Feminist SJW Anime Translators (feat. Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid)
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- Опубликовано: 30 дек 2020
- Hi! I'm a left-wing feminist who translates anime and games! Let's chat about the dub of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid over a nice cup of tea and a can of gummy worms.
Thank you to my volunteer voice actors!:
Arkannon
The Canipa Effect: / thecanipaeffect
Jes: (IG: thejes.art)
Husband-kun
Kelsa (@Kelsa twitch.tv/kelsadelphi)
Monique - GameFreakGeekGirl (@Gamefreakgeek)
Rachid
Red Bard: / @redbardiscool
I used some BGM from the anime, Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid and I used the karaoke of the theme song to create my own parody for this video. You can buy the OST here: www.play-asia.com/miss-kobaya... (and other places, just look around.)
Some sources:
• Miss Marchi's Boycott
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...
Oxford Languages Dictionary
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultura...
www.theatlantic.com/entertain...
www.thoughtco.com/patriarchal....
bechdeltestfest.com/about/
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%...
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-4...
• Does Capitalism Mean F...
knpr.org/npr/2019-11/many-met...
/ dub_writers_using_char...
www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/wo...
Support me on Patreon: / sarahktranslate
Channel art: Vera / veracaudieux
Learn Japanese with me: / @sarahmoonjapanese
Cooking Channel: / @sarahlovesfood
Misc/Personal Channel: / @sarahsun8883
Email: sarahktranslate@yahoo.com
Twitter: (@SarahKTranslate)
Disclaimers: all opinions are my own, sponsors are acknowledged. Links in the description are typically affiliate links that let you help support the channel at no extra cost.
Hi, lovelies! I'll try to moderate the comments section, since I assume I'll get a lot of....colorful...comments, but I may not get to everything in a timely manner so scroll the comments at your own risk.
Thanks to all my lovely volunteer voices and actors who helped bring this vision to life! I got this idea a couple years ago and it's been simmering in my brain all this time so it's a huge relief to finally have this......short film?......out in the wild. 🙇♀️
@@DeconvertedMan ummmmm....no?
I loved it... Thank you so much for your work on this and the informative and amusing hour!
I liked it! I don't even watch anime, I'm just interested in translation and localization. 😻
Just ignore hater's. I'm aware you can't translate word for word.
@@DeconvertedMan Did you......watch the video??? 😅
There are a number of comments discussing not being able to tell if the video is satire or not. I ended up watching the video all the way through until the very end and wanted to share my thoughts.
First off i agree with literal translations due to the language barrier it would be near impossible. For example if the line in question was "These baked potatoes are good. Did you bake them yourself?" The translation might read as "baked potato yum. Yourself?" Which clearly would make no sense. And with lip syncing lines the line could end up being "Did you make these potatoes yourself? They're very good." Which in itself I don't see much of an issue with as it's portraying the same exact meaning just worded differently.
Where I think many are finding issue is when the line goes from being about baked potatoes to something about a social or political nature. Which to be fair I get why people would be mad about it. As several translators have stated which I tend to agree with the best method someone can avoid that is learning the language themselves to remove the middle man.
Personally for me I've never found too much of an issue with translations as for me I'll watch the sub then the dub so I'm getting two entirely different versions of the same show.
In regards to censorship though i completely agree with you. I do feel that should be the primary focus of anime fans. That and calling a rice ball a donut because its been well over 25 years and I'm still a bit salty about that thank you very much.
Fantastic video - still incredibly (and depressingly) relevant as we are still having this argument 3 yrs later.
This was very helpful. Thankyou for taking the time and effort to explain
Note, in the manga, Tohru says "I don't think clothes are the problem here." So, make of that what you will.
If you think it means anything other than the boobs, you're pathetically stupid
Tohru said that because the real problem was not the clothes but the Lucoa's boobs. In other words, the were no SJW idea behind that conversation. The translation made it appears that Lucoa was a feminist lmao
@@henriquemarques6196 arent feminists sjw's or am i missing something
What a way to start the year! (Well, technically speaking this video is from 2020, but c'mon) Good job Sarah! And nice cameo from Bard lol
"You're gonna make it Li'l Brudder! You just keep scrapin' along!"
I can make it on my own!
Recently it became known that the VAs on the JJK 0 movie were only payed like $600 as a total amount for the entire project each. It's clear that like 3 line changes clearly aren't the biggest issue with anime dubs right now.
It's too bad that isn't being focused on apparently
Yes they are
You bought this shit? Are you guys that easy to convince 😂
Your best video yet!
That closing cover of the theme song is just *chef's kiss*
❤️❤️ loved the video, commenting for the algorithm
Found your channel from a certain colleague's retweet and this is fantastic content.
go get em comrade
🖖
Aren't you that Fujoshi person? I think I seen you before?
Haven't seen the full video yet but Happy New Year~♡♡
P.S. That wig looks pretty good on you(keep it)
Really weird to get this and the Cartoon Cipher video on the Dragon Maid dub so close together, cool though. Thanks for this video, I’ve only seen the sub, and while those lines do seem like, if not a bad translation, at least not the best option they could’ve gone with imo, I don’t think I’d ever thought of it like how you described before, that it’s 3 lines out of around 4,000-ish (sorry I forgot the number already). Puts it into perspective how small these outliers are, although the Cipher video took more issues with the style of translation for some parts in the whole show, but that’s just a normal difference of opinion and not a stupid personal attack over a sentence.
Honestly, sometimes I feel like shows would benefit from multiple subs and dubs to suit people’s tastes, there are just so many way to translate lines, and different philosophies on translation that can make the same show feel wildly different, and it sucks that we only ever get to see a single profession sub and dub for most shows. Not saying doing more than one dub would be feasible or even a good idea if put under scrutiny, but it just sucks that a hypothetical show someone could love in English translated very close to the source in a particular way, could end up for all time with a translation that makes heavy changes to adapt it to what might sound cool to a western audience, but removes some of what that person liked about the original performances or script.
I saw another comment mention Yu Yu Hakusho, and yeah, from what I’ve heard in comments and could tell from a single scene or two during the Toguro fight, the dub changed so much, including the tone and characters. So much “sprucing up” of the dialogue was done; Genkai putting the spirit cuffs on Yusuke went from Yusuke saying something straightforward like “Damn, these are heavy!” to “I’m not into kinky stuff like this and you’re too old!”; and when their past opponents in the crowd discuss the match, they go from simply stating what’s happening in the match in that old shounen-y way, to insulting each other and making jokes and bantering. I probably remembered some of those a bit wrong, but this is such a huge change that it would seem like a prime target for purists, but the Yu Yu Hakusho dub is one of the most beloved of all time, largely because of how natural it felt, which only could’ve happened (I assume) if they went off-script and far away from literal translations (and even keeping the same sentiment in a bunch of cases really) like they did.
I’m learning Japanese currently (been doing it for a few years but still very poor skills) and I feel like I’d like the idea of maybe becoming a translator someday, but boy does it sound difficult to juggle all the different way to interpret something, along with the different ways the audience can interpret what you said, as well as others’ opinions on your translation.
Side note but that’s one reason why I feel like simuldubs are maybe not the best, having longer to ponder over scripts, performances, and being able to examine the entire original version surely has to provide a higher chance of a better dub. Twists could happene that impact how you’d treat a character’s lines and intent, maybe a small change to make it sound more natural erases a bit of nuance that later would prove to be important? Also not translation related but I assume it would help avoid situations where actors clearly take a few episodes or more to settle into their roles, I love the performances in the Assassination Classroom dub, but when I revisited the first few episodes, I remember thinking they clearly sound like they’re doing a different voice to start, compared to most of the series, feels like something that would be lessened with more time to workshop everything. Not a big dub watcher anymore usually and obviously not a professional, but just seems sub-optimal apart from speed.
Also sorry for the big wall of text, hope it’s not too rambly and pointless haha. Really liked how well-thought out the video was, and the voice cameos were a cool touch.
I just watched the video. I was planning on buying season 1 of Miss Kobayashi Dragon Maid on DVD. I watched episode 1 ( both the sub and dub) on RUclips and like both versions and now after watching this video will the dub all the way thru. I'm glad I was recommended this video.
This video is so good and need more exposure, commenting for the algorithm! : D
Lil budder...lol "Im gonna be a quarterback when I grow up. Im gonna throw for 1000 yards."
"Heart of a champion!"
Awesome video. New fan who is trying to learn japanese, so glad I found your channel.
You certainly were not exaggerating when you recently mentioned that you were working on a more production intensive video lately.. holy moly, this is really an impressive piece of work. I'm proud to be a patreon. All joking about #leftistagenda aside, may this new year bring sanity, appreciation and compassion to the ways America treats her workers, healers, teachers and dreamers.
This is peak comedy!! 🤣🤣
I'm studying Japanese so I can understand what I watch. I love anime and manga drawing. I've taken what you said by learning all sources for Japanese.
That was amazing! What I love most is ranting and well - thought out, thoughtful ranting in particular. I think I may like pet peeves more but still... So thank you thank you!
Oh no dub vs sub fight plus social justice? This is basically online nuclear war.
And what an epic hour it was XD
that can of worms running joke is soo good! I've never seen anyone do something like that!!!
"I'm starting to think this is all just outrage for the sake of outrage." I think you may be on to something there.
In all seriousness, I'm glad I came across this video. It's refreshing to see someone speak from an intellectual middle position on this controversy that I've only heard mutterings from both sides about. I think I've decided that for now, my enjoyment of anime is not ruined by a few questionable translations, and I have extra motivation to also continue learning Japanese myself, after hearing (and being impressed by) your knowledge of it. So thank you for this. I think it would do everyone on both sides some good to see this video.
Edit: After seeing the end, I just wanted to add that my final takeaway on Marchi is that I don't think she did a bad job like people are making it out on her localization, but I do think she's done a pretty bad job of responding to the criticism. Your response is easily lightyears above anything she's said about the situation in both class, and productive education.
Found the channel from Red Bard a week or two ago, been enjoying the content so far! This is my 3rd time watching this so I thought maybe I should say hi, so Hiya 👋.
Why this video has so many dislikes idk, its well thought out and level headed.
the theme song got me lmao
Translation seems like one of those jobs that is unrecognised when done well, but is noticable when something seems amiss. Imo the Kobayashi dub lines in question don't seem that faithful, adding too much instead of leaving it vague. But I don't understand why people would get upset with the Higurashi translation, at that point it seems more like a stupid nitpick to me :P
I read that first line and felt all my translator friends shedding a single tear
Because idiots who overly go nuts over petty crap are the sjw type who act like there's some LGBT agenda or political agenda. When it's a story being told. Even if they added LGBT parts that just diverseness. I'm a lesbian so I enjoy it, I love the relationship between kana and Riku her class mate, it's obvious she's gay. Even with kobyashi and tohru they are your typical femme soft Butch lesbian couple. And add her close guy friend and tohrus dragon friend and boom, delicious story.
@@samanthagardstein3543 wut?
@@samanthagardstein3543 I’m gay and I hate when people try to force that kind of shit. There are plenty of actual gay characters in anime, stop trying to make straight or ambiguous characters gay.
Snowflakes are over sensitive. Stop over analyzing things
I had my doubts at first, but that turned out to be a very well thought-out and even-handed video. Thanks for making it and sharing it!
Didn't follow the controversy you discuss. I can only imagine how out-of-proportion and unreasonable the backlash was, but I still feel like it does sound like those lines were too incongruous. That isn't language I typically see outside of the internet, so hearing it in a show would have felt very jarring to me personally.
I think part of the reason that people feel strongly is that, as you point out, there is a lot of trust being placed in the translators to convey the story accurately. I suspect your perspective is a bit different since you know Japanese and can enjoy the original that way if you wish.
50:08 Woah, this hit me...cause this is actually what we did. Except it was on compressed MPEG2 CD-ROM. Kinda miss the friends you meet on anime newsgroups and IRC. Oh god... My age is showing.
The end end of the eleven minute had me wanting to bleach my ears.
I just wanna leave some love and appreciation under this video because you're amazing and so is your content
The "Patriarchal" joke was actually funny, but it is a prime example of why I don't watch dubs. While the joke is funny, it changes the personality of Luoca from an airhead/naive person to a sarcastic/witty one.
You say that dubbing can actually be better because it ADDS context that makes it easier to digest for foreign markets. But is that actually better? When it changes the original intent of the creators, it lessens the product. I don't envy anime translators, specially those who dub series that are ongoing. It is very hard to do.
One last thing, I still don't understand when or why SJW became a bad word. I consider myself one.
Why do you consider yourself an SJW and do you even know what that term means?
dubs CAN be better and aside from that patriarchal line, I do think this was a very good dub.
@@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon I think dubs could be more enjoyable to some, but better? They are a completely different product altogether, I don't think you could compare them, tbh.
@@willpina
Dubs can be better, with good direction and good writing. Well done dubs can be on par or even better than the original since they can also enhance/improve the source material.
@@TheSHIELDCap if you "enhance" or "improve" the original material, then you've created something different that wasn't intended by the original creator. You may like it better, but that doesn't mean it is.
Such a great video, both the production values and the content.
I literally gasped at the last shot with the beret lolol Amazing job.
Very insightful video. I find seeing a hint of the translation process to be extremely intriguing! Can't wait to see your next video
OK, this was a very interesting video indeed. You’ve definitely stepped up your æsthetic prowess with this one, it definitely justifies the length.
Now, admittedly I haven’t watched the series myself, but I would argue that those lines are a bit too explicitly ‘SJW’-y:
- I went to college as well (or, rather, undergrad at a university) and no-one around me mentioned terms like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘patriarchy’, I learned those terms online, mostly on Tumblr and from Facebook friends whom I’d met under circumstances unrelated to my majors (well, my fellow linguistics students were generally more noticeably left-leaning, but the ones majoring in East Asian studies were not, and the former used a different vocabulary and generally focused on different issues). It really depends on the college you go to and what you major in; would you say the college Kobayashi went to was one he would likely learn those terms at? I don’t have first-hand experience with this myself, but it is my understanding that Japan is too socially conservative for that;hell, I went to uni at Tel-Aviv University, a supposed leftist stronghold, and still.
- I understand the motivations for the line about ‘slut-shaming’: letting it stand without comment would have felt like normalizing it. But it still sounds like wild speculation. Plus, if I understand correctly, the other character’s issue was not with her promiscuity but with ‘stealing her man’; granted, English is my co-native language (alongside Hebrew), but I was not raised in an English-speaking country, so I might be off on this, but isn’t ‘slut’ more about sexual promiscuity, as opposed to ‘hussy’ or ‘floozy’, which imply a more callous attitude? So I figure that something like, ‘Hey, hold on now, “hussy”? What-’ or some other kind of other expression of shock long enough to run out the clock before the next line would avert both issues.
- You’ve covered (heh) the issues around Lucoa’s ‘patriarchy’ line pretty succintly. But I would like to add, regarding the passive voice, that there is a nifty solution: ‘I keep getting comments about this’, which is both active-ish and doesn’t point out who makes those comments.
I would also like to point out that if there was a socio-political motivation for those choices, it feels like it was hampered by spelling them out. I don’t live in the US, but I have read a LOT of American discourse, and it is my understanding that plenty of people even in the US support a lot of left-leaning goals but only as long as they’re not presented as such. A weeb might understand what the problem is with ‘those foreigners dressing up as samurais and ninjas’, or even ‘those weebs’, but when you call it ‘cultural appropriation’ they would associate it with ‘those darned SJWs’ and double down instead.
(Sorry if this came out so long and rambling; I did actually like the video, I just don’t have much to say about the parts I do agree with lol)
Also, I’d heard about the Kyoto Animation fire, but I had no idea it was a deliberate act.
*EDIT:* Also, the part about dragon discrimination sounded like a huge stretch. From what I understand that was actually a concern of the dragon in question, and it only made sense to address it as such. Plus, the part about ‘we’re both women’ sounds like the _opposite_ of queer erasure: a line like that makes it sound like a relationship between women is unthinkable, while ‘I’m not into women’ acknowledges that women being into women is generally a possibility.
The "but we're both women" thing is apparently a very common trope in yuri stories (I haven't seen much yuri, but this is what I've heard from fans of the genre.) I agree that on the surface, it definitely doesn't make sense to consider it queer erasure.
@@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon So… cultural adaptation for an audience that is unfamiliar with the reference?
22:17 I want to bring up a theory to this. Lucoa is the Quetzalcoatl. Which is the Aztec snake god. Whom was originally a he (he got freaky and had a child with his sister after his brother spiked his drink, yes that part of the show is true as far the folklore goes). Now, don't quote me on this but, if I remember right Quetzalcoatl could change into different forms including that of a female. So her still using a male pronoun could be less about gender politics and more about staying true to the original myth Lucoa is based on. And as Quezlcoatl is a patreon of the arts something tells me he would probably take zero Offense to his children depicting him like a large breasted bimbo woman. Probably would just think that's funny, but what do I know I am not a flying feathered serpent god that birthed humanity from my blood.
UR contradicting urself then. If she is a God a supreme being then why the fvck would a powerful being like that would talk about patriachy lmfao NO Godlike creature would ever talk about patriarchy lol 😂😂😂
I was a bit sceptical going into this video since I wasn't sure how intense or big the outrage over those lines was in the first place, but this was really interesting.
I think the general discussion on literal translation =/= localization is so fascinating, most people dont realize how much work goes into re-contextualizing (?) certain patterns of speech/sentence structure/wordplay etc.
Great essay. Go get 'em, comrade. :^)
The main issue with Funimation's localization in this scene is that they completely changed the meaning of the sentence, and the character's reasoning.
@@hdfthryht
Except that "patriarchy" fits well in context in a weird way. You're just grasping on straws.
@@TheSHIELDCap They could've literally made the line about praising Hitler while saying she should wear more clothing, and it would've been just as 'accurate' as the line they chose to go with, following their logic,.
Adding in more stuff that wasn't there in the source material is poor translating.
Sexist conspiracy theories were in no way involved in the source material, and there was no reason for Funimation to add them.
@@hdfthryht
"Sexist conspiracy theories"
Implying that badgering women about how they wear is not 'patriarchal'. What you're looking for is a "perfectly accurate translation" when there is no such thing. It's just you're complaining about a buzzword you don't like, even if it's accurate in context.
Lemme guess: when they wrote 'feminists' instead of the 'patriarchy' made Lucoa change her clothes, you would utter a laugh. I bet you don't watch this dub beyond this one line and one scene in a 13 episode series.
I would laugh my ass off if you're gonna with literal translations when they are also poor translations themselves. Or you would double down with the usage of slang in dubs and subtitles can be considered as "poor translation", according to your flawed logic.
@@TheSHIELDCap she is a dragon from another dimesion which wear often revealing clothes,in what universe do the line fit well?
I honestly would've avoided a video like this if Bard didnt lead me here. I didn't know the koboyashi translation problem was a thing and I'm wondering where the rest of this video is going
Ngl I just learned this today never would have thought this was already rampant years ago.
name 2 examples from anime last year. It will be easy for you because it's "rampant"
This was well worth the wait Sarah! I can see now why you said it was taking up all your time. Wow! I haven’t seen this anime yet but will watch it in future (added to a long list!). Apart from that one awkward written line it seems like a well done, fun dub.
4:50 rewatching and just noticed you give him your driver's license lmfao
22:35
That doesn’t necessarily indicate a difference in gender identity, just in gender presentation. If it did, girls who say boku would be “less girl” than girls who use more feminine pronouns, but the fact of the matter is that both types of girls are girls. Unless you subscribe to a different school of thought, I guess.
I know it’s a persona, but I wanted to point that out.
Also amazing contrapoints-like video. There was probably a lot of effort put into it, and that’s really impressive.
All I have to say is... Americans r waaaayyy to passionate about politics.
Like, brah, I just need America to remember that there r other countries that rely on em for their English translation to enjoy anime.
It's hard to get some jokes sometimes. I'm thankful for their hard work either way doe.
Unfortunately the United States is so economically and socially dysfunctional right now that there is a lot of anger. Politics and political affiliation has become like a religion for many Americans.
YUP. a lot of misdirected anger.
@@modernmind5872 Sorry to say this but so is most of Western Europe and the English speaking world and the year 2020 is the most chaotic in recent times. I mean France had yellow-vest protests for over a year and a half and many protests in Germany for the mismanagement of Angela Merkel and the police system.
@@1685Violin You're right. The difference is the USA is more chaotic and politically polarized by default. With historical analysts going so far as to compare current circumstances in the US to the weeks leading up to the French revolution.
@@modernmind5872 Due to the failure of neoliberalism and that neoliberalism is a weak ideology in the first place. It simply doesn't answer many questions people asked or were satisfied with and thus, chaotic divison.
Wow this video was a banger 🔥👏 really like how you went into the outrage of both sides and this is interesting to see as someone who mildly understands Japanese. Really love these long format videos
Thank you so much for making this video. Whenever I'd come across this sort of discourse (particularly about the Dragon Maid Dub or the Higurashi "Nii-nii" line) I'd go "Man, I need Sarah-Moon to do my ranting for me". I'm not a professional translator, but as a hobby I translate old shoujo manga, and I'm always nervous about whether I localized too much, or didn't do it enough. It's so encouraging to hear that other translators make mistakes, and there is no such thing as perfect translation. I hope that I can one day get on your level!
@Kira D Thanks bro.
I love the idea of a dragon goddess losing out to the patriarchy, we win again boys.
Finally finished the whole video! I loved how the video offered different perspectives and didn’t necessarily take one side (which I wouldn’t really care if it did), it works as a good demonstration that nothing is just black & white. Great job on the video!
I don't know what I'm watching but I like it.
The german dub is closer to the sub.
Tohru:"What kind of outfit is that?"
Lucoa:"Because everyone keeps pointing it out to me, I've covered myself a little more. Do you like it?"
Tohru:"Next, you should change your body."😊
Great and interestingly edited video. It reminded me in big parts of the YT Channel ContraPoints. But let's be real. Nothing in this video counters the fact that the translators choices can be influenced by one state of mind and ideology. If you aren't convinced of leftist ideas like this it would be difficult to even come up with these choices, also given that terms like "Cultural appropriation", "Slutshaming" and "Patriarchy" are terms that the general audience won't encounter except if they delved into leftist politics and basically live on twitter (you say yourself you only encountered cultural appropriation in grad school here) they will be left scratching their heads.
Unless Kobayashi was a super smart and studious character like Yukinoshita or Sakamoto (for a lack of better examples) these choices are out of character for the general public and only feel in character for the translator who came up with these choices.
My 2 inarticulate cents for this situation.
You point can be summarized with just one sentence: Give them an inch, they take a mile.
Meaning even if we look at the nuance of those translations, that doesn't mean it's not impossible for any translation to be influenced by agendas that weren't present in the original language in the first place.
And before anyone calls me a sub elitist, I actually prefer dubs unless a dub isn't legally available.
EDIT: I seriously need to proof read before I post it. I had to fix a few spelling and grammatical errors.
I think it's fair to say we all have our biases. It can be tempting to view translations as an excuse to emphasise qualities we see. But at the same time, many of our own conformation biases are unconcious, and therefore are not deliberate. Not trying to put words in your mouth here, just saying that concious choices may be influenced by unconcious biases, even if our desired intent is just to present a funny line in a way western audiences may laugh at.
I will forever defend the 4kids dub of Shaman King, since 99% of the edits they made had no impact on the story, and instead streamlined it, making it distinct. They didn't erase Japanese iconography or names, and even left some (albeit partially censored) blood in there. Given Chocolove's entire shtick is cringe-enducing puns, changing them to English only emphasised that aspect of him, rather than taking it away!
Well then... You just got a new subscriber.
40:43 Yes! How would you know if it was or was what the actual line meant. How would you know know if the line was a troll or not.
It might be a low bar to expect, bit still
Worth every minute that you spent on making and editing this video. Comedy gold. Fair and informative. You are a champion of your industry. 😊👍
This is a great video! Really eye-opening about the translation process. Keep up the great work!! ❤️
I would have watched Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid ages ago if someone had told me it was made by the same guy that made I Can’t Understand My Husband! Show cracked me up when I watched it a few years ago.
Ditto!
this was very digestible and well structured for an hour long video, nice job!
What I love the best about the video is the comments that are negative that have not watched the video. I love dubs and sub and am super glad it has come such a big way since the 90ties.
where’s that Jojo video? 😂
Seconded 😂
I think the things that piss me off about anime/manga translations are more things like "Twenty years after the death of THE Himmel the hero" ("Frieren: Beyond Journey's End", volume 1, page42, page 2 of Chapter 2)... Especially when other chapters of the same manga volume have lines that don't have that extra "the", like "Twenty seven years after the death of Himmel the hero" (pages 112, and 130).
I understand typos, and how they happen, but man I hate them
Personally I’m someone who has been learning for a little over a year and I would just love to poll the amount of people rallying and raging over the translation in their favorite weeb media. Because 9 times out of 10 I bet they could not pass the N5 test. Indeed, I feel like people exposed to the heavily edited dubs of a long since passed era have had their opinions poisoned and are willing to demonize translators without knowing anything about what modern localization entails or the basics of Japanese beyond a small selection of common dialogue. And they also get suspiciously quiet when it comes to changes if its not something they can see or an issue they don’t care about.
One example is that people complained about localization edits in many Nintendo games, including altering some outfits in Xenoblade X to be less revealing on younger characters. They called for the same uncensored, pure approach you talk about. Xenoblade 2 then came out without much of a fuss for the localization and praise for leaving the girls outfits unchanged. Yet, certain dialogue was altered to be less lewd and and such and toning down some of the religious references (perhaps the latter because Japan thinks Christianity references are just done for cool factor, while its not the same here). Suspiciously nobody seemed to give a shit as long as they could see their waifus half naked, I wonder why 🤔
In the end, I think many weebs would really benefit from learning the language themselves. Its a long journey that requires a lot of effort just be able to even start to enjoy Japanese media (after all this time I can only understand most of what is happening in an easy SoL show or manga), but ultimately no matter what, a translation is always going to be someone elses interpretation. If you want a pure experience and can understand all the details and nuances that just get lost in translation, the only way is to learn it yourself. And learning it gives you access to an endless treasure trove of untranslated media and access to a whole other group of fans.
As another note, I always find it funny that people get uppity about certain terms being translated or dropped out instead of left untranslated like honorfics, but nobody is rallying against other parts of the Japanese language to be left alone, like all the personal pronouns or sentence tics that just don’t exist in English either.
I do think dub studios shouldn’t insert western politics into anime. Mostly just to avoid crap like this.
Your versions of those scenes that you showed at the end are way better and would have kept unnecessary controversy away from the show. It would also have felt less jarring.
Not using terms that will alienate anyone from either side of the political isle unless it’s in the original and is a part of the story just seems like a better way to do things to me. Anime should be for everyone, regardless of their political views. The world is divisive enough as it is. Let people have some escapism.
anime is for everyone, but not every anime is for every person. Media isn't all meant for escapism and mindless indulgence. I guarantee there's media you like that seeks to express an idea.
@@PedroGaio I never said it is "all" for that. But 99% of Anime is. And as said in this video, its being ADDED where it never was originally.
Wow, that was good.
Seeing an hour long video with a title like that, my first reaction was "yikes". But that was an extremely well thought out comprehensive, well put together, well edited and entertaining video. I legitimately laughed out loud at your opening song "translation"
Bravo, I will definitely be keeping an eye on your content and will check out your Patreon in a bit.
I've never watched MKDM, but I heard plenty about the criticisms. If I recall, I only saw defense cases made by people who were involved directly with FUNimation. I don't think this kind of nuanced discussion ever picked up enough steam to find its way to me. I dislike overt politicization of dialogue, so I generally didn't look for them so I could stay out of that hot mess. My knee-jerk reaction was to swear off both subs and dubs (specifically those produced by FUNimation especially).
Love 'em or hate 'em, these dialogue changes pushed me to double down on my Japanese studies to improve day by day so I could just watch anime entirely raw. I'd still use Japanese text subtitles if they're there, but nobody but Netflix seems to give a shit about 日本語字幕.
As someone who wants to become a translator but still has so much to learn, I appreciate the time and effort you took to examine both sides of the argument. Hell, I might even consider watching dubs and subs again to see what I can learn from the professionals.
My advice: watch more dubs. Don't assume that because you've seen one, you've seen them all.
@@matt0044 I've watched plenty of dubs by now - and many of them being quite nice, but at this point, the Japanese studies take priority, so safe to say I won't be watching too many modern dubs anytime soon either way.
@@Von_D Why not both version?
@@matt0044 Lack of time, mostly.
I do watch flipping back and forth through dual audio sometimes though. But that's mostly when I want to hear passionate vocals and not necessarily nitpick translations, dialogue changes, and script rewrites.
Honestly I just don’t care about politics too much as it makes me uncomfortable. With the whole Dragon Maid situation with the questionable lines I feel a few of them just didn’t sit right with me, not becuase of politics or because it’s like not the original intent just more that it feels off. Like the patriarchy line to me felt just very out of place and made me feel uncomfortable. Maybe that has to do with me being trans and having trouble telling people idk, but the line just felt out of place to me. The women and dragons line too felt out of place to me but that one is a lot less of an issue. The bigger issue for me is how some anime like Yu-Gi-Oh which is one of my favorite anime franchises being completely screwed over in the English adaptation with getting rid of death, modifying card artworks, and removing entire subplots for no reason. Nowadays we are getting the uncut version of the show on Crunchyroll but there still are no complete official home media releases in the US with the original video and audio track. It may not be political in nature but I just get really passionate on shows that I like getting dinged up sometimes. Luckily it’s really only one show I gotta worry about getting messed up instead of like 90% of them. I’m learning Japanese on my own right now but I’m still to the point where I need to watch subtitles and rely on them due to only being super early on. Also I like the way your alternate translations were. The webs part was funny lol
late comment but i feel like it makes everyone uncomfortable, because these kind of feminists look at the world through very myopic lenses. They're fanatic and contrary to self perception, rather intolerant. Kinda like nazis
The question: Is Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid pro feminist, or anti feminist?
The answer: yeno.
The story is lesbian
Imagine cancer trying to defend itself.
imagine being so bad at your job you get replaced by an AI 😂😂
You'd be the expert.
@@diplow1 You won't have trouble with that...
@@matt0044 well i'd sure hope so
I really loved the editing of this video and thought you did an amazing job articulating your points.
I think a lot of blame that falls on translators really doesn’t belong there, but it’s infinitely easier to punish a single person with a visible social media presence and name than laws and companies that deem certain translation choices the only choice.
It just seems like people take the 3 lines of the Kobayashi dub and pretend that she’s a crusader of ruining the “grit” of anime and throw her in as a Core Problem of dubbing. Wanting someone’s career to end over three lines that were all jokes and not even serious rhetoric is a problem.
Also, the only word I would consider not widely known would’ve been the culture appropriation bit and that was the joke I thought was pretty funny. The meaning is easy to get even if you don’t know the official term, as you explained.
It’s just mind blowing how these people expect translators to hit the perfect balance of faithful and understandable each and every time as though they’re given all the time in the world and aren’t on a tight schedule.
Exactly there's always going to be hit or misse translations and dubs and jokes are subjective to but ofcourse there are those people out there that will get hypersensitive over every single thing and treat there opinions as objective fact
It's nice to see someone who understands political movements by their definition, rather than just grabbing any remotely progressive line and running with it for outrage clicks. What you said about these being selective lines is so true. People are working themselves into a frenzy over the same examples over and over, insisting that entire dubbing companies are trash for them, despite the *hundreds* of other lines that don't fit their conformation bias.
I have grown very tired of reactionaries online milking whatever mild, milquetoast criticism of anime tropes and marketing, to insist that it's a "Culture war" against the "moral outrage brigade". Ironic considering those people who are constantly ranting about Censorship in anime are actively trying to drown out criticism they don't like. Personally, as a leftist animation enthusiasm, I want there to be open, good-faith discussion on subtext, themes and tropes in all media. In my view, it's vital that we are critical about what we love. IT helps us appreciate what truly shines even more.
Not to go too off topic, but I recently criticised the "Spectacular Spider-Man" cartoon for failing the bechdel test. Not because that one critique ruins the entire show (it doesn't), but that it limits what potential the show already had. Alas, executive meddling meant that much of this potential was unfulfilled, but it's something we can use for our own art as much as the art of big studios.
I'm not really a DC marvel girl. I don't hate it but I'm just more interested in Japanese things.
This is so wonderful!!!!! Like, amaaazing!!! Just commenting to help the algorithm!
I love the humor & critique
Another dub I love was Yu Yu Hakusho 😍 Yusuke seemed so different in the Japanese vs English!
Guess no one was wearing headphones for that audio joke at 39:56
44:31 Except if they’re Ex-Arm in which case they would give it to a good translator but the translator would exclusively work with legal documents and do Chinese-to-English.
You really knocked it out of the park!
I swear to god those idiots trying to make anime into some sort of culture war don't actually enjoy anime. At the very least, they haven't been into anime for a very long time. I just want my fandom to go back to the way it was without loud idiots making mountains out of molehills and making something I love so fucking stressful.
Same here with star wars as well
Based
😅 hiring idiots to voice anime doesn't help anime
Doomer Feminist has entered the chat, i'll grab a can of worms with you.
Oh my god the ending song is beautiful. Your takes were really insightful imo!
Haha, I love this video! It was so much fun and really good editing
I finally watched the video!! So, here are my scorching hot takes on this topic.... I... basically agree with all your points! Yeah... I wish I had some things to add, but I don’t!
So, here are my 100% subjective opinion on the lines lol.
Once again, I haven’t seen Kobayashi and almost always watch anime with English or French subs. I thought the “cultural appropriation” line was quite funny mostly because it was a word play (it was the “without culture” part that I actually thought funny). The “patriarchy” one was super cringe. I know that my friends and I would never say something like that even though we’re pretty left-leaning. The “slut-shaming” one just fell flat for me too, from what little I know it seemed super out of character.
As for the “I’m not into women or dragon”... well as a bi person I thought it was quite funny, sue me! My complaint with the “racist against dragons” line would just be that it seems the dub added a joke where the line was seemingly pretty straightforward in Japanese.
So yeah, at the end of the day, not a huge deal at all. Definitely not something to harass someone over.
Also hey, someone else who was disappointed by TRoS! 🙃
PS: I saw that Glass no Kamen manga!! 👀
It's a huge deal since that character would never say those words. It's not their persona and not how they would talk. They change a whole lot of things and they are cringey as fvck
Today’s weebs are too weak without the constant threat of 4Kids picking up their favorite show for dubbing (srsly tho this was a very informative video. i already knew from studying spanish that one to one translation isn’t all it’s cracked up to be but i didn’t realize just how different japanese was from english)
I'm glad you covered this because I was thinking about the controversy of the Dragon Maid Dub and thought that
1. Most people who translate anime are themselves anime fans and I don't think they would destroy the thing they love.
2. If something was changed from the original Japanese owners work it would have to talked over and approved before it would happen.
Overall great video, especially for my left ear at times 😀
This was such a great and insightful video! I usually don't interact a lot with fandom spaces so I'm not the most up-to-date on the latest "controversies"/outrage for outrage's sake when it comes to anime/Japanese-English translations/localizations, but it's so sad to see this sort of mentality actually going around the anime/"weeb" fandom.
I am slowly getting into the translation/translator side of anime/manga/Japan-video games and I just want all anime/niche japan-media/ translators to be recognized and praised for their works. Y'all are great for bringing these mediums to us weebs who understand English but don't know any Japanese. (I mean I'm trying to learn🥺🥺🥺) (and also other languages that uses your translations for a game of translation telephone)
Honestly, Marchi's situation downright suck the way people use her as a scapegoat for their (bad-faith) criticism/outrage, it's just incredibly nasty and unfortunate to see. This video actually made me curious to look up what she's worked on and, from what I've seen of it, her work is darn good. (Not to discredit actual good-faith criticism but That wouldn't look like this)
Cultural appropriation is how society has developed for millennia.
The patriarchy line did kinda rub me the wrong way back in the day, but all the outrage is definitively insane and unreasonable. Also Lil' Brudder is pretty adoreable.
Parodia?
What being single in your forties looks like
Speaking from experience?
@@matt0044 I think people can recognize a corpse without being dead themselfs
@@keinnerflores Again, speaking from experience?
@@matt0044 No but I'm sure you are, considering how valiantly you've been defending this video for months now. Only someone truly pathetic would do that and not understand common sense.
@@Jabrownie23 Bruh, months? I haven't dumpster dived any of these comments since last Summer.
和服着て文化盗用って言ってる人は日本のこと何も知らん人だけよ
日本人から見たら微笑ましいことこの上ない
I will avoid insults to all the other things I saw in the video and just say that I liked the part about "Kobayashi liking tohru or not". Even if this entire video and part of the dub has weird feminist "things", the original phrase in that moment was kind of awful by implying that a woman can't love another women (which obviously could happen and isn't bad), so the dub version in this one seems much better to me, instead of implying that "women can't love woman!", it just says "Well, I don't like women", and both versions, like you said, have pretty much the same meaning and use in both version, which is just making Tohru shut up and calm down. So, sure, great job there
Thank you!!! It's so silly that Kobayashi is brought up when almost the entire script is translated really well and keeps the meaning.
Honestly i'm gonna watch the Kobayashi dub just cause of that line im in love with it
😂
Sometimes I think "hey im not THAT shitty with faces" but it took a rewatch of this video a few weeks after familiarizing myself with your content for me to realize that "Translator with glasses" and "Pink haired feminist" are the same goddamn person 😭
Anyways I really enjoyed tbis video both times, even moreso after above mentioned world shattering revelation
THIS VIDEO IS GOLDEN SARAH I LOVE YOU - YOU MADE ME SMILE AND LAUGH SO MANY TIMES OVER THIS HOUR! SENDING LOVE TO YOU, COMRADE !!!
This is a joke right?
I dint think it is
I was thinking the same thing...but sadly it isn't
Regardless of what anyone says, the video was extremely well done! The amount of work and planning that went into this must have been enormous! (^o^)
Regarding your points, I do agree with most of them, especially the cultural appropriation one. For a dub line that must match the lip flaps, that's a damn good one. As you mentioned, translation is all a subjective interpretation of what the original creator's intention is. Especially when it comes to Japanese where the subjects, pronouns, etc... are often left unspoken or ambiguous. That being said, I do feel that many translators (both fan and professional) tend to want to push the envelope instead of playing it safe, especially when it comes to the non-plot-essential lines like jokes. Of course, I'm only speaking in generalities as most lines have to be tackled on a case-by-case basis. It's just that, many times, I myself have fallen into the ego trap of thinking to myself, "I can write a much better line than the original!" before pulling myself back and thinking, "Would the character say this?", "Does this make sense in the context of the work as a whole?", so on and so forth. But on top of that, I also do look at my own work from an audience's perspective. Have I written anything that would cause the average viewer to go "Wait a minute..."? What about the ardent fans? I'm perfectly aware that most fans don't know what's best for them (as condescending as that might sound), but in the end, I feel like the end product must strike a balance between all these factors as the fans are ultimately the ones who will be appreciating and enjoying the work. In the end, while I do agree that these non-plot-essential lines are well, not plot essential, they still go a long way in maintaining character continuity. If the lines are indeed that ambiguous, instead of going out of the way to write something that could potentially cause the audience some kind of dissonance and break immersion, perhaps it'd be better to go for something more mundane and cliché but yet still in keeping with the feel of the show.
Speaking of ambiguity, I'd actually like to ask your opinion/advice on how much or how often one should go about adding to the original Japanese dialogue in terms of making an assumption and filling in the blanks. I ask this because while there are many times where it would be plain weird and awkward to leave a line trailing like「私、先輩のことが…」(which I've rather proudly translated to "I can't keep lying to myself any longer!"), there are many other times where it seems that the line would best be served being left ambiguous for a multitude of reasons - having more impact, adding to the mystery and suspense, not wanting to come across as hand-holding the audience, etc...? A lot of times, I feel that some translators tend to overcompensate in this regard and leave nothing to the imagination, which does sometimes backfire either because they made a wrong judgement call or made the show's lines more clunky and unnatural. While no where near as often as in Japanese, we do leave a ton of things unspoken and implied in the English language as well.
Thanks so much for the amazing video once again and I do appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to all your comments! (^o^)
hooo-boy, the ambiguous trail-off with a pending kokuhaku-shiin........😂 I encounter lines like that a lot and depending on the character or context (I'll read ahead in the story if I can and see what happens later) I'll go with something like, "I've always...!" or "I think I'm in..." or, "I think I'm..." if the character really is trailing off and the other character doesn't fill in the blank. But if it's clear to the other character, I might finish the sentence with something less vague like, "I have feelings for you."
I really appreciated this video (no matter how old esp since its brought back to relevancy with the recent AI debacle and Asmongold)
One thing to note that you addressed in part is the broken "trust" It might be ONE bad joke but as you said most people(myself included; i definitely do not understand japanese to the level you do for sure, but can pickup on some minor surface level stuff, not to mention lviing in an asian country and hence picking up on inflections or intonations that signal certain intent maybe abit better as well) do not understand japanese, but what you didn;t say outright and likely something you know is that once that trust is broken, its (at least) 1000000 times harder to gain it back, which i guess is what we're seeing mostly now)
Other than the very (imho) slightly off-putting translation of the dragon maid dub. I think the main issue is her responses have been nothing short of unprofessional.
I can maybe understand it with all the vitriol shes faced/facing. However it still stands that its been mostly unprofessional no matter how you cut it. and thats really what hurts you guys in general (im a sub person)
Overall Thanks once again for breaking iit down and giving me more knowledge/ insight into theis whole thing, but i do hope you;re able to plead with your colleagues to maybe be more professional in ahndling the (admittedly very loud) outcry.
>I think the main issue is her responses have been nothing short of unprofessional.
She is not a maid dude nor works in customer service, she has every right to snap back at harassers. Its not like people who are going after her care about dubs or dragon maid, they are culture warriors. The people who are fans already said everything and gave feedback years ago. Its a over 6 years old 1 line. Anyone trying to use that to demonstrate a problem is not doing it in good faith.
@@Frozenkex she's not a maid nor customer service you're right. But what she is is a public figure (whether she likes it or not) and these are some things you have to deal with. Additionally what I brought up (professionalism) isnt for her old response but rather her most recent one towards asmongold. Even if I wanted to show empathy. I'm sure as heck won't be as willing to give it to a seemingly nasty person.
One more thing to note (and partly why im okay with the old accusations being brought up) is due to the fact this mostly stemmed from them complaining about AI work (which let's be honest would have some level of human oversight and not completely AI done at the very least at the beginning)
Tldr I really don't think it's THAT big a deal (maid dragon translation) esp after watching this video. Whats an arguably a bigger stink is her attitude and response since way back to date which frankly is doing more harm than good to her case.
Asmongold is responsible for a lot of harassment she is getting by reacting to grifting channels like Rev's who just farm outrage and drama.
She didnt complain about AI work.
Also anyone who thinks she or other dub script writers are gonna be replaced by AI dont know anything about dubbing and are kind of delusional, and themselves dont like dubs. (so theyre not fans)
I can agree that for her its doing more bad than good, but she is justified to snap back at the haters. The people who say "she's attacking "the fans" " are disingenuous, since they are no such thing@@Ex14
@@Frozenkex i mean for the most part theyu did put a tweet out proclaiming ai is bad etc so if anything even they themselves think AI will take over their jobs somehow or other. so /shrugs
I mean from someone on the outside (frnakly with whats been presented EVEN after this video) I do feel she is acttacking the fans (hence why i mentioned her "unprofessionalism") hence my comment about doing my harm than good.
Anyway Im not here to try and get you "on my side" or whatever, Just wanted to explain where I'm coming from and considering im about to go iback in a circle i'll leave it here till something new comes up
Thinking AI bad =! it will take over your job
I dont think my job will be taken over by AI and i think its bad at the related things too and is not going to be replacing things. Why do you jump to conclusions?@@Ex14
I think you did a really good job of laying out your feelings about translators being targeted; harassment should not be tolerated. On the greater issues: we live in a country that is two separate places, and there will always be those people who chose to deny reality and distort it to fit their own narrative. I'm of the general opinion that our current form of government is incompatible with the continued development of the human race. The two party system and the increasing socioeconomic polarization are symptoms of capitalism, and we won't make progress until we actually begin to operate as a larger community. Thanks for saying what you mean. Many youtubers are wishy-washy and won't even hint at politics, so I respect that you speak your mind in a non-sensationalized way.
The transition during 36:00 to 36:40 had me shook.
Sipport me!
This video was a bit more nuanced than I thought, and I'm glad to see someone having a bit more of an objective/neutral stance on the issues. (Before anyone jumps to conclusions with what I am about to say I also kinda consider myself a leftist).
Personally, the patriarchy joke made me mad because you're putting in your own political stance into someone else's work. I mean imagine if you wrote a fun, slice of life comedy that wasn't meant to be taken seriously and some translator with anti-leftist values made a racist or sexist joke in your work. You could argue with me and say "How do you know Coolkyousinnjya isn't a leftist?" My answer is that all of us will probably never know. We've never met the man, and sometimes without further context/information on the author you can't really tell what their beliefs or values are in the work that they make, so to put in your own beliefs into someone's else's work is disrespectful.
I'm also glad that you brought up about the behavior of the characters and the actual dialogue themselves as something to look at rather than focusing on the other trivial/unclear sutff, like for example, you've stated yourself that there isn't enough evidence let alone an episode to characterize Kobayashi's political stance (for the slut shaming part)
And the sub translation already existed because simuldubs always come out after the subbed version, so people were also expecting something closer to the subtitled version and not stuff about the Patriarchy. And that's one of the many reasons people hated that line, and not just that it was a politically charged line, it was a politically charged line where there wasn't one in the subtitles.