Idea for an episode before next expansion: Have someone that knows the lore as a guest and have them try to educate these Gamers on the story leading into The Worldsoul Saga.
It would be interesting if they actually cared even a little bit about the lore but I don't think they care enough to make an episode like that interesting.
Shoutouts to the base Dragonflight zones. If you really just slow down and admire them, they're absolutely massive, and very unique. It's kind of ironic that we fly through them at supersonic speed, but honestly, we were kind of spoiled this expansion. Idk if the War Within zones will be nearly as impressive, the bar was set high.
I agree, they look great. My only criticism is they feel like they need to be so spread out to accommodate the dragonflying. Im worried all of the zones in the future will start to feel the same because of this.
@@2Namii I feel this is a no win situation for blizzard. If designed for ground explorations the zones feel too concentrated, but if designed for dragonflight they have to be massive and mostly empty. Honestly i preferred the flight later after ground exploration approach (possibly with zones that feel less “gamey” than shadowlands/legion tho) but the community hated that. So I guess we are stuck with the current design since they will never focus on ground exploration again.
IMO the incentive for pushing score to 3000 score should be something like the elite set that PVP has and a gladiator like mount for all 25's, i think that could work well.
I think glad mount is unlikely but I could def see armor. I just doubt they want two mounts for keys. If anything it would maybe make the ksm one glow more or have additional armor? Idk. Give us somethin cool
Love this podcast so far. Three of my favourite people to listen to talk about WoW and everything both current and upcoming, passes a work day brilliantly each week. Keep it going lads.
I can confirm (at 1:05:55) that I am one of those players. Every spec I play, I start with the baseline icy veins build that they recommend, and as I get to know the class and spec better I start to change one or two talents here or there that I find annoying to try to use or just want to replace with something I find more fun or useful. An example of this is in the evoker class tree, all of the top m+ builds always have you taking Oppressing Roar (and a lot of the times Overawe as well) and I talent away from that in basically any week that doesn't have Raging. I just find other talents that aren't as objectively good better choices for me because they fit my playstyle better.
I actually think the profession system has overall been ok. It is complicated and has points of friction but that's always going to happen when you make a system that is more interactable especially on a social level. In the past, the only way you interacted with professions was either by using your own or going to the auction house. Now, if you want to interact with a different profession you have to go in trade chat which some people may not enjoy but there's new life to the main city as well. Also, the crafting order system can be annoying and counter-intuitive in some ways but actually I think the UI for placing crafting orders is quite elegant and shows all the information that you need.
Tons of room for improvement that can happen too. But it's way better than how professions used to be for like a decade or more. It gives a player a reason to use professions for the first time in forever it feels.
I think multiple avenues is always the answer. Easiest way: Interact with others to get help at a certain point of your craft Harder but no need for socializing: Buy items outright that help your craft. I haven't played WoW in games but I think I get the idea through
Professions were bad, but the work order system was the absolute worst part of it. Blizz wanted to make crafted items relevant and felt that the work order system was somehow necessary. It wasn't. You don't need an overly complicated version of the AH to have relevant gear.
The problem with adding rewards higher and higher in m+ is that it doesnt become aspirational its something most players will feel they need to farm each season especially if it has set end goals unlike top1%
@WorstYTChannel yes. The new reward becomes baseline and we will have the same convo when players are asking for something to reward them for doing 30s. we have done this over and over and over already (max rewards were 10s at a point). And when the season isnt free people are going to hate the grind way more
@@Dooferificationnot everyone who pvps gets gladitor mount/title it’s something to encourage people to push higher if the rewards are purely cosmetic and not power driven then there is only fomo on rewards. But if people think they HAVE to get it that is on them.
@@Dooferification So does PvE. If you aren't good enough to get the purely cosmetic rewards but made yourself feel like you needed to get them, that's on you. You sound like you just want whatever the rewards will be but don't want to push high keys.
I think the Quantum items from MR would be a cool reward for doing a 25. Maybe spread them over different levels depending on the item. Armor 22-23, weapon 24-25, mount 26+ for example?
"This is like the first time there has been power behind the professions, right!" It's totally OK to forget about the abomination that was Shadowlands AND it's "crafted" legendaries that required one of the worst professions leveling grind EVER and had huge player power behind it. Wish I could completely forget SL too but those awful horrible memories are drilled way too deep. 😣😣
Would love to see you invite Content Creators of various Specs and people who play different parts of the game, and discuss their class over the course of Dragonflight and what would they like to see in War Within
I think most people don’t care about choice in the talent tree or accessibility to certain things as long as it doesn’t feel bad. To me whenever I’m trying a new class whatever the build is is just how you play that class.
This a probably a less popular take than we realize but I absolutely agree with you. I’ve played warlock since mop. I will continue to main lock regardless. When I play an alt I just pick one that is doing well in the meta and looks fun to play. I couldn’t care less about if I get to play different builds. There’s 30 something different specs. That’s your different builds.
@@zaccole187 I think it really depends on the design of the tree. Havoc DH is actually an incredibly well designed tree. You can play it movement or without movement. Do I need rage fire or the 10% haste after eyebeam? Fel Barrage or can I line up essence break enough to do good aoe? And then there is the no movement glaive tempest build for Tindral which feels different. It's cool. I think it's the best talent tree in the game honestly. Nothing else comes close where choices are easy to identify and make some minor changes. I think this is the choice for talent trees, not massive changes but these small tweaks that could be better on a per fight basis. The worst part of trees right now is aoe/ST talents. It feels so bad having to talent into aoe or ST. Not saying everything should be havoc gameplay, but the design is perfect in the modern age.
@@KevsShwaShwa I’m not disagreeing that there are multiple specs that have multiple flexible builds. I was just stating that I’m not exactly concerned with whether spec “x” uses the same talent build in all content or not. If I want variance I’ll just play a different class or spec. I also mentioned that I realize this take isn’t very popular.
Hot take from an average player: havoc DH and frost DK have the best trees in the game. Because you can play the extra-complicated hardcwore talent trees to squeak out a little more damage, or you can play the more straightforward builds (no mover and obliteration) and still get a lot out of it. This allows players to engage in the vast majority of end-game content while learning their positioning, rotation and utility and then work toward testing/trying the uber-gamer complicated builds. Imagine a simplified arcane mage build that let you get 90% of the throughput...I might consider giving it a try. As it is, you could hand me a fully mythic geared arcane mage today and I would never even touch it. That rotation is radioactive to me.
Bruh, I’ve been playing Subtlety Rogue since TBC and it has always been complicated. In 10.2 it is falling behind other classes and specs. It is doing 8-10% less raid DPS than the meta specs and I am being told by raid-leaders to go assassination. The assa opener and dps rotation is 20 globals! Also you need actual addons to play it properly. I simply refuse to succumb to this gameplay.
Hot take back. Frost is in a terrible place and in general DKs could use at least a minor if not major rework. Frost has too many buttons to the point where at least one ability is macro’d into others. When that’s the case the ability should just be made passive.
@@kymuu2931 if you're only hitting 3 buttons you're doing it wrong. Pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, death and decay, remorseless winter, then depending on spec chill streak, frostscythe, glacial advance, breath of syndragosa, frostwyrm's fury. If all you're doing is just hitting obliterate, howling blast and frost strike it goes a long way to explain all the bad frost DK's I run into.
What Dorki says about players just googling the best spec, if they are boosting there is no doubt a player is looking something up. But if they are leveling for the first time I think it's very low chance players are fully looking up what to play and what to level. They'll just pick and play what they think looks fun and play the specs within it.
My problem with professions is that the system knowledge requirement is put on the buyer (IE you can't just send an order, you need to use certain mat quality, certain required quality if they need an inspiration proc) but the person with the actual system knowledge of how crafting works is the crafter. The buyer doesn't KNOW they are requesting boots that require me to run Brackenhide, so their normal 2k tip is actually garbage. They don't KNOW my inspiration chances and skill requirements or even how those stats work, so they feel like I'm scamming them. I know how it all works because I craft, so crafters end up having to explain to people what buttons to push, and it's not a good experience for either party. I'd like to see them improve the crafting order system or the linking UI so that as I crafter I can either better advertise what I can do and what I need from them. Give me a better way to advertise exactly what I need them to do so that non-crafters don't need to understand a system they have no interest engaging with. Also, with cross server guilds they need cross server crafting orders. AT LEAST for guild orders.
"Max Pug +22s and +26s": he is sooo damn right about this, I had a 24 key all over 3.1k rating yesterday. Hunter guy dies 2 times at the beginning of the dungeon, first pack in DHT, he typed "f@ck you all" and rage quits. Everyone is like, wtf? How did this guy get a 3.2k rating with this attitude? On the other hand the paladin tank with timed 26-27 keys was the most humble and kind guy i ever met in wow....
The community is the reason why world quest are more intricate. In BFA everyone complained that there were too many world quest and we were forced to do them. So in shadowlands they made it where it’s less world quests to do but more complex
I really enjoy watching you guys, some of my favorite content. I think you guys shouldn't be afraid to jump in. Create energy. It seems Dratnos and Dorki seem to be afraid to talk over each other but then there's just a ton of silence. Have conversations, let them get messy and energetic. Let's see your guy's personalities come through, that's why I watch you guys.
On the contrary, I appreciate that they think before they speak and they aren't just acting like a bunch of hyper kids vying for center stage. It's patient and respectful. The WoW community has way too many people who are high strung and high energy, and I pity those who become caricatures of themselves to keep that going for views.
Here's a funny thing about dragonriding that you guys might not be aware of or have paid much attention to: did you know there are multiplayer dragon races that you can do called Rallies? You'd be forgiven for not knowing about them because they don't show up in world quests, have no rewards tied to them, and are only advertised on the world map as a humble checkered flag. It'd be cool if there was an actual dragon racing circuit that people could participate in and get some rewards for by playing together - it wouldn't even have to be a "get first place all the time" type deal, just something that people could enjoy doing some more.
I kinda cooked my own talent trees while leveling up. If you dungeon grind alts from 1-60, you basically gain 1 talent point every time you complete a dungeon. It's far from optimal, but it's a fun opportunity to try all the talents for each class and see how they work together.
For someone who spends all their time talking about wow content (no hate, i love it) it is actually flabbergasting how little of the game Max plays or realistically knows about. If it isn't raid or mythic plus he has no clue. Deer in the headlights, has only heard myths and legends of it. It's like he logs in, gets handed a character and zooms it until he gets bored.
I think an “issue” with some talent trees is less in design but in balance, and if tier sets didn’t change playstyles so heavily then we would never see the 2nd playstyle. I think ele shaman is a great example. They’ve had lightning vs fire in S1 then lightning in S2 now fire in S3. The biggest changes are tier sets vs buffs and nerfs. But the idea of ele spec tree having lightning vs fire and BOTH being able to do aoe and ST decently well is perfect imo. Plenty of specs don’t hit this mark but the ones that do but you don’t get to play it is not an issue of design but balance. Also to the contrary there are specs like boomy that you can get every capstone and your choices start to get made earlier so the idea of designing around duality is sort of lost and it feels like you just don’t have the same level of choice regardless of power
What World Quests can offer - FLIGHTSTONES! It is impossible to farm them efficiently. 60 flightstones per key is ridiculously low. If doing WQs would net atleast like 250/hour, I would farm that shit so hard.
To Dorkis point here... what is the point of the convoluted talent tree VS what we had since MoP... Mop was either 2 playstyles on 2 sides of the 3 choices, or aoe on the left, and single target on the right, and then cleave in the middle ect... So now we just have a more convoluted system with most nodes as just padding or things we should have baseline or +4% damage... whats the point when the only thing that matters is 2 -3 options your considering (which is why they moved to that system in the first place)
One take i feel you all missed with professions: Who has the ability to earn gold if they try? Because for a long time the only good way to earn gold was to sell boosts (which you all have access to). The casual gamer couldn't do this, and gathering professions didn't earn much because crafting was mostly redundant. Professions now give even a 5h/week gamer a decent option to earn a reliable gold income, which they can then use to buy services from boosters. Everyone has a job (if the want one) in this system. (PS: I guess mission tables were the casuals version of earning gold, but that was so boring)
14:00 I’m on a relatively small server cluster. There’s still A GUY you go to if you need a lariat crafted. He bought the pattern for like 4m in 10.0 week 2 and has been famous on the server ever since Shoutout yozomoto
I think if they’re going to give Alch a bonus like they did that makes them actually better they need to give every profession something that is unique and can improve your character or just nothing like that at all
Like you guys stated I look at the cheese builds and change talents accordingly not using full cheese builds and swapping talents around helps me learn all aspects of the classes and just find it to be more fun. But I’m a tinkering kind of person I make all my own weakauras and plater profiles as well. Still manage to do 20’s on all my “scuffed” builds
About the Christmas gifts…I’m at the point in my life where I make more than my parents. So I like legit feel bad when they buy me anything. Best gift from my mom though was a rechargeable fan!!
I'm a decent player, in the 20+ range, and I just play meta trees for the most part. However, my favorite thing to do is experiment and cook my own talent trees. I would only play things that are still extremely close or just good in different scenarios (like better at funnel vs. sustained or something), but I'm too afraid of doing something and being called out or hated on by people, so I just play whatever is Meta. In my experience, there are a lot of people like me who would like to do something slightly off meta and do it well, but are afraid of the social consequences.
i don’t know how many kids play these days, but when i was a tween playing wow (like wotlk, cata) i was DEFINITELY cooking my own builds, playing whatever looked coolest, etc. i bet there’s lots of people still playing in a strictly what-looks-fun way. i was i could go back honestly 😭
to the professions discusion - just make the alchemy/engineering/whatever profession combat bonus, unlocked for all of your toons once you have it with one character (this can be implemented with the warbounds system) "oh but this'll make everyone have 1 character with said professions", the people interested in those bonus were already doing it, and the people who didn't do it, don't care enough to do so
Renown gain rate was a total failure. I should be getting rewards earlier than I can use them to keep the momentum going. It’s frustrating to hit max level on a renown months after something is actually useful.
my biggest problem with the professions as they stand is that there is so little catch up for people getting to a profession late. At the start of the expansion it was possible to profit despite not being maxed, but now you level a profession at a massive loss (or by taking multiple months of weeklies). For dragonriding--I think it will help take away some of the boring travel time for sure. Some problems I have with it are that it forces me to at least pay like 2% attention to the game while going somewhere, it's much harder to land on a small surface, and I can't just afk in the air waiting for a spawn or whatever. I'm glad they're adding the ability to toggle between (supposedly), I just hope that it's as seamless a transition as possible. If I can have a button I press to swap flight modes easily, then I'm good to go. World quests--100% agree with Dratnos. The Legion/BfA WQ system was way better. If only they'd have let us fly from the beginning! I'd happily stop to do a world quest if it was "kill this one guy over here". As of right now, the only reasons to do world quests are rep, or if an alt needs something and you don't have a group that will carry your alt in keys or whatever. The world quest achieves its purpose if it's a quick stop on your way to go do something, and it gives some small reward that isn't really tied to anything super important, but is nice to have (i.e. rep, resources, a little gold, whatever). Also go back to the emissaries from Legion/BfA rather than the callings of SL. Don't make me pick up a stupid quest from my covenant, just push that shit like you did originally. Upgrade system--100% yes. Please keep this system going forward. A few highlights of the system--going over cap on a crest gives lower crests instead, upgrading past the need for a crest level allows you to upgrade those crests, each gear slot will only costs flightstones (and less of them) for lower ilevel items, alts spend less flightstones. As someone that doesn't do mythic raid, and only does a few keys per week, I love this system. I feel like 90% of the power-related content I'm doing has a purpose that isn't the old titanforging system (FUCK titanforging dude, I want to feel like I can eventually get near-bis).
@1:02:49 Me. I do normal and AoTC and if I'm DPS or tank I cook up my own build. If I'm healing i usually look one up then tweak it to fit my play style and my guilds quirks/skill
Blizzard has long stated that the perception of power in the community is hard to sway. So even if a class realistically only needs a 5% damage buff if they just gave them 5% more damage nobody is going to swap. It takes over buffing the class to sway public perception. The best example of this I can think of is feral druid tanks and Paladin tanks in tbc got a massive buff to dethrone warriors and they accomplished this by making them cracked at aoe and in the druids case survivability. Ret pallies we’re historically always weak in WoW and in wotlk the first few patches Ret was so bonkers it was doing 3x the damage of other classes until blizzard brought them in line. They are 100% aiming the tunings on these reworks as higher then average to bait players into coming back and playing with those specs and only once they got those players hooked do they go back in and bring them in line.
Potential solution for single target vs aoe, have both on the same talent. It would take some work but would be healthier if there are some with both, maybe even kiss curse.
If the talent tree talk ever comes back I hope you consider the other factors other than well-performing spec trees. As a shaman I LOVE my enhance tree obviously, because it makes me strong as fuck and because it’s the build I like the most all expansion. Ele I can’t say the same thing, I’ve been locked into weird shit that I don’t really like every single tier. But even worse is our class tree. It looks great on the surface, until you realize that an ele shaman is locked into totemic recall to even have a hope of doing aoe. Now all of a sudden core class utility we’ve had for 15 years isn’t possible to take together. Having my hex/purge/tremor potentially grayed out because it’s optimal to scoop up a bunch of 2% defensive options is “fine” from a gameplay standpoint but feels TERRIBLE from an rpg standpoint.
I honestly miss the old talent system. I feel like it was so much easier for devs to balance for endgame content and I could just pick between a few abilities that had synergies. This new talent system feels like a clusterfuck and the new reworked specs every season will just be overpowered. They haven’t even completed all of the reworks and they are already adding more complication with hero talents next expansion.
I was pleasantly surprised feral was actually talked about. It seems like people avoid talking about feral for the most part, or maybe feral has been a meme for so long that people forget it exists. Terrible class tree for feral. Spec tree needs a real redesign. Blizzard also needs to hire someone good at math to help balance. Get AI to do it.
As a casual player, I always start off with a build from wowhead, the reason being there's so many interactions across talent and hate having to do the math before I choose my talents - specially after a hard day at work when I don't have the mind-space for it. Once I get more comfy on the spec I play around with it a bit but only among utility picks, not throughput. Cuz end of the day, I wanna get my AOTC/KSM and to do that I need be able to do acceptable damage for those levels. TL;DR copy-paste talents.
Class talent tree fails = Resto Shaman, lost practically all our utility AND a ton of dead talents with tons of 2-4 point talents in an already bloated tree. Like if they sat down with Theun for 10 min and made like 4-5 changes the tree would actually be pretty good but they are just off somewhere not listening.
The bad world quests you are describing with all the steps were in shadowlands. I do almost all the world quests I’m Dragonflight and they aren’t really like that anymore. Also dragon riding is one of the reasons I do them all, because it’s so way to travel between them
I think the idea scenario of talent tree balance as far as ST/AoE would be having like...3-4 talent points, or maybe more idk, but the idea would be to incur a slight-ish ST lost, like 5-10%, in return for getting all of your AoE. Or having the option to drop like...1-2 points to take something that lets you cleave 1 target for certain fights better. Like replicating shadows for sub, or enhanced sweeping strikes for arms.
I think a really simple way to make World Quest rewards better would be to add items like the random cosmetics at the end of Dawn Rise. Maybe even the random mount chance at the end of the bigger world quests.
There was a giant discord for the crafting cartel and if someone found a crafter undercutting certain prices they would post a screenshot and the entire discord would log in and mass report them.
add flightstones to wqs like idk why we dont have a way to just go out into the world and spend an hour or w.e doing world stuff and get 2k flightstones
I feel like a quick and easy way they could instantly add some cosmetic incentives to doing higher keys than +20s for vaults and portals would just be to work it into the Trading Post system. If the game awarded 100 Trader's Tender for each "all keys done at X level" above 20, I think midcore people would start pushing a lot harder.
I think a good idea is to have some guest on that are “normie” players. Someone who runs +18s/+20s, AOTC and then a few mythic kills. To hear a little different perspective of some topics and the game. Would be interesting since many of the topics you all talk about are from that higher level of content type player.
I'm somewhat torn on talent trees, because they can't balance them. Stuff that reads like it would be good turn out to be bad in the actual gameplay, so I feel like I have to look up what other players/ theorycrafters come up with to avoid gimping myself
Then you have stark differences like the DH dev vs the Paladin dev DH constantly talks in the discord with theorycrafters and asks what painpoints are. Pally dev is in the shadows and has no fucking idea how to even play the game
Big miss on the professiona change: you wont experience it on the Illidan, Area 52s, etc servers....but the small servers may not have a crafter that can do weapons, plate belts, lariats etc. It further pushed the smaller pop servers behind. Sure, it may be their choice to be there. Perhaps they joined 8+ years ago to a "new" or "recommended" server, not knowing the struggle. If it was cheaper/free to character transfer, then i might consider moving my 8 max level characters that i play to a bigger server. But it honestly shouldn't come to that.
Yeah sure Feral was in the World First Kills and all, but it has just Major Problems when you see the Talent Tree.. And not only Spec but Class Tree too. If you look at either Warcraftlogs for Mythic Raid 90th or M+ overall Performance, Feral is Dead Last on both.
I cook up my KC build for BM hunter and it became the best M+ build outside of 2 talents that I didn't took which after reading IA very fair. The Zoo build will be better with 4 piece of Teir sets
i fully went into the proffesion system in 10.1 and think its a fantastic system i love it, artisans mettle keeps the economy somewhat in check (server based), i dont spam trade chat either i just wait for people to past LFC and whisper them
World quests could be used for catch up. Increased rep from the old reps. Maybe a 1-2 per week for profession knowledge. Even things like the Lariet recipe or something equally rare. (maybe a currency to obtain that through not RNG. 15k Dragon isle supplies for the Lariet recipe sounds fair)
I love the podcast, but I actually hate the upgrade system. Farming a million crests for professions and tiny little upgrades on gear is anti-fun for me.
Crafting system was absolutely a failure this expansion. Public orders are just full of scammers trying to get you to make pieces using your expensive mats, so ya we’re back to just spamming trade chat hoping somebody can fill, no idea what it will cost or what you should charge if you’re making, and no idea how it will come out. The luck involved in getting ilvls is really bad. And buyers have no idea what they’re asking for, and you have to do all this mental arithmetic of what the difficulty will come out to be, and the exact benefit of crafting something multiple times is kinda obscured. It’s just bad.
They should add an in game leaderboard for M+ scores. If people could see their rank and other ppls rank that would drive a lot of ppl to keep pushing m+
Professions are far better than they were in Shadowlands. I'd say the biggest miss is the lack of transperancy/clarity on how to get path to get a desired outcome, especially when there is a no reversal options. I could see a "refund" or "respec" of spec points being very useful, but it should be extremely expensive (>100k) or super long cooldown (>month), or even both. No path to correct a mistake and very time gated talent points is frustrating for no good reason.
I wanna piggyback to this comment. I think professions lessened the gap for wow from an RPG to a MMORPG. Even if this made more friction in the game and not everybody could do it well or some people just made an insane amount of gold from them. That is what in my opinion should be an MMO. All systems interacting to make a world. Not just 17 differents systems where if you decide to not interact with 16 of them, you dont lose anything.
I enjoyed this episode. Professions: I really really loved professions this time around, however, I do think it was way too complicated/complex. Trying to explain that stuff to my guild and friends was annoying. Gathering professions should have been done like Legion, imo, but I understand they really couldn't do it or you'd feel cheated. Legion it was really really fun to go around gathering stuff, whereas this time around it felt really annoying. I actually love specializations more where you have to choose 1 thing and specialize in it. I understand how annoying it is for people, but I don't care. It's annoying IRL finding people to do specific things, yet we still do it anyways. Might as well be apart of the game, too. I don't think we needed 5 ranks, I honestly think 3 would have sufficed and in order to get to rank 3 you have to undergo rigorous training or something or very high level of commitment/points in. I also think for professions it will be cooler, going forward, to have 2 specializations. You cannot put points in outside of these specializations, but you get 2. Again, it will be annoying to find people specializing in these, however, the cool factor outweighs it by far. I also loved profession gear playing a huge part towards the regular playerbase. Like I love that you can craft 486 ilvl gear in season 3 when mythic raiding goes to like 489. That's seriously awesome and closes the gap so much, in terms of gear/power. The rest just becomes a skill issue.Idk why inspiration was called inspiration, it should have just stayed crit or something because that's basically what it is. Maybe next expansion they could add us being able to add in tertiary stats into crafted gear. Talent tree cooks: I do like how max said with mine. Like, I swap 1-2 talents from the regular build, though I will actually raidbots it to see what the difference is between the build I want to play and the most optimal build. I do not mind losing up to 10-15% damage in exchange for having my own fun, however, if it's more than 15% difference then I will not play my own. 5% damage isn't actually huge unless you're looking at Mythic/CE raiding, but for AotC and Normal it's entirely fine and not a big deal at all. 15% isn't too big of a difference, either, when it comes to AotC or even up to +20s I only usually do up to +18s realistically speaking, but yeah. Like, I play Affliction Warlock as one of my main DPS and I will run Absolute Corruption over SL on even pure ST. I just love the thought of having a permanent DoT, and less things to manage. The difference between Siphon Life and Absolute Corruption is 6% alone on ST so I will run with that. Back in SL I ran with Grimiore of Sacrifice as a Necrolord and even found out that it was bugged with it's APL on raidbots. It actually was saying GoSac is behind 30-35% with my specific talent setup with Necrolord selected and I brought it up to both Warlock Discord and to the raidbots people, themselves, and found out from Lock discord that the raidbots APL people had it wrong and hadn't updated their APL and when they swapped it was only about 12% loss over 30-35% it was saying.
In defense of new crafting system my guild used it a lot as a way to recruit people. Our GM has most of profs and recipes and her alts and she sometimes recruit her regular clients for the guild. Oh, and also I do world quests sometimes for gold.
Yea, the crafting system was great for people who had established guilds and communities. I spent DF as the official crafter for a guild, They go get CE wearing a bunch of stuff I made, I get gold and lots of friends, it's great. But for the true "solo player" it's probably a lot more challenging.
When it comes to the professions, they half assed it, as soon as the new system was released they did not do anything with it and there is no catch up with profession knowledge new players are heavily time gated.
@51:26 that is literally what I was afraid when they decided to "rework" holy paladin to accommodate the "caster build". Bunch of old heads stuck in the past wanted to play holy paladin like they played it in Wotlk (basically holy priest with plate armor) and were crying about it while the current holy pally enjoyers were decently happy with the gameplay loop. Now, it's been reworked to allow those "caster builds" the people that cried about it to have it either play it as an alt or don't play it at all because it still fundamentally different from what they wanted and the actual pally community lost the spec identity by having to play a clunky all over the place, bloated, spec. Holy points on a melee healer is an interesting take and change to the healer archetype and we are losing it over trying to have pally play as fucking holy priest. Spenders are shit, the only generator that feels good is Holy shock and while i like the current iteration of holy shock its just absurd that you use that over everything every time regardless of situation, holy point cap wtv... Bring back holy paladin from before the rework and we're set. let us play in dungeon with virtue and be gods of splash healing during those virtue periods and let us have some skill expression. daybreak is a fun cd tho, everything else is utter garbage (tyrs deliverance is strong but its just another "wild growth" or "stop for 1.2 seconds to cast a bunch of hots). I used to look at paladin and if I had to stop to cast spells it felt bad, now its ingrained. Min maxing Dusk and Dawn was kinda hard to do but its infinitely more fun however i kinda understand its rework and functions a bit better.
For talent trees for sure. On all my alts I just go into wowhead and pick the build it tells me to play. I decide off that if I want to play that class/spec and do a bit more research for why this build is so good. It is too hard to keep up with all the changes. I think changes are good and make the game better for sure, but I don't have time to learn them natty. With how meta gaming is literally part of every game now, the research is done for me so I don't have to really think about my choices.
About professions this expansion gotta make the daily profession knowledge account wide. I’m fine with the treasures being not account wide but the weekly knowledge not being is the worse when u wanna do the profession again on alt/ different realm
If only one crafter had a legendary craft they would be able to run the market and if you thought prices for crafts were too high in shadowlands or right now they would be exponentially higher if one person could control it. As far as the talent trees i bet a lot of solo player hit the automatic standard build make a few adjustments for some stuff they may like and run with it.
For the talent trees, it would feel great if every choice was balanced. While leveling, I picked what seemed fun/cool for what I was doing. Once getting ready to raid I started looking up guides and swimming, and it's shocking how poorly balanced many talents are making them not realistic choices. If they want the trees to be actual choices, they have to be very closely balanced. For single vs multi target, the optimal for me would be multiple talents that let you choose single vs multi target at a percent a piece so that you can choose how much single target you want to lose and how much multi you want to add
I don't know how to do it, but it would be great to get guests that kind of represent different perspectives about the game and compare and contrast your experiences with theirs. Maybe get an AOTC casual player, a PvPer, etc.
I think if world quests rewarded old cosmetics from prev raids of the exp would be great. Itd be great for those who wanted the tmogs but couldnt play the game instead of hoping to set up a raid for old content. Im sure some people would wanna get the priest mogs.
Idea for an episode before next expansion: Have someone that knows the lore as a guest and have them try to educate these Gamers on the story leading into The Worldsoul Saga.
Would be really funny seeing Nobbel, PlatinumWoW, or Pyromancer trying to make it make sense to them
Nobbel is the clear choice given the series he’s done with Crendor
Nobbel or Bellular would be great for this! Great episode idea btw!
The story always sucks though. As if it was written by a 10 year old. THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!!!!!
It would be interesting if they actually cared even a little bit about the lore but I don't think they care enough to make an episode like that interesting.
I enjoy Dorki being in the m+ gamer padded cell
Shoutouts to the base Dragonflight zones. If you really just slow down and admire them, they're absolutely massive, and very unique. It's kind of ironic that we fly through them at supersonic speed, but honestly, we were kind of spoiled this expansion. Idk if the War Within zones will be nearly as impressive, the bar was set high.
I agree, they look great. My only criticism is they feel like they need to be so spread out to accommodate the dragonflying.
Im worried all of the zones in the future will start to feel the same because of this.
@@2Namii I feel this is a no win situation for blizzard. If designed for ground explorations the zones feel too concentrated, but if designed for dragonflight they have to be massive and mostly empty.
Honestly i preferred the flight later after ground exploration approach (possibly with zones that feel less “gamey” than shadowlands/legion tho) but the community hated that. So I guess we are stuck with the current design since they will never focus on ground exploration again.
IMO the incentive for pushing score to 3000 score should be something like the elite set that PVP has and a gladiator like mount for all 25's, i think that could work well.
I think glad mount is unlikely but I could def see armor. I just doubt they want two mounts for keys. If anything it would maybe make the ksm one glow more or have additional armor? Idk. Give us somethin cool
Love this podcast so far. Three of my favourite people to listen to talk about WoW and everything both current and upcoming, passes a work day brilliantly each week. Keep it going lads.
I love listening to this podcast every week. Please keep this going throughout the year.
o7
never been able to get into a gaming podcast but i love this one
I can confirm (at 1:05:55) that I am one of those players. Every spec I play, I start with the baseline icy veins build that they recommend, and as I get to know the class and spec better I start to change one or two talents here or there that I find annoying to try to use or just want to replace with something I find more fun or useful. An example of this is in the evoker class tree, all of the top m+ builds always have you taking Oppressing Roar (and a lot of the times Overawe as well) and I talent away from that in basically any week that doesn't have Raging. I just find other talents that aren't as objectively good better choices for me because they fit my playstyle better.
I actually think the profession system has overall been ok. It is complicated and has points of friction but that's always going to happen when you make a system that is more interactable especially on a social level. In the past, the only way you interacted with professions was either by using your own or going to the auction house. Now, if you want to interact with a different profession you have to go in trade chat which some people may not enjoy but there's new life to the main city as well.
Also, the crafting order system can be annoying and counter-intuitive in some ways but actually I think the UI for placing crafting orders is quite elegant and shows all the information that you need.
Tons of room for improvement that can happen too. But it's way better than how professions used to be for like a decade or more. It gives a player a reason to use professions for the first time in forever it feels.
I think multiple avenues is always the answer.
Easiest way: Interact with others to get help at a certain point of your craft
Harder but no need for socializing: Buy items outright that help your craft.
I haven't played WoW in games but I think I get the idea through
Professions were bad, but the work order system was the absolute worst part of it. Blizz wanted to make crafted items relevant and felt that the work order system was somehow necessary. It wasn't. You don't need an overly complicated version of the AH to have relevant gear.
Forcing Dorki to make a choice had me rolling. Can relate so fuckin hard lmaoooooooooo. Great content as always!
The problem with adding rewards higher and higher in m+ is that it doesnt become aspirational its something most players will feel they need to farm each season especially if it has set end goals unlike top1%
More people encouraged to do mythic plus at a higher level is a bad thing how?
@WorstYTChannel yes. The new reward becomes baseline and we will have the same convo when players are asking for something to reward them for doing 30s. we have done this over and over and over already (max rewards were 10s at a point). And when the season isnt free people are going to hate the grind way more
@@Dooferificationnot everyone who pvps gets gladitor mount/title it’s something to encourage people to push higher if the rewards are purely cosmetic and not power driven then there is only fomo on rewards. But if people think they HAVE to get it that is on them.
@WorstYTChannel the difference between pvp and pve is pve has beatable end goals.
@@Dooferification So does PvE. If you aren't good enough to get the purely cosmetic rewards but made yourself feel like you needed to get them, that's on you. You sound like you just want whatever the rewards will be but don't want to push high keys.
I think the Quantum items from MR would be a cool reward for doing a 25. Maybe spread them over different levels depending on the item. Armor 22-23, weapon 24-25, mount 26+ for example?
Listening to these 3 talk about crafting is painful... like genuinely painful.
"This is like the first time there has been power behind the professions, right!"
It's totally OK to forget about the abomination that was Shadowlands AND it's "crafted" legendaries that required one of the worst professions leveling grind EVER and had huge player power behind it. Wish I could completely forget SL too but those awful horrible memories are drilled way too deep. 😣😣
Would love to see you invite Content Creators of various Specs and people who play different parts of the game, and discuss their class over the course of Dragonflight and what would they like to see in War Within
I think most people don’t care about choice in the talent tree or accessibility to certain things as long as it doesn’t feel bad. To me whenever I’m trying a new class whatever the build is is just how you play that class.
This a probably a less popular take than we realize but I absolutely agree with you. I’ve played warlock since mop. I will continue to main lock regardless.
When I play an alt I just pick one that is doing well in the meta and looks fun to play. I couldn’t care less about if I get to play different builds. There’s 30 something different specs. That’s your different builds.
@@zaccole187 I think it really depends on the design of the tree. Havoc DH is actually an incredibly well designed tree. You can play it movement or without movement. Do I need rage fire or the 10% haste after eyebeam? Fel Barrage or can I line up essence break enough to do good aoe? And then there is the no movement glaive tempest build for Tindral which feels different. It's cool. I think it's the best talent tree in the game honestly. Nothing else comes close where choices are easy to identify and make some minor changes.
I think this is the choice for talent trees, not massive changes but these small tweaks that could be better on a per fight basis.
The worst part of trees right now is aoe/ST talents. It feels so bad having to talent into aoe or ST. Not saying everything should be havoc gameplay, but the design is perfect in the modern age.
I think enhance shaman is about on par in terms of good tree design, flexibility and feeling good to play.
@@KevsShwaShwa I’m not disagreeing that there are multiple specs that have multiple flexible builds. I was just stating that I’m not exactly concerned with whether spec “x” uses the same talent build in all content or not. If I want variance I’ll just play a different class or spec. I also mentioned that I realize this take isn’t very popular.
Hot take from an average player: havoc DH and frost DK have the best trees in the game. Because you can play the extra-complicated hardcwore talent trees to squeak out a little more damage, or you can play the more straightforward builds (no mover and obliteration) and still get a lot out of it. This allows players to engage in the vast majority of end-game content while learning their positioning, rotation and utility and then work toward testing/trying the uber-gamer complicated builds. Imagine a simplified arcane mage build that let you get 90% of the throughput...I might consider giving it a try. As it is, you could hand me a fully mythic geared arcane mage today and I would never even touch it. That rotation is radioactive to me.
Bruh, I’ve been playing Subtlety Rogue since TBC and it has always been complicated. In 10.2 it is falling behind other classes and specs. It is doing 8-10% less raid DPS than the meta specs and I am being told by raid-leaders to go assassination. The assa opener and dps rotation is 20 globals! Also you need actual addons to play it properly. I simply refuse to succumb to this gameplay.
@@rmadzharovI thought Sub is better than Assa rn bc Assa has been getting multiple nerfs
Hot take back. Frost is in a terrible place and in general DKs could use at least a minor if not major rework.
Frost has too many buttons to the point where at least one ability is macro’d into others. When that’s the case the ability should just be made passive.
@@poorwowgameplayfirst time in history anyone has thought frost dk is complicated its a legit 3 button spec
@@kymuu2931 if you're only hitting 3 buttons you're doing it wrong. Pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, death and decay, remorseless winter, then depending on spec chill streak, frostscythe, glacial advance, breath of syndragosa, frostwyrm's fury.
If all you're doing is just hitting obliterate, howling blast and frost strike it goes a long way to explain all the bad frost DK's I run into.
I think hunter survivability is worse in M+ than raid because we don't always get that Tenacity 10% hp pet
Happy new year, I've been loving this podcast and hope to see it much more in the coming year.
What Dorki says about players just googling the best spec, if they are boosting there is no doubt a player is looking something up. But if they are leveling for the first time I think it's very low chance players are fully looking up what to play and what to level. They'll just pick and play what they think looks fun and play the specs within it.
Happy new year! Been watching my sub box all day for this
HAPPY NEW YEARS
My problem with professions is that the system knowledge requirement is put on the buyer (IE you can't just send an order, you need to use certain mat quality, certain required quality if they need an inspiration proc) but the person with the actual system knowledge of how crafting works is the crafter. The buyer doesn't KNOW they are requesting boots that require me to run Brackenhide, so their normal 2k tip is actually garbage. They don't KNOW my inspiration chances and skill requirements or even how those stats work, so they feel like I'm scamming them. I know how it all works because I craft, so crafters end up having to explain to people what buttons to push, and it's not a good experience for either party.
I'd like to see them improve the crafting order system or the linking UI so that as I crafter I can either better advertise what I can do and what I need from them. Give me a better way to advertise exactly what I need them to do so that non-crafters don't need to understand a system they have no interest engaging with.
Also, with cross server guilds they need cross server crafting orders. AT LEAST for guild orders.
"Max Pug +22s and +26s": he is sooo damn right about this, I had a 24 key all over 3.1k rating yesterday. Hunter guy dies 2 times at the beginning of the dungeon, first pack in DHT, he typed "f@ck you all" and rage quits. Everyone is like, wtf? How did this guy get a 3.2k rating with this attitude? On the other hand the paladin tank with timed 26-27 keys was the most humble and kind guy i ever met in wow....
The community is the reason why world quest are more intricate. In BFA everyone complained that there were too many world quest and we were forced to do them. So in shadowlands they made it where it’s less world quests to do but more complex
PodyC to start the year. let's fuckin go
“It’s a lot of fun” -Dorki in the most monotone voice ever
I really enjoy watching you guys, some of my favorite content. I think you guys shouldn't be afraid to jump in. Create energy. It seems Dratnos and Dorki seem to be afraid to talk over each other but then there's just a ton of silence.
Have conversations, let them get messy and energetic. Let's see your guy's personalities come through, that's why I watch you guys.
On the contrary, I appreciate that they think before they speak and they aren't just acting like a bunch of hyper kids vying for center stage. It's patient and respectful. The WoW community has way too many people who are high strung and high energy, and I pity those who become caricatures of themselves to keep that going for views.
confirmed Dookie is a bouje nerd. love my artisan lol
Here's a funny thing about dragonriding that you guys might not be aware of or have paid much attention to: did you know there are multiplayer dragon races that you can do called Rallies? You'd be forgiven for not knowing about them because they don't show up in world quests, have no rewards tied to them, and are only advertised on the world map as a humble checkered flag. It'd be cool if there was an actual dragon racing circuit that people could participate in and get some rewards for by playing together - it wouldn't even have to be a "get first place all the time" type deal, just something that people could enjoy doing some more.
I kinda cooked my own talent trees while leveling up. If you dungeon grind alts from 1-60, you basically gain 1 talent point every time you complete a dungeon. It's far from optimal, but it's a fun opportunity to try all the talents for each class and see how they work together.
For someone who spends all their time talking about wow content (no hate, i love it) it is actually flabbergasting how little of the game Max plays or realistically knows about.
If it isn't raid or mythic plus he has no clue. Deer in the headlights, has only heard myths and legends of it. It's like he logs in, gets handed a character and zooms it until he gets bored.
I think an “issue” with some talent trees is less in design but in balance, and if tier sets didn’t change playstyles so heavily then we would never see the 2nd playstyle. I think ele shaman is a great example. They’ve had lightning vs fire in S1 then lightning in S2 now fire in S3. The biggest changes are tier sets vs buffs and nerfs. But the idea of ele spec tree having lightning vs fire and BOTH being able to do aoe and ST decently well is perfect imo. Plenty of specs don’t hit this mark but the ones that do but you don’t get to play it is not an issue of design but balance. Also to the contrary there are specs like boomy that you can get every capstone and your choices start to get made earlier so the idea of designing around duality is sort of lost and it feels like you just don’t have the same level of choice regardless of power
What World Quests can offer - FLIGHTSTONES!
It is impossible to farm them efficiently. 60 flightstones per key is ridiculously low. If doing WQs would net atleast like 250/hour, I would farm that shit so hard.
To Dorkis point here... what is the point of the convoluted talent tree VS what we had since MoP... Mop was either 2 playstyles on 2 sides of the 3 choices, or aoe on the left, and single target on the right, and then cleave in the middle ect... So now we just have a more convoluted system with most nodes as just padding or things we should have baseline or +4% damage... whats the point when the only thing that matters is 2 -3 options your considering (which is why they moved to that system in the first place)
One take i feel you all missed with professions: Who has the ability to earn gold if they try? Because for a long time the only good way to earn gold was to sell boosts (which you all have access to). The casual gamer couldn't do this, and gathering professions didn't earn much because crafting was mostly redundant.
Professions now give even a 5h/week gamer a decent option to earn a reliable gold income, which they can then use to buy services from boosters. Everyone has a job (if the want one) in this system.
(PS: I guess mission tables were the casuals version of earning gold, but that was so boring)
Have had a pair of Audeze Maxwell's for awhile now. Love them!
14:00 I’m on a relatively small server cluster.
There’s still A GUY you go to if you need a lariat crafted.
He bought the pattern for like 4m in 10.0 week 2 and has been famous on the server ever since
Shoutout yozomoto
I think if they’re going to give Alch a bonus like they did that makes them actually better they need to give every profession something that is unique and can improve your character or just nothing like that at all
Like you guys stated I look at the cheese builds and change talents accordingly not using full cheese builds and swapping talents around helps me learn all aspects of the classes and just find it to be more fun. But I’m a tinkering kind of person I make all my own weakauras and plater profiles as well. Still manage to do 20’s on all my “scuffed” builds
omfg i love dratnos. That world quest stag slingshot bit was unreal
“Anti new talent tree ‘sentipents’….” Dorkiiii huhhh
The pear clutching at thinking about Myth track gear dropping outside of raid.
About the Christmas gifts…I’m at the point in my life where I make more than my parents. So I like legit feel bad when they buy me anything. Best gift from my mom though was a rechargeable fan!!
Our mythic guild in SL had one of only literally a couple necrolord ret pallys the whole expac
I'm a decent player, in the 20+ range, and I just play meta trees for the most part. However, my favorite thing to do is experiment and cook my own talent trees. I would only play things that are still extremely close or just good in different scenarios (like better at funnel vs. sustained or something), but I'm too afraid of doing something and being called out or hated on by people, so I just play whatever is Meta. In my experience, there are a lot of people like me who would like to do something slightly off meta and do it well, but are afraid of the social consequences.
i don’t know how many kids play these days, but when i was a tween playing wow (like wotlk, cata) i was DEFINITELY cooking my own builds, playing whatever looked coolest, etc. i bet there’s lots of people still playing in a strictly what-looks-fun way. i was i could go back honestly 😭
to the professions discusion - just make the alchemy/engineering/whatever profession combat bonus, unlocked for all of your toons once you have it with one character (this can be implemented with the warbounds system)
"oh but this'll make everyone have 1 character with said professions", the people interested in those bonus were already doing it, and the people who didn't do it, don't care enough to do so
Renown gain rate was a total failure. I should be getting rewards earlier than I can use them to keep the momentum going. It’s frustrating to hit max level on a renown months after something is actually useful.
Arms warrior seems super weak to rot damage too, Liquid's warrior rerolled to Floorior for tindral. guy was floor pov at least every other pull lmao
damn max getting the synthetic rink is the dream. those things are awesome
my biggest problem with the professions as they stand is that there is so little catch up for people getting to a profession late. At the start of the expansion it was possible to profit despite not being maxed, but now you level a profession at a massive loss (or by taking multiple months of weeklies).
For dragonriding--I think it will help take away some of the boring travel time for sure. Some problems I have with it are that it forces me to at least pay like 2% attention to the game while going somewhere, it's much harder to land on a small surface, and I can't just afk in the air waiting for a spawn or whatever. I'm glad they're adding the ability to toggle between (supposedly), I just hope that it's as seamless a transition as possible. If I can have a button I press to swap flight modes easily, then I'm good to go.
World quests--100% agree with Dratnos. The Legion/BfA WQ system was way better. If only they'd have let us fly from the beginning! I'd happily stop to do a world quest if it was "kill this one guy over here". As of right now, the only reasons to do world quests are rep, or if an alt needs something and you don't have a group that will carry your alt in keys or whatever. The world quest achieves its purpose if it's a quick stop on your way to go do something, and it gives some small reward that isn't really tied to anything super important, but is nice to have (i.e. rep, resources, a little gold, whatever). Also go back to the emissaries from Legion/BfA rather than the callings of SL. Don't make me pick up a stupid quest from my covenant, just push that shit like you did originally.
Upgrade system--100% yes. Please keep this system going forward. A few highlights of the system--going over cap on a crest gives lower crests instead, upgrading past the need for a crest level allows you to upgrade those crests, each gear slot will only costs flightstones (and less of them) for lower ilevel items, alts spend less flightstones. As someone that doesn't do mythic raid, and only does a few keys per week, I love this system. I feel like 90% of the power-related content I'm doing has a purpose that isn't the old titanforging system (FUCK titanforging dude, I want to feel like I can eventually get near-bis).
50:56 it's also there for Fury,... Raging Blow vs. Bloodthirst Build
@1:02:49 Me. I do normal and AoTC and if I'm DPS or tank I cook up my own build. If I'm healing i usually look one up then tweak it to fit my play style and my guilds quirks/skill
Blizzard has long stated that the perception of power in the community is hard to sway. So even if a class realistically only needs a 5% damage buff if they just gave them 5% more damage nobody is going to swap. It takes over buffing the class to sway public perception. The best example of this I can think of is feral druid tanks and Paladin tanks in tbc got a massive buff to dethrone warriors and they accomplished this by making them cracked at aoe and in the druids case survivability. Ret pallies we’re historically always weak in WoW and in wotlk the first few patches Ret was so bonkers it was doing 3x the damage of other classes until blizzard brought them in line. They are 100% aiming the tunings on these reworks as higher then average to bait players into coming back and playing with those specs and only once they got those players hooked do they go back in and bring them in line.
Potential solution for single target vs aoe, have both on the same talent. It would take some work but would be healthier if there are some with both, maybe even kiss curse.
Before i started mythic raiding i just picked Kyrian because i liked it aesthetically
If the talent tree talk ever comes back I hope you consider the other factors other than well-performing spec trees.
As a shaman I LOVE my enhance tree obviously, because it makes me strong as fuck and because it’s the build I like the most all expansion. Ele I can’t say the same thing, I’ve been locked into weird shit that I don’t really like every single tier.
But even worse is our class tree. It looks great on the surface, until you realize that an ele shaman is locked into totemic recall to even have a hope of doing aoe. Now all of a sudden core class utility we’ve had for 15 years isn’t possible to take together. Having my hex/purge/tremor potentially grayed out because it’s optimal to scoop up a bunch of 2% defensive options is “fine” from a gameplay standpoint but feels TERRIBLE from an rpg standpoint.
johnny smizzels is our jewlery guy on kel'thaz and has been all expansion
I honestly miss the old talent system. I feel like it was so much easier for devs to balance for endgame content and I could just pick between a few abilities that had synergies. This new talent system feels like a clusterfuck and the new reworked specs every season will just be overpowered.
They haven’t even completed all of the reworks and they are already adding more complication with hero talents next expansion.
I was pleasantly surprised feral was actually talked about. It seems like people avoid talking about feral for the most part, or maybe feral has been a meme for so long that people forget it exists. Terrible class tree for feral. Spec tree needs a real redesign.
Blizzard also needs to hire someone good at math to help balance. Get AI to do it.
I totally agree with Dorki about Feral. Feels great to get a little shine for once but holy christ do we feel squishy in M+
As a casual player, I always start off with a build from wowhead, the reason being there's so many interactions across talent and hate having to do the math before I choose my talents - specially after a hard day at work when I don't have the mind-space for it. Once I get more comfy on the spec I play around with it a bit but only among utility picks, not throughput. Cuz end of the day, I wanna get my AOTC/KSM and to do that I need be able to do acceptable damage for those levels. TL;DR copy-paste talents.
Class talent tree fails = Resto Shaman, lost practically all our utility AND a ton of dead talents with tons of 2-4 point talents in an already bloated tree. Like if they sat down with Theun for 10 min and made like 4-5 changes the tree would actually be pretty good but they are just off somewhere not listening.
The bad world quests you are describing with all the steps were in shadowlands.
I do almost all the world quests I’m Dragonflight and they aren’t really like that anymore. Also dragon riding is one of the reasons I do them all, because it’s so way to travel between them
I think the idea scenario of talent tree balance as far as ST/AoE would be having like...3-4 talent points, or maybe more idk, but the idea would be to incur a slight-ish ST lost, like 5-10%, in return for getting all of your AoE. Or having the option to drop like...1-2 points to take something that lets you cleave 1 target for certain fights better. Like replicating shadows for sub, or enhanced sweeping strikes for arms.
I think a really simple way to make World Quest rewards better would be to add items like the random cosmetics at the end of Dawn Rise. Maybe even the random mount chance at the end of the bigger world quests.
There was a giant discord for the crafting cartel and if someone found a crafter undercutting certain prices they would post a screenshot and the entire discord would log in and mass report them.
add flightstones to wqs like idk why we dont have a way to just go out into the world and spend an hour or w.e doing world stuff and get 2k flightstones
I feel like a quick and easy way they could instantly add some cosmetic incentives to doing higher keys than +20s for vaults and portals would just be to work it into the Trading Post system. If the game awarded 100 Trader's Tender for each "all keys done at X level" above 20, I think midcore people would start pushing a lot harder.
I think a good idea is to have some guest on that are “normie” players. Someone who runs +18s/+20s, AOTC and then a few mythic kills. To hear a little different perspective of some topics and the game. Would be interesting since many of the topics you all talk about are from that higher level of content type player.
Great episode
happy new years guys 🎉
I'm somewhat torn on talent trees, because they can't balance them. Stuff that reads like it would be good turn out to be bad in the actual gameplay, so I feel like I have to look up what other players/ theorycrafters come up with to avoid gimping myself
Then you have stark differences like the DH dev vs the Paladin dev
DH constantly talks in the discord with theorycrafters and asks what painpoints are.
Pally dev is in the shadows and has no fucking idea how to even play the game
Big miss on the professiona change: you wont experience it on the Illidan, Area 52s, etc servers....but the small servers may not have a crafter that can do weapons, plate belts, lariats etc. It further pushed the smaller pop servers behind. Sure, it may be their choice to be there. Perhaps they joined 8+ years ago to a "new" or "recommended" server, not knowing the struggle. If it was cheaper/free to character transfer, then i might consider moving my 8 max level characters that i play to a bigger server. But it honestly shouldn't come to that.
Yeah sure Feral was in the World First Kills and all, but it has just Major Problems when you see the Talent Tree.. And not only Spec but Class Tree too. If you look at either Warcraftlogs for Mythic Raid 90th or M+ overall Performance, Feral is Dead Last on both.
I loved the conversation about talents because I was like, Hunter has none of the nice things, must be nice to be a rework class of any kind.
I cook up my KC build for BM hunter and it became the best M+ build outside of 2 talents that I didn't took which after reading IA very fair. The Zoo build will be better with 4 piece of Teir sets
That Dratnos intro was so good lol
i fully went into the proffesion system in 10.1 and think its a fantastic system i love it, artisans mettle keeps the economy somewhat in check (server based), i dont spam trade chat either i just wait for people to past LFC and whisper them
World quests could be used for catch up. Increased rep from the old reps. Maybe a 1-2 per week for profession knowledge. Even things like the Lariet recipe or something equally rare. (maybe a currency to obtain that through not RNG. 15k Dragon isle supplies for the Lariet recipe sounds fair)
I love the podcast, but I actually hate the upgrade system. Farming a million crests for professions and tiny little upgrades on gear is anti-fun for me.
Crafting system was absolutely a failure this expansion.
Public orders are just full of scammers trying to get you to make pieces using your expensive mats, so ya we’re back to just spamming trade chat hoping somebody can fill, no idea what it will cost or what you should charge if you’re making, and no idea how it will come out. The luck involved in getting ilvls is really bad. And buyers have no idea what they’re asking for, and you have to do all this mental arithmetic of what the difficulty will come out to be, and the exact benefit of crafting something multiple times is kinda obscured.
It’s just bad.
They should add an in game leaderboard for M+ scores. If people could see their rank and other ppls rank that would drive a lot of ppl to keep pushing m+
u can check on raiderio tho
Didnt know max was a hockey guy. Leys goo
Did a ton of WQs purely to get rep, now I only do the races for the gold because all my rep is maxed
Professions are far better than they were in Shadowlands. I'd say the biggest miss is the lack of transperancy/clarity on how to get path to get a desired outcome, especially when there is a no reversal options. I could see a "refund" or "respec" of spec points being very useful, but it should be extremely expensive (>100k) or super long cooldown (>month), or even both. No path to correct a mistake and very time gated talent points is frustrating for no good reason.
The frost fire stuff was the best way to do crafting as far as farming and being a professions guy
Dear lord. A month.
I wanna piggyback to this comment. I think professions lessened the gap for wow from an RPG to a MMORPG. Even if this made more friction in the game and not everybody could do it well or some people just made an insane amount of gold from them. That is what in my opinion should be an MMO. All systems interacting to make a world. Not just 17 differents systems where if you decide to not interact with 16 of them, you dont lose anything.
I enjoyed this episode.
Professions: I really really loved professions this time around, however, I do think it was way too complicated/complex. Trying to explain that stuff to my guild and friends was annoying. Gathering professions should have been done like Legion, imo, but I understand they really couldn't do it or you'd feel cheated. Legion it was really really fun to go around gathering stuff, whereas this time around it felt really annoying. I actually love specializations more where you have to choose 1 thing and specialize in it. I understand how annoying it is for people, but I don't care. It's annoying IRL finding people to do specific things, yet we still do it anyways. Might as well be apart of the game, too. I don't think we needed 5 ranks, I honestly think 3 would have sufficed and in order to get to rank 3 you have to undergo rigorous training or something or very high level of commitment/points in. I also think for professions it will be cooler, going forward, to have 2 specializations. You cannot put points in outside of these specializations, but you get 2. Again, it will be annoying to find people specializing in these, however, the cool factor outweighs it by far. I also loved profession gear playing a huge part towards the regular playerbase. Like I love that you can craft 486 ilvl gear in season 3 when mythic raiding goes to like 489. That's seriously awesome and closes the gap so much, in terms of gear/power. The rest just becomes a skill issue.Idk why inspiration was called inspiration, it should have just stayed crit or something because that's basically what it is. Maybe next expansion they could add us being able to add in tertiary stats into crafted gear.
Talent tree cooks: I do like how max said with mine. Like, I swap 1-2 talents from the regular build, though I will actually raidbots it to see what the difference is between the build I want to play and the most optimal build. I do not mind losing up to 10-15% damage in exchange for having my own fun, however, if it's more than 15% difference then I will not play my own. 5% damage isn't actually huge unless you're looking at Mythic/CE raiding, but for AotC and Normal it's entirely fine and not a big deal at all. 15% isn't too big of a difference, either, when it comes to AotC or even up to +20s I only usually do up to +18s realistically speaking, but yeah. Like, I play Affliction Warlock as one of my main DPS and I will run Absolute Corruption over SL on even pure ST. I just love the thought of having a permanent DoT, and less things to manage. The difference between Siphon Life and Absolute Corruption is 6% alone on ST so I will run with that. Back in SL I ran with Grimiore of Sacrifice as a Necrolord and even found out that it was bugged with it's APL on raidbots. It actually was saying GoSac is behind 30-35% with my specific talent setup with Necrolord selected and I brought it up to both Warlock Discord and to the raidbots people, themselves, and found out from Lock discord that the raidbots APL people had it wrong and hadn't updated their APL and when they swapped it was only about 12% loss over 30-35% it was saying.
In defense of new crafting system my guild used it a lot as a way to recruit people. Our GM has most of profs and recipes and her alts and she sometimes recruit her regular clients for the guild. Oh, and also I do world quests sometimes for gold.
Yea, the crafting system was great for people who had established guilds and communities. I spent DF as the official crafter for a guild, They go get CE wearing a bunch of stuff I made, I get gold and lots of friends, it's great. But for the true "solo player" it's probably a lot more challenging.
When it comes to the professions, they half assed it, as soon as the new system was released they did not do anything with it and there is no catch up with profession knowledge new players are heavily time gated.
PoddyC is legit fire
@51:26 that is literally what I was afraid when they decided to "rework" holy paladin to accommodate the "caster build". Bunch of old heads stuck in the past wanted to play holy paladin like they played it in Wotlk (basically holy priest with plate armor) and were crying about it while the current holy pally enjoyers were decently happy with the gameplay loop. Now, it's been reworked to allow those "caster builds" the people that cried about it to have it either play it as an alt or don't play it at all because it still fundamentally different from what they wanted and the actual pally community lost the spec identity by having to play a clunky all over the place, bloated, spec.
Holy points on a melee healer is an interesting take and change to the healer archetype and we are losing it over trying to have pally play as fucking holy priest.
Spenders are shit, the only generator that feels good is Holy shock and while i like the current iteration of holy shock its just absurd that you use that over everything every time regardless of situation, holy point cap wtv...
Bring back holy paladin from before the rework and we're set. let us play in dungeon with virtue and be gods of splash healing during those virtue periods and let us have some skill expression. daybreak is a fun cd tho, everything else is utter garbage (tyrs deliverance is strong but its just another "wild growth" or "stop for 1.2 seconds to cast a bunch of hots).
I used to look at paladin and if I had to stop to cast spells it felt bad, now its ingrained.
Min maxing Dusk and Dawn was kinda hard to do but its infinitely more fun however i kinda understand its rework and functions a bit better.
I like fire mages' keystone we have alot of choice if sun kungs blessing. :). overall good tree
For talent trees for sure. On all my alts I just go into wowhead and pick the build it tells me to play. I decide off that if I want to play that class/spec and do a bit more research for why this build is so good. It is too hard to keep up with all the changes. I think changes are good and make the game better for sure, but I don't have time to learn them natty. With how meta gaming is literally part of every game now, the research is done for me so I don't have to really think about my choices.
A failure of the new crafting system is that raw materials are worth basically 0g right now.
About professions this expansion gotta make the daily profession knowledge account wide. I’m fine with the treasures being not account wide but the weekly knowledge not being is the worse when u wanna do the profession again on alt/ different realm
If only one crafter had a legendary craft they would be able to run the market and if you thought prices for crafts were too high in shadowlands or right now they would be exponentially higher if one person could control it. As far as the talent trees i bet a lot of solo player hit the automatic standard build make a few adjustments for some stuff they may like and run with it.
The fact I cannot guarantee a 5 star with maxed everything makes the professions feel real bad.
For the talent trees, it would feel great if every choice was balanced. While leveling, I picked what seemed fun/cool for what I was doing. Once getting ready to raid I started looking up guides and swimming, and it's shocking how poorly balanced many talents are making them not realistic choices. If they want the trees to be actual choices, they have to be very closely balanced. For single vs multi target, the optimal for me would be multiple talents that let you choose single vs multi target at a percent a piece so that you can choose how much single target you want to lose and how much multi you want to add
I don't know how to do it, but it would be great to get guests that kind of represent different perspectives about the game and compare and contrast your experiences with theirs. Maybe get an AOTC casual player, a PvPer, etc.
I think if world quests rewarded old cosmetics from prev raids of the exp would be great. Itd be great for those who wanted the tmogs but couldnt play the game instead of hoping to set up a raid for old content. Im sure some people would wanna get the priest mogs.