How Tight is Too Tight?!
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2024
- How Tight is Too Tight?!
Ever wondered 'How Tight is Too Tight?!' when it comes to plumbing fixtures? I'm taking you on an adventurous journey to find out exactly that. With my trusty torque wrench in hand, I'm determined to discover the critical point at which pressure becomes too much for a porcelain toilet, leading to a crack. This experiment isn't just for the thrill; it's designed to provide valuable insights for fellow plumbers, DIY aficionados, and any homeowner who's ever wielded a wrench. Let's dive in and find out, together, 'How Tight is Too Tight?!'"
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Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, The Expert Plumber, and welcome to my channel. On this channel, it's ALL about plumbing. We play games, we experiment, and we have FUN here, talking and learning about all things plumbing!
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My grandson turned 18 today, confirmed he entering a plumbing apprenticeship. He is also a 4.0 gpa student. Color me proud!
He will live a good honest life and meets lots of people.
Congratulations.. My oldest grandson is only 12 but unfortunately his mom is nauseatingly liberal and doesn't lift a finger to encourage the boy's education. He'll probably come along looking for a better job someday when poor math skills and even worse work ethics find him unemployed...
Waste of a good brain
He has a 4.0 GPA and WANTS to become a PLUMBER?. .. 😅
Controversial take, he wasted a ton of time getting that 4.0 just to go be a plumber. Plumbers a great job but not one you need a 4.0 for. Would’ve been better off spending that time learning plumbing back then
I'm not a licensed plumber but I sure have replaced and reset a lot of toilets, I use a nutdriver only; don't use any type of handle as the lever effect makes it difficult to feel just how tight the nuts are. With a nutdriver, your palm is your torque wrench.
you have a nice perfectly flat surface there i think a lot of people overtighten because their floor is not level and they think they can somehow stop the rocking if they tighten it enough. plus, a high spot puts all the pressure on one point.
Sparky here having removed and set 4 toilets. Technically the 4th one is the same toilet as the 3rd. I don't know if it was over tightening or just the cheap plastic flange but it started getting loose. Tried tightening it more and that didn't do much so I figured the plastic gave way and just to make it a little more secure until I could get time to go to the hardware store I tried tightening the other closet bolt and heard a loud pop. Porcelain thankfully wasn't broke, but the weight of the toilet was the only thing holding that in place for several days until I had time to deal with it over the weekend. Learned that metal repair flange brackets exist. Whose bright idea was it to design plastic to hold a metal bolt I'll never know.
Roger, this is the most butt puckering video yet. I love it!😂
😂😂
1 time is all it takes. Been there, not a fun discussion with your client. I paid for the replacement, and I got a life lesson. Roger keeps it REAL!
Love your videos. They’re full of great information.
Some respectful feedback: you’ll get more accurate torques from the wrench by putting your hand in the dead center of the handle. John Cadogan, an automotive expert and engineer, did a deep dive series of videos on this topic.
I never broke a toilet but let me tell you something.
When i first learned to install toilets i took all day to install a toilet because i was using a ratchet to tighten the bolts. I didnt break the toilet but i kept breaking the bolts and it kept rocking. I was an apprentice but i was non union so i had no one there to ask what i was doing wrong until the journeyman came back from the store and laughed and told me to use a crescent wrench because a ratchet would overtighten the bolts. I had always worked on cars so i was just more familiar with using ratchets. Anyways as i started working on my own i realized the best tool for removing and installing toilet bolts is BY FAR a 7/16 nut driver. My person favorite is klein tools’ 9-in-1 pass through nut driver, its honestly maybe my favorite tool in my whole truck I literally never go into a house without one its so useful.
Nowadays i can replace a toilet in about 20 minutes but every time i install i always remember the time I spent a full day trying to figure out what the hell i did wrong.
Also P.S for the record I actually HAVE broken a toilet before but not by overtightening it, it simply slipped out of my hands onetime and shattered, i ended up paying for it out of pocket so i definitely learned my lesson
hey man good one 8yrs plumbing here i had my share of stories as well 😂, hey what was that tool pass through driver again? i definitely can use one will make my life easier
@@menashelandau4293 klein tools 9-in-1 pass through nut driver its 29.99 at Home Depot id reccomend buying it online
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the video. The only things I would mention about the type of torque wrench you used is that the spring needs to be "worked" before using it. This ensures that the set torque is accurate. This just entails changing the setting the full range multiple times. Also, the spring is recommended to be calibrated every so often.
That's one tough toilet
Our toilet was set with plastic nuts. We had to replace the nuts a couple times but the toilet is still good to go.
As soon as you hear the Crack of the porcelain and the crying of your wallet.
By then you're SOL
Been there before lol ffs
Wouldn’t the pvc flange crack before the porcelain toilet?
@@AzeveidoMateusit takes Alot to break that porcelain doesn't need much just a tap from any tool will shatter it
@@AzeveidoMateusnot likely unless it's old and brittle. The ceramic is more delicate.
I don’t install them very often, but I’ve done it for friends and family enough times that this was a fascinating test to watch; super interesting and exciting at the end! Never considered using a torque wrench, but your test was well thought out and executed. I’m totally sure I’ve never achieved 20 ft-lbs torque in my installs, and was grimacing with every additional increase near the end, perhaps we all were! Never thought it would be THAT much to the fracture point, and that number will probably vary from toilet to toilet, but now we all have a number etched in our brains not to exceed. I’ll definitely bring y torque wrench along for the next one, thanks a ton, for an interesting and applicable video!!
LarryS
I have always been worried about breaking a PVC flange when installing a toilet no so much the actual toilet. I have seen a few broken flanges when I pull toilets. I am a huge fan of 5/16 bolts also!
That was an eye opener for me. I have broken a toilet when installing it. I was young and used to mechanical work so definitely overtightened it. Since then I have always been afraid to tighten them too much. I have thought the wax ring was too high or too large as some of the toilets I installed still rocked a bit. I see now I didn't use the right techniques to secure it.
Just go back and forth with each bolt just like when you are suppose to tighten a wheel on a car. As so it is flush and doesn't rock left/right then it's good.
If you try to screw in one bolt all the way down you risk putting too much stress unevenly.
I sit on it while I tighten the flange bolts. Rock yourself around a little till the toilet stops settling, before tightening.
I'm like you Roger, 1 broken in 50 years plumbing learned my lesson as an apprentice 😢😢
Nice video! I'd be interested in seeing how the washer size affects the torque needed to break the toilet. I've killed a toilet using smaller washers than you used and im almost sure i wasnt applying 19 ft-lb of torque.
Earlier this year I replaced my Peerless 1.6 GPF toilet that clogged every time you used it with a proper vintage full flush toilet which actually works, and although I have installed toilets in the past, tightening the bolts always makes me nervous. Luckily the install went great, and the toilet is working well although I could have probably made them a bit tighter, it doesn't shift.
Awesome choice
@@OCC_Plumbing_and_RestorationsIt is a pretty nice toilet, it is a Celite with a side push button which is supposedly sort of rare. I quite like it, I got it from a house that was being remodled.
havent broke one but i had some issues installing using a foam ring as it was harder to compress and the toilet would wobble, had to sit on the toilet and then tighten the bolts to make it feel like it wasnt going to break on tightening.
But after using bleach cleaner and melting the ring causing a leak i just went for the trusty wax ring, also found the bleach based in tank cleaner also melted the rubber seals between the tank and the bowl, and the washers on the tank bolts
With so many different toilets that have been produced, testing one is better than doing none. Lots of variables to consider making a torque wrench a tool to use for this purpose. If the manufacturer stated what torque to use, that would be ideal in a perfect world. Not all floors are even so if there is a sag where the bolts are being tightened, it may be possible that it would crack even with a manufacturers recommendation. Tightening a base has always made me a little nervous even though I have never broken a toilet. Maybe an insert that would take al the torque could be cast into the base such as a tube of steel anchored in the porcelain, then maybe a torque wrench value would become a standard. Great idea for an invention. Thanks for doing this.
What about the tightness on the tank bolts? how much pressure to make the tank or bowl crack?
Then there's how tight to tighten the bolts that hold the tank to the bowl. Had a friend who had to replace the entire toilet after overtightening the tank to the bowl. Always makes me more nervous to tighten the tank to the bowl than the closet bolts that hold down the toilet.
Yeah I agree I had to cut old bolts and replace them once super scary porcelain on porcelain I got lucky and nothing broke but I thought it was gonna happen for sure😂
This is why i use nylon toilet bokts because if somebody falls into it, it will break the bolt and not the toilet. And if you tighten them to much the bolt breaks and thats it...
Im looking to move to the dallas area. I have 1 year plumbing experience and 3 years as a construction laborer. How hard will be to find a plumbing apprenticeship when i move?
I broke my first one in a factory, placing toilets on flat floors. I learned to sit on the toilet first to help seat the wax ring, wiggle my butt a bit, get up and tighten the bolts until I get nervous. Worked 99% of the time. Occasionally had to tighten a few a little more, but my technique worked out well.
For the record I’m not a plumber, but an HVAC service tech. During the slow season the residential company I used to work for would have me go out and replace toilets at various places (I’ve done 14 total). I’ve always just slowly tighten those nuts down in slow increments, one after the other, until the toilet didn’t feel wobbly anymore. It was always a nerve wracking experience. One time while tightening one of the nuts down, the end of my ratchet made contact with the toilet making a loud clanking sound, made me jump a mile as I thought I broke it. 🤣
That is hilarious. I busted out when you said you broke a toilet . I broke the first one
That's a good demonstration. But the older china is a lot more sturdy than the newer china. Also gotta take into effect that every casting is going to be different, having different empurities and voids.
Very true...this china is something else...the bolts kept breaking before the toilet did! It deserves a gold star for strength
Newer china is made in china
Yes😫 I have. I just had to turn it a little more 😭
I have only broken a couple of bowls. Usually, I will tighten it up until I think it is too loose and flush it; if it leaks, I will tighten it up again. I am retired now but I have had more trouble with the tanks. I have broken more than a few of them, installing floats and flush valves, and nowadays, if you break a tank, you almost have to buy a whole new toilet because it is hard to find a tank to fit. I worked in apartment maintenance, so I have replaced a lot of toilets. It is sooo easy to get them too tight.
Interesting !! Thanks Roger. I use a gear wrench and grip it very lightly about 3" from the nut to gently tighten. That's my torque wrench.
Looking cold in your shop man! I also warm the wax ring in cold conditions to get a good squish.
You're a smart man! It was a bit chilly when we filmed this...ready for the heat to be back!
@@RogerWakefield get you a heater in there man.
Choke up on a ratchet, basically holding it next to the nut/bolt, to avoid over torqueing.
Not a professional plumber but put in a few toilets in my time and I like using German torque, guten-tight.
This was putting the toilet on a nice clean flat floor. Put it on a not so flat cement or tile floor, something hard and may have little bumps or any debris under the toilet it might snap a lot sooner.
The base of the toilet is square, which likely increases structural integrity. It also looks like it's thick as hell compared to a more modern toilet. The area with the bolthole on my toilet is only like 1/2 inch thick.
I don’t put the bolts too tight at all, but I do use plaster of Paris to make sure it’s secure
I learned the hard way- 😞 Now i use the wing nuts and hand tighten.
Flange goes crazy 😂
I was told by pros to use a small wrench (like 6 inch) and use your finger. Once
It gets
Hard with just ur finger ur good.
I kept tightening until the toilet stopped wobbling. Then I probably turned the nuts a few more times and called it a day.
So far so good.
It probably broke earlier in that cold shop than it would in a warm home
I’ve broken several toilets, buts its always been the one I’m already replacing if the bolts aren’t cooperating when pulling
Yeah that's one thing we thought about while testing, the temp was around 35-40° when we filmed this.
The only time I've ever broken a toilet at the base is on the old one when the bolts would not come off and it was just too hard to cut them off, so out came the ball peen hammer and with a few taps it was up
I am looking at replacing my toilet, can I instead use a 1/2" impact wrench to tighten it down? It seems this method would be much quicker
Funny!!! Good luck,hope the toilet store is nearby!
Yup, waaay quicker ... lol😂
Do it with the tank full I was done about to walk out and had mine crack on me
All it takes is one to learn
Like you said, once you break one, you know what it feels like and you never go that far again.
Oh I agree
DO THIS ON TANK BOLTS! Please 🙏
That was nerve racking lol
Very true 😂
I snug it up till and it feels tight and it dont move. If it does move and i feel its tight enough id rther shim it then keep tightening. Ill tell you one thing if you ever set a toilet in a cold house dont tighten all the way. Leave room for expansion when it warms back up.
That table is sooooo flat I bet would bust way less without a perfect surface
I've never broken a toilet but I have pulled the bolts through the pot flange more than once
Man the first crapper I put in I cracked it ugggg, I've done it a few other times since and even put a porcelain toilet in a bus and haven't cracked on since, once you do it you just kinda how how much is enough lol.
I'll bet you couldn't get half that on one of the $100 glacier bay specials
All fun and games until the flings comes off and you gotta figure out how to put it back on
I have an old school toilet that has four bolts.
The shape of that base definitely seems stronger than the plain flat ones.
Don't be fooled, it's all hollow in there
I broke a PVC flange by overtightening once when I first started, but never a toilet. As long as the toilet is sitting flat and not rocking, all you need to do is snug the bolt. To rock the toilet at that point, you would have to stretch the bolt or bend or break the flange. Physics says that ain't happening under normal circumstances. If the floor is not flat, install shims to keep it from rocking and add grout to create a flat base for the toilet to sit on.
As with tightening anything down, just tighten down until it starts making bad noises. Then go back half a turn.
Considering a 1/4” bolt would never be torqued past 30ft lbs in metal applications bolts held in plastic flanges would obviously indicate very low torque.
It depends on if the flange is solid or not lol
Fun fact! That toilet is an eljer hygeian, they’re pretty rare
Really?! Couldn’t find a name on it anywhere
@@RogerWakefield yep! The label probably got worn off, its an old toilet
I hand tightened the mounting nut for a toilet handle/tank lever
That's normal
That water closet flange was beefy AF... Try a Pro-Flo toilet.. bet it breaks at 100 in lbs
I haven't broken a toilet yet, but I've broken a water heater gas control valve.
Did you just do one side of the toilet? That absolutely matters when doing this, the porcelain fights being yanked down on both sides and causes it to split. I'm guessing that's why it took you so long to break it. I've broken a toilet with 2 fingers and a small adjustable and it definitely isnt almost 20ft lbs lol.
I tightened down both sides, one side just cracked before the other
I think he did both sides with different wrenches and the side that he did broke
@@RogerWakefieldyou beat me to it 😅
I have removed and replaced hundreds of toilets and never broke one tighten it down but one made a horrible sound and oh sh@@ but it never broke, but I have destroyed two bowls with a toilet ager. Blew right out the side.
I think you could have gotten a few more foot pounds out of it if you used a rubber washer underneath the metal one.
Finger tight and one half turn more. Rock toilet to see if it’s secure.
I'm more worried about breaking the plastic Oatey flange before breaking the toilet.
If you did that test on an uneven typical floor surface it would fail way sooner. Also, not all toilets are created equal.
Toilet shouldn't be so tight that it can hold up a house it just needs to be tight enough to keep you from falling over.
I think a new toilet would have broken a lot earlier. Just the quality of the porcelain.
Worse, you may break the flange! I use German torque "Gutten' snug".
I don’t use bolts. I just use painters caulk to seal the toilet to the floor. That usually keeps it in place.
Many do. Do you leave a little opening towards the back in case there's a leak that needs to be known?
I bump the toilet bowl with the hard part of my palm. you can hear a solid toilet.
This is y i hate plumbing one time i over tighted a shower head it cracked and started leaking
These days the flange would break before the toilet
Surprised to see it fail at "only" 19 ft. pounds!
Seems to me even 10 is pushing it, a large person kind of misses when sitting down what happens? (besides sh!t hits the floor - that works too! SHTF!) Never broke one and have set quite a few down. But if the floor is janky and it's wobbly even snug then the average Joe may be enticed to start cranking it down and then that's never good! I've seen all sorts of stuff from wooden shims to gobs of silicone...
Floor needs to be fixed and the toilet will be happy.
Or you could resort to a prison toilet! ;-)
Tighten till ya here a crunch then keep going till it cracks, even worse on a PVC flange 😂😂 my coworker knows
Try that on a toilet manufactured today and not 40 years ago. Bet you it cracks twice as fast
if the torque wrench makes a click, it;s tight enough. if the toilet makes a click, it's too tight.
Great rule of thumb
Goodentight - or German tight.
That's where I get it.
Danger Zone!!!
Lol, use a nut runner.. what in the hell would have that much space for that big ass wrench
Small tool that won’t allow enough torque to over tighten . Those plastic nut drivers are almost idiot proof
Tighten till it doesn't wobble
Tight is tight. Too tight is broke.
Very true words
I put in a toilet today 😊
awesome job!
Try that with a new toilet like a glacier bay or Gerber and watch it shatter
You're right, the newer china would not have help up as long. Have you ever broken one?
Delta especially
@@RogerWakefield yes
No Eljer Emblems were harmed in the making of this video
Are you Sure about that
@erickmorton8085 Yes, quite sure. I'm installing a Hygeian with the same base so now I know how much is too much to tighten it.
So you really have to caveman it to break it.
What is the point of including the wax in the fail test??
Break it so I don't have to thank you
Pro tip: tighten til you here a crack, back off a quarter turn and caulk it down. Lol
Hear*
the cameraman needs to be fired asap
why?