the sentinels or the big elementals and not the little guys running around just white swinging on the tank. Let the Havoc have fun padding on murlocs or the infinitely respawning elementals while you actually kill the target that matters.
I think you have a lot of incredible takes on everything. But when it comes to buffs, I agree with what Max says at the beginning, it's incredibly difficult to find the right path, then if you do that a lot of classes can fix the buff and you end up in a much more "toxic" environment. Then m+ will always be "those strong classes". And yes, there will be staking, especially when it comes to raiding. We can't get around that if you go down that road. I hope Blizzard finds the right way. Thanks for an incredible "Poddy". Peace.
Just do what they did in mop where class buffs overlapped so you could mix and match freely, if you put it in hero choice then ppl that are forced to choose buff over a cool or thematic altercation of a skill is gonna feel real bad
One new area to explore is the duration of Exhaustion. What if Mana Spring also took 1 second off Exhaustion with each Riptide/Lava Burst. Useless in some fights, must have in others. Overall good in M+.
As a pug player on EU i would say pugging after level 24 is really rough, Doing most 23-24 is "fine" but damn its hard to push over that without voice, i try to type down like a quick rotation on defensives/raid cds etc but man its harsh (Tyranical)
The problem with people being able to climb to +20 keys fast is a lot of them dont know the dungeon and get oneshot and can't get past a certain mechanic because they dont know it. I really wish even for myself that the earlier keys were harder. For example even heroic dungeons should've been harder instead of running through ignoring every mechanic.
True. It's also bad for like the low wyrm's crest range since it is pretty much impossible not to go 2->5->8->10/11->12/13 and be in a key you have no place being in either gearwise or knowledge wise and it isn't even the newer players fault. They ran their own key and are now 420 IL in a 13 key of a dungeon they've literally never done after like 2 hours of playing.
Regarding raid buffs, instead of it being tied to a specific spec why not have it be determined by spec diversity. What I mean by that is if you have 3 different specs brought to a 20 man raid, then you get X raid buff, 6 specs add another buff, 9 specs...etc. I feel that something like this would make the raid comps more interesting.
I started playing in SL and mostly pvp. I got glad and play at 22 to 24 most days and it was fun. Now in DF i find my self hard stuck 1800 and only hit 2100 once in 3s. Ss was so fun because it was so easy to hit 2400. I say all of this to warn you m+ players. Enjoy the free io because when they take it away it feels bad.
For me the fact that some classes do both ST and AoE is great for those classes but horrible for anything else. The fact you can no longer have a spec thats slightly worse at ST to do big AoE or the other way around coz you just pick the one that does both kind of sucks.
You're so fucking right lol - sometimes I just wonder what blizz thinks makes up for all their weaknesses, especially frost. Just because they are tanky they have to suck at everything else?
I thought I loved Outlaw until the rework came and I actually practiced it. It reminds me of spamming Shadowstrike on Sub, but now you have a window to spam anything and if you go outside the window you can't do damage for 30 seconds. Yeah no thank you.
I can't remember SL very well, but wasn't it different when it came to AoE/ST choice? I don't remember changing my talents every time I went from trash in a raid to a boss. Although maybe it was a thing and I just never did it. I played Vengeance so maybe it didn't matter
Maybe this is just me but I feel like the 21-24 range has felt so much worse pugging. Everytime I see someone with high IO from last season that was playing one of the god comp specs it really really feels like their IO is inflated and they often play worse than people with IO that was 300+ lower than theirs.
Going on the melee tanget at the end I think they need to just renormalize melee ranges. Playing something like Surv or Outlaw which have like 10 yard melee range permanently and then switching to say Windwalker or even Enh for its actual melee abilities just feels awful when you have to stand in the mobs colon pretty much. They can keep things like Ret having its fairly decent range lead on other melee as a niche, but the minimum should be brought up.
Ret having Judgment/Blade/HoW/ExSent be ranged-ish is so nice. Final Verdict getting the extra range helps too. When I swap to my enh shaman or monk I feel so gimped by having to just be up in shit. With the amount of spell effects and mechanics I feel that all melee should have a base 5yd attack range just for clarity's sake. I play zoomed decently far out and on my monk there are some times that I just can't see shit. Just giving that 5yds to be able to be out of the enemies asshole would help out a ton
What if raid buffs stacks with diminishing returns? Imagine the fun comp builds with triple mage int buff. Or the melee squad warrior windfury rogue windwalker. In raids its frustrating because you never feel like you have everything. What if what ever weird comp showed up, you would have come interesting characteristics.
Honest question. This whole "Ret pally has to choose between AOE and Single target with their ability press". Doesn't EVEYRONE? Literally windwalker has to press rising sun kick OR Spinning Crane Kick. Mage presses Fire Storm OR Fire ball. So what am I missing with that comment, which I hear a ton.
Lol they mean in the talent tree not what they actually press dude😂😂 And some classes like ret or arms have to give up either single target or aoe to a significant degree where other classes dont have to in m+
It's the talent builds. Specs like Ret or Aff have to completely gut their boss damage do do respectable AoE on trash and vice versa. Meanwhile specs like Havoc now or Fire (historically) get to do like 90% of their pure st in their pure AoE build.
I agree with alts gearing being annoying but I would say multiple specs on the same toon is really problematic right now. You have way more incentive to create multiples of the same class to play different specs than keeping the same. Sure you keep the same tier set for all specs but just having one vault for all of your specs at the same time, + the raid lockout per toon instead of spec + the currency cap you are basically screwed really fast and most of your specs will have dog gear compared to if you played an alt instead. Which is objectively terrible design.
Same with unholy dk, 482 simming 155k ST for 3mins while havoc is 190k+ LOL Atleast Ret and UH used to excel on big aoe but now DH and BM shit on them there aswell as in cleave and ST
@@sylok6978 I mean that’s 482 bis with lust and army together. If you don’t get them on pull your dmg is pretty bad. Atleast Ret has some utility. The one positive is we are both invincible classes
The issue with "opportunity costs" is they only work if everyone is treated equally. It would be cool and impact comps if you had to bring 2 AoE specs and 1 boss blaster or whatever in which case specs like Aff could do either, but why do that when specs like Havoc or BM or what have you can do both in the same build? Affliction is a spec that will pretty much never be good in M+ because it can't do boss damage in its AoE build and it can't do AoE damage if you take Dread Touch and Crescendo and whatnot.
Wanted you all to know. How awesome your pod is. I haven't played retail since legion launch. Yet I love this podcast. I have almost no idea what you are talking about but the passion is enthralling. Keep it up!
I think one big downside of aug is when 1 dps dies and cant be ressed then you are screwed. Also the gab between a good and bad aug is really big and most are just plain bad
Also dungeons like Waycrest and AD are kind of miserable since personal dps matters. If the non-aug gets picked by triad or goliath it is way worse than if you had a "standard" comp.
Feral should have Leader of the Pack baseline, and boomie that spell aura they have for pvp. ret pally should have a improved ret aura, prot pally a improved dev aura, etc. Ele shammy they're skyfury. Make Stormbolt do bonus dmg to stun immune targets again. Give our interupts, stuns, cleanses, etc back baseline! Warriors should have berserker rage baseline!
Ah, yes DPS representation. You want to talk about funny representation numbers? Try and find Preservation evoker in healer chart xD And that spec is extremely amazing this season
Capping scaling for some mechanics and not others is sorta clunky and makes key level change the dmg pattern of a dungeon. They should just scale enemy health by 10% per key level and enemy damage by 8% per key level.
![[Special Clip] ATEEZ(에이티즈) 홍중 'Why Do You Love'](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I6XYXQKN_pY/mqdefault.jpg)
I DEMAND that Dorki's hat and background now change and be relevant to each episode.
Dorki’s new hard hat suits him very well.
Loved the Podcast , Thanks again for all the work you guys put in. Really easy to listen to.
Right now I'm completing 23's and it feels like a hard cut off. On tyrannical you actually need to use cooldowns at the right time and dodge things or you get one-shot. While on 22 you can just zug zug. This week was absolutely miserable pugging. And playing warrior also doesn't help getting invited.
Same bro
People don't like inviting warriors because of the lack of utility, but if the problem will be surviveability, I wonder how many specs can match fury, with the constant 10%, the on demand 15% (D stance), and 20% magic reduction every 25 sec. couple that with extra stam from second 2-hander and 5% overall stam buff. Well I guess the 5 target damage cap might still hold it back, even if utility can come from the rest of the group.
I played warrior for half of season one. Trust me when I say it’s completely not worth bothering, especially now when certain specs are even more “required” than ever
thanks for another succulent episode
Speaking about raid buffs, it was nice to me when multiple classes could carry the same buff. DK and Warrior could share a buff, druid and paladin. I know this would create more problems with class stacking etc but it would feel nicer in m+ and it would feel way better in raid when your DH can't log in one day, or when you have no monk because no one plays that class...
That's when classes were completely homogenized and there really is no point to having the buffs when every class has it
@@Nicolas-fo8qdMeanwhile most people enjoyed the game the most in mob because you could just play a class and have the ability to deal with stuff. Atm as Shadow in M+ I just have to pray people interrupt properly and I get to join that every 45s...
"It's fun to mass pull".....Bolstering, "And I took that personally"
1 - REMOVE Tyrannical/Fortified.
2 - Get rid of stupid "Break the Shield Every 30 Secs" fight mechanics since it mathematically gets expeditiously worse due to "multiplier" of scaling system.
27:15 it's crazy to me that we are back to this design where you spend 20 minutes crusing along just to get to a pass-fail scenario at the end with like 12 minutes left on the timer in dungeons like AD and Yazma.
They specifically nerfed Melandris in Court of Stars in S1 because of this where the ONLY thing stopping you from beating the dungeon was the last boss and whether or not you could even kill it.
Shadow priest could use some love. They haven’t nailed down anything with it and it feels like it’s just floating
I'd be ok with longer dungeon boss fights if they had multiple phases like raid bosses (kind of like what Dratnos suggested). One of my favorite bosses in SL was the end boss of Theater specifically because it felt distinctly different (and more dangerous) in p2. You'd need to make adjustments to timers so it's fair and probably do better tuning for higher keys, but I think it could be really interesting conceptually.
28:47 there is also still difficulty with the bosses simply living longer since assumedly health would still scale up if damage doesn't. The challenge shifts from "can I even live Wracking Pain at all" to "can we optimize spider positions better since this room WILL fill".
Same with like the council fight in EB. They could take "budget" out of the 24/7 casts and move it into things like making more usage of the room and actually switching targets since the damage intake is so high right now you HAVE to zerg one of the casters to even have a chance.
+1 crest per week of patch would keep me playing late into the tier. The biggest barrier for alts is crests so that would solve the issue. Good idea y’all :)
The Free Enchanted Wyrm's crests have always been pretty useless for most of the player base. You earn them too slowly to use them when you still need them. By the time you earn them you are already pumping aspects into the crafts you've used your sparks on.
one thing I thought when they changed professions for DF was that they could expand on the Court of Stars Idea with professions...blacksmiths get a bonus to inflict gaps in the opponents armor increasing physical damage taken by 5%...Alchimists erode whatever and do the 5% magic damage...making it possible to bring missing buffs by choice
Warrior does need some help, especially arms. I feel prot is solid but could maybe use a lil spicy, fury is okay but has dead talents and maybe needs some extra cool buttons to press. Arms has an identity crisis and suffers hard with 1 vs multi target. All 3 have a dead spear of bastion capstone and only prot consistently takes shockwave.
agree with most things except both arms and fury can and do both take shockwave
arms doesnt tak shockwave but fury def does since its less of a st dps loss to pick up. i agree about spear, ive always hated it. i wish they gave us necro banner or aftershock instead. more so banner since its a mastery buff and would make current fury burst so insane
We need more undercover raid leading!
I don't know if its ever been talked about but why not just make it so there is a raid and dungeon buff ability that is given to all classes and they can select which one they want to use? Yes it removes fantasy but it also increases the amount of comps you can run if lets say your shaman can give you priest buff and priest suck right now etc
Bring back "Wrath of Air Totem" (or something similar) for Ele shamans, it would be like a Windfury for range
We have Skyfury Totem (crit damage only for spells), but it's only PvP.
Love the construction hat, more of that please ❤
Glad to have PoddyC back :) I thought its gonna be abandoned when there was no upload after race has finished.
For the warrior class tree. How about we move shovkwave up and in its place we put a version of banner from maldraxxus. The gameplay of keeping it rolling and the mastery/ movespeed you give to your party and yhe strength you give to yourself feels good. The gameplay of dumping rage constantly feels good
They should reintroduce scrolls and only allow 2. That way you have flexibility to stack an OP class or for normal raid guilds they don’t feel gimped for not having a particular class.
Classes n specs that could use a rework:
Affliction
Shadow
Blood
Guardian
Balance
Marksman
I think these are def all the ones in need of a dire rework.
DoT specs, aka Shadow and Affliction, need to go back to their roots/origins, but we know blizzard doesn't want to do that. It's too hard and difficult to balance things, even though it's literally quite simple honestly.
Affliction: Give them a few DoTs, make the DoTs "do less damage above X targets" like say 2 targets, damage reduced by 10%, and then above 5 targets, damage further reduced by another 10%. That literally solves their scaling issue. Another thing with them is this: Shadow and Affliction can be entirely different beasts. Make Affliction about nothing but DoTs, BUT don't give them stupidly large amounts of DoTs. They only need 3 regular DoTs to maintain and then the 4th being Drain Soul, literally it. Make there be a talent or make it baseline, where, your Agony and Corruption automatically jump to a new target any time they deal damage. If you have a pack of 4, it will auto spread to the 4 from the 1st, and then if there happens to be a pat of 2 coming and joins later on, ticks from the 4 will spread to those 2. However, it will not refresh itself, it just applies itself. You have to be the one refreshing it. That helps with spread and getting DoTs up but then you have to maintain them. Give 2 talent options: 1 increases their damage and duration by 100% so your 18 second Agony becomes a 36 second Agony. This works for higher fortified keys or if you want to play a more draining playstyle. Give another option that reduces their duration by 50%, making it more of a spammy playstyle for those wanting to throw DoTs around more frequently. It buffs their damage by 75% since they're already buffed by 100% by shortening their duration. Scrap Malefic Rapture, put in its place Rapid Contagion, and then also give Affliction execute DoTs back. Starting at 100% hp, every 2% missing health from the target buffs DoT damage n DoT ticking speeds by 0.5% for damage and 0.75% for tick speeds. This puts it around 25% damage buff and 37% speed.
Shadow: Rework the bottom of their tree. 3 Idols should be scrapped. Left idol about the mindbender nonsense, scrap it. Put in its place an idol about DoTs being able to execute starting at 100% and being more effective the lower the HP of their targets. 2nd Idol next to it scrap it, put in its place 'your Shadow Damage over Time effects now splash 10% of damage they deal on to all nearby enemy targets." This gives you a DoT side to go to if you want a DoT side for a DoT spec. The right side: scrap the Thing from Beyond idol and instead make it a Shadowy Apparition idol. 1 of those nodes increases Apparition travel speed by 50/100% and makes your DoT ticks have a 20/40% chance to summon an apparition per tick., and then going into "You now spawn double the amount of Shadowy Apparitions, and your Shadowy Apparitions now deal 20% of their damage to all nearby enemy targets when they hit their target." So you get splash AoE and having a machine gun Apparition playstyle. For the tentacle idol, make it so they spawn either on your own character or they travel with you so you have some kind of movement thing going for them.
Blood: I'm with Dorki on this. I don't think Blood should be the DoT maintenance tank, I think that's closer towards Guardian Druid's job or should be their niche, not the DKs. AoE runic power spender kinda thing would be cool.
Guardian: Honestly the biggest thing I want them to do for this spec would be to make their Mastery scaling not garbage. They have a literal perfect Mastery in increasing their max HP and healing received, but it's been so badly scaling since Legion when they messed it up purposefully and never fixed it. As simple as this spec is to play; it should honestly be the DoT maintenance spec out of all the tanks. I think this tank should be the one with the absolute highest health among all the tanks, their Mastery should be from like 400 or 700 rating per 1% down to 100 rating per 1% Mastery. They should have a few Torghast powers for them including: "Every 20th DoT tick calls down a Full Moon to fall on the target." With the "Your Damage over Time effects occur 33% more frequently" and then also the talent Adaptive Swarm should be in this spec as well, and Adaptive Swarm should have it's 2nd talent of "60% chance to split into 2 when it jumps" should be bumped to a 100% chance instead. I think that should be the case for literally all the specs with it, not just Guardian. I also think Guardian should have a talent where it can cast Rake, Rip, Wrath, Starfire, Rejuvenation and Wild Growth in bear form without swapping or it should get 90% damage reduction for like 4 seconds or something if it swaps out of Bear Form, though that could literally get abused so easily. I would just prefer them being able to cast things in Bear Form cause they can't do so otherwise unless it's in raid or they go super far distance away.
Balance: They need to figure out what they want to do with this spec. Some people call this a DoT spec, others say it isn't so. They gotta figure out what they want from it and reduce it's ramp significantly.
Marksmanship: I think these dudes don't need a full blown rework rework, they just need stuff to cast while on the move a bit that doesn't do as much damage but it's better than nothing.
Good episode, though, guys. I always enjoy these podcasts.
Remember when shaman was the only lust??? we had a raid spot back then
Puging is so aweful the ammount of dps doing s1 level damage on 470ilvl is absurdly insane.
THAT GRAPH IS WILD
haven't listened yet but I'm very curious as to why Dorki is "under construction". lol
he is deep in the mines
"Mana spring totem would be nice", raiders get excited, Dorki. a true man of culture, "what?"
If you want to increase class diversity for keys and raids without giving everyone a raid buff, make certain classes synergies extremely strong with other specific classses - but not all classes and only in party sizes.
Examples:
-windfury totem (og style)
-moonkin aura that increases dot damage/healing
- feral druids give pack leader buff to hunters, shaman, and monks
- ele shaman give crit spell damage amp
- monks increase two handed melee attack speed
- warriors cause physical damage done by the group to add a bleed
-etc
Endless fun M+ comps to play with and more raid party optimization, and maybe easier way to control the support classes. Good luck sims
while the ideas is fine, people would just pick the strongest combo, even if the difference was 2%, and just stick with it, so you would have 0 class diversity again. Its both the wow players mentality and content requirement. As long as you have a timer in m+ and a dps checks in raids, people will pick the best class. And thats fine, as long as all other classes are close in balance, cause perfect balance is impossible in a game this big and complicated.
@@ergodoodle1951 this is true, but might make it easier for the majority of non 1% people to get into content and groups.
All they need to do is implement a pick and ban phase similar to LoL draft for MDI and this might encourage more comp diversity along with the recommendations above. That way we don’t see the same comp over and over and over again. Might slow down the god comp mentality of the community a bit
The reason this season is popular is that 20s are accessible. When the game is designed to get more people involved the game is better.
“Warlocks are fine, maybe a lil undertuned” - Definitely Not A Warlock
I pugged 3100 as a bdk. It’s nice having so much control on the packs though. I can really alleviate peoples fuck ups
big pulls are so fucking good BUT if you play a capped class they fucking suck when you see the uncapped specs pop off and you are just stuck doing the same damage the entire time
thd gains power every time the gearing system/patch longevity is mentioned, beware
The mass pulls and lower cognitive load has made m+ way more enjoyable as a dps dk. Last season was miserable with the pull counts
Frost was puuumping on 2-4 targets season tho, you missed out
@@Dilllll26 I played it and it's OK damage wise but frost absolutely needs to get away from standing in DND. Awful game design that has been eliminated in all specs but dk and prot pally.
@@2invidious Yup, if it's a pug tank, he's almost always gonna not give a shit about DND. Also the 40 yard whelpling linear attack when using Pillar of Frost can be frustrating, I keep pulling on accident because of how often it's used and the insane range on it
@@2invidiousI've thought moving our oblit AOE to when remorseless winter is active rather than d&d would work alot better
@@emllik2155 pointing it at the closest wall is usually the best bet. But I know it goes through and pulls stuff behind a wall if there is a mob there, it's rough.
Excellent episode, getting better every time
Older guy gamer checking in. M+ exists for guilds like ours to gear up so we can smash heroic and get most of the way through mythic in a season. 20's being more accessible have 100% made it more fun - this is the first season I've timed a 20. I could have before but it wasn't worth the time investment to learn the dungeons. I don't have the kind of time required to learn all that. If you guys released a good weakaura pack for M+ you would help out my demographic massively.
I love these episodes! Tysm guys
Surival hunter is another spec that could use major reworks. The [letora of terrible/dead talents is insane. The spec has at least 6 talents that are pure % incorease of something, not to mention they have 11 nodes with 2 point, feels bad man. On top of that they have two capstone talents that have 0 sync. Dont get me wrong spearhead is amazing, it should be a pvp talent.
you're not kidding about that one shot damage though. I was running 20s while doing this on resto shaman, and there's just nothing I can do for things like the opening pull of DHT. I also need about 20% more haste, but that's neither here nor there.
This is classic Blizzard. Lightening fast to fix the cheeses and techs but completely blind to fixing problems. I mean if high end m+ people like dorki, dratnos, Tettles, etc are saying something is a problem then it’s probably a problem.
It's a tuning issue, people aren't liking the dungeon set. They're straight up easier.
2:59 apparently he hasn't talked to Warlock players or played one for him to make that statement lol
What class needs changes:
Windwalker, Windwalker, Windwalker
Brewmaster
Blood DK
Frost DK (playing the same playstyle for a decade)
Arms warrior (playing the same for 15 years)
I’ve been pugging 22-23s and have been depleting like crazy.
Jfc Max’s suggestion on Ele sham buff is cooked
Around 19:30 I'm thinking yeah I like all the dungeons except Rise/Fall. I definitely like the game being a bit easier I fell off in Legion once it became a job and I had an actual job and have only just gotten back into for season 3 and my goal is to just get all +20s done.
My only issue in M+ this season honestly is boss design for the DotI dungeons. Playing a raid-style boss is not something I look forward to in my dungeons, I would rather have simpler (mechanically) bosses and keep the focus of M+ on mobs and general strategy.
This season rocks cause I timed a few 20s with 5 tanks. Reminds me of the twilight dev days with 30 tanks in BFA
So that is where all the tanks are : )
you stun the juggernaut charges, just watch the timers and hold the global when it comes up
Dadnos looks like he hasn’t slept in 19 days. Homie has been fighting for his life against tindral and these DOTI dungeons 😂
I'm an ilvl 472 prot warrior with 2.2k rating, and I've been declined from pugs for +15s. The only reason my rating is decently high is my guild luckily has quite a few active people that want to do keys. Otherwise i think id still be down in the 1500s rating wise. It's very frustrating
Dorki in the IO mines
What you guys should talk about is how is there a latency issue when playing with oce players.
Not a lot of people noticed this but as of know for oce players they have to either use a vpn to play with US server players or just play with oce players
This has been going on since launch of 10.2
Feral would be so much better if they made Primal Wrath and Tear Open Wounds baseline.
Hunters tanky class yeah right 2.4 m cd on cdr great design compared to everyone else 1m cdr. Seems balance to me right? And they provide hunter's mark right its same as motw/ai/+5% magic dmg in m+ right? Oh wait it doesn't. So whats the plan. Let's nerf them more. Yep thats a great idea.
As a shadow priest main that doesn't get invited to keys pass 17 and beg them and lie about my dps we need help!.
As an ele shaman, when my tank pulls big, i prepare myself to be below tank in dps.
As long as you are targeting the important mobs and killing them fast, that’s all that matters, bad players play for pad dps, good ones play for key speed
Chain lightning infinite chains when blizz
I love ele sham, it was my first toon ever in classic and BC when I was a kid. I've wanted to play one in retail but they seem to be in such a shitty place.
@@Dilllll26 this but unironically. If you mongo pull in throne for instance the reason you wipe will more likely be the sentinels or the big elementals and not the little guys running around just white swinging on the tank.
Let the Havoc have fun padding on murlocs or the infinitely respawning elementals while you actually kill the target that matters.
yes big pull = happy good brain chemicals
I think you have a lot of incredible takes on everything. But when it comes to buffs, I agree with what Max says at the beginning, it's incredibly difficult to find the right path, then if you do that a lot of classes can fix the buff and you end up in a much more "toxic" environment. Then m+ will always be "those strong classes". And yes, there will be staking, especially when it comes to raiding. We can't get around that if you go down that road.
I hope Blizzard finds the right way.
Thanks for an incredible "Poddy". Peace.
Tyrannical would be more fun if affixes rewarded you if you did them right rather than feel annoying. You'd also be able to push further
Just do what they did in mop where class buffs overlapped so you could mix and match freely, if you put it in hero choice then ppl that are forced to choose buff over a cool or thematic altercation of a skill is gonna feel real bad
take the extra raid buffs off of monk and giv them to dk and shaman
I like having the brickhouse Locks in keys now. Love not having to babysit a DPS.
Also Windwalker is the #1 class that needs a rework and it's not even close.
One new area to explore is the duration of Exhaustion. What if Mana Spring also took 1 second off Exhaustion with each Riptide/Lava Burst. Useless in some fights, must have in others. Overall good in M+.
As a pug player on EU i would say pugging after level 24 is really rough, Doing most 23-24 is "fine" but damn its hard to push over that without voice, i try to type down like a quick rotation on defensives/raid cds etc but man its harsh (Tyranical)
Fury warrior main here. Other classes have more than 1 generator and 1 spender?
The difference between playing a neglected spec vs a reworked meta melee. Yeah it can make you enjoy the game again.
watched it live. but watching it again. let's go
The problem with people being able to climb to +20 keys fast is a lot of them dont know the dungeon and get oneshot and can't get past a certain mechanic because they dont know it. I really wish even for myself that the earlier keys were harder. For example even heroic dungeons should've been harder instead of running through ignoring every mechanic.
True. It's also bad for like the low wyrm's crest range since it is pretty much impossible not to go 2->5->8->10/11->12/13 and be in a key you have no place being in either gearwise or knowledge wise and it isn't even the newer players fault. They ran their own key and are now 420 IL in a 13 key of a dungeon they've literally never done after like 2 hours of playing.
when you guys end up searching for content maybe invite class/spec leaders and make a theorycraft episode about how a rework could look.
Regarding raid buffs, instead of it being tied to a specific spec why not have it be determined by spec diversity. What I mean by that is if you have 3 different specs brought to a 20 man raid, then you get X raid buff, 6 specs add another buff, 9 specs...etc. I feel that something like this would make the raid comps more interesting.
Not sure how something like this would work in M+ though
Maybe have some key crafting system that allows the key to be crafted with X number of buffs
Remove all buffs!
Marksman and survival both need a huge rework
I think Marksman is 100% more fun than BM, it's just not worth to bring.
@@aFoolsMartyrI miss playing mm 😭😭
@@Maverekt yeah man, BM is so horribly boring, it's crazy.
I started playing in SL and mostly pvp. I got glad and play at 22 to 24 most days and it was fun. Now in DF i find my self hard stuck 1800 and only hit 2100 once in 3s. Ss was so fun because it was so easy to hit 2400. I say all of this to warn you m+ players. Enjoy the free io because when they take it away it feels bad.
For me the fact that some classes do both ST and AoE is great for those classes but horrible for anything else. The fact you can no longer have a spec thats slightly worse at ST to do big AoE or the other way around coz you just pick the one that does both kind of sucks.
Dk needs god, budha, ala and some indian gods too to at least be ok.
No damage, no mobility, no utility and frost rotation feels like playing classic
You're so fucking right lol - sometimes I just wonder what blizz thinks makes up for all their weaknesses, especially frost. Just because they are tanky they have to suck at everything else?
@dorki spill the beans on your cat artist lol I need to send them some love. This hard hat is so funny lol
Ele shaman needs to get 3% chance to multistrike :P effectively their mastery at 3% chance to proc
I thought I loved Outlaw until the rework came and I actually practiced it. It reminds me of spamming Shadowstrike on Sub, but now you have a window to spam anything and if you go outside the window you can't do damage for 30 seconds. Yeah no thank you.
u can play keep it rolling
I can't remember SL very well, but wasn't it different when it came to AoE/ST choice? I don't remember changing my talents every time I went from trash in a raid to a boss. Although maybe it was a thing and I just never did it. I played Vengeance so maybe it didn't matter
Maybe this is just me but I feel like the 21-24 range has felt so much worse pugging. Everytime I see someone with high IO from last season that was playing one of the god comp specs it really really feels like their IO is inflated and they often play worse than people with IO that was 300+ lower than theirs.
Going on the melee tanget at the end I think they need to just renormalize melee ranges. Playing something like Surv or Outlaw which have like 10 yard melee range permanently and then switching to say Windwalker or even Enh for its actual melee abilities just feels awful when you have to stand in the mobs colon pretty much.
They can keep things like Ret having its fairly decent range lead on other melee as a niche, but the minimum should be brought up.
Ret having Judgment/Blade/HoW/ExSent be ranged-ish is so nice. Final Verdict getting the extra range helps too.
When I swap to my enh shaman or monk I feel so gimped by having to just be up in shit.
With the amount of spell effects and mechanics I feel that all melee should have a base 5yd attack range just for clarity's sake.
I play zoomed decently far out and on my monk there are some times that I just can't see shit. Just giving that 5yds to be able to be out of the enemies asshole would help out a ton
whats the wa for the mythic + cc prio ordering they were talking about?
What if raid buffs stacks with diminishing returns? Imagine the fun comp builds with triple mage int buff. Or the melee squad warrior windfury rogue windwalker. In raids its frustrating because you never feel like you have everything. What if what ever weird comp showed up, you would have come interesting characteristics.
Honest question. This whole "Ret pally has to choose between AOE and Single target with their ability press". Doesn't EVEYRONE? Literally windwalker has to press rising sun kick OR Spinning Crane Kick. Mage presses Fire Storm OR Fire ball.
So what am I missing with that comment, which I hear a ton.
Lol they mean in the talent tree not what they actually press dude😂😂
And some classes like ret or arms have to give up either single target or aoe to a significant degree where other classes dont have to in m+
It's the talent builds. Specs like Ret or Aff have to completely gut their boss damage do do respectable AoE on trash and vice versa. Meanwhile specs like Havoc now or Fire (historically) get to do like 90% of their pure st in their pure AoE build.
Are hunter using the owl in dungeons now?
I agree with alts gearing being annoying but I would say multiple specs on the same toon is really problematic right now. You have way more incentive to create multiples of the same class to play different specs than keeping the same. Sure you keep the same tier set for all specs but just having one vault for all of your specs at the same time, + the raid lockout per toon instead of spec + the currency cap you are basically screwed really fast and most of your specs will have dog gear compared to if you played an alt instead. Which is objectively terrible design.
I still don't believe we wont get a small 2-3 boss raid. Ruby sanctum 2.0.
idk how ret can lose 22.5% st in a normal m+ build
Same with unholy dk, 482 simming 155k ST for 3mins while havoc is 190k+ LOL
Atleast Ret and UH used to excel on big aoe but now DH and BM shit on them there aswell as in cleave and ST
@@Dilllll26 155k ? I can only dream of this
Doing 140k with 478 ilvl
@@sylok6978 I mean that’s 482 bis with lust and army together. If you don’t get them on pull your dmg is pretty bad. Atleast Ret has some utility. The one positive is we are both invincible classes
The issue with "opportunity costs" is they only work if everyone is treated equally. It would be cool and impact comps if you had to bring 2 AoE specs and 1 boss blaster or whatever in which case specs like Aff could do either, but why do that when specs like Havoc or BM or what have you can do both in the same build?
Affliction is a spec that will pretty much never be good in M+ because it can't do boss damage in its AoE build and it can't do AoE damage if you take Dread Touch and Crescendo and whatnot.
Wanted you all to know. How awesome your pod is. I haven't played retail since legion launch. Yet I love this podcast. I have almost no idea what you are talking about but the passion is enthralling. Keep it up!
love the podcast
I think one big downside of aug is when 1 dps dies and cant be ressed then you are screwed. Also the gab between a good and bad aug is really big and most are just plain bad
Also dungeons like Waycrest and AD are kind of miserable since personal dps matters. If the non-aug gets picked by triad or goliath it is way worse than if you had a "standard" comp.
DK rework when?
Just give ele small amount spell crit damage on totem wrath. It sucks for them not having anything
Feral should have Leader of the Pack baseline, and boomie that spell aura they have for pvp. ret pally should have a improved ret aura, prot pally a improved dev aura, etc. Ele shammy they're skyfury.
Make Stormbolt do bonus dmg to stun immune targets again.
Give our interupts, stuns, cleanses, etc back baseline! Warriors should have berserker rage baseline!
Ah, yes DPS representation. You want to talk about funny representation numbers? Try and find Preservation evoker in healer chart xD And that spec is extremely amazing this season
Capping scaling for some mechanics and not others is sorta clunky and makes key level change the dmg pattern of a dungeon. They should just scale enemy health by 10% per key level and enemy damage by 8% per key level.
weird now we just do the same 8 dungeons over and over