One of the black sheep here. I actually liked Nemesis story and battles, one thing I didn't like was the Deanna crutch (but that's another story for another page). In battle the Scimitar would look frightening but that'd be glossed over by the fact it'd be a fight to the death. I agree with both of you Samuel and Stuart, both have your points: to instill fear among the masses attack the home, to weaken the resolve of the military/fleets decimate a major battle group(s). In my opinion if you want to deal a heavy blow to someone's emotions or will, attack and destroy what is left of the Klingon Empire. At that point after the Dominion War the Klingon fleets were in shambles no thanks to the Cardassian/Dominion/Breen Alliance and Gowron's poor militaristic decisions. A killing blow to the KDF, everyone else would be frightened of you.
6:10 the shot of the scimitar the arms are in process of raising upward.I think Riker said it best in the film..."Destroy Earth, you cripple the Federation"
The Scimitar by itself was intimidating but picture it at the centre of a Dominion War style battlegroup with dozens of warbirds providing support and hundreds of those fighters flying around. Now that's scary!
The Commander is forgetting that trying to destroy fleet after fleet after fleet will put a strain on the resources of the ship and you run the risk of a crafty opponent destroying your ship by ejecting a warp core on to it or ramming it and then self destructing or even multiple rammings to stop you.
i do want to point out that the vengeance while it is star fleet, i falls under section 31. it was designed for the war with the Klingon's that Admiral Marcus wanted
Actually RE : final weapons. Even the Wave Motion canon from Yamato had to charge, and it was powered by the Wave Motion Engine ! I don't think you can charge a large weapon like that even hooked up to the main drive. Another EX is the Ent D deflector dish cannon, still had to charge.
On closer inspection this thing actually looks like a hugely upscaled one man fighter. A rather smallish one at that. Just look at that hull shape. It could easily be an incarnation of the Bat Wing.
ilejovcevski79 , that has always been my main complaint. It looks like a one man fighter. It just isn't a good design for something that is supposed to be so large. Nothing on the ship makes it look as large as we are being told. More window lights would have helped to sell its size. As is, I can totally see the top half opening to reveal a cockpit, lol!
5:00 The thing I would say that this ship has got over the USS Vengeance is that it actually needs a crew of more than one person to operate. It has got fighters to justify its size and the Vengeance had neither of those things. 14:51 The battle in “Star Trek: First Contact” had been going on for a much longer time. The Borg Cube destroyed a plethora of ships before arriving at Earth. I don't know, I think that a fleet of Defiant/Prometheus-class ships could have defeated the Scimitar. The tactics to find cloaked vessels invisible to sensors were known to Starfleet personnel back in Kirk's days.
Exactly. 8-) "Mr. Worf, prepare a full phaser spread, zero elevation, all banks on my mark. Scan for shield impacts, stand-by photon torpedoes." Probably about the only thing I liked about the whole movie.
I would say that it having the fighters on it would make it kind of an aircraft carrier. this could explain the size. Carriers are the biggest ships that we have in todays Navy, so it would stand to reason that would carry over. What do you think?
Have to admit I agree with the Commander on Shinzon's tactics being at best dunderheaded and at worst outright stupid in terms of attacking Earth. Making the scimitar a torpedo boat on steroids makes more sense than just having a big flashy "Kill everything... in five minutes." gun, add to the fact she was a serious threat just as a carrier then attacking the fleets makes much more sense than Shinzon just wanting to show off his toy. Plus the fact that he wanted to randomly nuke Earth is what caused Donatra to turn on him and show up with the two Valdore-class warbirds (ok so they were about as much use as a tribble on a diet but point still stands) so if Shinzon had just been sensible, told Picard "By the way, I'm dying and need your blood to survive." (which was pretty much what happened to Sarek and Spock in Journey to Babel so we know it's possible to perform a hefty blood transfusion and for all we know Beverly has a ridiculously massive supply of replicated blood on hand so it's not like anybody at any point couldn't have just suggested this. If Shinzon had just not bothered with the whole "Nuke Earth" plan then he would have probably done quite well for himself and I just realised that I spent five minutes typing up an analysis of a plot hole you could fly a Borg Cube through in Star Trek: Nemesis... Oh well, basically Shinzon is an idiot and Commander Cockings is right about making the Simmy a Torpedo Boat the size of Lake Michigan.
I agree with the captain, the longer you use something in battle, the chance of a weakness goes up. WWII has a great example with this the German magnetic mines, one was dropped to close to the shore off Great Britain and they carefully opened and learned how it worked.
I agree with the commander; destroying so many ships that the Federation can't even protect themselves makes them vulnerable. This doesn't just end with the Romulans, but everyone who might have a grudge against them, including the borg, Species 8472, and maybe some other species who might want a piece of the action, like some small Klingon house or something. If i had the scimitar, i would have taken no chances and taken out the fleets first, and then flip a coin over whether or not i would destroy the core planets. After all, i wouldn't want an uprising to happen :)
I agree to a point. However, I think Andor , Vulcan and Kling can mount a defense, but not Telerite, Bolians or Gorn . I think the Breen, Tholians, could hold their own but are likely remain neutral. We have not yet seen anything like a Star Trek version of Cap America Civil War or Infinity War. That's something I would like to see.
the real downfall of this ship is logistics after a couple of battles it would need repairs and rearming at which point the federation the Klingons and the turned Romulans could mobilize to end this threat, they would likely work together since the threat it posed and the effectiveness their alliance was against the dominion who . the thaleron weapon is one hit wonder it could only be used once as surprise attack, after this the ship would become a sitting duck if it tried to use it again. this ship even though it could destroy hundreds of ships wouldn't be effective against the whole federation and its allies, a federation reeling after borg and dominion invasions and making sure they aren' caught off guard again the federation lost thousands of ships to those conflicts and it didn't break. lastly, even if the Scimitar destroyed earth all it would do is piss the federation off yes billions would die the federation would lose countless dignitaries and admirals but its a federation of planets a coalition of races that strengthen each other they could relocate to Vulcan or vega or any of the 180-190 member planets or colonies, if shinzons plan had worked it would be 2 destroyed planets billions dead and 2 of the most powerful states in alpha and beta quadrants wanting him dead, if anything his actions would've caused a newfound friendship between the federation and Romulan empire united by a most terrible tragedy.
I actually think the thaeleron cannon was a better alternative, albeit not a great one, but better than attacking Starfleet. Starfleet is just coming off a war with the Klingons, a borg incursion, and the dominion war. They are mobilized, they have ships like the defiant, akira, and Prometheus. It is a much more militarized Starfleet, not to mention their Klingon allies or the rest of the romulan empire (heck even what’s left of the Cardassians as well, since the switched sides at the end of the war.) I mean in the last 10 years, Starfleet faced, in pretty rapid succession, the Borg AND the Dominion and won, so I doubt Starfleet would take shit from a bunch of rejected romulan slaves lead by a petulant, reckless, and foolhardy Clone. That being said, I still would have loved to see the scimitar deal with the rest of starfleet’s task force, because I imagine the battle would have been glorious and probably would have been yet another wake up call for Starfleet that they are in fact a military. Anyway, I’m kinda surprised you guys like this ship (USS vengeance considering, although I actually like the vengeance), always a great time hearing you guys theorize, and analyze, gives me an excuse to nerd out on some awesome ships. I would love to see your impressions on the executor class super star destroyer, or the eclipse class SSD, actually, any massive dreadnought from the Star Wars universe (there are more than you think). Keep up the great work guys
Far as the 'Doomsday' argument it isn't too far out of reach consider 'The Uniform' DS9 episode, Sisko launches 2 torpedoes with Trilithium attached to make a planet not inhabitable for 50 yrs from the Defiant. (I think its still OD... It's like playing some RPG and your friend wants to be a Fighter-Mage-Ninja-Wizard...)
The primary weapon was the Thealaron Emmitter. Everthing else, including the fighters and all the phase / disruptor banks was meant to protect the ship while it engaged its primary weapon.
laugh at the charging time if you want but the scimitar was literally just rammed by the Enterprise, so i think that cause real problems w/ power. the bridge officer said the disruptiors as all of them were off line so ya. cut them some slack. plus i'm pretty sure it was supposed to fire the thaleron pulse while cloaked. this time it's cloak was also offline.
This was the first Star Trek "we have no way of beating this ship one on one" big bad enemy ship as well as a "Death Star." Then JJ really had to bang on that same drum twice with the Narada and the Vengeance.
loved this ship mainly because its pure power, it is a ship that has two shield grids and ablative style armor it was such a jump since it can fire and maintain shields while cloaked the enterprise E one of if not the most advanced federation ship with a very experienced crew aided by 2 of the latest Romulan warbirds did only 30% damage to its primary shields and that was with the scimitar going easy on them. i think it's an awesome ship, that many races including the borg would struggle with, but it's not invincible the tactics would eventually be discerned and a large enough fleet would damage it and tech could be used against it eg the tholians could just create a web around their installations or a variation of the dominion detection method. the real downfall of this ship is logistics after a couple of battles it would need repairs and rearming at which point the federation the Klingons and the turned Romulans could mobilize to end this threat, they would likely work together since the threat it posed and the effectiveness their alliance was against the dominion who . the thaleron weapon is one hit wonder it could only be used once as surprise attack, after this the ship would become a sitting duck if it tried to use it again. this ship even though it could destroy hundreds of ships wouldn't be effective against the whole federation and its allies, a federation reeling after borg and dominion invasions and making sure they aren' caught off guard again the federation lost thousands of ships and it didn't break. lastly, even if the Scimitar destroyed earth all it would do is piss the federation off yes billions would die the federation would lose countless dignitaries and admirals but its a federation of planets a coalition of races that strengthen each other they could relocate to Vulcan or vega or any of the 180-190 member planets or colonies, if shinzons plan had worked it would be 2 destroyed planets billions dead and 2 of the most powerful states in alpha and beta quadrants wanting him dead, if anything his actions would've caused a newfound friendship between the federation and Romulan empire united by a most terrible tragedy. To be honest, that's something i would've liked to see in the new show, maybe set in the 2390s or 2400s maybe the Romulans taking of joining the UFP after its stars and planets destruction (there's theories that the prime timeline exists alongside the jj verse) and according to star trek wiki the Klingons empire joined the UFP by at least by the 2550s also maybe talk of that as well, while trying to establish a peace with the breen and tholians while finding new races, but alas no we get another prequel.
I think they were planning on a new show set after nemesis with either star trek worf or federation but both idea's were shelved pity as those 2 would've been a much better setup for the time war, xindi, builders & adv rom drone ships then enterprise as it would've made more sense
yeah most fans know roughly what happened before TOS but they still make shows there, like the only post nemesis material which would be awesome cannon is star trek online with the iconians manipulating species 8472, and the Klingons to cause war ect sto is some of the best trek writing ive seen it captures the essence of trek
The Scimitar is the Reemans version of a dreadnought combined with a doomsday weapon. Still not very tactical to put all your eggs in one starship. Unless it has really great shields.
after watching many at least of half of these is still comes out heavy opinion. I can understand the approach but formatting and lack in break in fact and opinion. a good visual cue like changing the HUD colors could help. on the galaxy beam strip, why would large arcs of the strip light up when they fire a phaser if they are just a bunch of emitters lined around the hull.
it would make sense for the scimitar to take out the federation fleet using the thaleron radiation, the ship could (as they say in the movie) pass within 10 metres of their hull and the'd never know. so with the fleets being destroyed, starfleet wouldn't necessarily know how to defend against it but if the scimitar knocked out a large enough fleet, it could link up with the romulan fleet and mount an offensive on earth directly once the scimitar has taken out starbase 1. simply destroying earth wouldn't be enough to cripple the federation and to think it will is just human arrogance.
I always thought the only thing that let Nemesis down was the final battle, why didn't Starfleet have the reinforcement fleet meet the Enterprise at a half way rendezvous point? The fleet and The E heading towards each other at maximum warp could have set up a cool multi ship battle, the two Romulans+a dozen Starfleet ships+The E could have allowed them to show how much of a bad ass the Schimitar was in theory setting up the final scenes and Datas sacrifice better. Plus you could cameo in Janeway on Voyager or Kira on Defiant leading the reinforcement fleet for some fan service.
I don't mean every phaser bank, I mean every individual emitter in each phaser bank. Stuart said at 9:52 that the main bank on the Galaxy has over 200 emitters for example.
All of them? No. Even if it could be done without overloading the system the resulting beam would be so weak it'd be useless. The EPS system can only feed so much plasma into the array which is then directed toward the prefire chambers of the emitters that will fire. Multiple segments are included in a normal firing sequence, with the speed and order at which they're fired affecting things like beam thickness and shape, but not all of them at once.
@ Moro of Ork - yes, it did BofBw, when it created the antimatter shower to conceal the shuttlecraft worf and riker used to rescue picard ! be it a defensive screen not actually to create damage, but it made for a spetacular light show.
Mark Plott The anti-matter spread was one of those things that never made sense to me tech-wise. How exactly did they get the phaser emitters to fire antimatter? Assuming there's an antimatter equivalent of a nadion (antinadion?) how's it generated? Or did they suddenly convert the phasers into disruptors? Or even worse... if you have read Peter David's Vendetta (and if you haven't, you should, it's awesome) Anti-Matter Spread was used as a powerful offensive weapon (which it isn't, as you say- it's a light show).
You are thinking with the modern wsr theory mindset. The problem is the Romulins adopt a Roman mindset. Where home planet us central to not only military, but society. Rome the city is equal to god.
As for the time to charge up the big doomsday weapon, I think NORMALLY they would have charged it up while still cloaked. The only reason they didn't in the movie is they couldn't at that point.
Here's my take on the Scimitar (entirely made up)... Built in a secret shipyard by his Reman henchmen (likely based on Romulan design concepts) while he himself kept making a name for himself in his battles for the Romulan Empire in the Dominion War, this was Picard-clone Shinzon's big weapon (it really is one, actually, but more of that later) and flagship to take over the Romulan Empire and then fullfill what he deemed his destiny - annihilate Earth's population and conquer the UFP. This very large prototype and completey new design made use of an experimental Thalaron core, which was basically a usual Romulan quantum singularity core (as used on most Romulan spacecraft) powering a thalaron field generation matrix, which in turn allowed for increasing the singularity’s size for a much larger, yet perfectly stable singularity that enabled the ship to harness enormous amounts of energy. So enormous infact, that the ship was capable of being equipped with - a ludicrous amount of weapons (standard Romulan plasma torpedoes and pulse disruptors, but MANY of them), by far outgunning everything UFP and Klingon Empire had ever fielded before - an entire secondary shield grid, resulting in both grids combined generating field strengths well above anything the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers have ever produced - a cloaking system with a number of field emitters unheard of in known space (which not only hid the ship itself perfectly, but even any sort of energy radiation including weapons fire and the thalaron field) which allowed the ship to fire its weapons, keep its shields up AND reach maximum warp speed while being cloaked and entirely without disrupting the cloak’s quality - a plasma-based warp propulsion system designed to withstand and fully use the thalaron core’s absurd power delivery, allowing the protoype to catch up to the already blisteringly fast Sovereign class USS Enterprise-E at maximum warp in short time. The downside to this approach was that it heavily relied on the design's superiority in combat, or to be more precise: Its ability to keep the thalaron core running. The impulse reactors of the design, while being numerous and powerful enough to grant the Scimitar a fairly high impulse speed and manoeuverability for its intimidating size, were on their own simply not nearly powerful enough to sustain the dual-shielding, the cloaking AND the heavy weaponry all at once. Should the Thalaron core take damage and shut down, the secondary shield grid and advanced cloaking were disabled and only a certain number of disruptors could stay powered simultaneously, which reduced the Scimitar's combat capabilities to a degree where the ship would have serious trouble facing any Sovereign- or Negh'var class cruiser. But the Thalaron core was quite robust and well guarded by the enormously powerful ship around it. Until the time of its destruction, the Scimitar in proper fighting condition couldn't be stopped by anything short of a Dominion battleship or a Borg cube. Yet all this pulverizing performance was a mere side-effect to the Scimitar’s intended use. Thalaron radiation was banned from use among the known galactic powers due to its biogenic properties, being able to completely destroy organic matter with ease on a large scale. So in the end, despite the vast hangar spaces, despite the scientific and medical facilites on board, this was the one final purpose of the Scimitar - an enormous, thalaron-based weapon. The ship could „open its wings“ to bring the emitter grid into position, to then launch a huge burst of thalaron particles onto its target. The level of radiation the thalaron core on the Scimitar was generating was enough to enclose an entire planet in a destructive radiation field. The very target was: Earth. The plan however failed, the prototype was destroyed. Because the entire ship was designed around its nature as a warship and large Thalaron generator, it was fairly useless without its (forbidden) Thalaron core - no conventional power source could support the insane weaponry and its unbelievably fast warp drive. Thus, the design was scrapped - and most likely no other ship of this type will ever be constructed.
I would love to see a Starfleet version of the Scimitar, basically an Overpowered super war ship. 24th/25 Century Prime ship, not Jar Jar USS Vengeance...
I don't think it's ever established that it couldn't use its deathray while cloaked, is it? So the ten minute countdown might not be such a drawback if the target doesn't know you're there.
-52 disrupters works out to be 8 or 9 disrupters in all 6 arcs. In fact when the brown Norexean was taken out Scimitar INDEED first 8 or 9 shots at once. -In the original draft of Nemesis Star Fleet was supposed to have a larger fight with Scimitar including Task Force Omega ships. The script was chopped down...likely after visual had been completed. Visually the VFX DO INDEED show a difference between Scimitar torpedoes and Scimitar Disrupters but the script calls out "All disrupters, FIRE." in at least two occasions Evidence Here (with Pictures) www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,7941.40.html.
I am semi-proud to be in the small but distinct group of people that kinda liked Nemesis. Wasn't perfect but it wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. (Well, the desert buggy sequence was.) Biggest problem with it was that the director cut' out all the character scenes. I highly recommend watching the deleted scenes; they're quite good. I wish there was a... ah... help me out here, what's the opposite of a director's cut?
I particularly lamment the cutting of the Picard/Data-scene directly after the wedding and the one in the bar (whatever the Enterprise E's version of Ten Forward was; i think the books call it the Happy Bottom Riding Club).
"Disliking" something isn't hating. In fact it helps the channel out. RUclips operates on a flagging-system; every interaction with a video (watching it, commenting on it, Like and, yes, Dislike, Sharing etc) adds another flag; the more flags it has the more likely it is to come up in a search for one of it's tags. In short: every bit helps the content producer, including Dislikes.
One of the black sheep here.
I actually liked Nemesis story and battles, one thing I didn't like was the Deanna crutch (but that's another story for another page).
In battle the Scimitar would look frightening but that'd be glossed over by the fact it'd be a fight to the death.
I agree with both of you Samuel and Stuart, both have your points: to instill fear among the masses attack the home, to weaken the resolve of the military/fleets decimate a major battle group(s).
In my opinion if you want to deal a heavy blow to someone's emotions or will, attack and destroy what is left of the Klingon Empire. At that point after the Dominion War the Klingon fleets were in shambles no thanks to the Cardassian/Dominion/Breen Alliance and Gowron's poor militaristic decisions. A killing blow to the KDF, everyone else would be frightened of you.
The ship looks like a bat. The Remans look like nosferatu. Shinzon is trying to steal Picard's blood. Hmm...
Scimitar is a batman meme for sure.
In Star Trek Nemesis they said Shinzon and the Scimitar won 12 major engagements against the Dominion. I would have loved to see those battles!
6:10 the shot of the scimitar the arms are in process of raising upward.I think Riker said it best in the film..."Destroy Earth, you cripple the Federation"
The Scimitar by itself was intimidating but picture it at the centre of a Dominion War style battlegroup with dozens of warbirds providing support and hundreds of those fighters flying around. Now that's scary!
tbh the dominion would appear a lot less threatening if this was in the fray
The Commander is forgetting that trying to destroy fleet after fleet after fleet will put a strain on the resources of the ship and you run the risk of a crafty opponent destroying your ship by ejecting a warp core on to it or ramming it and then self destructing or even multiple rammings to stop you.
The image of it on Star Trek online is while its deploying its Thaloron Pulse, the wings close after that, and there are multiple variants
i do want to point out that the vengeance while it is star fleet, i falls under section 31. it was designed for the war with the Klingon's that Admiral Marcus wanted
Actually RE : final weapons. Even the Wave Motion canon from Yamato had to charge, and it was powered by the Wave Motion Engine ! I don't think you can charge a large weapon like that even hooked up to the main drive. Another EX is the Ent D deflector dish cannon, still had to charge.
On closer inspection this thing actually looks like a hugely upscaled one man fighter. A rather smallish one at that. Just look at that hull shape. It could easily be an incarnation of the Bat Wing.
ilejovcevski79 , that has always been my main complaint. It looks like a one man fighter. It just isn't a good design for something that is supposed to be so large. Nothing on the ship makes it look as large as we are being told. More window lights would have helped to sell its size. As is, I can totally see the top half opening to reveal a cockpit, lol!
LOL, my thinking exactly!
Affiliation:
Reman, Romulan Star Empire
Type:
Warbird
Active:
2379 (destroyed)
Length:
890 meters
Beam:
1,350 meters
Speed:
At least warp 9.7
Armament:
52 pulse disruptor cannons;
27 photon torpedo launchers;
thalaron cascading biogenic pulse weapon
Defenses:
Primary and secondary shields;
highly advanced cloaking device
5:00 The thing I would say that this ship has got over the USS Vengeance is that it actually needs a crew of more than one person to operate. It has got fighters to justify its size and the Vengeance had neither of those things.
14:51 The battle in “Star Trek: First Contact” had been going on for a much longer time. The Borg Cube destroyed a plethora of ships before arriving at Earth.
I don't know, I think that a fleet of Defiant/Prometheus-class ships could have defeated the Scimitar. The tactics to find cloaked vessels invisible to sensors were known to Starfleet personnel back in Kirk's days.
Didn't Geordi say the Scimitar cloak was perfect and they weren't giving off any emmisions etc?
Well, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't hitting a cloaked vessel temporarily disrupt its cloak?
Yeah, that's why they were blindly firing all phasers and torpedoes in the hopes that they would land a hit.
Exactly. 8-)
"Mr. Worf, prepare a full phaser spread, zero elevation, all banks on my mark. Scan for shield impacts, stand-by photon torpedoes." Probably about the only thing I liked about the whole movie.
I would say that it having the fighters on it would make it kind of an aircraft carrier. this could explain the size. Carriers are the biggest ships that we have in todays Navy, so it would stand to reason that would carry over. What do you think?
Have to admit I agree with the Commander on Shinzon's tactics being at best dunderheaded and at worst outright stupid in terms of attacking Earth. Making the scimitar a torpedo boat on steroids makes more sense than just having a big flashy "Kill everything... in five minutes." gun, add to the fact she was a serious threat just as a carrier then attacking the fleets makes much more sense than Shinzon just wanting to show off his toy. Plus the fact that he wanted to randomly nuke Earth is what caused Donatra to turn on him and show up with the two Valdore-class warbirds (ok so they were about as much use as a tribble on a diet but point still stands) so if Shinzon had just been sensible, told Picard "By the way, I'm dying and need your blood to survive." (which was pretty much what happened to Sarek and Spock in Journey to Babel so we know it's possible to perform a hefty blood transfusion and for all we know Beverly has a ridiculously massive supply of replicated blood on hand so it's not like anybody at any point couldn't have just suggested this. If Shinzon had just not bothered with the whole "Nuke Earth" plan then he would have probably done quite well for himself
and I just realised that I spent five minutes typing up an analysis of a plot hole you could fly a Borg Cube through in Star Trek: Nemesis... Oh well, basically Shinzon is an idiot and Commander Cockings is right about making the Simmy a Torpedo Boat the size of Lake Michigan.
I agree with the captain, the longer you use something in battle, the chance of a weakness goes up. WWII has a great example with this the German magnetic mines, one was dropped to close to the shore off Great Britain and they carefully opened and learned how it worked.
I agree with the commander; destroying so many ships that the Federation can't even protect themselves makes them vulnerable. This doesn't just end with the Romulans, but everyone who might have a grudge against them, including the borg, Species 8472, and maybe some other species who might want a piece of the action, like some small Klingon house or something. If i had the scimitar, i would have taken no chances and taken out the fleets first, and then flip a coin over whether or not i would destroy the core planets. After all, i wouldn't want an uprising to happen :)
I agree to a point. However, I think Andor , Vulcan and Kling can mount a defense, but not Telerite, Bolians or Gorn . I think the Breen, Tholians, could hold their own but are likely remain neutral. We have not yet seen anything like a Star Trek version of Cap America Civil War or Infinity War. That's something I would like to see.
the real downfall of this ship is logistics after a couple of battles it would need repairs and rearming at which point the federation the Klingons and the turned Romulans could mobilize to end this threat, they would likely work together since the threat it posed and the effectiveness their alliance was against the dominion who . the thaleron weapon is one hit wonder it could only be used once as surprise attack, after this the ship would become a sitting duck if it tried to use it again.
this ship even though it could destroy hundreds of ships wouldn't be effective against the whole federation and its allies, a federation reeling after borg and dominion invasions and making sure they aren' caught off guard again the federation lost thousands of ships to those conflicts and it didn't break.
lastly, even if the Scimitar destroyed earth all it would do is piss the federation off yes billions would die the federation would lose countless dignitaries and admirals but its a federation of planets a coalition of races that strengthen each other they could relocate to Vulcan or vega or any of the 180-190 member planets or colonies, if shinzons plan had worked it would be 2 destroyed planets billions dead and 2 of the most powerful states in alpha and beta quadrants wanting him dead, if anything his actions would've caused a newfound friendship between the federation and Romulan empire united by a most terrible tragedy.
I actually think the thaeleron cannon was a better alternative, albeit not a great one, but better than attacking Starfleet. Starfleet is just coming off a war with the Klingons, a borg incursion, and the dominion war. They are mobilized, they have ships like the defiant, akira, and Prometheus. It is a much more militarized Starfleet, not to mention their Klingon allies or the rest of the romulan empire (heck even what’s left of the Cardassians as well, since the switched sides at the end of the war.) I mean in the last 10 years, Starfleet faced, in pretty rapid succession, the Borg AND the Dominion and won, so I doubt Starfleet would take shit from a bunch of rejected romulan slaves lead by a petulant, reckless, and foolhardy Clone.
That being said, I still would have loved to see the scimitar deal with the rest of starfleet’s task force, because I imagine the battle would have been glorious and probably would have been yet another wake up call for Starfleet that they are in fact a military.
Anyway, I’m kinda surprised you guys like this ship (USS vengeance considering, although I actually like the vengeance), always a great time hearing you guys theorize, and analyze, gives me an excuse to nerd out on some awesome ships. I would love to see your impressions on the executor class super star destroyer, or the eclipse class SSD, actually, any massive dreadnought from the Star Wars universe (there are more than you think). Keep up the great work guys
Commander Cockings: "Attack pattern Cockings theta!!!"
Far as the 'Doomsday' argument it isn't too far out of reach consider 'The Uniform' DS9 episode, Sisko launches 2 torpedoes with Trilithium attached to make a planet not inhabitable for 50 yrs from the Defiant. (I think its still OD... It's like playing some RPG and your friend wants to be a Fighter-Mage-Ninja-Wizard...)
The primary weapon was the Thealaron Emmitter. Everthing else, including the fighters and all the phase / disruptor banks was meant to protect the ship while it engaged its primary weapon.
I agree with u Samuel about destroying all the ships
1 battleship, no matter how powerful can never take on an entire fleet of smaller less powerfull ships. I agree with the captain on this one.
I think the commander has a Klingon style of war....I like it.
laugh at the charging time if you want but the scimitar was literally just rammed by the Enterprise, so i think that cause real problems w/ power. the bridge officer said the disruptiors as all of them were off line so ya. cut them some slack. plus i'm pretty sure it was supposed to fire the thaleron pulse while cloaked. this time it's cloak was also offline.
This was the first Star Trek "we have no way of beating this ship one on one" big bad enemy ship as well as a "Death Star." Then JJ really had to bang on that same drum twice with the Narada and the Vengeance.
Nice vid guys havent watched yet but they always are!
loved this ship mainly because its pure power, it is a ship that has two shield grids and ablative style armor it was such a jump since it can fire and maintain shields while cloaked the enterprise E one of if not the most advanced federation ship with a very experienced crew aided by 2 of the latest Romulan warbirds did only 30% damage to its primary shields and that was with the scimitar going easy on them.
i think it's an awesome ship, that many races including the borg would struggle with, but it's not invincible the tactics would eventually be discerned and a large enough fleet would damage it and tech could be used against it eg the tholians could just create a web around their installations or a variation of the dominion detection method.
the real downfall of this ship is logistics after a couple of battles it would need repairs and rearming at which point the federation the Klingons and the turned Romulans could mobilize to end this threat, they would likely work together since the threat it posed and the effectiveness their alliance was against the dominion who . the thaleron weapon is one hit wonder it could only be used once as surprise attack, after this the ship would become a sitting duck if it tried to use it again.
this ship even though it could destroy hundreds of ships wouldn't be effective against the whole federation and its allies, a federation reeling after borg and dominion invasions and making sure they aren' caught off guard again the federation lost thousands of ships and it didn't break.
lastly, even if the Scimitar destroyed earth all it would do is piss the federation off yes billions would die the federation would lose countless dignitaries and admirals but its a federation of planets a coalition of races that strengthen each other they could relocate to Vulcan or vega or any of the 180-190 member planets or colonies, if shinzons plan had worked it would be 2 destroyed planets billions dead and 2 of the most powerful states in alpha and beta quadrants wanting him dead, if anything his actions would've caused a newfound friendship between the federation and Romulan empire united by a most terrible tragedy.
To be honest, that's something i would've liked to see in the new show, maybe set in the 2390s or 2400s maybe the Romulans taking of joining the UFP after its stars and planets destruction (there's theories that the prime timeline exists alongside the jj verse) and according to star trek wiki the Klingons empire joined the UFP by at least by the 2550s also maybe talk of that as well, while trying to establish a peace with the breen and tholians while finding new races, but alas no we get another prequel.
I think they were planning on a new show set after nemesis with either star trek worf or federation but both idea's were shelved pity as those 2 would've been a much better setup for the time war, xindi, builders & adv rom drone ships then enterprise as it would've made more sense
yeah most fans know roughly what happened before TOS but they still make shows there, like the only post nemesis material which would be awesome cannon is star trek online with the iconians manipulating species 8472, and the Klingons to cause war ect sto is some of the best trek writing ive seen it captures the essence of trek
The Scimitar is the Reemans version of a dreadnought combined with a doomsday weapon. Still not very tactical to put all your eggs in one starship. Unless it has really great shields.
which it does.
after watching many at least of half of these is still comes out heavy opinion. I can understand the approach but formatting and lack in break in fact and opinion. a good visual cue like changing the HUD colors could help.
on the galaxy beam strip, why would large arcs of the strip light up when they fire a phaser if they are just a bunch of emitters lined around the hull.
it would make sense for the scimitar to take out the federation fleet using the thaleron radiation, the ship could (as they say in the movie) pass within 10 metres of their hull and the'd never know. so with the fleets being destroyed, starfleet wouldn't necessarily know how to defend against it but if the scimitar knocked out a large enough fleet, it could link up with the romulan fleet and mount an offensive on earth directly once the scimitar has taken out starbase 1. simply destroying earth wouldn't be enough to cripple the federation and to think it will is just human arrogance.
The Reman Scimitar- AKA the garbage scowl.
I'm sorry, I wanted to say, hauled away as garbage..........LOL.
I always thought the only thing that let Nemesis down was the final battle, why didn't Starfleet have the reinforcement fleet meet the Enterprise at a half way rendezvous point? The fleet and The E heading towards each other at maximum warp could have set up a cool multi ship battle, the two Romulans+a dozen Starfleet ships+The E could have allowed them to show how much of a bad ass the Schimitar was in theory setting up the final scenes and Datas sacrifice better.
Plus you could cameo in Janeway on Voyager or Kira on Defiant leading the reinforcement fleet for some fan service.
I had trouble connecting the space battle with what was happening on the planet. Felt like 2 separate incomplete movies rather then one.
My final thoughts. I think a dreadnought with lots of mega phasers and and a dozen torpedo launchers is more threatening than any Thaleron weapon.
So in theory could the Galaxy Class fire every emitter at the same time & send out a huge ring of phaser fire?
Theory? It was done in BofBW and in other episodes as well.
I don't mean every phaser bank, I mean every individual emitter in each phaser bank. Stuart said at 9:52 that the main bank on the Galaxy has over 200 emitters for example.
All of them? No. Even if it could be done without overloading the system the resulting beam would be so weak it'd be useless. The EPS system can only feed so much plasma into the array which is then directed toward the prefire chambers of the emitters that will fire. Multiple segments are included in a normal firing sequence, with the speed and order at which they're fired affecting things like beam thickness and shape, but not all of them at once.
@ Moro of Ork - yes, it did BofBw, when it created the antimatter shower to conceal the shuttlecraft worf and riker used to rescue picard ! be it a defensive screen not actually to create damage, but it made for a spetacular light show.
Mark Plott The anti-matter spread was one of those things that never made sense to me tech-wise. How exactly did they get the phaser emitters to fire antimatter? Assuming there's an antimatter equivalent of a nadion (antinadion?) how's it generated? Or did they suddenly convert the phasers into disruptors? Or even worse... if you have read Peter David's Vendetta (and if you haven't, you should, it's awesome) Anti-Matter Spread was used as a powerful offensive weapon (which it isn't, as you say- it's a light show).
53 torpedo tubes....not "S3"
Reminds me of the shadow ships from B5.
You are thinking with the modern wsr theory mindset. The problem is the Romulins adopt a Roman mindset. Where home planet us central to not only military, but society. Rome the city is equal to god.
As for the time to charge up the big doomsday weapon, I think NORMALLY they would have charged it up while still cloaked. The only reason they didn't in the movie is they couldn't at that point.
Here's my take on the Scimitar (entirely made up)...
Built in a secret shipyard by his Reman henchmen (likely based on Romulan design concepts) while he himself kept making a name for himself in his battles for the Romulan Empire in the Dominion War, this was Picard-clone Shinzon's big weapon (it really is one, actually, but more of that later) and flagship to take over the Romulan Empire and then fullfill what he deemed his destiny - annihilate Earth's population and conquer the UFP.
This very large prototype and completey new design made use of an experimental Thalaron core, which was basically a usual Romulan quantum singularity core (as used on most Romulan spacecraft) powering a thalaron field generation matrix, which in turn allowed for increasing the singularity’s size for a much larger, yet perfectly stable singularity that enabled the ship to harness enormous amounts of energy. So enormous infact, that the ship was capable of being equipped with
- a ludicrous amount of weapons (standard Romulan plasma torpedoes and pulse disruptors, but MANY of them), by far outgunning everything UFP and Klingon Empire had ever fielded before
- an entire secondary shield grid, resulting in both grids combined generating field strengths well above anything the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers have ever produced
- a cloaking system with a number of field emitters unheard of in known space (which not only hid the ship itself perfectly, but even any sort of energy radiation including weapons fire and the thalaron field) which allowed the ship to fire its weapons, keep its shields up AND reach maximum warp speed while being cloaked and entirely without disrupting the cloak’s quality
- a plasma-based warp propulsion system designed to withstand and fully use the thalaron core’s absurd power delivery, allowing the protoype to catch up to the already blisteringly fast Sovereign class USS Enterprise-E at maximum warp in short time.
The downside to this approach was that it heavily relied on the design's superiority in combat, or to be more precise: Its ability to keep the thalaron core running. The impulse reactors of the design, while being numerous and powerful enough to grant the Scimitar a fairly high impulse speed and manoeuverability for its intimidating size, were on their own simply not nearly powerful enough to sustain the dual-shielding, the cloaking AND the heavy weaponry all at once. Should the Thalaron core take damage and shut down, the secondary shield grid and advanced cloaking were disabled and only a certain number of disruptors could stay powered simultaneously, which reduced the Scimitar's combat capabilities to a degree where the ship would have serious trouble facing any Sovereign- or Negh'var class cruiser. But the Thalaron core was quite robust and well guarded by the enormously powerful ship around it. Until the time of its destruction, the Scimitar in proper fighting condition couldn't be stopped by anything short of a Dominion battleship or a Borg cube.
Yet all this pulverizing performance was a mere side-effect to the Scimitar’s intended use. Thalaron radiation was banned from use among the known galactic powers due to its biogenic properties, being able to completely destroy organic matter with ease on a large scale. So in the end, despite the vast hangar spaces, despite the scientific and medical facilites on board, this was the one final purpose of the Scimitar - an enormous, thalaron-based weapon. The ship could „open its wings“ to bring the emitter grid into position, to then launch a huge burst of thalaron particles onto its target. The level of radiation the thalaron core on the Scimitar was generating was enough to enclose an entire planet in a destructive radiation field. The very target was: Earth.
The plan however failed, the prototype was destroyed. Because the entire ship was designed around its nature as a warship and large Thalaron generator, it was fairly useless without its (forbidden) Thalaron core - no conventional power source could support the insane weaponry and its unbelievably fast warp drive. Thus, the design was scrapped - and most likely no other ship of this type will ever be constructed.
I would love to see a Starfleet version of the Scimitar, basically an Overpowered super war ship. 24th/25 Century Prime ship, not Jar Jar USS Vengeance...
Vengeance is basically the federation scimitar equivalent both in its design somewhat and weapons, but I understand your point.
@@USAgent-gk8es not to mention highly advanced in terms of technology.
I don't think it's ever established that it couldn't use its deathray while cloaked, is it? So the ten minute countdown might not be such a drawback if the target doesn't know you're there.
anyone else notice the typo?
Schnick where?
Samuel mentioned the sovereign being 620m? It's actually 680m........
-52 disrupters works out to be 8 or 9 disrupters in all 6 arcs.
In fact when the brown Norexean was taken out Scimitar INDEED first 8 or 9 shots at once.
-In the original draft of Nemesis Star Fleet was supposed to have a larger fight with Scimitar including Task Force Omega ships. The script was chopped down...likely after visual had been completed. Visually the VFX DO INDEED show a difference between Scimitar torpedoes and Scimitar Disrupters but the script calls out "All disrupters, FIRE." in at least two occasions
Evidence Here (with Pictures)
www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,7941.40.html.
The are the best for romulans in STO. Try them out.
The Connie Dreadnought is Rad, but the scimitar not so much.
Mark Plott , God I detest people calling it "Connie". Is is REALLY that hard to say Constitution Class?
I am semi-proud to be in the small but distinct group of people that kinda liked Nemesis. Wasn't perfect but it wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. (Well, the desert buggy sequence was.) Biggest problem with it was that the director cut' out all the character scenes. I highly recommend watching the deleted scenes; they're quite good. I wish there was a... ah... help me out here, what's the opposite of a director's cut?
Fans cut?
Perfect!
I agree, those scenes need to be made canon in order to allow for Data and Picard's character arcs to truly shine.
I particularly lamment the cutting of the Picard/Data-scene directly after the wedding and the one in the bar (whatever the Enterprise E's version of Ten Forward was; i think the books call it the Happy Bottom Riding Club).
Same here. and much better than JJ's crap
no dislikers as yet. wheres the haters?
They are still cloaked.
"Disliking" something isn't hating. In fact it helps the channel out. RUclips operates on a flagging-system; every interaction with a video (watching it, commenting on it, Like and, yes, Dislike, Sharing etc) adds another flag; the more flags it has the more likely it is to come up in a search for one of it's tags. In short: every bit helps the content producer, including Dislikes.
Narada-prototype anyone???