From retired building contractor. Nice job and analysis. I respect guys that are careful and take into consideration all variables, avoiding traps and doing free re-dos.
There is one exception to this rule. The cheap floating floor. If you jump on it hard enough on the end of a 12' room and it shifts the floor( because of the 1/4 expansion gap) it moves the toilet flange screws with it. if you do it enough times you get loose screws. Kind of like putting a breaker bar on a socket. If you want to keep the flange on top of the finished floor, cut a ring of the flooring to go under the flange separate from the rest of the floating floor.
I was told by a plumbing supply outfit (not Home Depot) that I should not have my new vinyl laminate lifeproof flooring under the flange, but around it. Reason being was because the floor can shift and move, and cause the finished flooring joints to crack or start to come apart. Much like you said. I removed the previous tile floor and backerboard, and will put a new subfloor down in the area of the toilet (wood is rotted out from leaking). So new subfloor will be lower than current toilet flange (which was too high to begin with). Wondering how low the cut in the copper drain pipe should be below the new subfloor, so the new flange sits well on that floor. I got a plastic Oatey 1 piece flange with a Proflex Fernco specifically made for transition from plastic to copper.
Thank for this clear explanation. There are so many confusing and contradicting videos. Your video gives the answer clearly with the why, so it's easy to remember!
THANK YOU SO MUCH I have been searching for wayyy too long to find this simple answer to whether the finished floor should go around or underneath the flange!
Yeah, this earned a like and subscribe. Thank you for being so thoughtful and helpful. Melted my anxiety and got me pumped to cut out this nasty cracked old flange and install the new one.
Thank you for the demonstration. I see too many contractors and so called experts putting the flange directly on the sub floor. I just watched a video of a tiling contractor show how to cut tile around a toilet flange and let everybody think it's okay to put the flange on the subfloor. It irks me. I'll cut slack if the flange was installed before you got to it though...
You may be saving my butt on this. I got my whole downstairs done with wood floor (paid contractors), including the guest toilet (no bath/shower), and a year or so later all the wood in the bathroom was bad. Ripped it out, redid it myself about 8 months ago and it’s bad again. I’ve pulled it several times, replaced the flange hardware like it was already, wax, etc, but never thought of this height difference. I don’t think the wood floor installers did it at the outside (it was tile in there). I’m about to redo the floor again, but will take this into consideration. Hopefully for the last time. (Yeah I don’t want to do wood floor anywhere near a toilet, but wife likes the look.)
The reason the Closet Flange may be screwed to the subfloor might be for the sake of keeping it in place +/- until it can be set permanently when the final finish flooring is on site and installed. People change there minds all the time about what the finish floor materials are going to be even during construction. You just backout the screws far enough to slip some shim under the flange when you know exactly how high the flange needs to be. Then you tighten up the plumbers tape for the drain line. It is more often than not intentional - the person installing the fixtures is not always the person doing the rough-in. It's not always because someone doesn't know how to do it.
Redoing a basement bathroom, removed the toilet, then flange is on top of the ceramic tile. But the toilet has always had a rock to it. It seems the flange should be level with the fished tile so the toilet will also sit flush with the floor?? The toilet is a Kohler brand and in the 12 years it has been there has never plugged up once 😮. I plan on cleaning up the bottom abd reinstall once the shower stall is done but think the flange still needs to be flush with finished floor? Thoughts?
Damn, I've watche/read about 10 articles and you're the first person to mention that the bottom of the toilet is suppose to marry into the closet flange. Goddamn lol, thanks for that, I wouldn't have known otherwise and it's been a thing in the back of my head as to the why the finished floor needs to be under the lip of the closet flange. Thank you very much, instant sub and like!
On top of finish floor. Got it. However I was wondering what orientation is correct of the flange. For example there is an open slot on both sides (across each other) and some holes (six) in most flanges. Should the slots be parallel to the to each other (perpendicular the front of the toilet)? Or slightly skewed so that the bolts are parallel to each other?
There are two slots where the Johni bolts need to go. Looking at the flange from the front of the toilet, the middle of the slots go into the 9 and 3 o'clock position.
My toilet bottom was leaking so here I am. After taking off toilet see that the flange that’s supposed to nailed / screwed down is all rusted through. It’s wooden floor and some is level ( the back ) while the front wood isn’t. It’s gone rotted though maybe a quarter inch. Can I still use as is and just get it with longest nails / screws I can find ?
You should check your toilet specifications also. This video is true for almost any standard American Toilet installs. However some one-piece and compact toilets require the toilet flange to be installed level with the finish floor.
If the flange is above the floor won't the flange be bearing the weight of the toilet? Plus, consider the weight of a person sitting on the toilet - there is quite a bit of torque on the flange. Shouldn't the floor bear the weight? Or, do you caulk or grout the perimeter?
So I'm redoing the floor in the bathroom. putting down new 5/8" plywood subfloor, than the same lifeproof flooring (the higher end stuff, 22ML wearlife) you show. I was at the local plumbing supply store (no, not Home depot), an actual plumbing supply store. They also are a plumbing contractor. The guy at the counter told me to put the flange sitting on the subfloor, not the finished floor because those floating floors will shift and cause the joints in the flooring the possibly crack or come apart. Right now a have a copper drain pipe for the toilet. he sold me an Oatey 1 piece plastic flange with a Proflex Furnco coupler, that one side is specifically sized for the plastic flange and the other is sized for the 3" copper drain pipe. he said it allows for some up and down differential to compensate for height. My question is, if I put the flange right on the subfloor, (and have the finished floor cut around the flange) where should I cut the copper drain pipe so Its a good height for the flange to sit flush on the subfloor? Thanks, great video
For this product, no, because moisture barrier is part of the flooring. But many floors do require an underlayment. The box will tell you if you need one or not. Add 30 to 50 per sq. ft. for underlayment.
My original floor was a thin linoleum, on ⅝" subfloor. We moved in, tore out the linoleum and paid a floor guy to install slate. He did the typical cut around the flange so it sits lower than the new floor surface. I bought a couple shims, screwed them to the flange, (which is getting weak, as indicated by my ability to twist the toilet even though the bolts are a couple turns past hand tight) then plopped the wax ring in there and finished up. There's no water coming out but, the looseness is driving my OCD nuts and knowing it wasn't done right, isn't helping. Do oversized flanges exist or, am I going to have to tear out the toilet and have those 4 tiles cut proper and replaced? If so, will a typical flange reach deep enough or do they make an extended flange that I can buy? 😭🤣😭
Thinking ahead and just in case, if I'm planning to screw down my flange to the finished floor, can I just using caulk (or nothing even) for the flange instead of PVC glue?
Hey James! Thank you for a great video. What do you do if the original pipe is cut flush with the sub floor and not the height of the finished tile? Do they sell an extended flange?
Not that I'm aware of, but you could check with Ferguson. If you only need a skosh you might be ok with the taper on the flange. Also, you can go into the basement, crawlspace or ceiling below and install new pipe as needed with a coupler or fernco to get the length/height you need.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass we are installing new tile in our bathroom. Would you recommend using something like an Oatey 1/4 In. PVC Flange Spacer instead of tearing out the old flange?
Since it’s a floating floor, do you screw down the flange to the floor or not? The guide I was looking at says to fastened the flange to the floor but I was wondering if it’s different for a floating floor.
Yes, the flange must be secured to floor using stainless oval head screws, usually #12. If the flange isn't fastened the toilet won't be fastened. Toilet is attached to the flange, which is attached to the floor. Note: many floating floor manufacturers say to never screw the flooring down, and while this is true in most cases, for toilets you must screw through floor into subfloor. The toilet is 80 pounds on on the floor anyway so it's not like the floor is going to have movement.
I wouldn’t. I would use some scrap flooring to provide a solid foundation at right height for the flange. Then add floating floor around that. But would probably stay away from floating floors in general for bathrooms.
Not sure I 100% agree with the 3/4 inch wood floor example. If the plan is to screw the toilet flange to the edges of custom cut wood flooring around the toilet, chances are that the wood would most likely split if using screws that close to the edge. The hardwood floor planks are designed to take cleat using a nailer gun , not screws. I have done wood flooring myself in my house and i have learned a lot by doing it myself. I am working on this exact example but am only “tucking” the wood flooring under the toilet - no screws. With your flooring, I can see your example working
You mean the hole? Close but too tight. 1/4" all around is fine. I foamed under also for air control. Don't make it so large your flange screws can't get purchase!
I just had tile installed in my bathroom. While re-installing the toilet, my flooring guy discovered the flange is not at all connected to... anything. It wasn't cemented in like it is in all the videos I've seen. Will I need to remove the new tile? Is this a huge, expensive problem?
Maybe. Maybe not. Tile repair is possible if you have matching tile and grout. You can cut out tiles, make flange and subfloor repairs and install new tile. You would need an experienced tile person because the devil's in the details of the finish: matching tile, matching grout, height, spacing, etc.
Quick and simple. Thanks. It means more work at the moment but if the previous installer (ahem*cough*me*cough) had done it right the first time I wouldn't be redoing it now.
I’m installing a floating floor as well. Do I screw the flange screws into the finish floor and into the sub floor?? I thought that may impede the “floating” aspect but the flange has to be screwed down. Thanks!
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass Thanks so much man! Is there a certain length of #12 flange screws you are supposed to use or is the ones that were in it originally fine? I think they are probably 2 inches long maybe.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass great! Is there a certain length I would need? Thanks for the help! I’m going into a 3/4” subfloor and probably same flooring thickness as you in this video.
So... How is the flange anchored? The toilet will be anchored to the flange and resting (?) on the floating floor or is the flange anchored through the floating floor. I am off to look for your next video that probably already answers this question Thank you for the video.
If tile is already cut around the flange... should I use another layer of 1/4" cement board to level it with the finished floor? I was told by the plumber to install it on the cement board, but not on top of the tile, which I guess is better than on the subfloor, but not ideal. Any input is welcome!
One easy way: 1) flip the toilet over so the bottom of the toilet faces up (easiest if you're installing a new toilet, before the tank goes on) 2) or turn the toilet on its side 3) put a straight edge across the bottom of the toilet and become aware of the spacing between the toilet's output drain connection and the straight edge We just installed a new HD-bought 'Glacier Bay' power flush toilet. The topmost edge of the existing toilet flange was flush, level, with the existing tile flooring. The flange had been installed in some amazingly stout manner, not to the tile, but to what ever was under it. The house is concrete slab, no crawlspace. No movement at all in that flange, which was cool, so we didn't have to replace it. We installed the new toilet on the existing flange 'as is.' The dang thing rocked back and forth. We had to use plastic shims (also bought at HD btw) to stop it from rocking. I listed the steps (1) through (3) above because that might have saved us from grief. Since the old toilet didn't leak, and only one wax ring had been used, we didn't bother to check anything. Next time, we'll be using those steps. My assumption here is that the new toilet's drain output port on its bottom IS NOT FLUSH with the bottom rim of the toilet base, but actually extends deeper towards the floor, as if that factory expected the flange to be lower than the flooring. Not sure though, we didn't check it. .
So you've now got a pipe cut flush with the subfloor, and you can't put the flange on until after tiling happens. So how/when do you pressure test? Don't you need the flange in (with a knockout) to pressure test?
The rough in was already passed long before this. The stub out is usually 6" off the subfloor w the test cap on for the test. The toilet install is considered finish work. It has to be there for the final walk thru, of course, but the pressure test is always done before. Also, the pipe is NOT flush w subfloor! That's my point. It's flush w the height of the finish floor.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass Looks like you guys are Contractors/ License plumbers..... ......The Plumbing Codes Must be changed and the Toilet Bowl also.... Why...??? PVC flange and other flanges are Not Strong enough to withstand the Roughness of the people... ...... Therefore.... Still 2-Holes for the Flange and Added 2-Holes for the bowl to Bolt it to the Floor to make Stronger and more durability..
@@Sralaineo- The bottom of the horn on all toilets is level with the bottom of the toilet’s perimter walls., with all weight borne by those perimiter walls.. So when bolted to a level floor, not sure how the toilet horn would adversely impact the flange. Maybe so if the toilet was really wobbly, but then other far mare adverse issues are going to enter the picture, (making excess pressure on the flange the least of your worries).
Good video and to the point. Too often you get lazy contractors that just slam the flange down on the concrete and don’t set the flange for the finished floor. Leading to sealing problems down the road as the wax ring fails.
Yes, but the type of glue you use depends on the type of flange you use. The white pvc uses a glue and primer, but abs style flanges use a simple abs cement glue, no primer.
But how do you secure the toilet flange to the floor? With screws? TrafficMaster directions say not to secure their vinyl plank down with any kind of fasteners so it can float.
@@jpjp3873 That's a good idea but what I'm going to end up doing is cutting all the way around to leave a quarter inch space between the flange and the flooring and I purchased some oatly ring spacers to space the flange up perfectly flush with the height of the floor.
You drill a hole in the tile about 30% larger than a #12 stainless steel screw. Also, porcelain is the best tile choice for bathrooms, kitchens and wet areas. I'd always choose it over ceramic
Thanks for the tip. I'm getting ready to plumb my mom's tiny house and I was going to do this before the new floor was done, but I'm going to do your method first 🥇. Makes sense 🙂. 👍
Dont you just hate when someone tells you in the middle of your work----its all making sense to you, right. Hey you dont know what your talking about thats not how it done. Some people have no respect for someones knowledge and true that its difficult to know who to trust. Some people actually think trust and skill is irrelevant and want it for free or harassing you. I notice with the ARMY that he must have had slavery...because no one works for free. People who work have to dislike the army just for the nothing and criticism the work treatment you get. We just do the best we can until we have/know better a trust worthy person is worth gold ! scary stuff....I really like your video and their maybe different ways to do stuff if you want to raise the pressure off the pipe, or you want some space off the pressure points.....it can always be re installed after 5+ years...thanks for the video !
Many ppl are here because they have a flange that is too low and was incorrectly set If so, use a flange extender. A bit easier than trying to reset the existing flange,
No. And that reasoning makes no sense. Just cut the flange off, use a machine tool for the drop pipe, replace the floor and reinstall the flange. If you're spending hours replacing a floor, you can spend 10 minutes replacing the flange. The only way to properly seal the toilet is with the flange on top the finished floor. It's literally in the instructions.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass With a slab foundation it's a lot more than 10 minutes to replace the flange since you have to excavate concrete to clearance space to expose more ABS pipe to install a coupling for a spigot flange . The Home Depot site says the twist-fit flanges that install on the inside of the pipe do not meet code. Too bad, that would be easy.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass I think he is asking whether you need to use PVC cement to bond the flange PVC to the PVC pipe. If you do, then, how do you get it off if you need to change the finished floor later on? Cut the entire flange off and have to redo all the piping just to change the finished floor?
Always put flange on top of finished floor if you dont mind shimming your toilet and then placing a big bead of caulking around the toilet to hide the gap. Otherwise place the flange level with or slightly (1/8") higher than finished floor so the toilet will sit flush on the finished floor.
Having the opposite problem, looks like my flange is too thick as the toilet now doubles as a rocking chair...? Also, it's mounted to the new subfloor..
It's mounted to the subfloor and it's still to high? Something is not right. If your finished floor goes around the flanged and it's still so high that your toilet rocks, go back and ask the plumber (or if you did it yourself, just go back) and inspect everything.
@@jamesglasscameraobscura1148 Yeah, it's weird. My mom's place, yeah she cant afford a plumber, but it ain't my first rodeo... It seems the new toilet's recess is less than the old... I replaced the rotted subfloor and mounted the original flange to it. Hard to say 100% what it was before as it was all rotted, though it was mounted to the original at some point. Looking at the install instructions it says the flange can be no taller than 1/2 in so, looks like I'll be installing a new flange too. Will keep your tips in mind, ill at least add a spacer the height of the finished flooring. Won't be installing the finish floor for a bit, and we need a commode... X ) Thanks for the reply.
No. It is literally made for bathrooms and kitchens. Here's the link to product info. Why do you think it's waterproof? For the shower in your living room? www.homedepot.com/p/Lifeproof-Sterling-Oak-8-7-in-W-x-47-6-in-L-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-20-06-sq-ft-case-I966106L/300699284#overlay
you're going to run screws to anchor the flange into your floating floor, then sub-floor if you do it that way, which is incorrect and will cause problems. "LifeProof Vinyl Plank is a floating floor and should be allowed to expand and contract freely. It must not be glued, nailed, or fastened to the subfloor in any way. Permanent cabinets, vanities, islands and similar items should be installed first. Then, install LifeProof Vinyl Plank around them, leaving the proper expansion gap. LifeProof Vinyl Plank can be installed under vanities with legs. LifeProof Vinyl Plank can be installed under toilets; leave proper expansion space around the flange and use a premium waterproof 100% silicone caulk. Do not anchor toilet through the material."
I've read the info sheet too. You're technically correct. But, think about it: the toilet weighs 80 pounds. It's so heavy that the floor isn't floating anyway. There have been zero issues anchoring thru lvp in the last decade. If one was really paranoid, you could anchor thru lvp, then route a 1/4" around the flange to separate anchored lvp from rest of floor. But with the weight of the toilet, it hardly matters. Either way, flange must go on top.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass No. You're reasoning is flawed. The weight of the toilet has nothing to do with expansion and contraction of material. It should be afforded to move the way it was designed regardless of what you're application might be. Think about putting a plank floor in a living room. You wouldn't bolt your couch through the floating plank floor to secure it to the ground and prevent it from moving. It weighs more than 80 lbs. The manufacturer put these warnings out for a reason. I'm happy you haven't had issues, but don't try and say that following manufacturer guidelines on a product they probably spent millions developing is being "paranoid." They literally, before releasing this product, tested and found that enough reason existed to have a technical document writer call out: "DO NOT ANCHOR TOILET THROUGH THE MATERIAL". Eh, but what do they know. Finally, to respond to "either way, the flange must go on top"... No, no it doesn't. Your flange can be secured directly to your subfloor and then you can cut your LVP around the flange with more than enough clearance to satisfy the gap requirement while at the same time being completely covered by the toilet base. That's how I did it at least, and it worked out great. You should probably change the name of the title on this video to "Incorrect toilet flange installation, but it works anyway for me so far".
The jibber-jabber is the difference between an average job and a great job--the devil is in the details. Jibber-jabber helps you understand the "why" with the "how". Why do some toilet flanges fail after a few years and why do some last a lifetime? Jibber-jabber is why. If you don't understand building science, you're just screwed. You're just an automaton mimicking a craftsman. Plus, if you're attention span is so short you can't take 2 minutes to understand why the flange goes on top, you have problems that go beyond plumbing.
From retired building contractor. Nice job and analysis. I respect guys that are careful and take into consideration all variables, avoiding traps and doing free re-dos.
Thanks for the quick simple explanation. I must have watched 10 others trying to find the right way. Yours was by far the best. Ty!
There is one exception to this rule. The cheap floating floor. If you jump on it hard enough on the end of a 12' room and it shifts the floor( because of the 1/4 expansion gap) it moves the toilet flange screws with it. if you do it enough times you get loose screws. Kind of like putting a breaker bar on a socket. If you want to keep the flange on top of the finished floor, cut a ring of the flooring to go under the flange separate from the rest of the floating floor.
That’s what sal the tile guy recommends too: ruclips.net/video/XVS-2vAKQFc/видео.html
Expansion gap for plastic? That’s just got wood
I was told by a plumbing supply outfit (not Home Depot) that I should not have my new vinyl laminate lifeproof flooring under the flange, but around it. Reason being was because the floor can shift and move, and cause the finished flooring joints to crack or start to come apart. Much like you said. I removed the previous tile floor and backerboard, and will put a new subfloor down in the area of the toilet (wood is rotted out from leaking). So new subfloor will be lower than current toilet flange (which was too high to begin with). Wondering how low the cut in the copper drain pipe should be below the new subfloor, so the new flange sits well on that floor. I got a plastic Oatey 1 piece flange with a Proflex Fernco specifically made for transition from plastic to copper.
Thank for this clear explanation. There are so many confusing and contradicting videos. Your video gives the answer clearly with the why, so it's easy to remember!
THANK YOU SO MUCH I have been searching for wayyy too long to find this simple answer to whether the finished floor should go around or underneath the flange!
Yeah, this earned a like and subscribe. Thank you for being so thoughtful and helpful. Melted my anxiety and got me pumped to cut out this nasty cracked old flange and install the new one.
Perfect! Very concise and super helpful.
Thank you! You demonstrated exactly what i wanted to know! Great to-the-point video!
Great explanation and very helpful. Thanks!
Very helpful info and thanks for the metric measurement description. I can understand better that way.
Excellent point and that's the correct way it's done you did a great job of explaining why..
Now this was an excellent demo. Thanks.
Awesome explanation. I didn’t realize a couple of small points you made clear.
Excellent ! You are a great teacher.
Thanks! I have to set my piping to match the level of the concrete plus the 1/4” tile I’m going to put in. Thanks for the video! It was helpful
I'm at that stage right now. Did your planning work out well?
Quick, concise, thanks for the information.
Excellent video! One of the most articulately explaned videos i've seen!
Thank you for the demonstration. I see too many contractors and so called experts putting the flange directly on the sub floor. I just watched a video of a tiling contractor show how to cut tile around a toilet flange and let everybody think it's okay to put the flange on the subfloor. It irks me. I'll cut slack if the flange was installed before you got to it though...
Also, I plan to glue FRP board directly onto of my subfloor, do you think it will work in place of the shower pan in my wet bath?
You may be saving my butt on this. I got my whole downstairs done with wood floor (paid contractors), including the guest toilet (no bath/shower), and a year or so later all the wood in the bathroom was bad. Ripped it out, redid it myself about 8 months ago and it’s bad again. I’ve pulled it several times, replaced the flange hardware like it was already, wax, etc, but never thought of this height difference. I don’t think the wood floor installers did it at the outside (it was tile in there).
I’m about to redo the floor again, but will take this into consideration. Hopefully for the last time. (Yeah I don’t want to do wood floor anywhere near a toilet, but wife likes the look.)
Did it fix it?
Something so simple but done wrong a lot. Thanks for a straight forward video.
The reason the Closet Flange may be screwed to the subfloor might be for the sake of keeping it in place +/- until it can be set permanently when the final finish flooring is on site and installed. People change there minds all the time about what the finish floor materials are going to be even during construction. You just backout the screws far enough to slip some shim under the flange when you know exactly how high the flange needs to be. Then you tighten up the plumbers tape for the drain line. It is more often than not intentional - the person installing the fixtures is not always the person doing the rough-in. It's not always because someone doesn't know how to do it.
Redoing a basement bathroom, removed the toilet, then flange is on top of the ceramic tile. But the toilet has always had a rock to it. It seems the flange should be level with the fished tile so the toilet will also sit flush with the floor?? The toilet is a Kohler brand and in the 12 years it has been there has never plugged up once 😮. I plan on cleaning up the bottom abd reinstall once the shower stall is done but think the flange still needs to be flush with finished floor? Thoughts?
Simple question, simply answered, thanks!
excellent information. I do have a question...
is it possible to change the direction of a current toilet without much work. change of flange etc
Damn, I've watche/read about 10 articles and you're the first person to mention that the bottom of the toilet is suppose to marry into the closet flange. Goddamn lol, thanks for that, I wouldn't have known otherwise and it's been a thing in the back of my head as to the why the finished floor needs to be under the lip of the closet flange. Thank you very much, instant sub and like!
Why do I see some flanges above the floor and some level with the floor ?
What size hole saw should I use to set the flange in?
Do we glue it and purple prime like other pvc??
On top of finish floor. Got it. However I was wondering what orientation is correct of the flange. For example there is an open slot on both sides (across each other) and some holes (six) in most flanges. Should the slots be parallel to the to each other (perpendicular the front of the toilet)? Or slightly skewed so that the bolts are parallel to each other?
There are two slots where the Johni bolts need to go. Looking at the flange from the front of the toilet, the middle of the slots go into the 9 and 3 o'clock position.
Knowledge filled video thanks and GOD BLESS
My toilet bottom was leaking so here I am. After taking off toilet see that the flange that’s supposed to nailed / screwed down is all rusted through. It’s wooden floor and some is level ( the back ) while the front wood isn’t. It’s gone rotted though maybe a quarter inch. Can I still use as is and just get it with longest nails / screws I can find ?
so i gotta wait till i finish the floor before installing flange??? also once i put down my 2x8s for the floor what do i do next?? underlayment??
Nice job, great video
You should check your toilet specifications also. This video is true for almost any standard American Toilet installs. However some one-piece and compact toilets require the toilet flange to be installed level with the finish floor.
If the flange is above the floor won't the flange be bearing the weight of the toilet? Plus, consider the weight of a person sitting on the toilet - there is quite a bit of torque on the flange. Shouldn't the floor bear the weight? Or, do you caulk or grout the perimeter?
So I'm redoing the floor in the bathroom. putting down new 5/8" plywood subfloor, than the same lifeproof flooring (the higher end stuff, 22ML wearlife) you show. I was at the local plumbing supply store (no, not Home depot), an actual plumbing supply store. They also are a plumbing contractor. The guy at the counter told me to put the flange sitting on the subfloor, not the finished floor because those floating floors will shift and cause the joints in the flooring the possibly crack or come apart. Right now a have a copper drain pipe for the toilet. he sold me an Oatey 1 piece plastic flange with a Proflex Furnco coupler, that one side is specifically sized for the plastic flange and the other is sized for the 3" copper drain pipe. he said it allows for some up and down differential to compensate for height. My question is, if I put the flange right on the subfloor, (and have the finished floor cut around the flange) where should I cut the copper drain pipe so Its a good height for the flange to sit flush on the subfloor? Thanks, great video
Thank you....good advice....rock & roll.
concrete floor that is breaking up around a cast iron drain pipe???
My luxury vinyl plank flooring specifically states to avoid placing under the flange. May want to just refer to your specific flooring installation.
Can your click lock flooring go right over the subfloor? Or do you need a waterproof underlayment or coating?
For this product, no, because moisture barrier is part of the flooring. But many floors do require an underlayment. The box will tell you if you need one or not. Add 30 to 50 per sq. ft. for underlayment.
My original floor was a thin linoleum, on ⅝" subfloor. We moved in, tore out the linoleum and paid a floor guy to install slate. He did the typical cut around the flange so it sits lower than the new floor surface. I bought a couple shims, screwed them to the flange, (which is getting weak, as indicated by my ability to twist the toilet even though the bolts are a couple turns past hand tight) then plopped the wax ring in there and finished up.
There's no water coming out but, the looseness is driving my OCD nuts and knowing it wasn't done right, isn't helping. Do oversized flanges exist or, am I going to have to tear out the toilet and have those 4 tiles cut proper and replaced? If so, will a typical flange reach deep enough or do they make an extended flange that I can buy? 😭🤣😭
ruclips.net/video/8wCUoQGR39g/видео.html
Thinking ahead and just in case, if I'm planning to screw down my flange to the finished floor, can I just using caulk (or nothing even) for the flange instead of PVC glue?
You'll need pvc cement for fluid seal and #12 stainless screws for flange
Hey James! Thank you for a great video. What do you do if the original pipe is cut flush with the sub floor and not the height of the finished tile? Do they sell an extended flange?
Not that I'm aware of, but you could check with Ferguson. If you only need a skosh you might be ok with the taper on the flange. Also, you can go into the basement, crawlspace or ceiling below and install new pipe as needed with a coupler or fernco to get the length/height you need.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass we are installing new tile in our bathroom. Would you recommend using something like an Oatey 1/4 In. PVC Flange Spacer instead of tearing out the old flange?
@@danolson8790 The Oatey Flange extender might work. It's worth a dry fit to see.
Is it a 3 or 4 inches pipe, you can use a flange the goes inside the pipe.
Since it’s a floating floor, do you screw down the flange to the floor or not? The guide I was looking at says to fastened the flange to the floor but I was wondering if it’s different for a floating floor.
Yes, the flange must be secured to floor using stainless oval head screws, usually #12. If the flange isn't fastened the toilet won't be fastened. Toilet is attached to the flange, which is attached to the floor. Note: many floating floor manufacturers say to never screw the flooring down, and while this is true in most cases, for toilets you must screw through floor into subfloor. The toilet is 80 pounds on on the floor anyway so it's not like the floor is going to have movement.
I wouldn’t. I would use some scrap flooring to provide a solid foundation at right height for the flange. Then add floating floor around that. But would probably stay away from floating floors in general for bathrooms.
Not sure I 100% agree with the 3/4 inch wood floor example.
If the plan is to screw the toilet flange to the edges of custom cut wood flooring around the toilet, chances are that the wood would most likely split if using screws that close to the edge. The hardwood floor planks are designed to take cleat using a nailer gun , not screws.
I have done wood flooring myself in my house and i have learned a lot by doing it myself. I am working on this exact example but am only “tucking” the wood flooring under the toilet - no screws.
With your flooring, I can see your example working
How close should the subfloor be cut from the pipe? Is it a 1/4 in?
You mean the hole? Close but too tight. 1/4" all around is fine. I foamed under also for air control. Don't make it so large your flange screws can't get purchase!
I just had tile installed in my bathroom. While re-installing the toilet, my flooring guy discovered the flange is not at all connected to... anything. It wasn't cemented in like it is in all the videos I've seen. Will I need to remove the new tile? Is this a huge, expensive problem?
Maybe. Maybe not. Tile repair is possible if you have matching tile and grout. You can cut out tiles, make flange and subfloor repairs and install new tile. You would need an experienced tile person because the devil's in the details of the finish: matching tile, matching grout, height, spacing, etc.
Good job!
Quick and simple. Thanks. It means more work at the moment but if the previous installer (ahem*cough*me*cough) had done it right the first time I wouldn't be redoing it now.
Good job
Awesome!
I’m installing a floating floor as well. Do I screw the flange screws into the finish floor and into the sub floor?? I thought that may impede the “floating” aspect but the flange has to be screwed down. Thanks!
Yes. There's still ample float.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass Thanks so much man! Is there a certain length of #12 flange screws you are supposed to use or is the ones that were in it originally fine? I think they are probably 2 inches long maybe.
@@kccreations5945 #12 stainless oval head
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass great! Is there a certain length I would need? Thanks for the help! I’m going into a 3/4” subfloor and probably same flooring thickness as you in this video.
@@kccreations5945 My subfloor is 1.5 inches but normally it's 3/4". Just get something long enough to grab all your subfloor, say 1.5"
So... How is the flange anchored?
The toilet will be anchored to the flange and resting (?) on the floating floor or is the flange anchored through the floating floor.
I am off to look for your next video that probably already answers this question
Thank you for the video.
#12 stainless screws into subfloor. It's fine the floor won't technically float there. There's plenty of room for movement.
If tile is already cut around the flange... should I use another layer of 1/4" cement board to level it with the finished floor? I was told by the plumber to install it on the cement board, but not on top of the tile, which I guess is better than on the subfloor, but not ideal. Any input is welcome!
Can you get a ok seal with your model toilet without using 2 wax rings? If yes, then roll.
Is there a good way to know that without installing the toilet?
@@danielrosborne No, but it's only 15 minutes and a wax ring to find out.
Okay, thanks!
One easy way:
1) flip the toilet over so the bottom of the toilet faces up (easiest if you're installing a new toilet, before the tank goes on)
2) or turn the toilet on its side
3) put a straight edge across the bottom of the toilet and become aware of the spacing between the toilet's output drain connection and the straight edge
We just installed a new HD-bought 'Glacier Bay' power flush toilet. The topmost edge of the existing toilet flange was flush, level, with the existing tile flooring. The flange had been installed in some amazingly stout manner, not to the tile, but to what ever was under it. The house is concrete slab, no crawlspace. No movement at all in that flange, which was cool, so we didn't have to replace it.
We installed the new toilet on the existing flange 'as is.' The dang thing rocked back and forth. We had to use plastic shims (also bought at HD btw) to stop it from rocking.
I listed the steps (1) through (3) above because that might have saved us from grief. Since the old toilet didn't leak, and only one wax ring had been used, we didn't bother to check anything. Next time, we'll be using those steps.
My assumption here is that the new toilet's drain output port on its bottom IS NOT FLUSH with the bottom rim of the toilet base, but actually extends deeper towards the floor, as if that factory expected the flange to be lower than the flooring. Not sure though, we didn't check it.
.
So you've now got a pipe cut flush with the subfloor, and you can't put the flange on until after tiling happens. So how/when do you pressure test? Don't you need the flange in (with a knockout) to pressure test?
The rough in was already passed long before this. The stub out is usually 6" off the subfloor w the test cap on for the test. The toilet install is considered finish work. It has to be there for the final walk thru, of course, but the pressure test is always done before.
Also, the pipe is NOT flush w subfloor! That's my point. It's flush w the height of the finish floor.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass Looks like you guys are Contractors/ License plumbers.....
......The Plumbing Codes Must be changed and the Toilet Bowl also.... Why...??? PVC flange and other flanges are Not Strong enough to withstand the Roughness of the people...
...... Therefore.... Still 2-Holes for the Flange and Added 2-Holes for the bowl to Bolt it to the Floor to make Stronger and more durability..
@@Sralaineo- The bottom of the horn on all toilets is level with the bottom of the toilet’s perimter walls., with all weight borne by those perimiter walls.. So when bolted to a level floor, not sure how the toilet horn would adversely impact the flange. Maybe so if the toilet was really wobbly, but then other far mare adverse issues are going to enter the picture, (making excess pressure on the flange the least of your worries).
Finally! Someone with some brains.
Good video and to the point. Too often you get lazy contractors that just slam the flange down on the concrete and don’t set the flange for the finished floor. Leading to sealing problems down the road as the wax ring fails.
What kind of flange is this? Does this sit inside a 3in pipe.
You can use a 3" pipe. In this case, I used 4" to a 4x3 closet bend. I like a nice airy drop.
thx boss!
Do you have to put glue on tbe flage?
Yes. Primer and cement (glue).
Yes, but the type of glue you use depends on the type of flange you use. The white pvc uses a glue and primer, but abs style flanges use a simple abs cement glue, no primer.
But how do you secure the toilet flange to the floor? With screws? TrafficMaster directions say not to secure their vinyl plank down with any kind of fasteners so it can float.
Mark where screws will go and drill a 3/4” hole in the vinyl plank so the screws won’t hold the floor.
@@jpjp3873 That's a good idea but what I'm going to end up doing is cutting all the way around to leave a quarter inch space between the flange and the flooring and I purchased some oatly ring spacers to space the flange up perfectly flush with the height of the floor.
What if your going over ceramic tile, can't just screw into tile
You drill a hole in the tile about 30% larger than a #12 stainless steel screw. Also, porcelain is the best tile choice for bathrooms, kitchens and wet areas. I'd always choose it over ceramic
Thanks for the tip. I'm getting ready to plumb my mom's tiny house and I was going to do this before the new floor was done, but I'm going to do your method first 🥇. Makes sense 🙂. 👍
Do you play yugioh?
Dont you just hate when someone tells you in the middle of your work----its all making sense to you, right. Hey you dont know what your talking about thats not how it done. Some people have no respect for someones knowledge and true that its difficult to know who to trust. Some people actually think trust and skill is irrelevant and want it for free or harassing you. I notice with the ARMY that he must have had slavery...because no one works for free. People who work have to dislike the army just for the nothing and criticism the work treatment you get. We just do the best we can until we have/know better a trust worthy person is worth gold ! scary stuff....I really like your video and their maybe different ways to do stuff if you want to raise the pressure off the pipe, or you want some space off the pressure points.....it can always be re installed after 5+ years...thanks for the video !
Many ppl are here because they have a flange that is too low and was incorrectly set If so, use a flange extender. A bit easier than trying to reset the existing flange,
If you put a flange on top of the floor, good luck replacing the floor in the future. The floor should go around the flange
No. And that reasoning makes no sense. Just cut the flange off, use a machine tool for the drop pipe, replace the floor and reinstall the flange. If you're spending hours replacing a floor, you can spend 10 minutes replacing the flange. The only way to properly seal the toilet is with the flange on top the finished floor. It's literally in the instructions.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass With a slab foundation it's a lot more than 10 minutes to replace the flange since you have to excavate concrete to clearance space to expose more ABS pipe to install a coupling for a spigot flange . The Home Depot site says the twist-fit flanges that install on the inside of the pipe do not meet code. Too bad, that would be easy.
Putting that toilet flange like that can cause your toilet to rock being unleveled
East explanation on RUclips. Wtf you’d think more people would mention the importance of sitting on the finished floor.
Video description says flange goes on top of subfloor! Video says it goes on top of finish floor. Video description contradicts the video.
The flange will be water tight ?! You don’t need a seal or glue
You use a wax ring or modern equivalent. I like wax rings.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass I think he is asking whether you need to use PVC cement to bond the flange PVC to the PVC pipe. If you do, then, how do you get it off if you need to change the finished floor later on? Cut the entire flange off and have to redo all the piping just to change the finished floor?
So, flange goes into the drain pipe.
Yes.
James, thank you!
Always put flange on top of finished floor if you dont mind shimming your toilet and then placing a big bead of caulking around the toilet to hide the gap. Otherwise place the flange level with or slightly (1/8") higher than finished floor so the toilet will sit flush on the finished floor.
Don't you mean put the flange on the SUBFLOOR if you want the toilet FLUSH on the finished floor with no caulking ?
@@captainedc ya I think we're talking about the same thing. Thoughts?
Having the opposite problem, looks like my flange is too thick as the toilet now doubles as a rocking chair...? Also, it's mounted to the new subfloor..
It's mounted to the subfloor and it's still to high? Something is not right. If your finished floor goes around the flanged and it's still so high that your toilet rocks, go back and ask the plumber (or if you did it yourself, just go back) and inspect everything.
@@jamesglasscameraobscura1148 Yeah, it's weird. My mom's place, yeah she cant afford a plumber, but it ain't my first rodeo... It seems the new toilet's recess is less than the old... I replaced the rotted subfloor and mounted the original flange to it. Hard to say 100% what it was before as it was all rotted, though it was mounted to the original at some point. Looking at the install instructions it says the flange can be no taller than 1/2 in so, looks like I'll be installing a new flange too. Will keep your tips in mind, ill at least add a spacer the height of the finished flooring. Won't be installing the finish floor for a bit, and we need a commode... X ) Thanks for the reply.
@@jamesglasscameraobscura1148 Sorry, 1/2 in above the subfloor, I meant.
3/4" hardwood in a toilet? Eeewwwwww!!!!
You get spacers this is bs
a floating floor in a bathroom ????
wrong !
No. It is literally made for bathrooms and kitchens. Here's the link to product info. Why do you think it's waterproof? For the shower in your living room?
www.homedepot.com/p/Lifeproof-Sterling-Oak-8-7-in-W-x-47-6-in-L-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-20-06-sq-ft-case-I966106L/300699284#overlay
you're going to run screws to anchor the flange into your floating floor, then sub-floor if you do it that way, which is incorrect and will cause problems.
"LifeProof Vinyl Plank is a floating floor and should be allowed to expand and contract freely. It must
not be glued, nailed, or fastened to the subfloor in any way. Permanent cabinets, vanities, islands and
similar items should be installed first. Then, install LifeProof Vinyl Plank around them, leaving the proper
expansion gap. LifeProof Vinyl Plank can be installed under vanities with legs. LifeProof Vinyl Plank can
be installed under toilets; leave proper expansion space around the flange and use a premium waterproof
100% silicone caulk. Do not anchor toilet through the material."
I've read the info sheet too. You're technically correct. But, think about it: the toilet weighs 80 pounds. It's so heavy that the floor isn't floating anyway.
There have been zero issues anchoring thru lvp in the last decade. If one was really paranoid, you could anchor thru lvp, then route a 1/4" around the flange to separate anchored lvp from rest of floor. But with the weight of the toilet, it hardly matters. Either way, flange must go on top.
@@JamesGlassJamesGlass No. You're reasoning is flawed. The weight of the toilet has nothing to do with expansion and contraction of material. It should be afforded to move the way it was designed regardless of what you're application might be. Think about putting a plank floor in a living room. You wouldn't bolt your couch through the floating plank floor to secure it to the ground and prevent it from moving. It weighs more than 80 lbs. The manufacturer put these warnings out for a reason. I'm happy you haven't had issues, but don't try and say that following manufacturer guidelines on a product they probably spent millions developing is being "paranoid."
They literally, before releasing this product, tested and found that enough reason existed to have a technical document writer call out: "DO NOT ANCHOR TOILET THROUGH THE MATERIAL". Eh, but what do they know.
Finally, to respond to "either way, the flange must go on top"... No, no it doesn't. Your flange can be secured directly to your subfloor and then you can cut your LVP around the flange with more than enough clearance to satisfy the gap requirement while at the same time being completely covered by the toilet base. That's how I did it at least, and it worked out great. You should probably change the name of the title on this video to "Incorrect toilet flange installation, but it works anyway for me so far".
Can you possibly talk any more and provide any less information...
The amount of jibber-jabber and side comments are painful, just get to the job, please!
The jibber-jabber is the difference between an average job and a great job--the devil is in the details. Jibber-jabber helps you understand the "why" with the "how". Why do some toilet flanges fail after a few years and why do some last a lifetime? Jibber-jabber is why. If you don't understand building science, you're just screwed. You're just an automaton mimicking a craftsman. Plus, if you're attention span is so short you can't take 2 minutes to understand why the flange goes on top, you have problems that go beyond plumbing.
So if you don't have the money for the finish floor and need a toilet shim it up to finish floor height
Goes on the subfloor? You cut a Ring around it? Why would you want the flange on floating vinyl? No