Wish instead of "Battle Royale" it was Rogue Like, Dungeon Crawler (through BRD?, or some old Raid), where with team of 2-4 people earn XP, random powers and build your team to finish dungeon and beat the boss.
I agree with Dratnos' take on the current state of retail - I love m+, I enjoy 20 man raids, I like being able to use addons to personalise my UI exactly as I want it, I like the complexity of the game. It's great atm. Discussions about simplifying wow are a bit odd to me - it's complexity is one of the best things about it. If you like simple games, just play wow simply, it is already possible to play the game only using 10 spells. It is already possible to go up against world bosses with 40+ players. No need to remove the complexity.
@59:30 the only reason someone would WANT 40 man raids is because they want to show up, individually have very little impact or personal responsibility towards the fight, and not feel any stress while completing the encounter quickly and easily.
And that is bad? Having a place to chill with a few buddies while joining some huge raid, mess around easy bosses kill something, get some loot and have fun and good time. FUN IN WOW PROHIBITED, ONLY SWEAT!
@@brkus2665 I would rather... having 9 friends that play WoW (or a sane number of 4) and go into a situation with 0 expectation, than deal with say... 30 other people+my friends.
@@fleshhunter8703 that is the point of it all. Preference and as long as you acknowledge that you are fine. And not go into it this is correct this is wrong. It's just preference.
A couple things. I wouldn’t mind seeing instead of the mega dungeon type of deal like DOTI make it a small 10man raid for mid tier content and see how it goes. And for M+ I don’t mind the depletion. It’s rewarding when you do time the higher keys and can learn when you do brick it or deplete them
probably 90% or higher of people running m+ wouldn't just restart over and over without depletes. the only thing that would change for the vast majority of people is that they wouldn't get punished as hard when there's a single wipe and someone bails and bricks the key
100% this, I also don't enjoy spending 90% of my time on homework keys to hope it rolls in a high doable key. It's the same reason why I don't enjoy farming raids.
@@Addictingdrugsbad yeah, what is wrong about that? If it happens on the first pull maybe. Now if someone leaves after the first death the key owner get rekt and has to do another homework key. I don't think it's fun to do homework keys and then not worth my time if I don't think it's fun. There's no punishment for the early leavers in keys now and almost not worth it to do high keys without a full premade to make sure no one leaves after the first death. I'm talking 28+ key level this season.
I can see both perspectives. The timer-less m+ idea is similar. It would remove some negative interactions for sure, but there is also an element of risk these mechanics bring that adds to the excitement.
just make the now upto +10s not deplete and anything above that is for the sweat lords to sweat it out. also, if a key fails, make everyone's key deplete and make it possible to see each person who applies' key level. people need to go into it with equal stakes and key levels actually worth loosing to give a fuck.
It'd be very interesting to have an episode dedicated to the role of add-ons in other MMOs - specifically with a number of guests who have recent & accurate experience with the impact of add-ons in those other MMOs.
I, personally, like the amount of active skills in wow. I think if u level a character u get used to them while leveling. The main issue starts when u try a new spec or a class get reworked and suddenly u need to learn a full list of skills. I would like them to add some kind of easy training quest on max level which walks u through the skills and special class interactions for a reward of basic starter gear for max level.
For me personally: I *despise* any form of PVP, especially BRs, but I'm truly happy people are enjoying the mode, and anytime there is a win for Blizz I consider it a win for me. However, waiting for months blindly being hyped about doing some Jack Sparrow stuff for it to end up being a mode I know without playing I will hate every minute of is kind of a bummer.
Really felt dratnos talking about customizing your own rotational ui. I am not an amazing player. I have also worked my way up to raiding at a CE level over many years. Creating the visual and audial clarity to play a given spec through research, practice, and experimentation has been one of the most engaging parts of playing higher end pve content. A lot of it is also just sharing ideas with other players and finding new ways to optimize. I feel like that realm of customization and personal expression should be preserved.
Exactly. Creating a clear visual ui, and researching the specs I play, are some of the ways I do skill expression. And it's very satisfying to improve my own gameplay in that way. I'm not better at reacting, I'm not better at rotation, etc, etc. But this is a big part of how I become good at the game.
Dorki is right. The same group of people lost their minds with pet battles in MoP. “This care bear Pokémon bullshit is taking the place of more dungeons and raids”. The Care Bears subs help keep the lights on, so I’ll take more Plunderstorm over another Korthia any day.
is he tho? it's the second expension in a row we're missing a raid tier. And now we are also recycling old dungeon for M+. And we don't have seasonal affixes anymore. And the new talent tree is really just making previous baseline abilities / stuff we got from previous expension into a tree format.. So did those pet battle / plunderstorm and watheverelse really help raiders / M+ peep get more content? BTW, Korthia is sure as heck not made for the raider/ M+ population.
The care bears don't like Plunderstorm. All I see in my casual guild discords is people who hate that there's a PvP aspect, or who view it as a grind to get rewards that they won't do again. The people who like Plunderstorm are the content creators. Their girlfriends got some new underwear and it got them excited for the next week or two before they realise that it's still just the same girlfriend.
@@vincenthamel3420He Is. We're getting a new set of dungeons for every season which is great and it kinda makes seasonal affixes obsolete. Even if it's just recycling old dungeons it's still better than what we had. Missing raid tiers are bummer but on the other side WoW was always a seasonal game and having one low stakes season when they can cook something new and you don't have to play is acceptable. Plus War Within is set to release around September so it's kinda half season
@@brosirsAs someone who likes Plunderstorm and isn't a content creator... If you are in a social circle that hates a topic, typically the people that enjoy it know better than to bring it up, because at best it just annoys those that dislike it. Now this isn't saying that there are 'secret enjoyers of Plunderstorm' in your circle, they might be meh on it. You don't have to "Legitimize" your dislike of a system by saying "Only content creators enjoy it" you can just be like "I don't like playing Plunderstorm, it doesn't appeal to me"
@@fleshhunter8703 It's entirely illogical for me to assume that there's a secret group of people who like Plunderstorm but are keeping quiet about it. It's entirely logical for me to base what I'm saying on actual observation of the two casual social guilds I'm in.
I think people forget how inspired and talented the people who do the real work at Blizzard actually are. So the people who think they're idiots (The "Hire me Blizzard, I can do it better" people) are so lost. The people who think they don't play their own game are morons. You can't design a game without playing it. It's actually impossible.
Loved the longer discussion! Dorki tried so hard to get Max on the right track in the add on discussion. The real elephant in the room is in-combat add ons, nobody is out here crying about UI and cosmetic mods ruining the game. I would love to hear Max actually dig into that topic a bit and not just handwave it away "everyone knows combat add ons are bad". If add on regulation was working why are private auras a total mess?
10.2.6 was disappointing to me because it’s a new game mode, not something I can do on my main. I hope they don’t advertise other game modes in the retail roadmap again, immediately soured my impression of plunderstorm because of the false advertising.
No 40 man ever again, ever. 40 man raids were the worst experience I ever had in 20 years of this game. 40 toilet breaks, food breaks, kids yelling, afking randomly, dc issues, then 3 guys are from another timezone so they have to leave early and you have to find someone else, but nobody wants to join because of the lockout. My blood boils at the thought. Asmon can have cool takes, but his idea of what retail should be is horrid in my mind. No addons? So I should have my character pane in the top left corner and never be able to tell how much hp or mana I have? Or rearange stupid bars? Just let me customize my ui to suit how I want to play.
On Plunderstorm vs Mage Tower/Challenge modes for casuals, I think it's an important distinction that the former is a grind that anyone can do while the latter two are tests of skill. Because anyone *can* get the plunderstorm mounts, completionists feel like they have to do it while the mode is still around or they'll regret missing out. Whereas with tests of skill, there's more a feeling of 'welp, this isn't for me, but it's cool'. That's also not to mention a lot of people finding working to overcome a challenge more satisfying than just grinding away.
I just wanted to add 2 points in regards to m+: 1. Key not deplete but change on failure. 2. M+ puging and premade team run are complete different beasts
I think the only real mistake Blizzard made was putting it on the road map. If this had just been secretly dropped, people would've been thrilled. My wife and I were super excited to see pirate content coming to WoW but were a bit disappointed when the only connection it had to retail was the client. As a standalone, Plunderstorm is amazing. How expectations were managed was the blunderstorm.
I really don't think we're getting more content, it's just spread out over more patches. Like dratnos said I wouldve loved to see another raid tier instead, but it seems blizzard already knew at least a year ago they were gonna phone in another fated patch cus 'the last one was so well received' lmfao, all in favor of working on the new xpac ofc that'll keep em quiet
My issue with Plunderstorm is I dropped in for my first few games and got absolutely pub stopped. I wish since my renown was 1 I would’ve been up against people with similar experience.
Y’all should name the poddy “MurTalk” and have the logo being a microphone shaped as a murloc and dratnos can do the noise at the beginning of every pod
tbh i think the ability prune thing is a good idea, but i also think its weird that asmon would make that point when he was also the first person to be in favour of the unpruning that happened in shadowlands.
I think they are designing themselves into a corner with the defensive options, playing a shaman is a totally different experience to playing a mage in terms of feeling safe and staying alive through mechanics, I don't see them culling abilities to the extent that is needed, I mean they just introduced evoker and it has like 4 different defensive buttons, so instead they will have to power creep Shaman and other classes like priest to compete.
Dorki’s dota 2 reference to Invoker is great I always thought mage should have a spec that works similarly to that hero. Like chromatic mage pulling strong spells from frost fire and arcane as you build up “spell runes” or “mana orbs”
They were making DF in the middle of SL to assume this wasn't the plan all along and that this expac we would be getting 4 raids is just something people made in their own minds and decided it had to be true
Plunderstorm is fun, I've been enjoying it, finished the renown days ago, but I definitely think it's somewhat shallow. I already see matches starting with ~25 teams.
1:05:40 There is actually a huge movement going around in SoD right now pushing blizz to reduce ALL the 40man raids to either 20 or 10 man, especially since the Level up raids have been 10man.
@@ahiwalter9153And classic andys crack me up. This is an experimental seasonal mode and they should make all the changes that make sense, original vanilla is still there for people who want to do the same thing all the time.
What people don’t want is lengthy 40 men raids. There is classic for that. Has anybody asked why M+ is so popular? 30 min dungeon, 5 players, gg. Make Raids be more like TBC Karazhan and you’ll see a lot of people doing them.
Karazhan was great in 2007. but in 2024? bunch of tank n spank bosses? a huge waste of time in the form of chessboard? tons of obnoxious trash everywhere? Boring keying? no.
As a big fan of the mode I think it's really disingenuous to say "eh the rewards have no power so don't play it if you don't like it" tmog and mounts are a big thing to a lot of wow players, you also miss out on like 750 traders tender if you don't play it, just because it has no player power doesn't mean you don't have to do it
@@Elgato1221 not really though. The key difference between that and using that argument for PVP or raiding is Plunderstorm is a completely different game, it's not wow at all in the slightest, but it gives rewards for wow. Imagine if you had to go play league of legends for 15 hours to get rewards for wow.
@@wowxleahyrain that’s a false equivalence, and I’ll explain. When a pve player needs to do pvp for gear to progress pve, that makes no sense. Or when someone needs to do torgas (might have misspelled that one) to upgrade there power to raid. The key here is if you need to engage in an activity in order to progress in another activity; then that becomes bad game design. Rewards are not always the same as the tools one uses to progress there gameplay.
“Makes fun of people thinking they are getting paid to (like) plundersrorm”. “Continues to TELL EVERYONE how much they are getting paid to play plundersrorm”. Lol
I think one of the most insanely hype things they could do is go all out with class/spec customizations. Things like blood red effects for paladins, maybe avenging wrath changes appearance per race, and maybe you go and collect glyphs from quests or whatever that unlock these effects. Like green fire but more. If they do this, it would generate so much hype it’s unreal.
They do have glyphs that change Avenging Wrath, changing it to blood Red effects would go against lore. Now more things like the green fire quest would be cool. have to be careful with it, too much change too quickly would mess over pvper's that rely on seeing abilities and what not to identify people. And/or would force Blizz to add another check box into options where you can turn that stuff off for yourself.
@@talisredstar1543 how would blood red effects go against lore? It would fit blood elves very well. And yes we have 1 glyph, talking about much more than that. And I’m not sure why they’d have to be careful with it, pvpers do not use visual cues often at all anymore because there’s far too much going on, SL+ has been addon dominated in pvp for this reason and I doubt we are getting away from that. I know this was blizzards reasoning but it doesn’t actually make sense post bfa. And yes they could certainly make a toggle option for these effects ie glyphs
@@JDP2393 Because the Blood Elves no longer get their access to the Light through draining a Naaru. When the sunwell was reignited by the Light. They were freed from that vampirism, and the light now comes to the naturally.
We've seen the problems of 10-man. If people think class representation is bad now they have no idea what that would lead to. The smallest I think they can realistically design a fixed raid for is 15, which still has tons of problems.
yea I feel like if 10 man mythic was feasible, it would be in the game. I don’t think blizz is oblivious to the fact that getting 20 people together is a challenge & I totally agree, I remember the days of 10 man heroic & it was VERY restrictive on certain tiers, boss fights & just in general with the limited number of slots for buffs
what you dont seem to realize is that "tank and spank" classic bosses are much more acceptable when the entire world* is relevant for gearing your character. shrinking everything to just being raids is poor for the overall health of the game. it just makes it a multiplayer action game. but w/e
Also, the magic fairy land of no PTR may sound good to you guys for raids, but how many thousands of times have we made major change to classes, systems, and encounters that would have been absolute disasters if they went live? We already have enough things slip through the cracks, it's just not reasonable to not test a game this big.
@ 33:30 the interesting part about button bloat is that back in classic, leveling was the how-to guide without really any extra effort needed from blizzard. Classic had a ton of abilities at 60 (shaman with 12+ totems anyone?). You slowly gained more abilities, and because you took so long to level, you naturally learned the game at a reasonable progression rate. Nowadays, you can absolutely take a first time player, slap them on a new account, and they will slowly get more buttons, but with how fast leveling is (and the fact that leveling feels rushed toward the end game), you don’t have that new-player friendly experience anymore.
I literally leveled a new character as the spec I wanted to learn and purposely took a while doing it because it was pretty overwhelming to just plop in front of the dummies with the 20 new buttons
As someone who does not give a shit about raids, it's great to see them do more stuff than just fucking raids. I know for a lot of people this is what they play WoW for, the fucking raids. But someone like me, who doesnt want to take two to three nights out of his weekly schedule dedicated to WoW, this focus on raids has driven me away from WoW rather than entice me to play. I don't play plunderstorm, it's just not the type of game mode I enjoy. But I am always happy when Blizzard just stops focusing solely on raids and over-complicated systems. Evolve! Yes, raids were the shit in 2004, but now we have more good shit in the game and Blizzard should properly reward people for sticking around rather than foremost for raiding.
Im in a AOTC guild that only gets the first few mythic bosses, so we're fairly casual. As a data point, augmentation evoker caused us a lot of problems. People who hated aug complained endlessly which bothered the people who switched over or were recruited to play aug.
There can't be only one Support spec in the game for this to work. Either they turn some healers into Supports or they just don't run Supports. But there can't be a single spec or ability adding so much value that other classes are tuned around potentially having it.
I don’t think healer support is the move especially when they have like 4 or 5 dps specs that have been dead for years as far as being desirable in groups that need something
@@ahiwalter9153 Healer is the role with the most overlap of the Support concept, so it's the one that I think needs to change to accomodate the role. Personally, I think Support shouldn't exist in WoW and we could do with a culling of current specs. Like DK should only have Tank or DPS, with aspects of Blood/Frost/Unholy spread across the two. Can do that kind of thing with basically every class, the problem is getting the playerbase to accept it.
I agree they’ve created too many specs in the game, but I think the optics of changing some healers to a aug style of play would be a lot worse than say changing survival to a support style dps spec that actually gets invited to groups, or feral druids, elemental shamans etc.
@@ahiwalter9153 If anything Survival should be a Tank, it has a ton of tools to make it super effective and unique at the role, being a Tank with a pet that can solo taunt swap while also having access to Lust. But that's my personal hill to die on. Realistically, some specs would have to change but I think there would be *significantly* more backlash from DPS players having specs taken away from their role than from Healers being told "Your role is even more vital to a party now." Healing is the first thing you look to cut in any content, and Healers are already Support classes to the extent that they manage dispells, debuffs, and important mitigation/healing CDs. Healers that don't add to group damage whenever feasible are actively trolling. It's literally half a step for Healers to become fully realized Supports.
To talk about addons i played LOL Before WOW and LOL With addons/weakaura that would helps you see some buffs more clearly and when its running out would be so cool ( lulu e/w , tryndamere ult ...) and i think that would make the game better and help people improve
LoL would benefit so much from say Plater like addon. And being able to move your keybinds would be amazing too. I would shrink them down and move them under the middle of my screen like luxthos weakaura packs. but also with LoL you can't go nuts with addons at the same time, because you need to be able to see the majority of your screen way more than you do in wow, because you can zoom out so far in wow, LoL you can't sadly.
How would no depleting of keys work in pugs? Everyone is talking about running a pull over an over again but I really dont think pugs would work that way.
I won my first solo Plunderstorm game today and as primarily a Raider/m+ player the rush of getting that win fking hits so hard. legit like getting mythic boss kills after 100 pulls!
Plunderstorm is definitely the last thing I wanted. If I had to pick from a list of what I want in 10.2.6, a battle Royale would be at the very bottom. To my surprise, I love the game mode and have been having a ton of fun with it despite absolutely hating all BRs. Guess the genre just needed the wow touch. Props to blizzard for this one. The mogs and mounts are sick too. Hope we get some more shit like this in the future
Some of the button bloat can be resolved by giving abilities two effects like living flame. Why can’t soothing mist not behave like crackling Jace lightning depending on what you’re targeting.
I think part of the problem too is the amount of things that need tracking. In ffxiv most classes you're managing a few resources and the UI does a good job of tracking them for you with unique elements and it feels good. But even if WoW updated the UI to better track stuff beyond just the regular buff/debuff bars we have now, there's just SO much to track that without WAs it's impossible to be truly efficient and know exactly what's going on at any given moment. I main Hpriest, and in any given fight I have like 6 or 8 talents and my tier set all with stacking mechanics, auras I need to track, procs that don't inherently show up on the action bars and are only displayed as a buff that gets lost in the sea of constantly changing 30 buffs you have at any time. There's just so much going on at any given second that if we truly want to move away from WAs/addons in general (which I do, im in the camp of disable every single addon in the game) they need to completely reimagine basically every classes talent tree/skill system and how they interact. Which also sucks because like, setting up your talents and making the build is part of the fun of the game and I love the current talent trees. And that's before we even talk about how they specifically design fights around the use of WAs and DBM/big wigs The devs are certainly in a tight spot, that's for sure.
What about if you deplete a key you get a choice between the current deplete or you get the same key with a cooldown on it. Maybe 2 hours or something like that.
If you take away weak auras, that'd be taking away the "21st man" for most CE guilds because they use weak auras LIKE a Max or Scripe. The gap would be HUGE between RWF and HoF tier raiders.
I hate plunderstorm, and I grinded to 40, and I still think it's crap; because of two things - 1; Time limited / FOMO, and 2; Tied to World of Warcraft with rewards. If it was 100% seperate, it would be fine as its own thing. The two above points make it trash.
I'm not sure how many people this would apply for, but I definitely played the first season of dragonflight a lot longer than I usually would in previous expansion seasons, since even when I was done with raid/fishing for gear with M+, the profession system and filling out all the talent trees kept me engaged. In addition, even if I'm not feeling like playing the game that much, I'll still want to sub around the last/first week of a couple months in order to keep the trading post progress chugging along.
The wow player base is split over 5 different versions of the game all Blizzard cares about is the subs and store. It doesn't matter to Blizzard if 7.8n people play one mmo or if it's 7.8m people spread across 5 mmos.
Idk the sub numbers are still a bit concerning if u look at when classic releases the sub count doubles and after Df releases the downward trend is there about the same amount as any other expac it just rebounded mid expac. U could attribute that to df but I think it’s much more likely due to sod and hardcore. Even if u only count classic, sod, hardcore and their variants as 1/3 that means the retail sub count is approximately 5m which is kinda standard at this point and if it’s half the subs which I find much more likely then the retail subs are less then 4m which would be close to an all time low.
If you're thinking about the sub count and DF vs classic impacts on the sub retention, go look up the graphs of people still doing M+ this late into season 3. There's a lot of people playing DF. But at the same time, this tribalism bullshit is stupid. The reality is that there might be
@Max, you said that every melee spec will end up being Havoc. But, Havoc is the most played melee spec since its entry into the roster (tuning permitting). Do you think that is correlated or it is just flavor?
Flavor mostly. You have to look at the data too every spec they have reworked has been either in the meta or at least above average for the exception of like 1 or 2 specs. Havoc unfortunately is very easy to play and do damage on when you don’t know what you’re doing. But when you look at players who do know what they are doing there is a large gap.
People wouldn’t restart a key over and over, a lot of people don’t have time to for that unless the key is dead and then you can retry instead of logging out.
could there be a system in place that lets you chose a spezific dungeon for m+ for a set amount of gold? like for example you spend like 100k an the next dungeon your key will be is the dungeon you want .. or you can spent money to ensure your key safes the dungeon after completing it but it gets a higher lvl ... so you would have yet another option to get rid of gold within wow sry 4 bad english
ngl im guilty for being the boat of just doing my plunder quest and dying, but I so often get caught up in the mode that I will frequently play a full game and win solos just because it's so fun. I don't like BRs but plunderstorm is fun. I'm not good at pvp but I can treat players kinda like M+ adds. I like the collecting and the pve / pvp melding. great work from whatever production team made this mode.
There weremore buttons in classic, because all classes could learn all spells from all specs. But those buttons were irrelevant most of the time. So it looks like you have more buttons, but it retail you actually use most of your buttons. I think we've all seen the mage meme video where the classic mage was standing in place spamming frostbolt (top of the details btw) and then it cut to Firedup on mythic Jailer :D
There was also the "keep multiple levels of the same spell in your bar", though, especially for healers. I’m not sure how relevant it was in Classic but it definitely was a thing in Vanilla.
As a pvp player I really don't get the pruning talk. When they pruned the classes in legion, so many specs lost iconic and usefull abilitys. A lot of people (me included) didn't like it at all. Atleast I remember it that way. Nobody was really happy getting their skills pruned.
Super late, but the reason people buy runs through various modes is for the exact type of cosmetic rewards that Plunderstorm has, but without the ability to just buy your way in. Every collector has their own cutoff point, and something anyone can do without spending money is pretty much always going to cause this sort of problem. I personally would have preferred the mounts and such be lower on the track and leave the top end for the mode specific stuff. Yeah, less people would play as long, but they also wouldn't be bitching as hard.
I feel like the prob is not the class design but is how the class design adapts to current content!(example: this season you need many prio dmg targets or you need to have aoe stops etc) So imo they should make the content (even + 31s )for every class! They have to bring back every raid buff so every class and spec can attend raids
I think a good midground on the depletion thing is just have and untimed key not go down a key level. I've been at a point where I had a 21 key and had a string of bad pugs and now i have a 15, and it feels so bad when you load into a key, tank dies on first pull, says garbage healer and then leaves because he doesn't think we can time it anymore. At least if the key level didn't go down on untimed keys you could advertise that it's a slower key not worrying about the timer, but if you want to push then time it. even if it only worked on keys lower than 20, or something.
In short, yes. I had ce all this expansion and played classic. The retail game at its highest level requires too much time for too little reward, the game is getting progressively more difficult over time, the company refuses to change the "pillars of the game". All this means you burn out players, or you push them away. Blizzard needs to focus on what is genuinely fun and respect the players.
Dorki and Growl will plunder Max so hard that he'll go back to Wildstar
fronk is the editing goat fr 🐐
he's a rat
Wish instead of "Battle Royale" it was Rogue Like, Dungeon Crawler (through BRD?, or some old Raid), where with team of 2-4 people earn XP, random powers and build your team to finish dungeon and beat the boss.
I agree with Dratnos' take on the current state of retail - I love m+, I enjoy 20 man raids, I like being able to use addons to personalise my UI exactly as I want it, I like the complexity of the game. It's great atm. Discussions about simplifying wow are a bit odd to me - it's complexity is one of the best things about it. If you like simple games, just play wow simply, it is already possible to play the game only using 10 spells. It is already possible to go up against world bosses with 40+ players. No need to remove the complexity.
Roadmap definitely helped for me as a casual raider. gave clear outlines on content and expected time of release
I feel like I called Dratnos was doing pirate transmog irl with the tooth to build up hype for Plunderstrom. He's a blizzard plant.
Oh no. A content creator doing something fun for his stream. How dare they.
@@CasuallyEfficientwhat the fuck are you talking about
I'd be super down for a Dorki-cast episode next week where he just brings on a desk of his favorite co-creators and rambles for an hour! :D
@59:30 the only reason someone would WANT 40 man raids is because they want to show up, individually have very little impact or personal responsibility towards the fight, and not feel any stress while completing the encounter quickly and easily.
What about the people wanting 10 man?
And that is bad? Having a place to chill with a few buddies while joining some huge raid, mess around easy bosses kill something, get some loot and have fun and good time. FUN IN WOW PROHIBITED, ONLY SWEAT!
@brkus2665 it feels bad when someone is putting little to no effort into the raid, and you have to carry only to lose loot to them
@@brkus2665 I would rather... having 9 friends that play WoW (or a sane number of 4) and go into a situation with 0 expectation, than deal with say... 30 other people+my friends.
@@fleshhunter8703 that is the point of it all. Preference and as long as you acknowledge that you are fine. And not go into it this is correct this is wrong. It's just preference.
Dratnos rocking his guild merch
A couple things. I wouldn’t mind seeing instead of the mega dungeon type of deal like DOTI make it a small 10man raid for mid tier content and see how it goes. And for M+ I don’t mind the depletion. It’s rewarding when you do time the higher keys and can learn when you do brick it or deplete them
probably 90% or higher of people running m+ wouldn't just restart over and over without depletes. the only thing that would change for the vast majority of people is that they wouldn't get punished as hard when there's a single wipe and someone bails and bricks the key
100% this, I also don't enjoy spending 90% of my time on homework keys to hope it rolls in a high doable key. It's the same reason why I don't enjoy farming raids.
disagree would create more elitism for higher m+ pushers. if someone doesn't know the defense rotation to stay alive you will get booted and go again
@@Addictingdrugsbad yeah, what is wrong about that? If it happens on the first pull maybe. Now if someone leaves after the first death the key owner get rekt and has to do another homework key. I don't think it's fun to do homework keys and then not worth my time if I don't think it's fun. There's no punishment for the early leavers in keys now and almost not worth it to do high keys without a full premade to make sure no one leaves after the first death. I'm talking 28+ key level this season.
I can see both perspectives. The timer-less m+ idea is similar. It would remove some negative interactions for sure, but there is also an element of risk these mechanics bring that adds to the excitement.
just make the now upto +10s not deplete and anything above that is for the sweat lords to sweat it out. also, if a key fails, make everyone's key deplete and make it possible to see each person who applies' key level. people need to go into it with equal stakes and key levels actually worth loosing to give a fuck.
It'd be very interesting to have an episode dedicated to the role of add-ons in other MMOs - specifically with a number of guests who have recent & accurate experience with the impact of add-ons in those other MMOs.
I, personally, like the amount of active skills in wow. I think if u level a character u get used to them while leveling.
The main issue starts when u try a new spec or a class get reworked and suddenly u need to learn a full list of skills.
I would like them to add some kind of easy training quest on max level which walks u through the skills and special class interactions for a reward of basic starter gear for max level.
For me personally:
I *despise* any form of PVP, especially BRs, but I'm truly happy people are enjoying the mode, and anytime there is a win for Blizz I consider it a win for me.
However, waiting for months blindly being hyped about doing some Jack Sparrow stuff for it to end up being a mode I know without playing I will hate every minute of is kind of a bummer.
Sounds like you shouldn't go hyping yourself up blindly
@@PhoTC except that's exactly what they were trying to do? Build hype by keeping it close to the chest and teasing without revealing?
Really felt dratnos talking about customizing your own rotational ui. I am not an amazing player. I have also worked my way up to raiding at a CE level over many years. Creating the visual and audial clarity to play a given spec through research, practice, and experimentation has been one of the most engaging parts of playing higher end pve content. A lot of it is also just sharing ideas with other players and finding new ways to optimize. I feel like that realm of customization and personal expression should be preserved.
Hell yeah brother
Exactly. Creating a clear visual ui, and researching the specs I play, are some of the ways I do skill expression. And it's very satisfying to improve my own gameplay in that way. I'm not better at reacting, I'm not better at rotation, etc, etc. But this is a big part of how I become good at the game.
No artifact power grind in DF has been amazing
In SL as well.
Can confirm. I visibly shuddered when dratnos mentioned additional reknown tracks being added to plunder
Dorki is right. The same group of people lost their minds with pet battles in MoP. “This care bear Pokémon bullshit is taking the place of more dungeons and raids”. The Care Bears subs help keep the lights on, so I’ll take more Plunderstorm over another Korthia any day.
is he tho?
it's the second expension in a row we're missing a raid tier. And now we are also recycling old dungeon for M+. And we don't have seasonal affixes anymore. And the new talent tree is really just making previous baseline abilities / stuff we got from previous expension into a tree format..
So did those pet battle / plunderstorm and watheverelse really help raiders / M+ peep get more content?
BTW, Korthia is sure as heck not made for the raider/ M+ population.
The care bears don't like Plunderstorm. All I see in my casual guild discords is people who hate that there's a PvP aspect, or who view it as a grind to get rewards that they won't do again. The people who like Plunderstorm are the content creators. Their girlfriends got some new underwear and it got them excited for the next week or two before they realise that it's still just the same girlfriend.
@@vincenthamel3420He Is. We're getting a new set of dungeons for every season which is great and it kinda makes seasonal affixes obsolete. Even if it's just recycling old dungeons it's still better than what we had. Missing raid tiers are bummer but on the other side WoW was always a seasonal game and having one low stakes season when they can cook something new and you don't have to play is acceptable. Plus War Within is set to release around September so it's kinda half season
@@brosirsAs someone who likes Plunderstorm and isn't a content creator... If you are in a social circle that hates a topic, typically the people that enjoy it know better than to bring it up, because at best it just annoys those that dislike it. Now this isn't saying that there are 'secret enjoyers of Plunderstorm' in your circle, they might be meh on it.
You don't have to "Legitimize" your dislike of a system by saying "Only content creators enjoy it" you can just be like "I don't like playing Plunderstorm, it doesn't appeal to me"
@@fleshhunter8703 It's entirely illogical for me to assume that there's a secret group of people who like Plunderstorm but are keeping quiet about it. It's entirely logical for me to base what I'm saying on actual observation of the two casual social guilds I'm in.
I think people forget how inspired and talented the people who do the real work at Blizzard actually are. So the people who think they're idiots (The "Hire me Blizzard, I can do it better" people) are so lost. The people who think they don't play their own game are morons. You can't design a game without playing it. It's actually impossible.
banger intro
Agreed. Give Fronk a raise
Can that just be a permanent intro? Thanks.
Yuge shoutout to Max for improving his ability to take a step back and let the boys talk.
Loved the longer discussion! Dorki tried so hard to get Max on the right track in the add on discussion. The real elephant in the room is in-combat add ons, nobody is out here crying about UI and cosmetic mods ruining the game. I would love to hear Max actually dig into that topic a bit and not just handwave it away "everyone knows combat add ons are bad".
If add on regulation was working why are private auras a total mess?
10.2.6 was disappointing to me because it’s a new game mode, not something I can do on my main. I hope they don’t advertise other game modes in the retail roadmap again, immediately soured my impression of plunderstorm because of the false advertising.
No 40 man ever again, ever. 40 man raids were the worst experience I ever had in 20 years of this game. 40 toilet breaks, food breaks, kids yelling, afking randomly, dc issues, then 3 guys are from another timezone so they have to leave early and you have to find someone else, but nobody wants to join because of the lockout. My blood boils at the thought. Asmon can have cool takes, but his idea of what retail should be is horrid in my mind.
No addons? So I should have my character pane in the top left corner and never be able to tell how much hp or mana I have? Or rearange stupid bars? Just let me customize my ui to suit how I want to play.
On Plunderstorm vs Mage Tower/Challenge modes for casuals, I think it's an important distinction that the former is a grind that anyone can do while the latter two are tests of skill. Because anyone *can* get the plunderstorm mounts, completionists feel like they have to do it while the mode is still around or they'll regret missing out. Whereas with tests of skill, there's more a feeling of 'welp, this isn't for me, but it's cool'. That's also not to mention a lot of people finding working to overcome a challenge more satisfying than just grinding away.
One of the few podcasts on games in general, that I can follow. Good job guys big kudos
I just wanted to add 2 points in regards to m+: 1. Key not deplete but change on failure. 2. M+ puging and premade team run are complete different beasts
I think the only real mistake Blizzard made was putting it on the road map. If this had just been secretly dropped, people would've been thrilled. My wife and I were super excited to see pirate content coming to WoW but were a bit disappointed when the only connection it had to retail was the client. As a standalone, Plunderstorm is amazing. How expectations were managed was the blunderstorm.
I really don't think we're getting more content, it's just spread out over more patches. Like dratnos said I wouldve loved to see another raid tier instead, but it seems blizzard already knew at least a year ago they were gonna phone in another fated patch cus 'the last one was so well received' lmfao, all in favor of working on the new xpac ofc that'll keep em quiet
My issue with Plunderstorm is I dropped in for my first few games and got absolutely pub stopped. I wish since my renown was 1 I would’ve been up against people with similar experience.
HEY! I was born in '82 but I am loving Plunderstorm! Not all of us "older" gamers like mount farming (also, fuck you).
‘87 here and I totally agree with you
Damn, no episode next week? Sad, was hoping to watch during my bday! Either way, great content. Keep it up.
Y’all should name the poddy “MurTalk” and have the logo being a microphone shaped as a murloc and dratnos can do the noise at the beginning of every pod
A portion of the drop off for 9.1 was because of the issues in Blizzard that came out around the same time
Fronk, you did an absolutely amazing job with that intro.
LMAO this intro is fire, and dratty with the fresh cut, fresh smile, hamburger meat comin out of the shirt woo buddy
tbh i think the ability prune thing is a good idea, but i also think its weird that asmon would make that point when he was also the first person to be in favour of the unpruning that happened in shadowlands.
I think they are designing themselves into a corner with the defensive options, playing a shaman is a totally different experience to playing a mage in terms of feeling safe and staying alive through mechanics, I don't see them culling abilities to the extent that is needed, I mean they just introduced evoker and it has like 4 different defensive buttons, so instead they will have to power creep Shaman and other classes like priest to compete.
i saw the thumbnail and feared that cat wasnt here for the episode
e
Dorki’s dota 2 reference to Invoker is great I always thought mage should have a spec that works similarly to that hero. Like chromatic mage pulling strong spells from frost fire and arcane as you build up “spell runes” or “mana orbs”
the only problem is much like invoker, the best players will completely rip on it & everyone else will really not do anything haha xD
They were making DF in the middle of SL to assume this wasn't the plan all along and that this expac we would be getting 4 raids is just something people made in their own minds and decided it had to be true
Plunderstorm is fun, I've been enjoying it, finished the renown days ago, but I definitely think it's somewhat shallow. I already see matches starting with ~25 teams.
1:05:40 There is actually a huge movement going around in SoD right now pushing blizz to reduce ALL the 40man raids to either 20 or 10 man, especially since the Level up raids have been 10man.
SOD players crack me up man, like just play retail at this point 😂
@@ahiwalter9153And classic andys crack me up. This is an experimental seasonal mode and they should make all the changes that make sense, original vanilla is still there for people who want to do the same thing all the time.
What people don’t want is lengthy 40 men raids. There is classic for that. Has anybody asked why M+ is so popular? 30 min dungeon, 5 players, gg.
Make Raids be more like TBC Karazhan and you’ll see a lot of people doing them.
Karazhan was great in 2007.
but in 2024? bunch of tank n spank bosses? a huge waste of time in the form of chessboard? tons of obnoxious trash everywhere? Boring keying?
no.
Lengthy? You mean like an hour for the entire raid?
@@user-nz4un6se7y wow, 1 hour… 🤨 how much did you pay? I’m interested.
@@vincenthamel3420 I am 90% sure they mean "Raid with 10 people" more than Karazhan's mechanics.
@@fleshhunter8703 so say 10-man raid, like we ( by the way) already have with flex-mode in normal and heroic.
My thing about plunderstorm is its pvp and i don't enjoy pvp but feel like i have to play it to get those cool rewards in wow
Hold tough there big guy while I go get my tiny violin 🎻
wow, time moves fast!! Another PoddyC episode
As a big fan of the mode I think it's really disingenuous to say "eh the rewards have no power so don't play it if you don't like it" tmog and mounts are a big thing to a lot of wow players, you also miss out on like 750 traders tender if you don't play it, just because it has no player power doesn't mean you don't have to do it
“I don’t like this new mode and I don’t want to do it to get the thing from it”, weak argument man
@@Elgato1221 not really though. The key difference between that and using that argument for PVP or raiding is
Plunderstorm is a completely different game, it's not wow at all in the slightest, but it gives rewards for wow.
Imagine if you had to go play league of legends for 15 hours to get rewards for wow.
@@wowxleahyrain that’s a false equivalence, and I’ll explain. When a pve player needs to do pvp for gear to progress pve, that makes no sense. Or when someone needs to do torgas (might have misspelled that one) to upgrade there power to raid. The key here is if you need to engage in an activity in order to progress in another activity; then that becomes bad game design. Rewards are not always the same as the tools one uses to progress there gameplay.
“Makes fun of people thinking they are getting paid to (like) plundersrorm”. “Continues to TELL EVERYONE how much they are getting paid to play plundersrorm”. Lol
I think one of the most insanely hype things they could do is go all out with class/spec customizations. Things like blood red effects for paladins, maybe avenging wrath changes appearance per race, and maybe you go and collect glyphs from quests or whatever that unlock these effects. Like green fire but more. If they do this, it would generate so much hype it’s unreal.
They do have glyphs that change Avenging Wrath, changing it to blood Red effects would go against lore.
Now more things like the green fire quest would be cool.
have to be careful with it, too much change too quickly would mess over pvper's that rely on seeing abilities and what not to identify people. And/or would force Blizz to add another check box into options where you can turn that stuff off for yourself.
@@talisredstar1543 how would blood red effects go against lore? It would fit blood elves very well. And yes we have 1 glyph, talking about much more than that.
And I’m not sure why they’d have to be careful with it, pvpers do not use visual cues often at all anymore because there’s far too much going on, SL+ has been addon dominated in pvp for this reason and I doubt we are getting away from that. I know this was blizzards reasoning but it doesn’t actually make sense post bfa. And yes they could certainly make a toggle option for these effects ie glyphs
@@JDP2393 Because the Blood Elves no longer get their access to the Light through draining a Naaru. When the sunwell was reignited by the Light. They were freed from that vampirism, and the light now comes to the naturally.
if they added 10 man Mythic i would be the happiest i would ever be.
I'd like them to try 14, personally.
We've seen the problems of 10-man. If people think class representation is bad now they have no idea what that would lead to. The smallest I think they can realistically design a fixed raid for is 15, which still has tons of problems.
yea I feel like if 10 man mythic was feasible, it would be in the game. I don’t think blizz is oblivious to the fact that getting 20 people together is a challenge & I totally agree, I remember the days of 10 man heroic & it was VERY restrictive on certain tiers, boss fights & just in general with the limited number of slots for buffs
what you dont seem to realize is that "tank and spank" classic bosses are much more acceptable when the entire world* is relevant for gearing your character. shrinking everything to just being raids is poor for the overall health of the game. it just makes it a multiplayer action game. but w/e
If the optimal approach to a mechanic is to have assignments, WoW should give the assignment, not a Weakaura.
The raid leader should do the assignments, not the game.
lmao Max looks cross-eyed almost the whole time XD
XDXDX uWu rawr xD
Also, the magic fairy land of no PTR may sound good to you guys for raids, but how many thousands of times have we made major change to classes, systems, and encounters that would have been absolute disasters if they went live? We already have enough things slip through the cracks, it's just not reasonable to not test a game this big.
@ 33:30 the interesting part about button bloat is that back in classic, leveling was the how-to guide without really any extra effort needed from blizzard. Classic had a ton of abilities at 60 (shaman with 12+ totems anyone?). You slowly gained more abilities, and because you took so long to level, you naturally learned the game at a reasonable progression rate.
Nowadays, you can absolutely take a first time player, slap them on a new account, and they will slowly get more buttons, but with how fast leveling is (and the fact that leveling feels rushed toward the end game), you don’t have that new-player friendly experience anymore.
I literally leveled a new character as the spec I wanted to learn and purposely took a while doing it because it was pretty overwhelming to just plop in front of the dummies with the 20 new buttons
I wonder if the black painting is still behind the sofa where it fell off from the wall in ep 11😅
Playing for rewards is a road to hell.
The key is to play for the sake of playing.
Just like anything in life, actually.
I hope they do for other game modes what they've done with Plunderstorm. Thinking Roguelikes, Tower Defense, AutoShooters etc
I think the name of the podcast will hinder engagement and I would love to see this succeed especially with the end of the Titanforged podcast.
another absolute banger episode! long 2 weeks ahead
As someone who does not give a shit about raids, it's great to see them do more stuff than just fucking raids. I know for a lot of people this is what they play WoW for, the fucking raids. But someone like me, who doesnt want to take two to three nights out of his weekly schedule dedicated to WoW, this focus on raids has driven me away from WoW rather than entice me to play. I don't play plunderstorm, it's just not the type of game mode I enjoy. But I am always happy when Blizzard just stops focusing solely on raids and over-complicated systems. Evolve! Yes, raids were the shit in 2004, but now we have more good shit in the game and Blizzard should properly reward people for sticking around rather than foremost for raiding.
Im in a AOTC guild that only gets the first few mythic bosses, so we're fairly casual. As a data point, augmentation evoker caused us a lot of problems. People who hated aug complained endlessly which bothered the people who switched over or were recruited to play aug.
There can't be only one Support spec in the game for this to work. Either they turn some healers into Supports or they just don't run Supports. But there can't be a single spec or ability adding so much value that other classes are tuned around potentially having it.
I don’t think healer support is the move especially when they have like 4 or 5 dps specs that have been dead for years as far as being desirable in groups that need something
@@ahiwalter9153 Healer is the role with the most overlap of the Support concept, so it's the one that I think needs to change to accomodate the role. Personally, I think Support shouldn't exist in WoW and we could do with a culling of current specs. Like DK should only have Tank or DPS, with aspects of Blood/Frost/Unholy spread across the two. Can do that kind of thing with basically every class, the problem is getting the playerbase to accept it.
I agree they’ve created too many specs in the game, but I think the optics of changing some healers to a aug style of play would be a lot worse than say changing survival to a support style dps spec that actually gets invited to groups, or feral druids, elemental shamans etc.
@@ahiwalter9153 If anything Survival should be a Tank, it has a ton of tools to make it super effective and unique at the role, being a Tank with a pet that can solo taunt swap while also having access to Lust. But that's my personal hill to die on. Realistically, some specs would have to change but I think there would be *significantly* more backlash from DPS players having specs taken away from their role than from Healers being told "Your role is even more vital to a party now."
Healing is the first thing you look to cut in any content, and Healers are already Support classes to the extent that they manage dispells, debuffs, and important mitigation/healing CDs. Healers that don't add to group damage whenever feasible are actively trolling. It's literally half a step for Healers to become fully realized Supports.
To talk about addons i played LOL Before WOW and LOL With addons/weakaura that would helps you see some buffs more clearly and when its running out would be so cool ( lulu e/w , tryndamere ult ...) and i think that would make the game better and help people improve
LoL would benefit so much from say Plater like addon. And being able to move your keybinds would be amazing too. I would shrink them down and move them under the middle of my screen like luxthos weakaura packs.
but also with LoL you can't go nuts with addons at the same time, because you need to be able to see the majority of your screen way more than you do in wow, because you can zoom out so far in wow, LoL you can't sadly.
Dratnos killed me day 1 in plunderstorm! I only noticed the name as I was running and he was closing on me.
How would no depleting of keys work in pugs?
Everyone is talking about running a pull over an over again but I really dont think pugs would work that way.
Keystone charges would probably be ideal for pugs and competitive players
I won my first solo Plunderstorm game today and as primarily a Raider/m+ player the rush of getting that win fking hits so hard. legit like getting mythic boss kills after 100 pulls!
Plunderstorm is definitely the last thing I wanted. If I had to pick from a list of what I want in 10.2.6, a battle Royale would be at the very bottom. To my surprise, I love the game mode and have been having a ton of fun with it despite absolutely hating all BRs. Guess the genre just needed the wow touch. Props to blizzard for this one. The mogs and mounts are sick too. Hope we get some more shit like this in the future
Some of the button bloat can be resolved by giving abilities two effects like living flame. Why can’t soothing mist not behave like crackling Jace lightning depending on what you’re targeting.
how high is dratnos in the intro?! his eyes went beyond red, Ultra Instinct Red
Just do more ui updates so that we don’t need WA for class combat buffs and make the new pve that you don’t need an addon to complete them
I think part of the problem too is the amount of things that need tracking. In ffxiv most classes you're managing a few resources and the UI does a good job of tracking them for you with unique elements and it feels good. But even if WoW updated the UI to better track stuff beyond just the regular buff/debuff bars we have now, there's just SO much to track that without WAs it's impossible to be truly efficient and know exactly what's going on at any given moment.
I main Hpriest, and in any given fight I have like 6 or 8 talents and my tier set all with stacking mechanics, auras I need to track, procs that don't inherently show up on the action bars and are only displayed as a buff that gets lost in the sea of constantly changing 30 buffs you have at any time. There's just so much going on at any given second that if we truly want to move away from WAs/addons in general (which I do, im in the camp of disable every single addon in the game) they need to completely reimagine basically every classes talent tree/skill system and how they interact. Which also sucks because like, setting up your talents and making the build is part of the fun of the game and I love the current talent trees. And that's before we even talk about how they specifically design fights around the use of WAs and DBM/big wigs
The devs are certainly in a tight spot, that's for sure.
Grats on the epic loot of a new tooth Dratnos.
Max you need to trim that beard to give you the gigachad jawline
What about if you deplete a key you get a choice between the current deplete or you get the same key with a cooldown on it. Maybe 2 hours or something like that.
If you take away weak auras, that'd be taking away the "21st man" for most CE guilds because they use weak auras LIKE a Max or Scripe. The gap would be HUGE between RWF and HoF tier raiders.
these guilds pay programmers make the weakauras for them & don’t release them till after the boss is killed so the gap is already monumental lol
I hate plunderstorm, and I grinded to 40, and I still think it's crap; because of two things - 1; Time limited / FOMO, and 2; Tied to World of Warcraft with rewards.
If it was 100% seperate, it would be fine as its own thing.
The two above points make it trash.
Will you guys stream the poddy c ever again? I enjoy seeing the chat respond to everything live
I'm not sure how many people this would apply for, but I definitely played the first season of dragonflight a lot longer than I usually would in previous expansion seasons, since even when I was done with raid/fishing for gear with M+, the profession system and filling out all the talent trees kept me engaged. In addition, even if I'm not feeling like playing the game that much, I'll still want to sub around the last/first week of a couple months in order to keep the trading post progress chugging along.
The wow player base is split over 5 different versions of the game all Blizzard cares about is the subs and store.
It doesn't matter to Blizzard if 7.8n people play one mmo or if it's 7.8m people spread across 5 mmos.
add plunder to the game, and just give rewards for like increased adventure track rep, or just menial things like new warband backgrounds or something
Idk the sub numbers are still a bit concerning if u look at when classic releases the sub count doubles and after Df releases the downward trend is there about the same amount as any other expac it just rebounded mid expac. U could attribute that to df but I think it’s much more likely due to sod and hardcore. Even if u only count classic, sod, hardcore and their variants as 1/3 that means the retail sub count is approximately 5m which is kinda standard at this point and if it’s half the subs which I find much more likely then the retail subs are less then 4m which would be close to an all time low.
If you're thinking about the sub count and DF vs classic impacts on the sub retention, go look up the graphs of people still doing M+ this late into season 3. There's a lot of people playing DF.
But at the same time, this tribalism bullshit is stupid. The reality is that there might be
Man i have been thinking, i think tooth thing from Dratnos was a longshot ahead of time because of plunderstorm, wow!
Can someone explain the overlay stuff with add-ons. Didn't understand that part
2:14 I was confused when Dratnos didn't say "bean" ;)
@Max, you said that every melee spec will end up being Havoc. But, Havoc is the most played melee spec since its entry into the roster (tuning permitting). Do you think that is correlated or it is just flavor?
Flavor mostly. You have to look at the data too every spec they have reworked has been either in the meta or at least above average for the exception of like 1 or 2 specs. Havoc unfortunately is very easy to play and do damage on when you don’t know what you’re doing. But when you look at players who do know what they are doing there is a large gap.
So if i want to clear m+ i should quit my job or not?
People wouldn’t restart a key over and over, a lot of people don’t have time to for that unless the key is dead and then you can retry instead of logging out.
"You look like a peacock" needs to be a t-shirt design
I could prune the buttons. Instead of roll/chi torpedo/flying dragon kick/tigers just just have a talent that you pick between the 4.
could there be a system in place that lets you chose a spezific dungeon for m+ for a set amount of gold? like for example you spend like 100k an the next dungeon your key will be is the dungeon you want .. or you can spent money to ensure your key safes the dungeon after completing it but it gets a higher lvl ... so you would have yet another option to get rid of gold within wow
sry 4 bad english
ngl im guilty for being the boat of just doing my plunder quest and dying, but I so often get caught up in the mode that I will frequently play a full game and win solos just because it's so fun. I don't like BRs but plunderstorm is fun. I'm not good at pvp but I can treat players kinda like M+ adds. I like the collecting and the pve / pvp melding. great work from whatever production team made this mode.
There weremore buttons in classic, because all classes could learn all spells from all specs. But those buttons were irrelevant most of the time. So it looks like you have more buttons, but it retail you actually use most of your buttons. I think we've all seen the mage meme video where the classic mage was standing in place spamming frostbolt (top of the details btw) and then it cut to Firedup on mythic Jailer :D
On top of that, healers used multiple ranks of the same abilities so had a ton of buttons in vanilla
Healers + mana dps
There was also the "keep multiple levels of the same spell in your bar", though, especially for healers. I’m not sure how relevant it was in Classic but it definitely was a thing in Vanilla.
Most of those extra buttons were only relevant in pvp and world content.
Warlocks had around 50 abilities at lvl 60 and used Shadowbolt and Life tap
As a pvp player I really don't get the pruning talk. When they pruned the classes in legion, so many specs lost iconic and usefull abilitys. A lot of people (me included) didn't like it at all. Atleast I remember it that way. Nobody was really happy getting their skills pruned.
Please do a solo dorki episode next week even if it was only for patrons I would sub for that lol
making things passive is a great idea
Super late, but the reason people buy runs through various modes is for the exact type of cosmetic rewards that Plunderstorm has, but without the ability to just buy your way in. Every collector has their own cutoff point, and something anyone can do without spending money is pretty much always going to cause this sort of problem. I personally would have preferred the mounts and such be lower on the track and leave the top end for the mode specific stuff. Yeah, less people would play as long, but they also wouldn't be bitching as hard.
I feel like the prob is not the class design but is how the class design adapts to current content!(example: this season you need many prio dmg targets or you need to have aoe stops etc) So imo they should make the content (even + 31s )for every class! They have to bring back every raid buff so every class and spec can attend raids
I think a good midground on the depletion thing is just have and untimed key not go down a key level. I've been at a point where I had a 21 key and had a string of bad pugs and now i have a 15, and it feels so bad when you load into a key, tank dies on first pull, says garbage healer and then leaves because he doesn't think we can time it anymore. At least if the key level didn't go down on untimed keys you could advertise that it's a slower key not worrying about the timer, but if you want to push then time it. even if it only worked on keys lower than 20, or something.
Was that a sonic mayhem song put in the beginning with jdotb?! Quake 2 vibes!!
In short, yes. I had ce all this expansion and played classic. The retail game at its highest level requires too much time for too little reward, the game is getting progressively more difficult over time, the company refuses to change the "pillars of the game". All this means you burn out players, or you push them away. Blizzard needs to focus on what is genuinely fun and respect the players.
Next week we just get Dorki alone with a ted talk background talking about "defensives and why there are too many"