I find this very helpful. Im an Aspie who have empathy and once befriended and dated a woman who exhibited toxic traits...I believe she displayed narcissistic behavior, and since she knew I have Aspergers, she used this against me by convincing others that I'm a narcissist. From doing research, I discovered my autistic traits can be mistakenly perceived as narcissism. Listening to this vid segment was enlightening.
Also, many of us who find ourselves in relationships with either one, have old childhood trauma. I.e. we learned that these feelings were normal, as opposed to red flags. Motivations matter, to be sure. But like you say, they don't change the impacts.
Your comment is very insightful thank you. I know I make people nervous unintentionally, and have been called a narc before. I’m usually honest with myself so when someone calls me a narcissist it usually hurts and I go as deep as I can trying to prove/disprove if I am that
Saying someone is a narcissist isn't the same thing as diagnosing someone with NPD. There's nothing wrong with using the terms to describe someone. Dr Ramani discusses this, too, because we should be able to use the terms to describe a person because they have those behaviors. Narcissists do not like the word "No." They absolutely don't care about others but can pretend to care.
I highly respect Dr. Ramani and value what she adds to our knowledge about narcissism. She admits though that she is not a specialist in autism but that the interplay of autism and narcissism are important to her because she has autism in her family. My opinion is that a “narcissist” meets criteria for NPD. When this term is used but is NOT referencing NPD it minimizes the truth and reality of the term. Autistic (and non autistics) can have toxic and dysfunctional behaviors. Some of these behaviors are also common in narcissists/NPD. But to call a toxic behavior or person “narcissistic” is like calling a teenage boy who crosses a boundary and kisses his buddy’s girlfriend a sexual predator. It’s inappropriate. It’s hurtful. It’s a very unwise choice. It’s going to damage a relationship or a few. He is likely to make even more mistakes and maybe even act out behaviorally - lol of which needs to be addressed. BUT he’s not a predator unless this becomes a pattern of behavior over time that is intentional with little or no remorse or regard to the harm done.
Thank you for your comment, and you're welcome! Narcissism is a popular term these days, and so is "autistic." It is important to educate people about what these really are as opposed to the pop culture descriptions!
I also suspect it actually is a gradient and sometimes it is described as a trait but when it gets maladaptive, it is a personality disorder which is usually what people mean by the adjective. Also it is environmentally caused in early childhood (disclaimer: one day old deep dive, accuracy may vary)
I appreciate the very honest disclaimer. :) My deep dive has been more like 20 years! We're still trying to understand the root causes of personality disorders, but so far the evidence supports a combination of genetics and early childhood dynamics. Also, I wouldn't describe narcissism as a gradient - this is a mindset that is misleading as in "everybody is a little narcissistic." This is not true. Everyone IS a little dysfunctional - we have behaviors that are hurtful to ourselves and others. A narcissist, though, has a cluster of features that are not present in everyone - the most notable is a willingness and motivation to use/manipulate others (with zero regard for their wellbeing) for self-serving reasons.
@@tanyadeanne164that’s quite alarming as I’ve met only one person my entire life that exhibited narcissistic traits. Of course he wasn’t diagnosed or anything because he was perfect and all but yeah most people I’ve met seemed well intentioned.
I have experiences with many people with Autism and many people with NPD and I much much much much prefer people with Autism, though to the person who doesn’t know much about these disorders some of their behaviour and traits may look the same but to me they are vastly different . I would never again be friends with , be a romantic partner of keep contact with a narcissist family member again but I absolutely would with a person with Autism .
Do you see many female aspies? Before my diagnosis my husband and I used to talk about how it seemed like I had narcissistic traits because I was "self focused" But we knew that couldn't be correct. I cared about doing the right thing for other people even when no one was looking, I have done things that are detrimental to myself even for the benefit of others, I Have so much empathy for others that I can take on the negativity of someone else as my own then turn on a dime when they start acting more positive... But I can't express it empathy that I am feeling. It is all internalized and in my head we're no one can see it. On the outside my face is blank. Anyway I know your experience and the experience of a lot of the couples you work with seem to be the male is that aspie, and that has been your own experience as well. I know you have a daughter on the spectrum, so you do have experience with both.
Hi Jennifer, I'm glad you asked. I have actually worked with a large number of autistic females ranging in age from teenagers to grandparents. I assess women (in addition to men) regularly, and am familiar with the different kinds of traits that show up in autistic women than men. In many of my videos (like this one) I'm speaking to the most likely viewer (or sometimes the video was originally made for a specific live audience, such as a group of neurotypical women). Men aren't as likely to be wondering if their female partner is autistic versus narcissistic, so in this video, I primarily speak to neurotypical women about their male partners. Your personal difficulties with being self-focused yet also empathic to the point of taking on the energy of others are definitely an autistic traits I've seen in both men and women, but more so in women. The self-focus is usually a combination of executive functioning demands on your brain, like sensory overwhelm, introversion, and social overwhelm. It sounds like are experiencing a very common autistic difficulty with sharing your emotions (you feel them, but your body doesn't convey what you're feeling). So, the people around you probably experience you as having fewer emotions than you're actually having.
@Jennifer Nelson My husband also thought of me as sort of a sociopath for years, until I came across researching Aspie… then it all sort of clicked. I did study into it profusely, but never sought a Dx, as I don’t really see the point or benefit to paying $ for the title. How has that journey been for you though? ♥️🙏🏽
@@jaquirox6579 Would you mind sharing some of your research information with me ??? Mine is actually for my husband... I just stumbled across a video by Dr. Ramani called Neglectful Narcissists 101 it's a 3 part series! Each video is less than 15 mins. I originally thought my husband was a narcissist, then ASD, but neither really fully fit him till I saw those videos! Now I don't know but he might not have ASD at all... but they look so close, except that apparently most ASD people have empathy & narcissists don't... I also recently started to think sociopath as well... I am digging & so far I just still FeeL SO confused 😕... As a young child he was diagnosed with; Auditory Processing Disorder+ ADHD/ADD So I now wonder if back then they had no clue & misdiagnosed or if they are right! Just trying to find out how to connect with him & understand him IF possible!?! His mother also sadly crippled him by doing everything for him... So I just wonder if it just looks like ASD because of ALLLL the combinations going on or is it! P.s. Neglectful Narcissism LooKs WAY different than the others AND from the video's information, they ONLY treat their spouse/partner with the majority of their behavior & others don't see it... Sorry, bla bla bla...
@@Mor2gain_760 I would say Ramani is definitely my number 1 source for the narc info, hands down. And Paul is my number 1 for Aspie info. So between these two you should be able to sort something out. ♥️🙏🏽
Doesn't the DSM-5 now consider asperger's as the same thing as autism? My boss has traits where he isn't comfortable looking at people in the eye, he has social anxiety, and he doesn't know how to talk to people. He often comes across as rude and detached. He is blunt and to the point, and doesn't speak with any sort of emotion or feeling. He also gets his facts mixed up half the time. There have been a lot of phone calls to HR about the way he treats people. Whenever he told me I got a complaint at work, it turns out that it wasn't actually a complaint at all. He misunderstood what was being said. For instance there were a couple of times a higher up called him and asked for cleaning supplies. He assumed that the reason they called him was because I wasn't doing my job. (I'm the janitor.) This had nothing to do with me at all. But he didn't understand that. I definately think he's on the spectrum. HOWEVER... he is also known to lie and be manipulative. He takes about people behind their back and seems to thrive on the negativity. Sometimes he seems to stir up trouble just for the sake of stirring up trouble. One time he borrowed our company van and when he returned it, the vavuum was gone. That was my vacuum for my department. He denied knowing what happened to it, but someone told me they saw him take it out of the van. I had to ask him several times to get me a new vacuum. At first he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. Then he very kindly told me that he would order a new one if it didn't turn up. But he never did and totally changed his attitude about it to, "What am I supposed to tell them, that we lost the other one?" Is this manipulation or is his brain just weird? When people chew him out for being nice to their face and talking behind their back, he just shuts down. I mean, if you're badmouthing people, you KNOW it. He also likes to form cliques and leave other people out. He always has someone to badmouth. But he really doesn't seem to understand that half the time he isn't being nice to people. He doesn't understand the importance of eye contact. He'll walk right by you and ignore you. If you try to talk to him, he gets really nervous and looks away and starts fiddling with stuff. Is it possible that he's an aspie who's a JERK? Or as aspie WITH narcissistic traits? It's very hard to tell what is going on with him.
Hi there. Yes it is possible for someone to be BOTH neurodivergent and have toxic personalities. These are two different categories that can often seem similar. The key difference between autistic behaviors that are socially inappropriate (and sometimes hurtful) and toxic behaviors is intent. What you described about your boss involves intent to do harm. Stirring up gossip and badmouthing others is a manipulative behavior to control what people think and to cause harm. Some of the other behaviors you described can be autistic traits (eye contact and being socially unaware).
Dr. Ramani did an excellent video making the distinction between NPD and autism. One important thing to remember is that autistic people tend to be very conscientious and lacking in guile, as opposed to narcissists. Trying to problem-solve and make the uncomfortable emotion go away is our love language and while we can discipline ourselves to run through a mental affective empathy checklist, it does cost us a lot of spoons.
Diagnosed over 50. Female. I wondered for years if I was a narcissist, but some things just didn't add up. Autism fit. I suspect the self-centeredness is due to living in my head and keeping myself safe and regulated. I am a very generous person when I think of others. And despite being accused of intimidating people I don't hold harming thoughts in my mind. The things I've learned in the last 3 years, everything I didn't know, I didn't know.
People who wonder if they’re narcissists aren’t like to be. The self reflection is not something they can do. In glad you found the framework of autism that makes sense for you!
I wish you hadn’t made this sound like it’s only men. It’s hurtful to hear someone say we can’t make eye contact. That isn’t true. I carefully make sure I make just the right amount of eye contact.
Hi Sarah. Thank you for your comment. Some of my videos have been for different audiences and have been in different groups (some were originally "lives" in FB groups that were women-only in relationships with men). If you listen to more of my videos, you'll hear that I am inclusive of both men and women, and work with all. I also clarify that the traits I describe are not every true of of ALL autistics because some are more prominent in some people and not at all in others. I do appreciate your feedback very much as I am always trying to improve and welcome all feedback from autistic individuals and their partners.
According to Dr. Ramani Durvasala, narcissism is a personality NOT a disorder. Saying someone is narcissistic is like saying; she’s sweet, he’s funny, she’s extroverted, he’s narcissistic etc. I’m describing a set of personality traits, not diagnosing them.
To me the type of narcissist described in the video sounds like the overt kind. Those are easier to spot. The covert narcissist, on the other hand, can be so sneaky and even label themselves as autistic in order to have another excuse for their bad behavior. It might take a while to figure them out, unfortunately. Especially if they mask as someone on the autism spectrum.
Yes absolutely! I will be releasing a blog article/video in the next couple months on this exact thing. I regularly have couples come to me for help only to recognize that autism is not the primary issue (if at all). Covert narcissists are the hardest to spot but once you know how to recognize the behaviors there are clear patterns. Unfortunately not everyone sees this everyday like I do so my goal is to help people learn to spot the patterns.
Covert narcissists are definitely harder to spot because they truly seem like a nice person who is constantly misunderstood and being victimized in some way by others. For covert narcs, though, this is a strategy to influence and manipulate for power. Autistics on the other hand are often genuinely nice people who truly ARE misunderstood by others as controlling and manipulative when the intent is more about self-preservation than a need to manipulate for an ego-boost or power.
I had a weird experience with this guy at work and realized all of the red flags later. I would look at the odd things he would do and say and it would come up as one of these or even BPD. I’m leaning into him being more of a Narcissist though. They could technically be both from what I’ve researched (co-morbid). Covert Narcissists are more quiet I.E. don’t like parties etc.
The reason behind an Aspie's behaviour may be different but the problem is that the effect is the same. My Aspie partner is a jerk 80 to 90% of the time. It is really difficult. At first I thought he is a narcissist but as time went on I realised he is autistic. Just too many traits that fits the category especially food and routine issues and wanting to try something new or go anywhere new. As a matter of fact go ANYWHERE! Problem is, it makes it very hard for me to love him. It ruined our intimate, physical relationship because he doesn't seem to have any clue to initiate it or make me feel safe and cared for in that area. Going through menopause as well and him starting ED make things even worse as I now dread being intimate and in my opinion he is hyperactive in that area. So the more he wants it the less interested I am. I'll much rather watch a movie or sleep.
Hi Hester. You’re not alone in what you’ve described and yes the impact can be devastating when in a relationship with an autistic neurodivergent who is incapable, unwilling, or unmotivated to become self aware. Neurodivergence doesn’t inherently result in a partner who has no interest in learning and growth, but there are certainly partners who just aren’t. It’s incredibly painful. I’ve lived it so I understand. Sometimes leaving the relationship is an option and sometimes it’s not so it’s important to take control of your happiness in spite of your relationship.
@@JodiCarlton I try to take control of my happiness despite the relationship. Some days are more difficult than others. We are both in our fifties and we have a great lifestyle despite us never going away together or going out together. Therefore starting over or leaving is not really an option. I thought about it long and hard. He is totally unaware of himself. He does not read news, he does not listen to music...he lives on an 'island'. The thing is, this is not what I signed up for 7 years ago. He changed or went back to who he was and crawled back into his shell. He admits it. Calls it avoidance behaviour. I give up.
Dr. Ramani Durvasala's experience in her practice is that about 1 in 6 people are narcissistic. But yes, without as much as research-and ideally with a therapist with experience with narcissists-do not lightly decide whom is, or is not, a narcissist. And if you think you're dealing with a narcissist (which I definitely have been, though I did not find that out until about a year or more ago), don't just tell them that you think so. See if they'll be willing to go to a therapist, even if its with you (which might be more expensive, I have no idea on that).
So true, added to my best of aspie video list. I worry more about thwarted narcisism covert. But after looking into it i dont have that either just asperger s with better theory of mind thg han either my parents, lot more guilt and social anxiety.
I'm glad you're getting some clarity. Make it a goal to let go of the guilt. Self-blame and self-shame is not productive and will not help you with the social anxiety (or anything, really). Identify your goals for yourself and work toward them. You are who you are and that's not your fault. I am who I am and that's not my fault. We have the brains, and bodies that we we have. No shame, no guilt in that. What we do with what we've got is where we have some control over our lives.
This is off subject but I’ve been trying to figure out what it means to miss social cues; for instance: when someone waves I gather they’re saying hello or goodbye, when someone points I gather they’re trying to direct my attention, when someone rubs their head maybe they’re stressed. Which social cues might someone (an autistic) miss?
Hi. Currently undiagnosed at 27, but have been suspected of asperger's (right before the term generally disappeared, so i guess just ASD now from my understanding in a professional sense but I actually would prefer an Asperger diagnosis instead of ASD, i see them as different). I was screened with mixed results by my school counselor at 8 (mom didn't want to "label" me in case I was simply eccentric, sorta wish she did, I'm lonely apart from my gf, who initiated our relationship, otherwise I'm alone. Maybe I could have had a better way to navigate my childhood). For reference this counselor also said the same about my gf's brother who's asperger's is very apparent, so I'm sure my screening was done poorly and my life could have been better...but I digress All 6 things are issues between me and my gf, while some of them she understands could be due to my undiagnosed asd, some of them she thinks it's malicious or manipulative but I'm just trying my best to explain (in her word's "give excuses") and the way you explained them is just perfect and I will show her this. Thank you and sorry for the info dump and run-on sentence. Believe it or not, language arts was my highest mark on my ACT, despite it being my least favorite subject. I think because in language arts there are rules to sentence structure that disappears in common speak, So when I feel like an alien speaking a different language I genuinely feel insane because people say 1 thing but mean something different than the actual definitions of what they say and I guess I do that too with anyone outside of work (the only place I can effectively mask with 99% of the people i encounter, my personal life is very different, thus my isolation/ostrocization). I'm just sleep deprived at the moment and self medicating with my cannabis vaporizer so I'm being spazzie but also really hyped I found a such a great vid and I guess I'm just happy to relate to something 100% for once. A lot of content and self doubt gives me imposter syndrome but this helps
Hi there! I’m so glad you commented! All spazzing is welcome here. 😉👍👍 my 20 yr old daughter was diagnosed as Aspergers and it took her a long time to make the switch to calling herself autistic. I’ve heard this from many others as well. Many parents like your mom fear judgment and bias against their child so not labeling you was likely out of love. However, I do recommend identifying neurodivergence in order to give it a framework for those experiencing it. The goal is to understand, not to judge. I’m glad this video gave you clarity! You and your gf might find the podcast beneficial as well. I talk with both autistic and neurotypical partners and couples about their lives. There’s a playlist here for it.
I am apparently autistic (my sibling does have plenty of societal authority on that matter) and it has to be said that I understood certain social behaviours as narcissistic and my response to my autistic (or aspie) difficulties was to mask with narcissism that was also a part of me. But to be clear I think there's such a thing as narcissistic traits versus narcissistic personality disorder and I think a lot of people need the traits to survive this world. But those traits come from the same place the personality disorder comes from like core shame etc, I suspect the core shame with the actual personality disorder must be way worse with a lot less of the ridiculous generosity must of us get in life happening for them to fix the brain early in life before it gets stunted in that way.
I have seen autistic individuals using narcissistic scripts to mask just as you have described. It can be confusing but upon closer look, this is not a true personality disorder.
@@JodiCarlton Thanks for confirming this for me. One problem with these scripts is if they become a habit the habit can leave stubborn traces that reduce quality of life because you keep trying to fix it.
I think holding grudges is a narcissist thing but aspies will be higher intuitive to stay away from someone for good if they're dangerous (like a narcissist for example)
I think an Aspie/Autistic person can hold a grudge, but that only happens with a reason. Whereas a Narcissist would hold a grudge for no reason. Narcissists would do so out of Envy and jealousy. But a person with an Autism/Aspergers will only have a grudge against someone for doing wrong to another person and/or to them personally. And overtime will let go.
My aspie grudges are legendary! They usually come about from some infraction of whatever "rules" I adopted from NT customs and/or someone has made me feel unsafe. Unfortunately because I cannot do confrontation I just go silent, for years. It's a trait in myself I do not like.
Its funny because i know someone who purposefully does the opposite of what a narc does when it comes to self portrayal: he'll deliberately dress really scruffily and unkempt, with old, scruffy clothes and unkempt hair, coming to meetings and social events like that, whereas he's not homeless and can afford to look after himself. When confronted about it he will try to portray himself as some kind of social martyr.
If this person is narcissistic, he would be a covert narcissist - someone who uses being a "victim" to get attention versus being grandiose and in the spotlight (overt/malignant narcissist).
@@JodiCarlton Interesting...he will also try to dominate discussions intellectually, to the point where it is really uncomfortable for everyone involved, raising his voice and ruining social events, always with some kind of moral high-stance that you cannot really argue with (in German we call this a ''dead-end argument''). Thank you very much for the feed-back! 🙂
Yes they can. However autistic/neurodiverse traits versus toxic personality traits (that are stemming from a personality disorder) are distinctively different in origin and intent. Also it’s possible for an autistic individual to learn toxic scripts and behaviors from a toxic parent or other influential person. These can be often be unlearned by a motivated neurodivergent whereas a toxic person won’t be motivated or capable of updating behaviors for personal development.
You can get formal assessment, but it's often hard to find a qualified provider. There are also quite a few online assessments that will give you some clarity. You can take a quiz on my website: jodicarlton.com/take-a-quiz/. Also, here's a video I did about being diagnosed: ruclips.net/video/ZVhZ5OrJDvg/видео.htmlsi=dgNowpjMJReGWDYO
Here is one: I was dating a woman who had baby twins. She requested I get off one of my meds, just in case they got into them. I promise you that never would've happened. I end up having a grand maul seizure in the middle of the night in her bedroom. She brings all my stuff to my hospital room, tells me if she forgot anything to call her first. If I show up unannounced, she would get a restraining order. All I did wrong was have a seizure, and she hated me after it. I later found out that people weren't even allowed to say my name around her. She somehow was the victim because I had the only seizure I ever had in my life. Everything I said about how she shattered me, she twisted it around as if to say, well you should've thought about that first. She keeps popping in and out of my life, first apologizing, then saying I'm a failure. As long as I live ill never understand her. She has no filter and no concept of sarcasm - concrete ve abstract Also can take zero criticism about what she has done.. One of the last things, I almost want her to be autistic lightly on the Spectrum because I'd rather accept that then her just being horrible at being a human
These behaviors do not sound like traits of autism. These are toxic and destructive behaviors more aligned with a personality disorder like narcissism or borderline personality. She may be autistic, as well, but autistic traits are not inherently toxic and destructive. A person can be both autistic and have a personality disorder.
@JodiCarlton Thank you. I left out one thing. She has twins. After me, she would live with a man for three years or so, then move on to another. Her son's father turned his back on their kids. Every time the son started to bond with any of these men, the relationship would end. The boy is now maybe 20 and is full of rage, and she has no clue where it's coming from. When a child says he wishes his mom never met his father, even when it means he wouldn't exist, to me, that's a red flag for maybe suicidal tendencies. It breaks my heart for the boy. She works in the tech sector in Colorado and is very very successful. She could've easily bought a home at anytime and provided her kids with a stable environthatment instead of moving them around. I wish I was exaggerating. I know this from the two times she hoovered me.
Yes, it does sound like there are personality issues here - certainly emotional unavailability if not something more toxic. My heart goes out to her son, as well. I hope he finds some stability in his life.
@JodiCarlton it didn't end there. I'm guessing three maybe four times since that, she has reached out to me. The first one was when she was at the end of a relationship. Her confidence was shattered. The job she had wasn't paying her enough to survive on in Denver. I helped her with her resume, and we practiced questions she'd asked in interviews. We talked every night. Eventually, she ends up doing a re enactment if how she told me she loved me for the first time. I was falling. However. My friends stepped in and reminded me of the massive mental anguish I went through after the hospital room incident. A loyalty test was set up to see if she would flake again. I told her I was having some issues associated with the seizure and some depression and I needed time to work through them. She got the job, by the way. Told her to please just wait for me and to focus on her new job. I had to find out. When she said I was just jealous because she got her job, that wasn't a good sign. I pulled for her to hold on like I would for Alabama playing a game. Finally, I made the call, the person that answered it soinded just liike the one that walked into that hospital room. Turns out she had been dating and hooking up the whole time. Asked her why she couldn't wait. Her answer was, what if I dissappear again. Should of told her right then about the test. She then hinted at that I was more of a rebound thing. A lot of people would be upset by that but shrug it off. Our situation wasn't normal. I poured my heart out to her when she first called about the anguish because of her calling me a freak and flipping the script, making her somehow the victim in all of this. Just backed off, and the same issues came back to the surface. The second time, she called was to inform me that she was going to unfriendl me on FB because she moved in with a guy. Fair enough. I asked her before that could she maybe look at my resume and do some interview questions. Her response was for me to figure it out for yourself. She was blocked for five years Two years ago, I decided to unblock her, thinking she wouldn't be stupid enough to reach out to me. She was. If it weren't for two friends of mine finding each other after 20 years and getting married, would've told her to bounce. Instead I thought maybe some light was shining on me. She told me that her soon to be ex is am alcoholic and that she wanted to move back to Florida because I was there. The list of all the good things she remember about me, how good the sex was, it went on and on. I was taking care of my mom, who has Alzheimer's. My dad is 90 now and wasn't up for the task. This was right after COVID. Before that I was starting to get my sales career up and running. Life happens. She didn't want to talk to me on the phone. Her reason was, she wasnt sure if out attraction was just physical and nothing more. I said she knew it was more, and she knows if we talk, she would realize it. Her kids just graduated high school and she was going to bring them down where I live. The last time I saw them they were babies. This is when she started to back off a bit. I invited her and the kids to coffee. They came down but never contacted me. After that she tried to ghost me. I called her out and her response was about me not meeting my potential (doing uber eats to pay bills while I look after my mom) and essentially I was a loser. Also, she said in a year, she would probably meet someone else and i wasn't worth the grief. I was minding my own business. She contacted me, again and told these beautiful lies, such as we never had a chance as a couple and that it ended to soon... it went from that to I'm not making enough money. Against she said before it didn't matter how much I made, she just wanted someone to love her and be honest. She has enough money, so that's not an issue. Sorry it's so long, but just wanted to illustrate what this woman has put me through for over 20 years. The hope I have is that since her mom was mentally ill, addicted to plastic surgery and an alcoholic, maybe the apple didn't fall from the tree, especially since her breast augmentation was over the top. She's a woman that would've laughed at that years ago. Mental Illness I'm my eyes would be better than thinking she sucks at being a human being. Since she always says after after she reaches out to me is because I popped into her head, I'm going to write an email, with screen shots of all the thing she said and ask why. I know, what's the point, but I need closure. Telling her to take time and really think her answer. I'm sorry about how long this is but the Crux of it is I've been suffering from depression since the breakdown I had in 2000 so her coming in my life made the depression even worse
Hi Maxwell. Truthfully my advice is the same for gay men as it is for heterosexual couples. Autism does not discriminate based on sexual orientation. The foundation for neurodiverse relationships is learning to communicate. You speak language differently even though you use the same words. If one of you is not autistic and the other is, it's likely that one of you doesn't speak emotion as fluently as the other. Both of you are 100 legitimately valid in the languages that you DO speak, and it is imperative that you each NOT try to make the other be more like yourself. Learn how to translate one another's language as best possible. CracktheCommunicationCode.com
Can a person be an aspie with narcissistic traits?? Because this sounds like a mix match version of my ex. I am also an aspie and am aware aspies can self depreciate and if we don't make the realization we're autistic early in life. Before I found out I was autistic I used to villain-ize myself when I was in my teens because my family and school peers made me feel like I was automatically sub human and inferior by default.
Yes, Asperger's and narcissism can share similar traits... Some features of narcissism include lack of empathy, lack of self-awareness, and disregard for the perspective of others. Because some individuals with autism can also struggle with similar traits, they are often mistaken as narcissists. However, the malice and callous disregard for the well-being of others that is inherent to narcissism is not a feature of autism. It's also true, though, that people can be both autistic and narcissistic - these are separate and distinct. I actually created a full webinar with a quiz to help people determine if their partners are autistic or narcissistic (or both) - you might it helpful! Here's the link: www.tryinteract.com/share/quiz/5e04df9cb2378a0014eb88d9
Thanks for the clarification. Autism (being an aspie) involves a lot more than emotional fluency (some Aspies are actually VERY emotionally mature - for example my own Aspie daughter is 21 and is worlds ahead of most or her peers in emotional maturity). Some people who are NOT Aspies are emotionally immature and never quite develop their emotional IQ. To determine if someone is possibly an Aspie, you want to look at other signs like sensory thresholds that are really high or really low (sound, smell, touch sensitivities or the opposite like not have much sense of smell, being super touchy feely, enjoying activities that are high sensation like roller coasters, lots of fidgeting or physical stims like nail biting, knee-bouncing, mouth sounds). Autistic individuals also miss social cues like knowing when or how to start a conversation or when people are losing interest. Also look for special interests that seem more than just hobbies - like super hobbies with high levels of interest and knowledge - these may change over time. Hope that helps!!
Yes. Here’s a video about that. ruclips.net/video/bTCFLtkkUWA/видео.htmlsi=2oyn_xzvcPA135TX I also have a course and an assessment to help figure this out. jodicarlton.com/courses/neurodivergent-or-narcissist-or-could-it-be-both/
my son is aspergers. and my ex husband. my what I dont understand is why they are lying all the time? they lie to people at work/school...they also dont respect authorities and rules. is that a typical behaviour?
Really... Right out of the blocks... Huge assumptions here... "Hello Ladies..." Then the autistic one is "him." Time to wake up! Women have autism... AND... are very good at masking. I would argue that high masking autistic women can look a lot like covert narcism. It is 2023, time to include men as NT, and women as autistic. You do no favours with this gynocentric presentation.
As is stated in the description, this was recorded when I was speaking specifically to a group of NT women married to ND men. I talk regularly on this channel in other videos about my young adult autistic daughter and neurodivergent best friend, mother, and grandmother. All women, three of whom have been guests on my podcast. Episode 1 of Season 3 is with a yet another female ND guest and the topic is masking. You can find it in the Podcast playlist. 👍👍
Hi Nadhia. Yes some people are more comfortable with eye contact than others. It really depends on the individual and how the brain processes visual stimuli - for some it’s overwhelming, and distracting but for others it helps with communication.
Yes, this happens quite frequently! I have a course and a quiz to help partners identify the differences in traits and behaviors - the ones that are neurodivergent versus the ones that are toxic/abusive. jodicarlton.com
Great video, but I’d like to point out you seem to think your audience is mostly female, and I don’t mind being called a lady 😂 but I also just want to maintain the idea that narcissism isn’t strictly tied to men, it’s just easier to spot. From my experience with narcissistic women, it’s much more malignant and manipulative than male narcissists and are less likely to be found out due to the social aspect of women being put under the microscope less so than men in this specific field.
Hello. This video was addressing a group of 100% women married to men. Please see the description. 😃 To your point, narcissism, and other toxic personality traits are not at all limited to men. I would disagree, however, that women are put under a microscope less than men in this field - did you know that mothers were considered the cause of schizophrenia at one point? Women have historically been diagnosed with more mental illness than men, and still are. Regarding narcissism, specifically, men have been more likely to be identified as narcissists and women as borderline personalities (both toxic), but in recent years we are learning more about overt and covert narcissism, and the narc abuse cycle. As we discover more, we also recognize more narcissistic traits in women. Is this because they've been there all along or does this coincide with women taking on more masculine roles, responsibilities, and personas? It's something to explore. Thanks for the opportunity to share more about this topic.
Youre wrong narcs /sociopaths DO NOT always take pride in their appearance in fact it can be the complete Opposite . So i don't think that should be on this list
No group has all traits all the time, and a narcissist or sociopath may not care about appearances. However, managing image is a core trait of narcissism so it is common to be attentive to appearance. A sociopath doesn’t always care how others feel and may not be as concerned about appearance - this may be seen in an autistic narcissist (which results in sociopathy).
@@Love_Mel thanks for asking these clarifying questions! I am happy to explain. An autistic narcissist is someone who is both autistic and narcissistic - some professionals don't believe this is possible, but I have seen it quite a bit in my career. Autism is neurodevelopmental and narcissism is a personality development disorder that is understood to be influenced by genetics, and environmental factors such as excessive praise/permissiveness or abuse. Autism and narcissism are two separate things and can co-exist based on my experience. Sociopathy (and psychopathy) is not a "diagnosis," but is a description sometimes used to describe antisocial patterns of behaviors and traits that are often seen secondary to diagnoses like narcissism, antisocial personality, borderline personality - these three personality disorders are clustered together (diagnostically) and commonly include overlapping traits with the traits of one being more predominant.
Hello, and I'm glad you asked so I can clarify. This particular video was made in a group consisting of members who are women. Many of them were trying to determine the difference in neurodivergent traits or narcissistic traits in their male partners/spouses.Women can also be narcissistic, and interestingly, we're seeing more and more of this in women. The cluster of personality disorders that include these toxic traits and behaviors includes narcissistic, borderline, histrionic, and antisocial. All of these have overlapping traits and characteristics, but historically the data has shown that narcissism and antisocial personalities included more men than women. Borderline and histrionic included more women than men. Thanks again for the opportunity to clarify!
There are so many misconceptions about autism in this video. It’s nothing short of offensive. You generalize so much. I’m autistic and I do care about my appearance. Why? Well, I’ve been criticised about my appearance all my life - hair, facial hair, clothing choices, being too fat or too skinny - and I’m finally aware that I have the right to dress in clothes that I like and have my hair how I like it. So this is one part of my embracing my authenticity. Also, we do have empathy - sometimes to a devastating extent. We express it differently and in an equally valid way. Also, why are you still using the term “Asperger’s syndrome”? Asperger was a Nâżì.
Also: why do you police your partner’s wardrobe? Don’t you think that he might actually feel comfortable in some of the clothes that you think “have to go”? What about his autonomy?
Hi Stew. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with being autistic. Every person is unique and valid in their own characteristics and traits. There are some traits that are more common than not in autism and the purpose of this video was not to thoroughly describe autism - it was to differentiate the toxic traits of narcissism from autism. Regarding attire, I believe everyone can dress however is comfortable for them, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be social judgement in public. It’s just reality. Regarding the term “Aspergers,” many people still self-identify as having Aspergers and it is still a clinical diagnosis in many countries that don't use the DSM 5 criteria. Despite Hans Asperger's political affiliation, historically, he's still the one who identified these differences in children.
This isn't accurate. You are describing a grandiose narcissist. Vulberable or covert narcissist don't always care about their appearance and aren't the life of the party.
Hi Sara. Thanks for your comment! Yes that’s exactly true. Covert narcissism is often harder to spot as well. This video is highlighting characteristics of the more malignant overt narcs. I cover all types of narcs in my various videos but particularly in a free 45 minute webinar with a quiz that will help people determine what type of relationship they’re in. If you think it would be helpful to you here’s the link: jodicarlton.com/autism-versus-narcissism
Eh, not quite, they do care about their appearance to an extent, or seeming gentrified and "proper" rather than flamboyant and sensual. The polarity of their grandiosity doesn't define their behavior nearly as much as their subtype, a somatic vulnerable narcissist is going to behave in a similar fashion to it's grandiose counterpart just in a more attenuated pattern, but a malignant vulnerable celeberal narcissist (the true covert, the absolute worst for your mental health) is going to be significantly more difficult to spot, yet still they'll operate from the same script just inverted. The type of grandiosity just changes the type of supply they seek and the toolset they can/will use to get it. Narcissists flip flop between each state continuously to like a light switch if you pay close attention, the part that really fucks with people's heads about vulnerable narcissists is how quickly and how often they flip, and when it does happen they essentially switch to a secondary false self which is part of the reason they gaslight so much, because they also gaslight themselves at the same time.
Hi Laura. Thank you for your comment - this is a commonly misunderstood perception. It is not true that all autistic individuals do not experience empathy. Actually many experience a considerable amount of empathy that is overwhelming (particularly female autistics, but males too). A key difference is in how empathy is expressed and communicated. Neurotypicals determine that empathy is not experienced if it is not conveyed in a way that we (I am an NT) receive it. Although this DOES mean that a communication gap exists, it does NOT mean that the empathy is not present. Individuals who do not experience empathy are more likely experiencing alexithymia (which is decreased awareness of internal emotional awareness in one's self, and the corresponding physiological sensation that accompanies emotion). This prevents an individual from being aware of their own emotions, which in turn prevents them from being aware of another person's emotion. Research tells us that about 50% of individuals with autism experience alexithymia (which means 50% do not). Alexithymia is also present in neurotypicals as well. Again, narcissistic behaviors, though are intentional behaviors that are for the purpose of controlling others for power NOT for the purpose of being in control of one's own world - there is a huge difference, so it's really important not to classify autistic behaviors as narcissistic. Just as NT codependent behaviors in an ND relationship of passive aggression, kitchen sinking, criticism, flooding, etc. are also controlling and manipulative, and can be emotionally harmful to neurodiverse partners - but these are not "narcissistic," either.
@@JodiCarlton I appreciate your conversation. I’m sure that all people with autism are not the same. I understand that. I really shouldn’t be grouping them all together no more than I should group all people without autism together. However, it has been my vast experience with my partner and with The partners of the women in my support group with husbands who have autism that there is a lack of empathy. It’s not an expressed empathy. It’s empathy that is not felt. I really should only speak for my partner. He has even admitted that he lacks empathy. He’s very narcissistic and he knows it. I can’t even begin to imagine how to move him past that. After all, autism is a developmental disability. I would put him at the emotional developmental age of about three.
@@laurabeigh283 Yikes…. And what emotional development age is it where you insult your husband publicly calling him akin to a 3 year old? It sounds like you two have quite a bit of strife between you. Maybe it’s less about him being Aspie, and more about the strife. You could try addressing the issues and strife first off, and see if you perceive his Aspie differently, after you both have healed from the emotional injuries you have caused each other. Just an idea. Good-luck!
@@jaquirox6579 Interesting that you are triggered. You must resonate with having a delayed emotional development. It’s not an insult, it’s a fact. Autism is a developmental disability. I understand that it is a spectrum and not everyone on the spectrum has the developmental age of a three-year-old, but the one I know does.
@@laurabeigh283 I just thought it was quite rude… and if my spouse talked that way publicly about me I would question their loyalty. There’s just some things that are more appropriate being only said in private. But that’s my personal opinion based off of not wanting to hurt my spouse. I definitely don’t have a “developmental disability”, but regardless of what anyone has, there’s something cruel about using your words in this way. All humans have strong points and weak points, including you. And there’s no need to put anyone down for what they particularly have. And as a non medical professional, you may also be factually incorrect about how you are Dxing your husband. I’m realizing now that I shouldn’t have said anything here. If you want to be disrespectful towards your husband, in public, then you’re going to no matter what anyone tries to say to you. But in the Aspie community, don’t be surprised if you keep getting people rebuking your poor behavior, because you probably will.
I find this very helpful. Im an Aspie who have empathy and once befriended and dated a woman who exhibited toxic traits...I believe she displayed narcissistic behavior, and since she knew I have Aspergers, she used this against me by convincing others that I'm a narcissist. From doing research, I discovered my autistic traits can be mistakenly perceived as narcissism. Listening to this vid segment was enlightening.
I’m glad this was helpful to you!
Dated an Aspie after dating a narcissist. The difference is the intention, but the result and how it makes you feel is unfortunately the same.
Completely agree.
Exhausted, depleted, mental & physical health trashed.
Takes a while to heal & replenish 🌹
Usually it's the narcissists finding Aspies and doing it to them. It's a very confusing and damaging relationship for sure.
Also, many of us who find ourselves in relationships with either one, have old childhood trauma. I.e. we learned that these feelings were normal, as opposed to red flags.
Motivations matter, to be sure. But like you say, they don't change the impacts.
Your comment is very insightful thank you. I know I make people nervous unintentionally, and have been called a narc before. I’m usually honest with myself so when someone calls me a narcissist it usually hurts and I go as deep as I can trying to prove/disprove if I am that
Saying someone is a narcissist isn't the same thing as diagnosing someone with NPD.
There's nothing wrong with using the terms to describe someone. Dr Ramani discusses this, too, because we should be able to use the terms to describe a person because they have those behaviors.
Narcissists do not like the word "No."
They absolutely don't care about others but can pretend to care.
I highly respect Dr. Ramani and value what she adds to our knowledge about narcissism. She admits though that she is not a specialist in autism but that the interplay of autism and narcissism are important to her because she has autism in her family. My opinion is that a “narcissist” meets criteria for NPD. When this term is used but is NOT referencing NPD it minimizes the truth and reality of the term.
Autistic (and non autistics) can have toxic and dysfunctional behaviors. Some of these behaviors are also common in narcissists/NPD. But to call a toxic behavior or person “narcissistic” is like calling a teenage boy who crosses a boundary and kisses his buddy’s girlfriend a sexual predator. It’s inappropriate. It’s hurtful. It’s a very unwise choice. It’s going to damage a relationship or a few. He is likely to make even more mistakes and maybe even act out behaviorally - lol of which needs to be addressed. BUT he’s not a predator unless this becomes a pattern of behavior over time that is intentional with little or no remorse or regard to the harm done.
Thank you for clarifying that the term narcissist gets thrown around a lot. Everyone that takes a Facebook quiz has a narcissistic ex.
Thank you for your comment, and you're welcome! Narcissism is a popular term these days, and so is "autistic." It is important to educate people about what these really are as opposed to the pop culture descriptions!
I also suspect it actually is a gradient and sometimes it is described as a trait but when it gets maladaptive, it is a personality disorder which is usually what people mean by the adjective. Also it is environmentally caused in early childhood (disclaimer: one day old deep dive, accuracy may vary)
I appreciate the very honest disclaimer. :) My deep dive has been more like 20 years! We're still trying to understand the root causes of personality disorders, but so far the evidence supports a combination of genetics and early childhood dynamics. Also, I wouldn't describe narcissism as a gradient - this is a mindset that is misleading as in "everybody is a little narcissistic." This is not true. Everyone IS a little dysfunctional - we have behaviors that are hurtful to ourselves and others. A narcissist, though, has a cluster of features that are not present in everyone - the most notable is a willingness and motivation to use/manipulate others (with zero regard for their wellbeing) for self-serving reasons.
@CajunCraft24: Do you realize that 1 in 6 people are narcissists? That's fairly high.
@@tanyadeanne164that’s quite alarming as I’ve met only one person my entire life that exhibited narcissistic traits. Of course he wasn’t diagnosed or anything because he was perfect and all but yeah most people I’ve met seemed well intentioned.
I have experiences with many people with Autism and many people with NPD and I much much much much prefer people with Autism, though to the person who doesn’t know much about these disorders some of their behaviour and traits may look the same but to me they are vastly different . I would never again be friends with , be a romantic partner of keep contact with a narcissist family member again but I absolutely would with a person with Autism .
Narcissism it a big buzzword recently that people are tossing around recklessly. It's very different from ASD.
Agreed! It’s my goal to educate people about the difference.
Do you see many female aspies? Before my diagnosis my husband and I used to talk about how it seemed like I had narcissistic traits because I was "self focused" But we knew that couldn't be correct. I cared about doing the right thing for other people even when no one was looking, I have done things that are detrimental to myself even for the benefit of others, I Have so much empathy for others that I can take on the negativity of someone else as my own then turn on a dime when they start acting more positive... But I can't express it empathy that I am feeling. It is all internalized and in my head we're no one can see it. On the outside my face is blank. Anyway I know your experience and the experience of a lot of the couples you work with seem to be the male is that aspie, and that has been your own experience as well. I know you have a daughter on the spectrum, so you do have experience with both.
Hi Jennifer, I'm glad you asked. I have actually worked with a large number of autistic females ranging in age from teenagers to grandparents. I assess women (in addition to men) regularly, and am familiar with the different kinds of traits that show up in autistic women than men. In many of my videos (like this one) I'm speaking to the most likely viewer (or sometimes the video was originally made for a specific live audience, such as a group of neurotypical women). Men aren't as likely to be wondering if their female partner is autistic versus narcissistic, so in this video, I primarily speak to neurotypical women about their male partners.
Your personal difficulties with being self-focused yet also empathic to the point of taking on the energy of others are definitely an autistic traits I've seen in both men and women, but more so in women. The self-focus is usually a combination of executive functioning demands on your brain, like sensory overwhelm, introversion, and social overwhelm. It sounds like are experiencing a very common autistic difficulty with sharing your emotions (you feel them, but your body doesn't convey what you're feeling). So, the people around you probably experience you as having fewer emotions than you're actually having.
@@JodiCarlton What does that mean, to “take on the energy of others”?? 🙋🏼♀️ Aspie here
@Jennifer Nelson My husband also thought of me as sort of a sociopath for years, until I came across researching Aspie… then it all sort of clicked. I did study into it profusely, but never sought a Dx, as I don’t really see the point or benefit to paying $ for the title. How has that journey been for you though? ♥️🙏🏽
@@jaquirox6579
Would you mind sharing some of your research information with me ??? Mine is actually for my husband...
I just stumbled across a video by Dr. Ramani called Neglectful Narcissists 101 it's a 3 part series! Each video is less than 15 mins. I originally thought my husband was a narcissist, then ASD, but neither really fully fit him till I saw those videos! Now I don't know but he might not have ASD at all... but they look so close, except that apparently most ASD people have empathy & narcissists don't... I also recently started to think sociopath as well... I am digging & so far I just still FeeL SO confused 😕...
As a young child he was diagnosed with;
Auditory Processing Disorder+
ADHD/ADD
So I now wonder if back then they had no clue & misdiagnosed or if they are right! Just trying to find out how to connect with him & understand him IF possible!?!
His mother also sadly crippled him by doing everything for him... So I just wonder if it just looks like ASD because of ALLLL the combinations going on or is it!
P.s. Neglectful Narcissism LooKs WAY different than the others AND from the video's information, they ONLY treat their spouse/partner with the majority of their behavior & others don't see it...
Sorry, bla bla bla...
@@Mor2gain_760 I would say Ramani is definitely my number 1 source for the narc info, hands down. And Paul is my number 1 for Aspie info. So between these two you should be able to sort something out. ♥️🙏🏽
Doesn't the DSM-5 now consider asperger's as the same thing as autism?
My boss has traits where he isn't comfortable looking at people in the eye, he has social anxiety, and he doesn't know how to talk to people. He often comes across as rude and detached. He is blunt and to the point, and doesn't speak with any sort of emotion or feeling. He also gets his facts mixed up half the time. There have been a lot of phone calls to HR about the way he treats people.
Whenever he told me I got a complaint at work, it turns out that it wasn't actually a complaint at all. He misunderstood what was being said. For instance there were a couple of times a higher up called him and asked for cleaning supplies. He assumed that the reason they called him was because I wasn't doing my job. (I'm the janitor.) This had nothing to do with me at all. But he didn't understand that.
I definately think he's on the spectrum.
HOWEVER... he is also known to lie and be manipulative. He takes about people behind their back and seems to thrive on the negativity. Sometimes he seems to stir up trouble just for the sake of stirring up trouble.
One time he borrowed our company van and when he returned it, the vavuum was gone. That was my vacuum for my department. He denied knowing what happened to it, but someone told me they saw him take it out of the van.
I had to ask him several times to get me a new vacuum. At first he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. Then he very kindly told me that he would order a new one if it didn't turn up. But he never did and totally changed his attitude about it to, "What am I supposed to tell them, that we lost the other one?"
Is this manipulation or is his brain just weird?
When people chew him out for being nice to their face and talking behind their back, he just shuts down.
I mean, if you're badmouthing people, you KNOW it.
He also likes to form cliques and leave other people out. He always has someone to badmouth.
But he really doesn't seem to understand that half the time he isn't being nice to people. He doesn't understand the importance of eye contact. He'll walk right by you and ignore you. If you try to talk to him, he gets really nervous and looks away and starts fiddling with stuff.
Is it possible that he's an aspie who's a JERK? Or as aspie WITH narcissistic traits?
It's very hard to tell what is going on with him.
Hi there. Yes it is possible for someone to be BOTH neurodivergent and have toxic personalities. These are two different categories that can often seem similar. The key difference between autistic behaviors that are socially inappropriate (and sometimes hurtful) and toxic behaviors is intent. What you described about your boss involves intent to do harm. Stirring up gossip and badmouthing others is a manipulative behavior to control what people think and to cause harm.
Some of the other behaviors you described can be autistic traits (eye contact and being socially unaware).
Dr. Ramani did an excellent video making the distinction between NPD and autism. One important thing to remember is that autistic people tend to be very conscientious and lacking in guile, as opposed to narcissists.
Trying to problem-solve and make the uncomfortable emotion go away is our love language and while we can discipline ourselves to run through a mental affective empathy checklist, it does cost us a lot of spoons.
Diagnosed over 50. Female. I wondered for years if I was a narcissist, but some things just didn't add up. Autism fit. I suspect the self-centeredness is due to living in my head and keeping myself safe and regulated. I am a very generous person when I think of others. And despite being accused of intimidating people I don't hold harming thoughts in my mind. The things I've learned in the last 3 years, everything I didn't know, I didn't know.
People who wonder if they’re narcissists aren’t like to be. The self reflection is not something they can do. In glad you found the framework of autism that makes sense for you!
I wish you hadn’t made this sound like it’s only men. It’s hurtful to hear someone say we can’t make eye contact. That isn’t true. I carefully make sure I make just the right amount of eye contact.
Hi Sarah. Thank you for your comment. Some of my videos have been for different audiences and have been in different groups (some were originally "lives" in FB groups that were women-only in relationships with men). If you listen to more of my videos, you'll hear that I am inclusive of both men and women, and work with all. I also clarify that the traits I describe are not every true of of ALL autistics because some are more prominent in some people and not at all in others. I do appreciate your feedback very much as I am always trying to improve and welcome all feedback from autistic individuals and their partners.
Lol, she knows two types of men
Why are you so self focused, though? No one made you think about you when viewing this material. You are taking it selfishly.
According to Dr. Ramani Durvasala, narcissism is a personality NOT a disorder. Saying someone is narcissistic is like saying; she’s sweet, he’s funny, she’s extroverted, he’s narcissistic etc. I’m describing a set of personality traits, not diagnosing them.
To me the type of narcissist described in the video sounds like the overt kind. Those are easier to spot. The covert narcissist, on the other hand, can be so sneaky and even label themselves as autistic in order to have another excuse for their bad behavior. It might take a while to figure them out, unfortunately. Especially if they mask as someone on the autism spectrum.
Yes absolutely! I will be releasing a blog article/video in the next couple months on this exact thing. I regularly have couples come to me for help only to recognize that autism is not the primary issue (if at all). Covert narcissists are the hardest to spot but once you know how to recognize the behaviors there are clear patterns. Unfortunately not everyone sees this everyday like I do so my goal is to help people learn to spot the patterns.
I think the confusion come from covert narcissists, not overt.
Covert narcissists are definitely harder to spot because they truly seem like a nice person who is constantly misunderstood and being victimized in some way by others. For covert narcs, though, this is a strategy to influence and manipulate for power. Autistics on the other hand are often genuinely nice people who truly ARE misunderstood by others as controlling and manipulative when the intent is more about self-preservation than a need to manipulate for an ego-boost or power.
I had a weird experience with this guy at work and realized all of the red flags later. I would look at the odd things he would do and say and it would come up as one of these or even BPD. I’m leaning into him being more of a Narcissist though. They could technically be both from what I’ve researched (co-morbid). Covert Narcissists are more quiet I.E. don’t like parties etc.
The reason behind an Aspie's behaviour may be different but the problem is that the effect is the same. My Aspie partner is a jerk 80 to 90% of the time. It is really difficult. At first I thought he is a narcissist but as time went on I realised he is autistic. Just too many traits that fits the category especially food and routine issues and wanting to try something new or go anywhere new. As a matter of fact go ANYWHERE! Problem is, it makes it very hard for me to love him. It ruined our intimate, physical relationship because he doesn't seem to have any clue to initiate it or make me feel safe and cared for in that area. Going through menopause as well and him starting ED make things even worse as I now dread being intimate and in my opinion he is hyperactive in that area. So the more he wants it the less interested I am. I'll much rather watch a movie or sleep.
Hi Hester. You’re not alone in what you’ve described and yes the impact can be devastating when in a relationship with an autistic neurodivergent who is incapable, unwilling, or unmotivated to become self aware. Neurodivergence doesn’t inherently result in a partner who has no interest in learning and growth, but there are certainly partners who just aren’t. It’s incredibly painful. I’ve lived it so I understand. Sometimes leaving the relationship is an option and sometimes it’s not so it’s important to take control of your happiness in spite of your relationship.
@@JodiCarlton I try to take control of my happiness despite the relationship. Some days are more difficult than others. We are both in our fifties and we have a great lifestyle despite us never going away together or going out together. Therefore starting over or leaving is not really an option. I thought about it long and hard. He is totally unaware of himself. He does not read news, he does not listen to music...he lives on an 'island'. The thing is, this is not what I signed up for 7 years ago. He changed or went back to who he was and crawled back into his shell. He admits it. Calls it avoidance behaviour. I give up.
someone can be both
I agree!
Dr. Ramani Durvasala's experience in her practice is that about 1 in 6 people are narcissistic. But yes, without as much as research-and ideally with a therapist with experience with narcissists-do not lightly decide whom is, or is not, a narcissist. And if you think you're dealing with a narcissist (which I definitely have been, though I did not find that out until about a year or more ago), don't just tell them that you think so. See if they'll be willing to go to a therapist, even if its with you (which might be more expensive, I have no idea on that).
So true, added to my best of aspie video list. I worry more about thwarted narcisism covert. But after looking into it i dont have that either just asperger s with better theory of mind thg han either my parents, lot more guilt and social anxiety.
I'm glad you're getting some clarity. Make it a goal to let go of the guilt. Self-blame and self-shame is not productive and will not help you with the social anxiety (or anything, really). Identify your goals for yourself and work toward them. You are who you are and that's not your fault. I am who I am and that's not my fault. We have the brains, and bodies that we we have. No shame, no guilt in that. What we do with what we've got is where we have some control over our lives.
This is off subject but I’ve been trying to figure out what it means to miss social cues; for instance: when someone waves I gather they’re saying hello or goodbye, when someone points I gather they’re trying to direct my attention, when someone rubs their head maybe they’re stressed. Which social cues might someone (an autistic) miss?
Hi. Currently undiagnosed at 27, but have been suspected of asperger's (right before the term generally disappeared, so i guess just ASD now from my understanding in a professional sense but I actually would prefer an Asperger diagnosis instead of ASD, i see them as different). I was screened with mixed results by my school counselor at 8 (mom didn't want to "label" me in case I was simply eccentric, sorta wish she did, I'm lonely apart from my gf, who initiated our relationship, otherwise I'm alone. Maybe I could have had a better way to navigate my childhood). For reference this counselor also said the same about my gf's brother who's asperger's is very apparent, so I'm sure my screening was done poorly and my life could have been better...but I digress
All 6 things are issues between me and my gf, while some of them she understands could be due to my undiagnosed asd, some of them she thinks it's malicious or manipulative but I'm just trying my best to explain (in her word's "give excuses") and the way you explained them is just perfect and I will show her this.
Thank you and sorry for the info dump and run-on sentence. Believe it or not, language arts was my highest mark on my ACT, despite it being my least favorite subject. I think because in language arts there are rules to sentence structure that disappears in common speak, So when I feel like an alien speaking a different language I genuinely feel insane because people say 1 thing but mean something different than the actual definitions of what they say and I guess I do that too with anyone outside of work (the only place I can effectively mask with 99% of the people i encounter, my personal life is very different, thus my isolation/ostrocization). I'm just sleep deprived at the moment and self medicating with my cannabis vaporizer so I'm being spazzie but also really hyped I found a such a great vid and I guess I'm just happy to relate to something 100% for once. A lot of content and self doubt gives me imposter syndrome but this helps
Hi there! I’m so glad you commented! All spazzing is welcome here. 😉👍👍 my 20 yr old daughter was diagnosed as Aspergers and it took her a long time to make the switch to calling herself autistic. I’ve heard this from many others as well. Many parents like your mom fear judgment and bias against their child so not labeling you was likely out of love. However, I do recommend identifying neurodivergence in order to give it a framework for those experiencing it. The goal is to understand, not to judge.
I’m glad this video gave you clarity! You and your gf might find the podcast beneficial as well. I talk with both autistic and neurotypical partners and couples about their lives. There’s a playlist here for it.
@@JodiCarlton we'll definitely be checking it out soon, thank you for your hard work!
I am apparently autistic (my sibling does have plenty of societal authority on that matter) and it has to be said that I understood certain social behaviours as narcissistic and my response to my autistic (or aspie) difficulties was to mask with narcissism that was also a part of me. But to be clear I think there's such a thing as narcissistic traits versus narcissistic personality disorder and I think a lot of people need the traits to survive this world. But those traits come from the same place the personality disorder comes from like core shame etc, I suspect the core shame with the actual personality disorder must be way worse with a lot less of the ridiculous generosity must of us get in life happening for them to fix the brain early in life before it gets stunted in that way.
I have seen autistic individuals using narcissistic scripts to mask just as you have described. It can be confusing but upon closer look, this is not a true personality disorder.
@@JodiCarlton Thanks for confirming this for me. One problem with these scripts is if they become a habit the habit can leave stubborn traces that reduce quality of life because you keep trying to fix it.
What about holding grudges?
Is that a trait of narcissist aspi or both?
I think holding grudges is a narcissist thing but aspies will be higher intuitive to stay away from someone for good if they're dangerous (like a narcissist for example)
I think an Aspie/Autistic person can hold a grudge, but that only happens with a reason. Whereas a Narcissist would hold a grudge for no reason. Narcissists would do so out of Envy and jealousy. But a person with an Autism/Aspergers will only have a grudge against someone for doing wrong to another person and/or to them personally. And overtime will let go.
My aspie grudges are legendary! They usually come about from some infraction of whatever "rules" I adopted from NT customs and/or someone has made me feel unsafe. Unfortunately because I cannot do confrontation I just go silent, for years. It's a trait in myself I do not like.
Its funny because i know someone who purposefully does the opposite of what a narc does when it comes to self portrayal: he'll deliberately dress really scruffily and unkempt, with old, scruffy clothes and unkempt hair, coming to meetings and social events like that, whereas he's not homeless and can afford to look after himself. When confronted about it he will try to portray himself as some kind of social martyr.
If this person is narcissistic, he would be a covert narcissist - someone who uses being a "victim" to get attention versus being grandiose and in the spotlight (overt/malignant narcissist).
@@JodiCarlton Interesting...he will also try to dominate discussions intellectually, to the point where it is really uncomfortable for everyone involved, raising his voice and ruining social events, always with some kind of moral high-stance that you cannot really argue with (in German we call this a ''dead-end argument''). Thank you very much for the feed-back! 🙂
Can someone not have both diagnoses
Yes they can. However autistic/neurodiverse traits versus toxic personality traits (that are stemming from a personality disorder) are distinctively different in origin and intent. Also it’s possible for an autistic individual to learn toxic scripts and behaviors from a toxic parent or other influential person. These can be often be unlearned by a motivated neurodivergent whereas a toxic person won’t be motivated or capable of updating behaviors for personal development.
Hi is there a test for adults to take? I'm thinking it's best for me to know exactly where I stand.
You can get formal assessment, but it's often hard to find a qualified provider. There are also quite a few online assessments that will give you some clarity. You can take a quiz on my website: jodicarlton.com/take-a-quiz/. Also, here's a video I did about being diagnosed: ruclips.net/video/ZVhZ5OrJDvg/видео.htmlsi=dgNowpjMJReGWDYO
Omg I so needed to hear this. I'd love to touch base with you if that's possible?
Of course. Please feel free to send my team an email at gethelp@jodicarlton.com and we'll be in touch within 24 hours!
Here is one: I was dating a woman who had baby twins. She requested I get off one of my meds, just in case they got into them. I promise you that never would've happened. I end up having a grand maul seizure in the middle of the night in her bedroom. She brings all my stuff to my hospital room, tells me if she forgot anything to call her first. If I show up unannounced, she would get a restraining order. All I did wrong was have a seizure, and she hated me after it. I later found out that people weren't even allowed to say my name around her. She somehow was the victim because I had the only seizure I ever had in my life.
Everything I said about how she shattered me, she twisted it around as if to say, well you should've thought about that first. She keeps popping in and out of my life, first apologizing, then saying I'm a failure. As long as I live ill never understand her. She has no filter and no concept of sarcasm - concrete ve abstract
Also can take zero criticism about what she has done..
One of the last things, I almost want her to be autistic lightly on the Spectrum because I'd rather accept that then her just being horrible at being a human
These behaviors do not sound like traits of autism. These are toxic and destructive behaviors more aligned with a personality disorder like narcissism or borderline personality. She may be autistic, as well, but autistic traits are not inherently toxic and destructive. A person can be both autistic and have a personality disorder.
@JodiCarlton Thank you. I left out one thing. She has twins. After me, she would live with a man for three years or so, then move on to another. Her son's father turned his back on their kids. Every time the son started to bond with any of these men, the relationship would end. The boy is now maybe 20 and is full of rage, and she has no clue where it's coming from. When a child says he wishes his mom never met his father, even when it means he wouldn't exist, to me, that's a red flag for maybe suicidal tendencies.
It breaks my heart for the boy.
She works in the tech sector in Colorado and is very very successful. She could've easily bought a home at anytime and provided her kids with a stable environthatment instead of moving them around. I wish I was exaggerating. I know this from the two times she hoovered me.
Yes, it does sound like there are personality issues here - certainly emotional unavailability if not something more toxic. My heart goes out to her son, as well. I hope he finds some stability in his life.
@JodiCarlton it didn't end there. I'm guessing three maybe four times since that, she has reached out to me. The first one was when she was at the end of a relationship. Her confidence was shattered. The job she had wasn't paying her enough to survive on in Denver. I helped her with her resume, and we practiced questions she'd asked in interviews. We talked every night. Eventually, she ends up doing a re enactment if how she told me she loved me for the first time. I was falling. However. My friends stepped in and reminded me of the massive mental anguish I went through after the hospital room incident. A loyalty test was set up to see if she would flake again. I told her I was having some issues associated with the seizure and some depression and I needed time to work through them. She got the job, by the way. Told her to please just wait for me and to focus on her new job. I had to find out. When she said I was just jealous because she got her job, that wasn't a good sign. I pulled for her to hold on like I would for Alabama playing a game. Finally, I made the call, the person that answered it soinded just liike the one that walked into that hospital room. Turns out she had been dating and hooking up the whole time. Asked her why she couldn't wait. Her answer was, what if I dissappear again. Should of told her right then about the test. She then hinted at that I was more of a rebound thing. A lot of people would be upset by that but shrug it off. Our situation wasn't normal. I poured my heart out to her when she first called about the anguish because of her calling me a freak and flipping the script, making her somehow the victim in all of this.
Just backed off, and the same issues came back to the surface.
The second time, she called was to inform me that she was going to unfriendl me on FB because she moved in with a guy. Fair enough. I asked her before that could she maybe look at my resume and do some interview questions. Her response was for me to figure it out for yourself. She was blocked for five years
Two years ago, I decided to unblock her, thinking she wouldn't be stupid enough to reach out to me. She was. If it weren't for two friends of mine finding each other after 20 years and getting married, would've told her to bounce. Instead I thought maybe some light was shining on me. She told me that her soon to be ex is am alcoholic and that she wanted to move back to Florida because I was there. The list of all the good things she remember about me, how good the sex was, it went on and on. I was taking care of my mom, who has Alzheimer's. My dad is 90 now and wasn't up for the task. This was right after COVID. Before that I was starting to get my sales career up and running. Life happens. She didn't want to talk to me on the phone. Her reason was, she wasnt sure if out attraction was just physical and nothing more. I said she knew it was more, and she knows if we talk, she would realize it. Her kids just graduated high school and she was going to bring them down where I live. The last time I saw them they were babies. This is when she started to back off a bit. I invited her and the kids to coffee. They came down but never contacted me. After that she tried to ghost me. I called her out and her response was about me not meeting my potential (doing uber eats to pay bills while I look after my mom) and essentially I was a loser. Also, she said in a year, she would probably meet someone else and i wasn't worth the grief. I was minding my own business. She contacted me, again and told these beautiful lies, such as we never had a chance as a couple and that it ended to soon... it went from that to I'm not making enough money. Against she said before it didn't matter how much I made, she just wanted someone to love her and be honest. She has enough money, so that's not an issue.
Sorry it's so long, but just wanted to illustrate what this woman has put me through for over 20 years.
The hope I have is that since her mom was mentally ill, addicted to plastic surgery and an alcoholic, maybe the apple didn't fall from the tree, especially since her breast augmentation was over the top. She's a woman that would've laughed at that years ago. Mental Illness I'm my eyes would be better than thinking she sucks at being a human being.
Since she always says after after she reaches out to me is because I popped into her head, I'm going to write an email, with screen shots of all the thing she said and ask why.
I know, what's the point, but I need closure. Telling her to take time and really think her answer.
I'm sorry about how long this is but the Crux of it is I've been suffering from depression since the breakdown I had in 2000 so her coming in my life made the depression even worse
I was wondering if you had any info /advice for gay men with autism and gay relationships
Hi Maxwell. Truthfully my advice is the same for gay men as it is for heterosexual couples. Autism does not discriminate based on sexual orientation. The foundation for neurodiverse relationships is learning to communicate. You speak language differently even though you use the same words. If one of you is not autistic and the other is, it's likely that one of you doesn't speak emotion as fluently as the other. Both of you are 100 legitimately valid in the languages that you DO speak, and it is imperative that you each NOT try to make the other be more like yourself. Learn how to translate one another's language as best possible. CracktheCommunicationCode.com
Can a person be an aspie with narcissistic traits?? Because this sounds like a mix match version of my ex. I am also an aspie and am aware aspies can self depreciate and if we don't make the realization we're autistic early in life. Before I found out I was autistic I used to villain-ize myself when I was in my teens because my family and school peers made me feel like I was automatically sub human and inferior by default.
Yes, Asperger's and narcissism can share similar traits... Some features of narcissism include lack of empathy, lack of self-awareness, and disregard for the perspective of others. Because some individuals with autism can also struggle with similar traits, they are often mistaken as narcissists. However, the malice and callous disregard for the well-being of others that is inherent to narcissism is not a feature of autism. It's also true, though, that people can be both autistic and narcissistic - these are separate and distinct. I actually created a full webinar with a quiz to help people determine if their partners are autistic or narcissistic (or both) - you might it helpful! Here's the link: www.tryinteract.com/share/quiz/5e04df9cb2378a0014eb88d9
Also a person can be both a narcissist and have autism
what about emotionally immature people vs Aspie?
Hello. Can you be more specific with your question? Thanks!
How can I know someone is an Aspie and not emotionally immature ? after all both have similar traits and don't have bad intention.
Thanks for the clarification. Autism (being an aspie) involves a lot more than emotional fluency (some Aspies are actually VERY emotionally mature - for example my own Aspie daughter is 21 and is worlds ahead of most or her peers in emotional maturity). Some people who are NOT Aspies are emotionally immature and never quite develop their emotional IQ. To determine if someone is possibly an Aspie, you want to look at other signs like sensory thresholds that are really high or really low (sound, smell, touch sensitivities or the opposite like not have much sense of smell, being super touchy feely, enjoying activities that are high sensation like roller coasters, lots of fidgeting or physical stims like nail biting, knee-bouncing, mouth sounds). Autistic individuals also miss social cues like knowing when or how to start a conversation or when people are losing interest. Also look for special interests that seem more than just hobbies - like super hobbies with high levels of interest and knowledge - these may change over time. Hope that helps!!
How can I reach you?
Please visit JodiCarlton.com or email support at gethelp@jodicarlton.com.
Yes my Ex is as you describe for Narcissist.
Is it possible for someone to be both?
Yes. Here’s a video about that. ruclips.net/video/bTCFLtkkUWA/видео.htmlsi=2oyn_xzvcPA135TX
I also have a course and an assessment to help figure this out. jodicarlton.com/courses/neurodivergent-or-narcissist-or-could-it-be-both/
my son is aspergers. and my ex husband. my what I dont understand is why they are lying all the time? they lie to people at work/school...they also dont respect authorities and rules. is that a typical behaviour?
Pathological demand avoidance
Please see my recent video about lying: ruclips.net/video/ieDs_DmyZ2w/видео.html
Autistics are disproportionately anarchist.
Really need your help
Please contact Jodi's support staff at gethelp@JodiCarlton.com for assistance!
Really... Right out of the blocks... Huge assumptions here... "Hello Ladies..." Then the autistic one is "him." Time to wake up! Women have autism... AND... are very good at masking. I would argue that high masking autistic women can look a lot like covert narcism. It is 2023, time to include men as NT, and women as autistic. You do no favours with this gynocentric presentation.
As is stated in the description, this was recorded when I was speaking specifically to a group of NT women married to ND men. I talk regularly on this channel in other videos about my young adult autistic daughter and neurodivergent best friend, mother, and grandmother. All women, three of whom have been guests on my podcast. Episode 1 of Season 3 is with a yet another female ND guest and the topic is masking. You can find it in the Podcast playlist. 👍👍
this has given me a sense of relief, my guy can make eye contact so I'm just curious if that's normal xx
Hi Nadhia. Yes some people are more comfortable with eye contact than others. It really depends on the individual and how the brain processes visual stimuli - for some it’s overwhelming, and distracting but for others it helps with communication.
Are aspies mistaken for covert narcissists?
Yes, this happens quite frequently! I have a course and a quiz to help partners identify the differences in traits and behaviors - the ones that are neurodivergent versus the ones that are toxic/abusive. jodicarlton.com
Great video, but I’d like to point out you seem to think your audience is mostly female, and I don’t mind being called a lady 😂 but I also just want to maintain the idea that narcissism isn’t strictly tied to men, it’s just easier to spot. From my experience with narcissistic women, it’s much more malignant and manipulative than male narcissists and are less likely to be found out due to the social aspect of women being put under the microscope less so than men in this specific field.
Hello. This video was addressing a group of 100% women married to men. Please see the description. 😃 To your point, narcissism, and other toxic personality traits are not at all limited to men. I would disagree, however, that women are put under a microscope less than men in this field - did you know that mothers were considered the cause of schizophrenia at one point? Women have historically been diagnosed with more mental illness than men, and still are. Regarding narcissism, specifically, men have been more likely to be identified as narcissists and women as borderline personalities (both toxic), but in recent years we are learning more about overt and covert narcissism, and the narc abuse cycle. As we discover more, we also recognize more narcissistic traits in women. Is this because they've been there all along or does this coincide with women taking on more masculine roles, responsibilities, and personas? It's something to explore. Thanks for the opportunity to share more about this topic.
They are both very self centered, but for different reasons..
Youre wrong narcs /sociopaths DO NOT always take pride in their appearance in fact it can be the complete Opposite . So i don't think that should be on this list
No group has all traits all the time, and a narcissist or sociopath may not care about appearances. However, managing image is a core trait of narcissism so it is common to be attentive to appearance. A sociopath doesn’t always care how others feel and may not be as concerned about appearance - this may be seen in an autistic narcissist (which results in sociopathy).
@@JodiCarlton what the heck is an autistic narcissist ? And how does that result in sociopathy?
@@Love_Mel thanks for asking these clarifying questions! I am happy to explain. An autistic narcissist is someone who is both autistic and narcissistic - some professionals don't believe this is possible, but I have seen it quite a bit in my career. Autism is neurodevelopmental and narcissism is a personality development disorder that is understood to be influenced by genetics, and environmental factors such as excessive praise/permissiveness or abuse. Autism and narcissism are two separate things and can co-exist based on my experience. Sociopathy (and psychopathy) is not a "diagnosis," but is a description sometimes used to describe antisocial patterns of behaviors and traits that are often seen secondary to diagnoses like narcissism, antisocial personality, borderline personality - these three personality disorders are clustered together (diagnostically) and commonly include overlapping traits with the traits of one being more predominant.
1:40 minute mark. "A lot of times, these men are very charismatic."
Uhm, excuse me, what!?! So only men are narcissists?
Hello, and I'm glad you asked so I can clarify. This particular video was made in a group consisting of members who are women. Many of them were trying to determine the difference in neurodivergent traits or narcissistic traits in their male partners/spouses.Women can also be narcissistic, and interestingly, we're seeing more and more of this in women. The cluster of personality disorders that include these toxic traits and behaviors includes narcissistic, borderline, histrionic, and antisocial. All of these have overlapping traits and characteristics, but historically the data has shown that narcissism and antisocial personalities included more men than women. Borderline and histrionic included more women than men. Thanks again for the opportunity to clarify!
There are so many misconceptions about autism in this video. It’s nothing short of offensive. You generalize so much. I’m autistic and I do care about my appearance. Why? Well, I’ve been criticised about my appearance all my life - hair, facial hair, clothing choices, being too fat or too skinny - and I’m finally aware that I have the right to dress in clothes that I like and have my hair how I like it. So this is one part of my embracing my authenticity.
Also, we do have empathy - sometimes to a devastating extent. We express it differently and in an equally valid way.
Also, why are you still using the term “Asperger’s syndrome”? Asperger was a Nâżì.
Also: why do you police your partner’s wardrobe? Don’t you think that he might actually feel comfortable in some of the clothes that you think “have to go”? What about his autonomy?
Hi Stew. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with being autistic. Every person is unique and valid in their own characteristics and traits. There are some traits that are more common than not in autism and the purpose of this video was not to thoroughly describe autism - it was to differentiate the toxic traits of narcissism from autism. Regarding attire, I believe everyone can dress however is comfortable for them, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be social judgement in public. It’s just reality. Regarding the term “Aspergers,” many people still self-identify as having Aspergers and it is still a clinical diagnosis in many countries that don't use the DSM 5 criteria. Despite Hans Asperger's political affiliation, historically, he's still the one who identified these differences in children.
This isn't accurate. You are describing a grandiose narcissist. Vulberable or covert narcissist don't always care about their appearance and aren't the life of the party.
Hi Sara. Thanks for your comment! Yes that’s exactly true. Covert narcissism is often harder to spot as well. This video is highlighting characteristics of the more malignant overt narcs. I cover all types of narcs in my various videos but particularly in a free 45 minute webinar with a quiz that will help people determine what type of relationship they’re in. If you think it would be helpful to you here’s the link: jodicarlton.com/autism-versus-narcissism
Eh, not quite, they do care about their appearance to an extent, or seeming gentrified and "proper" rather than flamboyant and sensual. The polarity of their grandiosity doesn't define their behavior nearly as much as their subtype, a somatic vulnerable narcissist is going to behave in a similar fashion to it's grandiose counterpart just in a more attenuated pattern, but a malignant vulnerable celeberal narcissist (the true covert, the absolute worst for your mental health) is going to be significantly more difficult to spot, yet still they'll operate from the same script just inverted. The type of grandiosity just changes the type of supply they seek and the toolset they can/will use to get it. Narcissists flip flop between each state continuously to like a light switch if you pay close attention, the part that really fucks with people's heads about vulnerable narcissists is how quickly and how often they flip, and when it does happen they essentially switch to a secondary false self which is part of the reason they gaslight so much, because they also gaslight themselves at the same time.
Yes NPD is different from ASD; however, neither has empathy. It is this lack of empathy that leads to the narcissistic behaviors.
Hi Laura. Thank you for your comment - this is a commonly misunderstood perception. It is not true that all autistic individuals do not experience empathy. Actually many experience a considerable amount of empathy that is overwhelming (particularly female autistics, but males too). A key difference is in how empathy is expressed and communicated. Neurotypicals determine that empathy is not experienced if it is not conveyed in a way that we (I am an NT) receive it. Although this DOES mean that a communication gap exists, it does NOT mean that the empathy is not present. Individuals who do not experience empathy are more likely experiencing alexithymia (which is decreased awareness of internal emotional awareness in one's self, and the corresponding physiological sensation that accompanies emotion). This prevents an individual from being aware of their own emotions, which in turn prevents them from being aware of another person's emotion. Research tells us that about 50% of individuals with autism experience alexithymia (which means 50% do not). Alexithymia is also present in neurotypicals as well.
Again, narcissistic behaviors, though are intentional behaviors that are for the purpose of controlling others for power NOT for the purpose of being in control of one's own world - there is a huge difference, so it's really important not to classify autistic behaviors as narcissistic. Just as NT codependent behaviors in an ND relationship of passive aggression, kitchen sinking, criticism, flooding, etc. are also controlling and manipulative, and can be emotionally harmful to neurodiverse partners - but these are not "narcissistic," either.
@@JodiCarlton I appreciate your conversation. I’m sure that all people with autism are not the same. I understand that. I really shouldn’t be grouping them all together no more than I should group all people without autism together. However, it has been my vast experience with my partner and with The partners of the women in my support group with husbands who have autism that there is a lack of empathy. It’s not an expressed empathy. It’s empathy that is not felt. I really should only speak for my partner. He has even admitted that he lacks empathy. He’s very narcissistic and he knows it. I can’t even begin to imagine how to move him past that. After all, autism is a developmental disability. I would put him at the emotional developmental age of about three.
@@laurabeigh283 Yikes…. And what emotional development age is it where you insult your husband publicly calling him akin to a 3 year old? It sounds like you two have quite a bit of strife between you. Maybe it’s less about him being Aspie, and more about the strife. You could try addressing the issues and strife first off, and see if you perceive his Aspie differently, after you both have healed from the emotional injuries you have caused each other. Just an idea. Good-luck!
@@jaquirox6579 Interesting that you are triggered. You must resonate with having a delayed emotional development. It’s not an insult, it’s a fact. Autism is a developmental disability. I understand that it is a spectrum and not everyone on the spectrum has the developmental age of a three-year-old, but the one I know does.
@@laurabeigh283 I just thought it was quite rude… and if my spouse talked that way publicly about me I would question their loyalty. There’s just some things that are more appropriate being only said in private. But that’s my personal opinion based off of not wanting to hurt my spouse. I definitely don’t have a “developmental disability”, but regardless of what anyone has, there’s something cruel about using your words in this way. All humans have strong points and weak points, including you. And there’s no need to put anyone down for what they particularly have. And as a non medical professional, you may also be factually incorrect about how you are Dxing your husband.
I’m realizing now that I shouldn’t have said anything here. If you want to be disrespectful towards your husband, in public, then you’re going to no matter what anyone tries to say to you. But in the Aspie community, don’t be surprised if you keep getting people rebuking your poor behavior, because you probably will.