Yeah, I look at that line completely different now. As if Dooku felt he would have never be in this position, if Qui Gon was still around to keep him honest.
@@82saw3 not entirely true. In tales Dooku was still assisting Palpatine while Qui Gon was still alive. The movies quote is pretty much ruined if you treat tales as cannon.
Grey Jedi doesn't mean Dark Jedi. Grey Jedi disregard the code's dogma and follow the will of the force even if it takes them somewhere a bit dark. Grey Jedi don't shy away from lying, cheating or romantic relationships. Grey Jedi see the code as a suggestion.
@@georgehouliaras7239 No, they are Good Jedi that are tired of following the strict dogma of Jedi Council. Anger can be a positive thing and Compassion can be a negative thing. Grey Jedi find nuance.
@@jiffypoo5029 So they want to believe in a religion without following any rules of said religion? Ridiculous. It's like believe in God but you break the 10th commandments when you want to. The Force has rules. Negative emotions corrupt your mind and flesh. Wielding the Force is a great responsibility that requires discipline. The Light Side is that discipline. Sure the Jedi are not perfect but perfection itself does not exists and if I lived in the Star Wars universe, I would only worship the Light Side which heals and protects and not the Dark Side which corrupts and destroys.
@@georgehouliaras7239 You don't need strict dogma to be a good person or follow the will of the force. Strict Jedi Dogma led to the Fall of the Republic. Saturday morning Jedi Code door knockers are super annoying too.
I think Qui-Gon would've wanted to help Dooku out of loyalty and respect. In "Master & Apprentice," he tries to contact Dooku on Serenno and never gets a response. I think that if he did try to help Dooku, he would be shocked when he found out the things Dooku has done, like killing Yaddle. Qui-Gon would never turn to the dark side, so I think he ultimately would've had to oppose Dooku in the end, even if he tried to help him at first.
Agreed. Heck, we might have even gotten a bit of a Vader-and-Luke situation, with Dooku reaching a point where he chooses Qui-Gon (and the light) over Palpatine, or tried actively to protect his former padawan.
Agreed. Plus, I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi. He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
Sidious said, "For you." I think that means he knew Dooku would have stayed on the Light side if Qui-Gon had lived. More than that, I think between Dooku and Qui-Gon being vocal and taking action, the Jedi Order would have turned away from all the politicking.
For real, I think of dooku and qui gon really hammerd at them , and especially with possibly obi wan and Anakin backing them up, they could have possibly taken the order in a different direction
I feel like he would have had an effect, but they would both have probably left the order, maybe taking others with them, because the sentiment that the Jedi had lost there way wasn't theirs alone.They wouldnt have left to join the Dark side but continued to act under the guidance of the force the way Qui-gon did, naturally.
I agree. While I do think staying up to date on politics was one way of being connected to the people that need them, they were too passive, not using that knowledge to have positive influence. In my opinion, Qui Gon stayed with the Order He must've had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order. Even when he disagreed with them, he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi. And it isn't just the Star Wars universe that needs more men like him, but also our world.
I personally feel Qui gon is in between Dooku and Obi wan. He has some doubts like Dooku did and was an independent thinker. However he was like Obi wan in the sense that he was always in the light and wouldn't actively try to betray the Jedi Order.
Qui-Gon was the greatest and purest example of a Jedi imo. Even Yoda realized how wise Qui-Gon was, and somewhat became his student when Qui-Gon was teaching him how to become a Force Ghost. Losing Qui-Gon destroyed Dooku and Anakin, and brought chaos to the Universe. Qui-Gon is by far my favorite Jedi and one of my top 3 favorite characters in Star Wars.
Yeah, he was the jedi that people like the sisters (who Ahsoka befriended in s7) wanted them to be. He was what the Jedi were supposed to be: To the people, not to Politics.
Agreed. I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi. He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
I could not imagine Qui Gon ever joining Dooku. If anything he would’ve convinced him to stay in the light. After all his death was what drove him over the edge, but if Dooku were to turn for some reason while Qui Gon was alive, it wouldn’t be for very long or it wouldn’t happen at all.
In my opinion, I feel like since Qui-Gonn was never political, and only followed the force, he wouldn’t join Dooku as a Separatist. I feel like Qui-Gonn would consider joining Dooku as a force user trying to find balance and trying to bring about peace throughout the galaxy, but the second he finds out about Dooku being a Sith he would realize that Dooku’s ideologies and original good intentions are being clouded/corrupted by the dark side. This would most likely shift their relationship because Qui-Gonn can’t believe his master would fall to the dark side. Sidious would likely see Dooku being distracted from this and he’d probably find out from Dooku why happened. Then, Sidious would most likely order Dooku to kill Qui-Gonn as to not ruin any of his plans, thus leading to more of an internal struggle within Dooku. Ofc anything else could’ve happened, but that’s what I think. :)
@@NickyHelp I agree somewhat, however, I'd say his allegiance is to all innocent people as he would serve only the force. In the clone wars show we see that not all Separatists have evil/bad intentions when Padme and Ahsoka go to visit one of Padme's old colleagues who joined the separatist movement. Instead of Qui-Gonn's allegiance being with the republic, imo I think he doesn't serve any political party, only the people who would need his help.
@@snipadk4146 I do know that not all the separatists are bad. Lux and his mother were living proof of that, before Lux's mother was murdered by Dooku and other separatists lie about it when he's telling the truth. And you wonder why Lux joined the republic as senator of Onderon. And about Qui-Gon, that's exactly what I meant by being a Jedi that they were suppose to be and meant to be (which many Jedi had forgotten, which led many to their deaths and where they regretted it); A Jedi to the people, when they are in need, and one that serves to the force, not to politics or evil.
Honestly, I think Qui-Gon was the only one that could have brought Dooku back the light side, as Luke was the only one who could redeem Anakin. Thus adding more tragedy to Qui-Gon's death, not only could Anakin's darth path been prevented, but Dooku may have been saved as well.
Depends on what you consider "light". Dooku would neither stay in the ways of the senate nor would he have become a full blow sith. And the same would be for Qui-gon. I think they both would have helped each other become what Jedi were truly meant to be, which in the eyes of the senate wouldn't be the light side.
@@jokinglemon007 yeah I agree with that that’s basically how I see it. Qui-gon would’ve swayed him back to the light I believe before he’d join the darkside. The light is love and that is what’s truly good
In the old canon, one big reason why Dooku left the order was because of qui-gon's death and " the lost 20 Jedi" that left as proof that the Jedi Council was out of touch with the happenings and larger shifts of the Force. It was not till later that Dooku joined Sidious to become more powerful.
We really need more Qui-Gon and Dooku content. They have such a great bond, and their distrust and disdain for the corrupt Jedi Council/Order makes me respect them so much more.
I kinda see what you mean. I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi. He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
This video also reminds me that you owe us a Part 3 to your What If video series on Qui-Gon surviving the duel of the fates on Naboo, leaving the Order, and training Anakin as a balanced Force adept rather than a Jedi.
Well im not sure but probably not if Qui Gon found out about his master joining the sith he'd be shocked and confused, but might be convinced cause of dooku and qui gon's connection as a son and father during their young years as Jedi. But idk how Anakin and Obi Wan would react to qui gon joining dooku.
I am disappointed that Disney didn't show Qui-Gon's lightsaber buried with obiwan's and Anakin's lightsaber in the Kenobi series. It was one of the little bits that I was hoping for but never got
Great breakdown of what could’ve been had Qui-gon survived the duel against Maul. I’ve enjoyed your videos since I was still in high school back in 2016, and you never disappoint with your breakdowns, they are concise and well thought out. I would love to discuss Star Wars and share our thoughts someday.
So many of us prequel kids loved Qui Gon-Jinn. I am so glad we have gotten more material as time has passed on, and most of the material being very good! I really enjoyed the Jedi Apprentics youth novels growing up! Thanks for the video!
Awesome work including the master & apprentice book. Thought it really deepened his character even more. Him and Obi WAN’s relationship was a stand out. Would really love to see something with qui gon with padawan obi wan. Perhaps future Tales of the Jedi episodes
Qui gon would've never joined Dooku. Jinn was what jedi we're supposed to be. He was a true one and that's why he'll always be my favorite. We definitely need a Qui Gon tales of the jedi episodes.
Perhaps parts of Ahsoka's story is that of what Qui-Gon would have become had he lived. Qui-Gon would have become so disillusioned with the Jedi, he would have ended up leaving. And yes he would have sought counsel in his old master. I think Qui-Gon would have gone back to warn the Jedi Council, however, in their blindness and at the same time arrogance, they would have again discounted the warnings. Qui-Gon would have eventually set out on his own path, perhaps trying to bring along Obi-Wan and Anakin in an effort to keep them from falling to the trap being set by the Poppa Palpatine.
It reminds me of what Prosset Dibs said to Windu , that the Jedi are no longer fighting for what they used to , that they are corrupted and stuff and he became the 10th brother after he was released by palpatine to destroy what he thinks the jedi have become , just like Dooku in a way , even though he wasn’t a sith lord .. But I think Qui-Gon would have stormed out from the jedi order as he would have seen the bigger picture of how the jedi became pawns ,if he’d stayed I think it would have destroyed him in degrees
Both Jinn and Dooku knew the senate was corrupt and that the Jedi Order were far from perfect. But Jinn is the one who wouldn't take things too far. Oddly his older more experienced master is the one that was being unwise by falling to the dark side. Jinn knew things had to be changed, but he knew Dooku's way would not be the best way to do it.
That is my favorite quote from Master and Apprentice and Qui-Gon. And it really struck Rael too, because Rael quoted him when Dooku tried to get him to leave the order as well. Also with Rael, and him not being the best at following Jedi rules, he was also one of the oldest children trained to be a Jedi until Anakin. Rael was 6 years old when he was taken from his family.
Honestly I really find Qui-Gon Jinn and Ahsoka Tano to have very similar views of the force just like Qui-Gon Jinn after Ahsoka was falsely accused and almost arrested and the Jedi Council tried to play it off as if it was some sort of training exercise she can sense that they were lying to her and at point I think Ahsoka got a glimpse of the bigger picture so as far as being a quote unquote gray Jedi and also seeing how ashoka's Master Anakin fell to the dark side and Qui-Gon jinn's master Count Dooku fell to the dark side I see a lot of similarities between those two characters and I kind of get the feeling that the character of Ahsoka Tano was created to try and continue Qui-gons story as if he had never died and found out and discovered everything that was going on and happening within the Senate and the Jedi Council. Now I don't think Qui-Gon would have fallen to the dark side but have walked away from the Jedi Order becoming a what you would call a Gray Jedi I don't know that's all I feel that's my opinion.
I feel like Qui Gon would have done what Ashoka did in Clone Wars; he would have grown frustrated with the Jedi council and walked out but stayed on the Light side as a sort of "lone ranger," or maybe even tried to start a separate Jedi school somewhere in the Outer Rim where he could teach and train young Force sensitives and other disillusioned Jedi (Anakin included) in his views of The Force, far away from the politics of the Core worlds.
I think he wouldve believed Dooku but his compassion and genuine concern would've persuaded Dooku back to the light side saying the dark side would not be the way. Dooku would not have joined the Jedi but the grey side of the force.
You should do a video about what factions you would join, Jedi/Sith, Republic/Separatists, Empire/Rebellion, etc, and why. I'd love to see where you'd fall!!!
I feel like Palpatine must have known how Qui-Gon refused to blindly follow politics/the council and that's (one of the reasons) why he didn't spare him for Dooku's sake.
I think under the right circumstances he would've joined the Separatist movement, but not the Sith. Dooku's Sith alignment would've been the deal breaker. Also, you're so right. That always bothered me in AOTC. The Jedi confirm that the clone army was created after being commissioned by a Jedi without the approval of the Council, but when fear took over the senate and people started preaching, "We need that clone army" the Jedi just rolled with it. *facepalm -- Nice video, man!
Obi Wan : Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him. Luke: You mean it controls your actions? Obi Wan: Partially, but it also obeys your commands. A New Hope Is definitely canon.
I'm also seriously hoping Luke's Kyler crystal is Qui-Gon's, that representation where his teachings or his wisdom lives on passed to Luke in a way. That would just nail it in so Epic!
Yeah that is a much better touch than Yoda having Qui Gon's cloak which, from a narratives perspective, is totally inconsequential. As you say, there is a lot of symbolism to Luke having QuI Gon's crystal because Luke was essentially the complete jedi.
Qui-gon always struck me as the ideal jedi, and what a jedi should be. So while I believe he would have left the order with his master I don’t think he would have gone along with Sidious and Dooku’s plans. I would actually argue he would try to keep Dooku from joining Sidious or at the least during the clone war would try to turn him back to the light much like Luke did with Vader. Unfortunately due to having to get Anakin to being Vader he had to die.
Dude it would be such a cool thing to know that Luke’s crystal is literally from qui gons lightsaber. A cool thing with the flow of masters, something being passed down.
I think it's more likely Qui-Gon would have prevented Dooku from turning to the dark side. He probably would have talked with Dooku and together they would agree they needed to leave the order with Anakin and go do their own thing, starting a secret order of force wielders somewhere else. There is zero chance of Qui-Gon turning from the light side. Like he said, he chooses the light because it is the light. That is a mindset of a man who has forsaken all else in service of the ultimate good in the universe. He aligns himself to that and that alone. Once someone reaches that level of wisdom, it is damn near impossible to ever have them fall. Also I think the reason Qui-Gon couldn't reach out to Anakin to stop him from becoming Vader is the same reason Anakin couldn't reach out to Ben Solo to stop him from becoming Kylo Ren. I have a theory that because Force Ghosts are the end result of following the light side to the fullest, they can't reach out to those in darkness. It's like the dark side blinds them to the voice of Force Ghosts. What I would have loved to have seen is instead of Ben having a memory of Han show up after he turns back to the light, have Anakin appear and finally reconcile this obsession Ben had with Vader. Have Ben ask, "Why did you never reach out to me before?" And Anakin would explain, "I tried to Ben...I tried to so many times. But you were so steeped in the dark side that it deafened your ears, blinded your eyes, and closed off your heart to me. Only now that you have taken your first step back into the light have I been able to speak to you as you are now."
Had quigon survived, I think he would've left the order and maybe even have joined with dooku for awhile but would be left when he found out about all the deaths he and palpatine had caused. Imagine if that were the case and then obiwan had sent ahsoka to meet him after she left the order. That would have been a powerhouse duo.
I would’ve loved to seen qui gon in Star Wars more I think he would’ve joined dooku but wouldn’t have turned to the dark side but I think he might’ve helped dooku not turn to a Sith too
This video is yet another testament that GL made a mistake in killing QGJ in TPM. I think Anakin's and Obi-wans story arc would have been much better enriched if they QGJ survived through the PT. Where in AotC he is infirmed from his injuries from the DM fight and cannot directly instruct Anakin, but is instead a youngling instructor with Yoda. QGJ also serves as a counter mentor to Palpatines relationship, an "uncle iroh" if you will. It is QGJ Anakin visits instead of Yoda when he has disturbing dreams, but it's clear QGJ and Palpatine are conducting an emotional duel with Anakin in the middle, Palpatine slowly plants seeds of distrust in Anakin. In AotC I think it would have been interesting to have Dooku attempt to recruit QGJ. I think this could have easily led to a story where QGJ is instrumental in discovering Palpatine's true identity. And it is QGJ that brings the contingent of Jedi to confront Palpatine this time including Anakin. Since he is compromised as a fighter, he is not able to engage Palpatine directly with the rest of the Jedi, but instead only uses Force powers against him. As Anakin enters the fight, he originally is against Palpatine. With 6 jedi (the original 4 + anakin + QGJ) against Sidious, no jedi die immediately (and stupidly imo), as powerful as DS is, he simply cannot counter their numbers especially as QGJ is able to influence the fight from afar with the force, intervening when each jedi is vulnerable to a Sidious attack. Throughout the fight Sidious is trying to influence Anakin, feeding small half-truths/lies in the dialog, and then Sidious tells the great lie to Anakin, that QGJ stole him from his mother, that QGJ knew all along he was on Tatooine suffering as a slave and only liberated him at the right moment for the Jedi's machinations. Now, Anakin conflicted and confused as a memory of his mother and a vision of the death of Padme overwhelms him; he snaps and unexpectedly turns on the jedi. The sudden switch in balance in the fight, Anakin surprises Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar and kills them both, and Palpatine electrocutes QGJ. The fight is now Mace & Kit Fisto vs Palpatine & Anakin as we hear echoes of Duel of the Fates, with QGJ disabled he is unable to help the combatants. Eventually Anakin is able to kill Kit Fisto, and save Palpatine from a killing blow from Mace Windu. As masterful as Mace Windu is, he cannot take both Anakin and Palpatine together, eventually they overpower him. Now only QGJ is left, injured from Palaptine's attack, but not dead. Anakin still grappling the consequences of his actions, QGJ makes a final plea to Anakin. And just like Dooku before, as a final test for Anakin, Palpatine orders Anakin to kill QGJ (a "stand in" for the killing the younglings directly and perhaps a threat to find and kill all his young students). In a similar way Dooku struggles emotionally with dispatching Yaddle, so does Anakin struggle, but eventually strikes down QGJ, BUT.... as a shock and surprise to both Anakin and Palpatine, he disappears. The first Jedi to find the pathway to the living force. And it is here, Yoda first hears QGJ's voice. I'm sure there is a ton of consistencies (and contradiction to official canon) in this rendition, but it's my head canon. :)
I really wish we had more canon content about Qui-Gon. I don't think he would have ever joined the Dark Side. As you said, I see him as a Jedi in the term's truest form. And I completely agree that he probably would have left the Jedi Order and gone a more "Ahsoka route" as I call it. Though, I do have to say, even though it's not "canon" anymore (boo!!!), my first introduction to Star Wars was with my obsession with the 'Jedi Apprentice' EU/Legends books as a kid, and Qui-Gon did sway towards the darkness for a very brief period of time from what I remember because of events I will not spoil in case anyone ever does wanna read the series (seriously, the books were so good!). Considering how much Star Wars knowledge you have, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. So we know that everyone has a breaking point. Simply just being disillusioned from the Jedi Order, though? No way. That wouldn't have turned him to the Dark Side. Also, I just wanna say that I never read the 'Master & Apprentice' book, mainly because of my attachment to the 'Jedi Apprentice' series, but I am glad to hear they kept that Qui-Gon thought Obi-Wan was such a loser at first! I remember how none of the other Jedi Masters wanted to train Obi-Wan in the EU series 😂 I really need to go back and read those books, 'cause I don't remember everything or how exactly Obi-Wan ended up being taken on by Qui-Gon despite being seen as no-good. They're so hard to find nowadays, but I got lucky because the visually impaired digital library I use just so happens to have most of the series. The only benefit I've ever found to being visually impaired: being able to find those old books. Lol
it all started in banes day when a Valoram wanted the jedi to answer to the senate, and while they were good intentions that led the edi down the path to ruin, while bane and his succsessors slowly corrupted the galaxay like a poison
Good video. I believe Qui Gon would have left the Jedi Order, but not turn to the dark side. He probably would be like Ahsoka and just keep a low-profile living a simple life, but helping people from time to time.
Up to Lucas... I don't he'd speculate. He's rather final when it comes to his decisions. I've seen him shut down "what if" questions before. His answer would probably be "He was always going to die" or something.
According to Shadows of the Empire, Luke synthetically created his lightsaber crystal. He did use Kenobi's plans though and built it in his house on Tatooine
Why does Qui Gon appear older than Dooku? It was a thing that in Ep1, Qui Gon's age is why he wasn't able to beat Maul, he lacked stamina as a result, yet Dooku had zero issues being one of the best duelists in Star Wars canon.
"He could have been a great ally." Palpatine replies, "For you... perhaps." It makes me think Palpatine feels Qui-Gon could have turned Dooku away from the darkside the way Yaddle tried unsuccessfully to do. I'm starting to think Ahsoka continued the path Qui-Gon would have taken. From outside the Jedi order he might have been able to convince Dooku to change his plan and together fight Palpatine, but it's also possible Qui-Gon couldn't have stopped Dooku. Dooku might have even ended up killing Qui-Gon, but it would have had an effect on his actions.
I like to think that QuiGon's help wouldn;t be him turning to the sith, but rather Helping Dooku find other means to reform the Jedi and beat the Sith.
I like that idea. I think yaddle would have joined them too. She saw what they saw and stepped down from the council. Had things gone differently, she would have helped reformed the jedi
Had Dooku asked Qui-Gon to join him on Coruscant It would've gone down like Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader. But with help by the entire Jedi Council. Possibly Dooku would been beaten and detained. Maybe, just maybe Dooku could've been reformed and saw the error of his way. Then again, maybe not. ...but then I think of how Palpatine had no further use of him once Anakin had him disarmed (literally) and on his knees. I think he saw working with Palpatine as a means to an end, to teach the Jedi a lesson to not interfere in the politics of the Galactic Republic, and go back to being peace-keepers. Qui-Gon's death further deepened his disgust and set him on a warpath with the Jedi. Too bad he realized too late right when Palpatine said "Do it." That he was just a Pawn, in Palpatine's game.
Qui Gon Jinn Should've Saved Dooku From Turning to The Dark Side!!! Love this Video @Star Wars Theory You Should Do one of your What Ifs on What If Kanan Jarrus Learned Vi' Paad from His Master Depa Billaba? If Mace Windu Would've Allowed For that to Happen
This was such an interesting video and the topic i've given much thought to. First off, Qui Gon would NEVER join the dark side. I also don't believe , had he lived, that he'd have become a General and led troops. He was a servant of the Force, not the Council and he clearly had a mind of his own and lived by his moral code and basic principles. Secondly, i believe he'd have left the Jedi Order once the war broke out and he was told to lead troops. He'd have seen they had truly lost their way and lost their principles and become tools of the Senate. I don't believe he'd haVE joined Dooku at all. Remember, he'd seen his old Master use the dark side as a padawan and because of their bond, he'd have sensed the increasing darkness in him. While they might agree on many things, Qui Gon would never join him and participate in mass slaughter, mass Jedi excecutions or creating a galactic war. Such a deep, thought-provoking topic!
I think we all know the Qui Gon would never have joined the Separatists and definitely not have become a war general. But the question we all want answered is: Could Qui Gon have potentially stopped Dooku from going forward with his plans and come back to the light?
for me I see Qui-Gon sensing that something was slightly off about his former master words, he would probably keep Dooku at arm's length til he finally learned the truth of Dooku being a sith lord, afterwards he might start planning to hide from Palpatine's gaze via slowly reducing his force signature and then when the time was right tell Obi-wan of his plan preserve the Jedi teachings by escaping to a secluded part of the galaxy to prepare for a coming darkness that he perceived though the Force. P.S. but this is only speculation on my part if I were in his position.
I think Qui-Gon would definitely leave The Jedi Order at some point but not to join The Dark Side. He is are Grey Jedi character of the franchise so he'll remain there. One thing you didn't touch is if Qui-Gon survives the duel with Darth Maul then Obi-Wan probably doesn't become so dogmatic and like Qui-Gon with Dooku, Obi-Wan would slowly adopt Qui-Gon's perspective on some things which would make him question the Order more. He wouldn't be training Anakin so that pressure is gone. Maybe he'd have a different apprentice a lot later in life though.
I think if Qui-Gon had survived he would have joined Dooku for a little bit, but after finding out his true plans he would return to the Jedi and tell them what Dooku is doing and what he is planning to do
Master and apprentice novel shows why he didn’t accept the council seat. I feel like if he was still alive when Anakin was going through it he would’ve got through anakins thick skull and told him the master title means nothing and that he would’ve helped Anakin behind closed doors
I kind of see this debate in a different matter; what if qui-gon never joined anyone or stayed anywhere? Not with the Jedi, not with Dooku at his fall, what if, after training Obi Wan, he wanted out? I feel thats a very real possibility and very real thought of a lot of Jedi who go through their training, become a Jedi Knight, and witness the broader picture of what the Jedi were at that time.
"I could use his help right now" Perhaps that means something else, perhaps he wanted his help to avoid turning to the dark side. OR to look for alternate soutions,.
I think he would have left the order and joined Dooku, discovered Tyranus' plans and his manipulation of Dooku, left them and warned the Jedi but would not have gone back to the order. He would become a traveler roaming the universe, training and living within the will of the force, which sometimes lead him to do great things for "good". But sometimes took him down a path that he thought to be "wrong" but did not fully understand the will of the force at the time.
Probably Qui Gon wouldn't join Dooku to become a Sith, but I really see him leaving the Jedi order along with Dooku to do their own thing and become something like a grey Jedi.
Dooku & Qui-Gon, a Dark side user & a Light side user, together to create a new order with their first apprentice, the Choosen One, Anakin who will bring balance to the Force
What I always assumed if Qui gon didn’t die is he would’ve believed Dooku but left the order as the Jedi have lost their way becoming political and following just the senate instead of those in true need. If a war was gonna happen that was a huge no for him as he likely would’ve left the order refusing to be part in the conflict and likely would try to bring Jedi like Yoda and so on to follow him and just follow the force rather than their codes
I think Qui-Gon didn't reach out to Anakin as a ghost because he didn't want to mess with whatever Anakin's destiny was. He wanted to let the force do its thing.
Imo there is a great what if story that's basically a what if Anakin started a Jedi Civil War. I think if Qui-Gon joined Dooku, they would of started a Jedi Rebellion, a civil war.
Grey Jedi aren't Dark Jedi they are Jedi that see the code as a suggestion; Dooku created a line of Grey Jedi who disregard the council and follow the will of the force even if it takes them to a dark place. There is a direct line from Dooku's training to Ahsoka and Luke. Even Obi-Wan despite being on the council was constantly lying, stealing, having a secret girlfriend, hiding things from the council and even a few assassinations. Grey Jedi doesn't mean Dark Jedi.
I don’t think Qui Gon would ever turn to the dark side. However, I do think he would’ve eventually left the Jedi order. After he left the Jedi order Dooku would approach him to sway him to the dark side, but would instead be convinced by Qui Gon to leave Palpatine. Both Dooku and Qui Gon would become grey jedi and train Anakin. Their combined teachings would develop Anakin’s potential to a much a higher level than Obi Wan’s ever could.
Would Qui-Gon have gone to the Dark Side? No. Would he have helped Dooku, say with the Clones or other things that weren't overtly Dark Side related? Sure, I think that he would. I think that in that scene with Dooku and Sidious Yaddle was, in a way, a stand-in for Qui-Gon; that once Qui-Gon knew about Sidious the same scenario would have played out. Sidious would have invoked The Rule of Two, manipulated Dooku into fighting his former Padawan, and even if they joined forces against him Sidious would have killed them both.
Duel of the Fates not only reflects the fate of Anakin but also the fate of Dooku. Qui-Gon's death was the last straw for Dooku. I think Qui-Gon, unlike Yaddle, would have been successful at bringing Dooku back to the light.
Honestly, they are both right. He would have done as the living force told him. If that would have been join the dark or stay with the light only the force knew.
I don't think he would have joined the Darkside but like you said, perhaps joined Dooku or at the very least stayed in contact from time to time. If Qui-Gon had survived, I always like to think that perhaps he would one day leave the Jedi to perhaps create his own Order of those who stay out of politics and follow the ways of the force and the light. Not sure if that would have happened but I think it could be a cool What If moment.
![Shenseea - Dating Szn (Options) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eUePmZFIXUg/mqdefault.jpg)
"I wish he were still alive. I could use his help right now."
After watching Tales Of The Jedi, that line hits harder now.
💯
Yeah, I look at that line completely different now. As if Dooku felt he would have never be in this position, if Qui Gon was still around to keep him honest.
@@82saw3 not entirely true. In tales Dooku was still assisting Palpatine while Qui Gon was still alive.
The movies quote is pretty much ruined if you treat tales as cannon.
@@Bontai69 I mean he just said he could use his help, not that he would’ve not been a sith. It’s not ruined
I agree dude
Qui Gon is such a good representative of a 'Jedi'. All his qualities are incredible compared to many other Jedis.
Grey Jedi doesn't mean Dark Jedi. Grey Jedi disregard the code's dogma and follow the will of the force even if it takes them somewhere a bit dark. Grey Jedi don't shy away from lying, cheating or romantic relationships. Grey Jedi see the code as a suggestion.
@@jiffypoo5029 So basically villains who don't admit that they are villains? More commonly known as Anti Heroes.
@@georgehouliaras7239 No, they are Good Jedi that are tired of following the strict dogma of Jedi Council. Anger can be a positive thing and Compassion can be a negative thing. Grey Jedi find nuance.
@@jiffypoo5029 So they want to believe in a religion without following any rules of said religion?
Ridiculous. It's like believe in God but you break the 10th commandments when you want to.
The Force has rules. Negative emotions corrupt your mind and flesh. Wielding the Force is a great responsibility that requires discipline. The Light Side is that discipline.
Sure the Jedi are not perfect but perfection itself does not exists and if I lived in the Star Wars universe, I would only worship the Light Side which heals and protects and not the Dark Side which corrupts and destroys.
@@georgehouliaras7239 You don't need strict dogma to be a good person or follow the will of the force. Strict Jedi Dogma led to the Fall of the Republic. Saturday morning Jedi Code door knockers are super annoying too.
I think Qui-Gon would've wanted to help Dooku out of loyalty and respect. In "Master & Apprentice," he tries to contact Dooku on Serenno and never gets a response. I think that if he did try to help Dooku, he would be shocked when he found out the things Dooku has done, like killing Yaddle. Qui-Gon would never turn to the dark side, so I think he ultimately would've had to oppose Dooku in the end, even if he tried to help him at first.
I doubt Dooku would have killed Yaddle had Qui Gon lived
Agreed. Heck, we might have even gotten a bit of a Vader-and-Luke situation, with Dooku reaching a point where he chooses Qui-Gon (and the light) over Palpatine, or tried actively to protect his former padawan.
Agreed.
Plus, I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi.
He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
Sidious said, "For you." I think that means he knew Dooku would have stayed on the Light side if Qui-Gon had lived. More than that, I think between Dooku and Qui-Gon being vocal and taking action, the Jedi Order would have turned away from all the politicking.
That was my thinking too. Say Qui Gon lived... whose to say that he wouldnt have given Dooku advice on how to stay within/ return to the Jedi.
For real, I think of dooku and qui gon really hammerd at them , and especially with possibly obi wan and Anakin backing them up, they could have possibly taken the order in a different direction
I feel like he would have had an effect, but they would both have probably left the order, maybe taking others with them, because the sentiment that the Jedi had lost there way wasn't theirs alone.They wouldnt have left to join the Dark side but continued to act under the guidance of the force the way Qui-gon did, naturally.
I agree.
While I do think staying up to date on politics was one way of being connected to the people that need them, they were too passive, not using that knowledge to have positive influence.
In my opinion, Qui Gon stayed with the Order He must've had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order. Even when he disagreed with them, he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi. And it isn't just the Star Wars universe that needs more men like him, but also our world.
I really want to see a Star Wars What If Series elaborating an entire timeline on What would happen if Qui-Gon Jinn survived.
The series was called Infinites
Star Wars...a what if comic.
What If Obi Wan took the death sti-
“Don’t worry, master! I can just use Force Healing”
“Oh shit you right”
Written and directed by George Lucas
Yes
@@Duckverse obi wan running spice would be a great series
I personally feel Qui gon is in between Dooku and Obi wan. He has some doubts like Dooku did and was an independent thinker. However he was like Obi wan in the sense that he was always in the light and wouldn't actively try to betray the Jedi Order.
Qui-Gon was the greatest and purest example of a Jedi imo. Even Yoda realized how wise Qui-Gon was, and somewhat became his student when Qui-Gon was teaching him how to become a Force Ghost. Losing Qui-Gon destroyed Dooku and Anakin, and brought chaos to the Universe. Qui-Gon is by far my favorite Jedi and one of my top 3 favorite characters in Star Wars.
Yeah, he was the jedi that people like the sisters (who Ahsoka befriended in s7) wanted them to be. He was what the Jedi were supposed to be: To the people, not to Politics.
Agreed.
I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi.
He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
I could not imagine Qui Gon ever joining Dooku. If anything he would’ve convinced him to stay in the light. After all his death was what drove him over the edge, but if Dooku were to turn for some reason while Qui Gon was alive, it wouldn’t be for very long or it wouldn’t happen at all.
I think Qui-Gon may have joined Dooku as a Separatist, but never if he knew Dooku was a Sith.
In my opinion, I feel like since Qui-Gonn was never political, and only followed the force, he wouldn’t join Dooku as a Separatist. I feel like Qui-Gonn would consider joining Dooku as a force user trying to find balance and trying to bring about peace throughout the galaxy, but the second he finds out about Dooku being a Sith he would realize that Dooku’s ideologies and original good intentions are being clouded/corrupted by the dark side. This would most likely shift their relationship because Qui-Gonn can’t believe his master would fall to the dark side. Sidious would likely see Dooku being distracted from this and he’d probably find out from Dooku why happened. Then, Sidious would most likely order Dooku to kill Qui-Gonn as to not ruin any of his plans, thus leading to more of an internal struggle within Dooku. Ofc anything else could’ve happened, but that’s what I think. :)
Highly doubtful. He wouldn't join the seperatist even if they were not allied to the sith. His allegiance is to the republic and to the people too.
@@NickyHelp I agree somewhat, however, I'd say his allegiance is to all innocent people as he would serve only the force. In the clone wars show we see that not all Separatists have evil/bad intentions when Padme and Ahsoka go to visit one of Padme's old colleagues who joined the separatist movement. Instead of Qui-Gonn's allegiance being with the republic, imo I think he doesn't serve any political party, only the people who would need his help.
@@snipadk4146 I do know that not all the separatists are bad. Lux and his mother were living proof of that, before Lux's mother was murdered by Dooku and other separatists lie about it when he's telling the truth. And you wonder why Lux joined the republic as senator of Onderon. And about Qui-Gon, that's exactly what I meant by being a Jedi that they were suppose to be and meant to be (which many Jedi had forgotten, which led many to their deaths and where they regretted it); A Jedi to the people, when they are in need, and one that serves to the force, not to politics or evil.
@@NickyHelp I agree
Honestly, I think Qui-Gon was the only one that could have brought Dooku back the light side, as Luke was the only one who could redeem Anakin.
Thus adding more tragedy to Qui-Gon's death, not only could Anakin's darth path been prevented, but Dooku may have been saved as well.
I think Dooku would’ve stayed in the light had he talked to Qui-Gon before he talked to sidious
Depends on what you consider "light". Dooku would neither stay in the ways of the senate nor would he have become a full blow sith. And the same would be for Qui-gon. I think they both would have helped each other become what Jedi were truly meant to be, which in the eyes of the senate wouldn't be the light side.
@@jokinglemon007 yeah I agree with that that’s basically how I see it.
Qui-gon would’ve swayed him back to the light I believe before he’d join the darkside. The light is love and that is what’s truly good
In the old canon, one big reason why Dooku left the order was because of qui-gon's death and " the lost 20 Jedi" that left as proof that the Jedi Council was out of touch with the happenings and larger shifts of the Force. It was not till later that Dooku joined Sidious to become more powerful.
@@donramon9723 oh that’s interesting where did you read that I’d like to read it!
We really need more Qui-Gon and Dooku content. They have such a great bond, and their distrust and disdain for the corrupt Jedi Council/Order makes me respect them so much more.
I kinda see what you mean.
I think Qui Gon refused a seat on the council BUT stayed with the Order even when he disagreed with them bc he still had influence as he is highly respected by most Jedi.
He is good, he is opinionated, but he is not a quitter. I think QG liked aspects of the code bc "it is the light", there is objective truth in it, and had hope that things could change for better with people like himself in the Jedi Order.
This video also reminds me that you owe us a Part 3 to your What If video series on Qui-Gon surviving the duel of the fates on Naboo, leaving the Order, and training Anakin as a balanced Force adept rather than a Jedi.
Yes please!
I want more Dooku Qui Gon stories!!!!! A clone wars style animated season about them would be so dope. I loved what we got in tales of the jedi
Qui-Gon is what a true Jedi should be. He's wise, kind, always in tune with Force, and a fierce warrior when necessary.
Well im not sure but probably not if Qui Gon found out about his master joining the sith he'd be shocked and confused, but might be convinced cause of dooku and qui gon's connection as a son and father during their young years as Jedi. But idk how Anakin and Obi Wan would react to qui gon joining dooku.
Luke using Qui Gon's crystal to construct his own lightsaber is my head cannon. No one can convince me otherwise. I LOVE that possibility.
I am disappointed that Disney didn't show Qui-Gon's lightsaber buried with obiwan's and Anakin's lightsaber in the Kenobi series. It was one of the little bits that I was hoping for but never got
Great breakdown of what could’ve been had Qui-gon survived the duel against Maul. I’ve enjoyed your videos since I was still in high school back in 2016, and you never disappoint with your breakdowns, they are concise and well thought out. I would love to discuss Star Wars and share our thoughts someday.
hence the music is duel of the fates
So many of us prequel kids loved Qui Gon-Jinn. I am so glad we have gotten more material as time has passed on, and most of the material being very good! I really enjoyed the Jedi Apprentics youth novels growing up! Thanks for the video!
qui gon truly was different from the other jedis during that time especially the jedi counsel and their short shortsightedness at times
Thank you Theory for helping me appreciate Qui-Gon more. 👍🏻
Awesome work including the master & apprentice book. Thought it really deepened his character even more. Him and Obi WAN’s relationship was a stand out. Would really love to see something with qui gon with padawan obi wan. Perhaps future Tales of the Jedi episodes
Qui gon jinn is like everyone’s favorite we need more of him on screen
Qui gon would've never joined Dooku. Jinn was what jedi we're supposed to be. He was a true one and that's why he'll always be my favorite. We definitely need a Qui Gon tales of the jedi episodes.
Just like Palpatine was the consummate Sith, Qui-Gon was the epitome of Jedi. Great video!
Wonderful video!
My sister and I think that Qui-Gon would've been able to bring Dooku back to the light.
Thankful for your opinions and dedication theory
Perhaps parts of Ahsoka's story is that of what Qui-Gon would have become had he lived. Qui-Gon would have become so disillusioned with the Jedi, he would have ended up leaving. And yes he would have sought counsel in his old master. I think Qui-Gon would have gone back to warn the Jedi Council, however, in their blindness and at the same time arrogance, they would have again discounted the warnings. Qui-Gon would have eventually set out on his own path, perhaps trying to bring along Obi-Wan and Anakin in an effort to keep them from falling to the trap being set by the Poppa Palpatine.
It reminds me of what Prosset Dibs said to Windu , that the Jedi are no longer fighting for what they used to , that they are corrupted and stuff and he became the 10th brother after he was released by palpatine to destroy what he thinks the jedi have become , just like Dooku in a way , even though he wasn’t a sith lord .. But I think Qui-Gon would have stormed out from the jedi order as he would have seen the bigger picture of how the jedi became pawns ,if he’d stayed I think it would have destroyed him in degrees
Man this felt so old school Theory, I miss the old prequel days
Therory you pulled a better Liam Nelson impression then I could ever do
The amount of potential that Star Wars has for a “What if?” show on Disney+ is massive, I wish people like Dave or Theory himself worked on Disney.
The audible of that book, is great!
Both Jinn and Dooku knew the senate was corrupt and that the Jedi Order were far from perfect. But Jinn is the one who wouldn't take things too far. Oddly his older more experienced master is the one that was being unwise by falling to the dark side. Jinn knew things had to be changed, but he knew Dooku's way would not be the best way to do it.
That is my favorite quote from Master and Apprentice and Qui-Gon. And it really struck Rael too, because Rael quoted him when Dooku tried to get him to leave the order as well.
Also with Rael, and him not being the best at following Jedi rules, he was also one of the oldest children trained to be a Jedi until Anakin. Rael was 6 years old when he was taken from his family.
Your voice work is fire bro -- we're not sleeping on your skills! Why you aren't doing pro work is astonishing
Another Amazing What if General Theory 💚🙏
I completely agree. He may have left the order and worked with Dooku. Though not as a sith or working for the sith, or some pawn of theirs.
Honestly I really find Qui-Gon Jinn and Ahsoka Tano to have very similar views of the force just like Qui-Gon Jinn after Ahsoka was falsely accused and almost arrested and the Jedi Council tried to play it off as if it was some sort of training exercise she can sense that they were lying to her and at point I think Ahsoka got a glimpse of the bigger picture so as far as being a quote unquote gray Jedi and also seeing how ashoka's Master Anakin fell to the dark side and Qui-Gon jinn's master Count Dooku fell to the dark side I see a lot of similarities between those two characters and I kind of get the feeling that the character of Ahsoka Tano was created to try and continue Qui-gons story as if he had never died and found out and discovered everything that was going on and happening within the Senate and the Jedi Council. Now I don't think Qui-Gon would have fallen to the dark side but have walked away from the Jedi Order becoming a what you would call a Gray Jedi I don't know that's all I feel that's my opinion.
I feel like Qui Gon would have done what Ashoka did in Clone Wars; he would have grown frustrated with the Jedi council and walked out but stayed on the Light side as a sort of "lone ranger," or maybe even tried to start a separate Jedi school somewhere in the Outer Rim where he could teach and train young Force sensitives and other disillusioned Jedi (Anakin included) in his views of The Force, far away from the politics of the Core worlds.
Luke having Qui Gon green Kyber crystal would be awesome!
I think he wouldve believed Dooku but his compassion and genuine concern would've persuaded Dooku back to the light side saying the dark side would not be the way. Dooku would not have joined the Jedi but the grey side of the force.
Would have luved to see some series with Qui-Gon in his adventures from training with Dooku and also teaching Obi Wan.
You should do a video about what factions you would join, Jedi/Sith, Republic/Separatists, Empire/Rebellion, etc, and why. I'd love to see where you'd fall!!!
I feel like Palpatine must have known how Qui-Gon refused to blindly follow politics/the council and that's (one of the reasons) why he didn't spare him for Dooku's sake.
Qui Gon is such a good representative of a jedi all his qualities are incredidle compared to many other jedis
If he had survived and stayed with the Jedi, I wonder how he would’ve adapted to being a general during the Clone Wars
Thank you theory! Such good star wars words of wisdom.
Qui-gon and Obi-wan are the ideal image of a Jedi. Humble and honorable
I think under the right circumstances he would've joined the Separatist movement, but not the Sith. Dooku's Sith alignment would've been the deal breaker. Also, you're so right. That always bothered me in AOTC. The Jedi confirm that the clone army was created after being commissioned by a Jedi without the approval of the Council, but when fear took over the senate and people started preaching, "We need that clone army" the Jedi just rolled with it. *facepalm -- Nice video, man!
I would love to see Qui-Gon confronting his old master and pleading with Dooku to return to the Light.
This is the content I love from you
You just won yourself a report! I guess next you'll be starwarstheory_2?
I think Qui-gon would have turned Dooku instead of the other way around. Maybe not back to the council, but away from Palpatine.
Obi Wan : Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
Obi Wan: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.
A New Hope Is definitely canon.
I'm also seriously hoping Luke's Kyler crystal is Qui-Gon's, that representation where his teachings or his wisdom lives on passed to Luke in a way.
That would just nail it in so Epic!
Yeah that is a much better touch than Yoda having Qui Gon's cloak which, from a narratives perspective, is totally inconsequential. As you say, there is a lot of symbolism to Luke having QuI Gon's crystal because Luke was essentially the complete jedi.
Qui-gon always struck me as the ideal jedi, and what a jedi should be. So while I believe he would have left the order with his master I don’t think he would have gone along with Sidious and Dooku’s plans. I would actually argue he would try to keep Dooku from joining Sidious or at the least during the clone war would try to turn him back to the light much like Luke did with Vader. Unfortunately due to having to get Anakin to being Vader he had to die.
Dude it would be such a cool thing to know that Luke’s crystal is literally from qui gons lightsaber. A cool thing with the flow of masters, something being passed down.
I think it's more likely Qui-Gon would have prevented Dooku from turning to the dark side. He probably would have talked with Dooku and together they would agree they needed to leave the order with Anakin and go do their own thing, starting a secret order of force wielders somewhere else.
There is zero chance of Qui-Gon turning from the light side. Like he said, he chooses the light because it is the light. That is a mindset of a man who has forsaken all else in service of the ultimate good in the universe. He aligns himself to that and that alone. Once someone reaches that level of wisdom, it is damn near impossible to ever have them fall.
Also I think the reason Qui-Gon couldn't reach out to Anakin to stop him from becoming Vader is the same reason Anakin couldn't reach out to Ben Solo to stop him from becoming Kylo Ren. I have a theory that because Force Ghosts are the end result of following the light side to the fullest, they can't reach out to those in darkness. It's like the dark side blinds them to the voice of Force Ghosts.
What I would have loved to have seen is instead of Ben having a memory of Han show up after he turns back to the light, have Anakin appear and finally reconcile this obsession Ben had with Vader. Have Ben ask, "Why did you never reach out to me before?" And Anakin would explain, "I tried to Ben...I tried to so many times. But you were so steeped in the dark side that it deafened your ears, blinded your eyes, and closed off your heart to me. Only now that you have taken your first step back into the light have I been able to speak to you as you are now."
Yes! Yes please!
Had quigon survived, I think he would've left the order and maybe even have joined with dooku for awhile but would be left when he found out about all the deaths he and palpatine had caused. Imagine if that were the case and then obiwan had sent ahsoka to meet him after she left the order. That would have been a powerhouse duo.
I think Qui-Gon and Dooku would have formed their own side with Anakin. Neither dark siders nor true Jedi anymore. Merely servants of the force
I would’ve loved to seen qui gon in Star Wars more I think he would’ve joined dooku but wouldn’t have turned to the dark side but I think he might’ve helped dooku not turn to a Sith too
This video is yet another testament that GL made a mistake in killing QGJ in TPM. I think Anakin's and Obi-wans story arc would have been much better enriched if they QGJ survived through the PT. Where in AotC he is infirmed from his injuries from the DM fight and cannot directly instruct Anakin, but is instead a youngling instructor with Yoda. QGJ also serves as a counter mentor to Palpatines relationship, an "uncle iroh" if you will. It is QGJ Anakin visits instead of Yoda when he has disturbing dreams, but it's clear QGJ and Palpatine are conducting an emotional duel with Anakin in the middle, Palpatine slowly plants seeds of distrust in Anakin. In AotC I think it would have been interesting to have Dooku attempt to recruit QGJ. I think this could have easily led to a story where QGJ is instrumental in discovering Palpatine's true identity. And it is QGJ that brings the contingent of Jedi to confront Palpatine this time including Anakin. Since he is compromised as a fighter, he is not able to engage Palpatine directly with the rest of the Jedi, but instead only uses Force powers against him. As Anakin enters the fight, he originally is against Palpatine. With 6 jedi (the original 4 + anakin + QGJ) against Sidious, no jedi die immediately (and stupidly imo), as powerful as DS is, he simply cannot counter their numbers especially as QGJ is able to influence the fight from afar with the force, intervening when each jedi is vulnerable to a Sidious attack. Throughout the fight Sidious is trying to influence Anakin, feeding small half-truths/lies in the dialog, and then Sidious tells the great lie to Anakin, that QGJ stole him from his mother, that QGJ knew all along he was on Tatooine suffering as a slave and only liberated him at the right moment for the Jedi's machinations. Now, Anakin conflicted and confused as a memory of his mother and a vision of the death of Padme overwhelms him; he snaps and unexpectedly turns on the jedi. The sudden switch in balance in the fight, Anakin surprises Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar and kills them both, and Palpatine electrocutes QGJ. The fight is now Mace & Kit Fisto vs Palpatine & Anakin as we hear echoes of Duel of the Fates, with QGJ disabled he is unable to help the combatants. Eventually Anakin is able to kill Kit Fisto, and save Palpatine from a killing blow from Mace Windu. As masterful as Mace Windu is, he cannot take both Anakin and Palpatine together, eventually they overpower him. Now only QGJ is left, injured from Palaptine's attack, but not dead. Anakin still grappling the consequences of his actions, QGJ makes a final plea to Anakin. And just like Dooku before, as a final test for Anakin, Palpatine orders Anakin to kill QGJ (a "stand in" for the killing the younglings directly and perhaps a threat to find and kill all his young students). In a similar way Dooku struggles emotionally with dispatching Yaddle, so does Anakin struggle, but eventually strikes down QGJ, BUT.... as a shock and surprise to both Anakin and Palpatine, he disappears. The first Jedi to find the pathway to the living force. And it is here, Yoda first hears QGJ's voice.
I'm sure there is a ton of consistencies (and contradiction to official canon) in this rendition, but it's my head canon. :)
I really wish we had more canon content about Qui-Gon. I don't think he would have ever joined the Dark Side. As you said, I see him as a Jedi in the term's truest form. And I completely agree that he probably would have left the Jedi Order and gone a more "Ahsoka route" as I call it. Though, I do have to say, even though it's not "canon" anymore (boo!!!), my first introduction to Star Wars was with my obsession with the 'Jedi Apprentice' EU/Legends books as a kid, and Qui-Gon did sway towards the darkness for a very brief period of time from what I remember because of events I will not spoil in case anyone ever does wanna read the series (seriously, the books were so good!). Considering how much Star Wars knowledge you have, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. So we know that everyone has a breaking point. Simply just being disillusioned from the Jedi Order, though? No way. That wouldn't have turned him to the Dark Side.
Also, I just wanna say that I never read the 'Master & Apprentice' book, mainly because of my attachment to the 'Jedi Apprentice' series, but I am glad to hear they kept that Qui-Gon thought Obi-Wan was such a loser at first! I remember how none of the other Jedi Masters wanted to train Obi-Wan in the EU series 😂 I really need to go back and read those books, 'cause I don't remember everything or how exactly Obi-Wan ended up being taken on by Qui-Gon despite being seen as no-good. They're so hard to find nowadays, but I got lucky because the visually impaired digital library I use just so happens to have most of the series. The only benefit I've ever found to being visually impaired: being able to find those old books. Lol
it all started in banes day when a Valoram wanted the jedi to answer to the senate, and while they were good intentions that led the edi down the path to ruin, while bane and his succsessors slowly corrupted the galaxay like a poison
Good video. I believe Qui Gon would have left the Jedi Order, but not turn to the dark side. He probably would be like Ahsoka and just keep a low-profile living a simple life, but helping people from time to time.
Imagine if Qui gon survived fighting maul, just to die by his master's hands later on. Dude that would of broke me
Up to Lucas... I don't he'd speculate. He's rather final when it comes to his decisions. I've seen him shut down "what if" questions before. His answer would probably be "He was always going to die" or something.
According to Shadows of the Empire, Luke synthetically created his lightsaber crystal. He did use Kenobi's plans though and built it in his house on Tatooine
Why does Qui Gon appear older than Dooku? It was a thing that in Ep1, Qui Gon's age is why he wasn't able to beat Maul, he lacked stamina as a result, yet Dooku had zero issues being one of the best duelists in Star Wars canon.
"He could have been a great ally." Palpatine replies, "For you... perhaps." It makes me think Palpatine feels Qui-Gon could have turned Dooku away from the darkside the way Yaddle tried unsuccessfully to do. I'm starting to think Ahsoka continued the path Qui-Gon would have taken. From outside the Jedi order he might have been able to convince Dooku to change his plan and together fight Palpatine, but it's also possible Qui-Gon couldn't have stopped Dooku. Dooku might have even ended up killing Qui-Gon, but it would have had an effect on his actions.
I like to think that QuiGon's help wouldn;t be him turning to the sith, but rather Helping Dooku find other means to reform the Jedi and beat the Sith.
I like that idea. I think yaddle would have joined them too. She saw what they saw and stepped down from the council. Had things gone differently, she would have helped reformed the jedi
Had Dooku asked Qui-Gon to join him on Coruscant It would've gone down like Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader. But with help by the entire Jedi Council. Possibly Dooku would been beaten and detained. Maybe, just maybe Dooku could've been reformed and saw the error of his way. Then again, maybe not. ...but then I think of how Palpatine had no further use of him once Anakin had him disarmed (literally) and on his knees. I think he saw working with Palpatine as a means to an end, to teach the Jedi a lesson to not interfere in the politics of the Galactic Republic, and go back to being peace-keepers. Qui-Gon's death further deepened his disgust and set him on a warpath with the Jedi. Too bad he realized too late right when Palpatine said "Do it." That he was just a Pawn, in Palpatine's game.
Qui Gon Jinn Should've Saved Dooku From Turning to The Dark Side!!! Love this Video @Star Wars Theory You Should Do one of your What Ifs on What If Kanan Jarrus Learned Vi' Paad from His Master Depa Billaba? If Mace Windu Would've Allowed For that to Happen
QuiGon is my all time favorite jedi, all my life since 93 Yoda was my number 1 but now its is Mr.Jinn
This was such an interesting video and the topic i've given much thought to. First off, Qui Gon would NEVER join the dark side. I also don't believe , had he lived, that he'd have become a General and led troops. He was a servant of the Force, not the Council and he clearly had a mind of his own and lived by his moral code and basic principles. Secondly, i believe he'd have left the Jedi Order once the war broke out and he was told to lead troops. He'd have seen they had truly lost their way and lost their principles and become tools of the Senate. I don't believe he'd haVE joined Dooku at all. Remember, he'd seen his old Master use the dark side as a padawan and because of their bond, he'd have sensed the increasing darkness in him. While they might agree on many things, Qui Gon would never join him and participate in mass slaughter, mass Jedi excecutions or creating a galactic war.
Such a deep, thought-provoking topic!
I think we all know the Qui Gon would never have joined the Separatists and definitely not have become a war general. But the question we all want answered is: Could Qui Gon have potentially stopped Dooku from going forward with his plans and come back to the light?
for me I see Qui-Gon sensing that something was slightly off about his former master words, he would probably keep Dooku at arm's length til he finally learned the truth of Dooku being a sith lord, afterwards he might start planning to hide from Palpatine's gaze via slowly reducing his force signature and then when the time was right tell Obi-wan of his plan preserve the Jedi teachings by escaping to a secluded part of the galaxy to prepare for a coming darkness that he perceived though the Force.
P.S. but this is only speculation on my part if I were in his position.
I think Qui-Gon would definitely leave The Jedi Order at some point but not to join The Dark Side. He is are Grey Jedi character of the franchise so he'll remain there. One thing you didn't touch is if Qui-Gon survives the duel with Darth Maul then Obi-Wan probably doesn't become so dogmatic and like Qui-Gon with Dooku, Obi-Wan would slowly adopt Qui-Gon's perspective on some things which would make him question the Order more. He wouldn't be training Anakin so that pressure is gone. Maybe he'd have a different apprentice a lot later in life though.
I think if Qui-Gon had survived he would have joined Dooku for a little bit, but after finding out his true plans he would return to the Jedi and tell them what Dooku is doing and what he is planning to do
If there was no palpatine and just qui gon and dooku doing their thing, I think they could be successful
A “what if” animated series where an episode is about Quigon living and going through a similar scenario you talked of in this video @starwarstheory
Master and apprentice novel shows why he didn’t accept the council seat. I feel like if he was still alive when Anakin was going through it he would’ve got through anakins thick skull and told him the master title means nothing and that he would’ve helped Anakin behind closed doors
I kind of see this debate in a different matter; what if qui-gon never joined anyone or stayed anywhere? Not with the Jedi, not with Dooku at his fall, what if, after training Obi Wan, he wanted out? I feel thats a very real possibility and very real thought of a lot of Jedi who go through their training, become a Jedi Knight, and witness the broader picture of what the Jedi were at that time.
Could you make a video explaining how darth mauls lightsaber still worked even after being cut in half. I’ve always wondered why this happened
"I could use his help right now" Perhaps that means something else, perhaps he wanted his help to avoid turning to the dark side. OR to look for alternate soutions,.
I think he would have left the order and joined Dooku, discovered Tyranus' plans and his manipulation of Dooku, left them and warned the Jedi but would not have gone back to the order. He would become a traveler roaming the universe, training and living within the will of the force, which sometimes lead him to do great things for "good". But sometimes took him down a path that he thought to be "wrong" but did not fully understand the will of the force at the time.
Probably Qui Gon wouldn't join Dooku to become a Sith, but I really see him leaving the Jedi order along with Dooku to do their own thing and become something like a grey Jedi.
Dooku & Qui-Gon, a Dark side user & a Light side user, together to create a new order with their first apprentice, the Choosen One, Anakin who will bring balance to the Force
What I always assumed if Qui gon didn’t die is he would’ve believed Dooku but left the order as the Jedi have lost their way becoming political and following just the senate instead of those in true need. If a war was gonna happen that was a huge no for him as he likely would’ve left the order refusing to be part in the conflict and likely would try to bring Jedi like Yoda and so on to follow him and just follow the force rather than their codes
I think Qui-Gon didn't reach out to Anakin as a ghost because he didn't want to mess with whatever Anakin's destiny was. He wanted to let the force do its thing.
Theory’s Qui Gon impression needs to be Order 66’d
Qui-Gon fu*king with the dice is tapping into the, "Dark Side"? LMAO
Imo there is a great what if story that's basically a what if Anakin started a Jedi Civil War. I think if Qui-Gon joined Dooku, they would of started a Jedi Rebellion, a civil war.
Grey Jedi aren't Dark Jedi they are Jedi that see the code as a suggestion; Dooku created a line of Grey Jedi who disregard the council and follow the will of the force even if it takes them to a dark place. There is a direct line from Dooku's training to Ahsoka and Luke. Even Obi-Wan despite being on the council was constantly lying, stealing, having a secret girlfriend, hiding things from the council and even a few assassinations. Grey Jedi doesn't mean Dark Jedi.
Aye, most don't realise that Grey Jedi are still Jedi, they are just Jedi on the fridges of the Jedi Order.
I don’t think Qui Gon would ever turn to the dark side. However, I do think he would’ve eventually left the Jedi order. After he left the Jedi order Dooku would approach him to sway him to the dark side, but would instead be convinced by Qui Gon to leave Palpatine.
Both Dooku and Qui Gon would become grey jedi and train Anakin. Their combined teachings would develop Anakin’s potential to a much a higher level than Obi Wan’s ever could.
Would Qui-Gon have gone to the Dark Side? No.
Would he have helped Dooku, say with the Clones or other things that weren't overtly Dark Side related? Sure, I think that he would.
I think that in that scene with Dooku and Sidious Yaddle was, in a way, a stand-in for Qui-Gon; that once Qui-Gon knew about Sidious the same scenario would have played out. Sidious would have invoked The Rule of Two, manipulated Dooku into fighting his former Padawan, and even if they joined forces against him Sidious would have killed them both.
You are correct that Qui Gon would have been Anakin’s best teacher and that he is what Jedi should have been.
Duel of the Fates not only reflects the fate of Anakin but also the fate of Dooku. Qui-Gon's death was the last straw for Dooku. I think Qui-Gon, unlike Yaddle, would have been successful at bringing Dooku back to the light.
Honestly, they are both right. He would have done as the living force told him. If that would have been join the dark or stay with the light only the force knew.
Oh don’t be so sure my young Jedi , you forget he was once my padwan just like you were his
I don't think he would have joined the Darkside but like you said, perhaps joined Dooku or at the very least stayed in contact from time to time.
If Qui-Gon had survived, I always like to think that perhaps he would one day leave the Jedi to perhaps create his own Order of those who stay out of politics and follow the ways of the force and the light. Not sure if that would have happened but I think it could be a cool What If moment.