I like the test but you can see the acrylic is bending which won’t be a good seal so something stiffer would have been a better test for both in my opinion
I agree. I am no plumber by but I use these in all my toilets at the apartments I work at as I go. Somewhere around 100 toilets it’s the past 4 years I’ve had one instance where I couldn’t use one. Time saved is massive. Between cleanup and not scrapping the old ring off. It’s so much easier to do and they work. When you have a proper seal I believe they are better. Just make sure you gasket flange isn’t broken.
@@johndorian4078 yes, the floor may have bends but the seal doesn't touch the floor so it has no influence. The weak point of this test is the acrylic sheet used on the end. It is clearly not as stiff as a toilet bottom and is skewing the results. I've used both and after the first no wax seal you couldn't pay me to go back to wax. The toilet in my current house had a wax seal that was leaking so I replaced it and within months it was leaking again. Switched to a no wax seal and it hasn't leaked in 25 years now and that includes having removed the toilet once to redo the floor and and another time to gain access to the space behind the toilet for painting. Never had a drip or an odor of sewer gases leak through it.
My buddy is a GC and I helped him set with the blue one, also installed the blue one in my house. No issues, no sewer gas. Makes me more likely to upgrade my toilet because I don't have to deal with the wax next time.
When I did apartment maintenance, I switched over to the better then wax. Worked well for me. I like that there is no wax to clean up. Other bonus, it can be reused incase you set the toilet down off center.
Exactly. If you accidentally set the toilet down wrong. You just move it with a rubber seal. With wax.....you have miserable cleanup on your hands if you have degraded the wax to the point that the entire thing needs to be replaced.
I do apartment maintenance and use the neoprene seals instead of wax. Our buildings are old and I have had to deal with several leaking wax rings. Once a wax ring looses it's seal and gets wet it doesn't tend to reseal, the neoprene rings will reseal. That is the big advantage for me.
@@drmodestoesq ~ Landlord and I installed a new lo-flow toilet upstairs and used the neoprene seal. That was probably 8 or so years ago and still no leak and it is nice not to be concerned about incorrect placement wrecking the wax ring.
When I moved into my house I swapped out 3 toilets the Wax rings were not my friend I tried the Better than Wax without zero issue. My dad swore by the wax ring until I showed him the better than wax for ease of use and clean install it’s my preference. That being said I’m just a homeowner I know both methods work.
I'm a licensed plumber in New Mexico and I've done service work for 6 years. now I'm in a maintenance position for an apartment complex. Since the first time I tried "Better Than Wax" five years ago, I decided that I was never going back to wax. I've installed hundreds of the foam/rubber ring seals and I've never gotten a call-back or experienced any type of issue related to a toilet I've set using that product. Two things I swear by: "Better Than Wax" and siliconized acrylic caulking in place traditional plumber's putty or for any instance requiring a sanitary seal. This type of caulking is the easiest to use and clean up because, prior to setting up and curing, it's water soluble - just takes a damp rag and washes right off hands and tools. It's also safe on drains because it just dissolves in water on clean up. Once it's set and cured (think basket strainer or disposal adapter installation in a kitchen sink basin) it holds it's seal very well and stays worlds cleaner than putty could ever be capable of.
@@WalrusMcDonald12n2na2The siliconized acrylic caulk works great for sink rims and sealing gaps in wood trim before painting. Alex Plus is one brand I use but others also work well.
I've set thousands of toilets in my life with no issue and wax. But I always insist on getting that WC flange bolted to the top of the floor like it should be. You're starting behind the eight ball if it's too high or below the floor surface. I see new installs all the time where they set a knock-out flange in the subfloor before the floor people have finished. I can only assume they do that so they can get their water/air test done for the inspector. Putting a rubber test plug in the stub-up pipe I guess is too complicated. And....use the next size pipe around your stub-up so you can come back later and set your flange. I do agree on the siliconized sealer though or 100% silicone. Those Hercules wipes will easily remove any silicone residue....and even denatured alcohol will work. I haven't used plumber's putty for yrs now....just sits in the truck. Nothing wrong with it, it's just that silicone and siliconized caulk are so much better.
@TheReal1953 I'm sure there have been plenty of issues. You just weren't called back for them. Rubber is way better. Not a big concern on a slab. But on pier and beam, especially a trailer house, with particle board floors. Often times the toilet will shift on those weak floors and disturb the wax ring after a few years causing a leak. Not so with rubber. I always use rubber seals because you are guaranteed a leak free install indefinetely. Also if they ever upgrade there is no need to buy a new ring. It's just better than wax.
@@mr.upcycle9589I always told customers to 'call me if there is a problem, not cuss me'. I have a good record, but not claiming I 'never' had callbacks. But they usually weren't toilet set issues unless the users were obese or the floor gave way for some structural reason. I'm not condemning rubber WC seals in any way. Just commenting that logically, one would abandon wax seals if they were a continuing issue. In my experience, they were not.
I've used the exact same Fluidmaster foam rings when I needed to do underlayment repairs under the toilets in our house. I've been pleased with the results. Note: That is a 2 piece system. You don't necessarily have to use both black & blue foam rings. The black piece is used if the flange is below floor level and additional seal is necessary. Really enjoy your videos & tips.
I really appreciate your comment. I didn't know if you had to use the foam rings. I tried once and the toilet wouldn't go all the way down, and I was afraid to torque the bolts too tight. I didn't use any foam ring. Was this okay?
@davegaetano7118 It depends on your flange. If it's level with the floor, rubber alone is fine. If it's up to ¼ inch below floor level, use the foam spacer.
@@davegaetano7118 You have to look at the instructions. The instructions will tell you that based on your flange height, you use or do not use the extra rings.
@@scottlyttle5586 It's been a good number of years since I've had to use the rubber one, but honestly I don't remember any instructions to that effect coming with it. Maybe the instructions have been expanded.
I'm an old guy, and after wrestling with replacing a wax ring today, I'm switching to rubber next time. These old knees have had five surgeries, and all the scar tissue across the face of the knee caps does NOT like kneeling on tile floors any more, and especially so if I kneel on a closet bolt or a nut. The tests are a great idea. Thank you for doing this. I'd like to see a couple of things changed on the tests, and see if you have a revised reaction. The pressure gauge should be moved to the pressure chamber. Right now, it is only reading the pressure in the hose. There is a large pressure drop across the Schrader valve when you are pumping, which masks your results. The other thing, is that if you use another metal ring or even a PVC flange over the acrylic plate, you would have even pressure around the whole seal, and would eliminate the bending of the plate, which also masks your result.
Man, I hear you. I'm 63 and after a lifetime in the construction industry and a couple of knee surgeries, it's getting pretty rough. No more wax my friend. 🤣
Get a kneel pad!!! I’ve also had a litany of knee surgeries, I tried every type of knee pad and they’re all just bothersome. You can get a foam pad from husky at home depot for like 20 bucks, and it will change your life. Both my parents and wife swear by them too. Great for around the house and the job site.
What are you doing to help you after knee surgery? My wife, who is a a RN CDNe (Certified Dialysis Nurse emeritus) worked with a woman who had knee surgery. She did every glucosamine chondrotian product in the health food store and still had pain and limping. Then we told her about what my wife was using for her back pain. She used it and no more pain, swelling or limping @topherdean1024
The maximum pressure that a ring can hold is not a real world issue. A rocking or unstable issue is an issue. Use very little pressure but rock the acrylic sheet to simulate a wobbling toilet to see what seal gives the best real-world performance. I'm a home owner and have used several of these and they seem to work really well. Especially, if you have lift the toilet for some reason, you don't have a gooey wax mess to clean up.
Someone finally said it. Wax rings just get permanently compressed if there's any flex or unevenness in the floor. Intuition should predict it, and it's trivial to observe. I don't care if they're a bit cheaper. The difference doesn't offset the cost of a rotten subfloor and the broken flange that inevitably follows.
I can't see how a wax seal gives a good seal in anything but a case where the toilet bowl doesn't budge a micrometer, and how realistic is that? First time big Uncle Hershel sits on the can, I can almost guarantee there will be tiny angular offsets and displacements, and I can't see how the wax seal will remain air or water tight. At least materials with good elasticity will rebound and continue to conform to small angular and other offsets, when Hershel gets back off the can.
@@briank10101 The wax ring (or alternative ring material) is ONLY to prevent sewer gas from entering the home as the P trap is built into the toilet fixture unlike with sinks, etc. A properly set toilet flange will not have issues and that is the problem 99% of the time (the other 1% problem is floor has bounce to it / improper framing or uneven creating wobble). The weight of a person is transferred through the toilet to the floor and is not through the wax ring. The horn of the toilet fits INSIDE the toilet flange as the toilet flange is sitting ON TOP OF the finished floor. There will only be small space between the toilet and flange that wax will seal to prevent sewer gas from entering the home. When I remodeled my bathrooms, I cut out the flange (from inside the pipe) did the finish floors then set a long tail toilet flange (or extended the pipe as the case may be). The flange then must be screwed (stainless steel screws) through the finished floor and into the subfloor. I went the extra step and silicone caulk around the flange and finished floor. Solid as if built on concrete. Installed the toilets and made sure snug with no wobble then caulked or grouted around the toilet. 100% solid and leak proof. If your flange is not 100% correct you will have problems.
No one asked me, but I think a bit more pressure was used than it would ever go though. If you're not realistic about actual use, you can make any seal fail if you put enough pressure on it and use the wrong materials to test your theory
I used the Korky rubber ring during my bathroom remodel, as it allowed our contractor to reinstall the toilet every day without having to use a new wax ring each time. The Korky Wax Free ring is made in Burlington, WI.
I've replaced literally thousands of toilet flappers. Korky makes by far and away the best toilet replacement flapper. You pay a bit more....but they're worth it.
The problem you were having with the non-wax seals is that the piece of acrylic you were using was warping severely preventing it from being able to seal. That's a problem you won't see against the porcelain of a toilet. I've used them in my house and never needed to replace one after putting it in. I'm sure they'll fail eventually as all things do but to me they work incredibly well.
@@rfarevalo The point being that, he should have corrected the test by adding (at least) 2 more bolts, to give more consistent/even pressure all the way around, as a toilet would and get rid of the bicycle tire pump because it doesn't apply consistent pressure. So your sarcastic reply was unwarranted.
Thats the problem with the internet. If we are grouped together in person talking about this, any halfway decent person would keep their manners in check. They wouldnt run their mouth like rfarevalo. The internet is like a wrought iron gate separating two yapping dogs. Open the gate and they shut up. Ya you could say look at me im running my mouth, buuut someone had to say it. 😅
@@rfarevalo Well, you mentioned it because he did and since the video did too, with my comment about yours it makes 4 times it was mentioned. (lol) Anyone wanna be 5?
I can’t say that my experience is definitive regarding wax vs rubber. However, I’ve installed wax rings and have replaced wax rings during bathroom floor remodels and have never seen evidence of any leaks. I have replaced rubber seals with wax precisely because they did rot and leak. Definitive proof of one over the other? No. However, I don’t feel like ripping out a ceiling below the rubber seal leak and repairing it to look like it never happened ever again. With me? Wax. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
So for me I've been using the better than wax. For probably 6 years now. I've always been a big fan of wax. And I'm still using wax in certain occasions. But a lot of these new toilate, they have no grip to hold when you're trying to install them. They're odd shaped a lot of times they have these funky designs where you have to insyall the bolts. Inside the bowl so I started using the better than wax. Because it was a way I could get a seal. Cause you have to keep working the toilet sometimes to get the these funky toilets to set the way you want to. And that's just what has worked for me with some of these different toilet designs. But I've never really had any issue with it. And I really don't use the foam piece unless it's. Like specifically, an upstairs toilet situation where maybe the flange is sitting just just a little bit too low and I'll give that to my customers as an option as opposed to redoing the entire upstairs flange, which reinstalling the flange at the right height is the better option. But sometimes with budgets, people can't afford those kinds of repairs when they want to. And have to save up for the repair costs. So it's a kind of a Get me by Repair, but I've had a lot of success with the better than wax myself.
The seals are not the issue its when the toilet starts to wobble that is the issue. Wax or Rubber they will both seal for a very long time. I always wondered why there were not more than 2 bolts to hold it all down. If you had a 3rd ideally a 4th bolt on a toilet they would last a lot longer. People 'shift' when sitting on the bowl... that is the problem.
I thought the same thing until I noticed my crazy in-laws rotated the guest bathroom toilet 10 degrees somehow. I was sure it was going to need a new seal, but with a thermal camera and water tester it showed no leaks so I'll let it ride after straightening and tightening it back up.@@gags730
@@James-dt7ky Really? You would think they would have at least 3. Like the 3rd bolt in the back and for cosmetic reason I can see not having one in front
Eight years ago (Dec 2015) I used the 7530 Toilet seal kit "better than wax" from Fluidmaster. So far so good. No leaks. No sewer gas. It outlived the tank. The tank recently developed a hairline crack and a leak. Replaced the tank but kept the bowl in place still attached to the floor with seal inside. I am not a plumber by any means. Just a home owner.
I’ve used wax rings, and the blue rubber one you tried in the video. Some of other rubber toilet rings are junk. The wax rings and blue rubber rings both work, except if using a PVC flange and it is too high above the floor and there is not enough room between flange and toilet to compress the rubber. In that case, use a wax ring. If the flange and floor are not parallel, use a wax ring. Never allow a toilet to rock back and forth even a small amount when using a wax ring. The rubber rings have that advantage over wax rings, when installing a toilet. Supposedly you can reuse the blue rubber rings, but I never do. Wood floors are never perfectly level, so I shim the toilet so it cannot rock when using a wax ring. The ideal flat floor for a toilet are large format porcelain tiles. I’ve never had to shim a toilet setting on a porcelain tile floor that was laid using a floor leveling system. There are typically two causes for toilet ring failure. Improper installation or the toilet gets loose and rocks even a slight amount. That’s why I make sure even if the nuts are not really tight, the toilet does not rock. I use the thin flexible cutting board sheets and custom cut shims that are hidden beneath the toilet.
Not a plumber but diy'er...used 'The Green Gasket' sani seal from Home Depot and it worked great. Almost 10 years later and still no leaks. My dad still prefers the wax rings though.
I will disagree. It is a great idea until you have to plunge and water would go up over the round part and leak out the bottom. I just changed the ring from say 4 yrs ago which I had a green foam ring. It was deformed and as soggy as a kitchen sponge.
@@KreemieNewgatt Yes mine did have the downward flange that directed waste into the drain I haven't tried one since that one as I haven't had to replace a toilet since then. If the new ones omit that design that seems like a bad idea.
@@major7upYou might be surprised how worn that Sani-Seal looks today. They dry up, harden and shrink over time but are very impressive when new. Currently I am using the One-N-Done seal kit by Zone Industry. I really like their approach over some of the other waxless rubber seal designs from all the major players I have used in the past. I give the seal a wipe with silicone grease to lube it up and slide up the toilet flange completely for best seal when setting the toilet. The included guide screws in the package are easy to work with too. I buy mine at Menards.
Landlord here, I've laid 2 toilets personally with better than wax seals, and haven't had a single problem yet! I like them because, I'm not a plumber. I don't have the repetitive skills honed in like one. So it's significantly more forgiving using the better than wax seals. My landlord friends also use better than wax seals, and they swear by them! It's really a great deal to have some leeway installing toilets, for only $10.
Agreed, I volunteered (never again) to put in 3 new toilets for a cousin of mine in her townhouse, I had on hand wax rings and also the Fluidmaster and Korky ones. I used the non-wax since, although I do most of my own plumbing, I'm not experienced setting toilets, I wanted to be able to re-set the toilet if necessary. I liked the Fluidmaster better. With the extra spacers they are good for flanges below the floor. But these flanges were above, so I had wobble and used Wobble Wedges, had a box from Amazon, plastic shims. I have not had any complaints after a couple years.
Your test is totally bogus. What you are testing is the bending strength is a thin, flimsy piece of plastic (while it is supported in only 2 places). The plastic is bowing & lifting away from the seal. With 4" pipe, the force on that plastic is about 12 times the PSI you are applying. At only 5 PSI, that amounts to 60 pounds. The plastic bends! Pressure is not what makes a toilet seal leak. It is shifting of the toilet, movement of the pipe, or shrinking of the seal with age (causing the seal to lose contact). The wax seal can only deform ONCE to accommodate irregularities in the toilet or pipe. The silicone seal continues to spring upward to accommodate movement. The maximum pressure toilet can make is 1 or 2 PSI. Seals leak because they separate, not because of pressure.
I knew there was something that didn't make sense about this test but I couldn't quite figure out why. You hit the nail on the head. Very poorly designed as it doesn't replicate the conditions under which a toilet seal operates.
I have a condo in Fl. and the toilet was leaking around the bottom, so I figured the wax ring needed replacing. I installed this toilet around 14 years ago. I've always done all of my own plumbing and electrical work in my homes. Now at 81 YO, it is getting tougher, so I hired a plumber. I had all the water out of the tank so it would speed up the process. When the plumber came, and he removed the toilet, he discovered the flange was corroded and that was the failure point. In removing the old flange he broke the 4-inch pipe, he didn't have any along, so he had to go back to the shop to pick up a few more parts. To make a long story short, the charge came to $694.00 for this repair. His labor charge was $165/hour. Had I known it would have been that much, I would have done it myself even if it took all day with frequent rest stops. I figured he charged me for the time to go and get the parts because he did not have a section of 4-inch pipe in the truck, and he also charged me for the time we had a BS session after he was done for the day. Since it was his last call of the day, I offered him a soda, which he accepted. He was a nice guy, but his company was not worth $165/hour.
plumbers have ALWAYS been overpriced making at least 4 times/hr what most of their customers make but can't compete with dentists who get 4000/tooth with maybe 90 minutes invested for BOTH visits !!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER just chat with folks getting paid by the hour that work at your house. Most will charge you for every second they aren't at the shop. Worst I had was a plumber that didn't have a basic part, a silly under the sink shut-off valve, and left to get one. He was gone for 3hrs and the company billed me for it. All they were doing was connecting a dishwasher drain hose to the sink drain on a kitchen remodel. They also charged me for training the new guy who was with the plumber. I called, pretty angry, they removed the charge for the trainee but not the 3hrs they weren't at my house. It still cost me something like $350 for maybe 45 minutes of actual work, 20yrs ago.
Born in 1970. My father made me help fix everything as soon as I was able to hold a hammer. Foam gaskets from back then, got compressed and leaked. Wax rings eventually gave out after leaks and a few retightening situations. I switched to better than wax and have had zero issues. The main outgoing sewer line for the house broke and the lowest point for it to back up was the basement toilet. Better than wax held just fine with a full to overflowing toilet and the pressure in the veritcal pipe, as it was beneath the shower upstairs. No more cleaning wads of crappy wax. If I need to change the toilet, it's a snap.
@@RogerWakefield a non-wax one would also be a better option if you are flushing your warm washing machine water through the toilet. I actually installed the same as the red one as in the video for this reason, just to be safe. Also you should have gotten a thick metal ring to prevent the acrylic from bending as the rubber-based seal are not giving in when squished. A toilet doesn't bend like that so it wasn't a fair pressure test comparaison 😂
I have been setting toilets with wax on radiant slab floors for 21 years here in Alaska. The only time I have ever had a problem is if a toilet has a wobble and it’s not properly shimmed. I’ve never seen wax melt ever. If anything I think the warm floor makes the wax more sticky. The slab temp in my home right now is 85 in one zone and 74 in another and it’s -20 Fahrenheit outside right now. The concrete just doesn’t get all that warm. I’ve heard about “melted wax” for years, It’s a total myth.
To me, and I’m no plumber, but I believe that it really comes down to securing your toilet and preventing it from rocking. The rocking is really bad for wax because it doesn’t expand back to seal it from leaking. If you do it right, a wax ring should outlast rubber.
I agree with you i just had this issue i thought my brother didnt put the floor in correctly but the flange was just to high so it rocked i got 10 years out of the ring and just started to notice the off gasses, I took off the toilet and had to redo the whole flange to stop it from rocking back and forth it works great now.
Plumber here. Fluidmaster rubber for me. If people lose power in Florida it gets hot enough to melt the wax rings. After hurricanes come through and people loose AC I get a lot of leaking toilets. I've never had a complaint about sewer gas.
I love the Korky rubber rings. Ive never had an issue. Ive used the Fluidmasters, too, but prefer the Korky. Not once have i found or have had a repoet of gas coming through. It seems they're more forgiving, too, of people dropping onto rhe toilet seat or shifting the toilet, somehow.
Should have tested the Better Than Wax without the black spacer because you rarely use it. I’ve installed dozens of toilets with the Better Than Wax and I’ve only had to use the black spacer one time.
was looking for this comment. He tested tall wax and short wax, but only tall rubber/foam. Also, not sure why we're measuring the quality of seal by the amount of pressure it can withstand. Aren't we checking for a good seal? Give it a little bit of pressure to have it pressurized, making sure there is a seal at all, then do a color/smoke test. Both products should pass with flying colors XD. 3:14 he even says it should never experience this kind of pressure, or anything close to it. And, like others have said, why does he keep using that same piece of acrylic bending it more and more?
The instructions say to use the spacer with a flange flush or recessed to the finished floor. The only instance that the spacer isn’t used is when the flange is on the finished floor. I have a flush flange and the spacer actually caused the toilet to sit about a half inch high at contact. I had to tighten the flange bolts to compress the foam. Without the spacer in place, the seal didn’t make contact with the toilet.
Sometimes the floor isn't stiff enough, and the customer weighs 370 pounds. The toilet rocks a little no matter how correct the installation is, and the wax has no elastic deformation only plastic deformation - it ends up leaking. I use neoprene these days. I've had to go back and repair wax, but never rubber.
I've used both originally wax and the problem i had is the wax getting compressed down too much from people sitting on it and causing the toilet to wobble. Here about a year ago i switched to the blue one you showed in this video and it's been solid since.
I just tried the fluidmaster rubber gasket 2 days ago and it leaked! I had to pull the whole toilet back up again and used a wax ring. That's what I should have used to start with! So much for new and improved!!
My upstairs bathroom has had the wax ring fail twice in the seven years we've been living here (first was installed by the people who renovated the house before we bought it, second was installed by me (I am not a plumber)), and both times the ring had a large crack and also appeared to have partially dissolved or something. When it leaked the second time last summer I replaced it with a rubber ring, haven't had any more leaks so far but only time will tell if it lasts as long or longer than the wax rings have. Both failures resulted in water dripping from the dining room ceiling any time the toilet was flushed.
I am not a plumber by trade, however, I have installed & repaired many toilets in the last 55 plus years , and I always used the wax rings and never, ever, had a failure with any of them.
I used better than wax ring for my last toilet install. I really like these - they work well and are totally re-usable. If you read the directions - you should use one or the other foam depending on how high or low your flange is set. I would definitely recommend these to homeowners.
I have replaced a lot of those rubber rings as a service plumber. I think after a while they dry up and shrink, causing the smell to come out. I had one that failed not even a month after installation. I sold the work, somebody else installed it and I felt like a real jerk having to reset this brand new toilet with wax when it should have been done right the first time.
You should definitely try a stiffer/thicker piece of acrylic for these kinds of tests because the acrylic is the weak link in each test and I’m curious to see what they can really take.
This is excellent, I really depend on being able to visualize certain aspects of a job in order to feel like I'm doing it right, so seeing how the wax and rubber seals work, is really helpful for me. Thanks!
I used the Danco one that you had in your thumbnail but didn't test. That's the one that's half rubber and half wax. Worked great for my application. Floor was very uneven and I would rock the toilet too much when installing a wax ring, causing a gap. The Danco one did a great job maintaining a seal while I adjusted the toilet to make it snug.
Blue rubber works excellent, now on mine the flange is 1/4 above the floor so you don't use the foam ring just the blue rubber ring. Works fantastic and no mess. Great for science video!
As a 35 year veteran service plumber I have seen my share of gadget's under toilets instead of wax. I have also had those "horned wax seals" cause stoppages. The very best seal in my opinion, with my years of experience is the jumbo was seal. It is the only one on my truck.
Always use a 110, felt or neoprene lined wax ring, ones [designed for wall hung toilets] otherwise you can blow out regular wax if plunging a main line stoppage, then rot out the flooring ! You will thank me later! Plumber Steve
I have been a G C for 20 years and the synthetic is all we use. in century homes some have heat vents shooting at toilets melting the wax over time (creating failures) and with the synthetic this does not happen. Hope this helps and Great Video!
I'm a homeowner, I replaced one of my toilets a year ago and used neoprene. No problems in the first year. I had to replace the flange anyway, I figured it was the perfect time to go with the new product, it'll never have wax mess on it.
@@KreemieNewgatt The adhesive on the Fernco is sticky like a mouse pad. After I put it on a new clean bowl, I put PL adhesive around the flange to bowl for extra grip and let it ry for a few days. Put a little liquid soap on the flange and inside the pipe and it slips right in. If you have one of the bowls that has a slight rocking due to floor problems Fernco will not be a problem because when it moves it does not break the seal because the final seal is IN THE PIPE not at the flange.
Ove used a foam rubber ring. My toilet did wobble, and i was able to retighten it. The amount of backpressure doesn't seem to affect the rubber seal at all. Ive had itnon for over a year now.
NEVER going back to wax. Zero problems with the rubber/foam seals (Fluidmaster Better Than Wax). You never know if the wax set right when you add pressure and you certainly can't lift it to readjust or else you're scraping wax and doing it again.
This is not a good test, because your setup won't hold the same seal as a toilet attached to a floor due to the acrylic bending. You need to do another test with a proper test bench setup. You can have a test bench similar to the one you are standing in front. Just make a hole in the top of the bench to attach you test pipe to then put your seal and attached a toilet to it properly. After that is done correctly then you can pressure test them.
DIY hone owner, bathroom remodel. New $500 Mansfield Barrett toilet with new marble tile floor. I used the new blue better than wax silicone gasket. The manufactured toilet sits higher from seal level sona thick or extra wax ring was needed. After installation with wax a couple days later I had water under the toilet😢 R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring but opted for the extra thick wax this time. 2 days later YUP Water on the floor...WTAF? 😮😮 R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring, THIS TIME I opted for the blue silicone. Easier assembling to set the toilet as a one piece unit. 2 days later AGAIN water inder the toilet... getting to be quite the toilet setting professional at this point 😂. I bought another seal kit after taking measurements and finding this Mansfield Barrett toilet sits a little higher than the old toilet soni doubled ip the gasket sets. 2 days later WATER ON THE FLOOR. I installed the ild toilet with one blue gasket and NO Water after a few weeks. Did some slucing with some BLUE food coloring and found a manufacturer defect issue with the porcelain sealing around the toilet drain... SWEET $500 DOLLAR toilet and this is the quality of work. Ordered another toilet and waiting the 2 months for delivery. Finally installed it with a pair of blue gaskets and the world is spinning back on its axis again. The blue seals are great. Less mess than wax BUT if you set the toilet right any seal will last for years. I have the front bathroom toilet to R&R and will be using the blue seal for that job. One thing about plumbers using wax is the SAME plumber probably won't be back to work on it a second time. As a DIY home owner the wax is messy, but if uour having to pull up the toilet often you have other issues.
I started using the rubber seals from HD a few years ago in both new builds/remodels and repair/replacing faulty wax seal rings. The good thing about them is that they are not messy, so if you need to remove/replace the toilet, you simply reuse the seal. You are correct, in that there isn't going to be that much pressure on a toilet. I specifically like using them on retro fits, because around here, we have a ton of lead downpipes into cast iron. Well, as we know, that lead can deform and leak. When you have a wax ring, it will leak, because it follows the lead when it moves. The good thing about the rubber ring is that it has an extended flange that goes down into the lead pipe, so no matter how much the lead moves/deforms while under the "normal" use of a toilet, that extended piece will cover the gap within 1 to 2.5 inches. And we also know that if your flange/downpipe separate more than 2 inches, you have issues far beyond anything that a ring seal will cover, no matter what it is made out of. Here in the Greater New Orleans area, we have major issues with houses settling constantly due to the ground subsiding. This is followed up by the house foundation needing to be leveled again. This issue can go on for decades, where the house sinks and the foundation guys lifting. Many times the plumbing, specifically the sewer side, does not always follow the house, so the flanges under the toilets can, and does falter and need to be repaired. This is where the rubber part shines really well for me. The thing about the rubber part is that, as you showed, it comes with the extra ring. This ring is only needed if the flange is below the tile level. you can get a second one if your flange is more than 1/2 inch below the top of the tile, but that is rare, at least in my experience. Most of the time I am not even using the extra foam ring, and the rubber ring seal works just fine. While I have only been using these for a few years now, I have never had one fail. One other great thing about them is that if the toilet needs to be removed for tile work or needs to be adjusted a little bit, it will not require a new wax ring. I just used one in my own house last weekend, because the lead down pipe had deformed and separated just a 1/8th inch and you guessed it, it leaked. Of course my wife called me, frantic because the ceiling of the coat closet on the main floor had started to leak. So when I got home, I ripped the sheetrock open and saw a tiny little drip. I knew exactly what it was, ran up the block to HD and bought a rubber ring, repaired the deformed lead pipe and installed the new rubber gasket.
Hey Roger, I just ran into this choice. I didn't buy them, the home owner did. I did a tile job in a couple bathrooms. The customer got this real thick cement covered foam board, instead of 1/4" Hardy backer. By the time I was done, the flange was now real deep below the tile. I told customer I needed the Jumbo wax ring. He brought those and the foam type. I wanted to try the foam type. With the toilet on the foam, it wasn't even squishing the seal down. So, I just used the jumbo wax ring. Worked great.
@@jkhijirida I've never seen an additional kit that I can buy. I'd have to get another foam ring and use the ones that come with it. And they aren't cheap.
Years ago, I switched to the 'Better Than Wax' and never had a leak since. I believe that some plumbers use wax because they know it it's cheap and will eventually leak from small movements of the toilet. That means another call to install a new wax ring.
When I first moved in there were roots growing in my sewer pipe and it required several runs with the auger to finally clear the drain. Luckily I have not had to auger the pipe for a couple of years now but after the second time pulling up the commode to run the big boy I went back with a silicone seal and it has proven to be a great seal and no mess to clean up. No more wax for me!
@@billrowan1957 so... how do you explain the plexiglass flexing at 5 minutes, 38 seconds? Plexi is a very soft, flexible material. In order to create a proper seal at that thickness it probably would have needed at least 8 equidistant bolts... and even then with plexi that thin, it might have cracked under pressure (probably radiating out from a bolt hole).
Probably 10 years ago now I was using a rubber accordion type toilet seal. It went on the horn of a clean toilet with a double sided tape, that was super tough, then you opened it up and set it allowing it to collapse as you set it, I would use them in a retirement home when I had a tenant who continuously broke their wax ring
I have tried many seals in multiple countries. The Aussies got it figured out, but the American toilets are still behind the times. That being said , i like the wax better. Have never gotten a callback on the wax, had at least 1 on the rubber. One callback is enough for me, no more rubber.
Their toilets are built a little different. They have an extended seal area on the bottom with a rubber seal that gets mounted instead of a toilet flange.
I've installed several dozen of the FluidMaster wax free toilet seals with no problems and no call backs. However, I have recently switched to using the Fernco wax free toilet seals. They have a long finned spigot that goes down inside the drain pipe, and they have a top ring of adhesive that glues them to the bottom of the toilet. Between the tight fit into the drain pipe and the adhesive seal to the toilet, they seem to be absolute proof against sewer gases or leakage. You do have to carry the three different pipe sizes which are 3, 3 1/2, and 4 inch pipe sizes. Most recently I've been using a similar wax free seal from ACEDUROBLA. It's very similar to the fernco, but it has a much more aggressive adhesive for gluing it to the toilet spigot.
I have an old house and used the red rubber/foam ring you showed off last. With how much my house moves in the winter/summer I wouldn’t do wax. Half of my doors don’t shut in the winter due to the house movement lol. In two years I haven’t had issues yet. I have even moved my toilet a couple of times to redo the floor and paint behind it. It was nice not having to go back to the store to get a new ring. No sewer smells.
From my own experience, I've had bad luck with the foam/rubber/silicone rings Yes. they're easier to clean up, but I've had to replace two of them because they did not seal completely I had to use the extra thick wax ring in those instances.
During a renovation, the need arose to set and remove the toilet a few times. A no-wax seal came in handy in that specific scenario. I think the final set was done in wax.
This is bad science. The acrylic flexes too much not a fair test for any of the seals. You push a toilet flush then secure in location with the bolts. A toilet won't flex like that.
I learned with wax about 40 years ago. I don't know how many of those I've installed. About 5 years ago I tried the rubber type. Looked interesting. I don't carry wax anymore. They're too much trouble for me. I've had applications where wax will last for 3 years, then fail. Water comes to the ceiling below. Since I switched to rubber, no more problems. I can send even a new guy out and there won't be a problem. At least not with the toilet soil stack. He may screw up the water supply or something else.
I was about to say that there seem to be a lot of unknowns with the way Rodger is testing this one. Would love to see a more practical experiment but I’m sure it would have similar results
Unlike rubber, which will eventually deteriorate, wax will last forever. As long as the toilet never gets loose and wobbles around, because wax does not have much flexibility with motion. Unlike wax, which will break apart with movement of the toilet, rubber will easily flex with movement and maintain its seal as long as the toilet does not get too loose.
I am a General Contractor and I have been wondering about these for so long. I've used both, have had no problems with the new rubber seals (especially when dealing with older homes that suffer from people just laying new flooring on old flooring or those flanges just being before floor level), but I have not found a definitive answer for what is better. I mean, I like being able to reuse the rubber and not having to clean up that messy wax, but I just don't know which is better. I seriously question how the rubber seal holds up to a plunger because plunging creates a lot of pressure. I wish someone, somewhere could come up with a definitive answer.
I've installed two DANCO All-In-One Toilet Installation Kits under my two new Jacuzzi 1.8 gall toilets and it's five years without an issue. I used them because the bathroom had two floors and the flange was below the floor surface and with their added height compressed to make a good seal.
I tried two of the non-wax designs in November 2023 with a 16 year old Toto and neither fit up properly and they leaked. Back to double wax and bingo- no leaks. Toilets are not glazed or smooth on the bottom- so the flexible (rubber/silicon) seals don’t fit up leak free. As compared to wax which fills the voids and seals.
Problem is with the circular flange most of the time wood around the toilet is rotted or does not cover around the pipe, you can not screw it on the toilet floor because there is no wood to screw it to, flanges has to be like square shaped that can be secured to the floor wood with the bolts most of the time the flange screws does not grab the floor.
I used that korky rubber one that didn't hold any air in your test. It hasn't leaked after a year and I'm happy with it. I think if your floor shifts it your toilet wobbles you are better off with a rubber and foam ring due to the elasticity.
I'm in the "it works" and it's not a mess to clean up. Yes they cost a little bit more but the foam rings work just fine in my apartments and I don't have a mess to clean up when a kid flushes their tooth brush down the toilet like happened last week. The few bucks more the foam rings cost more than pays for its self by the labor savings for cleaning up the wax ring. This doesn't even include buying a new wax ring if you miss on the first time.
the foam ring isn't used if your flange is level to the floor, so the rubber will hold better alone. I've done 3 toilets in my house and helped with 2 in neighbors houses. They work great.
I'm a DIYer. I replaced our 3 toilets. First 2 included wax rings which I used with no problems. Third was a fancier model, different brand. The oval heads of the anchoring bolts were too small and kept popping loose. After junking 3 rings (3 trips to the hardware store), I bought a foam ring. It allowed a few futile tries to find the problem. The old bolts and foam ring have been odor free for 2 years, so far.
I'm sold on the rubber ones. Wax is a one shot deal. If you find that something isn't quite right, and have to remove the toilet after smashing, your wax ring is ruined. Sometimes wax rings can split. The good rubber ones have a long snoot that goes further down the pipe, and a thick, soft closed cell rubber foam ring that really conforms to seal. If you have to remove and reseat the toilet, no problem.
Fantastic job! I learned something today. You do a great job of explaining to the non-plumbers such as myself, what you think is best for certain applications. I was hoping the foam gaskets worked better, but like you said, wax has been the best way to go. Thank you sir!
I have used the foam seals for years now, and they work great. They are used on motorhomes, and I figured if they worked in a home during an earthquake (motorhome driving down the road), they would work on a stationary home.
I put a rubber one on my fiancé's toilet and it was there for 6 years with no problems. She moved to my town and we got married. We used the rubber gasket on the front toilet and we did that in 2019. It is still working correctly. We used the green rubber one.
We have two bathrooms and had wax ring fail twice on both! I used the hybrid one that has both wax and rubber which allows you to reset the toilet if you had to. fast forward two years and no problems yet.
Ive only replaced a wax seal once in my 70 years. Used a big wax one because it needed a quick fix and the ring was below the floor surface, so I wanted to make sure it sealed even if it squished all over underneath. I have spoken to plumbers and agree that the non wax ring is much better
Great vid, thanks for putting it together. To me, the unknown is how long the rubber/silicone lasts. I've seen various formulations of seals deteriorate over time. Wax, on the other hand really never falls apart, something else changes that makes the seal go bad usually. The pressure test is interesting but you really don't get much pressure pushing out. That being said I like the easy clean up of the rubber seals and I might try one next time.
Lol I tried all of these. I'm not a plumber just a home owner and found that a normal wax ring works best if your flange is properly installed. Yes the rubber ones are less messy but how many time do you replace your toilet really think about it. I still have the same one from 25 years ago. 1 properly installed wax ring will last you a lifetime.
I have moved away from wax rings, too many problems. I use the blue rubber ring in all of my rental homes and my personal home. I now have less issues and have simplified the work. I have never had a rubber ring leak.
When we built the house I used a rubber seal on one toilet and 35 years and a toilet change later later it is still holding. The other bathroom toilet has a wax ring which has leaked twice and been replaced three times.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
to be fair, if you're putting 25 PSI of air pressure on your toilet, you eat way too many beans.
Or all you can eat hot wings
But they’re the magical fruit…
@@RogerWakefield The more you eat, the more you toot.
1psi= 2.307 ft high back up
@@braindejong9606 so that means a 57 foot tall toilet. which misses the joke, entirely.
I like the test but you can see the acrylic is bending which won’t be a good seal so something stiffer would have been a better test for both in my opinion
I agree. I am no plumber by but I use these in all my toilets at the apartments I work at as I go. Somewhere around 100 toilets it’s the past 4 years I’ve had one instance where I couldn’t use one. Time saved is massive. Between cleanup and not scrapping the old ring off. It’s so much easier to do and they work. When you have a proper seal I believe they are better. Just make sure you gasket flange isn’t broken.
Which couldn't that be a better test, the flooring under toilets sometimes bends right? so wouldn't you want a worst case test
@@johndorian4078 yes, the floor may have bends but the seal doesn't touch the floor so it has no influence. The weak point of this test is the acrylic sheet used on the end. It is clearly not as stiff as a toilet bottom and is skewing the results. I've used both and after the first no wax seal you couldn't pay me to go back to wax. The toilet in my current house had a wax seal that was leaking so I replaced it and within months it was leaking again. Switched to a no wax seal and it hasn't leaked in 25 years now and that includes having removed the toilet once to redo the floor and and another time to gain access to the space behind the toilet for painting. Never had a drip or an odor of sewer gases leak through it.
Yea a toilet is not going to flex like the acrylic did.
@@johndorian4078 Plus a toilet is much heavier and puts an equal amount of pressure around the seal.
My buddy is a GC and I helped him set with the blue one, also installed the blue one in my house. No issues, no sewer gas. Makes me more likely to upgrade my toilet because I don't have to deal with the wax next time.
When I did apartment maintenance, I switched over to the better then wax. Worked well for me. I like that there is no wax to clean up. Other bonus, it can be reused incase you set the toilet down off center.
Exactly. If you accidentally set the toilet down wrong. You just move it with a rubber seal. With wax.....you have miserable cleanup on your hands if you have degraded the wax to the point that the entire thing needs to be replaced.
I do apartment maintenance and use the neoprene seals instead of wax. Our buildings are old and I have had to deal with several leaking wax rings. Once a wax ring looses it's seal and gets wet it doesn't tend to reseal, the neoprene rings will reseal. That is the big advantage for me.
I’ve seen the rubber rings work from having to pull toilets for other various reasons, but I’ve never used them myself.
@@drmodestoesq ~ Landlord and I installed a new lo-flow toilet upstairs and used the neoprene seal. That was probably 8 or so years ago and still no leak and it is nice not to be concerned about incorrect placement wrecking the wax ring.
When I moved into my house I swapped out 3 toilets the Wax rings were not my friend I tried the Better than Wax without zero issue. My dad swore by the wax ring until I showed him the better than wax for ease of use and clean install it’s my preference. That being said I’m just a homeowner I know both methods work.
I'm a licensed plumber in New Mexico and I've done service work for 6 years. now I'm in a maintenance position for an apartment complex. Since the first time I tried "Better Than Wax" five years ago, I decided that I was never going back to wax. I've installed hundreds of the foam/rubber ring seals and I've never gotten a call-back or experienced any type of issue related to a toilet I've set using that product. Two things I swear by: "Better Than Wax" and siliconized acrylic caulking in place traditional plumber's putty or for any instance requiring a sanitary seal. This type of caulking is the easiest to use and clean up because, prior to setting up and curing, it's water soluble - just takes a damp rag and washes right off hands and tools. It's also safe on drains because it just dissolves in water on clean up. Once it's set and cured (think basket strainer or disposal adapter installation in a kitchen sink basin) it holds it's seal very well and stays worlds cleaner than putty could ever be capable of.
Thanks for the tip on the caulking gonna try that
@@WalrusMcDonald12n2na2The siliconized acrylic caulk works great for sink rims and sealing gaps in wood trim before painting. Alex Plus is one brand I use but others also work well.
I've set thousands of toilets in my life with no issue and wax. But I always insist on getting that WC flange bolted to the top of the floor like it should be. You're starting behind the eight ball if it's too high or below the floor surface. I see new installs all the time where they set a knock-out flange in the subfloor before the floor people have finished. I can only assume they do that so they can get their water/air test done for the inspector. Putting a rubber test plug in the stub-up pipe I guess is too complicated. And....use the next size pipe around your stub-up so you can come back later and set your flange. I do agree on the siliconized sealer though or 100% silicone. Those Hercules wipes will easily remove any silicone residue....and even denatured alcohol will work. I haven't used plumber's putty for yrs now....just sits in the truck. Nothing wrong with it, it's just that silicone and siliconized caulk are so much better.
@TheReal1953 I'm sure there have been plenty of issues. You just weren't called back for them. Rubber is way better. Not a big concern on a slab. But on pier and beam, especially a trailer house, with particle board floors. Often times the toilet will shift on those weak floors and disturb the wax ring after a few years causing a leak. Not so with rubber.
I always use rubber seals because you are guaranteed a leak free install indefinetely. Also if they ever upgrade there is no need to buy a new ring. It's just better than wax.
@@mr.upcycle9589I always told customers to 'call me if there is a problem, not cuss me'. I have a good record, but not claiming I 'never' had callbacks. But they usually weren't toilet set issues unless the users were obese or the floor gave way for some structural reason. I'm not condemning rubber WC seals in any way. Just commenting that logically, one would abandon wax seals if they were a continuing issue. In my experience, they were not.
I've used the exact same Fluidmaster foam rings when I needed to do underlayment repairs under the toilets in our house. I've been pleased with the results.
Note: That is a 2 piece system. You don't necessarily have to use both black & blue foam rings. The black piece is used if the flange is below floor level and additional seal is necessary.
Really enjoy your videos & tips.
I really appreciate your comment. I didn't know if you had to use the foam rings. I tried once and the toilet wouldn't go all the way down, and I was afraid to torque the bolts too tight. I didn't use any foam ring. Was this okay?
@davegaetano7118 It depends on your flange. If it's level with the floor, rubber alone is fine.
If it's up to ¼ inch below floor level, use the foam spacer.
@@marshallmcdonald7309
Thanks!
@@davegaetano7118 You have to look at the instructions. The instructions will tell you that based on your flange height, you use or do not use the extra rings.
@@scottlyttle5586
It's been a good number of years since I've had to use the rubber one, but honestly I don't remember any instructions to that effect coming with it. Maybe the instructions have been expanded.
I'm an old guy, and after wrestling with replacing a wax ring today, I'm switching to rubber next time. These old knees have had five surgeries, and all the scar tissue across the face of the knee caps does NOT like kneeling on tile floors any more, and especially so if I kneel on a closet bolt or a nut.
The tests are a great idea. Thank you for doing this. I'd like to see a couple of things changed on the tests, and see if you have a revised reaction. The pressure gauge should be moved to the pressure chamber. Right now, it is only reading the pressure in the hose. There is a large pressure drop across the Schrader valve when you are pumping, which masks your results. The other thing, is that if you use another metal ring or even a PVC flange over the acrylic plate, you would have even pressure around the whole seal, and would eliminate the bending of the plate, which also masks your result.
Man, I hear you. I'm 63 and after a lifetime in the construction industry and a couple of knee surgeries, it's getting pretty rough. No more wax my friend. 🤣
Get a kneel pad!!! I’ve also had a litany of knee surgeries, I tried every type of knee pad and they’re all just bothersome. You can get a foam pad from husky at home depot for like 20 bucks, and it will change your life. Both my parents and wife swear by them too. Great for around the house and the job site.
What are you doing to help you after knee surgery? My wife, who is a a RN CDNe (Certified Dialysis Nurse emeritus) worked with a woman who had knee surgery. She did every glucosamine chondrotian product in the health food store and still had pain and limping. Then we told her about what my wife was using for her back pain. She used it and no more pain, swelling or limping @topherdean1024
The maximum pressure that a ring can hold is not a real world issue. A rocking or unstable issue is an issue. Use very little pressure but rock the acrylic sheet to simulate a wobbling toilet to see what seal gives the best real-world performance.
I'm a home owner and have used several of these and they seem to work really well. Especially, if you have lift the toilet for some reason, you don't have a gooey wax mess to clean up.
Someone finally said it. Wax rings just get permanently compressed if there's any flex or unevenness in the floor. Intuition should predict it, and it's trivial to observe. I don't care if they're a bit cheaper. The difference doesn't offset the cost of a rotten subfloor and the broken flange that inevitably follows.
I can't see how a wax seal gives a good seal in anything but a case where the toilet bowl doesn't budge a micrometer, and how realistic is that? First time big Uncle Hershel sits on the can, I can almost guarantee there will be tiny angular offsets and displacements, and I can't see how the wax seal will remain air or water tight. At least materials with good elasticity will rebound and continue to conform to small angular and other offsets, when Hershel gets back off the can.
@@briank10101 The wax ring (or alternative ring material) is ONLY to prevent sewer gas from entering the home as the P trap is built into the toilet fixture unlike with sinks, etc. A properly set toilet flange will not have issues and that is the problem 99% of the time (the other 1% problem is floor has bounce to it / improper framing or uneven creating wobble). The weight of a person is transferred through the toilet to the floor and is not through the wax ring. The horn of the toilet fits INSIDE the toilet flange as the toilet flange is sitting ON TOP OF the finished floor. There will only be small space between the toilet and flange that wax will seal to prevent sewer gas from entering the home. When I remodeled my bathrooms, I cut out the flange (from inside the pipe) did the finish floors then set a long tail toilet flange (or extended the pipe as the case may be). The flange then must be screwed (stainless steel screws) through the finished floor and into the subfloor. I went the extra step and silicone caulk around the flange and finished floor. Solid as if built on concrete. Installed the toilets and made sure snug with no wobble then caulked or grouted around the toilet. 100% solid and leak proof. If your flange is not 100% correct you will have problems.
No one asked me, but I think a bit more pressure was used than it would ever go though. If you're not realistic about actual use, you can make any seal fail if you put enough pressure on it and use the wrong materials to test your theory
I used the Korky rubber ring during my bathroom remodel, as it allowed our contractor to reinstall the toilet every day without having to use a new wax ring each time.
The Korky Wax Free ring is made in Burlington, WI.
I've replaced literally thousands of toilet flappers. Korky makes by far and away the best toilet replacement flapper. You pay a bit more....but they're worth it.
The problem you were having with the non-wax seals is that the piece of acrylic you were using was warping severely preventing it from being able to seal. That's a problem you won't see against the porcelain of a toilet. I've used them in my house and never needed to replace one after putting it in. I'm sure they'll fail eventually as all things do but to me they work incredibly well.
Yes. The warping acrylic issue is mentioned in the video. No Thanks for re-stating what the video states.
@@rfarevalo The point being that, he should have corrected the test by adding (at least) 2 more bolts, to give more consistent/even pressure all the way around, as a toilet would and get rid of the bicycle tire pump because it doesn't apply consistent pressure.
So your sarcastic reply was unwarranted.
Thats the problem with the internet. If we are grouped together in person talking about this, any halfway decent person would keep their manners in check. They wouldnt run their mouth like rfarevalo. The internet is like a wrought iron gate separating two yapping dogs. Open the gate and they shut up. Ya you could say look at me im running my mouth, buuut someone had to say it. 😅
@@modeljetjuggernaut4864perfect analogy.
@@rfarevalo Well, you mentioned it because he did and since the video did too, with my comment about yours it makes 4 times it was mentioned. (lol) Anyone wanna be 5?
Homeowner. Replaced all 4 seals with rubber years ago. Never had a leak so far.
I can’t say that my experience is definitive regarding wax vs rubber. However, I’ve installed wax rings and have replaced wax rings during bathroom floor remodels and have never seen evidence of any leaks. I have replaced rubber seals with wax precisely because they did rot and leak. Definitive proof of one over the other? No. However, I don’t feel like ripping out a ceiling below the rubber seal leak and repairing it to look like it never happened ever again. With me? Wax. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
So for me I've been using the better than wax. For probably 6 years now. I've always been a big fan of wax. And I'm still using wax in certain occasions. But a lot of these new toilate, they have no grip to hold when you're trying to install them. They're odd shaped a lot of times they have these funky designs where you have to insyall the bolts. Inside the bowl so I started using the better than wax. Because it was a way I could get a seal. Cause you have to keep working the toilet sometimes to get the these funky toilets to set the way you want to. And that's just what has worked for me with some of these different toilet designs. But I've never really had any issue with it. And I really don't use the foam piece unless it's. Like specifically, an upstairs toilet situation where maybe the flange is sitting just just a little bit too low and I'll give that to my customers as an option as opposed to redoing the entire upstairs flange, which reinstalling the flange at the right height is the better option. But sometimes with budgets, people can't afford those kinds of repairs when they want to. And have to save up for the repair costs. So it's a kind of a Get me by Repair, but I've had a lot of success with the better than wax myself.
I switched all wax rings to the blue rubber product you showed. Going strong for 7 years now even when one toilet shifted and rotated.
The seals are not the issue its when the toilet starts to wobble that is the issue. Wax or Rubber they will both seal for a very long time. I always wondered why there were not more than 2 bolts to hold it all down. If you had a 3rd ideally a 4th bolt on a toilet they would last a lot longer. People 'shift' when sitting on the bowl... that is the problem.
I thought the same thing until I noticed my crazy in-laws rotated the guest bathroom toilet 10 degrees somehow. I was sure it was going to need a new seal, but with a thermal camera and water tester it showed no leaks so I'll let it ride after straightening and tightening it back up.@@gags730
Most people are heavier these days.@@gags730
@@gags730 I remember when toilets had 4 bolts.
@@James-dt7ky Really? You would think they would have at least 3. Like the 3rd bolt in the back and for cosmetic reason I can see not having one in front
Eight years ago (Dec 2015) I used the 7530 Toilet seal kit "better than wax" from Fluidmaster. So far so good. No leaks. No sewer gas. It outlived the tank. The tank recently developed a hairline crack and a leak. Replaced the tank but kept the bowl in place still attached to the floor with seal inside. I am not a plumber by any means. Just a home owner.
I’ve used wax rings, and the blue rubber one you tried in the video. Some of other rubber toilet rings are junk. The wax rings and blue rubber rings both work, except if using a PVC flange and it is too high above the floor and there is not enough room between flange and toilet to compress the rubber. In that case, use a wax ring. If the flange and floor are not parallel, use a wax ring.
Never allow a toilet to rock back and forth even a small amount when using a wax ring. The rubber rings have that advantage over wax rings, when installing a toilet. Supposedly you can reuse the blue rubber rings, but I never do.
Wood floors are never perfectly level, so I shim the toilet so it cannot rock when using a wax ring. The ideal flat floor for a toilet are large format porcelain tiles. I’ve never had to shim a toilet setting on a porcelain tile floor that was laid using a floor leveling system.
There are typically two causes for toilet ring failure. Improper installation or the toilet gets loose and rocks even a slight amount. That’s why I make sure even if the nuts are not really tight, the toilet does not rock. I use the thin flexible cutting board sheets and custom cut shims that are hidden beneath the toilet.
Danco is the best
I like your comment the best.
@@jacklabloom635 Danco has a wax ring , rubber gasket and a plastic tube extension. All three in one set up. Easy to install -to high just sit on it.
Not a plumber but diy'er...used 'The Green Gasket' sani seal from Home Depot and it worked great. Almost 10 years later and still no leaks. My dad still prefers the wax rings though.
I will disagree. It is a great idea until you have to plunge and water would go up over the round part and leak out the bottom. I just changed the ring from say 4 yrs ago which I had a green foam ring. It was deformed and as soggy as a kitchen sponge.
@@KreemieNewgatt Yes mine did have the downward flange that directed waste into the drain I haven't tried one since that one as I haven't had to replace a toilet since then. If the new ones omit that design that seems like a bad idea.
@@scottratcliffe6337 you disagree that mine worked for 10 years without issue? How would you know that it did or didn't?
@@major7upYou might be surprised how worn that Sani-Seal looks today. They dry up, harden and shrink over time but are very impressive when new. Currently I am using the One-N-Done seal kit by Zone Industry. I really like their approach over some of the other waxless rubber seal designs from all the major players I have used in the past. I give the seal a wipe with silicone grease to lube it up and slide up the toilet flange completely for best seal when setting the toilet. The included guide screws in the package are easy to work with too. I buy mine at Menards.
@@heystarfish100 that looks pretty interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever need to do another toilet repair
Should have a metal ring for the acrylic plate to keep it flat.
Landlord here, I've laid 2 toilets personally with better than wax seals, and haven't had a single problem yet! I like them because, I'm not a plumber. I don't have the repetitive skills honed in like one. So it's significantly more forgiving using the better than wax seals. My landlord friends also use better than wax seals, and they swear by them! It's really a great deal to have some leeway installing toilets, for only $10.
Agreed, I volunteered (never again) to put in 3 new toilets for a cousin of mine in her townhouse, I had on hand wax rings and also the Fluidmaster and Korky ones. I used the non-wax since, although I do most of my own plumbing, I'm not experienced setting toilets, I wanted to be able to re-set the toilet if necessary. I liked the Fluidmaster better. With the extra spacers they are good for flanges below the floor. But these flanges were above, so I had wobble and used Wobble Wedges, had a box from Amazon, plastic shims. I have not had any complaints after a couple years.
I have used both wax and rubber. You're right about no clean with rubber. I have not had any issues with rubber.
Your test is totally bogus. What you are testing is the bending strength is a thin, flimsy piece of plastic (while it is supported in only 2 places). The plastic is bowing & lifting away from the seal. With 4" pipe, the force on that plastic is about 12 times the PSI you are applying. At only 5 PSI, that amounts to 60 pounds. The plastic bends! Pressure is not what makes a toilet seal leak. It is shifting of the toilet, movement of the pipe, or shrinking of the seal with age (causing the seal to lose contact). The wax seal can only deform ONCE to accommodate irregularities in the toilet or pipe. The silicone seal continues to spring upward to accommodate movement.
The maximum pressure toilet can make is 1 or 2 PSI. Seals leak because they separate, not because of pressure.
Don't listen to this guy. He's in the pocket of big wax.
Plunging has destroyed wax seals often
I knew there was something that didn't make sense about this test but I couldn't quite figure out why. You hit the nail on the head. Very poorly designed as it doesn't replicate the conditions under which a toilet seal operates.
I have a condo in Fl. and the toilet was leaking around the bottom, so I figured the wax ring needed replacing. I installed this toilet around 14 years ago. I've always done all of my own plumbing and electrical work in my homes. Now at 81 YO, it is getting tougher, so I hired a plumber. I had all the water out of the tank so it would speed up the process. When the plumber came, and he removed the toilet, he discovered the flange was corroded and that was the failure point. In removing the old flange he broke the 4-inch pipe, he didn't have any along, so he had to go back to the shop to pick up a few more parts. To make a long story short, the charge came to $694.00 for this repair. His labor charge was $165/hour. Had I known it would have been that much, I would have done it myself even if it took all day with frequent rest stops. I figured he charged me for the time to go and get the parts because he did not have a section of 4-inch pipe in the truck, and he also charged me for the time we had a BS session after he was done for the day. Since it was his last call of the day, I offered him a soda, which he accepted. He was a nice guy, but his company was not worth $165/hour.
plumbers have ALWAYS been overpriced making at least 4 times/hr what most of their customers make but can't compete with dentists who get 4000/tooth with maybe 90 minutes invested for BOTH visits !!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER just chat with folks getting paid by the hour that work at your house. Most will charge you for every second they aren't at the shop. Worst I had was a plumber that didn't have a basic part, a silly under the sink shut-off valve, and left to get one. He was gone for 3hrs and the company billed me for it. All they were doing was connecting a dishwasher drain hose to the sink drain on a kitchen remodel. They also charged me for training the new guy who was with the plumber. I called, pretty angry, they removed the charge for the trainee but not the 3hrs they weren't at my house. It still cost me something like $350 for maybe 45 minutes of actual work, 20yrs ago.
@@bramnovak881
You are absolutely right about the No Chat rule!
Frank Zappa has a song about this called Flakes.
@@dwightdodd3734 Bur you feel better when you leave the dentist, not so after the reaming from plumbers
Born in 1970. My father made me help fix everything as soon as I was able to hold a hammer. Foam gaskets from back then, got compressed and leaked. Wax rings eventually gave out after leaks and a few retightening situations. I switched to better than wax and have had zero issues. The main outgoing sewer line for the house broke and the lowest point for it to back up was the basement toilet. Better than wax held just fine with a full to overflowing toilet and the pressure in the veritcal pipe, as it was beneath the shower upstairs. No more cleaning wads of crappy wax. If I need to change the toilet, it's a snap.
My plumber no longer uses the wax seals with hydronic heated floors. His concern is the heated floor will soften the wax too much.
been there done that and yes it will melt the wax 🙄
Ooohh very interesting, we don’t have heated floors here in TX so that’s something I would’ve never thought of.
Ahhh....makes sense
@@RogerWakefield a non-wax one would also be a better option if you are flushing your warm washing machine water through the toilet. I actually installed the same as the red one as in the video for this reason, just to be safe.
Also you should have gotten a thick metal ring to prevent the acrylic from bending as the rubber-based seal are not giving in when squished. A toilet doesn't bend like that so it wasn't a fair pressure test comparaison 😂
I have been setting toilets with wax on radiant slab floors for 21 years here in Alaska. The only time I have ever had a problem is if a toilet has a wobble and it’s not properly shimmed. I’ve never seen wax melt ever. If anything I think the warm floor makes the wax more sticky. The slab temp in my home right now is 85 in one zone and 74 in another and it’s -20 Fahrenheit outside right now. The concrete just doesn’t get all that warm. I’ve heard about “melted wax” for years, It’s a total myth.
To me, and I’m no plumber, but I believe that it really comes down to securing your toilet and preventing it from rocking. The rocking is really bad for wax because it doesn’t expand back to seal it from leaking. If you do it right, a wax ring should outlast rubber.
I agree with you i just had this issue i thought my brother didnt put the floor in correctly but the flange was just to high so it rocked i got 10 years out of the ring and just started to notice the off gasses, I took off the toilet and had to redo the whole flange to stop it from rocking back and forth it works great now.
Plumber here. Fluidmaster rubber for me. If people lose power in Florida it gets hot enough to melt the wax rings. After hurricanes come through and people loose AC I get a lot of leaking toilets. I've never had a complaint about sewer gas.
Not sure your testing really convinced me on which ring to use
Well the only rings that actually sealed around the acrylic were the wax rings...the neoprene/rubber rings definitely have their place....I prefer wax
it was a bad test and not reflective of how a toilet seals.
I love the Korky rubber rings. Ive never had an issue. Ive used the Fluidmasters, too, but prefer the Korky. Not once have i found or have had a repoet of gas coming through. It seems they're more forgiving, too, of people dropping onto rhe toilet seat or shifting the toilet, somehow.
Should have tested the Better Than Wax without the black spacer because you rarely use it. I’ve installed dozens of toilets with the Better Than Wax and I’ve only had to use the black spacer one time.
I usually only need the spacer when the floor has been retiled with thicker material
was looking for this comment. He tested tall wax and short wax, but only tall rubber/foam. Also, not sure why we're measuring the quality of seal by the amount of pressure it can withstand. Aren't we checking for a good seal? Give it a little bit of pressure to have it pressurized, making sure there is a seal at all, then do a color/smoke test. Both products should pass with flying colors XD. 3:14 he even says it should never experience this kind of pressure, or anything close to it. And, like others have said, why does he keep using that same piece of acrylic bending it more and more?
That’s the only thing they’re used for is when the flange is below the finished floor.
The instructions say to use the spacer with a flange flush or recessed to the finished floor. The only instance that the spacer isn’t used is when the flange is on the finished floor.
I have a flush flange and the spacer actually caused the toilet to sit about a half inch high at contact. I had to tighten the flange bolts to compress the foam.
Without the spacer in place, the seal didn’t make contact with the toilet.
Sometimes the floor isn't stiff enough, and the customer weighs 370 pounds. The toilet rocks a little no matter how correct the installation is, and the wax has no elastic deformation only plastic deformation - it ends up leaking. I use neoprene these days. I've had to go back and repair wax, but never rubber.
Thanks for making this video it helped out a 17yr old beginner and I swapped toilets without a mess and without a leak or drop of water
I've used both originally wax and the problem i had is the wax getting compressed down too much from people sitting on it and causing the toilet to wobble. Here about a year ago i switched to the blue one you showed in this video and it's been solid since.
I just tried the fluidmaster rubber gasket 2 days ago and it leaked! I had to pull the whole toilet back up again and used a wax ring. That's what I should have used to start with! So much for new and improved!!
Oh no! Was there a wax ring on there when you put the fluidmaster on there?
Same. Definitely prefer wax. Extra thick ones always do the job for me
Try Danco wax and rubber hybrid with sleeve
I use wax but if I use the rubber ring I put some silicone on the top before setting the tiolet.
My upstairs bathroom has had the wax ring fail twice in the seven years we've been living here (first was installed by the people who renovated the house before we bought it, second was installed by me (I am not a plumber)), and both times the ring had a large crack and also appeared to have partially dissolved or something. When it leaked the second time last summer I replaced it with a rubber ring, haven't had any more leaks so far but only time will tell if it lasts as long or longer than the wax rings have.
Both failures resulted in water dripping from the dining room ceiling any time the toilet was flushed.
I am not a plumber by trade, however, I have installed & repaired many toilets in the last 55 plus years , and I always used the wax rings and never, ever, had a failure with any of them.
I’ve had plungers ruin a few of em.
@@cantgetright742to much pressure
@@cantgetright742too much pressure on the plunger 🪠
This channel is my go to for plumbing education, great video. Helps me a ton. Liked and subscribed.
Awesome! Thank you!
I used better than wax ring for my last toilet install. I really like these - they work well and are totally re-usable. If you read the directions - you should use one or the other foam depending on how high or low your flange is set. I would definitely recommend these to homeowners.
I have replaced a lot of those rubber rings as a service plumber. I think after a while they dry up and shrink, causing the smell to come out. I had one that failed not even a month after installation. I sold the work, somebody else installed it and I felt like a real jerk having to reset this brand new toilet with wax when it should have been done right the first time.
I've had them dry up when I shut off the water while away on vacation. They leaked when I turned the water back on.
You should definitely try a stiffer/thicker piece of acrylic for these kinds of tests because the acrylic is the weak link in each test and I’m curious to see what they can really take.
This is excellent, I really depend on being able to visualize certain aspects of a job in order to feel like I'm doing it right, so seeing how the wax and rubber seals work, is really helpful for me. Thanks!
I used the Danco one that you had in your thumbnail but didn't test. That's the one that's half rubber and half wax. Worked great for my application. Floor was very uneven and I would rock the toilet too much when installing a wax ring, causing a gap. The Danco one did a great job maintaining a seal while I adjusted the toilet to make it snug.
This is a hybrid type. I love this (Danco) it is the best one. The only one I use now.
It is the only one I use. Unbelievable the best one ever made. The only problem I have with it is. It is designed here but made in China 😢
@@chipcook6646 Probably gotta keep the price reasonable.
Blue rubber works excellent, now on mine the flange is 1/4 above the floor so you don't use the foam ring just the blue rubber ring. Works fantastic and no mess. Great for science video!
I've been a Master Plumber for more than 30 years, and I promise you Wax is always better!
As a 35 year veteran service plumber I have seen my share of gadget's under toilets instead of wax. I have also had those "horned wax seals" cause stoppages. The very best seal in my opinion, with my years of experience is the jumbo was seal. It is the only one on my truck.
Always use a 110, felt or neoprene lined wax ring, ones [designed for wall hung toilets] otherwise you can blow out regular wax if plunging a main line stoppage, then rot out the flooring ! You will thank me later! Plumber Steve
I have been a G C for 20 years and the synthetic is all we use. in century homes some have heat vents shooting at toilets melting the wax over time (creating failures) and with the synthetic this does not happen. Hope this helps and Great Video!
I have used Fernco wax free toilet seals several times with no problems.
Mine started to leak on year 5.
I'm a homeowner, I replaced one of my toilets a year ago and used neoprene. No problems in the first year.
I had to replace the flange anyway, I figured it was the perfect time to go with the new product, it'll never have wax mess on it.
I use the Fernco FTS-3 3" Wax Free Toilet Seal, best on a new toilet install. They also make a 4", FTS-4 a little over 5.00 at Supply House.
@@KreemieNewgatt The adhesive on the Fernco is sticky like a mouse pad. After I put it on a new clean bowl, I put PL adhesive around the flange to bowl for extra grip and let it ry for a few days. Put a little liquid soap on the flange and inside the pipe and it slips right in. If you have one of the bowls that has a slight rocking due to floor problems Fernco will not be a problem because when it moves it does not break the seal because the final seal is IN THE PIPE not at the flange.
Ove used a foam rubber ring. My toilet did wobble, and i was able to retighten it. The amount of backpressure doesn't seem to affect the rubber seal at all. Ive had itnon for over a year now.
NEVER going back to wax. Zero problems with the rubber/foam seals (Fluidmaster Better Than Wax). You never know if the wax set right when you add pressure and you certainly can't lift it to readjust or else you're scraping wax and doing it again.
This is not a good test, because your setup won't hold the same seal as a toilet attached to a floor due to the acrylic bending. You need to do another test with a proper test bench setup. You can have a test bench similar to the one you are standing in front. Just make a hole in the top of the bench to attach you test pipe to then put your seal and attached a toilet to it properly. After that is done correctly then you can pressure test them.
DIY hone owner, bathroom remodel. New $500 Mansfield Barrett toilet with new marble tile floor.
I used the new blue better than wax silicone gasket.
The manufactured toilet sits higher from seal level sona thick or extra wax ring was needed.
After installation with wax a couple days later I had water under the toilet😢 R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring but opted for the extra thick wax this time.
2 days later YUP Water on the floor...WTAF? 😮😮
R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring, THIS TIME I opted for the blue silicone.
Easier assembling to set the toilet as a one piece unit.
2 days later AGAIN water inder the toilet... getting to be quite the toilet setting professional at this point 😂.
I bought another seal kit after taking measurements and finding this Mansfield Barrett toilet sits a little higher than the old toilet soni doubled ip the gasket sets.
2 days later WATER ON THE FLOOR.
I installed the ild toilet with one blue gasket and NO Water after a few weeks.
Did some slucing with some BLUE food coloring and found a manufacturer defect issue with the porcelain sealing around the toilet drain... SWEET $500 DOLLAR toilet and this is the quality of work.
Ordered another toilet and waiting the 2 months for delivery.
Finally installed it with a pair of blue gaskets and the world is spinning back on its axis again.
The blue seals are great. Less mess than wax BUT if you set the toilet right any seal will last for years.
I have the front bathroom toilet to R&R and will be using the blue seal for that job.
One thing about plumbers using wax is the SAME plumber probably won't be back to work on it a second time.
As a DIY home owner the wax is messy, but if uour having to pull up the toilet often you have other issues.
$500 mansfield! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 thats like a $50k yugo.
You may have a Mansfield toilet but Al Bundy had a FERGUSON ! If it was good enough for Al. . . .
I started using the rubber seals from HD a few years ago in both new builds/remodels and repair/replacing faulty wax seal rings. The good thing about them is that they are not messy, so if you need to remove/replace the toilet, you simply reuse the seal. You are correct, in that there isn't going to be that much pressure on a toilet. I specifically like using them on retro fits, because around here, we have a ton of lead downpipes into cast iron. Well, as we know, that lead can deform and leak. When you have a wax ring, it will leak, because it follows the lead when it moves. The good thing about the rubber ring is that it has an extended flange that goes down into the lead pipe, so no matter how much the lead moves/deforms while under the "normal" use of a toilet, that extended piece will cover the gap within 1 to 2.5 inches. And we also know that if your flange/downpipe separate more than 2 inches, you have issues far beyond anything that a ring seal will cover, no matter what it is made out of.
Here in the Greater New Orleans area, we have major issues with houses settling constantly due to the ground subsiding. This is followed up by the house foundation needing to be leveled again. This issue can go on for decades, where the house sinks and the foundation guys lifting. Many times the plumbing, specifically the sewer side, does not always follow the house, so the flanges under the toilets can, and does falter and need to be repaired. This is where the rubber part shines really well for me.
The thing about the rubber part is that, as you showed, it comes with the extra ring. This ring is only needed if the flange is below the tile level. you can get a second one if your flange is more than 1/2 inch below the top of the tile, but that is rare, at least in my experience. Most of the time I am not even using the extra foam ring, and the rubber ring seal works just fine.
While I have only been using these for a few years now, I have never had one fail. One other great thing about them is that if the toilet needs to be removed for tile work or needs to be adjusted a little bit, it will not require a new wax ring.
I just used one in my own house last weekend, because the lead down pipe had deformed and separated just a 1/8th inch and you guessed it, it leaked. Of course my wife called me, frantic because the ceiling of the coat closet on the main floor had started to leak. So when I got home, I ripped the sheetrock open and saw a tiny little drip. I knew exactly what it was, ran up the block to HD and bought a rubber ring, repaired the deformed lead pipe and installed the new rubber gasket.
Hey Roger, I just ran into this choice. I didn't buy them, the home owner did. I did a tile job in a couple bathrooms. The customer got this real thick cement covered foam board, instead of 1/4" Hardy backer. By the time I was done, the flange was now real deep below the tile. I told customer I needed the Jumbo wax ring. He brought those and the foam type. I wanted to try the foam type. With the toilet on the foam, it wasn't even squishing the seal down. So, I just used the jumbo wax ring. Worked great.
for very tall gaps, some recommend stacking an additional rubber/foam kit, so it can have as many as 2 rubber rings and 4 foam rings.
@@jkhijirida I've never seen an additional kit that I can buy. I'd have to get another foam ring and use the ones that come with it. And they aren't cheap.
@@macD723 you buy two whole kits and stack them one on top of each other. yeah, not cheap, but it's better than a leaky joint.
Years ago, I switched to the 'Better Than Wax' and never had a leak since. I believe that some plumbers use wax because they know it it's cheap and will eventually leak from small movements of the toilet. That means another call to install a new wax ring.
Two wax rings, cheap enough to create a proper seal.
When I first moved in there were roots growing in my sewer pipe and it required several runs with the auger to finally clear the drain. Luckily I have not had to auger the pipe for a couple of years now but after the second time pulling up the commode to run the big boy I went back with a silicone seal and it has proven to be a great seal and no mess to clean up. No more wax for me!
The plexiglass flexes where the toilet won't. I don't think this really tells us anything....
The wax will give before the toilet or the plexiglass, path of least resistance. So I think it's telling us something.
@@billrowan1957 so... how do you explain the plexiglass flexing at 5 minutes, 38 seconds? Plexi is a very soft, flexible material. In order to create a proper seal at that thickness it probably would have needed at least 8 equidistant bolts... and even then with plexi that thin, it might have cracked under pressure (probably radiating out from a bolt hole).
Probably 10 years ago now I was using a rubber accordion type toilet seal. It went on the horn of a clean toilet with a double sided tape, that was super tough, then you opened it up and set it allowing it to collapse as you set it, I would use them in a retirement home when I had a tenant who continuously broke their wax ring
I have tried many seals in multiple countries. The Aussies got it figured out, but the American toilets are still behind the times. That being said , i like the wax better. Have never gotten a callback on the wax, had at least 1 on the rubber. One callback is enough for me, no more rubber.
What do the aussies do?
I’m with QBall, what do the Aussie do?
@@RogerWakefieldthey go in the woods 😜
Their toilets are built a little different. They have an extended seal area on the bottom with a rubber seal that gets mounted instead of a toilet flange.
I can't post a picture, but the rubber seal is easily replaced, and the toilet van be pulled and reset multiple times on the same seal.
I've installed several dozen of the FluidMaster wax free toilet seals with no problems and no call backs. However, I have recently switched to using the Fernco wax free toilet seals. They have a long finned spigot that goes down inside the drain pipe, and they have a top ring of adhesive that glues them to the bottom of the toilet. Between the tight fit into the drain pipe and the adhesive seal to the toilet, they seem to be absolute proof against sewer gases or leakage. You do have to carry the three different pipe sizes which are 3, 3 1/2, and 4 inch pipe sizes. Most recently I've been using a similar wax free seal from ACEDUROBLA. It's very similar to the fernco, but it has a much more aggressive adhesive for gluing it to the toilet spigot.
where can buy ACEDUROBLA in he USA ??
Mine failed at 5 years.
That flimsy plexiglass cover isn't representative of the hard ceramic base of the toilet. The plexiglass should have been 1/2 inch thick.
I have used the rubber gasket on both of my toilets and 7 years on I still don’t have any leaks. For my small sample size they seem to work great.
I have an old house and used the red rubber/foam ring you showed off last. With how much my house moves in the winter/summer I wouldn’t do wax.
Half of my doors don’t shut in the winter due to the house movement lol. In two years I haven’t had issues yet. I have even moved my toilet a couple of times to redo the floor and paint behind it. It was nice not having to go back to the store to get a new ring. No sewer smells.
Those are probably not house movement but expansion/shrinkage of the wood due to changes in humidity.
From my own experience, I've had bad luck with the foam/rubber/silicone rings Yes. they're easier to clean up, but I've had to replace two of them because they did not seal completely I had to use the extra thick wax ring in those instances.
Wax all day but I do hate cleaning it up 😭
I’m right there with you brother…cleaning off the wax from the plexiglass in between testing was so difficult 😅
try those blue monster hand cleaning wipes. cleans wax right up
During a renovation, the need arose to set and remove the toilet a few times. A no-wax seal came in handy in that specific scenario. I think the final set was done in wax.
This is bad science. The acrylic flexes too much not a fair test for any of the seals. You push a toilet flush then secure in location with the bolts. A toilet won't flex like that.
I'm using a better than wax ring on my TOTO Drake bidet for about 1 year now and it seems to be going strong with no issues and no smell at all.
Please turn off the broken record. It's distracting.
I learned with wax about 40 years ago. I don't know how many of those I've installed. About 5 years ago I tried the rubber type. Looked interesting. I don't carry wax anymore. They're too much trouble for me. I've had applications where wax will last for 3 years, then fail. Water comes to the ceiling below. Since I switched to rubber, no more problems. I can send even a new guy out and there won't be a problem. At least not with the toilet soil stack. He may screw up the water supply or something else.
With toilet and tourque wrench for fair comparison would have made more sense
I was about to say that there seem to be a lot of unknowns with the way Rodger is testing this one. Would love to see a more practical experiment but I’m sure it would have similar results
I switched to the rubber rings and have had zero problems with them. Love them.
I had a rubber blow out- now I have a kid.
oof...I think we're talking about two different rubbers LMAO
Unlike rubber, which will eventually deteriorate, wax will last forever. As long as the toilet never gets loose and wobbles around, because wax does not have much flexibility with motion.
Unlike wax, which will break apart with movement of the toilet, rubber will easily flex with movement and maintain its seal as long as the toilet does not get too loose.
I have seen wax last 40 years or more. Let's see rubber last that long.
I am a General Contractor and I have been wondering about these for so long. I've used both, have had no problems with the new rubber seals (especially when dealing with older homes that suffer from people just laying new flooring on old flooring or those flanges just being before floor level), but I have not found a definitive answer for what is better. I mean, I like being able to reuse the rubber and not having to clean up that messy wax, but I just don't know which is better. I seriously question how the rubber seal holds up to a plunger because plunging creates a lot of pressure. I wish someone, somewhere could come up with a definitive answer.
My personal favorite is the sani-seal. Never had a leak or any problems with it. I've seen the aftermath of plenty of leaky wax rings.
I've installed two DANCO All-In-One Toilet Installation Kits under my two new Jacuzzi 1.8 gall toilets and it's five years without an issue. I used them because the bathroom had two floors and the flange was below the floor surface and with their added height compressed to make a good seal.
I tried two of the non-wax designs in November 2023 with a 16 year old Toto and neither fit up properly and they leaked. Back to double wax and bingo- no leaks. Toilets are not glazed or smooth on the bottom- so the flexible (rubber/silicon) seals don’t fit up leak free. As compared to wax which fills the voids and seals.
10:20 "Have y'all ever had a rubber blow out?" That's how I got my daughter.
Problem is with the circular flange most of the time wood around the toilet is rotted or does not cover around the pipe, you can not screw it on the toilet floor because there is no wood to screw it to, flanges has to be like square shaped that can be secured to the floor wood with the bolts most of the time the flange screws does not grab the floor.
I used that korky rubber one that didn't hold any air in your test. It hasn't leaked after a year and I'm happy with it. I think if your floor shifts it your toilet wobbles you are better off with a rubber and foam ring due to the elasticity.
I’d be interested in knowing what the pressure of an average plunge is
I'm in the "it works" and it's not a mess to clean up. Yes they cost a little bit more but the foam rings work just fine in my apartments and I don't have a mess to clean up when a kid flushes their tooth brush down the toilet like happened last week. The few bucks more the foam rings cost more than pays for its self by the labor savings for cleaning up the wax ring. This doesn't even include buying a new wax ring if you miss on the first time.
I bought my mobile home 18 years ago and installed the better than wax toilet seals and I've never had a problem with them.
the foam ring isn't used if your flange is level to the floor, so the rubber will hold better alone. I've done 3 toilets in my house and helped with 2 in neighbors houses. They work great.
I'm a DIYer. I replaced our 3 toilets. First 2 included wax rings which I used with no problems. Third was a fancier model, different brand. The oval heads of the anchoring bolts were too small and kept popping loose. After junking 3 rings (3 trips to the hardware store), I bought a foam ring. It allowed a few futile tries to find the problem. The old bolts and foam ring have been odor free for 2 years, so far.
I'm sold on the rubber ones. Wax is a one shot deal. If you find that something isn't quite right, and have to remove the toilet after smashing, your wax ring is ruined. Sometimes wax rings can split. The good rubber ones have a long snoot that goes further down the pipe, and a thick, soft closed cell rubber foam ring that really conforms to seal. If you have to remove and reseat the toilet, no problem.
Fantastic job! I learned something today. You do a great job of explaining to the non-plumbers such as myself, what you think is best for certain applications. I was hoping the foam gaskets worked better, but like you said, wax has been the best way to go. Thank you sir!
I have used the foam seals for years now, and they work great. They are used on motorhomes, and I figured if they worked in a home during an earthquake (motorhome driving down the road), they would work on a stationary home.
I put a rubber one on my fiancé's toilet and it was there for 6 years with no problems. She moved to my town and we got married. We used the rubber gasket on the front toilet and we did that in 2019. It is still working correctly. We used the green rubber one.
We have two bathrooms and had wax ring fail twice on both! I used the hybrid one that has both wax and rubber which allows you to reset the toilet if you had to. fast forward two years and no problems yet.
Ive only replaced a wax seal once in my 70 years. Used a big wax one because it needed a quick fix and the ring was below the floor surface, so I wanted to make sure it sealed even if it squished all over underneath. I have spoken to plumbers and agree that the non wax ring is much better
Great vid, thanks for putting it together. To me, the unknown is how long the rubber/silicone lasts. I've seen various formulations of seals deteriorate over time. Wax, on the other hand really never falls apart, something else changes that makes the seal go bad usually. The pressure test is interesting but you really don't get much pressure pushing out. That being said I like the easy clean up of the rubber seals and I might try one next time.
Lol I tried all of these. I'm not a plumber just a home owner and found that a normal wax ring works best if your flange is properly installed. Yes the rubber ones are less messy but how many time do you replace your toilet really think about it. I still have the same one from 25 years ago. 1 properly installed wax ring will last you a lifetime.
I have moved away from wax rings, too many problems. I use the blue rubber ring in all of my rental homes and my personal home. I now have less issues and have simplified the work. I have never had a rubber ring leak.
homeowner, used a korky seal 4 years ago. Basement has an open ceiling and the toilet drain is visible. 0 leaks.
Ever since I discovered the Danco perfect toilet wax ring seal, I don't use anything else. It's clean and seals perfectly fine.
When we built the house I used a rubber seal on one toilet and 35 years and a toilet change later later it is still holding. The other bathroom toilet has a wax ring which has leaked twice and been replaced three times.
I install the blue foam seal 6 years ago and have been working 100%ok no odors no leaks ,easier to work than the sticky wax seal!