Whoever’s making the chapter time marks for all these videos, props and kudos for them it’s such quality of life plus for me. And congrats to dratnos on 100k🎉🎉
The reason why S3 is doing so well is because 20 keys are balanced for an average joe now and in S3 we have a really good geart upgrade system where every week you can feel how your character becomes stronger.
Listening back to this months later when we have had plunderstorm and timerunning and hearing the cooks… honestly even our wildest dreams didn’t come close to what we got, and I’m glad someone at blizzard was left to cook
Love the convo -but- as a mid/low key player I think MDI is waaaay more entertaining. Its easier to follow 2 teams playing head to head than multiple on split-screen and the teams "failing" are more relatable
MDI is absolutely a much better thing to watch than TGP. By the time day 2 is done you know exactly who is going to win the TGP and all the runs are just going over and over and over again. Whereas in the MDI with a standard tournament format there's a much better chance for upsets to happen and it's not as much of a slog. I do think both tournaments should be ran, but one is watching the 100 meter dash and the other is watching a marathon.
100 % agree. TGP is interesting but lacks any excitement, we know who is going to win long before the last day. MDI has such a element of surprise that one bad thing could turn the whole tournament.
Not sure how I ended up on your podcast but you lads are the most down to earth harcore wow players like ever. Pleasure to listen to you! Please keep it going!
MDI vs TGP. You sitting and compare 100 meter races against marathon races. For me, it's fun to see that it goes quickly and that they don't have that much time. There is no room for mistakes in MDI. You can just go next in TGP so there is room for mistakes. It's more fun for me to see no mistakes and the clearn pulls than it is to see smaller pulls. Love your guys Pod ^^
Thank you for bringing up the perspective of the average playerbase Dratnos. Timing all 8 dungeons in +20 puts you at the top 10% in Raiderio. Doing 25+ is a top 1% player. The vast majority of people are doing 10-20's and never any higher.
If they aren't planning on doing the tuning that everyone is asking for, then it would be nice if they would at least put out a blue post explaning their reasoning/philosophy/goal for the season. Or if they are planning on doing stuff some sort of update post... really just any sort of communication would be nice.
Gearing is in a great place right now which I think helps extend how interested people are in the content. I play less than 10 hours a week and I have 2 characters at 475 and I only pug raids and so far only normal. The keys feel easier this season and the raid at least in normal is much easier this tier so people can push much further than normal before hitting the normal season walls.
14:58 You make some good points, but let's be real: the main reason was the mythic dungeon weekly quest. The reward for completing 4 mythic dungeons was a heroic raid item. So every main and their alt did 4 mythics no matter the weekly affixes :D Oh never mind. They finally solved the puzzle at 18:53
I love the commentary on MDI, however we should remember we are dealing with Blizz, and the idea to have MDI exclusively sounds like a high level person making an arbitrary decision. They only had resources for one tournament, because of people working on the xpac, and they are more familiar with or personally like MDI the most. Never forget that in a perfect world we would make decisions based on the players and viewers, but we still live in a corporate world with Blizz even though they have improved immensely over the last couple of years. Great podcast guys, keep up the awesome content and have a wonderful festive period.
Yo for real the like mario kart m+ idea is fucking genius. Like imagine 2 teams running a 30 Freehold and you can just spawn like an extra Squaller or some shit into their pull. Maybe even just have it be an exhibition match for fun to test it out. Like every 20% you get something to hinder the other team. Inflict the enemy team with a 6s un-dispellable slow during cannon barrage or the shotgun waves, etc. I think that would be dope to watch
Challenge Mode used to be its own difficulty (before we even had Mythic) and it actually did have more mechanics and more trash than Heroic. For example, the gong in Siege of Niuzao only existed in CM so some of the dungeons were pretty different compared to Heroic. The dungeons themselves were actually hard to time on gold. You got scaled down to the same item level as what dropped from Heroic dungeons but of course you could cheese it by having lots of sockets and overpowered raid trinkets. The way classes worked back then, especially DPS with snapshotting mechanics on DoTs and some buffs not to mention tanks with Vengeance, is night and day compared to now. You really could outskill the content if you knew how to play your spec. There were also countless mechanics you could cheese with spell reflect, vengeance, grounding totems and weird snapping spots that never really got looked at by Blizzard. We also had way more AoE interrupts, stuns and stops compared to now, but there were also more things to interrupt all the time or you would wipe. Even disc priests had silence... All of this combined made it very easy to boost people if you were a stacked, geared, coordinated group. But for the average player, CMs were not easy and most people could not even get into the content at all. I remember spending months getting all my BiS CM items together before doing them on my alts. Also rogues were not viable at all in any spec and had to get completely boosted. I remember my CM boosting team rotating who got boosted on their rouge alt to get those sets done. When was the last time you saw a rogue wearing the CM set in the wild? On one hand I think it's great that they bring stuff back, but if they're going to give out all the old transmog sets it would feel kinda shit if it was as easy as timing +20s right now. MoP and WoD CM transmogs are pretty much the only group PvE cosmetics you can show off that took some skills to get.
As somebody who is swimming around in 20s... it's entirely fucking untrue that these things aren't a problem in 20s. They're not a problem in 20s for people who play at YOUR tier. A TON of people who play in 20s complain about and hate basically all the same shit you guys talk about. Ya'll gotta stop talking like 20s are some easy lowbie content people just smash.
I much prefer MDI to TGP, as a spectator. It is 1 team v 1 team trying to finish a dungeon fastest. It's way more easy to watch. Whoever finishes first, wins. Easy. The Great Push is too long, similar to world first race, you never know when they are gonna get the kill or hit the peak dungeon it just keeps going and going.
I think tyrannical is hated more because dying on a mob pack you can ress back and re join the group. If instead you die on a boss with no cr available the DPS might struggle to do mechanics like the thorn in WM and so on … so yeah tyrannical is much harder.
Bro did Max call Holly an intern? She's literally Executive Producer and Vice President on WoW. Clearly she's involved to some extent in this whole MoP Challenge Mode stuff.
People talking about keys are so easy this season aren't pugging on a healer. Tanking is faceroll this season and DPS is really easy since you can just shovel all the affix responsibility on to the healer. Healing is a whole different reality. Healing is so far from the other 2 roles it's actually insane.
agree with dorki, would love to have bot dps who do max dmg and use all their CDs/kicks correctly.. and/or a tank that would do the same. would be so fun to heal M+ that way
I think in season 4 it'd be sick if you get a key with either tyran/fort but you pick the other two affixes, but if you do the same two affixes it increases the scaling of it until you complete another key with two different affixes and of equal or higher key level. Could riff off that idea for a bit.
They should make TGP or MDI like event simply for lols… or do a twist to either TGP or MDI. Where you play the lottery and you get random team members from other teams. Let’s says Naowh who usually has Zelia as healer… get Ellesmere… or Growl. I mean, practicing and mastering the dungeons takes a lot of time and mental energy, but believe that way participants would be able to unload their minds for a bit and have some fun and variety in their game
My perspective on mdi vs tgp: I can’t see what’s happening in the tgp. It’s hard to see on two screens in the mdi. When you bump that to 4 or more? Impossible. Also, it’s impossible to watch how a team does a dungeon as a whole. The cameras are being swapped or our attention is being drawn to some other pull. I can’t get into anything and I’m so uninvested. Maybe if there were a way to start the default keys higher and do shorter stints of only two teams, it would be more viewer-friendly. No scoring changes or anything, the teams are still going for top score and are not concerned with the head-to-head match. Could help the teams have a few more breaks during the day to recharge. Maybe that’s a cook, but I want to see some changes that make tgp watchable
Some of the Echo players said that they prefer MDI simply because TGP is way too exhausting as it is. 15 hours of extremely intense gameplay in one weekend is too much. One unlucky wipe can kick you out of the tournament (what happened to Mandatory).
Yeah but other player complained about MDI because it's mostly about finding strats, safe spots, snap spots so you can't (or should not) stream your training ... concidering most of them lives by streaming and have 0 sponsors it's weeks of works where they just can't earn money to find out the mdi day that you didn't had that strategie and you finish 8th with 0$ in your poket. I think whar hapened to mandatory last tgp was first theire fault ... the healer didn't jumped, they fall out and deplet, so it's not like random bs ; and also a bit because of the format where the day was just about not making any errors. In the end all the team had the level and it was all about being consistent, in a way it's normal ag this level of the competition.
Another reason Why so Many players played early weeks this season, is that the end of last season was so dead. I know personally at least 10+ people that dindt play m+ for the last month or so cuz of the meta. And then the hype to start playing new content and a new comp sparked some energy
Idk from 27s, but 20s feel over-all easier this season than ever before. I got all my portals earlier in season than I ever have before. A +20 in season 3 feels comparable to a 17 in seasons 1 and 2.
It is puzzling why they don't make serious attempts to tune dungeons so that a +25 is equally difficult across all dungeons. What is the point of having some dungeons be dramatically harder than others?
My cook is instead of fated being one big season that spans like 4 months experimenting with a lot of things, you have four distinct mini-seasons each doing something vastly different. So season 4.1 is doing only positive affixes, season 4.2 has only tyran and fort, season 4.3 runs with... something idk not a game designer Each mini season has its own rating and you basically got 4 weeks to push as much as you can, no ilvl increases in between ofc
Just want to mention that PreachGaming states once on his stream that the expansion will come out in August and i think once on the Echo RWF event that it will come out in August, but as it was not mentioned anywhere else it probably did not gain traction.
It’s Christmas time. You close out your sprints, lots of folks take vacation and the team goes on don’t break anything till January. It’s not that complicated. 😊
some of these bosses pugs absolutely still struggle with at 20s so I don't think that's the reason they aren't being fixed. 3rd boss of everbloom is a pug annihilator at those levels. Rise timer is super tight at any level.
follower dungeons in theory should be great. one thing wow fails completely is allowing newer player to learn and grow into the game, there is almost no stepping stones and the experience of levelling and starting Max level content is insanely cringe. having a place where players can learn and practice by themselves or with 1 friend in the safety net of NPCs is fantastic.
Last season M+ was so damn fun as a tank. My routes really mattered and you had to get creative to time. This season you cruise through stuff and risk 250 one shot mechanics from each boss and it just doesn’t feel fun.
If they want to play around dnd/conc, i think they should be off the gcd or baked into a rotational skill like blood boil and it follows you. look at nu wa ground ability in smite for example.
I can't speak for everyone but i noticed alot of returning players like myself (after over a decade of little interest). I personally was enticed by the War Within announcment and pre-ordering it gave me Dragonflight at the same time, so felt worth the money even if I don't plan to stay after this season (I can come back and try war within).
A lot of expansions I've quit after the first raid and came back in the final patch. some expansions i play all the way through, generally if i have the free time. I think the first and final patches are likely to be the most generally popular although i have no data to back that up.
Speaking of Dungeons: can we actually take a moment to appreciate Dawn of the Infinite? This has to be one of the weirdest and coolest dungeons they did...Maybe ever? It's very unique, diverse and has amazing pacing. Only downside is pathing, but once you get a hold of it you actually realize that it's very convenient. Oh, and when it felt like a 5-man raid previous season? Awesome. Probably the best time I had since 10-man raids, honestly. Absolute banger of a dungeon + loot is genuinely great
Only thing I don't like about it is that circular trash area for sands of time boss. It's such a terrible room to be in. Other than that I love the dungeon
As for retention, my goals this patch were to get aotc and keystone hero. I was able to achieve that in 2 weeks. I'll be back in like 4-5 months to play for 2 weeks again.
yup. took me like... 3? weeks to pug aotc and I already had 2500 like week 2. IMO the raid was just FINE and the dungeons aren't super fun since there's too many frustration points so I'm tempted to just quit until the next expansion
I wanted to add my 2 cents into the bolstering discussion, I think what Dorki said about the 20s being okay is definitely the reason why you don't see action from blizzard. you can pull slower and still time a 20 without making a raid boss out of a mob. I know that the idea of pulling slower or smaller is often brought up as not fun, but they probably don't see it as a problem because a 20 is doable even if you are not triple pulling into a lasher pack.
In regards to not balancing dungeons BUT fixing the bugs it's very simple. The people in charge of bugfixing and tuning are different. Programmers do most bugfixing, designers do the balancing. Designers are very likely busy with upcoming patches and Hero specs right now hence why there's little tuning at the minute. It's just staffing issue imho. Which is silly to think of because it's Blizzard and they could afford more designers but it is how it is.
Week6 looks like a major drop-off just like S1 week2 for the same reason: Xmas Back then (2022) it was -29% (according to these flimsy graphs) this year it also looks like 25-27%.
I don't think MoP challenge modes were THAT easy. You were squished to 463 ilvl which was the blue 5-man heroic gear. You had zero haste or mana regen, I remember needing perfect pulls, no deaths, invis pots, sitting in those orange mana crystals while tanks had CDs rolling, etc. The world best times I think were like 2/3 of the gold time
Most world records were around 3 or 4 minutes. I think all dungeons have been done by a 2-man team at the time. It was definitely hard for casuals (and Max is wrong saying they were NM dungeons, both MoP and WoD CM had extra mechanics in them that didn't appear in NM/HM), but once you knew what you were doing it was pretty easy. If you're doing 20s nowadays, you wouldn't struggle in MoP CM at all.
Hmm, I seem to remember them being harder. Maybe I was casual, in 5 mans at least. Looking at leaderboards, only scarlet halls was under 4 minutes. But looking through these times I noticed that all the top times are the same couple of teams that must have no lifed them into oblivion. I had all golds on 4 characters and realm best times on a couple of them, but maybe my realm was dead. But yeah. Our guild was ~100 world rank for raid progress, and I solo healed heroic Garrosh for realm first/world 64th kill, and I still remember the challenge modes being somewhat difficult to gold for the first time. @@Senen33
@@hawkman8706 Halls and Monastery were both under 4 minutes, but Palace, Brewery and Gate were just over 4 minutes. The two Temple and Scholomance were in the 5-6 minutes range. There's only SPM that broke the 7 minutes barrier but it had the largest timer by a lot (24 minutes iirc?) so nowhere near two third of the timer. And again, I'm not saying the dungeons were easy the first time around, we struggled to even finish some of them early on. But with some practice, they really weren't that bad. It's hard to compare with m+ since my skill level is not the same and m+ is not gear capped and doesn't have short timer with unlimited retries. But I think the comparison with current 20s is fair.
Week 2 of S1 DF was bursting grievous tyrannical, which is completely un-healable unless you were a rdruid or pevoker. Which is why there was a huge drop off. @thepoddyc @dratnos
Red turtle shell shoots the other team…… what about a PvP/M+ crossover. Both teams in the same dungeon. Competing for the most % or kills. Similar to how open world is when tagging highest % of a boss.
I don't like the "it doesn't matter in a +20" line of thought. It comes from the perspective of people who slam keys and easily breeze through 20s. I feel like Blizzard has set up m+ and 20's to be the goal for everyone to eventually achieve and anything higher is for the dedicated crowd. Those same mechanics are still very problematic in these low keys. I'll use the same example like the bolstering flowers. A lot of the playerbase isn't going to be able to slam enough damage to where bolstering doesn't matter. They aren't going to perfectly kick everything, chain cc a mob, and/or use recognize that a defensive needs to be used there. On other weeks, that level of key and everything leading up to it doesn't acclimate the player to that level of execution. For these types of packs, those mobs are required and it is already basically the smallest pull it can be. It's not like someone is doing a gigapull and getting punished because they didn't respect the affixes that week. Part of the reason this bothers me is that this always trickles down to being a healer issue. Maybe some people like that, but I hate having to be super selective in the keys that I do on some weeks because I know that I will have to work 20x harder on a certain key or with a certain group. It's only a 20, but it feels multiple key levels higher because of the players in the group. Pugging only 1 key and looking for specific score/ilvl on people before joining is a really cringe thing to be incentivized to do. I understand when people are doing that for big keys and big io, but I'm just trying to get my vault done/farm crests and have some fun with other people.
![Final Fantasy 14 Fan Reacts to EVERY World of Warcraft Cutscene For The FIRST TIME! [1]](/img/1.gif)
Dratnos’ energy is on point. His suit is tailored perfectly. He’s transcended, probably moisturized and unbothered as well. The people’s champion.
He really is I’m happy he’s getting so much traction in the wow community happy for him
Whenever a girl calls me lame or i remember it i think of dantons and think they would probably think that of him too
Banger suit dratnos. Grats on 100k 😁
Whoever’s making the chapter time marks for all these videos, props and kudos for them it’s such quality of life plus for me. And congrats to dratnos on 100k🎉🎉
o7
Suit Dratnos is the sexiest thing in wow. Blizzard devs are going to have to replace him with a fruit bowl
Dratnos vault videos go hard. I'm here for Dratnos
I feel like Dratnos will be the villain in one of the upcoming expacs
Bro we need Dratnos to be like that casting next race ;D
The reason why S3 is doing so well is because 20 keys are balanced for an average joe now and in S3 we have a really good geart upgrade system where every week you can feel how your character becomes stronger.
Dratnos has evolved into his final form 🔥
What if this isnt even the final form. Imagine
Still a couple gems to socket
max needs to play with some actual bad pugs. Bolstering can for sure be a problem in 20s,21s,22s
Funny thing is he did at points in Shadowlands, so deep down in his mind somewhere, he knows how bad it is.
Listening back to this months later when we have had plunderstorm and timerunning and hearing the cooks… honestly even our wildest dreams didn’t come close to what we got, and I’m glad someone at blizzard was left to cook
Love the convo -but- as a mid/low key player I think MDI is waaaay more entertaining. Its easier to follow 2 teams playing head to head than multiple on split-screen and the teams "failing" are more relatable
MDI is absolutely a much better thing to watch than TGP.
By the time day 2 is done you know exactly who is going to win the TGP and all the runs are just going over and over and over again. Whereas in the MDI with a standard tournament format there's a much better chance for upsets to happen and it's not as much of a slog.
I do think both tournaments should be ran, but one is watching the 100 meter dash and the other is watching a marathon.
100 % agree. TGP is interesting but lacks any excitement, we know who is going to win long before the last day. MDI has such a element of surprise that one bad thing could turn the whole tournament.
Not sure how I ended up on your podcast but you lads are the most down to earth harcore wow players like ever. Pleasure to listen to you! Please keep it going!
MDI vs TGP. You sitting and compare 100 meter races against marathon races. For me, it's fun to see that it goes quickly and that they don't have that much time. There is no room for mistakes in MDI. You can just go next in TGP so there is room for mistakes.
It's more fun for me to see no mistakes and the clearn pulls than it is to see smaller pulls.
Love your guys Pod ^^
Thank you for bringing up the perspective of the average playerbase Dratnos. Timing all 8 dungeons in +20 puts you at the top 10% in Raiderio. Doing 25+ is a top 1% player. The vast majority of people are doing 10-20's and never any higher.
HS/Uni semester ended last week, not surprising there was an uptick in runs imo
If they aren't planning on doing the tuning that everyone is asking for, then it would be nice if they would at least put out a blue post explaning their reasoning/philosophy/goal for the season. Or if they are planning on doing stuff some sort of update post... really just any sort of communication would be nice.
Gearing is in a great place right now which I think helps extend how interested people are in the content. I play less than 10 hours a week and I have 2 characters at 475 and I only pug raids and so far only normal. The keys feel easier this season and the raid at least in normal is much easier this tier so people can push much further than normal before hitting the normal season walls.
14:58 You make some good points, but let's be real: the main reason was the mythic dungeon weekly quest. The reward for completing 4 mythic dungeons was a heroic raid item. So every main and their alt did 4 mythics no matter the weekly affixes :D
Oh never mind. They finally solved the puzzle at 18:53
Oh shit thats suit is actually insane xD
I love the commentary on MDI, however we should remember we are dealing with Blizz, and the idea to have MDI exclusively sounds like a high level person making an arbitrary decision. They only had resources for one tournament, because of people working on the xpac, and they are more familiar with or personally like MDI the most. Never forget that in a perfect world we would make decisions based on the players and viewers, but we still live in a corporate world with Blizz even though they have improved immensely over the last couple of years.
Great podcast guys, keep up the awesome content and have a wonderful festive period.
Yo for real the like mario kart m+ idea is fucking genius.
Like imagine 2 teams running a 30 Freehold and you can just spawn like an extra Squaller or some shit into their pull.
Maybe even just have it be an exhibition match for fun to test it out.
Like every 20% you get something to hinder the other team. Inflict the enemy team with a 6s un-dispellable slow during cannon barrage or the shotgun waves, etc. I think that would be dope to watch
holy fuck that suit jacket is a banger
New episode let's goooo! Love the pod!
Challenge Mode used to be its own difficulty (before we even had Mythic) and it actually did have more mechanics and more trash than Heroic. For example, the gong in Siege of Niuzao only existed in CM so some of the dungeons were pretty different compared to Heroic. The dungeons themselves were actually hard to time on gold. You got scaled down to the same item level as what dropped from Heroic dungeons but of course you could cheese it by having lots of sockets and overpowered raid trinkets.
The way classes worked back then, especially DPS with snapshotting mechanics on DoTs and some buffs not to mention tanks with Vengeance, is night and day compared to now. You really could outskill the content if you knew how to play your spec. There were also countless mechanics you could cheese with spell reflect, vengeance, grounding totems and weird snapping spots that never really got looked at by Blizzard. We also had way more AoE interrupts, stuns and stops compared to now, but there were also more things to interrupt all the time or you would wipe. Even disc priests had silence...
All of this combined made it very easy to boost people if you were a stacked, geared, coordinated group. But for the average player, CMs were not easy and most people could not even get into the content at all. I remember spending months getting all my BiS CM items together before doing them on my alts. Also rogues were not viable at all in any spec and had to get completely boosted. I remember my CM boosting team rotating who got boosted on their rouge alt to get those sets done. When was the last time you saw a rogue wearing the CM set in the wild?
On one hand I think it's great that they bring stuff back, but if they're going to give out all the old transmog sets it would feel kinda shit if it was as easy as timing +20s right now. MoP and WoD CM transmogs are pretty much the only group PvE cosmetics you can show off that took some skills to get.
As somebody who is swimming around in 20s... it's entirely fucking untrue that these things aren't a problem in 20s. They're not a problem in 20s for people who play at YOUR tier. A TON of people who play in 20s complain about and hate basically all the same shit you guys talk about. Ya'll gotta stop talking like 20s are some easy lowbie content people just smash.
dammn nice suit
That suit is an absolute banger......congrats
I much prefer MDI to TGP, as a spectator. It is 1 team v 1 team trying to finish a dungeon fastest. It's way more easy to watch. Whoever finishes first, wins. Easy. The Great Push is too long, similar to world first race, you never know when they are gonna get the kill or hit the peak dungeon it just keeps going and going.
Amen. TGP goes on for far too long. It's not friendly for people who don't have significant amounts of time to invest into watching.
I think tyrannical is hated more because dying on a mob pack you can ress back and re join the group. If instead you die on a boss with no cr available the DPS might struggle to do mechanics like the thorn in WM and so on … so yeah tyrannical is much harder.
I want brawlers guild back so bad
Bro did Max call Holly an intern? She's literally Executive Producer and Vice President on WoW. Clearly she's involved to some extent in this whole MoP Challenge Mode stuff.
Yes he did haha, obviously just an oversight
Grats Suitnos on 100k subs! 🥂🥂🍻🍻
Dratnos should rock the bar mitzvah suit every day; homie came in on a new level of cool.
Cant emphasize enough how spot on Max is about improving about the game in the patreon question
People talking about keys are so easy this season aren't pugging on a healer. Tanking is faceroll this season and DPS is really easy since you can just shovel all the affix responsibility on to the healer. Healing is a whole different reality. Healing is so far from the other 2 roles it's actually insane.
Fuck man Dratnos looking baller. Love seeing the man get more subs he deserves it
Thanks for the laugh, choked on my coffee when I saw that suit 😂😂
agree with dorki, would love to have bot dps who do max dmg and use all their CDs/kicks correctly.. and/or a tank that would do the same. would be so fun to heal M+ that way
I think in season 4 it'd be sick if you get a key with either tyran/fort but you pick the other two affixes, but if you do the same two affixes it increases the scaling of it until you complete another key with two different affixes and of equal or higher key level. Could riff off that idea for a bit.
They should make TGP or MDI like event simply for lols… or do a twist to either TGP or MDI. Where you play the lottery and you get random team members from other teams. Let’s says Naowh who usually has Zelia as healer… get Ellesmere… or Growl. I mean, practicing and mastering the dungeons takes a lot of time and mental energy, but believe that way participants would be able to unload their minds for a bit and have some fun and variety in their game
Or just do raider IO event. Where top let’s say 10 players get paired up with random players. And see how they can adapt to each other 🤷♂️
My perspective on mdi vs tgp: I can’t see what’s happening in the tgp. It’s hard to see on two screens in the mdi. When you bump that to 4 or more? Impossible. Also, it’s impossible to watch how a team does a dungeon as a whole. The cameras are being swapped or our attention is being drawn to some other pull. I can’t get into anything and I’m so uninvested. Maybe if there were a way to start the default keys higher and do shorter stints of only two teams, it would be more viewer-friendly. No scoring changes or anything, the teams are still going for top score and are not concerned with the head-to-head match. Could help the teams have a few more breaks during the day to recharge. Maybe that’s a cook, but I want to see some changes that make tgp watchable
Some of the Echo players said that they prefer MDI simply because TGP is way too exhausting as it is. 15 hours of extremely intense gameplay in one weekend is too much. One unlucky wipe can kick you out of the tournament (what happened to Mandatory).
Yeah but other player complained about MDI because it's mostly about finding strats, safe spots, snap spots so you can't (or should not) stream your training ... concidering most of them lives by streaming and have 0 sponsors it's weeks of works where they just can't earn money to find out the mdi day that you didn't had that strategie and you finish 8th with 0$ in your poket.
I think whar hapened to mandatory last tgp was first theire fault ... the healer didn't jumped, they fall out and deplet, so it's not like random bs ; and also a bit because of the format where the day was just about not making any errors.
In the end all the team had the level and it was all about being consistent, in a way it's normal ag this level of the competition.
@@phenxskyzz4195 Why are you telling me this?
Another reason Why so Many players played early weeks this season, is that the end of last season was so dead. I know personally at least 10+ people that dindt play m+ for the last month or so cuz of the meta. And then the hype to start playing new content and a new comp sparked some energy
Idk from 27s, but 20s feel over-all easier this season than ever before. I got all my portals earlier in season than I ever have before. A +20 in season 3 feels comparable to a 17 in seasons 1 and 2.
It is puzzling why they don't make serious attempts to tune dungeons so that a +25 is equally difficult across all dungeons. What is the point of having some dungeons be dramatically harder than others?
i can relate more to TGP, but enjoy more watching MDI
My cook is instead of fated being one big season that spans like 4 months experimenting with a lot of things, you have four distinct mini-seasons each doing something vastly different.
So season 4.1 is doing only positive affixes, season 4.2 has only tyran and fort, season 4.3 runs with... something idk not a game designer
Each mini season has its own rating and you basically got 4 weeks to push as much as you can, no ilvl increases in between ofc
Fuck dude didn’t even know I wasn’t subbed to Dratnos. Homie deserves it!! Subbed now!
Watching TGP is rough at times because of the screen format. Very difficult to see what is going on when the screen is spilt into fourths.
Just want to mention that PreachGaming states once on his stream that the expansion will come out in August and i think once on the Echo RWF event that it will come out in August, but as it was not mentioned anywhere else it probably did not gain traction.
This reads like you had a stroke while typing it
It can have that effect on stupid people
A suit is matching jacket and pants :thonk:
My hope/speculation for the black flag is the Nightsquall’s fleet comes out of a rolling fog - straight out of Pirates of the Caribbean
It’s Christmas time. You close out your sprints, lots of folks take vacation and the team goes on don’t break anything till January. It’s not that complicated. 😊
some of these bosses pugs absolutely still struggle with at 20s so I don't think that's the reason they aren't being fixed. 3rd boss of everbloom is a pug annihilator at those levels. Rise timer is super tight at any level.
follower dungeons in theory should be great. one thing wow fails completely is allowing newer player to learn and grow into the game, there is almost no stepping stones and the experience of levelling and starting Max level content is insanely cringe. having a place where players can learn and practice by themselves or with 1 friend in the safety net of NPCs is fantastic.
Growl catching strays with that bot healer comment 🤣
I feel like I already do follower dungeons given some of the "people" in my groups.
Last season M+ was so damn fun as a tank. My routes really mattered and you had to get creative to time. This season you cruise through stuff and risk 250 one shot mechanics from each boss and it just doesn’t feel fun.
You boys should put links to your youtube channels in the description
If they want to play around dnd/conc, i think they should be off the gcd or baked into a rotational skill like blood boil and it follows you. look at nu wa ground ability in smite for example.
I can't speak for everyone but i noticed alot of returning players like myself (after over a decade of little interest). I personally was enticed by the War Within announcment and pre-ordering it gave me Dragonflight at the same time, so felt worth the money even if I don't plan to stay after this season (I can come back and try war within).
My man lookin so fresh, I put on a suit just to watch this
A brewmaster and a hunter held the fastest challenge mode times in the world back then. Just those 2.
A lot of expansions I've quit after the first raid and came back in the final patch. some expansions i play all the way through, generally if i have the free time. I think the first and final patches are likely to be the most generally popular although i have no data to back that up.
Speaking of Dungeons: can we actually take a moment to appreciate Dawn of the Infinite? This has to be one of the weirdest and coolest dungeons they did...Maybe ever? It's very unique, diverse and has amazing pacing. Only downside is pathing, but once you get a hold of it you actually realize that it's very convenient. Oh, and when it felt like a 5-man raid previous season? Awesome. Probably the best time I had since 10-man raids, honestly. Absolute banger of a dungeon + loot is genuinely great
Only thing I don't like about it is that circular trash area for sands of time boss. It's such a terrible room to be in. Other than that I love the dungeon
As for retention, my goals this patch were to get aotc and keystone hero. I was able to achieve that in 2 weeks. I'll be back in like 4-5 months to play for 2 weeks again.
yup. took me like... 3? weeks to pug aotc and I already had 2500 like week 2. IMO the raid was just FINE and the dungeons aren't super fun since there's too many frustration points so I'm tempted to just quit until the next expansion
Dratnos the off-brand perfume door-to-door seller
I dunno those necrotic bursts or whatever that aoe is that the mob does in Everbloom sure did wipe us a lot in a 20 last week.
“Brain globals are worth saving” 😂 brilliantly said
I wanted to add my 2 cents into the bolstering discussion, I think what Dorki said about the 20s being okay is definitely the reason why you don't see action from blizzard. you can pull slower and still time a 20 without making a raid boss out of a mob. I know that the idea of pulling slower or smaller is often brought up as not fun, but they probably don't see it as a problem because a 20 is doable even if you are not triple pulling into a lasher pack.
and yet an absolute fuckton of tanks pull crazy in 20s and it ends up being an issue even not on bolstering weeks.
Does anyone REALLY wanna do Fortified/Raging Brackenhide once AGAIN? No thanks! Don't need "Augvoker/Priest" mandatory for one more season.... 😡😡
sheeesh Dripnos poppin'
BFA was not during COVID (covid was 2019/2020 trailing in 2021)
ÿo, that suit is Sweet !
What about have a tgp qualifier and have the finals as MDI
The only criticism I have is that the length is only 1 hour. :)
Holy shit dratnos looks classy AF! I’m kinda shook ngl.
You guys need to talk about the state of Unholy DK.... it does tank damage without PI every 3 minutes
That seems exaggerated. Unless your tanks are always over 100k dps
dratnos dressed like azami from r6
In regards to not balancing dungeons BUT fixing the bugs it's very simple. The people in charge of bugfixing and tuning are different. Programmers do most bugfixing, designers do the balancing. Designers are very likely busy with upcoming patches and Hero specs right now hence why there's little tuning at the minute. It's just staffing issue imho. Which is silly to think of because it's Blizzard and they could afford more designers but it is how it is.
Small, tiny, miniscule, microscopic indie company.
Dratnos has become the face of wow now
YEESSS, Dratnos!
Does anyone know if the M+ WAs Max talked about in a previous episode are available anywhere?
killer intro boys
PODDY C BIG BRICK ENERGY
Week6 looks like a major drop-off just like S1 week2 for the same reason: Xmas
Back then (2022) it was -29% (according to these flimsy graphs) this year it also looks like 25-27%.
Dratnos all wasy looks baked on the podcast
Who knew the C in "PoddyC" stood for Class
Dratnos has the DRIP
Dratnos farmed my like with that suit❤
I don't think MoP challenge modes were THAT easy. You were squished to 463 ilvl which was the blue 5-man heroic gear. You had zero haste or mana regen, I remember needing perfect pulls, no deaths, invis pots, sitting in those orange mana crystals while tanks had CDs rolling, etc. The world best times I think were like 2/3 of the gold time
Most world records were around 3 or 4 minutes. I think all dungeons have been done by a 2-man team at the time.
It was definitely hard for casuals (and Max is wrong saying they were NM dungeons, both MoP and WoD CM had extra mechanics in them that didn't appear in NM/HM), but once you knew what you were doing it was pretty easy. If you're doing 20s nowadays, you wouldn't struggle in MoP CM at all.
Hmm, I seem to remember them being harder. Maybe I was casual, in 5 mans at least. Looking at leaderboards, only scarlet halls was under 4 minutes. But looking through these times I noticed that all the top times are the same couple of teams that must have no lifed them into oblivion. I had all golds on 4 characters and realm best times on a couple of them, but maybe my realm was dead. But yeah. Our guild was ~100 world rank for raid progress, and I solo healed heroic Garrosh for realm first/world 64th kill, and I still remember the challenge modes being somewhat difficult to gold for the first time. @@Senen33
@@hawkman8706 Halls and Monastery were both under 4 minutes, but Palace, Brewery and Gate were just over 4 minutes. The two Temple and Scholomance were in the 5-6 minutes range. There's only SPM that broke the 7 minutes barrier but it had the largest timer by a lot (24 minutes iirc?) so nowhere near two third of the timer.
And again, I'm not saying the dungeons were easy the first time around, we struggled to even finish some of them early on. But with some practice, they really weren't that bad.
It's hard to compare with m+ since my skill level is not the same and m+ is not gear capped and doesn't have short timer with unlimited retries. But I think the comparison with current 20s is fair.
Week 2 of S1 DF was bursting grievous tyrannical, which is completely un-healable unless you were a rdruid or pevoker. Which is why there was a huge drop off. @thepoddyc @dratnos
I have a theory. Season 2 healing felt unbelievably unfair. I have a feeling that’s why season 2 was so low.
The main problem with Blizzard and these discussions is that you don't list "fun" on the top of your list
Well damn Dratnos, lookin' handsome af
Red turtle shell shoots the other team…… what about a PvP/M+ crossover. Both teams in the same dungeon. Competing for the most % or kills. Similar to how open world is when tagging highest % of a boss.
dratnos that suit is HOT brother, god damn
I don't like the "it doesn't matter in a +20" line of thought. It comes from the perspective of people who slam keys and easily breeze through 20s. I feel like Blizzard has set up m+ and 20's to be the goal for everyone to eventually achieve and anything higher is for the dedicated crowd. Those same mechanics are still very problematic in these low keys. I'll use the same example like the bolstering flowers. A lot of the playerbase isn't going to be able to slam enough damage to where bolstering doesn't matter. They aren't going to perfectly kick everything, chain cc a mob, and/or use recognize that a defensive needs to be used there. On other weeks, that level of key and everything leading up to it doesn't acclimate the player to that level of execution. For these types of packs, those mobs are required and it is already basically the smallest pull it can be. It's not like someone is doing a gigapull and getting punished because they didn't respect the affixes that week. Part of the reason this bothers me is that this always trickles down to being a healer issue. Maybe some people like that, but I hate having to be super selective in the keys that I do on some weeks because I know that I will have to work 20x harder on a certain key or with a certain group. It's only a 20, but it feels multiple key levels higher because of the players in the group. Pugging only 1 key and looking for specific score/ilvl on people before joining is a really cringe thing to be incentivized to do. I understand when people are doing that for big keys and big io, but I'm just trying to get my vault done/farm crests and have some fun with other people.
Convoke was way more than 1% worse than Ravenous Frenzy. And the wf guild won using Convoke in that (second?) tier.