Toilet Wax vs Rubber: Which Works Better?
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
- Toilet Wax vs Rubber: Which Works Better?
NO ONE wants sewer gases getting back up into their house...discover which type of seal - wax or rubber - holds up best under intense pressure, a crucial factor in ensuring leak-free, reliable toilet installations. This video is perfect for plumbers, DIY enthusiasts, and homeowners alike who seek a deeper understanding of the intricacies involved in selecting the right materials for toilet installations. Get ready to uncover the strengths and weaknesses of wax and rubber toilet rings, and find out which one triumphs as the superior choice in the world of plumbing!"
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⏰ Chapters:
Intro ▶️ 00:00
Wax ring ▶️ 01:28
Extra-thick wax ring ▶️ 04:17
Better than wax ring ▶️ 06:18
Korky rubber ring ▶️ 09:12
Final thoughts ▶️ 10:40
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Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, The Expert Plumber, and welcome to my channel. On this channel, it's ALL about plumbing. We play games, we experiment, and we have FUN here, talking and learning about all things plumbing!
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I like the test but you can see the acrylic is bending which won’t be a good seal so something stiffer would have been a better test for both in my opinion
I agree. I am no plumber by but I use these in all my toilets at the apartments I work at as I go. Somewhere around 100 toilets it’s the past 4 years I’ve had one instance where I couldn’t use one. Time saved is massive. Between cleanup and not scrapping the old ring off. It’s so much easier to do and they work. When you have a proper seal I believe they are better. Just make sure you gasket flange isn’t broken.
Which couldn't that be a better test, the flooring under toilets sometimes bends right? so wouldn't you want a worst case test
@@johndorian4078 yes, the floor may have bends but the seal doesn't touch the floor so it has no influence. The weak point of this test is the acrylic sheet used on the end. It is clearly not as stiff as a toilet bottom and is skewing the results. I've used both and after the first no wax seal you couldn't pay me to go back to wax. The toilet in my current house had a wax seal that was leaking so I replaced it and within months it was leaking again. Switched to a no wax seal and it hasn't leaked in 25 years now and that includes having removed the toilet once to redo the floor and and another time to gain access to the space behind the toilet for painting. Never had a drip or an odor of sewer gases leak through it.
Yea a toilet is not going to flex like the acrylic did.
@@johndorian4078 Plus a toilet is much heavier and puts an equal amount of pressure around the seal.
to be fair, if you're putting 25 PSI of air pressure on your toilet, you eat way too many beans.
Or all you can eat hot wings
But they’re the magical fruit…
@@RogerWakefield The more you eat, the more you toot.
1psi= 2.307 ft high back up
@@braindejong9606 so that means a 57 foot tall toilet. which misses the joke, entirely.
When I did apartment maintenance, I switched over to the better then wax. Worked well for me. I like that there is no wax to clean up. Other bonus, it can be reused incase you set the toilet down off center.
Exactly. If you accidentally set the toilet down wrong. You just move it with a rubber seal. With wax.....you have miserable cleanup on your hands if you have degraded the wax to the point that the entire thing needs to be replaced.
I do apartment maintenance and use the neoprene seals instead of wax. Our buildings are old and I have had to deal with several leaking wax rings. Once a wax ring looses it's seal and gets wet it doesn't tend to reseal, the neoprene rings will reseal. That is the big advantage for me.
I’ve seen the rubber rings work from having to pull toilets for other various reasons, but I’ve never used them myself.
@@drmodestoesq ~ Landlord and I installed a new lo-flow toilet upstairs and used the neoprene seal. That was probably 8 or so years ago and still no leak and it is nice not to be concerned about incorrect placement wrecking the wax ring.
I'm a licensed plumber in New Mexico and I've done service work for 6 years. now I'm in a maintenance position for an apartment complex. Since the first time I tried "Better Than Wax" five years ago, I decided that I was never going back to wax. I've installed hundreds of the foam/rubber ring seals and I've never gotten a call-back or experienced any type of issue related to a toilet I've set using that product. Two things I swear by: "Better Than Wax" and siliconized acrylic caulking in place traditional plumber's putty or for any instance requiring a sanitary seal. This type of caulking is the easiest to use and clean up because, prior to setting up and curing, it's water soluble - just takes a damp rag and washes right off hands and tools. It's also safe on drains because it just dissolves in water on clean up. Once it's set and cured (think basket strainer or disposal adapter installation in a kitchen sink basin) it holds it's seal very well and stays worlds cleaner than putty could ever be capable of.
Thanks for the tip on the caulking gonna try that
@@WalrusMcDonald12n2na2The siliconized acrylic caulk works great for sink rims and sealing gaps in wood trim before painting. Alex Plus is one brand I use but others also work well.
I've set thousands of toilets in my life with no issue and wax. But I always insist on getting that WC flange bolted to the top of the floor like it should be. You're starting behind the eight ball if it's too high or below the floor surface. I see new installs all the time where they set a knock-out flange in the subfloor before the floor people have finished. I can only assume they do that so they can get their water/air test done for the inspector. Putting a rubber test plug in the stub-up pipe I guess is too complicated. And....use the next size pipe around your stub-up so you can come back later and set your flange. I do agree on the siliconized sealer though or 100% silicone. Those Hercules wipes will easily remove any silicone residue....and even denatured alcohol will work. I haven't used plumber's putty for yrs now....just sits in the truck. Nothing wrong with it, it's just that silicone and siliconized caulk are so much better.
@TheReal1953 I'm sure there have been plenty of issues. You just weren't called back for them. Rubber is way better. Not a big concern on a slab. But on pier and beam, especially a trailer house, with particle board floors. Often times the toilet will shift on those weak floors and disturb the wax ring after a few years causing a leak. Not so with rubber.
I always use rubber seals because you are guaranteed a leak free install indefinetely. Also if they ever upgrade there is no need to buy a new ring. It's just better than wax.
@@mr.upcycle9589I always told customers to 'call me if there is a problem, not cuss me'. I have a good record, but not claiming I 'never' had callbacks. But they usually weren't toilet set issues unless the users were obese or the floor gave way for some structural reason. I'm not condemning rubber WC seals in any way. Just commenting that logically, one would abandon wax seals if they were a continuing issue. In my experience, they were not.
I've used the exact same Fluidmaster foam rings when I needed to do underlayment repairs under the toilets in our house. I've been pleased with the results.
Note: That is a 2 piece system. You don't necessarily have to use both black & blue foam rings. The black piece is used if the flange is below floor level and additional seal is necessary.
Really enjoy your videos & tips.
I'm an old guy, and after wrestling with replacing a wax ring today, I'm switching to rubber next time. These old knees have had five surgeries, and all the scar tissue across the face of the knee caps does NOT like kneeling on tile floors any more, and especially so if I kneel on a closet bolt or a nut.
The tests are a great idea. Thank you for doing this. I'd like to see a couple of things changed on the tests, and see if you have a revised reaction. The pressure gauge should be moved to the pressure chamber. Right now, it is only reading the pressure in the hose. There is a large pressure drop across the Schrader valve when you are pumping, which masks your results. The other thing, is that if you use another metal ring or even a PVC flange over the acrylic plate, you would have even pressure around the whole seal, and would eliminate the bending of the plate, which also masks your result.
Should have a metal ring for the acrylic plate to keep it flat.
My buddy is a GC and I helped him set with the blue one, also installed the blue one in my house. No issues, no sewer gas. Makes me more likely to upgrade my toilet because I don't have to deal with the wax next time.
The problem you were having with the non-wax seals is that the piece of acrylic you were using was warping severely preventing it from being able to seal. That's a problem you won't see against the porcelain of a toilet. I've used them in my house and never needed to replace one after putting it in. I'm sure they'll fail eventually as all things do but to me they work incredibly well.
Yes. The warping acrylic issue is mentioned in the video. No Thanks for re-stating what the video states.
Landlord here, I've laid 2 toilets personally with better than wax seals, and haven't had a single problem yet! I like them because, I'm not a plumber. I don't have the repetitive skills honed in like one. So it's significantly more forgiving using the better than wax seals. My landlord friends also use better than wax seals, and they swear by them! It's really a great deal to have some leeway installing toilets, for only $10.
The maximum pressure that a ring can hold is not a real world issue. A rocking or unstable issue is an issue. Use very little pressure but rock the acrylic sheet to simulate a wobbling toilet to see what seal gives the best real-world performance.
I'm a home owner and have used several of these and they seem to work really well. Especially, if you have lift the toilet for some reason, you don't have a gooey wax mess to clean up.
I used the Korky rubber ring during my bathroom remodel, as it allowed our contractor to reinstall the toilet every day without having to use a new wax ring each time.
The Korky Wax Free ring is made in Burlington, WI.
I've replaced literally thousands of toilet flappers. Korky makes by far and away the best toilet replacement flapper. You pay a bit more....but they're worth it.
Should have tested the Better Than Wax without the black spacer because you rarely use it. I’ve installed dozens of toilets with the Better Than Wax and I’ve only had to use the black spacer one time.
I usually only need the spacer when the floor has been retiled with thicker material
So for me I've been using the better than wax. For probably 6 years now. I've always been a big fan of wax. And I'm still using wax in certain occasions. But a lot of these new toilate, they have no grip to hold when you're trying to install them. They're odd shaped a lot of times they have these funky designs where you have to insyall the bolts. Inside the bowl so I started using the better than wax. Because it was a way I could get a seal. Cause you have to keep working the toilet sometimes to get the these funky toilets to set the way you want to. And that's just what has worked for me with some of these different toilet designs. But I've never really had any issue with it. And I really don't use the foam piece unless it's. Like specifically, an upstairs toilet situation where maybe the flange is sitting just just a little bit too low and I'll give that to my customers as an option as opposed to redoing the entire upstairs flange, which reinstalling the flange at the right height is the better option. But sometimes with budgets, people can't afford those kinds of repairs when they want to. And have to save up for the repair costs. So it's a kind of a Get me by Repair, but I've had a lot of success with the better than wax myself.
Not a plumber but diy'er...used 'The Green Gasket' sani seal from Home Depot and it worked great. Almost 10 years later and still no leaks. My dad still prefers the wax rings though.
The green ones of 10 years ago were better as they had a flange that extended down into the pipe about 2 or 3 inches; the redesign omitted that feature
I will disagree. It is a great idea until you have to plunge and water would go up over the round part and leak out the bottom. I just changed the ring from say 4 yrs ago which I had a green foam ring. It was deformed and as soggy as a kitchen sponge.
@@KreemieNewgatt Yes mine did have the downward flange that directed waste into the drain I haven't tried one since that one as I haven't had to replace a toilet since then. If the new ones omit that design that seems like a bad idea.
@@scottratcliffe6337 you disagree that mine worked for 10 years without issue? How would you know that it did or didn't?
Homeowner. Replaced all 4 seals with rubber years ago. Never had a leak so far.
Hey Roger, I just ran into this choice. I didn't buy them, the home owner did. I did a tile job in a couple bathrooms. The customer got this real thick cement covered foam board, instead of 1/4" Hardy backer. By the time I was done, the flange was now real deep below the tile. I told customer I needed the Jumbo wax ring. He brought those and the foam type. I wanted to try the foam type. With the toilet on the foam, it wasn't even squishing the seal down. So, I just used the jumbo wax ring. Worked great.
I switched all wax rings to the blue rubber product you showed. Going strong for 7 years now even when one toilet shifted and rotated.
The seals are not the issue its when the toilet starts to wobble that is the issue. Wax or Rubber they will both seal for a very long time. I always wondered why there were not more than 2 bolts to hold it all down. If you had a 3rd ideally a 4th bolt on a toilet they would last a lot longer. People 'shift' when sitting on the bowl... that is the problem.
I thought the same thing until I noticed my crazy in-laws rotated the guest bathroom toilet 10 degrees somehow. I was sure it was going to need a new seal, but with a thermal camera and water tester it showed no leaks so I'll let it ride after straightening and tightening it back up.@@gags730
Most people are heavier these days.@@gags730
@@gags730 I remember when toilets had 4 bolts.
@@James-dt7ky Really? You would think they would have at least 3. Like the 3rd bolt in the back and for cosmetic reason I can see not having one in front
I have used both wax and rubber. You're right about no clean with rubber. I have not had any issues with rubber.
You should definitely try a stiffer/thicker piece of acrylic for these kinds of tests because the acrylic is the weak link in each test and I’m curious to see what they can really take.
To me, and I’m no plumber, but I believe that it really comes down to securing your toilet and preventing it from rocking. The rocking is really bad for wax because it doesn’t expand back to seal it from leaking. If you do it right, a wax ring should outlast rubber.
My plumber no longer uses the wax seals with hydronic heated floors. His concern is the heated floor will soften the wax too much.
been there done that and yes it will melt the wax 🙄
Ooohh very interesting, we don’t have heated floors here in TX so that’s something I would’ve never thought of.
Ahhh....makes sense
@@RogerWakefield a non-wax one would also be a better option if you are flushing your warm washing machine water through the toilet. I actually installed the same as the red one as in the video for this reason, just to be safe.
Also you should have gotten a thick metal ring to prevent the acrylic from bending as the rubber-based seal are not giving in when squished. A toilet doesn't bend like that so it wasn't a fair pressure test comparaison 😂
I have been setting toilets with wax on radiant slab floors for 21 years here in Alaska. The only time I have ever had a problem is if a toilet has a wobble and it’s not properly shimmed. I’ve never seen wax melt ever. If anything I think the warm floor makes the wax more sticky. The slab temp in my home right now is 85 in one zone and 74 in another and it’s -20 Fahrenheit outside right now. The concrete just doesn’t get all that warm. I’ve heard about “melted wax” for years, It’s a total myth.
I have used Fernco wax free toilet seals several times with no problems.
This is excellent, I really depend on being able to visualize certain aspects of a job in order to feel like I'm doing it right, so seeing how the wax and rubber seals work, is really helpful for me. Thanks!
I have a condo in Fl. and it was leaking around the bottom, so I figured the wax ring needed replacing. I installed this toilet around 14 years ago. I've always done all of my own plumbing and electrical work in my homes. Now at 81 YO, it is getting tougher, so I hired a plumber. I had all of the water out of the tank so it would speed up the process. When the plumber came and he removed the toilet he discovered the flange was corroded and that was the failure point. In removing the old flange he broke the 4-inch pipe, he didn't have any along so he had to go back to the shop to pick up a few more parts. To make a long story short the charge came to $694.00 for this repair. His labor charge was $165/hour. Had I known it would have been that much I would have done it myself even if it took all day with frequent rest stops. I figured he charged me for the time to go and get the parts because he did not have a section of 4-inch pipe in the truck, and he also charged me for the time we had a BS session after he was done for the day. Since it was his last call for the day I offered him a soda, which he accepted. He was a nice guy but his company was not worth $165/hour.
I love the Korky rubber rings. Ive never had an issue. Ive used the Fluidmasters, too, but prefer the Korky. Not once have i found or have had a repoet of gas coming through. It seems they're more forgiving, too, of people dropping onto rhe toilet seat or shifting the toilet, somehow.
Korky retrofit fill valves are great as well
Probably 10 years ago now I was using a rubber accordion type toilet seal. It went on the horn of a clean toilet with a double sided tape, that was super tough, then you opened it up and set it allowing it to collapse as you set it, I would use them in a retirement home when I had a tenant who continuously broke their wax ring
This channel is my go to for plumbing education, great video. Helps me a ton. Liked and subscribed.
Awesome! Thank you!
My upstairs bathroom has had the wax ring fail twice in the seven years we've been living here (first was installed by the people who renovated the house before we bought it, second was installed by me (I am not a plumber)), and both times the ring had a large crack and also appeared to have partially dissolved or something. When it leaked the second time last summer I replaced it with a rubber ring, haven't had any more leaks so far but only time will tell if it lasts as long or longer than the wax rings have.
Both failures resulted in water dripping from the dining room ceiling any time the toilet was flushed.
I'm using a better than wax ring on my TOTO Drake bidet for about 1 year now and it seems to be going strong with no issues and no smell at all.
I just tried the fluidmaster rubber gasket 2 days ago and it leaked! I had to pull the whole toilet back up again and used a wax ring. That's what I should have used to start with! So much for new and improved!!
Oh no! Was there a wax ring on there when you put the fluidmaster on there?
Same. Definitely prefer wax. Extra thick ones always do the job for me
I have used the rubber gasket on both of my toilets and 7 years on I still don’t have any leaks. For my small sample size they seem to work great.
I am not a plumber by trade, however, I have installed & repaired many toilets in the last 55 plus years , and I always used the wax rings and never, ever, had a failure with any of them.
When I installed my new toilet about 10 years ago, I used a rubbery plastic seal. It had an adhesive flange that stuck to the bottom of the toilet, and an extension with ring barbs that fit snugly into the pipe. It looked like the Fernco FTX models, except that it was blue. To ensure the adhesive didn't eventually fail, I made a compressible ring of foam pipe insulation to fit under it, providing a constant upward force against it.
Hasn't leaked yet. I also grouted the toilet to the tile floor to provide a solid mounting, so as not to stress the seal. (If it leaks, I'll see it in the basement.)
I installed the oetey red rubber seal back in 2017 on all three of my toilets and i have had no issues at all. Northern Michigan one toilet is in the basement.
About 24 years ago we had our old house jacked up and sort of leveled. I replaced all of the plumbing my self. Switched from galvanized pipe and cast iron to all PVC and CPVC. Put in a new toilet and used a standard wax ring. It started leaking so I replaced it. The new one started leaking. I replaced it with the thicker wax ring and it started leaking. I think the reason was that the toilet was rocking or moving. I found a seal called Sani Seal which was made of some type of green rubber or plastic foam. It has been under the same toilet for all these years and has never leaked. I still have an extra wax ring in the cabinet just in case. On this same note I watch Drain Addict on YT in Australia. They have completely different toilet mounting types over there that I didn't know existed.
The plexiglass flexes where the toilet won't. I don't think this really tells us anything....
The wax will give before the toilet or the plexiglass, path of least resistance. So I think it's telling us something.
I used the Danco one that you had in your thumbnail but didn't test. That's the one that's half rubber and half wax. Worked great for my application. Floor was very uneven and I would rock the toilet too much when installing a wax ring, causing a gap. The Danco one did a great job maintaining a seal while I adjusted the toilet to make it snug.
This is a hybrid type. I love this (Danco) it is the best one. The only one I use now.
It is the only one I use. Unbelievable the best one ever made. The only problem I have with it is. It is designed here but made in China 😢
@@chipcook6646 Probably gotta keep the price reasonable.
Sometimes the floor isn't stiff enough, and the customer weighs 370 pounds. The toilet rocks a little no matter how correct the installation is, and the wax has no elastic deformation only plastic deformation - it ends up leaking. I use neoprene these days. I've had to go back and repair wax, but never rubber.
I've used both originally wax and the problem i had is the wax getting compressed down too much from people sitting on it and causing the toilet to wobble. Here about a year ago i switched to the blue one you showed in this video and it's been solid since.
". . .from people sitting on it "
What exactly should they be doing? 🤔😉😂
Plumber here. Fluidmaster rubber for me. If people lose power in Florida it gets hot enough to melt the wax rings. After hurricanes come through and people loose AC I get a lot of leaking toilets. I've never had a complaint about sewer gas.
I have used the rubber rings in areas where I have needed to remove a toilet more than once. This was in a construction project that required me to replace it to have a functioning toilet. It also compensates very well for tile elevated surfaces where the lock ring is low. They also work better in warmer climates and heated floors. I used to use the double wax ring and it works well, but can be messy on removal.
Eight years ago (Dec 2015) I used the 7530 Toilet seal kit "better than wax" from Fluidmaster. So far so good. No leaks. No sewer gas. It outlived the tank. The tank recently developed a hairline crack and a leak. Replaced the tank but kept the bowl in place still attached to the floor with seal inside. I am not a plumber by any means. Just a home owner.
Not sure your testing really convinced me on which ring to use
Well the only rings that actually sealed around the acrylic were the wax rings...the neoprene/rubber rings definitely have their place....I prefer wax
it was a bad test and not reflective of how a toilet seals.
Fantastic job! I learned something today. You do a great job of explaining to the non-plumbers such as myself, what you think is best for certain applications. I was hoping the foam gaskets worked better, but like you said, wax has been the best way to go. Thank you sir!
Been following for a while, just from curiosity, but now this is valuable to me in my new job. Where I work I get asked about products like this but I don't know anything about plumbing. The video didn't teach me much but your comment section did! 😅 cool idea though! Just not a perfect test, lol. Maybe do a followup video reading some of the comments from DIYers and pros, since you said you don't use both products, and adjusting this test or trying a different test. Or no test at all. Lol. ✌️
When I first moved in there were roots growing in my sewer pipe and it required several runs with the auger to finally clear the drain. Luckily I have not had to auger the pipe for a couple of years now but after the second time pulling up the commode to run the big boy I went back with a silicone seal and it has proven to be a great seal and no mess to clean up. No more wax for me!
Two wax rings, cheap enough to create a proper seal.
I'm a home owner and I use the better than wax seal. I don't have any leaks or smells and it's been several years. I put one in my church with the same outcome. Also, the one at church I recently had to remove the toilet for water line issue and when I put the toilet back I had no issues with it resealing and that was a couple of years ago when I replaced the wax seal.
DIY hone owner, bathroom remodel. New $500 Mansfield Barrett toilet with new marble tile floor.
I used the new blue better than wax silicone gasket.
The manufactured toilet sits higher from seal level sona thick or extra wax ring was needed.
After installation with wax a couple days later I had water under the toilet😢 R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring but opted for the extra thick wax this time.
2 days later YUP Water on the floor...WTAF? 😮😮
R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring, THIS TIME I opted for the blue silicone.
Easier assembling to set the toilet as a one piece unit.
2 days later AGAIN water inder the toilet... getting to be quite the toilet setting professional at this point 😂.
I bought another seal kit after taking measurements and finding this Mansfield Barrett toilet sits a little higher than the old toilet soni doubled ip the gasket sets.
2 days later WATER ON THE FLOOR.
I installed the ild toilet with one blue gasket and NO Water after a few weeks.
Did some slucing with some BLUE food coloring and found a manufacturer defect issue with the porcelain sealing around the toilet drain... SWEET $500 DOLLAR toilet and this is the quality of work.
Ordered another toilet and waiting the 2 months for delivery.
Finally installed it with a pair of blue gaskets and the world is spinning back on its axis again.
The blue seals are great. Less mess than wax BUT if you set the toilet right any seal will last for years.
I have the front bathroom toilet to R&R and will be using the blue seal for that job.
One thing about plumbers using wax is the SAME plumber probably won't be back to work on it a second time.
As a DIY home owner the wax is messy, but if uour having to pull up the toilet often you have other issues.
If it's not the phone that's causing the problem but it's not sealing right you may need a thicker piece of plexiglass so it doesn't Flex so much because it may be flexing a little bit when you tighten on the ends not making a complete ringed seal the wax will conform to the bend in the in the plexiglass but the Rubber seal needs a flat surface to work this my suggestion. Cuz I've used one, and it's been 2 years or 3 and no sign of failure yet, and that was the blue first one you used. I install one for a friend of mine and it's held up really well for that whole time so far still working
I've used them for a while now I like them
which one?
@@RogerWakefield I like the rubber ones
I used the silicone ring without the foam because my flange is proud. So far, so good, and one thing is for sure; the silicone is easy, and incredibly noob-friendly. My only issue was the flange was all busted up where the bolts go, but thankfully the previous house owners had put a steel flange repair ring on it.
As a DIYer homeowner I would like to know if the wax ring is meant to seal fluid & gases? I'm asking because after using a plunger to unstop a toilet it started leaking water around the base afterwards. I enjoyed your demonstration. One factor that may have to be duplicated is the toilet surrounds the wax ring when it is set on top of it. That insures a better seal in the field.
I used a rubber seal in the past and had no trouble with it. I would be interested to know if there are problems 5 years or more after installation...
I have a question, just had my flange and gasket replaced by a plumber when I asked if he was using wax o rubber, he replaced both. Is that a good idea in your opinion and thanks for the video - informative.
I used a rubber ring 3 years ago and no issues so far. it is on a hardwood 1/2 bath so I used a the thick option.
While I am not a plumber, I have set many dozens of toilets over the decades. I have never liked the wax rings because they are so stinking messy and hard to clean up. I started using waxless rings when I first saw them in the late 90's and have never had one fail. On the other hand, I have seen many wax rings fail for various reasons, mostly due to an improperly set toilet.
I had my parents' bathroom remodeled back in 2012 after my dad had a stroke. Due to them having only one bathroom, the man I hired to do the remodel needed to install, uninstall, and reinstall the toilet many times over the course of the remodel so that both of my parents could use it when necessary. We used a waxless ring, and it never failed. In fact, my brother bought the place and has lived there since 2014, and replaced the toilet in 2022, reusing the waxless ring that was installed on the old toilet 10 years earlier, and it has worked perfectly since then as well.
I will probably always use some sort of waxless ring when setting a toilet.
My personal favorite is the sani-seal. Never had a leak or any problems with it. I've seen the aftermath of plenty of leaky wax rings.
I am a General Contractor and I have been wondering about these for so long. I've used both, have had no problems with the new rubber seals (especially when dealing with older homes that suffer from people just laying new flooring on old flooring or those flanges just being before floor level), but I have not found a definitive answer for what is better. I mean, I like being able to reuse the rubber and not having to clean up that messy wax, but I just don't know which is better. I seriously question how the rubber seal holds up to a plunger because plunging creates a lot of pressure. I wish someone, somewhere could come up with a definitive answer.
Interesting test. Couple thoughts.
1. The plastic cover wasn't stiff enough to get an flat seal.
2. Would be cool to see these tested on an actual toilet as well. Which one is more forgiving and keeps a seal over time.
Something else I say a local plumber do was double up on the wax rings.. Maybe cover that topic as well.
In NYC when we have Radiant floor heat we use Foam or rubber so it doesnt melt and stain any stone floors
I usually use wax but last week I used the rubber product product sold at Home Depot for $10. Toilet flange on center was 11.5 in from the wall and was a tight fit touching the back wall. Toilet flange had a repair split ring flange and the top of the flange was 3/4 below the tile. I used the rubber because it allowed for a flange below the floor surface and allowed for a slight shift according to the instructions. If it was not for the versatility of the rubber I may have had to melt two rubber wax seals together and double stack. Rubber product allows for toilet removal where the wax doesn't give you a second chance. As far as I know, no leaks so far and I would consider using it again. I keep wax rings in the van at all times; I'll stick to wax whenever I can.
Which seal would you recommend if the flange is not level? I’m replacing the seal on one of my toilets and the flange is in pretty good shape, but one side of it is a little bit more than half an inch above the floor while the opposite side is even with the floor. I’m not sure how important it is to be level. I did try to level the flange by removing the screws and putting a couple plastic shims under the lower side before screwing it back down. All this did was raise the whole flange up so that it’s above the floor on all sides, but still not level. Hoping one of these seals will still work without having to cut out the old flange a set a new one.
Hi Roger, the last time I installed a toilet with the rubber ring instead of the wax ring, the rubber, even though it was pliable, it cracked the toilet bowl at the mounting bolts !!, so, I had to buy a new toilet and I wound up using the wax ring instead!
Did you test jig accurately reproduce the way a seal of any type works to seal sewer gasses/ effluent in the toilet situation?
Look farward to seeing the resalts from an acurate test gig.
I have seen through experience that wax rings with horns leaked when the toilet clogged or the branch/main line backed up. This was almost everytime. I would reset the toilet and find this type of seal. I believe its due to not enough wax under the horn.
Can you revisit this and use a regular wax ring without a horn? Im curious to see if it would hold the pressure
NEVER going back to wax. Zero problems with the rubber/foam seals (Fluidmaster Better Than Wax). You never know if the wax set right when you add pressure and you certainly can't lift it to readjust or else you're scraping wax and doing it again.
I use the Fernco FTS-3 3" Wax Free Toilet Seal, best on a new toilet install. They also make a 4", FTS-4 a little over 5.00 at Supply House.
Korky has been my go-to of late, but I'm going to try the Fernco next time. I like the design
@@KreemieNewgatt The adhesive on the Fernco is sticky like a mouse pad. After I put it on a new clean bowl, I put PL adhesive around the flange to bowl for extra grip and let it ry for a few days. Put a little liquid soap on the flange and inside the pipe and it slips right in. If you have one of the bowls that has a slight rocking due to floor problems Fernco will not be a problem because when it moves it does not break the seal because the final seal is IN THE PIPE not at the flange.
I’ve used wax rings, and the blue rubber one you tried in the video. Some of other rubber toilet rings are junk. The wax rings and blue rubber rings both work, except if using a PVC flange and it is too high above the floor and there is not enough room between flange and toilet to compress the rubber. In that case, use a wax ring. If the flange and floor are not parallel, use a wax ring.
Never allow a toilet to rock back and forth even a small amount when using a wax ring. The rubber rings have that advantage over wax rings, when installing a toilet. Supposedly you can reuse the blue rubber rings, but I never do.
Wood floors are never perfectly level, so I shim the toilet so it cannot rock when using a wax ring. The ideal flat floor for a toilet are large format porcelain tiles. I’ve never had to shim a toilet setting on a porcelain tile floor that was laid using a floor leveling system.
There are typically two causes for toilet ring failure. Improper installation or the toilet gets loose and rocks even a slight amount. That’s why I make sure even if the nuts are not really tight, the toilet does not rock. I use the thin flexible cutting board sheets and custom cut shims that are hidden beneath the toilet.
As a remodeler, I liked having a rubber seal one for temporary toilet hookups or on jobs where we have to take it out and hook it up a bunch of times, then we just reused it at different sites instead of having to keep a bunch of wax ones around all the time. We only ever used them as a temporary solution until we got the permanent hookup.
I've also used them as permanent rings a couple of times and have never had any problems with them. It didn't seem like the acrylic in the video was stiff enough- lots of flex.
I put a rubber one on my fiancé's toilet and it was there for 6 years with no problems. She moved to my town and we got married. We used the rubber gasket on the front toilet and we did that in 2019. It is still working correctly. We used the green rubber one.
As I live in "developing country" we skipped many stuff you used at some point or still using, mostly of historical reasons like cheques, pagers, lead pans and many more.
Toilet wax rings were never used in my area, we went straight to the rubber gaskets and to be honest I have never heard somebody had any issues because of those, tho I have also never saw anybody using foam spacers. Also it's worth mentioning that mostly rear outlets are being used all around.
I have removed toilets that have have been installed for many yours and were currently letting sewer gases into the house. When I removed the toilet to my surprise the foam had deteriorated and was leaking. I always use the extra thick wax to give me a good seal. I often find the flange is not level do to a new floor or some other renovation. Wax is the only way to go.
Why is there a danco perfect seal in the thumnail/picture but not the video? Thats the one I use. I like how the danco will move with the toilet a little. I use them for wall mount sits on floor and floor mount where the flange is below the floor. For floating i use wax and I also use wax for applications where the flange sticks out.
As a DIYer and replacing 2 toilets and on both occasions used the wax ring and had leaks because I had no idea what I was doing and messed up the wax ring when setting the toilet, I would prefer the rubber ones. After the second toilet I just decided to call a pro from then on. I do not want toilet leaks. I will be happy to do the piping and other things like replacing my faucets when needed but I am not willing to try another toilet.
Like you said your self there is a flange around the ring on the toilet. Also toilets are heavy and not flexible so even though there is only two fasteners on a toilet, I imaging just the weight of the toilet is going to give you a good gasket crush nice and even all the around the bolts are more to hold it secure than to crush the gasket in my opinion. I would recomend retesting this with something more similar to the bottom of a toilet. And possibly even add some more fasteners so you get a more even gasket squish instead of bending the acrylic. I personally don’t have a position as to which one is better. I do my own plumbing in my house and have used both wax ring and the rubber gasket. As far as I know I have never had any leak, I thought I had a wax ring leak once but it turned out to be the tank to bowl gasket. Got a toilet overhaul kit, and it’s been great ever since.
Both seal adequately but the wax compresses more and more easily. This is a plus when installing on an uneven floor - less chance of cracking toilet by overtightening and less shimming needed.
I had a rubber one. Replaced it after a year. My toilet leaked. Couldn't belive it. Went with a wax ring. I was told rubber is better. I think the rubber misformed or somthing. It was awhile ago. Unless I got a cheap rubber one? Is there a better rubber seal out there?
I found out that the prior owner of my home neglected the other important thing about toilet seals.
Proper height and, with wax, DON'T reuse it.
Never would have known it was leaking if I didn't go into the crawlspace for another issue.
When I pulled the toilet, the wax ring was flat and no wax was adhered to the bottom of the toilet.
Your test is totally bogus. What you are testing is the bending strength is a thin, flimsy piece of plastic (while it is supported in only 2 places). The plastic is bowing & lifting away from the seal. With 4" pipe, the force on that plastic is about 12 times the PSI you are applying. At only 5 PSI, that amounts to 60 pounds. The plastic bends! Pressure is not what makes a toilet seal leak. It is shifting of the toilet, movement of the pipe, or shrinking of the seal with age (causing the seal to lose contact). The wax seal can only deform ONCE to accommodate irregularities in the toilet or pipe. The silicone seal continues to spring upward to accommodate movement.
The maximum pressure toilet can make is 1 or 2 PSI. Seals leak because they separate, not because of pressure.
I have replaced a lot of those rubber rings as a service plumber. I think after a while they dry up and shrink, causing the smell to come out. I had one that failed not even a month after installation. I sold the work, somebody else installed it and I felt like a real jerk having to reset this brand new toilet with wax when it should have been done right the first time.
I've had them dry up when I shut off the water while away on vacation. They leaked when I turned the water back on.
I’d be interested in knowing what the pressure of an average plunge is
Roger , do you always use the thick wax ones regardless? I’m getting ready to put down two new toilets and am flipping a coin on whether to use the Green Seals or Wax rings. 🤷♂️
I’m not a plumber but at my home I use wax seals.
I am a steamfitter/pipefitter and have done thousands of pressure tests at much higher pressures. (Up to 10,000 psi)
I suggest if you ever try to repeat this test put a steel ring (flange?) on top of the clear acrylic. You will keep the acrylic from warping and eliminate the issues you had here.
Noted! Thanks for the tip
I think you're right: I think with a toilet weight on it it would seal up better. I'm guessing there'd be an increase in pressure across the board. Interesting test. Thanks! "Easiest way to set a toilet? Have someone else do it.🤣"
We tried that Korky one and just couldn't get it to work. Now I'm as amateur as they get so maybe I did something wrong, but we put the wax one on and no issues. As much as I didn't want to use wax, it worked over the rubber. We returned that one the next day.
Problem is with the circular flange most of the time wood around the toilet is rotted or does not cover around the pipe, you can not screw it on the toilet floor because there is no wood to screw it to, flanges has to be like square shaped that can be secured to the floor wood with the bolts most of the time the flange screws does not grab the floor.
Can you review the Danco all-in-one? It's a combination of both wax and rubber.
Great concept for testing although I see plenty of opportunity to gather a lot more info by modifying some materials and the smoke test idea is great too. I suggest having a jig for each item tested. I’ll look out for part 2 of this test👍
I've never seen these parts in the Netherlands. We mostly use the sanivesk manchet for example and the eccentric alternative.
I use the rubber one. Had to pull the bowl one day and realized I didn't have a new seal. Took a chance with the rubber and that was 15+ years ago and no problems.
Remodeler here. I do lots of plumbing. I've used only better than wax for 15 yrs no fails ever.
What really is better than wax is to install one of those European style wall hung toilets. The piping is done in the wall. No chance of ring failure. Another option is a back outlet European style such as Sniflo or Caroma, which mounts on the floor and uses a connector pipe in the back, similar to a pvc drain pipe. Neither require a wax ring.
The double stack (the spacer) was "needed" according to the instructions for my toilet (flange even with the floor) but the toilet was WAYYYYYYY to high off the floor. So I didn't use the spacer and just used the blue ring. Did it on Monday - no leaking that I can see. My next toilets I might stack 2 of the blue seals and see how that goes.
I use the danco hydrocap with wax , you get both the wax and the rubber works Great.
I personally like the rubber seals. They won't melt like wax seals will, especially if someone is using a bidet with warm water. I heard of an uncle that piped heat water to his toilet, apparently for a bidet. I would think a rubber ring in this case would be better than a dripping wax seal.
Been plumbing since Jr. High (1973). My (late) dad owned/opened a residential (union) plumbing shop in 1964. Plumbed thousands of houses in southern California. I've seen rubber, foam, neoprene and other similar products rot/swell from air and moisture exposure. It swells up and causes stoppages in drain lines...rots and fall inside the pipe....no-hub bands look like a science project (inside the pipe!) after 20-30 years. The only time wax fails is usually when the person setting the toilet doesn't properly shim the bowl before tightening the bolts, causing the whole toilet to "rock" from side to side or front to back (not good). There's a lot more to consider when setting a toilet (if you want it to last forever) but improper shimming is normally the culprit. In my 40+ years of experience I once seen where ants got under a toilet and carried off all the wax...at least that's what it looked like....weirdest thing....but only once.
We use rubber o-ring or rubber adapter and white cemento to seal in a floor installation
I like the danco version... Wax on the bottom... Rubber on top...
Which means it stays flexible...
I've been in too many houses where the wax rings failed after 10 years, allowing water damage to occur to the subfloor and the ceiling below ....
And a few homes where the wax ring failed after somebody plunged it too hard.
When we built the house I used a rubber seal on one toilet and 35 years and a toilet change later later it is still holding. The other bathroom toilet has a wax ring which has leaked twice and been replaced three times.